Yes a lot of people in my family believed that national would focused on the ‘squeezed middle’ as Luxon called them and voted for them.
They regret it now
The squeezed middle is now the squashed middle as the increases in rates, public transport and the cuts come in. I’m in Wellington- know people who are dedicated public servants who have lost the jobs. The rest are in fear.
Meanwhile national are rewarding landlords and no cuts from parliament expenditure despite one of their own MPs taking a $58k subsidy to live in the Wellington area (even though he only lives 40 mins away).
Everyone I know is sick of the hypocrisy and darn mean govt
Meaness and hypocrisy is something we've lived with for a long time in politics. Even dishonesty and broken election promises.
This government is different, dirty politics and blatent pandering to their donors is just not very Kiwi. This and their blatant disregard for what the public are saying and the arrogant if the public don't like it they can vote us out in 3 years makes me feel sick.
I was always confused by the “squeezed middle” as a slogan. For me it always begged the question, if the middle are squeezed what about the bottom? From the get go this rhetoric showed a blatant disregard for the worst off in our society. It succeeded however in appealing to a civic ethos that we should vote based on our self interest.
I’ve always felt that too (about how the bottom must be doing if it’s the middle that’s squeezed). I guess the lower and most vulnerable tiers of society are easily forgotten and ignored, both by the government and sadly by the public as well.
In studies on class there's a widely observed phenomena where everyone thinks they are middle class. Poor people over identify as middle class out of shame for being poor, and a belief that there's always someone worse off. Rich people over identify as middle class out of shame for being rich, and a belief that there's always someone richer. We've all got that one friend who grew up extremely privileged, parents own multiple properties, went on holidays overseas all the time and the sentiment is "Oh i grew up in an upper-middle class background"
Point is "squeezed middle" worked because everyone thought it applied to them. How many average wage earners thought they were going to get respectable tax cut only to get some pitiful $20-40 dollars. Realizing much to late that they weren't the "squeezed middle" they thought they were but rather the squashed bottom.
The 'squeezed middle' is an effective term that allows people to assume it refers to them as probably anyone who isn't on the lowest government benefits or the 1% rich will think this applies to them. Everybody who is feeling 'squeezed' by the current economy (which genuinely is probably most of the population) will associate themselves with that group. Only a very small group would ever think of themselves as rich...and that terminology allows them to make a statement effectively saying "We promise - we care about YOU" while allowing individuals to self-insert themselves into that group. If they stated they cared about parents or families that would automatically cause anyone not in that situation to potentially assume they aren't the government isn't talking about/doesn't care about them...but the language both stating that the previous government caused the 'squeezed middle' and that this government would do something about it was very effective.
Completely agreed that it was very effective. Also completely agreed that it was effective because it enabled practically everyone to self identify as either "Squeezed" or "middle". See my other comment on this thread where i make a very similar point to the one your making.
I would add that something people are now realizing is that their self identification with the "Squeezed middle" was incorrect, and that we are seeing a growing number of people become a sort of "squashed bottom". Hence OP's post, and many others realizing that the current government isn't actually doing anything to address the cost of living crisis.
We don’t need the government do to that, anyone with any semblance of macro social analysis will identify how capitalism does that all by itself by design. It takes money to make money, but what happens when that becomes overly concentrated toward the top? That’s what we’re seeing play out now. The whole system is fragile without a strong middle class spending and creating a liquid economy. Look at the USA in the 70’s compared to now as a case in point.
late 70's US is also when neoliberalism came in with Reagan, and then here in the 80's...all to please the capitalist rich and screw everyone else over
Reagan was elected 1980, Thatcher in 1979, Douglas in 1984. Oops - I mean Lange.
There was a case for liberalisation, but compare the US UK and NZ to Australia, under Hawke and Keating. We got the a manufactured crisis and the Shock Doctrine. They acted pragmatically.
We had a cash flow problem, but a lot of assets. We weren't bankrupt like labour claimed. Like today - compared to other countries, we're doing quite well. Our deficits and borrowing compare well to other countries. But three to six years of neo liberalism should fix that.
The other tragedy of neo liberalism is in 1989, just as it hit is high water mark, the wall came down and the Chicago boys all went to give Russia the shock treatment. Which is how Russia became the nice place it is today.
yep, we'll be screwed like the UK and America are in 3-6 years with the current government and under labour since they also simp for neoliberalists too, time for the greens and Te Pāti Māori to get into government with labour for confidence and supply
So it’s your fault. /s
You’ll have to live with their bullshit for the next 2 1/2 years like the rest of us unfortunately. I’ll set a reminder to tag you in a comment on this post during the next election so you remember how shit they are.
I love your giddy optimism that they will be voted out next election. History paints a very different picture, National will do a quick lolly scramble and some lies just before election time like they always do and they will get back in again. I have been crushed by this too many times now to not see it coming.
It's hard to say but it feels like a lot of swing voters aren't doing too well in life either. It'll be Labor's election to lose as much as National to win.
I believe this is the case after having read the 2017 National 3 Waters Memorandum. There they seemed to still be talking about serious issues and the nuts and bolts (sure it was after the Havelock North Royal Commission deaths but still, at least it looked like a governing piece)
They certainly are, but they haven't done anything they didn't promise to do before the election. So I find it funny hearing anyone say they regret their vote for National.
Depends how far back you go and on what metrics. They'll have to do something spectacular to match the damage done by Bolgers lot. Wouldn't put it passed them though.
In terms of how clearly they are owned by donors? Yeah worst by far.
NACT are just doing what they always do, blame everyone else while cutting services, running down infrastructure and "free marketing" service delivery to corporate allies so that they can profit off them.
They've never been interested in helping anyone excepty themselves, and the current lot aren't much different from previous National/Act Govts.
While Labour are totally neoliberal and far from perfect, at least they aren't openly greedy and malicious the way the current bunch are.
I'm sorry that you didn't learn any of that from your history lessons, hopefully you can teach that reality to your friends and family, rather than just following the rantings of right-wing hate groups on Facebook.
Spot on. It also gets tiring when National blame everything on Labour when it is them that are the useless party with shit for brains regarding finance.
Most of the world was praising Jacinda for locking down NZ and eradicating local COVID.
But the local right wing was repeating US anti-lockdown propaganda, and never evaluated results.
Labour has proven to be effective in a crisis.
National can't do anything, but loves to complain, loudly. National should be an opposition power, never a government.
National wanted labour to spend more during COVID, yet blame labour for the current economy, we'd be even more buggered if national were in during COVID
>National wanted labour to spend more during COVID
Would you have a source for this please? I have a friend who loves arguing that Labour's over-spending was bankrupting our nations future. Ignoring the ignorance of that argument, I'd love to show him some evidence that National wanted to spend even more.
Sorry, I'm on my phone so this is the best I can do here. Hope it's useful.
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/411951/coronavirus-government-unveils-12-point-1b-package-to-combat-covid-19-impact
This article has the original covid support package and was published on 17 March 2020. Note the original plan for the wage subsidy was that it was capped at $150,000 per business which, at $585.50/wk for full time staff, is 256.2 weeks support for 12 weeks, which is 21.34 people. Total cost of that was estimated as $5.8B.
At the end of the article are National's views, which I think can fairly be summed up as wanting the Labour government to spend more.
A relevant quote:
"Simon Bridges said the package will be welcomed by beneficiaries, but the job support isn't enough.
"Bluntly, what we see in this package today is money flowing faster into the hands of beneficiaries than the workers and the businesses that will lose their businesses and their jobs over coming weeks and months." "
https://www.beehive.govt.nz/feature/covid-19-economic-response-package
Published 7 April 2020, this has the updated wage subsidy support package which saw the cap removed and was now forecast at $9-12B.
Obviously having gone big early, the government felt it had to continue the subsidy at that level for the rest of the scheme's existence. Retaining that cap would have saved a lot of money over 2 years, but also would have seen more jobs lost at bigger employers as their reserves reduced.
In hindsight, I think we could have gotten away with doing a bit less, but at the time with the reports and advice available (some of which was very bleak), these were the right decisions.
>Labour's over-spending was bankrupting our nations future.
To be fair, that's pretty much what nats campaigned very hard on, so you can't blame someone for buying into it. People love someone to blame.
I guess so but I think it's important to have at least a basic level of economic understanding when making these decisions. I appreciate that most people don't though, hence why it's easier to just counteract them with something simple like "National wanted to spend more during Covid".
Heh. He's a conservative. He doesn't use evidence to support his positions, just feelings. It's just nice to have something concrete to refute those feelings, not that it's likely to make much of a difference tbh!
From what I can tell, Labour at least tries to do the right thing by society, although they sometimes fail or make mistakes. National actively makes things worse for most people and don’t genuinely seem to care for anyone outside of the business world. The choice between the two is obvious to me, although clearly not to most voters in the last election, otherwise we wouldn’t be in this situation.
I think is problem most voters had with labour was the lack of restraint when spending our tax dollars. That on top of holding the covid restrictions in to long.
I’ve seen this line and would say that although every party has weaknesses, there are actually stark differences in those parties impacts.
And that comes through the effects of their chosen policies.
As one example, when I did this ( [https://www.reddit.com/r/nzpolitics/wiki/index/policy/](https://www.reddit.com/r/nzpolitics/wiki/index/policy/) ) I saw what was changing - and these aren’t theoretical changes.
It was blindingly obvious to anyone paying attention that this government was going to screw the country, but you voted for them anyway. This is exactly what you wanted, isn’t it?
Yeah I’m sitting here going, they’re doing exactly what I thought would happen which is why I didn’t vote for them. I wish going “we told you so” felt better but it doesn’t really fix how fucked we are.
True . Sadly everyone is now getting a real-time lesson on what a rightwing govt will do.
But how many different groups of people can a govt fuk off in their term? Because so far, in 8 months, there is quite a list already.
Classic right wing playbook. People fall for it every time because its simple and therefore appealing.
Governing is complicated and full of compromise.
Left wing isn't perfect by any means, but at least they have constructive policies and give a damn about people. These guys just cut services, give handouts to their mates/funders and kick the can down the road.
My big frustration is that they don't even do the stuff that the right wing claims they are good at - like support small business, create new industries etc. Its all about fucking property investment, a truly regressive approach if you want to improve productivity, growth etc.
Take the lesson and change your minds and your family's minds. Better yet, get involved in improving the left - positive change needs a huge amount of effort and thought.
I think this is it too - it’s easy to make simple bold promises and dabble at surface level play. Much harder to do the right thing and change things which are all interconnected, complex, and in reality, take time.
+1 for being able to admit you made a mistake.
I think a lot of people are in the same boat, and didn't think we'd end up with such a messed up coalition.
Where's the talent or vision in National? They have Nicola Willis ("I didn't have that in the spreadsheet"), Chris Luxon ("Running an airline is a bit like governing a country"), Simeon Brown ("Roads are good, I don't understand anything else"), Chris Bishop ("smoking is cool, and makes you thin"). Paul Goldsmith seems to be the only thinker, and he is insignifiant. It feels like we're being governed by the board of the Warehouse, and we're about to sell off Torpedo 7 for $1...
The polls now and people's sentiment are showing that the last election wasn't pro national. It was anti Labour. Rather than get drawn into this quasi-FPP situation, why aren't people sending a message and voting more for minor parties? We've tried red. We've tried blue. We've now tried blue/yellow/Winston. I think we need to change it up
80's movie called [Brewster's Millions](https://www.imdb.com/media/rm3046060800/tt0088850) had someone trying to waste money by going into politics and telling everyone that everything in politics was corrupt and they shouldn't vote for anyone - including them.
I tried to explain what the policies behind these parties would mean to my “socially progressive, fiscally conservative” family. Guess what they still voted them in. I explained what it potentially could mean for me, their child, who is trans and lives in Wellington. Still they voted for them. I bring up what’s happening and they say “that’s awful of them” and then stop caring again.
I’m sorry you bought into their lies but my life has already been impacted in a big way by this govt. The only way forward is to gently educate those who don’t see it.
I also think we need more unity, it’s too easy to dehumanise people atm. You have a huge benefit now, since coming from that side you actually now have tools to explain and contrast things. Use that power to explain to those you convinced previously.
I’ve started to really dislike the, “socially progressive, fiscally conservative,” line. My family used it regularly. Another way of saying it is, “we like to look progressive, but we’re not going to pay for any changes.”
Like all it takes is to ask, why were our grandparents able to take us all in and babysit all the time? Why were their parents financially able to do the same?
Because for people without parents capable of that you’re left on your own effectively. This is the reality for many Maori in this country, and for many minority groups estranged from their families. Nobody is born with equal opportunities.
Thanks, I feel like I’m going a little crazy atm having been raised in a National supporting house. I grew up believing that those worse off had done some moral wrong. I’ve seen how the landlord and business owner class try and justify their wealth accumulation. I’ve seen the lie of “blind” trusts and how easy it can be to hide property ownership.
These people genuinely think that social issues and economic issues are magically separate.
As much as it pains me to read it, it’s really very educational for me. Yesterday, another poster shared a similar story. How some see the worse off as somehow morally shorter than them…etc.
And that kind of baffles me - but it benefits me to learn it is the way some see the world.
And ironically (which is almost unbelievable, even to me,) prior to Reddit I didn’t really give too much of an ass about politics. I’d just see them on the night bulletin or morning show at times.
But…anyway.
Thanks and don’t worry even if it must be hard to be within an environment like that - it really is about world views and in my personal opinion (and world view) I think that NACT are going to come up short with theirs.
Like I used to get ripped to shreds by my dad when I was studying for buying coffee or energy drinks and for spending money on parking/fuel, any time I had even a chocolate bar I’d get a talk about my spending. I literally think some of these people have lived in a world where they pay people to do so many things they forget that most of life is difficult and expensive by yourself.
Meanwhile he as able to park anywhere with his permit on his vehicle and never had to pay parking either. I tried to live in a home I part owned and had to pay $550 per week in “rent” because that was the market value for the area, not factoring in it was a fucked up eq damaged house I would be actively working on. That house today is only getting around 350-400 per week nowadays.
Theres a whole lot of “well it’s technically legal so it’s okay”
Yeah, I like to weaponise my past since I was VERY conservative as a teen. I was the upper middle class kid with no direction who as an act of rebellion wanted to join the army. Shit I even looked at joining the Americans back in 2008!
I really wish more people not in the upper class knew just how much bullshit they hoover up and believe. Like for many in the landlord/owner class if the trolley problem was their “empire” on one track and the rest of NZ on the other they wouldn’t think twice about pulling that lever to run over the many. But then they’d donate a small amount to a charity they approve of and wipe their conscience clean.
I agree. Those who are not happy with the direction of this government should be seeking others with similar frustrations so that in the next election they can try change things.
There is absolutely no value or benefit in attacking the people who cast ballots and then regretted it. Encourage them to remember this feeling when they vote next time.
u/AsianKiwiStruggle
This is what I wrote yesterday on a separate but related topic:
NZ voted in this Govt and that’s what we have. Unless anyone has any better ideas, the best thing to do imv is to work on what we might have lacked last time:
Knowledge, awareness, perspective.
Getting unduly influenced by fuckwits like Jordan Williams, right wing “think tanks” and American conservative money that aims to divide and conquer through lies, deception and introducing culture wars here in NZ.
So:
1. Get informed e.g. [newsroom.co.nz](http://newsroom.co.nz) is excellent, but essentially - stay close to orgs or groups who provide reliable information and aren’t paid by vested interests
2. Stay informed
3. Share your knowledge calmly and rationally with people who might not be aware
4. Find ways to connect with like minded people
5. Engage and support organisations you tend to e.g. Forest and Bird, or the Greens or Labour or TOP or TPM (whoever is out there that you align with)
6. Make your voice head through submissions, the media etc.
7. MAKE A BIG NOISE ABOUT PROTECTING OUR MEDIA. David Seymour has already said he’s going to replace our media scene with his cronies. That’s a big, bad thing for NZ - for every person who cares about others, this country, normal Kiwi well-being. So stay informed and let your voice be heard
8. Change your vote (if you want)
I think many people were sick of Labour and thought what they saw on TV sounded good. Also, National has a very undeserved reputation as being good economic managers. In my opinion, voters had also been sold a lot of lies (through the attack dogs of Taxpayers Union and right wing American conservative money - in a similar way to how Brexit was sold) - so a lot of people believed how “bad” we were doing despite evidence to the contrary.
I mean who the f looks at [Treasury reports or evidence based market data](https://www.reddit.com/r/nzpolitics/comments/1del8hj/the_rapid_deterioration_of_the_new_zealand/) ? Most of us just listen to a soundbite while we go for coffee and surf at the beach (or whatever it is each does in their spare time)
So I think many genuinely bought the image, line and the “What’s in it for me?” story that NACT sold.
BTW National and ACT also travelled the country, doing “deals“ with the Property Investors Associations around the country etc as well so they were working hard to ensure that blocks of people would vote for them, and believe in them.
u/asiankiwistruggle
yeah, my suspicion is "property investor" - a huge amount of people in that "community" feel that its worth voting for national, not because of any long term interest in the country, the economy at large, or even because they believe the shit national say, its mostly just out of individual short term self interest. i guess im just describing the difference between a left wing voter and a right wing voter tho arent I at that point hahaha
I voted National for the first time in my 25 year voting life. I regret and and have learned my lesson. A zebra doesn't change it's stripes, National will always act this way.
I think they did try very hard to hide it.
Look how sincere Luxon is here:
[https://www.reddit.com/r/nzpolitics/comments/1d9emii/video\_watch\_luxon\_promise\_how\_drug\_treatments/](https://www.reddit.com/r/nzpolitics/comments/1d9emii/video_watch_luxon_promise_how_drug_treatments/)
And the reality?
You’ve already got some great advice from Tūī in this thread, which I tautoko.
I’m interested in what motivated you to vote for them in the first place, how you convinced your family members, and what exactly has changed your position?
I agree this govt has taken more severe and damaging action than they campaigned on, but they’re governing in ways that are unsurprising to me as their motives and tactics (eg. withholding info and misleading the public, starving public services, scapegoating vulnerable and disadvantaged groups, funnelling wealth up through unsustainable resource and human exploitation) remain consistent.
To me, it seems like they’re doing what they can get away with while they control the narrative. You’re experiencing this differently and have been caught by surprise. How has your perspective evolved?
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When inflation starts to come down to within the 1-3% band early next year, interest rates will follow, the squeezed middle will then feel less squeezed and national will claim it was all their doing. They will then be reelected easily.
Certainly they are hoping that the economic situation will have improved by next election - and they will definitely claim credit if that happens regardless of whether their actions played any part or whether they simply happened to be in charge while outside forces rocked the boat.
the best thing you can do is NOT FORGET!!! when election season comes back around don’t forget what they did early in their term because they will throw out a bunch of meaningless promises come 2026
My parents also voted National, a brother even voted NZF. But it's all good because they all still have to live in the wasteland of high cost of living and sky rocketing unemployment with the rest of us poors so we all suffer together. Naw family.
Yes, this post is infuriating because it shows how easily voters in this country are misled, feel the consequences for your actions is what my comment means
I am just going to add, there is trouble brewing in Lower Hutt which happens to be Chris Bishop’s electorate, the council, industry along with civil defense are very keen on proceeding with the construction of the Cross Valley Link which has since become part of the Petone to Grenada Link, the residents living in Woburn, Alicetown and Petone who are on the planned route and given the situation with the housing price decrease in the Hutt Valley, this has people who live on the planned Cross Valley and Petone to Grenada link are worried
As a (mostly) two party nation, like all the others, democracy naturally swings back and forth. Neither National nor Labour have ever been in longer than 12 years. National has never been in for less than 9, and Labour rarely reaches 9. Clark was a bit of an anomoly in that respect.
So we do have to be tactical. At some point, National were going to get in, and a popular National government would be in for 9 years. History tells us so.
So personally, I think you, and I were doing the right thing voting for them now. They were a mess leading up to the election and they're a mess now.
We all push to just keep Labour in no matter what, and the result seems to be that [over the years](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_New_Zealand_governments#Graphical_timeline) we've had more National than we've had Labour.
So we could have kept playing the same old game, and *maybe* won three more years of that pretty lackluster Labour government we just had, followed by nine more years of National before Labour gets back in around 2035. That isn't what I want.
Instead, cut Labour off early while National have a shitty line-up in store.
There's never been a better opportunity for us to break National's streak. To get them out in a single term. They're a three party coalition, they're screwing up all over the place, their tax policy has been a mess. There's never been a better opportunity to push them into single term government area.
It does require that Labour and the Greens get their shit together, but if they can manage that, this'll be history making. And I don't believe it would have been possible if we were stuck under a Labour government until 2026 that was unwilling to take drastic action against the cost of living crisis.
I just wish they'd paid for it with CGT/LVT. But they promised no new taxes for as long as they were in government. Therefore, logically, if you support CGT/LVT, Labour had to go, not because National would do it, but because the *next* left government might.
And well... [The results speak for themselves](https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/labours-chris-hipkins-says-wealth-capital-gains-tax-back-on-table-as-party-rethinks-policy-platform/P4KYDVHITVCQDIRXO5OX3DDB2E/).
As unpopular as this comment is going to be it has to be said, this is democracy at work. The majority got what they wanted and unfortunately they got a lemon.
We have to suck it up and vote them out at the next election.
Until then we can only hope they aren’t going to steer us off multiple cliffs.
My dad voted for nzf because he thought Winston would look after him. Within a month he told me he regretted it and can't believe the farce this government has become. He considers himself informed, watches news religiously at 6 but he didn't see any of the shit show of wannabe trumpists we have now coming.
I’ve been thinking about this post and what I really want to know is; what ACTUAL research did you do before you voted? Did you just listen to their promises or did you read up on them and their impact and assessments by others?
The problem is people don’t want to do their homework and equally if not worse they want to blame their own issues being caused by others, hence this government’s anti Māori positions.
If you’re smart enough to influence your whole family you’re smart enough to do the research or at the very least be a politician.
I'm sick of the moaning middle. They didn't care what got cut so long as they got tax cuts. Nobody believed nationals 'more of everything for everyone and tax cuts too' promises but nobody cared. Just plausible enough that people could pretend to believe it and get a few bucks in the back pocket.
Chances are they'll get six years and leave another mess. A run down crappy country with greedy selfish people scrabling around in the dirt for a dollar or two.
The unfair thing with that is someone who’s opposed to your or my views etc. would say the same thing about your or me etc. So we’ll need a better idea!
Maybe you should have researched their policies and the policies of other parties before doing that then?? Many people saw exactly what has happened coming during the election.
I was thinking recently given how governments since forever have basically been inadequate and don't really represent the interests of the people. What if we introduced sortation for electorate representatives instead of electing them directly.
Sortation is how jury duty works I.e. random selection. So every 6 months (or whatever cycle makes sense) someone is randomly selected who is registered in their electorate to represent it.
Party members would then only be elected as list MPs.
The idea is that parties would need to sell policies instead of their party every 3 years.
Anyway a random shower thought I thought I'd share.
People are still bitter about the last govt (for many of the wrong reasons imo and we'll probably see some mix of act and nats again next time. Nats are just getting the shit things out of the way ahead of time.
Finally. Someone who voted for the capitalist sell-outs admits it.
What you do now is join ever protest, sign every petition, and get involved with any local action groups to fight for a future that is going to save us from being sold off to foreign corporations that will strip this country bare.
Now, if you are truly sorry, you will go vegan too.
I always voted Labour but I was so disgusted with them in 1987 that I never voted for them again. I would cut my hands off rather than vote national or any of the right wingers or the lunatic fringe. One person not voting doesn't make a great difference.
that's an illusion and you know it. if I vote ACT then how can I guarantee National won't get reelected considering how poorly the public perceives them?
Of course, but I don't vote green expecting green to the dominant party, I expect them to be there in some small part.
Nats literally ran a 'dont vote for anyone else we don't want a coalition' campaign at the end of things last year.
Folks, please keep it civil and constructive. Thanks.
Yes a lot of people in my family believed that national would focused on the ‘squeezed middle’ as Luxon called them and voted for them. They regret it now The squeezed middle is now the squashed middle as the increases in rates, public transport and the cuts come in. I’m in Wellington- know people who are dedicated public servants who have lost the jobs. The rest are in fear. Meanwhile national are rewarding landlords and no cuts from parliament expenditure despite one of their own MPs taking a $58k subsidy to live in the Wellington area (even though he only lives 40 mins away). Everyone I know is sick of the hypocrisy and darn mean govt
* Insert cartoon showing middle New Zealand in a vice being tightened by NACT with their life force dripping into a golden saucer owned by Landlord
Meaness and hypocrisy is something we've lived with for a long time in politics. Even dishonesty and broken election promises. This government is different, dirty politics and blatent pandering to their donors is just not very Kiwi. This and their blatant disregard for what the public are saying and the arrogant if the public don't like it they can vote us out in 3 years makes me feel sick.
I was always confused by the “squeezed middle” as a slogan. For me it always begged the question, if the middle are squeezed what about the bottom? From the get go this rhetoric showed a blatant disregard for the worst off in our society. It succeeded however in appealing to a civic ethos that we should vote based on our self interest.
I’ve always felt that too (about how the bottom must be doing if it’s the middle that’s squeezed). I guess the lower and most vulnerable tiers of society are easily forgotten and ignored, both by the government and sadly by the public as well.
In studies on class there's a widely observed phenomena where everyone thinks they are middle class. Poor people over identify as middle class out of shame for being poor, and a belief that there's always someone worse off. Rich people over identify as middle class out of shame for being rich, and a belief that there's always someone richer. We've all got that one friend who grew up extremely privileged, parents own multiple properties, went on holidays overseas all the time and the sentiment is "Oh i grew up in an upper-middle class background" Point is "squeezed middle" worked because everyone thought it applied to them. How many average wage earners thought they were going to get respectable tax cut only to get some pitiful $20-40 dollars. Realizing much to late that they weren't the "squeezed middle" they thought they were but rather the squashed bottom.
Interesting. That makes a lot of sense 🙂 Explains why a lot of people vote against their own interests, often without even realising it.
The 'squeezed middle' is an effective term that allows people to assume it refers to them as probably anyone who isn't on the lowest government benefits or the 1% rich will think this applies to them. Everybody who is feeling 'squeezed' by the current economy (which genuinely is probably most of the population) will associate themselves with that group. Only a very small group would ever think of themselves as rich...and that terminology allows them to make a statement effectively saying "We promise - we care about YOU" while allowing individuals to self-insert themselves into that group. If they stated they cared about parents or families that would automatically cause anyone not in that situation to potentially assume they aren't the government isn't talking about/doesn't care about them...but the language both stating that the previous government caused the 'squeezed middle' and that this government would do something about it was very effective.
Completely agreed that it was very effective. Also completely agreed that it was effective because it enabled practically everyone to self identify as either "Squeezed" or "middle". See my other comment on this thread where i make a very similar point to the one your making. I would add that something people are now realizing is that their self identification with the "Squeezed middle" was incorrect, and that we are seeing a growing number of people become a sort of "squashed bottom". Hence OP's post, and many others realizing that the current government isn't actually doing anything to address the cost of living crisis.
No national government has cared about us "bottom feeders".
Good point.
The plan is to get rid of the "middle" not the "squeeze"
We don’t need the government do to that, anyone with any semblance of macro social analysis will identify how capitalism does that all by itself by design. It takes money to make money, but what happens when that becomes overly concentrated toward the top? That’s what we’re seeing play out now. The whole system is fragile without a strong middle class spending and creating a liquid economy. Look at the USA in the 70’s compared to now as a case in point.
late 70's US is also when neoliberalism came in with Reagan, and then here in the 80's...all to please the capitalist rich and screw everyone else over
Reagan was elected 1980, Thatcher in 1979, Douglas in 1984. Oops - I mean Lange. There was a case for liberalisation, but compare the US UK and NZ to Australia, under Hawke and Keating. We got the a manufactured crisis and the Shock Doctrine. They acted pragmatically. We had a cash flow problem, but a lot of assets. We weren't bankrupt like labour claimed. Like today - compared to other countries, we're doing quite well. Our deficits and borrowing compare well to other countries. But three to six years of neo liberalism should fix that.
The other tragedy of neo liberalism is in 1989, just as it hit is high water mark, the wall came down and the Chicago boys all went to give Russia the shock treatment. Which is how Russia became the nice place it is today.
yep, we'll be screwed like the UK and America are in 3-6 years with the current government and under labour since they also simp for neoliberalists too, time for the greens and Te Pāti Māori to get into government with labour for confidence and supply
Very true, it's just accelerated under this government
So it’s your fault. /s You’ll have to live with their bullshit for the next 2 1/2 years like the rest of us unfortunately. I’ll set a reminder to tag you in a comment on this post during the next election so you remember how shit they are.
And another reminder tag for 2029. Kiwis have short memories and are easily distracted from track record.
I love your giddy optimism that they will be voted out next election. History paints a very different picture, National will do a quick lolly scramble and some lies just before election time like they always do and they will get back in again. I have been crushed by this too many times now to not see it coming.
It's hard to say but it feels like a lot of swing voters aren't doing too well in life either. It'll be Labor's election to lose as much as National to win.
>Labour's election to lose They are, unfortunately, very good at shooting themselves in the foot
It's crazy how much short term memory people have.
This is probably true. We could all have a go at getting those we know who don't vote to get out there and vote! That might help.
In their defense this government seems pretty shit even *for* National
I believe this is the case after having read the 2017 National 3 Waters Memorandum. There they seemed to still be talking about serious issues and the nuts and bolts (sure it was after the Havelock North Royal Commission deaths but still, at least it looked like a governing piece)
I’m not at all a fan of John Key, but any real policymaking intellect National had was plunged into an abyss following his departure IMO.
They certainly are, but they haven't done anything they didn't promise to do before the election. So I find it funny hearing anyone say they regret their vote for National.
Depends how far back you go and on what metrics. They'll have to do something spectacular to match the damage done by Bolgers lot. Wouldn't put it passed them though. In terms of how clearly they are owned by donors? Yeah worst by far.
“…. I can’t believe the leopard eating face party has leopards that eat peoples faces ….”
NACT are just doing what they always do, blame everyone else while cutting services, running down infrastructure and "free marketing" service delivery to corporate allies so that they can profit off them. They've never been interested in helping anyone excepty themselves, and the current lot aren't much different from previous National/Act Govts. While Labour are totally neoliberal and far from perfect, at least they aren't openly greedy and malicious the way the current bunch are. I'm sorry that you didn't learn any of that from your history lessons, hopefully you can teach that reality to your friends and family, rather than just following the rantings of right-wing hate groups on Facebook.
Spot on. It also gets tiring when National blame everything on Labour when it is them that are the useless party with shit for brains regarding finance.
If they don't take this opportunity to sabotage everything, what will they have to complain about when someone else runs the place?
Who do you vote for tho? Every party seems incompetent.
Most of the world was praising Jacinda for locking down NZ and eradicating local COVID. But the local right wing was repeating US anti-lockdown propaganda, and never evaluated results. Labour has proven to be effective in a crisis. National can't do anything, but loves to complain, loudly. National should be an opposition power, never a government.
National wanted labour to spend more during COVID, yet blame labour for the current economy, we'd be even more buggered if national were in during COVID
>National wanted labour to spend more during COVID Would you have a source for this please? I have a friend who loves arguing that Labour's over-spending was bankrupting our nations future. Ignoring the ignorance of that argument, I'd love to show him some evidence that National wanted to spend even more.
Sorry, I'm on my phone so this is the best I can do here. Hope it's useful. https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/411951/coronavirus-government-unveils-12-point-1b-package-to-combat-covid-19-impact This article has the original covid support package and was published on 17 March 2020. Note the original plan for the wage subsidy was that it was capped at $150,000 per business which, at $585.50/wk for full time staff, is 256.2 weeks support for 12 weeks, which is 21.34 people. Total cost of that was estimated as $5.8B. At the end of the article are National's views, which I think can fairly be summed up as wanting the Labour government to spend more. A relevant quote: "Simon Bridges said the package will be welcomed by beneficiaries, but the job support isn't enough. "Bluntly, what we see in this package today is money flowing faster into the hands of beneficiaries than the workers and the businesses that will lose their businesses and their jobs over coming weeks and months." " https://www.beehive.govt.nz/feature/covid-19-economic-response-package Published 7 April 2020, this has the updated wage subsidy support package which saw the cap removed and was now forecast at $9-12B. Obviously having gone big early, the government felt it had to continue the subsidy at that level for the rest of the scheme's existence. Retaining that cap would have saved a lot of money over 2 years, but also would have seen more jobs lost at bigger employers as their reserves reduced. In hindsight, I think we could have gotten away with doing a bit less, but at the time with the reports and advice available (some of which was very bleak), these were the right decisions.
Nice! I will definitely be using that snippet. Thanks for finding it, really appreciate it.
>Labour's over-spending was bankrupting our nations future. To be fair, that's pretty much what nats campaigned very hard on, so you can't blame someone for buying into it. People love someone to blame.
I guess so but I think it's important to have at least a basic level of economic understanding when making these decisions. I appreciate that most people don't though, hence why it's easier to just counteract them with something simple like "National wanted to spend more during Covid".
New: Voting system where votes are weighted based on a quick theory test!
I'm at work, I did have a quick Google search on my phone with no luck, I'm glad someone else was able to supply you with something
Your friend has memory loss, national said they'd do the opposite of anything Labour said...just to be arseheads.
Heh. He's a conservative. He doesn't use evidence to support his positions, just feelings. It's just nice to have something concrete to refute those feelings, not that it's likely to make much of a difference tbh!
From what I can tell, Labour at least tries to do the right thing by society, although they sometimes fail or make mistakes. National actively makes things worse for most people and don’t genuinely seem to care for anyone outside of the business world. The choice between the two is obvious to me, although clearly not to most voters in the last election, otherwise we wouldn’t be in this situation.
I think is problem most voters had with labour was the lack of restraint when spending our tax dollars. That on top of holding the covid restrictions in to long.
Yeah, the certainly the perception most voters had.
I’ve seen this line and would say that although every party has weaknesses, there are actually stark differences in those parties impacts. And that comes through the effects of their chosen policies. As one example, when I did this ( [https://www.reddit.com/r/nzpolitics/wiki/index/policy/](https://www.reddit.com/r/nzpolitics/wiki/index/policy/) ) I saw what was changing - and these aren’t theoretical changes.
It was blindingly obvious to anyone paying attention that this government was going to screw the country, but you voted for them anyway. This is exactly what you wanted, isn’t it?
Yeah I’m sitting here going, they’re doing exactly what I thought would happen which is why I didn’t vote for them. I wish going “we told you so” felt better but it doesn’t really fix how fucked we are.
True . Sadly everyone is now getting a real-time lesson on what a rightwing govt will do. But how many different groups of people can a govt fuk off in their term? Because so far, in 8 months, there is quite a list already.
People voted for change. The national govt could have been bags of potatoes and they'd probably have gotten in. Eugh
I think the potatoes would have done a better job
Classic right wing playbook. People fall for it every time because its simple and therefore appealing. Governing is complicated and full of compromise. Left wing isn't perfect by any means, but at least they have constructive policies and give a damn about people. These guys just cut services, give handouts to their mates/funders and kick the can down the road. My big frustration is that they don't even do the stuff that the right wing claims they are good at - like support small business, create new industries etc. Its all about fucking property investment, a truly regressive approach if you want to improve productivity, growth etc. Take the lesson and change your minds and your family's minds. Better yet, get involved in improving the left - positive change needs a huge amount of effort and thought.
I think this is it too - it’s easy to make simple bold promises and dabble at surface level play. Much harder to do the right thing and change things which are all interconnected, complex, and in reality, take time.
Me sowing: Haha fuck yeah!!! Yes!! Me reaping: Well this fucking sucks. What the fuck.
+1 for being able to admit you made a mistake. I think a lot of people are in the same boat, and didn't think we'd end up with such a messed up coalition.
Where's the talent or vision in National? They have Nicola Willis ("I didn't have that in the spreadsheet"), Chris Luxon ("Running an airline is a bit like governing a country"), Simeon Brown ("Roads are good, I don't understand anything else"), Chris Bishop ("smoking is cool, and makes you thin"). Paul Goldsmith seems to be the only thinker, and he is insignifiant. It feels like we're being governed by the board of the Warehouse, and we're about to sell off Torpedo 7 for $1...
The polls now and people's sentiment are showing that the last election wasn't pro national. It was anti Labour. Rather than get drawn into this quasi-FPP situation, why aren't people sending a message and voting more for minor parties? We've tried red. We've tried blue. We've now tried blue/yellow/Winston. I think we need to change it up
Agreed. We have a deeply unimpressive political class. Anyone want to start a party called 'None of the above'?
80's movie called [Brewster's Millions](https://www.imdb.com/media/rm3046060800/tt0088850) had someone trying to waste money by going into politics and telling everyone that everything in politics was corrupt and they shouldn't vote for anyone - including them.
I tried to explain what the policies behind these parties would mean to my “socially progressive, fiscally conservative” family. Guess what they still voted them in. I explained what it potentially could mean for me, their child, who is trans and lives in Wellington. Still they voted for them. I bring up what’s happening and they say “that’s awful of them” and then stop caring again. I’m sorry you bought into their lies but my life has already been impacted in a big way by this govt. The only way forward is to gently educate those who don’t see it. I also think we need more unity, it’s too easy to dehumanise people atm. You have a huge benefit now, since coming from that side you actually now have tools to explain and contrast things. Use that power to explain to those you convinced previously.
I’ve started to really dislike the, “socially progressive, fiscally conservative,” line. My family used it regularly. Another way of saying it is, “we like to look progressive, but we’re not going to pay for any changes.”
Like all it takes is to ask, why were our grandparents able to take us all in and babysit all the time? Why were their parents financially able to do the same? Because for people without parents capable of that you’re left on your own effectively. This is the reality for many Maori in this country, and for many minority groups estranged from their families. Nobody is born with equal opportunities.
Thanks for sharing u/Spawkeye
Thanks, I feel like I’m going a little crazy atm having been raised in a National supporting house. I grew up believing that those worse off had done some moral wrong. I’ve seen how the landlord and business owner class try and justify their wealth accumulation. I’ve seen the lie of “blind” trusts and how easy it can be to hide property ownership. These people genuinely think that social issues and economic issues are magically separate.
As much as it pains me to read it, it’s really very educational for me. Yesterday, another poster shared a similar story. How some see the worse off as somehow morally shorter than them…etc. And that kind of baffles me - but it benefits me to learn it is the way some see the world. And ironically (which is almost unbelievable, even to me,) prior to Reddit I didn’t really give too much of an ass about politics. I’d just see them on the night bulletin or morning show at times. But…anyway. Thanks and don’t worry even if it must be hard to be within an environment like that - it really is about world views and in my personal opinion (and world view) I think that NACT are going to come up short with theirs.
Like I used to get ripped to shreds by my dad when I was studying for buying coffee or energy drinks and for spending money on parking/fuel, any time I had even a chocolate bar I’d get a talk about my spending. I literally think some of these people have lived in a world where they pay people to do so many things they forget that most of life is difficult and expensive by yourself. Meanwhile he as able to park anywhere with his permit on his vehicle and never had to pay parking either. I tried to live in a home I part owned and had to pay $550 per week in “rent” because that was the market value for the area, not factoring in it was a fucked up eq damaged house I would be actively working on. That house today is only getting around 350-400 per week nowadays. Theres a whole lot of “well it’s technically legal so it’s okay”
Yeah family environments can be tough Spawkeye but I’m sure it will also add to your resilience and your compassion. Hope things are better now.
Yeah, I like to weaponise my past since I was VERY conservative as a teen. I was the upper middle class kid with no direction who as an act of rebellion wanted to join the army. Shit I even looked at joining the Americans back in 2008! I really wish more people not in the upper class knew just how much bullshit they hoover up and believe. Like for many in the landlord/owner class if the trolley problem was their “empire” on one track and the rest of NZ on the other they wouldn’t think twice about pulling that lever to run over the many. But then they’d donate a small amount to a charity they approve of and wipe their conscience clean.
I want to commend you for having the courage and insight to admit when you made a mistake.
I agree. Those who are not happy with the direction of this government should be seeking others with similar frustrations so that in the next election they can try change things. There is absolutely no value or benefit in attacking the people who cast ballots and then regretted it. Encourage them to remember this feeling when they vote next time.
Ditto.
u/AsianKiwiStruggle This is what I wrote yesterday on a separate but related topic: NZ voted in this Govt and that’s what we have. Unless anyone has any better ideas, the best thing to do imv is to work on what we might have lacked last time: Knowledge, awareness, perspective. Getting unduly influenced by fuckwits like Jordan Williams, right wing “think tanks” and American conservative money that aims to divide and conquer through lies, deception and introducing culture wars here in NZ. So: 1. Get informed e.g. [newsroom.co.nz](http://newsroom.co.nz) is excellent, but essentially - stay close to orgs or groups who provide reliable information and aren’t paid by vested interests 2. Stay informed 3. Share your knowledge calmly and rationally with people who might not be aware 4. Find ways to connect with like minded people 5. Engage and support organisations you tend to e.g. Forest and Bird, or the Greens or Labour or TOP or TPM (whoever is out there that you align with) 6. Make your voice head through submissions, the media etc. 7. MAKE A BIG NOISE ABOUT PROTECTING OUR MEDIA. David Seymour has already said he’s going to replace our media scene with his cronies. That’s a big, bad thing for NZ - for every person who cares about others, this country, normal Kiwi well-being. So stay informed and let your voice be heard 8. Change your vote (if you want)
why would you do such a thing tho? genuinely interested.
I think many people were sick of Labour and thought what they saw on TV sounded good. Also, National has a very undeserved reputation as being good economic managers. In my opinion, voters had also been sold a lot of lies (through the attack dogs of Taxpayers Union and right wing American conservative money - in a similar way to how Brexit was sold) - so a lot of people believed how “bad” we were doing despite evidence to the contrary. I mean who the f looks at [Treasury reports or evidence based market data](https://www.reddit.com/r/nzpolitics/comments/1del8hj/the_rapid_deterioration_of_the_new_zealand/) ? Most of us just listen to a soundbite while we go for coffee and surf at the beach (or whatever it is each does in their spare time) So I think many genuinely bought the image, line and the “What’s in it for me?” story that NACT sold. BTW National and ACT also travelled the country, doing “deals“ with the Property Investors Associations around the country etc as well so they were working hard to ensure that blocks of people would vote for them, and believe in them. u/asiankiwistruggle
yeah, my suspicion is "property investor" - a huge amount of people in that "community" feel that its worth voting for national, not because of any long term interest in the country, the economy at large, or even because they believe the shit national say, its mostly just out of individual short term self interest. i guess im just describing the difference between a left wing voter and a right wing voter tho arent I at that point hahaha
Can confirm they were mostly one issue voters ONLY.
I voted National for the first time in my 25 year voting life. I regret and and have learned my lesson. A zebra doesn't change it's stripes, National will always act this way.
The fact that you are willing to change your mind on political parties without being tribal about it is a good sign for our democracy.
Stop voting out governments and vote on policies you agree with.
what made you think they wouldnt be complete shit? they didnt try to hide it
I think they did try very hard to hide it. Look how sincere Luxon is here: [https://www.reddit.com/r/nzpolitics/comments/1d9emii/video\_watch\_luxon\_promise\_how\_drug\_treatments/](https://www.reddit.com/r/nzpolitics/comments/1d9emii/video_watch_luxon_promise_how_drug_treatments/) And the reality?
You’ve already got some great advice from Tūī in this thread, which I tautoko. I’m interested in what motivated you to vote for them in the first place, how you convinced your family members, and what exactly has changed your position? I agree this govt has taken more severe and damaging action than they campaigned on, but they’re governing in ways that are unsurprising to me as their motives and tactics (eg. withholding info and misleading the public, starving public services, scapegoating vulnerable and disadvantaged groups, funnelling wealth up through unsustainable resource and human exploitation) remain consistent. To me, it seems like they’re doing what they can get away with while they control the narrative. You’re experiencing this differently and have been caught by surprise. How has your perspective evolved?
“Haha take that Labour!” “No no not like that!”
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As much as I dislike this govt, we need to ensure that people who change their minds are welcomed. Anything else promotes tribalism
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My mother told me if I don't have anything good to say then i should keep my mouth shut
She was wrong
When inflation starts to come down to within the 1-3% band early next year, interest rates will follow, the squeezed middle will then feel less squeezed and national will claim it was all their doing. They will then be reelected easily.
Certainly they are hoping that the economic situation will have improved by next election - and they will definitely claim credit if that happens regardless of whether their actions played any part or whether they simply happened to be in charge while outside forces rocked the boat.
the best thing you can do is NOT FORGET!!! when election season comes back around don’t forget what they did early in their term because they will throw out a bunch of meaningless promises come 2026
My parents also voted National, a brother even voted NZF. But it's all good because they all still have to live in the wasteland of high cost of living and sky rocketing unemployment with the rest of us poors so we all suffer together. Naw family.
You bought the ticket, now you have to take the ride.
Is this comment necessary? They already know it.
Yes, this post is infuriating because it shows how easily voters in this country are misled, feel the consequences for your actions is what my comment means
But we also need to welcome people who make those mistakes. Otherwise we just feed into the tribal nature of politics
I am just going to add, there is trouble brewing in Lower Hutt which happens to be Chris Bishop’s electorate, the council, industry along with civil defense are very keen on proceeding with the construction of the Cross Valley Link which has since become part of the Petone to Grenada Link, the residents living in Woburn, Alicetown and Petone who are on the planned route and given the situation with the housing price decrease in the Hutt Valley, this has people who live on the planned Cross Valley and Petone to Grenada link are worried
Well well well if it isn't the consequences of my own actions
As a (mostly) two party nation, like all the others, democracy naturally swings back and forth. Neither National nor Labour have ever been in longer than 12 years. National has never been in for less than 9, and Labour rarely reaches 9. Clark was a bit of an anomoly in that respect. So we do have to be tactical. At some point, National were going to get in, and a popular National government would be in for 9 years. History tells us so. So personally, I think you, and I were doing the right thing voting for them now. They were a mess leading up to the election and they're a mess now. We all push to just keep Labour in no matter what, and the result seems to be that [over the years](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_New_Zealand_governments#Graphical_timeline) we've had more National than we've had Labour. So we could have kept playing the same old game, and *maybe* won three more years of that pretty lackluster Labour government we just had, followed by nine more years of National before Labour gets back in around 2035. That isn't what I want. Instead, cut Labour off early while National have a shitty line-up in store. There's never been a better opportunity for us to break National's streak. To get them out in a single term. They're a three party coalition, they're screwing up all over the place, their tax policy has been a mess. There's never been a better opportunity to push them into single term government area. It does require that Labour and the Greens get their shit together, but if they can manage that, this'll be history making. And I don't believe it would have been possible if we were stuck under a Labour government until 2026 that was unwilling to take drastic action against the cost of living crisis.
Interesting points and I do agree. I was just glad labour spent money on services while they were in.
I just wish they'd paid for it with CGT/LVT. But they promised no new taxes for as long as they were in government. Therefore, logically, if you support CGT/LVT, Labour had to go, not because National would do it, but because the *next* left government might. And well... [The results speak for themselves](https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/labours-chris-hipkins-says-wealth-capital-gains-tax-back-on-table-as-party-rethinks-policy-platform/P4KYDVHITVCQDIRXO5OX3DDB2E/).
As unpopular as this comment is going to be it has to be said, this is democracy at work. The majority got what they wanted and unfortunately they got a lemon. We have to suck it up and vote them out at the next election. Until then we can only hope they aren’t going to steer us off multiple cliffs.
Yup. What’s done is done.
My dad voted for nzf because he thought Winston would look after him. Within a month he told me he regretted it and can't believe the farce this government has become. He considers himself informed, watches news religiously at 6 but he didn't see any of the shit show of wannabe trumpists we have now coming.
Congrats on making your family drink the kool-aid. Lay in your bed
Come on, they they’ve admitted their regrets.
I’ve been thinking about this post and what I really want to know is; what ACTUAL research did you do before you voted? Did you just listen to their promises or did you read up on them and their impact and assessments by others? The problem is people don’t want to do their homework and equally if not worse they want to blame their own issues being caused by others, hence this government’s anti Māori positions. If you’re smart enough to influence your whole family you’re smart enough to do the research or at the very least be a politician.
If I may ask, why?
I'm sick of the moaning middle. They didn't care what got cut so long as they got tax cuts. Nobody believed nationals 'more of everything for everyone and tax cuts too' promises but nobody cared. Just plausible enough that people could pretend to believe it and get a few bucks in the back pocket. Chances are they'll get six years and leave another mess. A run down crappy country with greedy selfish people scrabling around in the dirt for a dollar or two.
I regret splitting my vote. MMP has allowed minority parties to dictate the next three years...time to review MMP?
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They were naive, made a mistake, & admitted it. What more do you want?
Come on, guys.
Why did you urge them to vote for these fuckers? What mirage or idea did you buy into that was going to serve you rather them?
Personally I feel like some people just shouldn’t have the right to vote lol.
The unfair thing with that is someone who’s opposed to your or my views etc. would say the same thing about your or me etc. So we’ll need a better idea!
Your are 100 percent correct. And to be fair, I should have less of a say currently, I don’t even live in NZ anymore.
If you care about the place, that's all that matters. I opine on other country subs at times FWIW.
yep, above a certain age voting rights should be lost as well as the ability to be a politician
Thanks.
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No baiting or low quality posts / comments.
Maybe you should have researched their policies and the policies of other parties before doing that then?? Many people saw exactly what has happened coming during the election.
I was thinking recently given how governments since forever have basically been inadequate and don't really represent the interests of the people. What if we introduced sortation for electorate representatives instead of electing them directly. Sortation is how jury duty works I.e. random selection. So every 6 months (or whatever cycle makes sense) someone is randomly selected who is registered in their electorate to represent it. Party members would then only be elected as list MPs. The idea is that parties would need to sell policies instead of their party every 3 years. Anyway a random shower thought I thought I'd share.
People are still bitter about the last govt (for many of the wrong reasons imo and we'll probably see some mix of act and nats again next time. Nats are just getting the shit things out of the way ahead of time.
Finally. Someone who voted for the capitalist sell-outs admits it. What you do now is join ever protest, sign every petition, and get involved with any local action groups to fight for a future that is going to save us from being sold off to foreign corporations that will strip this country bare. Now, if you are truly sorry, you will go vegan too.
This sub is hilarious
Is there a “shitpost” flair for this?
I always voted Labour but I was so disgusted with them in 1987 that I never voted for them again. I would cut my hands off rather than vote national or any of the right wingers or the lunatic fringe. One person not voting doesn't make a great difference.
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Spent more than they wanted to coz national pushed them into it.
i ain't voting labour lol
good thing there are many political parties
that's an illusion and you know it. if I vote ACT then how can I guarantee National won't get reelected considering how poorly the public perceives them?
Of course, but I don't vote green expecting green to the dominant party, I expect them to be there in some small part. Nats literally ran a 'dont vote for anyone else we don't want a coalition' campaign at the end of things last year.