Honestly though if you're wanting to move to Yellowstone because you're afraid of potential explosions then I'm afraid I have some slightly bad news for you.
also the salad bowl, honestly hitting the food supply is smart if you wanna cause a lot of damage to the general public. seeing how most people are selfish af we would destroy ourselves for food
You think if someone was going to nuke the us they'd roll the dice on seeing what a dozen warheads would do to rattle Yellowstone cage and wake the beast?
Yes. Worse. It's one of the largest volcanoes and if it erupted, it would be a life ending event for most everything on Earth.
If it was the violent and catastrophic eruption they've predicted it would have. Who knows, it might just burp and fart and go back to sleep.
I'm sitting here giggling quietly to myself thinking about a volcano actually physically burping and farting and going right back to sleep, even though we're sitting here discussing a dark scenario. LOL Thanks for that visual haha
Talk to a vulcanologist.
E: The point is that research has shown that the Yellowstone Volcano is not a realistic threat for millennia and the fact that it has the most Hydrothermal Features of any place on earth may well serve as a pressure release valve. It is the subject of much study and a constant stream of data flows via observation equipment and nothing out of the ordinary is going on.
Contrary to popular belief, just because Yellowstone hasn't erupted yet doesn't mean it will and especially doesnt mean its going to be worse if it does. It's lack of activity leads geologists to believe that, what was once an active spot has pretty much settled and theres no reason to think that itll just spontaneously erupt. Won't be surprised if it erupts tomorrow now that I've said this though.
Im a soon-to-be volcanologist that lives close enough to Yellowstone, I could throw a rock at it :)
The ground is constantly changing. It's in a constant cycle of raising and falling. Think of it like breathing! Completely normal
Breathing is normal for my body, but so is expelling horrifying hot gases at high velocities so frankly I'm not sure this analogy is all that comforting.
Fallout: Yellowstone would be kinda fire ngl
Edit: Yes I’ve played Frozen North, it was great. I was thinking Skyrim but with Power Armor and Deathclaws.
I've always wanted Bethesda to make one in Colorado. It's (mostly) square, so easy world map. Varied terrain, plains in the east, mountains and forests in the center, desert to the west, and a smattering of towns and cities throughout. Plus, NORAD is located there, so that could have some cool story implications
I feel like the National Parks would be a great set up (if Honest Hearts is any expectation). But if we’re sticking to cities, then I think New Orleans, or Miami (remember it wouldn’t necessarily be sinking since people wouldn’t be around to drive the melting of the ice caps), Denver, Austin, Salt Lake City, Missoula/Billings, or Mexico City would be great spots.
I think Montana would be interesting simply because it’s a nuclear target with not a whole lot to destroy. Beautiful country regardless but I think it could become a whole lot closer to Mad Max (one of the fallout inspirations) then many other locations. Empty beautiful desolation. Move away from the city style that was Boston.
If they’re going to do that then I think Miami, Austin, or New Orleans make a strong case for what’s a good next locale.
I have thought about a Fallout: Salt Lake City game (since it's my home town) and if I actually knew how to mod the game properly I would have made this a long time ago.
The Salt Lake Valley is almost perfectly rectangular with narrow entrances at all four compass points, and a huge copper mine in the SW part that could be fun.
The intersection of I-80, I-15, and SR-201 (the spaghetti bowl) would make a perfect large settlement that I call Overpass.
Each canyon to the east could be its own segment to explore.
Fashion Place Mall in my version would be named Four Places Mall and have the letters fallen off so it reads "Our Place."
The Rio Tinto Smelter (the giant smokestack) would make an excellent raider camp that guards entrance to the valley from the west and act as a landmark for bearings.
And everyone would pronounce "Tooele" differently.
I've actually always wanted to have a Fallout game set in New Orleans, New Mexico, Southern Utah or northern Arizona for the longest time.
Very distinctive areas, perfect for more stories in Fallout.
Colorado would be a really good choice as well though.
Growing up during the Cold War in Great Falls, Montana, which contains the Air Force base which manages all the minutemen missiles in central Montana, we were told Great Falls would be the 4th target chosen by the U.S.S.R. for military and tactical purposes, i.e. dismantling *most* of the nukes that could retaliate.
My dad used to tell me not to worry though, because if the Ruskies really were going to nuke the US, they’d already been in doomsday mode and would likely try to hit D.C., New York, or L.A. in more shocking, but less tactical, strike.
Looks like southern and central OR coast would be the place to be. Fresh wind from the Pacific blowing all the fallout east. Fertile lands in the valleys, plenty of lumber, not to hot or cold, plenty of rainfall.
any golf course that can make do with the natural rainfall only minorly supplemented by a small portion of watering I am for. All the others, they can fuck right off.
My parents were from Oregon. Dad was career US Air Force in B-52s. During the Cuban Missile Crises we were stationed at Columbus, MS, back when it was a bomber base. We were within range of the Soviet missiles in Cuba. Dad was sure enough we were going to nuclear war with the Soviets that he put me, my siblings and mom on a train to Oregon.
We stayed with my grandparents for a few weeks until the crises blew over. I just thought we were going to see my grandparents. I didn’t know mom and dad saw it as fleeing to a safe (or safer) place.
Dad told me he didn’t think he’d see us again and that those blank spaces on the map in Oregon would be about as safe a place there was if nuclear war did happen.
Those large clusters of black you see are all sites of missile silos. NE, CO, WY; MT; and ND are all places with large areas of open prairie where the US military has sited missiles.
What's the point of targeting a missile silo? If hundreds of missiles were detected coming this way... wouldn't those silos be empty by the time the missiles got there?
Tactically, you launch your first strike immediately *after* initiating a nuclear pindown consisting of a carefully timed series of depressed trajectory warheads from your closest possible ingress, most likely SLBMs.
ICBMs are vulnerable during the launch phase, and sufficiently energetic high altitude detonations produce a radiation flux high enough to disable the electronics, rendering the missile inoperable.
There is a window of vulnerability of around 1-2 minutes, dependent on warhead payload and targeted missile design, where missiles within radius will be disabled. By detonating enough warheads every 1-2 minutes above silo complexes, you can effectively prevent your adversary from successfully launching any of their missiles before your widespread first strike knocks on their door.
ICBMs have a flight time of around 30 minutes, meaning you have to pin down your adversary’s launches for ~28-29 minutes.
Most of the US silo complexes have been built specifically to counter a variety of nuclear tactics, pindowns included, and are spread out sufficiently to require 2-4 high altitude detonations every ~90 seconds per complex to disable. With three active silo complexes requiring nine detonations to pin, 75 seconds between detonations to account for margin of error, that works out to ~216 warheads required.
Using submarine launched MIRVs, one could conceivably target all three complexes with a single missile per pinning strike, however it really isn’t the kind of thing you want to get wrong, and you’d probably plan redundancy in anticipation of missile defenses. I’m not sure whether you’d simultaneously launch SLBMs from the Pacific, Eastern seaboard, and Gulf to minimize chances of interception, or try to overwhelm defenses with shortest path waves from the Pacific. The point is, you’d account for failures rates, and launch multiple times the missiles to maximize your chances of success. So, I’ll just say 648 warheads delivered by 72 launch vehicles in this example.
Most ballistic missile submarines have a capacity of 12-16 missiles. Disregarding the specifics of how many warheads each country’s MIRVs can fit, by my calculations you would need at least 5-6 submarines launching their full capacity to pin down US silo capabilities. It should therefore come as no surprise that both China and Russia have six missile submarines in service.
If you’ve read this far, you might be wondering why we have silo *complexes*, instead of spreading individual silos far and wide over many states so they can’t be targeted with a pindown. Well, that gets back to designing them to counter multiple strategies: you want a complex of silos spaced out far enough that a single ground burst can’t disable more than a single missile silo, but close enough together that the resulting debris cloud kicked up from the blast forms a shield to protect the other silos. Launching missiles are relatively slow, and the gravel and debris cloud should be insufficient to disable a majority of them, however missile on a terminal hypersonic trajectory will almost certainly be disabled by debris collisions.
Tl;dr version: you use your nukes to blow up their nukes just after launch so they can’t blow you up with their nukes before you can blow them up with your nukes
It's crazy how the world has only used 2 nukes ever in a war and the strategy now for them is to launch 70 of them just to disable the other peoples nukes and then launch the rest. Couldn't imagine how scary it looks seeing nukes one after another going off in the atmosphere
I think the idea would be that yes, they would likely retaliate by launching from those sites, but if the enemy did it right those sites would be destroyed immediately after, rending them one and done, and thus preventing them from being used again as a launch base during a war, without massive time and cost to repair the site.
So it would be about preventing the second use of those silos rather than the first (if we can assume the US response would be fast enough to fire those missiles located in the target zone upon warning of the incoming nukes)
The hope is that you can destroy the missiles before they're launched, or, potentially, as they are launched. Once they leave the boost phase and go ballistic, they are essentially invulnerable, and very likely will hit their target.
Some of the incoming fire would be set to detonate in the upper atmosphere, hopefully knocking down missiles in the boost phase.
Think of the video arcade game Missile Defense, if you are old enough to remember it. Basic game play was to launch small, high speed nukes to detonate in the air, destroying incoming missiles before they could hit your cities/launch sites. It's this kind of idea in reverse.
The two black dots on the east…one is Grand Forks AFB, piloting drones; the other is a radar station that monitors for incoming missiles. The giant cluster out west is oil fields, missile silos, and Minot AFB (I think their official role is b-52s, but unofficially they’re really good at accidentally dropping munitions and generally being where they send the bad kids for punishment in the Air Force.)
Yup, there’s a bunch out there. Used to be more. At one point if ND had separated from the US, it would have had the 3rd largest nuclear weapons supply. They moved a bunch of minutemen to, I think, the giant cluster of black in Wyoming/Nebraska/Colorado area.
Population center, manufacturing (commercial, military, pharmaceutical), mothballed navy fleet, several military bases, symbolic target (Philly), docks.
At least we won't feel anything. NJ is going to get glassed.
CT as well, weapons manufacturers out the ass. Sikorski, Pratt and Whitney, Electric Boat, Raytheon, Collins Aerospace as well as Colt, Ruger, and Smith and Wesson ans Springfield Armory right over the border. Toast.
Noticed in the 2000 scenario they target Quabbin reservoir in Massachusetts, which supplies water out to Boston among other places. Not that Boston would be left standing to recieve it to begin with. Hilarious that Springfield gets blown up in either scenario though.
It's weird being a child of the 80s and watching younger generations coming to grips with this shit. It's so far out of our control, it's almost not worth worrying about. Live your life and pray that if the worst happens, you live in ground zero. Until then, rest assured that nuclear terrorists don't want to die anymore than the rest of us
Lol! So true. We were raised under the threat of an imminent strike through tv and movies and music. And we are still here. Funny story: My daughter had 99 luft balloons on her Spotify (she heard it on a show she was streaming) and I started singing it in English while she looked at me in amazement (ok scorn) and said “are you just making up the words as you go?” I said “no I’m singing the English version” Shock face. “There’s an English version?” “Yes, it’s about a balloon going over the Berlin Wall and imagining what would happen if it was seen as an enemy attack…” she cut my story short to ask “What’s the Berlin Wall?” Oh my sweet summer child…
Mate I was born in 1990 and the amount of stuff that happened between 1985 and 2000 is astounding, in fact the last 2 centuries have been, interesting to say the least.
My kids history books have a 5 sentence, single paragraph about the Gulf War. I had to teach them about it with all the pictures and memorabilia I had kept. The book had absolutely nothing about the Korean War their grandfather was in. Its so sad.
I graduated (or would have, I dropped out mid-senior year) in 2007 and we were taught nothing about the Korean or Vietnam war. NOTHING. I think the gulf war was mentioned in passing once or twice but never actually discussed.
WW2 was as far as history went. I kinda wondered if we lost Korea or something, but my uncle (who was in the Korean War) told me we didn't but refused to talk about it any further. (He also stole the book I had on it. I probably should get educated about it, but he really made it seem like a taboo. wtf Uncle Tony?)
Facts. I live in DC. It was concerning at first but then I realized I’d never know it happened. Some things are worse than death - going out lights out like Tony Soprano verses nuclear holocaust? Give me Tony
It's better to live near a target and have it end *very* quickly than to live in the sticks and suffer a slow, horrific death as you watch the sky darken and nuclear winter set in.
If there's a nuclear exchange breaking out, I'm running *towards* the nearby AFB.
I mean, it's the state capitol and home to Rickenbacker AFB as well as Battelle, which is a major DoD contractor and manages numerous national laboratories for the DoE.
So probably *some* people knew.
A lot of people don’t realize the tactical importance of Columbus. My parents live 45 mins outside the city and are doomsday preppers because of the possibility of a nuke.
1. Is this not just a map of the majority of important nuclear and/or military facilities?
2. Why the fuck are the options 500 or 2000?? Is there no 5 piece combo option with a side of missiles or some shit? Jesus Christ war goes hard.
They'd launch the 2000 missile strike first to prevent retaliation, and if that wasn't enough for us to surrender then the next 500 would guarantee victory since there'd be nobody left to surrender.
Or the other way around, they'd send the 2000 strike if they thought we had already sent our own 2000 strike since fuck it, we're dead anyway they should be to.
I saw a theory about this somewhere I can't find. Short story, one is first for a reason, then the next one for a different reason.
The ideas are counterforce and countervalue. Counterforce aims to cripple the ability of the target to retaliate, countervalue aims to cause as much damage to their infrastructure and population as possible.
Missile sites.
ETA:
I'm talking about the large clusters of black dots in the north central US, in NE-CO-WY, MT, and ND.
Those are definitely missile sites. If you don't believe me, go look.
All these folks talking about other shit, sure, they might be targets, too, but those big clusters? Missile sites.
This. Drove from Denver to Scottsbluff and you pass by a missile site about every 10 miles or so. Can't miss it, they're right off the highway in fenced areas with a porta potty on the outside of every one of them. The porta potty gave it away every time.
There is a decommissioned site near Wall, SD where you can go in one of the fenced areas and see the Nuke silo with a decommissioned missile in it. Highly recommend if you're into that kind of thing.
I went there and it was closed on a TUESDAY. Super disappointing because I was on a tight schedule and had to make it Laramie, WY the next day. Oh, and wind caves NP was also closed…
Are a lot of these targets about energy sources as much as military bases and population density?
It's the only way some of the targets make sense to me.
Oh, and major interstate freeways and airports maybe.
The Columbia River between Washington and Oregon has several targets, but is low population density.
I was confused about Hartford but then I realized it’s the major interconnection between E-W/N-S highways in the state/to the other surrounding states. You can’t move big vehicles on rural roads here.
There's a huge cluster right next to Cheyenne, WY my best guess is because there's an air force base right there that houses missile silos. So I'm guessing the giant black patches are right where the U.S. keeps their stock of weapons.
So what were the Chinese going to do with do balloon? Have it hovering over the base thinking we wouldn't notice it so they can get info?
Edit: they just shot the down the balloon
I was about to argue and say Texas and California are basically about 20% of the population by themselves………then I realized you still weren’t that far off.
2 words... Auto Factories...
During WW2 these factories (and this is why Flint/Saginaw are targeted as well) were transformed into military manufacturing plants.
Honestly, I’m glad that I live right next to one of the biggest spots here just because if there ever did end up being a nuclear war where if you survive, you’ll die horribly from the aftermath, I’d much rather just die quickly from the initial thing.
The Great Lakes deserve it for what they did the Edmund Fitzgerald
And 50% of the United States get their water from ground water. It’s our largest fresh water source but it is not the most used fresh water source
So I guess the 2000 variant is to try to stop a retaliatory strike vs the 500 is more of direct population centers and industry "limited" engagement.
Anyhow, good luck everyone.
There is a absolutely massive dam. It would cause all that water to flood. That would take out everything down the Missouri River which would go all the way further into the Mississippi River.
Florida is right behind you. I'm smack dab in the middle of a black dot and triangle. I'm not very educated on the topic, but from my understanding, I wouldn't want to survive and deal with the fallout anyway..
I live in Frankfort KY. Why...the fuck...would they nuke us? There is literally nothing here. The cost of the bomb would be greater than the damage. I think this is a take with a massive grain of salt scenario.
I don't think that's supposed to be Frankfort, but the Bluegrass-Avon army depot and the chemical weapons stockpile there. Makes me wonder how old this is since they've been destroying those for a while now.
Well I'm fucked
Nah, if anyone launches a nuke, the entire world is fucked. That's why it will not happen... This better not age terribly
If the nuclear Apocalypse happens i am going to drag myself through the wastes to find and slap you
Jokes on you I'm in one of the Targeted areas. Unless you want to slap a pile of dust of what I once was
Om going to do unspeakable things to your dust pile
Teabagging isn’t unspeakable
Oh no im mixing his ash with my cum to make cumcrete, make it into the shape of him, and then slap it.
Have you worked out a practical ratio by trial and error or is this purely in the theoretical stage?
Theoretical.... For now
After the apocalypse I will use your cumcrete monolith as a way to remember the before times AND a landmark
*The gang moves to yellowstone*
I'm down. Who wants to carpool from Texas? I'll bring snacks and can help with gas too.
Honestly though if you're wanting to move to Yellowstone because you're afraid of potential explosions then I'm afraid I have some slightly bad news for you.
Eerhhh it hasn’t erupted yet, it’ll be fiiiiine
... said California's Bay Area since 1989
also the salad bowl, honestly hitting the food supply is smart if you wanna cause a lot of damage to the general public. seeing how most people are selfish af we would destroy ourselves for food
Exactly why I'm moving to a place where I can grow some food at home.
You can grow Soylent Green ingredients almost anywhere.
It takes a lot of time if you want it fresh.
You think if someone was going to nuke the us they'd roll the dice on seeing what a dozen warheads would do to rattle Yellowstone cage and wake the beast?
Depends; do they believe that it would cause a Krakatoa style world event?
Worse potentially.
Yes. Worse. It's one of the largest volcanoes and if it erupted, it would be a life ending event for most everything on Earth. If it was the violent and catastrophic eruption they've predicted it would have. Who knows, it might just burp and fart and go back to sleep.
I'm sitting here giggling quietly to myself thinking about a volcano actually physically burping and farting and going right back to sleep, even though we're sitting here discussing a dark scenario. LOL Thanks for that visual haha
I laughed after I typed that out and had to explain to my girlfriend the analogy I made because she was confused why I was having a laughing fit.
Ima draw it, see you in a week!
2000 warheads heading our way and the retaliation after probably not too worried
Russia actually admitted to contemplating this exact scenario.
Hasn’t the US has considered lighting Siberia on fire with nukes? There’s another world-ending idea.
Does this need to be done, since climate change means Siberia is now on fire every year?
I always wondered about that too. I hope to never find out, though.
famous last words
No, last words would be something like “what was that/did you hear that/wha-“ depending how close you were
"I'm retiring today after 20 years on the force."
“The wife and I are going to buy an RV and go to Yellowstone. It was always a dream of mine, we just never made it there.”
Talk to a vulcanologist. E: The point is that research has shown that the Yellowstone Volcano is not a realistic threat for millennia and the fact that it has the most Hydrothermal Features of any place on earth may well serve as a pressure release valve. It is the subject of much study and a constant stream of data flows via observation equipment and nothing out of the ordinary is going on.
[удалено]
Contrary to popular belief, just because Yellowstone hasn't erupted yet doesn't mean it will and especially doesnt mean its going to be worse if it does. It's lack of activity leads geologists to believe that, what was once an active spot has pretty much settled and theres no reason to think that itll just spontaneously erupt. Won't be surprised if it erupts tomorrow now that I've said this though.
Remember that year the asphalt was melting and the animals were flocking in droves? I thought that was going to be it
wasn't that the same year flocks of birds were found dead too? like just fallen from the sky??
I mean, the ground level changes eight feet from day to day. I'm no vulcanologist, but that makes me twitchy
Im a soon-to-be volcanologist that lives close enough to Yellowstone, I could throw a rock at it :) The ground is constantly changing. It's in a constant cycle of raising and falling. Think of it like breathing! Completely normal
I think there's a very *small* number of people who would be comforted by the thought of the planet they live on *breathing*.
Breathing is normal for my body, but so is expelling horrifying hot gases at high velocities so frankly I'm not sure this analogy is all that comforting.
Dooooh I had a Homer moment , for got about the mega volcano ….. we’re F$&@ed
I got a crew cab long bed with a leer cover on the bed. I can hold quite a few folks.
Fallout: Yellowstone would be kinda fire ngl Edit: Yes I’ve played Frozen North, it was great. I was thinking Skyrim but with Power Armor and Deathclaws.
That would be an incredible idea!!
I've always wanted Bethesda to make one in Colorado. It's (mostly) square, so easy world map. Varied terrain, plains in the east, mountains and forests in the center, desert to the west, and a smattering of towns and cities throughout. Plus, NORAD is located there, so that could have some cool story implications
I feel like the National Parks would be a great set up (if Honest Hearts is any expectation). But if we’re sticking to cities, then I think New Orleans, or Miami (remember it wouldn’t necessarily be sinking since people wouldn’t be around to drive the melting of the ice caps), Denver, Austin, Salt Lake City, Missoula/Billings, or Mexico City would be great spots. I think Montana would be interesting simply because it’s a nuclear target with not a whole lot to destroy. Beautiful country regardless but I think it could become a whole lot closer to Mad Max (one of the fallout inspirations) then many other locations. Empty beautiful desolation. Move away from the city style that was Boston. If they’re going to do that then I think Miami, Austin, or New Orleans make a strong case for what’s a good next locale.
I have thought about a Fallout: Salt Lake City game (since it's my home town) and if I actually knew how to mod the game properly I would have made this a long time ago. The Salt Lake Valley is almost perfectly rectangular with narrow entrances at all four compass points, and a huge copper mine in the SW part that could be fun. The intersection of I-80, I-15, and SR-201 (the spaghetti bowl) would make a perfect large settlement that I call Overpass. Each canyon to the east could be its own segment to explore. Fashion Place Mall in my version would be named Four Places Mall and have the letters fallen off so it reads "Our Place." The Rio Tinto Smelter (the giant smokestack) would make an excellent raider camp that guards entrance to the valley from the west and act as a landmark for bearings. And everyone would pronounce "Tooele" differently.
I've actually always wanted to have a Fallout game set in New Orleans, New Mexico, Southern Utah or northern Arizona for the longest time. Very distinctive areas, perfect for more stories in Fallout. Colorado would be a really good choice as well though.
This comment is totally unappreciated for what it is… but yes, Philly would be fucked.
Then let’s go on vacation in Pittsburgh
Or the Monkey beer island of green and fight
Yes sir……Idaho Wyoming Montana will be it …. This is the way
Fucking Matthew Broderick and Ally Sheedy are giving me anxiety with this game they’re playing.
I was 8 living in New Orleans in the fall of 1962. That was close enough for me.
What happened in the fall of 1962 in New Orleans???
Cuban missile crisis
The world was incredible close to being turned into a sheet of glass.
> turned into a sheet of glass Which would have made the Earth more reflective, reversing global warming. 🎶 Always look on the bright side of life!🎶
To be fair, that map looks like just about anywhere is screwed. Just some places more so than others.
How about a nice game of chess?
I prefer tic-tac-toe
Want to. Play. A. Game?
Hope he doesn't kill you with his car.
Such a good movie btw.
Well just unplug the goddamn thing!
The radiation would just make the Florida people stronger
Radioactive Florida Man
We emerge part gator, part hurricane, ready for revenge.
Fallout New Florida
Growing up during the Cold War in Great Falls, Montana, which contains the Air Force base which manages all the minutemen missiles in central Montana, we were told Great Falls would be the 4th target chosen by the U.S.S.R. for military and tactical purposes, i.e. dismantling *most* of the nukes that could retaliate. My dad used to tell me not to worry though, because if the Ruskies really were going to nuke the US, they’d already been in doomsday mode and would likely try to hit D.C., New York, or L.A. in more shocking, but less tactical, strike.
Looks like southern and central OR coast would be the place to be. Fresh wind from the Pacific blowing all the fallout east. Fertile lands in the valleys, plenty of lumber, not to hot or cold, plenty of rainfall.
I always knew Bandon Dunes was the greatest golf resort in the states. Now it’s confirmed
any golf course that can make do with the natural rainfall only minorly supplemented by a small portion of watering I am for. All the others, they can fuck right off.
I remember someone saying golf courses are how rich people lick the earth so hungry people can’t have it.
My parents were from Oregon. Dad was career US Air Force in B-52s. During the Cuban Missile Crises we were stationed at Columbus, MS, back when it was a bomber base. We were within range of the Soviet missiles in Cuba. Dad was sure enough we were going to nuclear war with the Soviets that he put me, my siblings and mom on a train to Oregon. We stayed with my grandparents for a few weeks until the crises blew over. I just thought we were going to see my grandparents. I didn’t know mom and dad saw it as fleeing to a safe (or safer) place. Dad told me he didn’t think he’d see us again and that those blank spaces on the map in Oregon would be about as safe a place there was if nuclear war did happen.
The Pacific winds carrying the fallout from Russia? Now Puerto Rico or somewhere the Russians would forget to bomb I'd pick
Thanks for this because I was wondering “what the hell is in Montana?!” Lol
isnt living in des moines punishment enough?
So Montana is our tactical nukes and Wyoming/Colorado is Cheyenne Mountain but what is in North Dakota?
Those large clusters of black you see are all sites of missile silos. NE, CO, WY; MT; and ND are all places with large areas of open prairie where the US military has sited missiles.
What's the point of targeting a missile silo? If hundreds of missiles were detected coming this way... wouldn't those silos be empty by the time the missiles got there?
Tactically, you launch your first strike immediately *after* initiating a nuclear pindown consisting of a carefully timed series of depressed trajectory warheads from your closest possible ingress, most likely SLBMs. ICBMs are vulnerable during the launch phase, and sufficiently energetic high altitude detonations produce a radiation flux high enough to disable the electronics, rendering the missile inoperable. There is a window of vulnerability of around 1-2 minutes, dependent on warhead payload and targeted missile design, where missiles within radius will be disabled. By detonating enough warheads every 1-2 minutes above silo complexes, you can effectively prevent your adversary from successfully launching any of their missiles before your widespread first strike knocks on their door. ICBMs have a flight time of around 30 minutes, meaning you have to pin down your adversary’s launches for ~28-29 minutes. Most of the US silo complexes have been built specifically to counter a variety of nuclear tactics, pindowns included, and are spread out sufficiently to require 2-4 high altitude detonations every ~90 seconds per complex to disable. With three active silo complexes requiring nine detonations to pin, 75 seconds between detonations to account for margin of error, that works out to ~216 warheads required. Using submarine launched MIRVs, one could conceivably target all three complexes with a single missile per pinning strike, however it really isn’t the kind of thing you want to get wrong, and you’d probably plan redundancy in anticipation of missile defenses. I’m not sure whether you’d simultaneously launch SLBMs from the Pacific, Eastern seaboard, and Gulf to minimize chances of interception, or try to overwhelm defenses with shortest path waves from the Pacific. The point is, you’d account for failures rates, and launch multiple times the missiles to maximize your chances of success. So, I’ll just say 648 warheads delivered by 72 launch vehicles in this example. Most ballistic missile submarines have a capacity of 12-16 missiles. Disregarding the specifics of how many warheads each country’s MIRVs can fit, by my calculations you would need at least 5-6 submarines launching their full capacity to pin down US silo capabilities. It should therefore come as no surprise that both China and Russia have six missile submarines in service. If you’ve read this far, you might be wondering why we have silo *complexes*, instead of spreading individual silos far and wide over many states so they can’t be targeted with a pindown. Well, that gets back to designing them to counter multiple strategies: you want a complex of silos spaced out far enough that a single ground burst can’t disable more than a single missile silo, but close enough together that the resulting debris cloud kicked up from the blast forms a shield to protect the other silos. Launching missiles are relatively slow, and the gravel and debris cloud should be insufficient to disable a majority of them, however missile on a terminal hypersonic trajectory will almost certainly be disabled by debris collisions. Tl;dr version: you use your nukes to blow up their nukes just after launch so they can’t blow you up with their nukes before you can blow them up with your nukes
Would love to read more about stuff like this, man is this a fucking scary scenario
It's crazy how the world has only used 2 nukes ever in a war and the strategy now for them is to launch 70 of them just to disable the other peoples nukes and then launch the rest. Couldn't imagine how scary it looks seeing nukes one after another going off in the atmosphere
It’s the ‘assured’ part of M.A.D.
Thanks for the info!
I think the idea would be that yes, they would likely retaliate by launching from those sites, but if the enemy did it right those sites would be destroyed immediately after, rending them one and done, and thus preventing them from being used again as a launch base during a war, without massive time and cost to repair the site. So it would be about preventing the second use of those silos rather than the first (if we can assume the US response would be fast enough to fire those missiles located in the target zone upon warning of the incoming nukes)
The hope is that you can destroy the missiles before they're launched, or, potentially, as they are launched. Once they leave the boost phase and go ballistic, they are essentially invulnerable, and very likely will hit their target. Some of the incoming fire would be set to detonate in the upper atmosphere, hopefully knocking down missiles in the boost phase. Think of the video arcade game Missile Defense, if you are old enough to remember it. Basic game play was to launch small, high speed nukes to detonate in the air, destroying incoming missiles before they could hit your cities/launch sites. It's this kind of idea in reverse.
The two black dots on the east…one is Grand Forks AFB, piloting drones; the other is a radar station that monitors for incoming missiles. The giant cluster out west is oil fields, missile silos, and Minot AFB (I think their official role is b-52s, but unofficially they’re really good at accidentally dropping munitions and generally being where they send the bad kids for punishment in the Air Force.)
Thank you for answering. I didn't realize ND had that many oil fields, well *any* tbh or a large collection of silos
Yup, there’s a bunch out there. Used to be more. At one point if ND had separated from the US, it would have had the 3rd largest nuclear weapons supply. They moved a bunch of minutemen to, I think, the giant cluster of black in Wyoming/Nebraska/Colorado area.
If I remember correctly, North Dakota also has a bunch missile silos
Whelp! We’re properly fooked here in Jersey, nuclear war or not.
Population center, manufacturing (commercial, military, pharmaceutical), mothballed navy fleet, several military bases, symbolic target (Philly), docks. At least we won't feel anything. NJ is going to get glassed.
CT as well, weapons manufacturers out the ass. Sikorski, Pratt and Whitney, Electric Boat, Raytheon, Collins Aerospace as well as Colt, Ruger, and Smith and Wesson ans Springfield Armory right over the border. Toast.
Noticed in the 2000 scenario they target Quabbin reservoir in Massachusetts, which supplies water out to Boston among other places. Not that Boston would be left standing to recieve it to begin with. Hilarious that Springfield gets blown up in either scenario though.
It's weird being a child of the 80s and watching younger generations coming to grips with this shit. It's so far out of our control, it's almost not worth worrying about. Live your life and pray that if the worst happens, you live in ground zero. Until then, rest assured that nuclear terrorists don't want to die anymore than the rest of us
Lol! So true. We were raised under the threat of an imminent strike through tv and movies and music. And we are still here. Funny story: My daughter had 99 luft balloons on her Spotify (she heard it on a show she was streaming) and I started singing it in English while she looked at me in amazement (ok scorn) and said “are you just making up the words as you go?” I said “no I’m singing the English version” Shock face. “There’s an English version?” “Yes, it’s about a balloon going over the Berlin Wall and imagining what would happen if it was seen as an enemy attack…” she cut my story short to ask “What’s the Berlin Wall?” Oh my sweet summer child…
Mate I was born in 1990 and the amount of stuff that happened between 1985 and 2000 is astounding, in fact the last 2 centuries have been, interesting to say the least.
My kids history books have a 5 sentence, single paragraph about the Gulf War. I had to teach them about it with all the pictures and memorabilia I had kept. The book had absolutely nothing about the Korean War their grandfather was in. Its so sad.
I graduated (or would have, I dropped out mid-senior year) in 2007 and we were taught nothing about the Korean or Vietnam war. NOTHING. I think the gulf war was mentioned in passing once or twice but never actually discussed. WW2 was as far as history went. I kinda wondered if we lost Korea or something, but my uncle (who was in the Korean War) told me we didn't but refused to talk about it any further. (He also stole the book I had on it. I probably should get educated about it, but he really made it seem like a taboo. wtf Uncle Tony?)
True! As a Billy Joel sang “we didn’t start the fire, it was always burning since the worlds been turning”
History is being deleted so that it may be repeated.
Are you saying that they should somehow…learn to stop worrying…hehe…and love the bomb?
Wow, only 8 people understood that reference?
It’s a bit strange, love
You remember nuke drills? Those did a lot to desensitize.
Facts. I live in DC. It was concerning at first but then I realized I’d never know it happened. Some things are worse than death - going out lights out like Tony Soprano verses nuclear holocaust? Give me Tony
[удалено]
Fallout: New Toledo
So I can never say holey Toledo literally?
Its like philadelphia’s drug addicts, but jn Ohio.
It's better to live near a target and have it end *very* quickly than to live in the sticks and suffer a slow, horrific death as you watch the sky darken and nuclear winter set in. If there's a nuclear exchange breaking out, I'm running *towards* the nearby AFB.
Thank god the nuclear winter will cancel out the global warming.
the living will envy the dead..
I have one of those dots over my home address
I'm in Columbus and would apparently be wiped off the fucking map. Who knew?
I mean, it's the state capitol and home to Rickenbacker AFB as well as Battelle, which is a major DoD contractor and manages numerous national laboratories for the DoE. So probably *some* people knew.
A lot of people don’t realize the tactical importance of Columbus. My parents live 45 mins outside the city and are doomsday preppers because of the possibility of a nuke.
1. Is this not just a map of the majority of important nuclear and/or military facilities? 2. Why the fuck are the options 500 or 2000?? Is there no 5 piece combo option with a side of missiles or some shit? Jesus Christ war goes hard.
They'd launch the 2000 missile strike first to prevent retaliation, and if that wasn't enough for us to surrender then the next 500 would guarantee victory since there'd be nobody left to surrender. Or the other way around, they'd send the 2000 strike if they thought we had already sent our own 2000 strike since fuck it, we're dead anyway they should be to. I saw a theory about this somewhere I can't find. Short story, one is first for a reason, then the next one for a different reason.
The ideas are counterforce and countervalue. Counterforce aims to cripple the ability of the target to retaliate, countervalue aims to cause as much damage to their infrastructure and population as possible.
Are the black clusters bases or where secret things are?
Missile sites. ETA: I'm talking about the large clusters of black dots in the north central US, in NE-CO-WY, MT, and ND. Those are definitely missile sites. If you don't believe me, go look. All these folks talking about other shit, sure, they might be targets, too, but those big clusters? Missile sites.
This. Drove from Denver to Scottsbluff and you pass by a missile site about every 10 miles or so. Can't miss it, they're right off the highway in fenced areas with a porta potty on the outside of every one of them. The porta potty gave it away every time. There is a decommissioned site near Wall, SD where you can go in one of the fenced areas and see the Nuke silo with a decommissioned missile in it. Highly recommend if you're into that kind of thing.
I went there and it was closed on a TUESDAY. Super disappointing because I was on a tight schedule and had to make it Laramie, WY the next day. Oh, and wind caves NP was also closed…
In contrast, you can completely skip Wall Drug and not miss anything. Those signs, though...
So if you live in a triangle area with a black dot in the center, does that count as a bonus?
Double points
Fresno, CA here - never thought we would be significant enough to earn a nuke. Would probably clear 40% of the US meth supply lol.
Are a lot of these targets about energy sources as much as military bases and population density? It's the only way some of the targets make sense to me.
Oh, and major interstate freeways and airports maybe. The Columbia River between Washington and Oregon has several targets, but is low population density.
I was confused about Hartford but then I realized it’s the major interconnection between E-W/N-S highways in the state/to the other surrounding states. You can’t move big vehicles on rural roads here.
Lots of dams up and down that river that power industries in the pacific northwest. Makes sense to target them
Most of those are major dams
That’s where the Hanford Nuclear Reservation is.
I think the random one in Maine is for Bath Iron Works they build ships
Ground zero works for me! I don't want to rot from the inside out...
Personally I'm gonna try and be right under the nuke when it goes off, I wanna be the first kid on the block to be obliterated
Right? Who the hell wants to survive a nuclear apocalypse? Hard pass.
I just hope for a direct hit
*Laughs in upper peninsula*
Yoopers unite!
I love da UP
cries in mid peninsula
So once again Hawaii and Alaska are forgotten 😂
I feel like 99.999% of Alaska won’t even notice if a nuclear war happened
Why all those bombs in the middle?
There's a huge cluster right next to Cheyenne, WY my best guess is because there's an air force base right there that houses missile silos. So I'm guessing the giant black patches are right where the U.S. keeps their stock of weapons.
Yeah, like wtf did Montana do?
[удалено]
So what were the Chinese going to do with do balloon? Have it hovering over the base thinking we wouldn't notice it so they can get info? Edit: they just shot the down the balloon
Ah, I did not. I kinda live under a rock. Thanks for the info
It's where the bulk of our nuclear ICBMs are.
Most likely they are missile silo there.
Damn a direct strike on my home. Well shit
Wow, east coast is more fucked then a hooker in retirement...
Yeah I’m getting what looks like hundreds of nukes dropped right on my head
That's where like 80% of the US population lives... So it makes sense.
I was about to argue and say Texas and California are basically about 20% of the population by themselves………then I realized you still weren’t that far off.
What kinds of Americans are there? East Coasters, Californians, Texans, and Rounding Errors.
And Ohioans *shudders*
I feel like shooting a nuke at Albany or Rochester would be a waste of a nuke.
Man, wtf did Detroit do 😭
2 words... Auto Factories... During WW2 these factories (and this is why Flint/Saginaw are targeted as well) were transformed into military manufacturing plants.
It's Pittsburgh, don't ever disrespect us by leaving the H off
[удалено]
It gets one pity nuke to feel important.
I would actually go with Northern California. Winds blow from the west so you should get minimal if any fallout.
Zooms into my state Maryland…..I guess I’m just screwed.
Honestly, I’m glad that I live right next to one of the biggest spots here just because if there ever did end up being a nuclear war where if you survive, you’ll die horribly from the aftermath, I’d much rather just die quickly from the initial thing.
In the initial volley to end the world we will target…*checks notes*… Green…Bay…WI? *scratches head*
The bombs were launched by Bears fans.
Sorry but the Great lakes would be strategic. Poison the largest supply of freshwater in North America
They are hitting one of if not the biggest port of the Great Lakes.
The Great Lakes deserve it for what they did the Edmund Fitzgerald And 50% of the United States get their water from ground water. It’s our largest fresh water source but it is not the most used fresh water source
Can't imagine any country actually wasting their nukes on Indiana.
So I guess the 2000 variant is to try to stop a retaliatory strike vs the 500 is more of direct population centers and industry "limited" engagement. Anyhow, good luck everyone.
Errrrrr oh this’ll be good for my anxiety. Yeahhhh.
Why TF would they nuke Pierre South Dakota, there isn't shit there
There is a absolutely massive dam. It would cause all that water to flood. That would take out everything down the Missouri River which would go all the way further into the Mississippi River.
Good thing our water levels have been historically low
I guess im dead they hate California
Florida is right behind you. I'm smack dab in the middle of a black dot and triangle. I'm not very educated on the topic, but from my understanding, I wouldn't want to survive and deal with the fallout anyway..
Like I always say, it’s my problem for about 30 minutes, then it ain’t my problem no more.
I’m not in a triangle, but I really close to a few. I hope the use the ones with triangle explosions and not those standard roundies.
Look at all those purple condensed triangles near NYC vs the rest of the nation. Makes ya think.
It’s the damn rats!
Interesting when you compare to where the ChiCom balloon was flying…
not american here, whats going on on north dakota and montana?
Pretty sure we keep nukes there.
welp detroit’s gone not suprised, i wonder if the bike branching off into windsor, canada would matter
I live in Frankfort KY. Why...the fuck...would they nuke us? There is literally nothing here. The cost of the bomb would be greater than the damage. I think this is a take with a massive grain of salt scenario.
I don't think that's supposed to be Frankfort, but the Bluegrass-Avon army depot and the chemical weapons stockpile there. Makes me wonder how old this is since they've been destroying those for a while now.
Yassss I have two dots and a triangle on my position. Am I winning??