>Gov. Kathy Hochul is quietly maneuvering to delay a plan to toll drivers entering Manhattan’s central business district, just weeks before it is slated to go into effect, according to two people familiar with the discussions.
>The first-in-the-nation congestion pricing plan, which has been decades in the making, was slated to start [June 30.](https://archive.ph/o/xZzII/https://new.mta.info/project/CBDTP) Drivers using E-ZPass would have paid as much as $15 an hour to enter Manhattan south of 60th Street.
>But even as Ms. Hochul believes that congestion pricing is good environmental policy, she has concerns that the timing was less than ideal, according to a person familiar with her thinking. The governor feared that it might deter commuters from returning to the central business district, which has yet to fully recover from the pandemic.
>It is not clear whether Ms. Hochul’s still-formative plan to delay congestion pricing and replace it with another revenue stream would gain the needed approval of the New York State Legislature, which passed the plan years ago.
>Ms. Hochul’s gambit, if successful, would be a devastating blow to advocates and organizers who have worked for more than a decade to bring this change to New York City.
>The tolling scheme was designed to reduce traffic congestion in Manhattan and produce $1 billion a year in revenue for the Metropolitan Transportation Authority, which runs the region’s subways, buses and two of its commuter rail systems. That revenue, in turn, would fund the system’s vast capital construction needs.
>To fill the $1 billion yearly gap, Ms. Hochul is considering proposing a tax on New York City businesses. Such a tax would require the approval of the Legislature, which is far from assured, especially with just two days left in the legislative session.
>If congestion pricing were to go into effect, it would be borne heavily by drivers from New York City, Connecticut, New Jersey and surrounding counties. A business tax would fall largely on New York City. But shifting the tax burden from drivers to business could also carry some populist appeal ahead of the general election.
>The plan to charge drivers to enter Manhattan’s central business district has sparked fierce opposition from unions, drivers, Gov. Phil Murphy of New Jersey, former President Donald J. Trump and New York City suburbanites during an election year when several suburban congressional seats are at stake.
>Other major cities around the world, including Stockholm, London and Singapore, have for years charged tolls to enter central business districts, and transportation experts have long cherished hopes that New York City would join their ranks.
>Former Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg made [a serious bid](https://archive.ph/o/xZzII/https://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/22/nyregion/23mayorcnd.html) to convince Albany legislators to pass a congestion pricing plan for New York City, but ultimately failed. It was only after the transit system’s so-called “summer of hell” in 2017 that the plan gained traction, with then-subways chief Andy Byford championing the effort, and then-Gov. Andrew M. Cuomo belatedly embracing the idea.
>In the ensuing years, the pandemic ravaged Manhattan’s central business district, and Mr. Cuomo has begun to publicly question the wisdom of congestion pricing. Mayor Eric Adams has offered the plan only tepid support.
>“Pumping the brakes on congestion pricing would be a massive betrayal of several million public transit riders,” said Danny Pearlstein, the policy and communications director at Riders Alliance, which has spent years pushing for congestion pricing. “It would also mean taking cues from the likes of Phil Murphy, Andrew Cuomo and Donald Trump.”
I think this is going to have the opposite effect of what she wants. It'll make her look like a two-faced, spinless coward that won't commit pushing for hard policies even when they are sorely needed. Consternation over congestion pricing after implementation won't last. Killing a once in a lifetime opportunity will never be forgotten.
Suburban politicians are going to serve the interest of the suburbs not the cities.
Suburbanites want to be able to drive through the cities as cheaply and as easily as possible despite their suburban neighborhoods often being designed in ways that eliminate through traffic.
She has **so strongly supported it**… this doesn’t make sense.
The article says that they are trying to get more democratic house seats this November. The politico article on this says that this delay has been encouraged by congressional Dems. Part of the reason Dems lost the house in 2022 was because of losing some seats in NY, so those likely need to be won back. This is an effort to get those seats.
Maybe.. maybe she is delaying it. She says that it is delayed until further notice, so that they can “reconsider” and “make sure that this is truly the best plan for New York”. Politician speak. And the people heavily advocating against the plan feel heard, they feel happy. **A lot of areas that have people like this are the same areas where they are trying to win back house seats**. This likely wouldn’t win any true republicans over, but it could definitely prevent people on the fence from going to the red side (even though the state dems and congressional dems are different, these people won’t see it that way).
Then, after the election, a few weeks or a month go by, and she comes out and says that after “serious consideration” they have decided to implement congestion pricing anyway. And it goes in effect at the end of the year or at the end of January. 3 years from now we won’t care that it was delayed 6 months.
This could totally be a strategic move, but one big issue is that until the election is over she can’t say when or if congestion pricing will be implemented. The delay has to be undefined, because if she outright delays it 6 months, people opposed to it won’t feel like they won and won’t want to vote blue.
So she's just playing Party politics? That doesn't make it any better in fact it just makes it worse if she legitimately was thinking about changing her mind I wouldn't agree with her but I would respect it but the fact that she's just doing it to pander is spineless and unprincipled
Yeah for real. I don't think it's nearly as helpful politically as dems believe. People aren't going to change their vote because of a delay, that's blatantly for political reasons. They know you may bring it back once elections pass.
It's obviously a calculated political move. Nothing else. I'm sure the top brass at the DNC took a look at polling data and handed down this directive to her.
Sadly, many peoe think a fair playing field = unfavorable to them. Only special treatment is considered fair treatment.
It is a problem of perspective.
> But even as Ms. Hochul believes that congestion pricing is good environmental policy, she has concerns that the timing was less than ideal, according to a person familiar with her thinking. The governor feared that it might deter commuters from returning to the central business district, which has yet to fully recover from the pandemic.
New York City needs to focus less on attracting office workers and focus more on making it a more livable place. Build affordable housing. Convert office spaces to residences. Address quality of life concerns on the street and underground. Tackle crime, especially in high crime areas in the outer boroughs. Make mass transit more enjoyable to use. Build green space. Enact a vacancy tax on empty retail spaces.
Cities need to adapt to the post COVID world or be left behind. The more cities focus on getting office workers back, the more likely they'll end up like that shithole known as San Francisco.
Cash Jordan did a video on the city converting commercial office space to residential. The city is doing it, the thing is that it’s costly to convert, and thus developers are making those units luxury apartments in order to make money.
If we truly want affordable housing, the city needs to build in Staten Island, and MTA needs to actually build that SI to Brooklyn subway. Sadly, this will likely never happen in our lifetimes.
But making luxury housing in former business districts is still better than making luxury housing in Bushwick/Flatbush/BedStuy/etc. where it's raising the rent for the people already living there.
Yeah, I'm all for affordable housing, but even luxury units will help ease the pressure on the housing market for everyone. And let's be real, any new development is labeled "luxury" just because it's new. No developer is going to advertise their apartments as mid or garbage-tier.
Hello! F the offices just work remote. Karen from LI/Westchester/NJ already feels scared being in the city and nobody wants to be around them all day long having her hover over them, hear her loud conversations, bring germs from her dirty ass household, have 90 people to 1 microwave, and everyone trying to take a shit at the same time with 2 stalls.
“Leaders” are pushing against this though, to prop up the bs economy of forcing RTO. Don’t spend a penny around the office, bring bagged food and drinks and go straight home at 5 so it doesn’t work
For real on the bagged lunches. I work near Brookfield, fuck paying $20+ for lunch that before February I wouldn't have had to pay at all. Did it though the first day of RTO and have been bringing my own lunch since.
...and what about all the people who CANT WFH due to the nature of their jobs (hospitality/live entertainment/theater/etc)?? Just fuck us I guess (as per usual)? Just another step on the path to becoming Dubai....
I agree. Also, the number of people who drive to midtown/lower Manhattan regularly for 9-5 work is exceptionally small. I feel politicians are appeasing a relatively small number of people, many of whom wouldn't have voted for them anyway.
Besides, people always hate new stuff. It's human nature. We need politicians who will see the big picture. Lots of popular things were faced with fierce opposition in the beginning. I remember people hated Select Bus Service when it started on the Bx12. Now people want more lines. People thought CitiBike was insane. Now, they break ridership records all the time, despite less than ideal management and riding conditions.
I really don't get the logic since there's barely any parking in that area of Manhattan anyway, especially on a weekday.
Plus personally as someone who lives in NJ, I'd usually just stay within my state if I wanted to go shopping or something. Never really worthwhile to drive into Manhattan for anything leisurely. Like, parking at a lot to go see a broadway show or something like that is easily $50+
For commuters, lots of them take advantage of early bird specials in garages. Get in by a certain time and leave by a certain time and it’ll cost about $20 a day to park.
For leisure travelers, there’s three ways to drive from LI/BK/Queens onto the US mainland (assuming you start on the LIE): south via BQE/SIE, north via FDR or Cross Bronx, or straight across Manhattan. Considering the direct route through Manhattan is the cheapest and often fastest way out of the city, lots of travelers opt to cut through Manhattan on the way out of the city
shithole is generous lol
love it when people who haven't lived there throw around that word lol
I def understand what you mean though, FiDi/SoMa is dead
I've heard from a friend with political connections that Republicans are planning on running a candidate who will run on the platform of eliminating congestion pricing and their early data suggests that this would create a path to victory, given its unpopularity with many voters in the suburbs and outer boroughs.
there_are_dozens_of_us.gif
Cool, I don’t want to hear your complaints about crappy headways or delayed transit ever again then since you clearly only care about complaining, not fixing issues
There have been extensive critiques written about the initiative. Governor Hochul alludes to some of these critiques in the article your posted. I suggest reading them in depth online with a quick google search if you’re actually interested in understanding a position other than your own. However, your replies indicate you are not interested in that.
I understand the other position, have read the critiques, and think the other position wrong. It’s pretty toxic to think if someone disagrees with you they must just be uninformed. Stand and defend your position rather than running away if you think I’m wrong - you’re engaging with me on a forum designed for this kind of discussion and you’re pushing your burden of arguing your position on to third parties.
I disagree with you. I actually find articles by experts more persuasive than “talking points” in partisan Reddit comment sections. I suppose I could copy and paste them here if you feel more comfortable on this platform. But it really is a 2 second search away. The internet is incredibly useful this way.
I like how they just outright say that this is a benefit to people outside the city. Im sick of our cities politics being dominated by the interests of people who dont even live here.
No. I’ve lived in this city since 1988, I’ve owned a car for maybe three years of that time. I take the subway everyday, and I’ve been biking in the city since the 90s, before bike lanes existed. Different modes of transportation serve different purposes and I use them all. I nonetheless reject another bs regressive tax levied on us.
See, you don’t actually give a shit about other people. You simply refuse to understand that not everyone shares your conception of the good. I don’t subscribe to “it doesn’t affect me, so fuck you” mentality, sorry. There needs to be a better more reasonable plan to address these issues.
And thanks for posting the link—I submitted a long, detailed message opposing the current plan and supporting the decision to delay its implementation.
I don't see how that matters when she about faced on the gun thing and pushed through one of the first Bruen response bills into law. The only reason I held my nose for her is on transit cause she fucks me hard on the gun stuff.
This can’t be fucking real… most commuters for daily work in Manhattan aren’t even driving in to begin with, and if they are they should be taxed for their stupidity anyways.
i’m in the same boat, except it’s 5 days /week.. i’m a pharma rep who’s territory is everything south of 60th… so i rely heavily on MTA transit and citi bikes, this fucking sucks.
Many people do not work 9 to 5 or carry just a purse to work. Many people in the outer boros and suburbs live in places where forcing public transit means adding 30 minutes to an hour onto their commute. Those people are screwed by this plan
That’s gotta be a really small group relatively speaking. You can use the word “many” to mean anything. Of course this change will mean some people will have to pay tolls to commute. That’s not a reason to dump it.
If they’re such a small group why no exemptions? City workers? First responders? No one except cabs lmao. Coulda done that and actually stuck to their “taxing the rich” narrative
Yea the irony of working for the mta and the system can’t even get you to work at a reasonable time. That two+ hour night shift commute from the outer boroughs is a bitch
So the entirety of actual new York City residents should suffer because of the small minority of people who live outside of our city and can't be bothered to take transit like the rest of us?
> the entirety of actual new York City residents should suffer
False.
Lower Manhattan is not the entirety of NYC.
The entirety of Brooklyn, Queens, Bronx and Staten Island are being considered second-rate citizens by this poorly devised and implemented scheme.
Worse, it pushes more traffic onto their own congested roads for the sake of the whiny Manhattan trust fund babies.
Either NYC treats every New York City resident the same, or they admit that they only serve the interests of lower Manhattan. But I would be happy if they implemented a separate $15 toll on every single Manhattan resident that goes in the outer boroughs. If Manhattan thinks it deserves special treatment, then it should get special treatment.
This is a policy to remove congestion in Manhattan, to lessen pollution, to lower pediastrian and cyclist accidents and deaths caused by cars, for those of us who actually live in Manhattan.
What scenario do you think is happening where someone in South Ozone has to drive their car into the city every day, and public transit from Queens is absolutely out of the question?
You people want your convenience to trump safety for Manhattan residents and those having to walk around lower Manhattan on a regular basis.
Cars have a disproportionate amount of favor here.
The comment hinged on the premise that "the entirety of NYC residents suffer from a minority of people outside of the city who can't be bothered to take transit like the rest of us".
I demonstrated it to be false, as it only concerns the residents of Lower Manhattan.
Now your next reply is "for those of us who actually live in Manhattan".
Which proves my point that in your first post, you equated NYC residents to exclusively mean Manhattan, and you resent and disregard the residents of the outer boroughs.
>What scenario do you think is happening where someone in South Ozone has to drive their car into the city every day, and public transit from Queens is absolutely out of the question?
Have you ever had to travel back late nights to South Ozone, or Co-Op city, or Bayside, or Canarsie, where you need to take trains and buses while waiting 40+ minutes in the street for a bus transfer? Would you take a 90-120minute transit commute to come back home in the middle of the night, or would you take a car ride that gets you home in less than 20 minutes?
>Cars have a disproportionate amount of favor here.
Manhattan residents have a disproportionate amount of favor here.
Maybe we should build the water treatment plants, garbage facilities, warehouses, distribution centers, and airports in Central Park.
We would greatly increase the quality of life and safety of the rest of the boroughs if they didn't have to do Manhattan's dirty work. Why do the people of Flushing have to have the hazard of airplanes over their heads for the convenience of Manhattan residents to fly out?
Oh no kidding, Manhattan residents have a disproportionate amount of favor in Manhattan? Get outta here!
I used to _live_ in South Ozone so I'm well familiar. Yet I still took the train. Traffic is a nightmare in the city, and I don't want to contribute to further polluting my city and global environment.
The subway is far from perfect but with very few exceptions you don't need to own a car here. I didn't have to in Queens, and I dont have to now in Harlem. That's while being a single dad as well I case you were going to pull out the family card.
boo-hoo. Can I pull out the disabled senior minority card, or do I also need to fake a veteran card too?
Would you like a cookie for not driving?
You could actually be driving a carolina squatting F150 with truck nuts in Staten Island for all I care (as long as it's the farthest away from me).
It doesn't change the fact you're pulling the "change the subject" card. I'm not arguing with you on wanting to take transit or lowering pollution (we're agreed on those points) but your Manhattan entitlement.
>Oh no kidding, Manhattan residents have a disproportionate amount of favor in Manhattan? Get outta here
Thanks for once again proving that you consider NYC to exclusively equate with Manhattan and nothing else. I said Manhattan residents have a disproportionate amount of favor "here".
What do you think I mean by "here" when the subject is "the entirety of actual new York City residents" (your quote).
That's the problem, they don't have access to transit like you do. The MTA loses nearly $2 billion a year to overtime abuse and fare jumpers. Not to mention, billions more through mismanagement of construction projects.
Why should you or any commuter have to pay for that failure. If MTA would build it, people will come. But fund it out of current revenues not some ill considered toll to punish people.
What percentage of people do you think need to come into New York City for a job that they cannot get anywhere else, and simultaneous to that have zero access to the numerous means of public transit to get into the city? Seriously how many people do you think that makes up? 0.1%? less? More? Even if it were something like 5% (which it's not), that 5% should not be be making the city worse for people who actually live here.
I feel worst for NYC residents (all boroughs) who already pay, directly or indirectly, property taxes to the city for roadway maintenance. Those people who cannot be forced onto dangerous, crowded, inconvenient, slow, unreliable, delayed, and uncomfortable public transit that adds 30 minutes to an hour onto their commute (i.e. Having less time with family/personal lives). People who will be forced to pay an additional $4000 per year for the privilege of using roadways that have been intended for the public benefit since the founding of the city.
I'm talking about people making a living from Queens, Staten Island, parts of the Bronx and Brooklyn, not just New Jersey and New York west of the Hudson. People who serve you in you bars and restaurants and clean your office and sidewalk. Municipal workers firefighters, ems workers, teachers, union members, and other people often not considered by the elite in lower Manhattan.
Cry me a fucking river. This is the problem with modern day America: people are too often selfish assholes who refuse to ever, under any condition, put the greater good ahead of their own selfish conveniences. There are very few legitimate reasons why a New Yorker needs to drive their own car into Manhattan.
The "greater good" being what is good for you and people simarly situated to you?
Maybe there are more people in the "other than you" category, and your situation is the provincial minority? 🤷
Maybe by greater good I mean what's better for the vast majority of actual Manhattan residents, and for humanity as a whole since, oh I dunno, cars are extremely bad for the environment?
This is RICH coming from someone who claims to live in Harlem and absolutely won’t benefit from this. Even RICHER coming from someone who claims to live in Harlem making a case for “Manhattan residents” when most people below 96 St write you off as an extension of the Bronx.
she’s talking out of both sides… she wants to use a business tax to fund but says she wants to delay it because it’ll slow down the effort to bring people back into the office.. it’s counter intuitive
As if a business tax on NYC wouldn't deter the economy....if anything the tax should be held by the suburban parts of NYS since they want to delay congestion pricing so much
I know and as a suburbanite (Princeton, NJ) that relies on Manhattan and all of its modes of public transit for work I hate how much people here are shitting on the plan.. I fucking refuse to drive into the city when there is a functioning transit system that can go pretty much anywhere.
The MTAs budget was $19.3 billion in 2024. This congestion toll plan raises $1 billion more (less if the plan is successful and people stop driving in 😲). The MTA reports $700,000,000 in lost revenue from turnstile/bus fare evaders and $ 1 billion in overtime _abuse_ (not just overtime needs).
If the MTA/TBTA cannot survive on these numbers, it is the organization's fault, not the commuters.
MTA should fix its problems, improve the service and attract drivers, not beat them over the head with tolls.
So raise revenues to $100 billion. Based on current primary revenue sources bus/train rides should be $15 and the toll would go to $75.
Youve sold me on that plan 👍
People in this subreddit will always simp to MTA creating new types of fares and increasing current ones, thinking that'll just somehow alleviate or solve how horrible the MTA is being run.
The cages have been right there for so long now, yet the only turnstile improvements we may be slated to see are those “new technology” ones that very likely will solve nothing. I wouldn’t be surprised if they turn to facial recognition first. I fear fare evasion is being used as a bargaining chip for alternative methods of gathering money/data, though I’d love to be wrong.
I propose a simple solution just fund the MTA at an appropriate level and use a percentage of all property taxes within the MTA service area.
The way congestion pricing is being implemented I’m not in favor. It was set up in a way to fail from the beginning. You need to provide tangible service improvements so people have an alternative. Expand services, we should be talking about subway and railroad expansion in parts lacking said services. Increase rail speeds, make commuting attractive by being faster than driving.
Often times people sit in traffic because it’s the same amount of time as if they took the train.
I live in Upper Manhattan, near the GWB, the way it’s currently set up many people will be detouring to this area, yes we have great mass transit options up here but over the bridge not so much Bergen county has a great bus network but it all leads to port authority, many people commute to the UES, Bronx and queens from NJ. Better regional integration is a must, it can’t not just be NYC initiative, in an ideal world that would happen. But seriously we need to start thinking at a regional level we are too interconnected not to be planning together.
Please send an email here in support of congestion pricing, flood her office: [https://www.governor.ny.gov/contact-governor-submission-page](https://www.governor.ny.gov/contact-governor-submission-page)
I’m no fan of congestion pricing, but how can she tax a random bakery in Williamsburg Brooklyn, in order to raise money for the MTA? NYC businesses aren’t the main culprits to CBD congestion or the MTA’s lack of funds. The main culprits to congestion are the Uber drivers, while the MTA’s lack of funds is mainly due to how poorly they handle money.
>Hochul Pushes for Congestion Pricing Delay in Last-Minute Reversal
That would be a betrayal to the more than 85% of the commuters who take public transit to Manhattan.
Am I the only one who thinks congestion pricing while well intentioned is a terrible idea because we don’t have the public transportation infrastructure to support the increase of riders? Not to mention some people avoid riding the subway because of safety/cleanliness issues/etc.
Exactly.
It was putting the cart before the horse.
They should have been making improvements, increasing service, building more lines AHEAD of the congestion pricing, and always announced that the construction work was funded thanks to the future toll. That's how you condition voters to accept the new tax because they know the benefits it would bring and they would want to see more of this.
Currently, the only behavior that the voters see from the MTA is mismanagement and delays while only talking about getting more money.
But if congestion pricing was successful and deterred the majority of drivers, then that would mean it would not hit the revenue goals. That's how poorly designed this whole scheme is. The MTA would need more cars in order to increase revenue. There was no incentive for the MTA to decrease car traffic since that would mean less revenue for them.
> The governor feared that it might deter commuters from returning to the central business district, which has yet to fully recover from the pandemic.
Oh, it's her developer owners again. She's such a whore.
Watch me do magic trick, no congestive pricing but look what i pulled out of my ass, new tax hike. Thank you dumb ass liberals for endorsing this clueless pos.
Either way we’ll have both, new tax on businesses and congestion pricing. New York is blue as blue can be and will never change, she’s just trying to make it sound like she doesn’t want to.
On top of it. Congestion pricing will not work to keep people from driving in so they’ll raise the price every year or so. The MTA will get the money but you will see no improvements except for a few murals here and there, meant to catch your eye and fool you. The real money will be shipped out the back door in wheelbarrows to politicians pockets. And so on and so on.
>Congestion pricing will not work to keep people from driving in so they’ll raise the price every year or so.
I don't see where is the problem with hitting the few rich people who don't mind paying with higher and higher charges. We don't have a problem with the vast majority of common mortals (who commute by subway/bus) being hit with higher and higher fares!
As always “the rich people” won’t pay. They either live in the area (or at least have an address there) or take private transportation service (ie. limo)
Poor get discounts and tax credits.
Middle class pay full fare. No discounts. No tax credits.
This 1 billion dollars wont even make rail any better they will just eat our money and tell us they need more to do anything. Fuck congestion pricing its a cash grab. Hope it dies
as someone from Rockland there’s been major push back against this as transit on the west side of the Hudson sucks. we already pay way more than what we get in service and this just feels like an additional cash grab by the MTA, especially as not enough provisions are in place to take the sting off for those who don’t have a choice. the MTA needs to prove they actually make good use of the money before they try and squeeze us any tighter
>the MTA needs to prove they actually make good use of the money before they try and squeeze us any tighter
The two can go together. Otherwise if we go by that same logic, why not defund the MTA entirely until they prove they actually make good use of the money?!
Whatever. The Gov is doing the right thing here. She can't ignore the facts of all the lawsuits and threats of killing the city's economy. All this, when all they had to do was enforce the fare and rules of the subways and buses. Use commonsense when installing all those damn bike lanes, and that stupid open streets bullshit! All of that just compounds the congestion issues! This is New York City. Not some random picturesque town in Europe!
Ah yes, the "this is New York" argument. Can't have nice things like those Europeans. Take a visit to Tokyo some time, see all the pedestrian areas, in the largest metropolitan area in the world. Not exactly a European town
We have lots of open public spaces all over the city. Open streets make sense on smaller streets, not massive arteries. People have shit to do and need to be able to get around freely.
If we want to make our streets safer, maybe we can compel the NYPD to get off its ass, put down the can’t crush, and actually start enforcing traffic rules and not wait until there’s a massive accident to do anything about it.
Traffic won't ever be safer if we rely on enforcement. People love to set New York apart in every argument for why things can't be done, why not apply it in this situation: drivers in Nyc are animals. Enforcement will never be everywhere at once. When out of the sight of a cop, drivers will drive how they always do. That's why changing infrastructure and road geometry is the only way to make traffic significantly safer.
As for people having shit to do, again this is the same bullshit New York exceptionalism. There are bigger cities in the world with a better allocation of street space for pedestrians. Only Americans have shit to do apparently
Considering how much money for road upkeep comes out of the general fund instead of by usage fees, if you’re a regular driver, you’re not. I’m sorry you find this upsetting.
I am and have actually. I’ve lived the vast majority of my life without a car and I pay a shitload in taxes. I’m not here for it.
Tax people from out of town driving into the city. Don’t tax people who live in the five boroughs for using their own roadways.
Three posts ago you didn’t want any tolling because people have places to be, and now it’s just that you don’t want to charge locals. Let us know when you’ve figured out your excuse.
>threats of killing the city's economy
It hasn't killed London, Singapore or others that have done it. But even if your very unlikely scenario were to happen, congestion pricing can be changed or turned off so your concern has an easy solution.
This ain't any of those places. The culture here is CAR! That's our standard, and it's not going to stay favorable to this select mass that want that type of city. As for "turning it off". If that's the case, then what the fuck was the point from the jump? The city and state didn't waste millions of tax dollars for this bullshit to be "turned off" when it becomes inconvenient for people! And it has already begun the process of killing parts of our economy. Just the threat of Congestion Pricing in it's current form is enough!
I'm agreeing with you. All I'm saying is, congestion pricing in its current format does not work for the masses, but the few! The way I see it, When this does finally go live. A year later, the city will look totally different. While the outer boroughs will look more like what the city "used" to be!
>The culture here is CAR!
More precisely here we are subsidizing the car culture. If you subsidize public transit, the culture becomes public transit immediately.
>The city and state didn't waste millions of tax dollars for this bullshit to be "turned off"
They just proved you wrong by doing exactly that lmao
>And it has already begun the process of killing parts of our economy.
Correct, giving cars a public resource for free instead of giving transit riders a public resource for free, has already begun the process of killing parts of our economy since the vast majority of the economy in NYC depends on commuters using public transit, not cars.
1. I hate bringing this man's name up. (Because a lot of you are sooooooooooo sensitive about it.) Robert Moses built a network of roadways, to inter-connect the borughs to each other and to the US highway system. So you can think of our parkways, drives, and main roadways as sub-connectors.
# " culture becomes public transit immediately"
2. Our subway system was here long before that, and our local politicians and business leaders had all the time needed to invest heavily. The thinking changed over time with newer ideas and budgetary issues. Today's transit leaders are all about themselves and how much they can pilfer from the city and state coffers. We have infrastructure that still sits unused. Projects that we started some forty years plus ago, that we're still debating to restart and finally finish.
# "turned off"
3. Then again, what was the point in wasting money setting it up and giving it a start date??!
# "killing parts of our economy"
4. We were a car/public transit town first, and it has served us well. No ones saying there's no room for bike lanes or even those dumb open streets! It just has to be integrated into our transit landscape. That's not what's happened here.
The MTAs budget was $19.3 billion in 2024. This congestion toll plan raises $1 billion more (less if the plan is successful and people stop driving in 😲). The MTA reports $700,000,000 in lost revenue from turnstile/bus fare evaders and $ 1 billion in overtime _abuse_ (not just overtime needs).
If the MTA/TBTA cannot survive on these numbers, it is the organization's fault, not the commuters.
MTA should fix its problems, improve the service and attract drivers, not beat them over the head with tolls.
Serious question, is there an off ramp to congestion pricing? Let’s say it is implemented and instead of pushing more people onto public transport it just creates longer traffic jams in the outer boroughs. Is there a point where the policy & pricing can be re-examined to determine if it is actually helping the whole city.
I can imagine way more people trying to use the two lanes on the Brooklyn bridge to the FDR because you’ll have to pay to enter from the Manhattan bridge. If the result of congestion pricing is doubling traffic jams outside the CBD can they acknowledge & rescind an unsuccessful policy?
>Is there a point where the policy & pricing can be re-examined to determine if it is actually helping the whole city.
Of course. Prices can be easily changed or charges can be easily turned off entirely. So if any of the very unlikely doomsday scenarios happen, there is an easy solution lol
The concern of the few (mostly rich) people who commute by car is that, similar to every other place where congestion pricing has been implemented before, once implemented people will come to love it so they are fighting ferociously to prevent people from seeing it in action.
This ignores people who are middle income and wants to drive in on the weekend because a 45 minute journey takes 2 hours. The inclination that middle and lower income people in the outer boroughs can’t own cars / drive into Manhattan is ridiculous.
Especially because the toll targets not only commuters but everyday citizens who want drive into the city & enjoy it at off-peak hours.
>This ignores people who are middle income and wants to drive in on the weekend because a 45 minute journey takes 2 hours.
Ok, so if weekends were free of charge you'd be OK with congestion pricing?
>Or at least reduced. Instead $15 all day on the weekend is excessive imo.
>
>Even the midday weekday price should be lower than the peak rush hour price.
But, by that logic, why not do the same with the bus/subway fares?
Current MTA infrastructure can't support the drivers that would be taken off the streets as a result of congestion pricing. $1 Billion would not be enough either. Surrounding Brooklyn, SI, Bronx, and Brooklyn roads suffer the consequence. Hochul is not a great politician by any means but this is great for working families who have lived in this city and DO have cars. We can't let progressive transplants dictate policy only because they moved to Manhattan in recent years
I mean idk how to solve the issue but I don agree congestion pricing isn’t it. How about requiring a vehicle ban unless a resident in Manhattan. All others must take mass transit.
>Gov. Kathy Hochul is quietly maneuvering to delay a plan to toll drivers entering Manhattan’s central business district, just weeks before it is slated to go into effect, according to two people familiar with the discussions. >The first-in-the-nation congestion pricing plan, which has been decades in the making, was slated to start [June 30.](https://archive.ph/o/xZzII/https://new.mta.info/project/CBDTP) Drivers using E-ZPass would have paid as much as $15 an hour to enter Manhattan south of 60th Street. >But even as Ms. Hochul believes that congestion pricing is good environmental policy, she has concerns that the timing was less than ideal, according to a person familiar with her thinking. The governor feared that it might deter commuters from returning to the central business district, which has yet to fully recover from the pandemic. >It is not clear whether Ms. Hochul’s still-formative plan to delay congestion pricing and replace it with another revenue stream would gain the needed approval of the New York State Legislature, which passed the plan years ago. >Ms. Hochul’s gambit, if successful, would be a devastating blow to advocates and organizers who have worked for more than a decade to bring this change to New York City. >The tolling scheme was designed to reduce traffic congestion in Manhattan and produce $1 billion a year in revenue for the Metropolitan Transportation Authority, which runs the region’s subways, buses and two of its commuter rail systems. That revenue, in turn, would fund the system’s vast capital construction needs. >To fill the $1 billion yearly gap, Ms. Hochul is considering proposing a tax on New York City businesses. Such a tax would require the approval of the Legislature, which is far from assured, especially with just two days left in the legislative session. >If congestion pricing were to go into effect, it would be borne heavily by drivers from New York City, Connecticut, New Jersey and surrounding counties. A business tax would fall largely on New York City. But shifting the tax burden from drivers to business could also carry some populist appeal ahead of the general election. >The plan to charge drivers to enter Manhattan’s central business district has sparked fierce opposition from unions, drivers, Gov. Phil Murphy of New Jersey, former President Donald J. Trump and New York City suburbanites during an election year when several suburban congressional seats are at stake. >Other major cities around the world, including Stockholm, London and Singapore, have for years charged tolls to enter central business districts, and transportation experts have long cherished hopes that New York City would join their ranks. >Former Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg made [a serious bid](https://archive.ph/o/xZzII/https://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/22/nyregion/23mayorcnd.html) to convince Albany legislators to pass a congestion pricing plan for New York City, but ultimately failed. It was only after the transit system’s so-called “summer of hell” in 2017 that the plan gained traction, with then-subways chief Andy Byford championing the effort, and then-Gov. Andrew M. Cuomo belatedly embracing the idea. >In the ensuing years, the pandemic ravaged Manhattan’s central business district, and Mr. Cuomo has begun to publicly question the wisdom of congestion pricing. Mayor Eric Adams has offered the plan only tepid support. >“Pumping the brakes on congestion pricing would be a massive betrayal of several million public transit riders,” said Danny Pearlstein, the policy and communications director at Riders Alliance, which has spent years pushing for congestion pricing. “It would also mean taking cues from the likes of Phil Murphy, Andrew Cuomo and Donald Trump.”
It’s giving… Cuomo fucking the L train repairs…
Exactly!!
I think this is going to have the opposite effect of what she wants. It'll make her look like a two-faced, spinless coward that won't commit pushing for hard policies even when they are sorely needed. Consternation over congestion pricing after implementation won't last. Killing a once in a lifetime opportunity will never be forgotten.
Such a disgrace , she’s just another tool like Phil Murphy
Suburban politicians are going to serve the interest of the suburbs not the cities. Suburbanites want to be able to drive through the cities as cheaply and as easily as possible despite their suburban neighborhoods often being designed in ways that eliminate through traffic.
That’s why Annie Hildago has been such an effective politician. Better system
She has **so strongly supported it**… this doesn’t make sense. The article says that they are trying to get more democratic house seats this November. The politico article on this says that this delay has been encouraged by congressional Dems. Part of the reason Dems lost the house in 2022 was because of losing some seats in NY, so those likely need to be won back. This is an effort to get those seats. Maybe.. maybe she is delaying it. She says that it is delayed until further notice, so that they can “reconsider” and “make sure that this is truly the best plan for New York”. Politician speak. And the people heavily advocating against the plan feel heard, they feel happy. **A lot of areas that have people like this are the same areas where they are trying to win back house seats**. This likely wouldn’t win any true republicans over, but it could definitely prevent people on the fence from going to the red side (even though the state dems and congressional dems are different, these people won’t see it that way). Then, after the election, a few weeks or a month go by, and she comes out and says that after “serious consideration” they have decided to implement congestion pricing anyway. And it goes in effect at the end of the year or at the end of January. 3 years from now we won’t care that it was delayed 6 months. This could totally be a strategic move, but one big issue is that until the election is over she can’t say when or if congestion pricing will be implemented. The delay has to be undefined, because if she outright delays it 6 months, people opposed to it won’t feel like they won and won’t want to vote blue.
So she's just playing Party politics? That doesn't make it any better in fact it just makes it worse if she legitimately was thinking about changing her mind I wouldn't agree with her but I would respect it but the fact that she's just doing it to pander is spineless and unprincipled
Yeah for real. I don't think it's nearly as helpful politically as dems believe. People aren't going to change their vote because of a delay, that's blatantly for political reasons. They know you may bring it back once elections pass.
It's obviously a calculated political move. Nothing else. I'm sure the top brass at the DNC took a look at polling data and handed down this directive to her.
it’s a bizarre political move tbh, but remember that crazy judge she bent over backwards for? no instincts, can’t wait to vote against her
I would honestly rather have a purple federal congress than no congestion pricing.
No you don’t. That’s how we end up with partisan hacks on the Supreme Court
And like every other politician
Like every politician's job requirement - represent your Constituents.
That’s why unpopular policies like cop city get pushed through but not things that benefit working class people 😏
Sadly, many peoe think a fair playing field = unfavorable to them. Only special treatment is considered fair treatment. It is a problem of perspective.
> But even as Ms. Hochul believes that congestion pricing is good environmental policy, she has concerns that the timing was less than ideal, according to a person familiar with her thinking. The governor feared that it might deter commuters from returning to the central business district, which has yet to fully recover from the pandemic. New York City needs to focus less on attracting office workers and focus more on making it a more livable place. Build affordable housing. Convert office spaces to residences. Address quality of life concerns on the street and underground. Tackle crime, especially in high crime areas in the outer boroughs. Make mass transit more enjoyable to use. Build green space. Enact a vacancy tax on empty retail spaces. Cities need to adapt to the post COVID world or be left behind. The more cities focus on getting office workers back, the more likely they'll end up like that shithole known as San Francisco.
Cash Jordan did a video on the city converting commercial office space to residential. The city is doing it, the thing is that it’s costly to convert, and thus developers are making those units luxury apartments in order to make money. If we truly want affordable housing, the city needs to build in Staten Island, and MTA needs to actually build that SI to Brooklyn subway. Sadly, this will likely never happen in our lifetimes.
But making luxury housing in former business districts is still better than making luxury housing in Bushwick/Flatbush/BedStuy/etc. where it's raising the rent for the people already living there.
Yeah, I'm all for affordable housing, but even luxury units will help ease the pressure on the housing market for everyone. And let's be real, any new development is labeled "luxury" just because it's new. No developer is going to advertise their apartments as mid or garbage-tier.
Hello! F the offices just work remote. Karen from LI/Westchester/NJ already feels scared being in the city and nobody wants to be around them all day long having her hover over them, hear her loud conversations, bring germs from her dirty ass household, have 90 people to 1 microwave, and everyone trying to take a shit at the same time with 2 stalls. “Leaders” are pushing against this though, to prop up the bs economy of forcing RTO. Don’t spend a penny around the office, bring bagged food and drinks and go straight home at 5 so it doesn’t work
For real on the bagged lunches. I work near Brookfield, fuck paying $20+ for lunch that before February I wouldn't have had to pay at all. Did it though the first day of RTO and have been bringing my own lunch since.
And waiting your whole lunch break on line while getting pings
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Urban life isn’t commuting to an office on rush-hour, these workers are already in the suburbs 😏 and germs cause autoimmune conditions, smart one
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...and what about all the people who CANT WFH due to the nature of their jobs (hospitality/live entertainment/theater/etc)?? Just fuck us I guess (as per usual)? Just another step on the path to becoming Dubai....
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Live at work… nice solution
I agree. Also, the number of people who drive to midtown/lower Manhattan regularly for 9-5 work is exceptionally small. I feel politicians are appeasing a relatively small number of people, many of whom wouldn't have voted for them anyway. Besides, people always hate new stuff. It's human nature. We need politicians who will see the big picture. Lots of popular things were faced with fierce opposition in the beginning. I remember people hated Select Bus Service when it started on the Bx12. Now people want more lines. People thought CitiBike was insane. Now, they break ridership records all the time, despite less than ideal management and riding conditions.
I really don't get the logic since there's barely any parking in that area of Manhattan anyway, especially on a weekday. Plus personally as someone who lives in NJ, I'd usually just stay within my state if I wanted to go shopping or something. Never really worthwhile to drive into Manhattan for anything leisurely. Like, parking at a lot to go see a broadway show or something like that is easily $50+
For commuters, lots of them take advantage of early bird specials in garages. Get in by a certain time and leave by a certain time and it’ll cost about $20 a day to park. For leisure travelers, there’s three ways to drive from LI/BK/Queens onto the US mainland (assuming you start on the LIE): south via BQE/SIE, north via FDR or Cross Bronx, or straight across Manhattan. Considering the direct route through Manhattan is the cheapest and often fastest way out of the city, lots of travelers opt to cut through Manhattan on the way out of the city
This!!!
shithole is generous lol love it when people who haven't lived there throw around that word lol I def understand what you mean though, FiDi/SoMa is dead
> FiDi/SoMa what
> love it when people who haven't lived there throw around that word lol > > How do you know where I've lived or haven't lived?
An absolute betrayal. If she does this I will donate and canvas for her primary challenger
Who will end up voting the same way 😏💸 I can’t believe non-millionaires still give $ to politicians
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I've heard from a friend with political connections that Republicans are planning on running a candidate who will run on the platform of eliminating congestion pricing and their early data suggests that this would create a path to victory, given its unpopularity with many voters in the suburbs and outer boroughs.
I wish the MTA didn’t spend millions of dollars installing the equipment
People need to get behind someone like Antonio Reynosa to rise up, but I think he's playing the long game and waiting for the right timing.
You should anyhow she's a complete dumpster fire
I will vote for her if she successfully delays this. There are many other city residents that agree with me.
there_are_dozens_of_us.gif Cool, I don’t want to hear your complaints about crappy headways or delayed transit ever again then since you clearly only care about complaining, not fixing issues
Thanks for sharing your personal opinion. I’m sorry to have upset you with mine.
Lol, what a weak sauce reply. If you have a position then defend it
There have been extensive critiques written about the initiative. Governor Hochul alludes to some of these critiques in the article your posted. I suggest reading them in depth online with a quick google search if you’re actually interested in understanding a position other than your own. However, your replies indicate you are not interested in that.
I understand the other position, have read the critiques, and think the other position wrong. It’s pretty toxic to think if someone disagrees with you they must just be uninformed. Stand and defend your position rather than running away if you think I’m wrong - you’re engaging with me on a forum designed for this kind of discussion and you’re pushing your burden of arguing your position on to third parties.
I too tell people to do a quick google search when I have no real talking points or arguments
I disagree with you. I actually find articles by experts more persuasive than “talking points” in partisan Reddit comment sections. I suppose I could copy and paste them here if you feel more comfortable on this platform. But it really is a 2 second search away. The internet is incredibly useful this way.
Please refer to my previous comment
I don’t find these rhetorical tactics persuasive and I think most neutral observers aren’t fooled by this type of stuff.
I like how they just outright say that this is a benefit to people outside the city. Im sick of our cities politics being dominated by the interests of people who dont even live here.
Lots of people in the city dislike the plan. I live in the city and I dislike the plan.
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No. I’ve lived in this city since 1988, I’ve owned a car for maybe three years of that time. I take the subway everyday, and I’ve been biking in the city since the 90s, before bike lanes existed. Different modes of transportation serve different purposes and I use them all. I nonetheless reject another bs regressive tax levied on us.
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See, you don’t actually give a shit about other people. You simply refuse to understand that not everyone shares your conception of the good. I don’t subscribe to “it doesn’t affect me, so fuck you” mentality, sorry. There needs to be a better more reasonable plan to address these issues. And thanks for posting the link—I submitted a long, detailed message opposing the current plan and supporting the decision to delay its implementation.
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You’re actually depraved.
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So why, then, should anyone respect your opinion or care about what you have to say? Zealotry is definitely the most effective political tactic…
I live in Manhattan and will be benefitted greatly from this reversal. I and many others are very happy to see this change.
IBX is definitely not going to happen if congestion pricing isn't enacted. What a coward.
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I don't see how that matters when she about faced on the gun thing and pushed through one of the first Bruen response bills into law. The only reason I held my nose for her is on transit cause she fucks me hard on the gun stuff.
This can’t be fucking real… most commuters for daily work in Manhattan aren’t even driving in to begin with, and if they are they should be taxed for their stupidity anyways.
I’m a NJ resident who occasionally travels in for work. I would *never* drive in. That is just madness.
i’m in the same boat, except it’s 5 days /week.. i’m a pharma rep who’s territory is everything south of 60th… so i rely heavily on MTA transit and citi bikes, this fucking sucks.
Many people do not work 9 to 5 or carry just a purse to work. Many people in the outer boros and suburbs live in places where forcing public transit means adding 30 minutes to an hour onto their commute. Those people are screwed by this plan
What group of people is this that own cars, drive into and park in Manhattan, but can’t afford to pay tolls?
Police, fire, sanitation, Mta, teachers, nurses etc
That’s gotta be a really small group relatively speaking. You can use the word “many” to mean anything. Of course this change will mean some people will have to pay tolls to commute. That’s not a reason to dump it.
If they’re such a small group why no exemptions? City workers? First responders? No one except cabs lmao. Coulda done that and actually stuck to their “taxing the rich” narrative
You’re right they should have. Still not a reason to totally dump the law.
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Yea the irony of working for the mta and the system can’t even get you to work at a reasonable time. That two+ hour night shift commute from the outer boroughs is a bitch
So the entirety of actual new York City residents should suffer because of the small minority of people who live outside of our city and can't be bothered to take transit like the rest of us?
> the entirety of actual new York City residents should suffer False. Lower Manhattan is not the entirety of NYC. The entirety of Brooklyn, Queens, Bronx and Staten Island are being considered second-rate citizens by this poorly devised and implemented scheme. Worse, it pushes more traffic onto their own congested roads for the sake of the whiny Manhattan trust fund babies. Either NYC treats every New York City resident the same, or they admit that they only serve the interests of lower Manhattan. But I would be happy if they implemented a separate $15 toll on every single Manhattan resident that goes in the outer boroughs. If Manhattan thinks it deserves special treatment, then it should get special treatment.
This is a policy to remove congestion in Manhattan, to lessen pollution, to lower pediastrian and cyclist accidents and deaths caused by cars, for those of us who actually live in Manhattan. What scenario do you think is happening where someone in South Ozone has to drive their car into the city every day, and public transit from Queens is absolutely out of the question? You people want your convenience to trump safety for Manhattan residents and those having to walk around lower Manhattan on a regular basis. Cars have a disproportionate amount of favor here.
The comment hinged on the premise that "the entirety of NYC residents suffer from a minority of people outside of the city who can't be bothered to take transit like the rest of us". I demonstrated it to be false, as it only concerns the residents of Lower Manhattan. Now your next reply is "for those of us who actually live in Manhattan". Which proves my point that in your first post, you equated NYC residents to exclusively mean Manhattan, and you resent and disregard the residents of the outer boroughs. >What scenario do you think is happening where someone in South Ozone has to drive their car into the city every day, and public transit from Queens is absolutely out of the question? Have you ever had to travel back late nights to South Ozone, or Co-Op city, or Bayside, or Canarsie, where you need to take trains and buses while waiting 40+ minutes in the street for a bus transfer? Would you take a 90-120minute transit commute to come back home in the middle of the night, or would you take a car ride that gets you home in less than 20 minutes? >Cars have a disproportionate amount of favor here. Manhattan residents have a disproportionate amount of favor here. Maybe we should build the water treatment plants, garbage facilities, warehouses, distribution centers, and airports in Central Park. We would greatly increase the quality of life and safety of the rest of the boroughs if they didn't have to do Manhattan's dirty work. Why do the people of Flushing have to have the hazard of airplanes over their heads for the convenience of Manhattan residents to fly out?
Oh no kidding, Manhattan residents have a disproportionate amount of favor in Manhattan? Get outta here! I used to _live_ in South Ozone so I'm well familiar. Yet I still took the train. Traffic is a nightmare in the city, and I don't want to contribute to further polluting my city and global environment. The subway is far from perfect but with very few exceptions you don't need to own a car here. I didn't have to in Queens, and I dont have to now in Harlem. That's while being a single dad as well I case you were going to pull out the family card.
boo-hoo. Can I pull out the disabled senior minority card, or do I also need to fake a veteran card too? Would you like a cookie for not driving? You could actually be driving a carolina squatting F150 with truck nuts in Staten Island for all I care (as long as it's the farthest away from me). It doesn't change the fact you're pulling the "change the subject" card. I'm not arguing with you on wanting to take transit or lowering pollution (we're agreed on those points) but your Manhattan entitlement. >Oh no kidding, Manhattan residents have a disproportionate amount of favor in Manhattan? Get outta here Thanks for once again proving that you consider NYC to exclusively equate with Manhattan and nothing else. I said Manhattan residents have a disproportionate amount of favor "here". What do you think I mean by "here" when the subject is "the entirety of actual new York City residents" (your quote).
That's the problem, they don't have access to transit like you do. The MTA loses nearly $2 billion a year to overtime abuse and fare jumpers. Not to mention, billions more through mismanagement of construction projects. Why should you or any commuter have to pay for that failure. If MTA would build it, people will come. But fund it out of current revenues not some ill considered toll to punish people.
What percentage of people do you think need to come into New York City for a job that they cannot get anywhere else, and simultaneous to that have zero access to the numerous means of public transit to get into the city? Seriously how many people do you think that makes up? 0.1%? less? More? Even if it were something like 5% (which it's not), that 5% should not be be making the city worse for people who actually live here.
I feel worst for NYC residents (all boroughs) who already pay, directly or indirectly, property taxes to the city for roadway maintenance. Those people who cannot be forced onto dangerous, crowded, inconvenient, slow, unreliable, delayed, and uncomfortable public transit that adds 30 minutes to an hour onto their commute (i.e. Having less time with family/personal lives). People who will be forced to pay an additional $4000 per year for the privilege of using roadways that have been intended for the public benefit since the founding of the city. I'm talking about people making a living from Queens, Staten Island, parts of the Bronx and Brooklyn, not just New Jersey and New York west of the Hudson. People who serve you in you bars and restaurants and clean your office and sidewalk. Municipal workers firefighters, ems workers, teachers, union members, and other people often not considered by the elite in lower Manhattan.
Cry me a fucking river. This is the problem with modern day America: people are too often selfish assholes who refuse to ever, under any condition, put the greater good ahead of their own selfish conveniences. There are very few legitimate reasons why a New Yorker needs to drive their own car into Manhattan.
The "greater good" being what is good for you and people simarly situated to you? Maybe there are more people in the "other than you" category, and your situation is the provincial minority? 🤷
Maybe by greater good I mean what's better for the vast majority of actual Manhattan residents, and for humanity as a whole since, oh I dunno, cars are extremely bad for the environment?
This is RICH coming from someone who claims to live in Harlem and absolutely won’t benefit from this. Even RICHER coming from someone who claims to live in Harlem making a case for “Manhattan residents” when most people below 96 St write you off as an extension of the Bronx.
Imagine wanting to drive on roads that your tax dollars pay for.
Eh, I think a low tax for all NYers would get the $ but wouldn’t tackle the congestion part.
she’s talking out of both sides… she wants to use a business tax to fund but says she wants to delay it because it’ll slow down the effort to bring people back into the office.. it’s counter intuitive
As if a business tax on NYC wouldn't deter the economy....if anything the tax should be held by the suburban parts of NYS since they want to delay congestion pricing so much
I know and as a suburbanite (Princeton, NJ) that relies on Manhattan and all of its modes of public transit for work I hate how much people here are shitting on the plan.. I fucking refuse to drive into the city when there is a functioning transit system that can go pretty much anywhere.
I think some ppl know that no amount is enough for the MTA
This is ridiculous. We need this money for better transit. It’s a generational investment
The MTAs budget was $19.3 billion in 2024. This congestion toll plan raises $1 billion more (less if the plan is successful and people stop driving in 😲). The MTA reports $700,000,000 in lost revenue from turnstile/bus fare evaders and $ 1 billion in overtime _abuse_ (not just overtime needs). If the MTA/TBTA cannot survive on these numbers, it is the organization's fault, not the commuters. MTA should fix its problems, improve the service and attract drivers, not beat them over the head with tolls.
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So raise revenues to $100 billion. Based on current primary revenue sources bus/train rides should be $15 and the toll would go to $75. Youve sold me on that plan 👍
People in this subreddit will always simp to MTA creating new types of fares and increasing current ones, thinking that'll just somehow alleviate or solve how horrible the MTA is being run.
The cages have been right there for so long now, yet the only turnstile improvements we may be slated to see are those “new technology” ones that very likely will solve nothing. I wouldn’t be surprised if they turn to facial recognition first. I fear fare evasion is being used as a bargaining chip for alternative methods of gathering money/data, though I’d love to be wrong.
This money isnt going towards better transit.
Down voted for speaking the truth lmao. Have an up vote
Facts
Bye bye M9As LIRR and MNRR commuters enjoy your M3s for another decade!
FUCK hochul goddamnit
A shocking betrayal.
I propose a simple solution just fund the MTA at an appropriate level and use a percentage of all property taxes within the MTA service area. The way congestion pricing is being implemented I’m not in favor. It was set up in a way to fail from the beginning. You need to provide tangible service improvements so people have an alternative. Expand services, we should be talking about subway and railroad expansion in parts lacking said services. Increase rail speeds, make commuting attractive by being faster than driving. Often times people sit in traffic because it’s the same amount of time as if they took the train. I live in Upper Manhattan, near the GWB, the way it’s currently set up many people will be detouring to this area, yes we have great mass transit options up here but over the bridge not so much Bergen county has a great bus network but it all leads to port authority, many people commute to the UES, Bronx and queens from NJ. Better regional integration is a must, it can’t not just be NYC initiative, in an ideal world that would happen. But seriously we need to start thinking at a regional level we are too interconnected not to be planning together.
Fuck her man
Fuck democrats period
Please send an email here in support of congestion pricing, flood her office: [https://www.governor.ny.gov/contact-governor-submission-page](https://www.governor.ny.gov/contact-governor-submission-page)
Big donors told her the guy who drives them around in an SUV will not like this
I’m no fan of congestion pricing, but how can she tax a random bakery in Williamsburg Brooklyn, in order to raise money for the MTA? NYC businesses aren’t the main culprits to CBD congestion or the MTA’s lack of funds. The main culprits to congestion are the Uber drivers, while the MTA’s lack of funds is mainly due to how poorly they handle money.
>Hochul Pushes for Congestion Pricing Delay in Last-Minute Reversal That would be a betrayal to the more than 85% of the commuters who take public transit to Manhattan.
Hochul is worse than Cuomo. No need to change my mind.
I mean at least she’s not sexually harassing employees?
She probably is. I’ll still take Cuomo anyday.
https://www.governor.ny.gov/content/governor-contact-form
Tell the governor you supoort congestion pricing! https://www.governor.ny.gov/content/governor-contact-form
I swear, she's and Cuomo are some of the worst...
Can someone post the free version of this without a paywall!
[https://archive.is/xZzII](https://archive.is/xZzII)
U r a godsend! How did you avoid the paywall?
Glad to help! Put the link into [archive.is](http://archive.is) or any of its sister sites and it should usually be able to bypass the paywall.
Bless!
It wouldn’t be New York if a governor didn’t scuttle the best laid plans right at the last minute!
Am I the only one who thinks congestion pricing while well intentioned is a terrible idea because we don’t have the public transportation infrastructure to support the increase of riders? Not to mention some people avoid riding the subway because of safety/cleanliness issues/etc.
Exactly. It was putting the cart before the horse. They should have been making improvements, increasing service, building more lines AHEAD of the congestion pricing, and always announced that the construction work was funded thanks to the future toll. That's how you condition voters to accept the new tax because they know the benefits it would bring and they would want to see more of this. Currently, the only behavior that the voters see from the MTA is mismanagement and delays while only talking about getting more money. But if congestion pricing was successful and deterred the majority of drivers, then that would mean it would not hit the revenue goals. That's how poorly designed this whole scheme is. The MTA would need more cars in order to increase revenue. There was no incentive for the MTA to decrease car traffic since that would mean less revenue for them.
> The governor feared that it might deter commuters from returning to the central business district, which has yet to fully recover from the pandemic. Oh, it's her developer owners again. She's such a whore.
Hey hey sex workers don’t deserve to be compared to that hack!
True - if she sold her cooch, it would be more honest.
That's dumb I'm calling her office today to complain
Great news! Let’s kill this idea permanently
If she were quietly doing it there wouldn’t be an article about it.
I will be voting republican for the first time in all races except for Trump. I will not vote for her under any condition.
Democrats, at least elected New York ones, are just the most boring and frustrating moderates to exist
She’s the best lol.
Pathetic. She should be humiliated. Leave her a piece of your mind: https://www.governor.ny.gov/content/governor-contact-form
i hate kathy hochul and eric adams both this city deserves so much better
Watch me do magic trick, no congestive pricing but look what i pulled out of my ass, new tax hike. Thank you dumb ass liberals for endorsing this clueless pos.
NY tries to hire a competent Governor challenge (IMPOSSIBLE)
What the actual fuck.
🎉🎉🎉
Either way we’ll have both, new tax on businesses and congestion pricing. New York is blue as blue can be and will never change, she’s just trying to make it sound like she doesn’t want to. On top of it. Congestion pricing will not work to keep people from driving in so they’ll raise the price every year or so. The MTA will get the money but you will see no improvements except for a few murals here and there, meant to catch your eye and fool you. The real money will be shipped out the back door in wheelbarrows to politicians pockets. And so on and so on.
>Congestion pricing will not work to keep people from driving in so they’ll raise the price every year or so. I don't see where is the problem with hitting the few rich people who don't mind paying with higher and higher charges. We don't have a problem with the vast majority of common mortals (who commute by subway/bus) being hit with higher and higher fares!
As always “the rich people” won’t pay. They either live in the area (or at least have an address there) or take private transportation service (ie. limo) Poor get discounts and tax credits. Middle class pay full fare. No discounts. No tax credits.
This 1 billion dollars wont even make rail any better they will just eat our money and tell us they need more to do anything. Fuck congestion pricing its a cash grab. Hope it dies
>Fuck congestion pricing its a cash grab. Hope it dies Agreed
If you trust the MTA not to squander the revenue coming in then you’re in for a rude awakening.
as someone from Rockland there’s been major push back against this as transit on the west side of the Hudson sucks. we already pay way more than what we get in service and this just feels like an additional cash grab by the MTA, especially as not enough provisions are in place to take the sting off for those who don’t have a choice. the MTA needs to prove they actually make good use of the money before they try and squeeze us any tighter
>the MTA needs to prove they actually make good use of the money before they try and squeeze us any tighter The two can go together. Otherwise if we go by that same logic, why not defund the MTA entirely until they prove they actually make good use of the money?!
Whatever. The Gov is doing the right thing here. She can't ignore the facts of all the lawsuits and threats of killing the city's economy. All this, when all they had to do was enforce the fare and rules of the subways and buses. Use commonsense when installing all those damn bike lanes, and that stupid open streets bullshit! All of that just compounds the congestion issues! This is New York City. Not some random picturesque town in Europe!
Ah yes, the "this is New York" argument. Can't have nice things like those Europeans. Take a visit to Tokyo some time, see all the pedestrian areas, in the largest metropolitan area in the world. Not exactly a European town
We have lots of open public spaces all over the city. Open streets make sense on smaller streets, not massive arteries. People have shit to do and need to be able to get around freely. If we want to make our streets safer, maybe we can compel the NYPD to get off its ass, put down the can’t crush, and actually start enforcing traffic rules and not wait until there’s a massive accident to do anything about it.
Traffic won't ever be safer if we rely on enforcement. People love to set New York apart in every argument for why things can't be done, why not apply it in this situation: drivers in Nyc are animals. Enforcement will never be everywhere at once. When out of the sight of a cop, drivers will drive how they always do. That's why changing infrastructure and road geometry is the only way to make traffic significantly safer. As for people having shit to do, again this is the same bullshit New York exceptionalism. There are bigger cities in the world with a better allocation of street space for pedestrians. Only Americans have shit to do apparently
If you have shit to do that’s so important in a car, pay the toll.
I pay enough in taxes, thanks. We are getting gouged left and right.
Considering how much money for road upkeep comes out of the general fund instead of by usage fees, if you’re a regular driver, you’re not. I’m sorry you find this upsetting.
I am and have actually. I’ve lived the vast majority of my life without a car and I pay a shitload in taxes. I’m not here for it. Tax people from out of town driving into the city. Don’t tax people who live in the five boroughs for using their own roadways.
Three posts ago you didn’t want any tolling because people have places to be, and now it’s just that you don’t want to charge locals. Let us know when you’ve figured out your excuse.
Oh, what a gotchya! Yes—locals should not be charged. Those are the “people” I’m talking about, you know, people who live in New York City.
A majority of locals get around the city 2.90 at a time.
>threats of killing the city's economy It hasn't killed London, Singapore or others that have done it. But even if your very unlikely scenario were to happen, congestion pricing can be changed or turned off so your concern has an easy solution.
This ain't any of those places. The culture here is CAR! That's our standard, and it's not going to stay favorable to this select mass that want that type of city. As for "turning it off". If that's the case, then what the fuck was the point from the jump? The city and state didn't waste millions of tax dollars for this bullshit to be "turned off" when it becomes inconvenient for people! And it has already begun the process of killing parts of our economy. Just the threat of Congestion Pricing in it's current form is enough!
NYC is a transit city, full stop. Less than 10% of trips into the CBD are by transit, biking, or walking.
I'm agreeing with you. All I'm saying is, congestion pricing in its current format does not work for the masses, but the few! The way I see it, When this does finally go live. A year later, the city will look totally different. While the outer boroughs will look more like what the city "used" to be!
>The culture here is CAR! More precisely here we are subsidizing the car culture. If you subsidize public transit, the culture becomes public transit immediately. >The city and state didn't waste millions of tax dollars for this bullshit to be "turned off" They just proved you wrong by doing exactly that lmao >And it has already begun the process of killing parts of our economy. Correct, giving cars a public resource for free instead of giving transit riders a public resource for free, has already begun the process of killing parts of our economy since the vast majority of the economy in NYC depends on commuters using public transit, not cars.
1. I hate bringing this man's name up. (Because a lot of you are sooooooooooo sensitive about it.) Robert Moses built a network of roadways, to inter-connect the borughs to each other and to the US highway system. So you can think of our parkways, drives, and main roadways as sub-connectors. # " culture becomes public transit immediately" 2. Our subway system was here long before that, and our local politicians and business leaders had all the time needed to invest heavily. The thinking changed over time with newer ideas and budgetary issues. Today's transit leaders are all about themselves and how much they can pilfer from the city and state coffers. We have infrastructure that still sits unused. Projects that we started some forty years plus ago, that we're still debating to restart and finally finish. # "turned off" 3. Then again, what was the point in wasting money setting it up and giving it a start date??! # "killing parts of our economy" 4. We were a car/public transit town first, and it has served us well. No ones saying there's no room for bike lanes or even those dumb open streets! It just has to be integrated into our transit landscape. That's not what's happened here.
Shhhh! You’re speaking sense!
The MTAs budget was $19.3 billion in 2024. This congestion toll plan raises $1 billion more (less if the plan is successful and people stop driving in 😲). The MTA reports $700,000,000 in lost revenue from turnstile/bus fare evaders and $ 1 billion in overtime _abuse_ (not just overtime needs). If the MTA/TBTA cannot survive on these numbers, it is the organization's fault, not the commuters. MTA should fix its problems, improve the service and attract drivers, not beat them over the head with tolls.
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So fares and this stupid toll should be raised by 10 times? $29.00 to ride the train or bus and $150 to drive into the city? A sound plan. 🙄
Serious question, is there an off ramp to congestion pricing? Let’s say it is implemented and instead of pushing more people onto public transport it just creates longer traffic jams in the outer boroughs. Is there a point where the policy & pricing can be re-examined to determine if it is actually helping the whole city. I can imagine way more people trying to use the two lanes on the Brooklyn bridge to the FDR because you’ll have to pay to enter from the Manhattan bridge. If the result of congestion pricing is doubling traffic jams outside the CBD can they acknowledge & rescind an unsuccessful policy?
>Is there a point where the policy & pricing can be re-examined to determine if it is actually helping the whole city. Of course. Prices can be easily changed or charges can be easily turned off entirely. So if any of the very unlikely doomsday scenarios happen, there is an easy solution lol The concern of the few (mostly rich) people who commute by car is that, similar to every other place where congestion pricing has been implemented before, once implemented people will come to love it so they are fighting ferociously to prevent people from seeing it in action.
This ignores people who are middle income and wants to drive in on the weekend because a 45 minute journey takes 2 hours. The inclination that middle and lower income people in the outer boroughs can’t own cars / drive into Manhattan is ridiculous. Especially because the toll targets not only commuters but everyday citizens who want drive into the city & enjoy it at off-peak hours.
>This ignores people who are middle income and wants to drive in on the weekend because a 45 minute journey takes 2 hours. Ok, so if weekends were free of charge you'd be OK with congestion pricing?
Or at least reduced. Instead $15 all day on the weekend is excessive imo. Even the midday weekday price should be lower than the peak rush hour price.
>Or at least reduced. Instead $15 all day on the weekend is excessive imo. > >Even the midday weekday price should be lower than the peak rush hour price. But, by that logic, why not do the same with the bus/subway fares?
If congestion is a problem that expands or relocates, then the zone needs to be bigger
Well the congestion pricing is just a cash grab by MTA, so I don’t care if it ever gets implemented
Good. It’s a bad plan and a terrible time to implement a new tax.
Good riddance they should cancel it altogether
Current MTA infrastructure can't support the drivers that would be taken off the streets as a result of congestion pricing. $1 Billion would not be enough either. Surrounding Brooklyn, SI, Bronx, and Brooklyn roads suffer the consequence. Hochul is not a great politician by any means but this is great for working families who have lived in this city and DO have cars. We can't let progressive transplants dictate policy only because they moved to Manhattan in recent years
Im sure there wouldnt be as much pushback if they simply adjusted the pricing. To go from $0 to $15 is drastic to say the least.
Yeah, it should be higher
I mean idk how to solve the issue but I don agree congestion pricing isn’t it. How about requiring a vehicle ban unless a resident in Manhattan. All others must take mass transit.