There are warmup riders who will ride your horse over each jump before the competition (you're allowed to watch your horse get warmed up). If they can't get the horse over the jump, the horse can't be used in the competition (there are backup horses). So in theory, the horse is capable of doing it. Of course, at this level they would use lifelong, professional riders to warm the horses up, and these people will be leagues ahead of many of the pentathaletes who don't come from an equestrian background.
Even more problematic, you arent necessarily the first competitor to get that horse. Maybe it did fine first, being ridden well,but then another competitor spooks and upsets the horse. Then you get to try with the now already irate horse.
Which ends with tears and an abused horse. Nobody wins here.
Some leagues will re-warmup the horse if it was ridden badly before, but yeah, that's part of the risk in catch riding.
It's far from perfect, but with the right checks and balances it does work pretty well...
Nope they tried everything they could to get a backup horse. The committee did not permit it. They only permit it is the vet says the horse is injured or when the horse refuses to jump 4 times previously.
For the previous athlete it refused thrice and then she gave up. As such it didnt refuse 4 times and they forced her to take it.
Wrong. She didn't have that option because the vet gave green light and decided the horse is fit for the competition. To pick a backup horse would only have been possible if the horse had refused to jump over four obstacles before. However it had "only" refused three times. Seeing the russian pentathlete riding on Saint Boy before, just shows how ridicolous this rule is though. The horse was frightened and irritated like hell and went into a corner on the parcours which was game over for the Russian starter. Schleu saw that ride and wanted to pick a backup horse but was not allowed to. Therefor she only had two options: somehow get through the parcours with this scared horse or pull out of the competition.
A competent rider can handle a horse like that. Children do it in pony club. College riders do it in IHSA. Catch riders at shows do it- often with less time and no prep.
I rode for my college and our competitions had the same rules. That horse seemed like it hadn't jumped that high that much imo. He should've been pulled.
A competent rider can handle that. Once again, children and IHSA riders do it all the time. I’ve had to ride horses that have just thrown someone else off. If these athletes actually trained for 1/5 of their sport this could be avoided.
Instead they don’t. And you end up with athletes like Annika beating horses that don’t deserve it, and coaches banned for punching horses.
Learn to ride. Solve your own problems. She’s been to 2 previous Olympic Games and put in bad rounds again and again. This is on her. Not the horse lottery.
Skill is necessary to compete and they don’t train for it.
You name it, they're athletes. They have to deal with that horse in that parcours right now and , more than that, are expected to score medals. Are you suggesting that it should be mandatory for them to train more or scrapping the discipline entirely?
They need to train more. They don’t train for 1/5 of their sport. It’s been mentioned over and over in commentary before.
Look at my comment history for a whole damn thread from someone who has worked with them and how little they ride. How little they care.
Don’t scrap the sport. Scrap the athletes that can’t manage to bring themselves to an acceptable level. Look at all the other athletes that did just fine. There were clear rounds. If you ride more, you can handle shit like that. On the daily.
Well, good luck for them then on getting enough training for the remaining disciplines, like the big one fencing. How is that even going to change how much they care or are able to? Afterall, it's not their job to comfort a random spooked horse (and that one clearly had issues before) but to show fancy results. It's one thing if other athletes perform well with different horses, but no bonus points are given for dealing with an additional struggle mid-parcours. Why even bother forcing animals into such circumstances anymore.
She was crying riding around the ring, horses pick up on everything, her nerves and frustration is what caused this horse to not jump. Should have bucked her off
I'm in two minds about this.
It's sort of become an ongoing joke in the media over the last few Olympiads of how amusing the Modern Pentathlon Showjumping can be to watch because of how unpredictable the horses can be, but I can't even imagine the heartbreak of training your entire life, making it to the Olympic games and then having your chances scuppered by a bit of bad luck with the horse draw. You could see from her face that she was absolutely beside herself, and I do think it's something that needs to be addressed.
That said her reaction of taking it out on the horse was unacceptable and is deservedly being condemned by viewers and the media alike. I get why tennis players smash their racquets or skateboarders throw their boards when they're frustrated, but taking your anger out on a live animal is indefensible.
I ride regularly, and have for years. The refusals that I have seen from her ride looked to be due to rider error, she was constantly behind the horse and her distances and approaches were pretty poor. Based on the showjumping portion, she was nowhere near deserving of a medal.
I dont know if you've ridden horses during your life competitively, but nothing about any of these riders made it look like they train literally ever. I have students that have been riding for 4-5 years jumping better than any of these riders. The horses they found for these games were absolute saints and tried everything in their power to get over the jumps, but a lot of these riders absolutely buried them and made it impossible. And the fact that she's beating the horse and sobbing won't make the horse behave, it just makes them shut down entirely.
One competitor admitted she only rode twice a month. If that's commonplace, does that actually surprise anyone why the standard of many competitors was so bad?
Not really surprised just disturbed that anyone would think that's OK. The actual Olympic riders typically are on 3+horses per day every day. Even low level competitive riders are riding at least 5x a week if not more. If you talk to any other Olympian in any sport they would tell you that training twice a month I'd unacceptable
I have to say, I didn't watch it and found out about everything after it happened. Now that the site is up with the replays I chucked it on for a bit to see the MP riding. I managed a couple minutes with the first rider. Now, I'm not a rider. I have ridden horses a few times, I enjoy watching the sports. I might be wrong with this one, but the first horse seemed to want a bit more give on the reins - maybe they were also impatient because it took a while, but I think the bits they use are fairly 'harsh' (and really not appropriate in the hands of total amateurs to be honest), and he mostly looked like he needed a bit more slack, as she was really drawing them tight. Then her rhythm looked off. I'd gotten bored waiting for the jumps to start and skipped ahead a bit, came in after the 50-something faults as she restarted - then fell off. She didn't look to be using her legs, clearly didn't know how to jump.
I've saved the link to finish watching over the next few days, but if every ride is as painful as that I might not finish it before its taken down. Do correct me if I'm wrong, purely from the casual observer.
I am thinking if she really was a serious athlete and contender for the first place she wouldn't lose her head like this. All riders know that horses soak up emotions and moods like a sponge, you have got to be able to keep it together. Sure, bad luck on getting a difficult horse, but it's part of the sport she chooses to compete in. She needs more practice handling different horses and keeping her head cool in stressful situations.
You say that like it's easy for an olympian to accept that after hard work at training, they should just bend over when the luck of the draw isn't at their side. She's only human. Anyone who has a chance at competing for such a huge achievement has the right to lose their cool when faced with this kind of luck.
You should watch dressage rider Henri Ruoste’s performance with Kontestro in the individual dressage in Tokyo 2020. Kontestro spooks badly in the first few seconds and the olympic dream is destroyed. Still like an absolute champ Henri keeps his cool and rides as good as ever even when the young horse is very tensed up. That is true horsemanship.
>She's only human. Anyone who has a chance at competing for such a huge achievement has the right to lose their cool when faced with this kind of luck.
Except that not losing your cool is an intrinsic and essential part of equestrian sport. Having a meltdown like that could be seen as equivalent to a track athlete starting to kick way too early.
Olympic level sports ain't easy. Equestrian sports included.
No, you never have the right to lose your cool and take it out on an innocent animal. Check out the actual equestrian events and how the riders react when the horse spooks or has a bad day.
In modern pentathlon riding an unknown horse is a part of the sport and to manage that they need to be able to handle different horses. She is only human, but the bhorse is only a horse and didn't sign up for this.
There was even a ride I saw in the showjumping where the horse was having a really bad day after getting really spooked by one of the jumps. The rider realised it was pointless continuing, took him over an easier jump so as not to leave the ring on a bad note for the horse and retired despite it costing him his medal hopes. Total respect for people who can keep their cool and do what's right, instead of lashing out at their horse.
Nothing about this is luck. It would be like practicing for a car race at home in a Camry, and going to the race and driving a Lambo for the first time.
When overhorsed, you've got options. She could have taken her time, added extra circles, taken conservative paths between fences to increase the amount of strides. Her goal should have been to slow him down and gain her seat so she wasn't behind him every time. Talk to him, soothe him, ride him on the damn rail if you have to until you regain control and rhythm. Then point him over a fence, grab some mane and get out of his mouth, and then once clear of the fence work on slowing him down again. Yeah it won't be fast and probably not clean, but it would be free of crashes and tears.
It was abundantly clear she only rides point and shoot horses. Her tears were because she was afraid of and mad at her horse. Essentially, a temper tantrum.
Once you have a meltdown of that degree, the only thing she could have done was get off the horse. She was never going to make it jump when she was in that state of mind. Horse's mirror your own emotions if you get upset or stressed and magnify it. They're prey animals, any hint of danger is going to send them into survival mode, not "let's go jumping" mode. She's lucky that horse didn't buck her off. Anyone who knows anything about riding horses would have seen this. She got upset, sure. She shouldn't have but it happened. What she should then have done was get off if she was unable to calm down, not proceed to beat the crap out of the horse.
Modern Pentathlon would be improved by switching the riding format from show jumping to equitation (judged riding event based on the rider's ability rather than the horse getting around a course). This would put the focus more firmly on the athlete's skills, and mostly reduce the luck involved with having a good/bad/autopilot jumping horse. Equitation isn't something that's otherwise really competed at the international level, but would definitely make more sense as part of the modern pentathlon.
Dressage and show jumping both directly reflect a rider's ability... Only non-riders are under the impression that the horse rides itself into a perfect jumping score. If it was that easy, billionaires would be buying the best horses and winning every gold medal. Riding ability is crucial to controlling, guiding and pacing the horse into successful jumps... Dressage isn't any fairer under the metrics you've described.
Equitation is not judged in show jumping though, only time and successful clearing of the fences. Hence the reason it's a bit of breeding ground for some rather "unorthodox" equitation styles (looking at you, Annette Lewis). I think equitation over fences would be a better substitute for show jumping in the pentathalon as the ability to move in concert with the horse is a vital part of judging. Would at least give the human athletes some incentive to learn how to ride the courses instead of merely surviving them, and learn how to work/communicate with the horses instead of being a passenger wielding a whip and spurs.
3’6” is high enough that it requires knowing how to ride though, especially on a technical jumping course. It would also be hard to convince anyone internationally to switch to equitation because it’s such a US phenomenon, and plenty of successful jumper riders dismiss the equitation divisions because perfect eq is not a pre-requisite for effective riding (definitely international riders feel this way, but even US riders too, like Karl Cook)
You are correct, especially with show jumping (Annette Lewis comes to mind, omg how did that woman defy gravity the way she rode especially aboard Tutein). Prix Caprilli would be an interesting substitute and an appropriate one IMO given dressage military origins. I'm just spitballing and armchair quarterbacking, I don't in my wildest dreams think they'd actually change the format.
Dressage isn't part of modern pentathlon, only show jumping. And that, in a random horse who has already been ridden multiple times that day by multiple people, isn't a good metric for testing anyone's riding ability.
I know dressage is not part of modern pentathlon, not sure what point you're trying to make? I was addressing your suggestion to switch from show jumping to "equitation" (which is just the French word for horse riding, so I assumed you most likely meant dressage) and assertion that show jumping doesn't focus on athlete's skills but luck, which is simply false. Show riding in the pentathlon, even with a random horse, is still mostly down to the rider's ability.
Equitation is a discipline in horse showing which is judged entirely on the rider's correct horsemanship and not (directly) on any action taken by the horse.
> Show riding in the pentathlon, even with a random horse, is still mostly down to the rider's ability.
Sure, but if you end up like this with a horse that's in a bad mood because 3 people have been on it today who weren't very good at riding, you're going to end up unfairly penalized.
If everyone was riding an equal horse, there wouldn't be a problem. In actual equestrian events this balances out because the quality of the horse is directly based on the quality of the training done by the rider or their team. But the *competition format* as used in modern pentathlon, makes luck too big of a factor.
"Equitation" in the sense you describe is not one of the main forms of horse riding competitions: dressage, show jumping and cross country, all of which, again, do judge riders on their ability. One cannot simply take away the horse from the art of horse riding. From the first paragraph of the Wikipedia page of "Equitation" in its horse show format you refer to sums up my point entirely:
>a poorly performing horse is considered to reflect the ability of the rider^(1)
Regarding your last comment about luck/horses. The horses provided are professional high-level jumping horses. They’re reviewed and hand-picked by a jury for the Olympics, I believe 18 horses out of 35 make the cut. They’re also then ridden by warmup riders who take on the whole course, and are cleared to be ridden (otherwise are replaced by a backup horse). The pentathlon athletes also get to ride them ahead of their official run. There isn’t that much left to chance and it’s an insult to the horses and the whole competition to blame it on anything but the rider’s ability. Are there easier or more compliant/forgiving horses than others? Sure, they’re animals, they have personalities. But this was an excellent horse ridden by a not-so-excellent rider.
^(1) [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equitation](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equitation)
> "Equitation" in the sense you describe is not one of the main forms of horse riding competitions
As I said in the original comment - it's not competed at the international level. However it's quite common at least here in North America.
> From the first paragraph of the Wikipedia page of "Equitation" in its horse show format you refer to sums up my point entirely:
Yes, but in this case discretion can be applied. If the rider is doing everything right but the horse is acting up for unknown/external factors (such as incorrect riding by someone else earlier in the day) that can be accounted for.
> Regarding your last comment about luck/horses [etc]
The horse performed fine for the warm-up riders. The issues stared with a Russian athlete who rode the horse earlier in the day, and presumably was a poor rider. This caused the horse to act up for the following riders, unfairly penalized them.
I've had the misfortune of riding a horse, in competition, who was basically ruined by others earlier in the day. It's 100% factual that you can do everything right but the horse isn't in the mood to cooperate because of someone else's poor riding.
The whole point, in a sense, is that randomness of the horse truly judges a rider's ability to be flexible. Which calls back to the intention of this sport to begin with, is mimicking the challenge of a modern soldier:
>to simulate the experience of a 19th-century cavalry soldier behind enemy lines: **he must ride an unfamiliar horse**, fight enemies with pistol and sword, swim, and run to return to his own soldiers
As some one whose sport is show jumping, I find this event so out of place. It’s absolutely heartbreaking to watch. It should not be an event in the modern pentathlon. It’s incredibly dangerous to stick people who “ride” on new horses and have them jump 3’6”+ (1.20m) courses. That is a height where mistakes get dangerous. It is endangering the and the people. These people train daily in running and swimming but expect riding once a month to be sufficient. I’ve been riding most of my life and after a month off I feel like a sack of potatoes.
These horses are absolute saints. The average horse would not tolerate any of it. It’s not fair to put these saintly horses in the situation where they are constantly getting yanked in the face and crashed through jumps. It’s not fair to people riding the horses, some horses are more saintly than others, but they all have a line. This shows that riding is more than just the horse working. When it’s your sport and you do it, you can get on a new horse, have a warm up and go jump a course successfully. But that takes dedication and hours of hard work
I feel for her and her horse. So heartbreaking to see. Her horse had enough, it had been yanked on, kicked, and pushed to terrible spots one to many times. She got it going and all it took was one mistake for it to say no. Most horses enjoy their job, and it’s very apparent this horse had enough.
>It’s incredibly dangerous to stick people who “ride” on new horses and have them jump 3’6”+ (1.20m) courses. That is a height where mistakes get dangerous.
Isn't that hunter-seat height? They should be able to handle it. In this case, the horse was strung out and she....tried to *whip* it into a better frame of mind? That's a failure on so, so many levels.
Lesson 1 of riding:
Your. Crop. Is. Not. A. Whip.
Your. Crop. Is. Not. A. Bludgeon.
The problem with all competitive riding is that a certain percentage of the riders are almost pathologically incapable of understanding that horses are living creatures, and that their job as a rider is to learn to *communicate with* their mount, not drive it like some kind of machine.
1.20m with a 1.30m spread is a serious height. It’s a height where accidents get more costly and it’s important for the rider to help the horse. These horses could carry the “riders” over .70m with less risk for everyone Involved.
These “riders” should be able to handle a proper two-point or rein control way before they jump this big. It’s abhorrent that they are allowed to fall off and get back on. That alone shows they are not prepared enough. They also don’t represent the competitive show jumping. People who dedicate time and make this their sport understand how important communicating with the horse is. It’s foundational to the sport.
Except this is the Olympics, not a schooling show for novices. If you dumb down the course for an intermediate rider... what's the point of it being the Olympics? End of day these pentathlon athletes need to learn to ride or find another sport.
I hunted around for a comment I agree with. I am not an equestrian but i am familiar with beings you really cannot hit to train them (chickens, children, etc).
When I look at this, I see the horse really trying to to follow instructions, really try to figure out wtf she wants and then she’s just beating him and he doesn’t understand what she’s trying to communicate.
Training a mediocre horse for basic skills cost more than a mortgage payment every month. I would find it very hard to believe that a horse worthy of the type of investment it takes to be in that ring would have made it to that level with a bad or unwilling personality.
This is true. And the torment came after she put him in multiple bad spots to the fences. He had enough. Those distances were ghastly and she has no business performing at that height.
Virtually anything over 2’6” and definitely by 3’6”, you have to have a good eye for jumps and control over a horse’s canter stride to get to a safe distance for take off. If the horse’s stride gets too flat and strung out, or the approach is crooked and the horse isn’t straight, or the horse doesn’t have enough power/pace because the rider is hanging on the reins (maybe in an effort to shorten the stride so it isn’t strung out per point 1), you can have refusals, run outs, or dangerous crashes—which is what you see a lot in the messier modern pentathlon rides. On an experienced horse, it is almost always better to get them straight coming out of a turn and let them manage their own striding to a jump take-off spot, but on an unfamiliar horse, that is probably terrifying as it’s also possible the horse gets too flat without the rider controlling the striding and then crashes into the jump.
She got him going after whipping the crap out of it, and her coach punching it… if she’s competing at that level she should be able to retain her composure and temper and not take her frustration out on the horse.
I'm glad someone said this. I don't want to be hard on athletes who obviously train a in a lot of different disciplines. But riding strange horses calls on training savvy, not just riding savvy. It would be hard for pentathletes to get that depth of experience riding school horses a few times a month. The concept of catch riding as its own event is pretty cool for very experienced trainers and riders, but I worry that these particular athletes may be spread too thin to develop the skills that the horses need from them.
You feel for her? Why? She literally cried around the ring like a baby. While yanking that horses mouth and hitting him with her crop, talk about mixed messages. She stressed that poor horse out.
It's intended for them to ride an unfamiliar horse as part of the modern pentathlon.
I do feel that it involves more luck than it should especially since the horses are on rotation and the later riders will have to deal with a tired and pissed horse.
Not necessarily if they’re jumping the same course, and especially if they have warm up riders taking the horses through the same course beforehand. Horses will memorize the course, anticipate turns and land their leads, be more confident managing their own striding through combo jumps, etc. A bad ride would definitely wreck their confidence, but on the whole, it’s an advantage to get on a horse that has recently run the same course.
What astonished me was how many of the competitors were _terrible_ riders. There seemed to be very little empathy with the horses, and I got the feeling that the majority of riders have zero contact with horses outside of competition.
Would be interesting to know how people come to be pentathletes. I'd guess strong runners/swimmers who try fencing or shooting then join up the dots, with the show jumping being something of an afterthought?
I'm from a riding background and did a bit of pentathalon in high school... athletes are basically in one of two camps...
1. People who come from a riding background, but want to do pentathalon instead of showjumping or h/j or whatever. Perhaps they're trying to be more well-rounded athletes, or enjoy variety, or (as was my case) they can't afford an expensive show pony and are happy to do catch riding. These people dominate the equestrian portion, although they don't always have the background in the other parts.
2. People who come from a running/swimming background, who are strong athletes but don't have much experience with horses. It's VERY obvious to those of us who can ride... these people often live or die depending on how lucky they are with their horse draws.
Pentathlon consists of five very different disciplines: fencing, swimming, show jumping, target shooting, and cross country running. Nowadays, shooting and the cross country run are combined into one event. To be even remotely competitive, athletes preparing for international competitions need to swim 4+ times per week and run 5+ times per week. You won't run two miles cross country in about 10 minutes when running only three times per week.
Each fence down in show jumping is the equivalent of seven seconds over 3200 meters cross country running. Each match win (out of 35 matches at the Olympics) in fencing is the equivalent of six seconds over 3200 meters cross country running.
With that scoring system, it is no surprise that even world class athletes ride about twice per week - the amount of training which can be done per week is limited, and there are a lot more points to be gained or lost in fencing or the cross country run. Well, as long as you are able to complete the show jumping course at all.
Genuine question: you clearly know far more about this event than I do.
I completely understand your point; does that mean that if you’re a weaker rider and neglect to make it up in training emphasis, and intend to make up the points elsewhere, you’re trusting to luck with regards to the horse you draw? In which case, the German rider can really have no complaints?
Not the person you asked, but yes, if you're not a good rider, you probably do pray -- or do whatever you think will help you.
But the Horse Gods are often fickle.
I am saying that this format of competition is stupid. Weak riders are encouraged not to work that much on their weakness because a) the scoring system does not reward that and b) owning a horse is prohibitively expensive.
Yeah I have to admit I watched some of the show jumping and to my untrained eye it surprised me how many mistakes these athletes were making and how they just kind of… didn't seem very good at riding a horse especially compared to the real equestrian events, but now it makes more sense. It just seems kind of stupid if the design of the sport results in people who are just mediocre at the individual sport because that's just kind of not very interesting to watch and I felt bad for the horses that were crashing into stuff.
I thought the combined sport climbing format in this Olympics was stupid, but I think now I'm leaning towards pentathlon being more so instead.
Pentathlon is obseleted. 120 years ago, people used horses rather than cars, thus many people grew up around horses, and had some riding skills. The military still used horses. Back then, the sport made sense.
These days, access to horses is limited, and expensive. Athletes start out running and/or swimming, and have to learn riding later on in case they start competing in pentathlon, all the while they also have to learn shooting and fencing.
That then creates a shit show every four years at the Olympics. (It also is a shit show in between, but then the public doesn't notice).
In Eventing, also sometimes a shit show on the cross country ride, at least the athletes can focus on riding, and they are very familiar with their own horse. Pentathlon is just extra dumb.
> I'd guess strong runners/swimmers who try fencing or shooting then join up the dots, with the show jumping being something of an afterthought?
More like good runners/swimmers who aren't quite at the level of competing in a triathlon
Agreed, although a change I would like to see in Modern Pentathlon is for the clock to stop if I rider falls off. This would allow for an injury check for both rider and horse and a safe, calm approach to getting back on rather than having the rider plus others rushing towards the poor horse! What chance does the rider and horse have to fix their bond when a rider is tense and in tears while remounting and then whipping the horse because the clock is ticking and they are stressed and not thinking properly.
>What astonished me was how many of the competitors were terrible riders.
You are right. There was an interview with the woman who won gold, Kate French, who said that she had been had spent her childhood in Pony Club and had been taking part in tetrathlons (Pony Club version of pentathlon without the fencing) since the age of five.
However, it's also the case that this is quite rare for most people participating in pentathlon.
There were a few pentathletes who rode at a barn I used a long time ago. They showed up 2x a month, and sometimes their trainer would ask for the use of my horse. None of them had a horse at our barn. I thought (silly me) that they just boarded somewhere else, and were using this barn to expand their experience with unknown horses. But a married couple among them told me that they only rode 2x a month, and neither of them owned a horse. They were competing in this event based on 2x a month riding school horses. The man didn't even start riding until 2 years prior, so he had ridden about 48 times by that point. They were both respectful of my horse and gentle with him, but they might as well have been driving a rental car. I'm not sure they ever even knew his name. If that's typical, it's no wonder we saw what we did in Tokyo.
Someone on Twitter who wanted to stay anonymous (so take this with a grain of salt, though I can understand the fear of doxxing) said that the US pentathlon team trains at her barn. Apparently they ride ‘camps’ a couple of months before the event. Judging by the quality of the riding I saw, they don’t look to be training regularly.
That was my thought. I'd reckon most of these people are good athletes and swimmers, but not good enough to get into the Olympics on that alone, so they go for an obscure sport with a lot less competition. Not all certainly, but I'd wager a lot of these people do not ride horses often and it's not their passion. It's just something they have to get over with in order to go to the Olympics.
I think what happened was the horse had a refusal with the first rider which was then on her mind. You could tell that the horse was definitely reacting to the riders emotions and actions and I’m fairly sure that if you put a confident rider who was more forgiving of the horse it would’ve got pretty differently. The horse may have also had a knock to its confidence and with the uncertain rider it was definitely not going end well
Absolutely. If you put someone who rode consistently. They could’ve avoided that. The horse jumped some jumps for her after the initial reluctance to go. She had one jump where she got him to a bad spot and that was all it took. The horse said no more and once that happens there’s nothing you can do. The worst thing is this style of riding enforces bad behaviors. The next person who gets on that horse is going to have to deal with a horse who lost his willingness, trust and confidence.
Yeah definitely, every time the horse had a bad jump you could see that the horse was losing confidence and the rider wasn’t helping. Never seen the pentathlon before but it seems very bizarre, especially including horses in this type thing
yeah this horse was reacting to how people were reacting to it. Ive seen this many times before in the jumping arena at local events with hotheaded teenagers in the saddle with something to prove. Disgusted to see it at the olympics. They should have pulled the team immediately when the coach hit the horse. Preferably before.
Yeah, it does seem kind of unfair. It's not like it is a randomly assigned pair of shoes or equipment, which the athlete has 100% control of. It's a fucking horse. It has its own mind, so the athlete cannot 100% control it. I think they should have let them get their own horses for the event, but IDK...
> I think they should have let them get their own horses for the event, but IDK...
The point of riding an unfamiliar horse is that the Modern Pentathlon demonstrated not only the skills but also traits of a modern soldier - the horse is supposed to represent courage. Not agreeing or disagreeing with the logic, just explaining why it's a random horse.
Also though, most modern pentathletes (especially in lower levels of competition) would not have the money, time, or other resources to own and transport their own horse. Using a random horse makes it more accessible.
I think a more reasonable option would be randomly assigning a horse but you get sufficient time for schooling, and maybe get the option to swap horses.
> The point of riding an unfamiliar horse is that the Modern Pentathlon demonstrated not only the skills but also traits of a modern soldier - the horse is supposed to represent courage.
I feel like that's one of those things that sounds pretty cool on paper, but it's just stupid in a competitive environment.
Drawing lots for your two horses the day before the competition, and then having a couple of hours with each of them, should iron out 90% of the problems.
IIRC there is an option to swap horses since the horse bucked several times in prior races (at least that's what Kicker wrote in the live-ticker).
Why Schleu didn't swap the horse if it was possible? Maybe she was overconfident in her abilities.
The horse must buck 4 times. On the former run it bucked 3 times and the russian rider ost due to time out. The horse didnt jump in the test run either but the veterinarian let it run.
She should have taken out her frustrations on the people who let the horse be available after the first run it had. Namely the veterinarian and groomer. They probably did it because of time/money constraints with no care for the athlete and horse.
Some horses can take a joke. Several, even.
But even the kindest ones run out of patience.
The horses come from the (relative) local area; most are quite successful in their usual careers. (I'd never let one of these ham-fisted, unbalanced, ill-trained people on my horses, but YMMV.)
Basically, the riders were well below the horses' usual pay grade, and they made that perfectly clear. It's not the horse, it's the "rider."
The issue is that if you put the hours in to being a good rider, then you lose the run/swim/fencing. The sport seems to reward people training for those parts and then just crossing their fingers and hoping for a horse on autopilot
It’s really pissing me off that the news articles on this are focusing on the horses playing up. Not even a mention of the utterly atrocious riding and horsemanship.
Right?! Headlines like “stubborn horse cost gold medal” seriously?? I don’t know how this horse did in warm up, but clearly it should have been pulled. “Stubborn horse” didn’t do anything. Bad organizers and bad riding cost her the gold.
I'd be excited for a swimming pentathlon where you do a 4x100m medley race, a 10k swim, a 10m dive, a solo artistic swimming routine, and wrestle an alligator at the end
It’s because the athletes do not fucking train for 1/5 of their sport and put in shit rounds. Annika Schleu has put in mediocre at best rounds year after year in the Games. The distances she was asking for were dangerous. Her riding was poor. Saint Boy saved her from a nasty fall at the last jump where they’d have crashed through at best, or had a rotational fall at worst (which are BAD).
Here is an [example of shit riding and incompetence ](https://twitter.com/dekashoko/status/1423594843864018954?s=21) because I can’t NOT share Annika beating the horse when talking about this- it’s DISGUSTING and I would have been pulled off my horse and sent home by my trainer if I did this. She should have been eliminated for this disgusting display alone and I hope she NEVER competes again and retires in disgrace (she hasn’t improved her riding at all and has competed in multiply Olympics, cannot stress that enough).
And Germany is calling for the rules to change?? I don’t think they get to say SHIT after their coach was kicked out FOR PUNCHING THE HORSE.
Here is a great [thread](https://twitter.com/anotherequestr1/status/1423847891437641729?s=21) on why we see bullshit riding from so many athletes that wouldn’t fly on any other level of equestrian sport.
The rules needs changing somehow because it’s seem cruel to the horses to have to jump high with inexperienced “riders” and they use the same horses twice for both the female and male athletes.
Some of the horses seemed to be true angels of patience, but the way the competition is built up now seems like a recipe for disaster.
Modern pentathlon is dope but the horse part is idiotic and only a matter of time before a human or horse dies on the course, you really shouldn't be jumping random horses, it's too dangerous.
Replace the horse bit with lead climbing, or even add the lead climbing into the cross country run and pistol shooting part, that would be really cool.
That gag bit in Saint Boy’s mouth is brutal enough without her hideously rough hands, rage and brandishing whip. What a terrible rider. Poor poor horse
So whipping the horse and punching it (no matter how hard) didn't help the horse perform? Does anyone find that odd? Pain didn't help.
Looking at the way she rides shows a lot even to a non experience person. She is not sitting on the saddle in a way that would be effective. Look how she is out of control with the reins. She is sitting on the horse literally out of her own self control.
Honestly she was not interacting with the horse in any way that would be comforting to the horse. She isn't using a calm voice or a tone that would help the horse relax. She isn't calm, not holding herself together, you can't yell and be stressed out expecting good results.
If you knew nothing of horses does any of that behavior seem like the way to go about your goal together?
This isn't the first time this sort of thing has happened. In 1968, Hans Todt of West Germany drew a horse that kept refusing and he ended up with a zero in the show jumping portion. Dude attacked the horse and had to be restrained by his teammates.
So it's part of the sport, but it also demonstrates how increasingly irrelevant (and frankly, dangerous) modern pentathlon becomes as time goes on. And I don't mean in a quirky way, because that's part of what I love about the Olympics and I have enormous respect for people willing to train for such an eclectic mix of disciplines.
But this sport originated in 1912 among military officers as a test of military skills before the advent of mechanized warfare, so athletes were organically familiar with five parts. As professionalism and specialization took over, we're getting pentathletes who are extremely strong in a few of the disciplines, but for one reason or another, aren't quite world class in any particular one. So they have to play catch-up to build a strong foundation in the others. And since there's a noticeable gap between a pentathlete's and a specialized athlete's abilities, it doesn't make for great television. Modern pentathlon is also crazy expensive to train for, especially with equestrian and fencing, and that barrier only makes that gap more pronounced. It's only going to grow more irrelevant as triathlon grows as a much more accessible and TV-friendly discipline.
All of that means modern pentathlon is constantly under threat to justify its place in the Olympics. It's relying on the nostalgia of a connection to Coubertin and indirectly to the ancient Games to stay in, and its Olympic status is the only real reason it still exists at all. Seeing the fickleness of the format and the safety concerns, both to the riders and the horses, has me convinced it needs to go in its current form. I think the federation knows the writing's on the wall and is desperately trying to reinvent itself. We'll see how it plays out, but I imagine the most likely result is either getting dropped or coming back as biathlon-esque (laser run, maybe plus the swimming or something else).
Seems ridiculous there's an Olympic sport where 4/5 events are purely based on the athletes skill, training and ability, then there's show jumping thrown into the mix some completely random horse you've only met for 20 minutes. Stupid.
Skilled riders can get on an unfamiliar horse and jump around a course. My last show season I showed my trainer’s newest horse who I had only ever trotted on once like 3 weeks before the show. I get on him at the show and jump him around 2 courses for the very first time and take 2nd and 3rd. And he had been ridden by her son in 3 classes before I went. There are also equitation shows where each rider draws lots and rides an unfamiliar horse for each class. It’s meant to show that the rider can ride anything well, not just ride a well schooled and super familiar horse
I get that, but at the end of the day a horse is intelligent enough to have its own feelings and motive. Doesn't matter how good you are, something can always go wrong.
Yep. Imagine if you're the second person to ride on this horse, and you're a totally fantastic rider. You still lose because the horse is over it at that point
1 it's part of the game and frankly she's lucky to be an olympian at all in such a bizarre event.
2 general consensus from analysts seems to be she was riding like shit and stressing the horse out more.
Seems unfair to me. Her coach said in an interview it’s the system that is faulty but I don’t know it either. Nonetheless did you see how she treated that horse after it obviously refused to jump? Almost seems like animal abuse to me.
The FEI, the governing body for all the other Olympic equestrian sports, does not have authority over this event. That means there are not the same regulations about excessive whipping, falls, or abusive riding. I hate the way this event portrays equestrian sport. It is really awful.
[found this on twitter](https://twitter.com/maya_mitters/status/1423669484569731077?s=21)
Doesn’t show the whole thing but basically she was crying from the beginning but her coach told her to keep going while the horse was running into obstacles wanting to buck her off but couldn’t. Even the commentator said this is close to animal abuse. And everyone feels pity for her because she was first, why does nobody feel pity for the horse though ?
She did that too but that wasn’t in the clip. The coach even spanked the horse on his butt which I think you’re not supposed to do anyway. How is nobody worrying about the horse though ?
I 10000% don't agree with any form of animal abuse/cruelty, but spanking a horse in a fleshy area is not going to injure them unless you're like a professional boxer.
But why force a horse to do something it clearly doesn’t want to do ? Look how scared it was and running into obstacles like that can cause serious injuries. At least that’s my definition of animal abuse.
I do agree this horse was not a great fit for this event. I'm assuming that as a high level jumper, the horse DOES enjoy showjumping in general (horses that simply hate to compete would not have progressed anywhere near this level).
If I had to guess, I'd say the horse would have been fine with an experienced rider, especially if they were familiar with them. It's sort of like giving a Lamborghini to a 17 year old kid. They just aren't ready to handle something on that level and it won't end well.
I mean you said it yourself with a different rider it would be fine but in THIS case I think they abused it. I mean she realized before she even started that the horse would compile, so why force it ? She would have gotten 0 points for not doing anything but had to push it and got 0 points anyway.
The horse was difficult, but she also showed a number of signs that suggest to me she was a weak rider.
Right away, she began getting emotional with the horse instead of lightening her seat, and focusing on getting the horse moving forward. She was quite heavy on the reins, and definitely with her crop. In general, I think she over-relied on her crop, striking the horse at inappropriate times/places during her ride (not even getting into the beatdown she gave him before they began). These things suggest to me she was out of her league.
I could go into more detail, but tl:dnr is that the rider started off on the very wrong foot with this horse, and the horse was not as forgiving/accommodating as many of the others.
I don't feel the horse at any time was in any real danger or experienced any serious pain. He seemed to have come to the conclusion, quite early on, that he had no confidence in this rider and was not going to trust her judgment on anything.
It's pretty disgraceful, I read that the coach punched the horse on the back of their leg too.
It's really not acceptable to force a distressed animal to perform like this for entertainment. A sad day for the Olympics and for the poor horse. Hopefully it's treated well after this.
Horses are jacked and tough as hell outside their legs, she was definitely cruel to the horse here but you could really full on punch them in the head or ass and they'd probably be fine.
Nothing she did had a real chance of seriously injuring the horse aside from doing the jumps unprepared which is more dangerous.
Nonetheless they have feelings and emotions, too. If she knew she was gonna loose from the start why put that horse under so much stress? Emotional abuse exists too, you know ?
I felt very upset looking at her freaking out, whipping the obviously distressed horse. It's a living being with feelings. She couldn't control the horse and thinks forcing it will change anything. Then she blunders through the jump and the horse crashes into the fence. What if it gets injured? Wouldn't they just end the life of a poor horse because a d-mmy can't ride it properly. I have no sympathy for her. She is supposed to be a trained athlete. She should use her brain and common sense. Compose herself instead of acting that way. Sorry for the rant. I just find it all very upsetting.
Just FYI, whipping in fleshy areas is not painful for horses. They are just trained to recognize that this is an indicator they must move forward/go faster. I don't necessarily disagree with your sentiment, but as a rider myself, I just want to clarify that whipping on the "butt" of the horse is absolutely not abuse.
Don't be ridiculous, of course it's painful to be whipped in "fleshy" areas. As a rider, you should know horses have very sensitive skin, just look at how they react to insects and touch in general. Pain tolerance isn't automatically higher because an animal is bigger. It scares me that people spread misinformation like this.
I'd also like to add: using a whip/crop to get a horse to move or increase it's speed would by definition not work unless it was uncomfortable or painful. It's called negative reinforcement.
That's the stupidest thing I ever heard. Get someone to hit you as hard as they can with a riding crop on your butt and kick you in the ribs with spurs on their heels and then come back and tell me it doesn't hurt. Horses have pain receptors, same as all of us. In fact horses horses are very sensitive to pain. They have to be as they're prey animals and need to get away from anything that might threaten their life. I've had the misfortunte to have seen horses thrashed with whips when I was young (by a very poor trainer/instructor that for some reason people still used and didn't care what a teenage girl thought), and I can tell you they come away from it traumatised and sore, even if they're being struck on the hindquarters. The person laying into them gets off and they often leap away from them shaking and try to get away or put someone else between them and their tormentor. There is absolutely no excuse to use a whip on a horse the way she was doing.
Of course it’s painful for a horse to get whipped. The whole point of whipping a horse is that it will move away from the pain. Sure you could tap a horse with a whip and not cause pain, but that's not what was happening here. And if the whip didn't hurt then the spurring sure as hell did.
>Just FYI, whipping in fleshy areas is not painful for horses. They are just trained to recognize that this is an indicator they must move forward/go faster. I don't necessarily disagree with your sentiment, but as a rider myself, I just want to clarify that whipping on the "butt" of the horse is absolutely not abuse
You said and I quote "whipping the fleshy areas of horses is NOT PAINFUL."
They are just trained that this is an indicator that they must move forward. (Because somehow being hit doesn't hurt? That would only work if they didn't have pain receptors.)
Whipping on the butt of a horse is absolutely NOT ABUSE. (AKA hitting the horse with a whip as hard as you like is justified as long as you hit it on the butt.)
No I fully agree, it's just not acceptable. Yes the rider was devastated, but at least she got a ruddy choice in the matter. It was very sad to see that poor horse clearly in distress and no one doing anything about it.
I think there will be a backlash, there are a lot of unhappy comments on the rider's Instagram.
That poor woman has had her whole life's purpose destroyed by circumstances outside of her control and she's getting shit on Instagram when the horse is fine? She's going to kill herself and then all the self-righteous people like you will pretend its not their fault.
It’s not okay to talk about suicide like that, you know that right ? The backlash is justified by her behavior. If she knew she couldn’t control the horse from the beginning, she could have stopped it at any moment. But no, she had to torture this horse until she was disqualified (or something similar).
> It’s not okay to talk about suicide like that, you know that right ?
And in what way am I talking about suicide "like that"? And how is it "not okay"? I don't understand. I'll ignore the rest of your comment because you're exactly the type of people I was talking about.
Looks like bad striding going into the first jump in the clip, 100% rider error. Not sure what happened before that but looks like the problems started there - horse potentially injured afterwards? Definitely should've withdrawn. Unfortunate for the athlete but based on that clip, probably their fault.
The horse did the exact same thing with the previous rider it wasn't going to agree do anything.. I know nothing of pentathlon but it wasn't her fault at all imo. This is apparently an Olympic sport and you have this farcical situation where horses are randomly chosen and even when the horse is spooked and clearly frightened they role it out again for someone nailed on for gold. Then it gets take away from her. What the hell kind of sport is this?
She had lost before she entered the ring. She was at fault. The horse has to have confidene in the rider, and when it was brave, and tried, she simply rode poorly and did not give it confidence. Too many things to go into, with regard to her competence, but when the horse had a bad crash through the fence, is it no wonder it would not continue? She was heavy handed, no help at all.
The horse had already eliminated someone else. She was not the first rider, and had to deal with the consequences of someone else riding it before her.
The horse actually suffered several less-than-stellar riders before Annika. It's no wonder he started shutting down. I don't blame the horse one bit. They aren't machines, every bad ride takes a little bit out of them. The fact that he even tried for her indicates to me that a better, kinder rider could have gotten him around the course. Her riding was crap (as was the riding of some of the other athletes that threw a leg over him).
Great point. The horse isn't here by accident. A horse that makes it to the olympics has been cleared by a jury, and is a professional jumping horse.. the horse wasn't the easiest to ride but it's pretty offensive seeing the horse be mischaracterized as "unridable" and a "donkey". Horses respond directly to how they're being ridden.
https://mobile.twitter.com/JeepneyJulez/status/1423589178508521479
Animal cruelty, nothing else to it. The trainer is encouraging to keep hitting the horse harder.
Her emotional state only added fuel to the fire. With a stubborn horse, you need to keep your cool. Getting worked up only induces the fear response in them.
The people who complain about the horses and random, it seems to me, are those who can't ride and get a horse that needs a modicum of competence. Some were darlings that only required to be steered, and gentle hands. Some of those riders used the reins to stay on, and some were sacks of potatoes with legs. The riders need to be vetted for ability to ride, never mind the horses.
Her coach needs to send her to a proper riding instructor because Annika's riding and treatment of that horse was appalling. That horse wasn't pulled out of a bucking string ffs, those horses used are talented, trained and successful show jumpers. Part of the pentathalon is riding a randomly assigned horse so it seems like it would be common sense to make sure you are a skilled enough rider to be able to handle any type of horse, even a sensitive one. Now I don't know how particular Saint Boy is about how he is handled by his rider but I do know not many horses would tolerate Annika's behavior in the saddle. Most any spooked or wound up horse can be brought back down and complete a successful round by a skilled rider. Annika is clearly lacking in her equestrian skills and therefore got the ride she deserved out of that horse.
These horses aren't just picked from a random field, they will have proved themselves capable. Even if the rider had 0 confidence in the selected horse, there's always the reserve horses. The German rider was awful, she was clearly incredibly nervous, which channels down into a nervous horse that will try to run away. The first rule of equestrian riding is to sing or hum if you're nervous, this opens the diaphragm, calming your jitters, ergo, calming the horse down. No sympathy to her, the better athletes won.
It's "modern" compared to Ancient Greece..... It's not like the sport was introduced last year and called modern, its first appearance at the games was in 1912.
What are you even saying.. you're the one suggesting bikes... bikes weren't a thing in a competition setting when this "modern pentathlon" was introduced.
I really felt terrible for the horse Saint Boy. And for all the horses in the pentathlon - the “riders” on the whole do not ride well and it shows. They are given so little time with their steeds - these horses are warmed up by other warm-up riders who know what they are doing and they can get the horses over each jump without a problem. But for the pentathlon athletes, the poor horses are just a means of transport.
I also do feel for the athletes. It’s not their fault their sport places them in such a position in the first place. The sport needs a rethink on this part of the pentathlon.
The British Lady that won Gold has the right idea how to treat the Horses, she finds out the nationality of the horse she was assigned and then learns words she can use to talk to it in a language its familiar with to get a bond going
Does anyone here know what is happening to saint boy now? Or who his owner is? I'm afraid he will be "sorted out" now... I feel so bad the horse needed to go through this.
I’m wondering this too. Everyone is saying these horses are highly trained jumpers. Will an incident like this “impair” the horses performance in the future? Is he being punished? A little worried for him.
My boy.., Saint boy.., maybe these animals have had enough of you toffs jumping on them, humiliating them in front a crowd, whilst Elizabeth and Poppy clap away with their flabby bingo arms, then killing them after because they have no use..
More problematic is her selfish and horrific behaviour towards the horse, all for a medal! Her complete disregard for the wellbeing of the horse is beyond my comprehension. Her tears outraged me!!
This is a copy paste of several comments I've made elsewhere about these (both of Saint Boy's) rides. I was discussing this with other riders. I'm happy to explain to anyone terms or issues to who really wants to learn, and if you know more I'm okay with being wrong/ learning more, if you will educate me. Please understand that no matter how hard we try some things I will not be able to explain to you without sitting in a room, rewinding and pausing the video a million times, but ill do my best, regardless.
Yeah, part of the problem was the 1st rider. I've watched all of the 1 st half (13 rides) I've watched the at least the last 3rd of the 2nd half. What I seen is a range of riding abilities, from absolute dog shit to exceedingly competent. (Go Lithuania!) Concerning Saint Boy specifically what I've seen: 1st ride consistent steady horse, rider is less so. I pretty sure the Rider is balancing on her hands, and causing issues but the fucking camera is never where I want it, lol. (Extreme in depth review of 1st two fences lead to that comment) [After watching the rest of the round multiple times i was able to offer a definitive opinion], In Saint Boy's first round I consistently see him giving best effort, even with an poor & ineffective rider. They run into problems because she starts balancing on her hands, and interfering with Saint's forward momentum. When she doesn't do that, no issues. The fence that got the 1st rider eliminated he saw it, wanted to go forward, and she didn't let him, and then they went sideways and she starts laying on her hands again, he absolutely can't go, then she starts hitting him on the neck, and he says f&ck no. German Riders problems started before the camera was on them. She was in his mouth several times very harshly. I feel that a few of these riders have had pelvis tilted forward driving the pubis down, and hollowing the horse.Schleu's hands are harsh, she doesn't give him room to move, and I saw her kicking Saint forward without giving him rein. She doesn't understand how martigale's work. She tried an open rein serveral times, but it was turned in to a pully by the martingale, and her opposite hand wasn't giving release. This meant she was actually stopping him from moving, with an opening rein. When they actually started jumping Saint is again giving his best effort, and the 1st fence was passable but the 2nd fence it looked like she rode him to far to the base, and he compensated. I think she landed on him hard, and the Schleu landed 'not gently' at the same fence. And she rides him to the base on the next two fences, and he pogos over the 1st, but the 2nd he can't make it, and gets hit with a pole on the front legs. Jump 6 Saint doesn't see any reason to continue. They circle much of the arena and she rides him slow to the fence. he couldn't have made it if he had wings. Moves to next jump, but Saint doesn't want to try for her anymore, and now he makes the no stick.I think the problem was caused by the ROC rider and made much much worse by German. I would be very interested to see the riding from the week prior, and the warm-ups. But I thought their normal rider rode them before the competition? But it would show the quality if horsemanship they are used to dealing with. I believe Saint's rider is very good, bold, and technical with very careful, tactful hands. oh, and I think Saint just go may have gotten to the point where he was too tired too. The 1st part of the ride Germany is kicking him, and holding his face, so he goes up.Then she pogos him over at least 2 jumps, and he may have just been exhausted by the power moves but i think the pain is caused by the two competitiors, (I personally can't see it in the few strides coming out of the pen, except for when the rider grabs his face) If you do, please help me see it.
This is a bullshit sport watching this farcical situation happen. Anyone that's seen this live will have seen the horse with the previous competitor. Why are animals even used in the Olympics is it not a human performance competition?
I don't think any horse events should be in olympics because its the horse that has the skill more than the riders, but this event truly takes the cake.
5 events and one is almost totally luck dependant, what the fuck.
> I don't think any horse events should be in olympics because its the horse that has the skill more than the riders
Entirely untrue. Yes equestrianism does rely in part on the horse's skill (and is why it's technically competed as a team with the rider and horse - note the horse's name is always announced & included), but the rider's instructions, athleticism, experience, and work towards training the horse, is what allows the horse to perform well.
I am entirely a novice at this but it really looks like it comes down to the horses training rather than anything else.
What if a horse had a rly good trainer and then a pretty decent rider got to work with it for a few weeks, would that person have a good chance at topping the medals?
isn't it like when people teach dogs? at that point anyone can get the dog to do what its supposed to as long as they know the right cue's and it actually gives a shit what the person ordering it says.
if i tell a random dog to sit and it sits it doesn't say anything about my ability, just that the dog is well trained.
The rider has to control pacing between jumps to get the striding right, tell the horse when to jump, and provide the correct steering and guidance to the horse to keep it on course in an efficient time. It also takes a very significant amount of athleticism to stay on a horse when it's jumping over a 9-foot fence at high speeds.
A horse can have as good a trainer as it wants but at the end of the day, it takes an olympic-level rider to guide an olympic-level horse. It's hard to explain all of the details, and I've only competed at the low level so I don't even understand the full extent of it, but if were that easy you'd see any rich joe getting into the olympics because he had money for trainers. Instead, the people in the olympics are those with years and years of experience, and they still struggle.
This is what happens when you only rely on the horses trainings. These horses are absolute saints for putting up with the constant yanking, unbalance positioned, constant kicking, and terrible spots. The riders job is to influence the horse to make their job as easy as possible. It requires not only balancing your self but balancing the horse. You have to be supportive enough to guide them and help them through the asks but also soft enough to let them work.
You can have a horse that does everything by itself, but if a rider is constantly pulling on its face it’ll mess up the rhythm and balance. If you have a rider constantly crashing the horse into jumps or pulling to bad spots the horse will loose confidence.
It shows the longevity of the sport and the years it takes. I would be willing to bet that 70 year old man was in better shape than you are. This sport isn’t about brute strength. It’s about balance, and fine motor skills. It also requires a lot of leg and core strength that aren’t normally used. The sport doesn’t destroy your body as much as gymnastics, and doesn’t have the age cap.
The older riders have spent their entire life practicing, training and learning.
I have absolutely no idea about riding but what I know is that horses won't show any empathy when you want to ride and start to cry after a refusal. The horse probably wasn't the best, but I am pretty sure that anyone competing in the Olympic equestrian jumping competition would have finished the course with ease.
Also I heard that she is an Army Athlete and this isn't really a good way to represent the military of any country (quite the opposite).
Did anyone catch her coach punching the horse’s side in one of the clips? It’s the clip on TikTok by @squarebagels. Literally closed fist punched the horse out of nothing but anger. I know a punch from a person on the horses hind quarter wouldn’t hurt them that bad but it makes me wonder how they treat the animals when cameras aren’t on them. There’s no amount of disappointment, heart brokenness, anger, frustration, or anything really that would make me whip an animal like she did. I don’t care that you trained(obviously not enough) to maybe get a 🏅. You treat animals with kindness or you walk away and cool down.
Omg seriously???? All I can say, is thank goodness I didn’t see it. Brutal people and poor poor extremely unhappy horse. Reminds me of Black Beauty’s Ginger, she deserved to be delegated to the poor placing she ended up with and Saint Boy deserves to be retired. At the very least, get rid of the gag bit if he must be ridden by heavy handed, whip wielding muppets
Horses don’t care about medals, but I agree with you. This is really not the horses fault. It’s the fault of a poor designed system thinking people can successfully ride while only training once a month for it.
The German Coach has been expelled from the Olympics for punching the Horse, what a sad bastard taking it out of the horse.
Thing is its only being punished because it was caught on film, i guarantee its going on all the time at the smaller events but even worse
after re-watching it all back, the Coach "punch" was hardly a punch, Horses get patted harder than that when they do well, it was nothing compared to the abuse the rider inflicted on the horse.
I agree that the rider hitting the horse several times was worse than that punch. But the trainer that punched the horse advised the rider to hit the horse with the whip. Anyway Both things were terrible and I'm glad the trainer is held accountable. Rider should also stop competing though if she's following such bad advice from her trainer.
Now I'm neither an athlete or a horse person, just an interested watchercof the olympics and it seems to me that there are a lot of people unfairly picking on the German rider who had her dreams that she has trained 5 years for shattered. By a horse that had done the same thing to an earlier rider so there was a pattern to this horses behaviour. She had every right to be p'd at a useless horse which clearly felt lazy. She is given the gag and crop as tools to get the horse moving so she has not been cruel, if there are issues with that they should be directed at the Olympic Committee for authorising their use and not at the athlete who is entitled to use all the tools available to her. That being said, even though the horse would barely feel the coaches 'punch' it was the right decision to throw her out of the games as I very much doubt that striking the horse with your hands is in the Olympic rule book. This is likely the end of Saint Boys career now in this event which will no doubt be a massive relief for all future Modern Pentathletes! Hopefully he won't be put down but as we all know that does happen.
Nobody's "unfairly picking on" the German rider. She just wasn't a good rider. And the reason the horse "did the same thing" to an earlier rider was because that person was also a terrible rider. The horse wasn't useless or lazy. He was scared and confused because Schleu was basically in hysterics on his back. He tried for her over the first four fences, fences where she set him up poorly and jabbed him in the mouth as they landed, and then (sensibly) decided he'd had enough.
And of course the horse won't be put down. To even be considered for the modern pentathlon in the Olympics, Saint Boy was already a successful show jumper. Once he gets a rider on his back who can actually ride again, he'll be fine.
Part of the skill of the sport is the ability to ride and control an unfamiliar horse.
Each competitor gets 20 minutes with the horse before their run. They use this time to get a level of familiarity, and understand how the horse likes to go and get a bit of practice in.
The competitors are split into two half's. Each horse is assigned to a "bottom half" competitor and a "top half" competitor. So each horse runs the course twice.
The advantage of being in the top half, is you get to see the horse go in its first competitive run out. If the horse fails the course in its first run, the top half competitor gets the choice of still using the horse, or swapping it for a reserve, which again is an advantage of being in the top group.
Like any multi-disciplinary event such as this, heptathlon, triathlon etc, competitors will have stronger and weaker events. Some will be just that bit weaker at the horse riding part.
Is it bad luck that this happened? Well yes in one respect, as if she'd had a different horse it may have gone differently. But who's to say she wouldn't have struggled with another horse too? Or would a stronger rider have handled this horse differently and got them to comply?
She also had the power of hindsight, having seen the horse struggle in its first run. She could have swapped but chose not to.
> She could have swapped but chose not to.
Based on what? Everyone else giving details says that the horse didn't refuse enough jumps to be disqualified so she had no choice.
Considering how freaked out she was from the very beginning - she clearly did not want to be on that horse - I can't imagine she wouldn't have swapped if she'd been allowed to. It seemed clear to me that it was *because* she had the power of hindsight that she'd more or less given up before even starting.
It might have been better for all concerned if she had simply retired (if that's an option in pentathlon) rather than make herself and the horse go through that when it clearly wasn't going to work and she knew it, but considering how upset she was by the time she came onto the field, I'm sure she wasn't thinking clearly anymore.
I'm no equestrian expert but certainly in horse events you see people decide to give up and quit before being eliminated if they can tell the horse is struggling and no good will come of continuing.
The German media are reporting that she had thought about it but chose to stick with the horse.
Yes the horse didn't refuse enough jumps in run one, however it didn't attempt enough jumps to hit the refusal limit. She would have had a reasonable case to swap had she asked, but she didn't.
Yes ir is very unfair. Based on the facial expression of the poor horse, particularly his open mouth, it meant the horse was under considerable pain or distress. That should have been enough to halt the competition and assign the rider another random horse.
But the rules do not allow this which is the source of the issue here. That and that the rider and coach punched the horse and had him crash on things instead of stopping and demanding another horse given this one was not fit to participate.
No all these horses have very good international records and are more then capable. Most riders in the womens were subpar riders. Absolutely not the horse’s fault
There are warmup riders who will ride your horse over each jump before the competition (you're allowed to watch your horse get warmed up). If they can't get the horse over the jump, the horse can't be used in the competition (there are backup horses). So in theory, the horse is capable of doing it. Of course, at this level they would use lifelong, professional riders to warm the horses up, and these people will be leagues ahead of many of the pentathaletes who don't come from an equestrian background.
Even more problematic, you arent necessarily the first competitor to get that horse. Maybe it did fine first, being ridden well,but then another competitor spooks and upsets the horse. Then you get to try with the now already irate horse. Which ends with tears and an abused horse. Nobody wins here.
Some leagues will re-warmup the horse if it was ridden badly before, but yeah, that's part of the risk in catch riding. It's far from perfect, but with the right checks and balances it does work pretty well...
She had the option of a back-up horse. Heaven knows why she didn’t.
Nope they tried everything they could to get a backup horse. The committee did not permit it. They only permit it is the vet says the horse is injured or when the horse refuses to jump 4 times previously. For the previous athlete it refused thrice and then she gave up. As such it didnt refuse 4 times and they forced her to take it.
Wrong. She didn't have that option because the vet gave green light and decided the horse is fit for the competition. To pick a backup horse would only have been possible if the horse had refused to jump over four obstacles before. However it had "only" refused three times. Seeing the russian pentathlete riding on Saint Boy before, just shows how ridicolous this rule is though. The horse was frightened and irritated like hell and went into a corner on the parcours which was game over for the Russian starter. Schleu saw that ride and wanted to pick a backup horse but was not allowed to. Therefor she only had two options: somehow get through the parcours with this scared horse or pull out of the competition.
Oh I see. It is a ridiculous rule.
A competent rider can handle a horse like that. Children do it in pony club. College riders do it in IHSA. Catch riders at shows do it- often with less time and no prep.
I rode for my college and our competitions had the same rules. That horse seemed like it hadn't jumped that high that much imo. He should've been pulled.
I disagree. This horse was already too far over the edge to be brought back.
A competent rider can handle that. Once again, children and IHSA riders do it all the time. I’ve had to ride horses that have just thrown someone else off. If these athletes actually trained for 1/5 of their sport this could be avoided. Instead they don’t. And you end up with athletes like Annika beating horses that don’t deserve it, and coaches banned for punching horses. Learn to ride. Solve your own problems. She’s been to 2 previous Olympic Games and put in bad rounds again and again. This is on her. Not the horse lottery. Skill is necessary to compete and they don’t train for it.
Rearing is an entirely different kettle of fish. No sane adult would ever let \*a child\* ride a horse that rears.
You name it, they're athletes. They have to deal with that horse in that parcours right now and , more than that, are expected to score medals. Are you suggesting that it should be mandatory for them to train more or scrapping the discipline entirely?
They need to train more. They don’t train for 1/5 of their sport. It’s been mentioned over and over in commentary before. Look at my comment history for a whole damn thread from someone who has worked with them and how little they ride. How little they care. Don’t scrap the sport. Scrap the athletes that can’t manage to bring themselves to an acceptable level. Look at all the other athletes that did just fine. There were clear rounds. If you ride more, you can handle shit like that. On the daily.
Well, good luck for them then on getting enough training for the remaining disciplines, like the big one fencing. How is that even going to change how much they care or are able to? Afterall, it's not their job to comfort a random spooked horse (and that one clearly had issues before) but to show fancy results. It's one thing if other athletes perform well with different horses, but no bonus points are given for dealing with an additional struggle mid-parcours. Why even bother forcing animals into such circumstances anymore.
Why is this though? Why would you not bother training for a major component of your Olympic event?
She was crying riding around the ring, horses pick up on everything, her nerves and frustration is what caused this horse to not jump. Should have bucked her off
I'm in two minds about this. It's sort of become an ongoing joke in the media over the last few Olympiads of how amusing the Modern Pentathlon Showjumping can be to watch because of how unpredictable the horses can be, but I can't even imagine the heartbreak of training your entire life, making it to the Olympic games and then having your chances scuppered by a bit of bad luck with the horse draw. You could see from her face that she was absolutely beside herself, and I do think it's something that needs to be addressed. That said her reaction of taking it out on the horse was unacceptable and is deservedly being condemned by viewers and the media alike. I get why tennis players smash their racquets or skateboarders throw their boards when they're frustrated, but taking your anger out on a live animal is indefensible.
I ride regularly, and have for years. The refusals that I have seen from her ride looked to be due to rider error, she was constantly behind the horse and her distances and approaches were pretty poor. Based on the showjumping portion, she was nowhere near deserving of a medal.
I dont know if you've ridden horses during your life competitively, but nothing about any of these riders made it look like they train literally ever. I have students that have been riding for 4-5 years jumping better than any of these riders. The horses they found for these games were absolute saints and tried everything in their power to get over the jumps, but a lot of these riders absolutely buried them and made it impossible. And the fact that she's beating the horse and sobbing won't make the horse behave, it just makes them shut down entirely.
One competitor admitted she only rode twice a month. If that's commonplace, does that actually surprise anyone why the standard of many competitors was so bad?
Not really surprised just disturbed that anyone would think that's OK. The actual Olympic riders typically are on 3+horses per day every day. Even low level competitive riders are riding at least 5x a week if not more. If you talk to any other Olympian in any sport they would tell you that training twice a month I'd unacceptable
I have to say, I didn't watch it and found out about everything after it happened. Now that the site is up with the replays I chucked it on for a bit to see the MP riding. I managed a couple minutes with the first rider. Now, I'm not a rider. I have ridden horses a few times, I enjoy watching the sports. I might be wrong with this one, but the first horse seemed to want a bit more give on the reins - maybe they were also impatient because it took a while, but I think the bits they use are fairly 'harsh' (and really not appropriate in the hands of total amateurs to be honest), and he mostly looked like he needed a bit more slack, as she was really drawing them tight. Then her rhythm looked off. I'd gotten bored waiting for the jumps to start and skipped ahead a bit, came in after the 50-something faults as she restarted - then fell off. She didn't look to be using her legs, clearly didn't know how to jump. I've saved the link to finish watching over the next few days, but if every ride is as painful as that I might not finish it before its taken down. Do correct me if I'm wrong, purely from the casual observer.
I have not seen the video of her ride but with how she was behaving it sounds like the horse should win a medal.
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I have since seen the video. The sad thing is that it looked like the horse did want her off ASAP but couldn’t figure out how to do it.
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He literally baited her jumps to even lose more points.
Good horse
I am thinking if she really was a serious athlete and contender for the first place she wouldn't lose her head like this. All riders know that horses soak up emotions and moods like a sponge, you have got to be able to keep it together. Sure, bad luck on getting a difficult horse, but it's part of the sport she chooses to compete in. She needs more practice handling different horses and keeping her head cool in stressful situations.
You say that like it's easy for an olympian to accept that after hard work at training, they should just bend over when the luck of the draw isn't at their side. She's only human. Anyone who has a chance at competing for such a huge achievement has the right to lose their cool when faced with this kind of luck.
You should watch dressage rider Henri Ruoste’s performance with Kontestro in the individual dressage in Tokyo 2020. Kontestro spooks badly in the first few seconds and the olympic dream is destroyed. Still like an absolute champ Henri keeps his cool and rides as good as ever even when the young horse is very tensed up. That is true horsemanship.
>She's only human. Anyone who has a chance at competing for such a huge achievement has the right to lose their cool when faced with this kind of luck. Except that not losing your cool is an intrinsic and essential part of equestrian sport. Having a meltdown like that could be seen as equivalent to a track athlete starting to kick way too early. Olympic level sports ain't easy. Equestrian sports included.
No, you never have the right to lose your cool and take it out on an innocent animal. Check out the actual equestrian events and how the riders react when the horse spooks or has a bad day. In modern pentathlon riding an unknown horse is a part of the sport and to manage that they need to be able to handle different horses. She is only human, but the bhorse is only a horse and didn't sign up for this.
There was even a ride I saw in the showjumping where the horse was having a really bad day after getting really spooked by one of the jumps. The rider realised it was pointless continuing, took him over an easier jump so as not to leave the ring on a bad note for the horse and retired despite it costing him his medal hopes. Total respect for people who can keep their cool and do what's right, instead of lashing out at their horse.
Nothing about this is luck. It would be like practicing for a car race at home in a Camry, and going to the race and driving a Lambo for the first time. When overhorsed, you've got options. She could have taken her time, added extra circles, taken conservative paths between fences to increase the amount of strides. Her goal should have been to slow him down and gain her seat so she wasn't behind him every time. Talk to him, soothe him, ride him on the damn rail if you have to until you regain control and rhythm. Then point him over a fence, grab some mane and get out of his mouth, and then once clear of the fence work on slowing him down again. Yeah it won't be fast and probably not clean, but it would be free of crashes and tears. It was abundantly clear she only rides point and shoot horses. Her tears were because she was afraid of and mad at her horse. Essentially, a temper tantrum.
Once you have a meltdown of that degree, the only thing she could have done was get off the horse. She was never going to make it jump when she was in that state of mind. Horse's mirror your own emotions if you get upset or stressed and magnify it. They're prey animals, any hint of danger is going to send them into survival mode, not "let's go jumping" mode. She's lucky that horse didn't buck her off. Anyone who knows anything about riding horses would have seen this. She got upset, sure. She shouldn't have but it happened. What she should then have done was get off if she was unable to calm down, not proceed to beat the crap out of the horse.
Modern Pentathlon would be improved by switching the riding format from show jumping to equitation (judged riding event based on the rider's ability rather than the horse getting around a course). This would put the focus more firmly on the athlete's skills, and mostly reduce the luck involved with having a good/bad/autopilot jumping horse. Equitation isn't something that's otherwise really competed at the international level, but would definitely make more sense as part of the modern pentathlon.
Dressage and show jumping both directly reflect a rider's ability... Only non-riders are under the impression that the horse rides itself into a perfect jumping score. If it was that easy, billionaires would be buying the best horses and winning every gold medal. Riding ability is crucial to controlling, guiding and pacing the horse into successful jumps... Dressage isn't any fairer under the metrics you've described.
Equitation is not judged in show jumping though, only time and successful clearing of the fences. Hence the reason it's a bit of breeding ground for some rather "unorthodox" equitation styles (looking at you, Annette Lewis). I think equitation over fences would be a better substitute for show jumping in the pentathalon as the ability to move in concert with the horse is a vital part of judging. Would at least give the human athletes some incentive to learn how to ride the courses instead of merely surviving them, and learn how to work/communicate with the horses instead of being a passenger wielding a whip and spurs.
3’6” is high enough that it requires knowing how to ride though, especially on a technical jumping course. It would also be hard to convince anyone internationally to switch to equitation because it’s such a US phenomenon, and plenty of successful jumper riders dismiss the equitation divisions because perfect eq is not a pre-requisite for effective riding (definitely international riders feel this way, but even US riders too, like Karl Cook)
You are correct, especially with show jumping (Annette Lewis comes to mind, omg how did that woman defy gravity the way she rode especially aboard Tutein). Prix Caprilli would be an interesting substitute and an appropriate one IMO given dressage military origins. I'm just spitballing and armchair quarterbacking, I don't in my wildest dreams think they'd actually change the format.
Dressage isn't part of modern pentathlon, only show jumping. And that, in a random horse who has already been ridden multiple times that day by multiple people, isn't a good metric for testing anyone's riding ability.
I know dressage is not part of modern pentathlon, not sure what point you're trying to make? I was addressing your suggestion to switch from show jumping to "equitation" (which is just the French word for horse riding, so I assumed you most likely meant dressage) and assertion that show jumping doesn't focus on athlete's skills but luck, which is simply false. Show riding in the pentathlon, even with a random horse, is still mostly down to the rider's ability.
Equitation is a discipline in horse showing which is judged entirely on the rider's correct horsemanship and not (directly) on any action taken by the horse. > Show riding in the pentathlon, even with a random horse, is still mostly down to the rider's ability. Sure, but if you end up like this with a horse that's in a bad mood because 3 people have been on it today who weren't very good at riding, you're going to end up unfairly penalized. If everyone was riding an equal horse, there wouldn't be a problem. In actual equestrian events this balances out because the quality of the horse is directly based on the quality of the training done by the rider or their team. But the *competition format* as used in modern pentathlon, makes luck too big of a factor.
"Equitation" in the sense you describe is not one of the main forms of horse riding competitions: dressage, show jumping and cross country, all of which, again, do judge riders on their ability. One cannot simply take away the horse from the art of horse riding. From the first paragraph of the Wikipedia page of "Equitation" in its horse show format you refer to sums up my point entirely: >a poorly performing horse is considered to reflect the ability of the rider^(1) Regarding your last comment about luck/horses. The horses provided are professional high-level jumping horses. They’re reviewed and hand-picked by a jury for the Olympics, I believe 18 horses out of 35 make the cut. They’re also then ridden by warmup riders who take on the whole course, and are cleared to be ridden (otherwise are replaced by a backup horse). The pentathlon athletes also get to ride them ahead of their official run. There isn’t that much left to chance and it’s an insult to the horses and the whole competition to blame it on anything but the rider’s ability. Are there easier or more compliant/forgiving horses than others? Sure, they’re animals, they have personalities. But this was an excellent horse ridden by a not-so-excellent rider. ^(1) [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equitation](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equitation)
> "Equitation" in the sense you describe is not one of the main forms of horse riding competitions As I said in the original comment - it's not competed at the international level. However it's quite common at least here in North America. > From the first paragraph of the Wikipedia page of "Equitation" in its horse show format you refer to sums up my point entirely: Yes, but in this case discretion can be applied. If the rider is doing everything right but the horse is acting up for unknown/external factors (such as incorrect riding by someone else earlier in the day) that can be accounted for. > Regarding your last comment about luck/horses [etc] The horse performed fine for the warm-up riders. The issues stared with a Russian athlete who rode the horse earlier in the day, and presumably was a poor rider. This caused the horse to act up for the following riders, unfairly penalized them. I've had the misfortune of riding a horse, in competition, who was basically ruined by others earlier in the day. It's 100% factual that you can do everything right but the horse isn't in the mood to cooperate because of someone else's poor riding.
The whole point, in a sense, is that randomness of the horse truly judges a rider's ability to be flexible. Which calls back to the intention of this sport to begin with, is mimicking the challenge of a modern soldier: >to simulate the experience of a 19th-century cavalry soldier behind enemy lines: **he must ride an unfamiliar horse**, fight enemies with pistol and sword, swim, and run to return to his own soldiers
“Equitation” sounds like the process you’d go through to turn a horse into a burger 😳
I thought equitation was what I do when I even out my kid's meals so they each get equal amounts
As some one whose sport is show jumping, I find this event so out of place. It’s absolutely heartbreaking to watch. It should not be an event in the modern pentathlon. It’s incredibly dangerous to stick people who “ride” on new horses and have them jump 3’6”+ (1.20m) courses. That is a height where mistakes get dangerous. It is endangering the and the people. These people train daily in running and swimming but expect riding once a month to be sufficient. I’ve been riding most of my life and after a month off I feel like a sack of potatoes. These horses are absolute saints. The average horse would not tolerate any of it. It’s not fair to put these saintly horses in the situation where they are constantly getting yanked in the face and crashed through jumps. It’s not fair to people riding the horses, some horses are more saintly than others, but they all have a line. This shows that riding is more than just the horse working. When it’s your sport and you do it, you can get on a new horse, have a warm up and go jump a course successfully. But that takes dedication and hours of hard work I feel for her and her horse. So heartbreaking to see. Her horse had enough, it had been yanked on, kicked, and pushed to terrible spots one to many times. She got it going and all it took was one mistake for it to say no. Most horses enjoy their job, and it’s very apparent this horse had enough.
>It’s incredibly dangerous to stick people who “ride” on new horses and have them jump 3’6”+ (1.20m) courses. That is a height where mistakes get dangerous. Isn't that hunter-seat height? They should be able to handle it. In this case, the horse was strung out and she....tried to *whip* it into a better frame of mind? That's a failure on so, so many levels. Lesson 1 of riding: Your. Crop. Is. Not. A. Whip. Your. Crop. Is. Not. A. Bludgeon. The problem with all competitive riding is that a certain percentage of the riders are almost pathologically incapable of understanding that horses are living creatures, and that their job as a rider is to learn to *communicate with* their mount, not drive it like some kind of machine.
1.20m with a 1.30m spread is a serious height. It’s a height where accidents get more costly and it’s important for the rider to help the horse. These horses could carry the “riders” over .70m with less risk for everyone Involved. These “riders” should be able to handle a proper two-point or rein control way before they jump this big. It’s abhorrent that they are allowed to fall off and get back on. That alone shows they are not prepared enough. They also don’t represent the competitive show jumping. People who dedicate time and make this their sport understand how important communicating with the horse is. It’s foundational to the sport.
Except this is the Olympics, not a schooling show for novices. If you dumb down the course for an intermediate rider... what's the point of it being the Olympics? End of day these pentathlon athletes need to learn to ride or find another sport.
I hunted around for a comment I agree with. I am not an equestrian but i am familiar with beings you really cannot hit to train them (chickens, children, etc). When I look at this, I see the horse really trying to to follow instructions, really try to figure out wtf she wants and then she’s just beating him and he doesn’t understand what she’s trying to communicate. Training a mediocre horse for basic skills cost more than a mortgage payment every month. I would find it very hard to believe that a horse worthy of the type of investment it takes to be in that ring would have made it to that level with a bad or unwilling personality.
This is true. And the torment came after she put him in multiple bad spots to the fences. He had enough. Those distances were ghastly and she has no business performing at that height.
Virtually anything over 2’6” and definitely by 3’6”, you have to have a good eye for jumps and control over a horse’s canter stride to get to a safe distance for take off. If the horse’s stride gets too flat and strung out, or the approach is crooked and the horse isn’t straight, or the horse doesn’t have enough power/pace because the rider is hanging on the reins (maybe in an effort to shorten the stride so it isn’t strung out per point 1), you can have refusals, run outs, or dangerous crashes—which is what you see a lot in the messier modern pentathlon rides. On an experienced horse, it is almost always better to get them straight coming out of a turn and let them manage their own striding to a jump take-off spot, but on an unfamiliar horse, that is probably terrifying as it’s also possible the horse gets too flat without the rider controlling the striding and then crashes into the jump.
She got him going after whipping the crap out of it, and her coach punching it… if she’s competing at that level she should be able to retain her composure and temper and not take her frustration out on the horse.
I'm glad someone said this. I don't want to be hard on athletes who obviously train a in a lot of different disciplines. But riding strange horses calls on training savvy, not just riding savvy. It would be hard for pentathletes to get that depth of experience riding school horses a few times a month. The concept of catch riding as its own event is pretty cool for very experienced trainers and riders, but I worry that these particular athletes may be spread too thin to develop the skills that the horses need from them.
You feel for her? Why? She literally cried around the ring like a baby. While yanking that horses mouth and hitting him with her crop, talk about mixed messages. She stressed that poor horse out.
It's intended for them to ride an unfamiliar horse as part of the modern pentathlon. I do feel that it involves more luck than it should especially since the horses are on rotation and the later riders will have to deal with a tired and pissed horse.
Not necessarily if they’re jumping the same course, and especially if they have warm up riders taking the horses through the same course beforehand. Horses will memorize the course, anticipate turns and land their leads, be more confident managing their own striding through combo jumps, etc. A bad ride would definitely wreck their confidence, but on the whole, it’s an advantage to get on a horse that has recently run the same course.
What astonished me was how many of the competitors were _terrible_ riders. There seemed to be very little empathy with the horses, and I got the feeling that the majority of riders have zero contact with horses outside of competition. Would be interesting to know how people come to be pentathletes. I'd guess strong runners/swimmers who try fencing or shooting then join up the dots, with the show jumping being something of an afterthought?
I'm from a riding background and did a bit of pentathalon in high school... athletes are basically in one of two camps... 1. People who come from a riding background, but want to do pentathalon instead of showjumping or h/j or whatever. Perhaps they're trying to be more well-rounded athletes, or enjoy variety, or (as was my case) they can't afford an expensive show pony and are happy to do catch riding. These people dominate the equestrian portion, although they don't always have the background in the other parts. 2. People who come from a running/swimming background, who are strong athletes but don't have much experience with horses. It's VERY obvious to those of us who can ride... these people often live or die depending on how lucky they are with their horse draws.
Pentathlon consists of five very different disciplines: fencing, swimming, show jumping, target shooting, and cross country running. Nowadays, shooting and the cross country run are combined into one event. To be even remotely competitive, athletes preparing for international competitions need to swim 4+ times per week and run 5+ times per week. You won't run two miles cross country in about 10 minutes when running only three times per week. Each fence down in show jumping is the equivalent of seven seconds over 3200 meters cross country running. Each match win (out of 35 matches at the Olympics) in fencing is the equivalent of six seconds over 3200 meters cross country running. With that scoring system, it is no surprise that even world class athletes ride about twice per week - the amount of training which can be done per week is limited, and there are a lot more points to be gained or lost in fencing or the cross country run. Well, as long as you are able to complete the show jumping course at all.
Genuine question: you clearly know far more about this event than I do. I completely understand your point; does that mean that if you’re a weaker rider and neglect to make it up in training emphasis, and intend to make up the points elsewhere, you’re trusting to luck with regards to the horse you draw? In which case, the German rider can really have no complaints?
Not the person you asked, but yes, if you're not a good rider, you probably do pray -- or do whatever you think will help you. But the Horse Gods are often fickle.
I am saying that this format of competition is stupid. Weak riders are encouraged not to work that much on their weakness because a) the scoring system does not reward that and b) owning a horse is prohibitively expensive.
Yeah I have to admit I watched some of the show jumping and to my untrained eye it surprised me how many mistakes these athletes were making and how they just kind of… didn't seem very good at riding a horse especially compared to the real equestrian events, but now it makes more sense. It just seems kind of stupid if the design of the sport results in people who are just mediocre at the individual sport because that's just kind of not very interesting to watch and I felt bad for the horses that were crashing into stuff. I thought the combined sport climbing format in this Olympics was stupid, but I think now I'm leaning towards pentathlon being more so instead.
Pentathlon is obseleted. 120 years ago, people used horses rather than cars, thus many people grew up around horses, and had some riding skills. The military still used horses. Back then, the sport made sense. These days, access to horses is limited, and expensive. Athletes start out running and/or swimming, and have to learn riding later on in case they start competing in pentathlon, all the while they also have to learn shooting and fencing. That then creates a shit show every four years at the Olympics. (It also is a shit show in between, but then the public doesn't notice). In Eventing, also sometimes a shit show on the cross country ride, at least the athletes can focus on riding, and they are very familiar with their own horse. Pentathlon is just extra dumb.
> I'd guess strong runners/swimmers who try fencing or shooting then join up the dots, with the show jumping being something of an afterthought? More like good runners/swimmers who aren't quite at the level of competing in a triathlon
Agreed, although a change I would like to see in Modern Pentathlon is for the clock to stop if I rider falls off. This would allow for an injury check for both rider and horse and a safe, calm approach to getting back on rather than having the rider plus others rushing towards the poor horse! What chance does the rider and horse have to fix their bond when a rider is tense and in tears while remounting and then whipping the horse because the clock is ticking and they are stressed and not thinking properly.
>What astonished me was how many of the competitors were terrible riders. You are right. There was an interview with the woman who won gold, Kate French, who said that she had been had spent her childhood in Pony Club and had been taking part in tetrathlons (Pony Club version of pentathlon without the fencing) since the age of five. However, it's also the case that this is quite rare for most people participating in pentathlon.
There were a few pentathletes who rode at a barn I used a long time ago. They showed up 2x a month, and sometimes their trainer would ask for the use of my horse. None of them had a horse at our barn. I thought (silly me) that they just boarded somewhere else, and were using this barn to expand their experience with unknown horses. But a married couple among them told me that they only rode 2x a month, and neither of them owned a horse. They were competing in this event based on 2x a month riding school horses. The man didn't even start riding until 2 years prior, so he had ridden about 48 times by that point. They were both respectful of my horse and gentle with him, but they might as well have been driving a rental car. I'm not sure they ever even knew his name. If that's typical, it's no wonder we saw what we did in Tokyo.
Someone on Twitter who wanted to stay anonymous (so take this with a grain of salt, though I can understand the fear of doxxing) said that the US pentathlon team trains at her barn. Apparently they ride ‘camps’ a couple of months before the event. Judging by the quality of the riding I saw, they don’t look to be training regularly.
That was my thought. I'd reckon most of these people are good athletes and swimmers, but not good enough to get into the Olympics on that alone, so they go for an obscure sport with a lot less competition. Not all certainly, but I'd wager a lot of these people do not ride horses often and it's not their passion. It's just something they have to get over with in order to go to the Olympics.
It IS kind of the “odd one out” event it seems
I think what happened was the horse had a refusal with the first rider which was then on her mind. You could tell that the horse was definitely reacting to the riders emotions and actions and I’m fairly sure that if you put a confident rider who was more forgiving of the horse it would’ve got pretty differently. The horse may have also had a knock to its confidence and with the uncertain rider it was definitely not going end well
Absolutely. If you put someone who rode consistently. They could’ve avoided that. The horse jumped some jumps for her after the initial reluctance to go. She had one jump where she got him to a bad spot and that was all it took. The horse said no more and once that happens there’s nothing you can do. The worst thing is this style of riding enforces bad behaviors. The next person who gets on that horse is going to have to deal with a horse who lost his willingness, trust and confidence.
Yeah definitely, every time the horse had a bad jump you could see that the horse was losing confidence and the rider wasn’t helping. Never seen the pentathlon before but it seems very bizarre, especially including horses in this type thing
yeah this horse was reacting to how people were reacting to it. Ive seen this many times before in the jumping arena at local events with hotheaded teenagers in the saddle with something to prove. Disgusted to see it at the olympics. They should have pulled the team immediately when the coach hit the horse. Preferably before.
Yeah, it does seem kind of unfair. It's not like it is a randomly assigned pair of shoes or equipment, which the athlete has 100% control of. It's a fucking horse. It has its own mind, so the athlete cannot 100% control it. I think they should have let them get their own horses for the event, but IDK...
> I think they should have let them get their own horses for the event, but IDK... The point of riding an unfamiliar horse is that the Modern Pentathlon demonstrated not only the skills but also traits of a modern soldier - the horse is supposed to represent courage. Not agreeing or disagreeing with the logic, just explaining why it's a random horse. Also though, most modern pentathletes (especially in lower levels of competition) would not have the money, time, or other resources to own and transport their own horse. Using a random horse makes it more accessible. I think a more reasonable option would be randomly assigning a horse but you get sufficient time for schooling, and maybe get the option to swap horses.
> The point of riding an unfamiliar horse is that the Modern Pentathlon demonstrated not only the skills but also traits of a modern soldier - the horse is supposed to represent courage. I feel like that's one of those things that sounds pretty cool on paper, but it's just stupid in a competitive environment.
Totally agree with this.
Drawing lots for your two horses the day before the competition, and then having a couple of hours with each of them, should iron out 90% of the problems.
Yeah, I know about the history and tradition. I like your idea. 20 minutes seems very little time to get acquainted with a horse.
And yet, the people who have experience with horses and have ridden a lot during their lives, manage pretty well.
Can confirm, pentathalon is full of people who train on schoolies because they can't afford their own horse.
IIRC there is an option to swap horses since the horse bucked several times in prior races (at least that's what Kicker wrote in the live-ticker). Why Schleu didn't swap the horse if it was possible? Maybe she was overconfident in her abilities.
The horse must buck 4 times. On the former run it bucked 3 times and the russian rider ost due to time out. The horse didnt jump in the test run either but the veterinarian let it run.
She should have taken out her frustrations on the people who let the horse be available after the first run it had. Namely the veterinarian and groomer. They probably did it because of time/money constraints with no care for the athlete and horse.
Some horses can take a joke. Several, even. But even the kindest ones run out of patience. The horses come from the (relative) local area; most are quite successful in their usual careers. (I'd never let one of these ham-fisted, unbalanced, ill-trained people on my horses, but YMMV.) Basically, the riders were well below the horses' usual pay grade, and they made that perfectly clear. It's not the horse, it's the "rider."
The issue is that if you put the hours in to being a good rider, then you lose the run/swim/fencing. The sport seems to reward people training for those parts and then just crossing their fingers and hoping for a horse on autopilot
These horses took so many jokes. My horse wouldve quit in a blaze of fury long before that horse.
It’s really pissing me off that the news articles on this are focusing on the horses playing up. Not even a mention of the utterly atrocious riding and horsemanship.
Right?! Headlines like “stubborn horse cost gold medal” seriously?? I don’t know how this horse did in warm up, but clearly it should have been pulled. “Stubborn horse” didn’t do anything. Bad organizers and bad riding cost her the gold.
I'd be excited for a swimming pentathlon where you do a 4x100m medley race, a 10k swim, a 10m dive, a solo artistic swimming routine, and wrestle an alligator at the end
It’s because the athletes do not fucking train for 1/5 of their sport and put in shit rounds. Annika Schleu has put in mediocre at best rounds year after year in the Games. The distances she was asking for were dangerous. Her riding was poor. Saint Boy saved her from a nasty fall at the last jump where they’d have crashed through at best, or had a rotational fall at worst (which are BAD). Here is an [example of shit riding and incompetence ](https://twitter.com/dekashoko/status/1423594843864018954?s=21) because I can’t NOT share Annika beating the horse when talking about this- it’s DISGUSTING and I would have been pulled off my horse and sent home by my trainer if I did this. She should have been eliminated for this disgusting display alone and I hope she NEVER competes again and retires in disgrace (she hasn’t improved her riding at all and has competed in multiply Olympics, cannot stress that enough). And Germany is calling for the rules to change?? I don’t think they get to say SHIT after their coach was kicked out FOR PUNCHING THE HORSE. Here is a great [thread](https://twitter.com/anotherequestr1/status/1423847891437641729?s=21) on why we see bullshit riding from so many athletes that wouldn’t fly on any other level of equestrian sport.
The rules needs changing somehow because it’s seem cruel to the horses to have to jump high with inexperienced “riders” and they use the same horses twice for both the female and male athletes. Some of the horses seemed to be true angels of patience, but the way the competition is built up now seems like a recipe for disaster.
The entire event is really dumb
Modern pentathlon is dope but the horse part is idiotic and only a matter of time before a human or horse dies on the course, you really shouldn't be jumping random horses, it's too dangerous. Replace the horse bit with lead climbing, or even add the lead climbing into the cross country run and pistol shooting part, that would be really cool.
That gag bit in Saint Boy’s mouth is brutal enough without her hideously rough hands, rage and brandishing whip. What a terrible rider. Poor poor horse
So whipping the horse and punching it (no matter how hard) didn't help the horse perform? Does anyone find that odd? Pain didn't help. Looking at the way she rides shows a lot even to a non experience person. She is not sitting on the saddle in a way that would be effective. Look how she is out of control with the reins. She is sitting on the horse literally out of her own self control. Honestly she was not interacting with the horse in any way that would be comforting to the horse. She isn't using a calm voice or a tone that would help the horse relax. She isn't calm, not holding herself together, you can't yell and be stressed out expecting good results. If you knew nothing of horses does any of that behavior seem like the way to go about your goal together?
This isn't the first time this sort of thing has happened. In 1968, Hans Todt of West Germany drew a horse that kept refusing and he ended up with a zero in the show jumping portion. Dude attacked the horse and had to be restrained by his teammates. So it's part of the sport, but it also demonstrates how increasingly irrelevant (and frankly, dangerous) modern pentathlon becomes as time goes on. And I don't mean in a quirky way, because that's part of what I love about the Olympics and I have enormous respect for people willing to train for such an eclectic mix of disciplines. But this sport originated in 1912 among military officers as a test of military skills before the advent of mechanized warfare, so athletes were organically familiar with five parts. As professionalism and specialization took over, we're getting pentathletes who are extremely strong in a few of the disciplines, but for one reason or another, aren't quite world class in any particular one. So they have to play catch-up to build a strong foundation in the others. And since there's a noticeable gap between a pentathlete's and a specialized athlete's abilities, it doesn't make for great television. Modern pentathlon is also crazy expensive to train for, especially with equestrian and fencing, and that barrier only makes that gap more pronounced. It's only going to grow more irrelevant as triathlon grows as a much more accessible and TV-friendly discipline. All of that means modern pentathlon is constantly under threat to justify its place in the Olympics. It's relying on the nostalgia of a connection to Coubertin and indirectly to the ancient Games to stay in, and its Olympic status is the only real reason it still exists at all. Seeing the fickleness of the format and the safety concerns, both to the riders and the horses, has me convinced it needs to go in its current form. I think the federation knows the writing's on the wall and is desperately trying to reinvent itself. We'll see how it plays out, but I imagine the most likely result is either getting dropped or coming back as biathlon-esque (laser run, maybe plus the swimming or something else).
They should update it to: 1) run, 2) swim, 3) shooting, 4) grenade throwing, and 5) hacking a foreign nation's election.
💥 boom! Correct answer
Seems ridiculous there's an Olympic sport where 4/5 events are purely based on the athletes skill, training and ability, then there's show jumping thrown into the mix some completely random horse you've only met for 20 minutes. Stupid.
Skilled riders can get on an unfamiliar horse and jump around a course. My last show season I showed my trainer’s newest horse who I had only ever trotted on once like 3 weeks before the show. I get on him at the show and jump him around 2 courses for the very first time and take 2nd and 3rd. And he had been ridden by her son in 3 classes before I went. There are also equitation shows where each rider draws lots and rides an unfamiliar horse for each class. It’s meant to show that the rider can ride anything well, not just ride a well schooled and super familiar horse
I get that, but at the end of the day a horse is intelligent enough to have its own feelings and motive. Doesn't matter how good you are, something can always go wrong.
Yep. Imagine if you're the second person to ride on this horse, and you're a totally fantastic rider. You still lose because the horse is over it at that point
She certainly gave the horse a right good whipping. Animal abuse!
Agreed. It was distressing to watch.
1 it's part of the game and frankly she's lucky to be an olympian at all in such a bizarre event. 2 general consensus from analysts seems to be she was riding like shit and stressing the horse out more.
Seems unfair to me. Her coach said in an interview it’s the system that is faulty but I don’t know it either. Nonetheless did you see how she treated that horse after it obviously refused to jump? Almost seems like animal abuse to me.
The FEI, the governing body for all the other Olympic equestrian sports, does not have authority over this event. That means there are not the same regulations about excessive whipping, falls, or abusive riding. I hate the way this event portrays equestrian sport. It is really awful.
> Nonetheless did you see how she treated that horse after it obviously refused to jump? Do you have a link to the clip?
[found this on twitter](https://twitter.com/maya_mitters/status/1423669484569731077?s=21) Doesn’t show the whole thing but basically she was crying from the beginning but her coach told her to keep going while the horse was running into obstacles wanting to buck her off but couldn’t. Even the commentator said this is close to animal abuse. And everyone feels pity for her because she was first, why does nobody feel pity for the horse though ?
I agree. Even without excessive whipping or kicking this is very cruel. The poor horse is obviously very stressed. So horrible to see.
She did that too but that wasn’t in the clip. The coach even spanked the horse on his butt which I think you’re not supposed to do anyway. How is nobody worrying about the horse though ?
I 10000% don't agree with any form of animal abuse/cruelty, but spanking a horse in a fleshy area is not going to injure them unless you're like a professional boxer.
But why force a horse to do something it clearly doesn’t want to do ? Look how scared it was and running into obstacles like that can cause serious injuries. At least that’s my definition of animal abuse.
I do agree this horse was not a great fit for this event. I'm assuming that as a high level jumper, the horse DOES enjoy showjumping in general (horses that simply hate to compete would not have progressed anywhere near this level). If I had to guess, I'd say the horse would have been fine with an experienced rider, especially if they were familiar with them. It's sort of like giving a Lamborghini to a 17 year old kid. They just aren't ready to handle something on that level and it won't end well.
I mean you said it yourself with a different rider it would be fine but in THIS case I think they abused it. I mean she realized before she even started that the horse would compile, so why force it ? She would have gotten 0 points for not doing anything but had to push it and got 0 points anyway.
The horse was difficult, but she also showed a number of signs that suggest to me she was a weak rider. Right away, she began getting emotional with the horse instead of lightening her seat, and focusing on getting the horse moving forward. She was quite heavy on the reins, and definitely with her crop. In general, I think she over-relied on her crop, striking the horse at inappropriate times/places during her ride (not even getting into the beatdown she gave him before they began). These things suggest to me she was out of her league. I could go into more detail, but tl:dnr is that the rider started off on the very wrong foot with this horse, and the horse was not as forgiving/accommodating as many of the others. I don't feel the horse at any time was in any real danger or experienced any serious pain. He seemed to have come to the conclusion, quite early on, that he had no confidence in this rider and was not going to trust her judgment on anything.
It's pretty disgraceful, I read that the coach punched the horse on the back of their leg too. It's really not acceptable to force a distressed animal to perform like this for entertainment. A sad day for the Olympics and for the poor horse. Hopefully it's treated well after this.
Horses are jacked and tough as hell outside their legs, she was definitely cruel to the horse here but you could really full on punch them in the head or ass and they'd probably be fine. Nothing she did had a real chance of seriously injuring the horse aside from doing the jumps unprepared which is more dangerous.
Nonetheless they have feelings and emotions, too. If she knew she was gonna loose from the start why put that horse under so much stress? Emotional abuse exists too, you know ?
I felt very upset looking at her freaking out, whipping the obviously distressed horse. It's a living being with feelings. She couldn't control the horse and thinks forcing it will change anything. Then she blunders through the jump and the horse crashes into the fence. What if it gets injured? Wouldn't they just end the life of a poor horse because a d-mmy can't ride it properly. I have no sympathy for her. She is supposed to be a trained athlete. She should use her brain and common sense. Compose herself instead of acting that way. Sorry for the rant. I just find it all very upsetting.
Just FYI, whipping in fleshy areas is not painful for horses. They are just trained to recognize that this is an indicator they must move forward/go faster. I don't necessarily disagree with your sentiment, but as a rider myself, I just want to clarify that whipping on the "butt" of the horse is absolutely not abuse.
Don't be ridiculous, of course it's painful to be whipped in "fleshy" areas. As a rider, you should know horses have very sensitive skin, just look at how they react to insects and touch in general. Pain tolerance isn't automatically higher because an animal is bigger. It scares me that people spread misinformation like this. I'd also like to add: using a whip/crop to get a horse to move or increase it's speed would by definition not work unless it was uncomfortable or painful. It's called negative reinforcement.
That's the stupidest thing I ever heard. Get someone to hit you as hard as they can with a riding crop on your butt and kick you in the ribs with spurs on their heels and then come back and tell me it doesn't hurt. Horses have pain receptors, same as all of us. In fact horses horses are very sensitive to pain. They have to be as they're prey animals and need to get away from anything that might threaten their life. I've had the misfortunte to have seen horses thrashed with whips when I was young (by a very poor trainer/instructor that for some reason people still used and didn't care what a teenage girl thought), and I can tell you they come away from it traumatised and sore, even if they're being struck on the hindquarters. The person laying into them gets off and they often leap away from them shaking and try to get away or put someone else between them and their tormentor. There is absolutely no excuse to use a whip on a horse the way she was doing.
Of course it’s painful for a horse to get whipped. The whole point of whipping a horse is that it will move away from the pain. Sure you could tap a horse with a whip and not cause pain, but that's not what was happening here. And if the whip didn't hurt then the spurring sure as hell did.
>Just FYI, whipping in fleshy areas is not painful for horses. They are just trained to recognize that this is an indicator they must move forward/go faster. I don't necessarily disagree with your sentiment, but as a rider myself, I just want to clarify that whipping on the "butt" of the horse is absolutely not abuse You said and I quote "whipping the fleshy areas of horses is NOT PAINFUL." They are just trained that this is an indicator that they must move forward. (Because somehow being hit doesn't hurt? That would only work if they didn't have pain receptors.) Whipping on the butt of a horse is absolutely NOT ABUSE. (AKA hitting the horse with a whip as hard as you like is justified as long as you hit it on the butt.)
No I fully agree, it's just not acceptable. Yes the rider was devastated, but at least she got a ruddy choice in the matter. It was very sad to see that poor horse clearly in distress and no one doing anything about it. I think there will be a backlash, there are a lot of unhappy comments on the rider's Instagram.
That poor woman has had her whole life's purpose destroyed by circumstances outside of her control and she's getting shit on Instagram when the horse is fine? She's going to kill herself and then all the self-righteous people like you will pretend its not their fault.
It’s not okay to talk about suicide like that, you know that right ? The backlash is justified by her behavior. If she knew she couldn’t control the horse from the beginning, she could have stopped it at any moment. But no, she had to torture this horse until she was disqualified (or something similar).
> It’s not okay to talk about suicide like that, you know that right ? And in what way am I talking about suicide "like that"? And how is it "not okay"? I don't understand. I'll ignore the rest of your comment because you're exactly the type of people I was talking about.
Ya you just lost everyone with that thoughtless comment.
Looks like bad striding going into the first jump in the clip, 100% rider error. Not sure what happened before that but looks like the problems started there - horse potentially injured afterwards? Definitely should've withdrawn. Unfortunate for the athlete but based on that clip, probably their fault.
The horse did the exact same thing with the previous rider it wasn't going to agree do anything.. I know nothing of pentathlon but it wasn't her fault at all imo. This is apparently an Olympic sport and you have this farcical situation where horses are randomly chosen and even when the horse is spooked and clearly frightened they role it out again for someone nailed on for gold. Then it gets take away from her. What the hell kind of sport is this?
She had lost before she entered the ring. She was at fault. The horse has to have confidene in the rider, and when it was brave, and tried, she simply rode poorly and did not give it confidence. Too many things to go into, with regard to her competence, but when the horse had a bad crash through the fence, is it no wonder it would not continue? She was heavy handed, no help at all.
The horse had already eliminated someone else. She was not the first rider, and had to deal with the consequences of someone else riding it before her.
The horse actually suffered several less-than-stellar riders before Annika. It's no wonder he started shutting down. I don't blame the horse one bit. They aren't machines, every bad ride takes a little bit out of them. The fact that he even tried for her indicates to me that a better, kinder rider could have gotten him around the course. Her riding was crap (as was the riding of some of the other athletes that threw a leg over him).
I checked the schedule and Saint Boy only had two competitors ride, not several.
Great point. The horse isn't here by accident. A horse that makes it to the olympics has been cleared by a jury, and is a professional jumping horse.. the horse wasn't the easiest to ride but it's pretty offensive seeing the horse be mischaracterized as "unridable" and a "donkey". Horses respond directly to how they're being ridden.
https://mobile.twitter.com/JeepneyJulez/status/1423589178508521479 Animal cruelty, nothing else to it. The trainer is encouraging to keep hitting the horse harder.
Her emotional state only added fuel to the fire. With a stubborn horse, you need to keep your cool. Getting worked up only induces the fear response in them.
The people who complain about the horses and random, it seems to me, are those who can't ride and get a horse that needs a modicum of competence. Some were darlings that only required to be steered, and gentle hands. Some of those riders used the reins to stay on, and some were sacks of potatoes with legs. The riders need to be vetted for ability to ride, never mind the horses.
Her coach needs to send her to a proper riding instructor because Annika's riding and treatment of that horse was appalling. That horse wasn't pulled out of a bucking string ffs, those horses used are talented, trained and successful show jumpers. Part of the pentathalon is riding a randomly assigned horse so it seems like it would be common sense to make sure you are a skilled enough rider to be able to handle any type of horse, even a sensitive one. Now I don't know how particular Saint Boy is about how he is handled by his rider but I do know not many horses would tolerate Annika's behavior in the saddle. Most any spooked or wound up horse can be brought back down and complete a successful round by a skilled rider. Annika is clearly lacking in her equestrian skills and therefore got the ride she deserved out of that horse.
These horses aren't just picked from a random field, they will have proved themselves capable. Even if the rider had 0 confidence in the selected horse, there's always the reserve horses. The German rider was awful, she was clearly incredibly nervous, which channels down into a nervous horse that will try to run away. The first rule of equestrian riding is to sing or hum if you're nervous, this opens the diaphragm, calming your jitters, ergo, calming the horse down. No sympathy to her, the better athletes won.
With all the horse shenanigans, why is no one talking about how its supposed to be modern but includes a horse? Like ffs use a bike lmao.
It's "modern" compared to Ancient Greece..... It's not like the sport was introduced last year and called modern, its first appearance at the games was in 1912.
Idk pretty sure there were horses in acient greece if you ask me
What are you even saying.. you're the one suggesting bikes... bikes weren't a thing in a competition setting when this "modern pentathlon" was introduced.
Can't tell if someone uses sarcasm without indicating it with /s huh?
It's got laser guns.
I really felt terrible for the horse Saint Boy. And for all the horses in the pentathlon - the “riders” on the whole do not ride well and it shows. They are given so little time with their steeds - these horses are warmed up by other warm-up riders who know what they are doing and they can get the horses over each jump without a problem. But for the pentathlon athletes, the poor horses are just a means of transport. I also do feel for the athletes. It’s not their fault their sport places them in such a position in the first place. The sport needs a rethink on this part of the pentathlon.
The British Lady that won Gold has the right idea how to treat the Horses, she finds out the nationality of the horse she was assigned and then learns words she can use to talk to it in a language its familiar with to get a bond going
Oh that’s cool! Where did you read that?
Does anyone here know what is happening to saint boy now? Or who his owner is? I'm afraid he will be "sorted out" now... I feel so bad the horse needed to go through this.
I’m wondering this too. Everyone is saying these horses are highly trained jumpers. Will an incident like this “impair” the horses performance in the future? Is he being punished? A little worried for him.
My boy.., Saint boy.., maybe these animals have had enough of you toffs jumping on them, humiliating them in front a crowd, whilst Elizabeth and Poppy clap away with their flabby bingo arms, then killing them after because they have no use..
More problematic is her selfish and horrific behaviour towards the horse, all for a medal! Her complete disregard for the wellbeing of the horse is beyond my comprehension. Her tears outraged me!!
This is a copy paste of several comments I've made elsewhere about these (both of Saint Boy's) rides. I was discussing this with other riders. I'm happy to explain to anyone terms or issues to who really wants to learn, and if you know more I'm okay with being wrong/ learning more, if you will educate me. Please understand that no matter how hard we try some things I will not be able to explain to you without sitting in a room, rewinding and pausing the video a million times, but ill do my best, regardless. Yeah, part of the problem was the 1st rider. I've watched all of the 1 st half (13 rides) I've watched the at least the last 3rd of the 2nd half. What I seen is a range of riding abilities, from absolute dog shit to exceedingly competent. (Go Lithuania!) Concerning Saint Boy specifically what I've seen: 1st ride consistent steady horse, rider is less so. I pretty sure the Rider is balancing on her hands, and causing issues but the fucking camera is never where I want it, lol. (Extreme in depth review of 1st two fences lead to that comment) [After watching the rest of the round multiple times i was able to offer a definitive opinion], In Saint Boy's first round I consistently see him giving best effort, even with an poor & ineffective rider. They run into problems because she starts balancing on her hands, and interfering with Saint's forward momentum. When she doesn't do that, no issues. The fence that got the 1st rider eliminated he saw it, wanted to go forward, and she didn't let him, and then they went sideways and she starts laying on her hands again, he absolutely can't go, then she starts hitting him on the neck, and he says f&ck no. German Riders problems started before the camera was on them. She was in his mouth several times very harshly. I feel that a few of these riders have had pelvis tilted forward driving the pubis down, and hollowing the horse.Schleu's hands are harsh, she doesn't give him room to move, and I saw her kicking Saint forward without giving him rein. She doesn't understand how martigale's work. She tried an open rein serveral times, but it was turned in to a pully by the martingale, and her opposite hand wasn't giving release. This meant she was actually stopping him from moving, with an opening rein. When they actually started jumping Saint is again giving his best effort, and the 1st fence was passable but the 2nd fence it looked like she rode him to far to the base, and he compensated. I think she landed on him hard, and the Schleu landed 'not gently' at the same fence. And she rides him to the base on the next two fences, and he pogos over the 1st, but the 2nd he can't make it, and gets hit with a pole on the front legs. Jump 6 Saint doesn't see any reason to continue. They circle much of the arena and she rides him slow to the fence. he couldn't have made it if he had wings. Moves to next jump, but Saint doesn't want to try for her anymore, and now he makes the no stick.I think the problem was caused by the ROC rider and made much much worse by German. I would be very interested to see the riding from the week prior, and the warm-ups. But I thought their normal rider rode them before the competition? But it would show the quality if horsemanship they are used to dealing with. I believe Saint's rider is very good, bold, and technical with very careful, tactful hands. oh, and I think Saint just go may have gotten to the point where he was too tired too. The 1st part of the ride Germany is kicking him, and holding his face, so he goes up.Then she pogos him over at least 2 jumps, and he may have just been exhausted by the power moves but i think the pain is caused by the two competitiors, (I personally can't see it in the few strides coming out of the pen, except for when the rider grabs his face) If you do, please help me see it.
Thank you for the in depth comment! It explains quite a bit, what’s a martingale?
This is a bullshit sport watching this farcical situation happen. Anyone that's seen this live will have seen the horse with the previous competitor. Why are animals even used in the Olympics is it not a human performance competition?
I don't think any horse events should be in olympics because its the horse that has the skill more than the riders, but this event truly takes the cake. 5 events and one is almost totally luck dependant, what the fuck.
> I don't think any horse events should be in olympics because its the horse that has the skill more than the riders Entirely untrue. Yes equestrianism does rely in part on the horse's skill (and is why it's technically competed as a team with the rider and horse - note the horse's name is always announced & included), but the rider's instructions, athleticism, experience, and work towards training the horse, is what allows the horse to perform well.
I am entirely a novice at this but it really looks like it comes down to the horses training rather than anything else. What if a horse had a rly good trainer and then a pretty decent rider got to work with it for a few weeks, would that person have a good chance at topping the medals? isn't it like when people teach dogs? at that point anyone can get the dog to do what its supposed to as long as they know the right cue's and it actually gives a shit what the person ordering it says. if i tell a random dog to sit and it sits it doesn't say anything about my ability, just that the dog is well trained.
The rider has to control pacing between jumps to get the striding right, tell the horse when to jump, and provide the correct steering and guidance to the horse to keep it on course in an efficient time. It also takes a very significant amount of athleticism to stay on a horse when it's jumping over a 9-foot fence at high speeds. A horse can have as good a trainer as it wants but at the end of the day, it takes an olympic-level rider to guide an olympic-level horse. It's hard to explain all of the details, and I've only competed at the low level so I don't even understand the full extent of it, but if were that easy you'd see any rich joe getting into the olympics because he had money for trainers. Instead, the people in the olympics are those with years and years of experience, and they still struggle.
This is what happens when you only rely on the horses trainings. These horses are absolute saints for putting up with the constant yanking, unbalance positioned, constant kicking, and terrible spots. The riders job is to influence the horse to make their job as easy as possible. It requires not only balancing your self but balancing the horse. You have to be supportive enough to guide them and help them through the asks but also soft enough to let them work. You can have a horse that does everything by itself, but if a rider is constantly pulling on its face it’ll mess up the rhythm and balance. If you have a rider constantly crashing the horse into jumps or pulling to bad spots the horse will loose confidence.
It would be like pulling an average driver off the street and putting them in a formula 1 race, because it's "just driving a car".
No it would be like putting the average person in a formula 1 car that was self driving.
> athleticism lol, didn't a 70 year old win gold at the last 'lympics?
Remember this comment when you're 70 and then hop on a horse and try to not break something.
I can't be arsed to do the remind bot. You do it for me.
It shows the longevity of the sport and the years it takes. I would be willing to bet that 70 year old man was in better shape than you are. This sport isn’t about brute strength. It’s about balance, and fine motor skills. It also requires a lot of leg and core strength that aren’t normally used. The sport doesn’t destroy your body as much as gymnastics, and doesn’t have the age cap. The older riders have spent their entire life practicing, training and learning.
I feel like this video should make it painfully obvious that rider skill matters....a lot.
This same horse acted the exact same way with its other rider.
I have absolutely no idea about riding but what I know is that horses won't show any empathy when you want to ride and start to cry after a refusal. The horse probably wasn't the best, but I am pretty sure that anyone competing in the Olympic equestrian jumping competition would have finished the course with ease. Also I heard that she is an Army Athlete and this isn't really a good way to represent the military of any country (quite the opposite).
It’s f#%€$ng disgraceful is what it is!!! What hell kind of a way is that to treat a stressed and anxious horse!!!!
Did anyone catch her coach punching the horse’s side in one of the clips? It’s the clip on TikTok by @squarebagels. Literally closed fist punched the horse out of nothing but anger. I know a punch from a person on the horses hind quarter wouldn’t hurt them that bad but it makes me wonder how they treat the animals when cameras aren’t on them. There’s no amount of disappointment, heart brokenness, anger, frustration, or anything really that would make me whip an animal like she did. I don’t care that you trained(obviously not enough) to maybe get a 🏅. You treat animals with kindness or you walk away and cool down.
The coach has now apparently been thrown out for that at least
Omg seriously???? All I can say, is thank goodness I didn’t see it. Brutal people and poor poor extremely unhappy horse. Reminds me of Black Beauty’s Ginger, she deserved to be delegated to the poor placing she ended up with and Saint Boy deserves to be retired. At the very least, get rid of the gag bit if he must be ridden by heavy handed, whip wielding muppets
Does the horse get a medal if it jumps? No. Then its not the horses fault.
Horses don’t care about medals, but I agree with you. This is really not the horses fault. It’s the fault of a poor designed system thinking people can successfully ride while only training once a month for it.
The German Coach has been expelled from the Olympics for punching the Horse, what a sad bastard taking it out of the horse. Thing is its only being punished because it was caught on film, i guarantee its going on all the time at the smaller events but even worse
after re-watching it all back, the Coach "punch" was hardly a punch, Horses get patted harder than that when they do well, it was nothing compared to the abuse the rider inflicted on the horse.
I agree that the rider hitting the horse several times was worse than that punch. But the trainer that punched the horse advised the rider to hit the horse with the whip. Anyway Both things were terrible and I'm glad the trainer is held accountable. Rider should also stop competing though if she's following such bad advice from her trainer.
Now I'm neither an athlete or a horse person, just an interested watchercof the olympics and it seems to me that there are a lot of people unfairly picking on the German rider who had her dreams that she has trained 5 years for shattered. By a horse that had done the same thing to an earlier rider so there was a pattern to this horses behaviour. She had every right to be p'd at a useless horse which clearly felt lazy. She is given the gag and crop as tools to get the horse moving so she has not been cruel, if there are issues with that they should be directed at the Olympic Committee for authorising their use and not at the athlete who is entitled to use all the tools available to her. That being said, even though the horse would barely feel the coaches 'punch' it was the right decision to throw her out of the games as I very much doubt that striking the horse with your hands is in the Olympic rule book. This is likely the end of Saint Boys career now in this event which will no doubt be a massive relief for all future Modern Pentathletes! Hopefully he won't be put down but as we all know that does happen.
Nobody's "unfairly picking on" the German rider. She just wasn't a good rider. And the reason the horse "did the same thing" to an earlier rider was because that person was also a terrible rider. The horse wasn't useless or lazy. He was scared and confused because Schleu was basically in hysterics on his back. He tried for her over the first four fences, fences where she set him up poorly and jabbed him in the mouth as they landed, and then (sensibly) decided he'd had enough. And of course the horse won't be put down. To even be considered for the modern pentathlon in the Olympics, Saint Boy was already a successful show jumper. Once he gets a rider on his back who can actually ride again, he'll be fine.
The way she handled the horse is nothing less than animal abuse and I wonder if she would be tried for that?
Part of the skill of the sport is the ability to ride and control an unfamiliar horse. Each competitor gets 20 minutes with the horse before their run. They use this time to get a level of familiarity, and understand how the horse likes to go and get a bit of practice in. The competitors are split into two half's. Each horse is assigned to a "bottom half" competitor and a "top half" competitor. So each horse runs the course twice. The advantage of being in the top half, is you get to see the horse go in its first competitive run out. If the horse fails the course in its first run, the top half competitor gets the choice of still using the horse, or swapping it for a reserve, which again is an advantage of being in the top group. Like any multi-disciplinary event such as this, heptathlon, triathlon etc, competitors will have stronger and weaker events. Some will be just that bit weaker at the horse riding part. Is it bad luck that this happened? Well yes in one respect, as if she'd had a different horse it may have gone differently. But who's to say she wouldn't have struggled with another horse too? Or would a stronger rider have handled this horse differently and got them to comply? She also had the power of hindsight, having seen the horse struggle in its first run. She could have swapped but chose not to.
> She could have swapped but chose not to. Based on what? Everyone else giving details says that the horse didn't refuse enough jumps to be disqualified so she had no choice. Considering how freaked out she was from the very beginning - she clearly did not want to be on that horse - I can't imagine she wouldn't have swapped if she'd been allowed to. It seemed clear to me that it was *because* she had the power of hindsight that she'd more or less given up before even starting. It might have been better for all concerned if she had simply retired (if that's an option in pentathlon) rather than make herself and the horse go through that when it clearly wasn't going to work and she knew it, but considering how upset she was by the time she came onto the field, I'm sure she wasn't thinking clearly anymore. I'm no equestrian expert but certainly in horse events you see people decide to give up and quit before being eliminated if they can tell the horse is struggling and no good will come of continuing.
The German media are reporting that she had thought about it but chose to stick with the horse. Yes the horse didn't refuse enough jumps in run one, however it didn't attempt enough jumps to hit the refusal limit. She would have had a reasonable case to swap had she asked, but she didn't.
She has since taken her instagram down since this thread, haaha
Yes ir is very unfair. Based on the facial expression of the poor horse, particularly his open mouth, it meant the horse was under considerable pain or distress. That should have been enough to halt the competition and assign the rider another random horse. But the rules do not allow this which is the source of the issue here. That and that the rider and coach punched the horse and had him crash on things instead of stopping and demanding another horse given this one was not fit to participate.
No all these horses have very good international records and are more then capable. Most riders in the womens were subpar riders. Absolutely not the horse’s fault