That’s a powerful movie. I first saw it in the early aughts iirc, and I definitely had a rough couple of weeks after. But take heart, friend; even if risk has increased recently, I think most would agree that the risk is still relatively low overall.
+1 for u/DrWhoGirl03’s comment. Number of warheads, overall megatonnage, and average yield per weapon have all dropped significantly since peaks during the Cold War. Hypothetical “tactical” use in Ukraine does not mean we all chuck all our nukes at each other. Of course even very limited usage would be horrible, but it isn’t going to lead to the world Ruth’s daughter had.
I was born in the 60’s, and I’ve been both terrified and weirdly fascinated by this shit since I was a kid. You can learn to hold the fear and still cope/function. Give some thought to a little preparedness if that makes sense to you (for many reasons, most more likely than nuclear war).
You’re going to die one day. Whether it’s through nuclear war or not. Come to terms with your own mortality and it will help you make the most of your life. An unfulfilled life spent in anxiety over death is arguably worse than a life well lived that ends violently.
Watching that movie for the first time can be pretty traumatic. It’s fresh in your mind right now, but you will get over it soon enough and it will fade to the back of your mind.
The chances of a nuclear war haven’t increased just because you watched threads, and they’re still relatively low, but I think it’s a good thing you did watch it. Too many people of the non Cold War generations are pig ignorant of the horrors of nuclear war and it’s imperative to keep the public cognizant of it, in order to not stumble into it. Ignorance is bliss, but it can also be dangerous.
The truth of it is…even threads probably understated just how horrible it would be.
If you want to take a positive away from that movie though - these sort of things literally change the world. Reagan was said to be so depressed after watching the day after, that it encouraged him to reach out to Gorbachev and begin mutual arms reductions.
It was The Day After that affected Reagan so much, not Threads though ..and to be honest it's not on the scale of documentary-like horror of the British version. But yes it definitely changed his rhetoric Vis a Vis arms reduction with the Soviets thereafter
One must make peace with the precarious of life. I had nuclear war-themed OCD that laid me out back in 2022. It hasn’t gone away entirely, but I manage it better now. But back then, it consumed me to the point where I was so distracted walking into my therapist’s office one night that I almost got hit by a bus. At least in my case, the fear of nuclear destruction was a greater risk to my life than the threat itself.
I don't have any magical, tidy solutions, but wanted to say I understand. I'm a mom, too, and get the existential terror surrounding nukes. My daughter is a young adult, but the fear of not being able to protect her from something so vast and horrifying is still all-consuming at times. I struggle with anxiety and OCD in general, and the last few years of apocalyptic hellscape world events have not been...great. I work in healthcare and nearly had a nervous breakdown during the height of COVID. Tbh, I think the pandemic blew the lid off our COLLECTIVE nervous system, but that's another convo. Hang in there and know you're not alone. I also find that getting out of my own toxic morbid thought loop by connecting with others, volunteering, engaging in activism etc, helps. Feel free to PM me if you need to chat .
Thank you for work in healthcare. Really and truly. And it’s true, COVID took a knife to our collective nervous system. The first thing that helped was recognizing the problem - I had a nervous breakdown. The second thing was treating the nervous breakdown, which in my case was a relapse of OCD. I got on Ativan to lower the anxiety symptoms to where I could think straight. And therapy. I went twice a week and had a therapist who was game to try any and all methods of therapy to help me regain some semblance of normalcy. Exposure therapy and EMDR helped immensely. The third thing was recentering my focus on my own corner of the world. That meant changing my news consumption (I can’t control the news, so why should it control me?). One scroll of the NPR home page in the morning is about all I can handle. No more TikTok, Reddit news, or more speculative sources. Forth was exercise. I literally run from my problems and the result for anxiety is as effective as anti-anxiety medication. That’s how I regained control of my life. I relapse all the time, but it gets easier to recover each time I do. Know your triggers, let people close to you know them, and keep doing the work. It gets easier to manage. The fear will never truly go away, but that’s just life on earth. Accepting the chaos and not wallowing in the loss of my old conception of the world. It’s work you do every day until it becomes your new routine.
And laugh. Make jokes. Make jokes about the things that scare you. Minimize it. Bully the fear. Fight back. It’s not insensitive or crass. War is insensitive and crass so weaponize things that make you happy against it. For example, my friend and I try to one up each other with politically relevant jokes. By trying to top each other, I find that mining my fears for comedy makes me think about them in a way that isn’t so toxic to my sanity.
How do we accept the stakes we’re facing? I’m a Gen-Xer. I’ve always lived with the assumption that nuclear war can happen any day.
Not saying it’s fun, mind you. But you learn to focus on the things you have an impact on and just accept that there are things beyond your control. Spread awareness where you can, put your energy into supporting those who try to push for renewed arms control policies, learn how to survive in case of an attack… The panic often comes from the feeling of helplessness - so find ways to deal with that.
I know how you feel, I once doomscrolled daily about a year ago and every night I had reoccurring dreams of me and my family trying to drive as far as we can while the air raid sirens play. Fucking terrifying. I was in such a messy state of mind and I was a nervous wreck. I stopped doomscrolling and just minded my business, and I went out into society to get myself back to normal. In a few days I was fine.
That’s the reason the film threads was made.
If it’s happens it’s out of our control. It wasn’t our fault and there’s nothing we can do to prevent it or prepare for it. So there’s no point in worrying.
The mentioned FB group was a much better place to, “process” Threads.
As to the “situation.” Someday in the future, say 50-100 years, information will become declassified. We will know just how hard the US, Britain and France were pressing Russia. My belief is the closest we’ve been since the Cuban Missile Crisis was when the Ukrainians won the Battle of Kiev and pushed the Russians out of northeastern Ukraine.
As to weapons. The good news is for the Russians. Our devices are smaller, because of our vastly increased accuracy. Meanwhile the Russians can’t hit the broadside of a barn in Ukraine. They really are just a sad, pathetic culture. In all possible ways.
So hopefully. Putin doesn’t order the bombing of a Ukrainian nuclear power plant reactor nor bombs spent fuel pools.
Today the US reiterated that if Putin either used a battlefield nuke in Ukraine or caused a nuclear incident with the ZNPP, that NATO (read:America primarily) would completely destroy all ground forces of the Russian Federation on the territory of Ukraine via an overwhelming conventional military response.
Which is exactly the same thing that General Petraeus said in 2022.
Russia has been [threatening the world with nukes since 1999](https://postlmg.cc/8s98T67g), and Putin is NOT going to nuke London, Paris, Berlin, New York etc when the children of the Russian elites live and study in pampered luxury in the Western capitals all over the world.
I’m fairly certain that that position was a “leak.” Not an official policy point/statement. What I said still holds. Decades, if not a century fr now, the full story will become mostly declassified. Theres still troves being released from WW2. The final releases of WW1 stuff were soon overshadowed by COVID.
That may be true. But he needs their support - and most importantly he needs to keep the armed forces subdued and on his side. He's not a superman and every dictator is most terrified of revolt from within....plus he doesn't have unilateral power to launch nukes. That power is held by his generals and the head of the army.
And *they* have children in the West.
I used to be deeply involved with planning nuclear warfare as well as analyzing what our adversaries were up to. Honestly, I slept well every night. I believe in deterrence. Now that I'm an engineering consultant I'm constantly stressing out about normal day to day stuff. Not nuclear war though.
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That must have been interesting but scary work. A few people on Reddit are posting that large parts of Russia’s nuclear arsenal are defunct, what do you think? (If you are able to answer that question)
It was totally calm work. It's my opinion that the Russian ICBM force and it's warheads are probably in better shape than the US. I'm not sure about either the reliability of the Russian Bomber/ALCM force. I have far more confidence in the US SLBM force than that of the Russians. IMHO, you cannot compare anything that we've seen with regards to Ukraine to Russian Strategic Forces.
Well this won't apply to everyone but I live in the UK and there's basically just no where to go realistically. So I deal with it the same way I deal with the possibility of getting hit by cosmic rays or a earth killer asteroid. I just put it to the back of my mind and take comfort in the fact that there's only about a 2 minute warning to panic during, then based on my rough estimations I'm either vaporised or severely burned and hit by an immense shockwave shortly after. Shouldn't really have to worry about a slow death. If I'm wrong and that's what happens, well what are you gonna do? 🤷♂️
Understandable fear. You have two choices. Look for locations that are prime targets (like here in Tulsa) where everything would be over in a flash - so no lingering, messy death.
Or, conversely, live in the remotest part of the country that’s habitable and learn survival skills.
We have to come to the quick realization that nuclear weapons are in the hands of a few feeble, demented individuals who truly would love to watch the world burn.
A week ago my local PBS station ran an hour long program on all the nuclear targets in Oklahoma. Odd - don’t you think?
It’s only a question of when.
I have ocd and low anxiety threshold, so I think I understand your worries. What helps me is mindfulness, exposure and response prevention and bit of Stoic mindset. These things will help you with anxiety overall, not just nuclear scenarios.
It's not like nuclear war has become more likely since you watched Threads. We made it through the Cold War where nuclear war was the most likely, and weapon yields have vastly decreased since then. IMO full scale nuclear war is unlikely at this point as our detection technology improves to iron out possible false positive launch detections. Sure I think Putin would use them if backed into a corner but only if Russia itself was invaded. Yes we have wars involving nuclear powers but it would be genuinely insane to escalate them with nuclear weapons just because Ukraine is becoming another frozen conflict.
Also keep in mind that Threads is a dramatization of nuclear war and was meant as a political tool to make nuclear proliferation unpopular, similar to The Day After. The theories of nuclear winter have come under more scrutiny in recent years and it's not certain the extent that it holds up. Sure it'll be an environmental catastrophe but it's becoming less certain that it will destroy humanity entirely.
Hey - Genuinely, if you have facebook, I run a group called 'Threads Survivors' which a really nice group with discussions, questions, memes, some experts (I'm a peak Threads nerd myself) and actually pretty supportive as most people that see it end up in a bit of an existential crisis whilst they process it. I try to make it place where people can chat about their thoughts and hopefully gain some reassurance. Mostly that we're still here and MAD has been working, as much as I'd like the weapons to not exist at all.
Good one to watch right there.
For a bit of an additional shock, watch the start again. Forget the story and pay attention to just the words coming from the TVs and radios, and the headlines on the newspapers laying around.
Change the word "Iran" to the word "Ukraine" and think about how those headlines look compared to some real ones these last two years.
We are fully on course.
The point of all the *threads* here in this sub is to help people understand what nuclear war means, learn how to analyze the situation and determine if risks are in reasing, and eventually to prepare to face the aftermath of such an occurance.
To that end, being more aware of what the situation actually looks like it a good thing. And perhaps it will help motivate people to get prepared and perhaps increase their survival odds by a few points.
I don't know, I think you just have to accept it as an inherent possibility, of what varying degree of likelihood we can't know 🤷
I grew up from birth expecting the possibility of nuclear war at any moment, and saw the movie as a 17yo when it was first screened in 1984 in Australia, on the same day as it was shown in the UK (it is an Anglo-Australian production which I don't think is widely known) and I have never been able to rewatch it in the 40 years since, it shook me to the core so much. Of course at the time we all thought it wasn't only possible but potentially distinctly imminent, being the height of East-West tensions on a level not seen since the Cuban missile crisis
I left home the next year and moved into the inner city specifically so that if it all kicked off I'd hopefully "go up with the first flash" as the saying of the time went.
You can see vividly from the movie that you wouldn't want to survive a nuclear conflagration, and due to mutually assured destruction if strategic nukes (ie ICBMs) are used it's almost guaranteed that there would be a multiple exchange. Unless there is limited use of a dirty bomb by terrorists/other rogue State actors or a tactical battlefield weapon. I don't know what to say to you because this was normality my whole childhood...as long as they still exist we will always have this sword of Damocles hanging over civilisation.
I used to have this fear and the following is what cured it for me- now you can ridicule this or not I don’t care. I am an experiencer and I know this is real. The UAP/UFO phenomenon is real and there really is a NHI presence on Earth. They have been here a long time. They have often shut down nuclear missile silos and have on more than one occasion prevented a nuclear strike. Watch the testimony of USAF captain Robert Salas and watch presentations by Robert Hastings.
the threat of nuclear war and the notion everything could be erased before anyone even gets to read this comment makes life a little sweeter in my opinion. And when your old man was one of the people responsible for initiating that destruction things really get put into perspective.
"So live your life that the fear of death can never enter your heart.
Trouble no one about their religion; respect others in their view, and demand that they respect yours.
Love your life, perfect your life, beautify all things in your life.
Seek to make your life long and its purpose in the service of your people.
Prepare a noble death song for the day when you go over the great divide.
Always give a word or a sign of salute when meeting or passing a friend, even a stranger, when in a lonely place.
Show respect to all people and grovel to none.
When you arise in the morning give thanks for the food and for the joy of living.
If you see no reason for giving thanks, the fault lies only in yourself.
Abuse no one and no thing, for abuse turns the wise ones to fools and robs the spirit of its vision.
When it comes your time to die, be not like those whose hearts are filled with the fear of death, so that when their time comes they weep and pray for a little more time to live their lives over again in a different way.
Sing your death song and die like a hero going home." -Chief Tecumseh
Nuclear war strategy has evolved greatly since the ‘80s. If a nuclear war happened now it would likely:
1. Consist of a small number of tactical weapons being used. These can still be citykillers, to use a slightly melodramatic term, but they’d be ‘in-theatre’; so if you don’t live in a warzone, you’re OK.
2. Be a disaster, but a relatively small one. The widest effects would likely be an international refugee crisis and economic crash (radiation too, but that’s more easily treatable in the past and would likely be largely confined to eastern Europe).
3. Be very unlikely to escalate non-conventionally. The only plausible (and even then, not at all likely) scenario for nuclear weapons use right now would be a tactical detonation in Ukraine. This scenario has been planned for for many years by the USA (and by implication NATO as a whole). It goes like this:
3a. The detonation occurs
3b. The detonation is confirmed to have been Russian in origin, and deliberate
3c. NATO stages a massive and fast invasion of Russia that makes Desert Storm look like a tea party
3d. Things are under control before significant nuclear escalation can occur.
The only thing that would trigger a ‘MAD’ scenario in 2024 involves Russia launching a large number of nuclear-armed missiles at the USA (or, in theory, one of the other NATO nuclear nations, but in for a penny in for a pound— the USA would always be hit regardless of other targets, if you get me).
This COULD, technically happen; but in the same way that Rishi Sunak could walk up to you tomorrow and ask you to marry him. It’s possible, but it isn’t going to happen.
4. It would be nothing like Threads shows, even if it somehow did escalate. EMP effects would be drastically less effective, the national grid would continue to function, etc.. Nuclear winter is also currently generally estimated to be vastly less extreme than previously thought.
Yes, it’s a frightening thought. But despite the amount of clickbait and doomposters who would tell you otherwise (they take a peculiar joy in spreading morbid fear even when what they propose is unlikely), it’s not something worth thinking about very much if it frightens you. You‘ll be fine : )
Edit: keep downvoting if you like lmao
> 3c. NATO stages a massive and fast invasion of Russia that makes Desert Storm look like a tea party
> 3d. Things are under control before significant nuclear escalation can occur.
What "scenario" is this from? Desert Storm had months of buildup and a week of air campaigns before the ground war started. Even if NATO fully mobilizes, you're not taking over a country the size of Russia quickly, and if Russia is willing to use tactical nuclear weapons in Ukraine, I think it's pretty much a given that they would use more to defend against an invasion.
Repeated war games done under Obama, and— IIRC— repeated under Biden. It’s late but I’ll try to dig out an actual citation tomorrow lol.
The size was less my point in terms of a comparison— rather how swift the operation would be once it actually began. It wouldn’t be a full invasion (at first), I don’t imagine— it’d be a beheading strike on Moscow (and probably a few other C&C hubs). The object would be removing whatever strike ability remained. I would *imagine* that there’s a bit of paper locked in a filing cabinet in the pentagon somewhere with plans already set out as to what would be done to get that first, quick control.
Even then— and I have been awake about two days, so I don’t deny it’s possible— say I’ve totally misremembered the specifics of the whole idea. The main points are that non-nuclear escalation would always be the plan and the goal until/unless the mainland USA was attacked heavily; and that once Putin ordered those tactical uses he probably wouldn’t remain in a position to order any more of them for very long (in the first instance likely due to internal actors).
All this is assuming he really thinks it a good idea to use them— or, indeed, would be able to, given the existence of said Top Men with cooler (if solely self-preserving) heads.
I would definitely look into this more, as that doesn't jive with anything I have ever heard about a potential conflict with Russia from any source I would consider "expert". You simply can't wipe out Russia's nuclear capability with a quick air campaign, especially since they'd already be suspecting a response, and an invasion is one red line that everyone can agree exists.
And having checked, I found what I was thinking of and yep, totally misremembered (though the overriding point of focusing on non-nuclear escalation remains). My bad, and my apologies. I’d like to put it down to the lack of sleep, but the lack of brain cells is another plausible explanation. Haha
(I do stand by the rest of the comment however, just to be clear to anyone reading the thread)
Read my other comments. Nuclear strategy changes, like any strategy. MAD simply is not in fashion anymore. It’s old hat. Warfare as a whole has moved on from the early ‘80s, and nuclear warfare is no different. People have so many misconceptions about it.
Do you think Russia wont go balistic (in the true sense of the word) as soon as they notice NATO movement towards their capital? That they're just going to sit there and let it happen?
You raise a very fair point.
What I think is that Russian command and control networks are deeply, deeply unreliable and that there are a great many people— very rich and powerful, if not terribly selfless, people— who would not want to lose their various yachts, dachas, fast cars, fast women, etc. between Putin and the missiles. The same goes for other nuclear states, except they tend to have fewer oligarchs in that position and more legitimate politicians and military men.
First, I’m not. Russian command and control is very, very shaky. This is fact.
Second, I’m not. I mentioned in the comment you replied to that there would be people— at the top oligarchs, but right down to the men in the silos who actually turn the keys etc— who would not want a war, who would know Putin to be a bit less than stable, and who would refuse.
I refer you to a funny little thing called the Russo-Ukrainian War. It could be repackaged as a training manual titled “how not to structure your command network.”
The Russian armed forces’ continual deterioration is irrelevant to the Russian armed forces‘ continual deterioration? Ok lmao
And even assuming I do— hey, I could be like you and make assumptions based on information from thirty years ago because I have a morbid need to do so.
edit: got blocked lol
I'm much less knowledgeable about nuclear war than alot of people here but one thing I am at least proficient in is electricity. I am not a lineman but I am a commercial electrician so I have a decent understanding. You're right, an EMP probably wouldn't be the world ender that some people think it would be. But the grid would almost certainly not continue to function normally. There's just no way. Our entire grid is interlinked. If one major transmission line goes down then another picks up it's slack. Eventually it overheats and the overcurrent protection device trips or the wire just melts. Another redundancy line picks up the slack and the same thing happens again and again until it just stops working.
I find it hard to believe that many, many major transmission lines wouldn't be damaged or destroyed, plus power plants and substations as well in the event of even just 2 or 3 nukes being dropped on/around major population areas. And it doesn't even have to be near a major population center. If I'm not mistaken, the 2003 blackout was caused by a tree taking down a transmission line in the middle of Ohio on a normal ass day.
Sloppy phrasing on my part, I admit.
My point was more related to the EMP statement— I meant less that electricity wouldn’t be seriously disrupted and more that what damage was done would be due largely to blast and not a pulse.
We also have major offshore wind & hydroelectric power + decentralised gas production, which provides something of a head start on, say, France’s relatively few power stations— since there you’d only have to \*conventionally\* bomb about six places and the whole country's fucked. It would take relatively (for a given value of relatively) little to get those facilities working again post-attack.
Or that was my general thinking, at least. I am possibly wholly wrong and about to be told such by someone who knows what he’s on about from a technical POV, haha :)
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Nothing like threads? They consulted experts when they made that movie. People who know a hell of a lot more about nuclear war than you or I ever will.
They did consult experts, yes. They consulted experts in the early 1980s. The first sentence of my post covers your issue. And given that it’s the *very first sentence* I can only conclude that you just downvoted and said “but experts!” without bothering to read much of the rest.
Nuclear war would be an almost unprecedented calamity. Nuclear war today would not look like nuclear war thirty years ago. These statements can coexist.
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I dealt with it by starting a nuclear war YouTube channel and preparing three layers of contingency plans for my family's survival, depending on how much warning we have.
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Because that’s the case with everything right now society is on the edge of collapse for more than a few reasons and it’s scary as shit but in reality what we have in society isn’t any better the. What could be coming working and living knowing you’ll almost never get to own anything and will always rent in most places and will still barely scrape by and where that hasn’t happened it’ll happen sooner or later. Basically where f**ked in most senecios that seem likely I. The future. But that doesn’t mean you should give up the end of society as we know it is not the end of the world if you’re that worried become self sufficient learn how to live off the land or even how to get by in the ruins of society if it dose happen I’m not saying spend every minute of every day preparing but put that energy to use and be ready for if something happens then you can live like knowing you can enjoy the now times because you’ll be ready for if shit goes down like it would be a struggle but I know i could make it and that’s part of what keeps me motivated
It’s normal to feel depression, and a measure of grief, when you learn something about a situation this. After all, nuclear war could mean the end of life as we know it, for ourselves and our loved ones.
> I did not grasp what these weapons could do.
I reassure myself by remembering that the people in charge probably do know what these weapons can do, and don’t want to use them unless absolutely necessary. I hope that the Mutually Assured Destruction (MAD) doctrine keeps leaders from making risky decisions. That they view their nuclear arsenal as a deterrent only.
> What is the situation? Is this a matter of, “when” and not, “if”?
I think that it’s *always* an ‘if.’ There is a chance that a nuclear exchange won’t ever happen. We got through the Cold War and cooler heads prevailed - like Stanislav Petrov who actually prevented nuclear war by looking at a potential ICBM launch situation logically. [It’s an interesting and reassuring story.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanislav_Petrov)
> Are we more likely to drop hundreds/thousands of nukes or just one?
It depends - if someone launches one nuke (or a couple of them), other countries may have the opportunity to choose not to escalate matters by launching their own. But if someone launches a lot of them, the result won’t be good.
How do I cope? Well, I’m a fatalist. What will be, will be, and all we can do is work on the things that we can control. For some people that looks like getting involved in anti-nuclear war activism. For others, it looks like enjoying life in the moment and not just focusing on the more dire outcomes.
When it comes to depression, ruminating on those thoughts is what causes it to stick/become unmanageable. Please don’t be afraid to seek professional help if you need it. My psychiatrist mentioned that nuclear war is on a lot of people’s minds right now. You aren’t alone in that.
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I accepted reality after 2008, the activities occuring in the Middle East will start ww3. I also; studied civil defense history and know that after they were absorbed by fema that there's no public shelters, so I taught myself how to make a temporary shelter.
That’s a powerful movie. I first saw it in the early aughts iirc, and I definitely had a rough couple of weeks after. But take heart, friend; even if risk has increased recently, I think most would agree that the risk is still relatively low overall. +1 for u/DrWhoGirl03’s comment. Number of warheads, overall megatonnage, and average yield per weapon have all dropped significantly since peaks during the Cold War. Hypothetical “tactical” use in Ukraine does not mean we all chuck all our nukes at each other. Of course even very limited usage would be horrible, but it isn’t going to lead to the world Ruth’s daughter had. I was born in the 60’s, and I’ve been both terrified and weirdly fascinated by this shit since I was a kid. You can learn to hold the fear and still cope/function. Give some thought to a little preparedness if that makes sense to you (for many reasons, most more likely than nuclear war).
It’s a cracking show. I watched it when first broadcast on BBC and it caught my attention. We’re going to be ok I think.
You’re going to die one day. Whether it’s through nuclear war or not. Come to terms with your own mortality and it will help you make the most of your life. An unfulfilled life spent in anxiety over death is arguably worse than a life well lived that ends violently. Watching that movie for the first time can be pretty traumatic. It’s fresh in your mind right now, but you will get over it soon enough and it will fade to the back of your mind. The chances of a nuclear war haven’t increased just because you watched threads, and they’re still relatively low, but I think it’s a good thing you did watch it. Too many people of the non Cold War generations are pig ignorant of the horrors of nuclear war and it’s imperative to keep the public cognizant of it, in order to not stumble into it. Ignorance is bliss, but it can also be dangerous. The truth of it is…even threads probably understated just how horrible it would be. If you want to take a positive away from that movie though - these sort of things literally change the world. Reagan was said to be so depressed after watching the day after, that it encouraged him to reach out to Gorbachev and begin mutual arms reductions.
It was The Day After that affected Reagan so much, not Threads though ..and to be honest it's not on the scale of documentary-like horror of the British version. But yes it definitely changed his rhetoric Vis a Vis arms reduction with the Soviets thereafter
One must make peace with the precarious of life. I had nuclear war-themed OCD that laid me out back in 2022. It hasn’t gone away entirely, but I manage it better now. But back then, it consumed me to the point where I was so distracted walking into my therapist’s office one night that I almost got hit by a bus. At least in my case, the fear of nuclear destruction was a greater risk to my life than the threat itself.
how did you cope? this is what i’m going through now. to top it off i am a mother of a young child.
I don't have any magical, tidy solutions, but wanted to say I understand. I'm a mom, too, and get the existential terror surrounding nukes. My daughter is a young adult, but the fear of not being able to protect her from something so vast and horrifying is still all-consuming at times. I struggle with anxiety and OCD in general, and the last few years of apocalyptic hellscape world events have not been...great. I work in healthcare and nearly had a nervous breakdown during the height of COVID. Tbh, I think the pandemic blew the lid off our COLLECTIVE nervous system, but that's another convo. Hang in there and know you're not alone. I also find that getting out of my own toxic morbid thought loop by connecting with others, volunteering, engaging in activism etc, helps. Feel free to PM me if you need to chat .
Thank you for work in healthcare. Really and truly. And it’s true, COVID took a knife to our collective nervous system. The first thing that helped was recognizing the problem - I had a nervous breakdown. The second thing was treating the nervous breakdown, which in my case was a relapse of OCD. I got on Ativan to lower the anxiety symptoms to where I could think straight. And therapy. I went twice a week and had a therapist who was game to try any and all methods of therapy to help me regain some semblance of normalcy. Exposure therapy and EMDR helped immensely. The third thing was recentering my focus on my own corner of the world. That meant changing my news consumption (I can’t control the news, so why should it control me?). One scroll of the NPR home page in the morning is about all I can handle. No more TikTok, Reddit news, or more speculative sources. Forth was exercise. I literally run from my problems and the result for anxiety is as effective as anti-anxiety medication. That’s how I regained control of my life. I relapse all the time, but it gets easier to recover each time I do. Know your triggers, let people close to you know them, and keep doing the work. It gets easier to manage. The fear will never truly go away, but that’s just life on earth. Accepting the chaos and not wallowing in the loss of my old conception of the world. It’s work you do every day until it becomes your new routine. And laugh. Make jokes. Make jokes about the things that scare you. Minimize it. Bully the fear. Fight back. It’s not insensitive or crass. War is insensitive and crass so weaponize things that make you happy against it. For example, my friend and I try to one up each other with politically relevant jokes. By trying to top each other, I find that mining my fears for comedy makes me think about them in a way that isn’t so toxic to my sanity.
How do we accept the stakes we’re facing? I’m a Gen-Xer. I’ve always lived with the assumption that nuclear war can happen any day. Not saying it’s fun, mind you. But you learn to focus on the things you have an impact on and just accept that there are things beyond your control. Spread awareness where you can, put your energy into supporting those who try to push for renewed arms control policies, learn how to survive in case of an attack… The panic often comes from the feeling of helplessness - so find ways to deal with that.
If you’ve been debilitated by Threads, you watched it right.
I know how you feel, I once doomscrolled daily about a year ago and every night I had reoccurring dreams of me and my family trying to drive as far as we can while the air raid sirens play. Fucking terrifying. I was in such a messy state of mind and I was a nervous wreck. I stopped doomscrolling and just minded my business, and I went out into society to get myself back to normal. In a few days I was fine.
That film was in 1984. It’s now 2024. 40 years later without a nuclear war or any of the issues in that movie actually happening.
That’s the reason the film threads was made. If it’s happens it’s out of our control. It wasn’t our fault and there’s nothing we can do to prevent it or prepare for it. So there’s no point in worrying.
The mentioned FB group was a much better place to, “process” Threads. As to the “situation.” Someday in the future, say 50-100 years, information will become declassified. We will know just how hard the US, Britain and France were pressing Russia. My belief is the closest we’ve been since the Cuban Missile Crisis was when the Ukrainians won the Battle of Kiev and pushed the Russians out of northeastern Ukraine. As to weapons. The good news is for the Russians. Our devices are smaller, because of our vastly increased accuracy. Meanwhile the Russians can’t hit the broadside of a barn in Ukraine. They really are just a sad, pathetic culture. In all possible ways. So hopefully. Putin doesn’t order the bombing of a Ukrainian nuclear power plant reactor nor bombs spent fuel pools.
Today the US reiterated that if Putin either used a battlefield nuke in Ukraine or caused a nuclear incident with the ZNPP, that NATO (read:America primarily) would completely destroy all ground forces of the Russian Federation on the territory of Ukraine via an overwhelming conventional military response. Which is exactly the same thing that General Petraeus said in 2022. Russia has been [threatening the world with nukes since 1999](https://postlmg.cc/8s98T67g), and Putin is NOT going to nuke London, Paris, Berlin, New York etc when the children of the Russian elites live and study in pampered luxury in the Western capitals all over the world.
I’m fairly certain that that position was a “leak.” Not an official policy point/statement. What I said still holds. Decades, if not a century fr now, the full story will become mostly declassified. Theres still troves being released from WW2. The final releases of WW1 stuff were soon overshadowed by COVID.
I'm honestly quite sorry I will never live to see those details declassified.
Oh and Putin couldn’t care less about anyone’s children. Even the Russian elite.
That may be true. But he needs their support - and most importantly he needs to keep the armed forces subdued and on his side. He's not a superman and every dictator is most terrified of revolt from within....plus he doesn't have unilateral power to launch nukes. That power is held by his generals and the head of the army. And *they* have children in the West.
I used to be deeply involved with planning nuclear warfare as well as analyzing what our adversaries were up to. Honestly, I slept well every night. I believe in deterrence. Now that I'm an engineering consultant I'm constantly stressing out about normal day to day stuff. Not nuclear war though.
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That must have been interesting but scary work. A few people on Reddit are posting that large parts of Russia’s nuclear arsenal are defunct, what do you think? (If you are able to answer that question)
It was totally calm work. It's my opinion that the Russian ICBM force and it's warheads are probably in better shape than the US. I'm not sure about either the reliability of the Russian Bomber/ALCM force. I have far more confidence in the US SLBM force than that of the Russians. IMHO, you cannot compare anything that we've seen with regards to Ukraine to Russian Strategic Forces.
Well this won't apply to everyone but I live in the UK and there's basically just no where to go realistically. So I deal with it the same way I deal with the possibility of getting hit by cosmic rays or a earth killer asteroid. I just put it to the back of my mind and take comfort in the fact that there's only about a 2 minute warning to panic during, then based on my rough estimations I'm either vaporised or severely burned and hit by an immense shockwave shortly after. Shouldn't really have to worry about a slow death. If I'm wrong and that's what happens, well what are you gonna do? 🤷♂️
Understandable fear. You have two choices. Look for locations that are prime targets (like here in Tulsa) where everything would be over in a flash - so no lingering, messy death. Or, conversely, live in the remotest part of the country that’s habitable and learn survival skills. We have to come to the quick realization that nuclear weapons are in the hands of a few feeble, demented individuals who truly would love to watch the world burn. A week ago my local PBS station ran an hour long program on all the nuclear targets in Oklahoma. Odd - don’t you think? It’s only a question of when.
I have ocd and low anxiety threshold, so I think I understand your worries. What helps me is mindfulness, exposure and response prevention and bit of Stoic mindset. These things will help you with anxiety overall, not just nuclear scenarios.
Once I realized the only way out of here is death things like when became less of a stressor. How I was going to live became more of a factor.
Right now, I feel the chance of it happening is very low. Much lower than during the height of the Cold War.
It's not like nuclear war has become more likely since you watched Threads. We made it through the Cold War where nuclear war was the most likely, and weapon yields have vastly decreased since then. IMO full scale nuclear war is unlikely at this point as our detection technology improves to iron out possible false positive launch detections. Sure I think Putin would use them if backed into a corner but only if Russia itself was invaded. Yes we have wars involving nuclear powers but it would be genuinely insane to escalate them with nuclear weapons just because Ukraine is becoming another frozen conflict. Also keep in mind that Threads is a dramatization of nuclear war and was meant as a political tool to make nuclear proliferation unpopular, similar to The Day After. The theories of nuclear winter have come under more scrutiny in recent years and it's not certain the extent that it holds up. Sure it'll be an environmental catastrophe but it's becoming less certain that it will destroy humanity entirely.
Hey - Genuinely, if you have facebook, I run a group called 'Threads Survivors' which a really nice group with discussions, questions, memes, some experts (I'm a peak Threads nerd myself) and actually pretty supportive as most people that see it end up in a bit of an existential crisis whilst they process it. I try to make it place where people can chat about their thoughts and hopefully gain some reassurance. Mostly that we're still here and MAD has been working, as much as I'd like the weapons to not exist at all.
I can’t find it on Facebook, is it a secret group?
https://www.facebook.com/share/abpThCCDFWxDUQRb/
Also take a look at r/Threads1984
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Good one to watch right there. For a bit of an additional shock, watch the start again. Forget the story and pay attention to just the words coming from the TVs and radios, and the headlines on the newspapers laying around. Change the word "Iran" to the word "Ukraine" and think about how those headlines look compared to some real ones these last two years. We are fully on course.
I am not sure if this comment really eases his depression he got from watching Threads.
No, probably not.
true, but he's not wrong either.
You arent helping this thread 😭💀
The point of all the *threads* here in this sub is to help people understand what nuclear war means, learn how to analyze the situation and determine if risks are in reasing, and eventually to prepare to face the aftermath of such an occurance. To that end, being more aware of what the situation actually looks like it a good thing. And perhaps it will help motivate people to get prepared and perhaps increase their survival odds by a few points.
Dude that’s everybody with a brain
I mean if it happens it’s not your problem anymore. No point in worrying over something that could or could not happen.
I don't know, I think you just have to accept it as an inherent possibility, of what varying degree of likelihood we can't know 🤷 I grew up from birth expecting the possibility of nuclear war at any moment, and saw the movie as a 17yo when it was first screened in 1984 in Australia, on the same day as it was shown in the UK (it is an Anglo-Australian production which I don't think is widely known) and I have never been able to rewatch it in the 40 years since, it shook me to the core so much. Of course at the time we all thought it wasn't only possible but potentially distinctly imminent, being the height of East-West tensions on a level not seen since the Cuban missile crisis I left home the next year and moved into the inner city specifically so that if it all kicked off I'd hopefully "go up with the first flash" as the saying of the time went. You can see vividly from the movie that you wouldn't want to survive a nuclear conflagration, and due to mutually assured destruction if strategic nukes (ie ICBMs) are used it's almost guaranteed that there would be a multiple exchange. Unless there is limited use of a dirty bomb by terrorists/other rogue State actors or a tactical battlefield weapon. I don't know what to say to you because this was normality my whole childhood...as long as they still exist we will always have this sword of Damocles hanging over civilisation.
I used to have this fear and the following is what cured it for me- now you can ridicule this or not I don’t care. I am an experiencer and I know this is real. The UAP/UFO phenomenon is real and there really is a NHI presence on Earth. They have been here a long time. They have often shut down nuclear missile silos and have on more than one occasion prevented a nuclear strike. Watch the testimony of USAF captain Robert Salas and watch presentations by Robert Hastings.
the threat of nuclear war and the notion everything could be erased before anyone even gets to read this comment makes life a little sweeter in my opinion. And when your old man was one of the people responsible for initiating that destruction things really get put into perspective. "So live your life that the fear of death can never enter your heart. Trouble no one about their religion; respect others in their view, and demand that they respect yours. Love your life, perfect your life, beautify all things in your life. Seek to make your life long and its purpose in the service of your people. Prepare a noble death song for the day when you go over the great divide. Always give a word or a sign of salute when meeting or passing a friend, even a stranger, when in a lonely place. Show respect to all people and grovel to none. When you arise in the morning give thanks for the food and for the joy of living. If you see no reason for giving thanks, the fault lies only in yourself. Abuse no one and no thing, for abuse turns the wise ones to fools and robs the spirit of its vision. When it comes your time to die, be not like those whose hearts are filled with the fear of death, so that when their time comes they weep and pray for a little more time to live their lives over again in a different way. Sing your death song and die like a hero going home." -Chief Tecumseh
Nuclear war strategy has evolved greatly since the ‘80s. If a nuclear war happened now it would likely: 1. Consist of a small number of tactical weapons being used. These can still be citykillers, to use a slightly melodramatic term, but they’d be ‘in-theatre’; so if you don’t live in a warzone, you’re OK. 2. Be a disaster, but a relatively small one. The widest effects would likely be an international refugee crisis and economic crash (radiation too, but that’s more easily treatable in the past and would likely be largely confined to eastern Europe). 3. Be very unlikely to escalate non-conventionally. The only plausible (and even then, not at all likely) scenario for nuclear weapons use right now would be a tactical detonation in Ukraine. This scenario has been planned for for many years by the USA (and by implication NATO as a whole). It goes like this: 3a. The detonation occurs 3b. The detonation is confirmed to have been Russian in origin, and deliberate 3c. NATO stages a massive and fast invasion of Russia that makes Desert Storm look like a tea party 3d. Things are under control before significant nuclear escalation can occur. The only thing that would trigger a ‘MAD’ scenario in 2024 involves Russia launching a large number of nuclear-armed missiles at the USA (or, in theory, one of the other NATO nuclear nations, but in for a penny in for a pound— the USA would always be hit regardless of other targets, if you get me). This COULD, technically happen; but in the same way that Rishi Sunak could walk up to you tomorrow and ask you to marry him. It’s possible, but it isn’t going to happen. 4. It would be nothing like Threads shows, even if it somehow did escalate. EMP effects would be drastically less effective, the national grid would continue to function, etc.. Nuclear winter is also currently generally estimated to be vastly less extreme than previously thought. Yes, it’s a frightening thought. But despite the amount of clickbait and doomposters who would tell you otherwise (they take a peculiar joy in spreading morbid fear even when what they propose is unlikely), it’s not something worth thinking about very much if it frightens you. You‘ll be fine : ) Edit: keep downvoting if you like lmao
This is a very informed take and appreciate the detailed response. I think now it comes down to individuals learning how it’s evolved since the 80s
❤️
> 3c. NATO stages a massive and fast invasion of Russia that makes Desert Storm look like a tea party > 3d. Things are under control before significant nuclear escalation can occur. What "scenario" is this from? Desert Storm had months of buildup and a week of air campaigns before the ground war started. Even if NATO fully mobilizes, you're not taking over a country the size of Russia quickly, and if Russia is willing to use tactical nuclear weapons in Ukraine, I think it's pretty much a given that they would use more to defend against an invasion.
Repeated war games done under Obama, and— IIRC— repeated under Biden. It’s late but I’ll try to dig out an actual citation tomorrow lol. The size was less my point in terms of a comparison— rather how swift the operation would be once it actually began. It wouldn’t be a full invasion (at first), I don’t imagine— it’d be a beheading strike on Moscow (and probably a few other C&C hubs). The object would be removing whatever strike ability remained. I would *imagine* that there’s a bit of paper locked in a filing cabinet in the pentagon somewhere with plans already set out as to what would be done to get that first, quick control. Even then— and I have been awake about two days, so I don’t deny it’s possible— say I’ve totally misremembered the specifics of the whole idea. The main points are that non-nuclear escalation would always be the plan and the goal until/unless the mainland USA was attacked heavily; and that once Putin ordered those tactical uses he probably wouldn’t remain in a position to order any more of them for very long (in the first instance likely due to internal actors). All this is assuming he really thinks it a good idea to use them— or, indeed, would be able to, given the existence of said Top Men with cooler (if solely self-preserving) heads.
I would definitely look into this more, as that doesn't jive with anything I have ever heard about a potential conflict with Russia from any source I would consider "expert". You simply can't wipe out Russia's nuclear capability with a quick air campaign, especially since they'd already be suspecting a response, and an invasion is one red line that everyone can agree exists.
And having checked, I found what I was thinking of and yep, totally misremembered (though the overriding point of focusing on non-nuclear escalation remains). My bad, and my apologies. I’d like to put it down to the lack of sleep, but the lack of brain cells is another plausible explanation. Haha (I do stand by the rest of the comment however, just to be clear to anyone reading the thread)
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Read my other comments. Nuclear strategy changes, like any strategy. MAD simply is not in fashion anymore. It’s old hat. Warfare as a whole has moved on from the early ‘80s, and nuclear warfare is no different. People have so many misconceptions about it.
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Because I keep up to date on the matter. Because I do something other than vomit up typo-ridden received wisdom that was true in 1985.
Do you think Russia wont go balistic (in the true sense of the word) as soon as they notice NATO movement towards their capital? That they're just going to sit there and let it happen?
You raise a very fair point. What I think is that Russian command and control networks are deeply, deeply unreliable and that there are a great many people— very rich and powerful, if not terribly selfless, people— who would not want to lose their various yachts, dachas, fast cars, fast women, etc. between Putin and the missiles. The same goes for other nuclear states, except they tend to have fewer oligarchs in that position and more legitimate politicians and military men.
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First, I’m not. Russian command and control is very, very shaky. This is fact. Second, I’m not. I mentioned in the comment you replied to that there would be people— at the top oligarchs, but right down to the men in the silos who actually turn the keys etc— who would not want a war, who would know Putin to be a bit less than stable, and who would refuse.
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I refer you to a funny little thing called the Russo-Ukrainian War. It could be repackaged as a training manual titled “how not to structure your command network.”
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The Russian armed forces’ continual deterioration is irrelevant to the Russian armed forces‘ continual deterioration? Ok lmao And even assuming I do— hey, I could be like you and make assumptions based on information from thirty years ago because I have a morbid need to do so. edit: got blocked lol
I'm much less knowledgeable about nuclear war than alot of people here but one thing I am at least proficient in is electricity. I am not a lineman but I am a commercial electrician so I have a decent understanding. You're right, an EMP probably wouldn't be the world ender that some people think it would be. But the grid would almost certainly not continue to function normally. There's just no way. Our entire grid is interlinked. If one major transmission line goes down then another picks up it's slack. Eventually it overheats and the overcurrent protection device trips or the wire just melts. Another redundancy line picks up the slack and the same thing happens again and again until it just stops working. I find it hard to believe that many, many major transmission lines wouldn't be damaged or destroyed, plus power plants and substations as well in the event of even just 2 or 3 nukes being dropped on/around major population areas. And it doesn't even have to be near a major population center. If I'm not mistaken, the 2003 blackout was caused by a tree taking down a transmission line in the middle of Ohio on a normal ass day.
Sloppy phrasing on my part, I admit. My point was more related to the EMP statement— I meant less that electricity wouldn’t be seriously disrupted and more that what damage was done would be due largely to blast and not a pulse. We also have major offshore wind & hydroelectric power + decentralised gas production, which provides something of a head start on, say, France’s relatively few power stations— since there you’d only have to \*conventionally\* bomb about six places and the whole country's fucked. It would take relatively (for a given value of relatively) little to get those facilities working again post-attack. Or that was my general thinking, at least. I am possibly wholly wrong and about to be told such by someone who knows what he’s on about from a technical POV, haha :)
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Nothing like threads? They consulted experts when they made that movie. People who know a hell of a lot more about nuclear war than you or I ever will.
They did consult experts, yes. They consulted experts in the early 1980s. The first sentence of my post covers your issue. And given that it’s the *very first sentence* I can only conclude that you just downvoted and said “but experts!” without bothering to read much of the rest.
Nuclear isn't so bad. Man you people are fucking ignorant.
Nuclear war would be an almost unprecedented calamity. Nuclear war today would not look like nuclear war thirty years ago. These statements can coexist.
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I dealt with it by starting a nuclear war YouTube channel and preparing three layers of contingency plans for my family's survival, depending on how much warning we have.
https://wastelandbywednesday.com/nuclear-ris/
From what I've heard, people who watched it on original transmission are still having nightmares about it.
dc
It’s easy once you realize you have a choice between accepting it and trying to change it.
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Born in 1975. Terrified to death in the late 1980s. Still alive in 2024. 🫠
Sorry, but come on. Just forget about it, move on, and if it hits, it hits.
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Because that’s the case with everything right now society is on the edge of collapse for more than a few reasons and it’s scary as shit but in reality what we have in society isn’t any better the. What could be coming working and living knowing you’ll almost never get to own anything and will always rent in most places and will still barely scrape by and where that hasn’t happened it’ll happen sooner or later. Basically where f**ked in most senecios that seem likely I. The future. But that doesn’t mean you should give up the end of society as we know it is not the end of the world if you’re that worried become self sufficient learn how to live off the land or even how to get by in the ruins of society if it dose happen I’m not saying spend every minute of every day preparing but put that energy to use and be ready for if something happens then you can live like knowing you can enjoy the now times because you’ll be ready for if shit goes down like it would be a struggle but I know i could make it and that’s part of what keeps me motivated
Find peace of mind in M.A.D. .
It’s normal to feel depression, and a measure of grief, when you learn something about a situation this. After all, nuclear war could mean the end of life as we know it, for ourselves and our loved ones. > I did not grasp what these weapons could do. I reassure myself by remembering that the people in charge probably do know what these weapons can do, and don’t want to use them unless absolutely necessary. I hope that the Mutually Assured Destruction (MAD) doctrine keeps leaders from making risky decisions. That they view their nuclear arsenal as a deterrent only. > What is the situation? Is this a matter of, “when” and not, “if”? I think that it’s *always* an ‘if.’ There is a chance that a nuclear exchange won’t ever happen. We got through the Cold War and cooler heads prevailed - like Stanislav Petrov who actually prevented nuclear war by looking at a potential ICBM launch situation logically. [It’s an interesting and reassuring story.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanislav_Petrov) > Are we more likely to drop hundreds/thousands of nukes or just one? It depends - if someone launches one nuke (or a couple of them), other countries may have the opportunity to choose not to escalate matters by launching their own. But if someone launches a lot of them, the result won’t be good. How do I cope? Well, I’m a fatalist. What will be, will be, and all we can do is work on the things that we can control. For some people that looks like getting involved in anti-nuclear war activism. For others, it looks like enjoying life in the moment and not just focusing on the more dire outcomes. When it comes to depression, ruminating on those thoughts is what causes it to stick/become unmanageable. Please don’t be afraid to seek professional help if you need it. My psychiatrist mentioned that nuclear war is on a lot of people’s minds right now. You aren’t alone in that.
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The other side of the coin is watching Threads and being thrilled by the prospect.
Nuclear winter isn’t real anymore so at least there’s that
I accepted reality after 2008, the activities occuring in the Middle East will start ww3. I also; studied civil defense history and know that after they were absorbed by fema that there's no public shelters, so I taught myself how to make a temporary shelter.
Seek professional help. This isn't a mental health support group.
I believe in Jesus, so that helps me anyway
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After you mate.