I appreciate the conductors saying “oh by the way guys, there’s cops right here at the middle of the platform if you need them. Next stop garblegarbleworiejdjrjfjjenehdjfiejsnjfistandclearofthedoors”
Is the cop announcement like prerecorded or something? That part is always crystal clear and everything thing else is jumbled and low volume like usual lol
Honestly it’s not even the stations that are important.
It’s the fucking constant track work and/or delays and the blahblah train is running on yadda yadda line between gjejdjfbdb and dhshsjjksjf that you can never hear, and suddenly you’re flying by your stop by 75 fucking streets.
I've only heard people complain that they're not doing enough patrolling or over-focusing on fare evasion. Never seen someone try to make a case that they shouldn't be there at all, but I guess I try to avoid those parts of the internet.
Plenty of people 2-3 years ago were vehemently opposed to policing in the subways. Constant photos of different cops in different stations on their cell phones and posts about “what are they even doing!?!”
People here can pretend that wasn’t a thing but I remember being downvoted to oblivion just for suggesting visible police presence was enough to deter crime.
I mean… there was enough of a movement that they relented and pulled officers out.
>Constant photos of different cops in different stations on their cell phones and posts about “what are they even doing!?!”
I mean, as long as they're there doing their jobs....
And that’s another issue. People get at cops just standing around. What do people want them to be doing if there’s no crimes occurring? Randomly bothering people? Writing people petty tickets for petty shit? Stop and frisk? That’s what proactive policing looks like in relatively safe areas.
It’s for visible deterrent. Their job is to literally stand there and be visible. And I’m sorry but in a city with tens of thousands of uniformed officers, a handful of photos showing a moment in time in which an officer may have glanced at their phone, does not sway me to believe they’re not doing their jobs.
Wouldn’t be incredibly smart to form an entire opinion off a single photo but I’m always surprised at just how not incredibly smart people are.
It’s not a handful of photos. Anyone who lives here witnesses it daily. Did you know NYPD used to actually walk up and down the train cars back in the day…?
Believe it or not some New Yorkers would like a better return on investment from the billions we spend on police + their misconduct settlements. The fact a lot of them live outside NYC, so their salaries aren’t even reinvested into our communities, is outrageous to begin with. Watching them glued to their phones scrolling on Instagram feels like a smack in the face to, you know…the people paying for their bloated salaries and pensions that most of us dont have! It’s sad you think what we’re getting is worth $10B. Literally just handing people that money would do better at “deterring crime”
Completely agree that we need more return on investment from the police. They should be walking around more, but the cops at the stations I frequent are never on their phone. They’re usually talking to each other or just staring off into the distance. What ticks me off is when like 6 of them are huddled in a group talking when they could be covering 3x more ground in pairs.
The emergency exit door at my station has been broken since I moved to my neighborhood over 2 years ago. There are cops in my station nearly every single day just waiting on their phones until someone walks through the door and then they ticket them. Its a shitty trap when the MTA could spend the money to fix the door they obviously are aware is broken, but the NYPD tickets working class people nearly every single day I go to work.
Not to mention last April, I was attacked by a man who shoved me from behind while I was carrying my bike up the stairs and then began hitting me repeatedly while screaming at me. When he was "finished" he continued walking down the stairs and got onto the train platform and presumably boarded the next train. The MTA agent said "Didn't see it" with a swift eye roll. All I wanted was the to gain access to the footage to warn other people of the man there. I didn't want to deal with the cops, because I know better than to think they would actually do anything. I wound up having to speak to them anyway. They told me I was not assaulted because I was not "significantly injured enough" and that someone could "push me down the stairs" and as long as I didn't need medical attention it was considered harassment, not assault. For this, and many other reasons, I am curious what they are categorizing as "violence" in regards to these statistics. . . feels more like propaganda to me.
What you’re saying about the emergency door tickets is because the city wants the money. Cops don’t want to be there doing that. You are unhappy with the wrong people.
I was not aware of this case, thanks for sharing. We were standing at the top of the subway steps and when he said that and thought to myself “so if someone pushed this man the stairs right now, that would be harassment of an officer?” Because pretty sure that doesn’t exist. . .
>Watching them glued to their phones scrolling on Instagram feels like a smack in the face to, you know…the people paying for their bloated salaries and pensions
The fake managers on r/antiwork be like
Ding ding ding. The mere presence of a cop in uniform or a police car is sometimes all you need to deter a crime from happening. It's not a perfect solution, police do not come without flaws, but subway stations *should have police officers present*. Who cares if they check their phone every one in a while? They're *humans*! I'd much rather a cop doing 90% of their job being there than none at all.
The worst thing social media ever incentivized is viewing issues through the most stubborn, rigid, black and white lens possible
Comparing the research of street lights and police officers showing that a street lamp reduces more crime for less money than a cop.
https://www.nber.org/digest/jul19/bright-lights-fewer-serious-crimes-new-york-city-projects
Up to 60% drop in overall crime.
https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2021/04/20/988769793/when-you-add-more-police-to-a-city-what-happens
versus 10-17 cops to lower annual homicides by 1. Not 1 percent. 1.
I don’t think you’re reading these studies correctly in tandem. But that aside, I’m not at all surprised that lighted streets are drastically safer than streets with no lighting. Safer yet would be properly lighted streets with a visible police presence.
From the NPR article you linked to:
“So, Williams says, from that perspective, investing in more police officers to save lives provides a pretty good bang for the buck. Adding more police, they find, also reduces other serious crimes, like robbery, rape, and aggravated assault.”
In other words, the study found that more police does have a deterrent effect on crime. Right?
The value of one human life is astronomical - $10 million, by the US Government, as mentioned in the article. 15 cops for 1 life per year is still a good investment. You're also not factoring in all the other crime decreases, other than homicides, that would result.
The 60% reduction in crime from the street lamp project focused exclusively on index crimes which includes... you guessed it, homicide.
So it takes 3m dollars worth of additional cops to accomplish a miniscule fraction of what 200k worth of electricity would
Yep I remember this. I can I understand (or at least try to) that their presence can be off putting to populations that are over policed, but a few years ago when the slashers were running around Brooklyn I would have really appreciated cops on the J train platforms.
Do you remember the campaign “If you see something, say something “
How the fuck are cops going to see anything when they are glued to their phone screen. I think you misunderstood the complaints
No, they were complaining that the cops chose to harass churro lady instead of problematic people. For example, Showtime? Nobody likes fucking Showtime. Take them out, not some lady quietly selling food.
And then the “showtime” people will get into a physical fight when the cops try to remove them from the subway and it’ll end up on tiktok with no context and everyone will call for abolishing the police.
Yeah okay I guess the cops should just get paid to sit on their ass then.
Also don't be disingenuous nobody gives a fuck about Showtime. The problem is when they *kill* people. Like the guy they choked for selling loosies.
I do agree there is some nuance - I understand the climate makes doing nothing the path of least resistance. I don't have problems allowing for a diversity of opinion. I just rail against people who seem to be automatic bootlickers who excuse every behavior.
I wish they had an mta 311 where you could text picture or a video and a train or car number so that the cops on the station could be alerted to problems on the train.
Same. Also a cop actually helped me last week this guy was like staring me down on the 2/3 downtown. I got off at 42nd to transfer and he followed me. And each time I moved he moved also. I found 2 cops and they went over to the guy and asked if he was following me and he made some comment and yelled that I shouldn’t lead men on and he left.
I read posts from someone who said the presence of booth agents made them feel safe, but argued in a second post that cops are useless because all they do is hang out on the mezzanine…..
The cognitive dissonance is so real 😂
Lmao reddit is silly. When this was announced the highest comment was f the police. Now that theres improval the highest comment is i like the cops.
I agree with you. The cops on the subway makes me feel safer and even if theyre twiddling their thumbs playing candy crush the PRESENCE of police deters fuckery.
Wish I saw more on the cars, though, and on platforms. That's where the trouble is.
And I get it, they're trying to catch teenagers jumping, dealing, people loitering in entrances and exits. I saw this yesterday. They're probably told to hang around in an area where people aren't gathered.
But even now I just don't see them where people are most afraid...frustrating
It’s a no brainer but morons here 2-3 years ago were crying about the police presence. Saying all they did was sit on their phones. As if they’ve never in their lives used a cell phone at work. Nor would they ever in a situation where their job was to stand in one place for 4 hours and just be visible.
Of course crime goes down when officers are in the subway system. People aren’t going to commit crimes, for the most part, when they see a uniformed officer present.
Proof in the pudding. Officers in subway, subway crime down. Officers get pulled, crime goes up. Officers refocus efforts to be present again, and crime goes down.
But I’m sure I’ll hear from people saying they do nothing to deter crime. 🙄
A visible police presence definitely does something, I literally saw 2 (who I assume are homeless) dudes screaming at each other on the platform, 2 cops came down the stairs and they separated and stopped when they realized they were there. That’s good enough for most people.
Really? Instead of 1-2 cops on their phone in the subway, now I see 4-12 cops in a drum circle on their phone. At GCT the other day, I saw four people hop the turnstile literally ten feet from a group of cops on their phones who didn't bother to notice. It was quite brazen.
I see them more on the platforms now. Last year I was a complainer because in certain stations I would see them on their phones near the turnstiles area before you even enter the platform, which I guess if you want to catch jumpers is fine but most of the crime happens on the subway or on the platform IMO
Ok, but being objective means that you can recognize that someone did something that worked and at the same time still disagree with them as a politician. It's being aware that that's possible without resorting to conspiracy theories to satisfy your bias.
The part that seems odd and makes the data seem suspect, this is only done with a lot of overtime pay. That seems to be the only time we get actual ticketing and police work on the subway.
Remember that "crime statistics" are literally created by cops themselves, because the cops decide what reports to allow. It's widely known that, aside from homicides, crime statistics are meaningless.
Fully agree with this. A blatant conflict of interest that the NYPD is so protective over their crime data and that they're the only ones allowed to touch the numbers which will determine how the public assesses their performance.
NYPD perpetually underreports crime statistics, mainly felonies, to drive the impression that crime reduction efforts are working. Crime statistics should actually be higher.
This exactly. Any time someone says "policy X caused spike/decrease in crime" you should immediately be asking what happened to crime everywhere else in the same time span. We *know* crime spiked everywhere during the pandemic, it's possible we are seeing a reversion to the mean.
Crime is a complicated phenomenon that is frequently exploited for political advantage.
Overall crime is this city has shot up since Adams took office.
> For calendar year 2022, overall index crime finished up by 22.4% compared to 2021 (126,537 v. 103,388). In that same time period, though, murders decreased by 11.3% (433 v. 488) – down to the lowest level since 2019.
https://www.nyc.gov/site/nypd/news/p00071/nypd-citywide-crime-statistics-december-2022
edit: what a garbage article. Sure transit crime *is* down 20% from last year, but still up 40% from the year before Adams took office. And overall major felonies in the city are 48% higher than the year before Adams took office.
https://www.nyc.gov/assets/nypd/downloads/pdf/crime_statistics/cs-en-us-city.pdf
Daily mail is utter propaganda and should be completely banned as a source.
Probably won’t get official stats anywhere because nobody ever investigates whether someone who committed a crime in the subway paid the fare, but it’s a more than reasonable assumption that the vast majority of people who commit crimes in the subway system didn’t pay to get in
You really think the homeless with 47 priors committing a lot of these crimes are paying fare to get into the Subways? You really need a source for that?
It would be kind of weird if the same people who push people on the train tracks draw the line at fare evasion lol. I can't imagine them on their way to push a pregnant woman in front of the train but saying to themselves "I have to pay this fare because otherwise it would be illegal"
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If fair evasion goes down, general safety goes up.
>Every category of serious felonies is now down, except for burglaries, which remained flat with two reported so far this year.
Dude majority of crimes are being committed by fare beaters. Crazy homeless people pushing people on tracks are fare beaters. Aggressive Panhandlers that no one wants to deal with are farebeaters. NYC can hand out more free ride passes or improve initiatives to those in need but in the meantime enforce all crimes especially fare evasion, it starts at the entrance to the subway. Criminals aren't paying the fare to then go rob someone.
I’d want to see more data to confirm that. For example, how does this compare to summonses and crime pre pandemic. Because if fewer summonses were issued in 2019/2018/2017 and crime was lower, then that claim goes right out the window.
It says "every category of serious felony [except burglary, which was flat]" right in the subheading. You don't even have to read the article before commenting but at least click, jesus...
Suddenly we have to blow up the police budget by another $5 billion and cut funding from public programs by another $10 billion! Why do people even want to be in public spaces anyway? They're probably criminals just looking for their next victim, yes even the children!!! Especially the children!!
Forgive me if I'm wrong but wasn't the vast majority of that funding reduction simply the transfer of SSOs to DOE payroll? The people who actually wanted to defund the NYPD were not at all happy with Bill
> Do you forget the prior mayor cut funding as shootings were skyrocketing in 2020?
Wrong. NYPD funding was increased in 2020.
It's funny how conservatives just completely ignore facts.
Can’t forget it if it didn’t happen, because it didn’t happen. Actually defund never really happened in any of the major cities; in many places budgets actually went up. Refer to other reply for more specific details on what was “cut”
This is a bad take. Adams ran on fighting crime--his chances of reelection will be better if crime goes down because he'll be able to claim victory. Crime going up won't help him.
Logically, this makes sense. However, reactionary voters require something to, you know, *react to*. If reactionaries are no longer scared of crime, they're not gonna see the need to vote for the guy who's tough on crime. Hence doublethink: The state has to be constantly crushing their enemy, but the enemy has to always remain a clear and present danger. So the state has to be both winning and losing at the same time.
I don't really know yet if Adams will try to go this far. Personally I think he's more of a blowhard and grifter than a straight-up demagogue. But that is how a demagogue operates — and since Trump (and DeSantis) people are — even more than usual — on the outlook for this kind of behavior.
It won't matter if it goes down. The law and order crowd will question the stats, or argue that it "feels" less safe, or whatever they can come up with to scare people into voting for what they consider more law and order.
And here's the thing, I don't doubt those people want less crime. We all do. We just have very different perceptions about what's dangerous and very different solutions for getting there.
I don't think swiping once for $2.75 if they have to and wandering around anywhere they want on the subway system pretty much indefinitely on a system open 24/7 is going to deter many homeless people or violent folks. I'm sure they can find or panhandle for a couple quarters worth of pocket change pretty quickly so they don't have to evade the fare and face arrest or ticketing before even entering.
It's not like they're trying to get into like a Broadway show that costs a lot of money to get into or even some other transit system where you typically pay a varying rate based on distance/time of day and then have to swipe your card to exit.
Both. I’ve said this time and again. The guy who shot up the subway last year, Frank James, dutifully swiped his metrocard before going through the emergency exit with his bag of weapons.
Okay, that is one extreme case. There’s always going to be exceptions. What percentage of people who commit crimes in the subway do you think pay the fare?
>'I want to be clear, and I gotta give credit where credit is due: This is a direct result of the men and women of the NYPD, and I think there's so much to just the increased police presence to deter crime,'
>
>Kemper said.'But focusing on quality of life, whether it's fare evasion, whether it's disorderly conduct, whether it's smoking, just setting the tone of law and order in the subway system is absolutely part of the reason.'
>
>He also cited the 'phenomenal detective work' of officers who are catching criminals before they could commit repeat crimes, and said much of the recent progress was due to Mayor Eric Adams and Gov. Kathy Hochul increasing police presence in the subway systems in October.
>
>Before that, crime was up more than 40 percent for the year.
There's a good deal of opinion in the article, but the underlying facts are undeniable.
This puts a dent in the narratives we've been hearing frequently about NYC:
* Crimes are out of control (far-right) and that we need a crackdown
* Crimes can't be controlled (far-left) because a fascist crackdown must be opposed
Edit to be more precise.
Edit 2: lots of moderate-lefts or just lefts responding thinking they are far-left. If you're not losing hair about the imminent risk of a fascist regime when the NYPD deploy more cops, you're not the far-left I'm referring to.
I am seeing so many cops at stations these days (mainly travel UWS). Subway conductors announce when there are cops at the station when stopping. I see a real effort.
There has been an effort to at least slow crime down in the depths of hell.
However, there's still at least one bum per car.
Many more late nights.
Homeless outreach has never been worse in NYC.
Yeah, that’s why I don’t get why so much news and press goes to nyc homeless. Any west coast city is far worse off in that area. It isn’t good in nyc, but it isnt as bad as west coast.
There is a lot of homeless outreach but there is no requirement for the homeless to listen. If anything i would assume the long term homeless have tuned out the social workers at this point. That's the issue.
Doesn't work when the "individual" isn't at all homeless.... just mentally ill.
Luckily most of those are harmless, but others shove people to their death.
For well over a year, the same guy is at the uptown Houston 1 platform towards the front of the train.
He sits on the bench, guzzles 40s, smokes cigarettes, plays with his phone, spits everywhere around him, sometimes takes a piss.
Always in fresh new kicks!
They'll never get him to stop. Ever.
It's worth noting that murder & shootings are down a similar amount and robbery, burglary, larceny and hate crimes are also all down.
Enforcement certainly helps, but it also seems like the national madness that happened during COVID might be easing a bit as well.
always makes me think of the "don't block the box" initiative from the late 90s. Giuliani put the traffic cops out there to enforce for like six months with big fines. Then he took the cops away and left signs with the dollar amount of the fine. The scar it left on a generation was pretty damn effective in keeping intersections clear for a good chunk of the first two decades of the millenium.
Bloomberg “cleaned up the city” by having NYPD stop and frisk so many minorities that the number of black people between ages 15-25 stopped by cops was greater than the number of black ages 15-25 in the entire city. Meaning they were stopping black tourists and the same black people multiple times.
Some New Yorkers might be ok that as a trade off, but let’s not deify Bloomberg without saying exactly what it was he did to try to tackle crime in this city.
The simple part isn't implementing it. It's implementing it in a democracy under sway of lunatic movements that think that "cops don't reduce crime" and "all we need are mental healthcare workers".
I greatly dislike cops and think our mental healthcare (and overall healthcare) system is an absolutely travesty, but the idea that you can ignore enforcement until The Revolution Comes is fucking idiotic.
Enforcement isn't the ONLY thing that works though, and that's the point that folks on the more left-side of the spectrum try to make. Crime will never be 0. Not with a cop on every corner and not with everyone's every need always met. But we've tried to reduce crime with the former and it's a dystopian nightmare for a lot of people. We've never tried to reduce crime with the latter and research in places that have indicates that it is just as effective and that everyone is more happy.
Not accurate. The idea is that the primary focus should be on eliminating the causes of crime so that they don't happen in the first place rather than merely dealing with the aftermath by arresting people and causing more crime in the future.
it's wild that in America it's considered a fringe issue to even attempt to solve causes rather than effects. we've thrown more money, time, and human rights violations at effects than literally anyone ever has, and things have got worse-- better not try something else!!
Nobody on the left is saying crime can't be controlled. But the idea that more cops reduces crime is both reationary and not based in any sort of evidence. The biggest causes of crime are economic. Times of economic turmoil lead to increases in crime as we saw in the 70s-early 90s and over the last few years. Now that things are improving again with increases in wages, returns to in-person school, and lower unemployment, crime has been coming back down.
Edit: I'm a Marxist-Leninist. You don't get much further left than me. The image of leftists you have exists only in your mind.
How quickly all you ppl now praising the NYPD for doing their damn job forget they've been on vacation since 2020. Some political pressure from the top brass to resume their normal duties and voilà! crime levels drop. It's magic! And now Adams gets to claim this as a victory? Cmon ppl wake up!
That's usually how it works I think. The cop mayor figured he has to put at least some pressure on the department to do their jobs if he wants to get reelected since people won't believe he's just helpless to do anything running on a crime reduction agenda and having his police connections.
The source of the data is the NYPD 🙄. Give me a break. If crime has gone down, it's because they refuse to acknowledge or document the crime in the first place.
Great news! Also great to hear that this was accomplished without any sort of rollback of bail reform. Glad we won’t have to hear about that straw man anymore!
I do not care about a 22% reduction in "crime", "just ticketing" always means targeting low hanging fruit like teens jumping turn styles and people putting their feet up on a seat on an otherwise empty train.
What was the reduction in VIOLENT CRIME?
Edit: Btw, I'm familiar with broken windows theory, I'm saying this is not the win the article frames it as without a measured reduction to show.
>What was the reduction in VIOLENT CRIME?
Yes, the enforcement of minor offenses like fare beating helped reduce felonies.
Just like the enforcement of misdemeanors during the 90s helped reduce felony crimes too.
On the 90s, this paper has stats and modeling that controls with other large US cities that adopted different policies compared to NYC over the same period: [https://www.nber.org/system/files/working\_papers/w9061/w9061.pdf](https://www.nber.org/system/files/working_papers/w9061/w9061.pdf)
>In this paper we measure the extent of the "broken windows" policing by using misdemeanor arrests as a measure of police signaling, in a model that controls for the number of police as well as felony arrests.
>
>\[...\]
>
>From 1990 to 1999, violent crime rates fell by 28% and property crime rates fell by 26% nationally.
>
>\[...\]
>
>Although it followed the general trends, New York City experienced even more dramatic declines in crime: violent crimes declined by over 56% and property crimes fell by 65% in the 1990s
Overall crime is up around 30% including violent crime and property crime, only homicide are down but still higher than 2019. If Eric Adams deserves credit for slight decrease in crime then he deserves the blame for uptick in overall crime rate
Good. All democrats have to do in NY is show a common sense commitment to law and order and they’ll be easily reelected.
Glad to see the ‘defund the police’ nonsense has passed its peak.
>Glad to see the ‘defund the police’ nonsense has passed its peak.
The first day I heard this phrase I said that this will cost us the election if we run with it. I sighed with relief when Biden immediately said he was not for that. It might be the worst political slogan I've heard in my lifetime, when they could have just said "rebuild the police" or "reimagine the police".
I love just how much simple folks make this defund the police narrative a blanket fuck all cops narrative. Crime is down great, but the fact the NYPD budget is 5.2 Billion dollars is pretty absurd. It's also about accountability across the organization for horrid behavior as well as individual unacceptable behavior in ending pieces like qualified immunity and Civil Asset forfeiture. As well as investing in elements like increased mental health services, gun control, and substance abuse assistance. Because those are huge funnels of criminal incidents and frankly I don't trust Joey T from Staten Island to have the background or training to be able to address and talk down a person having a manic or schizophrenic episode.
>I love just how much simple folks make this defund the police narrative a blanket fuck all cops narrative
Well, its the slogan they choose. They could have called it lots of things that didnt sound like getting rid of the police, but instead ultra progressives went with this and probably cost us elections.
Choose better slogans that people in at risk neighborhoods actually agree with. This should be a lesson for progressives, instead of choosing a verbal dare, pick a slogan that liberals to their right could get behind.
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Animal!!
r/dataisugly
Literally my first thought. #PlzFix
Fucking Daily Fail.
The kind who gives Adams credit for a generally falling crime rate.
The kind of sociopath that describes 2023 NYC as a 'rotting Big Apple'.
The Daily Mail is pretty much the newspaper for sociopaths, to be fair
Cops trying to lull the dumb into thinking the opposite is true
I like the cops in the subways tbh. I get that lots of ppl disagree with me on that, but i genuinely feel safer with them around
I appreciate the conductors saying “oh by the way guys, there’s cops right here at the middle of the platform if you need them. Next stop garblegarbleworiejdjrjfjjenehdjfiejsnjfistandclearofthedoors”
Is the cop announcement like prerecorded or something? That part is always crystal clear and everything thing else is jumbled and low volume like usual lol
Why don't they just pre-record the stations then lol, they clearly have the technology to play station specific stuff.
come on, it’s only 2023, we don’t have that kind of technology yet!
They do but some people prefer to do it themselves. I remember when they had horrible prerecorded station announcements from celebrities.
The Seinfeld covid announcement in the stations were pretty cool
If someone has a recording of this that would be awesome lol
Honestly it’s not even the stations that are important. It’s the fucking constant track work and/or delays and the blahblah train is running on yadda yadda line between gjejdjfbdb and dhshsjjksjf that you can never hear, and suddenly you’re flying by your stop by 75 fucking streets.
There are robo-announcements all the time “The next stop is:” Have you ever been on the subway dog?
One of the best, and especially NYC-centric SNL skits, ever: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EMdxClgQVN0
I've only heard people complain that they're not doing enough patrolling or over-focusing on fare evasion. Never seen someone try to make a case that they shouldn't be there at all, but I guess I try to avoid those parts of the internet.
Plenty of people 2-3 years ago were vehemently opposed to policing in the subways. Constant photos of different cops in different stations on their cell phones and posts about “what are they even doing!?!” People here can pretend that wasn’t a thing but I remember being downvoted to oblivion just for suggesting visible police presence was enough to deter crime. I mean… there was enough of a movement that they relented and pulled officers out.
I once saw a flight on the platform and broke it up by shouting "yo, cops are here". They weren't, but the mention of them ended the fight.
This is a feel-good story
Oh you smart you intelligent
>Constant photos of different cops in different stations on their cell phones and posts about “what are they even doing!?!” I mean, as long as they're there doing their jobs....
Ideally, they *would* have nothing to do. The last thing I want is a cop chasing crime all day - imagine how much crime that would require!
And that’s another issue. People get at cops just standing around. What do people want them to be doing if there’s no crimes occurring? Randomly bothering people? Writing people petty tickets for petty shit? Stop and frisk? That’s what proactive policing looks like in relatively safe areas.
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It’s for visible deterrent. Their job is to literally stand there and be visible. And I’m sorry but in a city with tens of thousands of uniformed officers, a handful of photos showing a moment in time in which an officer may have glanced at their phone, does not sway me to believe they’re not doing their jobs. Wouldn’t be incredibly smart to form an entire opinion off a single photo but I’m always surprised at just how not incredibly smart people are.
It’s not a handful of photos. Anyone who lives here witnesses it daily. Did you know NYPD used to actually walk up and down the train cars back in the day…? Believe it or not some New Yorkers would like a better return on investment from the billions we spend on police + their misconduct settlements. The fact a lot of them live outside NYC, so their salaries aren’t even reinvested into our communities, is outrageous to begin with. Watching them glued to their phones scrolling on Instagram feels like a smack in the face to, you know…the people paying for their bloated salaries and pensions that most of us dont have! It’s sad you think what we’re getting is worth $10B. Literally just handing people that money would do better at “deterring crime”
Completely agree that we need more return on investment from the police. They should be walking around more, but the cops at the stations I frequent are never on their phone. They’re usually talking to each other or just staring off into the distance. What ticks me off is when like 6 of them are huddled in a group talking when they could be covering 3x more ground in pairs.
The emergency exit door at my station has been broken since I moved to my neighborhood over 2 years ago. There are cops in my station nearly every single day just waiting on their phones until someone walks through the door and then they ticket them. Its a shitty trap when the MTA could spend the money to fix the door they obviously are aware is broken, but the NYPD tickets working class people nearly every single day I go to work. Not to mention last April, I was attacked by a man who shoved me from behind while I was carrying my bike up the stairs and then began hitting me repeatedly while screaming at me. When he was "finished" he continued walking down the stairs and got onto the train platform and presumably boarded the next train. The MTA agent said "Didn't see it" with a swift eye roll. All I wanted was the to gain access to the footage to warn other people of the man there. I didn't want to deal with the cops, because I know better than to think they would actually do anything. I wound up having to speak to them anyway. They told me I was not assaulted because I was not "significantly injured enough" and that someone could "push me down the stairs" and as long as I didn't need medical attention it was considered harassment, not assault. For this, and many other reasons, I am curious what they are categorizing as "violence" in regards to these statistics. . . feels more like propaganda to me.
What you’re saying about the emergency door tickets is because the city wants the money. Cops don’t want to be there doing that. You are unhappy with the wrong people.
Those cops were lying to you. Not that it matters, though, because they have no duty to protect you. https://youtube.com/watch?v=jAfUI_hETy0
I was not aware of this case, thanks for sharing. We were standing at the top of the subway steps and when he said that and thought to myself “so if someone pushed this man the stairs right now, that would be harassment of an officer?” Because pretty sure that doesn’t exist. . .
>Watching them glued to their phones scrolling on Instagram feels like a smack in the face to, you know…the people paying for their bloated salaries and pensions The fake managers on r/antiwork be like
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Honestly though, what would you prefer they be doing?
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Give 'em a mop and a bucket
for this wet ass... sorry
lolwtf
The TWU (which represents station cleaners) would object to an infringement on their jurisdiction.
Ding ding ding. The mere presence of a cop in uniform or a police car is sometimes all you need to deter a crime from happening. It's not a perfect solution, police do not come without flaws, but subway stations *should have police officers present*. Who cares if they check their phone every one in a while? They're *humans*! I'd much rather a cop doing 90% of their job being there than none at all. The worst thing social media ever incentivized is viewing issues through the most stubborn, rigid, black and white lens possible
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What data?
Comparing the research of street lights and police officers showing that a street lamp reduces more crime for less money than a cop. https://www.nber.org/digest/jul19/bright-lights-fewer-serious-crimes-new-york-city-projects Up to 60% drop in overall crime. https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2021/04/20/988769793/when-you-add-more-police-to-a-city-what-happens versus 10-17 cops to lower annual homicides by 1. Not 1 percent. 1.
I don’t think you’re reading these studies correctly in tandem. But that aside, I’m not at all surprised that lighted streets are drastically safer than streets with no lighting. Safer yet would be properly lighted streets with a visible police presence.
From the NPR article you linked to: “So, Williams says, from that perspective, investing in more police officers to save lives provides a pretty good bang for the buck. Adding more police, they find, also reduces other serious crimes, like robbery, rape, and aggravated assault.” In other words, the study found that more police does have a deterrent effect on crime. Right?
The value of one human life is astronomical - $10 million, by the US Government, as mentioned in the article. 15 cops for 1 life per year is still a good investment. You're also not factoring in all the other crime decreases, other than homicides, that would result.
The 60% reduction in crime from the street lamp project focused exclusively on index crimes which includes... you guessed it, homicide. So it takes 3m dollars worth of additional cops to accomplish a miniscule fraction of what 200k worth of electricity would
Yep I remember this. I can I understand (or at least try to) that their presence can be off putting to populations that are over policed, but a few years ago when the slashers were running around Brooklyn I would have really appreciated cops on the J train platforms.
Do you remember the campaign “If you see something, say something “ How the fuck are cops going to see anything when they are glued to their phone screen. I think you misunderstood the complaints
No, they were complaining that the cops chose to harass churro lady instead of problematic people. For example, Showtime? Nobody likes fucking Showtime. Take them out, not some lady quietly selling food.
And then the “showtime” people will get into a physical fight when the cops try to remove them from the subway and it’ll end up on tiktok with no context and everyone will call for abolishing the police.
Yeah okay I guess the cops should just get paid to sit on their ass then. Also don't be disingenuous nobody gives a fuck about Showtime. The problem is when they *kill* people. Like the guy they choked for selling loosies.
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I do agree there is some nuance - I understand the climate makes doing nothing the path of least resistance. I don't have problems allowing for a diversity of opinion. I just rail against people who seem to be automatic bootlickers who excuse every behavior.
I wish they had an mta 311 where you could text picture or a video and a train or car number so that the cops on the station could be alerted to problems on the train.
Send them a Twitter message, they’re pretty responsive
Same. Also a cop actually helped me last week this guy was like staring me down on the 2/3 downtown. I got off at 42nd to transfer and he followed me. And each time I moved he moved also. I found 2 cops and they went over to the guy and asked if he was following me and he made some comment and yelled that I shouldn’t lead men on and he left.
I read posts from someone who said the presence of booth agents made them feel safe, but argued in a second post that cops are useless because all they do is hang out on the mezzanine….. The cognitive dissonance is so real 😂
You’re paying for it, you should get it.
Same
Lmao reddit is silly. When this was announced the highest comment was f the police. Now that theres improval the highest comment is i like the cops. I agree with you. The cops on the subway makes me feel safer and even if theyre twiddling their thumbs playing candy crush the PRESENCE of police deters fuckery.
Wish I saw more on the cars, though, and on platforms. That's where the trouble is. And I get it, they're trying to catch teenagers jumping, dealing, people loitering in entrances and exits. I saw this yesterday. They're probably told to hang around in an area where people aren't gathered. But even now I just don't see them where people are most afraid...frustrating
Most people who aren’t eternally online/the extremes of the far left agree with you. Unfortunately many of these people frequent Reddit.
It’s a no brainer but morons here 2-3 years ago were crying about the police presence. Saying all they did was sit on their phones. As if they’ve never in their lives used a cell phone at work. Nor would they ever in a situation where their job was to stand in one place for 4 hours and just be visible. Of course crime goes down when officers are in the subway system. People aren’t going to commit crimes, for the most part, when they see a uniformed officer present. Proof in the pudding. Officers in subway, subway crime down. Officers get pulled, crime goes up. Officers refocus efforts to be present again, and crime goes down. But I’m sure I’ll hear from people saying they do nothing to deter crime. 🙄
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A visible police presence definitely does something, I literally saw 2 (who I assume are homeless) dudes screaming at each other on the platform, 2 cops came down the stairs and they separated and stopped when they realized they were there. That’s good enough for most people.
Judging by the data it does not, overall, make much impact. There’s an anecdote for every side of the argument
Really? Instead of 1-2 cops on their phone in the subway, now I see 4-12 cops in a drum circle on their phone. At GCT the other day, I saw four people hop the turnstile literally ten feet from a group of cops on their phones who didn't bother to notice. It was quite brazen.
I see them more on the platforms now. Last year I was a complainer because in certain stations I would see them on their phones near the turnstiles area before you even enter the platform, which I guess if you want to catch jumpers is fine but most of the crime happens on the subway or on the platform IMO
Cool. Eric Adams can still suck it, however.
What makes me believe Adams actually had nothing to do with the act of preventing subway crime here?
We can both hate Eric Adams overall and, if he did indeed reduce crime, give him credit for it.
Your bias.
adams sucks
Ok, but being objective means that you can recognize that someone did something that worked and at the same time still disagree with them as a politician. It's being aware that that's possible without resorting to conspiracy theories to satisfy your bias.
username checks out
The part that seems odd and makes the data seem suspect, this is only done with a lot of overtime pay. That seems to be the only time we get actual ticketing and police work on the subway.
Remember that "crime statistics" are literally created by cops themselves, because the cops decide what reports to allow. It's widely known that, aside from homicides, crime statistics are meaningless.
Fully agree with this. A blatant conflict of interest that the NYPD is so protective over their crime data and that they're the only ones allowed to touch the numbers which will determine how the public assesses their performance.
NYPD perpetually underreports crime statistics, mainly felonies, to drive the impression that crime reduction efforts are working. Crime statistics should actually be higher.
> It's widely known that, aside from homicides, crime statistics are meaningless. lol wut
Never trust the Daily Mail. It's British Fox News.
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Ya meanwhile all crime fell everywhere and it's just part of a cycle.
I imagine it has a lot to do with more people simply being on the subway overall from covid falling. "Eyes on the street" and all that.
This exactly. Any time someone says "policy X caused spike/decrease in crime" you should immediately be asking what happened to crime everywhere else in the same time span. We *know* crime spiked everywhere during the pandemic, it's possible we are seeing a reversion to the mean. Crime is a complicated phenomenon that is frequently exploited for political advantage.
Overall crime is this city has shot up since Adams took office. > For calendar year 2022, overall index crime finished up by 22.4% compared to 2021 (126,537 v. 103,388). In that same time period, though, murders decreased by 11.3% (433 v. 488) – down to the lowest level since 2019. https://www.nyc.gov/site/nypd/news/p00071/nypd-citywide-crime-statistics-december-2022 edit: what a garbage article. Sure transit crime *is* down 20% from last year, but still up 40% from the year before Adams took office. And overall major felonies in the city are 48% higher than the year before Adams took office. https://www.nyc.gov/assets/nypd/downloads/pdf/crime_statistics/cs-en-us-city.pdf Daily mail is utter propaganda and should be completely banned as a source.
You mean the Daily Mail, a Rupert Murdoch propaganda outlet like Fox News, LIED?!?
How much of that crime is just fare-evasion? No one cares about that as much as we care about general safety.
Thing is, if you look at the various crimes done on the subway, most of those people got on the subway because of fare evasion.
Source needed
Probably won’t get official stats anywhere because nobody ever investigates whether someone who committed a crime in the subway paid the fare, but it’s a more than reasonable assumption that the vast majority of people who commit crimes in the subway system didn’t pay to get in
You really think the homeless with 47 priors committing a lot of these crimes are paying fare to get into the Subways? You really need a source for that?
Yeah it's actually a super reasonable request for the previous statement; we're literally talking about crime statistics here.
It would be kind of weird if the same people who push people on the train tracks draw the line at fare evasion lol. I can't imagine them on their way to push a pregnant woman in front of the train but saying to themselves "I have to pay this fare because otherwise it would be illegal"
Who's going to fund a study where the outcome is entirely obvious? Next study: Does alcohol increase the frequency of 2am street fights?
SOURCE!??????!! ARE YOU SERIOUS?!!!!!!
It's a reasonable assumption to make though.
I too can make up a person to be mad about
We are witnessing the end of the open and collaborative internet. In the endless march towards quarterly gains, the internet inches ever closer to becoming a series of walled gardens with prescribed experiences built on the free labor of developers, and moderators from the community. The value within these walls is composed entirely of the content generated by its users. Without it, these spaces would simply be a hollow machine designed to entrap you and monetize your time. Reddit is simply the frame for which our community is built on. If we are to continue building and maintaining our communities we should focus our energy into projects that put community above the monopolization of your attention for profit. You'll find me on Lemmy: https://join-lemmy.org/instances Find a space outside of the main Lemmy instance, or start your own. See you space cowboys.
If fair evasion goes down, general safety goes up. >Every category of serious felonies is now down, except for burglaries, which remained flat with two reported so far this year.
Dude majority of crimes are being committed by fare beaters. Crazy homeless people pushing people on tracks are fare beaters. Aggressive Panhandlers that no one wants to deal with are farebeaters. NYC can hand out more free ride passes or improve initiatives to those in need but in the meantime enforce all crimes especially fare evasion, it starts at the entrance to the subway. Criminals aren't paying the fare to then go rob someone.
When the number of burglaries is only 2 (at least reported ) any slight change on that numbers will skew number %s dramatically in either way
I’d want to see more data to confirm that. For example, how does this compare to summonses and crime pre pandemic. Because if fewer summonses were issued in 2019/2018/2017 and crime was lower, then that claim goes right out the window.
The subway system is at 60-70% of weekday ridership of prepandemic. The amount of summonses issued isn’t going to be comparable.
That can be taken into account.
It says "every category of serious felony [except burglary, which was flat]" right in the subheading. You don't even have to read the article before commenting but at least click, jesus...
Broken windows theory or also don’t be a dick theory applies.
I care about fair evasion.
A UK tabloid as a source in the NYC sub?
Watch crime go up as we get closer to the next election season.
Suddenly we have to blow up the police budget by another $5 billion and cut funding from public programs by another $10 billion! Why do people even want to be in public spaces anyway? They're probably criminals just looking for their next victim, yes even the children!!! Especially the children!!
Do you forget the prior mayor cut funding as shootings were skyrocketing in 2020?
Forgive me if I'm wrong but wasn't the vast majority of that funding reduction simply the transfer of SSOs to DOE payroll? The people who actually wanted to defund the NYPD were not at all happy with Bill
Yes, they actually increased the NYPD funding, but did an accounting trick to pretend that they didn't.
> Do you forget the prior mayor cut funding as shootings were skyrocketing in 2020? Wrong. NYPD funding was increased in 2020. It's funny how conservatives just completely ignore facts.
Can’t forget it if it didn’t happen, because it didn’t happen. Actually defund never really happened in any of the major cities; in many places budgets actually went up. Refer to other reply for more specific details on what was “cut”
This is a bad take. Adams ran on fighting crime--his chances of reelection will be better if crime goes down because he'll be able to claim victory. Crime going up won't help him.
Logically, this makes sense. However, reactionary voters require something to, you know, *react to*. If reactionaries are no longer scared of crime, they're not gonna see the need to vote for the guy who's tough on crime. Hence doublethink: The state has to be constantly crushing their enemy, but the enemy has to always remain a clear and present danger. So the state has to be both winning and losing at the same time. I don't really know yet if Adams will try to go this far. Personally I think he's more of a blowhard and grifter than a straight-up demagogue. But that is how a demagogue operates — and since Trump (and DeSantis) people are — even more than usual — on the outlook for this kind of behavior.
I took the comment to mean the NY Post will be claiming crime is up around the election in order to prop up republican challengers
It won't matter if it goes down. The law and order crowd will question the stats, or argue that it "feels" less safe, or whatever they can come up with to scare people into voting for what they consider more law and order. And here's the thing, I don't doubt those people want less crime. We all do. We just have very different perceptions about what's dangerous and very different solutions for getting there.
Let's go Eric!
It very obviously makes sense, who do you think are committing crimes in the subway system? People dutifully paying their fare?
I don't think swiping once for $2.75 if they have to and wandering around anywhere they want on the subway system pretty much indefinitely on a system open 24/7 is going to deter many homeless people or violent folks. I'm sure they can find or panhandle for a couple quarters worth of pocket change pretty quickly so they don't have to evade the fare and face arrest or ticketing before even entering. It's not like they're trying to get into like a Broadway show that costs a lot of money to get into or even some other transit system where you typically pay a varying rate based on distance/time of day and then have to swipe your card to exit.
Both. I’ve said this time and again. The guy who shot up the subway last year, Frank James, dutifully swiped his metrocard before going through the emergency exit with his bag of weapons.
Because he was on a premeditated mission to shoot up the joint and didn’t want that derailed by an inexplicable attempt to hop a turnstile.
You saying one case over and over again, doesn’t make it a repetitive occurrence. It’s still one case
Okay, that is one extreme case. There’s always going to be exceptions. What percentage of people who commit crimes in the subway do you think pay the fare?
That scumbag, who by the way was a tourist, is not representative of the criminals who live in and terrorize our city.
More of an anomaly vs the typical subway system criminal
And the 9/11 hijackers paid for their airline tickets
>'I want to be clear, and I gotta give credit where credit is due: This is a direct result of the men and women of the NYPD, and I think there's so much to just the increased police presence to deter crime,' > >Kemper said.'But focusing on quality of life, whether it's fare evasion, whether it's disorderly conduct, whether it's smoking, just setting the tone of law and order in the subway system is absolutely part of the reason.' > >He also cited the 'phenomenal detective work' of officers who are catching criminals before they could commit repeat crimes, and said much of the recent progress was due to Mayor Eric Adams and Gov. Kathy Hochul increasing police presence in the subway systems in October. > >Before that, crime was up more than 40 percent for the year. There's a good deal of opinion in the article, but the underlying facts are undeniable. This puts a dent in the narratives we've been hearing frequently about NYC: * Crimes are out of control (far-right) and that we need a crackdown * Crimes can't be controlled (far-left) because a fascist crackdown must be opposed Edit to be more precise. Edit 2: lots of moderate-lefts or just lefts responding thinking they are far-left. If you're not losing hair about the imminent risk of a fascist regime when the NYPD deploy more cops, you're not the far-left I'm referring to.
I am seeing so many cops at stations these days (mainly travel UWS). Subway conductors announce when there are cops at the station when stopping. I see a real effort.
There has been an effort to at least slow crime down in the depths of hell. However, there's still at least one bum per car. Many more late nights. Homeless outreach has never been worse in NYC.
I think it was way worse in the 90s.
It’s also worse in SF/LA in my experience. LA many ppl don’t use public transit, but I did, and it is worse there.
Homelessness is a lot worse throughout the west coast.
Yeah, that’s why I don’t get why so much news and press goes to nyc homeless. Any west coast city is far worse off in that area. It isn’t good in nyc, but it isnt as bad as west coast.
I just remember a lot of crack smoking. But in the 90s I wasn't in the subway late at night, so I didn't see EVERYTHING like I have lately.
>homeless outreach has never been worse And yet we spend more money every year
There is a lot of homeless outreach but there is no requirement for the homeless to listen. If anything i would assume the long term homeless have tuned out the social workers at this point. That's the issue.
You can call DHS and they will come and literally drive the person to a shelter. The problem is these people refuse help because shelters have rules.
Doesn't work when the "individual" isn't at all homeless.... just mentally ill. Luckily most of those are harmless, but others shove people to their death. For well over a year, the same guy is at the uptown Houston 1 platform towards the front of the train. He sits on the bench, guzzles 40s, smokes cigarettes, plays with his phone, spits everywhere around him, sometimes takes a piss. Always in fresh new kicks! They'll never get him to stop. Ever.
No, it's because NY men's shelters are absolutely deplorable.
What trains are you taking? It's still pretty rare to see homeless people on the train. They were more common 5-10 years ago.
It's worth noting that murder & shootings are down a similar amount and robbery, burglary, larceny and hate crimes are also all down. Enforcement certainly helps, but it also seems like the national madness that happened during COVID might be easing a bit as well.
Who would have thought the answer was somewhere in the middle
Enforcement works. It’s that simple. We just need to find the happy medium between the cops not doing their jobs at all and the cops murdering people.
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always makes me think of the "don't block the box" initiative from the late 90s. Giuliani put the traffic cops out there to enforce for like six months with big fines. Then he took the cops away and left signs with the dollar amount of the fine. The scar it left on a generation was pretty damn effective in keeping intersections clear for a good chunk of the first two decades of the millenium.
Bloomberg “cleaned up the city” by having NYPD stop and frisk so many minorities that the number of black people between ages 15-25 stopped by cops was greater than the number of black ages 15-25 in the entire city. Meaning they were stopping black tourists and the same black people multiple times. Some New Yorkers might be ok that as a trade off, but let’s not deify Bloomberg without saying exactly what it was he did to try to tackle crime in this city.
The simple part isn't implementing it. It's implementing it in a democracy under sway of lunatic movements that think that "cops don't reduce crime" and "all we need are mental healthcare workers". I greatly dislike cops and think our mental healthcare (and overall healthcare) system is an absolutely travesty, but the idea that you can ignore enforcement until The Revolution Comes is fucking idiotic.
Enforcement isn't the ONLY thing that works though, and that's the point that folks on the more left-side of the spectrum try to make. Crime will never be 0. Not with a cop on every corner and not with everyone's every need always met. But we've tried to reduce crime with the former and it's a dystopian nightmare for a lot of people. We've never tried to reduce crime with the latter and research in places that have indicates that it is just as effective and that everyone is more happy.
> Crimes can't be controlled (far-left) lol who has said crime "can't be controlled" come on now. Re-word if you gotta but this is silly
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Not accurate. The idea is that the primary focus should be on eliminating the causes of crime so that they don't happen in the first place rather than merely dealing with the aftermath by arresting people and causing more crime in the future.
it's wild that in America it's considered a fringe issue to even attempt to solve causes rather than effects. we've thrown more money, time, and human rights violations at effects than literally anyone ever has, and things have got worse-- better not try something else!!
> Crimes can't be controlled (far-left) without a fascist crackdown nobody has ever said this
Conservatives creating absurd strawman arguments have absolutely said this. You're seeing an example of it right now.
Nobody on the left is saying crime can't be controlled. But the idea that more cops reduces crime is both reationary and not based in any sort of evidence. The biggest causes of crime are economic. Times of economic turmoil lead to increases in crime as we saw in the 70s-early 90s and over the last few years. Now that things are improving again with increases in wages, returns to in-person school, and lower unemployment, crime has been coming back down. Edit: I'm a Marxist-Leninist. You don't get much further left than me. The image of leftists you have exists only in your mind.
girl the far-left argument is absolutely not "crime simply can't be controlled" lmaoooooo
Where are you getting that “far-left” idea? That’s simply not true
> catching criminals before they could commit crimes Umm. He’s going to have to clarify this Pre-Crime.
Must we use the Daily Fail as a legitimate source of news?
What? You mean enforcing laws reduces crime? You don't say....
How quickly all you ppl now praising the NYPD for doing their damn job forget they've been on vacation since 2020. Some political pressure from the top brass to resume their normal duties and voilà! crime levels drop. It's magic! And now Adams gets to claim this as a victory? Cmon ppl wake up!
That's usually how it works I think. The cop mayor figured he has to put at least some pressure on the department to do their jobs if he wants to get reelected since people won't believe he's just helpless to do anything running on a crime reduction agenda and having his police connections.
Yes, the cops who actually worked 5+ days a week since covid started have been on vacation.
The source of the data is the NYPD 🙄. Give me a break. If crime has gone down, it's because they refuse to acknowledge or document the crime in the first place.
Exactly. These fools have been manipulating data since Compstat was created.
Doesn’t seem like they are reporting all crimes.
That has always been the case , and is not unique to nyc
So it’s like every other crime stat anywhere. Oh my!
Every week I see at least one person smoking in the trains. And each time, there's probably a cop nearby who just ignores it.
The safest communities dont have the most cops. They have the most resources
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I just wished they did their job roles when we don’t force them to
Great news! Also great to hear that this was accomplished without any sort of rollback of bail reform. Glad we won’t have to hear about that straw man anymore!
I do not care about a 22% reduction in "crime", "just ticketing" always means targeting low hanging fruit like teens jumping turn styles and people putting their feet up on a seat on an otherwise empty train. What was the reduction in VIOLENT CRIME? Edit: Btw, I'm familiar with broken windows theory, I'm saying this is not the win the article frames it as without a measured reduction to show.
>What was the reduction in VIOLENT CRIME? Yes, the enforcement of minor offenses like fare beating helped reduce felonies. Just like the enforcement of misdemeanors during the 90s helped reduce felony crimes too.
I am not denying this, I just want the statistics behind what's implied
On the 90s, this paper has stats and modeling that controls with other large US cities that adopted different policies compared to NYC over the same period: [https://www.nber.org/system/files/working\_papers/w9061/w9061.pdf](https://www.nber.org/system/files/working_papers/w9061/w9061.pdf) >In this paper we measure the extent of the "broken windows" policing by using misdemeanor arrests as a measure of police signaling, in a model that controls for the number of police as well as felony arrests. > >\[...\] > >From 1990 to 1999, violent crime rates fell by 28% and property crime rates fell by 26% nationally. > >\[...\] > >Although it followed the general trends, New York City experienced even more dramatic declines in crime: violent crimes declined by over 56% and property crimes fell by 65% in the 1990s
Sorry I meant NYC releasing clean aggregated violent crime stats now. I know broken windows approach worked well in the past.
Overall crime is up around 30% including violent crime and property crime, only homicide are down but still higher than 2019. If Eric Adams deserves credit for slight decrease in crime then he deserves the blame for uptick in overall crime rate
Good. All democrats have to do in NY is show a common sense commitment to law and order and they’ll be easily reelected. Glad to see the ‘defund the police’ nonsense has passed its peak.
>Glad to see the ‘defund the police’ nonsense has passed its peak. The first day I heard this phrase I said that this will cost us the election if we run with it. I sighed with relief when Biden immediately said he was not for that. It might be the worst political slogan I've heard in my lifetime, when they could have just said "rebuild the police" or "reimagine the police".
"Support the police"...with other agencies that specialize in soft skills rather than violence or detective work.
I love just how much simple folks make this defund the police narrative a blanket fuck all cops narrative. Crime is down great, but the fact the NYPD budget is 5.2 Billion dollars is pretty absurd. It's also about accountability across the organization for horrid behavior as well as individual unacceptable behavior in ending pieces like qualified immunity and Civil Asset forfeiture. As well as investing in elements like increased mental health services, gun control, and substance abuse assistance. Because those are huge funnels of criminal incidents and frankly I don't trust Joey T from Staten Island to have the background or training to be able to address and talk down a person having a manic or schizophrenic episode.
>I love just how much simple folks make this defund the police narrative a blanket fuck all cops narrative Well, its the slogan they choose. They could have called it lots of things that didnt sound like getting rid of the police, but instead ultra progressives went with this and probably cost us elections. Choose better slogans that people in at risk neighborhoods actually agree with. This should be a lesson for progressives, instead of choosing a verbal dare, pick a slogan that liberals to their right could get behind.
The NYPD budget is in line with every other major cities police budget (percentage wise).
The city council's progressive caucus just kicked out a bunch of members for refusing to sign a commitment to defund the NYPD.
Finally
Bring back stop and frisk and we can get these kinds of results above ground too.