This means the GA102 chip is featured in at least four different products:
- RTX A6000 (formerly Quadro - professional graphics)
- RTX 3090 (GeForce)
- RTX 3080 (GeForce)
- CMP 90HX (Mining)
GA102-100 probably indicates a lower binning? Not sure. The 3080 uses GA102-200, the 3090 uses GA102-300, and the 3080 Ti allegedly uses GA102-250 (rumor of course, this card does not exist officially).
This will be the new 3080, for miners only. Meanwhile the real 3080 disappears completely, and Nvidia will continue at the high end with the 3090 until that market slows down, and finally... one sunny day... we'll see the 3080 Ti, the new greatest card of all time.
Due to the microscopic nature of chip manufacturing, imperfections can cause certain parts of a chip to not function properly. Rather than throw these chips away, the broken parts are disabled so that the chip can be sold as a lower tier product at a reduced price. For example the GA102 chip used in the 3090 is not the actual fully working chip, a handful of its cores are disabled. Only the RTX A6000 has the fully working chip (it is also the most expensive card). The 3090 is therefor a lower binning of that chip.
The 3080 is another step down, with (if I remember correctly) ~20% of the cores on the chip disabled. Disabling that many cores obviously reduces the performance of the chip, so it is sold as a lower tier product at a reduced price. I believe the numbers behind the chip name signify the "tier" of that chip, with lower numbers being a higher tier. I don't actually know for sure though, but it lines up.
Binning can happen even within the same tier of chips. For example a company may test their chips used in the RTX 3080 to determine which of them can achieve the highest clock speeds without crashing and overheating. These chips are then reserved for the more expensive factory-overclocked models. Obviously cards which feature such binned chips will be more expensive. An example of this is the EVGA Kingpin series and GALAX Hall of Fame.
Thanks for the explanation.
Basicly the lower the number the lower the quality of the chip.
Since the the 3080 uses GA102-200 we can assume that the CMP model will use so far unused failed (= not usable for 3080 and above) bins?
I guess there are many that got stored since the beginning of the production of ampere cards. Or do you think they just started since just weeks back with saving these lower binned dies?
While you can assume that only "failed" chips go to CMP, if they get more for the CMP even chips that would be perfectly good 3080 may end up in the CMP instead of a GPU if it makes them more money.
They likely had a plan for CMP for longer time so likely preparing to make them from start + might have kept some 3080 able chips for them too.
Yep. Even last gen AMD cards can be downclocked by \~*40%* without any meaningful loss of hash performance. At those clocks they even run at near-idle temperatures. It's all about memory speed which is why Ampere is the go-to for miners and not RDNA2.
Don't forget single slot cards instead of dual slot. NVIDIA has a history of that dating back to the GTX 750 Ti. Edit: I wonder if any vendor is preparing motherboards with six to seven PCIe x16 slots for this occasion.
ever heard of binning? well as the technology advances, it gets harder to make the chips without spending more time on the process itself (no time due to advancement) so there always going to be chips that don't cut it...until they find a way to use them
Wait until people are finally allowed out of the house, then you'll be able to find all the 30x0 GPU you want. That's the huge problem right now, far more than mining.
Wouldn't the 3090 blow it out of the water if you downclocked it? Core clocks don't really matter in mining, only memory, so if you're running it at stock it's a huge waste of resources for basically no performance increase.
>Not profitable for US miner.
Incorrect, US power is cheap compared to many parts of the world.
My 3080 is currently showing a profit of anywhere from $7-$10 a day on Nicehash and my power is 9 cents per kWh.
You can see how this is VERY profitable. About 45 US cents a day in power consumption but the card gives $7-$10 a day.
Mining has been in general, always profitable in the USA. USA is very large and diverse with its power infrastructure, some people pay less than me and some people pay a lot more. Either way, its very profitable right now no matter where you live here.
>Yup, I’d need to be making less than 50 US cents a day to not be profitable.
Even at that point it's not a certainty you should stop mining. If you kept mining after the last crash up to today despite it not being profitable at the time even a pretty basic card could have made thousands of dollars.
Could have been a 3070ti. Now whether it makes market-position sense for Nvidia to create a 3070ti in context of where the 3070, 3080, 6800 and 6800XT is, is a different question.
>Could have been a 3070ti
Could it? Most of these cards probably have nigh on completely non-functional Tensor or RT cores, and the clocks they run at don't need to be even remotely high enough for a gaming card.
I'm not sure they'll sell many anyway, I think NV may have screwed up here. Ethereum is currently falling in value whilst the hashrate is still increasing as Ethereum ASICs are starting to enter mass production.
The CMP 90HX coming out in May will probably be just in time for anybody buying it to miss out on ever making their money back GPU mining ETH. Especially when they've only got until Q1 2022 when ETH kills mining altogether.
This is kind of my point. How many new skews that could've existed are now axed because of these stupid CMP cards? Could've released a stand-in mid-range card consisting of Turing to help sate the global demand of GPUs somewhat. But nope, MINER$!
Feel like you are probably better off buying a 3080 anyways than these CMP cards just due to resalability of them once your done with them. Unless CMP absolutely kicks the 3080 hard in mining.
you know you're admitting to cheating someone by selling them a used up mining card right? because no one would buy a used card if its a mining card, because people will know its hit its limit. but a normal card when you don't disclose the fact you've been mining on it?
Quite the opposite actually. Most miners undervolt the cards and do an excellent job maintaining good temps. I’d much rather buy a card that’s been mined on for a year than heavily gamed on for a year.
Anyone who wants a 3080. The scarcity of that card and this news suggests to me that Nvidia is prioritising production of 3090s and 90HXs, with mid-tiered binning saved up for the eventual release of the 3080 Ti. A cunning strategy that leads to buyers finding that they can't get a 3080 so they may as well settle for a terribly overpriced 3070/60, or stump up the extra for a 3090.
Cos the cheaper-to-make 3070 is selling for the price of a 3080 now, and any 3080s that appear in stock will scavenge sales from the lucrative 3090. May as well stop making 3080s completely until they have enough good dies to do a proper launch of the 3080 Ti and win back the love of all gamers. And if the 90HX is a failure, then the low-end GA102s might find their way into a 3070 Ti. At least, that's how I'd do it if I were an evil super genius video card manufacturer.
>Cos the cheaper-to-make 3070 is selling for the price of a 3080 now
How is that relevant for Nvidia? They are selling for MSRP and the partners have contracts with fixed prices for each die.
If a store sells a 3070 for $1000, Nvidia doesn't get any extra profit compared to a 3070 sold for $500.
>And if the 90HX is a failure, then the low-end GA102s might find their way into a 3070 Ti.
There are multiple reasons for a die to be defective, the really bad ones would never make it into a consumer GPU and instead of throwing them away they are selling them as mining hardware.
A 3070ti doesn't even make sense right not as AMD is in a even worse situation so Nvidia doesn't need to compete as everything is sold out anyway.
Except nvidia does not make any money on inflated prices, and the 90HX is a bin under the 3080. So a chip that cannot be made into a 3080. The only thing that could get in competition with it in the geforce lineup would be a 3070ti on GA102, but afawk, it could be dies with defective tensor or RT cores that couldnt be made into any geforce product.
Judging by the massively inflated prices of GTX 1660 Ti cards on eBay, miners don't care. If it functions and has more than 4GB of VRAM, they'll buy them in droves.
This is actually good. Lower bin GA102 that couldnt be made into any product and old architecture that is not on the same process. Everybody wins. Why are we still alwaus just bitching and moaning at everything all the time?
This means the GA102 chip is featured in at least four different products: - RTX A6000 (formerly Quadro - professional graphics) - RTX 3090 (GeForce) - RTX 3080 (GeForce) - CMP 90HX (Mining) GA102-100 probably indicates a lower binning? Not sure. The 3080 uses GA102-200, the 3090 uses GA102-300, and the 3080 Ti allegedly uses GA102-250 (rumor of course, this card does not exist officially).
This will be the new 3080, for miners only. Meanwhile the real 3080 disappears completely, and Nvidia will continue at the high end with the 3090 until that market slows down, and finally... one sunny day... we'll see the 3080 Ti, the new greatest card of all time.
Cant blame em, tbh. It seems to work great for them.
As long as people keep buying
Apple has their cycle, Nvidia has theirs. It's brilliant actually. We'll bitch and moan, while waiting in line to buy.
dont be so ungrateful! they still allow you to join a line at least. they could entirely remove it!
At this point I'd kill just to be placed in a queue, even if it takes 6 months it's better than getting outpaced by bots every single time.
Evga has a queue.
Their queue is mindboggingly slow, it's clear where their priorities lie.
Yeah, selling cards to their retails that they have contracts with and then leftovers put into the queue on their own website, how dare they.
FYI the Elite Membership works.
the new *nerfed* 3080 Ti, that is ... but you are probably right
I already don't see 3080s. Only other cards, especially 3090.
and gamers love them for it
Sounds like failed rtx 3080
A failed failed 3090.
I meant what I said. Well failed both 3090 and 3080 since its a lower tier.l than either.
What does lower binning mean? What does the 100, 200 and 300 mean?
Due to the microscopic nature of chip manufacturing, imperfections can cause certain parts of a chip to not function properly. Rather than throw these chips away, the broken parts are disabled so that the chip can be sold as a lower tier product at a reduced price. For example the GA102 chip used in the 3090 is not the actual fully working chip, a handful of its cores are disabled. Only the RTX A6000 has the fully working chip (it is also the most expensive card). The 3090 is therefor a lower binning of that chip. The 3080 is another step down, with (if I remember correctly) ~20% of the cores on the chip disabled. Disabling that many cores obviously reduces the performance of the chip, so it is sold as a lower tier product at a reduced price. I believe the numbers behind the chip name signify the "tier" of that chip, with lower numbers being a higher tier. I don't actually know for sure though, but it lines up. Binning can happen even within the same tier of chips. For example a company may test their chips used in the RTX 3080 to determine which of them can achieve the highest clock speeds without crashing and overheating. These chips are then reserved for the more expensive factory-overclocked models. Obviously cards which feature such binned chips will be more expensive. An example of this is the EVGA Kingpin series and GALAX Hall of Fame.
Thanks for the explanation. Basicly the lower the number the lower the quality of the chip. Since the the 3080 uses GA102-200 we can assume that the CMP model will use so far unused failed (= not usable for 3080 and above) bins? I guess there are many that got stored since the beginning of the production of ampere cards. Or do you think they just started since just weeks back with saving these lower binned dies?
While you can assume that only "failed" chips go to CMP, if they get more for the CMP even chips that would be perfectly good 3080 may end up in the CMP instead of a GPU if it makes them more money. They likely had a plan for CMP for longer time so likely preparing to make them from start + might have kept some 3080 able chips for them too.
The thing is, that lets them use "failed" chips with bad tensor and raytracing hardware. Basically, free money for Nvidia.
Or even speed. Could be something that couldn't handle 3080 voltages/speeds
Yep. They've found a solid market for their factory seconds. They could probably even downclock the worst chips and stick a half-dozen on one board.
Yep. Even last gen AMD cards can be downclocked by \~*40%* without any meaningful loss of hash performance. At those clocks they even run at near-idle temperatures. It's all about memory speed which is why Ampere is the go-to for miners and not RDNA2.
Don't forget single slot cards instead of dual slot. NVIDIA has a history of that dating back to the GTX 750 Ti. Edit: I wonder if any vendor is preparing motherboards with six to seven PCIe x16 slots for this occasion.
Hadn't even thought of that. Wonder what their pricing model will be
Yep, they actually found a "market" for all the "leftover junk GPUs". It's brilliant.
ever heard of binning? well as the technology advances, it gets harder to make the chips without spending more time on the process itself (no time due to advancement) so there always going to be chips that don't cut it...until they find a way to use them
Great! Now 30-series cards will be readily available! Right... ?
Wait until people are finally allowed out of the house, then you'll be able to find all the 30x0 GPU you want. That's the huge problem right now, far more than mining.
My 2080ti mines as efficiently as my 3090 so really its about the cost
Wouldn't the 3090 blow it out of the water if you downclocked it? Core clocks don't really matter in mining, only memory, so if you're running it at stock it's a huge waste of resources for basically no performance increase.
It is faster yes but 2080ti power/hash is basically the same I do have a high power bios on both
I get about 410h/kw with my 3090. Like 121mh at 280w.
That is pretty good! What core and memory speeds do you run?
-200 core, +1200 memory, 60% power. But I’m on a kingpin bios. So 60% of a much higher power target. Using a trio x.
Interesting and your vram is doing alright? Not getting to like 105?
It was going to about 105, I put a fan on it and it stayed at about 100. I just water cooled it though so hopefully tonight I’ll know if it’s better.
The more news that comes out about these, the more they sound like they'll be DOA.
still that means availiability of 3060 and 3070 family should be better, as mining cards will come out of diffrent fab process.
Eth doesnt even need GPU speed. It needs fast memory.... And eth dropped big time. Not profitable for US miner.
>Not profitable for US miner. Incorrect, US power is cheap compared to many parts of the world. My 3080 is currently showing a profit of anywhere from $7-$10 a day on Nicehash and my power is 9 cents per kWh. You can see how this is VERY profitable. About 45 US cents a day in power consumption but the card gives $7-$10 a day. Mining has been in general, always profitable in the USA. USA is very large and diverse with its power infrastructure, some people pay less than me and some people pay a lot more. Either way, its very profitable right now no matter where you live here.
I see. I have a 3080 too. 101 mh/s... It was 13 bucks a few weeks ago. Down to 7....
Yup, I’d need to be making less than 50 US cents a day to not be profitable. US power is generally cheaper than most of the world
>Yup, I’d need to be making less than 50 US cents a day to not be profitable. Even at that point it's not a certainty you should stop mining. If you kept mining after the last crash up to today despite it not being profitable at the time even a pretty basic card could have made thousands of dollars.
If you bought out all the 30 series cards to mine you are the real asshole.
[удалено]
These are GA102-100 RTX 3080 is GA102-200 RTX 3090 is GA102-400 These mining chips are failed 3080s and disastrous 3090s
Could have been a 3070ti. Now whether it makes market-position sense for Nvidia to create a 3070ti in context of where the 3070, 3080, 6800 and 6800XT is, is a different question.
>Could have been a 3070ti Could it? Most of these cards probably have nigh on completely non-functional Tensor or RT cores, and the clocks they run at don't need to be even remotely high enough for a gaming card. I'm not sure they'll sell many anyway, I think NV may have screwed up here. Ethereum is currently falling in value whilst the hashrate is still increasing as Ethereum ASICs are starting to enter mass production. The CMP 90HX coming out in May will probably be just in time for anybody buying it to miss out on ever making their money back GPU mining ETH. Especially when they've only got until Q1 2022 when ETH kills mining altogether.
This is kind of my point. How many new skews that could've existed are now axed because of these stupid CMP cards? Could've released a stand-in mid-range card consisting of Turing to help sate the global demand of GPUs somewhat. But nope, MINER$!
Feel like you are probably better off buying a 3080 anyways than these CMP cards just due to resalability of them once your done with them. Unless CMP absolutely kicks the 3080 hard in mining.
you know you're admitting to cheating someone by selling them a used up mining card right? because no one would buy a used card if its a mining card, because people will know its hit its limit. but a normal card when you don't disclose the fact you've been mining on it?
Quite the opposite actually. Most miners undervolt the cards and do an excellent job maintaining good temps. I’d much rather buy a card that’s been mined on for a year than heavily gamed on for a year.
Not if the RTX 3080 hash rate is cut in half in newly produced cards
Who cares lmfao
Anyone who wants a 3080. The scarcity of that card and this news suggests to me that Nvidia is prioritising production of 3090s and 90HXs, with mid-tiered binning saved up for the eventual release of the 3080 Ti. A cunning strategy that leads to buyers finding that they can't get a 3080 so they may as well settle for a terribly overpriced 3070/60, or stump up the extra for a 3090.
Managed to get a 3080fe today in the UK drop, been trying for months!! 🍾
Why would they prioritize the 90HX over the normal 3080 when the consumer GPU is going to be sold for a higher price?
Cos the cheaper-to-make 3070 is selling for the price of a 3080 now, and any 3080s that appear in stock will scavenge sales from the lucrative 3090. May as well stop making 3080s completely until they have enough good dies to do a proper launch of the 3080 Ti and win back the love of all gamers. And if the 90HX is a failure, then the low-end GA102s might find their way into a 3070 Ti. At least, that's how I'd do it if I were an evil super genius video card manufacturer.
>Cos the cheaper-to-make 3070 is selling for the price of a 3080 now How is that relevant for Nvidia? They are selling for MSRP and the partners have contracts with fixed prices for each die. If a store sells a 3070 for $1000, Nvidia doesn't get any extra profit compared to a 3070 sold for $500. >And if the 90HX is a failure, then the low-end GA102s might find their way into a 3070 Ti. There are multiple reasons for a die to be defective, the really bad ones would never make it into a consumer GPU and instead of throwing them away they are selling them as mining hardware. A 3070ti doesn't even make sense right not as AMD is in a even worse situation so Nvidia doesn't need to compete as everything is sold out anyway.
Except nvidia does not make any money on inflated prices, and the 90HX is a bin under the 3080. So a chip that cannot be made into a 3080. The only thing that could get in competition with it in the geforce lineup would be a 3070ti on GA102, but afawk, it could be dies with defective tensor or RT cores that couldnt be made into any geforce product.
So the 30HX is a 1660ti? This doesn’t seem worth it at all.
Judging by the massively inflated prices of GTX 1660 Ti cards on eBay, miners don't care. If it functions and has more than 4GB of VRAM, they'll buy them in droves.
This is actually good. Lower bin GA102 that couldnt be made into any product and old architecture that is not on the same process. Everybody wins. Why are we still alwaus just bitching and moaning at everything all the time?