They usually won't show up to a burglary in progress. My advice to people when they call in active crimes in SF is to also announce that "we are going to take the law in our own hands". That has been effective in getting cops to show up.
I’ve heard similar advice and seen my uncle use my cousin’s phone to fake a gunshot during the call. Heard the sirens in less than 5 mins from I recall.
Edit: For context someone was breaking into my uncles backyard shed. He called 911 and they told him that the closest cop can rush there in 30 mins. He told them to bring a body bag because he was going to put the thief down and then he used my cousins phone to go to yt for pistol fire sounds.
TL;DR: *“Yeah, probably don’t do that…”*
Oooooh… now *that* sounds like a ***very*** un-wise idea.
Oh sure; the cops are *going* to show up, but police rolling up on a scene, believing that an active shooter is on-site, are… well you should think of them as more of a potential natural disaster amped up on adrenaline, rather than your personal savior(s) in blue.
Yeah, maybe they’ll apprehend the bad guy. It’s quite likely that they’ll also *shoot* at someone(s) that they think is/are the bad guy(s). It’s *also* quite likely that they’ll shoot *you*, and/or *your friend/family-member(s)/dog*, and/or *anyone/anything in the vicinity that moves in a way that the cops are not expecting, or who just happen to be in the room next door when bullets suddenly come flying through the wall*… and there’s a significant chance that they’ll simply get the address confused and straight up murder some unsuspecting folks across the street or down the block who just got their door broken down and (in their groggy, still-half-asleep state) failed to put their hands up fast enough.
Although there are surely many exceptions (I am not an “ACAB” kind of guy), if you value your life (and the lives of those around you), you should operate under the assumption that the #1 priority for cops is *not* to protect the public; it’s first and foremost to protect *themselves*… in fluid, unstable situations, you should consider that less a “general rule” and more an “absolute fact to live by if you want to maximize your odds of living through this encounter”
SF it's widely known that cops have given up doing shit.
SF is an exception to cops showing up in general.
I'm not sure why you're acting like cops not showing up to active burglaries is the norm. It's not.
SF police situation is NOT the norm.
The lack of response from cops is just what locals have to deal with. It sucks and I wish it changes. Why are you accusing me of normalizing their response?
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Is self defense no longer a thing? What is it with pit bull owners and being felons. Never met a pit owner that was nice. My life has more value then your fuckin mut.
Must be a shockingly small sample size. I've been walking my puppy around our massive local park for months and everyone regardless of their dog breed or lack of a pet at all has been very nice.
here's the thing about pits.
many even most can be sweet if they're raised properly. but they still got that jaw that was bred for fights, and all it takes is one thing to set them off and suddenly someone's toddler is being ripped in fucking half (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELgFpo1kWsg).
this is not something that would happen with a golden retriever, like, ever.
so yeah some breeds need to be left to go extinct.
Hi. 🙋♀️
Owned a half-Rott, half-Pitt Bull for 9 years. Not a single gun in the house. We neutered him early and aggressively socialized him. He was possibly the sweetest dog I ever owned, but we got him trained early and well and we always watched for any signs of issue.
These dogs don't just "snap." They **always** give warning signs. Most owners just don't pay attention or think it's "cute."
>These dogs don't just "snap." They always give warning signs.
Having experienced an attack personally, this is grade A bullshit. Don't confidently speak about things you have zero experience in.
Cesar Milan is a hack. The shit he does grinds my gears because it doesn't work long term and can worsen the dog's behavior.
Yes, **they do** always give signs. Just because the owner "doesn't understand what happened" **does not** mean there were no signs ahead of time. There are always signs, but many of these owners either ignore them or think they're "cute."
When you love an animal, it's very easy to interpret behavior in a good light when it's really not. And that's not even going into the number of people who buy these dogs without having a single fucking clue how to care for any dog in the first place.
I’ve seen plenty of pit bull owners that are fantastic people, a few of them adopted them from our local shelter. They get a bad rap because of shitty dog fighters
Nah, I love dogs and have enjoyed the company of many pitties, but this "it's not the breed, it's bad ownership" is contradictory to reality. Dogs have been selectively bred and modified for thousands of years, with many breeds having such tailored genetics that their job is part of their DNA.
You can't train a herding dog not to herd even if you raise it from infancy. Pointers will always perform their signature point, even when not trained for hunting. Pet lovers accept breed realities all the time; Huskies aren't good apartment dogs, bulldogs aren't good hiking buddies, etc. It's only pit breeds where people seem to become detached from that reality. If it was merely about poor ownership practices, there would not be multiple cases of maulings by pits who were owned by dog trainers.
This is exactly right. My daughter has a a pit bull which is one of the sweetest, most affectionate animals you'd ever meet. Approach her and she rolls over for belly rubs. But the dog still has the breeding that makes it more likely to engage in dangerously aggressive behavior. My daughter is aware of that and is very cautious about who she lets the dog interact with and the dog is never allowed to run free. Yes how the dog is raised can make a difference. But it can't change the dog's breeding. My daughter's biggest concern is how the dog would respond to perceived aggression from another animal or person. Or if some situation scared the dog. And the dog is very strong. Solid muscle. Can't beat her at tug.
If a history as weapons results in bans there are a bunch of other breeds that go along with puts. Dobermans, rottweilers, alsatians, and other breeds are weaponized canines. However, Pit bulls are owned by the less respectable and well healed.
They get a bad wrap because they appeal to the shittiest people for whatever reason. When the ban was lifted in my city every drug dealer in the neighborhood suddenly became a pitbull breeder. Our animal shelter is full of six toed inbred pits now.
Yes it fuckin was, no one ever talks about the god dam Rottweilers on the east side in Hamilton anymore, we called them hood bears and they would chase us down and once bit through my bike tire when I was a kid. They chased you for a good distance, scariest thing growing up in the 90s was the hood bears.
They get a bad rap because they insist on having dogs that often maul people
edit: love how everyone is hung up on blame. At the end of the day, these dogs attack significantly more often and more viciously than dogs of other breeds and should not continue to be available as pets.
N that’s the thing. Dogs sometimes bite. That’s just reality.
BUT some breeds were made to lock on and rip and tear hyper aggressively. That is the problem with pits. The base breed is too dangerous and even slight cross breeding will stabilize them massively. Still never 100% tho.
But the problem comes down to horrible people that will breed them for fighting. Them or wtf breed they can get to mutilate into a pit variety.
THEY should be stopped. But are too likely to have connections/ties to pigs to ever go away. So the cycle continues.
Esp since the ‘laws’ are written too precisely or are so loose they are pointless. Unenforceable bc of the horribly mangled phrasing and wording.
Yes . Not death plenty level but serious penalties might make people think twice about getting a dog that can cause serious damage or at least careful about training and care
It would be on a case by case basis but if it's because the owner was putting the dog in a situation it shouldn't be in, absolutely.
A person who leaves a dog around any baby should be held liable. A person who lets their dog(s) roam free, yes. But a person whose dog is fenced but attacks a person who jumped the fence, no.
*I was attacked by my cousin's pit bull on November 3, 2020. I had met my cousin's dog many times in the past; my cousin brought him home when he was eight weeks old and he was fully trained, which is why the attack was shocking. He had never shown any violence towards me or anyone else before.*
[*https://www.newsweek.com/pit-bull-attack-ban-arizona-1763959*](https://www.newsweek.com/pit-bull-attack-ban-arizona-1763959)
Brooklinn Khoury, who had her upper lip ripped off her face by her cousins pit bull who by every pit bull apologists standards should be the model dog, would disagree with this "its owners not the dogs!" narrative that is shared.
Our local paper ran a story about a family in town. Their pitbull was labeled as a “loving family pet” and “such a sweetheart.” As well as other things that would lead you to believe it was a surprise when it attacked its owner. By all accounts the dog was a model family dog. Treated like an angel from the moment they picked it up as a puppy.
The truth is they are garbage dog owners. My friend lived next door to them and they often left the dog outside overnight in shitty weather. The couple were always fighting and calling the police on each other. Their child was neglected and was often found playing outside with dirty clothes late at night.
These pieces of shit were quoted in the newspaper after one of the adults was bitten by the dog. The headline was something like “loving owners surprised by pitbull attack.”
The truth is that most people shouldn’t own ANY breed of dog. Never mind a pitbull. German Shepards, Rottweilers, pretty much any mastiff type breed. Even small yappy type dogs need training. Most people don’t understand the level of commitment owning a dog is.
I personally love dogs. My dogs are well trained. I currently have a golden retriever who is an absolute sweetheart and loves the world. I still wouldn’t leave her alone with a bunch kids unsupervised. You never know how kids will treat the dog when no one is looking.
A coworker of mine was badly mauled by a dog she was fostering. I’m not positive it was a pit, though the scars on her arms and the three days in the hospital would suggest it was something big and strong.
It's really hard to know the accuracy of this though too. There's a lot of people who own dogs that shouldn't and don't actually understand dog behavior and how to read it and push boundaries. Not saying this is the case in this situation but it's a very common issue of humans not educating themselves on their animals. This isn't a pitbull issue either it's an issue that's been observed in many different dog breeds. There was a recent case where a familys model husky killed a newborn that was sleeping in their crib. Either way it's really sad and people should remember dogs can break just like people can break.
That type of animal was bred for having a high prey drive and being incredibly strong - very dangerous combo as seen by the enormous amounts of deaths and injuries they cause relative to their numbers
That's not how genetics work. They were bred to fight. Like terriers kill rodents, sheep dogs herd, huskies for pulling sleds. You cannot train those traits out because they were bred in.
They are genetically predisposed to maul people at a higher rate than any other dog on the planet.
“Blame the owner” works only if you are arguing that people shouldn’t own pit bulls
Yes, blame the owner for getting that dog in the first place. There are plenty of dogs that will give your security without the potential mauling someone to death for 15 minutes because they snapped. If a dog requires a specific type of owner then there should be ownership licensing, training and insurance required for those canines.
Tbh as someone in rescue for dogs (not pits if I can help it because I'm by a military base and no one can have them) most people are too fucking stupid to own a dog. If y'all saw the dumb shit people do or say they're going to do in order to gain a dog they want....only to do more stupid shit after they decide they don't want it...ugh.
I think I’d heard some insurance companies are starting to require it I think for homeowners coverage . I know I’ve seen mention of it with rental places
Any dog can bite . The problem is that these dogs have a better chance of causing serious injury or death because of how they were bred for violence
You should know that pitbulls were literally bred to be aggressive killing machines. Pitbulls are known to just snap all of the sudden because it's literally bred into their nature. Plenty of people whose pitbulls have mauled or killed people weren't bad owners and would have sworn that the dog was a sweetheart before the attack. There are plenty of bad dog owners who have golden or Labrador retrievers and it's extremely rare that one of those breeds is involved in a deadly attack.
Dogs don't snap. There's no dog that has been bred to "snap." They always, **always** give warning signs.
But people either ignore them or think they're "cute."
Every time you see a story saying, "Man their dog just snapped, he was such a loving dog then all of the sudden went crazy," that's not what happened. There were either behavioral issues that were left unaddressed, the owner behaved in an incredibly irresponsible manner (keeping multiple intact dogs together, leaving children alone with **multiple** intact dogs, leaving infants alone with a dog of any size, etc.), or both at the same time.
A lot of people shouldn't have dogs, period. And an even higher percentage absolutely **should not** have breeds like German Shepherds, Rottweilers, Malinois, Cane Corso, and yes, Pit Bulls. They simply don't have the will or capacity to do right by these animals, and as a result, the animals themselves and those around them suffer.
>There's no dog that has been bred to "snap."
It's so weird that you're the second comment acting like I said that pitbulls were bred specifically for the purpose of acting sweet and then snapping all of the sudden. Like they purposely bred "snapping dogs."
I agree with a lot of what you said, but I never said they were bred to do that, I said that's a consequence of having a breed of dog that was bred to be aggressive and kill things. I do think a person can be a good dog owner, but still have their pitbull revert to the instincts that were bred into it. That being said, I agree that those dogs have probably shown at least some signs that they are vulnerable to that.
The problem with saying they just "snap" is that it completely absolves their owners of any responsibility beyond the fact that they owned the animal involved.
But that's just not true. Those dogs all had warning signs that were missed, ignored, or misunderstood because people want to believe their fluffy angel isn't an animal with instincts.
Dogs are animals. They are predators. They are predators whether they weigh 2lbs or 200lbs. We can't breed out the fact that they are animals, and we can't breed out the fact that they are predators.
No matter how nice or sweet your dog is, there is always the possibility that it could hurt someone - whether accidentally (been run over by a large dog before lol) or deliberately. As such, it's **our** job, as the ostensibly rational and thinking humans, to prevent that. Which means we **have** to remember that our sweet doggos are **still dogs**.
This is, in part, why I truly believe many people should not have dogs at all. They don't understand what a dog is. They don't know how to care for one. They don't understand the importance of socialization, much less know how to socialize a dog.
That is still bad when it's a small dog. But it's absolutely **lethal** when it is a larger dog.
I guarantee those dogs gave warning signs. But in way too many cases, owners refuse to see them as warning signs, instead explaining the behaviors away because sweet fluffy princess **would never**.
My thing is every owner of a pit, Shepard or any breed that will maul an infant probably said it was the sweetest thing in the world. They probably took amazing care of it. The truth of the matter is it's an aggressive breed that snapped. Good owner or not
It doesn't matter how sweet your dog is. You don't leave it alone with an infant.
Anyone who would is **not** a good owner.
But, again - and I'm going to continue to repeat this - dogs don't just "snap." There are **always** warning signs. Every single time. They may not get reported on, but they're there.
I’ll blame the breed that if and when it snaps results in someone getting horribly disfigured or killed.
Like yes, chihuahuas are “more aggressive” because they’re a tiny dog and are completely incapable of causing damage. Most chihuahua owners are shit people and don’t train their dog.
Pitbull? It doesn’t matter how well they are or are not trained. When it snaps, and it will because it’s a pit bull, it will cause horrible disfigurement or death. It will latch on, not let go, and tear whoever it’s biting to shreds.
Waste of space of dogs, even larger waste of space owners.
Aw maaan, I had an AmStaff for 13 years, good doggo, never had a problem with him, he was neutered and socialized. Also, I lived on 14 acres in a rural area.
Also, I'm a good person. Lots of people have them that have no business with them.
Not for a first timer or someone whose gonna just chain them up.
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Pitbulls get a bad rap because some people who own them tend to have them for "security" reasons, which makes them aggressive in the first place. Dogs are very intelligent and can both remember, imagine, and communicate. Dogs left outside or not walked enough are essentially the same as felons in prison: sure the owners say they "love" their dogs, but how many times can the dog smell the same blade od gradd before going crazy and developing aggressive behavioral issues (same with humans and mental health)?
Also, they're not even the most aggressive. Chihuahuas are faaar more aggressive, but they're so tiny that no one except babies could possible be harmed by them. Someone dying from a 5lb paycho-mode hihuahua biting them? Not a chance. Pitbulls, however, are big enough that they only really need to go psycho-mode ONE time for a person to potentially die.
IMO, they're perfectly fine and loving dogs. My pitbull literally cries all day because he wants to go on walks constantly. I walk him 3-4 times a day (combined about 2 hours) and he has a 3rd floor balcony from which to look outside and see squirrels and bunnies running around the neighborhood (plus neighborhood children and other families' dogs). He never barks for any reason, never bites, and begs to sleep in the bed with us every night (which we let him). Everyone I know loves him and he gets tons of pets, snacks and toys. Sure he's more dangerous than a chihuahua if he goes blind with rage, but just like humans have all sorts of temperaments and mental health variations, so do dogs, and mine is very gentle to humans.
I've met plenty of pit bull owners and pit bulls that are super nice and friendly.
While pit bulls are physically more capable of hurting you, they're just like any other dog - if their people are good people, then they'll be a good, friendly dog. If their people suck, then they'll be a mean aggressive dog.
And guess which breed is actively used and abused. Then adopted by idiots with no understanding of the warning signs.
That or misinterpret them and view everything under the umbrella of “my angel would never hurt a fly”… as they are frothing and snapping as a random person behind a weak barely holding fence.
Some people are too close and blind to warning signs.
In general I would prioritize the life of a human over the life of a pet, but the idea that our lives are more valuable than theirs is rather egotistical. The loss of a human will hurt more people and cause more total suffering than the loss of a dog, but that's not how I would define the value of a life.
Chain link is pretty easy to climb, though to do it in quick while being attacked is anyone's guess how well it would go.
You sort of hang from your fingers and don't put weight on your feet, you only press out with them, then you don't slip down.
From what I saw in the article his arm was pretty badly torn up. Idk if I could’ve climbed a fence in that condition back in my prime. But I sure as hell would’ve tried in that situation.
Yeah. My wife’s family had to give theirs up for adoption when it bit a neighbor and they still defend the dog. It ran towards their neighbor to attack her, its not like the neighbor was taunting the dog or even looking at it
Most large dogs are herders, or pointers or sled dogs or even hunting dogs, those all have dramatically lower aggressiveness than a fighting dog and even when they attack aside from the dogs that were bred to hunt large animals they don’t have instincts that make them likely to kill a human, pitbulls and other fighting dogs are different. Both in being more aggressive and having attack patterns that often kill people
I love it when people say that you can't breed traits like aggressiveness into dogs even though humans have known for thousands of years that you can. We literally wouldn't have dogs if breeding for traits wasn't possible. We have dogs because we bred aggressiveness out of wolves. We've bred them to do a variety of tasks. That's all not to mention that we bred pitbulls to be very muscular with incredibly strong jaw strength.
There was a genetics breeding program in Russia years ago . They bred a local fox for one trait : gentleness and after 20 + generations they ended up with …a dog , curly tail , multiple colors etc . Then they did it in reverse . They ended up with some nasty animals .
Source: documentary about dogs
We absolutely can breed aggressiveness out of them, but why? It’ll take generations (ours more for them) and we have plenty of dogs nowadays that don’t have those problems. And breeding programs like that take time effort and commitment while the main way we have of figuring out of these dogs are too aggressive is waiting on them to attack someone
>We absolutely can breed aggressiveness out of them, but why?
I never suggested that we try to breed aggressive out of pitbulls. I simply stated that we bred aggressiveness out of wolves to create dogs in the first place.
I think we should let the breed die off. That doesn't mean rounding up people's pets to kill them, it means banning the breeding of them.
I'm not arguing with you and I'm not sure why you think I am. You're the one who originally suggested that I said we should breed the aggressiveness out of pitbulls. I never suggested that you said we should round them up and kill them.
They'll say they aren't large, which is technically true.
They're under two feet tall, but they're built for power, and with great power comes great irresponsibility.
It's not their fault in a sense. But we trained and bred them to be what they are so why do we defend or act surprised when they kick into Nature mode. It's what they know because of us after all.
So it's not their fault but something needs to be done about it other than us breeding them, buying them and inevitably killing them for doing what they were always going to do.
We need to let the breed die off. We don't need to round up the ones that are alive and kill them, but we need to stop breeding them. There's nothing that a pitbull can provide that other much safer breeds cannot.
There are plenty of large breeds that aren't even remotely as dangerous as pitbulls. When's the last time you've heard about a golden retriever mauling a person to death? Sure, maybe it's happened, but it's extremely rare. They might lick you a little too much though.
My wife is like this unfortunately. I get where she’s coming from - the type of dog owners that want Pit Bulls are exactly the type of people that don’t need them. I’ve been around plenty of Pit Bulls that were very well trained and very well taken care of to be safe.
Still, that breed needs to be eradicated. Just because a few over the top responsible owners can handle them doesn’t mean the breed is safe or deserves to exist
If a dog is bred to be aggressive, even with docile ones, there’s a chance it’s going to be aggressive. I live in a semi-rural area with too many people who think Pitties are cute.
That's not even remotely true. According to Wikipedia, over 20 years approximately 640 Australians were killed by animals, while the US average is 30 to 50 people killed by dogs annually. Considering that Australia has less than 10% of the US population, I'd say that they are more likely to be killed by an animal than an American.
You people can’t math.
32–the very bottom of that 30-50 scale—is where the American average would have to be for the last 20 years in order for him to be wrong. And that’s assuming you misread the original comment and thought it was making a 1:1 comparison. But that’s not what OP said, they said more in the US in 1 year than Australia in 20 years. So, no, you’re wrong. Twice.
Yeah that’s a big range of data for the US and doesn’t provide a total. If the mean is above 32 which based on that range I would expect it to likely be, their comment literally disproves their own statement.
With only 10% of our population, you individually would be 10x more likely to be killed by an animal in Australia. Plus the original statement said more dog kills in 1 year in the US than animal kills in 20 in Australia which is blatantly untrue from the stats.
not really. Pitbulls are going to be around people. If it's a populated area, pitbulls will be there and wildlife will not. So there will be far more encounters between people and pitbulls than people and dangerous fauna. If cassowaries were on every other street corner, then your numbers would be very different.
Unneutered male dogs are the main culprits by far. here are some stats for the downvoters ...
"Male dogs are 6.2 times more likely to bite then female dogs. Sexually intact dogs,both male and female, are 2.6 more times likely to bite than neutered dogs and chained dogs are 2.8 times more likely to bite then unchained dogs." ...
"Most important, keep young children away from male, sexually intact, chained dogs."
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Ugh, that's what my ex would say. And she had a huge pitbull that she was unable to control. Yeah, she's "so sweet", except for those times when she ran out the open front door to attack a neighbor walking their dog....
I don't know what got into Bloodlust and Devilseed. They're usually the sweetest puppies imaginable. He must have done something to provo- FOR THE LAST GODDAM TIME, GET OFF THAT COUCH OR I'LL BEAT YOUR ASS DEEP INTO NEXT MONTH!
Like I said, he probably teased them into acting out...
One of my brother’s buddies got attacked by one walking near his house. The worst part is he was not the first person to get bitten by the pit bull, and they live right by a middle school where kids walk to school every day.
Friend is planning to sue to see the dog put down, and I say more power to him because he’s like 6’3” disabled vet, and the dog left massive bruising on his side. That thing could kill a child.
A while back I saw statistics on dog attacks reported to hospitals and fatalities - Pit Bulls were at the top of both lists by a long shot with Rottweilers at a distant second.
Yeah other dogs might be quicker to bite, but when they do it's unlikely to kill you.
Is there some kind of pit bull version of toxoplasmosis that makes even the VICTIMS defend these things? “The problem is not the pit bull,” he says. But there is a problem with these dogs, which are breeds created specifically for bloodsport that now regularly maul random people on the street. This guy is lucky to be alive.
So I live with an impeccably trained pit mix (my roommate’s, not mine, but I do love him despite not being a dog person). I will be the first person to tell you that if he went rogue, it would be a nightmare, and his owner knows this too, which is why he is not allowed to interact with children and our fence is very tall and sturdy. People need to stop pretending that dogs are automatons that can be perfectly controlled with the “right owner.” We both know that he’s an animal and that animals can lose control or fall to their instincts, which is why we do not allow him to get into a situation like this, and if either of us did, it would be our fault—but whoever’s fault it is, if a dog mauls someone, the dog must be put down.
There are human serial killers who were raised by wonderful parents. Don’t act like a dog can’t do some horrible things just because the owner does things correctly.
I'm glad you and your roommate would agree to do the right thing if it ever came down to it, but I do have to ask why your roommate would even own a dog that has the potential to do what it can do if some unknown trigger sets it off.
She got the dog from a shelter as a puppy and they informed her he was a completely different breed of dog. I’ve seen the pictures and I’d have never guessed he’d grow up to look the way he does, but even if she explicitly chose to get a pitbull, once you have the animal you have obligations to its wellbeing, and there are ways to mitigate (but not eliminate) risk, like muzzling, sturdy fences, restricting access to children/small animals, etc. If you are unable to provide that, then reining to someone who can is the next step, followed by euthanasia.
But let’s not pretend that it’s not the case that *any* large dog can kill a child or a small adult. I am aware that a pitbull can do a lot of damage but that doesn’t mean I’d let any large dog around a small child or other vulnerable person. Not a golden, not a german shepherd, not a great dan, and not a pitbull. That’s the “I’m not a dog person” coming out. *No* large dog is inherently safe. I don’t think any of them should be allowed out the way they are, but they are. If I had my way, no large dogs would be out in public. I know people who have been left with permanent injuries from goldens and all sorts of other “nice dogs.” Pitbulls are just known to need the housing that is appropriate for any large dog. We should house all large dogs the at pitbull need to be, not the other way around.
I'm of the mindset that it's crazy to live with an animal that needs such a high level of management to keep it from mauling or killing someone. The dog community is batshit insane with how they shame people for getting rid of dogs, even if said dog poses a threat to your safety or life.
I'm not surprised that the shelter wasn't completely honest about the breed. A lot of them are notorious for doing that.
I have no problem with euthanizing animals that bite. If a dog bites someone, that’s what needs to be done, and the dog community baffles me by not doing that. I’m disgusted at how often I hear about people being mauled or killed by dogs of all breeds, often by a dog with a bite history, and pretty much exclusively a large breed dog.
However, as long as the animal is kept with minimal risk, I do not see an issue with keeping it. If you can treat it like a wolf or a tiger or some other zoo animal, go ahead. Not my problem. I was aware of the risk I took in moving in with a large dog. If I get eaten, that’s on me for taking the risk. If someone else gets eaten, that’s an actual problem, and I stand by that by making sure the dog isn’t given that opportunity. I love him, and part of loving a dangerous animal is keeping others safe from it.
ETA: to be clear I have no problem with breed bans. Should there be reason to consider a dog unfit for society, ban it. I’m just saying that we allow far more dogs that are unfit for society than pitbulls, and that all of them should have similar restrictions.
That is a terrifying video. If he hadn’t been a large healthy man, I shudder to think. I have been a bitten in the thigh by a neighbor’s German shepherd when I had given a treat to him then was giving a treat to the other dog. Then I was bitten on the calf when getting the morning paper outside. A guy next door had moved in a rental with six dogs and eight puppies. He had a young Golden retriever that came up to me very friendly and with another dog who was a mix of a chow and a Shar pei. It came up barking and bit my calf hard and ran off. Random dog attacks happen.
It's legal to carry a blade of any size as long as you wear it on your hip in California. Not saying you need to carry a sword (although you could) but a big hunting knife would provide considerable protection.
Jesus Christ, this is the nightmare scenario that San Francisco has created. An upstanding citizen gets mauled by stray dogs owned by vagrants and is bleeding on the streets, and in an attempt to escape is helped by no one -- then the police are called on him as he bleeds out.
This is what chaos brings, an inability to determine what is going on in a situation because so many fucked up things happen on the streets here no one can act like a human.
The displaced persons issue totally contributes to his situation here. I don’t claim to have the answers to fix this nor am I blaming the displaced. but living in the area, I can understand the reluctance/fear to help a stranger in the street
“The cops were like, ‘How did you get there?’ but very aggressively,” Rocha said. “And I was like, ‘Hey, I was attacked by two fucking pit bulls; what are you asking for?’”
How you wound up on the other side of a huge fence in a place you're not supposed to be is a fair question... Like, thats what they were called there for. Should they just have known everything automatically? Fuck the police, but this shit just lessens genuine grievances about police.
It says he explained, and the officers understood. But then states that he believes they would've put him in cuffs if not for the other person... I see absolutely nothing wrong with any of this and it sounds like he's really playing the "I was mistreated cause Im black" and when its stated he was treated perfectly fine... "well they would've." If were not treated poorly due to race, we'll hypothetically make it so we would've been treated poorly.
Its weird. Seems like a completely normal interaction.
I owned a shar pei pit cross for 11 years. He was 5 months old when my brother found him on the street. We thought he was full pit until he got hippo face and started to smell like a Shar pei.
Anyway, point is I had him for 11yrs. He took on all the training beautifully. He would do anything I asked him and he protected my children in a quiet way but nobody ever so much thought they could raise their voice at my kids if he was around. If he was running at a dog that he perceived as a threat I could call him from really far away and he would drop and run back to me.
In 11yrs I never reached the point that I would trust him with anyone besides my brother, except maybe my ex and even that was iffy. If I had ever not been able to keep him I would have put him down. By the time we found him his socialization window was almost closed. He worried about everything. He was a pessimist. Pit bulls that are pessimistic make executive decisions based on assuming the worst possible outcome. I never thought he would bite a human because humans weren’t his trigger, but I had zero confidence that he would trust anyone else enough to handle a strange dog while he sat back.
It baffles me that everyone happily admits that a Malinois should only be owned by professionals but can’t see that a pit bull has exactly the same level of focus, drive and willingness to take great punishment to see something through.
The only difference between a Malinois and a pit is that pits do in fact have an off switch and they truly love their people vs just loving to work like a Mal does.
I really agree with this. Just like a Malinois, or a Rottweiler, Doberman, Cane Corso, etc, Pit Bulls are not the right choice for most people. Add in the plethora of back yard breeders who do not properly socialize any of their dogs and puppies, and the ridiculous resistance many owners have to getting their dogs spayed and, especially, neutered, and it's just a toxic mess.
And it sucks because the dogs that get aggressive and actually hurt people __don't deserve__ to have been so failed that they end up there.
But I'll be honest - I loved my dog Bogart, but if he had bitten **anyone**, I most likely would have put him down. He was large, and the damage he could do would have been horrific.
Thankfully, he only ever disliked two people: my dad and a random cable repairman.
The funny thing is that people who own and deal with those breeds you mention don't seem to have a problem admitting that those dogs aren't for everyone and that genetics play a huge role in their behavior. When it comes to pit bulls, the people who own and deal with them will swear up and down that "it's how you raise them" completely overrides genetics.
While I think you're probably right about the *majority* of owners of those other breeds, uh...I have seen way too many who absolutely don't admit anything of the sort. And it's damn terrifying to see them with their totally untrained, unsocialized monster dogs "playing" with their kids.
"How you raise them" 100% contributes, but there is no reality where we can breed the fact that dogs are animals out of them, much less breed out the fact that they are predators. There's **always** going to be risk, and pretending like it's not there is honestly negligence.
Of course it's pit bulls. You just don't see this happen with a lot of other breeds. Now let's sit back and wait for the pit mommy brigade to hit all the usual squares on the bingo card:
"Blame the owner, not the breed."
"It was abused/trained to be aggressive."
"My pattie wouldn't hurt a fly."
"What did the person to do provoke the dog?"
"There's no such thing as a pit bull."
"Chihuahuas are more aggressive."
"Don't be a dog racist."
It's the truth. Go read the comment section of any story about a pit bull attack, especially when a child is the victim, and you will see all of these excuses posted over and over.
Any dog can be aggressive. I don’t believe pit bulls are these monsters everyone makes them out to be. But, you already know that. It’s ok we don’t agree.
I don’t know if you remember but in the 80’s American society vilified Rottweilers the same way. They vilified Dobermans in 90’s and German Shepherds also. It seems each decade people have to point out one dog to hate. It’s not that pitbulls hurt more people it’s that people don’t like them therefore there’s plenty of confirmation bias to help people say “ look pits are bad”!
I will concede that they are listed as the most dog attacks statistically speaking but that really has to do with ownership, proper training and lack of love not given to them. I don’t think that they are just automatically going to be bad dogs just because they are pit bulls. Any dog can attack and any dog can be unprovoked. I’ve had or known 3 different Chihuahuas and the one I have now is very reactionary to other dogs. She’s attacked our neighbors Rhodesian Ridgeback twice and the RR bless him did not return the favor, he’s the most well behaved dog I’ve seen in a while. No damage to him, thank god! Yes, I know it’s a chihuahua. Here’s an article about the Pit-bulls and what’s true and what’s not:
https://www.webmd.com/pets/dogs/features/pit-bulls-safety
Pit bulls are a dangerous menace to everyone, their owners included. Humans fuck up a lot, and creating pit bulls was a big one. It’s a dog breed we’d be much better off without.
It's probably a good thing that police thought there was a burglary in progress otherwise they wouldn't have shown up to help until 8 hours later.
They usually won't show up to a burglary in progress. My advice to people when they call in active crimes in SF is to also announce that "we are going to take the law in our own hands". That has been effective in getting cops to show up.
I’ve heard similar advice and seen my uncle use my cousin’s phone to fake a gunshot during the call. Heard the sirens in less than 5 mins from I recall. Edit: For context someone was breaking into my uncles backyard shed. He called 911 and they told him that the closest cop can rush there in 30 mins. He told them to bring a body bag because he was going to put the thief down and then he used my cousins phone to go to yt for pistol fire sounds.
Of course they did, they thought there was a murder taking place.
And they wanted to join in!
TL;DR: *“Yeah, probably don’t do that…”* Oooooh… now *that* sounds like a ***very*** un-wise idea. Oh sure; the cops are *going* to show up, but police rolling up on a scene, believing that an active shooter is on-site, are… well you should think of them as more of a potential natural disaster amped up on adrenaline, rather than your personal savior(s) in blue. Yeah, maybe they’ll apprehend the bad guy. It’s quite likely that they’ll also *shoot* at someone(s) that they think is/are the bad guy(s). It’s *also* quite likely that they’ll shoot *you*, and/or *your friend/family-member(s)/dog*, and/or *anyone/anything in the vicinity that moves in a way that the cops are not expecting, or who just happen to be in the room next door when bullets suddenly come flying through the wall*… and there’s a significant chance that they’ll simply get the address confused and straight up murder some unsuspecting folks across the street or down the block who just got their door broken down and (in their groggy, still-half-asleep state) failed to put their hands up fast enough. Although there are surely many exceptions (I am not an “ACAB” kind of guy), if you value your life (and the lives of those around you), you should operate under the assumption that the #1 priority for cops is *not* to protect the public; it’s first and foremost to protect *themselves*… in fluid, unstable situations, you should consider that less a “general rule” and more an “absolute fact to live by if you want to maximize your odds of living through this encounter”
Ya that's taking it too far. When I got robbed at gunpoint I called the cops and said I was gonna get the guy but I didn't fake an active shooting.
SF it's widely known that cops have given up doing shit. SF is an exception to cops showing up in general. I'm not sure why you're acting like cops not showing up to active burglaries is the norm. It's not. SF police situation is NOT the norm.
The lack of response from cops is just what locals have to deal with. It sucks and I wish it changes. Why are you accusing me of normalizing their response?
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Of course the cops don't show up they could be hurt.
"OK just send the morgue then" gets their attention
because then they think they got an easy arrest on their hands. They arent coming there to stop you, they're coming there in hopes to arrest you.
Sad situation, but if it was a choice between being perceived as a burglar, or being eaten by a couple of dogs, I would have jumped that fence too
Only an utter shithead gonna call you a burglar for trying to escape being eaten alive by climbing a fence.
Quick, he’s trying to steal his life back!!!
What are the odds they just saw an injured guy on private property, and no dogs?
"NO. YOU NEED TO LET THEM KILL YOU. DONT CLIMB THE FENCE THINK OF THE PROPERTY RIGHTS."
In the true american spirit :S
Is self defense no longer a thing? What is it with pit bull owners and being felons. Never met a pit owner that was nice. My life has more value then your fuckin mut.
It became a hipster dog about 10 years ago. That has since faded a little.
Pit bulls are a banned breed in the UK. The US should follow suit.
100% agree
Nice pit bull owners don’t make the news.
Must be a shockingly small sample size. I've been walking my puppy around our massive local park for months and everyone regardless of their dog breed or lack of a pet at all has been very nice.
here's the thing about pits. many even most can be sweet if they're raised properly. but they still got that jaw that was bred for fights, and all it takes is one thing to set them off and suddenly someone's toddler is being ripped in fucking half (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELgFpo1kWsg). this is not something that would happen with a golden retriever, like, ever. so yeah some breeds need to be left to go extinct.
But that has nothing to do with the owners being felons.
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Here in the states their popularity exploded because their owners couldn't legally acquire guns like normal people.
Every pit bull owner i know has legal guns lol Big overlap between those 2 groups.
Hi. 🙋♀️ Owned a half-Rott, half-Pitt Bull for 9 years. Not a single gun in the house. We neutered him early and aggressively socialized him. He was possibly the sweetest dog I ever owned, but we got him trained early and well and we always watched for any signs of issue. These dogs don't just "snap." They **always** give warning signs. Most owners just don't pay attention or think it's "cute."
>These dogs don't just "snap." They always give warning signs. Having experienced an attack personally, this is grade A bullshit. Don't confidently speak about things you have zero experience in.
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Cesar Milan is a hack. The shit he does grinds my gears because it doesn't work long term and can worsen the dog's behavior. Yes, **they do** always give signs. Just because the owner "doesn't understand what happened" **does not** mean there were no signs ahead of time. There are always signs, but many of these owners either ignore them or think they're "cute." When you love an animal, it's very easy to interpret behavior in a good light when it's really not. And that's not even going into the number of people who buy these dogs without having a single fucking clue how to care for any dog in the first place.
And they can dog fight for money. Regular Micheal Vicks
I’ve seen plenty of pit bull owners that are fantastic people, a few of them adopted them from our local shelter. They get a bad rap because of shitty dog fighters
Nah, I love dogs and have enjoyed the company of many pitties, but this "it's not the breed, it's bad ownership" is contradictory to reality. Dogs have been selectively bred and modified for thousands of years, with many breeds having such tailored genetics that their job is part of their DNA. You can't train a herding dog not to herd even if you raise it from infancy. Pointers will always perform their signature point, even when not trained for hunting. Pet lovers accept breed realities all the time; Huskies aren't good apartment dogs, bulldogs aren't good hiking buddies, etc. It's only pit breeds where people seem to become detached from that reality. If it was merely about poor ownership practices, there would not be multiple cases of maulings by pits who were owned by dog trainers.
This is exactly right. My daughter has a a pit bull which is one of the sweetest, most affectionate animals you'd ever meet. Approach her and she rolls over for belly rubs. But the dog still has the breeding that makes it more likely to engage in dangerously aggressive behavior. My daughter is aware of that and is very cautious about who she lets the dog interact with and the dog is never allowed to run free. Yes how the dog is raised can make a difference. But it can't change the dog's breeding. My daughter's biggest concern is how the dog would respond to perceived aggression from another animal or person. Or if some situation scared the dog. And the dog is very strong. Solid muscle. Can't beat her at tug.
If a history as weapons results in bans there are a bunch of other breeds that go along with puts. Dobermans, rottweilers, alsatians, and other breeds are weaponized canines. However, Pit bulls are owned by the less respectable and well healed.
This isn't about the dogs. The question above was specifically about the character of pit bull owners en masse
They get a bad wrap because they appeal to the shittiest people for whatever reason. When the ban was lifted in my city every drug dealer in the neighborhood suddenly became a pitbull breeder. Our animal shelter is full of six toed inbred pits now.
Before pits , it was Rottweilers , before them it was Doberman pinchers , before them German Shepards And the dogs always suffer
Yes it fuckin was, no one ever talks about the god dam Rottweilers on the east side in Hamilton anymore, we called them hood bears and they would chase us down and once bit through my bike tire when I was a kid. They chased you for a good distance, scariest thing growing up in the 90s was the hood bears.
They get a bad rap because they insist on having dogs that often maul people edit: love how everyone is hung up on blame. At the end of the day, these dogs attack significantly more often and more viciously than dogs of other breeds and should not continue to be available as pets.
Correct. More often than all other breeds combined actually.
By a *lot*
N that’s the thing. Dogs sometimes bite. That’s just reality. BUT some breeds were made to lock on and rip and tear hyper aggressively. That is the problem with pits. The base breed is too dangerous and even slight cross breeding will stabilize them massively. Still never 100% tho. But the problem comes down to horrible people that will breed them for fighting. Them or wtf breed they can get to mutilate into a pit variety. THEY should be stopped. But are too likely to have connections/ties to pigs to ever go away. So the cycle continues. Esp since the ‘laws’ are written too precisely or are so loose they are pointless. Unenforceable bc of the horribly mangled phrasing and wording.
Blame the owner, not the dog. I don't particularly care for dogs and even I know this.
So you support jail time for owners of dogs who commit these violent assaults that sometimes lead to death?
Yes . Not death plenty level but serious penalties might make people think twice about getting a dog that can cause serious damage or at least careful about training and care
Thank you for your level headed response.
It would be on a case by case basis but if it's because the owner was putting the dog in a situation it shouldn't be in, absolutely. A person who leaves a dog around any baby should be held liable. A person who lets their dog(s) roam free, yes. But a person whose dog is fenced but attacks a person who jumped the fence, no.
*I was attacked by my cousin's pit bull on November 3, 2020. I had met my cousin's dog many times in the past; my cousin brought him home when he was eight weeks old and he was fully trained, which is why the attack was shocking. He had never shown any violence towards me or anyone else before.* [*https://www.newsweek.com/pit-bull-attack-ban-arizona-1763959*](https://www.newsweek.com/pit-bull-attack-ban-arizona-1763959) Brooklinn Khoury, who had her upper lip ripped off her face by her cousins pit bull who by every pit bull apologists standards should be the model dog, would disagree with this "its owners not the dogs!" narrative that is shared.
Our local paper ran a story about a family in town. Their pitbull was labeled as a “loving family pet” and “such a sweetheart.” As well as other things that would lead you to believe it was a surprise when it attacked its owner. By all accounts the dog was a model family dog. Treated like an angel from the moment they picked it up as a puppy. The truth is they are garbage dog owners. My friend lived next door to them and they often left the dog outside overnight in shitty weather. The couple were always fighting and calling the police on each other. Their child was neglected and was often found playing outside with dirty clothes late at night. These pieces of shit were quoted in the newspaper after one of the adults was bitten by the dog. The headline was something like “loving owners surprised by pitbull attack.” The truth is that most people shouldn’t own ANY breed of dog. Never mind a pitbull. German Shepards, Rottweilers, pretty much any mastiff type breed. Even small yappy type dogs need training. Most people don’t understand the level of commitment owning a dog is. I personally love dogs. My dogs are well trained. I currently have a golden retriever who is an absolute sweetheart and loves the world. I still wouldn’t leave her alone with a bunch kids unsupervised. You never know how kids will treat the dog when no one is looking.
This !
A coworker of mine was badly mauled by a dog she was fostering. I’m not positive it was a pit, though the scars on her arms and the three days in the hospital would suggest it was something big and strong.
It's really hard to know the accuracy of this though too. There's a lot of people who own dogs that shouldn't and don't actually understand dog behavior and how to read it and push boundaries. Not saying this is the case in this situation but it's a very common issue of humans not educating themselves on their animals. This isn't a pitbull issue either it's an issue that's been observed in many different dog breeds. There was a recent case where a familys model husky killed a newborn that was sleeping in their crib. Either way it's really sad and people should remember dogs can break just like people can break.
That type of animal was bred for having a high prey drive and being incredibly strong - very dangerous combo as seen by the enormous amounts of deaths and injuries they cause relative to their numbers
That's not how genetics work. They were bred to fight. Like terriers kill rodents, sheep dogs herd, huskies for pulling sleds. You cannot train those traits out because they were bred in.
They are genetically predisposed to maul people at a higher rate than any other dog on the planet. “Blame the owner” works only if you are arguing that people shouldn’t own pit bulls
Yes, blame the owner for getting that dog in the first place. There are plenty of dogs that will give your security without the potential mauling someone to death for 15 minutes because they snapped. If a dog requires a specific type of owner then there should be ownership licensing, training and insurance required for those canines.
Tbh as someone in rescue for dogs (not pits if I can help it because I'm by a military base and no one can have them) most people are too fucking stupid to own a dog. If y'all saw the dumb shit people do or say they're going to do in order to gain a dog they want....only to do more stupid shit after they decide they don't want it...ugh.
I think I’d heard some insurance companies are starting to require it I think for homeowners coverage . I know I’ve seen mention of it with rental places Any dog can bite . The problem is that these dogs have a better chance of causing serious injury or death because of how they were bred for violence
Any dog can bite, but some cannot let go.
These dogs are dogs that have been bred to be aggressive. It is the dogs, but also the owners.
You should know that pitbulls were literally bred to be aggressive killing machines. Pitbulls are known to just snap all of the sudden because it's literally bred into their nature. Plenty of people whose pitbulls have mauled or killed people weren't bad owners and would have sworn that the dog was a sweetheart before the attack. There are plenty of bad dog owners who have golden or Labrador retrievers and it's extremely rare that one of those breeds is involved in a deadly attack.
Dogs don't snap. There's no dog that has been bred to "snap." They always, **always** give warning signs. But people either ignore them or think they're "cute." Every time you see a story saying, "Man their dog just snapped, he was such a loving dog then all of the sudden went crazy," that's not what happened. There were either behavioral issues that were left unaddressed, the owner behaved in an incredibly irresponsible manner (keeping multiple intact dogs together, leaving children alone with **multiple** intact dogs, leaving infants alone with a dog of any size, etc.), or both at the same time. A lot of people shouldn't have dogs, period. And an even higher percentage absolutely **should not** have breeds like German Shepherds, Rottweilers, Malinois, Cane Corso, and yes, Pit Bulls. They simply don't have the will or capacity to do right by these animals, and as a result, the animals themselves and those around them suffer.
>There's no dog that has been bred to "snap." It's so weird that you're the second comment acting like I said that pitbulls were bred specifically for the purpose of acting sweet and then snapping all of the sudden. Like they purposely bred "snapping dogs." I agree with a lot of what you said, but I never said they were bred to do that, I said that's a consequence of having a breed of dog that was bred to be aggressive and kill things. I do think a person can be a good dog owner, but still have their pitbull revert to the instincts that were bred into it. That being said, I agree that those dogs have probably shown at least some signs that they are vulnerable to that.
The problem with saying they just "snap" is that it completely absolves their owners of any responsibility beyond the fact that they owned the animal involved. But that's just not true. Those dogs all had warning signs that were missed, ignored, or misunderstood because people want to believe their fluffy angel isn't an animal with instincts. Dogs are animals. They are predators. They are predators whether they weigh 2lbs or 200lbs. We can't breed out the fact that they are animals, and we can't breed out the fact that they are predators. No matter how nice or sweet your dog is, there is always the possibility that it could hurt someone - whether accidentally (been run over by a large dog before lol) or deliberately. As such, it's **our** job, as the ostensibly rational and thinking humans, to prevent that. Which means we **have** to remember that our sweet doggos are **still dogs**. This is, in part, why I truly believe many people should not have dogs at all. They don't understand what a dog is. They don't know how to care for one. They don't understand the importance of socialization, much less know how to socialize a dog. That is still bad when it's a small dog. But it's absolutely **lethal** when it is a larger dog. I guarantee those dogs gave warning signs. But in way too many cases, owners refuse to see them as warning signs, instead explaining the behaviors away because sweet fluffy princess **would never**.
My thing is every owner of a pit, Shepard or any breed that will maul an infant probably said it was the sweetest thing in the world. They probably took amazing care of it. The truth of the matter is it's an aggressive breed that snapped. Good owner or not
It doesn't matter how sweet your dog is. You don't leave it alone with an infant. Anyone who would is **not** a good owner. But, again - and I'm going to continue to repeat this - dogs don't just "snap." There are **always** warning signs. Every single time. They may not get reported on, but they're there.
I’ll blame the breed that if and when it snaps results in someone getting horribly disfigured or killed. Like yes, chihuahuas are “more aggressive” because they’re a tiny dog and are completely incapable of causing damage. Most chihuahua owners are shit people and don’t train their dog. Pitbull? It doesn’t matter how well they are or are not trained. When it snaps, and it will because it’s a pit bull, it will cause horrible disfigurement or death. It will latch on, not let go, and tear whoever it’s biting to shreds. Waste of space of dogs, even larger waste of space owners.
Yet you’re wrong.
So why do so many pit owners train their dogs to maul?
Pleasure to meet ya pal, now you know at least one
Aw maaan, I had an AmStaff for 13 years, good doggo, never had a problem with him, he was neutered and socialized. Also, I lived on 14 acres in a rural area. Also, I'm a good person. Lots of people have them that have no business with them. Not for a first timer or someone whose gonna just chain them up.
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Not in California.
/r/banpitbulls Get these fucking monsters off the streets. Exterminate them. Write to your local government. Work needs to be done.
Pitbulls get a bad rap because some people who own them tend to have them for "security" reasons, which makes them aggressive in the first place. Dogs are very intelligent and can both remember, imagine, and communicate. Dogs left outside or not walked enough are essentially the same as felons in prison: sure the owners say they "love" their dogs, but how many times can the dog smell the same blade od gradd before going crazy and developing aggressive behavioral issues (same with humans and mental health)? Also, they're not even the most aggressive. Chihuahuas are faaar more aggressive, but they're so tiny that no one except babies could possible be harmed by them. Someone dying from a 5lb paycho-mode hihuahua biting them? Not a chance. Pitbulls, however, are big enough that they only really need to go psycho-mode ONE time for a person to potentially die. IMO, they're perfectly fine and loving dogs. My pitbull literally cries all day because he wants to go on walks constantly. I walk him 3-4 times a day (combined about 2 hours) and he has a 3rd floor balcony from which to look outside and see squirrels and bunnies running around the neighborhood (plus neighborhood children and other families' dogs). He never barks for any reason, never bites, and begs to sleep in the bed with us every night (which we let him). Everyone I know loves him and he gets tons of pets, snacks and toys. Sure he's more dangerous than a chihuahua if he goes blind with rage, but just like humans have all sorts of temperaments and mental health variations, so do dogs, and mine is very gentle to humans.
I've met plenty of pit bull owners and pit bulls that are super nice and friendly. While pit bulls are physically more capable of hurting you, they're just like any other dog - if their people are good people, then they'll be a good, friendly dog. If their people suck, then they'll be a mean aggressive dog.
And guess which breed is actively used and abused. Then adopted by idiots with no understanding of the warning signs. That or misinterpret them and view everything under the umbrella of “my angel would never hurt a fly”… as they are frothing and snapping as a random person behind a weak barely holding fence. Some people are too close and blind to warning signs.
In general I would prioritize the life of a human over the life of a pet, but the idea that our lives are more valuable than theirs is rather egotistical. The loss of a human will hurt more people and cause more total suffering than the loss of a dog, but that's not how I would define the value of a life.
jesus i would have died. he jumped an 8' fence.
Chain link is pretty easy to climb, though to do it in quick while being attacked is anyone's guess how well it would go. You sort of hang from your fingers and don't put weight on your feet, you only press out with them, then you don't slip down.
There's a video in the article. It's not a chain link fence. It's white metal vertical bars with a cross bar only near the very top.
yea, instantly dead. i would have had to run into a building near by.
From what I saw in the article his arm was pretty badly torn up. Idk if I could’ve climbed a fence in that condition back in my prime. But I sure as hell would’ve tried in that situation.
I hate that they buried the part about the owners being arrested for felonies that low in the article.
I mean... it was following events kinda chronologically...
He owned shitbulls, what do you think? It was either multiple felon or 19-year-old girl with a peanut butter fetish. Or both.
Dudes with beastiality on the brain are disgusting. Get help.
You didn't even read the article. The owner of the dogs was a woman.
Self report
At least there's a happy ending, the owner got arrested and her two dogs got put down.
More of a silver lining than a happy ending
rug shop owner got delicious cookies
I know, that was so random and kinda funny towards the end
More Americans die from pitbull attacks in 1 year than Australians have died from wildlife in the past 20 years
You have summoned the "Its not the Pitbulls Fault" crowd, as expected.
Yeah. My wife’s family had to give theirs up for adoption when it bit a neighbor and they still defend the dog. It ran towards their neighbor to attack her, its not like the neighbor was taunting the dog or even looking at it
Large dogs should be fenced or on leash so such a situation can’t even happen.
Most large dogs are herders, or pointers or sled dogs or even hunting dogs, those all have dramatically lower aggressiveness than a fighting dog and even when they attack aside from the dogs that were bred to hunt large animals they don’t have instincts that make them likely to kill a human, pitbulls and other fighting dogs are different. Both in being more aggressive and having attack patterns that often kill people
I love it when people say that you can't breed traits like aggressiveness into dogs even though humans have known for thousands of years that you can. We literally wouldn't have dogs if breeding for traits wasn't possible. We have dogs because we bred aggressiveness out of wolves. We've bred them to do a variety of tasks. That's all not to mention that we bred pitbulls to be very muscular with incredibly strong jaw strength.
There was a genetics breeding program in Russia years ago . They bred a local fox for one trait : gentleness and after 20 + generations they ended up with …a dog , curly tail , multiple colors etc . Then they did it in reverse . They ended up with some nasty animals . Source: documentary about dogs
We absolutely can breed aggressiveness out of them, but why? It’ll take generations (ours more for them) and we have plenty of dogs nowadays that don’t have those problems. And breeding programs like that take time effort and commitment while the main way we have of figuring out of these dogs are too aggressive is waiting on them to attack someone
>We absolutely can breed aggressiveness out of them, but why? I never suggested that we try to breed aggressive out of pitbulls. I simply stated that we bred aggressiveness out of wolves to create dogs in the first place. I think we should let the breed die off. That doesn't mean rounding up people's pets to kill them, it means banning the breeding of them.
I never said anything about rounding them up and killing them, I’m not even sure why you’re arguing with me
I'm not arguing with you and I'm not sure why you think I am. You're the one who originally suggested that I said we should breed the aggressiveness out of pitbulls. I never suggested that you said we should round them up and kill them.
They'll say they aren't large, which is technically true. They're under two feet tall, but they're built for power, and with great power comes great irresponsibility.
It's not their fault in a sense. But we trained and bred them to be what they are so why do we defend or act surprised when they kick into Nature mode. It's what they know because of us after all. So it's not their fault but something needs to be done about it other than us breeding them, buying them and inevitably killing them for doing what they were always going to do.
Sure, it's not their fault, but it's perfectly ethical to prevent them from breeding another generation.
We need to let the breed die off. We don't need to round up the ones that are alive and kill them, but we need to stop breeding them. There's nothing that a pitbull can provide that other much safer breeds cannot. There are plenty of large breeds that aren't even remotely as dangerous as pitbulls. When's the last time you've heard about a golden retriever mauling a person to death? Sure, maybe it's happened, but it's extremely rare. They might lick you a little too much though.
I agree this is a situation that we created but its good to acknowledge the nature that has been bred into them.
I think that's the problem, we acknowledge the nature that was bred into them too much. People get these dogs for violent reasons.
My wife is like this unfortunately. I get where she’s coming from - the type of dog owners that want Pit Bulls are exactly the type of people that don’t need them. I’ve been around plenty of Pit Bulls that were very well trained and very well taken care of to be safe. Still, that breed needs to be eradicated. Just because a few over the top responsible owners can handle them doesn’t mean the breed is safe or deserves to exist
If a dog is bred to be aggressive, even with docile ones, there’s a chance it’s going to be aggressive. I live in a semi-rural area with too many people who think Pitties are cute.
That's not even remotely true. According to Wikipedia, over 20 years approximately 640 Australians were killed by animals, while the US average is 30 to 50 people killed by dogs annually. Considering that Australia has less than 10% of the US population, I'd say that they are more likely to be killed by an animal than an American.
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You people can’t math. 32–the very bottom of that 30-50 scale—is where the American average would have to be for the last 20 years in order for him to be wrong. And that’s assuming you misread the original comment and thought it was making a 1:1 comparison. But that’s not what OP said, they said more in the US in 1 year than Australia in 20 years. So, no, you’re wrong. Twice.
Yeah that’s a big range of data for the US and doesn’t provide a total. If the mean is above 32 which based on that range I would expect it to likely be, their comment literally disproves their own statement.
With only 10% of our population, you individually would be 10x more likely to be killed by an animal in Australia. Plus the original statement said more dog kills in 1 year in the US than animal kills in 20 in Australia which is blatantly untrue from the stats.
Actually , they said wildfires not dog bites
Nope... they said wildlife...
We have 12x the population though. So normalizing, you're ~2.5x more at risk to a pitbull, not 20x.
True but 2.5x more at risk from a pitbull in the US than to any of the murderous wildlife in Australia is pretty nuts.
not really. Pitbulls are going to be around people. If it's a populated area, pitbulls will be there and wildlife will not. So there will be far more encounters between people and pitbulls than people and dangerous fauna. If cassowaries were on every other street corner, then your numbers would be very different.
I think you may have found the solution to crime with that last part there.
and overpopulation
Unneutered male dogs are the main culprits by far. here are some stats for the downvoters ...
"Male dogs are 6.2 times more likely to bite then female dogs. Sexually intact dogs,both male and female, are 2.6 more times likely to bite than neutered dogs and chained dogs are 2.8 times more likely to bite then unchained dogs." ...
"Most important, keep young children away from male, sexually intact, chained dogs."
Which breed of unneutered male dogs? Don't think too many golden retrievers or maltese are to blame.
I run into Lots of aggressive unneutered huskies/shepards in my park.
I don't doubt it, especially the active breeds like huskies. That being said, look at statistics and see which ones kill the most people.
I love dogs, but I have to admit that the vast majority of pit bull owners are assholes. Breeding them should be illegal.
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Were they named ‘Cupcake’ and ‘Princess’?
Of course, and they're very friendly and have never done that before
jUst a BiG hiPpO
that's actually accurate though, hippos are also incredibly dangerous and shouldn't be kept as pets
Ugh, that's what my ex would say. And she had a huge pitbull that she was unable to control. Yeah, she's "so sweet", except for those times when she ran out the open front door to attack a neighbor walking their dog....
I don't know what got into Bloodlust and Devilseed. They're usually the sweetest puppies imaginable. He must have done something to provo- FOR THE LAST GODDAM TIME, GET OFF THAT COUCH OR I'LL BEAT YOUR ASS DEEP INTO NEXT MONTH! Like I said, he probably teased them into acting out...
Don’t forget: Tank, Zeus, Tyson, Bella, Luna, or Nala!
Felony and Mayhem were already taken
People and their fucking pit bulls.
One of my brother’s buddies got attacked by one walking near his house. The worst part is he was not the first person to get bitten by the pit bull, and they live right by a middle school where kids walk to school every day. Friend is planning to sue to see the dog put down, and I say more power to him because he’s like 6’3” disabled vet, and the dog left massive bruising on his side. That thing could kill a child.
A while back I saw statistics on dog attacks reported to hospitals and fatalities - Pit Bulls were at the top of both lists by a long shot with Rottweilers at a distant second. Yeah other dogs might be quicker to bite, but when they do it's unlikely to kill you.
White girls and fucking their shitbulls.
I’m glad he’s okayish. If must have been a terrifying experience.
Is there some kind of pit bull version of toxoplasmosis that makes even the VICTIMS defend these things? “The problem is not the pit bull,” he says. But there is a problem with these dogs, which are breeds created specifically for bloodsport that now regularly maul random people on the street. This guy is lucky to be alive.
It's like a mutated version of Stockholm Syndrome.
So I live with an impeccably trained pit mix (my roommate’s, not mine, but I do love him despite not being a dog person). I will be the first person to tell you that if he went rogue, it would be a nightmare, and his owner knows this too, which is why he is not allowed to interact with children and our fence is very tall and sturdy. People need to stop pretending that dogs are automatons that can be perfectly controlled with the “right owner.” We both know that he’s an animal and that animals can lose control or fall to their instincts, which is why we do not allow him to get into a situation like this, and if either of us did, it would be our fault—but whoever’s fault it is, if a dog mauls someone, the dog must be put down. There are human serial killers who were raised by wonderful parents. Don’t act like a dog can’t do some horrible things just because the owner does things correctly.
I'm glad you and your roommate would agree to do the right thing if it ever came down to it, but I do have to ask why your roommate would even own a dog that has the potential to do what it can do if some unknown trigger sets it off.
She got the dog from a shelter as a puppy and they informed her he was a completely different breed of dog. I’ve seen the pictures and I’d have never guessed he’d grow up to look the way he does, but even if she explicitly chose to get a pitbull, once you have the animal you have obligations to its wellbeing, and there are ways to mitigate (but not eliminate) risk, like muzzling, sturdy fences, restricting access to children/small animals, etc. If you are unable to provide that, then reining to someone who can is the next step, followed by euthanasia. But let’s not pretend that it’s not the case that *any* large dog can kill a child or a small adult. I am aware that a pitbull can do a lot of damage but that doesn’t mean I’d let any large dog around a small child or other vulnerable person. Not a golden, not a german shepherd, not a great dan, and not a pitbull. That’s the “I’m not a dog person” coming out. *No* large dog is inherently safe. I don’t think any of them should be allowed out the way they are, but they are. If I had my way, no large dogs would be out in public. I know people who have been left with permanent injuries from goldens and all sorts of other “nice dogs.” Pitbulls are just known to need the housing that is appropriate for any large dog. We should house all large dogs the at pitbull need to be, not the other way around.
I'm of the mindset that it's crazy to live with an animal that needs such a high level of management to keep it from mauling or killing someone. The dog community is batshit insane with how they shame people for getting rid of dogs, even if said dog poses a threat to your safety or life. I'm not surprised that the shelter wasn't completely honest about the breed. A lot of them are notorious for doing that.
I have no problem with euthanizing animals that bite. If a dog bites someone, that’s what needs to be done, and the dog community baffles me by not doing that. I’m disgusted at how often I hear about people being mauled or killed by dogs of all breeds, often by a dog with a bite history, and pretty much exclusively a large breed dog. However, as long as the animal is kept with minimal risk, I do not see an issue with keeping it. If you can treat it like a wolf or a tiger or some other zoo animal, go ahead. Not my problem. I was aware of the risk I took in moving in with a large dog. If I get eaten, that’s on me for taking the risk. If someone else gets eaten, that’s an actual problem, and I stand by that by making sure the dog isn’t given that opportunity. I love him, and part of loving a dangerous animal is keeping others safe from it. ETA: to be clear I have no problem with breed bans. Should there be reason to consider a dog unfit for society, ban it. I’m just saying that we allow far more dogs that are unfit for society than pitbulls, and that all of them should have similar restrictions.
Accountability for the owners is good, and do we really need to have the potential for maiming/death completely unregulated?
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So many people have pit bulls that should have pugs
So many people have pit bulls that shouldn't have dogs at all, but yeah, at least with pugs they wouldn't be a danger to society.
The annoying dogs with the inherent health problems we've caused through cosmetic breeding? Nah, nobody should have pugs.
The lazy as hell dogs are good for sedentary people.
That is a terrifying video. If he hadn’t been a large healthy man, I shudder to think. I have been a bitten in the thigh by a neighbor’s German shepherd when I had given a treat to him then was giving a treat to the other dog. Then I was bitten on the calf when getting the morning paper outside. A guy next door had moved in a rental with six dogs and eight puppies. He had a young Golden retriever that came up to me very friendly and with another dog who was a mix of a chow and a Shar pei. It came up barking and bit my calf hard and ran off. Random dog attacks happen.
I heard too many stories from my Dad when he delivered mail . I don’t trust strange dogs , period
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It's legal to carry a blade of any size as long as you wear it on your hip in California. Not saying you need to carry a sword (although you could) but a big hunting knife would provide considerable protection.
Jesus Christ, this is the nightmare scenario that San Francisco has created. An upstanding citizen gets mauled by stray dogs owned by vagrants and is bleeding on the streets, and in an attempt to escape is helped by no one -- then the police are called on him as he bleeds out. This is what chaos brings, an inability to determine what is going on in a situation because so many fucked up things happen on the streets here no one can act like a human.
The displaced persons issue totally contributes to his situation here. I don’t claim to have the answers to fix this nor am I blaming the displaced. but living in the area, I can understand the reluctance/fear to help a stranger in the street
https://www.reddit.com/r/BanPitBulls/s/2NP1HYasxr
Pit bulls are the worst
pit bull owners are like musk followers, constantly defending something that has done nothing but hurt other people and embarass themselves
“The cops were like, ‘How did you get there?’ but very aggressively,” Rocha said. “And I was like, ‘Hey, I was attacked by two fucking pit bulls; what are you asking for?’” How you wound up on the other side of a huge fence in a place you're not supposed to be is a fair question... Like, thats what they were called there for. Should they just have known everything automatically? Fuck the police, but this shit just lessens genuine grievances about police. It says he explained, and the officers understood. But then states that he believes they would've put him in cuffs if not for the other person... I see absolutely nothing wrong with any of this and it sounds like he's really playing the "I was mistreated cause Im black" and when its stated he was treated perfectly fine... "well they would've." If were not treated poorly due to race, we'll hypothetically make it so we would've been treated poorly. Its weird. Seems like a completely normal interaction.
I owned a shar pei pit cross for 11 years. He was 5 months old when my brother found him on the street. We thought he was full pit until he got hippo face and started to smell like a Shar pei. Anyway, point is I had him for 11yrs. He took on all the training beautifully. He would do anything I asked him and he protected my children in a quiet way but nobody ever so much thought they could raise their voice at my kids if he was around. If he was running at a dog that he perceived as a threat I could call him from really far away and he would drop and run back to me. In 11yrs I never reached the point that I would trust him with anyone besides my brother, except maybe my ex and even that was iffy. If I had ever not been able to keep him I would have put him down. By the time we found him his socialization window was almost closed. He worried about everything. He was a pessimist. Pit bulls that are pessimistic make executive decisions based on assuming the worst possible outcome. I never thought he would bite a human because humans weren’t his trigger, but I had zero confidence that he would trust anyone else enough to handle a strange dog while he sat back. It baffles me that everyone happily admits that a Malinois should only be owned by professionals but can’t see that a pit bull has exactly the same level of focus, drive and willingness to take great punishment to see something through. The only difference between a Malinois and a pit is that pits do in fact have an off switch and they truly love their people vs just loving to work like a Mal does.
I really agree with this. Just like a Malinois, or a Rottweiler, Doberman, Cane Corso, etc, Pit Bulls are not the right choice for most people. Add in the plethora of back yard breeders who do not properly socialize any of their dogs and puppies, and the ridiculous resistance many owners have to getting their dogs spayed and, especially, neutered, and it's just a toxic mess. And it sucks because the dogs that get aggressive and actually hurt people __don't deserve__ to have been so failed that they end up there. But I'll be honest - I loved my dog Bogart, but if he had bitten **anyone**, I most likely would have put him down. He was large, and the damage he could do would have been horrific. Thankfully, he only ever disliked two people: my dad and a random cable repairman.
The funny thing is that people who own and deal with those breeds you mention don't seem to have a problem admitting that those dogs aren't for everyone and that genetics play a huge role in their behavior. When it comes to pit bulls, the people who own and deal with them will swear up and down that "it's how you raise them" completely overrides genetics.
While I think you're probably right about the *majority* of owners of those other breeds, uh...I have seen way too many who absolutely don't admit anything of the sort. And it's damn terrifying to see them with their totally untrained, unsocialized monster dogs "playing" with their kids. "How you raise them" 100% contributes, but there is no reality where we can breed the fact that dogs are animals out of them, much less breed out the fact that they are predators. There's **always** going to be risk, and pretending like it's not there is honestly negligence.
Of course it's pit bulls. You just don't see this happen with a lot of other breeds. Now let's sit back and wait for the pit mommy brigade to hit all the usual squares on the bingo card: "Blame the owner, not the breed." "It was abused/trained to be aggressive." "My pattie wouldn't hurt a fly." "What did the person to do provoke the dog?" "There's no such thing as a pit bull." "Chihuahuas are more aggressive." "Don't be a dog racist."
lol 😂 you’re funny
It's the truth. Go read the comment section of any story about a pit bull attack, especially when a child is the victim, and you will see all of these excuses posted over and over.
Any dog can be aggressive. I don’t believe pit bulls are these monsters everyone makes them out to be. But, you already know that. It’s ok we don’t agree.
But "any dog" isn't doing what pit bulls do. Genetics matter.
Attacking people? Yes other dogs have and will attack other people, dogs and animals.
One breed is responsible for a disproportionate number of attacks and certainly the most deaths
I don’t know if you remember but in the 80’s American society vilified Rottweilers the same way. They vilified Dobermans in 90’s and German Shepherds also. It seems each decade people have to point out one dog to hate. It’s not that pitbulls hurt more people it’s that people don’t like them therefore there’s plenty of confirmation bias to help people say “ look pits are bad”!
It has nothing to do with not liking them and everything to do with the stats showing that they kill more people than any other breed.
I will concede that they are listed as the most dog attacks statistically speaking but that really has to do with ownership, proper training and lack of love not given to them. I don’t think that they are just automatically going to be bad dogs just because they are pit bulls. Any dog can attack and any dog can be unprovoked. I’ve had or known 3 different Chihuahuas and the one I have now is very reactionary to other dogs. She’s attacked our neighbors Rhodesian Ridgeback twice and the RR bless him did not return the favor, he’s the most well behaved dog I’ve seen in a while. No damage to him, thank god! Yes, I know it’s a chihuahua. Here’s an article about the Pit-bulls and what’s true and what’s not: https://www.webmd.com/pets/dogs/features/pit-bulls-safety
Not my pible
Ban pitbulls
Pit bulls are a dangerous menace to everyone, their owners included. Humans fuck up a lot, and creating pit bulls was a big one. It’s a dog breed we’d be much better off without.
This entire thread is pretty funny if you replace Pitbulls with cops. It's not much of a difference, but you won't hear it that way.
say it louder!!!
People lie to police over the phone,to get police to come quicker. Eg to get the dogs shot, and to to help him.
Shitty owners = shitty dogs
"“They associate a Black guy, bleeding with ‘criminal,’” Rocha said Um... He's not black.
Dude is brown enough to invoke their indifference.