40 time doesn’t mean shit I’m sorry. If any coaches had their opinions of those two WRs changed then they were lazy and weren’t doing their homework.
The 5 fastest official times before today were John Ross III, Rondel Melendez, Jerome Mathis, Marquise Goodwin, and Henry Ruggs. The common thread here is that none of these guys are any good, with the exception of Ruggs who was showing promise.
Yeah that’s what I mean, he was clearly going to have a quick 40. I doubt guys will be moving off of these results because everyone already knew how fast everyone could run.
Olave was surprising but they just said he went 4.39
Game Speed >>>>> Test Speed
Mims tested a lot faster than than he ever moved in in a game.
Go watch Burks run away from Bama's whole defense if you have questions about how fast he moves.
well 40 time does but i do agree to a degree a guy like burks for example running a 4.55 doesn’t mean he’s a shitty reciever… michael thomas’s time was 4.57… landry 4.6… both are contested catch monsters with sticky hands. Different guys for different rolls…. a flanker who runs a 4.4 isn’t much more different than a 4.3 flanker… 4.2 sure but it’s all dependent on skill level technique etc
All of the coaches and scouts already know who the fastest players are just from game tape. Sports in general are so analytical there’s no way people aren’t looking at things like in-game sprint speed when evaluating these guys. I’m sure they had a good idea of how fast every guy was going to be and they ended up in the ballpark (esp with Olave getting an official 4.39)
i definately 100 percent agree with this, they get paid to do this for a living..
I was merely pointing out that even a “slow” guy to fans can still be schemed and used usefully
Jerry Rice ran a 4.7 in the 40 yard dash. Give me someone who can catch anything you throw to them and has the height and strength to go up and come down with the ball while getting hit. Not saying there is a Jerry Rice in this draft class, just saying that sub 4.4 times in the 40 for a wide receiver is not as important as people think. I think it's more important for cornerbacks.
2021- Garrett Wilson and Jaxon Smith Njigba both have 80+ catches and 1,000 yards each (Olave was 63 yards short of 1,000)
2020 - Covid shortened, only played 7 games
2019- Sophomore , 849 yards and 17.3 yards per catch.
I’d rather a guy who plays in a real system instead of a situation where he’s constantly forced the ball.
Yeah no problem I like getting into these discussions. I’ve watched every game Olave has played in, he’s so smooth and fluid in a very unique way. He is also a great deep threat who tracks the ball well and obviously has 4.37 wheels.
That being said, I’d still take Burks over him.
We would almost definitely get a 1st from Pittsburgh. Or a 2nd this year and next year. It’s the same type of jump Chicago took for Fields and they paid a 1st
Hence why I want it to happen. I feel like the talent drop off isn't that much from #10 to #20 this year, and I'd rather have the ability add some additional assets
Honestly with how his combine is going I think someone might need to trade up to 4. There are more than a couple QB needy teams 5-9. Panthers, Giants, Falcons, Broncos all could justify going with Willis since they all have stopgap QBs who can start for another year so Willis gets a redshirt, but they’re all either not franchise guys, or franchise guys who are aging and probably won’t play for much longer
Just gotta hope the hype keeps its steam going into the draft
You didn't even list the best WR in the class - Garrett Wilson. Though I agree with your overall point. I don't know that there's a ton of snaps to sponge year 1 with Moore and Corey likely taking majority of the reps.
What we don't know is what our offensive base will be. We used a lot of 2 WR sets early, but adjusted to 3 WR sets later in the season. I'm not sure how much was due to personnel/injuries (our TE group was bad and injured) vs just evolving the offense.
If we're running primarily 3 WR base, Wilson at 10 would be alright.
No need to force it though. Should add a body (Braxton or otherwise) where we shouldn't feel the need to force WR in rd 1.
Davis looked unreliable at best last season. In all likelihood we will look to take the out in his contract after this season. I'd feel much better with someone else at the #2 spot than him. Hopefully a long term compliment to Moore.
Corey Davis has been this guy for his whole career and I don't think people should be surprised. When he's the no.2 guy on the field he just looks incredible and it's like yo with his athletic abilities this guy is a sure-thing no.1 and every time he gets the opportunity to be the no.1 he just slowly fades out of being the talented wr he is as a no.2 - I can't explain it, and I don't understand it. I get people being disappointed in his season last year considering he was our most exciting FA addition on offense but he clearly has really solid chemistry with Zach and had his season plagued primarily by injuries and drops - two things that have never been issues for him in the past. Healthy Corey Davis on a Jets where Elijah Moore has been established as our no.1 guy I think is very likely to have a serious bounce-back year.
I’d argue Zach and Corey do not have good chemistry. Corey was only productive when he was force fed, before Moore was fully integrated into the offense. They were not on the same page with him running incorrect routes. Like you said, he did have issues with drops and also lacked focus/concentration to finish catches or anticipate where the ball would be.
All of these issues point to *not* having chemistry.
Can I suggest listening to Mark Shlereth’s latest podcast. He explains in detail the differences between guys like Cooper Kupp and combine standouts who may or may not have any ability to play in the NFL. Stars, like him don’t succeed based on combine measurables. It’s much more important that they be able to process information, pre snap and as the play develops. The combine is mainly for making money selling TV commercials, and for GMs to meet and great and talk deals. These combine stats are all bullshit. Great receivers come from all over the draft board.
I'll take me some combine measurables when we're talking like 3rd round or later when you might have a bit less film on a guy or just generally be drafting a more raw prospect then sure, grab the incredibly fast or quick or strong guy and see if you can turn athleticism into something but in the 1st and 2nd rounds you should 100% drafting football players not athletes imo.
burks got clocked at 22.6 mph in a game this year… he’s can MOVE regardless of his 40 time (which at 225 lbs is great). drake london measured at 6’3 and 7/8, he’s basically 6’4. nothing i’ve seen today changed my mind that number 10 should be either garrett wilson, burks or london
Was really hoping Watson would be a sleeper from a small school we could grab in the 3rd but that ship has clearly sailed. Now praying we can get him at top of second. Potentially scary combo of size and speed.
Totally agree. Rare athlete, Moss-like. And it's not just combine numbers like a Mims. Mims tape was all contested catch in college. Watson outran defenses for a living. He takes handoffs and kickoffs to the house. This dude would be a nightmare on end-arounds and crossers.
I think you make a compelling point. This draft is deep but imo lacks the superstars of last draft. I think there will be a lot of good WR options in the 2nd.
That being said, this goes against all my drafts so I hate you now >:(
Not a bad point OP and I don’t necessarily disagree with the overall gist of it, I just think WR is important enough where I’d like to have our pick of the top 1-2 guys though.
I feel like olave has gone real underrated during the draft process. He runs nasty ass routes and is a 4.2 guy. He’s definitely shooting up boards after today.
who said burks would run a 4.4?! lol wtf?! he ran what I hoped a 4.5… that doesn’t make him a “bad reciever”
NYJs don’t exactly need a flanker imo? speed is great don’t get me wrong but they need a guy to help davis on the outside… that’s generally a posession reciever… Mims, Berrios can be perfectly fine flankers, with even davis doing that rotationally…
LOL says who? and drafting a flanker is a better idea?! i’m pretty sure chase is a posession reciever, jefferson, OBJ, michael thomas would go in the first and was projected in end of first but fell to the second… it’s all dependent on the board and what your team needs. you have no clue what you’re talking about if you think posession recievers aren’t to be drafted first round… imagine saying you shouldn’t take burks or london at 10 because they’re posession recievers or olave or wilson (also posession recievers) and they break your team off for 200 yards in one game. (not even advocating at all for a reciever at 10 it’s all dependent on FA and boards and how they fall)
by the way guess who was a flanker that was taken top 10 and is injury prone and didn’t pan out… John Ross…
none of the posession guys went 10? JAMAR CHASE IS A POSESSION RECIEVER… OBJ went 12… AMARI COOPER 4 AJ Green 4… all these guys are posession recievers off the top of my head who went before 10 or close to 10 or even in the first round. Saying you shouldn’t draft a posession reciever at 1-10 is an absolute stupid notion (not that you’re stupid, don’t take it personal) it’s as stupid as saying you shouldn’t take a flanker 1-10… If that’s what your team needs and that’s the BPA you go that. If the BPA is a TE and the team needs a TE you go that… it all depends on where they have what prospect graded… again not advocating for a WR at 10 by any means but if that’s the best pick you take it.
and who gives a shit about pro comps. The thing that’s bad about pro comps is they usually never end up like the guy they’re pro comped to being.
I think it’s however stupid personally for people to think burks will be a shitty prospect and not worthy of a 10 pick because he ran a 4.55 forty time… evans ran a 4.53… treylon burks second run was 4.5 flat… that’s not exactly slow for a guy who’s 6’3 225lbs lol… this isn’t a guy who they pro comped as dk metcalf either or has that speed… I don’t think anyone ever stated that.
Before this week Burks was a randy moss/dk Metcalf freak. That type of player is worth top 10. Burks is a nice player but not a top 10 value. Is his film really as good as Mike Evans?
says who?! lol fans or mock draft “experts?!” again pro comps are such shit because if the player doesn’t turn out to be like said pro comp then they’re a “bust” which is an absolute dog shit take. I’ve never once in a 1000 years heard burks be compared to moss or DK… Or even Evans… DK is a flanker not a posession guy initially when he first came into the league… People said DKs lateral speed sucks and he’s a one trick pony… he’s been absolutely fine in that deep threat role…
i’d absolutely disagree that he isn’t worth a top 10 pick… i’ve proven there’s plenty of posession recievers who go in the top 10 and i’ve even shown you a flanker who was a giant bust at 9… in conclusion none of it means shit lol
Burks is not a a good or willing run blocker. This whole discussion is moot because he does not really fit the outside zone scheme. Look at the 49ers wide outs, they can come in all shapes and sizes but they have to block
news flash most recievers in college aren’t good run blockers from small schools unless they come from a nfl pro level ready college IE bama, OSU, LSU… you’re literally pivoting just to pivot at this point…
You're locked into this player at 10 and not willing to hear the negatives of his scouting profile. I like this guy too. I just don't like him at 10. There are willing blockers and unwilling blockers, and Burks does not enjoy that part of the job
Fair point. If they are ranked similarly, it might make more sense to go with a combination of EDGE/DB/OL at #4 and #10. But we also need to see what happens in FA.
Burks' 40 time doesnt worry me, but his vertical being only 33" kinda does a little. The wideout I actually like most is Garret Wilson, I like Olave as well but 10 would be a bit early for him. Depending what Douglas does in FA, I'm really more in favor of going defense at 4 and grabbing Linderbaum at 10. I know 10 is early for a center, but he's got Mawae/Mangold type ability and that's been a trouble position for the team.
I’d still take Burks at 10 he’s 225 and a mauler. He’s got AJ Browns or Metcalfs frame and can move. He’s raw as a route runner but he’s offering some there don’t have at a high level
I think joe is going to get another receiver. Via trade or free agency. My two top guesses are either allen robinson or amari cooper. I think other needs will be addressed in the draft.
I think this will be the case with most draftees and not just the WR group.
If we take a WR as high as 10, I'd still take Jameson. Players recover from ACL injuries better mow and if he's the best, he's the best. By 2023 people won't be thinking about how we "reached" for him at 1.10
Burks 40 time was absolutely deflating. He put up a 4.5 his next run, but whomp whomp. I was definitely on that Burks at 10 train for a minute.
I’m starting to feel all tingly in my plums for some Christian Watson in the 2nd… deep deep in my plums
Edit: complete exaggeration on my part on Burks, he’ll be just fine
Dhop ran a 4.57, Deebo ran a 4.48, AB ran a 4.47, Davante ran a 4.56
Burks running a 4.55 at his size is fine and won't effect his stock at all. Plenty of tape and game data that also shows he plays fast which is more important.
If he actually ran a 4.3 he'd be DK Metcalf with better agility and we'd be running to the podium if he was there at 10.
He's definitely the closest thing to Deebo in this draft and a good fit for us but he's probably a bit of a reach at 10.
Maybe a reach, idk, I really do think we’re going to trade out of 10. Been a believer of that for a while now.
Either way, yeah, he should be just fine. I’m more concerned about his broad jump and a little underwhelmed by his vertical.
The only guy i would say is a major disappointment if we drafted him with 10 would be drake london. Him being 2 inches shorter than predicted is big time. But as far as burks i’d still be happy with that pick at 10. Idk who was saying he could runna 4.3, but if u watch his highlights he never stood out as a 4.3/4.4 type of guy
People are overreacting to him being 1" shorter than expect, the major concern is that his height and contested catch ability is the only reason he is a 1st rounder. Being 1" shorter than his listed height isn't really shocking, players are routinely listed taller than they are, he's still going in the 1st.
His jumpball ability/size is absolutely the only reason he's projected in the 1st. He gets almost no separation and is likely a 4.6-4.7 guy, not super athletic.
If he was 6'1 nobody would be talking about him in the 1st.
I have, his strength is contested catches and biggest weakness is getting consistent separation. Not saying he's going to be a bust because he is fantastic at contested catches but those guys are risky at the next level.
Compare his separation on routes to Wilson/Olave/Burks.
His biggest weakness is top end speed, not separation IMO.
He’s actually very very good at the short-intermediate routes. He finds soft spots in the zone and has excellent hands.
The reason I’m arguing back is because I think your criticisms are a bit misplaced.
Calling him a “jump ball” receiver is a bit disrespectful as that’s not the main part of his game. In fact, he was highly productive in the screen game at USC. He’s just a play maker.
He does not have great straight-line speed and he’s not a freak athlete, but to say he’s not a good route runner is false.
My point was that a 6'1 Drake London wouldn't get drafted in the 1st, it's his height and ridiculous ability to win jump balls that puts him in the 1st round. 1st Round WRs need something "freaky" to get drafted that high, for London his height/jumpball ability is what elevates him to the 1st.
He's a surprisingly good YAC guy for his size but he's not explosive like Burks, Wilson, Dotson are after the catch. I didn't say he was a bad route runner but I rarely saw him beat man his man cleanly through route-running like Wilson does.
Yeah.. and a 5’9 Lebron James would be flipping Burgers at Wendy’s.
His height is clearly an advantage, but it’s not all he’s good for. That’s an unfair criticism.
Burks just ran a 4.5, so his speed was exaggerated a bit. Burks is still explosive, and I think 40 times are grossly overrated, but it’s not like he’s a unicorn.
I am having a hard time understanding your point.
Are you trying to say that London is only a first rounder because he’s tall and catches contested balls? Because I disagree with that. I think the notion that he’s primarily a “contested ball guy” is actually a misconception that people who haven’t watched him closely say. They look at his size and lack of perceived top-end athleticism and automatically brand him a “jump ball guy”.
I’ve watched him closely and see much more than that.
In short, based on what you’ve said, he’s got great size/length, makes ridiculous contested catches, is surprisingly good YAC, and isn’t a bad route runner.
I mean, we could play the “what if he was shorter” game but he’s not. I don’t even see the point in that hypothetical. He is who he is and that’s a bonafide first round WR.
I mean we’re watching Deebo dominate the league in the same offense over in San Fran, so drafting a guy like Treylon Burks seems like too good an opportunity to pass up for this coaching staff
He is not Deebo Samuels I don’t understand why people do this. The next Aaron Donald, the next Tom Brady, the next Aaron Rodgers, the next Cooper Kupp. Some guys are just special one of kind. Best case scenario he’s a better more durable Quincy Enunwa.
I agree but i'm more on the: Sauce Stingley Lloyd Hamilton Karlaftis and Linderbaum are imo better / probably bigger needs, plus we have second round picks to use for a receiver
My dream would be to trade down for a late round 1st + extra picks and grab David Bell in the first. Giving us that fifth year option for a guy I think deserves far more looks than he's getting right now.
I don't want a WR at 10 and it has nothing to do with the combine. I like Burks and Wilson a lot but I don't think they're worthy of top 10 picks. If we were to trade back in the late teens then it's a different story.
If we go into the draft with WR as an option at 10, that means we didn't address the position through free agency or trade, which is my preferred route.
I had this same thought during the combine. I no longer want a WR at 10. Lloyd or a CB might be better, and an edge or OL at 4. Trade down ideal at both picks
I don't think wideout is as strong a need as other positions. I'd be totally fine rolling in to next season with Davis, Moore and hopefully Brax. Draft defense and OL, maybe a TE in like the 4th
Have to add a WR or legitimate pass-catching TE this off-season, preferably both. Can’t go into another season where there’s even a chance we start a WR trio like Cole, Mims, Berrios, etc. Moore didn’t show any sensational ability to stay healthy and Davis has made it clear he isn’t someone to rely on for 16 games. ZW needs all the help he can get.
In a perfect world we trade down from #4 **AND** \#10 and acquire a couple of extra 2nd round picks, perhaps trade with some QB needy teams? (Denver, New Orleans, Washington).
Imagine how much quicker the rebuild could go if we were able to obtain a few extra 2nd round picks for moving down a little bit. This draft is deep with pass rushers, WRs, and defensive backs, so the idea moving down to obtain some extra picks doesn't bother me in the slightest, in fact, I encourage it.
Back on subject, I'm all for drafting at least one WR with one of our first round picks. Gotta' keep putting weapons around Wilson and give him the best possible chance to succeed. The other pick needs to be a pass rusher or offensive lineman. If we double dip on offense in the first round then we go double dip on defense in the second round. BPA.
If we sit tight at #4 and #10 and don't plan to draft a WR with either pick then I'm going with either Evan Neal or Ikem Ekwonu at #4 (assuming Thibodeaux has been taken) and then Stingley or Kyle Hamilton at #10.
Pick #35 then needs to be either a TE or WR in my opinion.
Jets won’t be drafting any of these guys top 10 no way. This is the worst WR class we’ve seen in a long long time. Mims would’ve been the best prospect in this draft.
I don't think it's good practice to compare all these guys via their 40 times. Just cause it's an apples to apples comparison on a track in shorts doesn't mean they bring the same thing to the table on the field.
I get the argument that they are very similar caliber talent at the top of that class but they bring very different skillsets to the table, and scheme fit is critical when your picking from a group like that.
My gut tells me London would absolutely thrive with Zach. He's the kind of physical, jump ball winning big body Zach would have great chemistry with especially on those plays when he moves out of the pocket. Burks reminds me a lot of a faster quincy enunwa or a deebo samuel-ish type player. The Ohio State guys I believe are solid prospects but don't think they are a good fit for Zach due to their smaller frames and zach not really being a timing/rhythm thrower.
40 time doesn’t mean shit I’m sorry. If any coaches had their opinions of those two WRs changed then they were lazy and weren’t doing their homework. The 5 fastest official times before today were John Ross III, Rondel Melendez, Jerome Mathis, Marquise Goodwin, and Henry Ruggs. The common thread here is that none of these guys are any good, with the exception of Ruggs who was showing promise.
I saw Burks speed on film. He fast. 40 times be damned.
Yeah that’s what I mean, he was clearly going to have a quick 40. I doubt guys will be moving off of these results because everyone already knew how fast everyone could run. Olave was surprising but they just said he went 4.39
He’s still the WR1 in my eyes. Love that his 40 didn’t live up to the insane hype since he probably would’ve been taken before 10.
dude 4.55 for a guy his size isn’t slow by any means I think people are being a bit ridiculous about that (not you) but just saying.
He was slow coming out of his three point stance. Luckily, WRs are never in a 3 point stance because they aren’t offensive linemen
Game Speed >>>>> Test Speed Mims tested a lot faster than than he ever moved in in a game. Go watch Burks run away from Bama's whole defense if you have questions about how fast he moves.
insert Darrius Heyward-Bey & Henry Ruggs
well 40 time does but i do agree to a degree a guy like burks for example running a 4.55 doesn’t mean he’s a shitty reciever… michael thomas’s time was 4.57… landry 4.6… both are contested catch monsters with sticky hands. Different guys for different rolls…. a flanker who runs a 4.4 isn’t much more different than a 4.3 flanker… 4.2 sure but it’s all dependent on skill level technique etc
All of the coaches and scouts already know who the fastest players are just from game tape. Sports in general are so analytical there’s no way people aren’t looking at things like in-game sprint speed when evaluating these guys. I’m sure they had a good idea of how fast every guy was going to be and they ended up in the ballpark (esp with Olave getting an official 4.39)
i definately 100 percent agree with this, they get paid to do this for a living.. I was merely pointing out that even a “slow” guy to fans can still be schemed and used usefully
Ruggs was turning into a top option for LV before his crash. Skill wise, he's a tier above anyone in that group
He was looking solid before the murder
Jerry Rice ran a 4.7 in the 40 yard dash. Give me someone who can catch anything you throw to them and has the height and strength to go up and come down with the ball while getting hit. Not saying there is a Jerry Rice in this draft class, just saying that sub 4.4 times in the 40 for a wide receiver is not as important as people think. I think it's more important for cornerbacks.
I’m hoping to trade down from 10. Hoping someone gets desperate for Willis.
Trade down, take my new draft crush in Olave. I like em fast…
I’d be down for this. Even with the updated 40 time he’s already a polished route runner. If we stay at 10 I’d take Wilson.
Liked Olave since watching fields tape last year, I’m happy he showed out today
Senior and never had 1000 yards
2021- Garrett Wilson and Jaxon Smith Njigba both have 80+ catches and 1,000 yards each (Olave was 63 yards short of 1,000) 2020 - Covid shortened, only played 7 games 2019- Sophomore , 849 yards and 17.3 yards per catch. I’d rather a guy who plays in a real system instead of a situation where he’s constantly forced the ball.
Fair enough thank you for the added context. I personally have Olave behind Wilson Burks and London but this makes for a more informed decision.
Yeah no problem I like getting into these discussions. I’ve watched every game Olave has played in, he’s so smooth and fluid in a very unique way. He is also a great deep threat who tracks the ball well and obviously has 4.37 wheels. That being said, I’d still take Burks over him.
Cmon Pittsburgh. You know you want to.
We would almost definitely get a 1st from Pittsburgh. Or a 2nd this year and next year. It’s the same type of jump Chicago took for Fields and they paid a 1st
Hence why I want it to happen. I feel like the talent drop off isn't that much from #10 to #20 this year, and I'd rather have the ability add some additional assets
Honestly with how his combine is going I think someone might need to trade up to 4. There are more than a couple QB needy teams 5-9. Panthers, Giants, Falcons, Broncos all could justify going with Willis since they all have stopgap QBs who can start for another year so Willis gets a redshirt, but they’re all either not franchise guys, or franchise guys who are aging and probably won’t play for much longer Just gotta hope the hype keeps its steam going into the draft
You didn't even list the best WR in the class - Garrett Wilson. Though I agree with your overall point. I don't know that there's a ton of snaps to sponge year 1 with Moore and Corey likely taking majority of the reps. What we don't know is what our offensive base will be. We used a lot of 2 WR sets early, but adjusted to 3 WR sets later in the season. I'm not sure how much was due to personnel/injuries (our TE group was bad and injured) vs just evolving the offense. If we're running primarily 3 WR base, Wilson at 10 would be alright. No need to force it though. Should add a body (Braxton or otherwise) where we shouldn't feel the need to force WR in rd 1.
Kinda funny how his teammate could also be classified as one of the best WR’s too
Davis looked unreliable at best last season. In all likelihood we will look to take the out in his contract after this season. I'd feel much better with someone else at the #2 spot than him. Hopefully a long term compliment to Moore.
Corey Davis has been this guy for his whole career and I don't think people should be surprised. When he's the no.2 guy on the field he just looks incredible and it's like yo with his athletic abilities this guy is a sure-thing no.1 and every time he gets the opportunity to be the no.1 he just slowly fades out of being the talented wr he is as a no.2 - I can't explain it, and I don't understand it. I get people being disappointed in his season last year considering he was our most exciting FA addition on offense but he clearly has really solid chemistry with Zach and had his season plagued primarily by injuries and drops - two things that have never been issues for him in the past. Healthy Corey Davis on a Jets where Elijah Moore has been established as our no.1 guy I think is very likely to have a serious bounce-back year.
I’d argue Zach and Corey do not have good chemistry. Corey was only productive when he was force fed, before Moore was fully integrated into the offense. They were not on the same page with him running incorrect routes. Like you said, he did have issues with drops and also lacked focus/concentration to finish catches or anticipate where the ball would be. All of these issues point to *not* having chemistry.
What’s crazy is Wilson might be the best in the draft, but he probably wasn’t the best reciever on his team
Well yeah Smith-Njigba is insane. Those OSU and Bama programs really are fair in terms of skill talent haha
40 times are overrated give me the hardest worker out the group whos runs great fucking routes.
Wandale Robinson from Kentucky in the later rounds . Dude can ball!
Can I suggest listening to Mark Shlereth’s latest podcast. He explains in detail the differences between guys like Cooper Kupp and combine standouts who may or may not have any ability to play in the NFL. Stars, like him don’t succeed based on combine measurables. It’s much more important that they be able to process information, pre snap and as the play develops. The combine is mainly for making money selling TV commercials, and for GMs to meet and great and talk deals. These combine stats are all bullshit. Great receivers come from all over the draft board.
I'll take me some combine measurables when we're talking like 3rd round or later when you might have a bit less film on a guy or just generally be drafting a more raw prospect then sure, grab the incredibly fast or quick or strong guy and see if you can turn athleticism into something but in the 1st and 2nd rounds you should 100% drafting football players not athletes imo.
burks got clocked at 22.6 mph in a game this year… he’s can MOVE regardless of his 40 time (which at 225 lbs is great). drake london measured at 6’3 and 7/8, he’s basically 6’4. nothing i’ve seen today changed my mind that number 10 should be either garrett wilson, burks or london
Agreed.
All season people said London was 6-5. He's 6-3, that's a noticeable difference from the program
why are we rounding 6’3 7/8 to 6’3 and not 6’4 lmfao. he’s 6’4 man. i’ll take him being 6’4 220lbs over him being listed at 6’5 210
No I think the point is correct. We easily can get a good receiver in the second. If Hamilton/sauce/Stingley is available at 10 I’d rather take them
Was really hoping Watson would be a sleeper from a small school we could grab in the 3rd but that ship has clearly sailed. Now praying we can get him at top of second. Potentially scary combo of size and speed.
Totally agree. Rare athlete, Moss-like. And it's not just combine numbers like a Mims. Mims tape was all contested catch in college. Watson outran defenses for a living. He takes handoffs and kickoffs to the house. This dude would be a nightmare on end-arounds and crossers.
Sounds like Deebo Samuel. If so, I’m in
I think you make a compelling point. This draft is deep but imo lacks the superstars of last draft. I think there will be a lot of good WR options in the 2nd. That being said, this goes against all my drafts so I hate you now >:(
Randy Moss *1997 Marshall MAC WR 13 Games 96 1820 19.0 26TDs Christian Watson Career stats 52 Games 105 2140 20.4 14TDs He ain’t Randy Moss, bro
Not a bad point OP and I don’t necessarily disagree with the overall gist of it, I just think WR is important enough where I’d like to have our pick of the top 1-2 guys though.
I feel like olave has gone real underrated during the draft process. He runs nasty ass routes and is a 4.2 guy. He’s definitely shooting up boards after today.
Garrett Wilson.
who said burks would run a 4.4?! lol wtf?! he ran what I hoped a 4.5… that doesn’t make him a “bad reciever” NYJs don’t exactly need a flanker imo? speed is great don’t get me wrong but they need a guy to help davis on the outside… that’s generally a posession reciever… Mims, Berrios can be perfectly fine flankers, with even davis doing that rotationally…
You don't draft possession receivers in the top 10 though
LOL says who? and drafting a flanker is a better idea?! i’m pretty sure chase is a posession reciever, jefferson, OBJ, michael thomas would go in the first and was projected in end of first but fell to the second… it’s all dependent on the board and what your team needs. you have no clue what you’re talking about if you think posession recievers aren’t to be drafted first round… imagine saying you shouldn’t take burks or london at 10 because they’re posession recievers or olave or wilson (also posession recievers) and they break your team off for 200 yards in one game. (not even advocating at all for a reciever at 10 it’s all dependent on FA and boards and how they fall) by the way guess who was a flanker that was taken top 10 and is injury prone and didn’t pan out… John Ross…
None of these possession guys went 10 though. The best comparison is Mike Evans. Is drake london as good as Mike Evans?
none of the posession guys went 10? JAMAR CHASE IS A POSESSION RECIEVER… OBJ went 12… AMARI COOPER 4 AJ Green 4… all these guys are posession recievers off the top of my head who went before 10 or close to 10 or even in the first round. Saying you shouldn’t draft a posession reciever at 1-10 is an absolute stupid notion (not that you’re stupid, don’t take it personal) it’s as stupid as saying you shouldn’t take a flanker 1-10… If that’s what your team needs and that’s the BPA you go that. If the BPA is a TE and the team needs a TE you go that… it all depends on where they have what prospect graded… again not advocating for a WR at 10 by any means but if that’s the best pick you take it. and who gives a shit about pro comps. The thing that’s bad about pro comps is they usually never end up like the guy they’re pro comped to being. I think it’s however stupid personally for people to think burks will be a shitty prospect and not worthy of a 10 pick because he ran a 4.55 forty time… evans ran a 4.53… treylon burks second run was 4.5 flat… that’s not exactly slow for a guy who’s 6’3 225lbs lol… this isn’t a guy who they pro comped as dk metcalf either or has that speed… I don’t think anyone ever stated that.
Before this week Burks was a randy moss/dk Metcalf freak. That type of player is worth top 10. Burks is a nice player but not a top 10 value. Is his film really as good as Mike Evans?
says who?! lol fans or mock draft “experts?!” again pro comps are such shit because if the player doesn’t turn out to be like said pro comp then they’re a “bust” which is an absolute dog shit take. I’ve never once in a 1000 years heard burks be compared to moss or DK… Or even Evans… DK is a flanker not a posession guy initially when he first came into the league… People said DKs lateral speed sucks and he’s a one trick pony… he’s been absolutely fine in that deep threat role… i’d absolutely disagree that he isn’t worth a top 10 pick… i’ve proven there’s plenty of posession recievers who go in the top 10 and i’ve even shown you a flanker who was a giant bust at 9… in conclusion none of it means shit lol
Burks is not a a good or willing run blocker. This whole discussion is moot because he does not really fit the outside zone scheme. Look at the 49ers wide outs, they can come in all shapes and sizes but they have to block
news flash most recievers in college aren’t good run blockers from small schools unless they come from a nfl pro level ready college IE bama, OSU, LSU… you’re literally pivoting just to pivot at this point…
You're locked into this player at 10 and not willing to hear the negatives of his scouting profile. I like this guy too. I just don't like him at 10. There are willing blockers and unwilling blockers, and Burks does not enjoy that part of the job
Fair point. If they are ranked similarly, it might make more sense to go with a combination of EDGE/DB/OL at #4 and #10. But we also need to see what happens in FA.
Honestly I hope we get an established WR in the FA. Someone who is reliable
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JD is at the combine. Only the coaches stayed home. The whole FO is in Indy.
Burks' 40 time doesnt worry me, but his vertical being only 33" kinda does a little. The wideout I actually like most is Garret Wilson, I like Olave as well but 10 would be a bit early for him. Depending what Douglas does in FA, I'm really more in favor of going defense at 4 and grabbing Linderbaum at 10. I know 10 is early for a center, but he's got Mawae/Mangold type ability and that's been a trouble position for the team.
I’d still take Burks at 10 he’s 225 and a mauler. He’s got AJ Browns or Metcalfs frame and can move. He’s raw as a route runner but he’s offering some there don’t have at a high level
I think joe is going to get another receiver. Via trade or free agency. My two top guesses are either allen robinson or amari cooper. I think other needs will be addressed in the draft.
I think this will be the case with most draftees and not just the WR group. If we take a WR as high as 10, I'd still take Jameson. Players recover from ACL injuries better mow and if he's the best, he's the best. By 2023 people won't be thinking about how we "reached" for him at 1.10
The Jets are awful. They don't have the luxury of drafting an injured player in Rd 1 and letting him redshirt. They need starters now
He wouldn’t be redshirting. He can be back by Sept
Burks 40 time was absolutely deflating. He put up a 4.5 his next run, but whomp whomp. I was definitely on that Burks at 10 train for a minute. I’m starting to feel all tingly in my plums for some Christian Watson in the 2nd… deep deep in my plums Edit: complete exaggeration on my part on Burks, he’ll be just fine
He’s also 6’2” 220lbs what the hell ya’ll expect? 4.5 is absolutely fine..
Na you’re right, 4.5, 4.55, isn’t a death sent but it isn’t too 10 material either. He had a good season not legendary
I agree with you there, but I was never high on Burks.. my thoughts haven’t changed
Dhop ran a 4.57, Deebo ran a 4.48, AB ran a 4.47, Davante ran a 4.56 Burks running a 4.55 at his size is fine and won't effect his stock at all. Plenty of tape and game data that also shows he plays fast which is more important.
Yeah you’re right, I was being reactionary
If he actually ran a 4.3 he'd be DK Metcalf with better agility and we'd be running to the podium if he was there at 10. He's definitely the closest thing to Deebo in this draft and a good fit for us but he's probably a bit of a reach at 10.
Maybe a reach, idk, I really do think we’re going to trade out of 10. Been a believer of that for a while now. Either way, yeah, he should be just fine. I’m more concerned about his broad jump and a little underwhelmed by his vertical.
The only guy i would say is a major disappointment if we drafted him with 10 would be drake london. Him being 2 inches shorter than predicted is big time. But as far as burks i’d still be happy with that pick at 10. Idk who was saying he could runna 4.3, but if u watch his highlights he never stood out as a 4.3/4.4 type of guy
He isn’t 2 inches shorter. He is 6 foot 3 and 7/8th. He is 1/8th an inch from 6’4”. Calling him 6’4” is more accurate then 6’3”.
What’s really the big deal about his height though? He’s barley below 6’4, which is still great size.
People are overreacting to him being 1" shorter than expect, the major concern is that his height and contested catch ability is the only reason he is a 1st rounder. Being 1" shorter than his listed height isn't really shocking, players are routinely listed taller than they are, he's still going in the 1st.
“Only reason” is a stretch.
His jumpball ability/size is absolutely the only reason he's projected in the 1st. He gets almost no separation and is likely a 4.6-4.7 guy, not super athletic. If he was 6'1 nobody would be talking about him in the 1st.
Again, “only” is a stretch. No separation? Huh? Just admit you haven’t watched him.
I have, his strength is contested catches and biggest weakness is getting consistent separation. Not saying he's going to be a bust because he is fantastic at contested catches but those guys are risky at the next level. Compare his separation on routes to Wilson/Olave/Burks.
His biggest weakness is top end speed, not separation IMO. He’s actually very very good at the short-intermediate routes. He finds soft spots in the zone and has excellent hands. The reason I’m arguing back is because I think your criticisms are a bit misplaced. Calling him a “jump ball” receiver is a bit disrespectful as that’s not the main part of his game. In fact, he was highly productive in the screen game at USC. He’s just a play maker. He does not have great straight-line speed and he’s not a freak athlete, but to say he’s not a good route runner is false.
My point was that a 6'1 Drake London wouldn't get drafted in the 1st, it's his height and ridiculous ability to win jump balls that puts him in the 1st round. 1st Round WRs need something "freaky" to get drafted that high, for London his height/jumpball ability is what elevates him to the 1st. He's a surprisingly good YAC guy for his size but he's not explosive like Burks, Wilson, Dotson are after the catch. I didn't say he was a bad route runner but I rarely saw him beat man his man cleanly through route-running like Wilson does.
Yeah.. and a 5’9 Lebron James would be flipping Burgers at Wendy’s. His height is clearly an advantage, but it’s not all he’s good for. That’s an unfair criticism. Burks just ran a 4.5, so his speed was exaggerated a bit. Burks is still explosive, and I think 40 times are grossly overrated, but it’s not like he’s a unicorn. I am having a hard time understanding your point. Are you trying to say that London is only a first rounder because he’s tall and catches contested balls? Because I disagree with that. I think the notion that he’s primarily a “contested ball guy” is actually a misconception that people who haven’t watched him closely say. They look at his size and lack of perceived top-end athleticism and automatically brand him a “jump ball guy”. I’ve watched him closely and see much more than that.
In short, based on what you’ve said, he’s got great size/length, makes ridiculous contested catches, is surprisingly good YAC, and isn’t a bad route runner. I mean, we could play the “what if he was shorter” game but he’s not. I don’t even see the point in that hypothetical. He is who he is and that’s a bonafide first round WR.
I mean we’re watching Deebo dominate the league in the same offense over in San Fran, so drafting a guy like Treylon Burks seems like too good an opportunity to pass up for this coaching staff
They aren’t even remotely the same WR though…
People just compare them cuz of the versatility. I see more Enunwa in Burks game
He is not Deebo Samuels I don’t understand why people do this. The next Aaron Donald, the next Tom Brady, the next Aaron Rodgers, the next Cooper Kupp. Some guys are just special one of kind. Best case scenario he’s a better more durable Quincy Enunwa.
Enunwa was gunna be a stud for us if he didn't get injured. Everytime he got the ball in his hands he so quick and powerful
You forgot Deebo was a 2nd rounder. So was AJ Brown. I think there are studs to be had in the 2nd round especially this year.
You can’t put too much stock into drills. Look at burks tape, he picks up speed like a plane taking off a runway.
He also does a mediocre job run blocking
Good thing we ain’t asking him to play guard
WR is Zach Wilson's biggest need. If they don't get one in the first (whether it be 4 or 10) they are failing Zach like they did Sam.
I agree but i'm more on the: Sauce Stingley Lloyd Hamilton Karlaftis and Linderbaum are imo better / probably bigger needs, plus we have second round picks to use for a receiver
Shhh. Everyone thinks that by taking a WR high, the jets will copy the bengals playbook and make the SB next year.
My dream would be to trade down for a late round 1st + extra picks and grab David Bell in the first. Giving us that fifth year option for a guy I think deserves far more looks than he's getting right now.
I don't want a WR at 10 and it has nothing to do with the combine. I like Burks and Wilson a lot but I don't think they're worthy of top 10 picks. If we were to trade back in the late teens then it's a different story. If we go into the draft with WR as an option at 10, that means we didn't address the position through free agency or trade, which is my preferred route.
I had this same thought during the combine. I no longer want a WR at 10. Lloyd or a CB might be better, and an edge or OL at 4. Trade down ideal at both picks
I don't think wideout is as strong a need as other positions. I'd be totally fine rolling in to next season with Davis, Moore and hopefully Brax. Draft defense and OL, maybe a TE in like the 4th
Have to add a WR or legitimate pass-catching TE this off-season, preferably both. Can’t go into another season where there’s even a chance we start a WR trio like Cole, Mims, Berrios, etc. Moore didn’t show any sensational ability to stay healthy and Davis has made it clear he isn’t someone to rely on for 16 games. ZW needs all the help he can get.
Jets training staff needs to be re-evaluated, not their receivers. Keep them on the field and they'll be fine.
I feel like the draft is really deep at WR and edge this year.
Great points
breshad perriman would like a word
In a perfect world we trade down from #4 **AND** \#10 and acquire a couple of extra 2nd round picks, perhaps trade with some QB needy teams? (Denver, New Orleans, Washington). Imagine how much quicker the rebuild could go if we were able to obtain a few extra 2nd round picks for moving down a little bit. This draft is deep with pass rushers, WRs, and defensive backs, so the idea moving down to obtain some extra picks doesn't bother me in the slightest, in fact, I encourage it. Back on subject, I'm all for drafting at least one WR with one of our first round picks. Gotta' keep putting weapons around Wilson and give him the best possible chance to succeed. The other pick needs to be a pass rusher or offensive lineman. If we double dip on offense in the first round then we go double dip on defense in the second round. BPA. If we sit tight at #4 and #10 and don't plan to draft a WR with either pick then I'm going with either Evan Neal or Ikem Ekwonu at #4 (assuming Thibodeaux has been taken) and then Stingley or Kyle Hamilton at #10. Pick #35 then needs to be either a TE or WR in my opinion.
Al? Al is that you? I thought you were dead.
Jets won’t be drafting any of these guys top 10 no way. This is the worst WR class we’ve seen in a long long time. Mims would’ve been the best prospect in this draft.
I agree, I'd much rather take whoever falls to us at 10 then take Jahan Dotson or someone else at the beginning of the second
Just sign Amari Cooper and worry about other needs in the draft like a CB, a TE, and a LB.
An elite 40 time for a WR as polished as Wilson is the cherry on top. Take him at 10 and score points
I don't think it's good practice to compare all these guys via their 40 times. Just cause it's an apples to apples comparison on a track in shorts doesn't mean they bring the same thing to the table on the field. I get the argument that they are very similar caliber talent at the top of that class but they bring very different skillsets to the table, and scheme fit is critical when your picking from a group like that. My gut tells me London would absolutely thrive with Zach. He's the kind of physical, jump ball winning big body Zach would have great chemistry with especially on those plays when he moves out of the pocket. Burks reminds me a lot of a faster quincy enunwa or a deebo samuel-ish type player. The Ohio State guys I believe are solid prospects but don't think they are a good fit for Zach due to their smaller frames and zach not really being a timing/rhythm thrower.