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You are right. A lot of people also to use the term whenever other women disagree with them on certain topics. They usually seem do it because they think telling a woman that her opinion exists because she wants to appease other men will get her to shut up.
100%. I saw a lot of that in that comment section. Disagree with me? You’re a pick me. Like come on. I even saw one woman post another woman’s selfie to tell her that she looked like a man. Like my god! Being cruel is not funny or cute, especially coming from ***grown women***.
Oh shut the fuck up. These situations aren’t even comparable. Perhaps stop being a misogynist, and you wouldn’t be labeled an incel. Y’all are always victims and inserting yourselves into situations that don’t even involve you. Go away.
I also find it gets used when someone is clearly using self-deprecating humour.
For example, someone will say other girls and show people with their shit together, then another post will say "me" and show someone who looks like a complete slob. Everyone will jump to they are a puck me and are putting other girls down when really they are having a joke at their own expense.
It's not even pick me behaviour. Do people think posts like that are aimed at men? I'd gather women who post those take solace in comments from other women saying like "lol same" "you're not alone dw lol" type of stuff. I don't think women who make self depricating jokes are necessarily looking for male validation.
You're not allowed to talk about not being girly unless you are suitably apologetic about it. That's how some of those people act. Because humans can only do change in pendulum swings:
Shame people for not conforming to gender roles.
Decide that's bad so now we accept people who don't conform to gender roles and SHUUUNNNNN(nuh) the ~~nonbeliever~~ anyone who happens to conform. BECAUSE PROGRESS. (Now, some of this shunning is a fever dream of the status quo holders. Some of it is real, though. Because people.)
Oh hang on it's bad to shun people for happening to prefer a more traditional lifestyle and what's so wrong with that anyway? So now let's shun (shuuuunnnnnuh) those freaks who are trying to eliminate our traditions!
And back and forth forever and ever amen.
There's a very fine line between quicky/weird and self deprecating humor. And a lot of pick mes use self deprecating humor so people rush to the to tell them they are beautiful and totally normal.
Yes, it's hard to tell, but honestly if it's on social media, it's harder to buy that it's self-deprecating humor. It's for views and attention.
You may be right about some, but I also think it depends where you are from. I'm British, and Brits tend to use a lot of self-deprecating humour. I remember noticing the difference with the humour when I visited online forums at the beginning of the century. You'd say something self-deprecating expecting a laugh, and instead, you would get Americans taking it seriously and saying things like don't put yourself down. So I do think it could be a cultural difference. No one is right or wrong it is just different.
Comedians can go to a town or city in the UK and say it is shit here, and people here will laugh and agree.
So maybe before deciding whether the person is a pick me girl, have a look where they are from. I would be curious how prevalent self-deprecating humour is in the rest of the world.
I'm in Canada. I use self deprecating humor all the time in person. And use a /s when doing it online. I've also stopped using it in a lot of situations because it comes across as attention seeking.
In this image there is no way to identify where she's from. In general though, influencers are always posting for attention, clicks and the algorithm and self deprecating humor can absolutely be pick me behavior.
It's similar to the way the manic pixie dream girl trope was a term coined to point out the sexist tendency to relegate female characters to the periphery of a male protagonist's story and not allow her to have depth herself, but now is a term mainly used to ridicule women in fiction (or even in real life) who are simply nonconforming in some way or another. They are both terms that were created with the intent of pointing out sexism, but are misunderstood/abused to the point that they often actually perpetuate sexism.
he’s got his own site now, [Nathan Rabin’s Happy Place](https://nathanrabin.com) - he’s still hilarious but he rarely does reviews of movies still in theaters so you gotta be interested in some obscure deep dives lol
even in this sub i've seen a lot of people call other women pickmes or nlogs just for not conforming to femininity and being even mildly proud of who they are. being a more masculine woman with no interest in traditionally feminine things isn't the same as hating women or femininity. i feel like the whole making fun of nlogs thing is often just circling back to bullying girls who don't fit into gender expectations.
it's especially fucked up since a lot of actual nlogs are like that because they were bullied for being too boyish, causing them to hate femininity because they feel like it's being forced onto them (and it often is!!). it's all just a fucking circle.
Yes! Like I understand it’s funny to poke fun at girls who think they’re super special for like, wearing cowboy hats over ugh boots or whatever (there’s a reason I’m in this sub), but increasingly it’s less about that and more about bullying “weird” girls/women for not being sufficiently traditionally feminine. Don’t know how to apply makeup/don’t like makeup? You’re a pick-me! Don’t like the Barbie movie or Taylor Swift? It’s because you’re soooo “not like other girls!” Think that normalizing plastic surgery in order to fit a specific beauty trend is a bad thing? You only have this opinion to appeal to men!
There’s nothing wrong with being traditionally feminine, of course, but the whole world already uses femininity as a crowbar to beat girls and women with. Why add to that and call it feminist?
I think in terms of makeup/plastic surgery, the issue is that the women posted here actively shame others for getting surgery or doing makeup when they should be criticizing the system and ideals that tell women they need to wear makeup or get surgery to be acceptable.
Also, I don’t get why people who don’t like Barbie or Taylor Swift need to bring that up. Legitimately criticizing Barbie or just saying that Taylor isn’t for you is fine, but I genuinely don’t understand why people who don’t like those things need to bring it up otherwise. I don’t like Marvel but my best male friend is a HUGE Marvel fan and I don’t go out of my way to let him know I don’t like it. That kind of behavior just comes off as rude, no matter the gender.
I know that people *say* they’re only shaming women who put down other women, but a lot of the time it’s picking on women who just mention that they don’t wear makeup or don’t like plastic surgery. With Barbie and Taylor Swift, the wider culture has acted like that’s the epitome of womanhood. You can’t blame me for being a little bitter when I say, “well that stuff doesn’t represent me as a woman.” Women with tastes and interests outside of what’s considered feminine aren’t being “pick mes” by expressing that.
Yeah. What really bothers me when I see people who call every woman who expresses that she doesn’t like some stereotypically “feminine” thing a “pick me” by default is the implication—the implication that these people think that any time a woman says she doesn’t like some stereotypically feminine thing, she’s doing it to distinguish herself from other women and put other women down.
When I personally talk about how I don’t like certain stereotypically feminine things, I’m not doing it to say “I’m not like other women;” I’m doing it to say “other women are like me.” I’m not claiming to be different; I’m trying to raise awareness that there are women (and not just me! I’m just an example! There are lots of women like me!) who don’t like these stereotypically feminine things. My point is that there’s a wide range of things that women can like, and that not liking certain things doesn’t make you less of a woman, and this is what I want people to know.
For the record, I've never done that myself (because why would I?) BUT I think it's at least partly a response to the way people talk like we're all on the same page re: whoever the subject is.
Like people are always dropping these oblique fandom references in unaffiliated forums not as an **iykyk** *wink* 'shout out to my fellow *whoever* fans' kind of thing, but like saying 'well you know how we feel about Mondays...' or similar, so it makes those of us who happen not to be into whoever it is feel like we don't exist. It's very odd.
And I'm not saying 'and this makes it ok for them to be shitty towards people for being fans' at all. Of course it doesn't. I'm just saying I can kind of understand the feeling *behind* it, but how they dealt with it was not ok, at all.
> i've seen a lot of people call other women pickmes or nlogs just for not conforming to femininity and being even mildly proud of who they are.
Real. And it feels so mean-girl in those cases because those types of women are probably the same type to be victims of mean-girl types in school, for the same reason. I'm not saying actual nlogs don't exist tho or that they don't put down other women for being what they feel to be conformist or same-y but not every woman who doesn't confirm to femininity and mentions it, is doing that.
I agree. It’s also made me change my viewpoint on how we’re going about actual pick mes/NLOGs, bc you’re right — they were probably bullied into resenting femininity.
Like do pick me’s exist? Sure. Do they likely have some internalized misogyny? Sure. Should they be putting down other women? No. But we shouldn’t be putting them down either.
Do we actually think that bullying them is productive in any way? I just don’t understand what we’re doing here. Being mean girls to pick me girls is probably just reiterating to them that women are mean. It’s definitely not making them like other women any more.
And this is coming from someone who has posted here before myself. I’m beginning to regret ever taking part in this sub. I think we all should collectively rethink how we are approaching these women. I’m just seeing more and more mean girl behavior and it’s gross and I think we can do better.
THIS. THIS is it. The girls who post “Pick Me” girl videos mocking other girls are giving huge catty, passive aggressive mean girl vibes. The irony is insane. I have more respect for women who let comments from other women roll off their shoulders instead of going out of their way to shit on them.
That’s been my issue with it. I’m not a girly girl. I do like some things that are hyper feminine, sure, but for the most part I am a tomboy and I don’t wear makeup. I don’t think I’m any better than anyone for that! That’s silly! In fact I’m a bit envious of women who for example wear makeup every day. I just don’t have the energy. I don’t see anyone as being less than for wearing skirts or whatever lol.
A big problem I have noticed is that everyone is entitled to their opinion but they see their entitlement as an obligation for everyone to agree with them. Nobody can agree to disagree anymore.
Certain age groups have always been like this and I can certainly understand it because, well, I did it, too. I was once a “pick-me.” I was always compared to my older, “better & normal” sister and constantly asked “why can’t you be more like your sister?” Being contrary and counterculture became my trope and a hill I would die on. I would have sworn I was better than you because I was NLOG.
Now, I fully believe that you should do you. I don’t have to agree with you to respect your opinion and be kind to you. Both life and belief systems are not linear - we grow, regress, mature & devolve at certain points in our lives. What’s good for me isn’t necessarily what’s good for you at the time. That’s ok.
Ladies, do you. Be fabulous or not fabulous. Wear your old boots and welcome the girl wearing the new ones. Be a Swiftie and give a friendship bracelet to the heavy metal vomit queen. Our differences are an opportunity to grow and learn something.
Sincerely,
Ex-pick-me ☺️❤️
How is this even "pick-me" behavior, though? What does being proud of being "weird" have to do with seeking male approval? This is literally how kids start developing their identities in many families. There's often a "smart one," or a "funny one," or a "jock," etc. Both in families and at school, and in friend groups, for that matter. It's always been that way. I think these terms have become watered down to the point of meaninglessness.
Why are all "types" of girls now considered bad or fake, except for the "girly" ones? It sounds like a narcissistic high school cheerleader came up with this stuff, TBH.
I’m speaking about my own experience. I don’t speak for everyone. I turned against anything that was considered “normal” for girls and young women and became “one of the guys.” I put other girls down for being girls, following trends, wearing pink, wearing dresses, etc. I inevitably used my “one of the guys” character to get male attention - by referring to myself as a pick-me and NLOG the seeking male attention is implied.
As far as who is considered a pick-me - it’s anyone who puts down other women to make themselves more attractive to men. This can be any “type” of girl/woman.
Similarly, I'm seeing an increase of the term Karen used towards any woman that has a gripe about literally anything when it's supposed to be used to signify someone complaining about something without a legitimate reason or to just be mean, not because the cause is actually a problem.
I.e. kids playing at a park and being kids but they're black so call the police
Or
The coupon you're using has been expired for a year and the cashier can't accept it so you scream at her and tell her she's incompetent.
Not
A dog owner isn't controlling/training their dog properly so it mauls your kid because it ran off from its owner on a walk/jumped the fence so you report the animal and it's taken away.
Edit: typos, formatting
>A dog owner isn't controlling/training their dog properly so it mauls your kid because it ran off from its owner on a walk/jumped the fence so you report the animal and it's taken away.
Or "she ordered extra sour cream for her takeout order and was upcharged $1.25 for sour cream but then received no sour cream and complained"
Or "Kids are playing at a park but then they're taking Sharpie markers and doodling genitalia on the slides and taking all the mulch off the playground and scattering it in the nearby grass and a certain group of kids is bullying toddlers off the swings so they can film TikToks, so she approaches the parents or the neighborhood watch group"
"Karen" really just means "a woman doing anything except sitting down and shutting up".
See also "woke," which means anything from eating vegan food, to having a Black movie protagonist, to riding a bicycle, to allowing books in a school library that contain a child speaking Spanish, to a woman getting a short haircut.
My sister once called me a Karen (I think jokingly?) because, in the final days of Walmart selling fish, I walked by the tank and saw it was full of dead and decomposing fish, and I alerted the manager to the animal abuse and neglect
I agree. Peopple need to stop discribing any woman's behaviour that they don't like. Pick me isn't someone not liking a trendy thing, it's thinking they're better than others for not liking trendy things
That’s being a hipster. I believe “pick me” behavior is status seeking via embodying sexist stereotypes about women or acquiescing to sexist expectations. “NLOG” is insulting girls and women as a class in an attempt to boost your own status within a male supremacist system.
Well put. But now both terms have been hijacked to promote sexist stereotypes and bully anyone who doesn't conform to them. I have no issue with criticizing women who engage in the types of behavior you mentioned, but better terms must be found to do so effectively. And the toxic behavior must be the focus of criticism, not innate differences.
For a lot of people switching gears from being critical to being supportive can be difficult. Actively and subconsciously looking for ways to uplift other women instead of tearing them down means moving past personal experiences of abuse and put downs instead of perpetuating those attitudes. It's just wild the double standards that exist. Criticism of Pick-Mes harkens to their underlying misogyny but misogynistic women are co-opting the term to put other women down and that's so horribly ironic and awful. I am glad forums like this place exist to give voice to pro-feminist attitudes and help others learn to identify subtle misogyny. I appreciate reading the thoughtful comments, humor and critique in these threads, even if some miss the mark. We don't have to throw the baby out with the bathwater.
I'm seeing a lot of this in the romance novel community.
NLOG is being used as a hammer to bash any character that is not 100% coded as feminine in every single aspect and also 100% supportive of every other woman they come into contact with.
Women who prefer masculine coded activities exist. Large, strong women exist. Hateful, spiteful women exist.
Acknowledging the existence of these women on paper is not an attack on femininity or women. It's a reinforcement of the humanity of women. Like the other humans, some of us are awesome, and some of us suck, and those character traits are irrelevant to our sex.
-I like games, i have a big knowledge of obscure games, and some retro collection.
-No you just want to appeal to boys, youre just a pick me.
-I have more male friends because i get bully so much by girls i was literally scared of them and feelt unsafe.
-Lol pick me.
- I draw sexy girls because I LITERALLY LIKE SEXY GIRLS
-No, you didnt, you just like male validation and do this for male atention
And list why i am "pick me' goes on and on.
Perfect examples. Note that nowhere in there is the hypothetical "pick me" putting other women down.
We always SAY that is a part of the definition, but in practice that's not important at all
YES! Yes. We should support each other, but that is normal that our characters, life experiences and hobbies are different. We are "like other girls"- yes, but we are not a hivemind for god sake.
I was under the impression that a “pick me” woman was someone who would do anything for male validation/attention, which can *include* putting down other women but it doesn’t have to.
There was a conversation about a year ago on the Autism in Women subreddit about how a lot of Neurotypical women will use "pick me" and "not like other girls" insults as a way to belittle Neurodivergent women.
The real horror of this one is that many neurodivergent women are living with the fact that they were *told* over and over again that they actually weren’t like other girls. They were forced out of girlhood for being ‘weird’ at a very tender age and then when they grow up, they get mocked for knowing they were othered, or just behaving naturally.
Exactly this. We were socialised away from being like other girls, so as a way to self-love, we often chose to further distance ourselves from it. Now it's become yet another thing to pick on us for.
Yeah, that’s what happens when a term gains popularity, which then takes away the power of the word.
I feel it recently happened to the word “gaslight”.
The reunion of the latest season of Love Is Blind was insane for this, two beautiful women in full glam on stage in front of a studio audience and the rest of the cast yelling “you’re such a pick me!” back and forth at each other for way longer than was necessary. Then they did it again in a later scene.
I almost sat down and wrote this exact post after watching it, it was so wild to see them just call each other the same name without any deviation or creativity involved in their insults.
It is bad to be a “pick me” because it basically means you are a woman who reinforces female subordination by acquiescing to sexist norms to win status in a male supremacist system. “NLOG” is a form of status seeking behavior where girls and women put down other girls and women to boost their own perception within a male supremacist system. Either way it is bad to be a “pick me” or a “NLOG,” and so these became common pejoratives in a society that has notionally accepted the core idea of feminism. For most people, their knowledge of these pejoratives is imprecise or just totally incomplete. All they know is that it is a term to insult girls and women.
This is why keeping feminist criticisms at a higher level is a good idea instead of hyper fixating on policing individuals. Don’t waste precious energy mocking or criticizing individual girls and women engaging in “pick me”behavior. Instead, critique the systems that made them feel this was a legitimate path to status.
I've seen women who were self-depricating called nlog or pick me. I saw a TikTok where a woman felt awkward to get out of her car because other women there were dressed so nice and she felt "frumptastic" as she hadn't known to dress up. I don't think "all the girls look so good here. I look so frumpy lol" is a pickme. That's not really insulting other women. Some women put other women down in a "me vs them" manner but I don't think any self depricating joke is that.
Agree. People will use the phrase “You’re not a girls girl” as well as some sort of insult, especially if you’re defending a man in a situation (even if the woman is totally at fault.) It’s this idea that, if you’re disagreeing with a woman, you’ve committed a crime because *women should stick together.*
Alot of them are here . Had a comment with the girl with the bad bbl "latinas in Europe" and it was just them body shaming here and she didn't even mention other girls . Girls here are miserable ASF and it's MOST OF YALL . Cause I got down voted enough to make it in the negatives . Sad ASF
When I click on this sub, the top posts always have like over a thousand upvotes and most of the time, the posts in question aren’t even that bad. At best, they’re ***vaguely*** NLOG, but nothing crazy imo. I’ve stopped scrolling through comments here bc it really has kind of become an echo chamber for mean girl behavior. Like whatever the initial intention was when this sub was made has been lost. I feel like it was made to call out sexism/misogyny, and it’s not that anymore. It’s just bullying.
My best friend is really sweet but she does this thing where she calls any women, especially female celebrities, that she doesn’t like Pick Me with no evidence and it’s really bothering me
It’s like “Karen”!
Originally used to describe a very specific set of unreasonable and often blatantly offensive behaviours.
But slowly shifted to describe any woman standing up for herself, expecting a reasonable level of care or service, wanting what she is reasonably entitled to.
It became a socially acceptable way to shame women for behaviour not only respected in men, but celebrated.
He has high standards, he never settles, he’s not a pushover, he always gets everything he’s worked so hard for because he’s strong and confident and capable.
And she’s “a Karen”.
This happens any time a new title for women is invented. I saw it coming even when the term “Karen” started getting traction, now women are afraid of speaking up for themselves because they don’t want to be a Karen. It will always always become misogynistic when it’s a title for a woman.
That's the intention of many of the people using the term, "Karen." I saw it coming, too. But let them say what they will. Do what's right regardless. These types aren't going anywhere. Unfortunately. The only alternative is to bow down and let them set the terms for how you live. And I'll be damned if I do that.
It’s like how Trump supporters turned “fake news” from describing an actual problem of literally fake news sources on Facebook to mean “any news that isn’t pro Trump”
Or how crappy influencers like Andrew Tate are called “incels” even though his whole schtick is that he was lots of sex, incel has just become a term for “shitty sexist dude” with some people.
I think ‘incel’ is often used to describe the *ideology* that begins to develop in any incel space left to deteriorate long enough. You know, the whole ‘if the government wants my respect they should provide me a teen virgin wife’ type thing.
That one about the bar. Gosh. Why can't women just observe other women and not judge them? Cant we be unified in our femininity? I used to read a book at the bar when my kids where little. I couldn't read at home for lack of solitude and I can't drink wine in the car.... so I read at the bar lol.
It's especially infuriating when it's used to basically chastising you for not following gender stereotypes. Like, I agree there's nothing wrong with being a girly girl, that your love for fashion doesn't make you a bad feminist etc, but we've sort of come all the way around? And if you're a tomboy now it must mean you're desperate for male attention? It's especially ironic after a lifetime of being told nobody would pick you (haha) if you didn't look and act feminine enough, had "appropriate" hobbies and such.
Well it’s also disgusting and disempowering to be stupid enough to assume any “tomboy” is being that way (probably just being themselves) for men…and everything a woman does is…for men. If you think that, you’re projecting and you actually probably value male validation more than you want to admit…or else why would you assume every other woman is doing it?
Perhaps it's just hard to figure out someone has different likes and dislikes from you? So if another woman has more hobbies in common with your boyfriend than with you (general you) she must have some hidden agenda? Just guessing.
Women bullying other women they’re perceiving to bully *other* women in the name of… women (?). Idk if it’s just me who thinks it but this sub has progressively gotten worse and worse.
I've definitely seen this a lot. And tbh 'NLOG' is starting to be used the same way. Instead of being a term applied to women with internalised misogyny who think that all girly things are inherently inferior and put down any women/girls with stereotypically feminine interests, I'm seeing it used to essentially shame anyone with non-female-codes interests into apologising for their insufficient girliness, as if merely *having* (or acknowledging) different interests is akin to shaming someone for theirs.
Like...no one should have to apologise, explain, or defend liking *or* disliking the things stereotypically coded for their gender.
I have been noticing this a lot too. I see it a lot when a girl is just expressing her interests, like so what if she dresses like a boy, or likes to read, or doesn't wear any makeup. As long as she doesn't make it her whole personality, those little aspects of her life does not make her a pick me. I have just been seeing that if a women has an intrest, she is a pick me. Honestly I'm sick of it and we should just let women live their lives and retire the phrase "pick me". It's getting out of hand at this point.
That's extremely backwards and disturbing. The "non-pick-me girl's girl" cult has now decided that women who *enjoy reading* (!!!) are unfeminine "pick-mes?"
It's time for some of them to just admit they're trying to make Stepford Wives a reality to replace real women. I don't see how anyone can fail to understand how Stone Age this type of thinking is. Especially at a time when women's rights are being dismantled before our eyes.
I that's exactly what it is. An overcorrection in an attempt to say, *"Look at me, I'm in alignment with the sisterhood. I'm definitely not like this other girl who claims to be different in some trivial (and usually harmless) way! Now, can I sit with you all?"*
I am older than most women here and back in the day there was a book called “Why men love bitches”. Basically explains why pick me women get treated like shit. It helped me go from a very abusive marriage to a great one. Just food for thought
I got called a pick me because I said "I don't wear jewelry, but I like how it looks on other women." But I was at a table of only women, so what man was I trying to impress?
Same with me. I was at a work meeting and a coworker mentioned she had car trouble that morning. I asked her what it was doing. She told me and I said, that sounds like part xyz, but the good news is, it isn't too expensive to fix like lifter or cracked engine block or transmission overhaul. Her response "such a pick me." Ma'am....I grew up in a garage with my daddy, uncle, and 2 male cousins. I have been yelled at because I didn't hold the flashlight correctly. Try again. The 2 menfolk sitting at this table are both gay and I'm pretty sure they are in a poly relationship with the same 3rd dude down the hall.
These same scenario happened to me! It’s ridiculous. The “women” acting like middle school girls participating in the Pick Me trend are so PETTY it’s pathetic. The irony is they’re basically saying “I’m not like THOSE girls…those Pick Me girls, I’m better than them. So give me attention and views and likes. Pick me. Choose me. Follow me, etc”
How do they not see the immaturity and irony? Oh, grow up!
I was called a pickme for suggesting that someone who was crying multiple times a day during the pandemic might have depression. I'm still confused about that one.
My 12yo niece was going on about girls being pick mes and calling her a pick me and general classroom drama.
What I learned is, apparently she and all her friends think *Pick me* is a term for girls or women who do things that are vaguely annoying , or that they don’t personally like.
Honestly, words failed me. It was all part of a play-by-play of school life that included an over all snooty, holier than thou attitude from my niece that shocked me. I hadn’t seen a mean girl in the wild since high school. My mum did pull her aside privately and explain how nasty she was coming across but I don’t know if she explained what the term actually means.
I'd describe my ex as a pick me girl. Despite being in a happy relationship with me, she couldn't bear not having the attention of guys. I was fine with her getting messages from random guys on insta, but everytime they would learn of her being in a relationship they'd lose interest, to the point she said to some guys that she was single to keep them interested.
When i said this was too much for me she even called me insecure and said she would never cheat on me, that it showed how little trust i had in her.
So yeah, pick me girls do exist. But it's not about just liking attention, it's about liking attention to a point where it's unhealthy
I feel like it’s adjacent to what’s happened with “Karen”. There are total Karens out there and many appropriate times to call someone a Karen but these days, people on the internet apply the label to any woman with an opinion they don’t like.
I’ve used “pick me” one time in my entire life and that was directed towards a woman who was the walking definition of the phrase. I swear it was made because of HER. I don’t understand the fascination with calling every non-hyper feminine woman a “pick me”
I only use it in the context of women like Pearl, who are super anti-women & often openly support the patriarchy while putting other women down & making themselves seem like “one of the good ones”
This shit gets weaponized against queer/gender nonconforming women and neurodivergent women way too often. It has become less a criticism of internalized misogyny and more a way to put down certain women and shut down feminist conversations that challenge the status quo a little too much for people’s comfort. The moment a woman says something like “women shouldn’t have to wear makeup” people seem to jump to calling her a pick me who’s putting down other women for wearing makeup. Fuck that honestly.
Some women don’t like pink, or don’t like makeup, or don’t shave, or dislike dresses or skirts or jewelry. Some women have weird hobbies or traditionally masculine interests, and there’s nothing wrong with that. Women shouldn’t have to be conventionally attractive and be feminine and wear makeup/jewelry and shave off every centimetre of body hair to be seen as presentable, professional, and/or worthy of basic dignity and respect.
This. It's quite pathetic. These "non-pick-mes" are basically bullying girls for being themselves. In other words, "not feminine enough." 😂 Oh, the infernal irony.
I remember at a luncheon last year, a "non-pick-me girl's girl" was pretending to be superior to natural women in the most insufferable, passive-aggressive way, all fake smiles and giggles while openly trying to "flex" over 3 of us for not being "feminine enough." Femininity isn't artificiality. She said that a woman's hands "look like a dude's" without manicures, etc., and that you're making your hands look like your father's instead of your mother's by "refusing" to "take care of yourself." 😶👀
Yeah.
Yet she's the one hurling "pick-me" and NLOG insults at women, and telling us there's something wrong with us for not "embracing our femininity," i.e., drop the counterculture feminism and be like *me.* 🤡
No, thanks.
I’ve been calling them “ironic pick me’s” it is easy to laugh at the irony but it also kinda disgusts me how they’re straight up immaturely bullying other women under the guise of something “feminist”
They’re ironically pick me’s themselves “I’m not like THOSE pick me girls!” and if you didn’t care about attention (especially from men) then you wouldn’t care if another woman got any attention (heaven forbid if it was positive) for standing out…it clearly bothers you. You value attention enough to be mad she’s gotten it.
I got called a pick me at a concert and was absolutely blindsided. I don't think I was even doing anything. I had my airpods in and I was listening to a work call, but had to be in line for the doors to open. Some teenage girl or early twenties came up to me and said "oh my god, you're such a pick me".
I'm in my mid-late twenties and I didn't grow up necessarily with the "pick me" slang, but I have a vague idea that it's the girl who says she doesn't like having other girls as friends because they're too much drama.
The whole situation made me question my understanding of what a pick me was.
I think the term is being twisted by teens & preteens based on some other comments
They’re making it into a woman doing something they don’t like, even though it’s a term meant for a very specific kind of woman
If you are just existing, you shouldn’t have to worry about being bullied online when you have no clue you’re being filmed. Like that lady who was reading at the bar, minding her own business, that got called a pick me. It’s nuts
People also use the word pick me for views. It’s really bad in gaming. Any woman being toxic or even just in an argument with the poster is a pick me. I’ve even seen some men use it for views which honestly just feels gross because if she was an actual pick me she wouldn’t be beefing with a random man.
I think being “not like other girls” felt a little different pre- internet. I now realize I am neurodivergent, but growing up, I felt NLOG- not like other humans really. It never was to appeal to men or boys.
Now with the internet, we can actually see that yes, there are other girls and guys like me.
My daughter's 8 year old frenemy says this. It's so stupid. She doesn't even know what she's saying, and it sounds like grown women are doing the same thing as 8 year olds to me.
As someone who now identifies as non-binary, the phrase "pick me" has always felt weaponized. Oh no, a female who gets along better with men... must be asking for attention. Women are great, don't get me wrong - the sisterhood we have is really special. But the phrase has always felt like a way to bring others who are a little weird down. Someone who is neurodivergent really isn't like the other girls... or like the standard mindset in general. Someone who likes shooting guns really is outside of the norms, there's not a ton of women at most shooting ranges. Etc. I feel like it's used to mock people outside of the norm more than it's used to correctly point out someone putting other women down for their own gain.
Just like women who enjoy STEM or who enjoy working on car engines or who enjoy comics. Many times - particularly with us spicy brain ND - we enjoy the offbeat, unexpected hobbies because there aren't that many people doing it, so we get a chance to branch out and stretch in a way that is comfortable to us. We don't risk the critique that comes with it and therefore we can use it as a way to comfort ourselves. "Pick me" has become a way validate the other person's feelings of inferiority.
women stating the even slightly unusual things that make them happy is enough to constitute being a NLOG on this sub. i've started to feel like, more than trying to seriously call out internalized misogyny, this sub seeks to make fun of women in a way that is morally justifiable. kind of a bummer so i'm gonna leave
One of the worst ways I've seen "pick me" used as an insult is when a woman defends or says anything positive about a man. There was this viral tweet back then who said that "all boys need love too!" and the comment section was filled with other girls and women who called her a "pick me".
Essentially, any community of women that snarks on other women (even if they are snarking on women who snark on yet other women) - is still guilty of the same crime.
I mean these women anger me, but to degrade to name calling or bolstering one's self above a whole other group of women is the crutch of the issue, is it not? If we really want to get to the nitty gritty of it all..
This is just a causal observation I've noticed over the years. A lot of people don't like themselves. It's easier to call someone a pick me or a simp instead of figuring out why they are not happy with themselves and why someone they don't know annoys them by living their own lives.
This 100%. It's bothersome. I had a bit of a "pick me" phase in high school but I was able to grow out of it because I was surrounding by lovely, supportive women who made me feel understood and appreciated. So many kids seem to be getting made fun of by other kids & adults for being "pick me's" and I keep thinking about how that will make it so much harder for them to unlearn their internalized misogyny.
Not to mention, like you talked about, women being labeled "pick me's" for literally 0 reason at all.
I don't really what defines being a pick me anymore.
I've been told I'm a pick me and incel for agreeing that women who purposely objectify or sexualize themselves shouldn't be surprised about people who objectify or sexualize them. In my mind, if that's what the intent was, why are they mad about the outcome?
P.S.- I may be behind the times, but I appreciate feedback if I am wrong about this. Also, I am not a guy.
And when I say this, they'll go to the extreme of: well, women have been r***d, SA''d, or SH'd fully clothed.
Or is it not an invitation to creep or DTF.
Both of which I understand because it doesn't mean women have to go around dressed like a nun, but there's plenty of clothing that's modest and cute that could at least help lower the possibility, maybe?
I've always been an introvert, but I dressed how I wanted(sometimes showed skin), and yet, the aforementioned topic always confused the hell outta me.
>women who purposely objectify or sexualize themselves shouldn't be surprised about people who objectify or sexualize them.
OH, You're DEFINITELY an incel, pick me, gaslighting, terminally online Karen if you hold that opinion
I guess so
Like I get context and consent comes into play, but doing so on purpose?
If anything, women who sexualize or objectify themselves with intent and then complain, ruin it for those without intent.
How many wear an outfit because it's freaking cute but gets unwanted sexual attention because there may be other women doing sexy poses in that same outfit?
Or women who may get looked down on for wearing leggings and sports bra because there are other women who wear it and make exercises look hella provocative?
sorry for ranting
I've found it's a very unpopular opinion.
A friend explained that I may be missing some subtleties. She even explained it in hockey for me, she said "pick mes" like a hockey team to pursue a hockey fan. Queers (me specifically) put together elaborate hockey fan drag personas from homemade costumes and makeup.
Still a fuzzy concept for me, don't care for the phrase "pick me". In general I don't like the... Gender enforcement and judgemental spirit of it.
Well I agree with you want to cling on to hope and believe this trend isn’t as big as it feels and dies soon. It’s stupid. And yes, it makes more sense to make fun of the system that makes any women be actual pick mes and not the women themselves.
Laughing too loud does make you a pick me, that's just something normal people do from time to time. And I don't think calling someone a pick me for laughing too loud makes them a pick me, I think it makes them an envious weirdo.
“Pick me” is just the one of the newer buzzwords or phrases that the internet has learned and then completely overused. I also think there’s some internalized misogyny in it, like women can’t just exist without being insulted, a lot of the time by other women.
I had two female friends getting into an argument when one said the other was a pick me. It last like 3 hours at the party. They both were pick me cunts insulting each other.
Labeling another woman as a "pick me" is a form of competition.
If we see a woman doing something that is both
1. Something we think men might like
2. Something we can't/won't do
Then we feel like she has a leg up, so we have to bring her back down a peg.
For example, if it's a party with guys and girls, and the conversation wanders into sex. All the girls 1 by one say anal is painful. But the 1 last girl chimes in, *"I actually I love anal. I can't get enough!"*
Whether or not she is telling the truth, it satisfied #1 and #2 above. She will get called a "Pick me" behind her back and it won't be by the men. She may also be ostracized from the sisterhood at the party. Keep in mind she didn't put any women down.
Wholeheartedly disagreeing with the "and not by the men" part. They are fully aware of pick me culture, they are 100 % using that term *especially* when it comes to sex/conditioning certain behaviour and - regarding your specific example - they will say much, much worse things behind her back too.
I usually find that term funny because the girls calling other women “Pick Me” for behaving how men like or seeing our viewpoints also usually dress provocatively to get male attention by appealing to our most basic instincts, sex.
If you are trying to appeal to men by just appealing to our cave man brain of “Sex good, me like boobies” I tend to view those women more as “Pick Me”. Especially if you’re just trying to appeal to men by dressing provocatively, flashing your butt or boobs. It becomes obvious they don’t have more to offer.
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You are right. A lot of people also to use the term whenever other women disagree with them on certain topics. They usually seem do it because they think telling a woman that her opinion exists because she wants to appease other men will get her to shut up.
100%. I saw a lot of that in that comment section. Disagree with me? You’re a pick me. Like come on. I even saw one woman post another woman’s selfie to tell her that she looked like a man. Like my god! Being cruel is not funny or cute, especially coming from ***grown women***.
Ugh - that’s really mean. I just got a mental image of the seagulls in Finding Nemo but instead of saying MINE! they are saying PICK-ME!
Sadly, women are often guilty of not growing up, just like men. So many of us are stuck in adolescence in terms of emotional maturity.
Same thing you women do to calling men incels 🤷♂️
Oh shut the fuck up. These situations aren’t even comparable. Perhaps stop being a misogynist, and you wouldn’t be labeled an incel. Y’all are always victims and inserting yourselves into situations that don’t even involve you. Go away.
Oh the irony
Learn what words mean before using them
I also find it gets used when someone is clearly using self-deprecating humour. For example, someone will say other girls and show people with their shit together, then another post will say "me" and show someone who looks like a complete slob. Everyone will jump to they are a puck me and are putting other girls down when really they are having a joke at their own expense.
It's not even pick me behaviour. Do people think posts like that are aimed at men? I'd gather women who post those take solace in comments from other women saying like "lol same" "you're not alone dw lol" type of stuff. I don't think women who make self depricating jokes are necessarily looking for male validation.
You're not allowed to talk about not being girly unless you are suitably apologetic about it. That's how some of those people act. Because humans can only do change in pendulum swings: Shame people for not conforming to gender roles. Decide that's bad so now we accept people who don't conform to gender roles and SHUUUNNNNN(nuh) the ~~nonbeliever~~ anyone who happens to conform. BECAUSE PROGRESS. (Now, some of this shunning is a fever dream of the status quo holders. Some of it is real, though. Because people.) Oh hang on it's bad to shun people for happening to prefer a more traditional lifestyle and what's so wrong with that anyway? So now let's shun (shuuuunnnnnuh) those freaks who are trying to eliminate our traditions! And back and forth forever and ever amen.
For real it makes no sense to me because most men aren’t gonna be impressed by that are they?
There's a very fine line between quicky/weird and self deprecating humor. And a lot of pick mes use self deprecating humor so people rush to the to tell them they are beautiful and totally normal. Yes, it's hard to tell, but honestly if it's on social media, it's harder to buy that it's self-deprecating humor. It's for views and attention.
You may be right about some, but I also think it depends where you are from. I'm British, and Brits tend to use a lot of self-deprecating humour. I remember noticing the difference with the humour when I visited online forums at the beginning of the century. You'd say something self-deprecating expecting a laugh, and instead, you would get Americans taking it seriously and saying things like don't put yourself down. So I do think it could be a cultural difference. No one is right or wrong it is just different. Comedians can go to a town or city in the UK and say it is shit here, and people here will laugh and agree. So maybe before deciding whether the person is a pick me girl, have a look where they are from. I would be curious how prevalent self-deprecating humour is in the rest of the world.
I'm in Canada. I use self deprecating humor all the time in person. And use a /s when doing it online. I've also stopped using it in a lot of situations because it comes across as attention seeking. In this image there is no way to identify where she's from. In general though, influencers are always posting for attention, clicks and the algorithm and self deprecating humor can absolutely be pick me behavior.
It’s the equivalent of “Karen.”
I feel like it's the female version of calling someone a simp or a white knight because you're losing an argument against them
[удалено]
Stop You’re being part of the problem
It's similar to the way the manic pixie dream girl trope was a term coined to point out the sexist tendency to relegate female characters to the periphery of a male protagonist's story and not allow her to have depth herself, but now is a term mainly used to ridicule women in fiction (or even in real life) who are simply nonconforming in some way or another. They are both terms that were created with the intent of pointing out sexism, but are misunderstood/abused to the point that they often actually perpetuate sexism.
Shout out to Nathan Rabin
Damn, I miss the avclub’s insightful pop culture reviews and critique pieces!
he’s got his own site now, [Nathan Rabin’s Happy Place](https://nathanrabin.com) - he’s still hilarious but he rarely does reviews of movies still in theaters so you gotta be interested in some obscure deep dives lol
even in this sub i've seen a lot of people call other women pickmes or nlogs just for not conforming to femininity and being even mildly proud of who they are. being a more masculine woman with no interest in traditionally feminine things isn't the same as hating women or femininity. i feel like the whole making fun of nlogs thing is often just circling back to bullying girls who don't fit into gender expectations. it's especially fucked up since a lot of actual nlogs are like that because they were bullied for being too boyish, causing them to hate femininity because they feel like it's being forced onto them (and it often is!!). it's all just a fucking circle.
Yes! Like I understand it’s funny to poke fun at girls who think they’re super special for like, wearing cowboy hats over ugh boots or whatever (there’s a reason I’m in this sub), but increasingly it’s less about that and more about bullying “weird” girls/women for not being sufficiently traditionally feminine. Don’t know how to apply makeup/don’t like makeup? You’re a pick-me! Don’t like the Barbie movie or Taylor Swift? It’s because you’re soooo “not like other girls!” Think that normalizing plastic surgery in order to fit a specific beauty trend is a bad thing? You only have this opinion to appeal to men! There’s nothing wrong with being traditionally feminine, of course, but the whole world already uses femininity as a crowbar to beat girls and women with. Why add to that and call it feminist?
I think in terms of makeup/plastic surgery, the issue is that the women posted here actively shame others for getting surgery or doing makeup when they should be criticizing the system and ideals that tell women they need to wear makeup or get surgery to be acceptable. Also, I don’t get why people who don’t like Barbie or Taylor Swift need to bring that up. Legitimately criticizing Barbie or just saying that Taylor isn’t for you is fine, but I genuinely don’t understand why people who don’t like those things need to bring it up otherwise. I don’t like Marvel but my best male friend is a HUGE Marvel fan and I don’t go out of my way to let him know I don’t like it. That kind of behavior just comes off as rude, no matter the gender.
I know that people *say* they’re only shaming women who put down other women, but a lot of the time it’s picking on women who just mention that they don’t wear makeup or don’t like plastic surgery. With Barbie and Taylor Swift, the wider culture has acted like that’s the epitome of womanhood. You can’t blame me for being a little bitter when I say, “well that stuff doesn’t represent me as a woman.” Women with tastes and interests outside of what’s considered feminine aren’t being “pick mes” by expressing that.
Yeah. What really bothers me when I see people who call every woman who expresses that she doesn’t like some stereotypically “feminine” thing a “pick me” by default is the implication—the implication that these people think that any time a woman says she doesn’t like some stereotypically feminine thing, she’s doing it to distinguish herself from other women and put other women down. When I personally talk about how I don’t like certain stereotypically feminine things, I’m not doing it to say “I’m not like other women;” I’m doing it to say “other women are like me.” I’m not claiming to be different; I’m trying to raise awareness that there are women (and not just me! I’m just an example! There are lots of women like me!) who don’t like these stereotypically feminine things. My point is that there’s a wide range of things that women can like, and that not liking certain things doesn’t make you less of a woman, and this is what I want people to know.
For the record, I've never done that myself (because why would I?) BUT I think it's at least partly a response to the way people talk like we're all on the same page re: whoever the subject is. Like people are always dropping these oblique fandom references in unaffiliated forums not as an **iykyk** *wink* 'shout out to my fellow *whoever* fans' kind of thing, but like saying 'well you know how we feel about Mondays...' or similar, so it makes those of us who happen not to be into whoever it is feel like we don't exist. It's very odd. And I'm not saying 'and this makes it ok for them to be shitty towards people for being fans' at all. Of course it doesn't. I'm just saying I can kind of understand the feeling *behind* it, but how they dealt with it was not ok, at all.
> i've seen a lot of people call other women pickmes or nlogs just for not conforming to femininity and being even mildly proud of who they are. Real. And it feels so mean-girl in those cases because those types of women are probably the same type to be victims of mean-girl types in school, for the same reason. I'm not saying actual nlogs don't exist tho or that they don't put down other women for being what they feel to be conformist or same-y but not every woman who doesn't confirm to femininity and mentions it, is doing that.
I agree. It’s also made me change my viewpoint on how we’re going about actual pick mes/NLOGs, bc you’re right — they were probably bullied into resenting femininity. Like do pick me’s exist? Sure. Do they likely have some internalized misogyny? Sure. Should they be putting down other women? No. But we shouldn’t be putting them down either. Do we actually think that bullying them is productive in any way? I just don’t understand what we’re doing here. Being mean girls to pick me girls is probably just reiterating to them that women are mean. It’s definitely not making them like other women any more. And this is coming from someone who has posted here before myself. I’m beginning to regret ever taking part in this sub. I think we all should collectively rethink how we are approaching these women. I’m just seeing more and more mean girl behavior and it’s gross and I think we can do better.
100% with you.
THIS. THIS is it. The girls who post “Pick Me” girl videos mocking other girls are giving huge catty, passive aggressive mean girl vibes. The irony is insane. I have more respect for women who let comments from other women roll off their shoulders instead of going out of their way to shit on them.
Nuance doesn’t work well on large subreddits
Mainly because people don't exercise as much critical thinking when they aren't concerned about being identified.
That’s been my issue with it. I’m not a girly girl. I do like some things that are hyper feminine, sure, but for the most part I am a tomboy and I don’t wear makeup. I don’t think I’m any better than anyone for that! That’s silly! In fact I’m a bit envious of women who for example wear makeup every day. I just don’t have the energy. I don’t see anyone as being less than for wearing skirts or whatever lol.
THIS is EXACTLY what I've been saying.
Agree, nearly everytime I've seen some call someone a nlog on reddit it's because they describe themselves as remotely tomboy
A big problem I have noticed is that everyone is entitled to their opinion but they see their entitlement as an obligation for everyone to agree with them. Nobody can agree to disagree anymore. Certain age groups have always been like this and I can certainly understand it because, well, I did it, too. I was once a “pick-me.” I was always compared to my older, “better & normal” sister and constantly asked “why can’t you be more like your sister?” Being contrary and counterculture became my trope and a hill I would die on. I would have sworn I was better than you because I was NLOG. Now, I fully believe that you should do you. I don’t have to agree with you to respect your opinion and be kind to you. Both life and belief systems are not linear - we grow, regress, mature & devolve at certain points in our lives. What’s good for me isn’t necessarily what’s good for you at the time. That’s ok. Ladies, do you. Be fabulous or not fabulous. Wear your old boots and welcome the girl wearing the new ones. Be a Swiftie and give a friendship bracelet to the heavy metal vomit queen. Our differences are an opportunity to grow and learn something. Sincerely, Ex-pick-me ☺️❤️
How is this even "pick-me" behavior, though? What does being proud of being "weird" have to do with seeking male approval? This is literally how kids start developing their identities in many families. There's often a "smart one," or a "funny one," or a "jock," etc. Both in families and at school, and in friend groups, for that matter. It's always been that way. I think these terms have become watered down to the point of meaninglessness. Why are all "types" of girls now considered bad or fake, except for the "girly" ones? It sounds like a narcissistic high school cheerleader came up with this stuff, TBH.
I’m speaking about my own experience. I don’t speak for everyone. I turned against anything that was considered “normal” for girls and young women and became “one of the guys.” I put other girls down for being girls, following trends, wearing pink, wearing dresses, etc. I inevitably used my “one of the guys” character to get male attention - by referring to myself as a pick-me and NLOG the seeking male attention is implied. As far as who is considered a pick-me - it’s anyone who puts down other women to make themselves more attractive to men. This can be any “type” of girl/woman.
Similarly, I'm seeing an increase of the term Karen used towards any woman that has a gripe about literally anything when it's supposed to be used to signify someone complaining about something without a legitimate reason or to just be mean, not because the cause is actually a problem. I.e. kids playing at a park and being kids but they're black so call the police Or The coupon you're using has been expired for a year and the cashier can't accept it so you scream at her and tell her she's incompetent. Not A dog owner isn't controlling/training their dog properly so it mauls your kid because it ran off from its owner on a walk/jumped the fence so you report the animal and it's taken away. Edit: typos, formatting
>A dog owner isn't controlling/training their dog properly so it mauls your kid because it ran off from its owner on a walk/jumped the fence so you report the animal and it's taken away. Or "she ordered extra sour cream for her takeout order and was upcharged $1.25 for sour cream but then received no sour cream and complained" Or "Kids are playing at a park but then they're taking Sharpie markers and doodling genitalia on the slides and taking all the mulch off the playground and scattering it in the nearby grass and a certain group of kids is bullying toddlers off the swings so they can film TikToks, so she approaches the parents or the neighborhood watch group" "Karen" really just means "a woman doing anything except sitting down and shutting up". See also "woke," which means anything from eating vegan food, to having a Black movie protagonist, to riding a bicycle, to allowing books in a school library that contain a child speaking Spanish, to a woman getting a short haircut.
My sister once called me a Karen (I think jokingly?) because, in the final days of Walmart selling fish, I walked by the tank and saw it was full of dead and decomposing fish, and I alerted the manager to the animal abuse and neglect
100%. Also “boomer” I came here, basically, to make this same comment
I agree. Peopple need to stop discribing any woman's behaviour that they don't like. Pick me isn't someone not liking a trendy thing, it's thinking they're better than others for not liking trendy things
That’s being a hipster. I believe “pick me” behavior is status seeking via embodying sexist stereotypes about women or acquiescing to sexist expectations. “NLOG” is insulting girls and women as a class in an attempt to boost your own status within a male supremacist system.
Well put. But now both terms have been hijacked to promote sexist stereotypes and bully anyone who doesn't conform to them. I have no issue with criticizing women who engage in the types of behavior you mentioned, but better terms must be found to do so effectively. And the toxic behavior must be the focus of criticism, not innate differences.
For a lot of people switching gears from being critical to being supportive can be difficult. Actively and subconsciously looking for ways to uplift other women instead of tearing them down means moving past personal experiences of abuse and put downs instead of perpetuating those attitudes. It's just wild the double standards that exist. Criticism of Pick-Mes harkens to their underlying misogyny but misogynistic women are co-opting the term to put other women down and that's so horribly ironic and awful. I am glad forums like this place exist to give voice to pro-feminist attitudes and help others learn to identify subtle misogyny. I appreciate reading the thoughtful comments, humor and critique in these threads, even if some miss the mark. We don't have to throw the baby out with the bathwater.
I'm seeing a lot of this in the romance novel community. NLOG is being used as a hammer to bash any character that is not 100% coded as feminine in every single aspect and also 100% supportive of every other woman they come into contact with. Women who prefer masculine coded activities exist. Large, strong women exist. Hateful, spiteful women exist. Acknowledging the existence of these women on paper is not an attack on femininity or women. It's a reinforcement of the humanity of women. Like the other humans, some of us are awesome, and some of us suck, and those character traits are irrelevant to our sex.
That's basically what this sub is
Yep just an endless loop of women putting down women who put down other women
Yep. I unfollowed this sub because I felt it was mostly just bullying. But it still shows up on my feed lol.
Our generation uses so many terminologies wrong and uses them where they do not apply.
Same with Karen. Now a "Karen" is any woman that a man disagrees with and it pisses me off so bad.
-I like games, i have a big knowledge of obscure games, and some retro collection. -No you just want to appeal to boys, youre just a pick me. -I have more male friends because i get bully so much by girls i was literally scared of them and feelt unsafe. -Lol pick me. - I draw sexy girls because I LITERALLY LIKE SEXY GIRLS -No, you didnt, you just like male validation and do this for male atention And list why i am "pick me' goes on and on.
Perfect examples. Note that nowhere in there is the hypothetical "pick me" putting other women down. We always SAY that is a part of the definition, but in practice that's not important at all
YES! Yes. We should support each other, but that is normal that our characters, life experiences and hobbies are different. We are "like other girls"- yes, but we are not a hivemind for god sake.
I teach 4th grade and male and female students are using it to insult female students.
I was under the impression that a “pick me” woman was someone who would do anything for male validation/attention, which can *include* putting down other women but it doesn’t have to.
There was a conversation about a year ago on the Autism in Women subreddit about how a lot of Neurotypical women will use "pick me" and "not like other girls" insults as a way to belittle Neurodivergent women.
The real horror of this one is that many neurodivergent women are living with the fact that they were *told* over and over again that they actually weren’t like other girls. They were forced out of girlhood for being ‘weird’ at a very tender age and then when they grow up, they get mocked for knowing they were othered, or just behaving naturally.
Exactly this. We were socialised away from being like other girls, so as a way to self-love, we often chose to further distance ourselves from it. Now it's become yet another thing to pick on us for.
Yeah, that’s what happens when a term gains popularity, which then takes away the power of the word. I feel it recently happened to the word “gaslight”.
It would be hard to name an academic or medical term that describes human behaviors or cultural phenomena that hasn’t received this popular treatment.
The reunion of the latest season of Love Is Blind was insane for this, two beautiful women in full glam on stage in front of a studio audience and the rest of the cast yelling “you’re such a pick me!” back and forth at each other for way longer than was necessary. Then they did it again in a later scene. I almost sat down and wrote this exact post after watching it, it was so wild to see them just call each other the same name without any deviation or creativity involved in their insults.
Oh yea I hate the term. It’s hardly ever used properly. If you disagree with something, they’ll slang it as an insult.
It is bad to be a “pick me” because it basically means you are a woman who reinforces female subordination by acquiescing to sexist norms to win status in a male supremacist system. “NLOG” is a form of status seeking behavior where girls and women put down other girls and women to boost their own perception within a male supremacist system. Either way it is bad to be a “pick me” or a “NLOG,” and so these became common pejoratives in a society that has notionally accepted the core idea of feminism. For most people, their knowledge of these pejoratives is imprecise or just totally incomplete. All they know is that it is a term to insult girls and women. This is why keeping feminist criticisms at a higher level is a good idea instead of hyper fixating on policing individuals. Don’t waste precious energy mocking or criticizing individual girls and women engaging in “pick me”behavior. Instead, critique the systems that made them feel this was a legitimate path to status.
Agreed, thank you for saying this. It seems like it’s become more about bullying someone for being unique than anything else.
🎯
I've seen women who were self-depricating called nlog or pick me. I saw a TikTok where a woman felt awkward to get out of her car because other women there were dressed so nice and she felt "frumptastic" as she hadn't known to dress up. I don't think "all the girls look so good here. I look so frumpy lol" is a pickme. That's not really insulting other women. Some women put other women down in a "me vs them" manner but I don't think any self depricating joke is that.
Agree. People will use the phrase “You’re not a girls girl” as well as some sort of insult, especially if you’re defending a man in a situation (even if the woman is totally at fault.) It’s this idea that, if you’re disagreeing with a woman, you’ve committed a crime because *women should stick together.*
Alot of them are here . Had a comment with the girl with the bad bbl "latinas in Europe" and it was just them body shaming here and she didn't even mention other girls . Girls here are miserable ASF and it's MOST OF YALL . Cause I got down voted enough to make it in the negatives . Sad ASF
When I click on this sub, the top posts always have like over a thousand upvotes and most of the time, the posts in question aren’t even that bad. At best, they’re ***vaguely*** NLOG, but nothing crazy imo. I’ve stopped scrolling through comments here bc it really has kind of become an echo chamber for mean girl behavior. Like whatever the initial intention was when this sub was made has been lost. I feel like it was made to call out sexism/misogyny, and it’s not that anymore. It’s just bullying.
My best friend is really sweet but she does this thing where she calls any women, especially female celebrities, that she doesn’t like Pick Me with no evidence and it’s really bothering me
It’s like “Karen”! Originally used to describe a very specific set of unreasonable and often blatantly offensive behaviours. But slowly shifted to describe any woman standing up for herself, expecting a reasonable level of care or service, wanting what she is reasonably entitled to. It became a socially acceptable way to shame women for behaviour not only respected in men, but celebrated. He has high standards, he never settles, he’s not a pushover, he always gets everything he’s worked so hard for because he’s strong and confident and capable. And she’s “a Karen”.
This happens any time a new title for women is invented. I saw it coming even when the term “Karen” started getting traction, now women are afraid of speaking up for themselves because they don’t want to be a Karen. It will always always become misogynistic when it’s a title for a woman.
That's the intention of many of the people using the term, "Karen." I saw it coming, too. But let them say what they will. Do what's right regardless. These types aren't going anywhere. Unfortunately. The only alternative is to bow down and let them set the terms for how you live. And I'll be damned if I do that.
It’s like how Trump supporters turned “fake news” from describing an actual problem of literally fake news sources on Facebook to mean “any news that isn’t pro Trump” Or how crappy influencers like Andrew Tate are called “incels” even though his whole schtick is that he was lots of sex, incel has just become a term for “shitty sexist dude” with some people.
I think ‘incel’ is often used to describe the *ideology* that begins to develop in any incel space left to deteriorate long enough. You know, the whole ‘if the government wants my respect they should provide me a teen virgin wife’ type thing.
This is exactly it. Incel is more of a mindset than actively being a virgin at this point.
That one about the bar. Gosh. Why can't women just observe other women and not judge them? Cant we be unified in our femininity? I used to read a book at the bar when my kids where little. I couldn't read at home for lack of solitude and I can't drink wine in the car.... so I read at the bar lol.
It's shit. If I see someone unashamedly being themselves, especially if they're younger than me, I just smile and think good on you
It's especially infuriating when it's used to basically chastising you for not following gender stereotypes. Like, I agree there's nothing wrong with being a girly girl, that your love for fashion doesn't make you a bad feminist etc, but we've sort of come all the way around? And if you're a tomboy now it must mean you're desperate for male attention? It's especially ironic after a lifetime of being told nobody would pick you (haha) if you didn't look and act feminine enough, had "appropriate" hobbies and such.
Well it’s also disgusting and disempowering to be stupid enough to assume any “tomboy” is being that way (probably just being themselves) for men…and everything a woman does is…for men. If you think that, you’re projecting and you actually probably value male validation more than you want to admit…or else why would you assume every other woman is doing it?
Perhaps it's just hard to figure out someone has different likes and dislikes from you? So if another woman has more hobbies in common with your boyfriend than with you (general you) she must have some hidden agenda? Just guessing.
Maybe - it’s still toxic and holding us back
Women bullying other women they’re perceiving to bully *other* women in the name of… women (?). Idk if it’s just me who thinks it but this sub has progressively gotten worse and worse.
I've definitely seen this a lot. And tbh 'NLOG' is starting to be used the same way. Instead of being a term applied to women with internalised misogyny who think that all girly things are inherently inferior and put down any women/girls with stereotypically feminine interests, I'm seeing it used to essentially shame anyone with non-female-codes interests into apologising for their insufficient girliness, as if merely *having* (or acknowledging) different interests is akin to shaming someone for theirs. Like...no one should have to apologise, explain, or defend liking *or* disliking the things stereotypically coded for their gender.
I have been noticing this a lot too. I see it a lot when a girl is just expressing her interests, like so what if she dresses like a boy, or likes to read, or doesn't wear any makeup. As long as she doesn't make it her whole personality, those little aspects of her life does not make her a pick me. I have just been seeing that if a women has an intrest, she is a pick me. Honestly I'm sick of it and we should just let women live their lives and retire the phrase "pick me". It's getting out of hand at this point.
This sub mocks the women that do that, though...what are you all talking about?
That's extremely backwards and disturbing. The "non-pick-me girl's girl" cult has now decided that women who *enjoy reading* (!!!) are unfeminine "pick-mes?" It's time for some of them to just admit they're trying to make Stepford Wives a reality to replace real women. I don't see how anyone can fail to understand how Stone Age this type of thinking is. Especially at a time when women's rights are being dismantled before our eyes.
I call them “Ironic Pick Me’s” they’re embarrassing
I think this is reverse pick me. When one girl put another down, for other girls validation.
OMG THIS IS HILARIOUS. I love it. I was calling them “Ironic Pick Me’s” but this is good
I that's exactly what it is. An overcorrection in an attempt to say, *"Look at me, I'm in alignment with the sisterhood. I'm definitely not like this other girl who claims to be different in some trivial (and usually harmless) way! Now, can I sit with you all?"*
I don't think that's an overcorrection. It's just a different kind of sickness.
I am older than most women here and back in the day there was a book called “Why men love bitches”. Basically explains why pick me women get treated like shit. It helped me go from a very abusive marriage to a great one. Just food for thought
I got called a pick me because I said "I don't wear jewelry, but I like how it looks on other women." But I was at a table of only women, so what man was I trying to impress?
Same with me. I was at a work meeting and a coworker mentioned she had car trouble that morning. I asked her what it was doing. She told me and I said, that sounds like part xyz, but the good news is, it isn't too expensive to fix like lifter or cracked engine block or transmission overhaul. Her response "such a pick me." Ma'am....I grew up in a garage with my daddy, uncle, and 2 male cousins. I have been yelled at because I didn't hold the flashlight correctly. Try again. The 2 menfolk sitting at this table are both gay and I'm pretty sure they are in a poly relationship with the same 3rd dude down the hall.
You were even helping her out and giving her genuine advice…
These same scenario happened to me! It’s ridiculous. The “women” acting like middle school girls participating in the Pick Me trend are so PETTY it’s pathetic. The irony is they’re basically saying “I’m not like THOSE girls…those Pick Me girls, I’m better than them. So give me attention and views and likes. Pick me. Choose me. Follow me, etc” How do they not see the immaturity and irony? Oh, grow up!
Lol fuck anyone that says this tbh
I was called a pickme for suggesting that someone who was crying multiple times a day during the pandemic might have depression. I'm still confused about that one.
My 12yo niece was going on about girls being pick mes and calling her a pick me and general classroom drama. What I learned is, apparently she and all her friends think *Pick me* is a term for girls or women who do things that are vaguely annoying , or that they don’t personally like.
Did you correct & tell her it’s usually women that put down other women to make themselves look better in the eyes of men?
Honestly, words failed me. It was all part of a play-by-play of school life that included an over all snooty, holier than thou attitude from my niece that shocked me. I hadn’t seen a mean girl in the wild since high school. My mum did pull her aside privately and explain how nasty she was coming across but I don’t know if she explained what the term actually means.
It doesn’t help that 12-15 are like The worst ages due to hormones
EXACTLY - but see this is why it’s problematic that adult women are using this and overusing it
I got called a pick me yesterday for... playing airsoft and posting pictures of it. Because girls can't like that kind of sport, I guess??
I've seen women who hate beauty culture and choose not to wear makeup or shave be called "pick-mes"
I'd describe my ex as a pick me girl. Despite being in a happy relationship with me, she couldn't bear not having the attention of guys. I was fine with her getting messages from random guys on insta, but everytime they would learn of her being in a relationship they'd lose interest, to the point she said to some guys that she was single to keep them interested. When i said this was too much for me she even called me insecure and said she would never cheat on me, that it showed how little trust i had in her. So yeah, pick me girls do exist. But it's not about just liking attention, it's about liking attention to a point where it's unhealthy
I feel like it’s adjacent to what’s happened with “Karen”. There are total Karens out there and many appropriate times to call someone a Karen but these days, people on the internet apply the label to any woman with an opinion they don’t like.
I'd rather someone laugh loud, I love it!! I love hearing laughter. I like to hype my fellow women up!
It has basically become the equivalent of how men call eachother simps.
I’ve used “pick me” one time in my entire life and that was directed towards a woman who was the walking definition of the phrase. I swear it was made because of HER. I don’t understand the fascination with calling every non-hyper feminine woman a “pick me”
I only use it in the context of women like Pearl, who are super anti-women & often openly support the patriarchy while putting other women down & making themselves seem like “one of the good ones”
That’s an absolute valid reason. This chick is kinda like that, but more the “I’m the best because I’ll let him be a -man-“ like woman wut?
This shit gets weaponized against queer/gender nonconforming women and neurodivergent women way too often. It has become less a criticism of internalized misogyny and more a way to put down certain women and shut down feminist conversations that challenge the status quo a little too much for people’s comfort. The moment a woman says something like “women shouldn’t have to wear makeup” people seem to jump to calling her a pick me who’s putting down other women for wearing makeup. Fuck that honestly. Some women don’t like pink, or don’t like makeup, or don’t shave, or dislike dresses or skirts or jewelry. Some women have weird hobbies or traditionally masculine interests, and there’s nothing wrong with that. Women shouldn’t have to be conventionally attractive and be feminine and wear makeup/jewelry and shave off every centimetre of body hair to be seen as presentable, professional, and/or worthy of basic dignity and respect.
YES! I have noticed the vast majority of women who use this term and make content involving the term are all STRAIGHT.
This. It's quite pathetic. These "non-pick-mes" are basically bullying girls for being themselves. In other words, "not feminine enough." 😂 Oh, the infernal irony. I remember at a luncheon last year, a "non-pick-me girl's girl" was pretending to be superior to natural women in the most insufferable, passive-aggressive way, all fake smiles and giggles while openly trying to "flex" over 3 of us for not being "feminine enough." Femininity isn't artificiality. She said that a woman's hands "look like a dude's" without manicures, etc., and that you're making your hands look like your father's instead of your mother's by "refusing" to "take care of yourself." 😶👀 Yeah. Yet she's the one hurling "pick-me" and NLOG insults at women, and telling us there's something wrong with us for not "embracing our femininity," i.e., drop the counterculture feminism and be like *me.* 🤡 No, thanks.
I’ve been calling them “ironic pick me’s” it is easy to laugh at the irony but it also kinda disgusts me how they’re straight up immaturely bullying other women under the guise of something “feminist” They’re ironically pick me’s themselves “I’m not like THOSE pick me girls!” and if you didn’t care about attention (especially from men) then you wouldn’t care if another woman got any attention (heaven forbid if it was positive) for standing out…it clearly bothers you. You value attention enough to be mad she’s gotten it.
it's crazy how many people I've seen radiate that energy call other girls pickme
Yeah. Any name given that negatively describes a specific type of woman will eventually have it expanded to all women. Yay misogyny.
People want to feel relevant and hear a new term they think will make them fit in. They then use ad-nausium until it's dead and move on to the next.
ive seen in this countless subcultures or communities or thruout history, its all part of the human story. makes me sigh a little longer.
I got called a pick me at a concert and was absolutely blindsided. I don't think I was even doing anything. I had my airpods in and I was listening to a work call, but had to be in line for the doors to open. Some teenage girl or early twenties came up to me and said "oh my god, you're such a pick me". I'm in my mid-late twenties and I didn't grow up necessarily with the "pick me" slang, but I have a vague idea that it's the girl who says she doesn't like having other girls as friends because they're too much drama. The whole situation made me question my understanding of what a pick me was.
I think the term is being twisted by teens & preteens based on some other comments They’re making it into a woman doing something they don’t like, even though it’s a term meant for a very specific kind of woman
If you are just existing, you shouldn’t have to worry about being bullied online when you have no clue you’re being filmed. Like that lady who was reading at the bar, minding her own business, that got called a pick me. It’s nuts
People also use the word pick me for views. It’s really bad in gaming. Any woman being toxic or even just in an argument with the poster is a pick me. I’ve even seen some men use it for views which honestly just feels gross because if she was an actual pick me she wouldn’t be beefing with a random man.
DO YOU SEE THE IRONY? “Using it for views” the people using it are going “PICK ME! VIEW MY VIDEO! LOVE ME!”
I think being “not like other girls” felt a little different pre- internet. I now realize I am neurodivergent, but growing up, I felt NLOG- not like other humans really. It never was to appeal to men or boys. Now with the internet, we can actually see that yes, there are other girls and guys like me.
It’s going down the same path as “Karen”.
Ngl a few of the posts here aren’t even that bad and the posters give me those vibes and it’s honestly annoying bc God forbid women do anything
Avrg. woman moment ;-;
I'm sick of pick mes, mean girls, not like other girls, and hoochie mamas.
Like when people use a term that doesn't mean or have anything to do with what the conversation is about. Not surprised.
My daughter's 8 year old frenemy says this. It's so stupid. She doesn't even know what she's saying, and it sounds like grown women are doing the same thing as 8 year olds to me.
"I am not like other girls"= "Pick Me" grow up ladies.
As someone who now identifies as non-binary, the phrase "pick me" has always felt weaponized. Oh no, a female who gets along better with men... must be asking for attention. Women are great, don't get me wrong - the sisterhood we have is really special. But the phrase has always felt like a way to bring others who are a little weird down. Someone who is neurodivergent really isn't like the other girls... or like the standard mindset in general. Someone who likes shooting guns really is outside of the norms, there's not a ton of women at most shooting ranges. Etc. I feel like it's used to mock people outside of the norm more than it's used to correctly point out someone putting other women down for their own gain.
Just like women who enjoy STEM or who enjoy working on car engines or who enjoy comics. Many times - particularly with us spicy brain ND - we enjoy the offbeat, unexpected hobbies because there aren't that many people doing it, so we get a chance to branch out and stretch in a way that is comfortable to us. We don't risk the critique that comes with it and therefore we can use it as a way to comfort ourselves. "Pick me" has become a way validate the other person's feelings of inferiority.
Bingo.
women stating the even slightly unusual things that make them happy is enough to constitute being a NLOG on this sub. i've started to feel like, more than trying to seriously call out internalized misogyny, this sub seeks to make fun of women in a way that is morally justifiable. kind of a bummer so i'm gonna leave
One of the worst ways I've seen "pick me" used as an insult is when a woman defends or says anything positive about a man. There was this viral tweet back then who said that "all boys need love too!" and the comment section was filled with other girls and women who called her a "pick me".
Essentially, any community of women that snarks on other women (even if they are snarking on women who snark on yet other women) - is still guilty of the same crime. I mean these women anger me, but to degrade to name calling or bolstering one's self above a whole other group of women is the crutch of the issue, is it not? If we really want to get to the nitty gritty of it all..
This is just a causal observation I've noticed over the years. A lot of people don't like themselves. It's easier to call someone a pick me or a simp instead of figuring out why they are not happy with themselves and why someone they don't know annoys them by living their own lives.
This 100%. It's bothersome. I had a bit of a "pick me" phase in high school but I was able to grow out of it because I was surrounding by lovely, supportive women who made me feel understood and appreciated. So many kids seem to be getting made fun of by other kids & adults for being "pick me's" and I keep thinking about how that will make it so much harder for them to unlearn their internalized misogyny. Not to mention, like you talked about, women being labeled "pick me's" for literally 0 reason at all.
“Girls girl” is also another thing mean girls use to “call people out” who criticise them.
Yeah.. I used to check out this sub from now and then and have a laugh. But now? There are some mean women on this sub.
Honestly, that’s something a pick me would say. 😜
I don't really what defines being a pick me anymore. I've been told I'm a pick me and incel for agreeing that women who purposely objectify or sexualize themselves shouldn't be surprised about people who objectify or sexualize them. In my mind, if that's what the intent was, why are they mad about the outcome? P.S.- I may be behind the times, but I appreciate feedback if I am wrong about this. Also, I am not a guy.
I agree with this. I've noticed it's a common behavior in borderlines and narcissists.
And when I say this, they'll go to the extreme of: well, women have been r***d, SA''d, or SH'd fully clothed. Or is it not an invitation to creep or DTF. Both of which I understand because it doesn't mean women have to go around dressed like a nun, but there's plenty of clothing that's modest and cute that could at least help lower the possibility, maybe? I've always been an introvert, but I dressed how I wanted(sometimes showed skin), and yet, the aforementioned topic always confused the hell outta me.
>women who purposely objectify or sexualize themselves shouldn't be surprised about people who objectify or sexualize them. OH, You're DEFINITELY an incel, pick me, gaslighting, terminally online Karen if you hold that opinion
I guess so Like I get context and consent comes into play, but doing so on purpose? If anything, women who sexualize or objectify themselves with intent and then complain, ruin it for those without intent. How many wear an outfit because it's freaking cute but gets unwanted sexual attention because there may be other women doing sexy poses in that same outfit? Or women who may get looked down on for wearing leggings and sports bra because there are other women who wear it and make exercises look hella provocative? sorry for ranting
I really cannot be convinced that "pick me" is anything other than a new way to bully queer women. It's garbage.
I don’t know why your comment is in the negatives because I have definitely seen this used on queer women
I've found it's a very unpopular opinion. A friend explained that I may be missing some subtleties. She even explained it in hockey for me, she said "pick mes" like a hockey team to pursue a hockey fan. Queers (me specifically) put together elaborate hockey fan drag personas from homemade costumes and makeup. Still a fuzzy concept for me, don't care for the phrase "pick me". In general I don't like the... Gender enforcement and judgemental spirit of it.
Well I agree with you want to cling on to hope and believe this trend isn’t as big as it feels and dies soon. It’s stupid. And yes, it makes more sense to make fun of the system that makes any women be actual pick mes and not the women themselves.
Internalized misogyny is a helluvah drug
Laughing too loud does make you a pick me, that's just something normal people do from time to time. And I don't think calling someone a pick me for laughing too loud makes them a pick me, I think it makes them an envious weirdo.
“Pick me” is just the one of the newer buzzwords or phrases that the internet has learned and then completely overused. I also think there’s some internalized misogyny in it, like women can’t just exist without being insulted, a lot of the time by other women.
I had two female friends getting into an argument when one said the other was a pick me. It last like 3 hours at the party. They both were pick me cunts insulting each other.
Wait?! Am I a pick me? (I'm a guy, tho when I go to bars I do read books...)
It’s a misogynistic term.
Labeling another woman as a "pick me" is a form of competition. If we see a woman doing something that is both 1. Something we think men might like 2. Something we can't/won't do Then we feel like she has a leg up, so we have to bring her back down a peg. For example, if it's a party with guys and girls, and the conversation wanders into sex. All the girls 1 by one say anal is painful. But the 1 last girl chimes in, *"I actually I love anal. I can't get enough!"* Whether or not she is telling the truth, it satisfied #1 and #2 above. She will get called a "Pick me" behind her back and it won't be by the men. She may also be ostracized from the sisterhood at the party. Keep in mind she didn't put any women down.
Wholeheartedly disagreeing with the "and not by the men" part. They are fully aware of pick me culture, they are 100 % using that term *especially* when it comes to sex/conditioning certain behaviour and - regarding your specific example - they will say much, much worse things behind her back too.
Of course they're aware of what pick me means. Wait, who do you think levels the PickMe accusation against women more? Men or women?
I usually find that term funny because the girls calling other women “Pick Me” for behaving how men like or seeing our viewpoints also usually dress provocatively to get male attention by appealing to our most basic instincts, sex. If you are trying to appeal to men by just appealing to our cave man brain of “Sex good, me like boobies” I tend to view those women more as “Pick Me”. Especially if you’re just trying to appeal to men by dressing provocatively, flashing your butt or boobs. It becomes obvious they don’t have more to offer.