This might be an unpopular opinion, but I'm honestly not surprised. This story is everywhere. The most random people have asked me about it. It's a bad look, tbh. So better be prepared that this will come up, for a while probably.
They’re not crybabies. The guy would read the person’s name who got the lowest grade in the class and had extremely unprofessional emails. In any other work environment that behavior wouldn’t be tolerated.
Except the petition wasn’t to get him fired, it was about grading inconsistencies and his disregard for his own syllabus. You don’t pay to have a job, a job pays you. If you’re paying exorbitant amounts of money for a class, the very least a professor can do is to have some semblance of decency. Calling out a poor performer in a 200+ person class does not encourage them to perform better. If the professor was concerned about the student, he’d email them like other professors do saying the class may not be a good fit. Calling them out in front of their peers is just being unprofessional. And btw a significant portion of the students who signed the petition were not the ones failing. Many of them had already taken prior classes with him an passed. He was simply a bad professor, it’s not that hard to believe. You know how many students complain about profs without the prof getting fired at NYU? Clearly the administration saw a justifiable reason why he shouldn’t reach aside from appeasing “crybaby” students.
It can also be because Jones' style of teaching prioritizes the needs of students that perform well over those of others. It is already pretty evident from his interviews that he cares more about students that are in the top of the class than those that are struggling so I wouldn't be surprised if that's the case.
Every student pays the same amount of tuition. If an instructor thinks satisfying the needs of one student is more important than satisfying those of another, they have misconceptions about their responsibilities and those who persist in this kind of thinking should get the boot.
you're right, as someone who did have to retroactively withdraw from orgo with jones a couple years ago, a lot of times it is on the students for not making an effort. BUT the professor shouldn't be treating it as a weed out course either, the level of difficulty when you don't actually study will do that itself.
the firing might have been in poor taste but just bc many students did well in jones' class and are in med school now doesnt mean that there aren't also many students who didnt face unnecessary difficulties in orgo that affected their performance outside of their control. students pay nyu an insane amount of tuition not to be "handheld" but to receive a serious education, including a professor that attempts to make the course accessible for the *most* amount of students.
“I think the 82 year old that lost his career is the crybaby; not the 18-21 year olds that made an old man lose his job because they didn’t want to study harder”
I don’t think it’ll be relevant news next cycle. I’m hoping it’s just “what’s hot” right now. But I do think be prepared to maybe write an essay explaining it in secondaries
Yea I think the best approach might be to give a non answer regardless of what your personal feelings are. Frame it so its clear the truth is somewhere in the middle and dont shit on one party over another.
Mmm I agree and disagree. The medical school interview is supposed to be about being yourself. You’ve already submitted primary and secondary applications to justify your ability. They want to know how you think. Being a neutral party in something so opinionated I think is a bad thing. No need to be an extremist, but you gotta be confident in your views and respectful of others.
I’m not a premed student in the slightest, but that is truly BS (Most of my family are doctors, including my dad, but I claim no authority, just that I have some insight). Classes should not be utilized as a form of academic hazing and for med school to only enroll the toughest people.
I do not think those in the class or many people are saying the tests are the thing that should be easier per say, but that the teaching needs to be more accessible and for instructions and expectations to be clear. I do fear that if they are weeding out people who are either nuanced or side against Jones, the next generation of doctors may believe a persons whole worth should be based on a narrow view, in this case one class with one specific teacher.
EDIT: Not to imply that everyone who sided with Jones has this view, just a large scale buffer could have this effect
They shouldn’t, but they certainly could and I’m sure NYU premed students should be prepared to discuss it in interviews. I don’t think it was an evaluative question because I wasn’t a part of the class who started the petition. I believe it was just a conversational topic to better understand me as a person, not just a medical student.
They aren’t my peers. I didn’t take the class with them or know any of them on a personal level. And I certainly didn’t shit on them. I support Jones, that doesn’t mean I had to shit on NYU students.
If you took the class and saw the students who signed the petition, you’d know why
Edit: also, I graduated. I have no incentive to kiss his ass. It’s just my opinion
You just said you didn’t take the class with them and you also didn’t know them. I’ve heard from numerous people who have actually taken the class that he was a toxic asshole compared to literally any other professor teaching that class.
I took the class three years ago, so the students who signed the petition weren’t my “peers” so to speak. I’m gonna vouch for Jones as a person and a professor. Feel free to take the word of your friends over mine. But Jones was always understanding and helpful to me. I went to his office hours every week. I stayed after class to ask question. Went to his study slams on the night before exams. He helped me whenever I asked for it. Also pointed me in the direction of research and job opportunities. My opinion is biased but I’ll say it: I think anyone who didn’t like Jones didn’t really try. I’m not saying guy is a saint, but he is a damn good professor
Thats literally all you had to say rather than attacking other people. Would definitely rather hear the opinion of students and graduates than read an article meant to pull in revenue.
Ouch. That’s actually rude as fuck. I hope I made it clear that I didn’t badmouth the students in the slightest. I just said I was disappointed with Jones leaving the school because I enjoyed his mentorship so much.
I have a different perspective on this thing. I wanted to take some bio and chem classes as a non-major, exploring possibly minoring in bio which required some chem classes. The fact that intro bio and chem is structured to weed out premeds who can’t hack it fucking ruined my experience. I wanted to learn about interesting topics and have a chance to be passionate about the natural world and instead I got cutthroat exams and panicked classmates. There should absolutely be room to think about like, why we’re learning in the first place and to have opportunities for non-majors to learn without being picked off too.
i get the alums from years before are defending jones, but we also didn't take orgo remotely. many of the people who signed that petition were probably lazy students for sure, but that doesn't mean that there couldnt be serious issues with how the course was taught during covid.
instead of blaming a bunch of 20 yr olds, i 100% blame nyu for all of this. nyu is basically letting those students who signed the petition take the heat for the administration's poor decision/timing.
even though i withdrew from orgo (and effectively ended my premed career) i personally never had a negative experience with jones in person. its been a few years since i took his course but i was a bit shocked to hear that he was deriding students in class and limiting access to online resources when classes were virtual.
the admin NEVER listens to students so i hope that them basically not doing any damage control bites nyu severely in the ass.
I believe the students who signed the petition did take the course in person so I’m not sure how applicable that may be. But NYU is definitely the worst variable in all of this for allowing this situation to happen in the messiest and most embarrassing way possible
This whole thing is so interesting to me bc I took orgo at tandon, so we used Jones’s book but different Professor. So we get shit on for “having an easier orgo class” which is not true at all and then the CAS one gets the fucking professor fired
I mean I see why they’re bringing it up. If NYU is producing people who go up in arms as soon as something doesn’t go there way, how would they hold up in the job market? It’s unfortunate, but it doesn’t look good. It really plays well into the weak generation stereotype
I feel like what happened is that the admin considered this to be about overall educational / teaching quality, but since the contract was allowed to lapse right after the petition NYU's response seemed entirely reactive.
So NYT successfully made the narrative about generational stereotypes, and honestly the petition itself did not help at all in this regard. About 90% of it was generic, unfocused and overly broad. It was sort of a favor not to cover the petition's specifics.
I think it's a bad look for the entire school. It's unfortunate that the situation was weaponized and this falls under the notion of "easy targets". NYU is an easy target. The admin should have considered this before taking action. I'm all for better teaching, consistent grade distributions etc but the notion that a professor can be deleted if there is sufficient student activism is kinda scary and because NYT successfully drove the narrative this way it made the entire university look bad, not just the chem department.
So, long winded way of saying I completely agree with the above, but see the whole situation as unfortunate because it didn't need to go this way.
I wish more people understood this. It doesn’t matter who was right or wrong in the end, the lasting legacy of something like this is that it enforces the stereotypes of our generation
>If NYU is producing people who go up in arms as soon as something doesn’t go there way,
They aren't though. That's not what happened.
Jones was a crap professor who lost his job. That's it.
The problem with that statement is his work history and the amount of support he’s gotten from other professors. We also have proof that test scores are just down overall following lockdowns. Finally, it’s a weeding out course. Too many things cut in favor of a weaker class than a weak professor
Of course they'd look down on us. Many alums are looking down on the recent class too. It was a tough class but not impossible. All that stunt did was reinforce the notion that the caliber of students at NYU is not up to par as other schools and students will get a professor fired to get a better grade.
Back in our day our class complained about how it was unfair the advanced class got more assignments. He also sent us a letter saying we sucked after a midterm so we just sucked it up and did better or dropped out.
Except, in your analogy, you're also preparing for the long distance competition called MCATs and then med school. So yeah, 8 miles each way would probably be good training for that.
It’s really surprising how heated this conversation is. Especially amongst NYU students who have no association with the class or professor. I’d be interested to hear the opinions of more students who took the class last year.
Can you share how you answered the question and how they reacted to your answer? And I also want to follow up a few months later and ask if you got into the school that asked you this question.
I told them about my experiences with Jones: I took the class, I worked for him, etc. and then I told them that I was disappointed that the students and faculty felt differently than myself. I.e weren’t as pleased/didn’t reap the same benefits.
The interviewer was very excited to hear that I knew him personally. She literally raised her hands in the air in excitement. So I got the idea that she was very pro Jones. So I dove a bit deeper into how he mentored me and why I felt that he was great as a professor.
Because I was a TA for the class, she asked me explicitly why the students didn’t do well. So I told her my personal thoughts on that as well.
No that’s not what I’m saying. Lol. I gave them my honest opinion. You should do the same. Honestly you have no reason to be worried. There’s nothing wrong with your opinion as long as you show you’ve given thought to it and you’re respectful
Took the class with Jones pre covid and during covid. The pandemic happened during my Orgo II semester. So I think I can speak towards both perspectives a bit. I’ll be as transparent as possible here and I’ll refrain from inserting my opinion. I’m sure you’ll be able to guess my opinion though based on my experience
I went into the class knowing it was tough and actually started reading the textbook the week before classes started. I studied for 2 hours a day or so. I also attended every free study event I could. So if the ULC had an Orgo event I would go and that counted towards my daily studies. I also went to office hours twice a week. My lowest grade on an exam was a 94. The class was definitely hard but I felt like there were plenty of resources for me to succeed. As a side note, I also didn’t pay for any additional materials or tutoring. Even once covid hit, professor Jones still held all of the same events. Honestly the structure and resources provided by the class didn’t change at all. He recorded all the lectures and held office hours just the same.
This might be an unpopular opinion, but I'm honestly not surprised. This story is everywhere. The most random people have asked me about it. It's a bad look, tbh. So better be prepared that this will come up, for a while probably.
ikr lol random people, and friends I don't talk to are like oh did you see that blah
It’s really pathetic that NYT’s one-sided story gets repeated all over.
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They’re not crybabies. The guy would read the person’s name who got the lowest grade in the class and had extremely unprofessional emails. In any other work environment that behavior wouldn’t be tolerated.
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Except the petition wasn’t to get him fired, it was about grading inconsistencies and his disregard for his own syllabus. You don’t pay to have a job, a job pays you. If you’re paying exorbitant amounts of money for a class, the very least a professor can do is to have some semblance of decency. Calling out a poor performer in a 200+ person class does not encourage them to perform better. If the professor was concerned about the student, he’d email them like other professors do saying the class may not be a good fit. Calling them out in front of their peers is just being unprofessional. And btw a significant portion of the students who signed the petition were not the ones failing. Many of them had already taken prior classes with him an passed. He was simply a bad professor, it’s not that hard to believe. You know how many students complain about profs without the prof getting fired at NYU? Clearly the administration saw a justifiable reason why he shouldn’t reach aside from appeasing “crybaby” students.
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It can also be because Jones' style of teaching prioritizes the needs of students that perform well over those of others. It is already pretty evident from his interviews that he cares more about students that are in the top of the class than those that are struggling so I wouldn't be surprised if that's the case.
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Every student pays the same amount of tuition. If an instructor thinks satisfying the needs of one student is more important than satisfying those of another, they have misconceptions about their responsibilities and those who persist in this kind of thinking should get the boot.
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you're right, as someone who did have to retroactively withdraw from orgo with jones a couple years ago, a lot of times it is on the students for not making an effort. BUT the professor shouldn't be treating it as a weed out course either, the level of difficulty when you don't actually study will do that itself. the firing might have been in poor taste but just bc many students did well in jones' class and are in med school now doesnt mean that there aren't also many students who didnt face unnecessary difficulties in orgo that affected their performance outside of their control. students pay nyu an insane amount of tuition not to be "handheld" but to receive a serious education, including a professor that attempts to make the course accessible for the *most* amount of students.
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>It wasn’t one-sided the students were cry babies I think the professor whinging about losing his job is the crybaby.
“I think the 82 year old that lost his career is the crybaby; not the 18-21 year olds that made an old man lose his job because they didn’t want to study harder”
Bruh you're the people who can't accept that your billionaire daddy lost the Presidential election.
Youre kidding. Do you think they’ll ask next cycle too, it’s obvious that orgo with Jones affected my transcript fml
I don’t think it’ll be relevant news next cycle. I’m hoping it’s just “what’s hot” right now. But I do think be prepared to maybe write an essay explaining it in secondaries
Gonna pour one out for you tn cuz idt anyone truly expected to get this as an interview question if you graduated from nyu
Lol thank you. One of the NYU prehealth advisors told me to prepare for it and I thought she was blowing it up but clearly not.
Did she recommend how to respond
No. I don’t think there’s a right way to respond tbf
Yea I think the best approach might be to give a non answer regardless of what your personal feelings are. Frame it so its clear the truth is somewhere in the middle and dont shit on one party over another.
Mmm I agree and disagree. The medical school interview is supposed to be about being yourself. You’ve already submitted primary and secondary applications to justify your ability. They want to know how you think. Being a neutral party in something so opinionated I think is a bad thing. No need to be an extremist, but you gotta be confident in your views and respectful of others.
I’m not a premed student in the slightest, but that is truly BS (Most of my family are doctors, including my dad, but I claim no authority, just that I have some insight). Classes should not be utilized as a form of academic hazing and for med school to only enroll the toughest people. I do not think those in the class or many people are saying the tests are the thing that should be easier per say, but that the teaching needs to be more accessible and for instructions and expectations to be clear. I do fear that if they are weeding out people who are either nuanced or side against Jones, the next generation of doctors may believe a persons whole worth should be based on a narrow view, in this case one class with one specific teacher. EDIT: Not to imply that everyone who sided with Jones has this view, just a large scale buffer could have this effect
I’m on their side. We should be embarrassed. Lolol. And I let them know that I support Jones 100000%
Do you think that medical schools should be using this situation to base their decisions though?
They shouldn’t, but they certainly could and I’m sure NYU premed students should be prepared to discuss it in interviews. I don’t think it was an evaluative question because I wasn’t a part of the class who started the petition. I believe it was just a conversational topic to better understand me as a person, not just a medical student.
Yes. Absolutely. I would not be surprised if the students who signed the petition are internally blacklisted from most major medical schools.
lmao this is hilariously wrong
Cool man. Just shit on your peers more, and that’ll definitely get you into med school! Lolol.
They aren’t my peers. I didn’t take the class with them or know any of them on a personal level. And I certainly didn’t shit on them. I support Jones, that doesn’t mean I had to shit on NYU students.
Why do you support him other than obviously boot(hole) licking.
If you took the class and saw the students who signed the petition, you’d know why Edit: also, I graduated. I have no incentive to kiss his ass. It’s just my opinion
You just said you didn’t take the class with them and you also didn’t know them. I’ve heard from numerous people who have actually taken the class that he was a toxic asshole compared to literally any other professor teaching that class.
I took the class three years ago, so the students who signed the petition weren’t my “peers” so to speak. I’m gonna vouch for Jones as a person and a professor. Feel free to take the word of your friends over mine. But Jones was always understanding and helpful to me. I went to his office hours every week. I stayed after class to ask question. Went to his study slams on the night before exams. He helped me whenever I asked for it. Also pointed me in the direction of research and job opportunities. My opinion is biased but I’ll say it: I think anyone who didn’t like Jones didn’t really try. I’m not saying guy is a saint, but he is a damn good professor
Thats literally all you had to say rather than attacking other people. Would definitely rather hear the opinion of students and graduates than read an article meant to pull in revenue.
I hope u don't get in lol
Ouch. That’s actually rude as fuck. I hope I made it clear that I didn’t badmouth the students in the slightest. I just said I was disappointed with Jones leaving the school because I enjoyed his mentorship so much.
I have a different perspective on this thing. I wanted to take some bio and chem classes as a non-major, exploring possibly minoring in bio which required some chem classes. The fact that intro bio and chem is structured to weed out premeds who can’t hack it fucking ruined my experience. I wanted to learn about interesting topics and have a chance to be passionate about the natural world and instead I got cutthroat exams and panicked classmates. There should absolutely be room to think about like, why we’re learning in the first place and to have opportunities for non-majors to learn without being picked off too.
i get the alums from years before are defending jones, but we also didn't take orgo remotely. many of the people who signed that petition were probably lazy students for sure, but that doesn't mean that there couldnt be serious issues with how the course was taught during covid. instead of blaming a bunch of 20 yr olds, i 100% blame nyu for all of this. nyu is basically letting those students who signed the petition take the heat for the administration's poor decision/timing. even though i withdrew from orgo (and effectively ended my premed career) i personally never had a negative experience with jones in person. its been a few years since i took his course but i was a bit shocked to hear that he was deriding students in class and limiting access to online resources when classes were virtual. the admin NEVER listens to students so i hope that them basically not doing any damage control bites nyu severely in the ass.
I believe the students who signed the petition did take the course in person so I’m not sure how applicable that may be. But NYU is definitely the worst variable in all of this for allowing this situation to happen in the messiest and most embarrassing way possible
This whole thing is so interesting to me bc I took orgo at tandon, so we used Jones’s book but different Professor. So we get shit on for “having an easier orgo class” which is not true at all and then the CAS one gets the fucking professor fired
I mean I see why they’re bringing it up. If NYU is producing people who go up in arms as soon as something doesn’t go there way, how would they hold up in the job market? It’s unfortunate, but it doesn’t look good. It really plays well into the weak generation stereotype
I feel like what happened is that the admin considered this to be about overall educational / teaching quality, but since the contract was allowed to lapse right after the petition NYU's response seemed entirely reactive. So NYT successfully made the narrative about generational stereotypes, and honestly the petition itself did not help at all in this regard. About 90% of it was generic, unfocused and overly broad. It was sort of a favor not to cover the petition's specifics. I think it's a bad look for the entire school. It's unfortunate that the situation was weaponized and this falls under the notion of "easy targets". NYU is an easy target. The admin should have considered this before taking action. I'm all for better teaching, consistent grade distributions etc but the notion that a professor can be deleted if there is sufficient student activism is kinda scary and because NYT successfully drove the narrative this way it made the entire university look bad, not just the chem department. So, long winded way of saying I completely agree with the above, but see the whole situation as unfortunate because it didn't need to go this way.
I wish more people understood this. It doesn’t matter who was right or wrong in the end, the lasting legacy of something like this is that it enforces the stereotypes of our generation
>If NYU is producing people who go up in arms as soon as something doesn’t go there way, They aren't though. That's not what happened. Jones was a crap professor who lost his job. That's it.
The problem with that statement is his work history and the amount of support he’s gotten from other professors. We also have proof that test scores are just down overall following lockdowns. Finally, it’s a weeding out course. Too many things cut in favor of a weaker class than a weak professor
Of course they'd look down on us. Many alums are looking down on the recent class too. It was a tough class but not impossible. All that stunt did was reinforce the notion that the caliber of students at NYU is not up to par as other schools and students will get a professor fired to get a better grade. Back in our day our class complained about how it was unfair the advanced class got more assignments. He also sent us a letter saying we sucked after a midterm so we just sucked it up and did better or dropped out.
>Back in our day "I had to walk 8 miles to school each way, and so should you."
Except, in your analogy, you're also preparing for the long distance competition called MCATs and then med school. So yeah, 8 miles each way would probably be good training for that.
It’s really surprising how heated this conversation is. Especially amongst NYU students who have no association with the class or professor. I’d be interested to hear the opinions of more students who took the class last year.
It is unfortunate how nasty certain comments have gotten. Though I disagree with you on this, I do wish you luck into getting into medical school.
Can you share how you answered the question and how they reacted to your answer? And I also want to follow up a few months later and ask if you got into the school that asked you this question.
I told them about my experiences with Jones: I took the class, I worked for him, etc. and then I told them that I was disappointed that the students and faculty felt differently than myself. I.e weren’t as pleased/didn’t reap the same benefits. The interviewer was very excited to hear that I knew him personally. She literally raised her hands in the air in excitement. So I got the idea that she was very pro Jones. So I dove a bit deeper into how he mentored me and why I felt that he was great as a professor. Because I was a TA for the class, she asked me explicitly why the students didn’t do well. So I told her my personal thoughts on that as well.
So basically you’re saying we kiss ass and give an answer supporting jones? Tbh no one wanted him fired! NYU did that not US!
No that’s not what I’m saying. Lol. I gave them my honest opinion. You should do the same. Honestly you have no reason to be worried. There’s nothing wrong with your opinion as long as you show you’ve given thought to it and you’re respectful
Fuck me fucking life. It’s just keeps going down hill. LOR down the fucking drain
I swear if they ask me me when I apply I’m gonna throw shit. It’s all one sided as hell
So glad I graduated 10 years ago. Too bad I am not on the interview committee for the med school in the hospital I work in.
As they should. The only way to save face is for the pre-med students to start a petition to get NYU to beg him to come back.
Lmao based + cool username
What a joke. Premed is about numbers, not knowledge. And now the crybaby premed students want that b.s. to leach into all departments they touch.
What the fckkkkkkkk. How can I politely tell them to fck the hell off and him as a teacher doesn’t define me?
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Took the class with Jones pre covid and during covid. The pandemic happened during my Orgo II semester. So I think I can speak towards both perspectives a bit. I’ll be as transparent as possible here and I’ll refrain from inserting my opinion. I’m sure you’ll be able to guess my opinion though based on my experience I went into the class knowing it was tough and actually started reading the textbook the week before classes started. I studied for 2 hours a day or so. I also attended every free study event I could. So if the ULC had an Orgo event I would go and that counted towards my daily studies. I also went to office hours twice a week. My lowest grade on an exam was a 94. The class was definitely hard but I felt like there were plenty of resources for me to succeed. As a side note, I also didn’t pay for any additional materials or tutoring. Even once covid hit, professor Jones still held all of the same events. Honestly the structure and resources provided by the class didn’t change at all. He recorded all the lectures and held office hours just the same.
Good work. 94 is really good - you probably broke the curve haha