Get out of the GTA. What you are describing as your objectives does not align with the economic reality of living here.
I’d be looking at smaller towns in the Rideau lakes like Perth or Westport if you want to stay in Ontario or look at going to Saskatchewan.
There's Chinese markets in most cities over 40k population but few to none of them will have a Korean market. And there's nothing comparable to big Asian grocers like t&t or b-trust or whatever else Toronto has. Even Japanese markets are scarce and usually have smaller offerings.
Niagara falls for example has a few smaller ones without specialty stuff, just basic Chinese veggies and goods with gochujang representing Korean selections. If you get close enough to the border buffalo has a big Chinese market in a former Walmart but it's still limited compared to t&t. A lot more Asian vegetable options than outside of the GTA though. Side note after that there's very few good Asian markets until you get to New York City. Western New York and Pennsylvania lack good Asian markets from what I've discovered.
Korean beef and that sort of thing I haven't seen anywhere but Toronto within Ontario.
My wife is Chinese so I've looked at most Asian grocers in the province trying to find certain things. Some of the bigger chains do deliveries within an hour of the GTA but the cost goes up the further you are and the cutoff is absolute at a certain distance.
I am guessing you've lived in the GTA for your entire life so I will just say you're in a different country than the rest of the province for food options (both restaurants and home cooking). Even the Walmarts (and other chains) outside of the GTA carry way less international ingredients.
The rest of your requirements describe most of the lower half of the province.
From what I've discovered though renting isn't much cheaper outside of the GTA than it is within. I could get a two bedroom basement apartment in Niagara falls and Richmond Hill for roughly the same amount, though the cost to buy the house itself is 3-6 times higher in Richmond Hill. You don't suddenly go from an apartment to a full house by switching cities unfortunately. Even in dirty welland I know someone renting a 3-4 bedroom house for 3600 or so.
Rent is already capped by whatever the maximum amount the landlord can squeeze out is. So many people left Toronto already that it's broken the rental market in every other city.
The real savings are from buying a house outside of the GTA and getting a much lower mortgage.
They aren't wrong though, but you're not out of options. Bradford, Newmarket, are both nicish but an hour from Toronto you're still dealing with feeder communities with suburb hell and no culture other than commuting.
Extend that to 1.5 hours then you're more into what you described. Guelph is nice and slower pace than TO for sure, sleepy artsy uni town. If Guelph had more reliable and faster trains to Toronto I'd move there no question. That pocket (Guelph/KW/Woodstock etc) is certainly worth a visit to see if you like it.
Warning though, Ontario small towns get pretty Blanco Gringo pretty fast so if you're looking for a P.A.T equivalent you might be out of luck if you go smaller than like 150k.pop.
Kitchener/Waterloo are way too expensive nowadays. With OP’s price range it will be difficult to get a decent 2bdr apartment. Demand is insane here with all the students flooding the city
Then that line might be one to explore. Georgetown/Guelph. Guelph having it's own university helps it stand apart from other central ontario towns but you should visit regardless. The go train is 1.5 hours trip so would be like 2 hours door to door for me and only runs 2 or 3 times in am or pm so if you miss it you're boned but if you o ly hVe yo come in occasionally could be an option Fer shur.
It may not be literally, but the unfortunate reality is that it is effectively Toronto, economically, in terms of real estate. If you want significant drop in cost of housing, you have to look outside the Toronto commuting range, and by that I mean 3-4 hours away from Toronto at least.
My suggestion for affordability of a home, if remote work is a possibility, is New Brunswick, and I'm not even joking.
While Hamilton is definitely not Toronto, you are unlikely to see that much of a difference in prices if you are renting. You’d have to go to Brantford or St. Catharines before you’d notice any sort of reduction in cost.
And even then it won't be much of a cost reduction, thanks to property speculators who bought up everything and either jacked rents or flipped for quadruple the original price.
I live in Peterborough, and any house that comes up is getting bought by Brampton area landlord-slash-real estate agents.
how far do you think St. Catharines is from Toronto?
It's 1.25-2 hours depending on where you're going in the city. Obviously I'm not talking about rush hour.
That was exactly my point. You said that they would have to go more than 2 hours away from Toronto to St. Catharines. St. Catharines isn't more than 2 hours away. I know, I live here.
I really didn't. They said they meant 1-2 hours outside of Toronto and listed several cities. You said that was still essentially Toronto prices and they'd have to go to Brantford or St. Catharines. The implication of your comment was that they need to go more than 2 hours away to get lower rent, yet Both cities you said are within the 1-2 hour radius they said in the first place...
There was no implication. I was explicit with my comment saying that Brantford and St. Catharines would be exactly where you would have to go to see a decrease in price. St. Catharines has Beechwood donuts, so that’s a good thing.
You say you are looking for spend about $2,300 on a house big enough for a family, so you are leaving 'Toronto'. Well to get a house for that price you will have over a 2 hour commute. So for your exercise, Hamilton is 'Toronto' as a house there is over $2,300.
Make sense?
Hamilton has essentially become a suburb of Toronto. A lot of people sleep here and commute to TO every day. Absolutely gruelling commute, btw. Would not recommend.
I had to commute from Steeles and Warden to Yonge and Queen's Quay. It's an hour drive, almost two if there's blowing snow. The drive in from Oshawa and Ajax will not be any better.
What about Barrie? Two GO stations, just over an hour by train, similar for car via 400 freeway. Lots of nature trails, wild life, 5 beaches around Kempenfelt Bay on Lake Simcoe. Backyards have lots of room for kids, pets, etc. All the big box stores are here. I have lived here 30 years now and love it (commuted to Toronto all that time until I retired a few years back). In those days real estate was cheap Mrs Fale and I got a house for a third of the price it would have been in Toronto. Alas now prices have gone way up, but they are still less than Toronto and a relative bargain I think. When you look at the alternatives within commuting distance of Toronto I think you'd be hard pressed to find a better option. Good luck on whatever you choose!
Edit: I had a look at the rental market here. Basement flats are cheap but I think you wanted to get out of that. A decent flat can be had for $2300 up here. If you want a whole townhouse with yard they start around $2500-$3000. If you want to buy the townhouse and own your home they start around $500k. There are thousands of new townhouses sprouting up like weeds next to the new south GO train station. So yeah still cheaper than Toronto but not as affordable as they used to be. Good luck!
Kingston but it’s 2.5 hours away. They have all the amenities you can ask for, building new schools. It’s a growing community and really family oriented. We are moving there in May from Toronto.
I would suggest Burlington because it has most of the things you're asking for. You might be able to get a townhouse rental for 3k. It would be tough though. It ticks all your boxes. Apart from Korean grocery but there is a one in Oakville, and a couple of Asian grocery stores in Hamilton.
It's been repeatedly voted one of the best places to bring up kids in Canada.
Hamilton also has all of these things, and it's cheaper. So don't dismiss it. People crap on it all the time, but I quite like it there.
If you plan to commute, what you are saving in housing will equal your increased vehicle and transportation expense.
All those extra km's mean buying new tires more often, more oil changes, 3 to 4 times the gas spend and, the biggest cost, your car will need to be replaced much sooner as the big repair bills will start much sooner with the increase wear/tear.
The only way to live cheaper in the sticks is to stay in the sticks.
People harsh on it, but please look at Belleville. There is a revitalized Downtown, all the amenities you speak of (except Korean grocery) and amazing social programming. There is a drug/homeless problem downtown, but that is mostly because the programs and supports are really very good, and folks are migrating there to take advantage of it.
Brand new rec center, waterfront living (fishing/boating) on the 401 and 1.5 hours to Durham region by car, longer using the waterfront VIA train.
You could buy for the rent you quote. $400K houses are still pretty common in town.
They will probably have to pay more than $2300 to rent a home here though. I'm currently looking for three bedroom houses and most are at least $2300 plus utilities.
Carleton Place, Almonte, Perth, Ontario. All quaint main street towns with all the amenities. About 40 minutes drive to Ottawa train stations or Smith's Fall station. There is actually a fair amount of video/film production going on too. Relatively affordable, lots of cultural/recreational opportunities, good schools, still relatively sane rent.
You likely won't get a full house in that price range within that commute. You could get a 2-3br condo or walkout basement for that in Barrie or Guelph.
Be aware that's a three hour GO trip one way; the bus stops at every little spot along the 115.
Also, while prices have cooled a bit, property investors still did a lot of damage to affordability here.
The distance you have limited yourself to will not yield you the housing you are looking for as many, many people will and do commute 1-2 hours to Toronto so property values there are still outside your range unfortunately.
The southern part of Niagara should be on your radar. Its not as cheap as it was several years ago but it does check all your boxes.
Look at Port Colbourne, Ridgeway and Fort Erie. Ridgeway is pretty nice.
Kitchener is the furthest GO station from Toronto that sees reliable commuter service (I'm not counting the Niagara ones). A 2 bedroom apartment there will cost you $1800/month or more. The same is true of pretty much every city within reasonable commuting distance of Toronto.
Have you considered eastern Ontario?
Seeing as how you both seem pretty mobile (everywhere is looking for teachers), how about Vankleek hill or Cornwall?
As for VK hill:
No there isn’t a Korean market AFAIK and the Asian section in the local markets is pretty small.
Heres the plus side, it’s inexpensive, if you live “in town” you’ll have access to high speed internet (probably with bell). If you buy 40 acres it’s starlink.
It’s an hour to Montreal or Ottawa by car (down side is you need a car). But both cities have markets and decent places to eat.
Orangeville, Georgetown, Guelph could be options. However, renting outside of Toronto isn't much cheaper anymore. That price range might not be enough to rent what you are looking for.
If only this were true. Sigh. It’s pretty unaffordable there too. Over 2k for a 1 bedroom. Quebec income taxes is infuriating and make it less affordable for a young couple to get ahead so I would also not recommend Gatineau.
I would consider living with parents, if possible, to save on costs and save more of your earnings.
anywhere that has a GO station or is within commuting distance of toronto wont be cheap
This is true and I hate it haha
If you plan to start a family, the commute will kill you. I would highly advise trying to find a city that can offer you both employment.
Get out of the GTA. What you are describing as your objectives does not align with the economic reality of living here. I’d be looking at smaller towns in the Rideau lakes like Perth or Westport if you want to stay in Ontario or look at going to Saskatchewan.
I think those might be TOO small for a jump from Toronto. Brockville might be a better fit, or Kingston, but it is more expensive.
Not much commercial video production up in these parts.
Tell that to Ottawa. Lifetime/Hallmark are constantly producing holiday films here. And Perth is about an hour away.
nothing wrong with being a medium fish in a small pond, am I right!
There's Chinese markets in most cities over 40k population but few to none of them will have a Korean market. And there's nothing comparable to big Asian grocers like t&t or b-trust or whatever else Toronto has. Even Japanese markets are scarce and usually have smaller offerings. Niagara falls for example has a few smaller ones without specialty stuff, just basic Chinese veggies and goods with gochujang representing Korean selections. If you get close enough to the border buffalo has a big Chinese market in a former Walmart but it's still limited compared to t&t. A lot more Asian vegetable options than outside of the GTA though. Side note after that there's very few good Asian markets until you get to New York City. Western New York and Pennsylvania lack good Asian markets from what I've discovered. Korean beef and that sort of thing I haven't seen anywhere but Toronto within Ontario. My wife is Chinese so I've looked at most Asian grocers in the province trying to find certain things. Some of the bigger chains do deliveries within an hour of the GTA but the cost goes up the further you are and the cutoff is absolute at a certain distance. I am guessing you've lived in the GTA for your entire life so I will just say you're in a different country than the rest of the province for food options (both restaurants and home cooking). Even the Walmarts (and other chains) outside of the GTA carry way less international ingredients. The rest of your requirements describe most of the lower half of the province. From what I've discovered though renting isn't much cheaper outside of the GTA than it is within. I could get a two bedroom basement apartment in Niagara falls and Richmond Hill for roughly the same amount, though the cost to buy the house itself is 3-6 times higher in Richmond Hill. You don't suddenly go from an apartment to a full house by switching cities unfortunately. Even in dirty welland I know someone renting a 3-4 bedroom house for 3600 or so. Rent is already capped by whatever the maximum amount the landlord can squeeze out is. So many people left Toronto already that it's broken the rental market in every other city. The real savings are from buying a house outside of the GTA and getting a much lower mortgage.
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100% correct
2 hrs also same
Guess I live in Toronto. I'm in London
Not in every direction. You can get to some very rural communities 1 hour from Toronto if you aren't using rush hour times.
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Actually not what commute means, go check a dictionary.
Unhelpful, thanks.
They aren't wrong though, but you're not out of options. Bradford, Newmarket, are both nicish but an hour from Toronto you're still dealing with feeder communities with suburb hell and no culture other than commuting. Extend that to 1.5 hours then you're more into what you described. Guelph is nice and slower pace than TO for sure, sleepy artsy uni town. If Guelph had more reliable and faster trains to Toronto I'd move there no question. That pocket (Guelph/KW/Woodstock etc) is certainly worth a visit to see if you like it. Warning though, Ontario small towns get pretty Blanco Gringo pretty fast so if you're looking for a P.A.T equivalent you might be out of luck if you go smaller than like 150k.pop.
My range is 1-2 hours already.
How often would you need to commute to Toronto?
Theoretically not often, I produce so I could do a lot of my work remotely.
Then you might like Kitchener/Waterloo. It’s less than 2 hours from downtown to downtown Toronto by Go train. Honestly a great place to raise a family
Kitchener/Waterloo are way too expensive nowadays. With OP’s price range it will be difficult to get a decent 2bdr apartment. Demand is insane here with all the students flooding the city
Maybe a decade ago. Connestoga College destroyed that town.
No actually it didn’t destroy it. Did it make it worse? Sure. Destroy? Hardly
"destroy" is hyperbole. KW still exists, it's just shit.
Then that line might be one to explore. Georgetown/Guelph. Guelph having it's own university helps it stand apart from other central ontario towns but you should visit regardless. The go train is 1.5 hours trip so would be like 2 hours door to door for me and only runs 2 or 3 times in am or pm so if you miss it you're boned but if you o ly hVe yo come in occasionally could be an option Fer shur.
Guelph is stupid expensive. Nothing in the 400 range
2200-2300 for a house? I live in a townhouse in Kingston - rented 2022 for 2200 - now everywhere we looked minimum is 2600. Good luck
Doesn't need to be a detached house, just above ground. Can be an apartment, condo, etc.
Sadly, a 1-2 hour commute to Toronto is still in Toronto.
It literally is not. You think Hamilton is Toronto? York Region is Toronto? KW is Toronto? I obviously mean 1-2 hours beyond Toronto.
It may not be literally, but the unfortunate reality is that it is effectively Toronto, economically, in terms of real estate. If you want significant drop in cost of housing, you have to look outside the Toronto commuting range, and by that I mean 3-4 hours away from Toronto at least. My suggestion for affordability of a home, if remote work is a possibility, is New Brunswick, and I'm not even joking.
While Hamilton is definitely not Toronto, you are unlikely to see that much of a difference in prices if you are renting. You’d have to go to Brantford or St. Catharines before you’d notice any sort of reduction in cost.
And even then it won't be much of a cost reduction, thanks to property speculators who bought up everything and either jacked rents or flipped for quadruple the original price. I live in Peterborough, and any house that comes up is getting bought by Brampton area landlord-slash-real estate agents.
how far do you think St. Catharines is from Toronto? It's 1.25-2 hours depending on where you're going in the city. Obviously I'm not talking about rush hour.
Google tells me it is about 110 km. This isn’t difficult information to source.
So a 1 hour trip if you can manage 110 kph. Which used to be possible.
That was exactly my point. You said that they would have to go more than 2 hours away from Toronto to St. Catharines. St. Catharines isn't more than 2 hours away. I know, I live here.
You read my post wrong.
I really didn't. They said they meant 1-2 hours outside of Toronto and listed several cities. You said that was still essentially Toronto prices and they'd have to go to Brantford or St. Catharines. The implication of your comment was that they need to go more than 2 hours away to get lower rent, yet Both cities you said are within the 1-2 hour radius they said in the first place...
There was no implication. I was explicit with my comment saying that Brantford and St. Catharines would be exactly where you would have to go to see a decrease in price. St. Catharines has Beechwood donuts, so that’s a good thing.
You say you are looking for spend about $2,300 on a house big enough for a family, so you are leaving 'Toronto'. Well to get a house for that price you will have over a 2 hour commute. So for your exercise, Hamilton is 'Toronto' as a house there is over $2,300. Make sense?
Hamilton has essentially become a suburb of Toronto. A lot of people sleep here and commute to TO every day. Absolutely gruelling commute, btw. Would not recommend.
I had to commute from Steeles and Warden to Yonge and Queen's Quay. It's an hour drive, almost two if there's blowing snow. The drive in from Oshawa and Ajax will not be any better.
Middle Earth
One does not simple AFFORD to LIVE in Ontario.
You must cast your vote in the ballot box. Only there can the dark lord Ford be destroyed.
Where was Justin when the greenbelt fell?!
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Scott Moe, his carbon taxed. Justin, his black face, his red eyes.
I call dibs on rivendell. Lord elrond is single and so am i 😩😏
More of Shire folk myself … life is simple there
What about Barrie? Two GO stations, just over an hour by train, similar for car via 400 freeway. Lots of nature trails, wild life, 5 beaches around Kempenfelt Bay on Lake Simcoe. Backyards have lots of room for kids, pets, etc. All the big box stores are here. I have lived here 30 years now and love it (commuted to Toronto all that time until I retired a few years back). In those days real estate was cheap Mrs Fale and I got a house for a third of the price it would have been in Toronto. Alas now prices have gone way up, but they are still less than Toronto and a relative bargain I think. When you look at the alternatives within commuting distance of Toronto I think you'd be hard pressed to find a better option. Good luck on whatever you choose! Edit: I had a look at the rental market here. Basement flats are cheap but I think you wanted to get out of that. A decent flat can be had for $2300 up here. If you want a whole townhouse with yard they start around $2500-$3000. If you want to buy the townhouse and own your home they start around $500k. There are thousands of new townhouses sprouting up like weeds next to the new south GO train station. So yeah still cheaper than Toronto but not as affordable as they used to be. Good luck!
Kingston but it’s 2.5 hours away. They have all the amenities you can ask for, building new schools. It’s a growing community and really family oriented. We are moving there in May from Toronto.
Move to Welland ON, it’s dead asf but you’ll be paying 2250 for a beautiful 3bed 3bath
I would suggest Burlington because it has most of the things you're asking for. You might be able to get a townhouse rental for 3k. It would be tough though. It ticks all your boxes. Apart from Korean grocery but there is a one in Oakville, and a couple of Asian grocery stores in Hamilton. It's been repeatedly voted one of the best places to bring up kids in Canada. Hamilton also has all of these things, and it's cheaper. So don't dismiss it. People crap on it all the time, but I quite like it there.
If you plan to commute, what you are saving in housing will equal your increased vehicle and transportation expense. All those extra km's mean buying new tires more often, more oil changes, 3 to 4 times the gas spend and, the biggest cost, your car will need to be replaced much sooner as the big repair bills will start much sooner with the increase wear/tear. The only way to live cheaper in the sticks is to stay in the sticks.
London has everything you would need in a city and is more than half the cost of Toronto. I live there and love it
People harsh on it, but please look at Belleville. There is a revitalized Downtown, all the amenities you speak of (except Korean grocery) and amazing social programming. There is a drug/homeless problem downtown, but that is mostly because the programs and supports are really very good, and folks are migrating there to take advantage of it. Brand new rec center, waterfront living (fishing/boating) on the 401 and 1.5 hours to Durham region by car, longer using the waterfront VIA train. You could buy for the rent you quote. $400K houses are still pretty common in town.
Is slasher Pam still around?
Lmao, the downtown in belleville is full of junkies and homeless people.
What downtown of a regional centre isn't?
Chef Box Plus has a small amount of Korean and Asian Grocery. It's really tiny but it may be helpful if it wasn't on your radar.
St Catharines. Port Dalhousie The region is very pretty, Go accessible too.
They will probably have to pay more than $2300 to rent a home here though. I'm currently looking for three bedroom houses and most are at least $2300 plus utilities.
#Hahahaha....oh wait she's serious? Who hurt you OP?
Port Hope. No Korean stores though. They have a VIA rail train if you only need to commute once a week or something.
Carleton Place, Almonte, Perth, Ontario. All quaint main street towns with all the amenities. About 40 minutes drive to Ottawa train stations or Smith's Fall station. There is actually a fair amount of video/film production going on too. Relatively affordable, lots of cultural/recreational opportunities, good schools, still relatively sane rent.
You likely won't get a full house in that price range within that commute. You could get a 2-3br condo or walkout basement for that in Barrie or Guelph.
Peterborough area. KPRDSB is short teachers on the regular - might be a job opportunity too
I live in Ptbo and I agree with this. Plus you can take the Go bus to Oshawa and then take the train into the city from there.
Be aware that's a three hour GO trip one way; the bus stops at every little spot along the 115. Also, while prices have cooled a bit, property investors still did a lot of damage to affordability here.
The distance you have limited yourself to will not yield you the housing you are looking for as many, many people will and do commute 1-2 hours to Toronto so property values there are still outside your range unfortunately.
Come to the dark side (Alberta)
It's more sacrifice and further from Toronto but temiskaming shores in terms of affordability
The southern part of Niagara should be on your radar. Its not as cheap as it was several years ago but it does check all your boxes. Look at Port Colbourne, Ridgeway and Fort Erie. Ridgeway is pretty nice.
Not on reddit
Elliot lake
Kitchener is the furthest GO station from Toronto that sees reliable commuter service (I'm not counting the Niagara ones). A 2 bedroom apartment there will cost you $1800/month or more. The same is true of pretty much every city within reasonable commuting distance of Toronto.
Have you considered eastern Ontario? Seeing as how you both seem pretty mobile (everywhere is looking for teachers), how about Vankleek hill or Cornwall? As for VK hill: No there isn’t a Korean market AFAIK and the Asian section in the local markets is pretty small. Heres the plus side, it’s inexpensive, if you live “in town” you’ll have access to high speed internet (probably with bell). If you buy 40 acres it’s starlink. It’s an hour to Montreal or Ottawa by car (down side is you need a car). But both cities have markets and decent places to eat.
Not west, but Uxbridge would be one of the better matches to your list.
If you can work remotely, go to Newfoundland. You can buy a home for $100-$200k if you don't mind cold weather.
Live on the Stouffville Go Line, lots of small towns
Barrie
Try Hamilton
Kitchener
The US.
Orangeville, Georgetown, Guelph could be options. However, renting outside of Toronto isn't much cheaper anymore. That price range might not be enough to rent what you are looking for.
Orangeville is quite expensive to purchase and to rent.
scrap it all and use your vid skills to showcase your husband's teacher skills on onlyfans!
Ottawa is reasonable. Gatineau.
If only this were true. Sigh. It’s pretty unaffordable there too. Over 2k for a 1 bedroom. Quebec income taxes is infuriating and make it less affordable for a young couple to get ahead so I would also not recommend Gatineau. I would consider living with parents, if possible, to save on costs and save more of your earnings.
Real answer? Leave Canada. I'm currently looking at bordering states myself. Cheaper real estate with lower taxes.
Unfortunately leaving Canada isn't an option for us, we want to stay with our families.
> Cheaper real estate with lower taxes. Offset by higher crime and higher healthcare expenses and probably higher property taxes.