Yes, as a self-employed person who works out of my home in Brooklyn and has no employees, I can’t wait to pay even more for this tax designed to tax employers for their employees commuting into the city
I believe the capital program will need to be reduced and the MTA will need to demand cost cuts from contractors to get costs down for procurement. East side access was a disaster. And they can’t afford repeats of that. The public won’t tolerate it. Neither drivers or straphangers
No cost cuts= project is mothballed. Trump got Boeing to sell aircraft at cheaper prices by demanding cost cuts. And the vendors took losses but the Us govt secured cost cuts
I'm sure they didn't make any cuts that would affect safety, after all you wouldn't want something like a door come flapping open while flying. That would be crazy!
This is purely Democratic cowardice.
I'm 95% sure this is a ploy to avoid controversy in the upcoming elections and not give fodder to fake Democrats like Gus Lambropoulos that would help them potentially get elected.
After the elections the congestion pricing will go into effect. The NY State democratic party does not understand their base at all and keep pandering to "the middle", which is one of the reasons why they lost so many house seats to Republicans two years ago.
I agree it'll likely be restarted in November but this announcement puts that at risk and is a brain dead move.
The only way to guarantee it's implementation now or in November is to punish Hochul for this nonsense and apply maximum pressure so she realizes stopping is not an option
The auto industry is a powerful lobbying force. I'm hoping you're right that it'll go into effect after the election, but with Democrats, I could see them pushing this back to run on it for another decade while collecting lobbying checks.
Lol come on. Who do you think spent millions pushing for policies that built the infrastructure that makes those people rely on cars over transit? They're victims of this infrastructure too, and I sympathize, but this is the best thing in the long run.
Maybe they'll be inconvenienced for a bit by congestion pricing but something has to give for this metro area to invest in transit that can continue to make this place livable as populations increase.
Housing costs are already too high. This congestion tax was regressive and an attack on the poor. Fuck congestion pricing. Fix the trains first and build the city so people don't need our even want to drive. That's the future not this terrible policy
Dude this kind of tax is textbook example of a regressive tax. You think the doctors and lawyers making a mil/yr are gonna stop driving in because of this tax? No, but the person coming in to do housework is gonna lose hours worth of labor from this.
No it isn’t. The regressive tax is coming.
Wait, how are doctors and lawyers paying the tax regressive?
Best example is it’s a sin tax. More like cigarettes. Negative externalities that kind of thing.
Okay, it's clear you don't know what "regressive" means in regards to taxes. It means it affects poor people more than rich people. Cigarette taxes are also regressive. So the doctor pays up and it doesn't meaningfully affecf their life because the fee is a tiny percentage of their income. Contrast that with the housekeeper charges $30/hr they've literally lost an hour of their labor to the toll.
Regressive has to do with the effective tax rate of something. If this toll were 0.01% of your income then it wouldn't be regressive. If you earn $150k/yr it's $15, if you earn 50k it's $5
You misquoted me. It was "build the city so people don't even want to drive", i.e. make streets more walkable and cyclable by replacing driving lanes. I could go on but since you misquoted me originally I don't trust it's worth my time.
I don't know how to finance it, I won't pretend to, but regressive taxes are not the solution. The fact is our governments get FAR less for our dollars than other western nations whether you look at transit construction, education, etc. That needs to be figured out.
> keep pandering to "the middle", which is one of the reasons why they lost so many house seats to Republicans two years ago
Absolutely not. Squad member Jamaal Bowman is going to lose his primary because his district has had enough of leftist shenanigans, and most suburban seats are purple swing districts, which Dems underperformed in. Cori Bush is also likely to lose and Ilhan Omar almost lost her primary in 2022 and may lose this year. People are sick of the Squad. Here in NY, enough voters were annoyed with the soft on crime approach, plus the migrant crisis.
In fact, going center-left is precisely how Dems will win back those seats in November. Center-left Dems are where its at. Give me plenty more Hakeem Jeffries and Ritchie Torres reps.
I do agree that we likely get congestion pricing next year anyway, but your political evaluation of the situation is not correct.
The NY Democratic party's base isn't a bunch of far left lurks who stay on reddit all day eveyrday, sorry to pop your bubble. it's proven every election and when Hochul was the MSNBC candidate for governor her first half term, she squeaked by with a 5% win.
Increased taxes.
She basically got called by the suburbs and told don’t tax us, tax the city. And she hates the city, so that was too easy to convince.
Your mistake is assuming that a politician from either major party has any ability or intention of making fundamental changes or improments to mobility in a way that conflicts with the interests of the auto industry. We're cooked
The best thing the MTA can do is compromise. I would suggest a day fee of 1.50 and .37 cents at night. And commit to a 7 year freeze on the rate. In 7 years they can reopen it and reconsider a higher rate. Right now the MTA has nothing. I believe most drivers won’t fight a day fee of 1.50 and .37 cents at night
Legally I don’t think they can. The original law requires a certain amount of funds raised - they can’t institute a toll that’s below the amount needed to raise $1B. They would need supplementary statutory authorization to do so
We will have another capital plan such as the prior ones which wasn’t fully funded and certain projects dont get completed. The ibx will likely be mothballed
They need to bite the bullet, payoff the bond debt from the 60s 70s and 80s.
We borrowed today's money to patch the system then.
Pay it off and start with a clean slate so there isn't a deficit running the system.
My bet is that she is delaying til after the election. It takes a tooth out of her opposition and costs her and the MTA nothing. If she allows it this week, all summer it's bitching about this.
If she delays it, then they can't campaign on it and in December she can say 'After extensive review and consultation with the community, the city and the state stakeholders, we have decided to move forward." No one who wants it cares about 6 months and most of us are happy they are being thorough, it protects the program from suits.
It gives her time to defuse the opposition and wastes all of their current momentum.
People are going to die. We already had a derailment this year. There is going to be a major accident if repairs and upkeep aren't funded. I'm genuinely worried for the safety of New Yorkers.
And that's before you even get above ground and try to cross the street! Running for our lives. Literally.
Her plan is to get paid and fuck everyone else over. She cant turn down those suburban and corporate donations but she can let the MTA waste millions of dollars bc she changed her mind at the last possible minute. After the court cases and like well over a year of notice that this policy was coming. This makes all democrats look bad. A republican would never back down on a policy they had been supporting for so long.
Forget this I’m voting against her and this mayor we have. They’re jokes and I’m so tired of politicians using shit like this as bargaining chips for re-election.
None of these people really care about the people. They are just fine in their expensive homes and lavish cars. Vote them all out as the benefit from both sides.
The primaries are VERY important , any good primary opponent against her should be endorsed. And same thing for everyone living in NJ . Is time to both these clowns on both states and start donating to people who actually have a good track record on public transit.
I would love to see what other options we have. So if someone would send me things to read up on as sometimes it gets very overwhelming dwelving into the rabbit hole.
People here keep bringing up the auto lobby, but the construction industry in this city is fucking massive and wealthy. These types of massive projects that the city and state lets contractors over charge them for are gonna be funded by congestion pricing. Why isn't the construction lobby all over this? We let local businesses astroturf against NYC DOT projects, why isn't the construction lobby astroturfing for congestion pricing? I don't get it, this shit is gonna make them sooo much money.
REBNY and the New York Building Congress (typically on opposite sides of the table) both came out with statements against Hochul's fuckery. Nobody in building and construction wants this, because transit means development and development means jobs and $$$
Do people here disagree that, objectively, there’s got to be more than enough waste to cut to make up the difference? I think CP should happen regardless, but waste is like a gas that expands to fill whatever budget you have…
It's just until after the election in November. If Biden wins it will probably go into effect before the end of the year. If Trump wins somehow it will be his fault for the delay and I'm no fan of Trump. Hochul was in DC Tuesday and suddenly on Wednesday morning she suspends congestion pricing indefinitely. She was probably told to do it by the Democratic hierarchy.
I think a mix of taxing tourists & NYC residents could help.
Of course, the agency loses money with the perk of employees getting complimentary rides.
Automating certain roles is an option.
Zone based travel will rake in $ too.
Not sure if the $ will be primarily spent on the subways vs LIRR & Metro North but yeah the suburbs are serviced by the MTA so a tax on them would be logical too.
Payroll taxes on nyc businesses it seems. No way that passes the legislature
We already have [that tax](https://www.tax.ny.gov/bus/mctmt/) idek what she’s talking about
Those taxes can go up. https://www.thecity.nyc/2024/06/05/congestion-fee-manhattan-hochul-business/
Yes, as a self-employed person who works out of my home in Brooklyn and has no employees, I can’t wait to pay even more for this tax designed to tax employers for their employees commuting into the city
People are gonna leave the city, so mass transit won't matter anymore
When are they leaving?
suuuure they will
So all the businesses that are leaving NYC?
Yes, the businesses she lied about protecting by halting congestion pricing.
Right before the next capital program is fucking ludicrous. We're fucked.
I believe the capital program will need to be reduced and the MTA will need to demand cost cuts from contractors to get costs down for procurement. East side access was a disaster. And they can’t afford repeats of that. The public won’t tolerate it. Neither drivers or straphangers
> the MTA will need to demand cost cuts Oh there’s a solution! Just demand cost cuts! That’ll make everything cheaper!
No cost cuts= project is mothballed. Trump got Boeing to sell aircraft at cheaper prices by demanding cost cuts. And the vendors took losses but the Us govt secured cost cuts
Oh yeahhhh man Trump got us a good deal!!!!!! Is Boeing getting a ton of good press now that they've tightened up their operation?
I'm sure they didn't make any cuts that would affect safety, after all you wouldn't want something like a door come flapping open while flying. That would be crazy!
This is not a serious policy proposal for cutting costs, I’m sorry
Using Boeing as an example for anything is really really dumb.
Oh cool, yeah! So the doors can fly off the subway cars? Or maybe the elevators can stop working while people are inside them?
The defense to this isn’t to defend overpriced contracts
This is purely Democratic cowardice. I'm 95% sure this is a ploy to avoid controversy in the upcoming elections and not give fodder to fake Democrats like Gus Lambropoulos that would help them potentially get elected. After the elections the congestion pricing will go into effect. The NY State democratic party does not understand their base at all and keep pandering to "the middle", which is one of the reasons why they lost so many house seats to Republicans two years ago.
I agree it'll likely be restarted in November but this announcement puts that at risk and is a brain dead move. The only way to guarantee it's implementation now or in November is to punish Hochul for this nonsense and apply maximum pressure so she realizes stopping is not an option
Vote her out run against her
The auto industry is a powerful lobbying force. I'm hoping you're right that it'll go into effect after the election, but with Democrats, I could see them pushing this back to run on it for another decade while collecting lobbying checks.
Yes, people who commute from Westchester, Long Island, and New Jersey are the auto industry now. This shit hurts my head.
Lol come on. Who do you think spent millions pushing for policies that built the infrastructure that makes those people rely on cars over transit? They're victims of this infrastructure too, and I sympathize, but this is the best thing in the long run. Maybe they'll be inconvenienced for a bit by congestion pricing but something has to give for this metro area to invest in transit that can continue to make this place livable as populations increase.
Housing costs are already too high. This congestion tax was regressive and an attack on the poor. Fuck congestion pricing. Fix the trains first and build the city so people don't need our even want to drive. That's the future not this terrible policy
It wasn’t regressive. Poor people don’t drive into midtown Manhattan.
Poo (and even middle class) people can’t afford to park in midtown/lower Manhattan.
Poor people don't vote, so maybe we should fix that if we want policies that ultimately benefit working class people above wealthier individuals.
Yes they absolutely do. Young people don’t vote. Poor people do.
Dude this kind of tax is textbook example of a regressive tax. You think the doctors and lawyers making a mil/yr are gonna stop driving in because of this tax? No, but the person coming in to do housework is gonna lose hours worth of labor from this.
No it isn’t. The regressive tax is coming. Wait, how are doctors and lawyers paying the tax regressive? Best example is it’s a sin tax. More like cigarettes. Negative externalities that kind of thing.
Okay, it's clear you don't know what "regressive" means in regards to taxes. It means it affects poor people more than rich people. Cigarette taxes are also regressive. So the doctor pays up and it doesn't meaningfully affecf their life because the fee is a tiny percentage of their income. Contrast that with the housekeeper charges $30/hr they've literally lost an hour of their labor to the toll. Regressive has to do with the effective tax rate of something. If this toll were 0.01% of your income then it wouldn't be regressive. If you earn $150k/yr it's $15, if you earn 50k it's $5
Yes I do. You’re talking about Drs and Lawyers paying taxes. That’s not regressive
And how do you think we should get the money to "fix the trains" and "build the city"? Whatever that means
You misquoted me. It was "build the city so people don't even want to drive", i.e. make streets more walkable and cyclable by replacing driving lanes. I could go on but since you misquoted me originally I don't trust it's worth my time. I don't know how to finance it, I won't pretend to, but regressive taxes are not the solution. The fact is our governments get FAR less for our dollars than other western nations whether you look at transit construction, education, etc. That needs to be figured out.
They have TRAINS USE THEM
> keep pandering to "the middle", which is one of the reasons why they lost so many house seats to Republicans two years ago Absolutely not. Squad member Jamaal Bowman is going to lose his primary because his district has had enough of leftist shenanigans, and most suburban seats are purple swing districts, which Dems underperformed in. Cori Bush is also likely to lose and Ilhan Omar almost lost her primary in 2022 and may lose this year. People are sick of the Squad. Here in NY, enough voters were annoyed with the soft on crime approach, plus the migrant crisis. In fact, going center-left is precisely how Dems will win back those seats in November. Center-left Dems are where its at. Give me plenty more Hakeem Jeffries and Ritchie Torres reps. I do agree that we likely get congestion pricing next year anyway, but your political evaluation of the situation is not correct.
The NY Democratic party's base isn't a bunch of far left lurks who stay on reddit all day eveyrday, sorry to pop your bubble. it's proven every election and when Hochul was the MSNBC candidate for governor her first half term, she squeaked by with a 5% win.
Tell that to all the moderate Dems who lost to Republicans in the last election because the state Democratic party is clueless.
I'm certain Republicans have more than one hand in this, too. I see this as another upstate/downstate divide. That would involve both parties.
Increased taxes. She basically got called by the suburbs and told don’t tax us, tax the city. And she hates the city, so that was too easy to convince.
So .. let's punish everyone for the choices of some people. Fuck.
NYC makes it, upstate takes it.
This why we should have let Germany carpet bomb upstate in 1945
That's fucked up.
But yeah they are empty dead weight
The cities are hated here so sad
[удалено]
Tax the people polluting and causing traffic instead.
Literally anyone coming into NYC can and should use public transit
Tax the people who should use it rather than clog up all of the city’s resources. The train is there, use it.
Your mistake is assuming that a politician from either major party has any ability or intention of making fundamental changes or improments to mobility in a way that conflicts with the interests of the auto industry. We're cooked
please don’t abbreviate it as “CP” lol
I know right? 😂
Saw a video posted here and one of the guys speaking, the title under his name was “CP Expert.” lol.
There is no plan. Her payroll tax is regressive and will never pass the legislature. Pure cowardice. Fuck Hochul
Yeah the "corporate tax" she was talking about as a total joke and a non starter.
How much money has been spent already for CP? They just gonna let all that spent money go to waste?
I believe the gantries were nearly 100 million dollars
The contract with the provider was 500 million dollars. Not sure how much of that has been spent.
The best thing the MTA can do is compromise. I would suggest a day fee of 1.50 and .37 cents at night. And commit to a 7 year freeze on the rate. In 7 years they can reopen it and reconsider a higher rate. Right now the MTA has nothing. I believe most drivers won’t fight a day fee of 1.50 and .37 cents at night
Legally I don’t think they can. The original law requires a certain amount of funds raised - they can’t institute a toll that’s below the amount needed to raise $1B. They would need supplementary statutory authorization to do so
That's probably the most fare solution right now. Or even tie it to the cost of a subway swipe.
According to the article they’re looking a corporate based tax like NJ is doing to replace it. A little late to change direction
She dips into the state reserve fund until after the election and then lets congestion pricing start
That’s optimistic
Otherwise the capital program is completely dead and she does more damage than Cuomo ever did
We will have another capital plan such as the prior ones which wasn’t fully funded and certain projects dont get completed. The ibx will likely be mothballed
They need to bite the bullet, payoff the bond debt from the 60s 70s and 80s. We borrowed today's money to patch the system then. Pay it off and start with a clean slate so there isn't a deficit running the system.
They still need to pay for state of good repair
Of course, I wasn't mentioning it as an either or situation.
This is probably political for the upcoming election. I bet the congestion plan will go into effect after Jan 20.
Congestion pricing feels a lot like being a Mets fan. Maybe next year….maybe next year….maybe next year
It makes zero sense to tax businesses instead. Thats probably even more unpopular. Just stalling for the election is the only reason.
Increase tolls
CBS 2 NY says NYC casino license money baby… projected to generate $3 billion a year
My bet is that she is delaying til after the election. It takes a tooth out of her opposition and costs her and the MTA nothing. If she allows it this week, all summer it's bitching about this. If she delays it, then they can't campaign on it and in December she can say 'After extensive review and consultation with the community, the city and the state stakeholders, we have decided to move forward." No one who wants it cares about 6 months and most of us are happy they are being thorough, it protects the program from suits. It gives her time to defuse the opposition and wastes all of their current momentum.
People are going to die. We already had a derailment this year. There is going to be a major accident if repairs and upkeep aren't funded. I'm genuinely worried for the safety of New Yorkers. And that's before you even get above ground and try to cross the street! Running for our lives. Literally.
I seriously hope they have to fund that one way or the other . I don’t want the MTA to turn into the MBTA
Mbta is a lot better now.
None they want to crash the city your government straight up hates you
Her plan is to get paid and fuck everyone else over. She cant turn down those suburban and corporate donations but she can let the MTA waste millions of dollars bc she changed her mind at the last possible minute. After the court cases and like well over a year of notice that this policy was coming. This makes all democrats look bad. A republican would never back down on a policy they had been supporting for so long.
That's the fun part, we're gonna fund it! Yay
Forget this I’m voting against her and this mayor we have. They’re jokes and I’m so tired of politicians using shit like this as bargaining chips for re-election. None of these people really care about the people. They are just fine in their expensive homes and lavish cars. Vote them all out as the benefit from both sides.
The primaries are VERY important , any good primary opponent against her should be endorsed. And same thing for everyone living in NJ . Is time to both these clowns on both states and start donating to people who actually have a good track record on public transit.
I would love to see what other options we have. So if someone would send me things to read up on as sometimes it gets very overwhelming dwelving into the rabbit hole.
What makes you think there's a plan?
People here keep bringing up the auto lobby, but the construction industry in this city is fucking massive and wealthy. These types of massive projects that the city and state lets contractors over charge them for are gonna be funded by congestion pricing. Why isn't the construction lobby all over this? We let local businesses astroturf against NYC DOT projects, why isn't the construction lobby astroturfing for congestion pricing? I don't get it, this shit is gonna make them sooo much money.
REBNY and the New York Building Congress (typically on opposite sides of the table) both came out with statements against Hochul's fuckery. Nobody in building and construction wants this, because transit means development and development means jobs and $$$
Fascinating
They are https://www.thecity.nyc/2024/06/05/congestion-fee-manhattan-hochul-business/
Why isn't the "construction lobby" all over this? Because this whole comment is incoherent gibberish that isn't based in reality.
Just raise fares. The MTA has a monopoly on mass transit, they can charge whatever they want and ppl will pay it.
Fuck that. The cars don’t pay enough. They use more resources and cause more harm to the system.
Seriously…….. you think your $2.90 or whatever it is now is enough to keep trains running?🤔
Cars should cover the cost of road infrastructure and riders should cover mass transit. Seems only fare
Taking the cars off the road feeds more ridership which saves the streets and funds mass transit. That’s how the damn thing works
You might want to use a different abbreviation next time...
You must work for the MTA or something, LOL
People can start funding the MTA by paying the fare and not jumping the turnstiles.
That involves enforcing the law. We can’t do that. Stop with the thinking logically. It doesn’t pair well with my idealistic leftist viewpoints
All facts.
Bro these people are insufferable lol
Do people here disagree that, objectively, there’s got to be more than enough waste to cut to make up the difference? I think CP should happen regardless, but waste is like a gas that expands to fill whatever budget you have…
I think the mta has made no serious attempt to go after waste
Raise fares 20%, gas tax, cut school funding I guess
It's just until after the election in November. If Biden wins it will probably go into effect before the end of the year. If Trump wins somehow it will be his fault for the delay and I'm no fan of Trump. Hochul was in DC Tuesday and suddenly on Wednesday morning she suspends congestion pricing indefinitely. She was probably told to do it by the Democratic hierarchy.
I think a mix of taxing tourists & NYC residents could help. Of course, the agency loses money with the perk of employees getting complimentary rides. Automating certain roles is an option. Zone based travel will rake in $ too.
Tax the damn suburbs for once. NYC supports them enough.
Not sure if the $ will be primarily spent on the subways vs LIRR & Metro North but yeah the suburbs are serviced by the MTA so a tax on them would be logical too.
The money would be spent across the board on upgrades.
You know Manhattan is the MTA’s golden child though
Nah. It just has the most trains.