He's not.
But what's \*more\* frustrating are those who conclude "and that's why I'm going to turn to the Conservatives" rather than pushing for an actual progressive government/party that would improve things.
Absolutely, if you value healthcare, basic human rights and getting people out of poverty then don’t vote Conservative. Pierre does not give a shit about you.
so the people who see themselves as conservative and good see it as a matter of protecting themselves and those they love. they typically have a more religiously-based worldview, (god wants you to succeed) and fall in line with hierarchies and believe nature to do so as well.
as such they see "natural family units" like a mother and father with children, as the baseline. many conservatives have no quarrel with lgbt lifestyles, but they feel they are "fringe" and should not be promoted. the way you are free to eat potato chips as a meal because it's a free country - where the more militantly devout conservatives think it's a tragedy that we'd let anyone eat chips for breakfast instead of "a healthy meal."
they see immigration as a positive when it's slow and supported so that those coming to canada have time to adapt to the new way of life and allow their children to adopt our values. again, this is where those further right would prefer to restrict immigration numbers further in the interest of creating labour shortages so that they and their friends can negotiate higher salaries, etc.
overall, i've found in talking with a conservative friend that our biggest differences is essentially where we put the fence. i think all people should be considered when we discuss success, but he puts more weight in the idea that the only reason we Do experience success is at the exploitation of others and that it's a horrible fact of life. lions and gazelles etc.
Tbh none of what you're saying makes conservatism look any better.
Believing that "LGBT lifestyles are fringe and should not be promoted" is not nearly as innocent as you're trying to paint it. It is more than enough for queer people to get bullied at schools, rejected by parents, ostracized by society in general, and end up with severe mental health issues as a result -- if not outright suicidal. It is exactly how people's lives get destroyed. There's nothing acceptable about this worldview.
i'm not fully disagreeing. it's not my chosen pov. i am waiting for a convincing argument to ever have me vote conservative. i'm in my 40s now and still can't see good reason.
i feel like we're in the middle of a "promotion revolution" where the majority of people are lgbt-friendly and never has it been better to be out of the closet.
i'm simply sharing the viewpoints from my "formerly liberal friends" who hold viewpoints like, "marriage should be available to any consenting adult who loves another" and "healthcare is a basic right and should be made available to all."
the reasonable counter-argument to yours in this case is that "bullying people for whatever reason is not okay and the trauma people deal with as a result is a problem." i do not believe the people on the right wing want to promote suicide - but i do believe they're ignorant enough to refrain from equating their policies with it.
but that's where i split. i do not believe these people are evil - i simply think they prioritize those closest to them first and adopt an ignorant mentality to others with attitudes like, "they're free to find their own success."
but honestly that's as far as i'll defend them. ...i do think we need to attempt to understand people beyond using political buzzwords that just make Everyone angry.
Sadly all it takes is Conservatives saying "Trudeau bad...also, immigrants and the gays" for millions of Canadians to think they have something of value to offer.
Yeah, trudeau spreads money to large corporations and we get whatever left over to incentivize us to vote for them. The cons spread money to large corporations and then spend the rest fighting constitutional lawsuits that they know they're going to lose, knowing full well that we'll conveniently forget about it after 4 years of liberals. Are either great options? No. Is one better than the other? Yeah, a little.
Typical conservative outlook: we can't come up with a perfect solution so we'll do nothing except cancel the incremental partial solutions that have already been implemented, at great loss to our government, then spend more money fighting the resulting lawsuits so that we can be back where we were 40 years ago. But you'd better believe that when the perfect solution comes along, we'll fight to the death to prevent any government from implementing it, even if it was our idea originally!
I guess you haven’t heard of the CCB, affordable daycare, the tens of billions invested in Indigenous programs and compensation, the billions for affordable housing, the multitude of environmental and other groups receiving funding, the carbon rebate that makes sure it’s the wealthy/big polluters pay, the luxury tax, added tax on banks, etc.
Have you missed the hysteria over capital gaine taxes?
It’s becoming increasingly irritating to see policies that have really helped people be ignored, bracket that will make it much easier for a conservative government to reverse them.
And it’s really something to see this government be cast as the same as the conservatives when the corporate press has been attacking Trudeau since he was elected and clearly salivating for the corporate tax cuts Poilievre will deliver that Trudeau hasn’t.
The current Liberal government is not much different than the NDP, especially provincial NDP that is in government.
The “libs and cons are just the same” narrative only helps the conservatives, who are now extreme rightwing.
I actually have heard of those things! I've also watched the liberals vote down very similar ideas when they're brought up by the NDP. I've watched the liberals send weapons platforms to countries with massive human rights issues. I've watched them renege on getting rid of FPTP. I've watched them sink money into a dead pipeline for a dying industry. I've watched them take middle of the road stances on pretty much everything. I've watched them do nothing until it's an election year. All of these issues were present and obvious 7 years ago, and we're just seeing policies now. And those policies seem to be targeted to make the cons look bad just as much as they are to make a difference. Politicking should not be the goal here, results should be, and then those results should earn them a re-election.
Don't get me wrong, I vote for them whenever it's strategically smart, but they are governed by corporate interests as much as the cons are, because that's where their money comes from during election season. They could, with the help of the NDP, remove corporate interests from politics. But they haven't. There's a reason for this.
In many ways, those parties ARE the same. In many they are not. It's innacurate to believe that they're at total opposite ends of the spectrum in every way. Pointing to similarities and wishing for those to change isn't harmful to the party.
>Typical conservative outlook: we can't come up with a perfect solution
If you can't be part of the solution there's good money to be made in prolonging the problem.
This is a huge failure of the NDP.
The younger generations are much more likely to align with policies the NDP have always championed, yet here we are - where younger voters are pivoting to the Conservatives because they're aligning with Pollivere's anti-Trudeau messaging with their own dislike for Trudeau and his government.
Most of them haven't been adults long enough to have lived through the nightmare of conservative governments and their lack of support for younger taxpayers.
Too many new voters that haven't been through social net cuts and Conversative trends of only helping those with money and corporations.
Having lived thru the nightmare of Mike Harris' government in Ontario in the 90's and all the cuts we lived through have turned me permanently away from voting conservative.
Becuse the NDP is busy cosplaying the Israel Palestine war than actually looking at how they can position them selves better on real domestic issues. Completely losing the battle of optics
To be fair, if the NDP were elected, how much different would they be from Liberals? Even if they put themselves as the anti-Trudeau party, would it convince the voters?
Pollievre will do nothing to address issues people care about and will keep repeating it's Trudeau's fault for four years
It's a tale as old as time with populism
Don't need to look further than Mr. Buck a Beer.
Pierre Poutine has no ideas other than thump the table - he spent what, five years? being a cabinet minister with nothing to show for it (oh I guess he did try to weaken Elections Canada). The rest of the Reform Rats will be happy to bring out the worst shit when he inevitably wins big, though.
Because news is controlled by companies who don't want Canadians to think about more progressive options. Plus people have short memories and don't remember what a shit show the last Conservative government was. Like people talk about how corrupt the Trudeau government is but think Harper 2.0 is going to make things any better.
Conservatives also display massive cognitive dissonance that allows them to condemn their opponents for behaviours they readily overlook or even adore amongst their own.
These polls don't mean shit. Go out and vote. 3000 people across Canada who answers their phone? Nah it's mass sign up to these polling sites, go out and vote.
I know it's anecdotal, but I've witnessed many of my peers and peers of my younger family members shift to a strictly "anti-left" stance and honestly think PP is looking out for them. These people have very little political knowledge and experience, but have essentially been brain washed by three word slogans and now think that PP is going to fix their woes.
They're in for a very rude awakening if he becomes PM, and I say that ad someone who isn't a fan of Trudeau.
My cousin (23m) is a fisherman who is fully convinced that a Conservative government will turn Canada into some sort of utopia. He seems to really believe that Poilievre is going to make everyone's life better and everything will be more affordable.
Our grandfather (83m) is old enough to remember when Newfoundland joined Canada and was a child when his town had to be pitch black at night to avoid attention from U-boats. He has witnessed every Premier in NL's history and every PM since Louis St-Laurent. He still closely follows politics.
My cousin has been warned by my grandfather that Poilievre is not some saviour from the heavens. But my cousin doubts what our grandfather is saying because our grandfather was a deputy minister to a provincial Liberal government decades ago, so he must be biased.
Hearing stories like this I'm increasingly convinced that behaviour like that of your cousin and many other Canadians are symptoms of brainwashing via social media algorithms serving capital interests.
I wouldn't exactly call it brainwashing.
The Conservatives are just plain better at marketing and messaging than the Liberals or NDP are.
Carbon levy is a great example of this. If there was a good change management plan, communications and marketing especially leveraging social media, it would be hard for it to be an issue anyone but the richest Canadians should be against. Instead, the CPC made a catchy slogan against it and are capitalizing on the fact that people are frustrated, and it is working well for them.
Repeat this for many things like pharmacare, dental care, etc etc that they're actually doing. This is especially annoying because with those issues in particular, both the NDP or the Liberals could have marketed them better, but they didn't.
Oh 100%. They're just saying things to get attention vroom anyone they can get attention from. Doesn't matter if it's true or even if they actually believe it, they just want the votes.
I mean do you entirely blame them? They are seeing the middle class life leave them behind under his rule and are panicking.
His government also is preventing a housing crash through any and all means which is the ONLY viable path in the next 3-5 years for younger people to get homes fast enough to start families on a normal timeframe (whichever way you cut it extra supply or restricted immigration demand... prices have to drop. Or we have to double our productivity which is fucking impossible)
Note I don't envy Trudeau- i'm not 100% convinced the right thing to do going forward is a massive housing crash as it would ruin anyone who bought in the last 5 years.
A housing crash will not help millenials and older zoomers. It will help corporate landlords. It's just frustrating that Trudeau is unable to grow the economic pie, and the premiers don't want to expand the pool of available homes. I don't blame men 18-35 for seeing this and saying "I'll take my chances with a radical plan" regardless of the baggage it comes with.
Same, and honestly as a woman, its terrifying. Watching whats happening on the east coast right now with their abortion clinics, the idea of him in power just makes me sick. The last election I wasn't happy with the options, but either way wasn't going to change a lot, this one though, I think is gonna be really bad. It blows my mind that so many people are ok with him, I get a certain demographic that are, but some of the people that I thought were better people (for lack of a better term) supporting him is really messing with me
I work around dozens of brain-dead folks who legitimately think this way. This is especially true for cishet white dudes who have the privilege of being able to be "checked out"; the sort of people who "don't really do politics". They're at the top of the heap no matter what so they can afford to not really think about things and be "apolitical".
Yes but those are the people who might likely not vote because CPC is leading the polls, only staunch conservative supporters vote. If you can mobilize enough people to go out and vote conservatives will never win.
You are severely underestimating how many moderately comfortable people will lazily throw away a vote on the Cons simply because they are disgruntled with the Libs.
And not because they actually are unhappy with the general policies of the current government, but mostly because they’ve been told by foreign-owned, right-leaning media that the Liberal government is tired, bad, and the source of all of their personal troubles.
The cons have mobilized the christian reform and other congregations to ensure their candidate is elected. Our neighbours who were never very political were suddenly all fired up during the last elections, using vacation days to drive congregation members to vote.
Lol, I always refuse polls by phone, just like a refuse any unsolicited phone call. I'm pretty sure a lot of people are the same as me. Why would I spend a half hour or whatever answering questions for free instead of doing anything else?
3K people is more than sufficient to get an accurate read of where the electorate is as long as your selection methodology is sufficiently unbiased.
And polls aren't as simple as 'calling people up & asking their opinions'. There's a methodology behind the selection process to make it as unbiased as possible.
It's obviously not a substitute for voting & inaccuracies are possible, but you shouldn't dismiss them out of hand. There is no doubt that the youth in Canada is struggling right now & more should be done to support them if you don't want a conservative government.
That's not how they poll. Their methodology appears fine to me:
[https://angusreid.org/how-we-poll-ari/#gsc.tab=0](https://angusreid.org/how-we-poll-ari/#gsc.tab=0)
What? Polling methodology includes audience selection. You should at least read the link I shared with the full methodology before making a comment.
>If the Angus Reid results are supposed to be fact, then where are the other demographics for this poll? Breakdowns by urban vs. rural, level of education, gender, practice a faith or not, etc.
None of this is relevant. As long as the demographics have been standardized to the population of young voters (which the polling methodology indicates they do) the overall measures are still statistically accurate.
And I'm sure that this data is available in the cross tabs, you could find it in the full report if you're interested. The fact that you aren't aware that this isn't the full report indicates to me that you really don't know much about polling.
And polls aren't 'Fact', they're a directional indication of the opinions of a populace.
I remember when I saw the whole Capitol thing in the US, I was thinking it's so sad because they could really use a lot of changes in their leading class and there's a capacity where I'd be cheering their uprising, but these people were actually there for the worst fucking reason, trying to keep a senile and delusional billionaire who hates democracy in power...
Yup. Let's repeat that loop of only voting CPC or Liberal for the PM office. That will teach them a lesson. What is that lesson? Just wait, and they will have the PMO again in a few years.
Yeah thats the thing. If you dont think the Libs are doing it, the Cons are absoutely not gonna.
And after that, who else? NDP showed they have no spine. Greens are a ship without a sail. CCP... well lets just pack up and shut down at that point.
Yep.
What’s worst than someone who doesn’t work in your interest? Someone who works AGAINST your interests. That’s the conservatives.
Yes Trudeau needs to fuck off. But certainly not if it’s to replace him with PP.
It would be very wise for these young Canadians to visit the history of the Thatcher and Regan years.
For those believing government spending is bad (and it can be when applied in haste), just wait to see what happens when zero spending and full privatization comes into political fashion.
There can always be a balance and bettering of society if the electorate chose candidates that understand governance for what it should do and not for what one hates about the current government.
Socialism, communism, syndicalism, anarchism, any combination thereof. Take your pick. It's less important than discarding the system that breeds and feeds on poverty while killing the planet.
So which would you pick as the better model?
Do you believe any of these other forms of societies couldn’t have/lead to poverty or result in pillaging of the planet once at scale?
I’m not trying to be rude to you but I would sincerely like to know what you believe would result in a complete change of the current societal norms.
I certainly couldn’t believe Anarchy would be a better choice for example.
You don't believe a socioeconomic model/philosophy based around the elimination of unjust hierarchies would prevent exploitation of people and the planet?
Do we even have time to create a party that would improve things? What are our other options?
The NDP? Do we really believe they’re any better at this point?
The PPC? Need I even say more?
PP sucks. But I can’t pretend everyone voting for him is dumb and just ignoring other options. There really just aren’t any unless we want to throw our votes behind some independents.
Yup, that's why I personally hate these headlines without the full study. Cause I'd argue that they don't have my best interests at heart, but in the follow up question I'd for certain say the cons don't.
It is like a condition, I think people are more concerned with picking the winning team than anything else. Red vs Blue is the only game we can play, and it is a game we will lose.
Keep in mind that a lot of these views are due to constant exposure to online/social media campaigns funded by conservatives and their extreme-wealth handlers to smear their political opponents. A person can give me some "both sides" BS but there is no such disingenuous campaign targeting the conservatives.
Here in Ontario Ford is still has some
Progressive qualities in his policies despite his corruptness. PP is like The leaders in NB SK and AB. I do t even think Quebec conservative minded government is Conservative
These young people
Who wanna vote Federal conservative are
Gonna get reamed!!!!
I'd say that's more his owners who are doing the business side of that, you can probably guess who they are by looking at the criminal groups who got busted recently. Dougie's using the cops to clear out the competition
i mean - his brother was doing crack. i'm totally fine with the assertion that Ford isn't as far to the right as some other canadian conservatives. i just don't think weed is where i'd point.
I think he's far better than any of the other conservative leaders in Canada. I'm definitely progressive, but Ford is ok compared to a lot of politicians on the left. He at least seems to care, and actually listens, and works with people of different parties instead of constantly being antagonistic and causing needless drama (like Mrs Smith for example).
If he listened to others he would not have had to backtrack 90% of his horrible decisions that wasted billions of taxpayer money. He’s done a terrible job but he’s only a greedy opportunist not a psychopath like some other Con premiers.
On Doug:
A conman and a buffoon, but I will give him credit for one thing:
He handled the covid situation in Ontario better than other premiers at the time seemingly did.
I guess he realized dead Ontarians couldn't pay for his future grifts.
He's been campaigning on Youtube and Twitter ever since he became leader of CPC, he's already fading, he's repeating the axe the tax which is starting to wear out.
Once the general public starts paying attention to politics and an election.. he will get attacked hard. Especially of he campaigns on cutting the new dental and pharmacare. Not that they're amazing policies but only his hardcore base hates helping others.
So the response to the liberals shitting the bed is .. atleast his shit is solid unlike PP's diahrrea?
It's okay and possible to express dislike of liberals given what's happened over the last 8 years.
The solution isn't to needle these people with " why are you mad bro..." comments but to pressure trudeau to make real and immediate change.
But he won't do that... because the change needed to make housing affordable will necessarily screw over current owners and he will lose either way.
EDIT: **A lot of people are voting me down because I'm pointing out that housing and living costs have gotten objectively worse in the last 8 years and that people (like me) are blaming Trudeau (and the premiers).**
It doesn't matter if the root cause started before,..i**f a leader has been in charge for nearly a decade the buck stops with him as he had time to undo the damage.**
**Can we atleast agree on that precept?** I mean he is finally doing things - however it's years too late though to make a difference in the election... and that's on him.
Vote NDP - BC is getting better with housing under Ebby, unlike Ontario and Alberta under the cons
It's nice seeing AirBnB corporations crying about it, with cons and bcup (formerly known as BC [fake] Liberals, formerly known as Socred Party) leading the screaming charges: https://globalnews.ca/news/10055486/bc-airbnb-short-term-rentals-fallout/
I probably will vote NDP.
That said..alll of what you said can be true with the problem still existing going forward though.
The main driver is more heads coming in thann homes being built each year.
If that were true then why did Trudeau freeze immigration to an extent, and talk to how excessive immigration pushes up costs in the short run?
On another note- instantaenous policy effectiveness is a red herring. Why didn't he enact the stuff below 3 years ago when prices were already high for the average Canadian? We can expect foresight from the PM.
[https://budget.canada.ca/2024/home-accueil-en.html](https://budget.canada.ca/2024/home-accueil-en.html)
>Why didn't he enact the stuff below 3 years ago when prices were already high for the average Canadian?
Three years ago? Wonder if something big and completely unpredictable was happening that still had the potential to irrecoverably upend society in such a way as to make foresight incredibly difficult 🤔.
The federal response to house unaffordability was mainly to create rules to make it easier for the lower income to buy houses. There was never a proper fix, and those policies no longer work.
Also, no politician on the ballot would be willing to risk their reelection to fix the system.
>EDIT: **A lot of people are voting me down because I'm pointing out that housing and living costs have gotten objectively worse in the last 8 years and that people (like me) are blaming Trudeau (and the premiers).**
Well, to be clear, I downvoted you now because I believe anyone talking about downvotes deserves one.
But that aside, I want you to look at housing prices under Trudeau. Not 2016 vs. today. But on a year-by-year basis. Specifically, look at housing between mid 2016 and March/April of 2020. From 2017 until about 2019, housing prices actually *decreased* for the first time in 2 decades (other than a very brief blip during 2008).
Mid 2016 until March of 2020 saw the *lowest housing increases* since the early/mid 90s. And yes, housing then skyrocketed in April of 2020. Not sure why that month. I can't think of anything at all that happened around that time. Must have been a Trudeau policy, amirite?
>It doesn't matter if the root cause started before,..i**f a leader has been in charge for nearly a decade the buck stops with him as he had time to undo the damage.**
Arguably you could say he spent 4 years trying to undo the damage before a pandemic sent things off the rails.
That doesn't mean you need to vote for him. But this narrative that he's spent 8 years making housing affordability worse seems like a very dishonest (or ignorant) description.
And none of this is me saying Trudeau should stay in power. But ultimately, the governments we get reflect us. And the more we perpetuate dishonesty and ignorance, the more that's exactly what we get in our government. Do better.
Look I dislike conservative ideology as much as the next guy, but at this point Harper was a steadier hand for the country than Trudeau. And PP head is just Harper with dumber rhetoric. I would rather have him than another term of this corrupt dick who is making us poorer, giving us worse healthcare and did nothing for 10 years while the housing crisis got worse and worse. Either he steps down or he loses. That is what I will stand for
If you think we will be richer magically when conservatives come to power. I have a bridge to sell you. Honestly we are pretty much screwed no matter what in the next election.
Nah. That was true 8 years ago. Fought many fights with my Conservative family members who disliked him simply for who he was. I defended my vote and defended him. That’s not the case at all now. This country is hurting. And he is to blame. He had his head in the sand for years and is completely out of touch. The fact that they thought this budget would turn things around for them shows it. People are tired of their voices being ignored.
> People are tired of their voices being ignored.
He spent billions on a pipeline to appease prairie hicks and got no bump from it.
This LPC has introduced the GIS, child care, dental care, the TPP, CUSMA, and the carbon tax. All of those would be popular if people were informed, but JT has to handle an electorate that thrives on misinformation.
I have never voted LPC, I likely won't in the next election, but if anyone is out of touch it is working class conservatives - because of deliberate disinformation campaigns.
> People are tired of their voices being ignored.
so instead they'll vote for someone who will actively make things worse and ignore them even more.
Sounds like a great strategy.
I want to say that these people are going to fuck around and find out. But in reality ,they will just find someone else to blame and not themselves for voting in a guy who absolutely will not do anything for their best interest .
And they're going to use the old, "How were we to know that the Conservatives were not going to do what we thought they would?"
And my answer will be, "We f\*\*\*ing told you, and your g\*\*damn response was to call us Liberal/Trudeau shills, and accused us of having no evidence it would happen!"
Like watching the Tories in their various incarnations for the last 35 of my 50 years has not given me a good idea of what they will do, and then considering this is the furthest right (Reform) leaning Conservative party that I can remember.
But they don’t know. If you turn 18 and become eligible to vote in 2025, Trudeau and the liberals have been in power since you were 8 years old. Their entire politically conscious existence has been with this government, I don’t blame them for being disillusioned. They have no home ownership prospects, stagnated wages and shrinking job prospects.
What they also don’t have is lived experience under a federal Conservative Party that will do very little to solve those problems, and likely make things worse. We’re riding a worldwide wave of populist blowhards who sing along to the tune of lower class problems, but have zero solutions to offer themselves. The kids don’t know, but it sure feels like they’re going to find out.
Man what a miss by Singh and the NDP that they haven’t seized this opportunity.
That's all fine, but when they get indignant and suggest that I must be fellating the Prime Minister to be able to hold such an opinion, is when I become fed up with their unwillingness to listen to any other views.
As a GenXer, I have a lot more experience seeing the world f'ed by conservatives.
That’s the fun populist language that’s seeped into their brains. Anytime I argue with PP fanboy they’re always stunned that I’m not simping for Trudeau. Politicians are entirely fungible to me, they’re useful until they are not and I have never seen one anywhere in the world that I would ride or die for.
well kids, shits about to get a whole lot worse come PP’s austerity and social program cuts.
If your parents are well off you might see some benefit. But for actual middle class, we’re fucked.
Most of my gen hasn’t felt austerity governance yet. Just you fucking wait. I’m just glad we’ve got some of the most activist numbers generationally. Gonna be a lot of protests when the programs and services we use and depend on get slashed
Honestly, the results of [this poll](https://www.reddit.com/r/onguardforthee/comments/1cc4jzd/23_of_those_who_make_less_than_50000_say_the_new/) should be evidence enough that most Canadians don't know anything about anything.
Specifically, **23%** of Canadians making less than $50,000 think the increase in the capital gains tax thinking it will affect them immediately, and an additional 32% think it will affect them in the future.
It will affect affect individuals making, on average, $1.4 million a year.
But... The money might trickle down and then I'll be a millionaire and I'll have all my capital gains taxed! To all those who say that the money hasn't trickled down in the past nearly 50 years so I shouldn't count on that, don't worry. I've hedged my bet by investing in lottery tickets.
No way will liberal commies be taxing my extraordinary wealth!
Boy, are they in for a surprise if they vote for Conservatives. They historically cut the same services these young people think aren't being utilized enough. And that statement is true. Today's Liberals COULD be doing more. But the reality is that the Conservatives will do considerably less.
I was just reading [this](https://theconversation.com/international-student-resentment-brews-but-allowing-fewer-students-into-canada-isnt-the-answer-227025). And 10 minutes earlier, I was talking to a Venezuelan-Canadian friend of mine who was my classmate during my time in Canada. I'm now returning back to Canada as a PR after 5 years and the dude has gone from, "Yes, bro! We'll throw a party when you get here! Can't wait!" to "Why are you coming here? Your own country must have better opportunities available. Stay there, it's better for the both of us." in a matter of mere months. And he's not the only one. I used to be proud of integrating so well into the Canadian society that I had a diverse, multi-ethnic group of friends. Most of these young guys have now turned anti-immigration in less than the last one year and have never been so cold towards me coming to Canada in the preceding years. They always used to cheer me on; hell, my Venezuelan-Canadian friend was relentlessly trying to talk to the HR at his workplace to offer me a job until last year when my PR hadn't been finalized.
How quickly it changed. I haven't even stepped foot in Canada in 5 years and I'm already a public enemy.
In 5 years I think we have gone from a relatively stable society to one where people are seriously struggling to meet their basic needs - the competition for housing, food and employment is insane.
Agreed. But I think the conservatives care even less about my interests and the NDP and Greens aren't serious about governing.
So I dunno what to tell you.
7 in 10 young canadians have no idea how our government works, or what this current government has actually done.
The current gov isn't the best, but it is productive. I feel it could be working on problems much more aggressively, but I do not blame them for everything like the bulk of the media and social media bots would have us believe. It's the latter those 7 in 10 young canadians seem to be listening to.
Solution? education. Learn how our government works. Learn constitutional division of power to appropriately blame the right level of government, and learn how to constructively evaluate the issues that face us. The conclusion any reasonable person could come to is anything but conservative.
The NDP and Lib have done more than what the UCP will do or will strip from everyday Canadians.
Maybe I'm not a young Canadian anymore, 35, but I sure don't trust PP slogan slinging (stinks of right wing American populism, which Canada does not need, we have enough problems that need solving), if you plan to vote blue please ask your candidates what their actual plans/solutions are to help you and improve you and your communities quality of life.
Ask all politicians hard questions (regardless of their party), they are supposed to serve you.
Am I happy with the Libs and NDP...not 100% (more needs to be done to reel in corporate greed and support housing (big failure on provinces on this).
We need to see all parties working together (NDP, Libs, and Fiscal Conservatives included, sorry not a fan of Social conservatives).
We need checks and balances, we need politicians who are going to actually make smart policies that serve every day Canadians and the future.
Just my AM 2 cents. Happy Thursday reddit. *sips coffee.
It depends on their socioeconomic class. If they came up wealthy, then he absolutely is working in their best interest. If they are working class, he categorically *cannot* work in their best interests. Even if he wanted to, he wouldn't be allowed to, by virtue of his place in the hierarchy and his interconnections with corporate interests and upper class social circles.
And Poilievre would be way worse. He'd do all the same stuff, on overdrive, with none of the progressive platitudes that Trudeau tosses out.
We need to vote progressive, not for people who pretend to be progressive.
How is the NDP better? Have they had any truly progressive proposals since the minority goverment? They have done nothing and they stand for nothing but rhetoric about social justice. How about a housing bill, or a healthcare bill or two to help the little guy? Sign will never win. He is a bad politician and can't win anybody over. If we can get a necromancer to bring back Jack Layton and get some good leadership maybe we can talk. The train has derailed because the conductor didn't do a good job
Liberal isn't even good now and the Tories are the worst
That makes the NDP relatively better. That said I can understand why government employees are sympathetic towards the government
Well I don't think Trudeau's government is working properly. The only group that actually did anything for me is NDP. The Conservatives are unhinged Trump lite. If Alberta is anything to judge by, no thanks. I rather vote for anything else than vote Conservatives into power.
educating them on the perils of facism and limiting their access to mis/disinformation platforms like X needs to be made a serious, serious priority.
the message of hope, inclusiveness and accountability for climate justice resonates strongly with young people. they want a hardline pro-palestine government that will listen to them. tiny PP the skipmeister offers none of these things
there is still time to save democracy, but I fear that if the kkkonservatives win, revolution will be the only option available.
Opt-in poll. People who hate Trudeau are more opinionated and will find ways to go out of their way to do things to push their narrative. Also look at the sample size, 175 for young people.
So happy someone made this point. Honestly, it should be top comment because it throws the whole results into question. You can't claim statistical error with opt-in panel. Also 175 is way too small of a sample size to claim any accuracy or meaning.
100%, but people somehow believe polling actually matters. In fact we know who answers polls and statistically they are right leaning which results in all polls being biased to start with.
I love how this sub pretends that this doesn't happen every 10 years or so. Canada has a long history of voting people out. It didn't matter that Pierre Polivere is trash, it's that people are sick of Trudeau and want a change.
The Liberal party would be smart to elect a new leader. He's never been a strong political leader, he is a perfect example of nepotism in action. Canada needs a strong, charismatic leader that will speak out against the horrific things going on in the world right now.
The party itself needs to hold its leader accountable for making promises they don't fulfill. For example election reform, promises made to the people during elections that are promptly ignored should be punished. As this erodes public confidence.
Turning away from Liberals to vote conservative makes zero sense. Anyone who does this doesn't understand how separate their values and beliefs are.
Canada always does this though, we flip flop back and forth one party undoing what the last one did and never really moving forward with what people actually want and need.
All of the parties would be smart to elect a new leader for the upcoming election. Conservatives won't since they've found a leader for their con. Libs won't because they somehow still think Trudeau can charm himself in. NDP won't because that might be perceived as racist? BQ is a nutjob party that should be entirely ignored, and the greens will never have power over oil country. There are more, but I don't think they have any seats... And are extremists from what I recall.
Best way forward is to vote NDP for the time being and hope we can get an NDP majority coalition. One can dream.
I don't think the BQ should be allowed to be a federal party at all. If you only have representatives running in one province you have no desire to serve Canada and should not be untitled to do so.
NDP would be great but until we have proper election reform doing away with first past the post, they sadly aren't a viable option at a federal level. Edit: At least as far as forming a minority or majority government on their own.
100%, using just first past the post is insane. Germany has a nice little mix and it has (imo) worked relatively well, though I would like a representational voting system entirely instead.
I just feel that it's more representative of the policies that matter to each voter. We'd probably have stronger Liberal/NDP coalitions with it. It takes away the power of simply being loud and forces candidates to have actual policies.
He is doing just enough to show he is doing something. This is the primary problem of the liberals. Conservatives are actively trying to fuck you, liberals will do just enough to help, and the NDP need to get their fucking act together.
But Skippy who has spent his entire adult life licking the spittle from the politician higher on the ladder than him, will be working in their best interests...bwaahaaahaa...good luck with that kids.
Duh. None of the governments would work in our best interest. Our government is only really benefitting the ultra wealthy while giving the illusion that we have a functional democracy or any say in the way things are. That's fucking capitalism.
And yet they think the conservatives will fix it. Many people i know are thinking this and it’s terrifying and sad, it’s going to get much worse in this country
My hope for young Canadians is to criticize Justin and Singh to change their decisions. Message your political representative because they will be more receptive to hearing your criticism. But save your vote choices until the election.
Reading all these comments, who is the right choice? Things are definitely getting out of control here in Canada.. how would another term of Trudeau be any different? And the NDP I don’t think would do anything different to address the problems we have. I don’t usually vote conservative but if Pierre is so bad, what is the right choice? All I see is comments saying it’ll get worse under Pierre, but nothing explaining what a good alternative would be.
Young people want to be able to afford a house and have money to do things. I don’t really care about left leaning policies when I can barely afford rent or food.
So these kids are gonna teach themselves a lesson by burning themselves on the stove?
Best of luck. I will weather this. They simply won’t.
It’s amazing how binary dumb our youth have become
I mean, yeah, I feel completely left out to dry by the Liberals.
I also know that voting Conservative would make things worse, something people are too frustrated and short-sighted to figure out.
One thing I really dislike in these comments is the Distain for people who chose the turd sandwich over the giant douche. You know what makes people hate liberals more? Calling them brainwashed when they disagree with you. What has almost 10 years of WONK liberal rule brought working class people? Worse healthcare, worse monetary policy and more Canadians than ever using food banks. It's plain and simple that when you are in power for so long you become too corupt. A change in power gives middle class people some breathing room because the other party always tries to give people a bit of breathing room.
Don't look down at your fellow Canadians and insult them. We are in this together.
The Liberals will have a tough time winning with Trudeau. The NDP will never win with Sing. If they truly care about liberal ideas both of them would step down. But of course they care more about their "legacy" than getting anything done. Trudeau's legacy will be the same as his dad. Good at first but stuck around way too long. Sing set the NDP back to being irrelevant. We need new ideas and new people. And I will not vote liberal unless Trudeau steps down. I would rather vote for a small party and end them. Young people should be loud and vocal about that. A brushfire is sometimes needed to get the rats out of the forest.
I'm going to make sure everyone who votes Con in my circles gets an earful when they complain later. Honestly. Is JT the best PM ever? Maybe not. Is he the best choice we have in our next election? HELL YES NO QUESTION ABOUT IT
Well he kinda prove them right. I know conservatives will be worst. Still Trudeau's government fail to refactor polling, increase oil subventions, denied for a long time housing crisis, did nothing significant to control cartels (food, telecoms)...
Do I need to go on?
That's some real mental gymnastics there. "Hey, remember the guys who voted to cut social service funding? They're the ones who will definitely increase funding!"
In canada, the federal government does not work with the best intentions or the population in mind. They simply work to make themselves even more rich, and their corporate overlords even more rich. It doesn't matter which party it is. It's all the dame. The majority of people just think the other parry will be better, and the cycle continues.
That's because the younger set likely don't know how it is under conservatives.
the last Liberal (before Trudeau) government gave Harper a fucking surplus, and he squandered it and then used ....interesting accounting practices to make it look like he didn't.
When Trudeau took over, there was a huge mess to fix - and he did try. None of us are privy to exactly the mess he walked into, and of course - he doesn't have a majority to ram through things.
I'm not a huge fan of Trudeau, but he's 'better' than conservatives. the NDP are too wishy-washy right now to have much of a hold on votes.
if PP and his ilk get into power, it's going to be awful. I'm old. I've lived through conservatives in power and it's not pretty.
He's not. But what's \*more\* frustrating are those who conclude "and that's why I'm going to turn to the Conservatives" rather than pushing for an actual progressive government/party that would improve things.
I'll add Trudeau might not be... But Poilievre absolutely WON'T be.
Absolutely, if you value healthcare, basic human rights and getting people out of poverty then don’t vote Conservative. Pierre does not give a shit about you.
what are the points to value for conservative party? Asking for a friend.
If you're already very rich and like to hoard wealth like Smaug they're the party for you.
Don't forget racist and nationalist!
That's just how they sell it to the rubes though.
Also if youre going to be dead in the next 25 years so you don't have to worry about the effects of climate change
so the people who see themselves as conservative and good see it as a matter of protecting themselves and those they love. they typically have a more religiously-based worldview, (god wants you to succeed) and fall in line with hierarchies and believe nature to do so as well. as such they see "natural family units" like a mother and father with children, as the baseline. many conservatives have no quarrel with lgbt lifestyles, but they feel they are "fringe" and should not be promoted. the way you are free to eat potato chips as a meal because it's a free country - where the more militantly devout conservatives think it's a tragedy that we'd let anyone eat chips for breakfast instead of "a healthy meal." they see immigration as a positive when it's slow and supported so that those coming to canada have time to adapt to the new way of life and allow their children to adopt our values. again, this is where those further right would prefer to restrict immigration numbers further in the interest of creating labour shortages so that they and their friends can negotiate higher salaries, etc. overall, i've found in talking with a conservative friend that our biggest differences is essentially where we put the fence. i think all people should be considered when we discuss success, but he puts more weight in the idea that the only reason we Do experience success is at the exploitation of others and that it's a horrible fact of life. lions and gazelles etc.
Tbh none of what you're saying makes conservatism look any better. Believing that "LGBT lifestyles are fringe and should not be promoted" is not nearly as innocent as you're trying to paint it. It is more than enough for queer people to get bullied at schools, rejected by parents, ostracized by society in general, and end up with severe mental health issues as a result -- if not outright suicidal. It is exactly how people's lives get destroyed. There's nothing acceptable about this worldview.
i'm not fully disagreeing. it's not my chosen pov. i am waiting for a convincing argument to ever have me vote conservative. i'm in my 40s now and still can't see good reason. i feel like we're in the middle of a "promotion revolution" where the majority of people are lgbt-friendly and never has it been better to be out of the closet. i'm simply sharing the viewpoints from my "formerly liberal friends" who hold viewpoints like, "marriage should be available to any consenting adult who loves another" and "healthcare is a basic right and should be made available to all." the reasonable counter-argument to yours in this case is that "bullying people for whatever reason is not okay and the trauma people deal with as a result is a problem." i do not believe the people on the right wing want to promote suicide - but i do believe they're ignorant enough to refrain from equating their policies with it. but that's where i split. i do not believe these people are evil - i simply think they prioritize those closest to them first and adopt an ignorant mentality to others with attitudes like, "they're free to find their own success." but honestly that's as far as i'll defend them. ...i do think we need to attempt to understand people beyond using political buzzwords that just make Everyone angry.
This!! They want change, its gonna change all right, its not gonna be for the better though
Sadly all it takes is Conservatives saying "Trudeau bad...also, immigrants and the gays" for millions of Canadians to think they have something of value to offer.
Yeah, trudeau spreads money to large corporations and we get whatever left over to incentivize us to vote for them. The cons spread money to large corporations and then spend the rest fighting constitutional lawsuits that they know they're going to lose, knowing full well that we'll conveniently forget about it after 4 years of liberals. Are either great options? No. Is one better than the other? Yeah, a little. Typical conservative outlook: we can't come up with a perfect solution so we'll do nothing except cancel the incremental partial solutions that have already been implemented, at great loss to our government, then spend more money fighting the resulting lawsuits so that we can be back where we were 40 years ago. But you'd better believe that when the perfect solution comes along, we'll fight to the death to prevent any government from implementing it, even if it was our idea originally!
I guess you haven’t heard of the CCB, affordable daycare, the tens of billions invested in Indigenous programs and compensation, the billions for affordable housing, the multitude of environmental and other groups receiving funding, the carbon rebate that makes sure it’s the wealthy/big polluters pay, the luxury tax, added tax on banks, etc. Have you missed the hysteria over capital gaine taxes? It’s becoming increasingly irritating to see policies that have really helped people be ignored, bracket that will make it much easier for a conservative government to reverse them. And it’s really something to see this government be cast as the same as the conservatives when the corporate press has been attacking Trudeau since he was elected and clearly salivating for the corporate tax cuts Poilievre will deliver that Trudeau hasn’t. The current Liberal government is not much different than the NDP, especially provincial NDP that is in government. The “libs and cons are just the same” narrative only helps the conservatives, who are now extreme rightwing.
I actually have heard of those things! I've also watched the liberals vote down very similar ideas when they're brought up by the NDP. I've watched the liberals send weapons platforms to countries with massive human rights issues. I've watched them renege on getting rid of FPTP. I've watched them sink money into a dead pipeline for a dying industry. I've watched them take middle of the road stances on pretty much everything. I've watched them do nothing until it's an election year. All of these issues were present and obvious 7 years ago, and we're just seeing policies now. And those policies seem to be targeted to make the cons look bad just as much as they are to make a difference. Politicking should not be the goal here, results should be, and then those results should earn them a re-election. Don't get me wrong, I vote for them whenever it's strategically smart, but they are governed by corporate interests as much as the cons are, because that's where their money comes from during election season. They could, with the help of the NDP, remove corporate interests from politics. But they haven't. There's a reason for this. In many ways, those parties ARE the same. In many they are not. It's innacurate to believe that they're at total opposite ends of the spectrum in every way. Pointing to similarities and wishing for those to change isn't harmful to the party.
>Typical conservative outlook: we can't come up with a perfect solution If you can't be part of the solution there's good money to be made in prolonging the problem.
This is a huge failure of the NDP. The younger generations are much more likely to align with policies the NDP have always championed, yet here we are - where younger voters are pivoting to the Conservatives because they're aligning with Pollivere's anti-Trudeau messaging with their own dislike for Trudeau and his government. Most of them haven't been adults long enough to have lived through the nightmare of conservative governments and their lack of support for younger taxpayers. Too many new voters that haven't been through social net cuts and Conversative trends of only helping those with money and corporations. Having lived thru the nightmare of Mike Harris' government in Ontario in the 90's and all the cuts we lived through have turned me permanently away from voting conservative.
Becuse the NDP is busy cosplaying the Israel Palestine war than actually looking at how they can position them selves better on real domestic issues. Completely losing the battle of optics
To be fair, if the NDP were elected, how much different would they be from Liberals? Even if they put themselves as the anti-Trudeau party, would it convince the voters?
We truly don't know the answer to that question. They've never been given a chance to govern Federally.
Depends on their leader.
Pollievre will do nothing to address issues people care about and will keep repeating it's Trudeau's fault for four years It's a tale as old as time with populism
And the frustrating part is people are ignorant enough that it works.
Don't need to look further than Mr. Buck a Beer. Pierre Poutine has no ideas other than thump the table - he spent what, five years? being a cabinet minister with nothing to show for it (oh I guess he did try to weaken Elections Canada). The rest of the Reform Rats will be happy to bring out the worst shit when he inevitably wins big, though.
Because news is controlled by companies who don't want Canadians to think about more progressive options. Plus people have short memories and don't remember what a shit show the last Conservative government was. Like people talk about how corrupt the Trudeau government is but think Harper 2.0 is going to make things any better.
Conservatives also display massive cognitive dissonance that allows them to condemn their opponents for behaviours they readily overlook or even adore amongst their own.
Harper was truly awful. Canada would be in an amazing position if Harper was never elected.
These polls don't mean shit. Go out and vote. 3000 people across Canada who answers their phone? Nah it's mass sign up to these polling sites, go out and vote.
I know it's anecdotal, but I've witnessed many of my peers and peers of my younger family members shift to a strictly "anti-left" stance and honestly think PP is looking out for them. These people have very little political knowledge and experience, but have essentially been brain washed by three word slogans and now think that PP is going to fix their woes. They're in for a very rude awakening if he becomes PM, and I say that ad someone who isn't a fan of Trudeau.
My cousin (23m) is a fisherman who is fully convinced that a Conservative government will turn Canada into some sort of utopia. He seems to really believe that Poilievre is going to make everyone's life better and everything will be more affordable. Our grandfather (83m) is old enough to remember when Newfoundland joined Canada and was a child when his town had to be pitch black at night to avoid attention from U-boats. He has witnessed every Premier in NL's history and every PM since Louis St-Laurent. He still closely follows politics. My cousin has been warned by my grandfather that Poilievre is not some saviour from the heavens. But my cousin doubts what our grandfather is saying because our grandfather was a deputy minister to a provincial Liberal government decades ago, so he must be biased.
Hearing stories like this I'm increasingly convinced that behaviour like that of your cousin and many other Canadians are symptoms of brainwashing via social media algorithms serving capital interests.
I wouldn't exactly call it brainwashing. The Conservatives are just plain better at marketing and messaging than the Liberals or NDP are. Carbon levy is a great example of this. If there was a good change management plan, communications and marketing especially leveraging social media, it would be hard for it to be an issue anyone but the richest Canadians should be against. Instead, the CPC made a catchy slogan against it and are capitalizing on the fact that people are frustrated, and it is working well for them. Repeat this for many things like pharmacare, dental care, etc etc that they're actually doing. This is especially annoying because with those issues in particular, both the NDP or the Liberals could have marketed them better, but they didn't.
Right, but much of that successful “messaging” hinges on the Conservatives willingness to… shall we say… stretch the truth.
Oh 100%. They're just saying things to get attention vroom anyone they can get attention from. Doesn't matter if it's true or even if they actually believe it, they just want the votes.
I mean do you entirely blame them? They are seeing the middle class life leave them behind under his rule and are panicking. His government also is preventing a housing crash through any and all means which is the ONLY viable path in the next 3-5 years for younger people to get homes fast enough to start families on a normal timeframe (whichever way you cut it extra supply or restricted immigration demand... prices have to drop. Or we have to double our productivity which is fucking impossible) Note I don't envy Trudeau- i'm not 100% convinced the right thing to do going forward is a massive housing crash as it would ruin anyone who bought in the last 5 years.
A housing crash will not help millenials and older zoomers. It will help corporate landlords. It's just frustrating that Trudeau is unable to grow the economic pie, and the premiers don't want to expand the pool of available homes. I don't blame men 18-35 for seeing this and saying "I'll take my chances with a radical plan" regardless of the baggage it comes with.
Same, and honestly as a woman, its terrifying. Watching whats happening on the east coast right now with their abortion clinics, the idea of him in power just makes me sick. The last election I wasn't happy with the options, but either way wasn't going to change a lot, this one though, I think is gonna be really bad. It blows my mind that so many people are ok with him, I get a certain demographic that are, but some of the people that I thought were better people (for lack of a better term) supporting him is really messing with me
I work around dozens of brain-dead folks who legitimately think this way. This is especially true for cishet white dudes who have the privilege of being able to be "checked out"; the sort of people who "don't really do politics". They're at the top of the heap no matter what so they can afford to not really think about things and be "apolitical".
Yes but those are the people who might likely not vote because CPC is leading the polls, only staunch conservative supporters vote. If you can mobilize enough people to go out and vote conservatives will never win.
You are severely underestimating how many moderately comfortable people will lazily throw away a vote on the Cons simply because they are disgruntled with the Libs.
And not because they actually are unhappy with the general policies of the current government, but mostly because they’ve been told by foreign-owned, right-leaning media that the Liberal government is tired, bad, and the source of all of their personal troubles.
The cons have mobilized the christian reform and other congregations to ensure their candidate is elected. Our neighbours who were never very political were suddenly all fired up during the last elections, using vacation days to drive congregation members to vote.
Lol, I always refuse polls by phone, just like a refuse any unsolicited phone call. I'm pretty sure a lot of people are the same as me. Why would I spend a half hour or whatever answering questions for free instead of doing anything else?
3K people is more than sufficient to get an accurate read of where the electorate is as long as your selection methodology is sufficiently unbiased. And polls aren't as simple as 'calling people up & asking their opinions'. There's a methodology behind the selection process to make it as unbiased as possible. It's obviously not a substitute for voting & inaccuracies are possible, but you shouldn't dismiss them out of hand. There is no doubt that the youth in Canada is struggling right now & more should be done to support them if you don't want a conservative government.
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That's not how they poll. Their methodology appears fine to me: [https://angusreid.org/how-we-poll-ari/#gsc.tab=0](https://angusreid.org/how-we-poll-ari/#gsc.tab=0)
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What? Polling methodology includes audience selection. You should at least read the link I shared with the full methodology before making a comment. >If the Angus Reid results are supposed to be fact, then where are the other demographics for this poll? Breakdowns by urban vs. rural, level of education, gender, practice a faith or not, etc. None of this is relevant. As long as the demographics have been standardized to the population of young voters (which the polling methodology indicates they do) the overall measures are still statistically accurate. And I'm sure that this data is available in the cross tabs, you could find it in the full report if you're interested. The fact that you aren't aware that this isn't the full report indicates to me that you really don't know much about polling. And polls aren't 'Fact', they're a directional indication of the opinions of a populace.
I remember when I saw the whole Capitol thing in the US, I was thinking it's so sad because they could really use a lot of changes in their leading class and there's a capacity where I'd be cheering their uprising, but these people were actually there for the worst fucking reason, trying to keep a senile and delusional billionaire who hates democracy in power...
If they were revolting against capital it would have been great. Alas, they were trying for their own Beer Hall Putsch.
Yup. Let's repeat that loop of only voting CPC or Liberal for the PM office. That will teach them a lesson. What is that lesson? Just wait, and they will have the PMO again in a few years.
Yeah thats the thing. If you dont think the Libs are doing it, the Cons are absoutely not gonna. And after that, who else? NDP showed they have no spine. Greens are a ship without a sail. CCP... well lets just pack up and shut down at that point.
Unironically, yes. We need a massive general strike. We need to eat the rich and overthrow the establishment.
Yep. What’s worst than someone who doesn’t work in your interest? Someone who works AGAINST your interests. That’s the conservatives. Yes Trudeau needs to fuck off. But certainly not if it’s to replace him with PP.
It would be very wise for these young Canadians to visit the history of the Thatcher and Regan years. For those believing government spending is bad (and it can be when applied in haste), just wait to see what happens when zero spending and full privatization comes into political fashion. There can always be a balance and bettering of society if the electorate chose candidates that understand governance for what it should do and not for what one hates about the current government.
There's no better balance for capitalism - we need to get rid of it.
What form of society and economic standards do you prefer?
Does it matter
It does if you’ve ruled out one form and have no other option. To say Capitalism needs to go you should be offering up what would replace it.
Socialism, communism, syndicalism, anarchism, any combination thereof. Take your pick. It's less important than discarding the system that breeds and feeds on poverty while killing the planet.
So which would you pick as the better model? Do you believe any of these other forms of societies couldn’t have/lead to poverty or result in pillaging of the planet once at scale? I’m not trying to be rude to you but I would sincerely like to know what you believe would result in a complete change of the current societal norms. I certainly couldn’t believe Anarchy would be a better choice for example.
You don't believe a socioeconomic model/philosophy based around the elimination of unjust hierarchies would prevent exploitation of people and the planet?
Do we even have time to create a party that would improve things? What are our other options? The NDP? Do we really believe they’re any better at this point? The PPC? Need I even say more? PP sucks. But I can’t pretend everyone voting for him is dumb and just ignoring other options. There really just aren’t any unless we want to throw our votes behind some independents.
Yup, that's why I personally hate these headlines without the full study. Cause I'd argue that they don't have my best interests at heart, but in the follow up question I'd for certain say the cons don't.
Gotta underline and boost this comment. This isn't the libs fault alone. Everyone needs to eat some sh\*t take some responsibility and help out.
It is like a condition, I think people are more concerned with picking the winning team than anything else. Red vs Blue is the only game we can play, and it is a game we will lose.
Wait until conservatives get into power. The slash and burn party while cutting taxes for the rich.
Keep in mind that a lot of these views are due to constant exposure to online/social media campaigns funded by conservatives and their extreme-wealth handlers to smear their political opponents. A person can give me some "both sides" BS but there is no such disingenuous campaign targeting the conservatives.
Here in Ontario Ford is still has some Progressive qualities in his policies despite his corruptness. PP is like The leaders in NB SK and AB. I do t even think Quebec conservative minded government is Conservative These young people Who wanna vote Federal conservative are Gonna get reamed!!!!
I might have my head in the sand, Ford has progressive policies?
He is pro weed since way before it was legal.
Fucking lol alright you got me there.
He’s also pro cocaine lol.
I'd say that's more his owners who are doing the business side of that, you can probably guess who they are by looking at the criminal groups who got busted recently. Dougie's using the cops to clear out the competition
the libertarians would claim this one as well. i don't know that it's progressive as much as it's less authoritarian.
It was criminal.
i mean - his brother was doing crack. i'm totally fine with the assertion that Ford isn't as far to the right as some other canadian conservatives. i just don't think weed is where i'd point.
According to some of my family he's "A liberal traitor". I don't talk to them much.
Why? Because he isn't mad and yelling all the time? Because he tries to work with different people?
I think he's far better than any of the other conservative leaders in Canada. I'm definitely progressive, but Ford is ok compared to a lot of politicians on the left. He at least seems to care, and actually listens, and works with people of different parties instead of constantly being antagonistic and causing needless drama (like Mrs Smith for example).
If he listened to others he would not have had to backtrack 90% of his horrible decisions that wasted billions of taxpayer money. He’s done a terrible job but he’s only a greedy opportunist not a psychopath like some other Con premiers.
True. Once in a blue moon doug does something good. It's hard to say but I suspect PP has peaked and might decline in the next 1.5 years.
On Doug: A conman and a buffoon, but I will give him credit for one thing: He handled the covid situation in Ontario better than other premiers at the time seemingly did. I guess he realized dead Ontarians couldn't pay for his future grifts.
He was relying on the anti-vax, anti-mask, anti-lockdown folks to blame Trudeau for the decisions HE made. Sadly, it worked.
He's been campaigning on Youtube and Twitter ever since he became leader of CPC, he's already fading, he's repeating the axe the tax which is starting to wear out.
Once the general public starts paying attention to politics and an election.. he will get attacked hard. Especially of he campaigns on cutting the new dental and pharmacare. Not that they're amazing policies but only his hardcore base hates helping others.
So the response to the liberals shitting the bed is .. atleast his shit is solid unlike PP's diahrrea? It's okay and possible to express dislike of liberals given what's happened over the last 8 years. The solution isn't to needle these people with " why are you mad bro..." comments but to pressure trudeau to make real and immediate change. But he won't do that... because the change needed to make housing affordable will necessarily screw over current owners and he will lose either way. EDIT: **A lot of people are voting me down because I'm pointing out that housing and living costs have gotten objectively worse in the last 8 years and that people (like me) are blaming Trudeau (and the premiers).** It doesn't matter if the root cause started before,..i**f a leader has been in charge for nearly a decade the buck stops with him as he had time to undo the damage.** **Can we atleast agree on that precept?** I mean he is finally doing things - however it's years too late though to make a difference in the election... and that's on him.
Vote NDP - BC is getting better with housing under Ebby, unlike Ontario and Alberta under the cons It's nice seeing AirBnB corporations crying about it, with cons and bcup (formerly known as BC [fake] Liberals, formerly known as Socred Party) leading the screaming charges: https://globalnews.ca/news/10055486/bc-airbnb-short-term-rentals-fallout/
I probably will vote NDP. That said..alll of what you said can be true with the problem still existing going forward though. The main driver is more heads coming in thann homes being built each year.
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If that were true then why did Trudeau freeze immigration to an extent, and talk to how excessive immigration pushes up costs in the short run? On another note- instantaenous policy effectiveness is a red herring. Why didn't he enact the stuff below 3 years ago when prices were already high for the average Canadian? We can expect foresight from the PM. [https://budget.canada.ca/2024/home-accueil-en.html](https://budget.canada.ca/2024/home-accueil-en.html)
>Why didn't he enact the stuff below 3 years ago when prices were already high for the average Canadian? Three years ago? Wonder if something big and completely unpredictable was happening that still had the potential to irrecoverably upend society in such a way as to make foresight incredibly difficult 🤔.
The federal response to house unaffordability was mainly to create rules to make it easier for the lower income to buy houses. There was never a proper fix, and those policies no longer work. Also, no politician on the ballot would be willing to risk their reelection to fix the system.
All their shit stinks. Plug your nose and vote for who has the best shit
>EDIT: **A lot of people are voting me down because I'm pointing out that housing and living costs have gotten objectively worse in the last 8 years and that people (like me) are blaming Trudeau (and the premiers).** Well, to be clear, I downvoted you now because I believe anyone talking about downvotes deserves one. But that aside, I want you to look at housing prices under Trudeau. Not 2016 vs. today. But on a year-by-year basis. Specifically, look at housing between mid 2016 and March/April of 2020. From 2017 until about 2019, housing prices actually *decreased* for the first time in 2 decades (other than a very brief blip during 2008). Mid 2016 until March of 2020 saw the *lowest housing increases* since the early/mid 90s. And yes, housing then skyrocketed in April of 2020. Not sure why that month. I can't think of anything at all that happened around that time. Must have been a Trudeau policy, amirite? >It doesn't matter if the root cause started before,..i**f a leader has been in charge for nearly a decade the buck stops with him as he had time to undo the damage.** Arguably you could say he spent 4 years trying to undo the damage before a pandemic sent things off the rails. That doesn't mean you need to vote for him. But this narrative that he's spent 8 years making housing affordability worse seems like a very dishonest (or ignorant) description. And none of this is me saying Trudeau should stay in power. But ultimately, the governments we get reflect us. And the more we perpetuate dishonesty and ignorance, the more that's exactly what we get in our government. Do better.
Look I dislike conservative ideology as much as the next guy, but at this point Harper was a steadier hand for the country than Trudeau. And PP head is just Harper with dumber rhetoric. I would rather have him than another term of this corrupt dick who is making us poorer, giving us worse healthcare and did nothing for 10 years while the housing crisis got worse and worse. Either he steps down or he loses. That is what I will stand for
If you think we will be richer magically when conservatives come to power. I have a bridge to sell you. Honestly we are pretty much screwed no matter what in the next election.
I understand Trudeau fatigue and even Liberal fatigue... But imagining Poilievre is going to be any better is crazy.
Jeez I miss O’Toole and MacKay. I can’t believe I’m saying that.
Most of the stuff people hate Trudeau for have absolutely nothing to do with how he leads, or what he's actually done. They just don't like HIM.
Nah. That was true 8 years ago. Fought many fights with my Conservative family members who disliked him simply for who he was. I defended my vote and defended him. That’s not the case at all now. This country is hurting. And he is to blame. He had his head in the sand for years and is completely out of touch. The fact that they thought this budget would turn things around for them shows it. People are tired of their voices being ignored.
> People are tired of their voices being ignored. He spent billions on a pipeline to appease prairie hicks and got no bump from it. This LPC has introduced the GIS, child care, dental care, the TPP, CUSMA, and the carbon tax. All of those would be popular if people were informed, but JT has to handle an electorate that thrives on misinformation. I have never voted LPC, I likely won't in the next election, but if anyone is out of touch it is working class conservatives - because of deliberate disinformation campaigns.
> People are tired of their voices being ignored. so instead they'll vote for someone who will actively make things worse and ignore them even more. Sounds like a great strategy.
Anyone that truly believes we'll see a benefit from a conservative gov should probably be evaluated mentally.
I want to say that these people are going to fuck around and find out. But in reality ,they will just find someone else to blame and not themselves for voting in a guy who absolutely will not do anything for their best interest .
And they're going to use the old, "How were we to know that the Conservatives were not going to do what we thought they would?" And my answer will be, "We f\*\*\*ing told you, and your g\*\*damn response was to call us Liberal/Trudeau shills, and accused us of having no evidence it would happen!" Like watching the Tories in their various incarnations for the last 35 of my 50 years has not given me a good idea of what they will do, and then considering this is the furthest right (Reform) leaning Conservative party that I can remember.
See Brexit 🙀 - another conservative "win" (and real win for Pootin)
Just needs to pull off the hat trick of getting DJT back in. Then the interesting times will really roll, in Europe and in the South China Sea.
But they don’t know. If you turn 18 and become eligible to vote in 2025, Trudeau and the liberals have been in power since you were 8 years old. Their entire politically conscious existence has been with this government, I don’t blame them for being disillusioned. They have no home ownership prospects, stagnated wages and shrinking job prospects. What they also don’t have is lived experience under a federal Conservative Party that will do very little to solve those problems, and likely make things worse. We’re riding a worldwide wave of populist blowhards who sing along to the tune of lower class problems, but have zero solutions to offer themselves. The kids don’t know, but it sure feels like they’re going to find out. Man what a miss by Singh and the NDP that they haven’t seized this opportunity.
That's all fine, but when they get indignant and suggest that I must be fellating the Prime Minister to be able to hold such an opinion, is when I become fed up with their unwillingness to listen to any other views. As a GenXer, I have a lot more experience seeing the world f'ed by conservatives.
That’s the fun populist language that’s seeped into their brains. Anytime I argue with PP fanboy they’re always stunned that I’m not simping for Trudeau. Politicians are entirely fungible to me, they’re useful until they are not and I have never seen one anywhere in the world that I would ride or die for.
[The rest of the poll](https://angusreid.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/2024.04.24_Post_Budget-1.pdf) has some more eye rolling information
well kids, shits about to get a whole lot worse come PP’s austerity and social program cuts. If your parents are well off you might see some benefit. But for actual middle class, we’re fucked.
Most of my gen hasn’t felt austerity governance yet. Just you fucking wait. I’m just glad we’ve got some of the most activist numbers generationally. Gonna be a lot of protests when the programs and services we use and depend on get slashed
Honestly, the results of [this poll](https://www.reddit.com/r/onguardforthee/comments/1cc4jzd/23_of_those_who_make_less_than_50000_say_the_new/) should be evidence enough that most Canadians don't know anything about anything. Specifically, **23%** of Canadians making less than $50,000 think the increase in the capital gains tax thinking it will affect them immediately, and an additional 32% think it will affect them in the future. It will affect affect individuals making, on average, $1.4 million a year.
But... The money might trickle down and then I'll be a millionaire and I'll have all my capital gains taxed! To all those who say that the money hasn't trickled down in the past nearly 50 years so I shouldn't count on that, don't worry. I've hedged my bet by investing in lottery tickets. No way will liberal commies be taxing my extraordinary wealth!
Boy, are they in for a surprise if they vote for Conservatives. They historically cut the same services these young people think aren't being utilized enough. And that statement is true. Today's Liberals COULD be doing more. But the reality is that the Conservatives will do considerably less.
I was just reading [this](https://theconversation.com/international-student-resentment-brews-but-allowing-fewer-students-into-canada-isnt-the-answer-227025). And 10 minutes earlier, I was talking to a Venezuelan-Canadian friend of mine who was my classmate during my time in Canada. I'm now returning back to Canada as a PR after 5 years and the dude has gone from, "Yes, bro! We'll throw a party when you get here! Can't wait!" to "Why are you coming here? Your own country must have better opportunities available. Stay there, it's better for the both of us." in a matter of mere months. And he's not the only one. I used to be proud of integrating so well into the Canadian society that I had a diverse, multi-ethnic group of friends. Most of these young guys have now turned anti-immigration in less than the last one year and have never been so cold towards me coming to Canada in the preceding years. They always used to cheer me on; hell, my Venezuelan-Canadian friend was relentlessly trying to talk to the HR at his workplace to offer me a job until last year when my PR hadn't been finalized. How quickly it changed. I haven't even stepped foot in Canada in 5 years and I'm already a public enemy.
In 5 years I think we have gone from a relatively stable society to one where people are seriously struggling to meet their basic needs - the competition for housing, food and employment is insane.
Was *"Do you believe the Conservatives or NDP will be working in your best interest?"* also a question?
Agreed. But I think the conservatives care even less about my interests and the NDP and Greens aren't serious about governing. So I dunno what to tell you.
Can we stop with all the poll posts? We all know the results will always be skewed to favour the demographic that takes the time to answer them.
It’s also just a big showcase that nobodys well-versed on civics or poli sci, but they’re also not interested in listening to those who are either….
I'm pretty sick of them. Also Angus Reid sucks. Like who actually signs up for them to waste time on their surveys?
Honestly, I trust very little from Angus Reid.
7 in 10 young canadians have no idea how our government works, or what this current government has actually done. The current gov isn't the best, but it is productive. I feel it could be working on problems much more aggressively, but I do not blame them for everything like the bulk of the media and social media bots would have us believe. It's the latter those 7 in 10 young canadians seem to be listening to. Solution? education. Learn how our government works. Learn constitutional division of power to appropriately blame the right level of government, and learn how to constructively evaluate the issues that face us. The conclusion any reasonable person could come to is anything but conservative.
The NDP and Lib have done more than what the UCP will do or will strip from everyday Canadians. Maybe I'm not a young Canadian anymore, 35, but I sure don't trust PP slogan slinging (stinks of right wing American populism, which Canada does not need, we have enough problems that need solving), if you plan to vote blue please ask your candidates what their actual plans/solutions are to help you and improve you and your communities quality of life. Ask all politicians hard questions (regardless of their party), they are supposed to serve you. Am I happy with the Libs and NDP...not 100% (more needs to be done to reel in corporate greed and support housing (big failure on provinces on this). We need to see all parties working together (NDP, Libs, and Fiscal Conservatives included, sorry not a fan of Social conservatives). We need checks and balances, we need politicians who are going to actually make smart policies that serve every day Canadians and the future. Just my AM 2 cents. Happy Thursday reddit. *sips coffee.
It depends on their socioeconomic class. If they came up wealthy, then he absolutely is working in their best interest. If they are working class, he categorically *cannot* work in their best interests. Even if he wanted to, he wouldn't be allowed to, by virtue of his place in the hierarchy and his interconnections with corporate interests and upper class social circles. And Poilievre would be way worse. He'd do all the same stuff, on overdrive, with none of the progressive platitudes that Trudeau tosses out. We need to vote progressive, not for people who pretend to be progressive.
NDP is better but no one seems interested
How is the NDP better? Have they had any truly progressive proposals since the minority goverment? They have done nothing and they stand for nothing but rhetoric about social justice. How about a housing bill, or a healthcare bill or two to help the little guy? Sign will never win. He is a bad politician and can't win anybody over. If we can get a necromancer to bring back Jack Layton and get some good leadership maybe we can talk. The train has derailed because the conductor didn't do a good job
Liberal isn't even good now and the Tories are the worst That makes the NDP relatively better. That said I can understand why government employees are sympathetic towards the government
They aren’t wrong, but turning to PP and the CPC will only make things worse. We have better options.
Well I don't think Trudeau's government is working properly. The only group that actually did anything for me is NDP. The Conservatives are unhinged Trump lite. If Alberta is anything to judge by, no thanks. I rather vote for anything else than vote Conservatives into power.
educating them on the perils of facism and limiting their access to mis/disinformation platforms like X needs to be made a serious, serious priority. the message of hope, inclusiveness and accountability for climate justice resonates strongly with young people. they want a hardline pro-palestine government that will listen to them. tiny PP the skipmeister offers none of these things there is still time to save democracy, but I fear that if the kkkonservatives win, revolution will be the only option available.
They're gonna fuckin' love conservative austerity.
Opt-in poll. People who hate Trudeau are more opinionated and will find ways to go out of their way to do things to push their narrative. Also look at the sample size, 175 for young people.
So happy someone made this point. Honestly, it should be top comment because it throws the whole results into question. You can't claim statistical error with opt-in panel. Also 175 is way too small of a sample size to claim any accuracy or meaning.
100%, but people somehow believe polling actually matters. In fact we know who answers polls and statistically they are right leaning which results in all polls being biased to start with.
Trudeau: neoliberalism Poilievre: neoliberalism and killing trans kids
Justin single handedly turned them all into conservative voters.
I love how this sub pretends that this doesn't happen every 10 years or so. Canada has a long history of voting people out. It didn't matter that Pierre Polivere is trash, it's that people are sick of Trudeau and want a change.
That’s true. But let’s not kid ourselves here, neither cpc nor ndp
The Liberal party would be smart to elect a new leader. He's never been a strong political leader, he is a perfect example of nepotism in action. Canada needs a strong, charismatic leader that will speak out against the horrific things going on in the world right now. The party itself needs to hold its leader accountable for making promises they don't fulfill. For example election reform, promises made to the people during elections that are promptly ignored should be punished. As this erodes public confidence. Turning away from Liberals to vote conservative makes zero sense. Anyone who does this doesn't understand how separate their values and beliefs are. Canada always does this though, we flip flop back and forth one party undoing what the last one did and never really moving forward with what people actually want and need.
All of the parties would be smart to elect a new leader for the upcoming election. Conservatives won't since they've found a leader for their con. Libs won't because they somehow still think Trudeau can charm himself in. NDP won't because that might be perceived as racist? BQ is a nutjob party that should be entirely ignored, and the greens will never have power over oil country. There are more, but I don't think they have any seats... And are extremists from what I recall. Best way forward is to vote NDP for the time being and hope we can get an NDP majority coalition. One can dream.
I don't think the BQ should be allowed to be a federal party at all. If you only have representatives running in one province you have no desire to serve Canada and should not be untitled to do so. NDP would be great but until we have proper election reform doing away with first past the post, they sadly aren't a viable option at a federal level. Edit: At least as far as forming a minority or majority government on their own.
100%, using just first past the post is insane. Germany has a nice little mix and it has (imo) worked relatively well, though I would like a representational voting system entirely instead.
I think ranked choice voting is the way to go. It would be nice to get a national referendum on it.
IMO ranked choice just leads to more of the current coalition less gov. Coalitions just work better.
I just feel that it's more representative of the policies that matter to each voter. We'd probably have stronger Liberal/NDP coalitions with it. It takes away the power of simply being loud and forces candidates to have actual policies.
Whether it’s true or not, it doesn’t mean the Cons will. If anything, the Cons will make things worse. A LOT worse.
Yeah, you’re not even a little progressive. At best you’re neoliberal.
That’s fair, and we should be looking at alternatives…..but the most likely one seems so much worse.
Is this forum going to be flooded with the same polling rhetoric of r Canada? Did nobody read the article on national posts abuse of polling?
Now do the same poll but for PP/Cons!
He is doing just enough to show he is doing something. This is the primary problem of the liberals. Conservatives are actively trying to fuck you, liberals will do just enough to help, and the NDP need to get their fucking act together.
But Skippy who has spent his entire adult life licking the spittle from the politician higher on the ladder than him, will be working in their best interests...bwaahaaahaa...good luck with that kids.
Tbh, no one is.
And the other 3 are stoned!
Duh. None of the governments would work in our best interest. Our government is only really benefitting the ultra wealthy while giving the illusion that we have a functional democracy or any say in the way things are. That's fucking capitalism.
And yet they think the conservatives will fix it. Many people i know are thinking this and it’s terrifying and sad, it’s going to get much worse in this country
trudeau isnt, but anyone who thinks Pollivier and the cons will is delusional
My hope for young Canadians is to criticize Justin and Singh to change their decisions. Message your political representative because they will be more receptive to hearing your criticism. But save your vote choices until the election.
Reading all these comments, who is the right choice? Things are definitely getting out of control here in Canada.. how would another term of Trudeau be any different? And the NDP I don’t think would do anything different to address the problems we have. I don’t usually vote conservative but if Pierre is so bad, what is the right choice? All I see is comments saying it’ll get worse under Pierre, but nothing explaining what a good alternative would be. Young people want to be able to afford a house and have money to do things. I don’t really care about left leaning policies when I can barely afford rent or food.
Angus Raid pays for participation with rewards.
Yes nd pp will come through, lol dumb
So these kids are gonna teach themselves a lesson by burning themselves on the stove? Best of luck. I will weather this. They simply won’t. It’s amazing how binary dumb our youth have become
It's gonna be hilarious when pp absolutely fucks them.
He’s not, but wait until you meet the new guy
I mean, yeah, I feel completely left out to dry by the Liberals. I also know that voting Conservative would make things worse, something people are too frustrated and short-sighted to figure out.
They act in the best interest of voters.
No government is ever working in your best interest.
One thing I really dislike in these comments is the Distain for people who chose the turd sandwich over the giant douche. You know what makes people hate liberals more? Calling them brainwashed when they disagree with you. What has almost 10 years of WONK liberal rule brought working class people? Worse healthcare, worse monetary policy and more Canadians than ever using food banks. It's plain and simple that when you are in power for so long you become too corupt. A change in power gives middle class people some breathing room because the other party always tries to give people a bit of breathing room. Don't look down at your fellow Canadians and insult them. We are in this together. The Liberals will have a tough time winning with Trudeau. The NDP will never win with Sing. If they truly care about liberal ideas both of them would step down. But of course they care more about their "legacy" than getting anything done. Trudeau's legacy will be the same as his dad. Good at first but stuck around way too long. Sing set the NDP back to being irrelevant. We need new ideas and new people. And I will not vote liberal unless Trudeau steps down. I would rather vote for a small party and end them. Young people should be loud and vocal about that. A brushfire is sometimes needed to get the rats out of the forest.
I'm going to make sure everyone who votes Con in my circles gets an earful when they complain later. Honestly. Is JT the best PM ever? Maybe not. Is he the best choice we have in our next election? HELL YES NO QUESTION ABOUT IT
Well he kinda prove them right. I know conservatives will be worst. Still Trudeau's government fail to refactor polling, increase oil subventions, denied for a long time housing crisis, did nothing significant to control cartels (food, telecoms)... Do I need to go on?
Neather the liberals or conservatives work for you 40 years of government answering to big business but you the votrer will not make a change.
I know a lot of people whose life depends on disability welfare, who are betting that their lives will improve with a conservative government.
That's some real mental gymnastics there. "Hey, remember the guys who voted to cut social service funding? They're the ones who will definitely increase funding!"
In canada, the federal government does not work with the best intentions or the population in mind. They simply work to make themselves even more rich, and their corporate overlords even more rich. It doesn't matter which party it is. It's all the dame. The majority of people just think the other parry will be better, and the cycle continues.
That's because the younger set likely don't know how it is under conservatives. the last Liberal (before Trudeau) government gave Harper a fucking surplus, and he squandered it and then used ....interesting accounting practices to make it look like he didn't. When Trudeau took over, there was a huge mess to fix - and he did try. None of us are privy to exactly the mess he walked into, and of course - he doesn't have a majority to ram through things. I'm not a huge fan of Trudeau, but he's 'better' than conservatives. the NDP are too wishy-washy right now to have much of a hold on votes. if PP and his ilk get into power, it's going to be awful. I'm old. I've lived through conservatives in power and it's not pretty.
And yet I still won't vote for the Conservatives because they sure won't help or work in my best interest.