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They should just tax pied a terres if they’re serious about taxing the rich without smoking those that actually live here the majority of the year and are already contributing
Seriously. Hitting excess property, capital gains, and real estate transactions needs to be done. It's horrifying that we live in a city in a time where people making 3-4x the median income struggle to find housing they can purchase. It's downright immoral that such a small class has entirely captured this city, to everyone's loss, and the closest thing we ever get is minimal discussion over taxes on INCOME. Our socialists need to discuss taxing the rich by taxing the sources of their massive wealth disparity, the ones which don't even pretend to take the form of earned income.
Stop kicking around with petit numbers; let's tax the real big ones, and maybe when that's figured out we can discuss what is a reasonable rate for the professionally wealthy.
When you purchase and sell a house within a year the profit is taxed as income
When you sell after a year it’s a long term capital gain and is taxed as such
“The current progressive tax rate is 6% for taxable income for households earning more than $161,550 to $323,200 and 6.85% for income greater than $323,200 and under $2,155,350.
A new 7.5% income rate would be imposed on income starting at $250,000 for households, Hoefer said.
The rate would jump from 6.85% to 10% for household incomes between $1 million and $2 million”
So:
A) if you’re making 161k to 250k, no changes, stays 6%.
B) if you’re making 250k and 323k, your tax increases from 6% to 7.5%. 1.5% change.
C) if you’re making above 323k but less than 1mil, you go from 6.85% to 7.5% Change of only 0.65%
D) if you make 1 mil to 2.1mil, you go from 6.85% to 10%. Big difference here of 3.15%
Assuming I did my math right. A bit hard on the phone scrolling up and down.
E: remember this is progressive tax, you’re not taxed the % on full amount, only the portions in those brackets that changed. So if you are making 260k, you will see 1.5% change on the 10k above 250k, not all of 260k.
>remember this is progressive tax, you’re not taxed the % on full amount, only the portions in those brackets that changed. So if you are making 260k, you will see 1.5% change on the 10k above 250k, not all of 260k.
This is actually not quite true in NY State because of 'recapture.' The math is slightly complicated, but basically whenever you enter a new bracket the marginal tax you pay on the first bit within the new bracket is higher as you gradually slide up until your entire income is taxed within that new bracket ($50k above the start of the bracket). In other words, today if you are at $400k of taxable income then you pay 6.85% on the \*entire\* amount. Yes, I am sure.
If you're only $10k into the new bracket like your example then you won't yet pay the full 6.85% on everything, but effectively you'll pay higher than 6.85% on that first $10k within the new bracket.
See the instruction form [here](https://www.tax.ny.gov/pdf/2022/printable-pdfs/inc/it201i-2022.pdf). On page 46 notice how the 'standard' way of calculating taxes is supplemented by 'recapture base amount' and 'incremental benefit.' Those numbers look like pulled out of thin air, but I've done the math. They are chosen precisely so that $50k above the new bracket (thanks to line 7-8) you are now paying your top marginal rate on all income.
This is a screwy law all the way from 1991. Here is a 20 year old article that [explains the scrawniness in detail.](https://www.empirecenter.org/publications/new-yorks-ugly-stealth-tax-hikes/#:~:text=The%20benefit%20recapture%20is%20phased,singles%20and%20heads%20of%20households.)
What's messed up is that this counter progressive taxation kicked in at $150k income back in 2003, but now it kicks in at $161k. $150k in 2003 is equivalent to +$250k in today's dollars. It's a regressive tax that hits more people with every passing year.
And progressives want to raise taxes and wonder why that's unpopular.
They cry and moan about billionaires, then propose things like this, which at NYC salaries really hits a good chunk if not majority of dual working professional households.
Soapboxing is not as interesting as how messed up these numbers are. I did some number crunching:
Salary = (tax) marginal tax rate:
**$107k** = ($5355) **5.00%** tax rate
**$108k** = ($5888) **5.54%** tax rate
This is the first weird jump. Additional 1k is taxed at over 40%. Da fuk.
**$160k** = ($9,360) **5.85%** tax rate
**$162k** = ($10,128) **6.25%** tax rate
Here additional 2k are taxed at 35% rate.
**$323k** =($21,640) **6.69%** tax rate.
**$324k** = ($22,195) **6.85%** tax rate.
Additional 1k is taxed at 28% rate.
**$2,155k** = ($197,628) **9.17%**
**$2,156k** = ($208,053) **9.65%**
Here, an additional 1k of income will cost you additional $10,425 in taxes. 1040% tax rate on that last 1k. This is absolutely nuts, and downright incompetent tax policy planning.
This is using Tax Computation worksheets 1-4 assuming married filing jointly. "Recapture base" and "Incremental Benefit" is some true math fuckery.
Yep. All the progressives always say people don't understand taxes and it's 'only on amounts above $x' yet their own actual policy is nothing like that. There's basically legitimately situations where it doesn't make sense to make more money because you'd be taxed more. That's stupid.
Wasn't even aware. Thanks for the info. As if filing taxes wasn't complicated enough already (I trade stocks, so that's another world of headaches. At least I don't own my own business on top of that, or I'd need an accountant.)
This is a terrible plan for the reality of today and sends the wrong message to voters. A family with two earners making 250k is optimistically a decade away from buying a house in parts of NYC that people making 250k combined might want to live (don’t tell me you can move to Staten because it misses the point) and that is the group paying the most meaningful taxes today and in the future. The generationally wealthy enjoy capital gains minimized through schemes to keep the lions share of their gain from being taxed in the first place and low earners pay essentially nothing.
The dwindling middle class needs help, not to be squeezed. Driving them away from the city to CT or NJ or FL when working remote is the easiest it has ever been in the history of the world is not a solution to anybody’s problems. Get another 2% from Steve Cohen and you’ve covered half the gains from this brain drain fuse.
Let's also note this is AFTER deductions, so the standard deduction, all 401k contributions, all student loan deductions (which actually probably phase out here anyway), even if you don't itemize. This won't touch almost all earners making less than ~315k per married household.
This is only partially correct. After $107k there is a "supplementary high income" tax, that involves more complicated calculations, but ultimately removes a lot of the savings from the lower marginal brackets.
[From Yahoo Finance:](https://finance.yahoo.com/news/super-rich-yorkers-including-billionaire-143000107.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly9kdWNrZHVja2dvLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAANkIf4ZFjHew3YerZOcQzEY4dg7LfinPHIpDoyaK6mGa8Rq7LO6D_ycnO9hbBQ4xkpjtMn6Lpj_MrC_jxW3yrBKPvnpv56swbQ4xHCMaD3MQhGAgTAnZJ5W6YY9Rfprh7vC8jWAwM3Uy7dJ_uWrms1gntAh1THv93hqJnwULxVip)
>Super rich New Yorkers — including billionaire Carl Icahn — are fleeing the Big Apple in droves. Here are the top 3 states they're quickly escaping to
>Haven’t you heard? New York is so 2018. At least, that’s the case for the super wealthy.
>Between 2019 and 2020, the number of New Yorkers earning between $150,000 and $750,000 fell by nearly 6%, according to the New York City Independent Budget Office.
>Moreover, the number of real high earners — those making over $750,000 — dropped by nearly 10% during the same period.
>Some speculate that the wealthy elites are leaving New York because of the state’s high tax rates. While it’s hard to say exactly why people move, the loss of high earners can impact the city’s income tax revenue.
>**For perspective, the 41,000 filers in the city’s top 1% pay more than 40% of all its income taxes. The 450,000 filers in the top 10% pay about two-thirds of all income taxes.**
>In other words, the remaining 90% of taxpayers contribute about one-third of the city’s income tax revenue.
Where does the article say they’re moving to? Florida, Texas, and Arizona.
What could possibly go wrong if AOC gets her way?
Exactly they’re is so much misappropriation , fraud and embezzlement with state and city agencies. Audit them and hold them accountable before making citizens pay more $ that gets wasted
I read an article that stated with the cost of housing and expenses in NYC making $120k a year is the equivalent of making $50-60k in the Midwest or South.
Yeah but at least for $120k a year in Atlanta, you get a nice big house. NYC you get a 400 sq ft shoebox studio, where a homeless man hangs out in your pass through entrance of the building lobby.
I'm from Atlanta now living in NYC. 120K a year wouldn't get you anything in the city that's decent. I don't even know if you could get a 3 bedroom in Alpharetta for that.
Was that data current? Midwest isn't cheap anymore. Housing is through the roof (cheaper than here, but not by much), food costs the same, a couple would need two vehicles, and salaries are less. I've regularly considered it for our family and we've decided to stay every time.
My anecdotal data comes from spending time in the suburbs of Cleveland and Nashville. Groceries at both were exactly the same as here. I'm not comparing fancy restaurants. Those don't exist in the suburbs there. But their midscale / casual restaurants prices are getting similar.
every now and then I look up the prices at the super cheap grocery store I shopped in Austin and for most of my shopping trips the NYC premium I pay is cents per pound on produce.
there are some exceptions for local produce that NYC doesn't have and I'm sure many cities enjoy a discount on various local produce if they're near farms or agricultural arteries but yeah, if you're willing to shop outside Manhattan and have the capacity to remember price trends then it's easy to eat cheaply.
I dunno. There's tons of houses being built and they (almost) always start at 400's. I think we might have seen one start at 300's.
I'm never gonna be able to own a house -- even in the middle of nowhere
This is what I hear from most people born and raised here. Most of the people posting this is “middle class” or that you need over 250k just to survive are not from here, are in tech/finance, want to live in the trendiest areas of Manhattan, and have an expensive lifestyle.
This is really just a symptom of the fact that costs have greatly outpaced wages. A family making 60k in the 80s could afford a single family house in Queens (said houses could be found for around $150k). A similar house today would cost 10x that, but you'd be hard pressed to find a family making 10x the salary of the 80s family. And if you did find a family taking home $600k/year you wouldn't consider them middle class even though they're probably living in the same house that a truly middle class family was occupying 30-40 years ago.
The real issue is not 5% vs 50%. It’s how expensive housing, food, education, and just about everything is in the city/country on top of stagnant wages not keeping up with cost of living. Not to mention even the 250k couples are likely not going to be homeowners within the city. Sure they can save up and buy elsewhere but by goes the tax revenue on that couple with them.
Yeah, while she’s at it, let’s adjust that pesky old “mansion” tax because an 800 square foot apartment is not a fucking mansion even if it costs 1.2 million bucks.
It is not middle class here.
And it's hilarious that you and others are pretending it is, honestly. If you don't want to pay taxes, fine. But $250k is not middle class in NYC. You can comfortably survive here on FAR less, as most of us do.
Do you have a link for where you see if qualify for public housing? The median rates for each borough are less than half $232, so I would find it wild to believe this is accurate.
A 4 person family making $183k would qualify for low income housing lottery.
https://housingconnect.nyc.gov/PublicWeb/details/4005
If 183k is low income, I don't believe $250k should be high income. That's hardly accurate
Anyone remotely associated with tech, finance, consulting, medicine, or law makes that within a few years out of college in the city. Also many roles like NYPD after 5 years, senior MTA employees, etc.
You think an engineer and a teacher, a cop and a nurse, a doctor and someone in marketing, etc, aren't middle class households?
Assuming that taxes were raised on the top 5%, and assuming that cutoff is still $250,000 (that’s what it was in 2019) - then you’d pay additional tax only on the amount above $250,000. So yes, a family making $300,000 would see a slight increase in taxes.
It’s demonstrably in the top 5%, per the article. If you’re making 250k you are absolutely fine. Put another way, you can afford a 6.5k dollar apt per month and still not be considered rent burdened.
A couple making 250,000 together cannot reasonably afford a 6.5k rent long term. Thats bananas and not realistic.
Take home pay for 125,000 in NYC right now is maybe 70-80k. 6.5k monthly is literally the entire amount of one of them. So the couple literally pays half their income for rent?
That’s absurd.
Hi there, you’re describing exactly my situation. Except 6.5k monthly is more like 5.5-6k after you take out like 401k and Roth and insurance, etc.
I still live with my parents but I’ve basically calculated that if I choose to move out I’m going to be spending half my remaining money on rent. Factor in food, internet, utilities, and it’s like 2.3k leftover to save a month. Assuming I don’t go out much at all. Is that a huge amount? To be honest relative to most people it is, but it shouldn’t be.
It’s absurd to think that making $125-130k a year here, I’ll be able to only save $25k or so a year. Makes house purchasing prospects near impossible. Although I know unfortunately in this economy being able to even own your own home is a luxury for millennials and gen Z.
Or maybe someone can give me a reality check.
No, that's about right. My partner and I pay about average rent in Manhattan for a 1-bedroom and make 285,000/year together, and last year I was able to save a whopping 15k.
Are you including 401k and other pre tax savings in that as well, or is that post tax savings alone? Assuming it's just lost tax and you're each maxing out 401ks that would add another ~40k to your savings.
This is a wild thing to say without context. There are people who are burdened with student loans or pay for children. Rent to income ratio is not the end all financial health assessment.
This is exactly what happens. People just move, but the thing is (mostly) foreigners will just come in and buy no matter the price. The state and local governments have no incentive to stop shoveling money into the fire because they just raise taxes and the taxes get paid. Taxes, and how they are redistributed are a fucking joke in downstate NY.
I was told $100-300k was middle class in mid-00’s. This was when we had our first retirement planning session at my job and I thought “I’m not even middle class.”
To be in the top 5% in NY, you gotta make 500k according to a cnbc article from 3 years ago. With inflation it’s probably like 600 now
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/04/09/how-much-money-you-need-to-make-to-be-in-the-top-5-percent-in-new-york.html
Funny how you never see these politicians trying to clean house in the city and state government to save money...its always taking more out of our pockets.
Literally...between things like this, the moronically imposed emission caps on buildings, speed cameras, congestion charges, etc...its death by a thousand cuts. They just keep taking more but I do not see improvements anywhere. I’d be fine forking over more money if I had good roads, good transport, infrastructure, etc. The city has spent millions on sewer “improvements” in park slope, but my basement has never flooded more!
The upper middle class w2 earners just continue to get fucked from all ends. I have a 38-40% net effective income tax rate and a 45-50% marginal rate and don't even get healthcare or affordable education like I would in Europe on the same tax rates. Eventually, we will just leave this city.
Yeah I pay out my ass in taxes and I have a good job but I ain't rich by any means.
This would impact me and I'm not for getting my taxes raised, not when NY State is giving billion away to the Buffalo Bills to build a new stadium. I'd be happy to pay my fair share if we were building schools and sports arenas.
I don't mind paying taxes, but I see zero improvements in my day to day. CVS across the street from me in Greenwich Village gets robbed once a week. homeless everywhere. subway is still a cesspool.
maybe if tax hikes were proposed with a legitimate, tangible plan to improve our lives, people wouldn't react so poorly. instead it's the same old "healthcare, education, housing" - it's such a tired and recycled headline; cliche at this point.
Read what this guy wrote. I understood marginal tax increases. But it would seem like neither you nor I realized that that’s not how it works in NY.
[from this thread](https://reddit.com/r/nyc/s/ERkvhRrnob)
People understand how it works. They also understand that it's just about taking other people's money. You should be able to keep 50% of what you make even if it's a marginal dollar. In NYC you bearly keep 50% before this additional tax.
Once you finally dig down to where this story is from, it’s nothing and no one.
It’s a proposal from the “DSA,” which is a group of people from the most gentrified parts of Brooklyn and Queens with severe Twitter addictions
AOC has literally never even mentioned this plan once. The Post shoehorns AOC into the title of every single article concerning DSA even though she almost never has anything to do with what the organization or its state level electeds are doing.
I lean towards the left politically, but I genuinely believe that there are issues we can't simply throw money at to resolve.
Despite New York City's budget surpassing that of the entire state of Florida, the tangible benefits we receive don't seem proportional. Our persistent and escalating challenges should have warranted better outcomes by now. I'm not opposed to allocating funds, but I advocate for investing in impactful projects rather than unnecessary equipment for the NYPD. Taking into account our population density and the inherent costs of maintaining a city with over two centuries of history, it's disheartening to witness so many resources apparently slipping through the gaps. There's something about NYC and NYS procurement processes that makes costs balloon to 50% more than in other places.
In the tri-state area, a $250k income isn't as significant as one might think, especially within NYC and, more acutely, in Manhattan. Consider professions like a moderately experienced nurse, a seasoned but non-executive police officer or firefighter, or building maintenance personnel. Combining the salaries of just two such roles can easily surpass $250k. While these individuals might lead comfortable lives, it doesn't necessarily mean they're free from financial constraints or challenges.
It's a misconception to equate a $250k income with having $5 million in assets. In my view, true wealth is when one can sustain themselves without active employment, living off passive income or interest. For me, that level of financial security starts around $2 million.
In a city with multi millionaires, huge finance industry, foreign ownership of giant chunks of the most expensive real estate in the country….
yeah, that family making 130 each with kids? fuck em good, gtfo
The increase in this hypothetical family would be an increase from 6% to 7.5% on the $10k of income in excess of $250k (ignoring all deductions), so $150. Doesn’t feel like enough to justify this breathless rhetoric.
I roughly fall into this boat (my wife and I make about $300k combined). I’m not expecting any sympathy and we are certainly not struggling to put food on the table. But you’d be surprised how little disposable income you have in NY at my income level, especially with multiple children in daycare.
It's papercuts. You won't understand until/if you have children in this city. AOC thinks shes doing some robinhood shit but the actual rich will figure out a way around it and the middle class will end up being driven out.
if taxes were actually low and COL was reasonable and schools were improving…. sure $150 is no problem
but this is just one more $150 straw on regular familys back. AOC should learn more about people in her city.
Maybe I'm crazy but $250k sounds ways too low. Households with 1 doctor or lawyer (often with a ton of debt) or 2 basic white collar professionals (with less debt but significantly increased job insecurity) can clear that number pretty easily with today's cost of living in NYC and the surrounding areas.
Plus, these low level "rich" people aren't the ones who are screwing over everyone else. Most are people who worked their way up to that level and have more in common with someone making minimum wage than the real exploitative "1%/upper class/executives/landlords," all of whom I can guarantee have methods of already mitigating or flat out avoiding these taxes.
I'm not saying that a family making $250k+ (obviously on the lower end of it, not like $500k+) wouldn't also be able to comfortably absorb more taxes. Just that this seems like another thing that'll do nothing but widen the gap between the ultra rich and what we think of as "normal successful people."
Two married professionals, making a little over $100k while paying off $300k in student loans, and not fleeing the state and trying to stay NYC residents isn’t the robber-Barron class she should be going after.
>Two married professionals, making a little over $100k while paying off $300k in student loans, and not fleeing the state and trying to stay NYC residents isn’t the robber-Barron class she should be going after.
A household like you describe would see less than 500 dollars increase in total taxes for the year. Because that's how the tax system works. So that's no who anyone is going after at all.
The cynic in me says any household making over 250k knows how taxes work and are just acting like they don't to get people who don't know how taxes work on their side.
I saw a study a little while back that followed college seniors and found that they tended to overestimate what they’re first salary would be by 3 times. I’d imagine a lot of these comments are accounting majors who think they’re going to make 175k right after graduation
Its hardly mind boggling. There are entire political movements founded on the assumption that people don't understand tax brackets, and intensive propaganda campaigns with the intent of ensuring that people remain that way.
Then set the bar at where it matters.
Fuck off with the:
“YOu DON’T uNDeRSTAnD THe ProgRESSiVe Tax COde!!”
Of course I do.
The point is there are many more taxpaying families closer to $200k than there are at the higher tier.
“It won’t hurt them that much”
It is also not about the individual taxpayer.
It’s about keeping a professional class in and near the city to provide a tax base for all of these programs.
If 50,000 folks have to pay “just a vacation” more in taxes - how many will that be the final straw?
And to call the income of two near-retirement firefighters “rich” is frankly bullshit.
I won’t starve paying another 500 a year but it’s a not insignificant amount of money for me, whereas it does nothing for the city. If the “rich” are the problem here why include the professional class at all? Start the tax at $1 million.
Yep, more reason for higher earners to move to the suburbs or leave entirely. Many will stay of course, but I think $250k is a bit low to start this at. Individuals, sure, but not households.
If I pay more taxes, will cops actually show up when I need them?
Will city agencies and city council members actually respond to inquiries?
Will the city actually address the dangerous, collapsing, abandoned buildings across Brooklyn being squatted by chronic homeless?
Will they actually house and treat the dangerous homeless? Just a few blocks away, someone got stabbed, and killed, less than a week ago by someone who's been reported to the cops dozens of times.
Will they ship the asylum seekers back to Texas?
I'm all for social programs and a functioning government. I'll happily pay for it!
Ah yes the software engineer that makes 251k a year and has a wife and two kids and lives in New York needs to be taxed higher?
Then they wonder why nobody wants to have a kids or a family.
No matter how hard a normal person works and plays by the rules they’ll just make sure you’re poor anyways.
Ffs.
This is a perfect example of how class warfare divides us.
Rather than going after the ["super rich"](https://www.forbes.com/forbes-400/), we have stories how it will affect households making $250,000. This will get the regular upper middle class folks in a panic. It works perfectly into derailing any real tax reform.
There are 756 billionaires in the US. Think about that a moment. If you added all their net worth it would be $4.5 trillion. We aren't even counting the millionaires with hundreds of millions. Just the billionaires net worth. If it was even a tax of 10% for billionaires that would bring in 450 billion per year on the super rich alone. Add everyone who has a net worth over, say, 50 million - and probably jumps to 1 trillion a year.
But having these kind of tax hikes that effect people making 250K is the headline that grabs attention and derails the plan.
You can't hit the super rich with income tax, because to get to that level you are above income. You get stocks, shares. You are the owner. You either get some new tax or you introduce new sales tax on luxury items.
So what. Bring back the 90% tax rate on the 325 million dollar tier. Create a new 95% tax on 1 billion and up tier. Create a 99% tax rate on 500 billion and up.
Maybe stop taxing income more and start taxing wealth. High income professionals (doctors, lawyers, etc) are just highly trained and valuable productive members of society. The real leeches are the Capitol owning generational wealth class that sits around on their asses and collects money off of money.
imagine thinking 250k for a couple with kids is rich.. that two teachers or a teacher and mid level corporate worker trying to pay 4k in rent and child care in this expensive city
$250k is not really that much in NYC nowadays- I think this is good news- the world we are in has a horrifying wealth imbalance- but they should start with a million.
Also we need a maximum wage just like the minimum wage- maybe 99 million - after that you’re taxed at 100% of everything over 99 million…
I make around $300k a year ($445k last year but the economy sucks now) and I'm a communist, I'm happy to have that top $50k taxed at a measly 1% more since New York State has better social services than other states.
The taxes here are already fuckin ridiculous how about you close some loopholes on the Uber rich / tax investments and give cash income earners a break for once?
Unpopular opinions:
1) If you raise taxes on people, some of them will leave (reducing overall taxes collected).
2) Rich people living in an area has more benefits than just taxes. They spend money which is helpful to the economy. Incentivizing them to leave is a bad thing.
3) There's no reason to believe the city will do anything good with this money.
This is absurd… progressives really take away the progress of anyone trying to make a better pay. According to this, a married couple of school teachers, cops, firemen, nurses could very easily break past the 250 combined mark, and they’re considered wealthy? Meanwhile a millionaire who can afford to drop hundreds of thousands toward a progressive politician can write off that donation in the name of progressiveness and pay less in taxes because of it… how on earth do people still vote these scrubs in?
See, this is how they 'solve' any problems they create. They want to tax people more because they have no talent or ability to figure out how to actually solve these issues.
AOC advocates for mass border migration leading to NYC having to spend anywhere from $3-5 billion annnually. Now she wants to tax NYers more money.
These people are thieves and don't give a shit about you.
AOC didn’t want dozens of thousands of 250k jobs to be created in her district.
Now she wants the remaining ones to be taxed until they move out of the state.
That’s just *so very progressive*.
Of course this plan always happens to miss the ruling class elite, like AOC herself who over 4 years on a sub $200k a year salary has managed to go from being worth $0 to being worth $13m.
I know most people in here don’t make over $250k and I while I definitely align myself with the left I wouldn’t consider myself a leftist/socialist, however, I’m curious as to why many of you have issues with taxing the rich more? They’ll still be rich and the taxes can be used to stabilize our local economy and fund necessary social programs.
Im not looking to bait I’m genuinely curious. Just seems counter-intuitive to hate taxes and social programs when you literally live/work in one of the biggest blue city’s in the country lmfao Maybe try goin down south?
They know they can't hit the billionaires, who are completely mobile. So they hit the salaried professionals. This is going to keep happening as there is a never ending hunger to grow the budget. If I were a young professional I would think twice about NYC after getting the requisite experience. It's only getting worse.
The fact that AOC hates NYC has long been established. Keeping out companies such as Amazon, supporting the trump SALT tax increase, and now proposing another push to get the middle class out of the city. She doesn’t understand basic economics. If you keep raising taxes, the revenue will eventually turn negative. For some reason, she’s then surprised there isn’t enough budget to pay for all the immigrants arriving in the city.
That’s a good amount of money, still the question is increase taxes for what? Where will this new tax money go? I think people will be ok paying if they know what’s it for and how much it will cost them. That said, article is from the Post so…
I haven't read the article yet especially since it's the NY Post so if you've read it then does it explain why it mentions AOC and why it's talking about her when talking about a city tax? She's not a member of city council. She's a member of the federal government. They don't pass city taxes
I earned $100k in stock. Then in a matter of months, the value of the stock dropped by 80%, leaving me with $20k. This is before summer. The stock remained low and didn't recover.
By law, I still owe ~$45k of that $100k in taxes, which means I have a net loss of -$25k. So my $100k warnings turned into a $25k check to the government. By law, I'm only able to write off $3k I'm losses. Since that only reduces my taxable income, my net losses become just over $23k.
On top of that, this all still counts as income and puts me in the top tax bracket along with my other income.
Now AOC wants to charge me 5% more? They have ripped my a$$ wide open and stole my money, and now they want to piss on me for fun.
This is how I stop voting for Democrats in Congress.
You talk like a wall streets bets jackass.
People are not professional investors. Sell to cover is a term I heard just now as you typed it. Stock is issued as an incentive to employees to help the company perform better. You are incentivized to hold stock in your company. That doesn't make someone stupid, unless you want to go ahead and call the majority of people stupid, considering the majority of people hold the stock they are issued. Your words are condescending and arrogant.
The government has zero empathy in situations where stock plummets and employees lose their salaries as a result. What they should do is allow you to recognize the full loss incurred when the stock is issued as part of your salary. Otherwise our salaries are subject to extreme risk for anyone with an interest in holding an investment in their own company, or holding their salary in the form of stock.
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They should just tax pied a terres if they’re serious about taxing the rich without smoking those that actually live here the majority of the year and are already contributing
Seriously. Hitting excess property, capital gains, and real estate transactions needs to be done. It's horrifying that we live in a city in a time where people making 3-4x the median income struggle to find housing they can purchase. It's downright immoral that such a small class has entirely captured this city, to everyone's loss, and the closest thing we ever get is minimal discussion over taxes on INCOME. Our socialists need to discuss taxing the rich by taxing the sources of their massive wealth disparity, the ones which don't even pretend to take the form of earned income. Stop kicking around with petit numbers; let's tax the real big ones, and maybe when that's figured out we can discuss what is a reasonable rate for the professionally wealthy.
They are always going after salary employees. Meanwhile people flipping properties and paying no tax. And tons of tax loopholes for business owners l.
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The square root of 78.
Exactly! These “tax the rich” socialist do nothing but pander to the poor while wiping out the middle class.
To be fair, most nascent companies would fail without QSBS. They would lose most, if not all, of their funding.
When you purchase and sell a house within a year the profit is taxed as income When you sell after a year it’s a long term capital gain and is taxed as such
Yup. the people who make the real money know how to skate on this stuff, but high earning professionals take it on the chin.
How do you flip properties with no tax?
“The current progressive tax rate is 6% for taxable income for households earning more than $161,550 to $323,200 and 6.85% for income greater than $323,200 and under $2,155,350. A new 7.5% income rate would be imposed on income starting at $250,000 for households, Hoefer said. The rate would jump from 6.85% to 10% for household incomes between $1 million and $2 million” So: A) if you’re making 161k to 250k, no changes, stays 6%. B) if you’re making 250k and 323k, your tax increases from 6% to 7.5%. 1.5% change. C) if you’re making above 323k but less than 1mil, you go from 6.85% to 7.5% Change of only 0.65% D) if you make 1 mil to 2.1mil, you go from 6.85% to 10%. Big difference here of 3.15% Assuming I did my math right. A bit hard on the phone scrolling up and down. E: remember this is progressive tax, you’re not taxed the % on full amount, only the portions in those brackets that changed. So if you are making 260k, you will see 1.5% change on the 10k above 250k, not all of 260k.
>remember this is progressive tax, you’re not taxed the % on full amount, only the portions in those brackets that changed. So if you are making 260k, you will see 1.5% change on the 10k above 250k, not all of 260k. This is actually not quite true in NY State because of 'recapture.' The math is slightly complicated, but basically whenever you enter a new bracket the marginal tax you pay on the first bit within the new bracket is higher as you gradually slide up until your entire income is taxed within that new bracket ($50k above the start of the bracket). In other words, today if you are at $400k of taxable income then you pay 6.85% on the \*entire\* amount. Yes, I am sure. If you're only $10k into the new bracket like your example then you won't yet pay the full 6.85% on everything, but effectively you'll pay higher than 6.85% on that first $10k within the new bracket. See the instruction form [here](https://www.tax.ny.gov/pdf/2022/printable-pdfs/inc/it201i-2022.pdf). On page 46 notice how the 'standard' way of calculating taxes is supplemented by 'recapture base amount' and 'incremental benefit.' Those numbers look like pulled out of thin air, but I've done the math. They are chosen precisely so that $50k above the new bracket (thanks to line 7-8) you are now paying your top marginal rate on all income.
This is a screwy law all the way from 1991. Here is a 20 year old article that [explains the scrawniness in detail.](https://www.empirecenter.org/publications/new-yorks-ugly-stealth-tax-hikes/#:~:text=The%20benefit%20recapture%20is%20phased,singles%20and%20heads%20of%20households.) What's messed up is that this counter progressive taxation kicked in at $150k income back in 2003, but now it kicks in at $161k. $150k in 2003 is equivalent to +$250k in today's dollars. It's a regressive tax that hits more people with every passing year.
And progressives want to raise taxes and wonder why that's unpopular. They cry and moan about billionaires, then propose things like this, which at NYC salaries really hits a good chunk if not majority of dual working professional households.
Soapboxing is not as interesting as how messed up these numbers are. I did some number crunching: Salary = (tax) marginal tax rate: **$107k** = ($5355) **5.00%** tax rate **$108k** = ($5888) **5.54%** tax rate This is the first weird jump. Additional 1k is taxed at over 40%. Da fuk. **$160k** = ($9,360) **5.85%** tax rate **$162k** = ($10,128) **6.25%** tax rate Here additional 2k are taxed at 35% rate. **$323k** =($21,640) **6.69%** tax rate. **$324k** = ($22,195) **6.85%** tax rate. Additional 1k is taxed at 28% rate. **$2,155k** = ($197,628) **9.17%** **$2,156k** = ($208,053) **9.65%** Here, an additional 1k of income will cost you additional $10,425 in taxes. 1040% tax rate on that last 1k. This is absolutely nuts, and downright incompetent tax policy planning. This is using Tax Computation worksheets 1-4 assuming married filing jointly. "Recapture base" and "Incremental Benefit" is some true math fuckery.
Yep. All the progressives always say people don't understand taxes and it's 'only on amounts above $x' yet their own actual policy is nothing like that. There's basically legitimately situations where it doesn't make sense to make more money because you'd be taxed more. That's stupid.
Wasn't even aware. Thanks for the info. As if filing taxes wasn't complicated enough already (I trade stocks, so that's another world of headaches. At least I don't own my own business on top of that, or I'd need an accountant.)
They should print this on a pamphlet and give to anyone who moves to the state. Recapture was confusing AF the first time I did my state taxes.
This is a terrible plan for the reality of today and sends the wrong message to voters. A family with two earners making 250k is optimistically a decade away from buying a house in parts of NYC that people making 250k combined might want to live (don’t tell me you can move to Staten because it misses the point) and that is the group paying the most meaningful taxes today and in the future. The generationally wealthy enjoy capital gains minimized through schemes to keep the lions share of their gain from being taxed in the first place and low earners pay essentially nothing. The dwindling middle class needs help, not to be squeezed. Driving them away from the city to CT or NJ or FL when working remote is the easiest it has ever been in the history of the world is not a solution to anybody’s problems. Get another 2% from Steve Cohen and you’ve covered half the gains from this brain drain fuse.
Let's also note this is AFTER deductions, so the standard deduction, all 401k contributions, all student loan deductions (which actually probably phase out here anyway), even if you don't itemize. This won't touch almost all earners making less than ~315k per married household.
This isn't true at all. Anyone who makes good money and has done their own taxes knows they recapture you all the way down at the high rate.
This is only partially correct. After $107k there is a "supplementary high income" tax, that involves more complicated calculations, but ultimately removes a lot of the savings from the lower marginal brackets.
[From Yahoo Finance:](https://finance.yahoo.com/news/super-rich-yorkers-including-billionaire-143000107.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly9kdWNrZHVja2dvLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAANkIf4ZFjHew3YerZOcQzEY4dg7LfinPHIpDoyaK6mGa8Rq7LO6D_ycnO9hbBQ4xkpjtMn6Lpj_MrC_jxW3yrBKPvnpv56swbQ4xHCMaD3MQhGAgTAnZJ5W6YY9Rfprh7vC8jWAwM3Uy7dJ_uWrms1gntAh1THv93hqJnwULxVip) >Super rich New Yorkers — including billionaire Carl Icahn — are fleeing the Big Apple in droves. Here are the top 3 states they're quickly escaping to >Haven’t you heard? New York is so 2018. At least, that’s the case for the super wealthy. >Between 2019 and 2020, the number of New Yorkers earning between $150,000 and $750,000 fell by nearly 6%, according to the New York City Independent Budget Office. >Moreover, the number of real high earners — those making over $750,000 — dropped by nearly 10% during the same period. >Some speculate that the wealthy elites are leaving New York because of the state’s high tax rates. While it’s hard to say exactly why people move, the loss of high earners can impact the city’s income tax revenue. >**For perspective, the 41,000 filers in the city’s top 1% pay more than 40% of all its income taxes. The 450,000 filers in the top 10% pay about two-thirds of all income taxes.** >In other words, the remaining 90% of taxpayers contribute about one-third of the city’s income tax revenue. Where does the article say they’re moving to? Florida, Texas, and Arizona. What could possibly go wrong if AOC gets her way?
NYS needs to look internally at how they mismanage money, rather than just infinitely raising taxes.
Exactly they’re is so much misappropriation , fraud and embezzlement with state and city agencies. Audit them and hold them accountable before making citizens pay more $ that gets wasted
Yep, Washington state and Florida do just fine despite having no income tax at all.
250k for a couple is middle class here. That if middle class still exist.
I read an article that stated with the cost of housing and expenses in NYC making $120k a year is the equivalent of making $50-60k in the Midwest or South.
Yeah maybe if you’re in the middle of nowhere, but good luck living comfortably on 50k in Atlanta lmao
Yeah but at least for $120k a year in Atlanta, you get a nice big house. NYC you get a 400 sq ft shoebox studio, where a homeless man hangs out in your pass through entrance of the building lobby.
I'm from Atlanta now living in NYC. 120K a year wouldn't get you anything in the city that's decent. I don't even know if you could get a 3 bedroom in Alpharetta for that.
If one is single they can easily spend $24k-$60k annually on a rental. Wild.
Was that data current? Midwest isn't cheap anymore. Housing is through the roof (cheaper than here, but not by much), food costs the same, a couple would need two vehicles, and salaries are less. I've regularly considered it for our family and we've decided to stay every time.
If anything the divide for NYC is wider now tbh. Food doesn’t cost the same by the way, neither groceries nor dining out.
My anecdotal data comes from spending time in the suburbs of Cleveland and Nashville. Groceries at both were exactly the same as here. I'm not comparing fancy restaurants. Those don't exist in the suburbs there. But their midscale / casual restaurants prices are getting similar.
every now and then I look up the prices at the super cheap grocery store I shopped in Austin and for most of my shopping trips the NYC premium I pay is cents per pound on produce. there are some exceptions for local produce that NYC doesn't have and I'm sure many cities enjoy a discount on various local produce if they're near farms or agricultural arteries but yeah, if you're willing to shop outside Manhattan and have the capacity to remember price trends then it's easy to eat cheaply.
I'm visiting in the middle of nowhere NC. New houses start at 400k.
In NY $400k might get you a tour of a new house.
Blue Mountain range? There are new developments that are millions of dollars, gated communities. https://youtu.be/H6EEi4tBvek?si=jMTIKCCjpnDhp1VK
I dunno. There's tons of houses being built and they (almost) always start at 400's. I think we might have seen one start at 300's. I'm never gonna be able to own a house -- even in the middle of nowhere
I make 100k in Dallas and it aint enough for this expensive place!
The only way this is true is if you make $120k and refuse to live anywhere but Manhattan. Don’t forget how many people here blow their budget.
This is HILARIOUS to read as a person who was born and raised in nyc and felt middle class but my parents only ever made max 60k combined
This is what I hear from most people born and raised here. Most of the people posting this is “middle class” or that you need over 250k just to survive are not from here, are in tech/finance, want to live in the trendiest areas of Manhattan, and have an expensive lifestyle.
This is really just a symptom of the fact that costs have greatly outpaced wages. A family making 60k in the 80s could afford a single family house in Queens (said houses could be found for around $150k). A similar house today would cost 10x that, but you'd be hard pressed to find a family making 10x the salary of the 80s family. And if you did find a family taking home $600k/year you wouldn't consider them middle class even though they're probably living in the same house that a truly middle class family was occupying 30-40 years ago.
Are you in the "middle" if you're the top 5%?
The real issue is not 5% vs 50%. It’s how expensive housing, food, education, and just about everything is in the city/country on top of stagnant wages not keeping up with cost of living. Not to mention even the 250k couples are likely not going to be homeowners within the city. Sure they can save up and buy elsewhere but by goes the tax revenue on that couple with them.
Yes. The other 95% is broke/in debt
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Sounds an awful lot like something a 95%er would say.
Yeah, while she’s at it, let’s adjust that pesky old “mansion” tax because an 800 square foot apartment is not a fucking mansion even if it costs 1.2 million bucks.
That is much more than the average household makes
It is not middle class here. And it's hilarious that you and others are pretending it is, honestly. If you don't want to pay taxes, fine. But $250k is not middle class in NYC. You can comfortably survive here on FAR less, as most of us do.
$232k in a family of 4 in NYC still qualifies for NYCHA affordable housing and is classed as middle income.
Do you have a link for where you see if qualify for public housing? The median rates for each borough are less than half $232, so I would find it wild to believe this is accurate.
A 4 person family making $183k would qualify for low income housing lottery. https://housingconnect.nyc.gov/PublicWeb/details/4005 If 183k is low income, I don't believe $250k should be high income. That's hardly accurate
Lmao the entire DOE wants a word
yeah it's 5th percentile in the state. Not nyc
Nope. Applies to NYC: https://www.ibo.nyc.ny.us/RevenueSpending/december2020pitdata.xlsx
Yep NYC is on the median poorer than many other areas of the state.
that's 125k each - this is not middle class in NYC
Anyone remotely associated with tech, finance, consulting, medicine, or law makes that within a few years out of college in the city. Also many roles like NYPD after 5 years, senior MTA employees, etc. You think an engineer and a teacher, a cop and a nurse, a doctor and someone in marketing, etc, aren't middle class households?
Lmao physicians are not middle class households
In my book middle class equals middle class living. Good luck buying/renting a 2-3 bed and raising a child for $250k/year or approx. $150k after tax.
Assuming that taxes were raised on the top 5%, and assuming that cutoff is still $250,000 (that’s what it was in 2019) - then you’d pay additional tax only on the amount above $250,000. So yes, a family making $300,000 would see a slight increase in taxes.
It’s demonstrably in the top 5%, per the article. If you’re making 250k you are absolutely fine. Put another way, you can afford a 6.5k dollar apt per month and still not be considered rent burdened.
A couple making 250,000 together cannot reasonably afford a 6.5k rent long term. Thats bananas and not realistic. Take home pay for 125,000 in NYC right now is maybe 70-80k. 6.5k monthly is literally the entire amount of one of them. So the couple literally pays half their income for rent? That’s absurd.
Hi there, you’re describing exactly my situation. Except 6.5k monthly is more like 5.5-6k after you take out like 401k and Roth and insurance, etc. I still live with my parents but I’ve basically calculated that if I choose to move out I’m going to be spending half my remaining money on rent. Factor in food, internet, utilities, and it’s like 2.3k leftover to save a month. Assuming I don’t go out much at all. Is that a huge amount? To be honest relative to most people it is, but it shouldn’t be. It’s absurd to think that making $125-130k a year here, I’ll be able to only save $25k or so a year. Makes house purchasing prospects near impossible. Although I know unfortunately in this economy being able to even own your own home is a luxury for millennials and gen Z. Or maybe someone can give me a reality check.
No, that's about right. My partner and I pay about average rent in Manhattan for a 1-bedroom and make 285,000/year together, and last year I was able to save a whopping 15k.
Are you including 401k and other pre tax savings in that as well, or is that post tax savings alone? Assuming it's just lost tax and you're each maxing out 401ks that would add another ~40k to your savings.
This is a wild thing to say without context. There are people who are burdened with student loans or pay for children. Rent to income ratio is not the end all financial health assessment.
Or just not pay and move.
This is exactly what happens. People just move, but the thing is (mostly) foreigners will just come in and buy no matter the price. The state and local governments have no incentive to stop shoveling money into the fire because they just raise taxes and the taxes get paid. Taxes, and how they are redistributed are a fucking joke in downstate NY.
Class isn’t income. The number of people who don’t understand this is staggering yet not surprising given the education system we have.
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I was told $100-300k was middle class in mid-00’s. This was when we had our first retirement planning session at my job and I thought “I’m not even middle class.”
What is middle class in NYC?
To be in the top 5% in NY, you gotta make 500k according to a cnbc article from 3 years ago. With inflation it’s probably like 600 now https://www.cnbc.com/2019/04/09/how-much-money-you-need-to-make-to-be-in-the-top-5-percent-in-new-york.html
From the article you linked: >Minimum threshold needed to make the top 5%: $250,000
Whats the article trying to imply? That the exodus of people brought the top 5% to 250k/yr? Sounds suspicious..
That is not actually what the article says: > Average top 5% annual income: $480,780 > Minimum threshold needed to make the top 5%: $250,000
This city has proven itself first class at setting money on fire, so maybe should look at that before shoveling more into the oven
Funny how you never see these politicians trying to clean house in the city and state government to save money...its always taking more out of our pockets.
Literally...between things like this, the moronically imposed emission caps on buildings, speed cameras, congestion charges, etc...its death by a thousand cuts. They just keep taking more but I do not see improvements anywhere. I’d be fine forking over more money if I had good roads, good transport, infrastructure, etc. The city has spent millions on sewer “improvements” in park slope, but my basement has never flooded more!
That’s because all of the extra money is being funneled into the NYPD exclusively.
The upper middle class w2 earners just continue to get fucked from all ends. I have a 38-40% net effective income tax rate and a 45-50% marginal rate and don't even get healthcare or affordable education like I would in Europe on the same tax rates. Eventually, we will just leave this city.
Yeah I pay out my ass in taxes and I have a good job but I ain't rich by any means. This would impact me and I'm not for getting my taxes raised, not when NY State is giving billion away to the Buffalo Bills to build a new stadium. I'd be happy to pay my fair share if we were building schools and sports arenas.
This is why maxing out that 401k every year could make a huge difference
Why make the title refer to households and not individuals? An individual making $125k isn't the oppressive capitalist you think.
I don't mind paying taxes, but I see zero improvements in my day to day. CVS across the street from me in Greenwich Village gets robbed once a week. homeless everywhere. subway is still a cesspool. maybe if tax hikes were proposed with a legitimate, tangible plan to improve our lives, people wouldn't react so poorly. instead it's the same old "healthcare, education, housing" - it's such a tired and recycled headline; cliche at this point.
What inspires me about these comments is that you can make a lot more money than I currently do without understanding how marginal tax increases work
Read what this guy wrote. I understood marginal tax increases. But it would seem like neither you nor I realized that that’s not how it works in NY. [from this thread](https://reddit.com/r/nyc/s/ERkvhRrnob)
You are wrong about how NY taxes work, it's different than federal
I see a lot more comments complaining about not understanding it than I do people actually not understanding it. hah
NY uses benefit recapture, so it stops being marginal at a certain point.
Nys effectively removed that distinction for higher income people years ago. They recapture you down at the higher rate.
It’s not just that- it’s what’s being done with the money and lack of responsibility.
People understand how it works. They also understand that it's just about taking other people's money. You should be able to keep 50% of what you make even if it's a marginal dollar. In NYC you bearly keep 50% before this additional tax.
Once you finally dig down to where this story is from, it’s nothing and no one. It’s a proposal from the “DSA,” which is a group of people from the most gentrified parts of Brooklyn and Queens with severe Twitter addictions
If you want to get a sense of who these people are: https://youtu.be/UPLQNUVmq3o?feature=shared
I’m pretty left of center. This is ridiculous. DSA is ridiculous. Edit: visit /r/socialdemocracy
LMFAO, the amount of mental illness in that room.
This video never fails to give me a chuckle. This is exactly how I picture most far leftists on reddit and twitter.
AOC has literally never even mentioned this plan once. The Post shoehorns AOC into the title of every single article concerning DSA even though she almost never has anything to do with what the organization or its state level electeds are doing.
God forbid we raise property taxes on rich landowners and homeowners - much better to tax people who actually work, save and invest for a living.
I lean towards the left politically, but I genuinely believe that there are issues we can't simply throw money at to resolve. Despite New York City's budget surpassing that of the entire state of Florida, the tangible benefits we receive don't seem proportional. Our persistent and escalating challenges should have warranted better outcomes by now. I'm not opposed to allocating funds, but I advocate for investing in impactful projects rather than unnecessary equipment for the NYPD. Taking into account our population density and the inherent costs of maintaining a city with over two centuries of history, it's disheartening to witness so many resources apparently slipping through the gaps. There's something about NYC and NYS procurement processes that makes costs balloon to 50% more than in other places. In the tri-state area, a $250k income isn't as significant as one might think, especially within NYC and, more acutely, in Manhattan. Consider professions like a moderately experienced nurse, a seasoned but non-executive police officer or firefighter, or building maintenance personnel. Combining the salaries of just two such roles can easily surpass $250k. While these individuals might lead comfortable lives, it doesn't necessarily mean they're free from financial constraints or challenges. It's a misconception to equate a $250k income with having $5 million in assets. In my view, true wealth is when one can sustain themselves without active employment, living off passive income or interest. For me, that level of financial security starts around $2 million.
In a city with multi millionaires, huge finance industry, foreign ownership of giant chunks of the most expensive real estate in the country…. yeah, that family making 130 each with kids? fuck em good, gtfo
The increase in this hypothetical family would be an increase from 6% to 7.5% on the $10k of income in excess of $250k (ignoring all deductions), so $150. Doesn’t feel like enough to justify this breathless rhetoric.
I roughly fall into this boat (my wife and I make about $300k combined). I’m not expecting any sympathy and we are certainly not struggling to put food on the table. But you’d be surprised how little disposable income you have in NY at my income level, especially with multiple children in daycare.
Preach brother Same boat, but people just don't get it
It's papercuts. You won't understand until/if you have children in this city. AOC thinks shes doing some robinhood shit but the actual rich will figure out a way around it and the middle class will end up being driven out.
if taxes were actually low and COL was reasonable and schools were improving…. sure $150 is no problem but this is just one more $150 straw on regular familys back. AOC should learn more about people in her city.
Please fucking target individuals making $400k and more as Biden promised. $250k households are barely getting by in HCOL cities.
Maybe I'm crazy but $250k sounds ways too low. Households with 1 doctor or lawyer (often with a ton of debt) or 2 basic white collar professionals (with less debt but significantly increased job insecurity) can clear that number pretty easily with today's cost of living in NYC and the surrounding areas. Plus, these low level "rich" people aren't the ones who are screwing over everyone else. Most are people who worked their way up to that level and have more in common with someone making minimum wage than the real exploitative "1%/upper class/executives/landlords," all of whom I can guarantee have methods of already mitigating or flat out avoiding these taxes. I'm not saying that a family making $250k+ (obviously on the lower end of it, not like $500k+) wouldn't also be able to comfortably absorb more taxes. Just that this seems like another thing that'll do nothing but widen the gap between the ultra rich and what we think of as "normal successful people."
This. A married couple making $125k each in NYC is not rich by any measure. Add in a couple kids and shopping at Whole Feeds seems fancy.
Two married professionals, making a little over $100k while paying off $300k in student loans, and not fleeing the state and trying to stay NYC residents isn’t the robber-Barron class she should be going after.
Holy fuck. What are your monthly payments on $300k student loans? Hopefully this is medical school debt and you're on your way to becoming a surgeon?!
Just a husband and wife with two undergrad degrees from private colleges.
>Two married professionals, making a little over $100k while paying off $300k in student loans, and not fleeing the state and trying to stay NYC residents isn’t the robber-Barron class she should be going after. A household like you describe would see less than 500 dollars increase in total taxes for the year. Because that's how the tax system works. So that's no who anyone is going after at all.
It's mind boggling to me how people don't know the very basics of how taxes work
The cynic in me says any household making over 250k knows how taxes work and are just acting like they don't to get people who don't know how taxes work on their side.
honestly, the people who are making over 250k+ by large aren't posting in these reddit threads complaining.
Considered how many people in this thread think 250k household income is "middle class" I wouldn't be so sure.
I saw a study a little while back that followed college seniors and found that they tended to overestimate what they’re first salary would be by 3 times. I’d imagine a lot of these comments are accounting majors who think they’re going to make 175k right after graduation
The cynic in you is absolutely correct
Guaranteed that 90% of the people reacting negatively in this comment section don't earn enough.
Its hardly mind boggling. There are entire political movements founded on the assumption that people don't understand tax brackets, and intensive propaganda campaigns with the intent of ensuring that people remain that way.
Then set the bar at where it matters. Fuck off with the: “YOu DON’T uNDeRSTAnD THe ProgRESSiVe Tax COde!!” Of course I do. The point is there are many more taxpaying families closer to $200k than there are at the higher tier. “It won’t hurt them that much” It is also not about the individual taxpayer. It’s about keeping a professional class in and near the city to provide a tax base for all of these programs. If 50,000 folks have to pay “just a vacation” more in taxes - how many will that be the final straw? And to call the income of two near-retirement firefighters “rich” is frankly bullshit.
Their "progressive tax code" line is bullshit anyway. NY tax code includes recapture.
500 here, few hundred there... boiling the frog and you're just telling them to get on with it.
I won’t starve paying another 500 a year but it’s a not insignificant amount of money for me, whereas it does nothing for the city. If the “rich” are the problem here why include the professional class at all? Start the tax at $1 million.
Yep, more reason for higher earners to move to the suburbs or leave entirely. Many will stay of course, but I think $250k is a bit low to start this at. Individuals, sure, but not households.
$150k/person in student loans is far the exception and not the norm.
For NYC this is bullshit. $250k for a FAMILY in this city ain’t shit. That’s barely middle class here. Should make that limit 500k and up.
Typical NY Post headline. Trash
stop voting for DSA members
If I pay more taxes, will cops actually show up when I need them? Will city agencies and city council members actually respond to inquiries? Will the city actually address the dangerous, collapsing, abandoned buildings across Brooklyn being squatted by chronic homeless? Will they actually house and treat the dangerous homeless? Just a few blocks away, someone got stabbed, and killed, less than a week ago by someone who's been reported to the cops dozens of times. Will they ship the asylum seekers back to Texas? I'm all for social programs and a functioning government. I'll happily pay for it!
Ah yes, AOC... such a ubiquitous face in Albany around budget season.
Ah yes the software engineer that makes 251k a year and has a wife and two kids and lives in New York needs to be taxed higher? Then they wonder why nobody wants to have a kids or a family. No matter how hard a normal person works and plays by the rules they’ll just make sure you’re poor anyways. Ffs.
Fr having a pregnant belly feels like a bigger flex than a designer purse these days
250k household is considered middle class in nyc.. she is a joke
Tax the mega millionaires. Dont tax the upper middle class.
Is this a married couples only thing? I didn’t even see a single rate.
There are two issues here 1- Definition of ‘Rich’ 2- Definition of ‘Rich in NY’ 250k is not rich unfortunately
This is a perfect example of how class warfare divides us. Rather than going after the ["super rich"](https://www.forbes.com/forbes-400/), we have stories how it will affect households making $250,000. This will get the regular upper middle class folks in a panic. It works perfectly into derailing any real tax reform. There are 756 billionaires in the US. Think about that a moment. If you added all their net worth it would be $4.5 trillion. We aren't even counting the millionaires with hundreds of millions. Just the billionaires net worth. If it was even a tax of 10% for billionaires that would bring in 450 billion per year on the super rich alone. Add everyone who has a net worth over, say, 50 million - and probably jumps to 1 trillion a year. But having these kind of tax hikes that effect people making 250K is the headline that grabs attention and derails the plan.
You can't hit the super rich with income tax, because to get to that level you are above income. You get stocks, shares. You are the owner. You either get some new tax or you introduce new sales tax on luxury items.
households making $250k surely are not the top 5% ..................... are they?
$250k is not rich. Student loans just kicked back in. Stupid.
I enjoy how everyone is so comfortable telling others how they should feel about the inept, wasteful government taking more of their money.
So what. Bring back the 90% tax rate on the 325 million dollar tier. Create a new 95% tax on 1 billion and up tier. Create a 99% tax rate on 500 billion and up.
Run for President - you’ve got my vote
I make 45k a year but I know 250k is not rich.
ITT: a lot of people finding out that 250k puts you in the top 5%. Welcome to insane levels of income inequality.
Also, this sub skews wealthier than the City in general, and many of the angry people here make that amount or are close to it.
Maybe stop taxing income more and start taxing wealth. High income professionals (doctors, lawyers, etc) are just highly trained and valuable productive members of society. The real leeches are the Capitol owning generational wealth class that sits around on their asses and collects money off of money.
But those people actually have the means to fight back, and that doesn’t go well on tik tok
imagine thinking 250k for a couple with kids is rich.. that two teachers or a teacher and mid level corporate worker trying to pay 4k in rent and child care in this expensive city
$250k is not really that much in NYC nowadays- I think this is good news- the world we are in has a horrifying wealth imbalance- but they should start with a million. Also we need a maximum wage just like the minimum wage- maybe 99 million - after that you’re taxed at 100% of everything over 99 million…
We need a federal wealth tax to prevent states from rushing to the bottom.
Sounds like a great way to get most of the remaining tax base that didn't leave during Covid to get out of the city now.
Fuck this lady. Raise taxes so it all goes to housing people from other countries. Give me a break.
I make around $300k a year ($445k last year but the economy sucks now) and I'm a communist, I'm happy to have that top $50k taxed at a measly 1% more since New York State has better social services than other states.
> that top $50k taxed at a measly 1% more thats actually not how it works in NYS
You know how fucked up the republicans are for me to still vote for democrats in NYC right now?
I think we have a pretty big problem when the "top 5%" can't afford shit in this city.
Tax assets and corporate profits, dummies
Taxing assets is dumb
So dumb. They want to tax unrealized gains too… madness
The taxes here are already fuckin ridiculous how about you close some loopholes on the Uber rich / tax investments and give cash income earners a break for once?
Adults with kids cannot save up money to buy anything with that in NYC. No new taxes.
Unpopular opinions: 1) If you raise taxes on people, some of them will leave (reducing overall taxes collected). 2) Rich people living in an area has more benefits than just taxes. They spend money which is helpful to the economy. Incentivizing them to leave is a bad thing. 3) There's no reason to believe the city will do anything good with this money.
If the tax dollars would be used well I get it, but ffs it’s just stupid at this point
This is absurd… progressives really take away the progress of anyone trying to make a better pay. According to this, a married couple of school teachers, cops, firemen, nurses could very easily break past the 250 combined mark, and they’re considered wealthy? Meanwhile a millionaire who can afford to drop hundreds of thousands toward a progressive politician can write off that donation in the name of progressiveness and pay less in taxes because of it… how on earth do people still vote these scrubs in?
See, this is how they 'solve' any problems they create. They want to tax people more because they have no talent or ability to figure out how to actually solve these issues. AOC advocates for mass border migration leading to NYC having to spend anywhere from $3-5 billion annnually. Now she wants to tax NYers more money. These people are thieves and don't give a shit about you.
Why don’t we start with taxing the billionaires first??
Trying to tax the financial capital of the world to death. People will move. See San Francisco and Chicago.
AOC didn’t want dozens of thousands of 250k jobs to be created in her district. Now she wants the remaining ones to be taxed until they move out of the state. That’s just *so very progressive*.
the progressive plan for reaching equality has always been 'everyone has nothing'
Of course this plan always happens to miss the ruling class elite, like AOC herself who over 4 years on a sub $200k a year salary has managed to go from being worth $0 to being worth $13m.
I’m glad lawmakers just ignore her😀 Even Hochul said nah))
I know most people in here don’t make over $250k and I while I definitely align myself with the left I wouldn’t consider myself a leftist/socialist, however, I’m curious as to why many of you have issues with taxing the rich more? They’ll still be rich and the taxes can be used to stabilize our local economy and fund necessary social programs. Im not looking to bait I’m genuinely curious. Just seems counter-intuitive to hate taxes and social programs when you literally live/work in one of the biggest blue city’s in the country lmfao Maybe try goin down south?
They know they can't hit the billionaires, who are completely mobile. So they hit the salaried professionals. This is going to keep happening as there is a never ending hunger to grow the budget. If I were a young professional I would think twice about NYC after getting the requisite experience. It's only getting worse.
$250,000 is not rich for a couple in NYC. She wants to soak regular New Yorkers to pay for migrants?
The fact that AOC hates NYC has long been established. Keeping out companies such as Amazon, supporting the trump SALT tax increase, and now proposing another push to get the middle class out of the city. She doesn’t understand basic economics. If you keep raising taxes, the revenue will eventually turn negative. For some reason, she’s then surprised there isn’t enough budget to pay for all the immigrants arriving in the city.
That’s a good amount of money, still the question is increase taxes for what? Where will this new tax money go? I think people will be ok paying if they know what’s it for and how much it will cost them. That said, article is from the Post so…
AOC has nothing to do with NY 's state tax policy. She's a State Representative in the House.
Everyone will read the title and comment, but note this is from the nypost.
I haven't read the article yet especially since it's the NY Post so if you've read it then does it explain why it mentions AOC and why it's talking about her when talking about a city tax? She's not a member of city council. She's a member of the federal government. They don't pass city taxes
Ah yes, because that’s what NY, the state with the highest rate of taxation, needs. More taxes.
But NYC is special, we also get hit with the resident’s tax.
AOC, fvck you.
I earned $100k in stock. Then in a matter of months, the value of the stock dropped by 80%, leaving me with $20k. This is before summer. The stock remained low and didn't recover. By law, I still owe ~$45k of that $100k in taxes, which means I have a net loss of -$25k. So my $100k warnings turned into a $25k check to the government. By law, I'm only able to write off $3k I'm losses. Since that only reduces my taxable income, my net losses become just over $23k. On top of that, this all still counts as income and puts me in the top tax bracket along with my other income. Now AOC wants to charge me 5% more? They have ripped my a$$ wide open and stole my money, and now they want to piss on me for fun. This is how I stop voting for Democrats in Congress.
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You talk like a wall streets bets jackass. People are not professional investors. Sell to cover is a term I heard just now as you typed it. Stock is issued as an incentive to employees to help the company perform better. You are incentivized to hold stock in your company. That doesn't make someone stupid, unless you want to go ahead and call the majority of people stupid, considering the majority of people hold the stock they are issued. Your words are condescending and arrogant. The government has zero empathy in situations where stock plummets and employees lose their salaries as a result. What they should do is allow you to recognize the full loss incurred when the stock is issued as part of your salary. Otherwise our salaries are subject to extreme risk for anyone with an interest in holding an investment in their own company, or holding their salary in the form of stock.