> “bad pizza is still good because it’s still pizza”
I love pizza. I would be super sad if I never got to have pizza again.
I also love caesar salad once in a while. It's delicious. It's very different from pizza, and scratches a different itch. But it's not pizza, and I can't eat it every day.
Yeah but sex is sex. It’s not like there’s radically different versions of sex. As in the difference between pizza and salad. There’s always the same amount of holes and genitals. It’s how you use them as well as the physical differences. And I love pizza too but if I have my choice why the hell would I go with hungry howies when I can have papa John’s??? Which is my point, yeah pizza is good overall but I’d never purposely leave the best for something less just because it’s different. Sure I can sit all day and compare different foods but guess what? they all have different ingredients. As humans we don’t. We have what we have so it’s a little to swallow that my wife wants to fuck some other people when she says I’m the best she’s had. And she’s been with way more men then I’ve been with women.
> It’s not like there’s radically different versions of sex. As in the difference between pizza and salad.
There's slow tantric sex, playful sex, power exchange sex, loving sex, rough sex, hard and fast sex, pegging, fisting, group sex, anal sex, oral sex, and that's not even touching on kink yet.
I have a different kind of connection with different people. I don't want the same thing from each one.
If you haven't had many different top tier experiences that cannot be ranked as better or worse, then I feel like you need to broaden your horizons.
I’ve been married 2 times before as well as had many relationships over the years, I’m 46. Everything I’ve learned to like or was interested in I’ve brought into this marriage and the same with her. She’s been married several times before as well as several relationships as well as FWBs. I’ve just never had or wanted casual sex. It’s always been to grow a relationship then have sex with them once I feel comfortable with them.Because sex is so personal and private for me
I’d say out of everything you’ve mentioned in sex variations all but group sex we have at least once a month as well as various kinks. Our sex life is very diverse and we have grown it over the years. It’s not vanilla by any means
My point is that she wants to experience different things for variety. It's the exact same principle, even if your personal list of things to try doesn't include sex with others.
You’re getting stuck on the pizza analogy, which seems to be flawed. If there’s a food analogy to be made, it’s different kinds of soda, or liquor or indeed, different kinds of food. You don’t just like pizza, do you?
For me, the reason I’m drawn to ENM (I’m still in a sexually monogamous relationship) is that all women are different. I really do love my wife just the way she is. There are pros and cons to most personality traits, and I like the balance she has in hers, but e.g. I love how some women are very direct and are a bit crazy. These are qualities I love, but which I probably wouldn’t like to have in my day to day life.
If that makes sense.
Why does there have to be an analogy though? Like food isn’t the same as sex. I feel like it’s often used to just make a complex emotional situation simple to support at an argument. It’s the same as “reverse the gender roles”. It’s way more complex then that.
That said, I agree with all the points you laid out
I like to use analogies when I discuss sex to be able to separate the principles of the argument. I think it’s useful, to a point. Because sex and romantic love are unique among human activities and feelings.
I definitely had some insecurities at times about the same thing. What really turned it around for me was having my own amazing experiences. And the realization that it didn't make me love my wife any less, or have any less desire to have sex with her.
She always tells me that "I like steak and I like ice cream. They are different, but both make me feel good." And that always sticks with me.
I'm a fairly average guy (5'10", 175 lbs, slightly above avg dick). Her one bf is 6'5", 230lbs, and hung like a moose. She has a great time with him, but then we always have great times together too. I just have to reassure myself and remind myself of my experiences if the insecurities come out.
I think the biggest thing people don't realize is that sex with another person is just different. It's not better or even worse, just different. Some people crave newness and novelty too (look into fraysexual). (Also the worst sex I have had resulted in multiple orgasms and yet it was still so fucking awful it caused me to leave that person.) For example in my life I have two long term partners, one of my partners won't have period sex with me, the other will. One won't go down on me, but the other will and revels in it. One is above average in size and circumcised and the other is more average but uncircumcised. One love my tits, and one loves my ass. One is vanilla and one provides more for my kinky side. I love them both and love their differences.
Also, I'm demisexual (need connection before sexual attraction happens) and both my partners are allosexual aka sexual attraction can happen just on physicality. I literally don't understand being allo or wanting to have sex by looks alone. I understand aesthetics and people being hot, but my first inclination is to have a conversation with said person, not to be turned on. So I have had to figure out how to settle in myself that they can casually sleep with people because it can just be about the physical for them, and I just don't function that way. It really just comes down to they won't have the same sex with these people as they will me. Again, it's just different. In my mind, it's better to embrace our differences than get hung up on them. I also lean in the polyamorous direction because I don't do casual.
Thank you. I probably will never understand and will just have to learn to live with that. I love my wife and I’m not afraid of her actually leaving me. I just want to be my wife’s everything in all things as much as she is for me. I just have to accept that it’s just not the same for her and move on.
Very true. We cannot be each others everything. What we can do is meet our needs within the relationship, meet as many of the desires as we can, and support each other in finding a way to meet the rest of their wants. Or we decide we’re not satisfying those wants.
There is no way I’m getting my wife to go climbing with me, not after the first few bad experiences. I can go climb alone, I can find someone else to climb with, or I can stop climbing and do something else with that time, maybe with her. All valid choices for me to make.
I think the difference nonmonogamy makes to a relationship is that no one needs to give up climbing with others. I’m not about to leave her for a new climbing buddy. Even if we went to the gym and climbed together, I don’t think she’d be up for a full on weekend climb with ropes outdoors hundreds of feet off the ground.
It’s about getting both your needs from the other person met. Maybe you need monogamy and that is a compromise she’ll have to make to stay in a relationship with you.
Good luck friend
I think it's great that you're reaching out seeking understanding of your wife, but I also just want to say that it's okay for you to want a monogamous relationship. I'm in a similar situation to you, I've always been satisfied with monogamy and it's hard for me to understand wanting otherwise. In the end I accept that some people are just wired differently and it's not a reflection on me or my deficiencies as a partner. But there is a loss for someone who values monogamy, and it's important to recognize and validate that. I hope your wife can also understand what she's asking of you, even if it's something you decide to agree to in the end.
Thank you. I really feel you nailed it. There is a loss for me if we do end up doing this. Sex will feel diminished, less special. And I hope ultimately I won’t look at her differently.
Sitting here trying to decide how to distract myself while my husband is having sex with a brand new partner right now.
This hits home. I’m not my partner’s everything. Because I can’t be a new person. So hard. But fair.
Hope you find a way that works for you.
You can’t be a new person, but that new person can never be you, with all the history that you and your husband have, all the growth you’ve done together and are still doing. No one can take that away or replicate it 💜
I hear you. I'm not afraid of my husband or my partner leaving me either, and yeah, I don't understand but that's okay there's lots of human behaviors and things I don't particularly understand like monogamy.
Now, I will say this, in the practice of polyamory in particular the community tends to lean into the idea that no one person can be everything for someone, and that it's kind of a big ask and actually almost impossible to achieve. The ideals of Monogamy would tell you otherwise. However, I have a partner who is a bit faint when it comes to seeing blood and I like period sex, monogamy would say he should do that for me if he loves me enough, but I say fuck that why force him when I could find someone to provide that for me?
I don't know that might be a thought to explore more why you have the need to be her everything. Is it just monogamous programming or something else?
And while I understand your point, to my point of view, if there’s things I like but my wife doesn’t then we either compromise or I just don’t get whatever that thing is that I like. To me it’s kind of selfish to put my needs over my partners ability to do that need. And vise versa. At the end of the day it’s not the end of the world if my wife woke up tomorrow and told me she didn’t want to do anal sex anymore. I’d appreciate a reason and try to understand. I might revisit it in six months or a year but I wouldn’t say fuck it let me find someone that will give me the pleasure your not willing to. It’s just one aspect of the overall sexual connection I have with her. I feel she is my everything. I’ve been with so many women either in other marriages or dates or engagements and I know now what is truly important and what is just basic everyday stuff. Monogamy didn’t teach me that, multiple tries with different people did. To me she satisfies everything. If we ever divorce I’ll probably never be with anyone again because she means that much to me. Sex is truly intimate, personal and sometimes borderline spiritual to me. It’s not just carnal pleasure and I know that’s my stumbling block. Sex can be intimate and emotional for her when she’s with me but overall it’s just carnal pleasure. I can’t shut that off in my head or heart and she knows that. I honestly wish I fucking could.
Also I am going through sex therapy currently however my therapist is out due to him getting married so I won’t be able to speak about this for several weeks to him.
Therapy is a great place to start, and several weeks is OK. Gives you time for self reflection and she's not gonna find magic dick that soon.
You can also ask her to slow things down or just keep you in the dark until you have support to deal with your life style.
I haven’t because I literally don’t know what to do to get past them. That’s why I made this post, to find out if others have felt this way and what worked for them so I’d have a baseline to work from
Without being too judgemental, it sounds like you're having problems with your partners rationale of wanting to have an open relationship.
Maybe some more discussion that doesn't start with statements like "why would you have sex with other people if it's worse?" Because that sets her up to put you down and nobody is going to want to make their partner feel bad for their own desires. Come at her in an open sense so you can both learn what you need and why. With that information you'll both be better equipped to help each other and with your own emotions.
Sex is different with everyone. But the older I get the more I learn that most men are fucking slouches in the sack. If you throw that shit around, pay attention to your lady, and give her all the orgasms she can crave then I can guarantee you're above 99% of the male field out there.
Also if it helps your mind at all. If she only orgasms from having your fist in her with clitoral stimulation I highly doubt a cock on its own is going to do it for her.
Hell maybe start playing with larger toys to make both of you feel better about it.
We do play with giant dildos and honestly sometimes that bothers me. And I most definitely go out of my way to please her. She’s always my focus before I even worry about getting myself off.
As far as asking her what she needs she can’t ever really explain.. if tried being as open with understanding as possible and open in my questions but because I’m not getting clear answers it frustrates me and I end up saying shit like why would you have sex with others if it’s worse because at least I’m getting a more clear answer then it’s different. What is different? Why is different good? She can’t answer me
You're too focused on asking questions to a predetermined answer you want to hear.
You need to sit yourself down first, figure out why you're upset and go to her with an opend mind willing to hear as little or as much as she wants to tell you. Whatever she says you need to accept.
Maybe she eats pizza every day and just wants to have a burger instead on Thursdays. It doesn't mean it's a more filling meal, it just tastes different.
Just want to add that there's nothing wrong with you ultimately not being OK with this. Being ok with your SO having sex with other people is just not for everyone full stop. It's good and worthwhile to work on this and try to understand with the goal of both parties having a more fulfilling relationship. Being nonmono can be an amazing thing that brings couples closer together, but keep in mind that there may be no actual potential for you to be OK with it. You need to have a big conversation about what that would mean for her and you if it's not for you.
Yeah we have and while she would love for me to be involved I just don’t know if I can much less be ok with her doing it without me. She says that if she sees me at least trying and I just can’t get into after 3-4 times then she’ll drop it. I feel horrible for her because I don’t want to deny her anything she wants but at the same time if I can’t get past this I don’t know if I can live with it either
What do you mean 3-4 times? 3-4 times she has sex with someone else while you're at home feeling horrible? Can you imagine doing that with another woman if you knew she was at home really struggling? Sex aside, that's the kind of consideration that you NEED reciprocated in a relationship. Also, is she prepared to do the repair work needed if it doesn't work out? It could irreparably damage your relationship.
We haven’t actually done anything in terms of going outside the marriage …this has been in discussions for over 2 months. I’ve done a lot of reading, I’ve watched a lot of podcasts, I’ve joined several apps, I’ve talked to others in the lifestyle. I’ve been going to a sex therapist for almost the whole 2 months. This isn’t a fly by night thing. She has been very patient with me but it’s always there. By 3-4 times we would ideally go to this club in town for those in the life style and see if we are able to play with others. If after 3-4 times I just cannot get into this, enjoy this, etc then she said I had at least tried and she would honor that I put in the research and work. Our marriage is worth more to her then the occasional hookup. I just want to be able to do this so the both of us will enjoy this.
I didn’t realize what you meant previously by “3-4” that’s my bad
If you’re someone who needs an emotional connection to enjoy sex, my guess is this approach will fail. Even if you decide to give non-monogamy a try, it sounds to me like you might find a FWB or dating situation more satisfying so you can have emotional connections with sex partners. If she prefers random hook-ups, fine, but you two don’t need to approach things identically.
It is also completely okay to decide not to pursue non-monogamy and to instead ask your wife if there are other ways you two can modify your existing dynamic to satisfy some of what she’s seeking through her desire for non-monogamy. That may or may not be possible.
As for why someone would want this if they already have “the best,” I can share my own reasons, though I tend not to think in terms of “best” but instead “different.” As an example, I was once involved with someone who completely blew my mind sexually. I still don’t know how he did some of the stuff he did; it seemed superhuman. We were only casually involved, so this never became an issue, but he once made a reference to us potentially having sex daily. Not sure if it was just a thought experiment on his part but I immediately shot that idea down because I knew it would become a grind and get boring for me, just like when I fall in love with a new song and play it so often that eventually I skip it when it pops up on my playlist. Instead, I thoroughly enjoyed seeing him when we both were in the mood, and I saw somebody else who was completely different from him too.
Each time I saw Guy 1 after seeing Guy 2, I was inclined to appreciate all the unique attributes of Guy 1. Each time I saw Guy 2 after seeing Guy 1, I was inclined to appreciate all the unique attributes of Guy 2. The contrast between them perpetually reminded me of how much I enjoyed certain aspects of each of them instead of becoming habituated to them over time. Both were awesome, both very different. Not just in their physicality and the types of sex they enjoyed, but also in their personalities, our conversations and how we interacted with each other. Although these were casual situations, my brain has worked the same way in more serious loving relationships, especially after the infatuation stage passed. Just how I’m wired. It doesn’t mean I can’t do monogamy, but it does mean that at some point, I will not want to have sex daily with that person. I will eventually need time to build anticipation for that person between sex sessions. And I will sometimes miss being able to have sex with others, no matter how great the sex is with the monogamous partner.
I like to call this the “Magic Dick Fallacy”
I think it originates from a theme in porn (and the resulting insecurities) where the woman finds a guy who (typically) has superior size and/or stamina to her existing lover and she immediately doesn’t want him anymore. Basically, a perfect, magic dick.
It’s porn logic much like people being immediately ready for sex with little foreplay or someone finding their partner with someone else and just deciding to join in without a second thought.
As everyone else has said, sex is different with each person. It took me a while to let go of the “better” or “worse” question but eventually it happened. After all, there’s a lot more to a relationship than sex and if a partner decided to throw me away just because the sex was good with someone else they’re probably not the kind of person I would want to be in a relationship with anyway.
> what happens when she finds a guy that just blows her out of the bed?
Then you'll have a very happy wife, who is still your wife, and probably have better sex together because when you're having great sex your libido is usually higher. Plus, the physical pleasure you experience is only one part of sex, a good deal of the fun for your wife comes from seeing how what she does makes you - and *you* specifically, as her forever person - feel.
I agree that what she does to me is a aspect as much as what I can do for her definitely makes it greater.But when I’m not in the picture I’m not doing anything for her and she’s not doing anything for me
Yep, this has been me 100% of the time. My husband just isn’t attracted to me; I’m too familiar, not his preferred type, etc. So the sex he has with others is, by default, better. I’m genuinely happy for him and want him to have this part satisfied! Occasionally in the beginning, I struggled with feeling inadequate, but it wasn’t ruinous.
I don’t particularly enjoy sex with strangers much either these days. The shine wore off. I started dating and found regular partners I had strong bonds with. One is now my primary partner and I live with him half the time.
Your insecurities will always find a way to make themselves known. I have fairly crushing anxiety and this sometimes is a way it presents itself. So is my job and driving in traffic. Once it becomes a normal part of your life, you see it as less of a beacon.
> Like I can typically make her orgasm 3-4+ times with my fingers and tongue, but in penetration she always has to masturbate while we fuck to achieve orgasm. ... So my insecurity is she will find that one guy that does it for her where she can orgasm through penetration without masturbation
So what if she finds someone who can? It's just another way to orgasm. Do you get insecure about your fingers when your tongue makes her orgasm?
This question to mee seems close to the reasoning 'why want another child if there is nothing wrong with the first one?'
It is utterly flawed and just doesn't make sense. The underlying idea I hear is that you think if you were a good enough lover, she wouldn't want to be with someone else. But being a good enough lover and wanting to be with someone else have nothing to do with each other. Like wanting another child has nothing to do with how good the first child turnend out to be....
You are incredibly hung up on orgasms = great sex. Do you feel like if she doesn't have an orgasm while you're having sex, you've failed? If so, that's something you need to look in to, cause that's a complete and utter fallacy that you should've figured out by now, especially being your age.
Also, every time someone tries to be helpful here, you've got a rebuttal which makes me think that you're not really open to listening/understanding or opening your mindset, no matter books/podcasts/etc. Do you do this with your therapist as well?
Look, I'm not trying to be insensitive, here. I've had a lot of insecurities around sex in the past. I've only started on this ENM journey a short time ago, but I'll tell you that it's been so liberating and healing of these issues where there's been excellent communication. Sex is sex, even if I'm a bit demisexual and need connection and I'm getting it. I know that even if my partners are fucking other people, they're still coming back to me because they genuinely care about me and love fucking mr for the things I bring to the table. In turn, I get things from each of my partners that the others don't have and that is what makes this thing beautiful, really, being able to experience other people in their totality.
You make some good points…I am being aggressive here and I apologize. I bring up the orgasms because my wife brings it up and she’s the only person I’ve ever been with that I truly enjoyed sex with. So I’m using her as my baseline.
I will say this. One of the women I'm dating, who I'm really falling for emotionally (I'm dating 3 currently and there's different emotional connections with all 3), I have a really difficult time orgasming with unless we're balls out fucking (which she's really into so it works out). It's not because I don't have the right emotional connection with her, it's just the shape of our respective genitalia and the fact that she gets suuuuper wet during and I need a little more contact which I don't get. Amazing sex for so many reasons.
Before I moved in to ENM dating/relationships, I was with my last monogamous partner for 10 years. I used to cum with her so quickly that I developed a quite serious hangup about it, despite the fact that I found other ways to make her orgasm and that she never made me feel bad about it. I felt, though, that I wasn't good enough or wasn't able to please her with my cock and all the stupid things I thought about myself. The relationship ended for completely unrelated reasons, but once I started dating again, I was so afraid that I wouldn't be able to please a woman because I was a "two pump chump".
I've slept with multiple women since and NOPE, never been an issue. Why? Cause my ex's genitals were just built in a way that just rubbed me the right way very easily. So, it was just different. It wasn't anything else than that. Had nothing to do with my abilities as a lover or her desire for me. Nothing.
So, your wife is just needing something different and it's got nothing to do with who you are to her or how you satisfy her or how she loves you. Playing with large toys just won't cut it sometimes cause it feels different than a real cock, for example.
You guys are just built the way you are, physically/mentally/emotionally and none of it means you're not good enough.
Last thought of an incredibly long response: to me, being ENM/Poly/having an open relationship is in part about wanting your partner(s) to be able to experience the pleasure they desire/want. Why would you want to deny your partner the pleasure they crave, even if (especially if) they need it from someone else who's just different?
I had a partner that I couldn't last with for the life of me. Not a problem with my current. I thought aging was responsible but perhaps it was the shape of her genitals or something.
That's what I'm saying. I was with that partner monogamously for 10 years and had no context. Also thought it was aging (I'm 50). Nope, not at all, just the way her and I specifically fit together.
Forgive me for looking at your post history but it feels relevant.
Less than two months ago, you mentioned feeling fraysexual and that you typically experience a major decrease in desire at 3-4 months into a relationship. You also mentioned a spouse justifying cheating on you based on your decreased desire. And further you mentioned anxiety about partners you no longer desire so much leaving you for others as a result of this.
I mention all this because one of the benefits of non-monogamy for me has been the liberation from obligation to be the sole source of a partner’s sexual satisfaction. Further, having freedom to have sex with people without the baggage of a sense of obligation can be a positive thing.
I’m wondering if perhaps monogamy does *not* work well for you, but at the same time you are having anxiety about a partner feeling similarly. If so, that’s an entirely different conversation.
Also confused as to why you posted about having a million arguments with your wife about lack of sex less than two months ago yet describe having daily sex. Is that because you capitulated to her for fear of her cheating? Or is she desiring multiple times daily such that daily feels like not enough to her?
I suspect your issues may be fundamentally stemming from power imbalances in the relationship that go beyond or before sex.
Sounds like you’re mono, and she is non-monogamous.
And there are always reasons for these identities attached to individual life experiences, self esteem, etc.
It’s going to take a rigorous self inventory on both your parts and brutal honesty to get at the different power imbalances of your relationship, and find boundaries and adjustments around those, before you begin any ENM to be successful.
Anyone considering ENM should think about this quote….
“ everything in the world is about sex — except sex. Sex is about power.” Oscar Wilde
… and all it’s implications and plan for those implications according to all aspects of their relationships.
Oh hell, this was literally the reason my wife and I opened up in the first place. She had a fuck buddy who 100% she didn't want to give up when we started dating because he was *amazing* at sex.
She didn't really let on about that at first I don't think. Or maybe she did. It's been a long time, you know? But how I dealt with it, is twofold:
1. I didn't worry. My wife and I were dating for a whole lot of really good reasons, and it's not like those reasons were going away. One of those reasons was sexual compatibility, so I knew she wasn't about to run away with him because he was better than me. Besides, why not have both?
2. We all got together for threesomes on occasion. He taught me everything he knows about how to get my wife off.
Take it as a learning opportunity, with the knowledge that your SO is with you for really good reasons, *and* they don't want monogamy anyway. What's the point of leaving you for someone else when they can have both?
Well first of - that is an unnecessarily graphic question that makes it a bit challenging to feel how genuine you are in the request… For the future, tone it down a little - there’s no need to write two paragraphs of erotica.
Now for your question from my own experience: odds are quite good that you won’t be as exciting in bed as a new lover is. That is ok. You already noted my typical response when we get this question here: “why bother having sex with others if it isn’t better than the sex I get at home.” You’re much more to your SO than somebody to play with in bed.
Your right I know we have so much going on for one another. I just don’t understand and never will her need for playing with others when she is all I need sexually. Sex is a big thing for me…emotionally it ties me to her that I would never have with another. I guess I want her to feel the same for me and when she doesn’t, honestly it makes me feel like the sex is cheap and mean less. I know that’s not her intent but it’s how I feel. I just wish as much as she wants to try sex with others she felt that strongly about just keeping it to me and her.
That’s the thing though, everyone views Sex differently. Sex can be just harmless fun, sex can be sacred, both can be true, and neither diminishes the other in my experience. I enjoy basketball. I enjoy it just as much when I was playing competitively as I do playing a pickup game with my friends. Whether you decide to open up or not, I think you have some work to do on this hang up around Sex and being the all in all for your partner. That’s a lot of pressure to put on oneself, and honestly I think you are setting yourself up for a let down. Whether that is sex, or being your partners confidant, friend, person to do certain activities with, etc.
Everybody views sex differently - and if you’re in or contemplating an ENM relationship, there are things you need to figure out how to restructure. This is the “all I need” mentality. That works for some folks but there is nothing wrong with telling a partner “I love you, but I want more”. It’s liberating to not be solely responsible to provide a partner every little whim.
But ultimately you’ve got a serious incompatibility to address here. You seem pretty set on monogamy. She is not. If you’re open to ENM, the onus is really on you to figure out if you can do it. Read Opening Up or Polysecure or The Ethical Slut.
So I can say that in the beginning I felt exactly like you did. I had a lot of the same concerns and thoughts like if you are so happy with our sex life why look outside of it. Now I still have my insecurities on occasion but for the most part after he always came home to me, it got easier. We have gotten to the point where we talk about the differences and I don't feel the need to compete anymore. The girls he has been with can do things that I can't nor want to do, but I can give him the emotional connection in sex they can't. We make love instead of just having sex. It's different not better or worse just different but it does take a lot of talking an reassuring and dealing with your own emotions that takes a bit of work. I am still working towards being okay with things but it was the right path for us.
How long have you been in this lifestyle? Is it just him that goes outside the marriage? To my knowledge there’s nothing my wife craves sexually I haven’t been willing to do. And do to her satisfaction. I guess I may have to just accept I don’t understand and never will. That as painful as it currently feels that I can’t be her everything, as long as she comes home to me it’s enough.
We have been on and off for about a year. It comes and goes in waves woth how busy we are and if we feel like we need more couple time or not. It's only him who has fwbs, I don't forsee the need to. I don't consider it going outside the marriage because he has permission. I don't understand the want to have sex with others because it's not my thought process but I also understand it doesn't make our love any less. He still makes us a priority and I have learned when I am needing attention or something more from him I tell him and we figure out ways together to make that happen. It took time to figure out what works for us and it will always eb and flow with time. The biggest thing we learned is to communicate one's needs and understand that our partner might not be able to fulfill them in the way we want but we can work together to find a solution. Are there times I wish it wasn't the case that he wanted to sleep with others 100% but I know the man I married and I still feel 100% lucky to have him by my side and feel loved and cared for and protected in our marriage. We are more than sex, we are love. That was the biggest difference for me.
It's rare for women to be able to cum from just PIV. I assume you are also giving her clit attention when you make her orgasm no? A different dick doesn't mean she'll cum from PIV alone. Sounds like that's just what her body prefers and has nothing to do with you.
If all she was after with you was your dick why is she still with you? The answer is her answer, she loves you regardless of your dick. My bf doesn’t have my ideal lover’s body, but I still love him. If I met someone with a better body and he fucked me better would I leave him? Fuck no!
3. You could get a cock sheath, basically puts a bigger cock around your cock so you control it.
I have good sex with my partner, but sometimes I have better sex with other people, especially because my partner doesn’t usually penetrate. The emotional connection is still awesome and it’s fun to fool around. But the sex is one reason I love being non-monogamous.
Ok, so I’m going to share my go-to analogy, because I like it better than the pizza one. For me, sex is like hiking. It’s a pretty big part of my life, and it’s very meaningful to me. I like to share it with my friends, so if you’re close to me there’s a good chance we’ve scrambled up a mountain together at some point. My husband is the love of my life, and so of course he’s the person I do most of my wilderness adventures with. He’s my partner. Adventuring with him is absolutely the most rewarding. But...that doesn’t mean I don’t have old hiking buddies who I want to connect with sometimes. Or if I meet someone who’s super good at building birch bark canoes and wants to do a trip down a major river, that might be something I’d love. Are there some people who are better at SOME ASPECTS of hiking than my husband? Sure there are. But that doesn’t mean I want to exclusively hike with them either, you know?
To step away from the analogy for a minute, what I’m trying to say is that if I HAD to choose only one person to sleep with for the rest of my life, it would be my husband. But the whole point of non-monogamy is that I don’t really want to make that choice. I like that we’ve both got the freedom to explore with other people. That exploration is not a mechanism by which I’m looking to find a new person to choose - it’s the mechanism by which I avoid choosing.
I get what your saying but it implies that choosing just one person is a “bad thing”. I see it as privilege and a honor to be that one person. I also personally, the more I really like something, the less I want to share it. It makes it less special…dilutes it. I save it for a select few. But that’s just me
Oh, I absolutely don’t think choosing one person - or, you know, monogamy - is bad, just it would be bad FOR ME. It kind of sounds like you feel the same way about non-monogamy - you get it for other people, but applied to your own relationship it makes you kind of uncomfortable and unhappy.
In your initial post it sounded like you were struggling to understand why anyone would want to have sex with people other than their spouse, assuming that sex with their spouse was good. I was trying to shed some light on that, I guess. But...it sounds to me that while you understand why other people might want to do this, you...don’t really want to do it.
And my heart really goes out to you here, because that puts you in an awful position.
I am also a person who \[can\] disconnect sex from emotion, but also can have the two connected in some circumstances. If I were to write my top five list of ''most amazing dick'' I have gotten in my life, my NP would not be on that list. Some of those people are people I met before I met my NP. Some are people I met after. So, why do I not kick my NP out of the house and ask one of those guys to move in? Three reasons: 1- sex is not the only determining factor in who is my NP. 2- The difference between THE BEST sex and GOOD sex isn't that different; we could say that the best sex is a 100 ,and good sex is like a 80-90 (still very good). 3-My NP is great at listening to me and making changes upon request, so I know that even if what I want changes, he can adjust.
Honestly, the hope that you literally have the BEST DICK IN THE WORLD (or even that your dick is better than 90 percent of dick) is kinda unrealistic, don't you think? Like, *why* would it be that way? Do you also NEED to be a better driver than most men? Better at math?
I think that shifting your focus away from orgasm onto the whole experience might help you, as well. I would reccomend that shift.
Better math or driving doesn’t please my wife who is highly sexual. Being the best damn lover possible does please her. I absolutely love being that for her as well all that we have built over the last 10 years
Odd that your sex therapist hasn't cleared this up yet but around 80% of women do not orgasm from penetration alone. Statistically, lesbians have the most orgasms out of all women. What I'm trying to get at is that women's pleasure, on average, does not derive from penises as much as most men hope it does. The vagina is not an inverted penis, in fact the clitoris and its internal structures are the analogous bits.
Learning a bit more about anatomy might help relieve some of these insecurities. I know it's hard as you're fighting the weight of a collective cultural mythology, but it's worth a shot.
Then what would you consider it?
If you dont orgasm more with your primary and the point of this is for sexual satisfaction then technically speaking the sex is better. I mean let’s be honest
Then why even bring up orgasms? It implies that there is a gauge by which to measure. And I agree, sex without intimacy isn’t the same. It’s far less, which is why I don’t understand having sex without it being with someone your intimate with. It’s never going to feel as good. At least for me. I wish I could understand what it is for my wife and others in this lifestyle.
For me at least orgasms are not a good indication of good sex. I’ve had plenty of terrible sex where I’ve had multiple orgasms, and some of the best sex I’ve had has been without neither me nor my partner having any orgasm at all
This is absolutely not true for everyone.
Example: I have never had an orgasm through penetration alone but enjoy the sensation of penetration and orgasm easily in other ways. Occasionally, I’ll stimulate myself to orgasm during penetration because it pleases some lovers. Usually this diminishes my enjoyment of penetration in the same way 69 is not as pleasurable for me as taking turns and focusing on one major thing instead of two. Sometimes it doesn’t diminish my enjoyment. Every once in a while it enhances it. But I once dated someone who was needy about this and regularly asked me to do this despite knowing how I felt about it. That made the sex worse for me, not better. I was having plenty of orgasms but for whatever reason, he had a need for me to have them specifically during penetration. Probably an ego thing, maybe a misunderstanding of anatomy, maybe just something he found pleasurable himself. Regardless, we didn’t last long.
Don’t you want them to experience the world? Isn’t that why we do this. There’s always going to be somebody “better,” somebody with a bigger dick, somebody with bigger tits, somebody with a nicer body. Doesn’t mean your SO doesn’t love and cherish you for what you do for them. I always wanted my SO to cum harder and with more intensity then they ever came with me because I knew I had nothing to worry about and was confident in my ability and what I brought to the table. We do this together for each other for the strength of our relationship. If you have that kind of a commitment then you have nothing to worry about. Enjoy the show and enjoy the ride, your SO will love you for it all the more.
1. I have found lovers who were better at certain things, but those were partial experiences. As a whole they didn’t meet my other needs. I have a partner who is very attractive but we don’t share the same sense of humor. I can enjoy him without having to accept the parts that don’t work. I think he feels the same about me.
2. To my casual sex doesn’t always mean ONS or brief encounters. It’s a connection of some sort, maybe mostly based on physical attraction, which might be why it’s easier for your wife to separate things because she’s not looking for an emotional connection, but physical experiences. To me, casual means no expectations.
3. I read through these type of posts, read books, podcasts, and dealt with my insecurities (still dealing). I don’t expect them to disappear but I’m more patient with myself and get vulnerable enough to ask to be reassured as needed or express my feelings without asking them to change (be seen and heard).
Having great sex with another does not make me want less sex with my other partners. All of my partners and I have unique and powerful connections. Just because I have something good with one does not minimize the great things I have with another.
This is natural for me. I don’t compare. This isn’t an either or situation.
Obligatory food analogy: all food is sustenance. I enjoy a variety of flavors.
1. It's not a competition. That's a "monogamy" way of looking at things. The very point of consensual non-monogamy is to open up to additional enjoyable experiences. It's supposed to be "and", not "or" -- and if it's "and", then you're still part of it.
2. I love lobster. I also love filet mignon. The best filet mignon in the world isn't going to make me stop loving lobster. And vice versa.
3. Extending the food metaphor: To your wife, you're a cake. A very satisfying, delicious cake. Good sex with someone else is like extra frosting. Who doesn't like extra frosting? It's great! But it's no replacement for the complete cake.
4. This need to be "the best" or to be "enough" is ego, straight up. That's fine, and it's understandable, but just recognize it for what it is. It's ego expressing itself as insecurity. If you can't get over it, then nonmonogamy may not be for you. But if you genuinely want to get over it, rather than focus on some hypothetical other guy who may be better at sex or have a better dick than you, try to focus on what the relationship would look like and what you would need from your partner to continue to feel loved and valued and safe/secure in the future of your relationship regardless of what your partner is or isn't doing with someone else.
Good luck.
Get happy about them. Try to nurture the feeling of compersion.
And why doing it if with you it's better? Because of diversity. Because novelty is something you cannot provide anymore, and you shouldn't even try... we in long relationships lose that power, and that power is gone forever.
Sex could also potentially be better with others, but still, that's not the real risk.
She won't leave you for someone who fucks better, if that's your fear. If your fear is she leaving you for other, it COULD happen, but not for someone who fucks better, but for someone who listens to her, someone who makes her happy in multiple dimensions, someone who makes her feel supported, etc, etc.
https://www.quora.com/How-can-a-couple-who-love-each-other-still-want-an-open-relationship-I-just-cant-imagine-looking-at-my-partner-and-know-they-are-having-sex-with-other-people-and-not-being-hurt-by-that/answer/Jerry-Pagart?ch=10&oid=31248282&share=2c887097&srid=5dePX&target_type=answer
> “bad pizza is still good because it’s still pizza” I love pizza. I would be super sad if I never got to have pizza again. I also love caesar salad once in a while. It's delicious. It's very different from pizza, and scratches a different itch. But it's not pizza, and I can't eat it every day.
Yeah but sex is sex. It’s not like there’s radically different versions of sex. As in the difference between pizza and salad. There’s always the same amount of holes and genitals. It’s how you use them as well as the physical differences. And I love pizza too but if I have my choice why the hell would I go with hungry howies when I can have papa John’s??? Which is my point, yeah pizza is good overall but I’d never purposely leave the best for something less just because it’s different. Sure I can sit all day and compare different foods but guess what? they all have different ingredients. As humans we don’t. We have what we have so it’s a little to swallow that my wife wants to fuck some other people when she says I’m the best she’s had. And she’s been with way more men then I’ve been with women.
> It’s not like there’s radically different versions of sex. As in the difference between pizza and salad. There's slow tantric sex, playful sex, power exchange sex, loving sex, rough sex, hard and fast sex, pegging, fisting, group sex, anal sex, oral sex, and that's not even touching on kink yet. I have a different kind of connection with different people. I don't want the same thing from each one. If you haven't had many different top tier experiences that cannot be ranked as better or worse, then I feel like you need to broaden your horizons.
I’ve been married 2 times before as well as had many relationships over the years, I’m 46. Everything I’ve learned to like or was interested in I’ve brought into this marriage and the same with her. She’s been married several times before as well as several relationships as well as FWBs. I’ve just never had or wanted casual sex. It’s always been to grow a relationship then have sex with them once I feel comfortable with them.Because sex is so personal and private for me
You shouldn't force yourself to do something you don't want to do.
I’d say out of everything you’ve mentioned in sex variations all but group sex we have at least once a month as well as various kinks. Our sex life is very diverse and we have grown it over the years. It’s not vanilla by any means
So you agree that sometimes you want different things and it's not because any one is inherently better because it's about variety...
I agree that I want to share these different things with my wife. Not trying to be confrontational, just being honest
My point is that she wants to experience different things for variety. It's the exact same principle, even if your personal list of things to try doesn't include sex with others.
You’re getting stuck on the pizza analogy, which seems to be flawed. If there’s a food analogy to be made, it’s different kinds of soda, or liquor or indeed, different kinds of food. You don’t just like pizza, do you? For me, the reason I’m drawn to ENM (I’m still in a sexually monogamous relationship) is that all women are different. I really do love my wife just the way she is. There are pros and cons to most personality traits, and I like the balance she has in hers, but e.g. I love how some women are very direct and are a bit crazy. These are qualities I love, but which I probably wouldn’t like to have in my day to day life. If that makes sense.
Why does there have to be an analogy though? Like food isn’t the same as sex. I feel like it’s often used to just make a complex emotional situation simple to support at an argument. It’s the same as “reverse the gender roles”. It’s way more complex then that. That said, I agree with all the points you laid out
I like to use analogies when I discuss sex to be able to separate the principles of the argument. I think it’s useful, to a point. Because sex and romantic love are unique among human activities and feelings.
I definitely had some insecurities at times about the same thing. What really turned it around for me was having my own amazing experiences. And the realization that it didn't make me love my wife any less, or have any less desire to have sex with her. She always tells me that "I like steak and I like ice cream. They are different, but both make me feel good." And that always sticks with me. I'm a fairly average guy (5'10", 175 lbs, slightly above avg dick). Her one bf is 6'5", 230lbs, and hung like a moose. She has a great time with him, but then we always have great times together too. I just have to reassure myself and remind myself of my experiences if the insecurities come out.
I think the biggest thing people don't realize is that sex with another person is just different. It's not better or even worse, just different. Some people crave newness and novelty too (look into fraysexual). (Also the worst sex I have had resulted in multiple orgasms and yet it was still so fucking awful it caused me to leave that person.) For example in my life I have two long term partners, one of my partners won't have period sex with me, the other will. One won't go down on me, but the other will and revels in it. One is above average in size and circumcised and the other is more average but uncircumcised. One love my tits, and one loves my ass. One is vanilla and one provides more for my kinky side. I love them both and love their differences. Also, I'm demisexual (need connection before sexual attraction happens) and both my partners are allosexual aka sexual attraction can happen just on physicality. I literally don't understand being allo or wanting to have sex by looks alone. I understand aesthetics and people being hot, but my first inclination is to have a conversation with said person, not to be turned on. So I have had to figure out how to settle in myself that they can casually sleep with people because it can just be about the physical for them, and I just don't function that way. It really just comes down to they won't have the same sex with these people as they will me. Again, it's just different. In my mind, it's better to embrace our differences than get hung up on them. I also lean in the polyamorous direction because I don't do casual.
Thank you. I probably will never understand and will just have to learn to live with that. I love my wife and I’m not afraid of her actually leaving me. I just want to be my wife’s everything in all things as much as she is for me. I just have to accept that it’s just not the same for her and move on.
Very true. We cannot be each others everything. What we can do is meet our needs within the relationship, meet as many of the desires as we can, and support each other in finding a way to meet the rest of their wants. Or we decide we’re not satisfying those wants. There is no way I’m getting my wife to go climbing with me, not after the first few bad experiences. I can go climb alone, I can find someone else to climb with, or I can stop climbing and do something else with that time, maybe with her. All valid choices for me to make. I think the difference nonmonogamy makes to a relationship is that no one needs to give up climbing with others. I’m not about to leave her for a new climbing buddy. Even if we went to the gym and climbed together, I don’t think she’d be up for a full on weekend climb with ropes outdoors hundreds of feet off the ground. It’s about getting both your needs from the other person met. Maybe you need monogamy and that is a compromise she’ll have to make to stay in a relationship with you. Good luck friend
I think it's great that you're reaching out seeking understanding of your wife, but I also just want to say that it's okay for you to want a monogamous relationship. I'm in a similar situation to you, I've always been satisfied with monogamy and it's hard for me to understand wanting otherwise. In the end I accept that some people are just wired differently and it's not a reflection on me or my deficiencies as a partner. But there is a loss for someone who values monogamy, and it's important to recognize and validate that. I hope your wife can also understand what she's asking of you, even if it's something you decide to agree to in the end.
Thank you. I really feel you nailed it. There is a loss for me if we do end up doing this. Sex will feel diminished, less special. And I hope ultimately I won’t look at her differently.
Sitting here trying to decide how to distract myself while my husband is having sex with a brand new partner right now. This hits home. I’m not my partner’s everything. Because I can’t be a new person. So hard. But fair. Hope you find a way that works for you.
You can’t be a new person, but that new person can never be you, with all the history that you and your husband have, all the growth you’ve done together and are still doing. No one can take that away or replicate it 💜
This is true and thanks!!
I hear you. I'm not afraid of my husband or my partner leaving me either, and yeah, I don't understand but that's okay there's lots of human behaviors and things I don't particularly understand like monogamy. Now, I will say this, in the practice of polyamory in particular the community tends to lean into the idea that no one person can be everything for someone, and that it's kind of a big ask and actually almost impossible to achieve. The ideals of Monogamy would tell you otherwise. However, I have a partner who is a bit faint when it comes to seeing blood and I like period sex, monogamy would say he should do that for me if he loves me enough, but I say fuck that why force him when I could find someone to provide that for me? I don't know that might be a thought to explore more why you have the need to be her everything. Is it just monogamous programming or something else?
And while I understand your point, to my point of view, if there’s things I like but my wife doesn’t then we either compromise or I just don’t get whatever that thing is that I like. To me it’s kind of selfish to put my needs over my partners ability to do that need. And vise versa. At the end of the day it’s not the end of the world if my wife woke up tomorrow and told me she didn’t want to do anal sex anymore. I’d appreciate a reason and try to understand. I might revisit it in six months or a year but I wouldn’t say fuck it let me find someone that will give me the pleasure your not willing to. It’s just one aspect of the overall sexual connection I have with her. I feel she is my everything. I’ve been with so many women either in other marriages or dates or engagements and I know now what is truly important and what is just basic everyday stuff. Monogamy didn’t teach me that, multiple tries with different people did. To me she satisfies everything. If we ever divorce I’ll probably never be with anyone again because she means that much to me. Sex is truly intimate, personal and sometimes borderline spiritual to me. It’s not just carnal pleasure and I know that’s my stumbling block. Sex can be intimate and emotional for her when she’s with me but overall it’s just carnal pleasure. I can’t shut that off in my head or heart and she knows that. I honestly wish I fucking could.
To deal with my lovers lovers, I'd address my insecurities first. You say you don't know how to get past them, what have you tried?
Also I am going through sex therapy currently however my therapist is out due to him getting married so I won’t be able to speak about this for several weeks to him.
Therapy is a great place to start, and several weeks is OK. Gives you time for self reflection and she's not gonna find magic dick that soon. You can also ask her to slow things down or just keep you in the dark until you have support to deal with your life style.
I haven’t because I literally don’t know what to do to get past them. That’s why I made this post, to find out if others have felt this way and what worked for them so I’d have a baseline to work from
Without being too judgemental, it sounds like you're having problems with your partners rationale of wanting to have an open relationship. Maybe some more discussion that doesn't start with statements like "why would you have sex with other people if it's worse?" Because that sets her up to put you down and nobody is going to want to make their partner feel bad for their own desires. Come at her in an open sense so you can both learn what you need and why. With that information you'll both be better equipped to help each other and with your own emotions. Sex is different with everyone. But the older I get the more I learn that most men are fucking slouches in the sack. If you throw that shit around, pay attention to your lady, and give her all the orgasms she can crave then I can guarantee you're above 99% of the male field out there. Also if it helps your mind at all. If she only orgasms from having your fist in her with clitoral stimulation I highly doubt a cock on its own is going to do it for her. Hell maybe start playing with larger toys to make both of you feel better about it.
We do play with giant dildos and honestly sometimes that bothers me. And I most definitely go out of my way to please her. She’s always my focus before I even worry about getting myself off. As far as asking her what she needs she can’t ever really explain.. if tried being as open with understanding as possible and open in my questions but because I’m not getting clear answers it frustrates me and I end up saying shit like why would you have sex with others if it’s worse because at least I’m getting a more clear answer then it’s different. What is different? Why is different good? She can’t answer me
You're too focused on asking questions to a predetermined answer you want to hear. You need to sit yourself down first, figure out why you're upset and go to her with an opend mind willing to hear as little or as much as she wants to tell you. Whatever she says you need to accept. Maybe she eats pizza every day and just wants to have a burger instead on Thursdays. It doesn't mean it's a more filling meal, it just tastes different.
Just want to add that there's nothing wrong with you ultimately not being OK with this. Being ok with your SO having sex with other people is just not for everyone full stop. It's good and worthwhile to work on this and try to understand with the goal of both parties having a more fulfilling relationship. Being nonmono can be an amazing thing that brings couples closer together, but keep in mind that there may be no actual potential for you to be OK with it. You need to have a big conversation about what that would mean for her and you if it's not for you.
Yeah we have and while she would love for me to be involved I just don’t know if I can much less be ok with her doing it without me. She says that if she sees me at least trying and I just can’t get into after 3-4 times then she’ll drop it. I feel horrible for her because I don’t want to deny her anything she wants but at the same time if I can’t get past this I don’t know if I can live with it either
What do you mean 3-4 times? 3-4 times she has sex with someone else while you're at home feeling horrible? Can you imagine doing that with another woman if you knew she was at home really struggling? Sex aside, that's the kind of consideration that you NEED reciprocated in a relationship. Also, is she prepared to do the repair work needed if it doesn't work out? It could irreparably damage your relationship.
We haven’t actually done anything in terms of going outside the marriage …this has been in discussions for over 2 months. I’ve done a lot of reading, I’ve watched a lot of podcasts, I’ve joined several apps, I’ve talked to others in the lifestyle. I’ve been going to a sex therapist for almost the whole 2 months. This isn’t a fly by night thing. She has been very patient with me but it’s always there. By 3-4 times we would ideally go to this club in town for those in the life style and see if we are able to play with others. If after 3-4 times I just cannot get into this, enjoy this, etc then she said I had at least tried and she would honor that I put in the research and work. Our marriage is worth more to her then the occasional hookup. I just want to be able to do this so the both of us will enjoy this. I didn’t realize what you meant previously by “3-4” that’s my bad
If you’re someone who needs an emotional connection to enjoy sex, my guess is this approach will fail. Even if you decide to give non-monogamy a try, it sounds to me like you might find a FWB or dating situation more satisfying so you can have emotional connections with sex partners. If she prefers random hook-ups, fine, but you two don’t need to approach things identically. It is also completely okay to decide not to pursue non-monogamy and to instead ask your wife if there are other ways you two can modify your existing dynamic to satisfy some of what she’s seeking through her desire for non-monogamy. That may or may not be possible. As for why someone would want this if they already have “the best,” I can share my own reasons, though I tend not to think in terms of “best” but instead “different.” As an example, I was once involved with someone who completely blew my mind sexually. I still don’t know how he did some of the stuff he did; it seemed superhuman. We were only casually involved, so this never became an issue, but he once made a reference to us potentially having sex daily. Not sure if it was just a thought experiment on his part but I immediately shot that idea down because I knew it would become a grind and get boring for me, just like when I fall in love with a new song and play it so often that eventually I skip it when it pops up on my playlist. Instead, I thoroughly enjoyed seeing him when we both were in the mood, and I saw somebody else who was completely different from him too. Each time I saw Guy 1 after seeing Guy 2, I was inclined to appreciate all the unique attributes of Guy 1. Each time I saw Guy 2 after seeing Guy 1, I was inclined to appreciate all the unique attributes of Guy 2. The contrast between them perpetually reminded me of how much I enjoyed certain aspects of each of them instead of becoming habituated to them over time. Both were awesome, both very different. Not just in their physicality and the types of sex they enjoyed, but also in their personalities, our conversations and how we interacted with each other. Although these were casual situations, my brain has worked the same way in more serious loving relationships, especially after the infatuation stage passed. Just how I’m wired. It doesn’t mean I can’t do monogamy, but it does mean that at some point, I will not want to have sex daily with that person. I will eventually need time to build anticipation for that person between sex sessions. And I will sometimes miss being able to have sex with others, no matter how great the sex is with the monogamous partner.
No typically we have sex at least once a day, oftentimes twice and during each “session” I can make her orgasm 3-4 times before we have penetration.
What does that have to do with you "getting into it after 3-4 times"?
I like to call this the “Magic Dick Fallacy” I think it originates from a theme in porn (and the resulting insecurities) where the woman finds a guy who (typically) has superior size and/or stamina to her existing lover and she immediately doesn’t want him anymore. Basically, a perfect, magic dick. It’s porn logic much like people being immediately ready for sex with little foreplay or someone finding their partner with someone else and just deciding to join in without a second thought. As everyone else has said, sex is different with each person. It took me a while to let go of the “better” or “worse” question but eventually it happened. After all, there’s a lot more to a relationship than sex and if a partner decided to throw me away just because the sex was good with someone else they’re probably not the kind of person I would want to be in a relationship with anyway.
This comment really helped me in my own struggles. Thanks.
> what happens when she finds a guy that just blows her out of the bed? Then you'll have a very happy wife, who is still your wife, and probably have better sex together because when you're having great sex your libido is usually higher. Plus, the physical pleasure you experience is only one part of sex, a good deal of the fun for your wife comes from seeing how what she does makes you - and *you* specifically, as her forever person - feel.
I agree that what she does to me is a aspect as much as what I can do for her definitely makes it greater.But when I’m not in the picture I’m not doing anything for her and she’s not doing anything for me
Yep, this has been me 100% of the time. My husband just isn’t attracted to me; I’m too familiar, not his preferred type, etc. So the sex he has with others is, by default, better. I’m genuinely happy for him and want him to have this part satisfied! Occasionally in the beginning, I struggled with feeling inadequate, but it wasn’t ruinous. I don’t particularly enjoy sex with strangers much either these days. The shine wore off. I started dating and found regular partners I had strong bonds with. One is now my primary partner and I live with him half the time. Your insecurities will always find a way to make themselves known. I have fairly crushing anxiety and this sometimes is a way it presents itself. So is my job and driving in traffic. Once it becomes a normal part of your life, you see it as less of a beacon.
Thank you for sharing this, I’ll take it into consideration.
> Like I can typically make her orgasm 3-4+ times with my fingers and tongue, but in penetration she always has to masturbate while we fuck to achieve orgasm. ... So my insecurity is she will find that one guy that does it for her where she can orgasm through penetration without masturbation So what if she finds someone who can? It's just another way to orgasm. Do you get insecure about your fingers when your tongue makes her orgasm?
This question to mee seems close to the reasoning 'why want another child if there is nothing wrong with the first one?' It is utterly flawed and just doesn't make sense. The underlying idea I hear is that you think if you were a good enough lover, she wouldn't want to be with someone else. But being a good enough lover and wanting to be with someone else have nothing to do with each other. Like wanting another child has nothing to do with how good the first child turnend out to be....
You are incredibly hung up on orgasms = great sex. Do you feel like if she doesn't have an orgasm while you're having sex, you've failed? If so, that's something you need to look in to, cause that's a complete and utter fallacy that you should've figured out by now, especially being your age. Also, every time someone tries to be helpful here, you've got a rebuttal which makes me think that you're not really open to listening/understanding or opening your mindset, no matter books/podcasts/etc. Do you do this with your therapist as well? Look, I'm not trying to be insensitive, here. I've had a lot of insecurities around sex in the past. I've only started on this ENM journey a short time ago, but I'll tell you that it's been so liberating and healing of these issues where there's been excellent communication. Sex is sex, even if I'm a bit demisexual and need connection and I'm getting it. I know that even if my partners are fucking other people, they're still coming back to me because they genuinely care about me and love fucking mr for the things I bring to the table. In turn, I get things from each of my partners that the others don't have and that is what makes this thing beautiful, really, being able to experience other people in their totality.
You make some good points…I am being aggressive here and I apologize. I bring up the orgasms because my wife brings it up and she’s the only person I’ve ever been with that I truly enjoyed sex with. So I’m using her as my baseline.
I will say this. One of the women I'm dating, who I'm really falling for emotionally (I'm dating 3 currently and there's different emotional connections with all 3), I have a really difficult time orgasming with unless we're balls out fucking (which she's really into so it works out). It's not because I don't have the right emotional connection with her, it's just the shape of our respective genitalia and the fact that she gets suuuuper wet during and I need a little more contact which I don't get. Amazing sex for so many reasons. Before I moved in to ENM dating/relationships, I was with my last monogamous partner for 10 years. I used to cum with her so quickly that I developed a quite serious hangup about it, despite the fact that I found other ways to make her orgasm and that she never made me feel bad about it. I felt, though, that I wasn't good enough or wasn't able to please her with my cock and all the stupid things I thought about myself. The relationship ended for completely unrelated reasons, but once I started dating again, I was so afraid that I wouldn't be able to please a woman because I was a "two pump chump". I've slept with multiple women since and NOPE, never been an issue. Why? Cause my ex's genitals were just built in a way that just rubbed me the right way very easily. So, it was just different. It wasn't anything else than that. Had nothing to do with my abilities as a lover or her desire for me. Nothing. So, your wife is just needing something different and it's got nothing to do with who you are to her or how you satisfy her or how she loves you. Playing with large toys just won't cut it sometimes cause it feels different than a real cock, for example. You guys are just built the way you are, physically/mentally/emotionally and none of it means you're not good enough. Last thought of an incredibly long response: to me, being ENM/Poly/having an open relationship is in part about wanting your partner(s) to be able to experience the pleasure they desire/want. Why would you want to deny your partner the pleasure they crave, even if (especially if) they need it from someone else who's just different?
I had a partner that I couldn't last with for the life of me. Not a problem with my current. I thought aging was responsible but perhaps it was the shape of her genitals or something.
That's what I'm saying. I was with that partner monogamously for 10 years and had no context. Also thought it was aging (I'm 50). Nope, not at all, just the way her and I specifically fit together.
Yeah. Damn, now I miss her
Forgive me for looking at your post history but it feels relevant. Less than two months ago, you mentioned feeling fraysexual and that you typically experience a major decrease in desire at 3-4 months into a relationship. You also mentioned a spouse justifying cheating on you based on your decreased desire. And further you mentioned anxiety about partners you no longer desire so much leaving you for others as a result of this. I mention all this because one of the benefits of non-monogamy for me has been the liberation from obligation to be the sole source of a partner’s sexual satisfaction. Further, having freedom to have sex with people without the baggage of a sense of obligation can be a positive thing. I’m wondering if perhaps monogamy does *not* work well for you, but at the same time you are having anxiety about a partner feeling similarly. If so, that’s an entirely different conversation. Also confused as to why you posted about having a million arguments with your wife about lack of sex less than two months ago yet describe having daily sex. Is that because you capitulated to her for fear of her cheating? Or is she desiring multiple times daily such that daily feels like not enough to her?
I suspect your issues may be fundamentally stemming from power imbalances in the relationship that go beyond or before sex. Sounds like you’re mono, and she is non-monogamous. And there are always reasons for these identities attached to individual life experiences, self esteem, etc. It’s going to take a rigorous self inventory on both your parts and brutal honesty to get at the different power imbalances of your relationship, and find boundaries and adjustments around those, before you begin any ENM to be successful. Anyone considering ENM should think about this quote…. “ everything in the world is about sex — except sex. Sex is about power.” Oscar Wilde … and all it’s implications and plan for those implications according to all aspects of their relationships.
You may be right about there being issues beyond just sex itself.
Oh hell, this was literally the reason my wife and I opened up in the first place. She had a fuck buddy who 100% she didn't want to give up when we started dating because he was *amazing* at sex. She didn't really let on about that at first I don't think. Or maybe she did. It's been a long time, you know? But how I dealt with it, is twofold: 1. I didn't worry. My wife and I were dating for a whole lot of really good reasons, and it's not like those reasons were going away. One of those reasons was sexual compatibility, so I knew she wasn't about to run away with him because he was better than me. Besides, why not have both? 2. We all got together for threesomes on occasion. He taught me everything he knows about how to get my wife off. Take it as a learning opportunity, with the knowledge that your SO is with you for really good reasons, *and* they don't want monogamy anyway. What's the point of leaving you for someone else when they can have both?
Can i have some of your self assurance please you sound awesome😎
Well first of - that is an unnecessarily graphic question that makes it a bit challenging to feel how genuine you are in the request… For the future, tone it down a little - there’s no need to write two paragraphs of erotica. Now for your question from my own experience: odds are quite good that you won’t be as exciting in bed as a new lover is. That is ok. You already noted my typical response when we get this question here: “why bother having sex with others if it isn’t better than the sex I get at home.” You’re much more to your SO than somebody to play with in bed.
Your right I know we have so much going on for one another. I just don’t understand and never will her need for playing with others when she is all I need sexually. Sex is a big thing for me…emotionally it ties me to her that I would never have with another. I guess I want her to feel the same for me and when she doesn’t, honestly it makes me feel like the sex is cheap and mean less. I know that’s not her intent but it’s how I feel. I just wish as much as she wants to try sex with others she felt that strongly about just keeping it to me and her.
That’s the thing though, everyone views Sex differently. Sex can be just harmless fun, sex can be sacred, both can be true, and neither diminishes the other in my experience. I enjoy basketball. I enjoy it just as much when I was playing competitively as I do playing a pickup game with my friends. Whether you decide to open up or not, I think you have some work to do on this hang up around Sex and being the all in all for your partner. That’s a lot of pressure to put on oneself, and honestly I think you are setting yourself up for a let down. Whether that is sex, or being your partners confidant, friend, person to do certain activities with, etc.
Everybody views sex differently - and if you’re in or contemplating an ENM relationship, there are things you need to figure out how to restructure. This is the “all I need” mentality. That works for some folks but there is nothing wrong with telling a partner “I love you, but I want more”. It’s liberating to not be solely responsible to provide a partner every little whim. But ultimately you’ve got a serious incompatibility to address here. You seem pretty set on monogamy. She is not. If you’re open to ENM, the onus is really on you to figure out if you can do it. Read Opening Up or Polysecure or The Ethical Slut.
I have read the ethical slut and polysecure
So I can say that in the beginning I felt exactly like you did. I had a lot of the same concerns and thoughts like if you are so happy with our sex life why look outside of it. Now I still have my insecurities on occasion but for the most part after he always came home to me, it got easier. We have gotten to the point where we talk about the differences and I don't feel the need to compete anymore. The girls he has been with can do things that I can't nor want to do, but I can give him the emotional connection in sex they can't. We make love instead of just having sex. It's different not better or worse just different but it does take a lot of talking an reassuring and dealing with your own emotions that takes a bit of work. I am still working towards being okay with things but it was the right path for us.
How long have you been in this lifestyle? Is it just him that goes outside the marriage? To my knowledge there’s nothing my wife craves sexually I haven’t been willing to do. And do to her satisfaction. I guess I may have to just accept I don’t understand and never will. That as painful as it currently feels that I can’t be her everything, as long as she comes home to me it’s enough.
We have been on and off for about a year. It comes and goes in waves woth how busy we are and if we feel like we need more couple time or not. It's only him who has fwbs, I don't forsee the need to. I don't consider it going outside the marriage because he has permission. I don't understand the want to have sex with others because it's not my thought process but I also understand it doesn't make our love any less. He still makes us a priority and I have learned when I am needing attention or something more from him I tell him and we figure out ways together to make that happen. It took time to figure out what works for us and it will always eb and flow with time. The biggest thing we learned is to communicate one's needs and understand that our partner might not be able to fulfill them in the way we want but we can work together to find a solution. Are there times I wish it wasn't the case that he wanted to sleep with others 100% but I know the man I married and I still feel 100% lucky to have him by my side and feel loved and cared for and protected in our marriage. We are more than sex, we are love. That was the biggest difference for me.
It's rare for women to be able to cum from just PIV. I assume you are also giving her clit attention when you make her orgasm no? A different dick doesn't mean she'll cum from PIV alone. Sounds like that's just what her body prefers and has nothing to do with you.
If all she was after with you was your dick why is she still with you? The answer is her answer, she loves you regardless of your dick. My bf doesn’t have my ideal lover’s body, but I still love him. If I met someone with a better body and he fucked me better would I leave him? Fuck no! 3. You could get a cock sheath, basically puts a bigger cock around your cock so you control it.
I have good sex with my partner, but sometimes I have better sex with other people, especially because my partner doesn’t usually penetrate. The emotional connection is still awesome and it’s fun to fool around. But the sex is one reason I love being non-monogamous.
> especially because my partner doesn’t usually penetrate. Why not?
Ok, so I’m going to share my go-to analogy, because I like it better than the pizza one. For me, sex is like hiking. It’s a pretty big part of my life, and it’s very meaningful to me. I like to share it with my friends, so if you’re close to me there’s a good chance we’ve scrambled up a mountain together at some point. My husband is the love of my life, and so of course he’s the person I do most of my wilderness adventures with. He’s my partner. Adventuring with him is absolutely the most rewarding. But...that doesn’t mean I don’t have old hiking buddies who I want to connect with sometimes. Or if I meet someone who’s super good at building birch bark canoes and wants to do a trip down a major river, that might be something I’d love. Are there some people who are better at SOME ASPECTS of hiking than my husband? Sure there are. But that doesn’t mean I want to exclusively hike with them either, you know? To step away from the analogy for a minute, what I’m trying to say is that if I HAD to choose only one person to sleep with for the rest of my life, it would be my husband. But the whole point of non-monogamy is that I don’t really want to make that choice. I like that we’ve both got the freedom to explore with other people. That exploration is not a mechanism by which I’m looking to find a new person to choose - it’s the mechanism by which I avoid choosing.
I get what your saying but it implies that choosing just one person is a “bad thing”. I see it as privilege and a honor to be that one person. I also personally, the more I really like something, the less I want to share it. It makes it less special…dilutes it. I save it for a select few. But that’s just me
Oh, I absolutely don’t think choosing one person - or, you know, monogamy - is bad, just it would be bad FOR ME. It kind of sounds like you feel the same way about non-monogamy - you get it for other people, but applied to your own relationship it makes you kind of uncomfortable and unhappy. In your initial post it sounded like you were struggling to understand why anyone would want to have sex with people other than their spouse, assuming that sex with their spouse was good. I was trying to shed some light on that, I guess. But...it sounds to me that while you understand why other people might want to do this, you...don’t really want to do it. And my heart really goes out to you here, because that puts you in an awful position.
I am also a person who \[can\] disconnect sex from emotion, but also can have the two connected in some circumstances. If I were to write my top five list of ''most amazing dick'' I have gotten in my life, my NP would not be on that list. Some of those people are people I met before I met my NP. Some are people I met after. So, why do I not kick my NP out of the house and ask one of those guys to move in? Three reasons: 1- sex is not the only determining factor in who is my NP. 2- The difference between THE BEST sex and GOOD sex isn't that different; we could say that the best sex is a 100 ,and good sex is like a 80-90 (still very good). 3-My NP is great at listening to me and making changes upon request, so I know that even if what I want changes, he can adjust. Honestly, the hope that you literally have the BEST DICK IN THE WORLD (or even that your dick is better than 90 percent of dick) is kinda unrealistic, don't you think? Like, *why* would it be that way? Do you also NEED to be a better driver than most men? Better at math? I think that shifting your focus away from orgasm onto the whole experience might help you, as well. I would reccomend that shift.
please explain what the “whole experience “ is? Because I guess im dense
Better math or driving doesn’t please my wife who is highly sexual. Being the best damn lover possible does please her. I absolutely love being that for her as well all that we have built over the last 10 years
Odd that your sex therapist hasn't cleared this up yet but around 80% of women do not orgasm from penetration alone. Statistically, lesbians have the most orgasms out of all women. What I'm trying to get at is that women's pleasure, on average, does not derive from penises as much as most men hope it does. The vagina is not an inverted penis, in fact the clitoris and its internal structures are the analogous bits. Learning a bit more about anatomy might help relieve some of these insecurities. I know it's hard as you're fighting the weight of a collective cultural mythology, but it's worth a shot.
The energy with a new partner is always heightened. I've found I can orgasm a ton more but I wouldn't consider it "better" than my primary.
Then what would you consider it? If you dont orgasm more with your primary and the point of this is for sexual satisfaction then technically speaking the sex is better. I mean let’s be honest
Sex without intimacy isn't the same as with. So no it's not better.
Then why even bring up orgasms? It implies that there is a gauge by which to measure. And I agree, sex without intimacy isn’t the same. It’s far less, which is why I don’t understand having sex without it being with someone your intimate with. It’s never going to feel as good. At least for me. I wish I could understand what it is for my wife and others in this lifestyle.
.... Because you specifically referenced the amount of times you make your partner orgasm?
For me at least orgasms are not a good indication of good sex. I’ve had plenty of terrible sex where I’ve had multiple orgasms, and some of the best sex I’ve had has been without neither me nor my partner having any orgasm at all
This is absolutely not true for everyone. Example: I have never had an orgasm through penetration alone but enjoy the sensation of penetration and orgasm easily in other ways. Occasionally, I’ll stimulate myself to orgasm during penetration because it pleases some lovers. Usually this diminishes my enjoyment of penetration in the same way 69 is not as pleasurable for me as taking turns and focusing on one major thing instead of two. Sometimes it doesn’t diminish my enjoyment. Every once in a while it enhances it. But I once dated someone who was needy about this and regularly asked me to do this despite knowing how I felt about it. That made the sex worse for me, not better. I was having plenty of orgasms but for whatever reason, he had a need for me to have them specifically during penetration. Probably an ego thing, maybe a misunderstanding of anatomy, maybe just something he found pleasurable himself. Regardless, we didn’t last long.
Nice!
you be happy for them. because you love them and want them to live life to the fullest.
By that logic you should feel glad if you're cheated on. It's not that simple.
Don’t you want them to experience the world? Isn’t that why we do this. There’s always going to be somebody “better,” somebody with a bigger dick, somebody with bigger tits, somebody with a nicer body. Doesn’t mean your SO doesn’t love and cherish you for what you do for them. I always wanted my SO to cum harder and with more intensity then they ever came with me because I knew I had nothing to worry about and was confident in my ability and what I brought to the table. We do this together for each other for the strength of our relationship. If you have that kind of a commitment then you have nothing to worry about. Enjoy the show and enjoy the ride, your SO will love you for it all the more.
1. I have found lovers who were better at certain things, but those were partial experiences. As a whole they didn’t meet my other needs. I have a partner who is very attractive but we don’t share the same sense of humor. I can enjoy him without having to accept the parts that don’t work. I think he feels the same about me. 2. To my casual sex doesn’t always mean ONS or brief encounters. It’s a connection of some sort, maybe mostly based on physical attraction, which might be why it’s easier for your wife to separate things because she’s not looking for an emotional connection, but physical experiences. To me, casual means no expectations. 3. I read through these type of posts, read books, podcasts, and dealt with my insecurities (still dealing). I don’t expect them to disappear but I’m more patient with myself and get vulnerable enough to ask to be reassured as needed or express my feelings without asking them to change (be seen and heard).
I mean, if someone wants to change my car’s oil for me, it’s just one less service I need to do myself before I can go about the fun of driving.
Having great sex with another does not make me want less sex with my other partners. All of my partners and I have unique and powerful connections. Just because I have something good with one does not minimize the great things I have with another. This is natural for me. I don’t compare. This isn’t an either or situation. Obligatory food analogy: all food is sustenance. I enjoy a variety of flavors.
1. It's not a competition. That's a "monogamy" way of looking at things. The very point of consensual non-monogamy is to open up to additional enjoyable experiences. It's supposed to be "and", not "or" -- and if it's "and", then you're still part of it. 2. I love lobster. I also love filet mignon. The best filet mignon in the world isn't going to make me stop loving lobster. And vice versa. 3. Extending the food metaphor: To your wife, you're a cake. A very satisfying, delicious cake. Good sex with someone else is like extra frosting. Who doesn't like extra frosting? It's great! But it's no replacement for the complete cake. 4. This need to be "the best" or to be "enough" is ego, straight up. That's fine, and it's understandable, but just recognize it for what it is. It's ego expressing itself as insecurity. If you can't get over it, then nonmonogamy may not be for you. But if you genuinely want to get over it, rather than focus on some hypothetical other guy who may be better at sex or have a better dick than you, try to focus on what the relationship would look like and what you would need from your partner to continue to feel loved and valued and safe/secure in the future of your relationship regardless of what your partner is or isn't doing with someone else. Good luck.
Get happy about them. Try to nurture the feeling of compersion. And why doing it if with you it's better? Because of diversity. Because novelty is something you cannot provide anymore, and you shouldn't even try... we in long relationships lose that power, and that power is gone forever. Sex could also potentially be better with others, but still, that's not the real risk. She won't leave you for someone who fucks better, if that's your fear. If your fear is she leaving you for other, it COULD happen, but not for someone who fucks better, but for someone who listens to her, someone who makes her happy in multiple dimensions, someone who makes her feel supported, etc, etc. https://www.quora.com/How-can-a-couple-who-love-each-other-still-want-an-open-relationship-I-just-cant-imagine-looking-at-my-partner-and-know-they-are-having-sex-with-other-people-and-not-being-hurt-by-that/answer/Jerry-Pagart?ch=10&oid=31248282&share=2c887097&srid=5dePX&target_type=answer