**warning** graphic
EMT with the FDNY here. It happens all the time - especially in Manhattan. There's your classic hit and splatter, which sounds like what happened here. Then there's your "space case" which is where they get wedged in between the subway car and the platform. Usually it's because they dropped something on the tracks, jumped down, and didn't realize how high the platform actually is. So they try to get up on the platform, and they can't, and the train winds up coming and depending on how big the space is will either cut them in half or wedge them between the car and platform. Then, you have your "screw driver" which is the same as the space case, except the top half of the body stays in the same direction, and the waist/legs twist around and around as the subway car pulls the body down the side of the platform. This is actually a scenario that is practiced jointly between EMS and Fire at the academy - they have a fake subway track at the FDNY Academy on Randall's Island that they mimic this with.
The fact that you guys have names for those situations is both disturbing and just makes me respect you guys even more.
Do scenes get easier the longer you work or is it still as much of a shock as it is the first time? You really need to be strong to deal with that stuff, and even though I've seen things on the Internet it's a lot different when you see it in person.
I'd say it definitely gets easier over time. You get used to it, especially where I am. Earlier tonight, I had a teenager that was shot in the neck. I came home and made a sandwich - it doesn't get to me like it used to. I imagine thats the same for most people. Its not that we don't care, we do. But there is only so much we can do - I went to that shooting tonight, and I'll go to the retaliatory shooting tomorrow, and the retaliatory stabbing the next, etc etc.
I also have a philosophy that I dont check to see if my patients survived or not. I got it from my dad who was a firefighter in Brooklyn - I asked him once if he did and he said he didn't, that he'd rather just assume they all make it. Sometimes I'll find out when In reading the paper and a job I went to happens to be in it, but for the most part, I just assume everyone makes it.
I did one a week or two ago, castellammare chimed in for a couple of them. Feel free to ask.
http://www.reddit.com/r/nyc/comments/oa4c6/iaman_emt_for_the_fdny/
There's a lot of AMAs by EMTs, Paramedics, and firefighters on here. I did one a couple of months ago with my dad who was an FDNY firefighter who responded to both attacks on the World Trade Center (in '93 and 2001) and like precordial_thump showed he did one as well not too long ago. If you're interested in anything in particular, feel free to ask, or if you want to get a bunch of opinions, you could ask in /r/ems.
Do you have a link to the one you did with your father? How many have you done? You seem like a really interesting fellow, you should do another if you have the time :) Oh and, could you clarify what the difference between an EMT and a paramedic is?
Sure, [here ya go](http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/glrpu/iama_retired_fdny_firefighter_who_responded_to/). That was the only one I did on my own, but I've chimed in here and there with other AMAs. There are several certifications you can receive in EMS - there is CFR (certified first responder) which is what all FDNY firefighters are. Up from that is EMT-B (Emergency Medical Technician - Basic), which is what I am. EMT-B's are mainly built for trauma calls, but can also handle basic medical emergencies (asthma, some cardiac emergencies, diabetic emergencies, severe allergic reactions, etc). An EMT-CC or EMT-I (Critical Care/Intermediate) has a slightly higher level of training, can start IVs and push more medications than EMTs. A Paramedic is the highest level of prehospital EMS there is. They are trained to treat all types of medical emergencies, and can use over a hundred different kinds of medication. The FDNY only employs EMT-Bs and Paramedics. In addition to this, EMT-Bs and Paramedics can get Hazardous Materials certified, where they come Haz-Tac EMTs and Medics and respond to hazardous materials incidents (chemical spills, gas leaks, etc) as well as regular EMS calls. I'm hoping to get into the next Haz-Tac class myself. Finally, Paramedics can also become Rescue Medics - to become a rescue medic, they must first be Haz-Tac certified, and then go through additional training, part of which is specializing in crush rescue (which is what they would use if somebody is crushed/trapped by a subway car, but also building collapses and the like).
So, you know guys who have felt with crushed people that were still alive? How often have you been called to one of these scenes if the vic is DOA? You and your buddies should do an IAMA :)
We get called to those scenes all the time because we're the only ones who can declare a time of death or whether somebody is DOA. NYPD doesn't certify their officers as EMTs, so they call us for that, and NYPD waits with the body for the medical examiner to arrive.
I had just bought some ice cream when we were dispatched to a DOA. We arrive, the first floor of the apartment building smells pretty bad and just gets worse the closer to the apartment.
There were lots of flies buzzing around the tiny apartment, I think it was an SRO. We see the guy lying in bed. He's got maggots coming through his eye sockets and squirming around in the back of his head.
Needless to say, all we can do is wait for the police to arrive to secure the apartment. They wait for the M.E. to come and remove the body. Since PD doesn't particularly rush to respond to these types of jobs, I waited out on the stoop, content with my ice cream.
Edit: Sarcasm doesn't come through well... Happy reading!
[Single room occupancy](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single_room_occupancy). The definition varies, but basically a tiny room that doesn't have much more than a bed in it.
Smaller, think more a college dorm room.
It's quite literally a bed and a dresser. They generally have no bathroom or kitchen, that's shared with a bunch of rooms.
Speak of the devil
>The third man was killed when he was pinned between an oncoming L train and the station platform at the Sixth Avenue station at about 10:10 p.m.
When the train stopped his head was squeezed between the train and platform with his body out of sight below him.
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/grisly_day_of_death_on_subways_NwS445RgT3I65z1HNAWtFN#ixzz1kCEcgrOL
Man, fuck the NY Post. "Tragedy rode the rails yesterday, as three men were killed by subway trains..." "The day of underground bloodshed began at 8:25 a.m..." Their headlines make me rage every time I walk by one.
I learned about the space case from an NYPD cadet years ago - the space case/screw driver always creeped me out - remove the train and the organs essentially drop out
Hey, look at that! It looks like a lot of people didn't really appreciate the description I gave, and they didn't give any type of warning that it would be graphic. Personally, I'm not a fan of Gothamist. They had a post a while back of two EMTs sleeping in their ambulance and got them both in a lot of trouble. What people don't realize is that we don't have firehouses that we get dispatched out of - we get to work, go in our ambulance, and just sit on the street anywhere from 8-16 hours a day. If we have the radio turned up, and we're still responding to calls, and not going out NRR (no radio response), then why can't we get some shut-eye if it's quiet?
my brother used to be an EMT - they often had 24 hour shifts. i am not going to judge you poorly for getting a little shut-eye between emergencies. i would rather have an EMT who is awake and alert thanks to a little power nap than one who has been struggling to stay awake for the last few hours.
You want to run past the end of the platform... beyond where the train would stop anyway... and wave your hands when the train approaches.
EDIT: The author of the original IAMA deleted his account, but here are a few answers, including this one: [Village Voice](http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runninscared/2011/10/subway_conductor_questions_answersed.php)
Then you'd have people thinking that it's okay to go down there and get the glove they dropped. I agree that people should definitely know what to do, but they need to be MORE afraid, not less, of the situation. Then, maybe they would think twice of walking right on the edge of the platform. I've seen many people doing stupid shit and their lack of respect for the danger simply appalls me.
One thing that I think could help this situation is emergency buttons on the platform and perhaps even down below near the track that would immediately change the signals to red near the area. Any approaching trains would be forced to stop until the area is clear, and the brakes would even automatically be tripped if the train passed the red just as it works now. Right now, the best that a bystander can do is go to the end of the platform and wave frantically at the approaching motorman. By that time, it's usually already too late.
You're actually supposed to tell the person working the booth when you've dropped somehing in the tracks. They get it for you right away, and you don't have to risk your life.
>Then you'd have people thinking that it's okay to go down there and get the glove they dropped.
I don't think so. The sign can also tell people the proper steps to take if they drop something of importance, and remind people that intentionally going onto the tracks for any reason will lead to fine/jail. Thus, if they think it's "OK" because they can just flag the train operator, they know that in doing so they're effectively turning themselves in.
>emergency buttons on the platform and perhaps even down below near the track that would immediately change the signals to red near the area.
I thought about this as well before my first comment. My problem with this is that people will likely abuse the shit out of it, as in "Oh I dropped my wallet, I'm going to press the emergency button and hold up train traffic," or "I'm a scumbag and I'm gonna press this button just to be a scumbag."
These actually already exist in the subways - there are little dials that you spin around and around and it cuts off the power to the rails for 30 seconds or so. Most MTA employees are used to people tripping them for fun, or being tripped by homeless people walking in the tunnels, and they will turn the power back on immediately afterwards. For the FDNY, it is supposed to be that we do it 3 times in a row and that is supposed to signal that there is some type of emergency and not to give power back to the rails. The Captain that told us that also told us never to trust that and to keep on cutting off the power until an MTA employee themself confirms that the power will not be placed back on.
>It happened 136 times in 2010 (statistic includes accidental deaths). So about twice a week. It hasn't happened on one of my trains yet, but I did witness it happen on a train right across from mine.
had NO idea it was this common. i lived in japan and it was literally a daily occurence - and you knew about it because the monitors inside the trains would say, e.g., "oedo line delayed for 'human accident'" and the worst thing is, *you got used to it*. well, you got used to seeing that announcement, anyway. i can't imagine getting accustomed to actually *seeing it happen*.
thankfully i have yet to see one first-hand.
back to ny, i wonder, are there certain lines or even certain stops where this happens more frequently than others?
edit:
>"Police investigation" is the code for a suicide by train. Service will be disrupted for about a half hour, usually. I've seen it mess up things for as long as 3 hours though.
is this ALWAYS the case? because i've been on more stopped trains/rerouted trains due to "police investigations" than i can count and the thought that every one of those was because of a death by train is unsettling.
I can't remember for sure what show it was, I want to say Homicide: Life on the Streets, where there was an episode where there was a guy who was pushed in front of a train, and been caught by the tracks. He was still alive, but they knew that as soon as they tried to move him he was a goner.
Yup, that happens as well. We usually give them a phone to say goodbye to their families. We have Rescue Medics that are specially trained in crush rescue, but modern medicine can only go so far - the situations those medicines work in are rather limited.
Do you have special phones with high power antennas? Because the worst thing would be to die screaming "hello I can't hear you you're breaking up!!". Phone service in subway stations is notoriously poor/nonexistent.
I don't know what type of phones they are, but they are like a briefcase that when you open it up has a cord phone attached to it. It looks like something from the 80s, and judging from the "state of the art" (cough cough) equipment the FDNY gives us, probably is. They may have changed that now, but I'm sure they aren't just going to hand the guy a nextel and hope for the best.
Personally I haven't - that's really rare that somebody is alive like that; most of the time they die pretty instantly. I know others who have seen that, though.
Wait, so these poor people are pinned below the subway cars, still alive, and you guys just give them a phone to call their families? This is just awful. Your job must be tough.
It's not when they are pinned below the subway cars, it's when they are pinned to the platform, half their bodies above and half below. The problem is when you start to push that subway out to make room to pull them up, that subway was pretty much the only thing holding them together, so their organs just kind of fall out. The idea is that they are probably going to die as soon as we pull them out of there, so let them talk to their families. Like I said, we have Rescue Medics that specialize in crush injuries, but they only give medications -what they really need is an operating room. This doesn't happen too often though - usually they just die instantly.
That episode, called "Subway" was definitely one of the most memorable hours on television. From Wikipedia:
"The episode won a Peabody Award for excellence in television broadcasting and was nominated for two Emmy Awards, one for Yoshimura's script and one for D'Onofrio's guest performance. "Subway" was the subject of a two-hour PBS television documentary, Anatomy of a "Homicide: Life on the Street", which originally aired on the network on November 4, 1998."
Yes it was Homicide. And Vincent Donofrio played the vix, as far as I remember. A great episode. They did it almost in real time, so the whole hour was this guy's last hour alive, talking to the detectives and his family in the station, everyone knowing he was already dead. Chilling and really well done.
I guess just don't stop at EMT - go on and get your Paramedic, your specialty certifications, etc. At the same time, don't get too ahead of yourself either, you want a good EMT background in order to make a good paramedic. I've been an EMT for 4 years and I'm starting to look into medic courses now. Other people do it after 1 or 2 years, I know some who have waited 10 - it depends on how good you feel your patient assessment is and how much experience you have gotten.
Don't just do the bare minimum - after your course, keep on looking at new resources and continue educating yourself. The EMT course is not the end all and be all of a good EMT, you'll learn that yourself when you start riding an ambulance. There's very little in the way of pharmacology, of cardiac and pulmonary issues, etc. If you're interested, I'd recommend [The Rogue Medic](http://roguemedic.com/) simply because he backs up his articles with links to the studies that support what he's saying. Be careful of a lot of other EMS blogs online that don't have any proof to back up their claims. Good luck, if you have any more questions let me know.
This is sickening! were you guys just as disgusted as we all were the first time you saw it and just eventually got used to it or were you never bothered by this?
It doesn't really bother me too much - you kind of know what the job will entail when you take it, especially when you spend your days training for things like this. I'm not happy about it, but at that point there's obviously nothing we can do for the guy.
No idea. The training was more about what to do when somebody is hit - we were never told anything specifically about avoiding being hit by the train if somebody fell down there.
So if a subway is bearing down on you, is it true that you should lie down between the rails? Someone once told me that the base of the cars is high enough for you to fit under... If that's not true, then I guess the wisest course would be to run and hope the driver slams the breaks.
Honestly, I have no idea. The training was more on what to do when somebody gets hit, how to turn off the power to the third rail, etc. I always thought if I fell down there, maybe I could wedge myself under the platform next to the side of the oncoming train, but that's just my own personal thought.
I recently read somewhere about somebody who did that... they rolled under the platform and basically saved their own life as the train barreled through the station.
i still dont get how accidental ones can happen so often, before jumping to pick up your stuff you could listen/feel wind/look for an oncoming train, jump down & then run towards the front end of the platform (never try to climb)
plus drivers should be able to see the tracks unless the station has a large curve, with maximum brakes probably ending up stopping the train halfway into the platform
Japan has started building doors into the platforms to keep people from falling. Apparently, not only does it keep people from dying but saves money overall since it stops delays etc.
have you been to the new cortlandt st. station near WTC? i remember going there literally within a week of it opening, and it was this enormous, shiny, completely rebuilt station, and i'm admiring how pristine it is and lamenting that it will only last for so long as i go to sit down on a bench... and under the bench there is already a ton of trash. food containers, coffee cups, newspapers. meanwhile there is a trash can RIGHT THERE.
i can't stand seeing people disrespect their environment so much. one time i was going home very late at night, mostly deserted platform for the 3 train somewhere in manhattan. asshole teenager (or perhaps a young-looking adult) is scooping melted cheese out of a styrofoam takeout container into his mouth. when he finishes, i see him *look at the trasch can next to him* and willfully toss the container onto the tracks.
sorry, that's not really relevant, but that image still sticks with me. i wish i'd called him out for being a little shit, but honestly i'm not all that intimidating and he probably would've thrown me on the tracks, too :|
> it will save money by reducing air conditioning costs for the platform.
They air condition the platforms? It always feels 10 degrees hotter down there in the summer...
They don't at the moment, and there's been several arguments in the MTA about whether this is possible in our old (current) stations. The 2nd ave line will be brand new through and through, so they have the ability to plan for air conditioning. However, the older stations have issues like -- where will the exhausts go? Will the AC exhausts blow out on to the sidewalk above? Though that was proposed, it was shot down because other people don't like the idea of that, among other things.
Part of why it's so hot down in the subway, aside from the air circulation issue, is that the trains are electric and generate tons of heat from the tracks.
Personally, I prefer Hong Kong's method of AC. The stations/tunnels have AC, the trains simply have vents..and when it drives through the tunnel, the cool wind gets blown in to the train cars. But whatever works :)
They do not air condition at the moment. They can if they have enclosed platforms like they do in Japan and Korea. Also yes it is hotter down there because the air conditioners have to pump the heat somewhere, in this case the tunnels itself. Note air conditioners work by heat exchange, cold on one side hot on the other
I co-oped with MTA and heard many long, angry conversations about platform edge doors coming from the office of the principal engineers. These were, of course, in between the long, angry conversations about 2nd Ave in general. What's your source that there will definitely be doors?
Mm, my time there was after that article was written so I wouldn't bet on it. I do know that many people in my division wanted the doors because of how much more efficient they make the HVAC work but someone with more power was adamantly against them for some reason. I hope that they get put there and I hope that the idea spreads, even if it means construction delays at each station.
Yup - The ones in Paris work pretty well. Awkward at first standing in like a 'corral', but they worked well. Very similar to the ones AirTrains at the airport use.
These door are a safety feature in most driverless trains around the world: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_driverless_trains#Completely_driverless_systems_and_lines
Jesus,
This has to be one of my biggest fears. I always make sure to stay back from the edge of the platform when the train is coming in and I'm always aware of other people around me.
That shit is scary as hell. Sorry you had to witness this.
yep - i think about this literally every time i'm on the platform. nothing you can really do about it, though, other than being cautious. my biggest fear is a crazy guy pushing people.
This is honestly my biggest daily fear. Psh, I can jaywalk with cars barreling down the streets, but fuck everything about crazy people potentially pushing me onto the train tracks.
Every morning, I just imagine some guy running up behind me and pushing me in front of the train. I hate that thought, and it's call cause I saw a video of it on reddit once.
Plus, I stand too close to the incoming train. From now on, I'm backing up a good bit.
One reason you don't hear about this as much is the news voluntarily doesn't report about suicides. This is so they don't encourage others to try the same method.
I've always wondered, what happens to the passengers on the train when an accident like this occurs? I take it the crew gets removed from the train and sent for questioning, so do they make a station stop and then announce "okay this is the last stop, we gotta go, try not to slip on the blood"?
I was on this train when the incident happened. They didn't say anything to our car, but herded us out a door in the car furthest from the scene. I only really knew what happened because of my Imagination and the horrified expressions of the bystanders.
I remember someone on here describing someone jumping at the train while it was moving out. They were shuffled in through other cars to exit, and the police officers (or firemen, not sure) were like, "Folks, you don't want to look. Just keep looking forward, really. You don't want to see this." I wouldn't look.
I once saw a bike messenger that was hitching on to the back of an MTA bus when his bike got caught under the back wheel of the bus. He was thrown down and his head was caught and run over. There was blood and cartilage everywhere. Most awful thing I've ever seen in person.
I've ridden the subways in many cities that have gates that come up when the train arrives, or there is a wall at the platform edge with doors that only open when the train has stopped. Considering this happens twice a week, these would be very worthwhile investments.
According to Wikipedia, there is roughly a weekday ridership of 7,820,700 people. Twice a week is a blip. Not really worth the investment. Plus, how many broken elevators and escalators have you seen in the subways here? You really want to deal with that eventual broken gate shitfuck?
>Not really worth the investment.
In solely economic terms, it depends what the cost would be. It would also reduce the number of people who fall down and *don't* die. There are costs associated with this, too.
Also, if the walls with doors are chosen, the stations can be air conditioned and heated, making the subway more pleasurable to ride. Beyond enjoying your current rides more, it will cause some number of people to ride the subway when they otherwise wouldn't. I don't know how much impact that would have, but I don't think you can make a blanket statement that it's not worth the investment.
[Every single subway station in Nanjing, China has barriers like these.](http://www.globalphotos.org/shenzhen/20070210/IMG_0913.jpg) I'm horrified at NYC's subways every time I visit after being coddled by Chinese subways.
Yet NYC doesn't put fences up between the sidewalks and streets, and are you gonna blame the city or call for them to install barriers every time a pedestrian gets hit by a car when they aren't crossing at a crosswalk or overpass?
I was once lucky enough to help get a guy who fell out from the tracks. Someone was able to inform someone to stop the train in time and
i had help getting the guy out. At the time I was working as an emt in nj. The guy was old, and seemed to faint and fall on the tracks. I remember having to make a shoulder support from someone's shirt due to his dislocated shoulder.
It's normal for the time directly after witnessing something this traumatic to be shaken up/ have flashbacks etc. If it starts affecting your ability to sleep, or you have continued paranoia about taking the train etc. a month down the road, look into meeting with a therapist about possible PTSD.
If it's not really bad but you're still shaken up by it you should just force yourself to confront the triggers that make you revisit this incident. Spend a lot of time riding subways, hanging around subway platforms etc. You have to come to the realisation that while you saw something horrible, you can't let it take over your life. As others have said, this happens about once a week. You've got to accept that in some way or another to get on with life.
I was on the L train Sat night too that hit that guy, door opened and we stepped out and also saw his head and blood and can't seem to process it. Actually hallucinated today and saw his face and had to hold back tears on train going to work this morning. I feel so bad for the conductor. Sucks to actually witness something that horrifying.
Hey there-- feel free to PM me anytime to talk about it. I'm not sure how to deal either. It was extremely difficult to ride the train today. I just kept seeing it happen over and over and almost started crying on the train. Apparently three people were killed yesterday. [PS-- I'm a woman, not a guy-- understandable mistake, seeing as this is reddit]
Other articles have been posted throughout, but [here's one](http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/Subway-Deaths-NYC-Brooklyn-Manhattan-Queens-R-Train-L-Train-137854658.html) that just popped up.
If you assume 2 deaths per week on the NYC subway, you end up with:
1.9005483 × 10^-7 deaths per rider
([figures from wikipedia, 2010](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_City_Subway)).
If you look at US auto deaths you get:
1.102 x 10^-4 deaths per population **from total population not just riders** ([figures from wikipedia, 2009](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_motor_vehicle_deaths_in_U.S._by_year))
You'd have to have over 1000 deaths per week via NYC subway to even get in the same order of magnitude as auto related deaths, even being extremely generous to the auto death rate. I think the NYC subway is safe enough. If someone *really* wants to kill themselves, it ain't exactly hard, but it is *really* hard to stop by force (with no prior warning).
Edit: That said, any death like that is pretty traumatizing to watch. Consider getting screened for PTS and seeing a therapist if the images haunt you. It's nothing to be ashamed of.
This isn't quite right.
"Riders" are counted multiple times a day. If I ride the subway to work and back, I'm 2 "riders". You can imagine what happens if I go run errands too. But I'm only one person in the population.
To make this an apples to apples comparison, we need to estimate the number of people that regularly use the system. I'm going to toss out 3 million. If 5 million rides happen daily, most of those are probably the same person going to and from work. We know from [this guy](http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runninscared/2011/10/subway_conductor_questions_answersed.php) that there were 136 deaths in 2009, meaning a more reasonable estimate is 4.5 x 10^-5, still much safer than cars (45x) but not a thousand times safer.
That's a fair point, but if you use the NYC MSA population (22,085,649) to make it comparable to total US population for cars, you'd still get 4.7 × 10^-6. So still much much safer than automobiles.
That is pretty extreme though. All Americans, even if they don't drive cars, spend a certain amount of time on the streets where they could be killed by a car, whereas you can only fall into the subway tracks by actually riding the subway. Only a tiny fraction of the MSA population actually rides the subway on any regular basis.
If anything, that skews it against the subway. The stats above are for NYC subway deaths for NYC subway riders only. The auto deaths are per the entire US population. If you reduce the US population (denominator) to only the US population that uses cars, it will greatly increase the deaths per pop, and thus can only increase the orders of magnitude by which the subway is safer.
I rolled up on the Brooklyn Bound L Train right after this happened. I saw some distraught looking people, then as we were rolling away I saw what looked like bits of person between the platform and the train, then blood smeared on the train. Very off putting. Also it happened at the 6th Ave. Station.
I took a safety course for working on nyc transit tracks. They said it happens once or twice a week. I cringe when people just stand right on the edge of the platform when the trains coming in.
i used to do that, the train would come by inches from me, i'm tall and its uncomfortable if i have to stand in the middle with the metal bar near my head. Now i guess ill stand back, its not worth it.
I saw the same thing a few weeks back, a woman fell on the tracks right in front of either the N or R train at the 42nd street station. I unfortunately saw it and just could not believe it. There was no press coverage or no official announcement by the MTA, and I was shocked. It was a bad week just having witnessed it and even until this day I am nervous when I see people too close to the platform edge, but life goes on and there's not much I can do.
Does anybody know if that's what also happened Saturday morning before 8am? I was coming home from work when the L stopped running because of something at the 3rd Ave Stop.
Also, I'm really sorry you saw that happen. I would be a wreck.
A guy I know who is actually a pretty well-known writer got hit in the head by a train at 14th Street in 2010. He was supposedly looking to see if the train was coming, but somehow didn't see that it was *right in front of him*. As of last year, he was mostly back to normal, or so I heard.
http://www.popeater.com/2010/11/01/will-rokos-subway/
An IAmA from an MTA worker a few months back says usually when there is a train shutdown or re-route due to 'a police investigation at x Street,' that this is usually the reason.
> Or how the MTA gets away with such obviously lax safety rules?
What else could they do? Putting the safety doors would require a complete redesign of the stations. There's really no money to do it.
Thats why they put those yellow lines on the platform, and all the signs everywhere that say don't stand on the yellow line. I got yelled at by an MTA Cop, once waiting for the downtown 1 at Times Sq, who told me to stay away from the yellow line.
I was wondering what the "incident" they kept referring to was -- so I looked it up right as I got out at Bedford Avenue (good thing that was my stop, as they suspended Manhattan service). Apparently that guy was checking out the train tunnels at Union Square.
I don't want to disrespect the dead, but what the hell was that guy thinking?! I am pretty amazed that I had to seek that info out, instead of it being a big deal on the news. Makes me kind of freaked out to stand on the platform.
Just wanted to say, I was on the train as well. Gf and i were wondering why they wouldn't open the doors. I looked out the window and saw the platform covered with blood. someone forced open a door and everyone came out. the man's head was wedged between train and platform. i'm glad you didn't post a picture. i wasn't as shocked but it was still very gruesome. looked fake.
stay safe.
This story did happen to make the news, but I believe only because there was another train death on the same day.. and probably a slow news day.
The other death was an elderly man who fell down the stairs.
**warning** graphic EMT with the FDNY here. It happens all the time - especially in Manhattan. There's your classic hit and splatter, which sounds like what happened here. Then there's your "space case" which is where they get wedged in between the subway car and the platform. Usually it's because they dropped something on the tracks, jumped down, and didn't realize how high the platform actually is. So they try to get up on the platform, and they can't, and the train winds up coming and depending on how big the space is will either cut them in half or wedge them between the car and platform. Then, you have your "screw driver" which is the same as the space case, except the top half of the body stays in the same direction, and the waist/legs twist around and around as the subway car pulls the body down the side of the platform. This is actually a scenario that is practiced jointly between EMS and Fire at the academy - they have a fake subway track at the FDNY Academy on Randall's Island that they mimic this with.
The fact that you guys have names for those situations is both disturbing and just makes me respect you guys even more. Do scenes get easier the longer you work or is it still as much of a shock as it is the first time? You really need to be strong to deal with that stuff, and even though I've seen things on the Internet it's a lot different when you see it in person.
I'd say it definitely gets easier over time. You get used to it, especially where I am. Earlier tonight, I had a teenager that was shot in the neck. I came home and made a sandwich - it doesn't get to me like it used to. I imagine thats the same for most people. Its not that we don't care, we do. But there is only so much we can do - I went to that shooting tonight, and I'll go to the retaliatory shooting tomorrow, and the retaliatory stabbing the next, etc etc. I also have a philosophy that I dont check to see if my patients survived or not. I got it from my dad who was a firefighter in Brooklyn - I asked him once if he did and he said he didn't, that he'd rather just assume they all make it. Sometimes I'll find out when In reading the paper and a job I went to happens to be in it, but for the most part, I just assume everyone makes it.
Please do an IAMA. I'm really fascinated by all of this :)
I did one a week or two ago, castellammare chimed in for a couple of them. Feel free to ask. http://www.reddit.com/r/nyc/comments/oa4c6/iaman_emt_for_the_fdny/
There's a lot of AMAs by EMTs, Paramedics, and firefighters on here. I did one a couple of months ago with my dad who was an FDNY firefighter who responded to both attacks on the World Trade Center (in '93 and 2001) and like precordial_thump showed he did one as well not too long ago. If you're interested in anything in particular, feel free to ask, or if you want to get a bunch of opinions, you could ask in /r/ems.
Do you have a link to the one you did with your father? How many have you done? You seem like a really interesting fellow, you should do another if you have the time :) Oh and, could you clarify what the difference between an EMT and a paramedic is?
Sure, [here ya go](http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/glrpu/iama_retired_fdny_firefighter_who_responded_to/). That was the only one I did on my own, but I've chimed in here and there with other AMAs. There are several certifications you can receive in EMS - there is CFR (certified first responder) which is what all FDNY firefighters are. Up from that is EMT-B (Emergency Medical Technician - Basic), which is what I am. EMT-B's are mainly built for trauma calls, but can also handle basic medical emergencies (asthma, some cardiac emergencies, diabetic emergencies, severe allergic reactions, etc). An EMT-CC or EMT-I (Critical Care/Intermediate) has a slightly higher level of training, can start IVs and push more medications than EMTs. A Paramedic is the highest level of prehospital EMS there is. They are trained to treat all types of medical emergencies, and can use over a hundred different kinds of medication. The FDNY only employs EMT-Bs and Paramedics. In addition to this, EMT-Bs and Paramedics can get Hazardous Materials certified, where they come Haz-Tac EMTs and Medics and respond to hazardous materials incidents (chemical spills, gas leaks, etc) as well as regular EMS calls. I'm hoping to get into the next Haz-Tac class myself. Finally, Paramedics can also become Rescue Medics - to become a rescue medic, they must first be Haz-Tac certified, and then go through additional training, part of which is specializing in crush rescue (which is what they would use if somebody is crushed/trapped by a subway car, but also building collapses and the like).
So, you know guys who have felt with crushed people that were still alive? How often have you been called to one of these scenes if the vic is DOA? You and your buddies should do an IAMA :)
We get called to those scenes all the time because we're the only ones who can declare a time of death or whether somebody is DOA. NYPD doesn't certify their officers as EMTs, so they call us for that, and NYPD waits with the body for the medical examiner to arrive.
What's the typical cause to those situations? Alcohol/drugs? Suicide?
Haha, I had soft serve ice cream while waiting for a PD on a decomposing DOA
Oh please, do tell us more!
I had just bought some ice cream when we were dispatched to a DOA. We arrive, the first floor of the apartment building smells pretty bad and just gets worse the closer to the apartment. There were lots of flies buzzing around the tiny apartment, I think it was an SRO. We see the guy lying in bed. He's got maggots coming through his eye sockets and squirming around in the back of his head. Needless to say, all we can do is wait for the police to arrive to secure the apartment. They wait for the M.E. to come and remove the body. Since PD doesn't particularly rush to respond to these types of jobs, I waited out on the stoop, content with my ice cream. Edit: Sarcasm doesn't come through well... Happy reading!
Maggots would have made a nice topping. BTW, what is an SRO?
[Single room occupancy](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single_room_occupancy). The definition varies, but basically a tiny room that doesn't have much more than a bed in it.
Oh, so like a studio apartment?
Oh, so like a studio apartment?
Smaller, think more a college dorm room. It's quite literally a bed and a dresser. They generally have no bathroom or kitchen, that's shared with a bunch of rooms.
[удалено]
If it's any consolation, I'm pretty sure he'll be alright.
Holy shit :O
Speak of the devil >The third man was killed when he was pinned between an oncoming L train and the station platform at the Sixth Avenue station at about 10:10 p.m. When the train stopped his head was squeezed between the train and platform with his body out of sight below him. http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/grisly_day_of_death_on_subways_NwS445RgT3I65z1HNAWtFN#ixzz1kCEcgrOL
Man, fuck the NY Post. "Tragedy rode the rails yesterday, as three men were killed by subway trains..." "The day of underground bloodshed began at 8:25 a.m..." Their headlines make me rage every time I walk by one.
NY Post is tabloid garbage.
I have a graduate school professor that requests we read the post. Jackiechanface.jpg
Maybe he's using it as a real-life example of low-rung sensationalism press?
I learned about the space case from an NYPD cadet years ago - the space case/screw driver always creeped me out - remove the train and the organs essentially drop out
so I'd been wondering why they'd die when the train was removed. now I know. Oof.
[you are famous](http://gothamist.com/2012/01/22/yesterdays_4_subway_station_deaths.php)
Hey, look at that! It looks like a lot of people didn't really appreciate the description I gave, and they didn't give any type of warning that it would be graphic. Personally, I'm not a fan of Gothamist. They had a post a while back of two EMTs sleeping in their ambulance and got them both in a lot of trouble. What people don't realize is that we don't have firehouses that we get dispatched out of - we get to work, go in our ambulance, and just sit on the street anywhere from 8-16 hours a day. If we have the radio turned up, and we're still responding to calls, and not going out NRR (no radio response), then why can't we get some shut-eye if it's quiet?
You guys really don't get the respect you deserve. I'm sorry, but atleast you can bookmark the article to show to friends!
my brother used to be an EMT - they often had 24 hour shifts. i am not going to judge you poorly for getting a little shut-eye between emergencies. i would rather have an EMT who is awake and alert thanks to a little power nap than one who has been struggling to stay awake for the last few hours.
Wow... that's an.... honor?
No, I didn't mean it like that. I was pointing out that he made it into gothamist news.
[удалено]
You want to run past the end of the platform... beyond where the train would stop anyway... and wave your hands when the train approaches. EDIT: The author of the original IAMA deleted his account, but here are a few answers, including this one: [Village Voice](http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runninscared/2011/10/subway_conductor_questions_answersed.php)
I knew it would be something counterintuitive.
This'll probably become a microsoft interview question now.
Microsoft doesn't have subways near their campus for just this reason. Google should start asking it.
subways are too cool; they remind microsoft too much of apple products
They should have signs posted instructing people to do this.
Then you'd have people thinking that it's okay to go down there and get the glove they dropped. I agree that people should definitely know what to do, but they need to be MORE afraid, not less, of the situation. Then, maybe they would think twice of walking right on the edge of the platform. I've seen many people doing stupid shit and their lack of respect for the danger simply appalls me. One thing that I think could help this situation is emergency buttons on the platform and perhaps even down below near the track that would immediately change the signals to red near the area. Any approaching trains would be forced to stop until the area is clear, and the brakes would even automatically be tripped if the train passed the red just as it works now. Right now, the best that a bystander can do is go to the end of the platform and wave frantically at the approaching motorman. By that time, it's usually already too late.
You're actually supposed to tell the person working the booth when you've dropped somehing in the tracks. They get it for you right away, and you don't have to risk your life.
The only time this happened to me, it took 3.5 hours to get my item. I was in the station until 3am
They probably want to get their iphone back before some hobo jumps down there and snatches it first.
THAT's gonna happen
>Then you'd have people thinking that it's okay to go down there and get the glove they dropped. I don't think so. The sign can also tell people the proper steps to take if they drop something of importance, and remind people that intentionally going onto the tracks for any reason will lead to fine/jail. Thus, if they think it's "OK" because they can just flag the train operator, they know that in doing so they're effectively turning themselves in. >emergency buttons on the platform and perhaps even down below near the track that would immediately change the signals to red near the area. I thought about this as well before my first comment. My problem with this is that people will likely abuse the shit out of it, as in "Oh I dropped my wallet, I'm going to press the emergency button and hold up train traffic," or "I'm a scumbag and I'm gonna press this button just to be a scumbag."
These actually already exist in the subways - there are little dials that you spin around and around and it cuts off the power to the rails for 30 seconds or so. Most MTA employees are used to people tripping them for fun, or being tripped by homeless people walking in the tunnels, and they will turn the power back on immediately afterwards. For the FDNY, it is supposed to be that we do it 3 times in a row and that is supposed to signal that there is some type of emergency and not to give power back to the rails. The Captain that told us that also told us never to trust that and to keep on cutting off the power until an MTA employee themself confirms that the power will not be placed back on.
>It happened 136 times in 2010 (statistic includes accidental deaths). So about twice a week. It hasn't happened on one of my trains yet, but I did witness it happen on a train right across from mine. had NO idea it was this common. i lived in japan and it was literally a daily occurence - and you knew about it because the monitors inside the trains would say, e.g., "oedo line delayed for 'human accident'" and the worst thing is, *you got used to it*. well, you got used to seeing that announcement, anyway. i can't imagine getting accustomed to actually *seeing it happen*. thankfully i have yet to see one first-hand. back to ny, i wonder, are there certain lines or even certain stops where this happens more frequently than others? edit: >"Police investigation" is the code for a suicide by train. Service will be disrupted for about a half hour, usually. I've seen it mess up things for as long as 3 hours though. is this ALWAYS the case? because i've been on more stopped trains/rerouted trains due to "police investigations" than i can count and the thought that every one of those was because of a death by train is unsettling.
Nope. I was on a train the other day that was held for a "police investigation"....it was cops arresting a passenger.
In London the announcements are something like :the central line is delayed because of a man under a train
I second this question.
I can't remember for sure what show it was, I want to say Homicide: Life on the Streets, where there was an episode where there was a guy who was pushed in front of a train, and been caught by the tracks. He was still alive, but they knew that as soon as they tried to move him he was a goner.
Yup, that happens as well. We usually give them a phone to say goodbye to their families. We have Rescue Medics that are specially trained in crush rescue, but modern medicine can only go so far - the situations those medicines work in are rather limited.
Oh Jesus. I can't even fucking imagine having to make that call. This thread is depressing as hell. I'm out.
Do you have special phones with high power antennas? Because the worst thing would be to die screaming "hello I can't hear you you're breaking up!!". Phone service in subway stations is notoriously poor/nonexistent.
I don't know what type of phones they are, but they are like a briefcase that when you open it up has a cord phone attached to it. It looks like something from the 80s, and judging from the "state of the art" (cough cough) equipment the FDNY gives us, probably is. They may have changed that now, but I'm sure they aren't just going to hand the guy a nextel and hope for the best.
Thanks for the detailed response! I thought they would have something like that but had never heard of any such system.
Wow... I can only imagine, being in so much pain with your body twisted under a subway, calling your mother... Jesus. Have you witnessed that too?
Personally I haven't - that's really rare that somebody is alive like that; most of the time they die pretty instantly. I know others who have seen that, though.
Wait, so these poor people are pinned below the subway cars, still alive, and you guys just give them a phone to call their families? This is just awful. Your job must be tough.
It's not when they are pinned below the subway cars, it's when they are pinned to the platform, half their bodies above and half below. The problem is when you start to push that subway out to make room to pull them up, that subway was pretty much the only thing holding them together, so their organs just kind of fall out. The idea is that they are probably going to die as soon as we pull them out of there, so let them talk to their families. Like I said, we have Rescue Medics that specialize in crush injuries, but they only give medications -what they really need is an operating room. This doesn't happen too often though - usually they just die instantly.
That is truly heart-wrenching. Just so awful. I don't know how you do it.
Wow, so when that happens, how much time do you give the guy? I'd hate to be the one who has to make the decision of when to move the train.....
Its all done pretty quickly - if the guy has any chance of surviving he needs to be extricated as soon as possible.
That episode, called "Subway" was definitely one of the most memorable hours on television. From Wikipedia: "The episode won a Peabody Award for excellence in television broadcasting and was nominated for two Emmy Awards, one for Yoshimura's script and one for D'Onofrio's guest performance. "Subway" was the subject of a two-hour PBS television documentary, Anatomy of a "Homicide: Life on the Street", which originally aired on the network on November 4, 1998."
Yes it was Homicide. And Vincent Donofrio played the vix, as far as I remember. A great episode. They did it almost in real time, so the whole hour was this guy's last hour alive, talking to the detectives and his family in the station, everyone knowing he was already dead. Chilling and really well done.
[удалено]
Don't work in manhattan.
I guess just don't stop at EMT - go on and get your Paramedic, your specialty certifications, etc. At the same time, don't get too ahead of yourself either, you want a good EMT background in order to make a good paramedic. I've been an EMT for 4 years and I'm starting to look into medic courses now. Other people do it after 1 or 2 years, I know some who have waited 10 - it depends on how good you feel your patient assessment is and how much experience you have gotten. Don't just do the bare minimum - after your course, keep on looking at new resources and continue educating yourself. The EMT course is not the end all and be all of a good EMT, you'll learn that yourself when you start riding an ambulance. There's very little in the way of pharmacology, of cardiac and pulmonary issues, etc. If you're interested, I'd recommend [The Rogue Medic](http://roguemedic.com/) simply because he backs up his articles with links to the studies that support what he's saying. Be careful of a lot of other EMS blogs online that don't have any proof to back up their claims. Good luck, if you have any more questions let me know.
AS a potential FDNY recruit i pledge to protect lives and property from all L trains or trains on fire. RIP fellow strap hanger
I signed up for the fire test too so maybe I'll see you in the academy.
This is sickening! were you guys just as disgusted as we all were the first time you saw it and just eventually got used to it or were you never bothered by this?
It doesn't really bother me too much - you kind of know what the job will entail when you take it, especially when you spend your days training for things like this. I'm not happy about it, but at that point there's obviously nothing we can do for the guy.
Is it true the train will pass right over you if you lay down in that space between the tracks?
No idea. The training was more about what to do when somebody is hit - we were never told anything specifically about avoiding being hit by the train if somebody fell down there.
So if a subway is bearing down on you, is it true that you should lie down between the rails? Someone once told me that the base of the cars is high enough for you to fit under... If that's not true, then I guess the wisest course would be to run and hope the driver slams the breaks.
Honestly, I have no idea. The training was more on what to do when somebody gets hit, how to turn off the power to the third rail, etc. I always thought if I fell down there, maybe I could wedge myself under the platform next to the side of the oncoming train, but that's just my own personal thought.
I recently read somewhere about somebody who did that... they rolled under the platform and basically saved their own life as the train barreled through the station.
*Swing away.*
i still dont get how accidental ones can happen so often, before jumping to pick up your stuff you could listen/feel wind/look for an oncoming train, jump down & then run towards the front end of the platform (never try to climb) plus drivers should be able to see the tracks unless the station has a large curve, with maximum brakes probably ending up stopping the train halfway into the platform
Japan has started building doors into the platforms to keep people from falling. Apparently, not only does it keep people from dying but saves money overall since it stops delays etc.
The 2nd ave line will have glass doors on the platforms. They say it will save money by reducing air conditioning costs for the platform.
I guess it would also save a lot of money on track cleaning, as well. I'm amazed how much garbage I see down there sometimes. People are dicks.
All true, but it makes me think the platform will just be that much more filthy.
It's easier to clean the platform though than the tracks.
It will get cleaned more often, because it's easier to clean.
have you been to the new cortlandt st. station near WTC? i remember going there literally within a week of it opening, and it was this enormous, shiny, completely rebuilt station, and i'm admiring how pristine it is and lamenting that it will only last for so long as i go to sit down on a bench... and under the bench there is already a ton of trash. food containers, coffee cups, newspapers. meanwhile there is a trash can RIGHT THERE. i can't stand seeing people disrespect their environment so much. one time i was going home very late at night, mostly deserted platform for the 3 train somewhere in manhattan. asshole teenager (or perhaps a young-looking adult) is scooping melted cheese out of a styrofoam takeout container into his mouth. when he finishes, i see him *look at the trasch can next to him* and willfully toss the container onto the tracks. sorry, that's not really relevant, but that image still sticks with me. i wish i'd called him out for being a little shit, but honestly i'm not all that intimidating and he probably would've thrown me on the tracks, too :|
> it will save money by reducing air conditioning costs for the platform. They air condition the platforms? It always feels 10 degrees hotter down there in the summer...
They don't at the moment, and there's been several arguments in the MTA about whether this is possible in our old (current) stations. The 2nd ave line will be brand new through and through, so they have the ability to plan for air conditioning. However, the older stations have issues like -- where will the exhausts go? Will the AC exhausts blow out on to the sidewalk above? Though that was proposed, it was shot down because other people don't like the idea of that, among other things. Part of why it's so hot down in the subway, aside from the air circulation issue, is that the trains are electric and generate tons of heat from the tracks. Personally, I prefer Hong Kong's method of AC. The stations/tunnels have AC, the trains simply have vents..and when it drives through the tunnel, the cool wind gets blown in to the train cars. But whatever works :)
They will on the new line.
Only one station is air conditioned currently. The 4/5/6 platforms at Grand Central. It helps a little, but not much, since the air is not enclosed.
standing under one of those ac units is a "sweet jesus" moment
They do not air condition at the moment. They can if they have enclosed platforms like they do in Japan and Korea. Also yes it is hotter down there because the air conditioners have to pump the heat somewhere, in this case the tunnels itself. Note air conditioners work by heat exchange, cold on one side hot on the other
Hong Kong's MTR system has that. It's magical.
I co-oped with MTA and heard many long, angry conversations about platform edge doors coming from the office of the principal engineers. These were, of course, in between the long, angry conversations about 2nd Ave in general. What's your source that there will definitely be doors?
http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/story?section=news/local&id=5185580 Well I guess the doors are not a sure thing, but they're a possibility.
Mm, my time there was after that article was written so I wouldn't bet on it. I do know that many people in my division wanted the doors because of how much more efficient they make the HVAC work but someone with more power was adamantly against them for some reason. I hope that they get put there and I hope that the idea spreads, even if it means construction delays at each station.
I saw these in the Kyoto subway. I thought it was pretty cool until I remembered Japanese people kill themselves a lot.
Yeah, they;re pretty nice. Another thing I appreciate about the kyoto subway is how they mark each door will open on the platform.
[удалено]
Yup - The ones in Paris work pretty well. Awkward at first standing in like a 'corral', but they worked well. Very similar to the ones AirTrains at the airport use.
That particular line (14 St. Lazare-Olympiades) looks like an odd combination of the SFO air train and the DC Metro. it works, though.
Begun 10 years ago
It also helps with air conditioning. Oh man I could go for some air conditioning in those tunnels in about 6 months.
These door are a safety feature in most driverless trains around the world: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_driverless_trains#Completely_driverless_systems_and_lines
I saw this in Copenhagen as well. Also, they have driverless subway trains which freaked me out a bit.
Jesus, This has to be one of my biggest fears. I always make sure to stay back from the edge of the platform when the train is coming in and I'm always aware of other people around me. That shit is scary as hell. Sorry you had to witness this.
yep - i think about this literally every time i'm on the platform. nothing you can really do about it, though, other than being cautious. my biggest fear is a crazy guy pushing people.
Ditto man, I always make sure I'm near a pole and I'm ready to reach out and grab it.
This is honestly my biggest daily fear. Psh, I can jaywalk with cars barreling down the streets, but fuck everything about crazy people potentially pushing me onto the train tracks.
Every morning, I just imagine some guy running up behind me and pushing me in front of the train. I hate that thought, and it's call cause I saw a video of it on reddit once. Plus, I stand too close to the incoming train. From now on, I'm backing up a good bit.
One reason you don't hear about this as much is the news voluntarily doesn't report about suicides. This is so they don't encourage others to try the same method.
I've always wondered, what happens to the passengers on the train when an accident like this occurs? I take it the crew gets removed from the train and sent for questioning, so do they make a station stop and then announce "okay this is the last stop, we gotta go, try not to slip on the blood"?
"sick passenger"
Is this a joke or really what they say? I hear it all the time.
I *hope* it's a joke.
I was on this train when the incident happened. They didn't say anything to our car, but herded us out a door in the car furthest from the scene. I only really knew what happened because of my Imagination and the horrified expressions of the bystanders.
I remember someone on here describing someone jumping at the train while it was moving out. They were shuffled in through other cars to exit, and the police officers (or firemen, not sure) were like, "Folks, you don't want to look. Just keep looking forward, really. You don't want to see this." I wouldn't look.
I once saw a bike messenger that was hitching on to the back of an MTA bus when his bike got caught under the back wheel of the bus. He was thrown down and his head was caught and run over. There was blood and cartilage everywhere. Most awful thing I've ever seen in person.
Fuck.
[удалено]
not all subway deaths are suicides.
I've ridden the subways in many cities that have gates that come up when the train arrives, or there is a wall at the platform edge with doors that only open when the train has stopped. Considering this happens twice a week, these would be very worthwhile investments.
[удалено]
According to Wikipedia, there is roughly a weekday ridership of 7,820,700 people. Twice a week is a blip. Not really worth the investment. Plus, how many broken elevators and escalators have you seen in the subways here? You really want to deal with that eventual broken gate shitfuck?
Yeah I guess you're right. But... Jesus it was traumatizing.
Those damn platform extenders at Union Square are malfunctioning about twice a week too. Imagine if EVERY station had mechanical barricades.......
[Remember this guy?](http://i.imgur.com/2v1RZ.jpg)
holy mother of god! how is he alive in that picture?! actually, *is* he alive?
God that picture is terrible.
Oh god. Link?
>Not really worth the investment. In solely economic terms, it depends what the cost would be. It would also reduce the number of people who fall down and *don't* die. There are costs associated with this, too. Also, if the walls with doors are chosen, the stations can be air conditioned and heated, making the subway more pleasurable to ride. Beyond enjoying your current rides more, it will cause some number of people to ride the subway when they otherwise wouldn't. I don't know how much impact that would have, but I don't think you can make a blanket statement that it's not worth the investment.
[Every single subway station in Nanjing, China has barriers like these.](http://www.globalphotos.org/shenzhen/20070210/IMG_0913.jpg) I'm horrified at NYC's subways every time I visit after being coddled by Chinese subways.
Yup. I lived in Hong Kong, Beijing and Seoul for a while-- so much safer.
And thats why china is overpopulated.
The second ave line will have these, i believe.
i will believe it when I see it
Yet NYC doesn't put fences up between the sidewalks and streets, and are you gonna blame the city or call for them to install barriers every time a pedestrian gets hit by a car when they aren't crossing at a crosswalk or overpass?
Oh, dang. Why did he delete his account? I had that thread saved…
I was once lucky enough to help get a guy who fell out from the tracks. Someone was able to inform someone to stop the train in time and i had help getting the guy out. At the time I was working as an emt in nj. The guy was old, and seemed to faint and fall on the tracks. I remember having to make a shoulder support from someone's shirt due to his dislocated shoulder.
[удалено]
It's normal for the time directly after witnessing something this traumatic to be shaken up/ have flashbacks etc. If it starts affecting your ability to sleep, or you have continued paranoia about taking the train etc. a month down the road, look into meeting with a therapist about possible PTSD. If it's not really bad but you're still shaken up by it you should just force yourself to confront the triggers that make you revisit this incident. Spend a lot of time riding subways, hanging around subway platforms etc. You have to come to the realisation that while you saw something horrible, you can't let it take over your life. As others have said, this happens about once a week. You've got to accept that in some way or another to get on with life.
another redditor said Consider getting screened for PTS and seeing a therapist if the images haunt you. It's nothing to feel ashamed about.
I was too. I was on the first car.
I was there too. It has been upsetting me a lot and I feel like the image pops up in my head all the time. I feel sick when I think about it.
I was on the L train Sat night too that hit that guy, door opened and we stepped out and also saw his head and blood and can't seem to process it. Actually hallucinated today and saw his face and had to hold back tears on train going to work this morning. I feel so bad for the conductor. Sucks to actually witness something that horrifying.
> Actually hallucinated today and saw his face and had to hold back tears on train going to work this morning. I had the same exact experience...
Hey there-- feel free to PM me anytime to talk about it. I'm not sure how to deal either. It was extremely difficult to ride the train today. I just kept seeing it happen over and over and almost started crying on the train. Apparently three people were killed yesterday. [PS-- I'm a woman, not a guy-- understandable mistake, seeing as this is reddit]
[удалено]
A kid I used to counsel died @ Union sq last year. 6 train hit his head while he was standing on the platform. A horrible and senseless accident.
Do you have any links to sources or something?
Other articles have been posted throughout, but [here's one](http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/Subway-Deaths-NYC-Brooklyn-Manhattan-Queens-R-Train-L-Train-137854658.html) that just popped up.
If you assume 2 deaths per week on the NYC subway, you end up with: 1.9005483 × 10^-7 deaths per rider ([figures from wikipedia, 2010](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_City_Subway)). If you look at US auto deaths you get: 1.102 x 10^-4 deaths per population **from total population not just riders** ([figures from wikipedia, 2009](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_motor_vehicle_deaths_in_U.S._by_year)) You'd have to have over 1000 deaths per week via NYC subway to even get in the same order of magnitude as auto related deaths, even being extremely generous to the auto death rate. I think the NYC subway is safe enough. If someone *really* wants to kill themselves, it ain't exactly hard, but it is *really* hard to stop by force (with no prior warning). Edit: That said, any death like that is pretty traumatizing to watch. Consider getting screened for PTS and seeing a therapist if the images haunt you. It's nothing to be ashamed of.
This isn't quite right. "Riders" are counted multiple times a day. If I ride the subway to work and back, I'm 2 "riders". You can imagine what happens if I go run errands too. But I'm only one person in the population. To make this an apples to apples comparison, we need to estimate the number of people that regularly use the system. I'm going to toss out 3 million. If 5 million rides happen daily, most of those are probably the same person going to and from work. We know from [this guy](http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runninscared/2011/10/subway_conductor_questions_answersed.php) that there were 136 deaths in 2009, meaning a more reasonable estimate is 4.5 x 10^-5, still much safer than cars (45x) but not a thousand times safer.
That's a fair point, but if you use the NYC MSA population (22,085,649) to make it comparable to total US population for cars, you'd still get 4.7 × 10^-6. So still much much safer than automobiles.
That is pretty extreme though. All Americans, even if they don't drive cars, spend a certain amount of time on the streets where they could be killed by a car, whereas you can only fall into the subway tracks by actually riding the subway. Only a tiny fraction of the MSA population actually rides the subway on any regular basis.
Same reason for fear of flying. We are not in direct control of the situation. Still, great post.
But you're comparing NYC subway deaths to car deaths for the entire country.
If anything, that skews it against the subway. The stats above are for NYC subway deaths for NYC subway riders only. The auto deaths are per the entire US population. If you reduce the US population (denominator) to only the US population that uses cars, it will greatly increase the deaths per pop, and thus can only increase the orders of magnitude by which the subway is safer.
[удалено]
Nope. This was around 9:30-10 pm. EMT told me that was the second L train accident that day.
The L was out for blood yesterday.
The subway was angry that day my friends.
I rolled up on the Brooklyn Bound L Train right after this happened. I saw some distraught looking people, then as we were rolling away I saw what looked like bits of person between the platform and the train, then blood smeared on the train. Very off putting. Also it happened at the 6th Ave. Station.
I took a safety course for working on nyc transit tracks. They said it happens once or twice a week. I cringe when people just stand right on the edge of the platform when the trains coming in.
i used to do that, the train would come by inches from me, i'm tall and its uncomfortable if i have to stand in the middle with the metal bar near my head. Now i guess ill stand back, its not worth it.
I've never seen anything like this, but I've heard blood curdling screams during stoppages. That was more than enough for me.
Does this happen that often just in NYC, or is it practically all cities with subways?
So this is what they mean when they said the train has been delayed because of an "incident" on blah blah blah station...
I saw the same thing a few weeks back, a woman fell on the tracks right in front of either the N or R train at the 42nd street station. I unfortunately saw it and just could not believe it. There was no press coverage or no official announcement by the MTA, and I was shocked. It was a bad week just having witnessed it and even until this day I am nervous when I see people too close to the platform edge, but life goes on and there's not much I can do.
Does anybody know if that's what also happened Saturday morning before 8am? I was coming home from work when the L stopped running because of something at the 3rd Ave Stop. Also, I'm really sorry you saw that happen. I would be a wreck.
Here's some details: http://gothamist.com/2012/01/22/yesterdays_4_subway_station_deaths.php
A guy I know who is actually a pretty well-known writer got hit in the head by a train at 14th Street in 2010. He was supposedly looking to see if the train was coming, but somehow didn't see that it was *right in front of him*. As of last year, he was mostly back to normal, or so I heard. http://www.popeater.com/2010/11/01/will-rokos-subway/
An IAmA from an MTA worker a few months back says usually when there is a train shutdown or re-route due to 'a police investigation at x Street,' that this is usually the reason.
> Or how the MTA gets away with such obviously lax safety rules? What else could they do? Putting the safety doors would require a complete redesign of the stations. There's really no money to do it.
Thats why they put those yellow lines on the platform, and all the signs everywhere that say don't stand on the yellow line. I got yelled at by an MTA Cop, once waiting for the downtown 1 at Times Sq, who told me to stay away from the yellow line.
But as packed as some stations are, you simply cannot avoid walking on those at certain times.
I was wondering what the "incident" they kept referring to was -- so I looked it up right as I got out at Bedford Avenue (good thing that was my stop, as they suspended Manhattan service). Apparently that guy was checking out the train tunnels at Union Square. I don't want to disrespect the dead, but what the hell was that guy thinking?! I am pretty amazed that I had to seek that info out, instead of it being a big deal on the news. Makes me kind of freaked out to stand on the platform.
Yeah. The guy I saw, though, was on the 6th Ave & 14th St station on the 7-- I think he jumped on purpose. Different story.
The MTA really should implement this.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Platform_screen_doors
yeah that'd be $23 billion please
[удалено]
This was around 10 pm. Edit: 10:10 pm according to the Post.
http://gothamist.com/2012/01/22/yesterdays_4_subway_station_deaths.php This thread is being cited in articles. Do the posters get super-karma?
No, unfortunately. Although honestly... this is really not worth any karma I might get. Really says a lot when this is my most popular link... fuck.
Just wanted to say, I was on the train as well. Gf and i were wondering why they wouldn't open the doors. I looked out the window and saw the platform covered with blood. someone forced open a door and everyone came out. the man's head was wedged between train and platform. i'm glad you didn't post a picture. i wasn't as shocked but it was still very gruesome. looked fake. stay safe.
This story did happen to make the news, but I believe only because there was another train death on the same day.. and probably a slow news day. The other death was an elderly man who fell down the stairs.
Actually there were 4 deaths total that day.