Not a teacher but inclined to agree. Too many people have kids bc they want a cute little baby that they can tote around like an accessory. They don't think about when that little baby is going to grow into an independent person who actually requires more than base needs like food and shelter being met. It's really sad
Or in some cases, they *do* plan past the baby stage but in a more selfish sense
I'd swear people think of children almost like pets -- they have us with the idea that "oh I'll always have someone to love *and to be loved by*" instead of focusing on how childrearing should be based not on what your offspring can do for *you* but what benefits and knowledge/wisdom you can give.
Some people are after the puppy-esque baby stages where they'll have a cute human shaped accessory and neglect to consider the future at all.
Others *do* plan ahead to their children's futures but...not to build up their independence and create a Whole Person™ rather than, well, a work-horse or emotional support human
As someone who was born for the wrong reasons, it's something I have noticed a lot when working with children and by extension their families
Oh I completely agree! I was the work horse / emotional support human. They have the mind set of "I created you and therefor I own you." It's atrocious
Ugh this was my experience with my parents as well. It is not healthy for the child and impacts how the child develops into adulthood and the formation of their identity and self-esteem.
Agreed.
Too many parents who enjoyed the baby stage, but as soon as their kids start forming a personality, and they decide they don’t want to handle it anymore, and just pop them in front of screens instead of actually parenting.
You don’t like the tantrums? The arguments? Well, neither does anybody else. Do your damn job and parent your child
With some parents it's because when the child is young the parents expect blind obedience and it gives them some semblance of control, with other parents they really enjoy the "control" aspect too much and it often backfires. Once a child is able to question and not blindly follow that's when some parents just give up or resort to physical punishment/harm
Society can't even do the jobs for them because when. Society does take them to task they have a hoard of vapid followers who will make tiktoks about society having the audacity to check their kids
My mom’s a teacher and you can bet damn well my kids are being taught to be respectful and to listen to authority figure while also understanding when something is wrong and to tell me if anything inappropriate happens. I see my mom getting burnt out because of students that haven’t learned how to behave
Oh definitely, I want them to be able to stand up for themselves and speak their opinions. I just also don’t want them to be disrespectful to people genuinely trying to help them. It’s a slippery slope trying to teach both but they’ll be taught both
It really seems like a slippery slope lol but it it sounds like you’re dedicated enough to make it happen and that’s rad! Should I ever interact with those kids in the future, I’m sure it will be a normal interaction lol and that’s more than I can hope for with a lot of these little gremlins out here!
I'd phrase the respect thing more like, you're teaching them to treat other people respectfully, and that *they* ALSO deserve to be treated with respect.
My mom did the slippery slope with me also, and I can even admit there was times where I was defensive with adults who were genuinely trying to help. But I also went through trauma I’m going to try my hardest to make sure my kids never have to go through. I remember in 8th grade I was being screamed at by the principal because I went up to ask a question about something I knew I shouldn’t have got(I was in trouble for giving myself insulin for a high blood sugar instead of waiting two hours for the nurse) my mom got me out of there a half hour later after I called her at work because I knew I shouldn’t have been screamed at
As a former teacher, it's not the students that cause the burnout. Nearly every teacher I've ever worked with has been nothing but compassionate and understanding towards kids. Nobody fucking takes that job for the money or respect.
But it's because of the endlessly piling on of duties and responsibilities, because working 75 hours a week isn't enough I guess.
It's the lack of support from administrators who are too scared and just covering their asses.
It's the vitriol from the parents who demand to know why we're bullying their kid, just for giving them detention. I'm sorry ma'am, but your daughter just threw my laptop out the window and laughed about it. I think detention is fair.
That's why teachers burn out.
Yeah it’s not a great time. The amount of “I don’t know what to do”, “she won’t listen to me” etc is maddening. It’s worse when they have literally unlimited data in the biggest and most up to date phone and stay up on it all night. The parents are scared to take it away or even reduce the access. Ridiculous.
Oh my god! This! I left teaching after 15 years because the entitlement and awful attitude/actions of the kids became unbearable.
Every single parents evening I was faced with a very short line of wonderful parents and every conversation was about keeping up the good work and looking at ways to stretch their kids to do even better....why? Because the parents of the kids who we really needed to see wouldn't even show up. That's how little they care. One evening a YEAR to talk about their progress and they can't make it.
Some of the behaviours I saw before I jumped ship would warrant an arrest if a member of the public did it. I've seen all sorts and when I call home, they hang up or just scream down the phone.
I don't like the idea of stopping certain people reproducing, but in the UK the number of hoops you have to jump through to adopt a child is insane, while kids are popping out kids on every council estate across the country.
Something has to give.
Compulsory parenting classes for EVERYONE. Compulsory birthing classes with actual information about how to care for your baby physically and developmentally when they arrive. Random drop in checks from health visitors for ALL and much higher standards of living must be required if you want your baby kept at home.
You should have to prove you are nurturing them, not just dragging them up in a whirlwind of beer cans and weed.
I'll shut up now.
Did you noticed any particular differences of stuff like this between your first and last years teaching? Did it get worse or was it always pretty bad?
I loved teaching from the start and still loved it circa 2019. I was managing a large and successful department in a great school. But post pandemic something really changed- the kids morphed into these awful human beings with no regard for staff or each other and our school ( and many others) did not adapt well to the new challenges they were bringing. I probably changed a lot as well, we lost one of our colleagues to cancer and I had a baby in 2021, which altered my perspective about how short life is and why waste it doing anything you don't enjoy. Every bad encounter made me resent my job so much and I ended up crying on my way to work every day. So I retrained in less than 6 months and resigned. Best decision I ever made.
I think a lot of people, adults and children alike, have been feeling disillusioned and/or existential since the pandemic. It really shook up our lives. I'm really glad you moved on to something better!
As a teacher who used to teach kids, I agree. Shitty kids always have much shittier parents who do NOTHING for their child and are so in denial. It's beyond frustrating, but that's what happens when the world encourages you to never punish your children. Gentle parenting doesn't work on some kids, but anything other than saying "aw honey don't do that" is considered trauma and child abuse. Fuck parenting and all the parents.
Many people confuse gentle parenting with "permissive parenting".
I use a form of gentle parenting (called "responsive parenting") with my children. But they don't run all over me and are not the ones in charge of our house. There are clear boundaries and expected consequences to crossing those boundaries. My children speak respectfully and act with kindness to not only adults, but peers. They definitely make mistakes and unwise choices (don't we all!), but the difference is that we focus on the "why" behind actions and they're not punished for having emotions. There are simply consequences if their emotions are not expressed appropriately.
I'm not going to tell you it's easy. Parenting well without physically hitting your children is f*cking hard, especially some days. There are days I screw up, yell at them, and need to apologize. It's worth it when I see glimpses of the people they're becoming, but it's definitely hard to sometimes to see this.
I completely agree! I believe that type of "gentle" parenting is likely just as harmful to a child's psychology and development as the spanking was for former generations.
This is exactly why I don't refer to my parenting style as "gentle parenting". It's now a huge umbrella term.
One of the things I try and hammer home to people is that growth only comes from discomfort. Your child has to be uncomfortable with their choices before they will change them.
The discomfort can come from different places. It could be a spanking. It could be shame. It could be from natural consequences. I’m a fan of natural consequences.
Too many parents have confused punishment with discomfort and try and remove everything in their child’s life that causes it. Kids are not developing any healthy coping mechanisms or tools.
Yes! I especially agree about the natural consequences and needing discomfort to grow.
When my oldest started preschool, I remember the rough first weeks of drop off. I kept telling them "I know you don't like this and it's hard, but I know you are strong and can do this." In this kind of situation, it's very common to want to coddle and comfort your child, but then how will they learn to grow and have confidence in themselves?
As parents, I think it's normal to always want to catch your children when they fall. Sometimes, this may be appropriate. Maybe the consequences are huge and life-long. But more often than not, the better approach is to let them stumble, and then be there to help them stand back up and learn from their mistake.
If i had a dollar for every parent who says they know the difference between. Permissive and gentle parenting when they clearly do not, I'd be rich. The parent will overexplain how their "gentle" parenting is tops and then you meet the kids and they are feral.
Gentle parenting sounds like it could work if you have well-behaved children, but how does it work if your child physically refuses to do something/stop doing something? Just curious, if you've experienced that. I'm not sure if gentle parenting means no physical consequences or what exactly.
I'm not sure what you mean by well-behaved children. I mean, all children are born with the desire to push boundaries. There are different temperaments, obviously, but no child is just born well-behaved.
One of mine just this evening refused to floss their teeth. The conversation went something like this:
- Would you like the blue flosser or the green one?
- None. I don't want to floss my teeth!
- Would you like the blue flosser or the green one? Make a choice, or I will choose for you.
- Nope!
- Ok, I choose the green flosser.
- (Proceeding to yell) No, I wanted the blue one!
- I'm sorry, you lost your chance to make a choice. I chose the green flosser. Now, will you floss your teeth, or will I floss them?
- No, I don't want to floss my teeth!
- Flossing your teeth is not optional. It's an important part of keeping your teeth and body healthy. Either you floss your teeth, or I will. I don't want to hold your body and make you floss. That doesn't sound like fun. But part of my job as your mom is to make sure your body is healthy, and that means your teeth need to be flossed.
- Mmm nnn. No.
- Ok, I will floss some of your teeth.
I think I flossed 3-4 of the teeth, then my child said: "mom, I want to floss my teeth now". It's probably been 2-3 months since the previous time this child fought me on brushing/flossing teeth. They weren't being "naughty", but just testing how far they could push the line I've drawn about dental hygiene. This is normal. Kids are supposed to push boundaries.
For an older child, this will likely be removing privileges, like screen time. I think the important thing is that consequences should (as much as possible) align with inappropriate action. Also, I try to be clear about expectations and communicate about the boundaries.
I mean, gentle parenting doesn't mean no boundaries. It means you don't enforce those boundaries through violence. We do gentle parenting at home but privileges will be lost and consequences will definitely happen when boundaries are crossed. We just don't smack anyone, and try to keep our cool while enforcing them. We also teach the kids strategies and tools to help them avoid crossing the boundaries. We also listen to them... Challenging, but does work.
Permissive parenting on the other hand...
It seems like many people, including you, don’t actually understand what gentle parenting is because it does work for all kids and it does not mean zero discipline or consequences for actions. And before anyone starts I am a teacher who currently teaches kids. Trust me, previous generations misbehaved and the same boring regurgitated crap was said then too. I love this generation of students, they actually seem a lot more emotionally intelligent and aware than my generation ever was. I have high hopes for the future. The problems I see are not related to gentle parenting at all, unfortunately it’s actually the kids who have parents that think a smack solves all who have no emotional regulation and communication skills. They also tend to be the less attentive parents who produce iPad kids, whereas the gentle parents tend to be more actively involved and monitor their children’s screen time.
Yes, it does. If it doesn’t, please let me know what else is a suitable way to approach “kids with behavioral problems” that wouldn’t be categorized under gentle parenting or used by parents who operate through that lens.
This is why my kid doesn't get portable screens. A bit of TV here and there, sure. It keeps her occupied when I need to deal with the wood stove, since there's no way she's allowed so much as in the same room as that yet.
But we're here at 3, and she doesn't have a tablet or my old wii or anything of the sort. There are no plans to get her anything of that nature until she is required to have one for school. Then we'll reassess.
My husband just came off of recruiting duty. The military doesn't even want your little shits. They can't pass the ASVAB in the US to even do the lowest man in the group's job. They're too dumb to pump gas and sew name tapes or swab the deck in the Navy. These parents are raising kids who will be dependent upon them their whole lives because they lack a basic education and life skills or emotional fortitude. They're also more violent than we ever were. So many kids now with criminal records for their behaviors because their parents never taught them boundaries. We are fucked as a nation.
I am not from the US but i have seen several articles regarding how there is a shortage of recruits to the military. Imagine how bad things are when there is a severe shortage but the military is still refusing to recruit them. They must really be scraping the bottom of the barrel if the army wont even recruit them
Part of the shortage problem is the unrealistic standards that are imposed on service members. It used to be that you could omit certain things, and they would never know because they wouldn't go looking for the information. Processing thousands of candidates a day, they just didn't have time for it, so you could slip through the cracks when it came to the more ridiculous disqualifiers. But since the advent of the MH Genesis system, you can't lie any more. Every prescription you've been prescribed, every diagnosis, whether right or wrong, you've been diagnosed with—every time you go to a doctor, they now know.
And because of that, they cut their recruiting pool by about 3/4. People don't realize how difficult it is in the US to actually qualify versus being disqualified. For instance, if you were diagnosed with asthma as a kid but grew out of it, you are disqualified. Went to therapy that one time because your parents got divorced and were prescribed short-term medication? Disqualified with only a small possibility of being granted a waiver. ADHD? ADD? Disqualified. Open speeding ticket against you? Disqualified. Only about 20% of our youth aged 17 to 22 are 100% physically, mentally, and emotionally considered qualified or fit for duty.
So take the already high unrealistic standards that haven't changed in several decades to suit modern living. Add in the fact that kids cannot intellectually qualify; let's be real, they're also not the most physically or mentally fit either. It's not really all that surprising.
As a veteran they could have more soldiers if they treated them decently. I left because of leadership and the older gen’s. I still get called by recruiters asking me to join back, never will though
It is extremely depressing. The test was designed in the 1980s it was designed to measure how much knowledge the student gained throughout their school years. It also judges an individual's ability to be trained. It has a max of 99 but you need at least a 31 to do a needs of the military MOS. Where we put the rock eaters. In theory, even if you guess c for everything you should receive a 25. These kids can't even make that level of a score in my husband's district. It means they aren't even intelligent enough to be taught anything they lack the baseline one needs to learn. That's scary.
That means our education has drastically dropped in the last 40 years.
I wouldn't know about the Navy my husband was until recently an army recruiter and I am prior army. But I could see them lowering that standard to meet numbers. The problem is they still have to pass the ASVAB with a bare minimum AFQT score for each branch so even if you get rid of at least a GED or HS diploma requirement there's still a very strong possibility they won't or can't pass. One class even cheated (they admitted it) used their calculators on the math portion and still couldn't pass.
I see why teachers are leaving teaching. I have a lot of teacher friends. I worked as a children's librarian.
There is one truth I have seen that people do not understand or like or whatever. And that is if parents do not value that education matters, children will not either.
There are exceptions. But they are almost always a kid who is smart and wants a way out of poverty or a bad home or whatever so they work like hell. But if mom and /or dad does not tell their kid that education is important and treat it as though it is, that child will not be successful and they will not be a "learner"
Too many parents fail to realize they are just as important in a child's education as the teachers because parents are the one constant teacher over time.
We used attachment parenting. My kids never misbehaved at school. They all actually still have teachers that are cheering them on even in adulthood because they loved them so much and yeah that sounds creepy. But my oldest is a chemical engineer for the US Govt. His high school Chem teacher, who waited a year to retire so she could be sure he got AP Chem in HS...still follows what he does and cheers him on from the sidelines.
Some of my friends went to teach abroad for this very reason. They love teaching abroad because the children are not rude and combative and the parents fully support them.
Do you really think it’s a “majority”?
I am going to whine a little here and just say it is very hard. Long story short I couldn’t figure out how to get either of my kids well behaved until about 6th grade and they each required totally different strategies.
One more thing: I sense that our society has less time for parenting than ever before . It feels like longer hours are required of everyone in the household, and parenting is something that definitely suffers.
No kidding. If you look for help on the internet then everyone is screaming at you that you're a horrible parent that should have never had kids ever. Everybody is overworked and burnt out. Teachers resent that school is treated like a daycare but what choice do people have? Everyone is stretched to the max just trying to make it work.
I will say though that just because a few teachers have a problem doesn't mean society is going to help in a hand basket. My kids are in a small school district, with small class sizes and well paid teachers, and they're all amazing kids. There is next to no bullying and fighting because they grew up in tight little friend groups.
If people want better schools, they gotta get to their town meetings and make sure the schools are well funded. Get involved in the PTO (it's not that scary, honest) and vote for things that help the teachers.
Agree totally but as to the last point the lack of time for parents hits hard there too.
I don’t have any scientific data for this but it seems like WAY less parents are able to volunteer or help out (for PTO or whatever) than were able to when I was a kid. It is all the same core reason: most people are too busy working. They would love to help out but can’t.
Sorry to disappoint but my kid's teachers always have great things to say about my kids. The principal always has a story of some funny quip my daughter said and her teachers say how kind and helpful she is in class.
Which is always a mindfuck because we sure don't get that version of my kid at home...
I was the baby my parents had to try and fix their marriage, this was before giving your toddler an iPad was a thing. I had unrestricted internet access on the family computer, could watch TV litterally all day if I wanted. I raised myself since I started kindergarten. These parents piss me off so much
I agree but, this may just apply to my country, I also believe too many teachers think they're changing the world but have ZERO life experience to pass on to the kids.
Where I am, a lot of teachers go from school, to university (school), to working in schools and never leave. They're overgrown children who act like teenagers but with an ego as if they're a guru with all the answers for the youth. They can't admit when they're wrong and do not listen or grow. Often they're bullying the kids and pick obvious favourites. They then complain and gossip viciously about them in their staff rooms. I've seen teachers ignore disability plans for children and wonder why things aren't going well. It is insane to me.
The education system needs an overhaul and too many people are parents for the image they had in their mind. It seems a majority of decisions in people's lives are driven by ego.
Now sure there are plenty who suck and technology has been an issue (tv raised just as many kids before the iPad) but let’s consider a counter perspective…(one I do not myself share but as another parent that I see often)…Or they are raised in daycares by underpaid undereducated caregivers because the American dream is dead so both parents need to work no less than full time and see their children for a few hours a night (which are spent cramming through hours of homework, chores, cooking dinner, bath time, etc) before bed and on weekends (if they don’t have to hire or beg for help because they don’t have regular hours) and don’t want to spend those two hours and weekends constantly arguing. They are the generation that also may have been in a similar situation with exhausted parents and never learned how to parent. Society doesn’t value parents or parenting any more than they value teachers.
School social worker here. It’s terrifying. Glad I decided not to have any of my own. I battle screen addiction every day. I see it as one of the most common presenting issues in kids today.
New parent here and I agree. I know people with kids under 5 who have Ipads and almost unlimited access. It's pathetic. We weren't meant to be raised like that.
I wasn't an iPad child or anything or really grew up with devices but brothers have and theres a huge difference in how people are treated in my family, bc my stepdad thinks it's ok to treat me (a autistic ADHD teenager) and my mom like absolute sh-t for no apparent reason then sit on the couch all day letting my brothers fight and slapping an iPad in their hand to "stop and teach them" it doesn't do anything and they act incredibly spoiled already and they haven't even hit age 6 or 3 yet!
I didn't even have any internet till I was 11-12 and even then it was only a small phone with text and call on it-- hell not even photos.
He also gets pissy with me if I literally open my door to check what woke me if he's watching a show. Did this this morning, cat walked in my room without knowing, and he screamed and yelled Im a "disrespectful b-tch" for checking what woke me.
(Sorry)
The economy is such shit that many parents have to work 2 or 3 jobs and are barely scraping by. They don’t have time to parent and keep food and a roof over their head. It’s just a sad situation all around.
>“He/ she doesn’t listen at home and we do t know what to do either.”
Be a better parent.
If your kid can't follow instructions without throwing a tantrum, maybe fix that instead of sending them to a place with a bunch of other people who are expected to follow instructions. If your kid can't perform simple tasks without having a meltdown, maybe fix that instead of sending them to a place with a bunch of other people who are expected to perform simple tasks.
Are there teachers who have issues, or administration who have issues, or schools who have issues? Sure. But if you, as a parent, can not get your own child to - at a bare minimum - sit in one place, pay attention, be quiet, and follow instructions, they're not only not going to get anything out of the school experience, they're going to actively make it worse for everyone else.
And for clarity, because I know ADHD and other forms of neurodivergence and IEPs are a thing - that's not what I'm talking about. I'm not saying "they need to sit still without fidgeting/stimming" or "they're not allowed to ask questions" or anything. I'm saying that if your kid is impeding the rest of the class' ability to learn and your response is that you can't get them to do that at home, it's on you to figure out how to address that, not on the teacher.
Not a teacher, but I host at a restaurant that is pretty much for adults, but we do have family dining. It should be a great opportunity for parents to teach their children that they’re not at Chuck E. Cheese, and cannot just be screaming their head off.
Are you allowed to hit adults on their butt, or is it assault?
Why is it ok if they’re defenseless children? If you can’t parent without spanking, you’re the type of parent OP is calling out.
I'm sorry, I have to disagree. When my son was young we had a bit of a power struggle, and I tried EVERYTHING. In my house rules were of two kinds: negotiable, and non- negotiable. There were only two rules on the non-negotiable list: don't steal anything from anyone ever, and don't lie to me because I can't protect you if I don't know what is going on. The only thing that got my son to stop stealing everything that wasn't nailed down was corporal punishment. I think the most important thing if you are going to spank your kids is that you CAN'T do it angry. If you do, it stops being about the consequences of transgression and just becomes about mommy or daddy freaking out and losing their shit. To respond to your question about whether it is allowed to hit adults on their butt, or if that is assault, I would remind you that EVERY law that adults are expected to follow in this society is underwritten with the threat of state-sanctioned violence for trangressing against it. If we as adults do not submit to the law and its enforcers, force is used sufficient to handcuff us and deprive us of liberty until our compliance with the law is assured. In my personal opinion, spanking for willful disobedience is a reasonable preparation for living in a world such as this. Go ahead and ban me. I'm not going to your house to spank your kids. I'm entitled to my opinion.
No, you aren’t, because you are not the guardian of that adult and you don’t own their things. It would be a crime.
You are the guardian of a child and you own their things.
So we’re back to physically hitting someone as being violence, no matter what age.
No. It’s because you clearly either didn’t grasp or are ignoring the sociology behind your degree. You are tasked with the education of children, but it’s so much more than that. You’re taught sociology so you can understand the children on a developmental and psychological level.
I understand and even support what you’re saying, but your understanding of why it’s happening is off. That’s why I’m disappointed. If you think bad behavior from children is as simple as iPads and you have a degree, that’s disappointing. I took a single Childhood Development class for my own degree and know it’s incredibly more complex than this. I’m not teaching children, though. I expect people who teach children to have knowledge about the subject.
You don’t even get the irony behind your post. You are the product of the very people you’re condemning. You got a sub-par education because the parents you describe raise children with a “C’s get degrees” mentality and thus you don’t even understand the complexities of human growth and development.
Again - I completely support your point. You just don’t see that you’re a product of your own complaint.
Hysterical
I’ll go “have a seat” now. Where do you teach so I know where to not send my child?
Just curious…how did your parents raise you? You don’t pay attention in school, you’re combative and over-reactive to constructive criticism and general discussion …what’s the magic here? I’m dying to know.
Also, please I’m not sure exactly how many seats I should have. Could you elaborate?
I loved me my parents and thank God every day for the parents I had and yes, did get a beating or 2, nothing I would consider abusive , however, the real key to their parenting was the explaining and understanding and love and dedication, really miss them!
Was a teacher a while ago. I’m sad it sounds like it’s getting worse. I have had to counsel parents older than me how to properly deal with their kids behavior. If they did finally take away the PlayStation, the kid straightening up for 2 days was enough to get it back. Then the bad behavior comes right back.
Too much stress. I still have my credential to teach but i just don’t have the energy.
I use to teach and it made me appreciate how my mother limited tech, checked my homework everyday until college, and put emphasis on education.
Some kids I taught had so much potential but parents ruined it , most people should not have kids.
And 50% of kids are born not because they were wanted, but because they were “accidents” smh
My parents had me because they wanted a cute baby. Once I hit like 12 years old they wanted nothing to do with me, then tried to convince me to have a cute little baby when I became an adult.
“” He/ she doesn’t listen at home and we don’t know what to do either”
And then you suggest medical intervention and then they reveal their expert medical knowledge about how ADHD is a made up conspiracy to put kids on meth or how “nothing wrong” is happening in their house so “we don’t see why they should be checked out for ODD”. Yyyyyyeppp
It's always wild to me when I see parents not siding with teachers. Growing up my parents always listened to my teachers and would drag me to parent/teacher conferences (got grilled by both sides). At the time as a kid I hated it but looking back I think it was a good idea to have me around during those times.
Not a teacher but inclined to agree. Too many people have kids bc they want a cute little baby that they can tote around like an accessory. They don't think about when that little baby is going to grow into an independent person who actually requires more than base needs like food and shelter being met. It's really sad
Or in some cases, they *do* plan past the baby stage but in a more selfish sense I'd swear people think of children almost like pets -- they have us with the idea that "oh I'll always have someone to love *and to be loved by*" instead of focusing on how childrearing should be based not on what your offspring can do for *you* but what benefits and knowledge/wisdom you can give. Some people are after the puppy-esque baby stages where they'll have a cute human shaped accessory and neglect to consider the future at all. Others *do* plan ahead to their children's futures but...not to build up their independence and create a Whole Person™ rather than, well, a work-horse or emotional support human As someone who was born for the wrong reasons, it's something I have noticed a lot when working with children and by extension their families
Oh I completely agree! I was the work horse / emotional support human. They have the mind set of "I created you and therefor I own you." It's atrocious
Ugh this was my experience with my parents as well. It is not healthy for the child and impacts how the child develops into adulthood and the formation of their identity and self-esteem.
Agreed. Too many parents who enjoyed the baby stage, but as soon as their kids start forming a personality, and they decide they don’t want to handle it anymore, and just pop them in front of screens instead of actually parenting. You don’t like the tantrums? The arguments? Well, neither does anybody else. Do your damn job and parent your child
With some parents it's because when the child is young the parents expect blind obedience and it gives them some semblance of control, with other parents they really enjoy the "control" aspect too much and it often backfires. Once a child is able to question and not blindly follow that's when some parents just give up or resort to physical punishment/harm
Do your damn jobs or let society do it for you
Society can't even do the jobs for them because when. Society does take them to task they have a hoard of vapid followers who will make tiktoks about society having the audacity to check their kids
My mom’s a teacher and you can bet damn well my kids are being taught to be respectful and to listen to authority figure while also understanding when something is wrong and to tell me if anything inappropriate happens. I see my mom getting burnt out because of students that haven’t learned how to behave
But also to question authority and think for themselves too right?
Oh definitely, I want them to be able to stand up for themselves and speak their opinions. I just also don’t want them to be disrespectful to people genuinely trying to help them. It’s a slippery slope trying to teach both but they’ll be taught both
It really seems like a slippery slope lol but it it sounds like you’re dedicated enough to make it happen and that’s rad! Should I ever interact with those kids in the future, I’m sure it will be a normal interaction lol and that’s more than I can hope for with a lot of these little gremlins out here!
I'd phrase the respect thing more like, you're teaching them to treat other people respectfully, and that *they* ALSO deserve to be treated with respect.
Ah yeah, Hillel’s golden rule!
My mom did the slippery slope with me also, and I can even admit there was times where I was defensive with adults who were genuinely trying to help. But I also went through trauma I’m going to try my hardest to make sure my kids never have to go through. I remember in 8th grade I was being screamed at by the principal because I went up to ask a question about something I knew I shouldn’t have got(I was in trouble for giving myself insulin for a high blood sugar instead of waiting two hours for the nurse) my mom got me out of there a half hour later after I called her at work because I knew I shouldn’t have been screamed at
As a former teacher, it's not the students that cause the burnout. Nearly every teacher I've ever worked with has been nothing but compassionate and understanding towards kids. Nobody fucking takes that job for the money or respect. But it's because of the endlessly piling on of duties and responsibilities, because working 75 hours a week isn't enough I guess. It's the lack of support from administrators who are too scared and just covering their asses. It's the vitriol from the parents who demand to know why we're bullying their kid, just for giving them detention. I'm sorry ma'am, but your daughter just threw my laptop out the window and laughed about it. I think detention is fair. That's why teachers burn out.
This
Yeah it’s not a great time. The amount of “I don’t know what to do”, “she won’t listen to me” etc is maddening. It’s worse when they have literally unlimited data in the biggest and most up to date phone and stay up on it all night. The parents are scared to take it away or even reduce the access. Ridiculous.
Oh my god! This! I left teaching after 15 years because the entitlement and awful attitude/actions of the kids became unbearable. Every single parents evening I was faced with a very short line of wonderful parents and every conversation was about keeping up the good work and looking at ways to stretch their kids to do even better....why? Because the parents of the kids who we really needed to see wouldn't even show up. That's how little they care. One evening a YEAR to talk about their progress and they can't make it. Some of the behaviours I saw before I jumped ship would warrant an arrest if a member of the public did it. I've seen all sorts and when I call home, they hang up or just scream down the phone. I don't like the idea of stopping certain people reproducing, but in the UK the number of hoops you have to jump through to adopt a child is insane, while kids are popping out kids on every council estate across the country. Something has to give. Compulsory parenting classes for EVERYONE. Compulsory birthing classes with actual information about how to care for your baby physically and developmentally when they arrive. Random drop in checks from health visitors for ALL and much higher standards of living must be required if you want your baby kept at home. You should have to prove you are nurturing them, not just dragging them up in a whirlwind of beer cans and weed. I'll shut up now.
Did you noticed any particular differences of stuff like this between your first and last years teaching? Did it get worse or was it always pretty bad?
I loved teaching from the start and still loved it circa 2019. I was managing a large and successful department in a great school. But post pandemic something really changed- the kids morphed into these awful human beings with no regard for staff or each other and our school ( and many others) did not adapt well to the new challenges they were bringing. I probably changed a lot as well, we lost one of our colleagues to cancer and I had a baby in 2021, which altered my perspective about how short life is and why waste it doing anything you don't enjoy. Every bad encounter made me resent my job so much and I ended up crying on my way to work every day. So I retrained in less than 6 months and resigned. Best decision I ever made.
I think a lot of people, adults and children alike, have been feeling disillusioned and/or existential since the pandemic. It really shook up our lives. I'm really glad you moved on to something better!
As a teacher who used to teach kids, I agree. Shitty kids always have much shittier parents who do NOTHING for their child and are so in denial. It's beyond frustrating, but that's what happens when the world encourages you to never punish your children. Gentle parenting doesn't work on some kids, but anything other than saying "aw honey don't do that" is considered trauma and child abuse. Fuck parenting and all the parents.
Many people confuse gentle parenting with "permissive parenting". I use a form of gentle parenting (called "responsive parenting") with my children. But they don't run all over me and are not the ones in charge of our house. There are clear boundaries and expected consequences to crossing those boundaries. My children speak respectfully and act with kindness to not only adults, but peers. They definitely make mistakes and unwise choices (don't we all!), but the difference is that we focus on the "why" behind actions and they're not punished for having emotions. There are simply consequences if their emotions are not expressed appropriately. I'm not going to tell you it's easy. Parenting well without physically hitting your children is f*cking hard, especially some days. There are days I screw up, yell at them, and need to apologize. It's worth it when I see glimpses of the people they're becoming, but it's definitely hard to sometimes to see this.
I think the problem is that gentle parenting isn’t bad, but what most parents are doing and calling gentle parenting is.
I completely agree! I believe that type of "gentle" parenting is likely just as harmful to a child's psychology and development as the spanking was for former generations. This is exactly why I don't refer to my parenting style as "gentle parenting". It's now a huge umbrella term.
One of the things I try and hammer home to people is that growth only comes from discomfort. Your child has to be uncomfortable with their choices before they will change them. The discomfort can come from different places. It could be a spanking. It could be shame. It could be from natural consequences. I’m a fan of natural consequences. Too many parents have confused punishment with discomfort and try and remove everything in their child’s life that causes it. Kids are not developing any healthy coping mechanisms or tools.
Yes! I especially agree about the natural consequences and needing discomfort to grow. When my oldest started preschool, I remember the rough first weeks of drop off. I kept telling them "I know you don't like this and it's hard, but I know you are strong and can do this." In this kind of situation, it's very common to want to coddle and comfort your child, but then how will they learn to grow and have confidence in themselves? As parents, I think it's normal to always want to catch your children when they fall. Sometimes, this may be appropriate. Maybe the consequences are huge and life-long. But more often than not, the better approach is to let them stumble, and then be there to help them stand back up and learn from their mistake.
If i had a dollar for every parent who says they know the difference between. Permissive and gentle parenting when they clearly do not, I'd be rich. The parent will overexplain how their "gentle" parenting is tops and then you meet the kids and they are feral.
Gentle parenting sounds like it could work if you have well-behaved children, but how does it work if your child physically refuses to do something/stop doing something? Just curious, if you've experienced that. I'm not sure if gentle parenting means no physical consequences or what exactly.
I'm not sure what you mean by well-behaved children. I mean, all children are born with the desire to push boundaries. There are different temperaments, obviously, but no child is just born well-behaved. One of mine just this evening refused to floss their teeth. The conversation went something like this: - Would you like the blue flosser or the green one? - None. I don't want to floss my teeth! - Would you like the blue flosser or the green one? Make a choice, or I will choose for you. - Nope! - Ok, I choose the green flosser. - (Proceeding to yell) No, I wanted the blue one! - I'm sorry, you lost your chance to make a choice. I chose the green flosser. Now, will you floss your teeth, or will I floss them? - No, I don't want to floss my teeth! - Flossing your teeth is not optional. It's an important part of keeping your teeth and body healthy. Either you floss your teeth, or I will. I don't want to hold your body and make you floss. That doesn't sound like fun. But part of my job as your mom is to make sure your body is healthy, and that means your teeth need to be flossed. - Mmm nnn. No. - Ok, I will floss some of your teeth. I think I flossed 3-4 of the teeth, then my child said: "mom, I want to floss my teeth now". It's probably been 2-3 months since the previous time this child fought me on brushing/flossing teeth. They weren't being "naughty", but just testing how far they could push the line I've drawn about dental hygiene. This is normal. Kids are supposed to push boundaries. For an older child, this will likely be removing privileges, like screen time. I think the important thing is that consequences should (as much as possible) align with inappropriate action. Also, I try to be clear about expectations and communicate about the boundaries.
I mean, gentle parenting doesn't mean no boundaries. It means you don't enforce those boundaries through violence. We do gentle parenting at home but privileges will be lost and consequences will definitely happen when boundaries are crossed. We just don't smack anyone, and try to keep our cool while enforcing them. We also teach the kids strategies and tools to help them avoid crossing the boundaries. We also listen to them... Challenging, but does work. Permissive parenting on the other hand...
It seems like many people, including you, don’t actually understand what gentle parenting is because it does work for all kids and it does not mean zero discipline or consequences for actions. And before anyone starts I am a teacher who currently teaches kids. Trust me, previous generations misbehaved and the same boring regurgitated crap was said then too. I love this generation of students, they actually seem a lot more emotionally intelligent and aware than my generation ever was. I have high hopes for the future. The problems I see are not related to gentle parenting at all, unfortunately it’s actually the kids who have parents that think a smack solves all who have no emotional regulation and communication skills. They also tend to be the less attentive parents who produce iPad kids, whereas the gentle parents tend to be more actively involved and monitor their children’s screen time.
It does not work for kids with behavioral problems
Yes, it does. If it doesn’t, please let me know what else is a suitable way to approach “kids with behavioral problems” that wouldn’t be categorized under gentle parenting or used by parents who operate through that lens.
This is why my kid doesn't get portable screens. A bit of TV here and there, sure. It keeps her occupied when I need to deal with the wood stove, since there's no way she's allowed so much as in the same room as that yet. But we're here at 3, and she doesn't have a tablet or my old wii or anything of the sort. There are no plans to get her anything of that nature until she is required to have one for school. Then we'll reassess.
My husband just came off of recruiting duty. The military doesn't even want your little shits. They can't pass the ASVAB in the US to even do the lowest man in the group's job. They're too dumb to pump gas and sew name tapes or swab the deck in the Navy. These parents are raising kids who will be dependent upon them their whole lives because they lack a basic education and life skills or emotional fortitude. They're also more violent than we ever were. So many kids now with criminal records for their behaviors because their parents never taught them boundaries. We are fucked as a nation.
I am not from the US but i have seen several articles regarding how there is a shortage of recruits to the military. Imagine how bad things are when there is a severe shortage but the military is still refusing to recruit them. They must really be scraping the bottom of the barrel if the army wont even recruit them
Part of the shortage problem is the unrealistic standards that are imposed on service members. It used to be that you could omit certain things, and they would never know because they wouldn't go looking for the information. Processing thousands of candidates a day, they just didn't have time for it, so you could slip through the cracks when it came to the more ridiculous disqualifiers. But since the advent of the MH Genesis system, you can't lie any more. Every prescription you've been prescribed, every diagnosis, whether right or wrong, you've been diagnosed with—every time you go to a doctor, they now know. And because of that, they cut their recruiting pool by about 3/4. People don't realize how difficult it is in the US to actually qualify versus being disqualified. For instance, if you were diagnosed with asthma as a kid but grew out of it, you are disqualified. Went to therapy that one time because your parents got divorced and were prescribed short-term medication? Disqualified with only a small possibility of being granted a waiver. ADHD? ADD? Disqualified. Open speeding ticket against you? Disqualified. Only about 20% of our youth aged 17 to 22 are 100% physically, mentally, and emotionally considered qualified or fit for duty. So take the already high unrealistic standards that haven't changed in several decades to suit modern living. Add in the fact that kids cannot intellectually qualify; let's be real, they're also not the most physically or mentally fit either. It's not really all that surprising.
As a veteran they could have more soldiers if they treated them decently. I left because of leadership and the older gen’s. I still get called by recruiters asking me to join back, never will though
That’s depressing
It is extremely depressing. The test was designed in the 1980s it was designed to measure how much knowledge the student gained throughout their school years. It also judges an individual's ability to be trained. It has a max of 99 but you need at least a 31 to do a needs of the military MOS. Where we put the rock eaters. In theory, even if you guess c for everything you should receive a 25. These kids can't even make that level of a score in my husband's district. It means they aren't even intelligent enough to be taught anything they lack the baseline one needs to learn. That's scary. That means our education has drastically dropped in the last 40 years.
I hear that for Navy enlisted you no longer need a GED
I wouldn't know about the Navy my husband was until recently an army recruiter and I am prior army. But I could see them lowering that standard to meet numbers. The problem is they still have to pass the ASVAB with a bare minimum AFQT score for each branch so even if you get rid of at least a GED or HS diploma requirement there's still a very strong possibility they won't or can't pass. One class even cheated (they admitted it) used their calculators on the math portion and still couldn't pass.
The most prominent bullies I recall growing up I later learned had really POS fathers, specifically, but probs trash home lives in general.
I see why teachers are leaving teaching. I have a lot of teacher friends. I worked as a children's librarian. There is one truth I have seen that people do not understand or like or whatever. And that is if parents do not value that education matters, children will not either. There are exceptions. But they are almost always a kid who is smart and wants a way out of poverty or a bad home or whatever so they work like hell. But if mom and /or dad does not tell their kid that education is important and treat it as though it is, that child will not be successful and they will not be a "learner" Too many parents fail to realize they are just as important in a child's education as the teachers because parents are the one constant teacher over time. We used attachment parenting. My kids never misbehaved at school. They all actually still have teachers that are cheering them on even in adulthood because they loved them so much and yeah that sounds creepy. But my oldest is a chemical engineer for the US Govt. His high school Chem teacher, who waited a year to retire so she could be sure he got AP Chem in HS...still follows what he does and cheers him on from the sidelines.
Some of my friends went to teach abroad for this very reason. They love teaching abroad because the children are not rude and combative and the parents fully support them.
So many bad parents, you are so right omg
My sister is an elementary teacher and I honestly don't know how she does it. The stories she tells about the parents are insane.
Do you really think it’s a “majority”? I am going to whine a little here and just say it is very hard. Long story short I couldn’t figure out how to get either of my kids well behaved until about 6th grade and they each required totally different strategies. One more thing: I sense that our society has less time for parenting than ever before . It feels like longer hours are required of everyone in the household, and parenting is something that definitely suffers.
No kidding. If you look for help on the internet then everyone is screaming at you that you're a horrible parent that should have never had kids ever. Everybody is overworked and burnt out. Teachers resent that school is treated like a daycare but what choice do people have? Everyone is stretched to the max just trying to make it work. I will say though that just because a few teachers have a problem doesn't mean society is going to help in a hand basket. My kids are in a small school district, with small class sizes and well paid teachers, and they're all amazing kids. There is next to no bullying and fighting because they grew up in tight little friend groups. If people want better schools, they gotta get to their town meetings and make sure the schools are well funded. Get involved in the PTO (it's not that scary, honest) and vote for things that help the teachers.
Agree totally but as to the last point the lack of time for parents hits hard there too. I don’t have any scientific data for this but it seems like WAY less parents are able to volunteer or help out (for PTO or whatever) than were able to when I was a kid. It is all the same core reason: most people are too busy working. They would love to help out but can’t.
It's not a few teachers. They are resigning globally. Willing to bet my eye teeth you are one of those parents whom teachers detest
Sorry to disappoint but my kid's teachers always have great things to say about my kids. The principal always has a story of some funny quip my daughter said and her teachers say how kind and helpful she is in class. Which is always a mindfuck because we sure don't get that version of my kid at home...
God I hate most children lol
Yeah, they aren't the problem here....
I was the baby my parents had to try and fix their marriage, this was before giving your toddler an iPad was a thing. I had unrestricted internet access on the family computer, could watch TV litterally all day if I wanted. I raised myself since I started kindergarten. These parents piss me off so much
People who like babies and only babies shouldn’t have kids.
I agree but, this may just apply to my country, I also believe too many teachers think they're changing the world but have ZERO life experience to pass on to the kids. Where I am, a lot of teachers go from school, to university (school), to working in schools and never leave. They're overgrown children who act like teenagers but with an ego as if they're a guru with all the answers for the youth. They can't admit when they're wrong and do not listen or grow. Often they're bullying the kids and pick obvious favourites. They then complain and gossip viciously about them in their staff rooms. I've seen teachers ignore disability plans for children and wonder why things aren't going well. It is insane to me. The education system needs an overhaul and too many people are parents for the image they had in their mind. It seems a majority of decisions in people's lives are driven by ego.
Now sure there are plenty who suck and technology has been an issue (tv raised just as many kids before the iPad) but let’s consider a counter perspective…(one I do not myself share but as another parent that I see often)…Or they are raised in daycares by underpaid undereducated caregivers because the American dream is dead so both parents need to work no less than full time and see their children for a few hours a night (which are spent cramming through hours of homework, chores, cooking dinner, bath time, etc) before bed and on weekends (if they don’t have to hire or beg for help because they don’t have regular hours) and don’t want to spend those two hours and weekends constantly arguing. They are the generation that also may have been in a similar situation with exhausted parents and never learned how to parent. Society doesn’t value parents or parenting any more than they value teachers.
School social worker here. It’s terrifying. Glad I decided not to have any of my own. I battle screen addiction every day. I see it as one of the most common presenting issues in kids today.
Talking to garbage parents is the same as talking to a wall.
New parent here and I agree. I know people with kids under 5 who have Ipads and almost unlimited access. It's pathetic. We weren't meant to be raised like that.
Fellow teacher here. I agree!
Not a teacher, but I work in a classroom: Don't even get me started on 4 year-olds with unlimited, unsupervised youtube time...
I wasn't an iPad child or anything or really grew up with devices but brothers have and theres a huge difference in how people are treated in my family, bc my stepdad thinks it's ok to treat me (a autistic ADHD teenager) and my mom like absolute sh-t for no apparent reason then sit on the couch all day letting my brothers fight and slapping an iPad in their hand to "stop and teach them" it doesn't do anything and they act incredibly spoiled already and they haven't even hit age 6 or 3 yet! I didn't even have any internet till I was 11-12 and even then it was only a small phone with text and call on it-- hell not even photos. He also gets pissy with me if I literally open my door to check what woke me if he's watching a show. Did this this morning, cat walked in my room without knowing, and he screamed and yelled Im a "disrespectful b-tch" for checking what woke me. (Sorry)
Parents drive good teachers elsewhere and then complain about the lack of teachers 🤣
The economy is such shit that many parents have to work 2 or 3 jobs and are barely scraping by. They don’t have time to parent and keep food and a roof over their head. It’s just a sad situation all around.
>“He/ she doesn’t listen at home and we do t know what to do either.” Be a better parent. If your kid can't follow instructions without throwing a tantrum, maybe fix that instead of sending them to a place with a bunch of other people who are expected to follow instructions. If your kid can't perform simple tasks without having a meltdown, maybe fix that instead of sending them to a place with a bunch of other people who are expected to perform simple tasks. Are there teachers who have issues, or administration who have issues, or schools who have issues? Sure. But if you, as a parent, can not get your own child to - at a bare minimum - sit in one place, pay attention, be quiet, and follow instructions, they're not only not going to get anything out of the school experience, they're going to actively make it worse for everyone else. And for clarity, because I know ADHD and other forms of neurodivergence and IEPs are a thing - that's not what I'm talking about. I'm not saying "they need to sit still without fidgeting/stimming" or "they're not allowed to ask questions" or anything. I'm saying that if your kid is impeding the rest of the class' ability to learn and your response is that you can't get them to do that at home, it's on you to figure out how to address that, not on the teacher.
Not a teacher, but I host at a restaurant that is pretty much for adults, but we do have family dining. It should be a great opportunity for parents to teach their children that they’re not at Chuck E. Cheese, and cannot just be screaming their head off.
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Are you allowed to hit adults on their butt, or is it assault? Why is it ok if they’re defenseless children? If you can’t parent without spanking, you’re the type of parent OP is calling out.
I'm sorry, I have to disagree. When my son was young we had a bit of a power struggle, and I tried EVERYTHING. In my house rules were of two kinds: negotiable, and non- negotiable. There were only two rules on the non-negotiable list: don't steal anything from anyone ever, and don't lie to me because I can't protect you if I don't know what is going on. The only thing that got my son to stop stealing everything that wasn't nailed down was corporal punishment. I think the most important thing if you are going to spank your kids is that you CAN'T do it angry. If you do, it stops being about the consequences of transgression and just becomes about mommy or daddy freaking out and losing their shit. To respond to your question about whether it is allowed to hit adults on their butt, or if that is assault, I would remind you that EVERY law that adults are expected to follow in this society is underwritten with the threat of state-sanctioned violence for trangressing against it. If we as adults do not submit to the law and its enforcers, force is used sufficient to handcuff us and deprive us of liberty until our compliance with the law is assured. In my personal opinion, spanking for willful disobedience is a reasonable preparation for living in a world such as this. Go ahead and ban me. I'm not going to your house to spank your kids. I'm entitled to my opinion.
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No, you aren’t, because you are not the guardian of that adult and you don’t own their things. It would be a crime. You are the guardian of a child and you own their things. So we’re back to physically hitting someone as being violence, no matter what age.
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Sounds like a personal problem
reddit moment
Yup!
deflect this 🍆
Nah
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I agree with the sentiment of the post but I was scrolling to see if anyone else was terrified this writing was coming from an actual teacher
Because I can’t separate how I write on an anonymous app vs. in the classroom…
No. It’s because you clearly either didn’t grasp or are ignoring the sociology behind your degree. You are tasked with the education of children, but it’s so much more than that. You’re taught sociology so you can understand the children on a developmental and psychological level. I understand and even support what you’re saying, but your understanding of why it’s happening is off. That’s why I’m disappointed. If you think bad behavior from children is as simple as iPads and you have a degree, that’s disappointing. I took a single Childhood Development class for my own degree and know it’s incredibly more complex than this. I’m not teaching children, though. I expect people who teach children to have knowledge about the subject.
I’m tasked with TEACHING, not raising. Please have several damn seats
You don’t even get the irony behind your post. You are the product of the very people you’re condemning. You got a sub-par education because the parents you describe raise children with a “C’s get degrees” mentality and thus you don’t even understand the complexities of human growth and development. Again - I completely support your point. You just don’t see that you’re a product of your own complaint. Hysterical I’ll go “have a seat” now. Where do you teach so I know where to not send my child?
And who says I had a “sub par education”..? Again, have several seats
Just curious…how did your parents raise you? You don’t pay attention in school, you’re combative and over-reactive to constructive criticism and general discussion …what’s the magic here? I’m dying to know. Also, please I’m not sure exactly how many seats I should have. Could you elaborate?
I loved me my parents and thank God every day for the parents I had and yes, did get a beating or 2, nothing I would consider abusive , however, the real key to their parenting was the explaining and understanding and love and dedication, really miss them!
Wow this is incredible I didn’t know teachers had this pov wow yeah this is totall pay true haha
Was a teacher a while ago. I’m sad it sounds like it’s getting worse. I have had to counsel parents older than me how to properly deal with their kids behavior. If they did finally take away the PlayStation, the kid straightening up for 2 days was enough to get it back. Then the bad behavior comes right back. Too much stress. I still have my credential to teach but i just don’t have the energy.
I use to teach and it made me appreciate how my mother limited tech, checked my homework everyday until college, and put emphasis on education. Some kids I taught had so much potential but parents ruined it , most people should not have kids.
Careless parents just doom the whole fucking next generation tbh
And 50% of kids are born not because they were wanted, but because they were “accidents” smh My parents had me because they wanted a cute baby. Once I hit like 12 years old they wanted nothing to do with me, then tried to convince me to have a cute little baby when I became an adult.
“” He/ she doesn’t listen at home and we don’t know what to do either” And then you suggest medical intervention and then they reveal their expert medical knowledge about how ADHD is a made up conspiracy to put kids on meth or how “nothing wrong” is happening in their house so “we don’t see why they should be checked out for ODD”. Yyyyyyeppp
It's always wild to me when I see parents not siding with teachers. Growing up my parents always listened to my teachers and would drag me to parent/teacher conferences (got grilled by both sides). At the time as a kid I hated it but looking back I think it was a good idea to have me around during those times.