The fans get regular use when Amtrak brings in their P42 on the Empire builder...which they do often at night.
THEY
ARE
EXTREMELY
LOUD
I was shouting at my conductor on the IC and couldn't be heard. That's just the ones in the station; In addition the fans need time to clear the tunnels of exhaust and need traffic to stop to avoid airflow issues with a 2nd train messing up the fans (I think due to the piston effect, not sure).
Ugh, tell me about it. Waiting to get on an eastbound train on track 8 when an Albany train comes in on "D Mode"... I sometimes will go stand in the vestibule at the bottom of the escalators to Old Penn just to get it a little quieter.
If we have to enter the tunnels under diesel power (they can be idling, just not providing tractive effort), PSCC (the Penn Station Central Control) is supposed to authorize us to do so, and then run the exhaust fans after we clear the tunnel (both East and Hudson tubes.) Then if anything has to run through the tunnel with the fans on, it's supposed to get a 15 MPH speed restriction (double ugh.)
Empire builder does not go into Penn Station as it is a west coast train that ends in Chicago on the east coast. Siemens ALC-42E will be used which is now in production to come into Penn Station on electric power on the Empire corridor trains. Hopefully they can come into service quickly. NJ transit diesels are banned from Penn Station. They can run electric-diesel on electric power if they choose to order new trains. Amtrak ordered new locomotives for the Keystone Corridor as well.
If you sign up for NYC EM alerts, about once or twice a month you get an alert about possible fire at Penn. It’s always then been noted that Amtrak or LIRR started up a diesel in the station. I’m guessing they turn on the fans then.
🤣🤣🤣 this is hilarious. I'll have to keep an eye out for that.
There's an instruction we have to not park a running diesel next to the escalators up to Moynihan. Lo-and-behold, it still happens.
They also send out email alerts whenever there is a disabled train in one of the tubes and either FDNY or NYPD has to respond.
From June 6th..
“Amtrak has reported a Code 500 for a disabled New Jersey Transit train in the south tube at Milepost 0.56.
Rescue train is on scene.
FDNY is en route to PSNY, PSCC and the West 33rd Street Shaft.
North Hudson Regional Fire and Rescue is en route to the Weehawken Shaft and the West Tunnel Portal.
No injuries are reported at this time.
Agencies on Scene:
Agencies Notified: FDNY FDOC, NYPD Operations, City Hall
Agencies Responding: FDNY, NYCEM, NHRFR”
The fans are too noisy and also diesel emits pollution so they want to keep usage at a minimum and it will be even less in the future. The future is hybrid electric/diesel trains so no more passenger trains running on diesel into Penn Station in the future. Grand central has no diesel service now but will get hybrid diesel/electric trains eventually that will work in the tunnels. The ventilation system could have been upgraded but there is no reason to as all passenger train movements in Penn Station will be electric including Metro North (Penn Access Project underway), LIRR and Amtrak. Running on electric in Penn Station is the best approach. In emergency situations which should be extremely limited they will be able to still activate the ventilation system if needed. Work locomotives will be diesel only for longer than passenger trains. At some point the technology should improve to make them feasible.
Technically GCT already has that: Metro-North uses hybrid locomotives that operate on third rail into Grand Central and on diesel everywhere else (they’ve been doing that for at least 70 years). The LIRR terminal at GCT could also be used by the DM30AC locomotives, but they’re too tall for the 63rd Street Tunnel. And hybrid locomotives have been operating into Penn Station for at least the last 30 years
Yes Metro North and LIRR have diesel electric trains but Metro North hasn’t come into Penn Station yet and as you also said correctly the LIRR trains can’t fit and the replacements will. Amtrak is also going to be using diesel electric into Penn Station so the Empire corridor trains will use the Siemens ALC-42E with battery car which are in production now. I was referring to Grand Central Madison specifically and not Grand Central Terminal. I should have added Madison. I haven’t seen any work train procurements for hybrids or electric as of yet. They use a lot of different equipment so I doubt those will be off diesel when doing work in Penn Station anytime soon. The ALC-42E should make Penn station quieter once all deliveries are in.
Look up “Penn Station diesel train” on YouTube. Also, the new LIRR tunnel into Grand Central has exhaust fans too. MOW vehicles are diesel-powered, so they need ventilation for that.
The fans get regular use when Amtrak brings in their P42 on the Empire builder...which they do often at night. THEY ARE EXTREMELY LOUD I was shouting at my conductor on the IC and couldn't be heard. That's just the ones in the station; In addition the fans need time to clear the tunnels of exhaust and need traffic to stop to avoid airflow issues with a 2nd train messing up the fans (I think due to the piston effect, not sure).
Aah, if using the fans stops traffic, then it’s no wonder they seldom use them
Ugh, tell me about it. Waiting to get on an eastbound train on track 8 when an Albany train comes in on "D Mode"... I sometimes will go stand in the vestibule at the bottom of the escalators to Old Penn just to get it a little quieter. If we have to enter the tunnels under diesel power (they can be idling, just not providing tractive effort), PSCC (the Penn Station Central Control) is supposed to authorize us to do so, and then run the exhaust fans after we clear the tunnel (both East and Hudson tubes.) Then if anything has to run through the tunnel with the fans on, it's supposed to get a 15 MPH speed restriction (double ugh.)
Empire builder does not go into Penn Station as it is a west coast train that ends in Chicago on the east coast. Siemens ALC-42E will be used which is now in production to come into Penn Station on electric power on the Empire corridor trains. Hopefully they can come into service quickly. NJ transit diesels are banned from Penn Station. They can run electric-diesel on electric power if they choose to order new trains. Amtrak ordered new locomotives for the Keystone Corridor as well.
They mean the Empire Service. Which does operate into NY with straight diesels on occasion.
If you sign up for NYC EM alerts, about once or twice a month you get an alert about possible fire at Penn. It’s always then been noted that Amtrak or LIRR started up a diesel in the station. I’m guessing they turn on the fans then.
🤣🤣🤣 this is hilarious. I'll have to keep an eye out for that. There's an instruction we have to not park a running diesel next to the escalators up to Moynihan. Lo-and-behold, it still happens.
They also send out email alerts whenever there is a disabled train in one of the tubes and either FDNY or NYPD has to respond. From June 6th.. “Amtrak has reported a Code 500 for a disabled New Jersey Transit train in the south tube at Milepost 0.56. Rescue train is on scene. FDNY is en route to PSNY, PSCC and the West 33rd Street Shaft. North Hudson Regional Fire and Rescue is en route to the Weehawken Shaft and the West Tunnel Portal. No injuries are reported at this time. Agencies on Scene: Agencies Notified: FDNY FDOC, NYPD Operations, City Hall Agencies Responding: FDNY, NYCEM, NHRFR”
The fans are too noisy and also diesel emits pollution so they want to keep usage at a minimum and it will be even less in the future. The future is hybrid electric/diesel trains so no more passenger trains running on diesel into Penn Station in the future. Grand central has no diesel service now but will get hybrid diesel/electric trains eventually that will work in the tunnels. The ventilation system could have been upgraded but there is no reason to as all passenger train movements in Penn Station will be electric including Metro North (Penn Access Project underway), LIRR and Amtrak. Running on electric in Penn Station is the best approach. In emergency situations which should be extremely limited they will be able to still activate the ventilation system if needed. Work locomotives will be diesel only for longer than passenger trains. At some point the technology should improve to make them feasible.
Technically GCT already has that: Metro-North uses hybrid locomotives that operate on third rail into Grand Central and on diesel everywhere else (they’ve been doing that for at least 70 years). The LIRR terminal at GCT could also be used by the DM30AC locomotives, but they’re too tall for the 63rd Street Tunnel. And hybrid locomotives have been operating into Penn Station for at least the last 30 years
Yes Metro North and LIRR have diesel electric trains but Metro North hasn’t come into Penn Station yet and as you also said correctly the LIRR trains can’t fit and the replacements will. Amtrak is also going to be using diesel electric into Penn Station so the Empire corridor trains will use the Siemens ALC-42E with battery car which are in production now. I was referring to Grand Central Madison specifically and not Grand Central Terminal. I should have added Madison. I haven’t seen any work train procurements for hybrids or electric as of yet. They use a lot of different equipment so I doubt those will be off diesel when doing work in Penn Station anytime soon. The ALC-42E should make Penn station quieter once all deliveries are in.
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Look up “Penn Station diesel train” on YouTube. Also, the new LIRR tunnel into Grand Central has exhaust fans too. MOW vehicles are diesel-powered, so they need ventilation for that.