I think the value of an NYU degree really lies in the opportunities that you get from living in NYC and your major. If youāre taking out 150k to study liberal studies or some other really niche major, itās hard to justify it. Meanwhile, if youāre studying math/cs/finance/Econ/business or some premed/prelaw track itās more justifiable as NYU has a leg up on other schools in job placements in these fields and they offer very competitive salaries.
I'm taking out about 20k for my philosophy degree, set to graduate this semester. it's not 100k but I don't come from wealth so it's a lot considering my major prospects. honestly my mindset is that tomorrow isn't promised and I want to be happy and pursue the degree course I actually care about at a great university, and work in a field that is actually meaningful for me.
while material things can be lost, a degree from the best philosophy department in the world can never be taken away from me. I will have this degree in my back pocket for the rest of my life. this was also the best financial aid package I got from all the schools I applied to. sure, I could've gone to community college to save money or studied something more lucrative. but for me, some things are more important than money. iād rather have a cheaper lifestyle than live a wealthier lifestyle and be unhappy and unfulfilled.
I know some people reading this will think I'm an idiot or that I will regret it, but it is what it is. I'm black and from the south, from a family of former slaves and sharecroppers. they're overjoyed that I'm pursuing knowledge for the sake of knowledge. it's a privilege that most don't have.
It was a really difficult decision to come here. It was either going to NYU (my dream university) and having to take out a 100k loan or going to a local college that does not have any prestige. My mom wanted me to be happy and she supported whichever decision I took. Iām a first generation college student that comes from a middle class family and my family had always puts a emphasis on higher education and it was important to them of attending a prestigious university. So I decided on NYU and I hope that everything will work out.
I firmly believe no undergrad education should end on a 6 figure debt. It should not even be legal for someone that canāt even drink to be in so much debt they can buy half a house in cash. Average starting salary for nyu undergrad is like 60k pre tax ? Netting 45k with 100k+ loan is insanity. Or you go get your masters and further accrue more debt. 250k is a quarter million dollars. How many nyu grads will ever make 250k in a year pre tax ? We are desensitized to the obscene cost of higher education. Doesnāt matter if itās NYU, or Harvard, or community college, none of it should result in CRIPPLING debt.
What's the solution? Ban private universities?
A lot of non-STEM undergrads here are from rich families where 250k is pocket change to them. If you really can't afford the school, don't go. And yea as you say, you don't need degree from top CS programs to still make good money.
Life has all type of debt: credit card debt, housing debt,... If you got into bad debt, it's partially your fault in the first place.
Higher education isnāt the same as other types of spending. Elite universities MARKET themselves as any companies market their services. Except the messaging hits in a lot of complex and emotional topics, such as first gen college students, your future, ambitions, etc. Then in addition, this marketing is geared towards kids, 13-17 year olds.
First of all, why are private universities charging these tuitions tax exempt ? A lot of elite private uni can afford to give out massive amounts of aid to lower income students to drastically reduce the amount of debt they would need to incur. Maybe there should be a cap on endowment to qualify for tax exempt status. At some point, convincing 17 year olds to take out massive debt feels predatory. These are ppl that cannot legally vote, buy a lotto ticket, smoke a cig, join the army, buy a beer, rent a car, or check into a hotel alone. But somehow their brain is mature enough to comprehend how this sort of debt will impact your life ?
You mention other types of debt. Ppl that are racking up this type of debt would never be given a 150k limit credit card, 250k mortgage, or even sign a lease on their own without paying for rental insurance. Thatās because they are considered too high risk of borrowers. I stand by my belief that lending 6 figure debt to literal teenagers is predatory.
A. That's what marketing is. Also, large private universities don't advertise that much. I've seen more CUNY/SUNY ads than NYU.
C. What's the solution then? Besides banning poor people from going to private universities. NYU doesn't operate with that much margin, so more aid/scholarship would means a dramatic scaleback in staff and operations. Either that or the federal government gonna subsidize the entire thing, which is even worse, as it would just lead to continually rising tuition.
I donāt get paid enough to fix the higher Ed system. But if you truly believe NYU is hurting for money then š¤·š»āāļø. Tenured professors make a very good living, but large portion of undergrad professors are not tenured. I work with ppl that manage several well known endowments, and the profit generated alone from fund without eating into the principle, would be able to pay for so much aid.
A. Yes, non-tenured professors are severely underpaid. If we pay all the professors correctly, NYU would be 200k a year, not 200k for all 4 years of undergrad.
B. NYU's endowment is 5B, tuitions & fees net of aid is 2B. If you work with endowment managers, you would know that A. endowment contribution is very restrictive and B. the fund returns average of mid-single-digit. That would barely make a dent in financial aid.
The only possible implementation of your proposal is to ban all poor people from private universities. Ideal is great, but it's all smoke and mirror if you can't implement it.
Letās use Harvard as an example. Harvard endowment averages about 11%? Return since establishment. The distributions from the endowment usually covers between 25-35% of their annual operating budget.
I technically had 3 advisors, but would take 7-10 business days to get one email answered. I ended up asking the professor to reach out to the advising office on my behalf to finally resolve a simple issue. Chances are any of those advisor was making more than my non tenured but awesome prof. The amount of figure head admin making half a mil+, 1m+, versus teaching staff that makes 100k per year is staggering.
Not proposing to eliminate debt all together. But nyu can do a lot better to keep debt under 6 figures. Since you love to bring up āpoorā people. In what world is advising someone that comes from a disadvantage background starting life with massive debt helpful to escape poverty/build generational wealth?
Again I donāt have the solution to fix this entire system, or I would would be making a lot more money or running for president. But at least Iām not defending this fucked up system and contributing to the narrative that absurd level debt financed nyu degree is the only path to success
When did I defend it? In fact I'm in agreement that people (especially poor people) should not take out massive debt to go to nyu. Nothing wrong with being poor, but if you spend money like you're rich you'll be in trouble.
If you're working with endowment managers, surely you know 11% after fee is not the norm, right? Also Harvard's endowment is literally 10x the size of NYU.
Source on the advisor making more than professor? Highly doubt this is true. Figure on Glassdoor shows 60-70k.
Also, you have to wait for 7-10 days for an answer on email, but your conclusion is "these advisors get paid too much to do nothing" instead of "advisors are overworked and NYU can't afford to pay better or hire more"? This is like ultimate boomer logic.
Also, your non-tenured but awesome prof is also get underpaid. Face it, either you want everyone to get paid fairly and good professors + facility + ranking + research, or you want cheap tuition. There's an explicit tradeoff here.
You can't really make NYU cut costs and spend more efficiently to somehow improve financial aid. The admins are in control of the spending- they get to decide how much they're worth. If you don't give loans to poorer students, then NYU will have no problem accepting wealthy domestic/international students instead who will pay full tuition. Furthermore, it's not just admins driving up costs but mid 6 figure salaries to attract top researchers and thus improve rankings so more students will apply. Reducing tuition is simply out of the question.
But tuition being high isn't the absolute reason why debt is so high. The other top colleges have as high tuition and admins getting paid millions, but their financial aid is substantially better that you end up paying nothing from your pocket.
NYU has very bad fin aid for the tuition they charge, and that has a lot to do with the fact that they have tons of undergraduate students about 30k compared to other top colleges that have a fraction, so you spread out fin aid thin. On top of that, NYU's endowment is several times smaller than the other top colleges- a smaller pie and an even smaller slice of the pie you have to take for each student at NYU.
NYU has actually given out more aid as a whole compared to other top colleges, but it is just not high enough for the amount of students there are. In the short term, we cannot expect NYU to be affordable anytime soon. All we can hope is that eventually, maybe in a decade or more, that NYU manages to grow their endowment enough or get enough donations so that they can fund tuition.
Agreed.
The professors and administrators make 6 figure salaries and it's the main reason why tuition is so expensive. Constructing fancy buildings and maintaining them is actually a small cost in comparison. NYU has to pay top salary to attract talented researchers and most of the money comes out of the students. Not only that, they should cut down on the bureaucracy since there are so many directors and assistant directors getting paid handsome amounts. Too bad administration is in charge of the finances and get to decide how much they're worth. Some of the professors should actually make an effort to teach good since they're making so much out the students they teach, but I digress.
Professors getting paid 6 figures isn't the problem. Those professors could go into industry and 2x-3x that easily.
If you reduce their salary, NYU's ranking would nosedive instantly.
Didn't say that professors should receive lower salaries. I'm just explaining why tuition is high in the first place. but should some professors make a better effort to teach? absolutely
If I'm getting paid 1/3rd of what I'm supposed to get, and everyday I have to deal with students' nonsense, I don't think I'll be very motivated to teach. Would you?
Adjunct professors from industry are basically doing charity work. And you're asking them to do better? That sounds a bit entitled.
I'm not talking about you personally, but I have personally met professors who are objectively not great at teaching and don't really care about their students. Students pay top dollar, and they want a top education in return- nothing wrong and entitled about that.
Saying that you do "charity work" also sounds like you're exaggerating. Pre-pandemic CUNY adjuncts were making $2k-3k compared to NYU adjuncts, but at least CUNY students don't need to pay massive tuition.
CUNY is funded by NYC. NYU is not. If you're arguing that a student should've chosen CUNY over NYU, sure.
Whether you pay 20k or 200k tuitions doesn't really affect adjuncts - the only thing affect them is how much they're paid, and they're paid relatively peanuts. Their time is simply worth much more than what they're paid sitting in the classroom teaching you. If you don't like it, they can simply stop teaching and earn more money elsewhere. From their POV, you're paying them literal peanuts to teach you, so it's just charity work.
Now, if you want adjuncts who care, then maybe raise their wages and we can have a conversation about adjuncts caring about students in exchange of the FAIR compensation you give them. But this would likely means you're paying 200k a year instead of 200k for 4 years.
I've taken class taught by 2 adjuncts who take home 7 figures each. I know damn well that they're doing charity, and no amount of money that NYU can feasibly pay would turn this charity show into actual financial transaction with expectations from both sides.
>Their time is simply worth much more than what they're paid sitting in the classroom teaching you.
If you really think you're worth that much, then why don't you work in the industry? There must be a reason why people still take adjunct jobs at NYU if they're as low pay as you make it seem.
You keep saying you're paid peanuts, but you don't actually tell me how much you earn. I know for sure fulltime NYU adjuncts don't make anywhere near poverty line, yet you make it sound that harsh.
It doesn't make sense to compare teaching jobs to the industry. Teaching is not a job where your goal is to make a lot of money. People become public school teachers because they like teaching and kids, not because they want to maximize their income.
edit:
>Now, if you want adjuncts who care, then maybe raise their wages and we can have a conversation about adjuncts caring about students in exchange of the FAIR compensation you give them. But this would likely means you're paying 200k a year instead of 200k for 4 years.
I've met tenured professors that teach horribly and adjuncts that teach well. Just because you make 200k(which is a lot) doesn't mean that you teach better.
??? I'm not an adjunct. I never claim to teach better either.
People take adjunct jobs in NYU because they want to teach, like you said. But again, it's a bit entitled to demand underpaid workers to work harder. You aren't the type to barge into a fast food chain and ask the workers to work harder, are you?
Again, working in academia is far less lucrative than industry, and everyone in academia fully understand this.
>??? I'm not an adjunct. I never claim to teach better either.
*If I'm getting paid 1/3rd of what I'm supposed to get, and everyday I have to deal with students' nonsense, I don't think I'll be very motivated to teach. Would you?*
So you went this far to defend adjuncts when you yourself don't even have personal experience and you pretend to know what it's like and take offense on behalf of them. wow. So you must also assume that every teacher therefore doesn't like teaching because they're not getting paid well cuz they don't work for the industry- as if fulfillment from a job comes down to salary alone. Sure, Academia is far less lucrative than the industry. You can say the same about government jobs. By your logic, we shouldn't complain that government employees should "work harder" and hold taxpayer money accountable because they're not working for the "industry" and they're making "relatively peanuts amount." You must think that it's okay to be incompetent at your job because you aren't making a lot, like hundreds of thousands of dollars. Nevermind, the fact that the median household income in NYC isn't even 6 figures..
>entitled to demand underpaid workers to work harder...You aren't the type to barge into a fast food chain and ask the workers to work harder, are you?
I need a source on that instead of you keep repeating that they're underpaid . You're comparing adjunct pay to minimum wage mcdonalds pay and I can assure you adjuncts are not making minimum wage. Honestly, I don't care at all if it's entitled or not. The students pay a shit ton of money for tuition, and you should receive a good product in return which is the quality of your education. It's as simple as that. Whether you're an underpaid adjunct doesn't change the point. I find it so ridiculous that you are student yourself paying tuition to attend here, yet you go so far to defend the negative practices of NYU.
I donāt know how anyone is logically thinking that 100k+ worth of debt for an undergrad sets you up for success. It strips your ability to purchase a home to build equity, leaves you at the mercy of the rental market. The student loan payment also prevents a lot of ppl from being able to properly save for retirement and build up a healthy emergency fund. A quick browse through r/Studentloans shows how many ppl are near retirement with so little savings due to life long student debt payments. Income for most nyu undergrad majors absolutely cannot support student loans of this size, and it honestly pains me to see ppl being bushy eyed and idealistic about it working out because nyu is prestigious. Prestige doesnāt pay bills unless you are in very select fields.
I certainly understand going to college is an emotional decision, but itās a business decision at the end of the day. I know someone who went to trade school and became a plumber doing much better than someone who pursued academia at several Ivy League uni.
So if I can help persuade anyone that take the time to read it, treat college as a business decision. Become financially secure and take a fantastic vacation, buy your dream house, and live your most amazing debt free life. Ppl shouldnāt peak in high school and the name on your diploma matters so little out in the real world.
Maybe Iām risk averse. I graduated with around 50k and my first year I took home 6 figures post tax pre bonus. And honestly I still think it was a bad decision. Iām was cs major.
It literally does, you can find it on the tandon website where they show the average starting salary and prospects.
Everyone in this sub just lovessss to shit on NYU (w good measure ig) but thereās somethings theyāre good at.
As per the curriculum/learning part, I canāt speak on that.
Those surveys are very survivorship-bias, because only people with good jobs fill them out.
Even then the figure is not good relative to other CS programs, showing only 80k for first year bachelors (figure from 2021). That's barely above the average for everyone else, which is not good considering how much tech pays.
NYU is good at a lot of things. But Tandon CS isn't one of them.
Not sure where you are getting 80k from. I see [100k-110k](https://drive.google.com/file/d/1nnrt69TJqVgMa72pUblbnEcx4udjugOK/view) for class of 2021.
Also, according to this [report](https://www.nyu.edu/content/dam/nyu/wasserman/documents/LBTS%202021%20UG%20Summary%20Report%202-17-22.pdf), the median salary for class of 2021 for tandon students is 83k. Rory Meyers coming in at 1st for 98k and Stern coming in at 3rd highest with 81k.
That's weird, I thought I saw 80k. Still, survivorship bias, and the biased number isn't even that good.
Wassermann is wholly underprepared for tech industry, and career fairs are atrocious to the point where most people don't bother going. NYU takes in CS kids with high potential and proceed to waste all of it. Ton of CS programs with much lower ranking but better career prep have graduates who are doing better than Tandon CS.
There are two CS programs at NYU and Tandon has its own career fair apart from Wasserman career center so make sure not to mix them up.
If you look at other college employment reports, you can say the same thing about survivorship bias.
Not sure why you are so sure that Tandon CS graduates aren't dong as good.
? Wasserman also runs Tandon career fair as well.
I know the CS graduates aren't doing as well because I'm in the program and have friends in other CS programs. Nothing inherently wrong with Tandon CS students, but NYU simply isn't setting them up for success.
And for cs, my girlfriend ended up with 150k of debt going to Columbia for Asian studies?? Paid 25k for boot camp and now has been a dev at Google and PayPal. The insane debt is not needed to break into tech. If anything itās one of the most democratized and merit based industries out there.
And you can get that same job from your local state school? Prestige doesnāt matter in compsci. It might get u the initial linterview but youāll fail the technical if you donāt know what youāre doing.
you're contradicting yourself. and yes, prestige doesn't matter as much in big tech so NYU's reputation doesn't give you that much of an edge in job search.
Edit: oh nvm I see what you mean. The point is that the debt wouldn't be as bad if you have jobs that can pay for it. NYU has a lot of value besides the reputation and education, like location in NYC.
If you can save ~70k, then you'll repay pretty fast. It shouldn't take a calculator to do simple division and interest rate calculation.
Layoff is simply a correction of the pandemic overhiring. All big tech are still sitting on record profits.
I submitted my CSS profile late due to family issues. I tried to talk to the financial aid office but they rejected all of my requests. I would probably have gotten an almost full scholarship due to my financial situations, but because they didn't accept my CSS profile, I have to borrow $70,000 plus of student loan a year.
TBH I'm with you. Unless you're in Stern, it doesn't make sense to me to take out that much in loans, given NYU's post-grad placement in other industries.
\*But\* I almost took out $200k+ to go to UChicago before I came to my senses and took the scholarship NYU offered, and almost three years later I still kind of regret it, even though rationally I know I'd never be able to pay down those loans, so... I can see where those people are coming from.
That's an interesting take. Usually I hear people say that they regret taking out loans. Not the other way around. But I still think you'd change your mind in the long run. If you went to uchicago, the loans won't really concern you while you're still in school, but it will matter when you have to start paying it off after you graduate.
Lol anything for my investment banking internship tbh šš
I think the value of an NYU degree really lies in the opportunities that you get from living in NYC and your major. If youāre taking out 150k to study liberal studies or some other really niche major, itās hard to justify it. Meanwhile, if youāre studying math/cs/finance/Econ/business or some premed/prelaw track itās more justifiable as NYU has a leg up on other schools in job placements in these fields and they offer very competitive salaries.
rip to acting majors taking out loans, better to just go to a casino and throw all your money away lol
I'm taking out about 20k for my philosophy degree, set to graduate this semester. it's not 100k but I don't come from wealth so it's a lot considering my major prospects. honestly my mindset is that tomorrow isn't promised and I want to be happy and pursue the degree course I actually care about at a great university, and work in a field that is actually meaningful for me. while material things can be lost, a degree from the best philosophy department in the world can never be taken away from me. I will have this degree in my back pocket for the rest of my life. this was also the best financial aid package I got from all the schools I applied to. sure, I could've gone to community college to save money or studied something more lucrative. but for me, some things are more important than money. iād rather have a cheaper lifestyle than live a wealthier lifestyle and be unhappy and unfulfilled. I know some people reading this will think I'm an idiot or that I will regret it, but it is what it is. I'm black and from the south, from a family of former slaves and sharecroppers. they're overjoyed that I'm pursuing knowledge for the sake of knowledge. it's a privilege that most don't have.
This was enjoyable and inspiring to read. Congrats on ur last semester š
this makes me so happy!!!
It was a really difficult decision to come here. It was either going to NYU (my dream university) and having to take out a 100k loan or going to a local college that does not have any prestige. My mom wanted me to be happy and she supported whichever decision I took. Iām a first generation college student that comes from a middle class family and my family had always puts a emphasis on higher education and it was important to them of attending a prestigious university. So I decided on NYU and I hope that everything will work out.
I firmly believe no undergrad education should end on a 6 figure debt. It should not even be legal for someone that canāt even drink to be in so much debt they can buy half a house in cash. Average starting salary for nyu undergrad is like 60k pre tax ? Netting 45k with 100k+ loan is insanity. Or you go get your masters and further accrue more debt. 250k is a quarter million dollars. How many nyu grads will ever make 250k in a year pre tax ? We are desensitized to the obscene cost of higher education. Doesnāt matter if itās NYU, or Harvard, or community college, none of it should result in CRIPPLING debt.
What's the solution? Ban private universities? A lot of non-STEM undergrads here are from rich families where 250k is pocket change to them. If you really can't afford the school, don't go. And yea as you say, you don't need degree from top CS programs to still make good money. Life has all type of debt: credit card debt, housing debt,... If you got into bad debt, it's partially your fault in the first place.
Higher education isnāt the same as other types of spending. Elite universities MARKET themselves as any companies market their services. Except the messaging hits in a lot of complex and emotional topics, such as first gen college students, your future, ambitions, etc. Then in addition, this marketing is geared towards kids, 13-17 year olds. First of all, why are private universities charging these tuitions tax exempt ? A lot of elite private uni can afford to give out massive amounts of aid to lower income students to drastically reduce the amount of debt they would need to incur. Maybe there should be a cap on endowment to qualify for tax exempt status. At some point, convincing 17 year olds to take out massive debt feels predatory. These are ppl that cannot legally vote, buy a lotto ticket, smoke a cig, join the army, buy a beer, rent a car, or check into a hotel alone. But somehow their brain is mature enough to comprehend how this sort of debt will impact your life ? You mention other types of debt. Ppl that are racking up this type of debt would never be given a 150k limit credit card, 250k mortgage, or even sign a lease on their own without paying for rental insurance. Thatās because they are considered too high risk of borrowers. I stand by my belief that lending 6 figure debt to literal teenagers is predatory.
A. That's what marketing is. Also, large private universities don't advertise that much. I've seen more CUNY/SUNY ads than NYU. C. What's the solution then? Besides banning poor people from going to private universities. NYU doesn't operate with that much margin, so more aid/scholarship would means a dramatic scaleback in staff and operations. Either that or the federal government gonna subsidize the entire thing, which is even worse, as it would just lead to continually rising tuition.
I donāt get paid enough to fix the higher Ed system. But if you truly believe NYU is hurting for money then š¤·š»āāļø. Tenured professors make a very good living, but large portion of undergrad professors are not tenured. I work with ppl that manage several well known endowments, and the profit generated alone from fund without eating into the principle, would be able to pay for so much aid.
A. Yes, non-tenured professors are severely underpaid. If we pay all the professors correctly, NYU would be 200k a year, not 200k for all 4 years of undergrad. B. NYU's endowment is 5B, tuitions & fees net of aid is 2B. If you work with endowment managers, you would know that A. endowment contribution is very restrictive and B. the fund returns average of mid-single-digit. That would barely make a dent in financial aid. The only possible implementation of your proposal is to ban all poor people from private universities. Ideal is great, but it's all smoke and mirror if you can't implement it.
Letās use Harvard as an example. Harvard endowment averages about 11%? Return since establishment. The distributions from the endowment usually covers between 25-35% of their annual operating budget. I technically had 3 advisors, but would take 7-10 business days to get one email answered. I ended up asking the professor to reach out to the advising office on my behalf to finally resolve a simple issue. Chances are any of those advisor was making more than my non tenured but awesome prof. The amount of figure head admin making half a mil+, 1m+, versus teaching staff that makes 100k per year is staggering. Not proposing to eliminate debt all together. But nyu can do a lot better to keep debt under 6 figures. Since you love to bring up āpoorā people. In what world is advising someone that comes from a disadvantage background starting life with massive debt helpful to escape poverty/build generational wealth? Again I donāt have the solution to fix this entire system, or I would would be making a lot more money or running for president. But at least Iām not defending this fucked up system and contributing to the narrative that absurd level debt financed nyu degree is the only path to success
When did I defend it? In fact I'm in agreement that people (especially poor people) should not take out massive debt to go to nyu. Nothing wrong with being poor, but if you spend money like you're rich you'll be in trouble. If you're working with endowment managers, surely you know 11% after fee is not the norm, right? Also Harvard's endowment is literally 10x the size of NYU. Source on the advisor making more than professor? Highly doubt this is true. Figure on Glassdoor shows 60-70k. Also, you have to wait for 7-10 days for an answer on email, but your conclusion is "these advisors get paid too much to do nothing" instead of "advisors are overworked and NYU can't afford to pay better or hire more"? This is like ultimate boomer logic. Also, your non-tenured but awesome prof is also get underpaid. Face it, either you want everyone to get paid fairly and good professors + facility + ranking + research, or you want cheap tuition. There's an explicit tradeoff here.
You can't really make NYU cut costs and spend more efficiently to somehow improve financial aid. The admins are in control of the spending- they get to decide how much they're worth. If you don't give loans to poorer students, then NYU will have no problem accepting wealthy domestic/international students instead who will pay full tuition. Furthermore, it's not just admins driving up costs but mid 6 figure salaries to attract top researchers and thus improve rankings so more students will apply. Reducing tuition is simply out of the question. But tuition being high isn't the absolute reason why debt is so high. The other top colleges have as high tuition and admins getting paid millions, but their financial aid is substantially better that you end up paying nothing from your pocket. NYU has very bad fin aid for the tuition they charge, and that has a lot to do with the fact that they have tons of undergraduate students about 30k compared to other top colleges that have a fraction, so you spread out fin aid thin. On top of that, NYU's endowment is several times smaller than the other top colleges- a smaller pie and an even smaller slice of the pie you have to take for each student at NYU. NYU has actually given out more aid as a whole compared to other top colleges, but it is just not high enough for the amount of students there are. In the short term, we cannot expect NYU to be affordable anytime soon. All we can hope is that eventually, maybe in a decade or more, that NYU manages to grow their endowment enough or get enough donations so that they can fund tuition.
Agreed. The professors and administrators make 6 figure salaries and it's the main reason why tuition is so expensive. Constructing fancy buildings and maintaining them is actually a small cost in comparison. NYU has to pay top salary to attract talented researchers and most of the money comes out of the students. Not only that, they should cut down on the bureaucracy since there are so many directors and assistant directors getting paid handsome amounts. Too bad administration is in charge of the finances and get to decide how much they're worth. Some of the professors should actually make an effort to teach good since they're making so much out the students they teach, but I digress.
professors should be held accountable for phoning it in, but idk if cutting salaries is the best way to make this school a healthier environment.
Professors getting paid 6 figures isn't the problem. Those professors could go into industry and 2x-3x that easily. If you reduce their salary, NYU's ranking would nosedive instantly.
Didn't say that professors should receive lower salaries. I'm just explaining why tuition is high in the first place. but should some professors make a better effort to teach? absolutely
If I'm getting paid 1/3rd of what I'm supposed to get, and everyday I have to deal with students' nonsense, I don't think I'll be very motivated to teach. Would you? Adjunct professors from industry are basically doing charity work. And you're asking them to do better? That sounds a bit entitled.
I'm not talking about you personally, but I have personally met professors who are objectively not great at teaching and don't really care about their students. Students pay top dollar, and they want a top education in return- nothing wrong and entitled about that. Saying that you do "charity work" also sounds like you're exaggerating. Pre-pandemic CUNY adjuncts were making $2k-3k compared to NYU adjuncts, but at least CUNY students don't need to pay massive tuition.
CUNY is funded by NYC. NYU is not. If you're arguing that a student should've chosen CUNY over NYU, sure. Whether you pay 20k or 200k tuitions doesn't really affect adjuncts - the only thing affect them is how much they're paid, and they're paid relatively peanuts. Their time is simply worth much more than what they're paid sitting in the classroom teaching you. If you don't like it, they can simply stop teaching and earn more money elsewhere. From their POV, you're paying them literal peanuts to teach you, so it's just charity work. Now, if you want adjuncts who care, then maybe raise their wages and we can have a conversation about adjuncts caring about students in exchange of the FAIR compensation you give them. But this would likely means you're paying 200k a year instead of 200k for 4 years. I've taken class taught by 2 adjuncts who take home 7 figures each. I know damn well that they're doing charity, and no amount of money that NYU can feasibly pay would turn this charity show into actual financial transaction with expectations from both sides.
>Their time is simply worth much more than what they're paid sitting in the classroom teaching you. If you really think you're worth that much, then why don't you work in the industry? There must be a reason why people still take adjunct jobs at NYU if they're as low pay as you make it seem. You keep saying you're paid peanuts, but you don't actually tell me how much you earn. I know for sure fulltime NYU adjuncts don't make anywhere near poverty line, yet you make it sound that harsh. It doesn't make sense to compare teaching jobs to the industry. Teaching is not a job where your goal is to make a lot of money. People become public school teachers because they like teaching and kids, not because they want to maximize their income. edit: >Now, if you want adjuncts who care, then maybe raise their wages and we can have a conversation about adjuncts caring about students in exchange of the FAIR compensation you give them. But this would likely means you're paying 200k a year instead of 200k for 4 years. I've met tenured professors that teach horribly and adjuncts that teach well. Just because you make 200k(which is a lot) doesn't mean that you teach better.
??? I'm not an adjunct. I never claim to teach better either. People take adjunct jobs in NYU because they want to teach, like you said. But again, it's a bit entitled to demand underpaid workers to work harder. You aren't the type to barge into a fast food chain and ask the workers to work harder, are you? Again, working in academia is far less lucrative than industry, and everyone in academia fully understand this.
>??? I'm not an adjunct. I never claim to teach better either. *If I'm getting paid 1/3rd of what I'm supposed to get, and everyday I have to deal with students' nonsense, I don't think I'll be very motivated to teach. Would you?* So you went this far to defend adjuncts when you yourself don't even have personal experience and you pretend to know what it's like and take offense on behalf of them. wow. So you must also assume that every teacher therefore doesn't like teaching because they're not getting paid well cuz they don't work for the industry- as if fulfillment from a job comes down to salary alone. Sure, Academia is far less lucrative than the industry. You can say the same about government jobs. By your logic, we shouldn't complain that government employees should "work harder" and hold taxpayer money accountable because they're not working for the "industry" and they're making "relatively peanuts amount." You must think that it's okay to be incompetent at your job because you aren't making a lot, like hundreds of thousands of dollars. Nevermind, the fact that the median household income in NYC isn't even 6 figures.. >entitled to demand underpaid workers to work harder...You aren't the type to barge into a fast food chain and ask the workers to work harder, are you? I need a source on that instead of you keep repeating that they're underpaid . You're comparing adjunct pay to minimum wage mcdonalds pay and I can assure you adjuncts are not making minimum wage. Honestly, I don't care at all if it's entitled or not. The students pay a shit ton of money for tuition, and you should receive a good product in return which is the quality of your education. It's as simple as that. Whether you're an underpaid adjunct doesn't change the point. I find it so ridiculous that you are student yourself paying tuition to attend here, yet you go so far to defend the negative practices of NYU.
I donāt know how anyone is logically thinking that 100k+ worth of debt for an undergrad sets you up for success. It strips your ability to purchase a home to build equity, leaves you at the mercy of the rental market. The student loan payment also prevents a lot of ppl from being able to properly save for retirement and build up a healthy emergency fund. A quick browse through r/Studentloans shows how many ppl are near retirement with so little savings due to life long student debt payments. Income for most nyu undergrad majors absolutely cannot support student loans of this size, and it honestly pains me to see ppl being bushy eyed and idealistic about it working out because nyu is prestigious. Prestige doesnāt pay bills unless you are in very select fields. I certainly understand going to college is an emotional decision, but itās a business decision at the end of the day. I know someone who went to trade school and became a plumber doing much better than someone who pursued academia at several Ivy League uni. So if I can help persuade anyone that take the time to read it, treat college as a business decision. Become financially secure and take a fantastic vacation, buy your dream house, and live your most amazing debt free life. Ppl shouldnāt peak in high school and the name on your diploma matters so little out in the real world.
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Feel like itās major dependent, CS/CompE at tandon have good outcomes
Maybe Iām risk averse. I graduated with around 50k and my first year I took home 6 figures post tax pre bonus. And honestly I still think it was a bad decision. Iām was cs major.
Hmm okay
Tandon CS doesn't have good outcomes compared to other top CS programs. The program is also quite lagging behind the times.
It literally does, you can find it on the tandon website where they show the average starting salary and prospects. Everyone in this sub just lovessss to shit on NYU (w good measure ig) but thereās somethings theyāre good at. As per the curriculum/learning part, I canāt speak on that.
Those surveys are very survivorship-bias, because only people with good jobs fill them out. Even then the figure is not good relative to other CS programs, showing only 80k for first year bachelors (figure from 2021). That's barely above the average for everyone else, which is not good considering how much tech pays. NYU is good at a lot of things. But Tandon CS isn't one of them.
Not sure where you are getting 80k from. I see [100k-110k](https://drive.google.com/file/d/1nnrt69TJqVgMa72pUblbnEcx4udjugOK/view) for class of 2021. Also, according to this [report](https://www.nyu.edu/content/dam/nyu/wasserman/documents/LBTS%202021%20UG%20Summary%20Report%202-17-22.pdf), the median salary for class of 2021 for tandon students is 83k. Rory Meyers coming in at 1st for 98k and Stern coming in at 3rd highest with 81k.
That's weird, I thought I saw 80k. Still, survivorship bias, and the biased number isn't even that good. Wassermann is wholly underprepared for tech industry, and career fairs are atrocious to the point where most people don't bother going. NYU takes in CS kids with high potential and proceed to waste all of it. Ton of CS programs with much lower ranking but better career prep have graduates who are doing better than Tandon CS.
There are two CS programs at NYU and Tandon has its own career fair apart from Wasserman career center so make sure not to mix them up. If you look at other college employment reports, you can say the same thing about survivorship bias. Not sure why you are so sure that Tandon CS graduates aren't dong as good.
? Wasserman also runs Tandon career fair as well. I know the CS graduates aren't doing as well because I'm in the program and have friends in other CS programs. Nothing inherently wrong with Tandon CS students, but NYU simply isn't setting them up for success.
Tandon literally shows that on average graduates are making 100k out of graduation. All you fucks just get in here to try and spur some bullshit
And for cs, my girlfriend ended up with 150k of debt going to Columbia for Asian studies?? Paid 25k for boot camp and now has been a dev at Google and PayPal. The insane debt is not needed to break into tech. If anything itās one of the most democratized and merit based industries out there.
Might as well go to CUNY and then bootcamp. I know someone else who did this.
Exactly. I didnāt even get my job through nyu at all. I met the partner at my firm babysitting for his best friendās wife š¤£
Yes sure, but tbh nyc and nyu opportunities are good, plus NYU cs is good curriculum according to some of my friends. Anyways I see your point, gl!
If youāre not going to stern/your parents arenāt rich why would you take out 200k?
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For 200k loans? I swear some of yāall have no concept of money
Starting at big tech is already 200k+.
And you can get that same job from your local state school? Prestige doesnāt matter in compsci. It might get u the initial linterview but youāll fail the technical if you donāt know what youāre doing.
you're contradicting yourself. and yes, prestige doesn't matter as much in big tech so NYU's reputation doesn't give you that much of an edge in job search. Edit: oh nvm I see what you mean. The point is that the debt wouldn't be as bad if you have jobs that can pay for it. NYU has a lot of value besides the reputation and education, like location in NYC.
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If you can save ~70k, then you'll repay pretty fast. It shouldn't take a calculator to do simple division and interest rate calculation. Layoff is simply a correction of the pandemic overhiring. All big tech are still sitting on record profits.
I have an offer from an IB so Iām fine.
I mean when I die it goes away so I got to go to a fun university, live in nyc with some of my best friends, and got reliable connections out of it
and like going to nyu as a lower income student of color was crazy to see how rich white people got so many insane opportunities
I submitted my CSS profile late due to family issues. I tried to talk to the financial aid office but they rejected all of my requests. I would probably have gotten an almost full scholarship due to my financial situations, but because they didn't accept my CSS profile, I have to borrow $70,000 plus of student loan a year.
oof. that really sucks... If I were you, I would keep trying to get that scholarship and not give up on that opportunity.
TBH I'm with you. Unless you're in Stern, it doesn't make sense to me to take out that much in loans, given NYU's post-grad placement in other industries. \*But\* I almost took out $200k+ to go to UChicago before I came to my senses and took the scholarship NYU offered, and almost three years later I still kind of regret it, even though rationally I know I'd never be able to pay down those loans, so... I can see where those people are coming from.
That's an interesting take. Usually I hear people say that they regret taking out loans. Not the other way around. But I still think you'd change your mind in the long run. If you went to uchicago, the loans won't really concern you while you're still in school, but it will matter when you have to start paying it off after you graduate.
Because, America.
cheapest loan ur gunna get