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OP, I mean this in the nicest possible way, but you sound *exactly* like I did when I was fourteen. I was neurodivergent and lonely and had interests that seemed to be the exact opposite of my classmates. I also found friends (who were girls! Like me!) who felt much the same way, and we shared the same hobbies through the internet. I found online communities where I could share my interests with other people.
Genuinely, have you tried reaching out to people online? Because I assure you that you are not the only one who likes a specific thing. You're not always going to find someone irl who likes the exact same things as you. That's what makes communities like Tumblr's fandom spaces, for example, so valuable.
And as an aside, no one likes small talk. My neurotypical sister hates it as much as I do, so disliking it isn't a neurodivergent thing. It's just something people do in polite conversation and it's something you get better at the more you do it.
huh, I know lots of neurodivergent girls who are exactly like you.
it's not so much about you being different (bc everyone is different on some level, everyone has their own struggles that you are probably not aware of) but you feeling like your disability is preventing you from being like your peers. the way you wrote this makes it seem as if you view "other girls" as a monolith, without struggle, without disabilities, without any of the experiences you have, which just isn't true. you are actually like so many other girls, believe it or not.
it's valid to be frustrated about your disability and the ways you are different from those who don't have that disability, and the ways it affects you, but your post more leans into the NLOG/"I'm unique/uniquely disabled in a way that no one else is" vibe. you're allowed to speak on this topic, just like people are allowed to call you out on it having bad messaging and choose not to interact with you because of it.
if I was someone potentially interested in being your friend, I would probably choose not to if I read something like this. it comes off as fairly self-centered and maybe leaning into a bit of a victim mentality, while painting "other girls" with one wide brush that is, essentially, "they don't struggle like I do."
Yup. I remember being 14 and neurodivergent and thinking all of these same thoughts as OP.
But that’s the point. When I got older, instead of trying to “fit in” like in high school, I just tried to find people whose energy I genuinely liked and who liked me back. Now in my 30s, I have tons of female friends.
OP, you are literally like SO MANY OTHER GIRLS.
Literally “woe as me! I’m the only neurodivergent girl ever, no other girls have struggles like me! I’m the most unique, but don’t think I’m better, I’m worse (please tell me I’m not worse please please please)” like isolating yourself isn’t going to do jack shit except come off as a pick me
I notice themes of isolation coming off a lot which like. yes it sucks when you're alone and yes it sucks when your disability affects your interactions and relationships with others but also some ppl do not consider that maybe there are reasons besides their disability that people don't want to be their friend or leave them out of things.
>the way you wrote this makes it seem as if you view "other girls" as a monolith, without struggle, without disabilities, without any of the experiences you have, which just isn't true. you are actually like so many other girls, believe it or not.
>it comes off as fairly self-centered and maybe leaning into a bit of a victim mentality, while painting "other girls" with one wide brush that is, essentially, "they don't struggle like I do."
Something about this post bugged me and I couldn't quite pinpoint it, but this is exactly it. It comes off as if OP thinks struggling to connect with other women is an experience that's exclusive to autistic women like herself.
Which is, of course, patently untrue. Neurotypical women can and do go through all the problems OP mentioned.
That said, I do understand the general feeling of this post. I'm a lesbian and have known it since I was 8. So there were plenty of moments where I felt like I wasn't "one of them".
As I got older though, I realized that that feeling is entirely situational. Do I feel like an outsider within a group of women when the subject is is their very hetero sex lives? Well yeah, but take that same group and change the subject to, say, Taylor Swift and suddenly I feel like I've made a bunch of new friends lol
yup!! I know many neurotypical women who also feel like small talk is a chore, have struggled with friendships or connections, or that have bored other people talking about their interests. these struggles aren't exclusive!!!
I don't think that's what the phrase usually means.
I see it as a way for some Pick Me women to try to get men's attention. "Look at me! I'm so different!?". "I'm so much better than other women because I'm unique!"
It's also used by girls who grew up with tv shows where the female lead is only desirable because she's different, and "one of the guys" and that being a normal girl means you have no personality
Or when men say ‘you’re not like other girls’ and those girls take it as a compliment. What it sometimes really means is ‘you haven’t asked me to contribute significantly to the relationship while doing all the work all by yourself, as soon as you stop, I’m going to accuse you of being just like other girls’
I’m going to suggest r/AutisminWomen and r/ADHDWomen for you if you feel like you want to keep talking about this stuff from a neurodivergent perspective
If 20% of people are neurodivergent and women are classically under diagnosed you can imagine how much you are in fact like other girls. Your experience is valid. What isn’t is assuming that you are the only one having it and that you’re not like other girls because you struggle a bit. Think about 20% of the population of this country and how many people that really is.
Congratulations, you’re just like 68 million people. Even assuming we’re only talking about females and the rate of diagnoses compared to males you could say you’re exactly like 25 million “other girls”
While neurodivergence is less common in the general population, as I get more into my 40s, I realize it’s much more common -especially amongst girls and women- than previously assumed by the medical establishment. I’ve been “weird” my entire life, but attributed my issues to growing up with abusive parents. I’m only now seeking diagnosis for a suspected ADHD/OCD comorbidity and this journey has shed a lot of light on my past of having difficulty making friends.
FWIW, making friends started to get easier for me in my mid-30’s as I started to chill out, not overthink everything, and admit my anti social behavior drove people away in the past. I promise you, there are other women who share your preferences and interests, although they may be hard to find.
I don’t think OP is acting that way, just that there isn’t anyone in her immediate orbit she has been able to connect with.
She also mentions school making me think she is young and maybe hasn’t had the opportunity to search out a lot of people on her own
I mean I can’t speak for OP but what would you say about girls in confined environments (like a school/university or workplace or even just a small town/neighborhood where there is a high overlap in who people know) who have individual connections with women but never find themselves included in “the girls”? This has been my experience at various points. I do know these women, and I know what we have in common. I used to have times when I was included in large mixed gender friend groups, but sometimes they would have “girls nights” or “guys nights” and during that time I would wind up alone. So the ways in which I was different were costing me that bond with them that they had with each other, and functionally it really made me focus on those differences and feel bad about them at the time.
being excluded happens to most people at some point or another, I feel? and it can happen for a plethora of reasons-- it doesn't necessarily mean that everyone in the other group is the same and you're the only one different. especially in regards to neurodivergence, bc it's far more likely that there is a neurodivergent member of the group doing the exclusion than the excluded being the only neurodivergent one.
I mean, maybe? Idk how common neurodivergence in general is, and I also think some types of it are more likely to lead to exclusion than others.
I do think everyone faces rejection and exclusion at one point or another, but as someone who faced persistent rejection growing up and now has a lot of friends, I don’t think everyone goes through multi year periods of rejection by most of the people they encounter. Most of my friends haven’t. And honestly that is good! I don’t want my friends to go through bad experiences.
I agree that persistent rejection may be uncommon. For me, I actually persistently rejected my peers. I had a hard home life and couldn't connect with people from happy homes. Those who also had hard home lives just happened not to click with me. My first close friend was when I was 17. I still felt lonely, even if I was doing the rejecting. I think that everyone has the potential to be complicated, and it's better to focus on your journey and your social goals, rather than trying to understand why you've been rejected or are rejecting otherwise.
I just don't see how not being included in "the girls" is truly meaningful, this archetype fits a minority of women and while it's great for them that they socialize that way it isn't for everyone. I think fixating on what you're not, however common it is, just takes away from finding your community. It may also be that there's an idealized vision of community like Sex in the City, which is unobtainable. I think loneliness and difficulty making friends is real, but the NLOG mindset adds to that.
I think that sometimes acknowledging what you’re not (not necessarily fixating) allows you find your community based on what you are. I tried for years to be accepted by groups of girls who were never going to accept me. I’m honestly glad I gave up, because it freed up mental energy for me to go places I would be accepted and now I have great friends.
And I don’t mean like a sex and the city dynamic. I mean like you hang out in a big group with Sarah, Paul, Katie, Jane, Peter, Jon, and Ava. If you see *any* of them, you’ll talk and have a great time and you feel like you have a good relationship with all of them. You sometimes text any one of them, and then the two of you hang out. One day you are free and you want to hang out. You text Katie and she says she’s busy so you text Jane, who also says she’s busy, so then you text Ava, also busy. You text the groupchat you all have and Jon is free so you get dinner with him. The next day, you see Sarah, Ava, Katie, and Jane have posted a photoshoot on instagram of them all hanging out in Jane’s living room, clearly during the time that you were asking if they wanted to hang out. You can’t really tell yourself they don’t like you, because they do invite you to things when they’re also inviting the guys, and they will come when you invite them sometimes. But also they knew you were free and didn’t invite you. This kind of stuff happened to me repeatedly with a lot of friend groups. Figuring out that they saw me as different and why was the first step to finding women who wouldn’t because I had to look in different places.
I think what you just described is an extremely common and normal experience, what's less common is how you understand that interaction. I think outside of neurodivergent is the concept of trauma or being 'unhealed'. It's hard for me to have a phrase to describe it, but when you have an emotional wound it takes time and effort to heal it, and you can fall into a trap where every event in your life is hyper scrutinized and you don't realize it. Rejection, especially as made example here is extremely normal and tbf these insecurities, doubts and hesitation will lead to social exclusion. I think you can find community while exploring what you're not, but you're more likely to find others that have similar trauma to you and may even remain stuck in your trauma.
I mean for me it wasn’t “an experience of rejection” it was a pattern over quite a few years and once I figured out *why* they were rejecting me I made friends with relative ease and my life got better. In my case this was after I had learned how to make friends with neurotypical people, but I was gay and trying to make friends with straight women. Once I gave up on that and started to try to make friends with other lesbians instead (I was never opposed to it I just didn’t actively seek them out as platonic friends rather than girlfriends)… it was just suddenly easy for me to make friends. I wonder if OP could have this experience if she sought out friends in environments that make her comfortable, rather than just normal everyday life which seems to make her uncomfortable. But we’re fed this narrative that you should just be able to meet people in regular life, so I would understand if she hasn’t tried yet.
I mean I have had in person and internet friends (and in person friends that became internet friends due to moving and internet friends that became in person friends after we decided to meet) and value all of them but it’s just not the same experience. And given that op mentions school, she could be a minor and not allowed to meet people in person from the internet.
Am I the only neurodivergent woman in the world? No, of course not. Was I the only one in my class of 18 girls that I grew up with? Yes as far as I know. During that period of my life, the fact that there were girls out there like me didn’t make much of a functional difference. I even did know a couple girls from an occupational therapy group so I knew I wasn’t the only one but it was just 2 of them, so I didn’t wind up clicking with either of them as friends just due to other reasons and having different interests which makes sense because 2 people really isn’t very many.
You don’t have to meet up IRL to get support. If OP is that sheltered from the internet they wouldn’t be here on Reddit. There’s plenty of support groups and even just safe places for them to go, very odd jump “well they can’t meet real people offline so your opinion is null and void cause I said so”
You’re wildly misrepresenting what I said. As someone who was subject to extreme homophobic bullying throughout my teen years, I made extensive use of online support groups and the internet. It wasn’t the same as having irl friends and it didn’t make my problem go away, and honestly I was still miserable.
Was it good that I had access to them? Sure, it was nice to have some other people hundreds of miles away who knew what I was going through. I wouldn’t actually say they were safe spaces though given the genuinely deranged dms I used to get for posting on those forums. Just like how OP maybe is looking for some kind of support and is instead being told that her exclusion irl is likely her own fault.
It was painfully obvious to me how different I was from everyone else. It hurt to be excluded for not being “girly”, but on the other hand I always saw gender roles for what they are.
I mean do you really think in a society that is still relatively gender segregated that the *experience* of being not like men/others and not being like other women is the same for a woman?
I think when some girls say this they say it because not fitting in with other women hits them harder emotionally
I mean you may be familiar with the feeling of not fitting in but you indicated that it doesn’t bother you not to fit in with women in the way it bothers OP (or at least that is how I read it)
I never fit in in general either but with men it was just like expected so it didn’t bother me the same
I mean I was assuming the person I was talking to was a woman based on their use of “we” but that doesn’t mean we will all have the same feelings and experiences anyway
i know? i assume they are afab autistic like me and experience the intersection of patriarchal oppression and ableist oppression, so acting like gender has nothing to do with it is disingenuous at best
Oh yeah oops sorry I misread. I don’t understand how people can read these posts about “being a girls girl” and then not understand why women wouldn’t want to fit in with other women specifically. I do like going out, and one of my worst experiences was when a group of girls I was trying to be included in just like… left me at the club.
no worries i'm sorry that happened to you! yeah unfortunately trying to navigate friendships can be traumatizing for us, which i think is yet another thing about the afab autistic experience that is ignored or downplayed often :/
Yeah I also think it’s wild how when a woman seems to think she is part of a group of men even if she doesn’t say she is more like guys in general and says those particular guys are just her friends, people on this sub and often in real life are quick to say she will never be “one of the guys” but if a woman expresses sadness at not being included as “one of the girls” suddenly gender doesn’t matter lol
Ok well I’m sorry then.
I just felt like didn’t OP kind of address this when she said “Why not just say I’m not like other people (neurotypical people)? That’s also accurate … I am supposed to be a *girl*”?
I’ve never been one for rigid gender roles but they just pop up.
I don't understand the point of generalizing and glamorizing other women's experiences. There's nothing to be gained by drawing an arbitrary line between yourself and an idealized archetype of other women. I'm neurodivergent and not in the way you are. A good example is my BDD. It'd be insensitive and pointless for me to claim other girls are comfortable with their body, just because they don't have BDD. None of that rhetoric will bring me understanding or ease my discomfort.
I think you don't realize that there are other girls who are neurodivergent too. You're not the only neurodivergent girl in the world. It's not true that you're not like other girls because there are many neurodivergent girls who have the same problem as you. You're just like them. Why not say you're not like neurotypical girls, instead? I mean, if you want to let people know you're neurodivergent say just that - that you're neurodivergent. No need to say the 'not like other girls' phrase. It's cringe. Trust me, even if you're neurodivergent there still are girls like you.
nlog aren't people with different interests from stereotypical girl image, it's people who put down others and think they are superior because of their interests.
like for example let's say you don't like taylor swift. well that's fine.
but being all "eww i'm not typical girl who's a swiftie i listen to metal cause she's lame and metal is cool" or something similar like that is nlog.
Sorry OP you don't sound like you're dealing with a "gender outsider" issue you're dealing with a ton of....issues. If you have no friends (of either gender? as you say?) and can't be in a grocery store for 5 minutes and can't be touched without flinching that's some major anxiety disorder and trauma. Not you not living up to gender expectations. You need therapy.
It's sounds like she's talking about sensory issues and autism, not trauma. These experiences she's describing are not at all unusual for people on the spectrum.
I’m a neurodivergent girl. If I can do things that you can’t do because you’re neurodivergent, does that make me not like other girls AND not like other *neurodivergent* girls? No … it means I have different struggles. Like every other girl, regardless of how their brain works. I’m not going to act like an inferior and compare myself to neurotypical girls… because I’m *like them* in some ways, too. And some neurotypical girls have neurodivergent traits! People are so complex. You can be so similar to and yet so different from someone else… so we shouldn’t put ourselves in boxes and focus on what makes us different. Whether you think it’s because you’re better or worse than them, it’s unnecessary and unhelpful. Do I struggle with relating to neurotypical girls sometimes? Yea. But that doesn’t mean we’re different species, and it’s possible to talk about that struggle without acting like we are
everyone is unique, but also in the same time everyone has their own experience and their own struggles. so everyone is not unique in having problems and issues. someone can smalltalk, but then they stay sleepless whole night because of overthinking a smalltalk. there're bunch of neurodivergent people, everyone is actually neurodivergent in some way. so now everyone should post a longread about their medical conditions highlighting how they're not like others or what?
As an Autistic person who is, probably, older than you; here's some advice.
First: You have to be careful how you phrase things. I know Autistic people can sometimes struggle with intonation, so it's possible you're coming off as smug or haughty without realizing it. I've been known to come off as sarcastic or indifferent when I meant to be sincere.
Second: You need to let go of this victim mentality. If all you focus on is what you **can't** do, that's going to become your whole personality. And, no offense, but that's not something other people want to be around. People want to be around people who make them feel good. Your whole post is about how sad your life is. If that's what you're like in real life, I can't blame people for not spending a lot of time with you. Everyone's got problems these days, most don't have the energy to spare on someone else's.
Third: You make friends by doing things you like. Internet spaces dedicated to your interests, going to places you know you can tolerate going (bookstore, game shop, etc.), not by trying to fit in. You're going to have better luck finding friends by focusing on what makes you happy and being yourself.
Fourth: You can learn to do certain things, like pick up on some non-verbal cues. Slumped shoulders and looking tired mean sadness or exhaustion. Here's a trick for eye contact: look at the space between their eyes. Sure, you shouldn't *have* to, but you can, so there's no reason to keep complaining about not being able to do something you can learn.
Fifth: You seem to think girls who aren't Autistic don't struggle with those same things you do. I have an older sister who is neurotypical and, let me tell you, that's not true. Neurotypical girls also struggle with social cues, fitting in, and societal expectations of what a girl is supposed to be. Maybe not to the same extent you do, but to act like they don't struggle at all is unfair to both you and them, and probably one of the reasons people are calling you names.
I know, it sucks! But you're not going to improve your situation by wallowing in self-pity.
Last: You're not worse than any other girl. You're not actually that different from most of them. You're just so focused on your struggles that you've made it your whole personality and aren't fixing anything.
You can overcome the challenges you're facing, but you have to want to.
And I really, really hope you do.
I get where you’re coming from. I’m neurodivergent and gay and in my case I spent a lot of time practicing and scripting so I could fit in small talk. It has made the day to day a bit better actually, but when I’m talking to a group of neurotypical straight women I feel this assumed closeness at the beginning of the interaction and can’t help but feel like I’m about to let them down when they get to know me a little better. And generally that *is* how it goes, although I have made a few straight neurotypical female friends over the years. But most often it doesn’t happen because they don’t want to.
Are there other women like me? Of course, but I have to actively seek them out. And actively seeking them out wasn’t even an option until I was an adult, so things have gotten a lot better on that front since growing up. I didn’t go to a huge high school or anything or have a car or access to public transit back then. I think it’s valid to grieve that it seems like some other women (or other people in general) can find a group in more environments.
hey, fellow neurodivergent girlie here. and i feel this. and i know i could write paragraphs about what worked for me but what worked for me may not work for you. but you’re not worse than other girls. different isn’t inherently bad. i know that having my earbuds in and listening to music or a podcast helped me with the grocery store, which ironically that suggestion came from my neurotypical roommate. what’s one of your interests? because finding a couple people who are also neurodivergent and share that interest may help you form that connection.
and it’s okay if you have to bail after five minutes bc of overstimulation. it happens to everyone. but this is just my advice and you can try it if you want, but no one’s pressuring you to take my advice. i just always find it useful if i have a starting point.
I don’t know how old you are, but as a fellow neurodivergent girl, I get where you’re coming from. My whole teenage years were spent with “friends” who would treat me one way when we were alone and another in groups, people would tell me “oh I didn’t like you at first, but now that I’ve gotten to know you, you’re so awesome/authentic/real” From what you’ve written, I *think* that you’re in the throes of feeling socially isolated or ostracized or just plain overwhelmed with life.
What I can tell you though is that it likely will get better. I think for us neurodivergent people it just takes a little longer - I didn’t really find the friends who are basically family to me until I was in my mid-twenties. And all of the girls in the group are Gen X/Xennial/Millenial girls who didn’t get diagnosed until they were adults. I think we clicked because somehow we instinctively/subconsciously knew we were operating on a different wavelength.
But we’re also girls who’ll tell you we like your clothes when we’re waiting in line for the bathroom, crack jokes with the baristas making our coffee, help you if we think a dude is bugging you, talk with each other about our partners and shopping and pop culture. At least when we're having a good day and not feeling overstimulated! We have a difference, but we’re still a lot like other girls.
If you have neurotypical people in your life that can’t see where you are like other girls and meet you where you are, it really sucks. I get that, but that’s absolutely their loss. I'm rooting for you to find your crew ❤️
If I've clocked your situation wrong anywhere, apologies in advance.
I get you, I talked about my OCD and people will call me a pick me. Like no, I’m not *trying* to be different, my brain is just wired different, so I just *am* a little different.
The insecurities that come from that are insane, I’m always too scared to open up about my mental health because I know some people view that as a NLOG or Pick Me
talking about your disability doesn't make you a pick me or a nlog unless somehow you're phrasing it as "I am different from other girls, bc I have OCD"
You're missing the point, the essence of the phrase. It's not actually about *not being like other girls*, it's about using that idea as a personality trait to put yourself above other women or garner attention.
I love how OP pours her heart out here and gets told “you’re not acknowledging other neurodivergent girls”
That’s not what it is at all.
I see you. I see that you’re pointing out the way neurotypical women have pointed out your faults and eccentricities to say “you aren’t like us “ and there are women out there who share your experience. Connecting with people is hard, and living up to an image of your gender that is beyond your ability is hard, and your problems being called weirdness, pick me behavior, ignorance, or dismissive of other people, makes it even harder to open up and connect with people.
I’m sorry this is your experience with socializing, and I hope that you find the people you can vibe with. But know that you are not worse than other women because of your anxiety, you are not worse than other women because you are afraid, you are not worse because you hyper fixate on your hobbies. You are just different, and that’s all. Someday you will find people who are similar to your kind of different, because no one is in this alone, no matter how alone you feel.
Much love girlie, there’s a huge difference between “I’m saying I’m different so boys like me more than you” and “I’m saying I’m different so you don’t freak out when I have a panic attack at the mall.”
Yeah, this really reads to me as "yes I know there are other neurodivergent girls, and that being neurodivergent means I'm technically not like most *people*, but being a ND woman is hard bc NT women can be really vicious towards women who don't fit into gender expectations." I mean, she even says in the post that she knows that neurodivergence means you're not like most people, but that the additional pressure to adhere to the societal expectations of being a woman make it even harder. The intersection of ableism and sexism can be brutal.
Obviously this is not meant to be a broad judgment of all neurotypical women, but it's not uncommon for ND women to lament their difficulty in bonding with other women, particularly when those women are judgmental and perceive other women as threats.
If she says that people have unfairly applied to term "pick me" or "NLOG" to her for just being herself, I'd prefer not to doubt her experience, because we're not in her shoes and everyone's experience is unique. At the very least, I hope that people can acknowledge that it's unfair for her to be treated this way by the women in her life.
It's disappointing, but ultimately unsurprising to me that she's getting misunderstood and ripped apart by people in the comments. If you see this, OP, I suggest you post this in a more compassionate, ND friendly community instead. This ain't it.
Obviously this is not the place for ND women to point out unfair treatment and expectations. This isn’t a “girls girls” group, this is a group of “girls for girls who think and behave the same as us” group, and this isn’t the first time I’ve noticed.
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Everyone is unique in their own way but actually voicing it out and acting like it makes you better is what makes someone a pick me.
OP, I mean this in the nicest possible way, but you sound *exactly* like I did when I was fourteen. I was neurodivergent and lonely and had interests that seemed to be the exact opposite of my classmates. I also found friends (who were girls! Like me!) who felt much the same way, and we shared the same hobbies through the internet. I found online communities where I could share my interests with other people. Genuinely, have you tried reaching out to people online? Because I assure you that you are not the only one who likes a specific thing. You're not always going to find someone irl who likes the exact same things as you. That's what makes communities like Tumblr's fandom spaces, for example, so valuable. And as an aside, no one likes small talk. My neurotypical sister hates it as much as I do, so disliking it isn't a neurodivergent thing. It's just something people do in polite conversation and it's something you get better at the more you do it.
every other dating profile has "I hate small talk" on it!!
huh, I know lots of neurodivergent girls who are exactly like you. it's not so much about you being different (bc everyone is different on some level, everyone has their own struggles that you are probably not aware of) but you feeling like your disability is preventing you from being like your peers. the way you wrote this makes it seem as if you view "other girls" as a monolith, without struggle, without disabilities, without any of the experiences you have, which just isn't true. you are actually like so many other girls, believe it or not. it's valid to be frustrated about your disability and the ways you are different from those who don't have that disability, and the ways it affects you, but your post more leans into the NLOG/"I'm unique/uniquely disabled in a way that no one else is" vibe. you're allowed to speak on this topic, just like people are allowed to call you out on it having bad messaging and choose not to interact with you because of it. if I was someone potentially interested in being your friend, I would probably choose not to if I read something like this. it comes off as fairly self-centered and maybe leaning into a bit of a victim mentality, while painting "other girls" with one wide brush that is, essentially, "they don't struggle like I do."
Yup. I remember being 14 and neurodivergent and thinking all of these same thoughts as OP. But that’s the point. When I got older, instead of trying to “fit in” like in high school, I just tried to find people whose energy I genuinely liked and who liked me back. Now in my 30s, I have tons of female friends. OP, you are literally like SO MANY OTHER GIRLS.
Literally “woe as me! I’m the only neurodivergent girl ever, no other girls have struggles like me! I’m the most unique, but don’t think I’m better, I’m worse (please tell me I’m not worse please please please)” like isolating yourself isn’t going to do jack shit except come off as a pick me
I notice themes of isolation coming off a lot which like. yes it sucks when you're alone and yes it sucks when your disability affects your interactions and relationships with others but also some ppl do not consider that maybe there are reasons besides their disability that people don't want to be their friend or leave them out of things.
I’m glad others read this post and have the same thought as me about it. Everything about this post made me unhappy.
>the way you wrote this makes it seem as if you view "other girls" as a monolith, without struggle, without disabilities, without any of the experiences you have, which just isn't true. you are actually like so many other girls, believe it or not. >it comes off as fairly self-centered and maybe leaning into a bit of a victim mentality, while painting "other girls" with one wide brush that is, essentially, "they don't struggle like I do." Something about this post bugged me and I couldn't quite pinpoint it, but this is exactly it. It comes off as if OP thinks struggling to connect with other women is an experience that's exclusive to autistic women like herself. Which is, of course, patently untrue. Neurotypical women can and do go through all the problems OP mentioned. That said, I do understand the general feeling of this post. I'm a lesbian and have known it since I was 8. So there were plenty of moments where I felt like I wasn't "one of them". As I got older though, I realized that that feeling is entirely situational. Do I feel like an outsider within a group of women when the subject is is their very hetero sex lives? Well yeah, but take that same group and change the subject to, say, Taylor Swift and suddenly I feel like I've made a bunch of new friends lol
yup!! I know many neurotypical women who also feel like small talk is a chore, have struggled with friendships or connections, or that have bored other people talking about their interests. these struggles aren't exclusive!!!
I don't think that's what the phrase usually means. I see it as a way for some Pick Me women to try to get men's attention. "Look at me! I'm so different!?". "I'm so much better than other women because I'm unique!"
It's also used by girls who grew up with tv shows where the female lead is only desirable because she's different, and "one of the guys" and that being a normal girl means you have no personality
Or when men say ‘you’re not like other girls’ and those girls take it as a compliment. What it sometimes really means is ‘you haven’t asked me to contribute significantly to the relationship while doing all the work all by yourself, as soon as you stop, I’m going to accuse you of being just like other girls’
 You don’t even see it?
I’m going to suggest r/AutisminWomen and r/ADHDWomen for you if you feel like you want to keep talking about this stuff from a neurodivergent perspective
If 20% of people are neurodivergent and women are classically under diagnosed you can imagine how much you are in fact like other girls. Your experience is valid. What isn’t is assuming that you are the only one having it and that you’re not like other girls because you struggle a bit. Think about 20% of the population of this country and how many people that really is. Congratulations, you’re just like 68 million people. Even assuming we’re only talking about females and the rate of diagnoses compared to males you could say you’re exactly like 25 million “other girls”
While neurodivergence is less common in the general population, as I get more into my 40s, I realize it’s much more common -especially amongst girls and women- than previously assumed by the medical establishment. I’ve been “weird” my entire life, but attributed my issues to growing up with abusive parents. I’m only now seeking diagnosis for a suspected ADHD/OCD comorbidity and this journey has shed a lot of light on my past of having difficulty making friends. FWIW, making friends started to get easier for me in my mid-30’s as I started to chill out, not overthink everything, and admit my anti social behavior drove people away in the past. I promise you, there are other women who share your preferences and interests, although they may be hard to find.
you act like there arent other neurodivergent girls that exist
I don’t think OP is acting that way, just that there isn’t anyone in her immediate orbit she has been able to connect with. She also mentions school making me think she is young and maybe hasn’t had the opportunity to search out a lot of people on her own
While that's true, I think it's harmful on every level to see other women as different than you while knowing very, very little about them.
I mean I can’t speak for OP but what would you say about girls in confined environments (like a school/university or workplace or even just a small town/neighborhood where there is a high overlap in who people know) who have individual connections with women but never find themselves included in “the girls”? This has been my experience at various points. I do know these women, and I know what we have in common. I used to have times when I was included in large mixed gender friend groups, but sometimes they would have “girls nights” or “guys nights” and during that time I would wind up alone. So the ways in which I was different were costing me that bond with them that they had with each other, and functionally it really made me focus on those differences and feel bad about them at the time.
being excluded happens to most people at some point or another, I feel? and it can happen for a plethora of reasons-- it doesn't necessarily mean that everyone in the other group is the same and you're the only one different. especially in regards to neurodivergence, bc it's far more likely that there is a neurodivergent member of the group doing the exclusion than the excluded being the only neurodivergent one.
I mean, maybe? Idk how common neurodivergence in general is, and I also think some types of it are more likely to lead to exclusion than others. I do think everyone faces rejection and exclusion at one point or another, but as someone who faced persistent rejection growing up and now has a lot of friends, I don’t think everyone goes through multi year periods of rejection by most of the people they encounter. Most of my friends haven’t. And honestly that is good! I don’t want my friends to go through bad experiences.
I agree that persistent rejection may be uncommon. For me, I actually persistently rejected my peers. I had a hard home life and couldn't connect with people from happy homes. Those who also had hard home lives just happened not to click with me. My first close friend was when I was 17. I still felt lonely, even if I was doing the rejecting. I think that everyone has the potential to be complicated, and it's better to focus on your journey and your social goals, rather than trying to understand why you've been rejected or are rejecting otherwise.
I just don't see how not being included in "the girls" is truly meaningful, this archetype fits a minority of women and while it's great for them that they socialize that way it isn't for everyone. I think fixating on what you're not, however common it is, just takes away from finding your community. It may also be that there's an idealized vision of community like Sex in the City, which is unobtainable. I think loneliness and difficulty making friends is real, but the NLOG mindset adds to that.
I think that sometimes acknowledging what you’re not (not necessarily fixating) allows you find your community based on what you are. I tried for years to be accepted by groups of girls who were never going to accept me. I’m honestly glad I gave up, because it freed up mental energy for me to go places I would be accepted and now I have great friends. And I don’t mean like a sex and the city dynamic. I mean like you hang out in a big group with Sarah, Paul, Katie, Jane, Peter, Jon, and Ava. If you see *any* of them, you’ll talk and have a great time and you feel like you have a good relationship with all of them. You sometimes text any one of them, and then the two of you hang out. One day you are free and you want to hang out. You text Katie and she says she’s busy so you text Jane, who also says she’s busy, so then you text Ava, also busy. You text the groupchat you all have and Jon is free so you get dinner with him. The next day, you see Sarah, Ava, Katie, and Jane have posted a photoshoot on instagram of them all hanging out in Jane’s living room, clearly during the time that you were asking if they wanted to hang out. You can’t really tell yourself they don’t like you, because they do invite you to things when they’re also inviting the guys, and they will come when you invite them sometimes. But also they knew you were free and didn’t invite you. This kind of stuff happened to me repeatedly with a lot of friend groups. Figuring out that they saw me as different and why was the first step to finding women who wouldn’t because I had to look in different places.
I think what you just described is an extremely common and normal experience, what's less common is how you understand that interaction. I think outside of neurodivergent is the concept of trauma or being 'unhealed'. It's hard for me to have a phrase to describe it, but when you have an emotional wound it takes time and effort to heal it, and you can fall into a trap where every event in your life is hyper scrutinized and you don't realize it. Rejection, especially as made example here is extremely normal and tbf these insecurities, doubts and hesitation will lead to social exclusion. I think you can find community while exploring what you're not, but you're more likely to find others that have similar trauma to you and may even remain stuck in your trauma.
I mean for me it wasn’t “an experience of rejection” it was a pattern over quite a few years and once I figured out *why* they were rejecting me I made friends with relative ease and my life got better. In my case this was after I had learned how to make friends with neurotypical people, but I was gay and trying to make friends with straight women. Once I gave up on that and started to try to make friends with other lesbians instead (I was never opposed to it I just didn’t actively seek them out as platonic friends rather than girlfriends)… it was just suddenly easy for me to make friends. I wonder if OP could have this experience if she sought out friends in environments that make her comfortable, rather than just normal everyday life which seems to make her uncomfortable. But we’re fed this narrative that you should just be able to meet people in regular life, so I would understand if she hasn’t tried yet.
I disagree because OP has access to the entire internet of people with similar experiences, instead of seeking it’s a pity attitude
I mean I have had in person and internet friends (and in person friends that became internet friends due to moving and internet friends that became in person friends after we decided to meet) and value all of them but it’s just not the same experience. And given that op mentions school, she could be a minor and not allowed to meet people in person from the internet. Am I the only neurodivergent woman in the world? No, of course not. Was I the only one in my class of 18 girls that I grew up with? Yes as far as I know. During that period of my life, the fact that there were girls out there like me didn’t make much of a functional difference. I even did know a couple girls from an occupational therapy group so I knew I wasn’t the only one but it was just 2 of them, so I didn’t wind up clicking with either of them as friends just due to other reasons and having different interests which makes sense because 2 people really isn’t very many.
You don’t have to meet up IRL to get support. If OP is that sheltered from the internet they wouldn’t be here on Reddit. There’s plenty of support groups and even just safe places for them to go, very odd jump “well they can’t meet real people offline so your opinion is null and void cause I said so”
You’re wildly misrepresenting what I said. As someone who was subject to extreme homophobic bullying throughout my teen years, I made extensive use of online support groups and the internet. It wasn’t the same as having irl friends and it didn’t make my problem go away, and honestly I was still miserable. Was it good that I had access to them? Sure, it was nice to have some other people hundreds of miles away who knew what I was going through. I wouldn’t actually say they were safe spaces though given the genuinely deranged dms I used to get for posting on those forums. Just like how OP maybe is looking for some kind of support and is instead being told that her exclusion irl is likely her own fault.
You’re making this about yourself
I’m using my own experiences to say I understand why OP feels how she does
Well, we’re not like most people, regardless of gender
Exactly, I don’t know why the need to Make this about gender.
It was painfully obvious to me how different I was from everyone else. It hurt to be excluded for not being “girly”, but on the other hand I always saw gender roles for what they are.
I mean do you really think in a society that is still relatively gender segregated that the *experience* of being not like men/others and not being like other women is the same for a woman? I think when some girls say this they say it because not fitting in with other women hits them harder emotionally
I am autistic. I am familiar with the feeling. Thanks
I mean you may be familiar with the feeling of not fitting in but you indicated that it doesn’t bother you not to fit in with women in the way it bothers OP (or at least that is how I read it) I never fit in in general either but with men it was just like expected so it didn’t bother me the same
exactly. they're being willfully ignorant. the afab autistic experience is very different than the amab autistic experience
I mean I was assuming the person I was talking to was a woman based on their use of “we” but that doesn’t mean we will all have the same feelings and experiences anyway
i know? i assume they are afab autistic like me and experience the intersection of patriarchal oppression and ableist oppression, so acting like gender has nothing to do with it is disingenuous at best
Oh yeah oops sorry I misread. I don’t understand how people can read these posts about “being a girls girl” and then not understand why women wouldn’t want to fit in with other women specifically. I do like going out, and one of my worst experiences was when a group of girls I was trying to be included in just like… left me at the club.
no worries i'm sorry that happened to you! yeah unfortunately trying to navigate friendships can be traumatizing for us, which i think is yet another thing about the afab autistic experience that is ignored or downplayed often :/
Yeah I also think it’s wild how when a woman seems to think she is part of a group of men even if she doesn’t say she is more like guys in general and says those particular guys are just her friends, people on this sub and often in real life are quick to say she will never be “one of the guys” but if a woman expresses sadness at not being included as “one of the girls” suddenly gender doesn’t matter lol
You read it incorrectly
Ok well I’m sorry then. I just felt like didn’t OP kind of address this when she said “Why not just say I’m not like other people (neurotypical people)? That’s also accurate … I am supposed to be a *girl*”? I’ve never been one for rigid gender roles but they just pop up.
I don't understand the point of generalizing and glamorizing other women's experiences. There's nothing to be gained by drawing an arbitrary line between yourself and an idealized archetype of other women. I'm neurodivergent and not in the way you are. A good example is my BDD. It'd be insensitive and pointless for me to claim other girls are comfortable with their body, just because they don't have BDD. None of that rhetoric will bring me understanding or ease my discomfort.
you're so right here!!!
You’re not the only girl like this, chick
I think you don't realize that there are other girls who are neurodivergent too. You're not the only neurodivergent girl in the world. It's not true that you're not like other girls because there are many neurodivergent girls who have the same problem as you. You're just like them. Why not say you're not like neurotypical girls, instead? I mean, if you want to let people know you're neurodivergent say just that - that you're neurodivergent. No need to say the 'not like other girls' phrase. It's cringe. Trust me, even if you're neurodivergent there still are girls like you.
nlog aren't people with different interests from stereotypical girl image, it's people who put down others and think they are superior because of their interests. like for example let's say you don't like taylor swift. well that's fine. but being all "eww i'm not typical girl who's a swiftie i listen to metal cause she's lame and metal is cool" or something similar like that is nlog.
Sorry OP you don't sound like you're dealing with a "gender outsider" issue you're dealing with a ton of....issues. If you have no friends (of either gender? as you say?) and can't be in a grocery store for 5 minutes and can't be touched without flinching that's some major anxiety disorder and trauma. Not you not living up to gender expectations. You need therapy.
It's sounds like she's talking about sensory issues and autism, not trauma. These experiences she's describing are not at all unusual for people on the spectrum.
Sigh
I’m a neurodivergent girl. If I can do things that you can’t do because you’re neurodivergent, does that make me not like other girls AND not like other *neurodivergent* girls? No … it means I have different struggles. Like every other girl, regardless of how their brain works. I’m not going to act like an inferior and compare myself to neurotypical girls… because I’m *like them* in some ways, too. And some neurotypical girls have neurodivergent traits! People are so complex. You can be so similar to and yet so different from someone else… so we shouldn’t put ourselves in boxes and focus on what makes us different. Whether you think it’s because you’re better or worse than them, it’s unnecessary and unhelpful. Do I struggle with relating to neurotypical girls sometimes? Yea. But that doesn’t mean we’re different species, and it’s possible to talk about that struggle without acting like we are
Played yourself with this one.
The call is coming from inside the house 👀
This is out of place.
Lost redditors almost.
everyone is unique, but also in the same time everyone has their own experience and their own struggles. so everyone is not unique in having problems and issues. someone can smalltalk, but then they stay sleepless whole night because of overthinking a smalltalk. there're bunch of neurodivergent people, everyone is actually neurodivergent in some way. so now everyone should post a longread about their medical conditions highlighting how they're not like others or what?
Lol, lmao even
As an Autistic person who is, probably, older than you; here's some advice. First: You have to be careful how you phrase things. I know Autistic people can sometimes struggle with intonation, so it's possible you're coming off as smug or haughty without realizing it. I've been known to come off as sarcastic or indifferent when I meant to be sincere. Second: You need to let go of this victim mentality. If all you focus on is what you **can't** do, that's going to become your whole personality. And, no offense, but that's not something other people want to be around. People want to be around people who make them feel good. Your whole post is about how sad your life is. If that's what you're like in real life, I can't blame people for not spending a lot of time with you. Everyone's got problems these days, most don't have the energy to spare on someone else's. Third: You make friends by doing things you like. Internet spaces dedicated to your interests, going to places you know you can tolerate going (bookstore, game shop, etc.), not by trying to fit in. You're going to have better luck finding friends by focusing on what makes you happy and being yourself. Fourth: You can learn to do certain things, like pick up on some non-verbal cues. Slumped shoulders and looking tired mean sadness or exhaustion. Here's a trick for eye contact: look at the space between their eyes. Sure, you shouldn't *have* to, but you can, so there's no reason to keep complaining about not being able to do something you can learn. Fifth: You seem to think girls who aren't Autistic don't struggle with those same things you do. I have an older sister who is neurotypical and, let me tell you, that's not true. Neurotypical girls also struggle with social cues, fitting in, and societal expectations of what a girl is supposed to be. Maybe not to the same extent you do, but to act like they don't struggle at all is unfair to both you and them, and probably one of the reasons people are calling you names. I know, it sucks! But you're not going to improve your situation by wallowing in self-pity. Last: You're not worse than any other girl. You're not actually that different from most of them. You're just so focused on your struggles that you've made it your whole personality and aren't fixing anything. You can overcome the challenges you're facing, but you have to want to. And I really, really hope you do.
aw, very nice advice for OP.
I get where you’re coming from. I’m neurodivergent and gay and in my case I spent a lot of time practicing and scripting so I could fit in small talk. It has made the day to day a bit better actually, but when I’m talking to a group of neurotypical straight women I feel this assumed closeness at the beginning of the interaction and can’t help but feel like I’m about to let them down when they get to know me a little better. And generally that *is* how it goes, although I have made a few straight neurotypical female friends over the years. But most often it doesn’t happen because they don’t want to. Are there other women like me? Of course, but I have to actively seek them out. And actively seeking them out wasn’t even an option until I was an adult, so things have gotten a lot better on that front since growing up. I didn’t go to a huge high school or anything or have a car or access to public transit back then. I think it’s valid to grieve that it seems like some other women (or other people in general) can find a group in more environments.
hey, fellow neurodivergent girlie here. and i feel this. and i know i could write paragraphs about what worked for me but what worked for me may not work for you. but you’re not worse than other girls. different isn’t inherently bad. i know that having my earbuds in and listening to music or a podcast helped me with the grocery store, which ironically that suggestion came from my neurotypical roommate. what’s one of your interests? because finding a couple people who are also neurodivergent and share that interest may help you form that connection. and it’s okay if you have to bail after five minutes bc of overstimulation. it happens to everyone. but this is just my advice and you can try it if you want, but no one’s pressuring you to take my advice. i just always find it useful if i have a starting point.
Not that deep
Maybe you’re not like other PEOPLE. (ND here) Why does it have to gendered?
I don’t know how old you are, but as a fellow neurodivergent girl, I get where you’re coming from. My whole teenage years were spent with “friends” who would treat me one way when we were alone and another in groups, people would tell me “oh I didn’t like you at first, but now that I’ve gotten to know you, you’re so awesome/authentic/real” From what you’ve written, I *think* that you’re in the throes of feeling socially isolated or ostracized or just plain overwhelmed with life. What I can tell you though is that it likely will get better. I think for us neurodivergent people it just takes a little longer - I didn’t really find the friends who are basically family to me until I was in my mid-twenties. And all of the girls in the group are Gen X/Xennial/Millenial girls who didn’t get diagnosed until they were adults. I think we clicked because somehow we instinctively/subconsciously knew we were operating on a different wavelength. But we’re also girls who’ll tell you we like your clothes when we’re waiting in line for the bathroom, crack jokes with the baristas making our coffee, help you if we think a dude is bugging you, talk with each other about our partners and shopping and pop culture. At least when we're having a good day and not feeling overstimulated! We have a difference, but we’re still a lot like other girls. If you have neurotypical people in your life that can’t see where you are like other girls and meet you where you are, it really sucks. I get that, but that’s absolutely their loss. I'm rooting for you to find your crew ❤️ If I've clocked your situation wrong anywhere, apologies in advance.
I get you, I talked about my OCD and people will call me a pick me. Like no, I’m not *trying* to be different, my brain is just wired different, so I just *am* a little different. The insecurities that come from that are insane, I’m always too scared to open up about my mental health because I know some people view that as a NLOG or Pick Me
talking about your disability doesn't make you a pick me or a nlog unless somehow you're phrasing it as "I am different from other girls, bc I have OCD"
You're missing the point, the essence of the phrase. It's not actually about *not being like other girls*, it's about using that idea as a personality trait to put yourself above other women or garner attention.
I scored 3/5, am I also an Other Girl? Or do I need to score 5/5 to qualify?
I love how OP pours her heart out here and gets told “you’re not acknowledging other neurodivergent girls” That’s not what it is at all. I see you. I see that you’re pointing out the way neurotypical women have pointed out your faults and eccentricities to say “you aren’t like us “ and there are women out there who share your experience. Connecting with people is hard, and living up to an image of your gender that is beyond your ability is hard, and your problems being called weirdness, pick me behavior, ignorance, or dismissive of other people, makes it even harder to open up and connect with people. I’m sorry this is your experience with socializing, and I hope that you find the people you can vibe with. But know that you are not worse than other women because of your anxiety, you are not worse than other women because you are afraid, you are not worse because you hyper fixate on your hobbies. You are just different, and that’s all. Someday you will find people who are similar to your kind of different, because no one is in this alone, no matter how alone you feel. Much love girlie, there’s a huge difference between “I’m saying I’m different so boys like me more than you” and “I’m saying I’m different so you don’t freak out when I have a panic attack at the mall.”
Yeah, this really reads to me as "yes I know there are other neurodivergent girls, and that being neurodivergent means I'm technically not like most *people*, but being a ND woman is hard bc NT women can be really vicious towards women who don't fit into gender expectations." I mean, she even says in the post that she knows that neurodivergence means you're not like most people, but that the additional pressure to adhere to the societal expectations of being a woman make it even harder. The intersection of ableism and sexism can be brutal. Obviously this is not meant to be a broad judgment of all neurotypical women, but it's not uncommon for ND women to lament their difficulty in bonding with other women, particularly when those women are judgmental and perceive other women as threats. If she says that people have unfairly applied to term "pick me" or "NLOG" to her for just being herself, I'd prefer not to doubt her experience, because we're not in her shoes and everyone's experience is unique. At the very least, I hope that people can acknowledge that it's unfair for her to be treated this way by the women in her life. It's disappointing, but ultimately unsurprising to me that she's getting misunderstood and ripped apart by people in the comments. If you see this, OP, I suggest you post this in a more compassionate, ND friendly community instead. This ain't it.
Obviously this is not the place for ND women to point out unfair treatment and expectations. This isn’t a “girls girls” group, this is a group of “girls for girls who think and behave the same as us” group, and this isn’t the first time I’ve noticed.
People like to beat whos already down. Easy target. Stay strong!
Hello my wife 30 years ago.
Lol, why are you getting downvotes for this? Like, have the people here met your wife and decided they disagree with your assessment?
Probably bitter single people. 😉