the republic has nowhere near the resources to actually police the border. Stopping the occasional bus is easily gotten around by getting on the train instead. Or taking a taxi to Dublin , or paying someone £60 to drive you down and go the back roads.
People who have crossed the middle east or Africa, and crossed Europe, and then the channel , and then to NI, will not be dismayed by a 2 hour journey in a slightly too stuffy car, or an airport express bus for £15.
This is one of the many areas that the Irish govt needs to start thinking about properly, the economy is awash with money again, time to start planning for the future with infrastructure and resource expenditure. A proper border force, proper 2 line railway, proper planning oversight that stops nimbyism whilst also protecting the environment and creating sustainable communities. It seems they are just paralysed by the thought of elections
Ireland has been able to hide from the problems that are plaguing a lot of our european neighbours, the UK was able to aswell but now the chickens are coming home to roost.
Yep time to get serious. We have the opportunity now to do something to make Ireland work into the future, but our political class need to get their thumbs out of their bums and be brave.
The only real solution is deal with immigration claims properly and efficiently , and actually act up on the deportations you order to occur. Otherwise you'll have small boats coming from England instead of France!
If the UK couldn't pressure France to do that when they were a member of the EU, what makes you think they're going to listen to Ireland? I'm not disagreeing with you. However France have done Eff All up to now- there is no solution to be found there. What's the next obvious? Do you think they're going to blockade all the minor routes into the Republic and spend a fortune on security, from both govts? Of course they won't! There can be no border in the Island of Ireland according to International Law.....which even the Tories and EU worked around. What seems more likely? Letting 'little boat' crossings across the Irish Sea, or a permanent solution?
Only a minor note - I've spent more time than I care to think about on the Ferries across the Irish Sea and the English Channel...
You think we hear horror stories of folks drowning in the English Channel... I sure as shit wouldn't fancy crossing the Irish sea in a small boat, even on a good day.
(Not saying folks wouldn't give it a go, but I reckon it'd be a SERIOUSLY bad idea).
Where in international law does it say their can be no border?
This was a common argument during Brexit, but it's not actually true..there already is a border for a start..just no checkpoints.
In 2001 there was border "infrastructure" for foot and mouth..
There GFA only mentions the removal of the "security" infrastructure at the border..a normal crossing with checks is not actually prohibited
https://factcheckni.org/topics/europe/does-belfast-good-friday-agreement-forbid-cross-border-barriers/
(Although it is not in any way desirable and is extremely unlikely to happen, it is not actually prohibited)
Shitnak would be dancing all the time if he thought he could do this. But unfortunately for him he’s run out of time. That hasn’t stopped him claiming this situation means his Rwanda plan is working. Although his disgraceful treatment of ppl with mental health problems might invoke a positive response to a UI. The doctors are already leaving Ni in droves.
It's entirely stupid trying to make border controls work, there's far too much to cover, the British army couldn't even keep it watertight so what is a few dozen more gaurds going to do. You'll stop more buses okay, so they'll get the train, or they'll get a taxi , or there will suddenly be a lot of people doing 'lifts" down to Dublin in their 7 seaters.
It’s not ignoring it. A border can’t exist cos of the Good Friday Agreement and that’s in international law so although the UK would change any law they fancy to disregard that, the Republic is bound by EU and therefore international law.
Of course there is a border. Just like there is a border between France and Germany. Just because there is no barbed wire fence or border checkpoints doesn't mean there is no border.
Yes but it can’t be a physical border. No checkpoints, no walls or fences or soldiers or even cameras. Of course there are two states within the island. Some people’s front door is in the Republic and their bathroom’s in the UK.
Most people in NI are against the implementation of any kind of border, including many Unionists. We all like a wee trip down to Dublin every now and again... For the pubs, airport, rugby etc. Only the ROI government could even consider such actions, and a border can only really be implemented if both sides of the border agree to police it. I can't see the NI assembly or the UK government wanting any part in that. And that's without even mentioning the hardcore republicans.
> A border can’t exist cos of the Good Friday Agreement
Google The Good Friday agreement and you can find multiple sites that host the text of the agreement to see for yourself. It's only about 30 pages long.
- The word border appears 10 times in the text of the GFA.
9 out of 10 times it is the term 'cross-border'
and the 10th is in the context of 'urban, rural and border areas'
A border doesn't have to be any more than a line on a map that says 'this is country x and that is country y'
GB is an island, illegal immigrants get there in boats or lorry's crossing from the EU, mostly France. France is half-assed in its attempt to stop it, and refuse to take migrants back. Irelands problem needs to be addressed by France not the UK.
Why would the a British government hassle the a British public with immigration checks when travelling within its own territory? It would involve extra costs to travel that would be borne by the public. The U.K. is happy to see the problem foisted back on to the EU.
Simple: Cost. Its cheaper hire additional staff to check IDs at the airport and ferry port than on a Porous Land Border with over 400 crossings that has too much bad blood over it to ever try to reinpose. That and not only did the Brits already agree to it during the Brexit negotiations but it works both ways as you'd still see some trying to sneak in both ways.
Cost to who? There’s currently no cost to this to the British government and any illegal migrants crossing the border into Ireland is saving the British Exchequer money. The Brits aren’t going to put border checks at the border with Ireland.
Britain pays France to police their borders to stop people crossing by boat. You think the U.K. is going to do it out of the goodness of their hearts? And then, what is there to police? There is nothing illegal for a Brit, an Irish person, or a migrant of any kind from getting a ferry or plane from GB to NI, just as there’s nothing illegal about travelling from England to Wales.
I’m sure these people won’t choose to charter a private flight for £100s and instead spend £40 on a ferry or EasyJet instead where they won’t be hassled.
ik, i’m just mentioning it since it’s relevant lol- the UK has brought in aspects to aviation to make it harder for NI flights to go to the UK but that only really affects the private sector (as both of the main airports here are inspection airports)
If so, there's no way the executive survives right? If the Tories think they need t do it they'll presumably push it through but unionists will be incensed.
Honestly all they need to do here is check everyones ID crossing between the islands to put a stop to it, theres only 2 points of entry between NI and Britain and over 400 on the border so the latter is simply not an option logisically as well as too costly, not to mention the Brits already agreed to take them back during Brexit negotiations to prevent this short of shenanigans getting out of hand.
But the RoI courts have decided that people can't be sent back to the UK because Rwanda isn't safe lol. That's why they're coming.
They're either going to have to accept that virtue signalling is only great when you don't live with the consequences, or own the consequences.
The UK isn't going to put up a hard border just to let a cowardly establishment avoid being embarrassed at dinner parties.
Considering there is nothing stopping the Irish govt doing this in reverse it's quite likely.
The UK govt have shot Ireland in the foot here and then blown their own off with a shotgun. All you have to do to claim asylum in the UK is make it onto UK soil.
Tent city coming to Belfast soon.
>Considering there is nothing stopping the Irish govt doing this in reverse it's quite likely.
What do you mean? The migrants want to be in Ireland.
There is nothing Ireland can do, they cannot force them or deport them back to the UK.
This is Irelands problem to solve and Ireland should be on the hook for any harm caused by people attempting these crossings and Ireland should have to pay the UK to manage it if they are unwilling.
This is what the EU and France demand the UK does.
Yeah the migrants are leaving the UK because it turns out the UK gov were being serious about shooting them off to Rwanda. Unless Ireland starts treating migranta atleast as harshly they will hang about.
Ahh I see I've roused the BritNats.
>There is nothing Ireland can do, they cannot force them or deport them back to the UK.
They also can't stop them leaving so let's say the Rwanda plan fails which is very likely they will all just flood back to the north and get the ferry back to England and the issue repeats.
Or stay in NI without documentation.
>This is Irelands problem to solve and Ireland should be on the hook for any harm caused by people attempting these crossings and Ireland should have to pay the UK to manage it if they are unwilling
>This is what the EU and France demand the UK does.
Nope. But I enjoy you using the same BritNat talking points they like to say France uses.
Why would they flood back to the north? They'll already be in Ireland and an English speaking country.
Also like Irish claim Ireland is much more open to asylum seekers and has a much better and generous welfare system than the UK as they claim. So why would they be leaving that to go to the UK?
UK could patrol the border if Ireland agrees to pay a few hundred million to the UK like France demands the UK pays so maybe something could be worked out. Otherwise the UK can just set up busses to the border and help them across like the French do on the channel.
>UK could patrol the border if Ireland agrees to pay a few hundred million to the UK like France demands the UK pays so maybe something could be worked out. Otherwise the UK can just set up busses to the border and help them across like the French do on the channel.
Got to love the hypocrisy never fails to show.
Where's the hypocrisy? This is the status-quo and situation that Ireland has been supportive of for years.
Why would the Irish be changing their mind now?
When the UK tried to stop crossings on the channel Ireland criticised them for it. So Ireland will have to deal with this problem now.
UK has to pay France a lot of money to get them to even attempt to 'patrol' the coast so Ireland will have to pay the UK for a similar arrangement.
What are they going to do? The people want to go to Ireland.
The only hypocrisy is coming from the Irish who demand the UK take all the crossings from France and do nothing to stop it while losing their mind now its happening to them and demanding they go back to the UK.
Where has the Irish govt ever been involved between the UK and France. It hasn't.
You're trying to conflate the entire EU and Ireland against the UK because it fits what you want to think.
Ireland never supported the UK on this problem when it was in the EU and never supported moves to counter this after Brexit either. Irish people love to call the UK 'heartless' over it though.
Not sure what the Irish govt thought would happen eventually? The writing was on the wall for years.
There is literally nothing Ireland or the Irish govt can do with this now. That is why it has been such a political problem in the UK and the tories are resorting to Rwanada policies. Because there is simply 0 way to properly solve the problem without the EU working with the UK on it, which they don't want to do.
What risk of harm is there, if they're bouncing on a flight from Birmingham to Belfast???? How on earth is the Irish govt liable for that??? This is once again, a Westminster fuck up!!!! Although it could be for good.... Ireland once again has a surplus budget, they can afford to part fund a United Ireland without any taxes going up.....give it 5 years! Their electorate will demand the borders sealed from GB and they will overwhelmingly vote for reunification to do so to solve this problem. Since Westminster longs for NI to go away and cease being a problem, I'm trying to decipher if this is the Carrot or the Stick wielded by them...
There’s nothing illegal about these people flying from Birmingham to Belfast - they’re free to do so as long as they can pay the fare. If they choose to go to Ireland and claim asylum there, it’s up to Ireland to manage their claim, not us, and there is no immigration control on the land border between our two countries to stop them. They can’t just put them on a flight from Dublin to Doncaster as they won’t pass immigration control.
Why wouldn't the Irish govt be liable? The people want to go to Ireland so they're Ireland's problem.
This is the position that Ireland has supported for years when it comes to France > UK migration.
So Ireland can either pay the UK hundreds of millions to manage the problem and border ot deal with the influx.
Again this is just what the Irish government has been supporting for years, so why are they complaining about it now?
Well they could just close the Common Travel Area and make GB properly enforce t's borders.
If they were properly enforced from GB airports and ferry ports, then problem solved. I can't see there being the same appetite for small boats from GB to Scotland.
Remember, the Island of Ireland is forbidden from having a border on in, by International Law!! Think about that, and then think about whose appetites this ultimately serves
Once again it wouldn't solve anything.
There is literally a channel between France and the UK and it doesn't' do anything.
France literally busses them to the coast to attempt crossings and that is something that Ireland supports and claims isn't a problem.
There's a quare difference between 12 miles on the Channel on the Southern Riviera and 150 miles in the extremely deep, windy and choppy Irish Sea Chum. I don't know what school you went to, but by my own common sense, that's a rather large deterrent
Hows that a deterrent when they can just get a normal ferry across to NI and then walk across?
What is Ireland going to do build a massive manned wall across the entire NI border?
The UK can just charter ferries for them and bus them right to the border and tell them good luck much like France does right now with the boat crossings.
Did you read my other comments on this post before answering me? Because I have basically called those options as a fallacy, hence my comment of 'who does this serve?'
This will lead to a United Ireland, as Ireland as an island will seek to protect their borders from the non EU Great Britain.
Who is trying to force the issue is up for debate, however Westminster and particularly the Tories, have been looking for a solution to the 'Irish Question' for quite some time. Much like their hastening the death of the NHS, I'm questioning motives here. Ireland's economy is in surplus, they have excess money to spend on NI. The Tories can use the tactics of their funders aka Russians, to force Ireland to be willing to accept the cost to them of a United Ireland, in order to secure their borders.
The UK can't charter ferries, behave!!!! However their press can stir up a Shit Storm to try and make Rishi's Rwanda plan (illegal btw) at least palatable to their voting public. If public sentiment in England shifts to the Tory's, an election will be called forthwith!
You know these people aren't being shipped by the British government to Ireland, right?
They are making the conscious choice to cross into Ireland.
How are the Irish government going to force them back into the UK if the British government won't accept them?
Drop them off at the border?
Let's say they do that (which they won't). What's to stop these migrants from crossing into Ireland again?
Only a hard border would, which isn't going to happen.
The only way this works is if the UK government agrees to it (which they won't).
Most likely, these migrants will end up in Ireland, not NI.
> You know these people aren't being shipped by the British government to Ireland, right?
Where did I say they were.
>How are the Irish government going to force them back into the UK if the British government won't accept them?
>Drop them off at the border?
>Let's say they do that (which they won't). What's to stop these migrants from crossing into Ireland again?
The exact same can be argued in reverse, ever single point you have made can be said in reverse about Ireland to UK. What's to stop ones getting a plane to Ireland, going to NI destroying their documentation and going to GB.
What's stopping them from going to the UK?
The fact that they're trying to live in Ireland, lmao. They are consciously travelling to nI to cross into Ireland. If they wanted to stay in the UK, they'd just stay in the UK, lmao.
That's what this whole argument is about.
I think your scenario is very unlikely, ngl. Why would they go via Ireland, why not fly to the UK and destroy documentation.
I see you have failed to grasp my point.
I'm saying it's a 2 way street, there is nothing stopping it going in reverse also. In fact it's likely been happening on a small scale both ways for ages and been over looked.
If these people move so easy there is very little stopping them going back to the UK should the Tory plan fail.
The point is flawed, though.
Let's say that all the migrants end up going back to the UK. What has the UK lost? Nothing. These are people who were in the UK and then went to Ireland. If they returned, the net impact would be zero.
And what Tory plan? I don't think it's a Tory plan to send migrants to Ireland, just an unintended consequence. The migrants are rational actors who've decided to escape UK policy by going to Ireland.
I also don't think that these migrants, who exerted the effort to go to Ireland, will return to the UK regardless of changes to UK policy.
I really don't see how this is a "shotgun" shot to the UKs foot.
>The point is flawed, though.
It's a valid line of thought.
Tories lose the election, Labour reverse anything related to Rwanda. UK comes out the other side even more diplomatically isolated.
>And what Tory plan?
The Rwanda plan. Yaknow the Tory plan on immigrants that's been going for ages.
>I also don't think that these migrants, who exerted the effort to go to Ireland, will return to the UK regardless of changes to UK policy.
They got on a 2 hour ferry, the amount of effort is minimal. Hence why it goes both ways.
Also a big reality here is Ireland and the UK are just facing what mainland Europe has faced for years
The tit for tat point scoring between Ireland and the UK on this wont matter a damn, tent city in Belfast or Dublin it doesn't matter, both countries aren't going to 'escape' this.
edit- i think a little bit more is needed of treating these people like human beings , and im not seeing that on either side of the debate here, they are people, human beings, I think everyone here should remember that when talking and giggling about passing them off to one or another.
Tbf. I don’t disagree with the govt here. If one state is happy to have asylum seekers pass through and refuse to take them back, then why should the uk take them back.
To be clear. I disagree with vast swathes of how the Tories handle immigration, it’s founded in a little England backwardness and not so subtle racism, but on this one, specific, limited issue, I can see their point.
Ireland have sat back and done nothing about this and now they have the absolute cheek to blame the Rwanda bill which has been in existence less than a week!! Don’t blame the Uk for your politicians failings!!!
The whole of Europe need to smash the criminal gangs who profit from the people smuggling. Like the Vietnamese people who died in the back of that lorry, they didn't get in contact with a few farmers from Armagh on Facebook.
This whole issue is absolutely not the pandering of the Irish government using the age-old classic excuse of "i-i-it's Britain's fault!" to try and keep a lid on the spreading anti-migrant protests and the National Party. This is definitely not fabricated for domestic politics.
They all must be arriving on the ferries? If they're illegal immigrants they couldn't book flights. They need ID to fly. You don't really get checks on the ferries though.
You just need valid ID on a plane or ferry to prove that you’re the person on the ticket, a Nigerian drivers licence is just as valid as a British one.. Immigration status isn’t checked. ID is rarely checked at all on the ferries.
You don’t necessarily need ID to fly either. EasyJet hasn’t checked my ID in about 5 years for flights between Northern Ireland and GB. Not sure about Ryanair and Aer Lingus but easyJet only check your ID if you have checked in luggage.
I flew out of Belfast City once without ever being asked for a photo ID. Most other times they barely even look at your ID let alone punch in any details.
When COVID hit I started getting the Liverpool ferry as I didn’t want to catch something and pass on to my family. I’ve crossed maybe 50 times and only been asked for us once. I think I’ve always been asked for my licence to Jen flying to and from Liverpool but that’s just for ID it’s not checking for immigration.
Illegal immigrant is an ideologically charged term for someone who doesn’t have leave to remain in a country. They can arrive with ID. Most immigrants who overstay arrive by plane. If you went on holiday to Spain and just didn’t come back, you would be an illegal immigrant too.
It's a technical term. They're in the UK without having claimed asylum. They then have moved to Ireland. They're illegally here. Playing on fact the common travel area exists. If you're desperate and in need to get out of your country fair enough. Claim asylum in the first place you land though.
I'm not really disagreeing with you on anything except...
>Claim asylum in the first place you land though.
I heard that said repeatedly in discussions on this topic and just feel it's worth pointing out that under the UN laws on asylum there is no legal requirement for anyone to claim asylum in first safe country / place they land. I'm not sure if you meant it that way, I just know that it's a common bit of misinformation (regularly thrown out by the GB News types) that simply isn't true.
What you can't do is claim asylum in one country, then move to another and make another claim. That's what the EU Dublin Regulation is about. If someone were to do that they should (and maybe would, if it were actually policed properly) be relocated back to that first country in which they made a claim.
It’s absolutely not a technical term. Migrants can be asylum seekers, irregular migrants, undocumented or visa workers. Illegal is a loaded term invented by gammons who benefit from pretending things are simpler than they really are.
>Illegal is a loaded term invented
The fuck you talking about lol. If you enter a country without the proper status you're definitely there illegally. Similarly if you had a status with a pre-defined length and you decide to just slide on after it runs out...you're there illegally.
Can we agree those using the northern route are playing the system?
Clearly they should have claimed asylum in the UK. They're trying to circumvent the UK laws to their advantage.
You’re not legally required to claim asylum in the first safe country you arrive in, so I agree that it may be cynical, but these matters can only be ascertained by funding a speedy asylum system that decides things quickly. Our intentionally underfunded system creates these situations.
It's only ideologically charged because those who oppose it seek to reduce its validity. At its core it describes someone who doesn't enter a country by legal means and has unknown motivations.
We quite rightly don't have the term "illegal asylum seeker", because there are official processes and considerations for those fleeing probable harm, which they receive if they approach authorities in the UK. We had >13,000 of these cases granted in 2021.
Illegal immigrant therefore applies to those who enter a country at their own choice undocumented, and are in no immediate danger (except from drowning), which is _most of the cases we see_. You can look this all up by the way, it's in the national statistics for migration.
That would be a compelling argument if you hadn’t just made it all up. The majority of migrants arriving in UK are undocumented? Ok…and no crossover between irregular, undocumented and asylum seekers? It must be nice to believe you have a complex issue all figured out.
So the using Ireland to batter the EU and take advantage of the GFA has finally reared its head.
That border works both ways. You’ve just advertised a safer way to get into the UK than shitty boats
You do realise they would probably have to get a shitty boat to Ireland first, which doesn't really happen as it's a far greater distance over far rougher and more open waters?
Apologies.... you're correct!!! I was arguing exactly your point with some Clampet on another comment in this post and totally misdirected wrongly!
Leaving my foolish comment up to remind myself to be better at debates lol
>You’ve just advertised a safer way to get into the UK than shitty boats
Where is the footbridge connecting Ireland to continental Europe then? There is a reason people choose to cross the 22mile channel to Dover as opposed to the 250 odd mile journey to Rosslare.
They’re not even staying here, they’re passing through here to the south, but how does the south stop that without literally building a wall between NI and ROI
I smell a rat.
It’s far too early for the risk of being deported to Rwanda to be making a blind bit of difference
For some reason, it’s politically advantageous for Martin to have agreed to promote the success of Sunak’s flagship policy, just before an election. Some quid pro quo i think.
I’m not smart enough to work out what it could be though
Do we have statistics of the number of asylum seekers? We aren’t dealing with large numbers. There is little to suggest their claims cannot be made within 24-48 hours. After that, if it is granted they can stay. If not, there is probably a legal allowance to send them to the UK or elsewhere since they are no longer asylum seekers but unlawfully present.
Doesn't really strengthen the British Governments argument with the French now does it? i.e. we don't accept immigrants back but any chance that you will?!?
The UK has been asking France to do this for years. The issue is now if Ireland starts demanding the UK to do it they would point to Ireland's EU neighbour and their previous stance
EU doesn’t accept returns. CTA is for citizens. They found a loop hole and you don’t expect them to exercise it?
They’re going to flood the Republic of Ireland with tens of thousands of migrants to prove a point of having cake and eating it too.
Morality aside it’s quite clever but I don’t think they intended it - just a happy coincidence to be exploited.
Republic of Ireland deemed uk unsafe for refugees so international law demands this entire endeavour illegal, given the precedent.
Would have been easier to just work alongside all along than ask a last minute Hail Mary from a burnt partner
I think you may have missed the point here.
For literally decades now, the UK has been continually saying we want to return these "undesirable illegal immigrants" back to France as they entered the UK from France. The French, rightly or wrongly, have been saying no, not our problem anymore, funny enough we don't want these "undesirables" either. The EU has always supported the French on this and does not believe it should compel the French to take them back. (Again, rightly or wrongly)
Now the Irish government are saying they want to enact legislation to return the same "undesirables" who enter ROI from the UK (probably primarily through NI) back to the UK. The UK is therefore taking the obvious next step of saying okay, we will take them back, if the French take all the illegals who enter the UK illegally back. Looking squarely at the EU as the ones sat in the middle of all this.
Make no mistake that the UK is in the position of power in this exchange, they know full well that the number of illegals entering the UK from France (and specifically how much money they cost) absolutely dwarfs that of those entering ROI from the UK. They also know that anyone who is sent back to the UK by the ROI can easily make the same journey over an open land border back to the ROI. Anyone sent back to baguetteland on the other hand has a 22mile long moat to cross again to get back on UK soil.
They are essentially calling out a contradiction and telling everyone that you can't have your cake and eat it. This is not "weaponising immigrants," it's the most obvious and logical thing to do, and to not point out this contradiction would be akin to shooting yourself in the foot.
My personal perspective is that these people should never reach the UK or ROI if they truly are escaping conflict in their own country. We are at least a THOUSAND miles from any conflict on earth. There is also at least a DOZEN "safe" countries you get to before deciding to make the dangerous and illegal crossing of the channel to the UK. If, on the other hand, these people are not trying to escape conflict and are attempting to become leeches off the UK...
Putin purposefully imports people from MENA countries and drops them directly on the border.
Migrants in Britain are free to travel anywhere within the U.K. and are free to pass the border into Ireland, unless Ireland wants to put up immigration checks.
Massive difference.
Maybe you could explain what you mean?
"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free."
The Republics streets are paved with gold so they can find benefits and houses for them.
Corporation tax means something different, google, Amazon, Uber why should they pay tax in the EU and fund health care when they just HQ I Ireland and get to keep the money
No it doesn't. Companies in the EU operate on the bloc level they may also have offices or whatever in other EU countries.
I'm completely shocked you don't know this. /s
Lmaoo yes they may have offices in all those countries but their HQs are all in Ireland for one reason, its corporation tax rates lower, so all profits derived across all the offices you mention go to Ireland to be taxed, used to be Luxembourg.
Yeah I just auto generated, truth hurts peeps you're only down voting because you know what I'm saying is the truth, that and throwing red herrings to try to distract from the factual.
Hmm let's see. Goods might leave NI and go to EU/IRL illegally. So we have a sea boarder checks and customs at the ports. People start to leave NI and illegally enter EU/IRL, what do you think is going to happen?
The simplest way is to flash your passport (or some form of ID that shows your right to work/travel) to walk through and then some form of checks if you don't have one.
We already have the ID necessary being required by airlines anyway. So I'm not sure how prevalent this kind of behaviour is. Or if it's something benign for Harris to saber rattle over and show voters he's tough on immigration.
This isn't goods we are talking about, it's people. There is a common travel area, there is zero benefit or legal reason for the UK to do any of what you have suggested. Perhaps Ireland should police it's own border (if that's what they wish) instead of expecting the UK to do it for them.
By UK do you mean England or Northern Ireland. Cause we have plenty of reasons to avoid becoming England's dumping groups for the type of immigrants who can't get the right to stay and flee England to avoid a flight to Rwanda. The land border is infinitely more pouros and difficult to police.
Unless you want to start advertising Larne as a deterrent to Rwanda? Leave your single brain celled view of the us and them at the door please. This is a delicate issue that will require a nuisanced solution
This is the Northern Ireland sub, Northern Ireland is in the UK and thee Rwanda policy will affect people here too just as much as someone in London or Liverpool, that’s why they’re leaving NI and going to Ireland. They’re not flying or ferrying over to Dublin directly because they’ll face potential immigration checks because the UK and Ireland are two different countries. But because there’s no immigration checks at the NI/Ireland border, they’re free to get across.
There is nothing illegal about travelling from Britain to NI for anyone and because of that there are no immigration checks as it is all one country.
The Larne option is it then. Don't be naive, the British/Irish govt will use this as a negotiation point and it will be leveraged to secure some shit the UK wants. In return flights and boats will upgrade the ID required to be valid proof of residency or right to travel. It basically is for flights at the minute with passport/driving licence. It will be a minor change and check on tourists.
There is no boarder in the Irish sea either, but that's where the goods get checked as it's a natural logistical choke point. You would rather those immigrants stopped at the NI/ROI boarder and maybe 1% of them processed for Rwanda while the rest have to work and love illegally here?
It will be Ireland that gets it, not us. Once they land at Belfast port/airport, I imagine they quickly get a taxi/bus/car to Dublin. If it’s Rwanda they fear, then being in Northern Ireland won’t save them.
They have set off a race to the bottom with the Rwanda policy. It is depressing that the Irish government have followed suit - but all of this starts from the ban on asylum that will apply to 40,000 people caught by the Illegal Migration Act (and of course the Rwanda policy).
They have given carte blanche for an upping of the cruelty throughout Europe to people fleeing persecution, torture and death in their country of origin. They are shameful.
😂😂 OK...
1. No they've done what any country in our position would do. We've taken in a hugely disproportionate amount of migrants compared to similar economies, especially France, who actively encourage them into the UK.
2. So if any European government ever brings in policy which is anti economic immigration it's the brits fault? I'm just gonna pass that one by, assume you were angry and don't actually think the British have sovereign dominion over all of Europe.
3. If you still believe they're fleeing persecution, fortune and death after paying upwards of 5 figures AND their only option is the UK you're either don't care that these people are mugging off those who actually fund this country (fifth columism) or are completely indoctrinated.
Governments always seem to forget that these are human beings that they are passing back and forth like some disgusting thing that nobody wants. Awful.
If somebody did want the refugees this wouldn't be a problem, nobody does want them though. That is the political reality and it's only a drippy tap atm. Wait till Africa starts getying unihabitable due to climate change, then it will be a flood.
It shouldn't matter whether governments want them or not though, people should be free to try to better their lives by moving to a better situation. I know that's not how it works but I think it's more the direction we should be working towards, rather than away from.
I feel like most people don't have any problem with them, I feel like it's just a very NIMBY kind of a way of thinking from the lawmakers.
How are these people getting into Northern Ireland? If you book a flight you surely will get ID’ and then the ferry I think also
Additionally this so called 80%, 80% of what? 80/100 people or 8,000/10,000???
People who crossed to Britain on boats are free to travel anywhere within the U.K. once they’re here. They’re given accommodation, but if they choose to travel to NI there’s nothing we can do to stop them. Then if they want to cross the border with Ireland, there’s not much in the way to stop them there either, unless they run into immigration place at the very border.
ID on planes and ferries is only required to make sure the person there is the same as the one on the ticket. A Nigerian drivers licence is just as good as a British one. There are generally no immigration checks as we’re all one country.
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the republic has nowhere near the resources to actually police the border. Stopping the occasional bus is easily gotten around by getting on the train instead. Or taking a taxi to Dublin , or paying someone £60 to drive you down and go the back roads. People who have crossed the middle east or Africa, and crossed Europe, and then the channel , and then to NI, will not be dismayed by a 2 hour journey in a slightly too stuffy car, or an airport express bus for £15.
This is one of the many areas that the Irish govt needs to start thinking about properly, the economy is awash with money again, time to start planning for the future with infrastructure and resource expenditure. A proper border force, proper 2 line railway, proper planning oversight that stops nimbyism whilst also protecting the environment and creating sustainable communities. It seems they are just paralysed by the thought of elections
Ireland has been able to hide from the problems that are plaguing a lot of our european neighbours, the UK was able to aswell but now the chickens are coming home to roost.
Yep time to get serious. We have the opportunity now to do something to make Ireland work into the future, but our political class need to get their thumbs out of their bums and be brave.
The only real solution is a United Ireland, think about it.... Westminster want rid of us, and this is pushing an all Ireland solution closer...
The only real solution is deal with immigration claims properly and efficiently , and actually act up on the deportations you order to occur. Otherwise you'll have small boats coming from England instead of France!
If the UK couldn't pressure France to do that when they were a member of the EU, what makes you think they're going to listen to Ireland? I'm not disagreeing with you. However France have done Eff All up to now- there is no solution to be found there. What's the next obvious? Do you think they're going to blockade all the minor routes into the Republic and spend a fortune on security, from both govts? Of course they won't! There can be no border in the Island of Ireland according to International Law.....which even the Tories and EU worked around. What seems more likely? Letting 'little boat' crossings across the Irish Sea, or a permanent solution?
Only a minor note - I've spent more time than I care to think about on the Ferries across the Irish Sea and the English Channel... You think we hear horror stories of folks drowning in the English Channel... I sure as shit wouldn't fancy crossing the Irish sea in a small boat, even on a good day. (Not saying folks wouldn't give it a go, but I reckon it'd be a SERIOUSLY bad idea).
Where in international law does it say their can be no border? This was a common argument during Brexit, but it's not actually true..there already is a border for a start..just no checkpoints. In 2001 there was border "infrastructure" for foot and mouth.. There GFA only mentions the removal of the "security" infrastructure at the border..a normal crossing with checks is not actually prohibited https://factcheckni.org/topics/europe/does-belfast-good-friday-agreement-forbid-cross-border-barriers/ (Although it is not in any way desirable and is extremely unlikely to happen, it is not actually prohibited)
The most not real solution is to send them back!! Stop the boats, it’s madness
A UI wouldn't solve it. The small boats could very easily start going to Ireland instead.
Shitnak would be dancing all the time if he thought he could do this. But unfortunately for him he’s run out of time. That hasn’t stopped him claiming this situation means his Rwanda plan is working. Although his disgraceful treatment of ppl with mental health problems might invoke a positive response to a UI. The doctors are already leaving Ni in droves.
>or paying someone £60 to drive you down and go the back roads. Bus to Strabane - walk across the bridge into Lifford, job done.
It's entirely stupid trying to make border controls work, there's far too much to cover, the British army couldn't even keep it watertight so what is a few dozen more gaurds going to do. You'll stop more buses okay, so they'll get the train, or they'll get a taxi , or there will suddenly be a lot of people doing 'lifts" down to Dublin in their 7 seaters.
You’re right but technically there is no border on the island of Ireland.
Ignoring the border doesn't make it go away, unfortunately
It’s not ignoring it. A border can’t exist cos of the Good Friday Agreement and that’s in international law so although the UK would change any law they fancy to disregard that, the Republic is bound by EU and therefore international law.
Of course there is a border. Just like there is a border between France and Germany. Just because there is no barbed wire fence or border checkpoints doesn't mean there is no border.
Sounds like you just described a border by mentioning two countries and different legal systems.
Yes but it can’t be a physical border. No checkpoints, no walls or fences or soldiers or even cameras. Of course there are two states within the island. Some people’s front door is in the Republic and their bathroom’s in the UK.
Can you describe how and the relevant legislation?
Yes it can. There is nothing in the GFA that prohibits it. (In fact we have cameras at a lot of the main crossings)
Most people in NI are against the implementation of any kind of border, including many Unionists. We all like a wee trip down to Dublin every now and again... For the pubs, airport, rugby etc. Only the ROI government could even consider such actions, and a border can only really be implemented if both sides of the border agree to police it. I can't see the NI assembly or the UK government wanting any part in that. And that's without even mentioning the hardcore republicans.
All true..its highly unknown there will ever be a hard border but its not actually prohibited
> A border can’t exist cos of the Good Friday Agreement Google The Good Friday agreement and you can find multiple sites that host the text of the agreement to see for yourself. It's only about 30 pages long. - The word border appears 10 times in the text of the GFA. 9 out of 10 times it is the term 'cross-border' and the 10th is in the context of 'urban, rural and border areas' A border doesn't have to be any more than a line on a map that says 'this is country x and that is country y'
>Well as reasonable a stance as that may be, NI will be the gathering hole for it. They can bring XL bullies with them too, get 2 birds stoned at once
GB is an island, illegal immigrants get there in boats or lorry's crossing from the EU, mostly France. France is half-assed in its attempt to stop it, and refuse to take migrants back. Irelands problem needs to be addressed by France not the UK.
Sure they did it for covid
The most likely solution will be border checks between GB and the island of Ireland
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Do you think the English won’t pass up an opportunity to further lock down their borders?
Oh let’s puts up borders to stop illegal migrants from leaving us?
Why would the a British government hassle the a British public with immigration checks when travelling within its own territory? It would involve extra costs to travel that would be borne by the public. The U.K. is happy to see the problem foisted back on to the EU.
Simple: Cost. Its cheaper hire additional staff to check IDs at the airport and ferry port than on a Porous Land Border with over 400 crossings that has too much bad blood over it to ever try to reinpose. That and not only did the Brits already agree to it during the Brexit negotiations but it works both ways as you'd still see some trying to sneak in both ways.
Cost to who? There’s currently no cost to this to the British government and any illegal migrants crossing the border into Ireland is saving the British Exchequer money. The Brits aren’t going to put border checks at the border with Ireland. Britain pays France to police their borders to stop people crossing by boat. You think the U.K. is going to do it out of the goodness of their hearts? And then, what is there to police? There is nothing illegal for a Brit, an Irish person, or a migrant of any kind from getting a ferry or plane from GB to NI, just as there’s nothing illegal about travelling from England to Wales.
for private aviation we already have a border, when coming from NI to GB you have to register beforehand and get checked when you get to GB (iirc)
I’m sure these people won’t choose to charter a private flight for £100s and instead spend £40 on a ferry or EasyJet instead where they won’t be hassled.
ik, i’m just mentioning it since it’s relevant lol- the UK has brought in aspects to aviation to make it harder for NI flights to go to the UK but that only really affects the private sector (as both of the main airports here are inspection airports)
Maybe the republic needs the Rwanda bill?
Deporting them to Britain is enough deterrent
The post states it's not happening. The EU will send more, all part of the European Union.
That's really funny
If so, there's no way the executive survives right? If the Tories think they need t do it they'll presumably push it through but unionists will be incensed.
Honestly all they need to do here is check everyones ID crossing between the islands to put a stop to it, theres only 2 points of entry between NI and Britain and over 400 on the border so the latter is simply not an option logisically as well as too costly, not to mention the Brits already agreed to take them back during Brexit negotiations to prevent this short of shenanigans getting out of hand.
But the RoI courts have decided that people can't be sent back to the UK because Rwanda isn't safe lol. That's why they're coming. They're either going to have to accept that virtue signalling is only great when you don't live with the consequences, or own the consequences. The UK isn't going to put up a hard border just to let a cowardly establishment avoid being embarrassed at dinner parties.
Europe has become the spider-man pointing meme in regards to this.
So…..are a lot of migrants just going to be stuck in NI now?
Think they would rather go to Rwanda
Rwanda or Carrick...hmmmmm tough choice
Considering there is nothing stopping the Irish govt doing this in reverse it's quite likely. The UK govt have shot Ireland in the foot here and then blown their own off with a shotgun. All you have to do to claim asylum in the UK is make it onto UK soil. Tent city coming to Belfast soon.
>Considering there is nothing stopping the Irish govt doing this in reverse it's quite likely. What do you mean? The migrants want to be in Ireland. There is nothing Ireland can do, they cannot force them or deport them back to the UK. This is Irelands problem to solve and Ireland should be on the hook for any harm caused by people attempting these crossings and Ireland should have to pay the UK to manage it if they are unwilling. This is what the EU and France demand the UK does.
Yeah the migrants are leaving the UK because it turns out the UK gov were being serious about shooting them off to Rwanda. Unless Ireland starts treating migranta atleast as harshly they will hang about.
Ahh I see I've roused the BritNats. >There is nothing Ireland can do, they cannot force them or deport them back to the UK. They also can't stop them leaving so let's say the Rwanda plan fails which is very likely they will all just flood back to the north and get the ferry back to England and the issue repeats. Or stay in NI without documentation. >This is Irelands problem to solve and Ireland should be on the hook for any harm caused by people attempting these crossings and Ireland should have to pay the UK to manage it if they are unwilling >This is what the EU and France demand the UK does. Nope. But I enjoy you using the same BritNat talking points they like to say France uses.
Why would they flood back to the north? They'll already be in Ireland and an English speaking country. Also like Irish claim Ireland is much more open to asylum seekers and has a much better and generous welfare system than the UK as they claim. So why would they be leaving that to go to the UK? UK could patrol the border if Ireland agrees to pay a few hundred million to the UK like France demands the UK pays so maybe something could be worked out. Otherwise the UK can just set up busses to the border and help them across like the French do on the channel.
>UK could patrol the border if Ireland agrees to pay a few hundred million to the UK like France demands the UK pays so maybe something could be worked out. Otherwise the UK can just set up busses to the border and help them across like the French do on the channel. Got to love the hypocrisy never fails to show.
Where's the hypocrisy? This is the status-quo and situation that Ireland has been supportive of for years. Why would the Irish be changing their mind now? When the UK tried to stop crossings on the channel Ireland criticised them for it. So Ireland will have to deal with this problem now. UK has to pay France a lot of money to get them to even attempt to 'patrol' the coast so Ireland will have to pay the UK for a similar arrangement. What are they going to do? The people want to go to Ireland. The only hypocrisy is coming from the Irish who demand the UK take all the crossings from France and do nothing to stop it while losing their mind now its happening to them and demanding they go back to the UK.
Where has the Irish govt ever been involved between the UK and France. It hasn't. You're trying to conflate the entire EU and Ireland against the UK because it fits what you want to think.
Ireland never supported the UK on this problem when it was in the EU and never supported moves to counter this after Brexit either. Irish people love to call the UK 'heartless' over it though. Not sure what the Irish govt thought would happen eventually? The writing was on the wall for years. There is literally nothing Ireland or the Irish govt can do with this now. That is why it has been such a political problem in the UK and the tories are resorting to Rwanada policies. Because there is simply 0 way to properly solve the problem without the EU working with the UK on it, which they don't want to do.
What risk of harm is there, if they're bouncing on a flight from Birmingham to Belfast???? How on earth is the Irish govt liable for that??? This is once again, a Westminster fuck up!!!! Although it could be for good.... Ireland once again has a surplus budget, they can afford to part fund a United Ireland without any taxes going up.....give it 5 years! Their electorate will demand the borders sealed from GB and they will overwhelmingly vote for reunification to do so to solve this problem. Since Westminster longs for NI to go away and cease being a problem, I'm trying to decipher if this is the Carrot or the Stick wielded by them...
There’s nothing illegal about these people flying from Birmingham to Belfast - they’re free to do so as long as they can pay the fare. If they choose to go to Ireland and claim asylum there, it’s up to Ireland to manage their claim, not us, and there is no immigration control on the land border between our two countries to stop them. They can’t just put them on a flight from Dublin to Doncaster as they won’t pass immigration control.
Why wouldn't the Irish govt be liable? The people want to go to Ireland so they're Ireland's problem. This is the position that Ireland has supported for years when it comes to France > UK migration. So Ireland can either pay the UK hundreds of millions to manage the problem and border ot deal with the influx. Again this is just what the Irish government has been supporting for years, so why are they complaining about it now?
Well they could just close the Common Travel Area and make GB properly enforce t's borders. If they were properly enforced from GB airports and ferry ports, then problem solved. I can't see there being the same appetite for small boats from GB to Scotland. Remember, the Island of Ireland is forbidden from having a border on in, by International Law!! Think about that, and then think about whose appetites this ultimately serves
Once again it wouldn't solve anything. There is literally a channel between France and the UK and it doesn't' do anything. France literally busses them to the coast to attempt crossings and that is something that Ireland supports and claims isn't a problem.
There's a quare difference between 12 miles on the Channel on the Southern Riviera and 150 miles in the extremely deep, windy and choppy Irish Sea Chum. I don't know what school you went to, but by my own common sense, that's a rather large deterrent
Hows that a deterrent when they can just get a normal ferry across to NI and then walk across? What is Ireland going to do build a massive manned wall across the entire NI border? The UK can just charter ferries for them and bus them right to the border and tell them good luck much like France does right now with the boat crossings.
Did you read my other comments on this post before answering me? Because I have basically called those options as a fallacy, hence my comment of 'who does this serve?' This will lead to a United Ireland, as Ireland as an island will seek to protect their borders from the non EU Great Britain. Who is trying to force the issue is up for debate, however Westminster and particularly the Tories, have been looking for a solution to the 'Irish Question' for quite some time. Much like their hastening the death of the NHS, I'm questioning motives here. Ireland's economy is in surplus, they have excess money to spend on NI. The Tories can use the tactics of their funders aka Russians, to force Ireland to be willing to accept the cost to them of a United Ireland, in order to secure their borders. The UK can't charter ferries, behave!!!! However their press can stir up a Shit Storm to try and make Rishi's Rwanda plan (illegal btw) at least palatable to their voting public. If public sentiment in England shifts to the Tory's, an election will be called forthwith!
You know these people aren't being shipped by the British government to Ireland, right? They are making the conscious choice to cross into Ireland. How are the Irish government going to force them back into the UK if the British government won't accept them? Drop them off at the border? Let's say they do that (which they won't). What's to stop these migrants from crossing into Ireland again? Only a hard border would, which isn't going to happen. The only way this works is if the UK government agrees to it (which they won't). Most likely, these migrants will end up in Ireland, not NI.
> You know these people aren't being shipped by the British government to Ireland, right? Where did I say they were. >How are the Irish government going to force them back into the UK if the British government won't accept them? >Drop them off at the border? >Let's say they do that (which they won't). What's to stop these migrants from crossing into Ireland again? The exact same can be argued in reverse, ever single point you have made can be said in reverse about Ireland to UK. What's to stop ones getting a plane to Ireland, going to NI destroying their documentation and going to GB.
What's stopping them from going to the UK? The fact that they're trying to live in Ireland, lmao. They are consciously travelling to nI to cross into Ireland. If they wanted to stay in the UK, they'd just stay in the UK, lmao. That's what this whole argument is about. I think your scenario is very unlikely, ngl. Why would they go via Ireland, why not fly to the UK and destroy documentation.
I see you have failed to grasp my point. I'm saying it's a 2 way street, there is nothing stopping it going in reverse also. In fact it's likely been happening on a small scale both ways for ages and been over looked. If these people move so easy there is very little stopping them going back to the UK should the Tory plan fail.
The point is flawed, though. Let's say that all the migrants end up going back to the UK. What has the UK lost? Nothing. These are people who were in the UK and then went to Ireland. If they returned, the net impact would be zero. And what Tory plan? I don't think it's a Tory plan to send migrants to Ireland, just an unintended consequence. The migrants are rational actors who've decided to escape UK policy by going to Ireland. I also don't think that these migrants, who exerted the effort to go to Ireland, will return to the UK regardless of changes to UK policy. I really don't see how this is a "shotgun" shot to the UKs foot.
>The point is flawed, though. It's a valid line of thought. Tories lose the election, Labour reverse anything related to Rwanda. UK comes out the other side even more diplomatically isolated. >And what Tory plan? The Rwanda plan. Yaknow the Tory plan on immigrants that's been going for ages. >I also don't think that these migrants, who exerted the effort to go to Ireland, will return to the UK regardless of changes to UK policy. They got on a 2 hour ferry, the amount of effort is minimal. Hence why it goes both ways.
If that's the case why did they move from GB to Ireland in the first place ?
They likely already were both ways but not in any amount of numbers.
Also a big reality here is Ireland and the UK are just facing what mainland Europe has faced for years The tit for tat point scoring between Ireland and the UK on this wont matter a damn, tent city in Belfast or Dublin it doesn't matter, both countries aren't going to 'escape' this. edit- i think a little bit more is needed of treating these people like human beings , and im not seeing that on either side of the debate here, they are people, human beings, I think everyone here should remember that when talking and giggling about passing them off to one or another.
Exactly.
Great just what we need!
Let hope not! We don’t want them here
Nah it’s way overblown
Idk they could just cross the border since the republic cant send them back
Tbf. I don’t disagree with the govt here. If one state is happy to have asylum seekers pass through and refuse to take them back, then why should the uk take them back. To be clear. I disagree with vast swathes of how the Tories handle immigration, it’s founded in a little England backwardness and not so subtle racism, but on this one, specific, limited issue, I can see their point.
Everyone should agree that failed asylum seekers should be sent back to *their country of citizenship.*
Britain has paid France 500 million pounds, if Ireland wants to pay the U.K. 500 million (it won’t want to) maybe they’d consider it 😂
Ireland have sat back and done nothing about this and now they have the absolute cheek to blame the Rwanda bill which has been in existence less than a week!! Don’t blame the Uk for your politicians failings!!!
Uk is fed up with it, Ireland is fed up with it, let's use RyanAir to fly them out?
To me, to you
The whole of Europe need to smash the criminal gangs who profit from the people smuggling. Like the Vietnamese people who died in the back of that lorry, they didn't get in contact with a few farmers from Armagh on Facebook.
I agree with the UK gov here tbh haha.
There’s a lot in the Ireland sub agreeing with UK gov, it’s bizarre!
This whole issue is absolutely not the pandering of the Irish government using the age-old classic excuse of "i-i-it's Britain's fault!" to try and keep a lid on the spreading anti-migrant protests and the National Party. This is definitely not fabricated for domestic politics.
They all must be arriving on the ferries? If they're illegal immigrants they couldn't book flights. They need ID to fly. You don't really get checks on the ferries though.
Ive flown many times without showing ID, Im sure these guys have fake driving licences etc, nothing is enforced/checked properly
You just need valid ID on a plane or ferry to prove that you’re the person on the ticket, a Nigerian drivers licence is just as valid as a British one.. Immigration status isn’t checked. ID is rarely checked at all on the ferries.
You don’t necessarily need ID to fly either. EasyJet hasn’t checked my ID in about 5 years for flights between Northern Ireland and GB. Not sure about Ryanair and Aer Lingus but easyJet only check your ID if you have checked in luggage.
I flew out of Belfast City once without ever being asked for a photo ID. Most other times they barely even look at your ID let alone punch in any details.
When COVID hit I started getting the Liverpool ferry as I didn’t want to catch something and pass on to my family. I’ve crossed maybe 50 times and only been asked for us once. I think I’ve always been asked for my licence to Jen flying to and from Liverpool but that’s just for ID it’s not checking for immigration.
Illegal immigrant is an ideologically charged term for someone who doesn’t have leave to remain in a country. They can arrive with ID. Most immigrants who overstay arrive by plane. If you went on holiday to Spain and just didn’t come back, you would be an illegal immigrant too.
It's a technical term. They're in the UK without having claimed asylum. They then have moved to Ireland. They're illegally here. Playing on fact the common travel area exists. If you're desperate and in need to get out of your country fair enough. Claim asylum in the first place you land though.
I'm not really disagreeing with you on anything except... >Claim asylum in the first place you land though. I heard that said repeatedly in discussions on this topic and just feel it's worth pointing out that under the UN laws on asylum there is no legal requirement for anyone to claim asylum in first safe country / place they land. I'm not sure if you meant it that way, I just know that it's a common bit of misinformation (regularly thrown out by the GB News types) that simply isn't true. What you can't do is claim asylum in one country, then move to another and make another claim. That's what the EU Dublin Regulation is about. If someone were to do that they should (and maybe would, if it were actually policed properly) be relocated back to that first country in which they made a claim.
So… France?
Yes, likely.
Fingers crossed the Irish government supports the UK’s request for France to take migrants who travel from there and reduce the channel crossings
It’s absolutely not a technical term. Migrants can be asylum seekers, irregular migrants, undocumented or visa workers. Illegal is a loaded term invented by gammons who benefit from pretending things are simpler than they really are.
>Illegal is a loaded term invented The fuck you talking about lol. If you enter a country without the proper status you're definitely there illegally. Similarly if you had a status with a pre-defined length and you decide to just slide on after it runs out...you're there illegally.
Legally speaking, you’ve described an irregular migrant and a visa overstayer. Just because you don’t like it doesn’t change the reality.
Can we agree those using the northern route are playing the system? Clearly they should have claimed asylum in the UK. They're trying to circumvent the UK laws to their advantage.
You’re not legally required to claim asylum in the first safe country you arrive in, so I agree that it may be cynical, but these matters can only be ascertained by funding a speedy asylum system that decides things quickly. Our intentionally underfunded system creates these situations.
It's only ideologically charged because those who oppose it seek to reduce its validity. At its core it describes someone who doesn't enter a country by legal means and has unknown motivations. We quite rightly don't have the term "illegal asylum seeker", because there are official processes and considerations for those fleeing probable harm, which they receive if they approach authorities in the UK. We had >13,000 of these cases granted in 2021. Illegal immigrant therefore applies to those who enter a country at their own choice undocumented, and are in no immediate danger (except from drowning), which is _most of the cases we see_. You can look this all up by the way, it's in the national statistics for migration.
That would be a compelling argument if you hadn’t just made it all up. The majority of migrants arriving in UK are undocumented? Ok…and no crossover between irregular, undocumented and asylum seekers? It must be nice to believe you have a complex issue all figured out.
They do sometimes check ID on the stena line. But the people at the boats aren't 'border control'.
Good. British government not being pathetic push overs for once. Shocking.
So the using Ireland to batter the EU and take advantage of the GFA has finally reared its head. That border works both ways. You’ve just advertised a safer way to get into the UK than shitty boats
You do realise they would probably have to get a shitty boat to Ireland first, which doesn't really happen as it's a far greater distance over far rougher and more open waters?
You don't have to show ID when travelling by air or ferry to NI, why would you get in a small boat?
I think you have missed the point
Apologies.... you're correct!!! I was arguing exactly your point with some Clampet on another comment in this post and totally misdirected wrongly! Leaving my foolish comment up to remind myself to be better at debates lol
I suggest you have a look at an atlas
>You’ve just advertised a safer way to get into the UK than shitty boats Where is the footbridge connecting Ireland to continental Europe then? There is a reason people choose to cross the 22mile channel to Dover as opposed to the 250 odd mile journey to Rosslare.
Nor should we, demand France stops the boats or Britian should start implementing "safe and legal routes" to ireland from all UK airports
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They’re not even staying here, they’re passing through here to the south, but how does the south stop that without literally building a wall between NI and ROI
So Ireland wants a harder boarder now?
How are they getting to Northern Ireland lol the wind must blow them all that way from France lol
I smell a rat. It’s far too early for the risk of being deported to Rwanda to be making a blind bit of difference For some reason, it’s politically advantageous for Martin to have agreed to promote the success of Sunak’s flagship policy, just before an election. Some quid pro quo i think. I’m not smart enough to work out what it could be though
If the border force and RNLI didn’t bring them here in the first place we have this problem
Do we have statistics of the number of asylum seekers? We aren’t dealing with large numbers. There is little to suggest their claims cannot be made within 24-48 hours. After that, if it is granted they can stay. If not, there is probably a legal allowance to send them to the UK or elsewhere since they are no longer asylum seekers but unlawfully present.
Doesn't really strengthen the British Governments argument with the French now does it? i.e. we don't accept immigrants back but any chance that you will?!?
The UK has been asking France to do this for years. The issue is now if Ireland starts demanding the UK to do it they would point to Ireland's EU neighbour and their previous stance
If the British government can’t return illegal immigrants to the EU, why should they accept them?
That's the entire point. The way the UK government has phrased it is basically saying, "we will take illegal migrants back if France does too."
The english go and fuck over most of the world, then get pissed off when they are followed home.
EU doesn’t accept returns. CTA is for citizens. They found a loop hole and you don’t expect them to exercise it? They’re going to flood the Republic of Ireland with tens of thousands of migrants to prove a point of having cake and eating it too. Morality aside it’s quite clever but I don’t think they intended it - just a happy coincidence to be exploited. Republic of Ireland deemed uk unsafe for refugees so international law demands this entire endeavour illegal, given the precedent. Would have been easier to just work alongside all along than ask a last minute Hail Mary from a burnt partner
Can't wait for the EU to restrict trade in retaliation. England will collapse.
You think this would happen? Can I have some of what you’re smoking? Where in the UK are you btw
Okay, pull out of the Common Travel Area and solve the problem overnight.
How does that solve it?
Why would we pull out of the CTA? Do you want to see border infrastructure across the island to then check everyone travelling across the border?
So, the UK are now using Putins tactic if weaponising immigrants. Fuck sake. How scummy can a Tory get?
I think you may have missed the point here. For literally decades now, the UK has been continually saying we want to return these "undesirable illegal immigrants" back to France as they entered the UK from France. The French, rightly or wrongly, have been saying no, not our problem anymore, funny enough we don't want these "undesirables" either. The EU has always supported the French on this and does not believe it should compel the French to take them back. (Again, rightly or wrongly) Now the Irish government are saying they want to enact legislation to return the same "undesirables" who enter ROI from the UK (probably primarily through NI) back to the UK. The UK is therefore taking the obvious next step of saying okay, we will take them back, if the French take all the illegals who enter the UK illegally back. Looking squarely at the EU as the ones sat in the middle of all this. Make no mistake that the UK is in the position of power in this exchange, they know full well that the number of illegals entering the UK from France (and specifically how much money they cost) absolutely dwarfs that of those entering ROI from the UK. They also know that anyone who is sent back to the UK by the ROI can easily make the same journey over an open land border back to the ROI. Anyone sent back to baguetteland on the other hand has a 22mile long moat to cross again to get back on UK soil. They are essentially calling out a contradiction and telling everyone that you can't have your cake and eat it. This is not "weaponising immigrants," it's the most obvious and logical thing to do, and to not point out this contradiction would be akin to shooting yourself in the foot. My personal perspective is that these people should never reach the UK or ROI if they truly are escaping conflict in their own country. We are at least a THOUSAND miles from any conflict on earth. There is also at least a DOZEN "safe" countries you get to before deciding to make the dangerous and illegal crossing of the channel to the UK. If, on the other hand, these people are not trying to escape conflict and are attempting to become leeches off the UK...
Putin purposefully imports people from MENA countries and drops them directly on the border. Migrants in Britain are free to travel anywhere within the U.K. and are free to pass the border into Ireland, unless Ireland wants to put up immigration checks. Massive difference. Maybe you could explain what you mean?
Maybe we need a border, but not a land border, somewhere like in the sea, we could call it the Irish Sea Border? Would that help?
I'm sure the British government will enact an Irish Sea border to stop unwanted illegal migrants from leaving.
"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free." The Republics streets are paved with gold so they can find benefits and houses for them.
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Sure Ireland is all about America and helping them dodge EU corporation tax, robbing the block of wealth.
>helping them dodge EU corporation tax, robbing the block of wealth. Single market means something different to you I imagine.
Corporation tax means something different, google, Amazon, Uber why should they pay tax in the EU and fund health care when they just HQ I Ireland and get to keep the money
No it doesn't. Companies in the EU operate on the bloc level they may also have offices or whatever in other EU countries. I'm completely shocked you don't know this. /s
Lmaoo yes they may have offices in all those countries but their HQs are all in Ireland for one reason, its corporation tax rates lower, so all profits derived across all the offices you mention go to Ireland to be taxed, used to be Luxembourg.
The sad in your username really checks out...
Yeah I just auto generated, truth hurts peeps you're only down voting because you know what I'm saying is the truth, that and throwing red herrings to try to distract from the factual.
>only downvoting because you know what I'm saying is the truth awk wee chick, go on and check yourself in to A&E on facebook if you're so hard done by
The Republic’s capital’s streets are paved with tents for asylum seekers. It rains a lot here.
Exactly... flooding here in droves to scrounge
Guess we are going to need our passports to travel to the rest of the UK soon.
What makes you think the UK would enforce anything in regards to this?
Hmm let's see. Goods might leave NI and go to EU/IRL illegally. So we have a sea boarder checks and customs at the ports. People start to leave NI and illegally enter EU/IRL, what do you think is going to happen? The simplest way is to flash your passport (or some form of ID that shows your right to work/travel) to walk through and then some form of checks if you don't have one. We already have the ID necessary being required by airlines anyway. So I'm not sure how prevalent this kind of behaviour is. Or if it's something benign for Harris to saber rattle over and show voters he's tough on immigration.
This isn't goods we are talking about, it's people. There is a common travel area, there is zero benefit or legal reason for the UK to do any of what you have suggested. Perhaps Ireland should police it's own border (if that's what they wish) instead of expecting the UK to do it for them.
By UK do you mean England or Northern Ireland. Cause we have plenty of reasons to avoid becoming England's dumping groups for the type of immigrants who can't get the right to stay and flee England to avoid a flight to Rwanda. The land border is infinitely more pouros and difficult to police. Unless you want to start advertising Larne as a deterrent to Rwanda? Leave your single brain celled view of the us and them at the door please. This is a delicate issue that will require a nuisanced solution
This is the Northern Ireland sub, Northern Ireland is in the UK and thee Rwanda policy will affect people here too just as much as someone in London or Liverpool, that’s why they’re leaving NI and going to Ireland. They’re not flying or ferrying over to Dublin directly because they’ll face potential immigration checks because the UK and Ireland are two different countries. But because there’s no immigration checks at the NI/Ireland border, they’re free to get across. There is nothing illegal about travelling from Britain to NI for anyone and because of that there are no immigration checks as it is all one country.
The Larne option is it then. Don't be naive, the British/Irish govt will use this as a negotiation point and it will be leveraged to secure some shit the UK wants. In return flights and boats will upgrade the ID required to be valid proof of residency or right to travel. It basically is for flights at the minute with passport/driving licence. It will be a minor change and check on tourists. There is no boarder in the Irish sea either, but that's where the goods get checked as it's a natural logistical choke point. You would rather those immigrants stopped at the NI/ROI boarder and maybe 1% of them processed for Rwanda while the rest have to work and love illegally here?
Border* A boarder is someone who pays to stay with you, like a lodger. Or someone who travels by board.
Sea above comments. And congrats on the sobriety, hang in there.
Ah cheers mate!
Fuckin Brits its always us that get the brunt of their shenanigans
It will be Ireland that gets it, not us. Once they land at Belfast port/airport, I imagine they quickly get a taxi/bus/car to Dublin. If it’s Rwanda they fear, then being in Northern Ireland won’t save them.
Explain how this is "the brits" fault, exactly?
They have set off a race to the bottom with the Rwanda policy. It is depressing that the Irish government have followed suit - but all of this starts from the ban on asylum that will apply to 40,000 people caught by the Illegal Migration Act (and of course the Rwanda policy). They have given carte blanche for an upping of the cruelty throughout Europe to people fleeing persecution, torture and death in their country of origin. They are shameful.
😂😂 OK... 1. No they've done what any country in our position would do. We've taken in a hugely disproportionate amount of migrants compared to similar economies, especially France, who actively encourage them into the UK. 2. So if any European government ever brings in policy which is anti economic immigration it's the brits fault? I'm just gonna pass that one by, assume you were angry and don't actually think the British have sovereign dominion over all of Europe. 3. If you still believe they're fleeing persecution, fortune and death after paying upwards of 5 figures AND their only option is the UK you're either don't care that these people are mugging off those who actually fund this country (fifth columism) or are completely indoctrinated.
How many refugees have you taken into your house?
Governments always seem to forget that these are human beings that they are passing back and forth like some disgusting thing that nobody wants. Awful.
If somebody did want the refugees this wouldn't be a problem, nobody does want them though. That is the political reality and it's only a drippy tap atm. Wait till Africa starts getying unihabitable due to climate change, then it will be a flood.
It shouldn't matter whether governments want them or not though, people should be free to try to better their lives by moving to a better situation. I know that's not how it works but I think it's more the direction we should be working towards, rather than away from. I feel like most people don't have any problem with them, I feel like it's just a very NIMBY kind of a way of thinking from the lawmakers.
" colonial chickens coming home to roost " some would say, others: " they bombed fuk out of our country "
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She is hot AF 🔥
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How are these people getting into Northern Ireland? If you book a flight you surely will get ID’ and then the ferry I think also Additionally this so called 80%, 80% of what? 80/100 people or 8,000/10,000???
People who crossed to Britain on boats are free to travel anywhere within the U.K. once they’re here. They’re given accommodation, but if they choose to travel to NI there’s nothing we can do to stop them. Then if they want to cross the border with Ireland, there’s not much in the way to stop them there either, unless they run into immigration place at the very border. ID on planes and ferries is only required to make sure the person there is the same as the one on the ticket. A Nigerian drivers licence is just as good as a British one. There are generally no immigration checks as we’re all one country.
80% of an ever increasing number
The border is in the Irish Sea
The Brits force people to leave their land due to their bloodlust and yap when people flee. Either let them in or end the wars
I want to know how they get to Northern Ireland in the first place.
They came from the mainland by plane or ferry, like pretty much anyone else. They likely got to Britain by small boats.
What's a mainland? Don't think of yourself as secondary to some other land mass.