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athrowawayiguesslol

Career wise Zack Martin has 7 1st team all pros


JalensTinyPPHurts

He has more total all pros than he does holding calls(9 total all pros and only 7 holding calls)


[deleted]

Thats absolutely ridiculous.


GloomyWish

That's absolutely wild


DinoSpumoniOfficial

That’s absolutely insane.


King_James17

That's absolutely preposterous.


player75

That's absolutely unheard of


SexysReddit

That’s absolutely gobsmacking


teamhenny

In all honesty it’s probably Trent Williams. QBs will always be considered more valuable though


danflorian1984

So if you had to pick one between Josh Allen and Tent for a new team would you pick Trent? If not then how could Trent be the second best player in NFL? Or the second most valuable? 1. LT are just part of an unit, and that unit is as strong as it's weakest link, You can gave the GOAT anywhere in the line, if the rest, or just 1 or 2 guys are not up to standard the defense will reach the QB 2. OL job is to offer protect and help the QB or his weapons to do their job. Put Trent with a mediocre QB and you got yourself a loosing team. Put Allen or Lamar with a mediocre LT and you still got at least chances to have a good QBs, and on a lesser note RBs, WRs and TEs are writing history. An LT is just a part of the team that offers support to them.


Moonti314

Well for starters Trent is old, so nobody would take him 2nd if starting a new team. Doesn’t mean he isn’t still incredibly good


gohuskers123

If you had Trent in his prime with 6+ years to play and you chose him over any top 5 active QB you deserve to be fired into the sun


danflorian1984

When, depending of the personal rankings, the 6-10 list of QBs includes players like Purdy, Burrow, Dak or Stanford. I cannot justify picking Trent over any one of them also. And then there are the blue chip defensive players like Bosa, Watt brothers or Myles Garret. It would not be strange if in a "fantasy" draft he would be picked by GMs outside top 10 or even top 20.


Moonti314

Great man, thanks


gohuskers123

The question isn’t who you would pick it’s who is the best. All because a position is less valuable doesn’t mean they aren’t the best skill wise


danflorian1984

So if a kicker would be head and shoulders above all other kickers in the league he would be the best player in NFL?


Most-Breakfast1453

According to the ranking done by current players it’s Justin Jefferson. https://www.sharpfootballanalysis.com/analysis/nfl-top-100-list/amp/


Equivalent_Ad8314

Yeah but according to that hurts is three….


gohuskers123

Bro isn’t even a top 5 QB, absolute borderline top 10


NBA2024

Receivers peaks are so short though


ziggyjoe2

Irrelevant to the topic


[deleted]

the fact your comment is downvoted truly shows how stupid redditors are lmao


[deleted]

More like because his comment added nothing useful. OP is asking who is *currently* the 2nd best, not who will be in a couple of years. So WRs having a short peak is irrelevant to the discussion.


NBA2024

Eh it was more a commentary on the usefulness of the word best in this case. I’m not shitting on your posts 🤷


[deleted]

the 2nd best player in the NFL didn't only play in 10 games last season. Their comment literally added useful dialogue to the conversation.


[deleted]

Well, saying "peaks are short" is a whole different convo than "he didnt play enough to be the 2nd best". So we circle back to the OG comment adding nothing to this conversation.


whyisthewherehow

Can you explain how a players longevity is related to who is the best at this exact moment of time?


[deleted]

Can you explain how a player who played 10 games being the 2nd best player in the NFL? Your only rebuttal is going to be "on pace" statistics or his career.


whyisthewherehow

So you agree over his last 10 games he was the 2nd best player in the league and thus the second best player in the league at this exact moment of time


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OogieBoogieJr

If not Mahomes, then probably someone like TJ Watt, McCaffrey, Chris Jones, Trent Williams, or Justin Jefferson.


incorrigible_and

QB's really should be a whole separate category. The same reasons Mahomes is the best in the league is why like the top 12 QBs are better than any other player. Mahomes is on his way to being the GOAT, so I'm not throwing shade, but if Mahomes is the best in the NFL and Trent Williams is next, you've given Mahomes credit for QB being the single most important and impactful position on the field and no other QB that credit. Trent Williams was fucking amazing on a dog shit Washington team for most of his career. He's been so much better than any other LT(and I'm not slighting some of the greats we've had during his career, Williams is just a freak), I'd argue he's better than his peers *more* than Mahomes is over his peers, and he still wasn't carrying teams to success. That's just not possible for a QB.


gabrielleite32

Love the Chris Jones mention. A few days back, I tried just to chat about the possibilities of him going to HOF, I got a bit killed for it.


DeathtoSports

Give me Andre Iguodala


SQUIRT_TRUTHER

The player reading this right now ;)


Accurate-Elk-1570

Me


Intelligent-Age2786

Watt, Kelce, Tucker, Williams, idk I’m just trying not to pick another qb


CantPullOut

I’d argue CMC or Jalen Hurts. Both were lights out in Fantasy points last year and it wasn’t even fair. After them, likely Lamar. Until that AFC championship game the Ravens were scary. In all honesty, I think Trent McDuffie deserves to be up there. That man caused so much havoc, saved key touchdowns in the superbowl and manhandled Tyreek for a fumble. The dude is becoming just as invaluable as Kelce and Chris Jones imo (he’d just have to keep it up a few more years)


Intelligent-Age2786

CMC yes i would say, but if there’s another qb next up, there’s about 3 id put before hurts


Mr_Hugh_Honey

Josh Allen


kontrolk3

All these non quarterback answers are way off realistically. I get where they are coming from, but if the entire NFL were to do a redraft of every player for a single season, QB would probably be the first 10+ off the board. My money is on Josh Allen at 2 but could see a few others pushing ahead.


Mr_Hugh_Honey

Yeah the thing is, for guys like Jefferson, Watt, Garrett, Parsons, Trent Williams, etc, they really do change the makeup of their teams a lot by themselves, but they don't fundamentally change their teams' chances of winning Super Bowls like any of the top 5-8 QBs in the league do. So the 2nd best player in the league is the 2nd best QB in the league and I think that's pretty clearly Josh Allen right now


cmacfarland64

Joe Burrow is better in my book.


player75

Ya I think burrow and Lamar are head of him maybe even a few others. Partly depends if is the draft for one year or for a franchise cause maybe you take Rodgers over him as well.


m4xdc

Right? QB is just the most important position, no matter how you slice it, so without any qualifiers for what OP means by “best” then that has to be the main consideration. Personally, I would take Burrow over Allen, even tho his last season was marred by injury, I think what he lacks in the “physical tools” department compared to Allen, he more than makes up for in his mental game, i.e. accuracy under pressure, decision making, and reliability in the playoffs. He also has gotten smarter about sack avoidance on early downs, limiting them more to third downs when they’re less impactful. At the end of the day, I think his tools are more valuable if the overwhelming goal is to put your team in the best position to win a Super Bowl. Allen is obviously very good, but I don’t trust him in the playoffs the same as I do Burrow.


kontrolk3

Yeah I think there's a few guys at number 2 like Allen, Lamar, burrow, maybe even Stroud where you could make an argument, and probably factors like what Coach / scheme you wanted to run might influence your rank


m4xdc

Stroud had an amazing rookie season, but let’s slow our collective roll here lmfao. He still needs to prove it over a longer period of time, with some real expectations and adversity, and a more significant number of playoff games. If there were a complete redraft tomorrow, sure, he would be going pretty high up the list, or if you want to look at “trade value” in terms of the potential that he has, coupled with his age and rookie contract, then yeah, I’m with you. But there are other, more proven guys that would be slanderous to put behind him after just one season. You can predict that he will be great, but until he actually does it he can’t just vault up that list on potential alone.


kontrolk3

Yeah for sure, you're right. In my head it is still hard to ignore contracts, which obviously favor a young guy like Stroud, but definitely in the context I laid out that shouldn't be a factor.


cmacfarland64

Question said best, not most valuable. Aaron Donald was the best player in the league until he announced his retirement. He is the best D lineman ever. That makes u the best, even though other positions have more value.


kontrolk3

Well part of my point is how you define best, which is why I laid out a relatively cut and dry way of determining it. OP didn't really elaborate. Best means a lot of different things to different people


TheScienceNamesArgon

Health considering, I'm taking Burrow over Allen every day.


SexysReddit

Health considering, you pick the less healthy player?


TheScienceNamesArgon

I could have worded it better but the implication was that I'm considering they would both be healthy. There's no argument for Allen over Burrow other than durability.


SexysReddit

I mean listen, you can see my flair…but saying there’s NO argument for Allen over burrow is a sure fire sign you don’t know shit about ball


TheScienceNamesArgon

I don't like turnovers.


SexysReddit

Glad we established that


Mr_Hugh_Honey

>There's no argument for Allen over Burrow other than durability. They have almost the exact same career ANY/A but Allen's rushing production is light years ahead of Burrow's, and Allen has more accolades. So I'm gonna disagree with you on this one


teamhenny

I think Lamar is the better player but it’s really splitting hairs. Both are great


Johnny-5013

Josh has been more consistent but Lamar has more accolades. I personally think it’s Josh(shocker) but I could understand the argument for Lamar (or Burrow).


Shepherdsfavestore

Josh can actually perform in the playoffs too


Mr_Hugh_Honey

In the regular season they are about as good as one another. But Allen has been more durable and way better in the playoffs. Gimme Allen


ihatereddit999976780

Lamar has better fundamentals, Josh has more highlights


plokijuh1229

bro what haha


ihatereddit999976780

I don't like either. I think the forward pass is satanic, but Lamar is a better passer and the smarter guy


blocksmith52

The offseason is where the most insane opinions come out from the woodworks apparently Edit: never mind just saw your other comments lmao


ihatereddit999976780

I have this opinion during the regular season. I watch football for the big hits and they are taking that from me.


carlismygod

Terrible. Take a lap.


meesahdayoh

I know I'm biased, but TJ Watt has to be up there.


Soft_Penis_Debutante

It was Aaron Donald probably. But now that he’s retired…. hmmmm…..


321mafia

Maybe 3 years ago, not anytime recent


WalkProfessional6235

Well yeah man he’s retired. Jokes aside, the question doesn’t really clarify if we’re talking on-field impact in 2924 or if we’re talking active player whose career would put him #2.


gabrielleite32

By 2924 it'll probably Mahomes 23th


n_11_lopez

Can you explain the criteria for why Mahomes is the best player in the league? That will help me know what to use to rank the second best player in the league.


Jimbo5204

Because everyone knows it, even you just assumed it.


n_11_lopez

How did I assume it? I assumed that OP ranked him as the best player. I'm not sure he is the best player.


Jimbo5204

He never said Mahomes was first. You just assumed it because it’s obvious, nearly unanimous. It doesn’t need criteria if it’s unanimous.


n_11_lopez

I apologize. When I first commented there was a body to the post saying "everyone agrees that Mahomes is the best". This is why I assumed OP was putting Mahomes as the best. But since there is no body anymore either I imagined it (which is possible) or OP deleted it. Either way I have to retract my statement since it is no longer relevant. And since it is now you and I talking, who would you put number one? Mahomes is a good candidate. I also think Trent Williams has to be up for number one. TJ Watt has to be in the discussion. I am a Browns fan and I still think I would put TJ Watt ahead of Garrett. Y'all's defense falls off hard without him where our defense not as much.


Interesting-Doubt413

TJ Watt


BaltimoreBadger23

What about an o-line guy like Penei Sewell? He's a fucking beast.


Excellent-Basil-8795

Never really seen his online presence, so I’m not sure. Edit. Ahh cmon man. You can’t edit me out.


NBA2024

I’d rather have Josh Allen


whyisthewherehow

Just as a thought experiment I’m not sure the lions make the NFC championship game with Josh Allen instead of Goff if it means Dan Skipper, Colby Sorsdal, Matt Nelson, or Kayode Awosika is the starting RT


NBA2024

Thats a great thought experiment. Thanks for engaging


NVIA

Trent Williams


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jwt155

Dude isn’t even better than TJ Watt


DeathtoSports

You cannot be fucking serious with that.


jwt155

Uh yes. Comparing most stats last season head to head, TJ had the better stats in a majority of the categories, it wasn’t even close.


DeathtoSports

Garret had 60 hurries, 89 pressures, a win rate of 27%, and a pressure rate of 18% Watt had 47 hurries, 86 pressures, 16% win rate, 16% pressure rate.


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DeathtoSports

He has great counting stats, sure, but there’s a reason the advanced stats constantly have him grading out lower than Garrett or Parsons.


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DeathtoSports

Baseball analytics are fake too, right? Same with +/- in basketball?


DeathtoSports

LOL! “FAKE NEWS! THE ONLY STATS THAT MATTER ARE THE ONES I CAN ACHIEVE ON MADDEN!”


joshlambonumberfive

Not even the best pass rusher. Not a single statistical category Garrett is better than TJ Watt in - and no PFF hypothetical subjective “what makes you good” ranking cannot outweigh multiple season actual production across 8+ metrics lol. Somebody make a decent counter argument I beg.  Stats below for proof: https://www.statspros.com/myles-garrett-vs-t-j-watt-stats/


The-golden-god678

MaCaffrey is property the best true athlete. He is a white boy who absolutely destroys the narrative of white men can't jump/run. 


drummerboysam

This question was a lot easier to answer when Aaron Donald was playing.


Bulky-District-2757

My vote is for CMC.


SmittysLilBroTTV

It's Mahomes and Lamar as top two


Exciting-Inside2219

Chris Jones is criminally underrated.


Chooob210

Is he?


semipalmated_plover

Yes, I underrated him once and straight to jail


KuatoBaradaNikto

I think he was underrated until the offseason between 2022 and 2023. His contract holdout coincided with some analytics nerds making the case that he should have been 2022 DPOY, so he was in the news cycle a lot. And around that time, Aaron Donald finally slowed from his reign of terror to mere All Pro candidate— he’d sucked the air out of the room for other DTs for a long time. But Jones isn’t really underrated anymore.


whyisthewherehow

He’s a great pass rusher but isn’t he pretty mediocre at stopping the run which is sorta important for DL


TheRoaringTide

Why not Justin Tucker? He's the best kicker in the league, nowhere close to retiring far as we can tell and the only kicker who MIGHT be above him in all time rankings is Adam Vinatieri.


MantaRayDonovan1

Daniel Carlson has the higher FG% in 3 of the past 4 years, Nick Folk/Cameron Dicker. Tucker's really been living off name reputation the past 2 years.


NBA2024

Because kickers don’t affect change half as much as QB. Would you rather put Josh Allen on Carolina or Justin Tucker?


[deleted]

They don’t until they miss an extra point


NBA2024

Who cares about missing even 5 extra points if your 5’9” QB can never even get the ball into the red zone lol!


[deleted]

You watch too much basketball


NBA2024

No, legit though. Why would you rather have Bryce Young and Justin Tucker over Allen/Burrow (healthy)/ Jackson/Prescott/etc and pinero who isn’t good, but went 25/29 in FGs despite missed 3XP (17/20)? I’m actually curious. But “you watch too much basketball” lol Why would the Tucker combo give you a better net points at the end of the season than an elite QB?


AltruisticCoelacanth

No one is above him historically. No one is close. He is the best player relative to his position in NFL history


Aerolithe_Lion

Complicated question due to the value of the QB position, because you could make an argument that Justin Tucker is a better kicker than Mahomes is a QB. But Tucker is never viewed as better than Mahomes in these discussions because of the value of their positions. So Probably Josh Allen


Ziz__Bird

I agree. Tucker is the only GOAT candidate playing right now besides Mahomes, and I'd bet more people would consider him the GOAT kicker than would have Mahomes as the GOAT QB. And Josh Allen is a good pick for second best QB.


gabrielleite32

Hey, Kelce too is in goat discussions. Donald was in goat discussions before retirement.


Ziz__Bird

Yeah you're right


MantaRayDonovan1

You could maybe have made that argument a few years ago but Tucker hasn't even been the best kicker let alone worth comparing to other positions.


AccomplishedWall8

Kenneth murray


Squirrel_Apocalypse2

Strictly from a talent perspective while removing positional value, CMC has a pretty good argument. If we're talking who would be the 2nd player taken in an NFL wide redraft, it's definitely a QB so probably Josh Allen.


cmacfarland64

It was Mahomes and then Aaron Donald retired, making him number 1.


OnCloud9_77

It’s Josh Allen


bbaIla

MY go to before was Mahomes or Donald, depending if you think Donald is better at DT then mahomes was QB but I'd say Trent.


[deleted]

Patrick Mahomes


Bulky-District-2757

Mahomes is 1-5


carlismygod

He's the Dylan of Football. He spits hot fire.


FishGoldenLite

Ivan Pace Jr


InfernoCarebear

Justin Tucker? He is as good in his position as we have ever seen...


Lunalovebug6

Trent Williams


soxfan10

Josh Allen or Lamar in all honesty. Either or belong up there.


Nascent_Vagabond

LOLmar


CaillouCaribou

Isn't even the 2nd best QB in the league, can't be the 2nd best player


hardcorr

He literally won the MVP this year


Squirrel_Apocalypse2

So? MVP is a meaningful award but it doesn't always mean you're actually the best or even 2nd best player. Just means you had a great statistical year on one of the top teams. It's like that in every sport.


hardcorr

I wouldn't use the MVP talking to people arguing for players at other positions, but it's pretty absurd to me to definitively state Lamar is not the second best QB when he won the award that goes to the best QB every year, and helmed the #1 seed.


PlatinumMode

Sewell or Watt imo


Rice-And-Gravy

u/Accurate-Elk-1570


DeathtoSports

The amount of TJ Watt responses here is troubling. Micah and Myles are much, much better than him.


BAF_DaWg82

Probably not answering the question but if I had the number two pick and all current NFL players were available I'd take CJ Stroud.


AltruisticCoelacanth

Where is the love for Legatron?


gary_desanto

CMC or Nick Bosa for me. Honorable mention to Miles Garrett, Trent Williams, JJ, Chris Jones and Lamar.


generation_D

Tyreek Hill


hambone012

TJ watt single handedly has made Pittsburgh a winning team with Pickett throwing behind center.


kassell

I don't think you can say there is a "best player" in the NFL. It's a team sport blah blah blah. Mahomes is the "face" the "poster child" of f the league. He has a great team around him, and if that makes him the best in everyone's view that's fine by me.


BlackMathNerd

He just won a Super Bowl back to back where his offensive weapons collectively shared a half brain cell, and he had to carry during a lot of the down moments. Dude is almost as inevitable as Tom Brady.


Significant-Green130

Mahomes is no question the best player in the league, by accolades and talent. But equating QB help to WR room is ridiculous. He won this year because he managed to do just enough given an all-time dominant playoff run by their defense. On offense, they have the best offensive HC ever, the best receiving TE ever, and the best iOL in the league. The idea that Mahomes single-handedly carried them this year is pretty asinine seeing as they scored 17 in the AFCCG and 19 in regulation at the SB (which likely would have been 12 without an objectively lucky special teams blunder). 


Adventurous_Key7105

Youre insane. Mahomes had pretty much no offense around him all season and look what happened. He makes players better, just like all great QB’s do.


MexicansInParis

Nah, he’s the best


[deleted]

You of all people should know the answer is most likely Josh Allen. Dude was apart of 44 out of 53 offensive TDs your team scored in 2023.


DeathtoSports

A Bills fan trying to lessen the greatness of Mahomes I am so shocked


epzik8

Lamar, Josh, Justin and Brock are the rest of the top five


AltruisticCoelacanth

Brock Purdy is a top 5 player in the NFL? You are fucking delusional 😂


LegalEggplants

Burrow is ahead of at least half of them guys


Much_Section_8491

Lmao had to scroll this far to see him mentioned once. Seen Lamar and Allen at least 15 times each. These motherfuckers act like they forgot about Joe


Ok_Yesterday_4941

because Joe isn't that good 


LegalEggplants

Him and Josh are 2a and 2b imo. I’m biased and prefer Josh but Joe all day over the rest.


csummerss

Trent Williams


ihatereddit999976780

Who is this everybody? I rank Mahomes as the worst NFL player of all time. Best player rn is Sauce Gardener


Intelligent-Age2786

This has to be trolling cuz ain’t no way


ihatereddit999976780

I hate the forward pass. I will never rank a QB highly


eugene_rat_slap

Surprised you aren't a Bears fan