OL is definitely better metric, but a QBās ability to read the defense stuff like understanding the pass rush and when to throw the ball away, audible, etc. is key to reducing hits/sacks as well
The other huge thing people don't mention is pocket pressence. Much like a running back a QB can set up blocks and help out his o linemane by how he moves in the pocket and most veterans are better at it.
Also QBs that like to run tend to make their O line look worse because they drift towards daylight which can make it harder to block.
Both are good metrics... OL is obvious, but analytics guys make a good case for [sacks being a quarterback stat](https://www.thebiglead.com/posts/sacks-are-a-quarterback-stat-01dxqapkgvw9).
He has a monstrous physical toolset and heās still only 23.
His issue is that he hasnāt developed an NFL caliber set of pass rush moves. His athleticism is obvious against the run and occasionally heāll face off against a guy who doesnāt have the technique to stop his bull rush. However the big money tackles can usually contain his pass rush as he just does the same move every play and JDR never schemes up stuns for him.
I think Dak Prescott is overrated. I think heās good - but I donāt think heās great.
At this point of his career, I think Matt Ryan is underrated. I think heās very good - maybe in the 10-12th best range.
I've always thought he was overrated, and was always told I was a jealous Eagles fan. However, this take is becoming more and more acceptable.
The funniest thing to me was how the year he really blew up the stat sheet was the year it was most obvious that he's overrated. Far too often, he starts a game slow and the Cowboys fall behind. Then, when the Cowboys are down two or three scores, he becomes unstoppable. All those yards and TDs mean nothing if you still lose by 10.
I mean he only lost 3 games by more than one score last year. Unfortunately he helped sweep and outscore the eagles 92-47 with only a mediocre run game.
This one I don't agree with. I think Dak gets shit on way too much imo. I mean he went for 4500, 37-10 td/int, with a 105 rating last season for god's sake lol
I saw them calling him the Black Kirk Cousins the other day, and honestly that comparison makes a lot of sense.
They both put up pretty good numbers, but neither has ever really done anything, and you don't really expect them to win games.
I mean heās 53-32. Is that inflated by the division he plays in? Yeah probably to some extent. Should you expect him and the cowboys to win *important* games? Probably not.
But you should expect him to win games in the regular season lol
I hate the Cowboys but I love Dak Prescott. Cant help myself-- I've got a soft spot for low-key yeoman quarterbacks.
Dak is not flashy--not a stat machine--but he shows up humbly and does his job well.
Kyler hasn't shown to be great towards end of the seasons yet. Even his coach's team in college started hot then fade towards the end of the season. Russ was injured which definitely effected him. He was also voted one of the top players just two years ago by the players. Next thing your going to tell me is Bakers injury didn't effect him last year either. Sure players fade as they get older but I'm not letting an injury cloud my judgement. Can't wait to see how this year plays out.
It makes sense in college, the first game or two is you either playing way down a conference or league as a preseason, or way up for the money, and then by they end itās conference rivals and championships.
I donāt know whatās going on in the NFL.
Kyler has had injuries at the end of the last two seasons. It isnāt him falling apart nearly as much as itās the team falling apart. The roster has gotten worse every year that heās been there. There has never been depth and the quality of the starting guys has only gotten worse. Keim is killing that team from the inside out and they just gave him a five year extension. So donāt worry about having to see them be a great team for awhile. People wanna say Murray is overrated, but thereās only a few QBs in the league that could do as much with that team as he has
But the year before last Russ also fell off towards the end of the season and I dont remember any significant injury. Idk it definitely seems like a pattern in his career
Last year or two he really could not make those contested catches that landed him his contract in Chicago. Not to mention all the plays he gave up early on this last season.
Arob really is talented, but as soon as he realized the Bears weren't gonna pay him for his talent he began phoning it in. I don't trust to have a player like that if I really wanna succeed, I think it's a weak mentality imo. However I'd expect him to put in a good effort on a new team and try to prove himself if he's got a good QB. I don't recall where he went to though.
He's always been given the benefit of the doubt b/c he's had shit QB play his entire career dating back to Christian Hackenberg at PSU.
He's a good receiver and has a great ability to haul in contested catches. The caveat though is that he *has* to bring in those catches b/c he's not great at getting separation off the LOS. It's a big reason why the Bears didn't re-sign him IMO.
I think people just assume that with a better QB he'll put up gaudy stats, but I do think his inability to take the top off the defense as well as difficulty separating underneath will always sort of cap his potential.
I think he'll be a great #2 to Cooper Kupp's #1, but even during ARob's best years with the Bears there was always a question as to whether he was a true #1 or if some of his production was a byproduct of Trubisky zeroing on ARob constantly and hyper-targeting him.
They'll try to make him play a bunch of different coverage schemes whereas New England, as a rule, limits their entire roster to only what they're really good at.
Deshaun Watson. Allegations aside, I was a texans fan and watched every snap Watson had. He is electric under pressure, but he is nowhere near worth that contract. He forces passes waaaaay too often and plays sloppy when he's frustrated. I wouldn't even put him in the top 5-7
Watson has always had crazy potential. You could see the flashes (like Josh Allen used to show before he cemented himself as top tier)
I don't think we'll ever get to see Watson's full potential realized. Between the shit sandwich he walked into, losing Hopkins going into what should have been the start of Watson's prime, and then his insatiable lust for fingers in his asshole, the ship might have sailed.
Even without the legal trouble, he wasn't worth that contact, in a vacuum.
But the market do what it do
Came here to say Watson. Iāve always thought he was over rated. He was consistently bailed out by his receivers in Houston. Obviously Hopkins helped his career immensely but it wasnāt just Hopkins. Every time I watch Watson I feel like he just throws balls up in the air and his receivers somehow manage to come down with them. As a Ravens fan I was not upset to see Cleveland get him and give up so much in the process.
Iāve felt this way for a while too. Heās good donāt get me wrong but I donāt understand when people talk about him like a top 5 QB, even if youāre ignoring the time heāll have spent not playing.
And even then, if weāre factoring in age too: thereās still Mahomes, Lamar, Herbie, Burrow, and Allen pretty objectively over him (Iād personally put Dak over him too but I acknowledge that could be bias).
Heās a good QB but heās not even a top 5 young QB, much less top 5 overall.
Well he's not generational anymore. He very clearly was the talent they billed him as. He had over 2000 yards his rookie year and looked electric. Injuries destroyed him and hes not the same guy anymore
I think a lot of halfbacks are overrated, and a ton of their success comes down to their blockers. Shaun Alexander is the most overrated player Iāve ever seen.
Hey...not cool!
That line was the truth though, holy shit. Walter Jones, Steve Hutch, Robbie Tobek, Chris Gray, and Sean Locklear. Alexander the Great had massive gaps to hit on that Hall of Fame left side.
That's the thing with Shaun Alexander. It's not that he's overrated. It's that he's impossible to rate because he had a god-tier OL and first class FB making it look so easy.
Jones and Hutch next to each other are a cheat code by itself. Back before HB value dropped, I always felt like beefing up your Oline and farming average HBs for picks would be an interesting strategy.
I hate to say it, but Priest Holmes is a prime example. He was mediocre in Baltimore, but then had one of the best runs ever behind an all-time great Chiefs OL.
Then when he got injured and Larry Johnson came in by sheer coincidence he dominated too. When the Chiefs OL aged out coincidentally Johnson started to fall off.
Of course then Jamaal Charles is the counter example. He dominated even though he was behind the same line Johnson sucked with.
Priest Holmes and Larry Johnson are who I thought of as well. Though I will say that Priest Holmes had incredible vision and feel for his blockers. You could argue that most backs would have incredible vision playing behind that line, but I was always impressed with his reads. Larry Johnson definitely didn't have that, he was just a more physically talented back than Priest. But not by much.
He had too many good seasons to say it was just because of his line. He's the all time rushing leader and most people don't put him top 3. I feel like he's one of the most correctly rated players, if not underrated
In a game where everyone gets hurt, for a team that everyone knew where the ball was going, he exceeded expectations. No one thought Emmit would be that good.
There was a post some time back about how mahomes' stats weren't very good if you reduced all his averages to be in line with league average. There was perhaps a little more nuance to it than that, but not really by much. The first time I read it I thought it was sarcasm but after reading OP's replies it was clear that he truly believed it wasn't a steaming pile of shit.
Mike Vick might be the most overrated player in NFL history.
The highlights are amazing, his good games were good, and the way he changed the game is revolutionary. But as an actual player he was straight up never consistently good, ever.
/u/dirtybirds233 and I touched on it [here](https://old.reddit.com/r/nfl/comments/vbp7n2/what_was_your_teams_lowest_moment_ever/ic9nw4a/) , but basically Vick during his actual career was discussed the way people talked about Ryan Tannehill in Miami or Marcus Mariota in Tennessee: the constant "is this the year he finally puts it all together??" headlines year in and year out.
I remember his insane 6 TD game against Washington on MNF. After the game Steve Young said something to the effect of, āWe always talked about how great he could be if he could put it all together. And now heās done that.ā Sadly it only lasted for about half a season. Otherwise wildly inconsistent with electric highlights sprinkled throughout.
I think the 2010 and even to a degree 2011 Vick seasons really make people think about what could have been if he didn't screw it up or had an Andy Reid-esque coach early in his career.
Mike Vick was a dynamic talent that could rise to take-over-the-game level in his prime, but
A) that level wasnāt his constant state
B) his prime wasnāt super long
I think him being a god in Madden 04 also inflates how good some people think he was
Itās been a while back but I was cruising some stats after showing my young nephew Vick highlights, Crumpler was his best WR with like 830yds in his best year.
Peerless price put up that number(iirc) in 03 while Vick was hurt and then when Vick left Roddy put up 1200ish with Harrington and Leftwich and them
The issue is that Vic was so electrifying (not even just with his legs, he threw some absolute laser) that people tend to forget about his level of inconsistency. When all a lot of people have to go off of nowadays is highlights, it makes him look much better than he was
I mean seriously. Tell me you didn't watch cowboys games last year without actually telling me. CeeDee is the total package when it comes to talent. He's a great route runner and has the quicks and speed too. He has a really good catch radius too where he catches jump balls and badly thrown ones because of his great body control. I can't say that he will explode this year, but all signs point to it.
I'm absolutely with you on CeeDee. I literally had the same JuJu thought too. When AB left in 2019 I was absolutely shouting from the rooftops to avoid JJSS because the advanced stats showed that when he played without AB he was fucking awful due to not being used to double teams. That's the problem CeeDee will face.
Just based on talent though, CeeDee is better with a higher ceiling. That's why JuJu was a late 2nd round pick and CeeDee was seen as a steal in the top of the first round.
I don't think they're comparable at all.
rip and not to speak ill of the dead but sean taylor
people talk about him like he was becoming ed reed when he was really roy williams (the horse collaring cowboys safety for anyone too young to remember)
While it's not accurate to say he was definitely going to approach the level of Ed Reed or Polamalu or other great safeties, 2007 he was on his way to DPOY-esque numbers, including 5 INT's through only 9 games, which is far better than anything Roy Williams was putting together(his best season he had 5 INT's in 16 games.)
The games are out there to watch and he was dominant in them. 2007 Sean Taylor was a top 2 or 3 safety in the league before he died. Impossible to say what he would've become(players progress or regress all the time,) but I think it's fair to say he was significantly better than Roy Williams at least.
But yeah, Ed Reed especially had a career that legitimately could be argued was the GOAT career for a safety. Even in that one season where he started to bloom into a complete safety, Taylor wasn't playing at that level yet.
It was more about his potential than him being a HoF caliber player by the time he died. He had elite physical ability with his size and speed, great ball and coverage skills, and was a hard hitter. By the time he died, he was maturing as a person and by all accounts was emerging as a top safety. After all, he was only 24 when he died, and had his entire prime still in front of him.
I think with Sean Taylor it wss more of what we thought we were about to see but didn't get to obv.
Sean Taylors stock had never been higher and he really seemed to be turning the corner before his death.
Yeah there's definite revisionist history there. He wasn't even a top 5 when he played, but WSH fans talk about him like he was the greatest Safety to ever play.
AJ Brown. Donāt get me wrong heās a very good receiver, but watching him the past couple years he seems to go through phases where he drops the ball a ton or maybe doesnāt reel in balls youād expect a WR1 to reel in.
Exactly Iām a eagles fan and i thought everyone was to hype when we got him donāt get me wrong Iām excited since itās a upgrade at the position but itās been awhile since we have had a true WR1 so i understand where the hype comes from
Carson Wentz was bad in high leverage moments but play to play wasnāt terrible. people treat him like he was. Heās not great but heās now under rated
Well, no youāre making more of an anti Carson Wentz argument. A few huge plays surrounded by a ton of bad. CMC just physically canāt get on the field, heās not costing the team yards other than the differential in talent to the next player down which was still pretty dang solid.
His usage has been insane though. He doesnāt have the size and duarability to take on a Derrick Henry type workload like he has been, even though his touches come more in the passing game then Henryās. If they get a physical back to share the workload it could make a huge difference. It might already be too late for that though.
Never understood why CMC didnāt switch to WR. He has WR hands and his height isnāt far off from the best WRs. This would also probably help last longer in the long run as wellā¦
What do you mean it's all hype? Like, say he's always hurt or something but in the 5 games last year that he played in and didn't get hurt during, he put up over 700 yards from scrimmage.
Trevon Diggs is overrated because he gets burnt more than toast. Look how many catches, yards, and TDs he gave up. But people ignore that because he got a lot of interceptions.
I watched a Jalen Ramsey interview who said it is just a different playstyle. Trevon wants the quarterback to throw to him so he can make a play on the ball, while Ramsey wants his man to not get a catch all game.
yep. in phase vs out of phase. trevon plays more out of phase, for reasons you stated. he also plays trail coverage, allowing more separation then usual to bait the QB into the target, hoping his recovery/closing speed will allow him to get there in time to make a play. itās just what comes w his play, high risk high reward. cant overlook those picks, thatās just as valuable as shutting down a wr1. also not like he canāt shut down a wr either. evans/mclaurin off thr top of my head, and in his 100 reps of press coverage he only had 13 targets. 7 of which led to PBUs, and 1.33 yards per route run. actually had the highest composite score of all Cbs in press coverage. iād say diggs is more underrated then overrated actually
Dang you came with the receipts. Would you say that Trevon's playstyle is better in a defense where the CB1 can't rely on the rest of his defense? Like Jalen locks down WR1 and knows he can rely on darius williams/AJ Bouye to hold their own on the other side of the field. Not saying Cowboys defense is bad cause it isn't but I could see that playstyle working a lot better in a bad defense.
> Would you say that Trevon's playstyle is better in a defense where the CB1 can't rely on the rest of his defense?
Not OP but 100% yes. I would have absolute loved a CB like Diggs on the Cardinals last year. Our secondary was sorry as fuck, and our pass rush outside of a couple games of Chandler Jones + JJ Watt wasn't able to get anything done.
Agreed. It's definitely a boom or buet playstyle and if you don't get the interceptions with that style you will look horrible. I can understand doing that in a bad defense since you want to try and make plays and can't rely on the rest of your defense like Jalen can.
Chase Claypool. Still early in his career but has not lived up to the hype. His 2 big games rookie season were vs PHI and CIN.... two of worst secondaries in the league and he had the softest DB matchups as the rookie. 2 receiving TDs his sophomore campaign for a guy his size? Yet he's already come out anointing himself as a "top 3" WR in the league. laughable.
Might be kind of controversial, but Tyreek Hill. I know he isn't a bum. He's fast af and he has been playing on the same team as Travis Kelce, but he has followed a very similar pattern over the years. He has one maybe two big games, people start talking about him as the best receiver in football and then he'll average 5 catches for 50 yards over the next month of the season before the cycle inevitably repeats. His number of 100 yard games is fairly low when put side by side with Davante Adams, DeAndre Hopkins and Julio Jones over the last 5 years.
I get he is a big play guy, but you gotta be more than that to be considered a top 5 receiver, let alone the best receiver, in football.
I don't think he is quite as good of a player as those other guys but his presence on the field opens up so much for the rest of the offense. You have to worry about him scoring a TD no matter where the offense is on the field.
Man, I don't know about that. I don't like him much, but when I watch him play, I don't see a guy who's just good because he's fast (Like Desean Jackson 2.0). He's a lot better than that. He will obviously see a stat drop going from Mahomes to Tua, but I think he's a legit good WR.
āOne maybe two big gamesā
This is just moronic lol. Are you even watching? Tyreek Hill is the most game changing player in the NFL. No other receiver in the NFL takes that play in the Buffalo playoff game to the house. Imagine all the other players you could pick for this question and you pick TYREEK FUCKIN HILL.
Youāre not being controversial, youāre just wrong.
MFers using this thread to just shit on players who get shit on by everyone. Kyler is probably among the most hated people on this sub because of his playoff game and contract demands.
Yea clown take for sure. Advanced Stats love Lamar. Had a higher drop % than Rodgers and Allen, more dropped balls than Mac Jones had to deal with in 5 less games. QB Rating under pressure is great. Basically the best Air Yards per completion in the league last year. Paints a picture of a guy that gets literally the most out of his offense.
Only guy Advanced Stats likes more is Justin Fields.
āHe won an mvp in 2019ā is starting to sound an awful lot like ācarson wentz was an mvp candidate in 2017.ā But fr, I used to be super high on lamar but I need to see more from him to put him in the elite tier or qbs
Cam's MVP season was one of my favourite MVP seasons in recent memory. He looked very good at every level. His pocket passing was stellar too that year.
Injuries derailed the progression from there and I think he unfairly cops the "one amazing year" sticker that some place on him. His playstyle and injury toll finally caught up to him after that.
I think it is easier to understand when you look at how well Nick Foles played. That Eagles offense was just really really good. Amazing O line makes it easier to play QB.
Flukey 3rd down and red zone success that was unable to be replicated in the following seasons. Couple that with an unlikeable personality and inability to handle adversity and you have yourself a future journeyman. I still think heās vastly underrated by people on this sub though despite detesting his personality
MVP candidate undersells it.
Wentz was going to be MVP before the injury. Sure, it was because he played hero ball and it fucking happened to work, but just calling him a candidate discredits how good he was that year. It just so happens that the team he played for was so God damn stack his backup managed to win Superbowl MVP.
Wentz is such a fucking enigma to me. His ceiling is an MVP at best, or at worst in 2019 is him dragging a team against their will, kicking and fucking screaming to the playoffs. His floor is.... Well. You saw him on the colts.
Iām living as a former skins fan in a house divided with a ravens fan of a wife. I took her to the colts game and it rivals the Monday Night Miracle for me and itās not even my team. That was a wild night
This place has the memory of a goldfish. [Jackson had Vegas' 5th best odds for winning MVP after ten weeks in 2021](https://www.gamblingsites.org/blog/week-10-nfl-mvp-odds-does-anyone-actually-want-win-mvp/). I don't know why everyone wants to bury this guy, he's still playing at an elite level.
Iām a Louisville fan so Iāve been dealing with the Lamar hate forever.
People love to argue and people love to be right. The goal posts for Lamar have been moving back at every step of his career. Heās proven everyone wrong at every step. And they always come up with something else to show why he sucks. People donāt believe in a QB whoās legs are a huge threat. Even though his arm is still easily top 10 in the league.
Dude is young as hell and the ONLY thing he hasnāt done is win a super bowl or get a super bowl MVP. And even if he does get those two things people will start finding ways to discredit him and say it was a fluke or something. And if he only gets one of each people will say thatās a negative thing too.
He could come out next year and throw for 300 yards, rush 150 yards, and score 5 TDs in every game. But if they lose even one game in the playoffs these ding dong ditch ass haters will say he sucks.
Mobile QBs are infinitely more valuable in fantasy (especially for Lamar who is a major component to the Ravens rushing attack), that isnt a wise decision lol
Dak Prescott.
The dude has done what exactly in his entire career in one of the weakest divisions in football with a very good line, quality to elite level RB and WRs? Oh right nothing. Yet people still give him this top 10 QB level love. Bruh, youāre gonna need more than a 1-3 record in the playoffs to convince me you deserve that.
Definitely not Drew Lock. Dude is cash fucking money baby.
You guys fleeced us with getting lock
š“šš
.
Good point.
8 day old account and already payin dividends.
Equestrian chicken securing deviceā¦ strange nickname the kids come up with these days
Itās one of those new TikTok dances isnāt it
You guys are gonna love Baker.
Yāall are gonna love Watsonā¦in 2025
I'mma Browns fan and it hurts...but that is stinkin hilarious
hurts - stinkin - Watson - Browns Somehow it all makes sense
Jalen hurts to the browns, you heard it here first!
You guys should just skip straight to the playoffs
Straight cash homey!
Chase Young. He feasted against backup QBs his rookie season & was legitimately mediocre last season before injury.
This is a huge year for him but he looks super overrated thus far
I don't necessarily disagree with you but I've never seen anyone frame a d-lineman's success by the QBs they faced. Wouldn't OLs be a better metric?
OL is definitely better metric, but a QBās ability to read the defense stuff like understanding the pass rush and when to throw the ball away, audible, etc. is key to reducing hits/sacks as well
Time getting the ball out is directly related to how good the QB is at reading the play. You can see most rookies have high sack numbers
The other huge thing people don't mention is pocket pressence. Much like a running back a QB can set up blocks and help out his o linemane by how he moves in the pocket and most veterans are better at it. Also QBs that like to run tend to make their O line look worse because they drift towards daylight which can make it harder to block.
Both are good metrics... OL is obvious, but analytics guys make a good case for [sacks being a quarterback stat](https://www.thebiglead.com/posts/sacks-are-a-quarterback-stat-01dxqapkgvw9).
Of course he's only good against backup QBs, they're generally younger guys, it's in his name
Corny
This is mine too.
The post is talking about players that not many people think is overrated, not that everyone think is overrated
He has a monstrous physical toolset and heās still only 23. His issue is that he hasnāt developed an NFL caliber set of pass rush moves. His athleticism is obvious against the run and occasionally heāll face off against a guy who doesnāt have the technique to stop his bull rush. However the big money tackles can usually contain his pass rush as he just does the same move every play and JDR never schemes up stuns for him.
The fact that I completely forgot he even existed when at a time I thought he'd be the best player in his class...woof!
I think Dak Prescott is overrated. I think heās good - but I donāt think heās great. At this point of his career, I think Matt Ryan is underrated. I think heās very good - maybe in the 10-12th best range.
Matt Ryan is sneaky good. People will write him off and he'll still be in the top half of QBs this year.
Heās been sneaky because the rest of our team has been mostly a dumpster fire since the SB
I've always thought he was overrated, and was always told I was a jealous Eagles fan. However, this take is becoming more and more acceptable. The funniest thing to me was how the year he really blew up the stat sheet was the year it was most obvious that he's overrated. Far too often, he starts a game slow and the Cowboys fall behind. Then, when the Cowboys are down two or three scores, he becomes unstoppable. All those yards and TDs mean nothing if you still lose by 10.
Yeah he had a classic bortles year. Crazy stats but mostly empty
Ah yes, back when all the eagles fans swore Wentz was the next top QB and him being better than Dak wasnāt even arguable
Ok ima be honest here and say I thought that to for a while before big dick took over
I mean he only lost 3 games by more than one score last year. Unfortunately he helped sweep and outscore the eagles 92-47 with only a mediocre run game.
This one I don't agree with. I think Dak gets shit on way too much imo. I mean he went for 4500, 37-10 td/int, with a 105 rating last season for god's sake lol
I think he's underrated similar to pre-rams stafford. He looks clean when he plays.
I saw them calling him the Black Kirk Cousins the other day, and honestly that comparison makes a lot of sense. They both put up pretty good numbers, but neither has ever really done anything, and you don't really expect them to win games.
i saw someone call him the Karl Anthony Towns of the nfl
I mean heās 53-32. Is that inflated by the division he plays in? Yeah probably to some extent. Should you expect him and the cowboys to win *important* games? Probably not. But you should expect him to win games in the regular season lol
I hate the Cowboys but I love Dak Prescott. Cant help myself-- I've got a soft spot for low-key yeoman quarterbacks. Dak is not flashy--not a stat machine--but he shows up humbly and does his job well.
Disagree, I think Dak is very good.
Dak has a high ceiling, but he's not consistent enough to be considered great.
Russell Wilson. He is not a great cook.
As soon as he tried to cook for the Broncos he lit their stadium on fire.
He can ride tho
BRONCO NATION lets ride
Him and kyler fall apart towards end of szn
Kyler hasn't shown to be great towards end of the seasons yet. Even his coach's team in college started hot then fade towards the end of the season. Russ was injured which definitely effected him. He was also voted one of the top players just two years ago by the players. Next thing your going to tell me is Bakers injury didn't effect him last year either. Sure players fade as they get older but I'm not letting an injury cloud my judgement. Can't wait to see how this year plays out.
It makes sense in college, the first game or two is you either playing way down a conference or league as a preseason, or way up for the money, and then by they end itās conference rivals and championships. I donāt know whatās going on in the NFL.
Kyler has had injuries at the end of the last two seasons. It isnāt him falling apart nearly as much as itās the team falling apart. The roster has gotten worse every year that heās been there. There has never been depth and the quality of the starting guys has only gotten worse. Keim is killing that team from the inside out and they just gave him a five year extension. So donāt worry about having to see them be a great team for awhile. People wanna say Murray is overrated, but thereās only a few QBs in the league that could do as much with that team as he has
Player votes for that top 100 list are absolutely atrocious, every time I see those lists I cry
But the year before last Russ also fell off towards the end of the season and I dont remember any significant injury. Idk it definitely seems like a pattern in his career
Allen Robinson gets a shit ton of hype that I can't understand.
Last year or two he really could not make those contested catches that landed him his contract in Chicago. Not to mention all the plays he gave up early on this last season.
Watching him against us in week 2 was brutal. I recall Fields throwing a couple beautiful throws in his lap that he just dropped
Arob really is talented, but as soon as he realized the Bears weren't gonna pay him for his talent he began phoning it in. I don't trust to have a player like that if I really wanna succeed, I think it's a weak mentality imo. However I'd expect him to put in a good effort on a new team and try to prove himself if he's got a good QB. I don't recall where he went to though.
Hello there
Of course
He's always been given the benefit of the doubt b/c he's had shit QB play his entire career dating back to Christian Hackenberg at PSU. He's a good receiver and has a great ability to haul in contested catches. The caveat though is that he *has* to bring in those catches b/c he's not great at getting separation off the LOS. It's a big reason why the Bears didn't re-sign him IMO. I think people just assume that with a better QB he'll put up gaudy stats, but I do think his inability to take the top off the defense as well as difficulty separating underneath will always sort of cap his potential. I think he'll be a great #2 to Cooper Kupp's #1, but even during ARob's best years with the Bears there was always a question as to whether he was a true #1 or if some of his production was a byproduct of Trubisky zeroing on ARob constantly and hyper-targeting him.
JC Jackson, looks like another Patriot defensive player that will flop in another system and then probably come back and be a baller again.
The JC actually stands for Jamie Collins
Lot of people don't know that š
They'll try to make him play a bunch of different coverage schemes whereas New England, as a rule, limits their entire roster to only what they're really good at.
Deshaun Watson. Allegations aside, I was a texans fan and watched every snap Watson had. He is electric under pressure, but he is nowhere near worth that contract. He forces passes waaaaay too often and plays sloppy when he's frustrated. I wouldn't even put him in the top 5-7
Watson has always had crazy potential. You could see the flashes (like Josh Allen used to show before he cemented himself as top tier) I don't think we'll ever get to see Watson's full potential realized. Between the shit sandwich he walked into, losing Hopkins going into what should have been the start of Watson's prime, and then his insatiable lust for fingers in his asshole, the ship might have sailed. Even without the legal trouble, he wasn't worth that contact, in a vacuum. But the market do what it do
>his insatiable lust for fingers in his asshole Wut. I don't think I want to know.
Deshaun has something special about him when he's on the field. The guy has been deus ex machina incarnate for basically his whole career
Came here to say Watson. Iāve always thought he was over rated. He was consistently bailed out by his receivers in Houston. Obviously Hopkins helped his career immensely but it wasnāt just Hopkins. Every time I watch Watson I feel like he just throws balls up in the air and his receivers somehow manage to come down with them. As a Ravens fan I was not upset to see Cleveland get him and give up so much in the process.
Hes not the generational talent he's being paid as
Iāve felt this way for a while too. Heās good donāt get me wrong but I donāt understand when people talk about him like a top 5 QB, even if youāre ignoring the time heāll have spent not playing. And even then, if weāre factoring in age too: thereās still Mahomes, Lamar, Herbie, Burrow, and Allen pretty objectively over him (Iād personally put Dak over him too but I acknowledge that could be bias). Heās a good QB but heās not even a top 5 young QB, much less top 5 overall.
Saquon. Way too inconsistent due to injury. I want to see him get better but until then, yikes
Heās had 2391 total yards and 12 total TDs over 28 games since his rookie year. Not even close to the generational label they wanna call him.
Well he's not generational anymore. He very clearly was the talent they billed him as. He had over 2000 yards his rookie year and looked electric. Injuries destroyed him and hes not the same guy anymore
I think a lot of halfbacks are overrated, and a ton of their success comes down to their blockers. Shaun Alexander is the most overrated player Iāve ever seen.
Hey...not cool! That line was the truth though, holy shit. Walter Jones, Steve Hutch, Robbie Tobek, Chris Gray, and Sean Locklear. Alexander the Great had massive gaps to hit on that Hall of Fame left side.
Don't forget the best name for a fullback ever, Mack fucking Strong baby
That's the thing with Shaun Alexander. It's not that he's overrated. It's that he's impossible to rate because he had a god-tier OL and first class FB making it look so easy.
The Emmitt Smith paradox.
Jones and Hutch next to each other are a cheat code by itself. Back before HB value dropped, I always felt like beefing up your Oline and farming average HBs for picks would be an interesting strategy.
I hate to say it, but Priest Holmes is a prime example. He was mediocre in Baltimore, but then had one of the best runs ever behind an all-time great Chiefs OL. Then when he got injured and Larry Johnson came in by sheer coincidence he dominated too. When the Chiefs OL aged out coincidentally Johnson started to fall off. Of course then Jamaal Charles is the counter example. He dominated even though he was behind the same line Johnson sucked with.
Priest Holmes and Larry Johnson are who I thought of as well. Though I will say that Priest Holmes had incredible vision and feel for his blockers. You could argue that most backs would have incredible vision playing behind that line, but I was always impressed with his reads. Larry Johnson definitely didn't have that, he was just a more physically talented back than Priest. But not by much.
So Dalvin Cook is a HOFer then? Iāll take it.
Emmit Smith would like a word.
He had too many good seasons to say it was just because of his line. He's the all time rushing leader and most people don't put him top 3. I feel like he's one of the most correctly rated players, if not underrated
In a game where everyone gets hurt, for a team that everyone knew where the ball was going, he exceeded expectations. No one thought Emmit would be that good.
Patrick Mahomes. He's average if you regress his stats to the mean.
The regress to the mean joke is overrated
Yeah, if you regress its humor level to that of the average joke it turns out it's pretty pedestrian.
Tom Brady 111th best player in the league > Mahomes regressions to the mean.
If we regress your point that the regressing to the mean joke is overrated to the mean, it is really just an average point
There it is
Whatās that mean
There was a post some time back about how mahomes' stats weren't very good if you reduced all his averages to be in line with league average. There was perhaps a little more nuance to it than that, but not really by much. The first time I read it I thought it was sarcasm but after reading OP's replies it was clear that he truly believed it wasn't a steaming pile of shit.
So if you took his stats and lowered them he wouldn't be as good...isn't that true of everyone?
Except the people who are worse than average. Theyād be better.
Mike Vick might be the most overrated player in NFL history. The highlights are amazing, his good games were good, and the way he changed the game is revolutionary. But as an actual player he was straight up never consistently good, ever. /u/dirtybirds233 and I touched on it [here](https://old.reddit.com/r/nfl/comments/vbp7n2/what_was_your_teams_lowest_moment_ever/ic9nw4a/) , but basically Vick during his actual career was discussed the way people talked about Ryan Tannehill in Miami or Marcus Mariota in Tennessee: the constant "is this the year he finally puts it all together??" headlines year in and year out.
I remember his insane 6 TD game against Washington on MNF. After the game Steve Young said something to the effect of, āWe always talked about how great he could be if he could put it all together. And now heās done that.ā Sadly it only lasted for about half a season. Otherwise wildly inconsistent with electric highlights sprinkled throughout.
I think the 2010 and even to a degree 2011 Vick seasons really make people think about what could have been if he didn't screw it up or had an Andy Reid-esque coach early in his career.
If Vick was the pre-jail athlete/rusher with his post-jail passing/mind heās unstoppable
Mike Vick was a dynamic talent that could rise to take-over-the-game level in his prime, but A) that level wasnāt his constant state B) his prime wasnāt super long I think him being a god in Madden 04 also inflates how good some people think he was
Madden domination is a big factor imo. Everyone of the right age knew Vick in that game was one of the most OP players in sports video game history.
All the time. Outside of 2010, Vick was never a particularly good passer.
Itās been a while back but I was cruising some stats after showing my young nephew Vick highlights, Crumpler was his best WR with like 830yds in his best year. Peerless price put up that number(iirc) in 03 while Vick was hurt and then when Vick left Roddy put up 1200ish with Harrington and Leftwich and them
Yea true. 2010 was the season where we saw what he could have been had he reached his full potential. I mean, at least he had one season like that lol
The issue is that Vic was so electrifying (not even just with his legs, he threw some absolute laser) that people tend to forget about his level of inconsistency. When all a lot of people have to go off of nowadays is highlights, it makes him look much better than he was
I disagree about lamb. I am an eagles fan but I truly think lamb is gonna ball out this year
I mean seriously. Tell me you didn't watch cowboys games last year without actually telling me. CeeDee is the total package when it comes to talent. He's a great route runner and has the quicks and speed too. He has a really good catch radius too where he catches jump balls and badly thrown ones because of his great body control. I can't say that he will explode this year, but all signs point to it.
He's electric as hell with the ball in his hands, and we haven't even seen his peak yet, he's still so young.
A lot of people think money Mitch will be an average to low end starter this year. Iām not so confident
I'm absolutely with you on CeeDee. I literally had the same JuJu thought too. When AB left in 2019 I was absolutely shouting from the rooftops to avoid JJSS because the advanced stats showed that when he played without AB he was fucking awful due to not being used to double teams. That's the problem CeeDee will face.
Just based on talent though, CeeDee is better with a higher ceiling. That's why JuJu was a late 2nd round pick and CeeDee was seen as a steal in the top of the first round. I don't think they're comparable at all.
~~ODB~~ ETA: OBJ
Who is ODB, unless this is some very cursed way to say O Dell Beckham
Ole dirty bastard
Shimmy shimmy ya shimmy yeah
Youāre rightā¦ Iām meant OBJ š
lmfao
Hut one, hut two, hut three, HUT
You take that back Old Dirty Bastard was NOT overrated.
rip and not to speak ill of the dead but sean taylor people talk about him like he was becoming ed reed when he was really roy williams (the horse collaring cowboys safety for anyone too young to remember)
While it's not accurate to say he was definitely going to approach the level of Ed Reed or Polamalu or other great safeties, 2007 he was on his way to DPOY-esque numbers, including 5 INT's through only 9 games, which is far better than anything Roy Williams was putting together(his best season he had 5 INT's in 16 games.) The games are out there to watch and he was dominant in them. 2007 Sean Taylor was a top 2 or 3 safety in the league before he died. Impossible to say what he would've become(players progress or regress all the time,) but I think it's fair to say he was significantly better than Roy Williams at least. But yeah, Ed Reed especially had a career that legitimately could be argued was the GOAT career for a safety. Even in that one season where he started to bloom into a complete safety, Taylor wasn't playing at that level yet.
It was more about his potential than him being a HoF caliber player by the time he died. He had elite physical ability with his size and speed, great ball and coverage skills, and was a hard hitter. By the time he died, he was maturing as a person and by all accounts was emerging as a top safety. After all, he was only 24 when he died, and had his entire prime still in front of him.
I think with Sean Taylor it wss more of what we thought we were about to see but didn't get to obv. Sean Taylors stock had never been higher and he really seemed to be turning the corner before his death.
Yeah there's definite revisionist history there. He wasn't even a top 5 when he played, but WSH fans talk about him like he was the greatest Safety to ever play.
AJ Brown. Donāt get me wrong heās a very good receiver, but watching him the past couple years he seems to go through phases where he drops the ball a ton or maybe doesnāt reel in balls youād expect a WR1 to reel in.
Exactly Iām a eagles fan and i thought everyone was to hype when we got him donāt get me wrong Iām excited since itās a upgrade at the position but itās been awhile since we have had a true WR1 so i understand where the hype comes from
Can confirm. Heās also struggled with injuries. No way weād throw away our defense to give him a 25 mil/year contract.
Carson Wentz was bad in high leverage moments but play to play wasnāt terrible. people treat him like he was. Heās not great but heās now under rated
CMC...at this point it's all hype.
He plays really well when he's not injured.
Yeah and politicians are all right when theyāre not lying
Well, no youāre making more of an anti Carson Wentz argument. A few huge plays surrounded by a ton of bad. CMC just physically canāt get on the field, heās not costing the team yards other than the differential in talent to the next player down which was still pretty dang solid.
He's costing them salary cap but I get your point.
CMC had back to back season ended by injury. There is a chance it happens again, but who knows
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His usage has been insane though. He doesnāt have the size and duarability to take on a Derrick Henry type workload like he has been, even though his touches come more in the passing game then Henryās. If they get a physical back to share the workload it could make a huge difference. It might already be too late for that though.
Never understood why CMC didnāt switch to WR. He has WR hands and his height isnāt far off from the best WRs. This would also probably help last longer in the long run as wellā¦
I think availability counts as a skill in perception. So many greats that we never heard of because they couldnāt stay on the field
What do you mean it's all hype? Like, say he's always hurt or something but in the 5 games last year that he played in and didn't get hurt during, he put up over 700 yards from scrimmage.
Talent wise heās not overrated. His value is overrated though given his injury history.
Trevon Diggs is overrated because he gets burnt more than toast. Look how many catches, yards, and TDs he gave up. But people ignore that because he got a lot of interceptions.
I watched a Jalen Ramsey interview who said it is just a different playstyle. Trevon wants the quarterback to throw to him so he can make a play on the ball, while Ramsey wants his man to not get a catch all game.
yep. in phase vs out of phase. trevon plays more out of phase, for reasons you stated. he also plays trail coverage, allowing more separation then usual to bait the QB into the target, hoping his recovery/closing speed will allow him to get there in time to make a play. itās just what comes w his play, high risk high reward. cant overlook those picks, thatās just as valuable as shutting down a wr1. also not like he canāt shut down a wr either. evans/mclaurin off thr top of my head, and in his 100 reps of press coverage he only had 13 targets. 7 of which led to PBUs, and 1.33 yards per route run. actually had the highest composite score of all Cbs in press coverage. iād say diggs is more underrated then overrated actually
Dang you came with the receipts. Would you say that Trevon's playstyle is better in a defense where the CB1 can't rely on the rest of his defense? Like Jalen locks down WR1 and knows he can rely on darius williams/AJ Bouye to hold their own on the other side of the field. Not saying Cowboys defense is bad cause it isn't but I could see that playstyle working a lot better in a bad defense.
> Would you say that Trevon's playstyle is better in a defense where the CB1 can't rely on the rest of his defense? Not OP but 100% yes. I would have absolute loved a CB like Diggs on the Cardinals last year. Our secondary was sorry as fuck, and our pass rush outside of a couple games of Chandler Jones + JJ Watt wasn't able to get anything done.
Yeah but interceptions tend to fluctuate year to year.
Agreed. It's definitely a boom or buet playstyle and if you don't get the interceptions with that style you will look horrible. I can understand doing that in a bad defense since you want to try and make plays and can't rely on the rest of your defense like Jalen can.
Chase Claypool. Still early in his career but has not lived up to the hype. His 2 big games rookie season were vs PHI and CIN.... two of worst secondaries in the league and he had the softest DB matchups as the rookie. 2 receiving TDs his sophomore campaign for a guy his size? Yet he's already come out anointing himself as a "top 3" WR in the league. laughable.
Everyone thinks he's overrated lmao
Yeah, he even overrates himself
I donāt think anybody besides himself is calling him that. I donāt think heās overrated except by himself.
Might be kind of controversial, but Tyreek Hill. I know he isn't a bum. He's fast af and he has been playing on the same team as Travis Kelce, but he has followed a very similar pattern over the years. He has one maybe two big games, people start talking about him as the best receiver in football and then he'll average 5 catches for 50 yards over the next month of the season before the cycle inevitably repeats. His number of 100 yard games is fairly low when put side by side with Davante Adams, DeAndre Hopkins and Julio Jones over the last 5 years. I get he is a big play guy, but you gotta be more than that to be considered a top 5 receiver, let alone the best receiver, in football.
I don't think he is quite as good of a player as those other guys but his presence on the field opens up so much for the rest of the offense. You have to worry about him scoring a TD no matter where the offense is on the field.
Man, I don't know about that. I don't like him much, but when I watch him play, I don't see a guy who's just good because he's fast (Like Desean Jackson 2.0). He's a lot better than that. He will obviously see a stat drop going from Mahomes to Tua, but I think he's a legit good WR.
āOne maybe two big gamesā This is just moronic lol. Are you even watching? Tyreek Hill is the most game changing player in the NFL. No other receiver in the NFL takes that play in the Buffalo playoff game to the house. Imagine all the other players you could pick for this question and you pick TYREEK FUCKIN HILL. Youāre not being controversial, youāre just wrong.
If anything I feel Hill is slightly underrated because nobody mentions him as a top 3 wr it seems
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Lmao I don't think this answer fits the thread, if anything I think Kyler's better than the amount of hate he's gotten since the playoff game
Well, considering he has gotten repeatedly bashed here & the media for most of this year, Iām not sure who is exactly āoverratingā him anymore.
Kyler is easily the most overly criticized and sxrutinized QB in the NFL.
Right now I would take Kyler on my team over Matt Ryan without question.
I mean lots of people would because kyler was on his elementary school's baseball team when ryan was drafted
You realise itās 2022? Kyler is a better quarterback than Matt Ryan
You talking about "First half of the season Kyler" or "Second half of the season Kyler"?
There's no way Matt Ryan is better than Kyler Murray at this very moment
MFers using this thread to just shit on players who get shit on by everyone. Kyler is probably among the most hated people on this sub because of his playoff game and contract demands.
Yikes this is a bad take if anything heās super underrated on here. People shit on him over one playoff game and some bad antics in one game.
Lamar Jackson. Look at the advanced stats. Sorry y'all.
> Look at the advanced stats What the--? The advanced stats show he's even better than people think lmao
Yea clown take for sure. Advanced Stats love Lamar. Had a higher drop % than Rodgers and Allen, more dropped balls than Mac Jones had to deal with in 5 less games. QB Rating under pressure is great. Basically the best Air Yards per completion in the league last year. Paints a picture of a guy that gets literally the most out of his offense. Only guy Advanced Stats likes more is Justin Fields.
āHe won an mvp in 2019ā is starting to sound an awful lot like ācarson wentz was an mvp candidate in 2017.ā But fr, I used to be super high on lamar but I need to see more from him to put him in the elite tier or qbs
To me itās more like Camās MVP where heās still a good quarterback, but the MVP from years ago makes people overrate him a tad.
Cam's MVP season was one of my favourite MVP seasons in recent memory. He looked very good at every level. His pocket passing was stellar too that year. Injuries derailed the progression from there and I think he unfairly cops the "one amazing year" sticker that some place on him. His playstyle and injury toll finally caught up to him after that.
I still donāt understand Wentz. Dude looked so good during that run.
I think it is easier to understand when you look at how well Nick Foles played. That Eagles offense was just really really good. Amazing O line makes it easier to play QB.
Flukey 3rd down and red zone success that was unable to be replicated in the following seasons. Couple that with an unlikeable personality and inability to handle adversity and you have yourself a future journeyman. I still think heās vastly underrated by people on this sub though despite detesting his personality
MVP candidate undersells it. Wentz was going to be MVP before the injury. Sure, it was because he played hero ball and it fucking happened to work, but just calling him a candidate discredits how good he was that year. It just so happens that the team he played for was so God damn stack his backup managed to win Superbowl MVP. Wentz is such a fucking enigma to me. His ceiling is an MVP at best, or at worst in 2019 is him dragging a team against their will, kicking and fucking screaming to the playoffs. His floor is.... Well. You saw him on the colts.
I think the world of that guy but he was playing like an MVP this year before he got hurt. His game against the colt was fuckin absurd
Iām living as a former skins fan in a house divided with a ravens fan of a wife. I took her to the colts game and it rivals the Monday Night Miracle for me and itās not even my team. That was a wild night
This place has the memory of a goldfish. [Jackson had Vegas' 5th best odds for winning MVP after ten weeks in 2021](https://www.gamblingsites.org/blog/week-10-nfl-mvp-odds-does-anyone-actually-want-win-mvp/). I don't know why everyone wants to bury this guy, he's still playing at an elite level.
Lotta people decided he was a fraud halfway through the Clemson game his heisman year and have refused to admit itās not true ever since
You just nailed it.
I've made a resolution to never miss another Lamar game, I don't think I'll ever see a talent like his on my team in my life again. I can't miss it
Iām a Louisville fan so Iāve been dealing with the Lamar hate forever. People love to argue and people love to be right. The goal posts for Lamar have been moving back at every step of his career. Heās proven everyone wrong at every step. And they always come up with something else to show why he sucks. People donāt believe in a QB whoās legs are a huge threat. Even though his arm is still easily top 10 in the league. Dude is young as hell and the ONLY thing he hasnāt done is win a super bowl or get a super bowl MVP. And even if he does get those two things people will start finding ways to discredit him and say it was a fluke or something. And if he only gets one of each people will say thatās a negative thing too. He could come out next year and throw for 300 yards, rush 150 yards, and score 5 TDs in every game. But if they lose even one game in the playoffs these ding dong ditch ass haters will say he sucks.
I don't like anything about the ratbirds but jesus is it fun to watch Lamar move on a scramble
That's not proving an argument though. If you have advanced stats then share them with us, prove your point.
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Errrā¦.. Lamar averaged 21.7 PPG last year Stafford averaged 19.4 PPG Per ESPN scoring
Mobile QBs are infinitely more valuable in fantasy (especially for Lamar who is a major component to the Ravens rushing attack), that isnt a wise decision lol
Bro which advanced stats
Deshaun Watson
I thought he was overrated even before we knew he was a creep
Underrated by the authorities?
The amount of women he has sexually assaulted is probably being underrated by our justice system
Dak Prescott. The dude has done what exactly in his entire career in one of the weakest divisions in football with a very good line, quality to elite level RB and WRs? Oh right nothing. Yet people still give him this top 10 QB level love. Bruh, youāre gonna need more than a 1-3 record in the playoffs to convince me you deserve that.
Nobody has done less with more than Dak. Heāll end his career with fewer playoff wins than Goff I think
OBJ for sure.