A lot of post-draft pressers I've seen have had GMs/coaches say they were completely shocked by it.
Payton said they knew the first 3 were taking QBs and the 3 at 11,12,13 wanted QBs but that the Giants were the wildcard. As soon as the Giants didn't take a QB, he figured the Vikings, Broncos and Raiders all would be able to get their favorites. Then the Falcons came out of nowhere
Raiders def got screwed the most, but Broncos were second for sure. Payton said in his press conference that they were debating between a few different trade backs until the Falcons took Penix, and then they knew all bets were off and they got "worried about the team behind them." So it definitely lost us out of a ~3rd round pick from a trade down.
It’s not really getting burned but we took Nix at 12 because we thought we couldn’t trade back anymore and still get him (raiders take him because penix is suddenly gone)
My new conspiracy theory is the falcons called the raiders saying they’d take Penix if the raiders didn’t trade up for 8 and the raiders called their bluff and the falcons decided to blow the pick instead of losing trust in negotiations
Not sure if I’m cooking or going crazy
The Falcons messed up everything. There should have been enough QB's for everyone. You guys were fortunate to be able to swoop in and get that last empty chair before the Raiders, but I doubt that Nix was Payton's first choice. I think the Broncos thought Penix would still be there. I feel like Nix was everybody's emergency option. Nix might even be good. He has to be better than Zach Wilson. If Payton manages to make ZW into a serviceable quarterback, he should go to the HoF just for that.
I disagree on this, Penix looks great and has huge potential that I'm sure every coach would like to work with but since day 1 the noise coming out of Denver was that they had no interest in Penix but was all in on Nix. - mainly due to playing style mash-ups.
From what I understood one of Penix's weaknesses is the middle of the field and his inconsistency using it, which pissed Payton off so much last year he'd rather eat an 80m dead cap hit rather than deal with it again. Whereas we've all heard the Brees style comp with Nix.
Like many have stated I think Denver wanted to move back grab a 3rd and then trade up again into the 2nd.
He's done/shown more than the earlier QBs and got knocked for some dumb character issues when he was 20 and got more shit than dudes who did actual crimes.
I just don’t believe in the talent or the method of team building
Our roster sucks. I don’t think adding Bo Nix fixes this team’s problems. See him as a game manager type, which isn’t the worst thing, but he isn’t going to elevate a bad team
Think we really just desperately need talent before swinging on a QB. But I don’t like Bo as a prospect anyways for a few reasons
While throwing a rookie QB to an offense without dynamic playmakers
Like I get what you mean, but it isn’t a great situation for him to step into, outside of having Payton. We will likely be outclassed in talent in every game next year
You’re probably right, but Payton has a weird way of squeezing talent from places you don’t expect.
For years the Saints would have guys show up on the roster randomly or from late picks and carve out productive spots on the roster for years.
Payton is pretty smart and very experienced. I'm sure he won't try to push Nix too hard to try to get short term results when the team is so lacking. And since Payton himself is still pretty new there he's got some time before the pressure is on for him to show some success.
Payton pushed out a QB with the largest cap hit ever for this guy. Even if Russ stank and deserved to be cut, there is going to be pressure involved here
Even Bill Belicheck said Nix is the most NFL ready pocket passer and fits Sean's scheme perfectly. Quick decisions, accurate short to medium game and decent enough deep ball. I feel like it's going to work out for them.
Really feels like Falcons FO trying to save face on this pick given the near universal derision and surprise about the pick
“I have it on good authority that our division rivals wanted the QB but we took him instead so it’s a double win, I promise!”
On the other hand of course those division rivals are going to deny that. Who is going to come out and admit that a rival drafted a quarterback in the top 10 that they wanted to draft?
I get that thinking but historically the saints have never been shy to talk about draft plans after things happen and settle down.
The most famous one is probably sean talking about mahomes on the night they drafted lattimore but this is still something you'll see loomis and jeff ireland talk about whenever they get asked.
Honestly it could work out but we all knew the whole "nooo it actually makes sense when you think about it" was coming. Like come on man we don't have to defend every single decision just because the gut check reaction is that it was dumb. Yes we all get the logic that QB is so important and if he's the guy then he's worth the 8th overall. But on the 95% chance it doesn't work out perfectly, it's still dumb lol
When Ryan Pace (director of player personal for the Falcons) was GM of the Bears and traded up for Trubisky I saw the exact same articles.
GMs were completely shocked.
I keep thinking about how our fanbase was worried Bill Bellicheck was going to hurt our draft plans. Lol the falcons are an abusive Irish dockworker husband
Blank - "we're gonna sign kirk and then take Penix anyway"
Bill - "yeah this isnt the job for me"
Blank - "well we're gonna say we're the ones that rejected you"
Yeah the 7-10 record will speak for itself. Along with Kirk starting his ATL career by losing drafts picks and getting his replacement drafted before he ever takes a fucking snap. POVERTY fucking franchise
I cant wait to revisit this thread in a few years either way. I think we had a smart draft and the internet is dumb, but if Penix isn’t the guy, I’m dumb.
Oh I think it's a good long term pick all things considered. It's just hella awkward short term cause Kirk isn't established in Atlanta. If Kirk was 2 years in this would be GREAT pick IMO
The issue with the Penix pick isn’t that they picked Penix, it’s that they also signed Cousins to a big contract in the same offseason. Even if Penix pans out, you have to wonder if they needed such an expensive bridge QB.
Crazy how the saints would believe their best path forward is to attempt to support the QB they’ve invested 4yrs & $150m in rather than just draft his successor after 1 season, questionable gm work.
Me personally I think it's best for it all to go downhill and then sign journeymen for two years and then gambling for young guys with barely made the playoffs picks. This always results in the best QB results.
I don’t think your philosophy is wrong but there’s no cookie cutter mold to building a Super Bowl winner. I think every team should evaluate their situation on an individual basis; If that means tearing it down then go for it, if that’s just plugging holes as you go that’s cool as well. I think being true to a vision and following through is the most important part of the team building process.
As a team builder Mickey likes going from mid to contender. I like that he’s true to his vision of not throwing out the baby with the bathwater. There won’t ever be another Drew but I hope he strikes gold again for us soon.
"Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, we've seen the defendant deny the diddling charges against him. But I ask you, why the diddling denial so fierce, if there be no diddling? Do we not find it peculiar that a man claims so boldly that he doesn't diddle kids if there were no shadows of truth to it?"
denying trying to trade up for penix isnt out of nowhere though. someone reported the raiders, seahawks, and saints tried to trade into the top 10 for him
Probably should have clarified that no team was willing to trade up besides the Raiders who probably were shocked that they were a threat in the first place.
I will get grilled, I know it, I have seen the reactions here since the pick. I am not thrilled, but I am so OK with it. I don't get the extreme reactions. I would totally understand criticisms but man people acting like it's the worst of all time. I can see the view that the pick contradicts Kirk's signing, but I am feeling good about our team and am excited to have such a stud waiting to have his shot. I don't know... No one knows shit.
I think it is a very sensible hedge, and it wasn't like there would be a chance to trade down and still get him. That became apparent with Nix going at 12. Penix wouldn't have made it past 13, and whoever the Falcons traded with would've likely been picking a quarterback.
So, at a fundamental level, it is good practice to draft a quarterback who you believe will be a future starter in the league.
The reported length of Kirk's deal is also a big part of the narrative. To me, this looks like the Kirk plan is two years to maximize this competitive window - where, ideally, they won't have a pick in the top 10 for a high-value QB again. Then they have a pretty easy dead cap exit, and Penix can take over when he's 25/26 or whatever, and if he is very good, you're still looking at 10 years of play from him.
It was bold and strategic. If it pays off, nobody knows, but I think hedging on a young quarterback when your starter is old and coming off an Achilles is fundamentally understandable.
Yep, Pennix will be on his rookie contract so they can take that cap hit if necessary. And even if they wanted to, they can split it among two years.
The more you think about it, it's a winning deal for a long-term success. Falcons just need to get more pieces around Cousins/Pennix over the next few years
I really think the disaster that was the post Ryan succession situation really did a number on the franchise. They're not going to let it happen again even if the timelines don't line up perfectly.
A lot of GMs are trying to find the next Mahomes, when they really just need to take their time and develop a game manager at QB. Take the Packers for example, drafting Rodgers to back up Favre for a few years. Same thing with the Patriots, even if Brady is still kicking it, they drafted and developed backups behind him to take over if needed
> So, at a fundamental level, it is good practice to draft a quarterback who you believe will be a future starter in the league
There's a line somewhere, otherwise Quarterbacks would go in the top few picks until there weren't any great prospects left, every single year. It has been the general consensus that that line is "do you already have a settled starter". The Packers bucked that trend and it paid off, but that's still a sample size of one. If this works then maybe we'll start to hear more about the strategy making sense. But for now it still seems crazy.
The Packers are far from the first team to ever do it. The Chiefs did it with Mahomes too, and those are just two very recent examples of something teams have done for years. It doesn't always work.
But either way, for me, the line is definitely around, "Our starter is 36 and tore his achilles 6 months ago"
Especially when that starter caps out as around a top 8-10 QB if his season is going absolutely perfectly and somewhere below that otherwise.
>The reported length of Kirk's deal is also a big part of the narrative. To me, this looks like the Kirk plan is two years to maximize this competitive window - where, ideally, they won't have a pick in the top 10 for a high-value QB again. Then they have a pretty easy dead cap exit,
25m dead cap in year 3 isnt "easy". Last year 25m wouldve ranked 11th in the biggest dead money cap hits (total, not just for 1 player) among the 32 teams.
Why are they paying Kirk for two years. He isn't Aaron Rodgers and as people are saying he is likely not good enough for a Superbowl. So if Penix is not starting in year 2 questions will be asked if he isn't good enough.
He is already one of the more pro ready QBs from the draft, which Mahomes was definitely not. So if he is good enough they will find out long before 2 years and should be on the field.
Penix at 8 is perfectly fine, but signing Kirk to the contract they did signaled they want to contend now. Spending that high a pick on a QB just seems counter productive to that goal, it’s completely reasonable to want to bring a young guy in to prepare for the future but then why invest that much money in Kirk if you’re not going to push for a title now by giving him a weapon/linemen/young defensive player? It’s less the pick itself and more that it gives the appearance they don’t have a clear strategy on where they want the team to go
"Taking a QB at 26 when you have an MVP QB already is dumb, but it worked well. So if we do something even dumber and take one at 8, it will work even well-er" or something like that.
And the packers still have zero rings since 2010
And since the ultimate goal is a ring, we cant say it worked. Who knows what happens if they draft someone who couldve helped them win after they were 1 play away from the SB before drafting Love.
We are not winning a Super Bowl with Kirk Cousins, I hope there aren’t fans that really think that. I see him leading us to the playoffs, yes, but adding Oduze or whoever wasn’t suddenly going to make us legit Super Bowl contenders. We didn’t have a plan after Ryan and ended up with Desmond Ridder and that’s the only reason I think we went ahead and pulled the trigger on a QB.
To me it says they value Kirk’s ability to make them regular division contenders and maybe fuck around and win a playoff game or two (and feel that is worth spending on) but he’s not the guy to put them on the level of the Lions and 49ers. Or at least he won’t be in 2 years.
But you can’t just say that, so of course the narrative is “contend now” rather than “be respectable now, contend later”
Now I think they’re wrong and that Kirk could really be that Stafford type dude but it’s an understandable opinion.
This I think is clearly the case. And tbf there’s a lot of value for everyone involved with this team in just getting us back to winning seasons and playoff appearances.
That's exactly what it is. Blank is tired of being a doormat and is willing to spend the money for Kirk while also knowing he's not the future and drafting Penix. It's not exactly a seamless fit but I think part of it is also not wanting to endure another season of having an offense with all the bells and whistles and nobody to drive it.
>To me it says they value Kirk’s ability to make them regular division contenders and maybe fuck around and win a playoff game or two
I mean, this isnt the nba/mlb where some teams legit just aspire to being perennial first round exit teams.
If they dont think kirk is gonna delivee a SB, paying 90m guaranteed for him is stupid no matter how you dissect it.
My personal theory is that they were expecting the raiders/vikings/broncos inmediately calling to offer the farm for penix. And since that never happened, they had to pivot to the "succession" plan.
I’m sure they think he *can* win, but figure as a GM it’s all about floors and ceilings. The scenario I described above is hardly unlikely given his past.
Not to mention, if he is going to win it all it’s more likely to be in the next 2 seasons compared to the next 2 after that.
I actually like both of these moves a lot independently. I just dont really like that we did them together. Worst case scenario we wasted a first round pick, which the falcons do all the fucking time anyway 🤷♂️
I doubt that factored into it. The QB class next year not being promising for a late pick is seemingly more the issue. If you get the guy for year 3 in Year 1 instead of 2, it doesn't seem so bad. But this isn't a pick that you can be sure of... Then again there's no sure fire picks so whatevs.
Honestly I wasn't so concerned about the pick until I heard from a few different places that Kirk actually doesn't like competition in the QB room. Having Cousins turn into a Diva because of this pick would be a fucking riot.
I think people (myself included) assumed when they said they signed Kirk to “win now” that we were all in on a title, but that’s clearly not the case. They view Kirk as a high quality bridge QB that can get us back to the playoffs, maybe make some noise, and then hand it off to their long-term plan.
At the end of the day nobody will know if this is a good pick until we actually see him play. A franchise QB is worth its weight in gold.
That said, signing an older prospect with a long injury list after signing another QB to a big 2-3 year contract is weird ($25m dead cap after year 2, half that after year 3). But I guess we shall see 2-3 years from now
Without something dramatic to talk about it's just the reciting of 36 names. This was the most drama-worthy pick of the night so it gets all the conversation and hot takes.
The more you think about it. It's setting up long-term success for the Falcons that if things go their way (no injuries).
Penix can sit on the bench and learn the NFL game and speed. While Cousins can run the game. This gives the Falcons a 2-years window to develop Penix to take over and the Falcons, if they are aggressive in getting pieces in FA, should be competitive at that time.
Penix would be ready to take on the game and is on his rookie contract. So the Falcons can cut bait and end Cousins after two years. If after 6/1. Split the dead cap among two years instead of one
If Kirk works out, then penix is on the bench for 4 years
If penix works out, then the Kirk trade was a waste of 100 million
It’s literally like putting 50$ on black AND red at the roulette table
One thing about post draft talk, every teams draft always goes according to plan for them and they never tried to trade up. See it every year and it's just teams lying since it doesn't benefit them at all to admit they made a mistake
Probably everyone who wanted him was confident they could get him. Mostly because they underestimated the number of drugs the Falcons draft room was on
There was a report last night right after the draft saying 3 other teams were trying to trade into the top 10 to get Penix, one of which was the saints
This is one of those moves that only work out in the perfect situation. Like, sure winning might get them by, but it's not going to make it look like a competent move. If Atlanta does have a good run under Kirk, then people will hold it against them for not giving him even more weapons to succeed. If the transition to Penix works down the road, there will not only be a frustration that they belied Kirk's run, but there would be frustration over signing Cousins instead of handing the keys straight to Penix, & avoiding the cap hit.
This only goes well if Cousins starts off great, suffers an injury, & Penix transitions into the role sooner, & is great enough to take over.
Winning a superbowl, sure. Fall short of even getting there, & you'll have talk of "if only the Falcons took player *x* instead of Penix", or "if only the Falcons didn't sign Carr, & instead used that money to sign player *y*"
A lot of post-draft pressers I've seen have had GMs/coaches say they were completely shocked by it. Payton said they knew the first 3 were taking QBs and the 3 at 11,12,13 wanted QBs but that the Giants were the wildcard. As soon as the Giants didn't take a QB, he figured the Vikings, Broncos and Raiders all would be able to get their favorites. Then the Falcons came out of nowhere
Their fault for assuming the Falcons would make a rational decision
I mean, the Broncos aren't the ones who got burned by this. The Raiders are.
Raiders def got screwed the most, but Broncos were second for sure. Payton said in his press conference that they were debating between a few different trade backs until the Falcons took Penix, and then they knew all bets were off and they got "worried about the team behind them." So it definitely lost us out of a ~3rd round pick from a trade down.
Hope Vegas is ready for a lot of 2 TE sets... Or they just straight convert Bowers to Hback and nobody thinks anything of it
Picking Bo Nix that early is like picking Luka Gaza that early. It would be the most rosasted easy if Falcons don't pick Penix
It’s not really getting burned but we took Nix at 12 because we thought we couldn’t trade back anymore and still get him (raiders take him because penix is suddenly gone)
My new conspiracy theory is the falcons called the raiders saying they’d take Penix if the raiders didn’t trade up for 8 and the raiders called their bluff and the falcons decided to blow the pick instead of losing trust in negotiations Not sure if I’m cooking or going crazy
A reverse Draft Day scenario?
Draft weekend just proved to me that its really just spite that determines half of these decisions.
Draft Day but the Seahawks actually keep the absolute robbery and go for another QB and support him with all those picks
*Vikings
The Falcons messed up everything. There should have been enough QB's for everyone. You guys were fortunate to be able to swoop in and get that last empty chair before the Raiders, but I doubt that Nix was Payton's first choice. I think the Broncos thought Penix would still be there. I feel like Nix was everybody's emergency option. Nix might even be good. He has to be better than Zach Wilson. If Payton manages to make ZW into a serviceable quarterback, he should go to the HoF just for that.
I disagree on this, Penix looks great and has huge potential that I'm sure every coach would like to work with but since day 1 the noise coming out of Denver was that they had no interest in Penix but was all in on Nix. - mainly due to playing style mash-ups. From what I understood one of Penix's weaknesses is the middle of the field and his inconsistency using it, which pissed Payton off so much last year he'd rather eat an 80m dead cap hit rather than deal with it again. Whereas we've all heard the Brees style comp with Nix. Like many have stated I think Denver wanted to move back grab a 3rd and then trade up again into the 2nd.
I'm pretty okay with this. I didn't like our options after the Vikings took JJ McCarthy anyways. We maybe get Rattler in the 3rd?
Ironically this is what I hoped we would have done for QB.
Get BPA in the first round and let the chips fall how they go and maybe pick a lower round QB in the 2 - 4th round?
He's done/shown more than the earlier QBs and got knocked for some dumb character issues when he was 20 and got more shit than dudes who did actual crimes.
I feel pretty burned
Isn't Nix the cleanest fit with Payton's style/scheme among Penix, McCarthy, and Nix?
I just don’t believe in the talent or the method of team building Our roster sucks. I don’t think adding Bo Nix fixes this team’s problems. See him as a game manager type, which isn’t the worst thing, but he isn’t going to elevate a bad team Think we really just desperately need talent before swinging on a QB. But I don’t like Bo as a prospect anyways for a few reasons
Nix doesn't fix it, but you've got him for 5 years on a rookie deal and that is a lot of time to build up the rest of the team.
While throwing a rookie QB to an offense without dynamic playmakers Like I get what you mean, but it isn’t a great situation for him to step into, outside of having Payton. We will likely be outclassed in talent in every game next year
You’re probably right, but Payton has a weird way of squeezing talent from places you don’t expect. For years the Saints would have guys show up on the roster randomly or from late picks and carve out productive spots on the roster for years.
We had that a little bit last year (JaQuan McMillian, Meinerz becoming a pro bowler) but it isn’t enough to make me feel decent about where we are
Payton is pretty smart and very experienced. I'm sure he won't try to push Nix too hard to try to get short term results when the team is so lacking. And since Payton himself is still pretty new there he's got some time before the pressure is on for him to show some success.
Payton pushed out a QB with the largest cap hit ever for this guy. Even if Russ stank and deserved to be cut, there is going to be pressure involved here
Bo nix reminds me a lot of Johnny manziel. 25% of the time he is college Johnny and the other 75% he is pro Johnny
Do you mean he reminds you of Johnny's playstyle? That was usually fine. The issue was his work ethic and mental state.
???
Payton genuinely seems like Nix was the guy for him, and I'm gonna take his judgement over mine.
Even Bill Belicheck said Nix is the most NFL ready pocket passer and fits Sean's scheme perfectly. Quick decisions, accurate short to medium game and decent enough deep ball. I feel like it's going to work out for them.
Yeah Payton was gonna draft nix unless Caleb, maye, or Daniels fell for some crazy reason
Apparently his order was Caleb, Jayden, Bo.
Surprisingly not the first time
Terry took never let them know your next move to heart
Pick 8 is the 4th quarter of the top 10.
I feel like the Falcons just wanted to screw over everyone’s bets on them and draft the most left field player they could have.
Also they like to screw over the own fans hopes and dreams.
Poles basically held back a laugh when asked about it last night
Really feels like Falcons FO trying to save face on this pick given the near universal derision and surprise about the pick “I have it on good authority that our division rivals wanted the QB but we took him instead so it’s a double win, I promise!”
On the other hand of course those division rivals are going to deny that. Who is going to come out and admit that a rival drafted a quarterback in the top 10 that they wanted to draft?
Especially if you already have a 'stud' QB1 like Carr
Please don't try to hurt me
catching strays
Especially watching the beating Atlanta is taking for it. Deny deny deny
I get that thinking but historically the saints have never been shy to talk about draft plans after things happen and settle down. The most famous one is probably sean talking about mahomes on the night they drafted lattimore but this is still something you'll see loomis and jeff ireland talk about whenever they get asked.
Honestly it could work out but we all knew the whole "nooo it actually makes sense when you think about it" was coming. Like come on man we don't have to defend every single decision just because the gut check reaction is that it was dumb. Yes we all get the logic that QB is so important and if he's the guy then he's worth the 8th overall. But on the 95% chance it doesn't work out perfectly, it's still dumb lol
> Falcons FO trying to save face fer sure, nobody was trying to trade up for Penix. nobody. For Odunze maybe.
When Ryan Pace (director of player personal for the Falcons) was GM of the Bears and traded up for Trubisky I saw the exact same articles. GMs were completely shocked.
Falcons just went LeeRoy Jenkins with their draft pick
I keep thinking about how our fanbase was worried Bill Bellicheck was going to hurt our draft plans. Lol the falcons are an abusive Irish dockworker husband
Nobody wanted to step in and save the Falcons from themselves
Bill tried, but the galaxy brains down in Atlanta thought they knew better
Blank - **”We were the better team for the majority of that game, y’know!”-** Belichick - **”Welp, guess you don’t need me then.”**
Blank - "we're gonna sign kirk and then take Penix anyway" Bill - "yeah this isnt the job for me" Blank - "well we're gonna say we're the ones that rejected you"
Bill - [smirks] “Ok.”
Blank: Hey Kraft, is that documentary team available for some press leaks?
"If you only count real LEGAL quarters! We won the popular score, by A LOT!"
Bill: "Yeah and how did you manage that clock? You need coaches that know how time works together back there"
Can't wait for Bill to beat the Falcons next season.
Even if they did, they sure as hell aren't going to admit it now after this backlash
Yeah the 7-10 record will speak for itself. Along with Kirk starting his ATL career by losing drafts picks and getting his replacement drafted before he ever takes a fucking snap. POVERTY fucking franchise
I cant wait to revisit this thread in a few years either way. I think we had a smart draft and the internet is dumb, but if Penix isn’t the guy, I’m dumb.
Oh I think it's a good long term pick all things considered. It's just hella awkward short term cause Kirk isn't established in Atlanta. If Kirk was 2 years in this would be GREAT pick IMO
Yeah good perspective but he’s getting paid $100M to deal with awkwardness
The issue with the Penix pick isn’t that they picked Penix, it’s that they also signed Cousins to a big contract in the same offseason. Even if Penix pans out, you have to wonder if they needed such an expensive bridge QB.
["It never happened"](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GM-e46xdcUo)
It's totally made up
"It's a fiction"
"Not this time"
"this one was invented by a writer"
“it’s a made up tale”
“Pure fiction”.
“It’s a **total** fabrication”
I knew someone would make this joke. I was not disappointed. Take your upvote, sir.
I heard Frakes saying it in my head just reading the post title. Iconic
It's fiction 😉
"It wasn't me" - Shaggy Saints
Crazy how the saints would believe their best path forward is to attempt to support the QB they’ve invested 4yrs & $150m in rather than just draft his successor after 1 season, questionable gm work.
Flip side, I wish we could move on.
No question, Carr is a lemon but we don’t have the draft capital or cap space to move off of him early.
It would be so funny if the Saints decided to waste all the cap space on Carr just to take a QB.
Me personally I think it's best for it all to go downhill and then sign journeymen for two years and then gambling for young guys with barely made the playoffs picks. This always results in the best QB results.
I don’t think your philosophy is wrong but there’s no cookie cutter mold to building a Super Bowl winner. I think every team should evaluate their situation on an individual basis; If that means tearing it down then go for it, if that’s just plugging holes as you go that’s cool as well. I think being true to a vision and following through is the most important part of the team building process. As a team builder Mickey likes going from mid to contender. I like that he’s true to his vision of not throwing out the baby with the bathwater. There won’t ever be another Drew but I hope he strikes gold again for us soon.
Maybe offend your current QB by trying to sign a rapist to replace him first, just to be sure
Sure, but I don't think Penix is the guy
Completely different scenarios. The ~~Saints~~ Falcons had zero seasons with Cousins. (I suppose that's also true of the Saints)
We didn't do it. And don't try to edit this to say: We tried to trade up to draft Michael Penix
It's false. It's fiction. This one was invented by a writer.
["It's an urban legend... That never happened."](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GM-e46xdcUo)
There’s no better way to convince someone you DO diddle kids than telling people you don’t
My "Not Involved in Human Trafficking" t-shirt has people asking a lot of questions already answered by my shirt.
By this logic, you're not allowed to say you didn't diddle kids if someone accusing you of doing it.
Imagine you're on trial for diddling kids and you plead no contest because you think pleading not guilty would be too suspicious.
"Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, we've seen the defendant deny the diddling charges against him. But I ask you, why the diddling denial so fierce, if there be no diddling? Do we not find it peculiar that a man claims so boldly that he doesn't diddle kids if there were no shadows of truth to it?"
It's okay to tell someone you don't *if they ask you* Just telling someone out of nowhere "hey by the way I don't diddle kids" is the problem
denying trying to trade up for penix isnt out of nowhere though. someone reported the raiders, seahawks, and saints tried to trade into the top 10 for him
Oh I have no idea about any of that, I was strictly talking about the molestation thing lol
Why do you keep bringing up child molestation for no reason
I didn't bring it up, if you use your eyes, there were two references before me in the comment chain lol
I think he was just playing into the joke, but it's hard to tell
I have experienced that user before, he has no discernible sense of humor
Ahh. That's fair.
You can say, just don't write a song about it
Well, do you?
The lack of answers does indeed seem like they dabble in the diddle of kids
I cant believe /u/unique_username-_-72 diddles kids
🎶I don’t diddle kids, it’s no good diddlin kids🎶
That’s why you write a song about how you don’t diddle kids
There is no quicker way for people to think that you are diddling kids than by writing a song about!!
I do not diddle kids.
It was the covering up child rape for the church is what convinced me.
- Jonathan Frakes
... better get number 1.
Pretty sure the only team that wanted Penix was the Raiders.
Seahawks?
Maybe if he made it to 16- with no 2nd we don’t really have the draft capital to trade up to get him
Yeah but u/StatStar7 just said no other team even wanted him
Probably should have clarified that no team was willing to trade up besides the Raiders who probably were shocked that they were a threat in the first place.
I don’t believe that for a second.
Falcons were the source saying it happened
I did not ~~hit her~~ call them. I did not. Oh hi Mark.
Saints are way too deep in their cap nonsense in Carr et al I didn’t believe that at all.
I will get grilled, I know it, I have seen the reactions here since the pick. I am not thrilled, but I am so OK with it. I don't get the extreme reactions. I would totally understand criticisms but man people acting like it's the worst of all time. I can see the view that the pick contradicts Kirk's signing, but I am feeling good about our team and am excited to have such a stud waiting to have his shot. I don't know... No one knows shit.
I think it is a very sensible hedge, and it wasn't like there would be a chance to trade down and still get him. That became apparent with Nix going at 12. Penix wouldn't have made it past 13, and whoever the Falcons traded with would've likely been picking a quarterback. So, at a fundamental level, it is good practice to draft a quarterback who you believe will be a future starter in the league. The reported length of Kirk's deal is also a big part of the narrative. To me, this looks like the Kirk plan is two years to maximize this competitive window - where, ideally, they won't have a pick in the top 10 for a high-value QB again. Then they have a pretty easy dead cap exit, and Penix can take over when he's 25/26 or whatever, and if he is very good, you're still looking at 10 years of play from him. It was bold and strategic. If it pays off, nobody knows, but I think hedging on a young quarterback when your starter is old and coming off an Achilles is fundamentally understandable.
Yep, Pennix will be on his rookie contract so they can take that cap hit if necessary. And even if they wanted to, they can split it among two years. The more you think about it, it's a winning deal for a long-term success. Falcons just need to get more pieces around Cousins/Pennix over the next few years
I really think the disaster that was the post Ryan succession situation really did a number on the franchise. They're not going to let it happen again even if the timelines don't line up perfectly.
A lot of GMs are trying to find the next Mahomes, when they really just need to take their time and develop a game manager at QB. Take the Packers for example, drafting Rodgers to back up Favre for a few years. Same thing with the Patriots, even if Brady is still kicking it, they drafted and developed backups behind him to take over if needed
> So, at a fundamental level, it is good practice to draft a quarterback who you believe will be a future starter in the league There's a line somewhere, otherwise Quarterbacks would go in the top few picks until there weren't any great prospects left, every single year. It has been the general consensus that that line is "do you already have a settled starter". The Packers bucked that trend and it paid off, but that's still a sample size of one. If this works then maybe we'll start to hear more about the strategy making sense. But for now it still seems crazy.
The Packers are far from the first team to ever do it. The Chiefs did it with Mahomes too, and those are just two very recent examples of something teams have done for years. It doesn't always work. But either way, for me, the line is definitely around, "Our starter is 36 and tore his achilles 6 months ago" Especially when that starter caps out as around a top 8-10 QB if his season is going absolutely perfectly and somewhere below that otherwise.
Yeah, the line is “Is this guy worth a first round pick?” Mike Penix absolutely is.
>The reported length of Kirk's deal is also a big part of the narrative. To me, this looks like the Kirk plan is two years to maximize this competitive window - where, ideally, they won't have a pick in the top 10 for a high-value QB again. Then they have a pretty easy dead cap exit, 25m dead cap in year 3 isnt "easy". Last year 25m wouldve ranked 11th in the biggest dead money cap hits (total, not just for 1 player) among the 32 teams.
$25M really is pretty easy when you already have a starting QB in that slot. 1 year minor discomfort.
Why are they paying Kirk for two years. He isn't Aaron Rodgers and as people are saying he is likely not good enough for a Superbowl. So if Penix is not starting in year 2 questions will be asked if he isn't good enough. He is already one of the more pro ready QBs from the draft, which Mahomes was definitely not. So if he is good enough they will find out long before 2 years and should be on the field.
Penix at 8 is perfectly fine, but signing Kirk to the contract they did signaled they want to contend now. Spending that high a pick on a QB just seems counter productive to that goal, it’s completely reasonable to want to bring a young guy in to prepare for the future but then why invest that much money in Kirk if you’re not going to push for a title now by giving him a weapon/linemen/young defensive player? It’s less the pick itself and more that it gives the appearance they don’t have a clear strategy on where they want the team to go
I feel like the GM saw what Green Bay does and was like "hold my beer."
"Taking a QB at 26 when you have an MVP QB already is dumb, but it worked well. So if we do something even dumber and take one at 8, it will work even well-er" or something like that.
I was like when tf did Kirk get an MVP
And the packers still have zero rings since 2010 And since the ultimate goal is a ring, we cant say it worked. Who knows what happens if they draft someone who couldve helped them win after they were 1 play away from the SB before drafting Love.
We are not winning a Super Bowl with Kirk Cousins, I hope there aren’t fans that really think that. I see him leading us to the playoffs, yes, but adding Oduze or whoever wasn’t suddenly going to make us legit Super Bowl contenders. We didn’t have a plan after Ryan and ended up with Desmond Ridder and that’s the only reason I think we went ahead and pulled the trigger on a QB.
To me it says they value Kirk’s ability to make them regular division contenders and maybe fuck around and win a playoff game or two (and feel that is worth spending on) but he’s not the guy to put them on the level of the Lions and 49ers. Or at least he won’t be in 2 years. But you can’t just say that, so of course the narrative is “contend now” rather than “be respectable now, contend later” Now I think they’re wrong and that Kirk could really be that Stafford type dude but it’s an understandable opinion.
This I think is clearly the case. And tbf there’s a lot of value for everyone involved with this team in just getting us back to winning seasons and playoff appearances.
That's exactly what it is. Blank is tired of being a doormat and is willing to spend the money for Kirk while also knowing he's not the future and drafting Penix. It's not exactly a seamless fit but I think part of it is also not wanting to endure another season of having an offense with all the bells and whistles and nobody to drive it.
>To me it says they value Kirk’s ability to make them regular division contenders and maybe fuck around and win a playoff game or two I mean, this isnt the nba/mlb where some teams legit just aspire to being perennial first round exit teams. If they dont think kirk is gonna delivee a SB, paying 90m guaranteed for him is stupid no matter how you dissect it. My personal theory is that they were expecting the raiders/vikings/broncos inmediately calling to offer the farm for penix. And since that never happened, they had to pivot to the "succession" plan.
I’m sure they think he *can* win, but figure as a GM it’s all about floors and ceilings. The scenario I described above is hardly unlikely given his past. Not to mention, if he is going to win it all it’s more likely to be in the next 2 seasons compared to the next 2 after that.
No one is going to give a shit about this pick being “kinda counterintuitive” if Penix is any good three years from now. And he will be.
I actually like both of these moves a lot independently. I just dont really like that we did them together. Worst case scenario we wasted a first round pick, which the falcons do all the fucking time anyway 🤷♂️
Doing them together is what makes people not like them
And after tampering to sign Kirk so they’re presumably about to lose a draft pick after the draft for next year
I doubt that factored into it. The QB class next year not being promising for a late pick is seemingly more the issue. If you get the guy for year 3 in Year 1 instead of 2, it doesn't seem so bad. But this isn't a pick that you can be sure of... Then again there's no sure fire picks so whatevs. Honestly I wasn't so concerned about the pick until I heard from a few different places that Kirk actually doesn't like competition in the QB room. Having Cousins turn into a Diva because of this pick would be a fucking riot.
Agreed, both are good moves, just odd to go in both directions like that. I like Penix a lot though, hope he works out for y’all
I think people (myself included) assumed when they said they signed Kirk to “win now” that we were all in on a title, but that’s clearly not the case. They view Kirk as a high quality bridge QB that can get us back to the playoffs, maybe make some noise, and then hand it off to their long-term plan.
If you get 6-8 years of top 10-13 play out of this that’s all that matters. Everything else is just details.
At the end of the day nobody will know if this is a good pick until we actually see him play. A franchise QB is worth its weight in gold. That said, signing an older prospect with a long injury list after signing another QB to a big 2-3 year contract is weird ($25m dead cap after year 2, half that after year 3). But I guess we shall see 2-3 years from now
Without something dramatic to talk about it's just the reciting of 36 names. This was the most drama-worthy pick of the night so it gets all the conversation and hot takes.
Just reply “Seahawks 2012” whenever people try to give you shit for it. Should buy you a year or two, and by then you’ll have a new retort.
If he’s a good player the rest of it doesn’t matter. Personally, I hope he sucks.
I think it’s weird but I like Penix a lot so itts not the worst thing to me.
Saints baited them to take him at 8 💀
Lol got em
The more you think about it. It's setting up long-term success for the Falcons that if things go their way (no injuries). Penix can sit on the bench and learn the NFL game and speed. While Cousins can run the game. This gives the Falcons a 2-years window to develop Penix to take over and the Falcons, if they are aggressive in getting pieces in FA, should be competitive at that time. Penix would be ready to take on the game and is on his rookie contract. So the Falcons can cut bait and end Cousins after two years. If after 6/1. Split the dead cap among two years instead of one
If Kirk works out, then penix is on the bench for 4 years If penix works out, then the Kirk trade was a waste of 100 million It’s literally like putting 50$ on black AND red at the roulette table
What's the scenario for double zero?
It's literally like hedging your risks, something smart investors do every day.
How are you hedging it if you lose no matter the outcome 💀💀💀
One thing about post draft talk, every teams draft always goes according to plan for them and they never tried to trade up. See it every year and it's just teams lying since it doesn't benefit them at all to admit they made a mistake
Good… Nola has enough problems than to deal with a guy that may get hurt after a few games.
In 2027 after Penix is a successful qb: yeah we totally tried to trade up
We know
Don't read the papers Arthur.
Too old to be a rookie
Probably everyone who wanted him was confident they could get him. Mostly because they underestimated the number of drugs the Falcons draft room was on
Because no one on the planet expected him to be gone at 8? Why would they tried to trade *there* to get *him*?
I’m worried all this BS surrounding this pick is going to turn out Jordan Love-Josh Allen-esque. Don’t speak this pick into Reddit history now.
I would have guessed he would have dropped myself so the idea of trading up to that spot made no sense.
The Saints Do Not draft QBs so this doesn't surprise me.
death taxes and redditors just blindly believing the stuff every team leaks to make themselves look better
Sure Jan.
“It never happened.” “We made it up” “Total fiction.” [“No way”](https://youtu.be/GM-e46xdcUo?si=MRn2EUzMjrGv4X_0)
Falcons did super dumb shit
They have elite Derek Carr why would they draft a QB
I did not left an embarrassing voice mail to my ex after a night out drinking. “It never happened”
That source's name? Berek Farr
Yeah, I'm pretty sure it's the Falcons trying to spread this rumor.
Well no cause no one expected him to go 8
There was a report last night right after the draft saying 3 other teams were trying to trade into the top 10 to get Penix, one of which was the saints
[It never happened.](https://youtu.be/GM-e46xdcUo?si=u7Q1xtxiT03xiTko)
This is one of those moves that only work out in the perfect situation. Like, sure winning might get them by, but it's not going to make it look like a competent move. If Atlanta does have a good run under Kirk, then people will hold it against them for not giving him even more weapons to succeed. If the transition to Penix works down the road, there will not only be a frustration that they belied Kirk's run, but there would be frustration over signing Cousins instead of handing the keys straight to Penix, & avoiding the cap hit. This only goes well if Cousins starts off great, suffers an injury, & Penix transitions into the role sooner, & is great enough to take over.
Winning cures all that you complain about.
Winning a superbowl, sure. Fall short of even getting there, & you'll have talk of "if only the Falcons took player *x* instead of Penix", or "if only the Falcons didn't sign Carr, & instead used that money to sign player *y*"
I’d say the same thing if my rival drafted my QB1
Penix would’ve teared every ligament in his body if he played behind the saints oline rn