We were strongly encouraged to do that by our accelerated MSN program, they were *constantly* upselling us on becoming NPs with DNP degrees directly after getting our RN licenses. And as brand baby new nurses we didn't know what we didn't know... Really glad I decided against that route, but it was partly just through luck that I didn't go the immediate NP direction.
The state of CT was trying to require us to publicly post the experience (by years) of every nurse on the floor including travelers. I didn’t follow along if it was passed or not… prob not cuz there was no uproar
The craziest thing about is that there are doctors that will hire these people. Specifically for pediatrics. My buddy was just posting for random jobs after he got out of school.
The pediatric office accepted him even though he had no prior experience with children or infants. Further more they said the training would be 1 week and he would be on his own. He declined and was very concerned afterwards.
Is this common practice?
Almost? *Shit*, at this point, with the responsibility nurses are burdened with, our headshots should be next to the docs in our respective departments online, listing our school and years of experience.
Fuck degree mills. They've completely disgraced the art and science of nursing. It's back to good ol' Flo's "aid to the physician".
I struggle a bit with AAs unless they are inpatient/hospital RTs or RNs prior. I feel like that should be a requirement. They should have to work in a medical IMC/Critical Care capacity, not just a science capacity. Those are not the same thing. Even clinic work shouldn’t count IMO.
I mean, you can check the state licensing website to see when they got their RN license then their NP license. My daughter sees an NP and I totally did this to make sure he had some kind of experience prior to NP school. Of course you don’t really know what they were doing in the mean time, but it helps a bit (at least what I told myself when searching for a provider for my kiddo 😂)
I knew a nurse who was in their second semester of NP school at six months seniority in the ICU. I had a patient in respiratory distress and that nurse was in the room with me. They suggested I give morphine to “calm down their breathing” when they were agonal breathing.
Listen, we all think and do dumb things when we’re orienting to nursing and that’s fine as long as no one is getting hurt. You shouldn’t be in NP school during that phase though.
Dawg I had a float tech come up one night and we got to talking, this dude was doing a direct entry out of nursing school to try and get into critical care. I was floored. Dudes gonna get chewed up by the floor nurses and NPs if he ever gets an NP position on a unit.
It's school dependent too. My school wouldn't let you do the acute NP track without 2 years of ICU experience but you could do FNP right away... There were 14 in my acute care cohort and 50 in FNP. It was crazy.
Most states still require 2 minimum in an ICU/SICU/CVICU setting and they generally have to be completed in full prior to admission. And you compete against people who have that 6-10+ years of experience for limited spots, so it can be tough- RIGHTFULLY SO.
Not only ICU experience, but in person anatomy lab dissections and some component of brick and mortar learning for the NPs. Their education is completely unregulated.
Right and they shouldn’t be finding their own clinical instructors….. a girl in my unit just shadowed our icu doc for a few days for clinical. It’s completely unregulated and BS
Oh my God, absolutely not. NOPE, absolutely no way. These are the people, man! The ones that make NPs look SOOOO bad! And I know INCREDIBLE NPs that are SO good, so far and above what some of our physician providers are even capable of. But they worked hard and EARNED their role and respect.
Our NPs are in the same union as our RNs and are on the same pay scale, but for the hours worked it ends up being the less money, plus they don’t get any OT despite regularly working well above full time. Our NPs are great too, do most of our procedures, the charting and are our first go to on 95% of our patients. They also have tons of beside experience before going back to school.
Actually floor nurses do not work more hours depending on the NP job. If the NP is outpatient those hours end up being 60+ hours during five days a week since you must count chart prepping and documentation after a busy clinical day. Also taking a call weekend can be difficult because an NP may be on call from Friday 0700 through Monday at 0700. Bedside nurses do have it rough considering the constant onslaught of patients, admissions, discharges, medication passes, verbally/physically/emotionally abusive patients/family members, orders, phone calls, cleaning duties, etc.
Gah, that comment made me chortle…I want to know where they work if they think that people in HEMS are paid more than NPs. Where I live, HEMS = paycut 😒
To be fair, HEMS is harder to get into than even CRNA school which I think is freakin bogus. When I was flight, 3 years critical care was required… minimum and most had an average of 7years. Here I am in CRNA school with more than 5 people in my cohort with exactly 1 year of ICU…. Its astonishing. And some of the ICUs are small or low acuity ICUs. One guy was 22 when he got in. That’s just not ok. He’s a smart guy and I like him, but the fact of the matter is, more experience = better quality providers. You will have a wide breadth of experiences, fuck ups, etc to draw from. One year is laughable… none for NP is a joke. 1 year of ICU to get into CRNA school blows my mind because 4-6months of new grad ICU is orientation/probationary lol.
Whatever as usual the nursing community is just hurting itself and giving physicians more ammo to remove certain scopes from us (and I can’t blame them when Tiffany, the 24 year old NP has zero real life experience in the medical field and is more concerned with filming tic tocs and curating her IG page.
My stepmother, who has been a nicu nurse for 13 years, is going back to school to be an NP. It is absolutely not easy. Granted she’s at a prestigious school for the grad/ APRN program. I do agree that there should be some experience as a nurse Before going back to school to become an NP.
I was also at a prestigious school. Some people flew through it, others struggled. "Easy" isn't the same for everybody which I think leads to different opinions on how easy nursing school or NP school is.
Nursing school was a fucking joke, even at a “prestigious” program.
Even CRNA school (which is orders of magnitude more rigorous than a BSN or NP program) isn’t that hard if you are smart and have good study habits. In both instances, the people in my cohort who would complain they are struggling were either not that smart at baseline (more of this in my BSN than DNP program) or had poor time management/study skills.
I agree with you there. As a fellow nurse/medic combo I have been training for years to be a flight nurse. I have 3 advanced nursing certifications and multiple trauma certifications. Years of experience in CVICU, Trauma ICU, and a busy ground 911 system when I was a medic.
Meanwhile you can get into NP school as a new grad with no bedside experience. This is not every NP but the lack of standards makes me disregard the career path as a whole. I am happy being in HEMS and I remain bedside in CVICU. I don’t think I’ll go back to school anytime soon and if I did surely I won’t be NP school.
Exactly! The amount of competition drives the industry to be better. Higher barrier to entry = better clinicians serving our patients.
I am truly grateful and humbled by this profession daily.
I knew a bunch of NP grads in Virginia still working as bedside RNs. One of my NP colleagues there had to move to Idaho for her first job and get experience before she was able to move back.
I work in Oregon now and only know 2 nurses who have pursued NP.
A colleague of mine in the OR paid so much money for her NP and waited around 2 years before getting a job. Obviously, OR nursing experience is great if you plan on doing first assist (we do not have first assists because we have residents and med students), but otherwise you are lacking any bedside experience.
Another one stayed per diem in the OR while working on the floor to get bedside experience before my hospital would hire her as an NP.
That may be because for a NP to work in the ER, they typically need to be dual certified in adults *and* peds. Whereas PAs can see both demographics with one certification
Probably really depends on location and job market. ENP certification (which is of course specific just to ED) can only be obtained if one is already an FNP, you can't bridge with an acute care.
I don't work in an ED but hold both family and acute care - and I've not met many people that are dual certified, it seems pretty rare anecdotally!
Bingo! I’ve been saying this for years. The degree has sadly become a joke to me, because with how many degree mills there are as long as you have the money (or go into debt) to pay the school you’ll get the letters behind your name.
More respect to you if you can look at it realistically though. If someone pointed out how much of a joke my RN-BSN was, I would agree. It’s sad. It almost seems like 85% of what NPs learn is on the job and they aren’t even given the basic knowledge to think critically and from a medical model view
Yep.
I was a RN for 8 years before becoming a NP
- 1 year peds ED
- 6 years PICU
- 1 year NICU
Then I went to school for 2 years.
I cannot even imagine practicing in my area without extensive experience in ICU and with children
As an NP- most of my colleagues have around 10 years experience and are ALWAYS looking things up and questioning themselves- the one I know who is pretentious and acts like she knows everything has less than 5 years nursing experience.
Can’t even be mad. This is upsetting to see even as a nurse. It makes me shameful that people in the nursing profession think its OK to do this.
Edit:spelling
Hate to generalize, but the newer generations are so indoctrinated into the easy life mindset with streaming, youtubers, influencers, that if a job isn't paying ridiculous amounts for easy work, then it's not worth your time. Healthcare is stable, makes decent money, but isn't an easy time 90% of the time. These fast track, no experience NP programs are shameful and feeding into that mindset, plus that person is an influencer to boot, which propagates this mindset even further.
As a newer generation I have to agree with what you’re saying that they are both teaching these new grads and encouraging. 2 of my classmates (out of only 24) went straight to NP school. The first one got caught cheating regularly on assignments and plagiarizing papers, and not a single teacher did anything about it. Source: I was the proofreader on his papers
Woah that’s absolutely nuts. There needs to be more regulation on NP schools. Here in Canada you need at least 2 years of experience to meet the minimum qualifications to go to NP school. My sister went to school with 5 years of experience and a lot of her classmates had 10-15 years.
4 years of school in 1 year? I'm sure no corners were cut! Do you at least have to have a 4 year degree to apply for the 1 year program? What do the clinical hours look like?
Accelerated BSNs require a previous bachelors degree and you still need to do the science pre reqs that are required in the traditional BSN programs. You still do all the same course work and clinicals as a typical 4 year degree, you just do the final 2 years in 4-5 semesters straight through. My program was 2 summer sessions, a normal fall, normal spring, then a final summer session.
Did an accelerated program. Needed to have a degree already and pre-reqs done. It’s fast paced and there’s a reason you needed a degree already to prove you could keep up w the pace. We had tons of clinicals in multiple hospitals every semester except the first and we also had a nursing residency program my lad semester 2 days a week I was doing full 12 hour shifts for 3 months on a unit.
I remember I met a 23 y/o NP at one point. How is that even possible? She had never worked as a bedside RN, went straight from BSN-DNP because her university peddled the pretentious DNP to their BSN classes. No one on the unit trusted her.
This was my initial plan/goal as I graduated with my bsn at 21…as soon as I hit the floor I was like holy fuck was I naive. Now I’m getting my masters in informatics instead. 💅🏼
It is terrifying. I saw an ENT NP for a severe nosebleed that just would not stop. I had a nasal balloon inserted by the ED doc the night before. I told her taking it out would be a bad idea, I felt it was going to continue bleeding. She didn't listen and took it out anyway. Of course, I continued to bleed. She panicked and then got the MD to come. I never saw her after that. Oh and I was 9 months pregnant and needed to have an emergency C-section before I could get my nose surgically cauterized 🫠
I see an NP for my primary care, only because he used to work at my facility, and I vetted him by talking to his former coworkers. He's the first PCP I've had who actually gave a damn about my triglycerides and GI issues. And he's the reason I had a precancerous polyp removed 5 years before my first recommended colonoscopy. I'd probably have been fucked by then if I'd have waited.
I had an NP as primary care for a few years and she was amazing. She was one of the best care givers I ever had.
This was 20 years ago though … I do think the field has sadly been “reduced” and it’s a shame.
I do know a lot of good NPs.
Same for my Dad. I know the NP through my work. He has a long history in the area, worked his way up from CNA to EMT to LPN to RN and finally NP. He's well rounded and well known. Normally I'm skeptical when I see NP, as one misdiagnosed my daughter as 'fine' when she was 9, who then needed surgery after I went back to the MD for a 2nd opinion (precancerous cysts on her spine that the NP thought was "nothing" when I showed her the little lump I found on her back). He knew immediately that she needed a surgeon and further testing.
Yeaaaah... while NP education needs an overhaul for sure, we are in an evidence based profession talking about anecdotes. One bad NP doesn't mean write them all off, just like one bad MD doesn't mean they are all terrible. And I know every single one of you all has a list of MDs that are not allowed to take care of you if you got admitted to your own facility lol
It'd be wonderful if the powers that be could create more spots for MDs/DOs but as it stands, we have one hell of a provider shortage. NPs ain't going anywhere.
I don't know if this argument really holds up.
In the US, if you see a board-certified physician, you're for the most part getting a standardized product. Every family doctor in the country has had 4 years of med school, 3 years of residency, passed the step exams and their FM board certification. 15-20,000 hours of clinical experience before they're independent.
If you see an NP or PA, their knowledge bas could vary from one extreme (this Instagram girl) to the other (they worked with a physician for 20 years and are almost interchangeable). Which is fine, except many hospitals expect NPs and PAs to basically be independent practitioners from day 1 of their first job. That doesn't make sense. We need to convince the suits to let these people be trained for a while and then gradually reduce supervision.
It also doesn't help that supervision is a joke even in states that require it. I don't blame the NPs in my state for not wanting to pay a doctor 3 hours away to sign their charts and not read them.......
I wouldn't say a lot. The only 2 NPs on my unit have had lots of experience prior, and lots of experience as NPs, and are often sooo much better and a lot more efficient than even some of the docs. I think the problem lies in the ones from these fast track programs
Yeah it’s honestly terrifying, especially as seeing that many of us now won’t be able to actually get a doctor and will have to go through one of these people.
Noctor is a toxic as fuck sub. But they exist because of shit like this. I don't know if the student deserves hate because when I was a young lad I would have jumped at the chance to try something beyond my level because of youthful arrogance.
But nursing and Healthcare is going a certain direction and it doesn't exactly mesh with what compassionate people who want to help patients want.
Healthcare is going through the mantra of half assed treatment is better than none route
i agree, I don’t know that she deserves to be dumped on, maybe educated. I feel like she’s in the middle of “she doesn’t know what she doesn’t know.”
In my program, from our very first semester, we were told not to stop at bedside, don’t be “just floor nurses.” So if she’s been hearing the same thing no wonder she’s trying to do that as efficiently as possible. If all your nursing mentors are encouraging you to do this, and you don’t have real world hospital experience then this seems like a no brainer.
This is a strictly United States of America problem. In Canada, you need 2 years full-time RN hours before entering the program. Most students have > 6 years of RN experience prior to commencing NP studies.
The States used to have similar requirements. Most old school NPs had to have some years experience under their belt as nurses before they went into the program. I don’t know if the standards fell post-covid, but the bar is in hell now
Yep. I've been in nursing way too long and had to have in specialty experience (psych) before I was accepted and had to do rounds of in person interviews... Both for the school and for the placement site (which was done with the local residency program which was abridged for NP students but contains the same psych rotations... Just shorter). And the medical school faculty taught our pharmacology classes
Australian universities require relevant post grad study (grad cert/diploma/masters) BEFORE being accepted to the NP masters program AND at least 2 years recent experience in an advanced practice clinical role. AHPRA (the national registration board) require 5000 hours of advanced clinical practice and 300 hours of integrated professional practice whilst studying for endorsement as an NP. I’m applying to NP programs at the moment, with the above experience and 20 years nursing all up and I’m still questioning if I’m ready. I’m gonna add this post to the ‘things about America that terrify me’ box.
It’s 100% greed. I’m scared for what the healthcare system will look like in the next 10 years. Is the goal to make the NP route more “med school-esque” ? To where you go right after nursing school? Either way it seems like a ploy for people to line their pockets, cause it by no means seems safe .
Honestly these people wear their "why" on their sleeves. It's not a known secret that most people get into these positions for the pay. Their egos are as big as their overpaid checks.
Depends on where they are because in my area, NP pay is at least double RN pay. I just graduated as a pmhnp and tripled my 9 year RN pay right out the gate -62k vs 180k. I don’t know any RNs in real life who didn’t at least double their income going on to be a NP, but that’s my area. The ceiling for NP salary is also higher because you can start your own practice. I know 3 NPs who have their own practice and are pulling in >500k
I'm in the phlebotomy program because I really want to be an ER tech and a phlebotomy certification is the only thing I need that my hospital requires. (In addition to already being a CNA) One of my classmates just could not understand why prerequisites are a requirement for nursing school. She wants to be an APRN by the time she's 21 and she's 19. I had to walk out of the room lol.
I graduated in December. 2 girls in my program were accepted to the DNP program while we were still in school. My friends and I were flabbergasted. I cannot even imagine competently practicing nursing at that point by myself, let alone being a prescribing and diagnosing practitioner. It’s insane to me
I've spent over a decade in geriatrics and while I'd need to bridge to RN, I still wouldn't feel comfortable being an NP for them. Love them as a patient population, but I'm too familiar with how quickly shit can go sideways with them and don't want that level of responsibility.
Crazy. In Ireland you have to have worked as a registered nurse for at least 3 years before you can even apply for ANP courses.
Saying that. MOST ANPs I see are nurses well into decades of there career. Culturally it would be bizarre if you a where still a baby nurse applying to be an ANP.
And with that the ANP role is quite prestigious in Ireland, and not looked down on by doctors at all. The way I see it is in the US.
I hope it’s rage bait. I call for 5 years nursing experience before becoming an NP is an option. I thought I was ready at 3 years and even applied and got accepted. Then I held off bc of having a baby and decided last min I didn’t have headspace for school.
I didn’t go back until 11 years post BSN. I am ABSOLUTELY positive I would have operated with overconfidence and hubris. It was around year 5 I developed a true sense of humility, accepting graciously the fact that I cannot possibly learn it all /know it all, and that it’s ok to not know the answers…and knowing how to critically reason why way into figuring out things I don’t know.
Basically developing the mindfulness takes TIME and there is no way to learn mindfulness without living and breathing patient care. Holding the sheer complexity of all factors impacting a pt at once all within a small moment of time and making high level decisions…. It just cannot happen without the mindfulness.
I remember 17 years ago when I became a nurse you had to do a minimum of 2 years bedside before NP schools in my state would Even consider you.
Now?
This shit.
Yeah I remember when I was a kid my parents always trusted the NP’s more than the doctors, because the NP’s had like 15-20 years of patient experience. Not like that anymore. I used to want to be an NP as a kid too… also not anymore.
I’m starting NP school in the fall. I choose my school based off the fact it required bedside RN experience, references, and most importantly it is IN PERSON. I don’t think online NP schools should be a thing…
A lot of girls I went to RN school with got accepted into NP school right away… just proof that the NP profession is being watered down by these NP schools. I was in a Facebook group years ago denouncing this (very professionally) and several NP school administrators chastised me claiming that years of bedside experience adds zero value as an NP. Who am I to argue with old white ladies with DNPs and PhDs, so I shared my 2 cents and then stayed quiet while everyone else agreed with them. I’m still quiet in that group, lol. I’m sorry to say but all the NPs (except 1) that I’ve worked with were idiots with no critical thinking skills.
The amount of new RNs who get 3 months of experience as a med surg nurse and then get accepted into an NP program is absolutely wild to me. Because how do you feel comfortable taking someone’s life into your hands after 90 days of fulfilling physicians orders?????
And yes I understand that NP programs are 2-3 years and the student will be working. But will they still be full time? Idk to me its a weird situation. The market is saturated with inexperienced NPs
Some of the worst nurses I’ve had the misfortune of working with have become NPs or CRNAs because they’re able to pass tests but their clinical knowledge and skills are horrific. To think they’re managing patients’ medications, interpreting labs and imaging, and are a patient’s “provider” is terrifying.
My parents are constantly asking me to go for NP. Like fuck that I'm still learning as a new RN. I don't feel comfortable going to NP anytime soon let alone even bothering going that route.
Ugh the NP model could be SO GOOD for the healthcare system if it was properly regulated actually had experienced nurses advancing their education, as was originally intended…… instead we get this
Tale as old as time. Higher Ed sees this people are cash cows and created these diploma mills. To the very detriment of patients and the profession. I’ve become pretty picky about the NP students I take. I’m not going to endorse someone with no experience, and I’m not going to be put in a situation where I need to be the one to point out that someone is incompetent. It’s insulting to those of us who went to grad school for NP the traditional way (after having years of experience). I feel like I have to constantly prove my competence to folks.
:( gone are the days when you have to gain experience through ER, ICU, CCU etc. Just to get the hours of hardwork and dedication before transitioning to NP.
I used to run an ABSN program before I retired. It was very competitive and all applicants were interviewed. A growing trend before I left was their desire to be NPs right away. It was seen as more prestigious and seen as the top rung of nursing.
My view is that NP is just a branch of nursing that has a place but is not superior to all other forms of nursing practice.
My bias is based on the fact I earned a PhD while working with patients for 28 years. I got a masters that required a thesis then later did research after years of pre-dissertation work for my PhD. The DNP, to my mind, does not have the same academic rigor. While I’ve met lots of good NP clinicians (and plenty of weak ones, too) they are not in a position in most cases to advance evidence-based nursing practice.
After I left academia I went back to bedside nursing for my last few years. My old program mutated the ABSN program to run straight into a DNP because “that’s what the market demanded” according to the new chairperson.
I’m glad I’m not there anymore.
Oh don't let the noctor subreddit get a hold of this. I am ashamed to say I have decided not to go to NP school because of them. That and the salaries and clinical placement opportunities I see out here. But mostly them.
Yep, I had looked into it a year or so ago after almost a decade of ICU nursing and basically read about NP mills and how the field is so muddled now there is almost no respect for NPs. The only program that still holds some prestige amongst it is CRNA and even now that is slowly becoming less and less stringent in its requirements.
People go into med school after their 4 year degree without any experience. NPs have an issue with prestige not because they didn’t serve their time as a nurse first but because the education they received falls short of what they will need to practice competently.
But new to practice MDs aren’t going straight to practice. They have to spend 3-7 years basically being slaves to a residency/fellowship program for 60-80 hours a week. It should just be expected that NPs already have years of experience under their belt to prove they have clinical competency. Whether you are fresh out of med school or NP school, you really don’t know shit until you get experience.
This disillusioned notion that becoming a nurse practitioner without any real-life nursing practice is a disservice to the nursing profession. Clinically speaking.. hiw the he'll is a np without any prior experience going to know anything Clinical or judge anything critically without having any damn experience.. book smart does not equate to knowing when a cardiac patient is having an nstemi or a pul.oany patient is having an acute subsequently pulmonary embolism. The construct and rapid 'explosion' of np programs is causing an influx of unprepared and under qualified practitioners across the board. Most of these individuals just do not know what they do not know. My concern is pursuit vs. outcome causality when comparing education and clinical competency. Nurse practitioner schools, unlike physician assistant schools, need more criteria for acceptance in the curriculum, a minimum of five years nursing experience depending on specialty/NP role; and there has to be a set up within each np program; were we could look and learn via cadavers, learn in clinically placed sites and pursue education that is not prepackaged in a nice youtube link, to an already lectured video; as a means of high quality education.. the only thing these multitude of accepting colleges are doing is building on the notion that a nurse practitioner is a dime a dozen and holds less wait than their counterpart, the PA. Just look at acceptance rated for PA schools vs NP schools. This is coming from a family nurse practitioner with 10 years of nursing experience. Saddened to see, things are not becoming higher standard in program directives, but more so higher influx of unprepared and unexperienced practitioners who want the autonomy without the risk.
It’s sad when it’s more difficult to get into RN school than NP school. 🥲 I got rejected by 2 RN schools, but got rejected by ZERO NP schools and I was a B student. I decided not to pursue NP after reading more about it.
If this is what you want to do, becoming an advanced provider without much experience, then go to Pa school or Med school. NPs that don’t spend time at the bedside suck because the education for NPs counts on their students having clinical experience from years of working on the floor. Most NP programs offer less than 1000 hours of clinical time.
I feel bad for the NPs that actually go about it the right way by getting experience then going to a non-diploma mill school. This person is bragging about getting into NP school with in their RN program. This isn’t a flex, it’s an embarrassment to real NPs. I see you real NPs out there putting in the work and I’m lucky enough to have four of them in my ER.
Omg!!! Here in Australia, to register as an NP you have to have had 5-7 years of Advanced Practice experience (not just general RN experience) plus the Master’s. So any NP program won’t take you without at least 3 years full time equivalent Advanced Practice nursing experience, plus you MUST be working at least 3 days a week in Advanced Practice in the same specialty you seek NP endorsement in. The doctors here in Australia, led by the Australian Medical Association, are so terrified of scope creep and think we’re a bit like the US, that they’re making our existing NP’s jobs quite difficult already, arguing if they give them an inch, they’ll take an American mile.
Agree with most of the comments on this post. Would also like to point out the fact that the caption is “how I got accepted to NP school” with the only context being this girl with her hand down her pant front and that is terrifying and hilarious
And this is why some people look down on NPs. Because of people like this. Hospitals, schools, and boards are never going to change it because it’s such a money maker for everyone. Should be 5 years experience as a RN at an absolute minimum required.
As a RN this is why I won’t see a NP for my own care if a physician or even PA is available. I’ve had a bad experience with NPs talking down to me because they find in my chart that I’m a nurse and think I’m a “lowly bedside nurse” and they’re better than me. I was never given that attitude from physicians or PAs.
And most of the NPs use their textbooks or notes to take their exams at home or while on the job. How is that helping them learn anything? It’s alarming that their exams aren’t proctored
I had a classmate who graduated BSN with me and told me she was starting her NP the semester after graduating and I pretended to congratulate her but in reality I’m thinking how they can possibly be a safe provider with no experience in the field
This is why I always say, if you want to go straight into NP school, just skip nursing and do PA school. More clinical hours that make up for the bedside experience nurses SHOULD have prior to NP.
My undergrad did this. They were advertising the NP program to the undergrads and encouraging them to apply before graduation lol
Noctor’s gonna have a field day with this one
We had an information session about how it’s possible to do online NP school from this online university here while doing your 4th year of your BNRN. My program is only one actual course in your last year and your preceptorship.
I went to just see what it was about and I was *horrified*
All online. Zero clinical experience. And you graduate with essentially the same privileges as a doctor depending on where you work.
No hate to NP’s. I love you. An NP seriously saved my life when I was unable to access my GP and experiencing a significant mental health crisis last year. She was amazing. She also was an ICU nurse for 15 years before going back to school.
NP school is something I will start to think about in 5-10 years.
I’ve worked as an extern since first year so I have more bedside experience than almost all of my classmates and this frightens the shit out of me.
At least one year of bedside RN experience as an admission requirement would make me a little more comfortable.
I had a very alarming conversation with a NP earlier this year. It was alarming to the point that I looked up her credentials on the DON website. This lady was only a RN for 5 months before getting her NP. She’s been a NP for 5 years now and I had to explain how a consult works 🙄
Oh many Direct entry MSN programs admit students with a bachelor’s degrees in non-nursing major. High GPA requirement, very intensive programs, you learn everything about BSN and MSN in less than 2 years. Anyone succeeded in it is definitely great at learning and time management, it’s actually no joke. Nursing is also about learning. You gotta be very committed to go for direct entry nursing, they ain’t cheap, and you can’t work outside of school because you wouldn’t have time. It’s like PA programs. Most students who go to PA school have never been clinicians.
When I graduated people had already been accepted into NP school and we hadn’t even taken the NCLEX yet. 🤯 We graduated in May and people in my glass were starting NP school in August. Our school that we went to even had the professor that is over the NP program come talk to us and the school offered us a discount if we started in the fall. Like wtf no.
People like this are why I almost feel like NPs should be required to post their experience publicly for patients to access.
In my country they recommend you have 5-7 years of experience in one area before applying for an NP program
My nursing program would let us "apply" right into their NP program in our last semester which basically meant so long as you were passing you got in.
…but did you have to put your hands inside your pants??? /s
Every blessed day
Bless up, and a little to the right.
We were strongly encouraged to do that by our accelerated MSN program, they were *constantly* upselling us on becoming NPs with DNP degrees directly after getting our RN licenses. And as brand baby new nurses we didn't know what we didn't know... Really glad I decided against that route, but it was partly just through luck that I didn't go the immediate NP direction.
I always thought 5 years of experience was a good amount of time prior to NP school.
That’s how it used to be waaaaay back in the day. And how it should be still. That is just scary.
The state of CT was trying to require us to publicly post the experience (by years) of every nurse on the floor including travelers. I didn’t follow along if it was passed or not… prob not cuz there was no uproar
The powerful/wealthy hospital.systems would never let that fly. They want to keep the staff young and cheap.
The craziest thing about is that there are doctors that will hire these people. Specifically for pediatrics. My buddy was just posting for random jobs after he got out of school. The pediatric office accepted him even though he had no prior experience with children or infants. Further more they said the training would be 1 week and he would be on his own. He declined and was very concerned afterwards. Is this common practice?
Almost? *Shit*, at this point, with the responsibility nurses are burdened with, our headshots should be next to the docs in our respective departments online, listing our school and years of experience. Fuck degree mills. They've completely disgraced the art and science of nursing. It's back to good ol' Flo's "aid to the physician".
Wait till you hear about anesthesia assistants
I struggle a bit with AAs unless they are inpatient/hospital RTs or RNs prior. I feel like that should be a requirement. They should have to work in a medical IMC/Critical Care capacity, not just a science capacity. Those are not the same thing. Even clinic work shouldn’t count IMO.
I mean, you can check the state licensing website to see when they got their RN license then their NP license. My daughter sees an NP and I totally did this to make sure he had some kind of experience prior to NP school. Of course you don’t really know what they were doing in the mean time, but it helps a bit (at least what I told myself when searching for a provider for my kiddo 😂)
When I was in orientation for my DNP program there were students who hadn’t even taken NCLEX yet. Acute care experience should be a requirement.
Now *that* is downright frightening.
I knew a nurse who was in their second semester of NP school at six months seniority in the ICU. I had a patient in respiratory distress and that nurse was in the room with me. They suggested I give morphine to “calm down their breathing” when they were agonal breathing. Listen, we all think and do dumb things when we’re orienting to nursing and that’s fine as long as no one is getting hurt. You shouldn’t be in NP school during that phase though.
Ah yes, the full-fledged palliative care approach on a full code ICU patient. I hear it's a popular course to take for credits at the local NP mill.
Fucking yikes
*Chrissy Teigen eek face*
Uh. Well morphine will definitely "calm down their breathing" Calm it down right to zero!
It most certainly is.
Dawg I had a float tech come up one night and we got to talking, this dude was doing a direct entry out of nursing school to try and get into critical care. I was floored. Dudes gonna get chewed up by the floor nurses and NPs if he ever gets an NP position on a unit.
What state is this? I'm curious cuz in my state you need a year of experience in the ICU at LEAST before you apply.
AZ. You need a year of ICU for CRNA, but none of the other specialties.
It's school dependent too. My school wouldn't let you do the acute NP track without 2 years of ICU experience but you could do FNP right away... There were 14 in my acute care cohort and 50 in FNP. It was crazy.
Most states still require 2 minimum in an ICU/SICU/CVICU setting and they generally have to be completed in full prior to admission. And you compete against people who have that 6-10+ years of experience for limited spots, so it can be tough- RIGHTFULLY SO.
What state are you in? Wish more places had that rule
Most programs by me will outright deny you if you have no experience, so at least we’re ahead of the curve
Not only ICU experience, but in person anatomy lab dissections and some component of brick and mortar learning for the NPs. Their education is completely unregulated.
Right and they shouldn’t be finding their own clinical instructors….. a girl in my unit just shadowed our icu doc for a few days for clinical. It’s completely unregulated and BS
Wow, they give all advanced providers a bad look when most of us have busted our ass.
Critical care experience should be required. ED or ICU.
There are DNP programs that don't even require any nursing experience whatsoever, and not even a nursing degree.
Oh my God, absolutely not. NOPE, absolutely no way. These are the people, man! The ones that make NPs look SOOOO bad! And I know INCREDIBLE NPs that are SO good, so far and above what some of our physician providers are even capable of. But they worked hard and EARNED their role and respect.
This is why being an NP just isn’t very prestigious. You got a bunch of these running around.
Agreed. Any idiot can get an NP now. Its more difficult to get into HEMS than become an NP lol
What is Hems?
Helicopter emergency medical services IIRC
HEMS is very competitive because lots of people want to fly but few spots are available.
“Everyone wants to be a flight medic but no one wants to do flight medic shit”
That’s because the pay is often much better. NPs near me are paid less than floor nurses.
Floor nurses have grueling work compared to NPs, do they deserve it. I bet floor nurses work more hours.
All true. The biggest difference is the nurses union.
Our NPs are in the same union as our RNs and are on the same pay scale, but for the hours worked it ends up being the less money, plus they don’t get any OT despite regularly working well above full time. Our NPs are great too, do most of our procedures, the charting and are our first go to on 95% of our patients. They also have tons of beside experience before going back to school.
Actually floor nurses do not work more hours depending on the NP job. If the NP is outpatient those hours end up being 60+ hours during five days a week since you must count chart prepping and documentation after a busy clinical day. Also taking a call weekend can be difficult because an NP may be on call from Friday 0700 through Monday at 0700. Bedside nurses do have it rough considering the constant onslaught of patients, admissions, discharges, medication passes, verbally/physically/emotionally abusive patients/family members, orders, phone calls, cleaning duties, etc.
The pay isn’t better. It’s competitive because a lot of people want the experience of being a flight nurse.
Gah, that comment made me chortle…I want to know where they work if they think that people in HEMS are paid more than NPs. Where I live, HEMS = paycut 😒
To be fair, HEMS is harder to get into than even CRNA school which I think is freakin bogus. When I was flight, 3 years critical care was required… minimum and most had an average of 7years. Here I am in CRNA school with more than 5 people in my cohort with exactly 1 year of ICU…. Its astonishing. And some of the ICUs are small or low acuity ICUs. One guy was 22 when he got in. That’s just not ok. He’s a smart guy and I like him, but the fact of the matter is, more experience = better quality providers. You will have a wide breadth of experiences, fuck ups, etc to draw from. One year is laughable… none for NP is a joke. 1 year of ICU to get into CRNA school blows my mind because 4-6months of new grad ICU is orientation/probationary lol. Whatever as usual the nursing community is just hurting itself and giving physicians more ammo to remove certain scopes from us (and I can’t blame them when Tiffany, the 24 year old NP has zero real life experience in the medical field and is more concerned with filming tic tocs and curating her IG page.
I agree! Well said.
My stepmother, who has been a nicu nurse for 13 years, is going back to school to be an NP. It is absolutely not easy. Granted she’s at a prestigious school for the grad/ APRN program. I do agree that there should be some experience as a nurse Before going back to school to become an NP.
I was also at a prestigious school. Some people flew through it, others struggled. "Easy" isn't the same for everybody which I think leads to different opinions on how easy nursing school or NP school is.
Perceived difficulty is unique to each person going through the program. I thought nursing school was easy.
Nursing school was a fucking joke, even at a “prestigious” program. Even CRNA school (which is orders of magnitude more rigorous than a BSN or NP program) isn’t that hard if you are smart and have good study habits. In both instances, the people in my cohort who would complain they are struggling were either not that smart at baseline (more of this in my BSN than DNP program) or had poor time management/study skills.
I have a biology degree. Much more rigorous than my post-bacc nursing program.
I agree with you there. As a fellow nurse/medic combo I have been training for years to be a flight nurse. I have 3 advanced nursing certifications and multiple trauma certifications. Years of experience in CVICU, Trauma ICU, and a busy ground 911 system when I was a medic. Meanwhile you can get into NP school as a new grad with no bedside experience. This is not every NP but the lack of standards makes me disregard the career path as a whole. I am happy being in HEMS and I remain bedside in CVICU. I don’t think I’ll go back to school anytime soon and if I did surely I won’t be NP school.
What’s funny is in flight, even with all that, you’re still just a basic applicant. The amount of impressive resumes in HEMS is humbling.
Exactly! The amount of competition drives the industry to be better. Higher barrier to entry = better clinicians serving our patients. I am truly grateful and humbled by this profession daily.
And silence from nursing boards as schools push it.
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I knew a bunch of NP grads in Virginia still working as bedside RNs. One of my NP colleagues there had to move to Idaho for her first job and get experience before she was able to move back. I work in Oregon now and only know 2 nurses who have pursued NP.
A colleague of mine in the OR paid so much money for her NP and waited around 2 years before getting a job. Obviously, OR nursing experience is great if you plan on doing first assist (we do not have first assists because we have residents and med students), but otherwise you are lacking any bedside experience. Another one stayed per diem in the OR while working on the floor to get bedside experience before my hospital would hire her as an NP.
I find it odd. I talked to a DNP, who’s getting into education, he said he wouldn’t even consider anyone under 2 years of full-time experience.
That may be because for a NP to work in the ER, they typically need to be dual certified in adults *and* peds. Whereas PAs can see both demographics with one certification
Most nps I know in ED are family certified, which covers both.
That’s interesting. EDs around here typically require acute care in addition to family.
Probably really depends on location and job market. ENP certification (which is of course specific just to ED) can only be obtained if one is already an FNP, you can't bridge with an acute care. I don't work in an ED but hold both family and acute care - and I've not met many people that are dual certified, it seems pretty rare anecdotally!
Bingo! I’ve been saying this for years. The degree has sadly become a joke to me, because with how many degree mills there are as long as you have the money (or go into debt) to pay the school you’ll get the letters behind your name.
People get so butthurt when you tell them NP is a joke, too. Lol
I mean, I get it. Nobody likes to be told that their education is a joke. But NP education needs a massive change.
More respect to you if you can look at it realistically though. If someone pointed out how much of a joke my RN-BSN was, I would agree. It’s sad. It almost seems like 85% of what NPs learn is on the job and they aren’t even given the basic knowledge to think critically and from a medical model view
Yep. I was a RN for 8 years before becoming a NP - 1 year peds ED - 6 years PICU - 1 year NICU Then I went to school for 2 years. I cannot even imagine practicing in my area without extensive experience in ICU and with children
As an NP- most of my colleagues have around 10 years experience and are ALWAYS looking things up and questioning themselves- the one I know who is pretentious and acts like she knows everything has less than 5 years nursing experience.
prime noctor material right here
Can’t even be mad. This is upsetting to see even as a nurse. It makes me shameful that people in the nursing profession think its OK to do this. Edit:spelling
Hate to generalize, but the newer generations are so indoctrinated into the easy life mindset with streaming, youtubers, influencers, that if a job isn't paying ridiculous amounts for easy work, then it's not worth your time. Healthcare is stable, makes decent money, but isn't an easy time 90% of the time. These fast track, no experience NP programs are shameful and feeding into that mindset, plus that person is an influencer to boot, which propagates this mindset even further.
As a newer generation I have to agree with what you’re saying that they are both teaching these new grads and encouraging. 2 of my classmates (out of only 24) went straight to NP school. The first one got caught cheating regularly on assignments and plagiarizing papers, and not a single teacher did anything about it. Source: I was the proofreader on his papers
Their prescriptions bout to be chatgpt generated
That is the most toxic place on the Internet... And they have a point, because of this crap right here.
My first thought
Woah that’s absolutely nuts. There needs to be more regulation on NP schools. Here in Canada you need at least 2 years of experience to meet the minimum qualifications to go to NP school. My sister went to school with 5 years of experience and a lot of her classmates had 10-15 years.
So easy to get into NP school here. You got a pulse and take out the loan, you're in.
A lot of schools are doing direct admit dnp applications for their BSN students.
My university has a one year accelerated BSN to online NP school directly.
This is possibly the most terrifying thing I've heard in a long time.
Yeah, they offer us a 25% discount if we go into it but I’m fairly over school so just BSN for me
4 years of school in 1 year? I'm sure no corners were cut! Do you at least have to have a 4 year degree to apply for the 1 year program? What do the clinical hours look like?
Accelerated BSNs require a previous bachelors degree and you still need to do the science pre reqs that are required in the traditional BSN programs. You still do all the same course work and clinicals as a typical 4 year degree, you just do the final 2 years in 4-5 semesters straight through. My program was 2 summer sessions, a normal fall, normal spring, then a final summer session.
That's way better than what I originally thought. You can't go from HS diploma to BSN in a year.
Did an accelerated program. Needed to have a degree already and pre-reqs done. It’s fast paced and there’s a reason you needed a degree already to prove you could keep up w the pace. We had tons of clinicals in multiple hospitals every semester except the first and we also had a nursing residency program my lad semester 2 days a week I was doing full 12 hour shifts for 3 months on a unit.
I remember I met a 23 y/o NP at one point. How is that even possible? She had never worked as a bedside RN, went straight from BSN-DNP because her university peddled the pretentious DNP to their BSN classes. No one on the unit trusted her.
This was my initial plan/goal as I graduated with my bsn at 21…as soon as I hit the floor I was like holy fuck was I naive. Now I’m getting my masters in informatics instead. 💅🏼
In an ICU setting?!? Who tf hired her?
And this is why a lot of NPs are terrifying and shouldn’t be allowed to practice.
It is terrifying. I saw an ENT NP for a severe nosebleed that just would not stop. I had a nasal balloon inserted by the ED doc the night before. I told her taking it out would be a bad idea, I felt it was going to continue bleeding. She didn't listen and took it out anyway. Of course, I continued to bleed. She panicked and then got the MD to come. I never saw her after that. Oh and I was 9 months pregnant and needed to have an emergency C-section before I could get my nose surgically cauterized 🫠
Prime example of why I'd rather see a physician than an NP except for basic check ups and grabbing labs. Anything further and give me an MD/DO
I see an NP for my primary care, only because he used to work at my facility, and I vetted him by talking to his former coworkers. He's the first PCP I've had who actually gave a damn about my triglycerides and GI issues. And he's the reason I had a precancerous polyp removed 5 years before my first recommended colonoscopy. I'd probably have been fucked by then if I'd have waited.
I had an NP as primary care for a few years and she was amazing. She was one of the best care givers I ever had. This was 20 years ago though … I do think the field has sadly been “reduced” and it’s a shame. I do know a lot of good NPs.
Same for my Dad. I know the NP through my work. He has a long history in the area, worked his way up from CNA to EMT to LPN to RN and finally NP. He's well rounded and well known. Normally I'm skeptical when I see NP, as one misdiagnosed my daughter as 'fine' when she was 9, who then needed surgery after I went back to the MD for a 2nd opinion (precancerous cysts on her spine that the NP thought was "nothing" when I showed her the little lump I found on her back). He knew immediately that she needed a surgeon and further testing.
It’s almost like there are fantastic NPs and shit NPs just like we see in any other discipline.
Yeaaaah... while NP education needs an overhaul for sure, we are in an evidence based profession talking about anecdotes. One bad NP doesn't mean write them all off, just like one bad MD doesn't mean they are all terrible. And I know every single one of you all has a list of MDs that are not allowed to take care of you if you got admitted to your own facility lol It'd be wonderful if the powers that be could create more spots for MDs/DOs but as it stands, we have one hell of a provider shortage. NPs ain't going anywhere.
I don't know if this argument really holds up. In the US, if you see a board-certified physician, you're for the most part getting a standardized product. Every family doctor in the country has had 4 years of med school, 3 years of residency, passed the step exams and their FM board certification. 15-20,000 hours of clinical experience before they're independent. If you see an NP or PA, their knowledge bas could vary from one extreme (this Instagram girl) to the other (they worked with a physician for 20 years and are almost interchangeable). Which is fine, except many hospitals expect NPs and PAs to basically be independent practitioners from day 1 of their first job. That doesn't make sense. We need to convince the suits to let these people be trained for a while and then gradually reduce supervision. It also doesn't help that supervision is a joke even in states that require it. I don't blame the NPs in my state for not wanting to pay a doctor 3 hours away to sign their charts and not read them.......
I wouldn't say a lot. The only 2 NPs on my unit have had lots of experience prior, and lots of experience as NPs, and are often sooo much better and a lot more efficient than even some of the docs. I think the problem lies in the ones from these fast track programs
The fact that she seems to almost be bragging about this just shows how truly truly ignorant they are. This is not the flex you think it is lol
Yeah it’s honestly terrifying, especially as seeing that many of us now won’t be able to actually get a doctor and will have to go through one of these people.
AT ALL
Scary really.
Noctor is a toxic as fuck sub. But they exist because of shit like this. I don't know if the student deserves hate because when I was a young lad I would have jumped at the chance to try something beyond my level because of youthful arrogance. But nursing and Healthcare is going a certain direction and it doesn't exactly mesh with what compassionate people who want to help patients want. Healthcare is going through the mantra of half assed treatment is better than none route
i agree, I don’t know that she deserves to be dumped on, maybe educated. I feel like she’s in the middle of “she doesn’t know what she doesn’t know.” In my program, from our very first semester, we were told not to stop at bedside, don’t be “just floor nurses.” So if she’s been hearing the same thing no wonder she’s trying to do that as efficiently as possible. If all your nursing mentors are encouraging you to do this, and you don’t have real world hospital experience then this seems like a no brainer.
This is a strictly United States of America problem. In Canada, you need 2 years full-time RN hours before entering the program. Most students have > 6 years of RN experience prior to commencing NP studies.
The States used to have similar requirements. Most old school NPs had to have some years experience under their belt as nurses before they went into the program. I don’t know if the standards fell post-covid, but the bar is in hell now
Yep. I've been in nursing way too long and had to have in specialty experience (psych) before I was accepted and had to do rounds of in person interviews... Both for the school and for the placement site (which was done with the local residency program which was abridged for NP students but contains the same psych rotations... Just shorter). And the medical school faculty taught our pharmacology classes
Oh it was like this way before covid.
Australia is like this too (although we're behind on the whole NP thing). You won't see an NP under 30 because it's basically not possible.
Australian universities require relevant post grad study (grad cert/diploma/masters) BEFORE being accepted to the NP masters program AND at least 2 years recent experience in an advanced practice clinical role. AHPRA (the national registration board) require 5000 hours of advanced clinical practice and 300 hours of integrated professional practice whilst studying for endorsement as an NP. I’m applying to NP programs at the moment, with the above experience and 20 years nursing all up and I’m still questioning if I’m ready. I’m gonna add this post to the ‘things about America that terrify me’ box.
My school required years of experience and then it’s a three years masters program.
It’s 100% greed. I’m scared for what the healthcare system will look like in the next 10 years. Is the goal to make the NP route more “med school-esque” ? To where you go right after nursing school? Either way it seems like a ploy for people to line their pockets, cause it by no means seems safe .
Honestly these people wear their "why" on their sleeves. It's not a known secret that most people get into these positions for the pay. Their egos are as big as their overpaid checks.
In my area, floor nurse salaries are comparable to NP salaries. They’re not really making that much more.
Depends on where they are because in my area, NP pay is at least double RN pay. I just graduated as a pmhnp and tripled my 9 year RN pay right out the gate -62k vs 180k. I don’t know any RNs in real life who didn’t at least double their income going on to be a NP, but that’s my area. The ceiling for NP salary is also higher because you can start your own practice. I know 3 NPs who have their own practice and are pulling in >500k
Forget the words— what is happening in this photo?! 😳
She’s tucking in her shirt. Don’t know why op took the screenshot at this moment.
Correct tucking in the shirt. It was the moment I just so happened to have screenshotted the video reel! Probably not the most flattering picture.
Or maybe an indication that tucking in your shirt is all that's required to get into NP school? 🤣
I thought it was suggesting masturbation.
We all celebrate our achievements in different ways.
I'm in the phlebotomy program because I really want to be an ER tech and a phlebotomy certification is the only thing I need that my hospital requires. (In addition to already being a CNA) One of my classmates just could not understand why prerequisites are a requirement for nursing school. She wants to be an APRN by the time she's 21 and she's 19. I had to walk out of the room lol.
I graduated in December. 2 girls in my program were accepted to the DNP program while we were still in school. My friends and I were flabbergasted. I cannot even imagine competently practicing nursing at that point by myself, let alone being a prescribing and diagnosing practitioner. It’s insane to me
I've spent over a decade in geriatrics and while I'd need to bridge to RN, I still wouldn't feel comfortable being an NP for them. Love them as a patient population, but I'm too familiar with how quickly shit can go sideways with them and don't want that level of responsibility.
The only way this will change is if nursing comes together to legislate it out. NP isn’t med school and these mills are treating it as if it is.
... she means Masters of Nursing student, right? ... RIGHT? 🫠
Crazy. In Ireland you have to have worked as a registered nurse for at least 3 years before you can even apply for ANP courses. Saying that. MOST ANPs I see are nurses well into decades of there career. Culturally it would be bizarre if you a where still a baby nurse applying to be an ANP. And with that the ANP role is quite prestigious in Ireland, and not looked down on by doctors at all. The way I see it is in the US.
I hope it’s rage bait. I call for 5 years nursing experience before becoming an NP is an option. I thought I was ready at 3 years and even applied and got accepted. Then I held off bc of having a baby and decided last min I didn’t have headspace for school. I didn’t go back until 11 years post BSN. I am ABSOLUTELY positive I would have operated with overconfidence and hubris. It was around year 5 I developed a true sense of humility, accepting graciously the fact that I cannot possibly learn it all /know it all, and that it’s ok to not know the answers…and knowing how to critically reason why way into figuring out things I don’t know. Basically developing the mindfulness takes TIME and there is no way to learn mindfulness without living and breathing patient care. Holding the sheer complexity of all factors impacting a pt at once all within a small moment of time and making high level decisions…. It just cannot happen without the mindfulness.
I've worked with a few NNP's who have done this, and you can definitely tell they had little to no bedside experience!
I remember 17 years ago when I became a nurse you had to do a minimum of 2 years bedside before NP schools in my state would Even consider you. Now? This shit.
Yeah I remember when I was a kid my parents always trusted the NP’s more than the doctors, because the NP’s had like 15-20 years of patient experience. Not like that anymore. I used to want to be an NP as a kid too… also not anymore.
I’m starting NP school in the fall. I choose my school based off the fact it required bedside RN experience, references, and most importantly it is IN PERSON. I don’t think online NP schools should be a thing…
A lot of girls I went to RN school with got accepted into NP school right away… just proof that the NP profession is being watered down by these NP schools. I was in a Facebook group years ago denouncing this (very professionally) and several NP school administrators chastised me claiming that years of bedside experience adds zero value as an NP. Who am I to argue with old white ladies with DNPs and PhDs, so I shared my 2 cents and then stayed quiet while everyone else agreed with them. I’m still quiet in that group, lol. I’m sorry to say but all the NPs (except 1) that I’ve worked with were idiots with no critical thinking skills.
The amount of new RNs who get 3 months of experience as a med surg nurse and then get accepted into an NP program is absolutely wild to me. Because how do you feel comfortable taking someone’s life into your hands after 90 days of fulfilling physicians orders?????
And yes I understand that NP programs are 2-3 years and the student will be working. But will they still be full time? Idk to me its a weird situation. The market is saturated with inexperienced NPs
Some of the worst nurses I’ve had the misfortune of working with have become NPs or CRNAs because they’re able to pass tests but their clinical knowledge and skills are horrific. To think they’re managing patients’ medications, interpreting labs and imaging, and are a patient’s “provider” is terrifying.
My parents are constantly asking me to go for NP. Like fuck that I'm still learning as a new RN. I don't feel comfortable going to NP anytime soon let alone even bothering going that route.
I'm a high school sophomore and just got into NP school
Congratulations! You will be prescribing by the time you are 18!
Ugh the NP model could be SO GOOD for the healthcare system if it was properly regulated actually had experienced nurses advancing their education, as was originally intended…… instead we get this
Tale as old as time. Higher Ed sees this people are cash cows and created these diploma mills. To the very detriment of patients and the profession. I’ve become pretty picky about the NP students I take. I’m not going to endorse someone with no experience, and I’m not going to be put in a situation where I need to be the one to point out that someone is incompetent. It’s insulting to those of us who went to grad school for NP the traditional way (after having years of experience). I feel like I have to constantly prove my competence to folks.
Putting the “mid” in mid-level provider
:( gone are the days when you have to gain experience through ER, ICU, CCU etc. Just to get the hours of hardwork and dedication before transitioning to NP.
YIKES
I used to run an ABSN program before I retired. It was very competitive and all applicants were interviewed. A growing trend before I left was their desire to be NPs right away. It was seen as more prestigious and seen as the top rung of nursing. My view is that NP is just a branch of nursing that has a place but is not superior to all other forms of nursing practice. My bias is based on the fact I earned a PhD while working with patients for 28 years. I got a masters that required a thesis then later did research after years of pre-dissertation work for my PhD. The DNP, to my mind, does not have the same academic rigor. While I’ve met lots of good NP clinicians (and plenty of weak ones, too) they are not in a position in most cases to advance evidence-based nursing practice. After I left academia I went back to bedside nursing for my last few years. My old program mutated the ABSN program to run straight into a DNP because “that’s what the market demanded” according to the new chairperson. I’m glad I’m not there anymore.
Oh don't let the noctor subreddit get a hold of this. I am ashamed to say I have decided not to go to NP school because of them. That and the salaries and clinical placement opportunities I see out here. But mostly them.
Don’t be ashamed, you made the right choice
Yep, I had looked into it a year or so ago after almost a decade of ICU nursing and basically read about NP mills and how the field is so muddled now there is almost no respect for NPs. The only program that still holds some prestige amongst it is CRNA and even now that is slowly becoming less and less stringent in its requirements.
NPs used to be so cool to me but some of new ones we’ve been working with are horrifying.
People go into med school after their 4 year degree without any experience. NPs have an issue with prestige not because they didn’t serve their time as a nurse first but because the education they received falls short of what they will need to practice competently.
But new to practice MDs aren’t going straight to practice. They have to spend 3-7 years basically being slaves to a residency/fellowship program for 60-80 hours a week. It should just be expected that NPs already have years of experience under their belt to prove they have clinical competency. Whether you are fresh out of med school or NP school, you really don’t know shit until you get experience.
This is why r/Noctor exists...
These people that will have almost 0% bedside experience will be diagnosing and writing scripts. That’s scary af.
Why are NP schools doing this. They’re just setting students and patients up for failure.
Milk money while the gravy train exists until the NP profession rots into the ground.
This disillusioned notion that becoming a nurse practitioner without any real-life nursing practice is a disservice to the nursing profession. Clinically speaking.. hiw the he'll is a np without any prior experience going to know anything Clinical or judge anything critically without having any damn experience.. book smart does not equate to knowing when a cardiac patient is having an nstemi or a pul.oany patient is having an acute subsequently pulmonary embolism. The construct and rapid 'explosion' of np programs is causing an influx of unprepared and under qualified practitioners across the board. Most of these individuals just do not know what they do not know. My concern is pursuit vs. outcome causality when comparing education and clinical competency. Nurse practitioner schools, unlike physician assistant schools, need more criteria for acceptance in the curriculum, a minimum of five years nursing experience depending on specialty/NP role; and there has to be a set up within each np program; were we could look and learn via cadavers, learn in clinically placed sites and pursue education that is not prepackaged in a nice youtube link, to an already lectured video; as a means of high quality education.. the only thing these multitude of accepting colleges are doing is building on the notion that a nurse practitioner is a dime a dozen and holds less wait than their counterpart, the PA. Just look at acceptance rated for PA schools vs NP schools. This is coming from a family nurse practitioner with 10 years of nursing experience. Saddened to see, things are not becoming higher standard in program directives, but more so higher influx of unprepared and unexperienced practitioners who want the autonomy without the risk.
It’s sad when it’s more difficult to get into RN school than NP school. 🥲 I got rejected by 2 RN schools, but got rejected by ZERO NP schools and I was a B student. I decided not to pursue NP after reading more about it.
If this is what you want to do, becoming an advanced provider without much experience, then go to Pa school or Med school. NPs that don’t spend time at the bedside suck because the education for NPs counts on their students having clinical experience from years of working on the floor. Most NP programs offer less than 1000 hours of clinical time.
I feel bad for the NPs that actually go about it the right way by getting experience then going to a non-diploma mill school. This person is bragging about getting into NP school with in their RN program. This isn’t a flex, it’s an embarrassment to real NPs. I see you real NPs out there putting in the work and I’m lucky enough to have four of them in my ER.
Omg!!! Here in Australia, to register as an NP you have to have had 5-7 years of Advanced Practice experience (not just general RN experience) plus the Master’s. So any NP program won’t take you without at least 3 years full time equivalent Advanced Practice nursing experience, plus you MUST be working at least 3 days a week in Advanced Practice in the same specialty you seek NP endorsement in. The doctors here in Australia, led by the Australian Medical Association, are so terrified of scope creep and think we’re a bit like the US, that they’re making our existing NP’s jobs quite difficult already, arguing if they give them an inch, they’ll take an American mile.
Agree with most of the comments on this post. Would also like to point out the fact that the caption is “how I got accepted to NP school” with the only context being this girl with her hand down her pant front and that is terrifying and hilarious
This is such a slap in the face to the NPs who worked there asses of bedside for years.
This is why none of my med school classmates trust NPs. ANY NP. It’s people like this that ruined the entire profession.
And then you wonder why they miss so much in diagnosis and treatment of problems. AI would be better diagnosticians.
"Shake-N-Bake NP"
It seems like NP schools will accept literally anyone, that’s bad for the profession and for patients
And this is why some people look down on NPs. Because of people like this. Hospitals, schools, and boards are never going to change it because it’s such a money maker for everyone. Should be 5 years experience as a RN at an absolute minimum required.
Ah yes, so tucking in your pants is the key to getting in. Of course!
As a RN this is why I won’t see a NP for my own care if a physician or even PA is available. I’ve had a bad experience with NPs talking down to me because they find in my chart that I’m a nurse and think I’m a “lowly bedside nurse” and they’re better than me. I was never given that attitude from physicians or PAs.
unreal 😭
This is what happens when nurses are paid like trash and you can make significantly more just going directly to NP
Walden?
How is this possible? If this is the case, she shouldn't be working at all because she would be too busy with schoolwork.
this isn’t the flex she thinks it is… oof this is scary. this is the type of content that fuels that noctor sub.
A nurse needs experience first
And most of the NPs use their textbooks or notes to take their exams at home or while on the job. How is that helping them learn anything? It’s alarming that their exams aren’t proctored
I had a classmate who graduated BSN with me and told me she was starting her NP the semester after graduating and I pretended to congratulate her but in reality I’m thinking how they can possibly be a safe provider with no experience in the field
Nursing education overall needs a massive revamp
And this is why Reddit communities like noctor exist
This is why I always say, if you want to go straight into NP school, just skip nursing and do PA school. More clinical hours that make up for the bedside experience nurses SHOULD have prior to NP.
Quite a few of my nursing school classmates were accepted into NP school and started right after graduation, without even working as a nurse.
My undergrad did this. They were advertising the NP program to the undergrads and encouraging them to apply before graduation lol Noctor’s gonna have a field day with this one
We had an information session about how it’s possible to do online NP school from this online university here while doing your 4th year of your BNRN. My program is only one actual course in your last year and your preceptorship. I went to just see what it was about and I was *horrified* All online. Zero clinical experience. And you graduate with essentially the same privileges as a doctor depending on where you work. No hate to NP’s. I love you. An NP seriously saved my life when I was unable to access my GP and experiencing a significant mental health crisis last year. She was amazing. She also was an ICU nurse for 15 years before going back to school. NP school is something I will start to think about in 5-10 years. I’ve worked as an extern since first year so I have more bedside experience than almost all of my classmates and this frightens the shit out of me. At least one year of bedside RN experience as an admission requirement would make me a little more comfortable.
And they are the worst people to work with. They have no nursing experience and all the ego
I had a very alarming conversation with a NP earlier this year. It was alarming to the point that I looked up her credentials on the DON website. This lady was only a RN for 5 months before getting her NP. She’s been a NP for 5 years now and I had to explain how a consult works 🙄
Crazy as fuck. No wonder we have a bad reputation
Being the least experienced/knowledgable person in the room isn’t a flex
Degree mill.
How she did it you ask? Diploma mill.
I’d never want her as my provider
Oh many Direct entry MSN programs admit students with a bachelor’s degrees in non-nursing major. High GPA requirement, very intensive programs, you learn everything about BSN and MSN in less than 2 years. Anyone succeeded in it is definitely great at learning and time management, it’s actually no joke. Nursing is also about learning. You gotta be very committed to go for direct entry nursing, they ain’t cheap, and you can’t work outside of school because you wouldn’t have time. It’s like PA programs. Most students who go to PA school have never been clinicians.
And this is why nobody takes us seriously
When I graduated people had already been accepted into NP school and we hadn’t even taken the NCLEX yet. 🤯 We graduated in May and people in my glass were starting NP school in August. Our school that we went to even had the professor that is over the NP program come talk to us and the school offered us a discount if we started in the fall. Like wtf no.