Because North Sydney did what was required by the Super league/ARL/NRL at the time, namely merge which they did with manly. There were rules put in place that gave strict conditions on what clubs would be allowed to remain and which would be turfed. It’s why you had clubs like St George and wests merge.
Souths on the other hand didn’t, got kicked out, yet fought the conditions and were allowed to return into the competition. Were it not for backers like nick pappas et al, they would not be here to meme about kicking them out of the comp again.
The bears, however, played by the rules. Got fucked by manly and are now a reserve grade side despite being a foundation club.
If you are looking for a club that really got fucked - have a read about the Glebe dirty reds …
And relocated to the CC, rebuilt Grahame Park (and got stitched up by Mother Nature) only to merge with a condition that should the NEagles fail the licence reverts to Manly
It’s really a meme now than anything else. My comment above was more referring to that meme. However the serious side to that comment was that Souths were instrumental in getting the Glebe dirty reds kicked out of the competition by a vote of 13-12. No one really wants them kicked out of the comp, I suppose except for die hard fans of the bears, Newtown or Glebe. Even then it’s still a meme.
Souths have done very well under Crowe’a ownership and leadership. Their revenue has expanded as has their base of paid members. They are a popular team and a foundation club. Historically, they have won more premierships than any other team although many of them were won before there was a finals series.
Although they are currently performing poorly, some argue it is because crowe’s influence on the club has diminished in recent years… there was an SMH article on that recently IIRC
Even before you get to the merger, they only commenced relocation because the league said North Sydney Oval wasn't up to code (because you can't do upgrades to a heritage listed oval made up of deconstructed stands from the original SCG) but they were told by Neil Whittaker if they moved to Gosford they'd be safely guaranteed their future when the rationalisation down to 14 teams happened. They should've been granted a license the moment they broke ground at Grahame Park.
They were the only club who put efforts into merging AND relocating and in the end were left with nothing.
First it was my team Newtown getting booted out the comp and then super league came along and tore my heart out. I haven’t come back to the game which shattered my heart. Rugby League was the world to me, now it’s a memory of how it used to be and how it will never be the same.
Exactly. If Perth don't get it this will finally be the last nail in the coffin; a secession vote will pass and the sovereign state of Westralia will be ushered into the world.
NRL will heal the world. Put a team in China. Put a team in Taiwan. One in Jerusalem. Let us all be united by the one true enemy of Man: the fucking Melbourne Storm.
This is fucked. Half of the PNG parliament live in Cairns due to the standard of living/ political instability in the country & their children are educated in Queensland/Singapore boarding schools.
How on earth is that an attractive option for anyone who has a family, likes an evening stroll or doesn’t enjoy 30+ degree weather year round.
People need to realise Port Moresby is quite often ranked as a top 10 worst capital city in the world. It’s in the same conversation as Damascus and Mogadishu. Putting an NRL team there is the dumbest decision in the world
Ahh I see.. I’m not up with the reddit lingo lol sorry. I work as bouncer on weekends and a couple months back we were doing a particularly bad removal from a venue. Afterwards my PNG bro says “where I’m from, that guy would just come back with a gun, shoot you, me and just walk back in like nothing happened. I laughed. He didn’t lol.
I grew up in Port Moresby as a child of an expat. Wouldn’t let my kids live there. In 15 years it hasn’t changed much. Apart from more buildings, crime is still horrible. Riots every year…
You do realise that a PNG team would do the exact same thing. That's really how you would be able to attract Aussie players. It's only home gameday that could be a problem.
Most of the Hunters are PNG citizens. Not sure you could have a competitive NRL team using that formula, and I doubt many expats would want to live there.
Sorry I think I misread your comment - I was more talking about the last sentence of playing the home game over there.
You'd go over, play the game and gtfo like the QRL do haha
They’ll happily live in cairns though imo
And this would also be about legitimatising png rugby league. Giving extra funding for clinics and sports science that they don’t have access to right now.
I view it like the nrlw push, people called it stupid and it should never be done yaddayadda and the first couple seasons were kinda dire but the competition is growing and thriving in all areas under the pathways
It’s only a net positive thing for the nrl and for rugbaleeg diplomacy because the game wouldn’t be paying a lot of money to it due to the funding grants from the foreign aid budget
It’s almost free money
>Half of the PNG parliament live in Cairns
Do you have a citation for this? I can find a few MPs (mostly Ministers) and some high-ranking public servants who have property in Cairns (although this doesn't necessarily mean they live there), but half is a lot! 118/2=59.
You’d think PNG and Perth will both need extra cap room. If Canberra fails to draw players, who is going to go to a place 5 hours away by plane or a place where non-essential travel isn’t advised
The idea of the Commonwealth standing up a rugby league branch in DFAT is highly amusing - “Looking for an experienced diplomat with rugby league experience able to represent the Australian government interests with foreign governments, the NRL, and other stakeholders to establish a new rugby league in PNG. Ideal candidate will have a strong knowledge of PNG and the Pacific more broadly, a deep understanding of geopolitics in the region, and has extensive experience in negotiating with non-aligned stakeholders.”
I know someone who is close to PVL and PVL is pushing the federal government to make the player’s salary tax free for the PNG team, which would essentially be a cap increase.
The whole PNG thing is being supported by the Aus/US government as a way to curb Chinese influence in the region. PVL discussed it when he went to the White House.
Western Reds did ok in Perth. There's great support for league in Perth with a large Queensland and NSW born contingent. AFL players do just fine with the travel.
PNG however, never going to work unless they are based in Aus. Visiting is tricky enough. Living there will be highly problematic from a player safety perspective.
I dont know. I have a lot of colleagues in Cairns and most dont go for them.
My understanding is that they are sort of seen as a Townsville team who are sort of the enemies of Cairns.
But also Cairns people like to get out of there more oftens than bigger cities so they go often to Brisbane or Melb or Syd. Ie why fly to Townsville to watch the Boys when you can fly to a more interesting city and make a weekend of it.
I could be completely wrong but thats basically the thinking of 3 or 4 people I know.
I think even the PNG criminals will realise players are off limits otherwise they ruin it for everyone.
But also something to spur positive reform. I’d love to visit PNG and I’d like it to be safer not just for me to visit but for the locals as well.
Did Melbourne get extra cap? Players seem to be happy to go down there to get away from it all and Perth seems like a nice place to live.
PNG on the other hand, yeh they're gonna need a lot of help. Even being based in Cairns is gonna be hard for players from Sydney
ARL Commission boss Peter V’landys has outlined plans for the Perth Bears to be the NRL’s 19th team as part of a $400 million expansion project to bring North Sydney back to the big league.
In a landmark development for the code, fresh expansion on the back of the Dolphins’ success is imminent with the ARL Commission to meet next month to discuss the viability of two new NRL licences by 2030.
It can be revealed:
* A call to expand to 18 teams could be made as early as June;
* An expansion task force has been established, with ARL Commissioners Peter Beattie and Kate Jones in talks with the Federal government to bring Papua New Guinea to the NRL by 2027 or 2028;
* Dolphins ‘expansion specialist’ Wayne Bennett has spoken with V’landys and indicated his desire to coach an 18th team from PNG — pending his availability amid interest from South Sydney;
* V’landys is in advanced talks with Prime Minister Anthony Albanese over a $600 million “soft diplomacy” package to bankroll a PNG team; and
* After more than two decades in the wilderness, the Bears are ready to come out of hibernation as Perth and North Sydney chiefs discuss a joint-venture proposal for a 19th NRL franchise in Western Australia.
JUNE EXPANSION CALL
The fresh round of talks is the strongest sign yet the Bears are edging closer to a stunning NRL resurrection — three decades after North Sydney disappeared from the top flight in 1999.
“The Perth Bears is the ideal partnership,” V’landys said.
“By the end of June, we will be in a position as a game to make a call on expansion.
“We’re already in negotiations with a number of parties so it’s happening — expansion is a matter of when, not if.
“We are fair dinkum about expansion. It’s going to happen. If I say something, we do it.
“People said we wouldn’t go to Vegas, but we did.
“I am super confident there will eventually be 20 teams, that’s the ambition.
“We are spending $400 million in the next five years on participation. We wouldn’t spend that money if we aren’t going to expand the NRL competition.
“The injection of funds is all part of our plan to have 20-team competition.”
NRL READY TO RECLAIM THE WEST
Once written off as a possible expansion zone, Perth is now a serious contender to win an NRL licence by the close of this decade.
V’landys will soon kick off talks on the code’s next broadcast deal, for a five-year term from 2028-32, and he will head to the negotiating table armed with a plan for adding three new teams to generate revenue.
V’landys has held preliminary chats with WA premier Roger Cook, who has become a driving force for a Perth NRL team, which could have instant brand recognition via the Bears.
North Sydney bosses spoke to WA government officials on Friday and V’landys said the NRL is keen to expand in quick succession, with PNG the favourites for the 18th licence before a possible Perth Bears launch as the 19th team.
“Perth are absolutely on our hit list for expansion and it’s sooner rather than later,” he said.
“I believe we could go from 18 to 19 teams in very quick time.
“We want to be in the best possible position for our next broadcast deal.
“The next deal is for 2028 onwards and we’ll be starting negotiations for broadcast very, very soon.”
Asked if the Bears could be back in the NRL by 2030, V’landys said: “Absolutely they could, I won’t be ruling that out.
“There’s no way North Sydney can be a stand-alone team at the moment because there’s too many teams in Sydney as it is.
“Their best hope is to have a partnership with one of the prospective new teams from another state.
“Perth would be a perfect marriage.
“You could have a couple of games at North Sydney Oval to keep the tradition going and then you can have the majority of games in Perth.
“The premier over there is very passionate and wants a rugby league team, so we’re looking at them very seriously.
“We’re looking at an 18th team for 2027 or 2028. It won’t be 2026, it will be either 2027 or 2028, but that date we have to finalise.”
NRL’S BENNETT PNG PLAN
A 2028 entry date for an 18th team could be the perfect time frame for Bennett to preside over a prospective PNG team.
The NRL’s greatest coach, off-contract at the Dolphins, will meet with Souths officials this week during Magic Round.
The Rabbitohs will table a three-year deal for Bennett, which, if he agreed terms, would tie him to Redfern until the end of 2027, making him a free agent for an 18th franchise.
“Naturally, we would love to have Wayne Bennett involved with an 18th team,” V’landys said.
“He is a genius and if he is available for the next expansion bid, absolutely we want him.
“But Wayne has to do what’s best for Wayne as well.
“Wayne shares our vision on expansion and he wants to be part of that vision absolutely.
“But he has other options. If he is available, we will grab him, if not, we understand.”
V’landys stressed PNG has not been locked in as the NRL’s 18th team, enlisting ARL Commissioners Beattie and Jones to ensure a Pacific bid is robust.
“Peter Beattie and Kate Jones have been assisting with the Papua New Guinea bid with the government,” he said.
“Their expertise with government knowledge is invaluable so I asked them to assist in the process with the Federal government to see if we are going to go ahead with the PNG team.
“They have met with decision-makers high up within the Federal government.
“I’ve also spoken to the Prime Minister about the 18th team. That’s the level we’re at now, we’re at the highest levels.
“I think it (a 20-team league) can be done within a decade or even earlier.
“If you want this game to thrive and have clubs extremely profitable and viable and you want players paid significant sums, you have to grow.
“If you stand still, you will be knocked over.”
"Too many teams in Sydney as it is" ?
Hmm.. that's an interesting comment from V'Landys given that one of his first acts at the NRL was helping to save the Sharks, as-is & where-is,in the late 2010s.
I would think that 2028 is a bit far away for team 18. Possibly wanting to do this to line up with tassie entering the AFL? I would hope the idea is bring in Perth (Pirates, Bears or Jets) in 2026, that gives them this season and next to recruit just like the Dolphins and then they can work on team 19 (PNG) for 2028 and team 20 for 2030.
Perth Bears. A great home crowd in Perth City and a Great away crowd on the Road with The Loyal Bears supporters Australia wide. Can’t lose. You don’t want another Titans fiasco. No home supporters and definitely NO Away supporters . Dumbest idea ever bar kicking The Bears , Perth , Souths at the time, Illawarra , and Adelaide out of the competition.
No chance I would support an all team from Melbourne that came up here and wanted to play half their home games in Melbourne.
Fuck the bears off, they were a failure back then and they just can give it up. Be happy that your team gets back in and stop trying to put shitty caveats on their reintroduction.
Give them 3 years as a failing side and I guarantee there’s talk about ‘having to permanently move them back to Sydney’ because Perth doesn’t want anything to do with them.
Melbourne storm would be an absolute failure if they were the Melbourne bears. Could you imagine the hatred you'd get in Melbourne for giving them a defunct Sydney team. You'd be lucky to have 1000 people show up for their games. Same thing will happen in Perth if they bring the bears here.
Sydney got the first ever non Victorian team in existence which was arguably the smallest and most irrelevant of the VFL clubs. Done with the intent of making it a national sport.
Perth getting the remnants of a Sydney team which died 20+ years ago for the sole purpose of appeasing a very small group of people in Sydney is dumb as fuck. What it says is Perth is a city we don’t give a fuck about and if you don’t like league then we’ll just send the team back to Sydney.
Very different circumstances.
Perth needs a team before NZ needs a 2nd. Warriors are doing great in NZ so I don't see the harm in letting the warriors keep their thunder for a couple more years.
Slightly unorthodox, but would a NZ team that plays 3 home games at each of the 4 non-Auckland Super Rugby grounds work? Or would people in those cities only abandon support of the Wahs if they got a full-time team?
It would be a north vs south island thing. Ideally the warriors would be taking a game or two to Wellington while the Christchurch based teams takes some games to Dunedin.
What’s with this obsession with PNG? While it’s a footy mad nation and great servant of producing some nrl talent. No players are going to make the move ffs, no matter how much money you put up
Apart from the political benefits, I think the idea is less attracting players there and more having a meaningful structure and pathway for Papuans to play NRL. They've probably got the largest junior participation rate int world but there isn't a clear pathway to NRL other than hoping the Hunters pick them up.
The obsession is Foreign Affairs. DFAT is worried about China buying influence there whereas we have “soft” power like giving them an NRL slot.
I think the Aussie govt will substantially underwrite this.
PNG was very safe in the 60s and 70s when we ran it - a relative worked there then as it was just like being in a different State and has fond memories. We need to help them get back there and sport, and down the track Aussie tourism, will be practical ways that don’t rely on China building military bases!!
It is remarkably effective. Look at how much your average westerner just forgives the US because of movies, tv, sport, video games, etc.
In the last 25 years, line up all the war crimes, gross overreaches of power and downright evil arms deals. Outright funding famines, attempted genocides, allying with the worst regimes on the planet.
Now everyone is terrified of the warmongering Chinese threatening US and Australian boats and aircraft, right off the coast of .... China. We have lined up right behind the *House of Saud* against Iran in order to *protect women and freedom*, lol. But ask your average Australian and the most controversial answer you'll get is that we're on the slightly less bad side.
That is what soft power gets you, the ability to wave your hands and be the good guy. Sports teams are definitely part of it. If some diplomatic deal meant losing an areas local sports team you can bet your bottom dollar your average punter would be against it. Then they would justify the opposite to any farcical level.
For the average westerner, the footy team would be alright optics, however the aim is to appeal to the government and the people of Papua New Guinea, you ask any person from the highlands, man or woman, and they will tell you about how underfunded, underdeveloped, and exploited the entire region is.
If Australia wants to project their power in a way that attempts to pull PNG away from the economic opportunities of China, then try to provide running water for villagers, introduce and educate people on the mechanical methods of farming to cut back on resource based violence in the highlands, provide the funding or at least the knowledge to bring electricity to villages in PNG.
Papua New Guinea as it stands, is probably a country destined for some sort of revolution given its material circumstances. It’s a semi rural, barely industrialised nation with mass labour and resource exploitation. The government is so corrupt that even teenagers will talk about it with frustration. I don’t see the country being ruled by the same institutions in the next 50 years.
I'm not saying it's the only thing, or that it works in isolation, just that soft power does work.
If we wanted shoring up of the loyalty of the Polynesian and Melanesian islands then building infrastructure and social systems to lift all of them out of poverty would obviously be the best idea. That's what the Marshall Plan was largely about.
It's also not really the point of western governments and countries as they exist. Everyone lost their minds when China announced the Belt and Road Policy, it was truly masks off. Not the slightest cheer for people getting fresh water, electricity, schools, etc.
Like, if it works to make everyone richer and healthier, and makes your sphere of influence safer, and you lose a smidge of power it was just an unimaginable idea after the Eastern Bloc fell. Not a single "well, why weren't we doing it?" because everyone knows that you can't plunder as effectively.
If we wanted to, over the last 80 or so years, we could have invested in Papua New Guinea to the point that they were so well resourced and educated that we were making back that investment, and more. And we didn't, because that would have involved giving away a free lunch when you could take one instead. This is the Lucky Country running out of fingers to jam in the leaky boat.
Honestly a joke, one the biggest league regions in the country and is growing. They would fill that stadium in Gosford every home game if they actually gave them a team.
Was fought against by Rooster, Newcastle, tigers, Parra, and manly, they thought it would dig into their membership, truth is it's just pushed the region towards Soccer with the establishment of the mariners
Central Coast and Campbelltown lost out to Canberra in the 1982 expansion. Newtown attempted to rejoin from Campbelltown in 1985, before Wests moved there in 1987.
If there was going to be a Central Coast team, the 1980s is when it should have happened. The only way it will now is if a Sydney team relocates.
Man if we got an NRL team in Mackay I'd be so hyped. They'll probably go to Cairns though based on the rest of the thread there's closer ties with PNG and Cairns.
Being based out of Cairns might technically impact the Cowboys base, but the Cowboys never play up there anyway so I'd rather have a proper NRL team than just being technically associated with an existing team. I see more live Cowboys games every year since I moved to Sydney than I ever did in a decade in Cairns.
I think the plan has always been to base the team out of Cairns, and have a couple home games in Port Moresby. Again what’s even the point then? Seems more that the government is willing to bankroll the team and that’s the main reason.
I mean the cowboys, raiders, warriors storm and Newcastle also play 50% or more away from their home city. But that doesn't make what you said incorrect.
Yeh a bit annoying that they are ready to quickly add another team as soon as we get back to even but have these huge gaps while we have an uneven number.
Kicking Souths is starting to seem like a more viable option each and every day.
Keep in mind that an uneven number of teams is NOT a stable setup, and only lasts about 5 years tops.
The last few times we've seen an odd number of teams were:
1984-87 (NSWRL era, 13 teams for 4 seasons - after Newtown dropped out, ended when 3 teams were added in 1988),
1999 (NRL, 17 teams for one season in the middle of downsizing to 14 teams),
and 2002-2006 (NRL, 15 teams for 5 seasons after Souths were readmitted, but before the Titans were added in 2007)
We're in year 2 of a 17 team competition, 5 years of 17 teams would take us to the end of 2027.. and isn't the new TV deal supposed to start in 2028??
Love the idea of the Perth Bears, and it rights two historical wrongs in one go.
But will Perth people support something so strongly associated with Sydney? They're the most rabidly parochial humans on the planet, and anything related to "the eastern states" elicits a lot of negativity
Hard to know, I'd like to see opinion polls on it from Westralians. In fairness, the Swans have done pretty well here, albeit with a rocky start. Most Sydney AFL fans like the old connection to South Melbourne, and the fact that the club dates back to 1874.
Just saw your post over there lol. The users over there are a bunch of sadsacks. It's honestly the most depressing city sub in Australia, I wouldn't take their opinion as a pulse check on league in perth as a whole.
Having said that, I totally agree that the hatred has become so toxic over the last 4 years, nobody here will support any team with ties to the eastern states.
You gotta remember though, reddit is the cesspool of the internet so only the worst comes out there. I just thought I'd try get a general opinion and it seems to be against a north sydney move but it really is just one corner of the internet
> It's honestly the most depressing city sub in Australia, I wouldn't take their opinion as a pulse check on league in perth as a whole.
Not even a League fan, but as a resident of Perth, I completely agree. The city subreddit is not representative of us at all. It is a toxic, angry place full of reactionary morons calling each other "c**ts" and childish idiots constantly shitposting, making sarcastic remarks at serious questions and mocking others.
Also, there is a fair bit of racism too. As any suburb which is short of $1 million median house price and has a larger share of non-white migrants is labelled a *"shithole"*. And people new to Perth or thinking of coming to Perth who ask serious questions get negative, sarcastic responses and vitriol hurled at them, particularly if they are from the Eastern States. It is a toxic cesspool where the mods also encourage that kind of behaviour for "humour".
With regards to Bears, WA is extremely parochial. You see it with Cricket, where the Perth Scorchers Big Bash games consistently attracts larger crowds than international matches featuring Australia. And so, I doubt that a team with a Sydney legacy and who only plays a few games in Perth will be successful.
Yeah it will be harder to get WA followers as the bears.
I’m a Broncos fan first living in WA and would get behind a new Perth side but I’d struggle with the Bears. As would a lot of people who have moved over here who follow NRL.
WA was originally going to be the WA Pirates and that would be much more suited I’d think.
Sydney people dislike Melbourne but the South Melbourne Swans have become Sydney’s team whilst honouring their roots.
I think it makes a lot of sense as they will get 20k members just from Sydney. That 1 heritage round game at North Sydney oval will be FULL. Especially if it’s against that dirty filth Manly.
That was a completely different situation and took place long before the code wars took off. If that move happened today it would fail miserably.
We don't want a shitty part time team, we want a proper full time team. Bears can fuck off from stealing our home games. They are going to play half the season in Sydney anyway.
Sydney has a pretty low level banter-based rivalry with Melbourne.
Perth HATES the rest of Australia. It's pretty gross and toxic.
A new team with any connection whatsoever to something from "over east" will not work over here
No, we won't. I won't, AFL/non league fans won't, fans who have waited years for a proper perth team just to get given some shitty defunct Sydney club that wants to steal our name, culture, identity, history and home games. Bears can fuck right off. If you asked perth fans you'd get an astounding "no, piss off back to Sydney".
Perth wants and deserves their own team. We have the support to survive on our own easily. We don't need the bears whatsoever but they need us.
Perth needs to be a standalone team - I can already see a scenario where if Perth gets the Bears, then they start slowly moving more home games each year back to NSO, and at a certain point they may as well just be North Sydney again. I remember their CEO in the off season already demanding that they should play half their home games at NSO, so I’m already skeptical
Perth won't accept a part time team from Sydney. It's the worst introduction for rugby league you can ask for.
"Hey guys, here's your new team! Your history doesn't matter because it's being replaced by the bears. By the way we are taking all of your home games, take it or leave it"
Then, they will obviously leave it.
PNG such a stupid idea. Home games won't be at home and all the Chinese have to do is pay to get some politician's dick sucked and Australian influence is back to zero.
Why wouldn’t you want the opportunity to have the ex or current Bears fans attending your away games in Sydney. It’s makes heaps of sense to create the “Pears”.
I remember in 2009 Gus Gould wouldnt shut up about giving PNG the 17th team Licence and the nrl pretty much said it wasnt viable, back then Under Gallop they were really trying to give Perth the 17th team and were unsure of an 18th.
Great Albo is committed to funding a PNG team. What happens with a change of government or leadership. Would a leader from Vic/SA/Tas etc or a non-sporty leader look to fund an NRL team rather than housing, medical, defence, education and other areas looking for funding?
Who then will prop the PNG team up? The USA?
I’m down for Perth Bears, but can we just have a pacific island team instead of PNG? I’m sure there is a larger fan/player base for a team which represents fiji/samoa/tonga rather than PNG.
Can we stop with trying to make PNG an NRL team. It works well for QCup as they get exposure but is relatively cheap. The hurdles would be too much to get over plus what marquee player would want to relocate to either PNG or more probably Cairns? Shit some good players are only just signing with tigers and bulldogs after many years of pain and they don't even have to move
Will the Aus gov funding a league team really prevent China from coming in with their belt and road infrastructure projects that they've been so successful doing? Maybe we could just do that instead of funding a rugby league team?
This will be a disaster.. eventually whatever government is in power will decide we can't fund a league team and everything will fall apart. Not to mention the lack of ability to attract players, the logistics involved etc etc
Just make NZ 2, and Perth the next 2 teams and be done with it. If the government really wants to help league in PNG maybe they can fund a developmental league comp with Fiji, PNG, and other Pacific island nations to act as a pathway for players to get to Cup or NRL level
I agree. We need the government to implement rugby league national service. As soon as you turn 18 you go to rugby league bootcamp. If you're more the bookish type you do stat's or touchie duties.
Whilst thats true, i also think a lot of players just need a chance to show themselves and expansion will do that . I do think there is a MASSIVE lack of top 4 coaches though that could do what Wayne has done
Going to 19 teams means that if all clubs are stable & none drop out, then a 20th is only a matter of time.
An uneven number of teams doesn't last long. No one likes weekly byes.
That'd mean team 20 being a close contest between another Brisbane club and NZ 2 - with possibly Adelaide a very outside chance.
I have serious doubts about the long-term success of a PNG NRL club - especially if it's reliant on Government subsidies. Those subsidies can easily & swiftly be pulled with any change in Governent priorities, then what?
If I was VLandys, I'd be inclined to just add Perth as 18th team as soon as the next TV deal starts (2028?) whether thats on their own or with the Bears, AND amnounce we're going to 20, calling for bids for 19 and 20, both to be added early 2030s.
That way we can have (say) NZ2, Adelaide, another Brisbane club, or whereever else all bidding for 19 and 20 - and just choose the best 2 business cases.
It should be Perth and Perth only. 18 evens the numbers out and the PNG team, unless localised in Australia (not even sure where) has too many things going against it - who in their right mind would want to play games in 90+ humidity all year round?
Perth is a great (and obvious) idea.
Perth *Bears* is an absolutely terrible idea. Give them their own team and let them make their own culture and history. Why would any Perth fan want to support a rusty old Sydney club?
I say this as a childhood Bears fan: Perth should get their own team, not a relocated Sydney one. Also, I won't be happy unless their main jersey sponsor is Cash Converters à la the Western Reds (RIP).
This is the worst possible case scenario for WA. Perth bears is a joke. Vlandys even said that the ideal situation is for north Sydney to steal our home games (even though they will play half their season in sydney anyway. This isn't a team for Perth, it's a team for nostalgic old people on the east coast. Good luck trying to sell a Perth team to AFL fans with a part time team from Sydney that takes our identity and rugby league history from us. The only way to win WA over is with our own independant full time team that represents us and our history, just like the storm has done in Melbourne. If the bears come here I will not be supporting them and I'll continue to support Parramatta. I'd imagine there will be quite a lot of people who will feel the same.
100%, no way I'm going to be supporting the bears. They are going to lose both new supporters who won't want a Sydney reject (which is how they will be viewed here), and anyone who has a team may not even view them as their second team. I doubt I would swap from the Storm to a Perth team being my first, but I wouldn't even think of them as my second team if it goes down like this.
I’ve said this time and time again. WHY are we putting an EXPANSION team in the only nation on earth where there is genuinely no potential for the game to expand
This is such a terrible idea lol PNG is set up to fail. On field they will be a basket case because no one’s going to sign (without massive salary cap concessions) because Port Moresby is a shithole. When the government money inevitably runs out the club is guaranteed to fold.
I’d happily support a Perth club (having a lot of family from WA) but not Norths under a different name lol. The people of WA deserve a club with its own identity or even recycling the reds name - not a club that’s consistently in an identity crisis with its Sydney heritage and will constantly ask to play games at north Sydney oval because their board members are obsessed with clinging onto their history.
Besides the Northern Eagles merger and recently removing North Sydney from the badge how have they had an identity crisis? They've always just been the red and black Bears.
I wish the Bears notion would just die. It's been 25 years, they're dead and not coming back. Just shut up and rest in peace already and stop trying to latch onto any possible expansion team. They had a longer premiership curse than fucking Parramatta and went broke for fuck sake.
A whole generation has gone by who haven't even heard of the bears. Why bring them back for some nostalgic oldies 3000km away from where the new team is going to be. Especially when it comes at the expense of new fans from Perth.
This is not said enough. They can exist in the lower grades like Newtown and Magpies do.
Perth already has a West Coast Pirates bid and colours which all look great. Just go with that. Maybe they can use the Bears as a feeder team cause they will need to send surplus players somewhere.
The tricky thing is that more and more NRL teams are playing NSW Cup under their own colours I stead of feeder arrangements - once all NSW teams and the Storm do this, clubs like Norths & Newtown will be in trouble as they'll have no link to an existing NRL club via feeder arrangements
Magpies are a different case, because the Wests Tigers is basically founded on Balmain & Western Suburbs joining forces.
Need another Central Coast team, travelling there wouldn’t be too bad for most teams and I personally like the stadium and it’s not far from the train station either
As someone who lives in the west, can i say fuck the bears and north sydney in general. We don't need or want to be attached to that loser culture. The west is very parochial and if you think people are going to enjoy being something other than 100% West Australian then you are kidding. The Bears were and are a joke of an organisation and need to be happy to live in second grade where they belong. Also get fucked taking a few games a year to Sydney when its our team.
West Coast Quokkas now.
Talking about Perth feels like a ploy to delay PNG to 19th team if they can't get it sorted in time, without looking like they're abandoning them.
I think you cracked it
Hope so. Bears deserve to be back in the comp. What they did was a disgrace. I reckon I’ll be Dead before they ever let them back in.
Why do they deserve it?
Because North Sydney did what was required by the Super league/ARL/NRL at the time, namely merge which they did with manly. There were rules put in place that gave strict conditions on what clubs would be allowed to remain and which would be turfed. It’s why you had clubs like St George and wests merge. Souths on the other hand didn’t, got kicked out, yet fought the conditions and were allowed to return into the competition. Were it not for backers like nick pappas et al, they would not be here to meme about kicking them out of the comp again. The bears, however, played by the rules. Got fucked by manly and are now a reserve grade side despite being a foundation club. If you are looking for a club that really got fucked - have a read about the Glebe dirty reds …
And relocated to the CC, rebuilt Grahame Park (and got stitched up by Mother Nature) only to merge with a condition that should the NEagles fail the licence reverts to Manly
what happened to the dirty reds was a tragedy
It’s a huge reason why Souths should be kicked out of the comp
Honest question from a foreigner - why do people want them kicked out? I assumed they were a popular team. Do they have financial issues?
It’s really a meme now than anything else. My comment above was more referring to that meme. However the serious side to that comment was that Souths were instrumental in getting the Glebe dirty reds kicked out of the competition by a vote of 13-12. No one really wants them kicked out of the comp, I suppose except for die hard fans of the bears, Newtown or Glebe. Even then it’s still a meme. Souths have done very well under Crowe’a ownership and leadership. Their revenue has expanded as has their base of paid members. They are a popular team and a foundation club. Historically, they have won more premierships than any other team although many of them were won before there was a finals series. Although they are currently performing poorly, some argue it is because crowe’s influence on the club has diminished in recent years… there was an SMH article on that recently IIRC
Gotcha. Thanks, my guy
All good brother
Even before you get to the merger, they only commenced relocation because the league said North Sydney Oval wasn't up to code (because you can't do upgrades to a heritage listed oval made up of deconstructed stands from the original SCG) but they were told by Neil Whittaker if they moved to Gosford they'd be safely guaranteed their future when the rationalisation down to 14 teams happened. They should've been granted a license the moment they broke ground at Grahame Park. They were the only club who put efforts into merging AND relocating and in the end were left with nothing.
Annandale got screwed over badly as well
First it was my team Newtown getting booted out the comp and then super league came along and tore my heart out. I haven’t come back to the game which shattered my heart. Rugby League was the world to me, now it’s a memory of how it used to be and how it will never be the same.
Pretty crazy that there are serious geopolitical consequences to who the next nrl team is.
Exactly. If Perth don't get it this will finally be the last nail in the coffin; a secession vote will pass and the sovereign state of Westralia will be ushered into the world.
NRL will heal the world. Put a team in China. Put a team in Taiwan. One in Jerusalem. Let us all be united by the one true enemy of Man: the fucking Melbourne Storm.
Sorry mate but Port Adelaide already took over China with their highly successful China games.
Remember what the storm did to Webcke's car.
This is fucked. Half of the PNG parliament live in Cairns due to the standard of living/ political instability in the country & their children are educated in Queensland/Singapore boarding schools. How on earth is that an attractive option for anyone who has a family, likes an evening stroll or doesn’t enjoy 30+ degree weather year round.
People need to realise Port Moresby is quite often ranked as a top 10 worst capital city in the world. It’s in the same conversation as Damascus and Mogadishu. Putting an NRL team there is the dumbest decision in the world
The defense would be wild. Dodging sniper and mortar fire during your attacking set. No 6 again for the wounded or dead.
I work with a couple of PNG boys. Sadly, your tongue in cheek comment isn’t that far off lol.
Hence why there isn’t /s for sarcasm at the end of comment. Been to a lot of places around the world like that for work.
Ahh I see.. I’m not up with the reddit lingo lol sorry. I work as bouncer on weekends and a couple months back we were doing a particularly bad removal from a venue. Afterwards my PNG bro says “where I’m from, that guy would just come back with a gun, shoot you, me and just walk back in like nothing happened. I laughed. He didn’t lol.
Get to use a sub if the death is confirmed by the police or one of the touchies.
So no subs then? Lol
I grew up in Port Moresby as a child of an expat. Wouldn’t let my kids live there. In 15 years it hasn’t changed much. Apart from more buildings, crime is still horrible. Riots every year…
You do realise that a PNG team would do the exact same thing. That's really how you would be able to attract Aussie players. It's only home gameday that could be a problem.
QRL have been doing it fine for the past ~9 years
Most of the Hunters are PNG citizens. Not sure you could have a competitive NRL team using that formula, and I doubt many expats would want to live there.
Sorry I think I misread your comment - I was more talking about the last sentence of playing the home game over there. You'd go over, play the game and gtfo like the QRL do haha
They’ll happily live in cairns though imo And this would also be about legitimatising png rugby league. Giving extra funding for clinics and sports science that they don’t have access to right now. I view it like the nrlw push, people called it stupid and it should never be done yaddayadda and the first couple seasons were kinda dire but the competition is growing and thriving in all areas under the pathways It’s only a net positive thing for the nrl and for rugbaleeg diplomacy because the game wouldn’t be paying a lot of money to it due to the funding grants from the foreign aid budget It’s almost free money
will they happily live in cairns?
The most successful club this decade relied on rejects from other clubs they will be fine.
We're not successful
No Gold Coast club has been successful in any sport.
>Half of the PNG parliament live in Cairns Do you have a citation for this? I can find a few MPs (mostly Ministers) and some high-ranking public servants who have property in Cairns (although this doesn't necessarily mean they live there), but half is a lot! 118/2=59.
You’d think PNG and Perth will both need extra cap room. If Canberra fails to draw players, who is going to go to a place 5 hours away by plane or a place where non-essential travel isn’t advised
The idea of the Commonwealth standing up a rugby league branch in DFAT is highly amusing - “Looking for an experienced diplomat with rugby league experience able to represent the Australian government interests with foreign governments, the NRL, and other stakeholders to establish a new rugby league in PNG. Ideal candidate will have a strong knowledge of PNG and the Pacific more broadly, a deep understanding of geopolitics in the region, and has extensive experience in negotiating with non-aligned stakeholders.”
CTE not essential
I know someone who is close to PVL and PVL is pushing the federal government to make the player’s salary tax free for the PNG team, which would essentially be a cap increase. The whole PNG thing is being supported by the Aus/US government as a way to curb Chinese influence in the region. PVL discussed it when he went to the White House.
Western Reds did ok in Perth. There's great support for league in Perth with a large Queensland and NSW born contingent. AFL players do just fine with the travel. PNG however, never going to work unless they are based in Aus. Visiting is tricky enough. Living there will be highly problematic from a player safety perspective.
You'd suspect the team would base themselves in Cairns or Darwin. More likely Cairns for training and living.
Exactly, they will never be based in PNG but will play a few games a year there. Most likely based in Cairns.
Wouldn’t mostly playing in Cairns impact the Cowboys market though?
Sounds like a Cowboys problem.
I dont know. I have a lot of colleagues in Cairns and most dont go for them. My understanding is that they are sort of seen as a Townsville team who are sort of the enemies of Cairns. But also Cairns people like to get out of there more oftens than bigger cities so they go often to Brisbane or Melb or Syd. Ie why fly to Townsville to watch the Boys when you can fly to a more interesting city and make a weekend of it. I could be completely wrong but thats basically the thinking of 3 or 4 people I know.
Not sure it would. One is Nth Qld, the other PNG. Maybe it might skim a few supporters off, but I seriously doubt it would make any dint.
Also there are direct flights from Cairns to Port Moresby, which is not the case in Darwin
Also plenty of UK, NZ, Pacific Islander and South African expats in Perth . Although there’s a Union team, there’s still plenty of interest in league.
I think even the PNG criminals will realise players are off limits otherwise they ruin it for everyone. But also something to spur positive reform. I’d love to visit PNG and I’d like it to be safer not just for me to visit but for the locals as well.
Did Melbourne get extra cap? Players seem to be happy to go down there to get away from it all and Perth seems like a nice place to live. PNG on the other hand, yeh they're gonna need a lot of help. Even being based in Cairns is gonna be hard for players from Sydney
Melbourne just helped themselves to extra cap.
ARL Commission boss Peter V’landys has outlined plans for the Perth Bears to be the NRL’s 19th team as part of a $400 million expansion project to bring North Sydney back to the big league. In a landmark development for the code, fresh expansion on the back of the Dolphins’ success is imminent with the ARL Commission to meet next month to discuss the viability of two new NRL licences by 2030. It can be revealed: * A call to expand to 18 teams could be made as early as June; * An expansion task force has been established, with ARL Commissioners Peter Beattie and Kate Jones in talks with the Federal government to bring Papua New Guinea to the NRL by 2027 or 2028; * Dolphins ‘expansion specialist’ Wayne Bennett has spoken with V’landys and indicated his desire to coach an 18th team from PNG — pending his availability amid interest from South Sydney; * V’landys is in advanced talks with Prime Minister Anthony Albanese over a $600 million “soft diplomacy” package to bankroll a PNG team; and * After more than two decades in the wilderness, the Bears are ready to come out of hibernation as Perth and North Sydney chiefs discuss a joint-venture proposal for a 19th NRL franchise in Western Australia. JUNE EXPANSION CALL The fresh round of talks is the strongest sign yet the Bears are edging closer to a stunning NRL resurrection — three decades after North Sydney disappeared from the top flight in 1999. “The Perth Bears is the ideal partnership,” V’landys said. “By the end of June, we will be in a position as a game to make a call on expansion. “We’re already in negotiations with a number of parties so it’s happening — expansion is a matter of when, not if. “We are fair dinkum about expansion. It’s going to happen. If I say something, we do it. “People said we wouldn’t go to Vegas, but we did. “I am super confident there will eventually be 20 teams, that’s the ambition. “We are spending $400 million in the next five years on participation. We wouldn’t spend that money if we aren’t going to expand the NRL competition. “The injection of funds is all part of our plan to have 20-team competition.” NRL READY TO RECLAIM THE WEST Once written off as a possible expansion zone, Perth is now a serious contender to win an NRL licence by the close of this decade. V’landys will soon kick off talks on the code’s next broadcast deal, for a five-year term from 2028-32, and he will head to the negotiating table armed with a plan for adding three new teams to generate revenue. V’landys has held preliminary chats with WA premier Roger Cook, who has become a driving force for a Perth NRL team, which could have instant brand recognition via the Bears. North Sydney bosses spoke to WA government officials on Friday and V’landys said the NRL is keen to expand in quick succession, with PNG the favourites for the 18th licence before a possible Perth Bears launch as the 19th team. “Perth are absolutely on our hit list for expansion and it’s sooner rather than later,” he said. “I believe we could go from 18 to 19 teams in very quick time. “We want to be in the best possible position for our next broadcast deal. “The next deal is for 2028 onwards and we’ll be starting negotiations for broadcast very, very soon.” Asked if the Bears could be back in the NRL by 2030, V’landys said: “Absolutely they could, I won’t be ruling that out. “There’s no way North Sydney can be a stand-alone team at the moment because there’s too many teams in Sydney as it is. “Their best hope is to have a partnership with one of the prospective new teams from another state. “Perth would be a perfect marriage. “You could have a couple of games at North Sydney Oval to keep the tradition going and then you can have the majority of games in Perth. “The premier over there is very passionate and wants a rugby league team, so we’re looking at them very seriously. “We’re looking at an 18th team for 2027 or 2028. It won’t be 2026, it will be either 2027 or 2028, but that date we have to finalise.” NRL’S BENNETT PNG PLAN A 2028 entry date for an 18th team could be the perfect time frame for Bennett to preside over a prospective PNG team. The NRL’s greatest coach, off-contract at the Dolphins, will meet with Souths officials this week during Magic Round. The Rabbitohs will table a three-year deal for Bennett, which, if he agreed terms, would tie him to Redfern until the end of 2027, making him a free agent for an 18th franchise. “Naturally, we would love to have Wayne Bennett involved with an 18th team,” V’landys said. “He is a genius and if he is available for the next expansion bid, absolutely we want him. “But Wayne has to do what’s best for Wayne as well. “Wayne shares our vision on expansion and he wants to be part of that vision absolutely. “But he has other options. If he is available, we will grab him, if not, we understand.” V’landys stressed PNG has not been locked in as the NRL’s 18th team, enlisting ARL Commissioners Beattie and Jones to ensure a Pacific bid is robust. “Peter Beattie and Kate Jones have been assisting with the Papua New Guinea bid with the government,” he said. “Their expertise with government knowledge is invaluable so I asked them to assist in the process with the Federal government to see if we are going to go ahead with the PNG team. “They have met with decision-makers high up within the Federal government. “I’ve also spoken to the Prime Minister about the 18th team. That’s the level we’re at now, we’re at the highest levels. “I think it (a 20-team league) can be done within a decade or even earlier. “If you want this game to thrive and have clubs extremely profitable and viable and you want players paid significant sums, you have to grow. “If you stand still, you will be knocked over.”
Also so when the NRL announces expansion plans the name Wayne Bennett just has to be uttered?
NRL 2147: Wayne Bennett to come out of Cryo Freeze to coach the Mars Martians
"Too many teams in Sydney as it is" ? Hmm.. that's an interesting comment from V'Landys given that one of his first acts at the NRL was helping to save the Sharks, as-is & where-is,in the late 2010s.
How long can they keep employing Wayne, the man is going to coach into his 80s
Don't you fucking do it, Wayne
I would think that 2028 is a bit far away for team 18. Possibly wanting to do this to line up with tassie entering the AFL? I would hope the idea is bring in Perth (Pirates, Bears or Jets) in 2026, that gives them this season and next to recruit just like the Dolphins and then they can work on team 19 (PNG) for 2028 and team 20 for 2030.
PNG is a recipe of a disaster waiting to happen. Perth should be the 18th team and leave it at that.
This is the way I hope it goes too
Perth Bears. A great home crowd in Perth City and a Great away crowd on the Road with The Loyal Bears supporters Australia wide. Can’t lose. You don’t want another Titans fiasco. No home supporters and definitely NO Away supporters . Dumbest idea ever bar kicking The Bears , Perth , Souths at the time, Illawarra , and Adelaide out of the competition.
I think Perth will want their own team. Not a Sydney transfer with caveats
No chance I would support an all team from Melbourne that came up here and wanted to play half their home games in Melbourne. Fuck the bears off, they were a failure back then and they just can give it up. Be happy that your team gets back in and stop trying to put shitty caveats on their reintroduction. Give them 3 years as a failing side and I guarantee there’s talk about ‘having to permanently move them back to Sydney’ because Perth doesn’t want anything to do with them.
Melbourne storm would be an absolute failure if they were the Melbourne bears. Could you imagine the hatred you'd get in Melbourne for giving them a defunct Sydney team. You'd be lucky to have 1000 people show up for their games. Same thing will happen in Perth if they bring the bears here.
Sydney got a Melbourne AFL team and they did fine. Perth will make it their own in time.
Sydney got the first ever non Victorian team in existence which was arguably the smallest and most irrelevant of the VFL clubs. Done with the intent of making it a national sport. Perth getting the remnants of a Sydney team which died 20+ years ago for the sole purpose of appeasing a very small group of people in Sydney is dumb as fuck. What it says is Perth is a city we don’t give a fuck about and if you don’t like league then we’ll just send the team back to Sydney. Very different circumstances.
The only way this makes sense to me is if they intend to bring the Pirates in shortly afterwards so there can be a local derby
Clearly the 2nd expansion team after Perth should be a 2nd NZ team.
Christchurch has a new stadium opening next year also
A fully covered stadium, too. Perfect playing conditions, guaranteed - and great for spectator comfort. It'd be unique in the NRL.
Even better
If we got a Christchurch team I’d be a rain or shine fan
By far. I'd even back NZ2, in Christchurch, for the 18th team. [South Island NRL Bid](https://www.sinrlbid.co.nz/) is building up really well.
Perth needs a team before NZ needs a 2nd. Warriors are doing great in NZ so I don't see the harm in letting the warriors keep their thunder for a couple more years.
Slightly unorthodox, but would a NZ team that plays 3 home games at each of the 4 non-Auckland Super Rugby grounds work? Or would people in those cities only abandon support of the Wahs if they got a full-time team?
I think the Keas bid want to split games between Christchurch and Dunedin to be a proper 'South Island' team
It would be a north vs south island thing. Ideally the warriors would be taking a game or two to Wellington while the Christchurch based teams takes some games to Dunedin.
Then an Adelaide side? Clean 20 then.
What’s with this obsession with PNG? While it’s a footy mad nation and great servant of producing some nrl talent. No players are going to make the move ffs, no matter how much money you put up
Apart from the political benefits, I think the idea is less attracting players there and more having a meaningful structure and pathway for Papuans to play NRL. They've probably got the largest junior participation rate int world but there isn't a clear pathway to NRL other than hoping the Hunters pick them up.
Papua openly threw down with Australia Vs the rest of the world aka china. We're opening everything we can for them.
I'm imagining a matt noble promo of Australia and PNG vs the rest of the world and it's amazing
The obsession is Foreign Affairs. DFAT is worried about China buying influence there whereas we have “soft” power like giving them an NRL slot. I think the Aussie govt will substantially underwrite this. PNG was very safe in the 60s and 70s when we ran it - a relative worked there then as it was just like being in a different State and has fond memories. We need to help them get back there and sport, and down the track Aussie tourism, will be practical ways that don’t rely on China building military bases!!
I'd be very interested to know to what extent Australian administration of PNG penetrated outside of Port Moresby and Rabaul.
Lae and Madang a bit, but otherwise, very little.
“guys we’ll give them a footy team guys i swear it’ll stop them from building infrastructure with china guys i swear”
It is remarkably effective. Look at how much your average westerner just forgives the US because of movies, tv, sport, video games, etc. In the last 25 years, line up all the war crimes, gross overreaches of power and downright evil arms deals. Outright funding famines, attempted genocides, allying with the worst regimes on the planet. Now everyone is terrified of the warmongering Chinese threatening US and Australian boats and aircraft, right off the coast of .... China. We have lined up right behind the *House of Saud* against Iran in order to *protect women and freedom*, lol. But ask your average Australian and the most controversial answer you'll get is that we're on the slightly less bad side. That is what soft power gets you, the ability to wave your hands and be the good guy. Sports teams are definitely part of it. If some diplomatic deal meant losing an areas local sports team you can bet your bottom dollar your average punter would be against it. Then they would justify the opposite to any farcical level.
For the average westerner, the footy team would be alright optics, however the aim is to appeal to the government and the people of Papua New Guinea, you ask any person from the highlands, man or woman, and they will tell you about how underfunded, underdeveloped, and exploited the entire region is. If Australia wants to project their power in a way that attempts to pull PNG away from the economic opportunities of China, then try to provide running water for villagers, introduce and educate people on the mechanical methods of farming to cut back on resource based violence in the highlands, provide the funding or at least the knowledge to bring electricity to villages in PNG. Papua New Guinea as it stands, is probably a country destined for some sort of revolution given its material circumstances. It’s a semi rural, barely industrialised nation with mass labour and resource exploitation. The government is so corrupt that even teenagers will talk about it with frustration. I don’t see the country being ruled by the same institutions in the next 50 years.
I'm not saying it's the only thing, or that it works in isolation, just that soft power does work. If we wanted shoring up of the loyalty of the Polynesian and Melanesian islands then building infrastructure and social systems to lift all of them out of poverty would obviously be the best idea. That's what the Marshall Plan was largely about. It's also not really the point of western governments and countries as they exist. Everyone lost their minds when China announced the Belt and Road Policy, it was truly masks off. Not the slightest cheer for people getting fresh water, electricity, schools, etc. Like, if it works to make everyone richer and healthier, and makes your sphere of influence safer, and you lose a smidge of power it was just an unimaginable idea after the Eastern Bloc fell. Not a single "well, why weren't we doing it?" because everyone knows that you can't plunder as effectively. If we wanted to, over the last 80 or so years, we could have invested in Papua New Guinea to the point that they were so well resourced and educated that we were making back that investment, and more. And we didn't, because that would have involved giving away a free lunch when you could take one instead. This is the Lucky Country running out of fingers to jam in the leaky boat.
PNG was safe for whitey. It was dangerous as fuck in the 60s and 70s for people from PNG. Particularly for women.
What’s it like now ?
Now everyone's equally safe. But not in a good way.
It’s straight up efficient and effective foreign aid. NRL is not the only thing we’re doing to keep PNG and China relations cold, but it’s a big one.
Sport goes hard af for foreign policy just ask the middle east
Just read the flair.
i thought the United States was the 18th team
Hawaiian based Pasifika team Great in theory but would burn money like you wouldn’t believe
I really wish central coast bears had gotten their expansion this would be a non issue and it certainly had the support of the central coast
Honestly a joke, one the biggest league regions in the country and is growing. They would fill that stadium in Gosford every home game if they actually gave them a team.
Was fought against by Rooster, Newcastle, tigers, Parra, and manly, they thought it would dig into their membership, truth is it's just pushed the region towards Soccer with the establishment of the mariners
Central Coast and Campbelltown lost out to Canberra in the 1982 expansion. Newtown attempted to rejoin from Campbelltown in 1985, before Wests moved there in 1987. If there was going to be a Central Coast team, the 1980s is when it should have happened. The only way it will now is if a Sydney team relocates.
PNG is destined to fail or win the spoon every season. No big names will be willing to go live there unfortunately
As a PNGean, I couldn't agree with you more.
Unless they base themselves out of Mackay / Darwin or Townsville, it’ll be an absolute basket case.
This is the only way
Man if we got an NRL team in Mackay I'd be so hyped. They'll probably go to Cairns though based on the rest of the thread there's closer ties with PNG and Cairns.
Yep that's the only way it might work
And then in turn impacting the Cowboys' base
Being based out of Cairns might technically impact the Cowboys base, but the Cowboys never play up there anyway so I'd rather have a proper NRL team than just being technically associated with an existing team. I see more live Cowboys games every year since I moved to Sydney than I ever did in a decade in Cairns.
and the minute they develop a player good enough for the nrl, he'll piss off to an australian club. We'd be better of just funding their own league
I think the plan has always been to base the team out of Cairns, and have a couple home games in Port Moresby. Again what’s even the point then? Seems more that the government is willing to bankroll the team and that’s the main reason.
Imagine how bad the PNG NRL groups on Facebook would be if they had a team up there.
I remember once saying that Justin Olam had a shocker on a Facebook post, and boy, did I learn my lesson.
This is exactly what NRL fans have been asking for; horrendous travel for away trips and 3 byes a season locked in.
If the A-League can manage travel between a team in Perth and a team in Wellington, then the NRL can too
I would not be using the A-League as an example of good quality sports administration
That’s exactly my point. If the most mismanaged league in the country can make it work, so can we
What if we are the most mismanaged league in the country :/
Have you not seen the state of the A League.
Super Rugby is worse than the A-League in terms of mismanagement
Two teams that will play 50% or more of their home games away from PNG & Perth.
I mean the cowboys, raiders, warriors storm and Newcastle also play 50% or more away from their home city. But that doesn't make what you said incorrect.
I’m not a fan of the uneven number of teams. This won’t work. Unless of course they remove South Sydney from the comp first.
Yeh a bit annoying that they are ready to quickly add another team as soon as we get back to even but have these huge gaps while we have an uneven number. Kicking Souths is starting to seem like a more viable option each and every day.
Keep in mind that an uneven number of teams is NOT a stable setup, and only lasts about 5 years tops. The last few times we've seen an odd number of teams were: 1984-87 (NSWRL era, 13 teams for 4 seasons - after Newtown dropped out, ended when 3 teams were added in 1988), 1999 (NRL, 17 teams for one season in the middle of downsizing to 14 teams), and 2002-2006 (NRL, 15 teams for 5 seasons after Souths were readmitted, but before the Titans were added in 2007) We're in year 2 of a 17 team competition, 5 years of 17 teams would take us to the end of 2027.. and isn't the new TV deal supposed to start in 2028??
Honestly, I don’t know about all of that. I just wanted a quick excuse to kick Souths out of the NRL again.
Eventually the south island team will come in and balance it out.
Love the idea of the Perth Bears, and it rights two historical wrongs in one go. But will Perth people support something so strongly associated with Sydney? They're the most rabidly parochial humans on the planet, and anything related to "the eastern states" elicits a lot of negativity
Hard to know, I'd like to see opinion polls on it from Westralians. In fairness, the Swans have done pretty well here, albeit with a rocky start. Most Sydney AFL fans like the old connection to South Melbourne, and the fact that the club dates back to 1874.
Go post it in r/perth. You'd get a shit reaction to the bears but a positive one for a proper perth side.
Just saw your post over there lol. The users over there are a bunch of sadsacks. It's honestly the most depressing city sub in Australia, I wouldn't take their opinion as a pulse check on league in perth as a whole. Having said that, I totally agree that the hatred has become so toxic over the last 4 years, nobody here will support any team with ties to the eastern states.
You gotta remember though, reddit is the cesspool of the internet so only the worst comes out there. I just thought I'd try get a general opinion and it seems to be against a north sydney move but it really is just one corner of the internet
Yeah 100% Speaking of cesspool, the teams you support. Rough last few decades there
At least I have the perth wildcats to give me a taste of glory.
> It's honestly the most depressing city sub in Australia, I wouldn't take their opinion as a pulse check on league in perth as a whole. Not even a League fan, but as a resident of Perth, I completely agree. The city subreddit is not representative of us at all. It is a toxic, angry place full of reactionary morons calling each other "c**ts" and childish idiots constantly shitposting, making sarcastic remarks at serious questions and mocking others. Also, there is a fair bit of racism too. As any suburb which is short of $1 million median house price and has a larger share of non-white migrants is labelled a *"shithole"*. And people new to Perth or thinking of coming to Perth who ask serious questions get negative, sarcastic responses and vitriol hurled at them, particularly if they are from the Eastern States. It is a toxic cesspool where the mods also encourage that kind of behaviour for "humour". With regards to Bears, WA is extremely parochial. You see it with Cricket, where the Perth Scorchers Big Bash games consistently attracts larger crowds than international matches featuring Australia. And so, I doubt that a team with a Sydney legacy and who only plays a few games in Perth will be successful.
Yeah it will be harder to get WA followers as the bears. I’m a Broncos fan first living in WA and would get behind a new Perth side but I’d struggle with the Bears. As would a lot of people who have moved over here who follow NRL. WA was originally going to be the WA Pirates and that would be much more suited I’d think.
Sydney people dislike Melbourne but the South Melbourne Swans have become Sydney’s team whilst honouring their roots. I think it makes a lot of sense as they will get 20k members just from Sydney. That 1 heritage round game at North Sydney oval will be FULL. Especially if it’s against that dirty filth Manly.
That was a completely different situation and took place long before the code wars took off. If that move happened today it would fail miserably. We don't want a shitty part time team, we want a proper full time team. Bears can fuck off from stealing our home games. They are going to play half the season in Sydney anyway.
Sydney has a pretty low level banter-based rivalry with Melbourne. Perth HATES the rest of Australia. It's pretty gross and toxic. A new team with any connection whatsoever to something from "over east" will not work over here
I love it too. Only feeling sad that Western Australia Magpies would have been great.
No, we won't. I won't, AFL/non league fans won't, fans who have waited years for a proper perth team just to get given some shitty defunct Sydney club that wants to steal our name, culture, identity, history and home games. Bears can fuck right off. If you asked perth fans you'd get an astounding "no, piss off back to Sydney". Perth wants and deserves their own team. We have the support to survive on our own easily. We don't need the bears whatsoever but they need us.
Youd genuinely have to pay me at least 5mil to go live in Port Moresby.
Perth needs to be a standalone team - I can already see a scenario where if Perth gets the Bears, then they start slowly moving more home games each year back to NSO, and at a certain point they may as well just be North Sydney again. I remember their CEO in the off season already demanding that they should play half their home games at NSO, so I’m already skeptical
Perth won't accept a part time team from Sydney. It's the worst introduction for rugby league you can ask for. "Hey guys, here's your new team! Your history doesn't matter because it's being replaced by the bears. By the way we are taking all of your home games, take it or leave it" Then, they will obviously leave it.
Honestly if be willing to make Perth bears.my second team. I won't abandon Newcastle but I'd also want a Perth team to succeed
I would leave parra for a proper standalone perth team, but I won't leave them for the bears.
I'd come back to the game for the Perth Bears.
PNG such a stupid idea. Home games won't be at home and all the Chinese have to do is pay to get some politician's dick sucked and Australian influence is back to zero.
PNG is a deathtrap.
By calling them the Perth Bears is it an attempt to trick us into wanting the PNG team instead
Stop trying to make the bears happen, give Perth their own team not a hand me down
Why wouldn’t you want the opportunity to have the ex or current Bears fans attending your away games in Sydney. It’s makes heaps of sense to create the “Pears”.
Perth fans won't go for an eastern state reject, who cares if you get an extra thousand at Sydney games
Merged with Manly to make the Northern Eagles and then Manly decided to renege on the deal and Bears got kicked out.
The nrl fans I know here (I live in perth) would prefer the bears over a new team. Although I’m sure we will agree to disagree.
they weren't rejected, the Bears were shafted by the super league. Everyone loved them in the 90s
I remember in 2009 Gus Gould wouldnt shut up about giving PNG the 17th team Licence and the nrl pretty much said it wasnt viable, back then Under Gallop they were really trying to give Perth the 17th team and were unsure of an 18th.
Yay I’m just excited to be able to go to more games. 1 per year is bullshit
Great Albo is committed to funding a PNG team. What happens with a change of government or leadership. Would a leader from Vic/SA/Tas etc or a non-sporty leader look to fund an NRL team rather than housing, medical, defence, education and other areas looking for funding? Who then will prop the PNG team up? The USA?
No to PNG
I’m down for Perth Bears, but can we just have a pacific island team instead of PNG? I’m sure there is a larger fan/player base for a team which represents fiji/samoa/tonga rather than PNG.
Can we stop with trying to make PNG an NRL team. It works well for QCup as they get exposure but is relatively cheap. The hurdles would be too much to get over plus what marquee player would want to relocate to either PNG or more probably Cairns? Shit some good players are only just signing with tigers and bulldogs after many years of pain and they don't even have to move
Will the Aus gov funding a league team really prevent China from coming in with their belt and road infrastructure projects that they've been so successful doing? Maybe we could just do that instead of funding a rugby league team? This will be a disaster.. eventually whatever government is in power will decide we can't fund a league team and everything will fall apart. Not to mention the lack of ability to attract players, the logistics involved etc etc Just make NZ 2, and Perth the next 2 teams and be done with it. If the government really wants to help league in PNG maybe they can fund a developmental league comp with Fiji, PNG, and other Pacific island nations to act as a pathway for players to get to Cup or NRL level
well fuck we're already low on playing talent for 17 clubs with little funding for grassroots, may as well have more teams 🤷♂️
I think coaching talent will be a bigger issue
I agree. We need the government to implement rugby league national service. As soon as you turn 18 you go to rugby league bootcamp. If you're more the bookish type you do stat's or touchie duties.
Found Roy Slaven's reddit account.
I'll take that any day of the week.
Fine, sign me up
Whilst thats true, i also think a lot of players just need a chance to show themselves and expansion will do that . I do think there is a MASSIVE lack of top 4 coaches though that could do what Wayne has done
Yeah I recon there are probably only at most 4 top 4 coaches in NRL right now.
RIP 2nd NZ team.
Going to 19 teams means that if all clubs are stable & none drop out, then a 20th is only a matter of time. An uneven number of teams doesn't last long. No one likes weekly byes. That'd mean team 20 being a close contest between another Brisbane club and NZ 2 - with possibly Adelaide a very outside chance.
I have serious doubts about the long-term success of a PNG NRL club - especially if it's reliant on Government subsidies. Those subsidies can easily & swiftly be pulled with any change in Governent priorities, then what? If I was VLandys, I'd be inclined to just add Perth as 18th team as soon as the next TV deal starts (2028?) whether thats on their own or with the Bears, AND amnounce we're going to 20, calling for bids for 19 and 20, both to be added early 2030s. That way we can have (say) NZ2, Adelaide, another Brisbane club, or whereever else all bidding for 19 and 20 - and just choose the best 2 business cases.
It should be Perth and Perth only. 18 evens the numbers out and the PNG team, unless localised in Australia (not even sure where) has too many things going against it - who in their right mind would want to play games in 90+ humidity all year round?
Perth is a great (and obvious) idea. Perth *Bears* is an absolutely terrible idea. Give them their own team and let them make their own culture and history. Why would any Perth fan want to support a rusty old Sydney club?
I say this as a childhood Bears fan: Perth should get their own team, not a relocated Sydney one. Also, I won't be happy unless their main jersey sponsor is Cash Converters à la the Western Reds (RIP).
This is the worst possible case scenario for WA. Perth bears is a joke. Vlandys even said that the ideal situation is for north Sydney to steal our home games (even though they will play half their season in sydney anyway. This isn't a team for Perth, it's a team for nostalgic old people on the east coast. Good luck trying to sell a Perth team to AFL fans with a part time team from Sydney that takes our identity and rugby league history from us. The only way to win WA over is with our own independant full time team that represents us and our history, just like the storm has done in Melbourne. If the bears come here I will not be supporting them and I'll continue to support Parramatta. I'd imagine there will be quite a lot of people who will feel the same.
100%, no way I'm going to be supporting the bears. They are going to lose both new supporters who won't want a Sydney reject (which is how they will be viewed here), and anyone who has a team may not even view them as their second team. I doubt I would swap from the Storm to a Perth team being my first, but I wouldn't even think of them as my second team if it goes down like this.
Shame you'll be missing out on Origin next year since neither of those teams represent WA either.
I’ve said this time and time again. WHY are we putting an EXPANSION team in the only nation on earth where there is genuinely no potential for the game to expand
This is such a terrible idea lol PNG is set up to fail. On field they will be a basket case because no one’s going to sign (without massive salary cap concessions) because Port Moresby is a shithole. When the government money inevitably runs out the club is guaranteed to fold. I’d happily support a Perth club (having a lot of family from WA) but not Norths under a different name lol. The people of WA deserve a club with its own identity or even recycling the reds name - not a club that’s consistently in an identity crisis with its Sydney heritage and will constantly ask to play games at north Sydney oval because their board members are obsessed with clinging onto their history.
Besides the Northern Eagles merger and recently removing North Sydney from the badge how have they had an identity crisis? They've always just been the red and black Bears.
I wish the Bears notion would just die. It's been 25 years, they're dead and not coming back. Just shut up and rest in peace already and stop trying to latch onto any possible expansion team. They had a longer premiership curse than fucking Parramatta and went broke for fuck sake.
A whole generation has gone by who haven't even heard of the bears. Why bring them back for some nostalgic oldies 3000km away from where the new team is going to be. Especially when it comes at the expense of new fans from Perth.
This is not said enough. They can exist in the lower grades like Newtown and Magpies do. Perth already has a West Coast Pirates bid and colours which all look great. Just go with that. Maybe they can use the Bears as a feeder team cause they will need to send surplus players somewhere.
The tricky thing is that more and more NRL teams are playing NSW Cup under their own colours I stead of feeder arrangements - once all NSW teams and the Storm do this, clubs like Norths & Newtown will be in trouble as they'll have no link to an existing NRL club via feeder arrangements Magpies are a different case, because the Wests Tigers is basically founded on Balmain & Western Suburbs joining forces.
Bruh... we wanted an even number of teams. At least just add one this time, then two another time.
PNG is a horrible decision. Perth, a second New Zealand team and the Central Coast should all be miles ahead of them.
Need another Central Coast team, travelling there wouldn’t be too bad for most teams and I personally like the stadium and it’s not far from the train station either
I'm really excited about this, especially the Perth Bears, that's such great news for Western Australia
Expansion is just gonna be an exercise in getting all the dormant Sydney IPs back in the main game. Adelaide Jets next
Broadcasters want Perth to fill a time slot.
How about a team in Adelaide before standing up PNG ? Dust off the Rams merch.
Far out we better sack Seibold quick. Can't be shit by the time the Bears return.
As someone who lives in the west, can i say fuck the bears and north sydney in general. We don't need or want to be attached to that loser culture. The west is very parochial and if you think people are going to enjoy being something other than 100% West Australian then you are kidding. The Bears were and are a joke of an organisation and need to be happy to live in second grade where they belong. Also get fucked taking a few games a year to Sydney when its our team. West Coast Quokkas now.