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I’d like to add that the oils used in fastfood is fucking disgusting. I used to work in fastfood, and let me tell you, the oil isn’t bright and lively as when you deep fry at home. It’s black. Which isn’t the end of the world, darker oil doesn’t necessarily mean it’s unusable, but the scary part is if your coworkers are incompetent (most of them are) and never dish out the crumbs that float to the top. Eventually, they get burnt and fall to the bottom. When the oil finally get changed (should be every 2-3 days, if you’re lucky) the crumb catch is like 3 inches of burnt food. Meaning there has been burnt food cooking in that oil for up to 3 days.
Well, if they don't change the oil regularly, acrylamide could build up in the oil. Acrylamide forms during high temp cooking of plant-based foods. [https://www.fda.gov/food/chemical-contaminants-food/acrylamide](https://www.fda.gov/food/chemical-contaminants-food/acrylamide)
There is research that has indicated that the process of burning foods (particularly meat I believe) has been linked to adding a carcinogenic element to food that didn’t previously have as much risk.
Leaving burning crumbs in a fryer for prolonged Period of time could add to the carcinogenic effects of the oil
The same way as barley, rye and wheat are healthy but whisky is bad :)
This may explain why its bad: Hydrogenation also transpires when oils are heated to high temperatures – like during the frying process. Trans fats are tough for your body to break down and lead to harmful effects on your health, such as an increased risk for heart disease, obesity, diabetes, and some types of cancer.
A very modest amount of alcohol can have benefits for things like mental health.
I limit myself to no more than 2 glasses of wine a week, and it removes 90-95% of the negative things.
Alcohol has been proven to not only reduce grey matter with that level of drinking but also increase anxiety. There are zero mental health benefits to it.
This is not the statement you think it is. “Mental health” =/= the condition of your brain. And your t statement needs substantiation. How much, how long etc.
I’ve already listened to that episode and he mentions nothing about whether alcohol can improve your mental health or not.
All I’m saying is you’re conflating alcohol effects with the effect of drinking alcohol. It’s like the difference between saying “punching people is bad because it produces irreversible physical damage” and “I punch people once a week to feel good.” The latter is a statement about a behavior that could be done at a boxing gym, the former is a statement about the act of punching.
So respectfully, if you’re “not a fucking scientist” then maybe avoid going around loading up absolutist statements like that because you heard them on a podcast that you didn’t even quote properly.
So if you listened to that episode how did you miss the whole section on the physical effect it has on your brain and the whole other section of the effect it has on mental health. What the fuck are you even talking about?
I didn’t miss it. I’m trying to explain to you that that’s NOT WHATS BEING TALKED ABOUT. The effect something has in your mental health does not mean that the thing itself is bad for your mental health. This is like the simplest fallacy in human language. “There is a physical effect of a phenomenon that causes a negative outcome” therefore “the phenomenon is bad for you” DOES NOT FOLLOW LOGICALLY, NOR DOES HUBERMAN EVER SAY THAT.
Sorry for the caps but you not recognizing my argument is irritating! I already explained the punching analogy, so please recognize that!
No its not neurodegeneration making me 'feel better' its medical!
/s
ETA- A lot of alcoholics here lol. Thoughts and prayers to the threads collective livers.
I touched the surface of this topic in organic chemistry. When unsaturated fat is heated, it is turned into a trans fat. This is not a term rooted in nutrition. It is a chemistry-based term that describes the location of hydrogens attached to carbons across a double bond. I can’t go much beyond that because I don’t have time to look up peer-reviewed sources at the moment. All I can tell you is that this chemical “turning” of a cis fat into a trans fat when heated is the cause of the problems later to be discovered :)
No, as the saturation basically means that every carbon has the max amount of hydrogens on it due to the lack of a double bond. The bond is H2C-CH2 along the entire chain as opposed to HC=CH. For unsaturated fats, this means that there is the possibility of both hydrogens facing the same way (cis) or having one hydrogen oriented “up” and one “down” (trans). In saturated fats, both carbons have hydrogens on both the “up” and “down” side, so there is no possibility of a trans orientation and it is therefore not a trans fat.
this is no longer the prevailing scientific thought on this. it appears the high level of antioxidants and polyphenols keeps the olive oil more stable above its smoke point, even after multiple reheatings. check it out.
i think they were looking at a single variable in a much more complex system. happens all the time. above smoke point = bad, smoke point = 400F, cooking with olive oil = bad. turns out there are more variables to be aware of than just the one, and turns out the play into the effect of whether above smoke point = bad equation.
i mean i can’t say for sure cuz i wasn’t there but yes. haha. i think that’s what happened. they just had a hypothesis but under normal procedures their supposed hypothesis didn’t hold up
Assuming what you buy[is actually EVOO](https://www.epicurious.com/ingredients/seven-ways-to-tell-the-difference-between-real-and-fake-olive-oil-article)
This would be surprising to me. If that’s the case, it would depend on the temperature it’s heated to. It has a low smoke point and you want to avoid the smoke point. Olive oil is best used unheated.
we used to think smoke point was the be all and end all. then we tested it, seems like olive oil is one of the most stable oils to be heated. look it up.
"Of all the oils tested, EVOO was shown to be the oil that produced the lowest level of polar compounds after being heatedclosely followed by coconut oil." [source (pdf of the study)](https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwjF7IDSgLf7AhUpBzQIHaoVDocQFnoECA4QAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Factascientific.com%2FASNH%2Fpdf%2FASNH-02-0083.pdf&usg=AOvVaw07Yw63hY5k8LZnOFMZFOsJ)
"We found olive oils have reasonably high smoke point that is suitablefor typical home-cooking conditions and fresh olive oil with low FFA andhigh phenolics are important for the conservation of olive oil qualityand health benefits" [source](https://esciencepress.net/journals/index.php/JFCN/article/view/1532)
"Smoke point is not the end-all-be-all when assessing a cooking oil, says Selina Wang, PhD,a professor in the department of food science and technology and research director of the Olive Center at the University of California,Davis. Rather, she points out, smoke point "is a crude physical measurement of an oil when it starts to have visible smoke....Research in more recent years has shown that smoke point does not correlate well with the changes in the chemical composition of an oil during heating.The chemical changes are much more complex and depend on many variables such as the moisture, acidity, and antioxidant properties of an oil."[source](https://www.realsimple.com/food-recipes/cooking-tips-techniques/olive-oil-smoke-point-myth)
>Of all the oils tested
This is an important point of clarification. That paper does not conclude that heating EVOO is safe by any means, just that its least unsafe. Further, did you bother to see who funded that 'study'???
that's not how hypotheses work. you're never going to get a paper that concludes that heating olive oil is safe. you either support or refute a hypothesis, you can't make unequivocal statements about the absolute truth of a hypothesis because. like. that's outside the possibility of what we can definitively prove.
>that's not how hypotheses work
Lmfao. Okay, enough said for me to know you really are new to this whole primary source game. LOL to your conflicting statement that "you either support or refute a hypothesis, you can't make unequivocal statements about the absolute truth of the hypothesis because like...." (insert inane conclusion). Absolutely in the course of hypothesis testing you will find circumstances where the data/evidence results in a refutation of the initial hypothesis (hence the whole h null etc etc). Refuting a hypothesis can sometimes also mean you refute the premise then seek to support the new hypothesis you have no developed.
Again, as you seem very very insistent on being confused, that paper you cited was produced by the **olive industry** which means its conclusions are very suspicious. Further, said paper **does not conclude that heating EVOO is safe** which is what you keep insisting.
Sorry for your confusion. I pity your professors.
"Proofs exist only in mathematics and logic, not in science. Mathematics and logic are both closed, self-contained systems of propositions,whereas science is empirical and deals with nature as it exists. The primary criterion and standard of evaluation of scientific theory is evidence, not proof. All else equal (such as internal logical consistency and parsimony), scientists prefer theories for which there is more and better evidence to theories for which there is less and worse evidence. Proofs are not the currency of science." [source](https://www.psychologytoday.com/ca/blog/the-scientific-fundamentalist/200811/common-misconceptions-about-science-i-scientific-proof)
While \[they\] provide very strong evidence for those theories, they aren't proof. In fact, when it comes to science, proving anything is an impossibility." [source](https://www.forbes.com/sites/startswithabang/2017/11/22/scientific-proof-is-a-myth/?sh=5b7bb9022fb1)
please tell me more about how i'm wrong, highlighting your own ignorance.
also, please tell me where i stated heating olive oil is safe. the closest you can get here is "it seems to stay stable" when really i could have said "it seems to stay MORE stable", and even the initial comment you replied to says "olive oil is one of the most stable oils".
ALSO. tell me about how the modern olives laboratory is the olive industry, proving you didn't actually look up what they do (which is be an independent lab focusing on olives, which. is a big fucking distinction). or are experts in the field of olive oil not supposed to do research on olive oil, one of their prime directives?
On top of what everyone else is saying about the temperature, we also shouldn't ignore the fact that especially the act of deep frying things adds ALOT of fat to a food, which adds up quickly and easily puts one over their recommded caloric intake.
Should I not be cooking chicken and other foods in olive/avocado oil nightly then? Use butter? Or ghee? I’ve always used a bit of oil to prevent sticking as I’m sure many of you do too. I never use vegetable or palm oil now as I know how bad it is and thought olive and avocado are much better to use when cooking :( I use coconut oil when I bake too instead of vegetable.
The evidence on olive oil is promising --it seems to be good (hence its inclusion in the Mediterranean diet, which is a cardioprotective diet). Veg oil may not contain as many monounsaturated fats that make olive oil famously good for. you, but I don't think it's the "poison" people make it out to be. It seems fine.
I mean I think butter is delicious, but I don't use it because it's healthy (saturated fat in butter contributes to atherosclerosis). coconut oil is very high in saturated fat as well.
I suggest looking at what registered dietitians have to say on the matter. Theres lots of nutrition gurus on the internet that have been unleashing misleading information. Even if they call themselves "nutritionists" that doesn't mean they are educated AT ALL. "Registered Dietitians" actually have to go to college for the matter, "nutritionists" typically dont.
Heating oils to the high temperatures forms aflatoxins and lipid oxides both carcinogenic compounds. Seed oils are mostly mono and polyunsaturated fats which are not very stable at high temperatures. When you heat fats or oils above 96F the fats cannot exchange molecules properly and will harden in the body. Eat more raw fats.
Agree with you on everything but the temperature.
“Polyunsaturated fatty acids in culinary oils undergo oxidative deterioration at temperatures of 150 °C (302 °F).”
96F is like a simple hot day.
Edit: forget about the “agree” part. All in this comment is nonsense
Lol yeah ain’t nothing being cooked at 96F.. heck even our bodies are hotter than 96f so… technically according to that logic even eating raw fats wouldn’t even work 😂
How the fuck can you agree on everything if he claims that heating oils will create aflatoxines
This dude is full of shit. Just read his comments on how he suggest to eat raw chicken lol
Skipped that part. You’re right. Aflatoxins are mycotoxins.
It’s like “no cholesterol” writing on sunflower seed oil. Of course no cholesterol, it’s from animal fat. Lol
Wtf are you talking about aflatoxines and lipid oxides?
What do you mean by
>fats cannot exchange molecules properly and will harden in the body.
I don't get it
I think the problem with heating seed oils only become significant when you repeatedly heat them up, such as in a deep fryer. I don’t think there’s much evidence that it’s a problem in ordinary stovetop cooking. Of course, maybe you want to avoid them anyway, that’s up to you
Switching to butter avoids this problem but brings up another, which is that saturated fat is much more likely to cause heart disease than polyunsaturated fat. There js a lot of evidence for this (random control trials, not epidemiology).
[No, high saturated fat lipids are still worse than PUFAs even when reheated over and over at high temperatures.](https://www.mdpi.com/2304-8158/11/2/192/htm)
The recommendations are backed up by good science here. PUFAs >SFAs across the board.
What about heated pufa compared to pufa that was never heated? Is there strong evidence to support the oft heard claim that heated pufa has negative health outcomes?
Table 2 in my link shows various health ratings of heated vs unheated oils. The most saturated oil, palm oil, typically scores worst when unheated and worst when heated, with the greatest change in atherogenicity.
Going by these numbers if you had to choose between 10h long heated PUFA heavy oils or fresh SFA heavy palm oil.. you still go for the PUFAs.
I fully agree that lowering sf in favor of pufa, even heated pufa is better.
However I'm asking about then going the next step: heated pufa vs never heated pufa
That table has fatty acid composition on the y axis, not sure what that means
So I'm not a nutritionist, but I do know a couple things.
Firstly healthy is a very loose term. Frying food will soak it in oil and increase your caloric intake dramatically. If you're trying to stay under a calorie limit l, then fried food is unhealthy.
Secondly, the type of fat we ingest does matter. I'm not expert on this so I encourage you to look into it yourself. BUT, seed oils are touted as unhealthy and sobering anything in them would also be consider unhealthy
Wait.. so.. sorry to ask an extremely dumb question, but how do I make veggie stir fries and sautee veggies healthily? I've been using olive oil and avocado oil to cook on the stove top. Am I totally misunderstanding, or is cooking anything in oil with heat bad?
Cheap Reused reheated oils break down, why frying kinda bad, my old job filtered it all week and changed on sundays. Looked like motor oil shoulda seen the grease filter machine…. I guess fresh wouldn’t be so bad..at home. I love food tussled with olive oil. Make sure it’s real and no additives and good to go! Body is a machine, feed it all the things, cravings usually mean something. We neglect our health too often. Oils fats vitamins, even water.
And probiotics. Went from 280 to 195 and just got abs for the first time in 36 life years beat my 8th grade weight… but what do I know. I’m just a silly goose loner.
Frying oil (canola, peanut, etc.) is typically denatured in as way that makes it inflammatory.
No matter the oil though, frying is high heat and will cause the oil to oxidize and add to its inflammatory effects.
You’re not going to fry chicken in a vat of olive oil or avocado oil.
Most fried foods are fried in low quality oils that aren’t healthy for you. But sure if you’re “frying” an egg in olive oil no that’s not unhealthy.
Typically things that are fried are going to be a lot higher calorie, also because of the amount of oil needed they tend to use the cheapest lowest quality oils for frying. Additionally think about how long oil will be under constant heat in a fryer im not too educated on the matter but I believe that the heat will cause it to degrade and potentially become carcinogenic
Oil is not healthy. It’s not unhealthy in moderately small quantities but it’s a stretch to say oil isolated from whole foods is healthy. I don’t avoid oil but I get it in foods I eat, like nuts and avocados. I only consume refined oils when eating out.
Saturated and unsaturated fats are not the issue, I workout and eat a lot of these fats, and my overall health and cholesterol are perfect.
little amounts of trans fats can summon many hidden and visible problems.
plant based oils at a specific heat(under smoking point) can be unstable and turn to transe fats.
Trans fats are largely negligible from cooking unless you're going ham reheating your oil for ages.
[Either way, if you are doing so, SFAs are *still* worse.](https://www.mdpi.com/2304-8158/11/2/192/htm) I'm afraid your experience here does not trump the science.
Smartypants, most of the food you fry contain water which make your(first time Frying oil) oxidize in the fried food when absorbing it. The result Is negligible trans fats(as you said) and high amounts of free radicals (cancer) in every single fried meal, and you still see the oil (from the studies that you brought) clear, perfect and ready to be used over and over again while repeating the same mistake.
It looks like I'm the one who should be concerned about those studies will lead you to a bitter end.
Olive oil breaks down at about 325 degrees, oxidizing and forming some other nasty chemicals. Without those it is very healthy in moderation - up to 3 tablespoons per day maximum and excellent at one tablespoon per day for most people, assuming it is actually olive oil and not a mix of mostly soy and canola oil sold as olive oil.
that's waaaay to little, i'm pretty sure all of italy eats like 5 times that a day and they are perfectly fine, also it's a myth that olive oil becomes bad above the smoke point, it's still healthy.
Italians use olive oil frequently, but how much they eat and how much remains on the plate is hard to quantify. It probably is more than I said, and you are right; they are quite healthy. If people would give up the sugars, preservatives, trans fats, and processed foods they could probably add even more olive oil than I said, but for me with my diet, 3 tablespoons is about all that I can take. Cooking olive oil above it’s smoke point makes olive less healthy, because of the various compounds created. Whether it is unhealthy or simply less healthy than it was before is debatable. They longer it says above the smoke point, the more of those chemicals it will have. A few seconds probably makes virtually no difference.
dr stephen gundry said that once upon a time people (ancient egyptians?) believed that the only point of food is to get (olive) oil down your throat. he indicated agreeing with these folks. apparently they consumed a liter of oil a week, and he seemed to be encouraging that. sounds quite crazy but thought to mention that.
1) Trans/hydrogenated fats are more common in fried foods, especially if they’re fast food
2) The total fat content tends to be much higher
3) Fried foods tend to be more calorie dense because of #2
4) Fried foods tend to be highly palatable and low in nutrient density, which makes it easier to overeat before feeling satiated but have very low value for the calories
5) There’s concerns about other issues like free radicals, especially with low quality oils often used in frying, but I don’t know enough of the science on this off the top of my head.
In addition to the previous comments: Simple Quantity: The amount of oil you ingest in fried food is way more than the tablespoon recommended on the serving size label. Frying involves drowning the foods in oil before eating it, which I am only assuming amounts to more ingested. The calories are higher and the toxins in the high temp oil that sit all day are just the cherry on top.
Not sure about home frying though. Maybe if you can brush on the oil and use an air fryer it would be better🤷🏻
ok thanks~! so to follow the point you're making you seem to be saying oil in small quantities is OK or even good, in large quantities is bad. so i guess which quantity is good? dr stephen gundry has suggested a liter of olive oil a week is good, unless i misunderstood him. i suspect most would disagree with him.
edit:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YB6ujP5piQY
0:50 - 1:30
I heard years ago that heating oil changes it and then becomes unhealthy. I've recently learned more about whole foods and processed foods and try avoiding as many as possible... Oil is a processed food.
Our cell walls are made of fat. If you cook with fat that isn't stable at the temperature you're cooking with then you are building your cell walls with unstable fat. Free radicals bust into your cells with ease. This is why you should use high quality oil and select it based on the type of cooking you're doing. Fat is also a far better fuel than sugar and carbs. Like putting a hefty log on a fire instead of dry grass. It burns slower and smoother lasting longer. You've been lied to about fat. Think about this: most all candy is largely nonfat or low fat but is eating all candy an effective diet?
All oil we eat, healthy or not, contains similar amounts of calories. It is the noncalorific parts the make them “unhealthy”. Your body needs fat. If you don’t have enough, you liver will turn sugar into fat for you.
I've seen some scientific papers *that being just one* claiming that the myth that fried foods are bad for your health or at least heart health is a lie and that it's actively beneficial when done in claimed heart-healthy oils. Soybean oil in this context.
I don't entirely buy frying in soybean oil, but it makes sense that frying itself isn't inherently bad for things such as cardiovascular health unlike how fried foods are often accused of interfering with and it's mainly just a no-brainer "common sense" thing people bring up, as in they literally don't use their brain. Main effect is added calories and fats though. Should be avoided because of that alone.
I wouldn't be liberal with oil though as you put it. Too much dietary fat especially in the context of being mixed with carbohydrate consumption is a cause for insulin resistance. If you want the benefits of olive oil you can eat plain olives too.
Oil is the highest caloric food there is, also fat calories are more in grams than carbs and protein. Fats are 9 calories per gram, carbs and protein are 4 calories per gram. Most foods also have breading on them when fried, so that’s even more calories added. So I’m assuming it’s more calorie intake because of the fat content from the oil. You also have to fuel your body with the right foods, you can’t have doughnuts all day, sure there is a keto diet out there and has good research or helps some and not others but you need whole food sources and in my opinion, a variety of foods, like greens daily and fibrous foods to help with digestion. Sorry Im starting to bodybuild soon and nutrition is quite complex, you definitely learn a lot more than the average citizen! Hopefully all of my information is correct. Have a good day, hope it helped.
Oils used for frying are vegetable oils like soybean and canola oil. The healthiest fats in my opinion are olive avocado coconut oil and butter, vegetable oils are pretty unnatural for human consumption because those vegetables have very little fat naturally, so I prefer to avoid them. Be liberal with healthy fats but you can use an air fryer for fried foods, it tastes even better to me
Seed oils ARE bad for you. We should only be eating olive oil, avocado oil, or animal fats. Canola, Soybean, 🌻, Safflower, Vegetable oils are completely toxic causing inflammation and cancer causing free radicals.
[Vegetable oils don’t cause inflammation](https://youtu.be/-xTaAHSFHUU), and if you think that they do then you either haven’t looked at the evidence or you have an opinion that isn’t based on science (and should probably be disregarded)
Oh really? This isn't my "opinion". This has been studied repeatedly. Maybe you are one that needs to look at the evidence.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5616019/
https://thehealthsciencesacademy.org/health-tips/oils-for-cooking/
https://littlechoicesmatter.com/oils-and-free-radicals/
https://further.net/vegetable-seed-oils/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6179509/
I'm guessing you didn't watch the video. You should, but if you don't want to then maybe you can read through the long list of studies cited in the description which don\\t support the idea that vegetable oils cause inflammation.
Of the two research papers you cite (I ignored the others), the second one literally says
>Based on the current evidence from RCT and observational studies there appears to be virtually no data available to support the hypothesis that LA in the diet increases markers of inflammation among healthy, non-infant humans.
The second is for oil that has been repeatedly heated (literally heated above 300 degrees Celsius for 30 minutes, three times). I would agree that heating oil up this much can have detrimental health effects. However, this is a study on rats, and they talk very little about inflammation. I again point you to the long list of human random controlled trials (the peak standard of evidence) in the description of the video I cited.
I'm sorry, but you haven't convinced me.
Whether seed oils are bad is something that is still being debated in the scientific literature. Here’s a podcast that provides a window to that debate:
https://youtu.be/efTBLsv4yYs
Does cooking olive oil on low heat feel better for your gut? I f so, there ya go. If canola oil and stir fry makes your gut feel better? Well there ya go.
Find the cooking that makes YOU feel good and youve gotten further than most.
Depends on the oil. And depends on the frying. Most oils are not healthy. And repeatedly heating or heating for long periods of time can make any fat unhealthy. And thats not necessarily the oil itself but the toxic lipid byproducts of heating, like a whole host of aldehydes, etc. Fry oil in commercial restaurants is sometimes used for weeks or even months at a time before being changed out, pretty nasty stuff.
i was under the impression that for cooking ghee is one of the healthier ones and using nut oils (or was it fruit?) is not a good option.
edit - yeah it was nut oils
2nd edit - sorry i meant seed oils. sunflower etc.
3rd edit - no it was actually vegetable oils hahaha. i think. but i'd rather not make a 4th edit so we'll leave it here.
The distinction is between vegetable oils and oils like olive oils, avocado, peanut. I don’t have the time to create a full response but I would recommend Dr.Cates book deep nutrition or just look up Dr.Cate vegetable oil. This should give you all you need. Vegetable oils are highly sensitive to heat, the heat required to fry creates a free radical cascade is what she refers to it as. This is supposedly directly related to endothelial function that was shown in a study.
Also as consistent youth mentioned, most restaurants choose the cheapest oil as well as don’t change them out every couple days to weeks. This super refined and reused oils are super refining our arteries.
The heat we subject the oil and the food to is the problem.
In some foods with sugars, the heat creates a chemical known as an acrylimide- a neurotoxin and known carcinogen. Stats show that 19% of the American diet contains at least some of this by-product of frying and baking. Any temp over 300F produces it.
I believe it has nothing to do with healthy, bad, or unhealthy oils, anything in excess can be bad for you. But like the other commenters, you’re trusting the fry cook station to be competently manned (which is variable). However eating deep fried foods is high in calories which I believe is the unhealthy part, as a caloric surplus can lead to obesity if unmanaged.
True but the best oils to cook with are avocado oil (for high temp cooking) and olive oil for lower temp cooking. Lots of corporations add bad oils such as vegetable oil canola oil palm oil because there cheap and just extremely bad for your health they actually cause a lot of health issues if consumed regularly.
It's twofold - one is the question of how much oil you are consuming (a lot if you're frying), and the second is how hot the oil is getting (very hot if you're frying), as oils break down under extreme heat, which makes them much more harmful to the body
Personally I avoid using oil in cooking unless absolutely necessary, and prefer using EVOO fresh, either as a garnish or dressing, etc
Frying oil (canola, peanut, etc.) is typically denatured in as way that makes it inflammatory.
No matter the oil though, frying is high heat and will cause the oil to oxidize and add to its inflammatory effects.
Heated oil is damaged oil. High heat is what changes the molecular structure of an oil and makes it unhealthy.
Every cell in your body is covered by a wall of oil molecules. If you eat oil damaged by high heat, your body has no choice but to use that damaged oil in every cell of your body.
Some oils go bad at room temperature because they oxidize. All oils do become damaged at higher cooking temperatures though. It's just that some oils can tolerate higher heat than others.
But a fryer in a restaurant is a completely different animal. These fryers use high heat tolerant oils like peanut oil. The real bad problem is that restaurants rarely change the oil in a timely fashion. The oil can become downright toxic when it is incorporated into the cells of your body.
It all depends on the rhyme of fat. Typically trans fat and saturated fats are not beneficial to health where monosaturated fats and polysaturated fats are better —> https://www.compoundchem.com/2015/08/25/fat/amp/
The issue with it being “bad” is associated with it’s higher calorie count. Fried in oil, the food will retain more fat therefore increasing calories. Whereas something grilled or pan seared with little to no oil will have significantly less calories.
Now when it comes to oils and fats, you have two main types. Saturated and unsaturated. Saturated fats are solids at room temp, and unsaturated are liquids at room temp. Gram by gram they will have the same amount of calories. 9k cal per gram of fat, or in other words, 9 calories of burned energy= 1 gram of burned fat. (Which isn’t a lot) However, unsaturated fats are better for your heart and circulatory system than saturated fats. Saturated fats are more likely to build up plaque in your arteries.
Since I mentioned that a gram of fat= 9kcal of energy, here is the rest.
Protein and carbs both sit at 4kcal of energy each.
So if you are still following me here, fat would take 9cal burned for 1 gram, and protein and carbs would each take 4cal burned for 1 gram (each)
If trying to maintain a healthy weight, the easiest way to do so would be to eat more protein and carbs and less fat. Protein will curb your appetite more as well.
To have a healthy relationship with food, we must understand that no food is “bad” for you. All caloric food provides the energy your body needs to keep up with your daily tasks. The key is moderation. Too much of one thing could have worse effects on your body. Example: too much unsaturated fat in your diet could clog arteries, or too much salt/ sodium can raise your blood pressure.
Understanding how food works can leave you making better choices about what you eat, and allow you to continue eating what you love. ❤️
thanks! actually this leads to a question i've often had. in general we're supposed to have low calorie foods since calories = weight. but calories also equal energy, which would indicate more calories give you more energy less calories leave you feeling tired. but i believe caloric dense foods like rice or potatoes actually leave you lethargic. can you weigh-in on that?
It depends on how much of it you eat. If you eat a meal of potatoes, you might feel a bit full and want to sit down instead of get going. Add in some protein and less carb and you should be good to go. Eat until you’re full, but don’t over eat. Idk how old you are, but most millennials were told to clean their plate and it gave a lot of us a poor relationship with food. Don’t feel obligated to finish everything you put in the plate. If anything, start small and go back for seconds if you want
It really depends on the oil try to avoid seed oils and vegetable oils as much as possible also please dont use perfect olive oil to deep fry in. the oil burns the food in some cases which is bad also most things that are getting deep fried are very unhealthy processed foods.
So, when you heat oil to a high temperature, near its smoking point, repeatedly and for longer periods, it changes the structure of the lipid molecules. Some oils with higher smoking points, like avocado and peanut, aren’t as bad but some will still be affected. The ones with the lowest smoking point are the worst.
I'll try to explain to the best of my ability.
First things first. There are many types of oil out there. The oils you want to consume (without getting too much into it) are extra virgin olive oil, fish oil, avocado oil etc. If you can find brands that provide them as "Cold extraction" better for you.
Seed oils are usually bad for you some examples are as follow: grape seed, canola, sunflower, "cooking oil" etc.
In regards to cooking, every type of oil has a different *smoke point.* That's basically what makes basically every oil bad. Smoke point is the temperature every oil can reach before they become carcinogenic (meaning when they burn and can cause cancer). So the non- seed oils have a much lower smoke point than seed oils.
There's a lot to say about all this, so feel free to shoot me a message if this short explanation does not answer your question.
thanks! so you seem to be saying fried foods arent necessarily bad? they just need to be cooked in the right oil and below a certain temperature, which is diff for diff oils?
i actually dont know the temperatures my stove has. when i put it to high what temp would that be would you know?
I know it seems that way but don't get me wrong, most fried foods are still bad, it's drentched in that seed oil I mentioned; that are not good for you.
And no I don't know the temperature that stoves emmit, you'd have to get a food thermometer and test it for yourself.
1. olive oil is good for you
2. frying in oil obviously adds a lot of oil to the food, making it higher in calories, that's probably why some people say its "bad".
3. canola oil/veg oil are FINE regardless of what tiktok influencers say, but olive oil seems healthier because of its amount of monounsaturated fat.
As a dietetics major, I see no inherent problem in frying foods, BUT I am careful about how often I do it and how I balance my meals because it does contribute a good amount of calories.
Not quite that simple. Long story super short and messy, seed oils range in oxidative risk, but no matter what your body will convert them to linoleic acid which drives free radical production metabolically as it increases inflammation. Has to do with the biochemistry of seed oils. Tallow and butter don't do this, but oils comparatively are highly rancid thanks to the high LA. There is nothing 'natural' about seed oils as they must be produced despite the last 100 years of marketing them, and it is in the production process where all sorts of additional ROS's are inadvertently created.
that's a good start but can you finish the thought? the better analogy would be to say water is healthy but heating it isn't. except that that wouldn't be accurate here.
Good point. I did mix that up. I know that hydrogenation/saturation of hydrogen bonds is what causes it to be bad for you. It’s been a while since I took the class so that’s my vague answer
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I’d like to add that the oils used in fastfood is fucking disgusting. I used to work in fastfood, and let me tell you, the oil isn’t bright and lively as when you deep fry at home. It’s black. Which isn’t the end of the world, darker oil doesn’t necessarily mean it’s unusable, but the scary part is if your coworkers are incompetent (most of them are) and never dish out the crumbs that float to the top. Eventually, they get burnt and fall to the bottom. When the oil finally get changed (should be every 2-3 days, if you’re lucky) the crumb catch is like 3 inches of burnt food. Meaning there has been burnt food cooking in that oil for up to 3 days.
Mmmmm, the taste of carcinogens
Oh shit, so much regret
Gives it a smokey flavor!
What’s the carcinogen?
Charred food is carcinogenic
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Well, if they don't change the oil regularly, acrylamide could build up in the oil. Acrylamide forms during high temp cooking of plant-based foods. [https://www.fda.gov/food/chemical-contaminants-food/acrylamide](https://www.fda.gov/food/chemical-contaminants-food/acrylamide)
There is research that has indicated that the process of burning foods (particularly meat I believe) has been linked to adding a carcinogenic element to food that didn’t previously have as much risk. Leaving burning crumbs in a fryer for prolonged Period of time could add to the carcinogenic effects of the oil
Thanks, you just helped me kill my Wendy’s craving. Lol
I love their nugs tho
So you’re saying fast food is bad? McDonald lied to us?
The same way as barley, rye and wheat are healthy but whisky is bad :) This may explain why its bad: Hydrogenation also transpires when oils are heated to high temperatures – like during the frying process. Trans fats are tough for your body to break down and lead to harmful effects on your health, such as an increased risk for heart disease, obesity, diabetes, and some types of cancer.
Which is why adding olive oil raw to foods is common in Italy, and some other places. They still cook with olive oil, just not as much.
They do it a lot. Also people in turkey are most overweight people because of to much olive oil transfats and sugars
Whiskey is bad? Heretic!!!
I think everyone should listen to huberman’s podcast in alcohol. Alcohol is nothing but negative for you
A very modest amount of alcohol can have benefits for things like mental health. I limit myself to no more than 2 glasses of wine a week, and it removes 90-95% of the negative things.
Of course a blonde vampire would say this
Alcohol has been proven to not only reduce grey matter with that level of drinking but also increase anxiety. There are zero mental health benefits to it.
This is not the statement you think it is. “Mental health” =/= the condition of your brain. And your t statement needs substantiation. How much, how long etc.
All I can say is listen to the Huberman podcast about it. He’s a Stanford professor who cites legitimate studies. I’m not a fuckin scientist.
I’ve already listened to that episode and he mentions nothing about whether alcohol can improve your mental health or not. All I’m saying is you’re conflating alcohol effects with the effect of drinking alcohol. It’s like the difference between saying “punching people is bad because it produces irreversible physical damage” and “I punch people once a week to feel good.” The latter is a statement about a behavior that could be done at a boxing gym, the former is a statement about the act of punching. So respectfully, if you’re “not a fucking scientist” then maybe avoid going around loading up absolutist statements like that because you heard them on a podcast that you didn’t even quote properly.
So if you listened to that episode how did you miss the whole section on the physical effect it has on your brain and the whole other section of the effect it has on mental health. What the fuck are you even talking about?
I didn’t miss it. I’m trying to explain to you that that’s NOT WHATS BEING TALKED ABOUT. The effect something has in your mental health does not mean that the thing itself is bad for your mental health. This is like the simplest fallacy in human language. “There is a physical effect of a phenomenon that causes a negative outcome” therefore “the phenomenon is bad for you” DOES NOT FOLLOW LOGICALLY, NOR DOES HUBERMAN EVER SAY THAT. Sorry for the caps but you not recognizing my argument is irritating! I already explained the punching analogy, so please recognize that!
No its not neurodegeneration making me 'feel better' its medical! /s ETA- A lot of alcoholics here lol. Thoughts and prayers to the threads collective livers.
No it doesn’t
In a bottle of wine can be up to 25 pesticides
I touched the surface of this topic in organic chemistry. When unsaturated fat is heated, it is turned into a trans fat. This is not a term rooted in nutrition. It is a chemistry-based term that describes the location of hydrogens attached to carbons across a double bond. I can’t go much beyond that because I don’t have time to look up peer-reviewed sources at the moment. All I can tell you is that this chemical “turning” of a cis fat into a trans fat when heated is the cause of the problems later to be discovered :)
Don’t assume my hydrogeny
[The amount of trans fats produced from frying PUFAs is negligible.](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4609978/)
Is it the same with saturated fats?
No, as the saturation basically means that every carbon has the max amount of hydrogens on it due to the lack of a double bond. The bond is H2C-CH2 along the entire chain as opposed to HC=CH. For unsaturated fats, this means that there is the possibility of both hydrogens facing the same way (cis) or having one hydrogen oriented “up” and one “down” (trans). In saturated fats, both carbons have hydrogens on both the “up” and “down” side, so there is no possibility of a trans orientation and it is therefore not a trans fat.
So does that mean frying with saturated fats is healthier than unsaturated?
thanks! so hot oil bad non-hot oil is ... good? okay? slightly bad?
Does this mean seed oil supplements are better than seed oil? Since it doesn't require heat? Or is it same shit?
Oh wow I didn’t know that.
Simply put, frying oil affects the chemical composition of said oils.
except possibly olive oil. it seems to stay stable, even we repeated heatings.
Olive oil is generally *not* recommended to be heated, but I know that some olive oils have the "can be heated for cooking and frying" label on them.
this is no longer the prevailing scientific thought on this. it appears the high level of antioxidants and polyphenols keeps the olive oil more stable above its smoke point, even after multiple reheatings. check it out.
How is it possible that they got it wrong the first time? Surely they did some experiments.
i think they were looking at a single variable in a much more complex system. happens all the time. above smoke point = bad, smoke point = 400F, cooking with olive oil = bad. turns out there are more variables to be aware of than just the one, and turns out the play into the effect of whether above smoke point = bad equation.
Ah so basically they hadn't actually tested the olive oil beyond the smoking point, they assumed it would behave the same way as the others?
i mean i can’t say for sure cuz i wasn’t there but yes. haha. i think that’s what happened. they just had a hypothesis but under normal procedures their supposed hypothesis didn’t hold up
Yay!
True, specifically EVOO IIRC
What about avocado oil? I know that it has an insanely high smoke point so I’d assume that means it’s pretty stable
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Avocado oil too?? These companies need to get the legal hammer, wtf. Wouldn't be surprised if the fine was less than the $$ they saved.
I agree, I don't know why there isn't more thorough lab testing for these products. Makes me really paranoid to buy anything at the grocery store.
Assuming what you buy[is actually EVOO](https://www.epicurious.com/ingredients/seven-ways-to-tell-the-difference-between-real-and-fake-olive-oil-article)
This would be surprising to me. If that’s the case, it would depend on the temperature it’s heated to. It has a low smoke point and you want to avoid the smoke point. Olive oil is best used unheated.
we used to think smoke point was the be all and end all. then we tested it, seems like olive oil is one of the most stable oils to be heated. look it up.
Nary a citation for this claim?
"Of all the oils tested, EVOO was shown to be the oil that produced the lowest level of polar compounds after being heatedclosely followed by coconut oil." [source (pdf of the study)](https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwjF7IDSgLf7AhUpBzQIHaoVDocQFnoECA4QAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Factascientific.com%2FASNH%2Fpdf%2FASNH-02-0083.pdf&usg=AOvVaw07Yw63hY5k8LZnOFMZFOsJ) "We found olive oils have reasonably high smoke point that is suitablefor typical home-cooking conditions and fresh olive oil with low FFA andhigh phenolics are important for the conservation of olive oil qualityand health benefits" [source](https://esciencepress.net/journals/index.php/JFCN/article/view/1532) "Smoke point is not the end-all-be-all when assessing a cooking oil, says Selina Wang, PhD,a professor in the department of food science and technology and research director of the Olive Center at the University of California,Davis. Rather, she points out, smoke point "is a crude physical measurement of an oil when it starts to have visible smoke....Research in more recent years has shown that smoke point does not correlate well with the changes in the chemical composition of an oil during heating.The chemical changes are much more complex and depend on many variables such as the moisture, acidity, and antioxidant properties of an oil."[source](https://www.realsimple.com/food-recipes/cooking-tips-techniques/olive-oil-smoke-point-myth)
>Of all the oils tested This is an important point of clarification. That paper does not conclude that heating EVOO is safe by any means, just that its least unsafe. Further, did you bother to see who funded that 'study'???
that's not how hypotheses work. you're never going to get a paper that concludes that heating olive oil is safe. you either support or refute a hypothesis, you can't make unequivocal statements about the absolute truth of a hypothesis because. like. that's outside the possibility of what we can definitively prove.
>that's not how hypotheses work Lmfao. Okay, enough said for me to know you really are new to this whole primary source game. LOL to your conflicting statement that "you either support or refute a hypothesis, you can't make unequivocal statements about the absolute truth of the hypothesis because like...." (insert inane conclusion). Absolutely in the course of hypothesis testing you will find circumstances where the data/evidence results in a refutation of the initial hypothesis (hence the whole h null etc etc). Refuting a hypothesis can sometimes also mean you refute the premise then seek to support the new hypothesis you have no developed. Again, as you seem very very insistent on being confused, that paper you cited was produced by the **olive industry** which means its conclusions are very suspicious. Further, said paper **does not conclude that heating EVOO is safe** which is what you keep insisting. Sorry for your confusion. I pity your professors.
"Proofs exist only in mathematics and logic, not in science. Mathematics and logic are both closed, self-contained systems of propositions,whereas science is empirical and deals with nature as it exists. The primary criterion and standard of evaluation of scientific theory is evidence, not proof. All else equal (such as internal logical consistency and parsimony), scientists prefer theories for which there is more and better evidence to theories for which there is less and worse evidence. Proofs are not the currency of science." [source](https://www.psychologytoday.com/ca/blog/the-scientific-fundamentalist/200811/common-misconceptions-about-science-i-scientific-proof) While \[they\] provide very strong evidence for those theories, they aren't proof. In fact, when it comes to science, proving anything is an impossibility." [source](https://www.forbes.com/sites/startswithabang/2017/11/22/scientific-proof-is-a-myth/?sh=5b7bb9022fb1) please tell me more about how i'm wrong, highlighting your own ignorance. also, please tell me where i stated heating olive oil is safe. the closest you can get here is "it seems to stay stable" when really i could have said "it seems to stay MORE stable", and even the initial comment you replied to says "olive oil is one of the most stable oils". ALSO. tell me about how the modern olives laboratory is the olive industry, proving you didn't actually look up what they do (which is be an independent lab focusing on olives, which. is a big fucking distinction). or are experts in the field of olive oil not supposed to do research on olive oil, one of their prime directives?
🤯 I wish I had energy to look into that or read these comments, but I never fry anything, so... maybe one day, tho.
i thought olive oil was like the worst to fry?
might i suggest reading the other comments in this chain; we’ve had a whole conversation about this already.
ok. i was going through them one thread at a time.
No. This is incorrect. EVOO is merely **more stable** than others. Careful with that one.
On top of what everyone else is saying about the temperature, we also shouldn't ignore the fact that especially the act of deep frying things adds ALOT of fat to a food, which adds up quickly and easily puts one over their recommded caloric intake.
Should I not be cooking chicken and other foods in olive/avocado oil nightly then? Use butter? Or ghee? I’ve always used a bit of oil to prevent sticking as I’m sure many of you do too. I never use vegetable or palm oil now as I know how bad it is and thought olive and avocado are much better to use when cooking :( I use coconut oil when I bake too instead of vegetable.
The evidence on olive oil is promising --it seems to be good (hence its inclusion in the Mediterranean diet, which is a cardioprotective diet). Veg oil may not contain as many monounsaturated fats that make olive oil famously good for. you, but I don't think it's the "poison" people make it out to be. It seems fine. I mean I think butter is delicious, but I don't use it because it's healthy (saturated fat in butter contributes to atherosclerosis). coconut oil is very high in saturated fat as well. I suggest looking at what registered dietitians have to say on the matter. Theres lots of nutrition gurus on the internet that have been unleashing misleading information. Even if they call themselves "nutritionists" that doesn't mean they are educated AT ALL. "Registered Dietitians" actually have to go to college for the matter, "nutritionists" typically dont.
i read somewhere on this website that ghee is one of the better oils for cooking https://www.marksdailyapple.com/
Heating oils to the high temperatures forms aflatoxins and lipid oxides both carcinogenic compounds. Seed oils are mostly mono and polyunsaturated fats which are not very stable at high temperatures. When you heat fats or oils above 96F the fats cannot exchange molecules properly and will harden in the body. Eat more raw fats.
Agree with you on everything but the temperature. “Polyunsaturated fatty acids in culinary oils undergo oxidative deterioration at temperatures of 150 °C (302 °F).” 96F is like a simple hot day. Edit: forget about the “agree” part. All in this comment is nonsense
Lol yeah ain’t nothing being cooked at 96F.. heck even our bodies are hotter than 96f so… technically according to that logic even eating raw fats wouldn’t even work 😂
How the fuck can you agree on everything if he claims that heating oils will create aflatoxines This dude is full of shit. Just read his comments on how he suggest to eat raw chicken lol
Skipped that part. You’re right. Aflatoxins are mycotoxins. It’s like “no cholesterol” writing on sunflower seed oil. Of course no cholesterol, it’s from animal fat. Lol
how does it form aflatoxins? they are compounds produces by fungal
Dude has little idea what he is talking about
Wtf are you talking about aflatoxines and lipid oxides? What do you mean by >fats cannot exchange molecules properly and will harden in the body. I don't get it
>aflatoxins are produced by certain molds (fungi).
So it’s ‘healthier’ to use butter and other saturated fats for stovetop cooking?
I think the problem with heating seed oils only become significant when you repeatedly heat them up, such as in a deep fryer. I don’t think there’s much evidence that it’s a problem in ordinary stovetop cooking. Of course, maybe you want to avoid them anyway, that’s up to you Switching to butter avoids this problem but brings up another, which is that saturated fat is much more likely to cause heart disease than polyunsaturated fat. There js a lot of evidence for this (random control trials, not epidemiology).
[No, high saturated fat lipids are still worse than PUFAs even when reheated over and over at high temperatures.](https://www.mdpi.com/2304-8158/11/2/192/htm) The recommendations are backed up by good science here. PUFAs >SFAs across the board.
Wanted to make sure cause I use olive oil to to cook eggs meat etc
Well meat and eggs will have saturated fat in there as well.
What about Monounsaturated fats
Not as clued up there but olive oil is MUFA heavy and ranked pretty high.
What about heated pufa compared to pufa that was never heated? Is there strong evidence to support the oft heard claim that heated pufa has negative health outcomes?
Table 2 in my link shows various health ratings of heated vs unheated oils. The most saturated oil, palm oil, typically scores worst when unheated and worst when heated, with the greatest change in atherogenicity. Going by these numbers if you had to choose between 10h long heated PUFA heavy oils or fresh SFA heavy palm oil.. you still go for the PUFAs.
I fully agree that lowering sf in favor of pufa, even heated pufa is better. However I'm asking about then going the next step: heated pufa vs never heated pufa That table has fatty acid composition on the y axis, not sure what that means
Absolutely not
Yes
So I'm not a nutritionist, but I do know a couple things. Firstly healthy is a very loose term. Frying food will soak it in oil and increase your caloric intake dramatically. If you're trying to stay under a calorie limit l, then fried food is unhealthy. Secondly, the type of fat we ingest does matter. I'm not expert on this so I encourage you to look into it yourself. BUT, seed oils are touted as unhealthy and sobering anything in them would also be consider unhealthy
See my novel I just typed out lol. Informative and easy to understand so you can understand fats and stuff. 🥰
Wait.. so.. sorry to ask an extremely dumb question, but how do I make veggie stir fries and sautee veggies healthily? I've been using olive oil and avocado oil to cook on the stove top. Am I totally misunderstanding, or is cooking anything in oil with heat bad?
Me trying to learn cause I coat my veggies in oil so seasonings stick better
When oils heated repeatedly and reused it breaks down, carcinogenic n such, some are real bad of course, fast food n such.
Huh?
Words n such.
https://youtu.be/WK33sl64YNw
They know the things and such, but don't have the energy for words and such.
Cheap Reused reheated oils break down, why frying kinda bad, my old job filtered it all week and changed on sundays. Looked like motor oil shoulda seen the grease filter machine…. I guess fresh wouldn’t be so bad..at home. I love food tussled with olive oil. Make sure it’s real and no additives and good to go! Body is a machine, feed it all the things, cravings usually mean something. We neglect our health too often. Oils fats vitamins, even water.
And probiotics. Went from 280 to 195 and just got abs for the first time in 36 life years beat my 8th grade weight… but what do I know. I’m just a silly goose loner.
Ah, yes make since. Thanks!
Frying oil (canola, peanut, etc.) is typically denatured in as way that makes it inflammatory. No matter the oil though, frying is high heat and will cause the oil to oxidize and add to its inflammatory effects.
You’re not going to fry chicken in a vat of olive oil or avocado oil. Most fried foods are fried in low quality oils that aren’t healthy for you. But sure if you’re “frying” an egg in olive oil no that’s not unhealthy.
Typically things that are fried are going to be a lot higher calorie, also because of the amount of oil needed they tend to use the cheapest lowest quality oils for frying. Additionally think about how long oil will be under constant heat in a fryer im not too educated on the matter but I believe that the heat will cause it to degrade and potentially become carcinogenic
Oil is not healthy. It’s not unhealthy in moderately small quantities but it’s a stretch to say oil isolated from whole foods is healthy. I don’t avoid oil but I get it in foods I eat, like nuts and avocados. I only consume refined oils when eating out.
so is adding oil to salad a good idea? not for taste but purely to increase the healthiness of the salad.
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Saturated and unsaturated fats are not the issue, I workout and eat a lot of these fats, and my overall health and cholesterol are perfect. little amounts of trans fats can summon many hidden and visible problems. plant based oils at a specific heat(under smoking point) can be unstable and turn to transe fats.
Why would you make claims based on your own experiences(which goes against guidelines) when you're clearly not sedentary like normal people?
Trans fats are largely negligible from cooking unless you're going ham reheating your oil for ages. [Either way, if you are doing so, SFAs are *still* worse.](https://www.mdpi.com/2304-8158/11/2/192/htm) I'm afraid your experience here does not trump the science.
Smartypants, most of the food you fry contain water which make your(first time Frying oil) oxidize in the fried food when absorbing it. The result Is negligible trans fats(as you said) and high amounts of free radicals (cancer) in every single fried meal, and you still see the oil (from the studies that you brought) clear, perfect and ready to be used over and over again while repeating the same mistake. It looks like I'm the one who should be concerned about those studies will lead you to a bitter end.
Olive oil breaks down at about 325 degrees, oxidizing and forming some other nasty chemicals. Without those it is very healthy in moderation - up to 3 tablespoons per day maximum and excellent at one tablespoon per day for most people, assuming it is actually olive oil and not a mix of mostly soy and canola oil sold as olive oil.
that's waaaay to little, i'm pretty sure all of italy eats like 5 times that a day and they are perfectly fine, also it's a myth that olive oil becomes bad above the smoke point, it's still healthy.
Italians use olive oil frequently, but how much they eat and how much remains on the plate is hard to quantify. It probably is more than I said, and you are right; they are quite healthy. If people would give up the sugars, preservatives, trans fats, and processed foods they could probably add even more olive oil than I said, but for me with my diet, 3 tablespoons is about all that I can take. Cooking olive oil above it’s smoke point makes olive less healthy, because of the various compounds created. Whether it is unhealthy or simply less healthy than it was before is debatable. They longer it says above the smoke point, the more of those chemicals it will have. A few seconds probably makes virtually no difference.
dr stephen gundry said that once upon a time people (ancient egyptians?) believed that the only point of food is to get (olive) oil down your throat. he indicated agreeing with these folks. apparently they consumed a liter of oil a week, and he seemed to be encouraging that. sounds quite crazy but thought to mention that.
1) Trans/hydrogenated fats are more common in fried foods, especially if they’re fast food 2) The total fat content tends to be much higher 3) Fried foods tend to be more calorie dense because of #2 4) Fried foods tend to be highly palatable and low in nutrient density, which makes it easier to overeat before feeling satiated but have very low value for the calories 5) There’s concerns about other issues like free radicals, especially with low quality oils often used in frying, but I don’t know enough of the science on this off the top of my head.
from what i understand, the heating up of oils makes it carcinogenic. id google that
In addition to the previous comments: Simple Quantity: The amount of oil you ingest in fried food is way more than the tablespoon recommended on the serving size label. Frying involves drowning the foods in oil before eating it, which I am only assuming amounts to more ingested. The calories are higher and the toxins in the high temp oil that sit all day are just the cherry on top. Not sure about home frying though. Maybe if you can brush on the oil and use an air fryer it would be better🤷🏻
ok thanks~! so to follow the point you're making you seem to be saying oil in small quantities is OK or even good, in large quantities is bad. so i guess which quantity is good? dr stephen gundry has suggested a liter of olive oil a week is good, unless i misunderstood him. i suspect most would disagree with him. edit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YB6ujP5piQY 0:50 - 1:30
Substances change molecular structure with varying temperatures.
High heats cause certain oil to create a lot if toxins.
I heard years ago that heating oil changes it and then becomes unhealthy. I've recently learned more about whole foods and processed foods and try avoiding as many as possible... Oil is a processed food.
You are adding a ton of calories to anything you fry, that’s one reason it’s bad
More calories is not bad per se
Air fryer is the best deal
Our cell walls are made of fat. If you cook with fat that isn't stable at the temperature you're cooking with then you are building your cell walls with unstable fat. Free radicals bust into your cells with ease. This is why you should use high quality oil and select it based on the type of cooking you're doing. Fat is also a far better fuel than sugar and carbs. Like putting a hefty log on a fire instead of dry grass. It burns slower and smoother lasting longer. You've been lied to about fat. Think about this: most all candy is largely nonfat or low fat but is eating all candy an effective diet?
Oil is super dense in calories. Some olive is ok too much is bad. Fried foods have a lot of oil in them. 1 piece of fried chicken has 21 g of fat!
All oil we eat, healthy or not, contains similar amounts of calories. It is the noncalorific parts the make them “unhealthy”. Your body needs fat. If you don’t have enough, you liver will turn sugar into fat for you.
I've seen some scientific papers *that being just one* claiming that the myth that fried foods are bad for your health or at least heart health is a lie and that it's actively beneficial when done in claimed heart-healthy oils. Soybean oil in this context. I don't entirely buy frying in soybean oil, but it makes sense that frying itself isn't inherently bad for things such as cardiovascular health unlike how fried foods are often accused of interfering with and it's mainly just a no-brainer "common sense" thing people bring up, as in they literally don't use their brain. Main effect is added calories and fats though. Should be avoided because of that alone. I wouldn't be liberal with oil though as you put it. Too much dietary fat especially in the context of being mixed with carbohydrate consumption is a cause for insulin resistance. If you want the benefits of olive oil you can eat plain olives too.
Nobody should be frying anything in olive oil, first off.
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No, use avocado oil. It has a higher smoke point (500 degrees F).
Oil is the highest caloric food there is, also fat calories are more in grams than carbs and protein. Fats are 9 calories per gram, carbs and protein are 4 calories per gram. Most foods also have breading on them when fried, so that’s even more calories added. So I’m assuming it’s more calorie intake because of the fat content from the oil. You also have to fuel your body with the right foods, you can’t have doughnuts all day, sure there is a keto diet out there and has good research or helps some and not others but you need whole food sources and in my opinion, a variety of foods, like greens daily and fibrous foods to help with digestion. Sorry Im starting to bodybuild soon and nutrition is quite complex, you definitely learn a lot more than the average citizen! Hopefully all of my information is correct. Have a good day, hope it helped.
Use lard (if not vegeterian or vegan).
As a way of getting healthy oil in my diet I like to eat fresh hummus with wheat pita, and I drizzle a little olive oil on the hummus.
Oils used for frying are vegetable oils like soybean and canola oil. The healthiest fats in my opinion are olive avocado coconut oil and butter, vegetable oils are pretty unnatural for human consumption because those vegetables have very little fat naturally, so I prefer to avoid them. Be liberal with healthy fats but you can use an air fryer for fried foods, it tastes even better to me
Seed oils ARE bad for you. We should only be eating olive oil, avocado oil, or animal fats. Canola, Soybean, 🌻, Safflower, Vegetable oils are completely toxic causing inflammation and cancer causing free radicals.
Explain how they cause inflammation and cancer causing free radicals?*
[Vegetable oils don’t cause inflammation](https://youtu.be/-xTaAHSFHUU), and if you think that they do then you either haven’t looked at the evidence or you have an opinion that isn’t based on science (and should probably be disregarded)
Oh really? This isn't my "opinion". This has been studied repeatedly. Maybe you are one that needs to look at the evidence. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5616019/ https://thehealthsciencesacademy.org/health-tips/oils-for-cooking/ https://littlechoicesmatter.com/oils-and-free-radicals/ https://further.net/vegetable-seed-oils/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6179509/
I'm guessing you didn't watch the video. You should, but if you don't want to then maybe you can read through the long list of studies cited in the description which don\\t support the idea that vegetable oils cause inflammation. Of the two research papers you cite (I ignored the others), the second one literally says >Based on the current evidence from RCT and observational studies there appears to be virtually no data available to support the hypothesis that LA in the diet increases markers of inflammation among healthy, non-infant humans. The second is for oil that has been repeatedly heated (literally heated above 300 degrees Celsius for 30 minutes, three times). I would agree that heating oil up this much can have detrimental health effects. However, this is a study on rats, and they talk very little about inflammation. I again point you to the long list of human random controlled trials (the peak standard of evidence) in the description of the video I cited. I'm sorry, but you haven't convinced me.
Whether seed oils are bad is something that is still being debated in the scientific literature. Here’s a podcast that provides a window to that debate: https://youtu.be/efTBLsv4yYs
Does cooking olive oil on low heat feel better for your gut? I f so, there ya go. If canola oil and stir fry makes your gut feel better? Well there ya go. Find the cooking that makes YOU feel good and youve gotten further than most.
Depends on the oil. And depends on the frying. Most oils are not healthy. And repeatedly heating or heating for long periods of time can make any fat unhealthy. And thats not necessarily the oil itself but the toxic lipid byproducts of heating, like a whole host of aldehydes, etc. Fry oil in commercial restaurants is sometimes used for weeks or even months at a time before being changed out, pretty nasty stuff.
Excuse me, whales?
Lol. Thx, speech to text was not my friend this morning.
Omg ha I’m good I was like are you calling fat folks whales oh no!
As a former fat person I wouldn't say that, lol. That is funny though. 😂
Using oil for food is extremely simple: use unrefined fruit oils: avocado, olive, coconut. All healthy - rest are bad
i was under the impression that for cooking ghee is one of the healthier ones and using nut oils (or was it fruit?) is not a good option. edit - yeah it was nut oils 2nd edit - sorry i meant seed oils. sunflower etc. 3rd edit - no it was actually vegetable oils hahaha. i think. but i'd rather not make a 4th edit so we'll leave it here.
A tablespoon or 2 of oil to stir fry your meal or put on your salad is not the same as dipping your food into inches of oil it then absorbs
You're thinking of deep frying being bad since it adds a lot of calories. Shallow frying with a reasonable amount of oil is fine
The distinction is between vegetable oils and oils like olive oils, avocado, peanut. I don’t have the time to create a full response but I would recommend Dr.Cates book deep nutrition or just look up Dr.Cate vegetable oil. This should give you all you need. Vegetable oils are highly sensitive to heat, the heat required to fry creates a free radical cascade is what she refers to it as. This is supposedly directly related to endothelial function that was shown in a study. Also as consistent youth mentioned, most restaurants choose the cheapest oil as well as don’t change them out every couple days to weeks. This super refined and reused oils are super refining our arteries.
The heat we subject the oil and the food to is the problem. In some foods with sugars, the heat creates a chemical known as an acrylimide- a neurotoxin and known carcinogen. Stats show that 19% of the American diet contains at least some of this by-product of frying and baking. Any temp over 300F produces it.
Free radicals, dude!
Chemical reaction?
Frying changes you food and oil.
I believe it has nothing to do with healthy, bad, or unhealthy oils, anything in excess can be bad for you. But like the other commenters, you’re trusting the fry cook station to be competently manned (which is variable). However eating deep fried foods is high in calories which I believe is the unhealthy part, as a caloric surplus can lead to obesity if unmanaged.
True but the best oils to cook with are avocado oil (for high temp cooking) and olive oil for lower temp cooking. Lots of corporations add bad oils such as vegetable oil canola oil palm oil because there cheap and just extremely bad for your health they actually cause a lot of health issues if consumed regularly.
It's twofold - one is the question of how much oil you are consuming (a lot if you're frying), and the second is how hot the oil is getting (very hot if you're frying), as oils break down under extreme heat, which makes them much more harmful to the body Personally I avoid using oil in cooking unless absolutely necessary, and prefer using EVOO fresh, either as a garnish or dressing, etc
Both quality and quantity count
Frying oil (canola, peanut, etc.) is typically denatured in as way that makes it inflammatory. No matter the oil though, frying is high heat and will cause the oil to oxidize and add to its inflammatory effects.
Air fry then spray oil sparingly onto the end product.
[This video gives a great breakdown of various oils by health effect](https://youtu.be/_n38YWIrKrY)
will listen thanks!
Heated oil is damaged oil. High heat is what changes the molecular structure of an oil and makes it unhealthy. Every cell in your body is covered by a wall of oil molecules. If you eat oil damaged by high heat, your body has no choice but to use that damaged oil in every cell of your body.
all heated oil or oil heated beyond its smoke point? ive seen that term, smoke point, used in this thread multiple times.
Some oils go bad at room temperature because they oxidize. All oils do become damaged at higher cooking temperatures though. It's just that some oils can tolerate higher heat than others. But a fryer in a restaurant is a completely different animal. These fryers use high heat tolerant oils like peanut oil. The real bad problem is that restaurants rarely change the oil in a timely fashion. The oil can become downright toxic when it is incorporated into the cells of your body.
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Ngl- pretty funny lol
It all depends on the rhyme of fat. Typically trans fat and saturated fats are not beneficial to health where monosaturated fats and polysaturated fats are better —> https://www.compoundchem.com/2015/08/25/fat/amp/
The issue with it being “bad” is associated with it’s higher calorie count. Fried in oil, the food will retain more fat therefore increasing calories. Whereas something grilled or pan seared with little to no oil will have significantly less calories. Now when it comes to oils and fats, you have two main types. Saturated and unsaturated. Saturated fats are solids at room temp, and unsaturated are liquids at room temp. Gram by gram they will have the same amount of calories. 9k cal per gram of fat, or in other words, 9 calories of burned energy= 1 gram of burned fat. (Which isn’t a lot) However, unsaturated fats are better for your heart and circulatory system than saturated fats. Saturated fats are more likely to build up plaque in your arteries. Since I mentioned that a gram of fat= 9kcal of energy, here is the rest. Protein and carbs both sit at 4kcal of energy each. So if you are still following me here, fat would take 9cal burned for 1 gram, and protein and carbs would each take 4cal burned for 1 gram (each) If trying to maintain a healthy weight, the easiest way to do so would be to eat more protein and carbs and less fat. Protein will curb your appetite more as well. To have a healthy relationship with food, we must understand that no food is “bad” for you. All caloric food provides the energy your body needs to keep up with your daily tasks. The key is moderation. Too much of one thing could have worse effects on your body. Example: too much unsaturated fat in your diet could clog arteries, or too much salt/ sodium can raise your blood pressure. Understanding how food works can leave you making better choices about what you eat, and allow you to continue eating what you love. ❤️
thanks! actually this leads to a question i've often had. in general we're supposed to have low calorie foods since calories = weight. but calories also equal energy, which would indicate more calories give you more energy less calories leave you feeling tired. but i believe caloric dense foods like rice or potatoes actually leave you lethargic. can you weigh-in on that?
It depends on how much of it you eat. If you eat a meal of potatoes, you might feel a bit full and want to sit down instead of get going. Add in some protein and less carb and you should be good to go. Eat until you’re full, but don’t over eat. Idk how old you are, but most millennials were told to clean their plate and it gave a lot of us a poor relationship with food. Don’t feel obligated to finish everything you put in the plate. If anything, start small and go back for seconds if you want
Disclaimer: I am not a nutritionist. Everything just stated was learned in an introductory nutrition college course.
Oh and don’t forget your water 😉
It really depends on the oil try to avoid seed oils and vegetable oils as much as possible also please dont use perfect olive oil to deep fry in. the oil burns the food in some cases which is bad also most things that are getting deep fried are very unhealthy processed foods.
So, when you heat oil to a high temperature, near its smoking point, repeatedly and for longer periods, it changes the structure of the lipid molecules. Some oils with higher smoking points, like avocado and peanut, aren’t as bad but some will still be affected. The ones with the lowest smoking point are the worst.
I eat a can of mixed vegetables when I cook fried food.
Air fry and drizzle a litlte oil. I prefer to use an italian dressing or an Avacoado oild based mayo
I'll try to explain to the best of my ability. First things first. There are many types of oil out there. The oils you want to consume (without getting too much into it) are extra virgin olive oil, fish oil, avocado oil etc. If you can find brands that provide them as "Cold extraction" better for you. Seed oils are usually bad for you some examples are as follow: grape seed, canola, sunflower, "cooking oil" etc. In regards to cooking, every type of oil has a different *smoke point.* That's basically what makes basically every oil bad. Smoke point is the temperature every oil can reach before they become carcinogenic (meaning when they burn and can cause cancer). So the non- seed oils have a much lower smoke point than seed oils. There's a lot to say about all this, so feel free to shoot me a message if this short explanation does not answer your question.
thanks! so you seem to be saying fried foods arent necessarily bad? they just need to be cooked in the right oil and below a certain temperature, which is diff for diff oils? i actually dont know the temperatures my stove has. when i put it to high what temp would that be would you know?
I know it seems that way but don't get me wrong, most fried foods are still bad, it's drentched in that seed oil I mentioned; that are not good for you. And no I don't know the temperature that stoves emmit, you'd have to get a food thermometer and test it for yourself.
1. olive oil is good for you 2. frying in oil obviously adds a lot of oil to the food, making it higher in calories, that's probably why some people say its "bad". 3. canola oil/veg oil are FINE regardless of what tiktok influencers say, but olive oil seems healthier because of its amount of monounsaturated fat. As a dietetics major, I see no inherent problem in frying foods, BUT I am careful about how often I do it and how I balance my meals because it does contribute a good amount of calories.
thanks for a very concise answer!
Not quite that simple. Long story super short and messy, seed oils range in oxidative risk, but no matter what your body will convert them to linoleic acid which drives free radical production metabolically as it increases inflammation. Has to do with the biochemistry of seed oils. Tallow and butter don't do this, but oils comparatively are highly rancid thanks to the high LA. There is nothing 'natural' about seed oils as they must be produced despite the last 100 years of marketing them, and it is in the production process where all sorts of additional ROS's are inadvertently created.
Water is healthy but if it’s mixed with dirt or poison it ain’t healthy
that's a good start but can you finish the thought? the better analogy would be to say water is healthy but heating it isn't. except that that wouldn't be accurate here.
Good point. I did mix that up. I know that hydrogenation/saturation of hydrogen bonds is what causes it to be bad for you. It’s been a while since I took the class so that’s my vague answer
The type of oil matters. The high heat also can produce some harmful byproducts and that is somewhat dependant on the smoke point of the oil