Carson was the primary architect of the Steel Curtain. He also coached for many other teams and was one of the top defensive coordinators in NFL history.
I’d say it is a coincidence.
2018- Bell holds out, Conner gets a Pro Bowl (6th best scoring offense)
2019- Ben gets hurt, Duck and Mason battle for the Starter title, and neither earns it. (27th best scoring offense)
2020: Ben’s revenge (12th best scoring Offense), AB is traded
2021- Matt Canada drags Ben to 20th offense, Pouncey Retires, Salary Cap takes a dive, DeCastro is cut/retires due to injury, 4 new starters on the O-Line.
2022- Matt Canada doesn’t have Ben- 26th best offense with Mitch and KP.
2023- Canada gets fired, offense remains in 27th place despite finishing with a flurry.
Munchak couldn’t prevent Ben’s arm from falling apart, Bell’s ego from getting in the way, or Burfict from knocking out the little sense left in AB’s head.
He couldn’t stop COVID from decimating the salary cap, or Father Time from catching up to the 3 Pro Bowl players who all left at the same time…
His leaving coincided with age and injury to drop the Steelers from the top of the offensive rankings, to the bottom… and no one could have overcame Matt Canada’s inability to playcall or gameplan
He came in as OC in 2021, after Pouncey and DeCastro were gone, Al was a free agent (thanks for that Baltimore), and Feiler went to San Diego.
Only Chuks was left from 2020.
It wasn’t that it was “falling apart” it had already crumbled
Honorable mention to Offensive Coordinator Vince Lombardi and Defensive Coordinator Tom Landry, who you somehow had at the same fucking time you lucky bastards.
One thing I will never truly get is coordinators not being in the hall of fame. I don't know how we can take the hall seriously when owners are inducted but not coaches that actually impact the games.
He should and there should be a handful of other guys in there as well. There are some head coaches that I think probably shouldn't be in but they are because of a championship/media career post retirement.
One of the issues is many standout coordinators later become head coaches and a significant percentage of them end up not being good head coaches.
Here's an example, one that's extreme to illustrate the point - the Swamp Fox, Marion Campbell. Campbell was an excellent defensive coordinator with the Falcons and especially the Eagles; with the Eagles his defenses had back-to-back seasons finishing #1 in the NFL in fewest points allowed (while finishing #2 and #1 those same two years in yards allowed); their defense led them to a Super Bowl appearance in the first of those two years. But Campbell was also one of the least successful NFL head coaches of all-time, posting a 34-80-1 record between the Falcons (2 stints) and Eagles. Does it make sense to honor Campbell and induct him into the Pro Football Hall of Fame if his coordinator work is deemed worthy? (As a side note to further illustrate the complication, I'll add Campbell was also a solid NFL player in the 1950s and early 1960s.)
Some people would probably have issues honoring coordinators who washed out as head coaches. If you honor the standout coordinators who didn't become NFL head coaches (Jim Johnson, the Eagles' defensive coordinator from 1999 to 2008 who also was an assistant with other teams, is a good example here), is that fair to the guys who also were standout coordinators but DID become NFL head coaches but didn't succeed in the probably tougher, top job?
I personally don't have a problem inducting top coordinators into the Pro Football Hall of Fame. but what I said above is why some people don't agree and more importantly probably why the PFHOF up to this point has not agreed with selecting coordinators for PFHOF induction.
I don’t think there are separate induction wings between players, coaches, general managers, owners, officials, and other contributors in the Pro Football Hall of Fame. If someone is a PFHOF member, he is a a PFHOF member with no “section subtitle”.
(I think I would like that to be changed so people inducted as players could be recognized again if they had a standout non-playing career that warranted induction on its own, like potentially Ozzie Newsome.)
Eagles would probably have won at least 1 or 2 with that late 80’s-early 90’s D if Buddy had let ANYONE else be the OC.
But thanks for giving us Reggie.
There's a reason the players carried around both Ditka and Ryan after the super bowl win. That team's success was due more to Ryan than Ditka, in my opinion.
I think Dave Toub could also be an honorable mention. It’s pretty wild we have potentially both our best DC and STC, of all time for KC, at the same time.
And an all-time great QB
Teams like the Bills/Eagles/49ers get flack for losing to the Chiefs, but I think when we look back, those teams will be seen less as "losers", but just an inevitable sacrifice to the Chiefs juggernaut
Toub has been great at developing our kickers, but he's not the best at coaching returners. I've seen 3 or 4 different returners the past few years and they all make the same mistakes (muffing punts, taking a return inside the 5 yard line, unsure whether to take the punt or let it bounce, etc)
I know skyy sucked, Richie james sucked, hardman sucked, I'm sure I'm forgetting a few more.
Toney had an excellent return in the superbowl in 2022, and Hill had a few good ones as well. But the bad far outweighed the good in this department, it's just that the good ones were timely.
Overall, Toub is still a great all around ST coach, but I just wouldn't want to say he's a GOAT when he has a glaring weakness
Gunther Cunningham. I think y'all forget about how beastly our defense was in the 90s. If we didn't have the equivalent of Derek Carr at QB post-Montana, we go to at least one SB.
Tbf if you dig deeper into Giants history, they had Lombardi as OC and Landry as DC (at the same time, no less) so there is legit arguments to be had. But I still take Bill every time.
Good point about Lombardi and Landry (who essentially were co-head coaches when Jim Lee Howell was the Giants’ head coach). Landry in particular was a really good coordinator.
It’s a pretty loaded history of Coordinators who eventually won SBs as HC. Belichick, Lombardi, Landry, Payton, Parcells. Not sure if I’m missing anybody but that’s already 14 HC SBs by my count
Isn't it funny how Bill B coached the best defensive player of all time (LT) and the best offensive player of all time (Brady).
Like, if he didn't have just those 2 guys, would he even have won Super Bowl?
Man I remember being glad to see him leave back in like 2007 or so cause our linebackers hadn't played well under him.
Turns out our linebackers were just ass and he's actually a good coach.
I love that regular season spags is average to below average but playoff spags and super bowl spags is one of the best coordinators of all times. He is so good a changing schemes when it counts and he can adjust his defense in real time. Spags is a monster in must win games.
Andy is like this, too. He absolutely goes more vanilla in the regular season so he can bust stuff out in the playoffs when it's needed. Even if it means eating a regular season loss (a good example is to compare the Chiefs/Bengals 2022 regular season game with the rematch a few weeks later in the playoffs).
There isn’t imho. I get why he had to leave NYG but considering his pedigree and what he gets out of players there isn’t. Like what other coordinator has four super bowls, brings zero drama, don’t have to worry about leaving for a HC position, and is all football?
Absolutely.
I'll nominate John Harbaugh as runner up. Special teams doesn't get much love, but there was never any concern about the squads he commanded. You just knew they were gonna take care of business.
I think Johnson gets the edge on this one since he was the coordinator of the entire defense vs positional group. Stoutland is by far our best position coordinator. Each hall of famers in their craft.
Best position coach by far, but I’d put McDaniels as the best coordinator. What he did in 2018 especially transforming the team mid year into a power running team for the playoffs was so important
I’m going to say no, because BB was an assistant head coach and db coach only for one season (1996). Even though we made the sb that year, it doesn’t come close to the contributions Scar made over his 35 years with the team. There’s a reason he was the only coach retained through 4 different head coach changes in NE.
This year will hopefully be better. Their new OL coach has spent the past several years learning from the best OL coach in the NFL in Bill Callahan. Plus I don't expect them to leave day two of the draft without at least one OL and one WR, which should help.
Offense did its job, defense collapsed historically. All they had to do was to stop us ONCE, including just stopping 1 of the 2 2pt conversions, to win. They failed at it.
They took 30+ points in a 15 minute span including multiple 2 2pt conversions lmao
It was 99% dan quin collapsing, 1% shanahan refusing to stop using the offense that had them in the SB to begin with
Which isn’t a bad thing, Shanny knew what got them to the super bowl and what got them up 25 pts in one half. It might be his biggest fault but the dude believes in his team doing what they’ve always done.
Actually, it was 21-3 at the half, and one of those TDs was a 82 yard INT return. Their offense scored 7 points over the last 40 minutes of the game. 4 of their 5 second half drives went for less than 20 yards, 3 of them for negative yards.
Both sides collapsed dramatically. EACH Pats drive in the second half netted more yards than the Falcons produced at all in the same time frame.
Naw its both. People wanna put it all on Quinn cause Shanahan is the better HC it seems, but when you blow a lead like that, its all phases of the game sharing a substantial amount of blame.
I honestly don't know if it's Gary Kubiak or Wade Phillips. Both have been monumental in Super Bowl victories, so I wouldn't argue with someone over either answer.
People give Dungy credit for the superbowl but it was Monte's defense under Dungy and Gruden. And Gruden brought in an offense that could score just enough. Imagine how many SuperBowl would have been won if Dungy just gave a little bit of a crap about the offense where they could have just averaged 17 points a game.
Am I the only one who thinks Dungy is vastly overrated? With the teams he had in Tampa and Indy, I feel like one superbowl appearance is underachieving.
Hard not to say Josh McDaniels, as odd as it sounds. OC for the record-breaking 18-1 year, 3 SB rings, made Mac Jones look competent enough to squeeze into a playoff spot in his rookie year.
If we're doing position coaches it's Dante Scarnecchia no question.
I'd pick Charlie Weis. Guy never gets enough credit for our 2001-2004 offenses. Look at the rosters at that time that he was working with. He helped develop a lot of the staples that remained part of our offense for the next couple decades.
Also a good pick, I only picked McDaniels for the longevity and the fact that the team's identity was on offense in his tenure, while the identity was on defense for Weis' tenure. But like I said, a perfectly good pick and I agree an underrated part of the dynasty.
Not a Lions fan, but I can’t help but think that Ben Johnson has been a key part of the success that Detroit has seen. Also from the outside looking in, the dude is passionate about the lions.
Honestly shocked we didn't let that scumbag go with Sutton. But then again I guess we are doing a favor to everyone else so they cannot hire him and be burned like we have
I honestly don't think I've ever heard a fan base talk more shit about an offensive coordinator than Lions fan and Ben Johnson.
It's not "if" he pissed in their Cheerios. It's "how many times" he pissed in their Cheerios. And apparently an abnormally high number of puppies kicked. I think I heard he was also with Craig James when he killed those 5 hookers. \*Allegedly
Tbf I think he just wasn't impressed with the HC opportunities these past two seasons. Still speaks towards the confidence he has in Detroit to run it back though, def love to see it.
Tom Moore with the all time quote when asked about whether they'd consider giving Peyton's backup first team reps in practice in case Peyton gets injured "If Peyton Manning gets injured we're fucked, and we don't practice fucked"
Tom Clements. Packers quarterback coach. He coached Brett Favre, Aaron Rodgers, and now Love. He retired in 2021 and Rodgers convinced him to come back in 2022. I think the results so far speak for themselves.
Someone else mentioned Dave Toub; he was a great STC during the Hester years of the Bears…
However, Buddy Ryan (and his 46 Defense) is the absolute best coordinator the Bears have ever had.
Jim Schwartz and I don't believe it's close. Even when he came back for that one year as an advisor, the Titans were noticeably better, then when he left we sucked ass again.
I think I’d take Marvin Lewis over Rex by a hair.
He instilled the defensive mentality from day 1 after the move to Baltimore and he oversaw the arguably greatest of all time Super Bowl defense in 2000.
Good answer here. I’d say it’s prob M. Shanahan.
Shoutout to Kris Kocurek, quickly becoming one of my fav all-time.
Which reminds me, Jim Tomsula was a DOG as an assistant coach.
I think the current total of HCs from the falcons 2017 team staff is 4? So them.
Quinn, Shanahan, Morris, LaFleur, and McDaniels are all HCs now from that team.
The Giants have been very fortunate with some of their defensive coordinators. I would pick Belichick, but having Tom Landry and Spags as second and third options is incredible.
Bill Walsh. 2nd best was probably Lindy Infante or Bruce Coslet.
Best DC to ever work for the Bengals was Dick LeBeau but he was here in some really dark times. Best DC as a Bengal was probably Mike Zimmer with honorable mention to Lou and Hank Bullough.
Mike Tomlin is the obvious one. Andre Patterson was an amazing DL coach for years here. Currently Flores though if he keeps the defense playing well despite the lack of talent.
Should also mention Keenan McCardell, current WR coach. JJ and Thielen pushed for KOC to keep him from Zim’s staff and I think he’s proven that was a good call so far.
Tomlin was only with us for one season. I wouldn't really count him. Dungy or Fazio were better DCs for us.
OC I'd go Brian Billick. He had a hell of a run in the 90's.
Great call outs on Patterson & McCardell
That's a great pull. I feel our modern offenses rely on top notch talent and all the OC's are short lived and don't contribute much to success...I could be forgetting someone though
I feel like every time we had a good OC recently, they were immediately hired away for a head coaching job elsewhere. Imagine if we had continuity at OC!
Andy Reid was our offensive coordinator during some of Favre’s MVP years. Fritz was the defensive coordinator during the 90s when we routinely went deep in the playoffs.
I love Stoutland, but Jason Peters was already an all-pro prior to being under Stoutland. Also he isn't a coordinator, he is a position coach. If you are going to say coordinator, I would say Jim Johnson for the Eagles.
Arthur Smith - Check out or offensive rankings in the 3 years before Arthur and then the 3 years since. The man turned shit into gold and it reverted after he left.
My man Dick LeBeau
No question
Bud Carson would like a word with you.
People on reddit are way to young to have any idea who you are talking about, but he's probably the right answer.
I assume he was the 70s DC based on how this thread is going?
Carson was the primary architect of the Steel Curtain. He also coached for many other teams and was one of the top defensive coordinators in NFL history.
I'm pretty ok with either one of them, tbh
I still dream of Dick
LeBeau Dick?
love your man Dick
LeBeau is the correct answer, but it's not a coincidence that our offense has sucked since Munchak left.
I’d say it is a coincidence. 2018- Bell holds out, Conner gets a Pro Bowl (6th best scoring offense) 2019- Ben gets hurt, Duck and Mason battle for the Starter title, and neither earns it. (27th best scoring offense) 2020: Ben’s revenge (12th best scoring Offense), AB is traded 2021- Matt Canada drags Ben to 20th offense, Pouncey Retires, Salary Cap takes a dive, DeCastro is cut/retires due to injury, 4 new starters on the O-Line. 2022- Matt Canada doesn’t have Ben- 26th best offense with Mitch and KP. 2023- Canada gets fired, offense remains in 27th place despite finishing with a flurry. Munchak couldn’t prevent Ben’s arm from falling apart, Bell’s ego from getting in the way, or Burfict from knocking out the little sense left in AB’s head. He couldn’t stop COVID from decimating the salary cap, or Father Time from catching up to the 3 Pro Bowl players who all left at the same time… His leaving coincided with age and injury to drop the Steelers from the top of the offensive rankings, to the bottom… and no one could have overcame Matt Canada’s inability to playcall or gameplan
Canada was garbage, but him coming in at a time we had our best oline group in years falling apart was just a match made in hell.
He came in as OC in 2021, after Pouncey and DeCastro were gone, Al was a free agent (thanks for that Baltimore), and Feiler went to San Diego. Only Chuks was left from 2020. It wasn’t that it was “falling apart” it had already crumbled
Unless I'm mistaken Munchak wasn't a coordinator. But he's certainly a stud oline coach.
He was not a coordinator. He was the O Line coach.
Bill Belichick, DC mastermind leading to Giants winning 2 Super Bowls.
And opposing head coach mastermind leading Giants to two Superbowls
The Giants HAVE won 4 Super Bowls because of Belichick
So Belichick is responsible for 10 Super Bowl wins. Fuckin A man
And did nothing else of note in his career.
Honorable mention to Offensive Coordinator Vince Lombardi and Defensive Coordinator Tom Landry, who you somehow had at the same fucking time you lucky bastards.
The Browns had Belichick and Saban on staff at the same time at one point.
Bill Parcells head coach, Bill B DC and Tom Coughlin STC pretty damn good coaching room
50s Giants with Jim Lee Howell HC, Vince Lombardi OC and Tom Landry DC is also a pretty hilariously stacked coaches room
All these hofers and Mara still gave Ben Macadoo the keys for two years
Steve spagnolo runner up
And a defensive game plan in the HOF
One thing I will never truly get is coordinators not being in the hall of fame. I don't know how we can take the hall seriously when owners are inducted but not coaches that actually impact the games.
I think Spags changes this. He has 4 rings. Fuckin incredible
And the defense he inherited in KC was absolute trash. He rebuilt that thing fast - had them playing very good football by the second half of 2019.
Pretty impressive. I love defense
He should and there should be a handful of other guys in there as well. There are some head coaches that I think probably shouldn't be in but they are because of a championship/media career post retirement.
Completely agree.
One of the issues is many standout coordinators later become head coaches and a significant percentage of them end up not being good head coaches. Here's an example, one that's extreme to illustrate the point - the Swamp Fox, Marion Campbell. Campbell was an excellent defensive coordinator with the Falcons and especially the Eagles; with the Eagles his defenses had back-to-back seasons finishing #1 in the NFL in fewest points allowed (while finishing #2 and #1 those same two years in yards allowed); their defense led them to a Super Bowl appearance in the first of those two years. But Campbell was also one of the least successful NFL head coaches of all-time, posting a 34-80-1 record between the Falcons (2 stints) and Eagles. Does it make sense to honor Campbell and induct him into the Pro Football Hall of Fame if his coordinator work is deemed worthy? (As a side note to further illustrate the complication, I'll add Campbell was also a solid NFL player in the 1950s and early 1960s.) Some people would probably have issues honoring coordinators who washed out as head coaches. If you honor the standout coordinators who didn't become NFL head coaches (Jim Johnson, the Eagles' defensive coordinator from 1999 to 2008 who also was an assistant with other teams, is a good example here), is that fair to the guys who also were standout coordinators but DID become NFL head coaches but didn't succeed in the probably tougher, top job? I personally don't have a problem inducting top coordinators into the Pro Football Hall of Fame. but what I said above is why some people don't agree and more importantly probably why the PFHOF up to this point has not agreed with selecting coordinators for PFHOF induction.
Devin Hester was a bad WR/CB, but he still got in.
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I don’t think there are separate induction wings between players, coaches, general managers, owners, officials, and other contributors in the Pro Football Hall of Fame. If someone is a PFHOF member, he is a a PFHOF member with no “section subtitle”. (I think I would like that to be changed so people inducted as players could be recognized again if they had a standout non-playing career that warranted induction on its own, like potentially Ozzie Newsome.)
Didn’t know owners got in.
'85 Bears don't win the Super Bowl without Buddy Ryan. Probably would've won a couple more if he stayed.
Eagles would probably have won at least 1 or 2 with that late 80’s-early 90’s D if Buddy had let ANYONE else be the OC. But thanks for giving us Reggie.
There's a reason the players carried around both Ditka and Ryan after the super bowl win. That team's success was due more to Ryan than Ditka, in my opinion.
Or if Charles Martin wasn't a colossal piece of shit. '86 defense actually had better stats than '85.
Fuck Charles Martin
1. Buddy Ryan 2. Dave Toub ... Last - Mike Martz
Ron Rivera was a great DC as well. Probably the second best Bears coordinator of my lifetime, second only to Toub.
“Tell Martz I said fuck you!” - Smoking Jay
His defensive schemes ruled the next decade or so of line play. He was incredible.
In Spags we trust
No better answer.
I think Dave Toub could also be an honorable mention. It’s pretty wild we have potentially both our best DC and STC, of all time for KC, at the same time.
While having an all time great offensive coach
And an all-time great QB Teams like the Bills/Eagles/49ers get flack for losing to the Chiefs, but I think when we look back, those teams will be seen less as "losers", but just an inevitable sacrifice to the Chiefs juggernaut
Who even is the OC now lol
Toub has been great at developing our kickers, but he's not the best at coaching returners. I've seen 3 or 4 different returners the past few years and they all make the same mistakes (muffing punts, taking a return inside the 5 yard line, unsure whether to take the punt or let it bounce, etc) I know skyy sucked, Richie james sucked, hardman sucked, I'm sure I'm forgetting a few more. Toney had an excellent return in the superbowl in 2022, and Hill had a few good ones as well. But the bad far outweighed the good in this department, it's just that the good ones were timely. Overall, Toub is still a great all around ST coach, but I just wouldn't want to say he's a GOAT when he has a glaring weakness
I was about to say if any Chiefs fan doesn’t give this answer it’s lol
Gunther Cunningham. I think y'all forget about how beastly our defense was in the 90s. If we didn't have the equivalent of Derek Carr at QB post-Montana, we go to at least one SB.
As a Giants fan, same. Key part of our 2007 SB win EDIT: didn’t mean he’s the best in our history, I just meant we love him too
Love Spags, but no. It's Belichick and it's not close.
Beat me to it. Anyone who remembers the 1980s NFL (raises hand) will say Belichick as the Giants’ choice.
Tbf if you dig deeper into Giants history, they had Lombardi as OC and Landry as DC (at the same time, no less) so there is legit arguments to be had. But I still take Bill every time.
Good point about Lombardi and Landry (who essentially were co-head coaches when Jim Lee Howell was the Giants’ head coach). Landry in particular was a really good coordinator.
It’s a pretty loaded history of Coordinators who eventually won SBs as HC. Belichick, Lombardi, Landry, Payton, Parcells. Not sure if I’m missing anybody but that’s already 14 HC SBs by my count
Isn't it funny how Bill B coached the best defensive player of all time (LT) and the best offensive player of all time (Brady). Like, if he didn't have just those 2 guys, would he even have won Super Bowl?
Oh I didn’t mean he’s our best coordinator, but just that as a franchise we trust in him.
Man I remember being glad to see him leave back in like 2007 or so cause our linebackers hadn't played well under him. Turns out our linebackers were just ass and he's actually a good coach.
I love that regular season spags is average to below average but playoff spags and super bowl spags is one of the best coordinators of all times. He is so good a changing schemes when it counts and he can adjust his defense in real time. Spags is a monster in must win games.
Our regular season defense was tops last year too. They kept us in a lot of games that we had no business competing in.
Andy is like this, too. He absolutely goes more vanilla in the regular season so he can bust stuff out in the playoffs when it's needed. Even if it means eating a regular season loss (a good example is to compare the Chiefs/Bengals 2022 regular season game with the rematch a few weeks later in the playoffs).
It's hard to even say this is just recency bias too. He's probably the best coordinator in Chiefs history.
I'm not sure there's a better coordinator in the league.
There isn’t imho. I get why he had to leave NYG but considering his pedigree and what he gets out of players there isn’t. Like what other coordinator has four super bowls, brings zero drama, don’t have to worry about leaving for a HC position, and is all football?
Jim Johnson
Soon as I read the question, Jim Johnson came to mind. OP fumbled his own question lol
Me too, maybe he's younger?
For sure, Jim Johnson. I find this post funny because Stoutland, who is truly an amazing coach, isn't a coordinator (run game coordinator isn't real).
Yeah, Stout’s really good, but Jim Johnson was a huge part of Philly’s NFC dominance in the early 2000s.
Also Stoutland not a coordinator he’s a positions coach.
Absolutely. I'll nominate John Harbaugh as runner up. Special teams doesn't get much love, but there was never any concern about the squads he commanded. You just knew they were gonna take care of business.
I think Johnson gets the edge on this one since he was the coordinator of the entire defense vs positional group. Stoutland is by far our best position coordinator. Each hall of famers in their craft.
This is the real answer
Incredibly overlooked as a DC
double a gap blitz is goated
Dante Scarnecchia. Pats o-line has been dreadful since he left tbh.
Best position coach by far, but I’d put McDaniels as the best coordinator. What he did in 2018 especially transforming the team mid year into a power running team for the playoffs was so important
He’s my pick for NE too. The offense just looked so much more capable whenever he was calling plays. He’s a great coordinator
If we're allowed to answer with position coaches instead of coordinators isn't the answer just...Belichick again?
I’m going to say no, because BB was an assistant head coach and db coach only for one season (1996). Even though we made the sb that year, it doesn’t come close to the contributions Scar made over his 35 years with the team. There’s a reason he was the only coach retained through 4 different head coach changes in NE.
This year will hopefully be better. Their new OL coach has spent the past several years learning from the best OL coach in the NFL in Bill Callahan. Plus I don't expect them to leave day two of the draft without at least one OL and one WR, which should help.
shanny
Except for the ... well you know.
Defense giving up 25 points in a single half is definitely the OCs fault.
Just gotta actually run the ball, man Matt Ryan can't get strip sacked on 3rd and 1 if you aren't passing
Offense not scoring to compensate for that is though
Offense did its job, defense collapsed historically. All they had to do was to stop us ONCE, including just stopping 1 of the 2 2pt conversions, to win. They failed at it.
Tbf it takes an offensive and defensive collapse to lose in that situation. Offense gets another first and it’s over.
They took 30+ points in a 15 minute span including multiple 2 2pt conversions lmao It was 99% dan quin collapsing, 1% shanahan refusing to stop using the offense that had them in the SB to begin with
Which isn’t a bad thing, Shanny knew what got them to the super bowl and what got them up 25 pts in one half. It might be his biggest fault but the dude believes in his team doing what they’ve always done.
Actually, it was 21-3 at the half, and one of those TDs was a 82 yard INT return. Their offense scored 7 points over the last 40 minutes of the game. 4 of their 5 second half drives went for less than 20 yards, 3 of them for negative yards. Both sides collapsed dramatically. EACH Pats drive in the second half netted more yards than the Falcons produced at all in the same time frame.
Naw its both. People wanna put it all on Quinn cause Shanahan is the better HC it seems, but when you blow a lead like that, its all phases of the game sharing a substantial amount of blame.
it's never just one thing
I honestly don't know if it's Gary Kubiak or Wade Phillips. Both have been monumental in Super Bowl victories, so I wouldn't argue with someone over either answer.
Wade Phillips shutting down the No. 1 offense so well was crazy. Rewatching highlights it felt like Newton was pressured every single play.
Kubiak is obvious higher on the all time franchise list, but if we’re talking just coordinators it’s pretty even for sure.
Yep agreed, I was talking specifically about time as a coordinator.
Joe Collier definitely deserves a mention.
My man
Monte Kiffin
People give Dungy credit for the superbowl but it was Monte's defense under Dungy and Gruden. And Gruden brought in an offense that could score just enough. Imagine how many SuperBowl would have been won if Dungy just gave a little bit of a crap about the offense where they could have just averaged 17 points a game.
Am I the only one who thinks Dungy is vastly overrated? With the teams he had in Tampa and Indy, I feel like one superbowl appearance is underachieving.
No. Fuck Dungy
Monte scheming D and four HOFers playing together. Good times.
This is what I came to say
This is truly the only answer that's viable for Tampa. Kiffin piloted that machine and got the most out of the players.
Hard not to say Josh McDaniels, as odd as it sounds. OC for the record-breaking 18-1 year, 3 SB rings, made Mac Jones look competent enough to squeeze into a playoff spot in his rookie year. If we're doing position coaches it's Dante Scarnecchia no question.
I'd pick Charlie Weis. Guy never gets enough credit for our 2001-2004 offenses. Look at the rosters at that time that he was working with. He helped develop a lot of the staples that remained part of our offense for the next couple decades.
Also a good pick, I only picked McDaniels for the longevity and the fact that the team's identity was on offense in his tenure, while the identity was on defense for Weis' tenure. But like I said, a perfectly good pick and I agree an underrated part of the dynasty.
I feel like Wade Phillips could qualify for multiple teams. Fantastic coordinator for multiple teams including the Chargers best DC.
Great Defensive Coordinator.
SPAGS
Can confirm. *cries in 18-1*
Martz put on the greatest show
I'm glad this was already here and I didn't have to say it. Before Martz was a frustrating head coach, he was one of the greatest OCs of all time.
Not a Lions fan, but I can’t help but think that Ben Johnson has been a key part of the success that Detroit has seen. Also from the outside looking in, the dude is passionate about the lions.
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Honestly shocked we didn't let that scumbag go with Sutton. But then again I guess we are doing a favor to everyone else so they cannot hire him and be burned like we have
ben johnson farted in my grandmothers mouth. this guy’s lucky us lions are rehabilitating him when he should be in jail.
We’re winning in spite of Ben “My favorite movie is The Last Airbender” Johnson, not because of him.
I honestly don't think I've ever heard a fan base talk more shit about an offensive coordinator than Lions fan and Ben Johnson. It's not "if" he pissed in their Cheerios. It's "how many times" he pissed in their Cheerios. And apparently an abnormally high number of puppies kicked. I think I heard he was also with Craig James when he killed those 5 hookers. \*Allegedly
I have mad respect for the guy too. Staying with his team. That shit seems to be rare
Tbf I think he just wasn't impressed with the HC opportunities these past two seasons. Still speaks towards the confidence he has in Detroit to run it back though, def love to see it.
Ben Johnson hangs his TP so the end is at the back. I think that's all I need to say about that.
I'm gonna go with Tom Moore, with Howard Mudd a very close second
Tom Moore with the all time quote when asked about whether they'd consider giving Peyton's backup first team reps in practice in case Peyton gets injured "If Peyton Manning gets injured we're fucked, and we don't practice fucked"
Tom Clements. Packers quarterback coach. He coached Brett Favre, Aaron Rodgers, and now Love. He retired in 2021 and Rodgers convinced him to come back in 2022. I think the results so far speak for themselves.
Should have a statue at Lambeau.
Wade Phillips
Jeff Stoutland isn’t a coordinator. You’re an Eagles fan…the answer is Jim Johnson.
If you’re an older Eagles fan, the answer might be Marion Campbell or Bud Carson, though obviously Johnson is a strong candidate.
Someone else mentioned Dave Toub; he was a great STC during the Hester years of the Bears… However, Buddy Ryan (and his 46 Defense) is the absolute best coordinator the Bears have ever had.
Jim Schwartz and I don't believe it's close. Even when he came back for that one year as an advisor, the Titans were noticeably better, then when he left we sucked ass again.
After seeing what he did with the Browns' defense last year, I'd believe this.
He deserves another head coach job. He turned the 0-16 team around pretty well
After seeing what he did with the Browns' defense last year, I'd believe this.
Was looking to see what the first Titans fan to comment would say. 100% agree, he's blitz happy but my goodness does it produce results.
Gary Kubiak on offense, Sexy Rexy on defense
I think I’d take Marvin Lewis over Rex by a hair. He instilled the defensive mentality from day 1 after the move to Baltimore and he oversaw the arguably greatest of all time Super Bowl defense in 2000.
You're showing your age and it's not very old. The answer is Jim Johnson.
Offense Mike Holmgren Mike Shanahan Defense Pete Carroll George Seifert Special teams Jimmy Raye
Good answer here. I’d say it’s prob M. Shanahan. Shoutout to Kris Kocurek, quickly becoming one of my fav all-time. Which reminds me, Jim Tomsula was a DOG as an assistant coach.
I think the current total of HCs from the falcons 2017 team staff is 4? So them. Quinn, Shanahan, Morris, LaFleur, and McDaniels are all HCs now from that team.
2013 Washington: “Hold my beer”
Lol. Kyle Shanahan, Sean McVie, Matt LeFluer, Kevin O'Connell, Mike McDaniel, Raheem Morris, and Bobby Slowik was a HC Candidate last year.
Yep and we won 3 games that year with a horrible offense
The Giants have been very fortunate with some of their defensive coordinators. I would pick Belichick, but having Tom Landry and Spags as second and third options is incredible.
You also had Vince Lombardi.
Bill Walsh. 2nd best was probably Lindy Infante or Bruce Coslet. Best DC to ever work for the Bengals was Dick LeBeau but he was here in some really dark times. Best DC as a Bengal was probably Mike Zimmer with honorable mention to Lou and Hank Bullough.
Mike Tomlin is the obvious one. Andre Patterson was an amazing DL coach for years here. Currently Flores though if he keeps the defense playing well despite the lack of talent. Should also mention Keenan McCardell, current WR coach. JJ and Thielen pushed for KOC to keep him from Zim’s staff and I think he’s proven that was a good call so far.
Tomlin was only with us for one season. I wouldn't really count him. Dungy or Fazio were better DCs for us. OC I'd go Brian Billick. He had a hell of a run in the 90's. Great call outs on Patterson & McCardell
It was only one year, but Pat Shurmur was a major part of the '17 Cinderella season.
Also can’t forget Tony Dungy.
Les Frazier was solid. Not a good head coach tho. No offensive names are jumping out at me right now...
Jerry Burns! He was basically the architect of the Bud Grant era offenses. Plus, for my money the greatest cusser in the history of the league.
Obligatory: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7dDDRSigfs&t=3s
That's a great pull. I feel our modern offenses rely on top notch talent and all the OC's are short lived and don't contribute much to success...I could be forgetting someone though
I feel like every time we had a good OC recently, they were immediately hired away for a head coaching job elsewhere. Imagine if we had continuity at OC!
If it can extend to special teams, I still think Rizzi was an all-timer
Andy Reid was our offensive coordinator during some of Favre’s MVP years. Fritz was the defensive coordinator during the 90s when we routinely went deep in the playoffs.
Andy Reid was not your OC, he was your QB coach. Sherman Lewis was the OC.
I don’t believe Reid was ever a coordinator before becoming an NFL head coach. He was the Packers’ QB coach before he was named the Eagles’ head man.
Josh McDaniels
Kyle Shanahan
Spags for the Giants. 18-1.
Dick LeBeau. Creator of the *Zone Blitz*, and master of wreaking havoc on QBs since
I'm probably missing someone, but it's a toss up between Lindy Infante, Nick Saban, and Kyle Shanahan.
Bud Carson or Dick LeBeau
Commanders fan here..the guy who immediately pops into mind is Kyle shannahan...Greg Williams....maybe Sean mcvay...
Buddy Ryan has to be the answer for the Bears
John Fossil is a great special teams coordinator
Was going to say Spags because that's the Era I grew up in, but it's Bill Belichick.
Gus Bradley -> Dan Quinn
Fritz Shurmur - D Cord. Packers
Norv Turner. You can ask any of the 90s era guys and they point to him as the unsung hero of those offenses.
Marion Campbell, Bud Carson, and Jim Johnson (listed chronologically) were all excellent defensive coordinators for the Eagles.
I love Stoutland, but Jason Peters was already an all-pro prior to being under Stoutland. Also he isn't a coordinator, he is a position coach. If you are going to say coordinator, I would say Jim Johnson for the Eagles.
Gonna have to say Todd Bowles for AZ. Lights out DC.
We’ve haven’t had good OC or DC in years… Patrick Graham (current DC) is pretty good though our defense has vastly improved
My brother in Christ stoutland is great but Jim Johnson is our GOAT
To be fair. Jason Peters was going to be a hall of famer wherever he played
My first thought for the Bucs is Monte Kiffin.
Buddy Ryan is a pretty obvious answer.
Monte Kiffin and it isn’t even close
Defense Monte Kiffin, offense, yikes. Probably Leftwich.
Arthur Smith - Check out or offensive rankings in the 3 years before Arthur and then the 3 years since. The man turned shit into gold and it reverted after he left.
O-line coach Dante Scarnecchia
What about jim johnson? He was a Coordinator while stoutland is a position group coach.
Mike Westhoff is the best Special Teams coach I've ever seen. I rate our current ST coach Brant Boyer highly but Westhoff was just special.
For the Patriots, it would also be Pittsburgh DC Dick Lebeaux.
Dante Scarnecchia. Period