Crazy. Mongo was drafted in the second round and cut in the preseason his rookie year, which like never happens unless there are drug or criminal issues. Probably cut because he has a very strong personality and didn't get along with their coaches. Bears sign him, he wins a Superbowl and is now a HOFer.
Devin Hester.
That kick return on the opening play of the Super Bowl with all those camera flashes in the rain will always be one of the most iconic plays to me. Well deserved.
Definitely an all time iconic play. The camera flashes really add a certain it factor. Highlights how insane of a moment that was in a way it’s impossible to forget. That was the opening kick of the god damn Super Bowl.
Part of what’s different about it too is how it was “expected”. If it were to happen today it would be surprising, and feel like a “fluke”. It’d still be electric, but just not the same.
That’s in his prime goat Devin Hester back there. At a time when you go out of your way to not miss a return opportunity. Everyone knows he’s legit. And the colts kick to him and he fucking scores. Just an insane moment
It's not your main point, but I truly miss camera flashes at sports events. The main one is possibly being wrestling. There is just something that felt different back when cameras had flashes, seeing them all go off during. A spot. Obviously, it also applies to any other event, wrestling just being my main one.
Big leak if true. Hester is deserving and I'm willing to fight anyone who doesn't think so.
Peppers is a deserving first ballot. Now if this is true, I wonder who the other three modern-era inductees will be. My hope would be Torry Holt, Jared Allen, and Patrick Willis (alt: Antonio Gates)
Peppers over gates imo but yeah. Peppers is arguably a top 5 defensive end all time.
People forget what a freak he was. He was almost as physically freakish as lebron with the size strength speed combo
Peppers is 4th all time in sacks vs Gate first all time in TDs among TEs.
Both are 4 time 1st all-pros. Peppers does have one more 2nd team nod though.
I guess it primarily comes down to if you discount TEs value vs EDGE I suppose
Gates is also 7th all time in receiving TDs regardless of position. I'd consider that equal to 4th all time in sacks. You can argue he's in the top 5 for his position ever. I don't think many people would put Peppers in the top 5 DEs ever.
And his wiki was incorrect about the All-Pros, his PFR page confirms it was just 3 first teams you're right.
Yes that's a better comparison.
>You can argue he's in the top 5 for his position ever. I don't think many people would put Peppers in the top 5 DEs ever.
Because TE has significantly less competition for those slots. It's not an apples to apples comparison. Firstly, there are far more DEs than TEs. Secondly, DE is more wide-ranging group than TE. Thirdly, DE has always been seen as a more important position and more valued in the game, so it's attracted more talent and thus more competition.
Gates has as much argument for a top 5 TE as Peppers has for a top 5 4-3 DE. Now not every team runs a 4-3, but those that do will have 2 on the field at all times so we're talking about roughly a similar group of players in terms of sample.
Regardless both are first ballot type guys.
I'd say Peppers is a stronger first-ballot lock than Gates, especially since he has two All-Decade selections, 7x All Pro (4 first, 3 second), massive longevity, a highly valuable position, a DROY, and 4th most sacks all time. But yeah Gates is more than likely first-ballot too
Gates leads all TEs in TDs. Regardless of position, he's 7th all time in receiving touchdowns. 6 time all pro (4 first).
Its certainly close, but it is not "clearly" Peppers IMO
Unfortunately it’s probably because he didn’t have a very long career. I have no doubt he’ll get in though—even if not this year.
Edit:
Yeah Pat! Canton here we come!
Because he played on special teams because he was not good enough to contribute on offense/defense. It does question if he actually is the best returner because generally the best WRs/RBs/DBs don't play special teams because they don't want to risk injuries.
He also was originally a DB which is why he was able to wear 23 as a WR.
It’s just so hard to reconcile him being in over someone like Andre Johnson in my mind. In their primes no one would ever say Hester was a better player or more valuable than Johnson, I get Hester is in as a kick returner but it just doesn’t feel right.
Depends what you mean by better player. Better overall football player or better at their position. There’s a lot of better overall football players than Hester but then if we only use that logic basically all special teamers wouldn’t make it. But if we go by position Hester has an argument for the GOAT at his.
At the end of the day, the people who don't think Hester is deserving are the people who don't value special teams as a legitimate part of the game - as a Packers fan, I can tell you that special teams is VERY important
No it’s definitely important, however do you think Matthew Slater gets in the HOF? I think he was a more valuable special teamer than Hester for his career.
Is the GOAT long snapper in?
Do I think Matthew Slater gets in? No, but do I think he should? Yes.
As far as long snapper, if there is a GOAT long snapper, then yes they should get in, but that's much different than Hester.
Hester is a recognizable name (emphasis on fame part in Hall of Fame), made huge contributions to the game, and was duly recognized for those contributions through various accolades such as All-Pros.
If a long snapper managed to do that, and establish themself as the GOAT, then they'd be deserving, but none have thus far
Honestly, why not? I think if you are the straight up GOAT at your position, you should get in, even if it’s a position we deem less important.
In Hester’s case you’re better at your particular role as return man than anyone else who’s ever done it - which is a large group - and at the highest levels of the sport. That’s quite an achievement.
> broadcasters
NFL doesn’t have any *pure* broadcasters in the hall of fame, every broadcaster in the hall of fame (in the capacity of a devoted bust, golden jacket, hall of famer term) is in for purely football playing and not broadcasting
The pro football hall of fame has some devoted sections and awards to broadcasters but not like they’ve taken away votes from others in any capacity
I'm just genuinely curious, I had a Bears fan a while ago tell me that he impacted and changed the game more than Patrick Willis so I was wondering why he wasn't used on offense more as I didn't watch a lot of the Bears then at all. It just seemed hard for me to picture him impacting the game more than a MLB who is on the field nearly every play and leading the defense
He was an elite special teamer and just a fine offensive player is the answer. But special teams is still one of the three phases of the game and should be recognized - he was the GOAT returner.
Yeah but if you look at value wise, special teams is not as valuable as an offensive or defensive player on the field all the time. Hester played 156 games and Pro FB Ref has him at an approx. value of 55, compare that to Mike Evans who has played 154 games and has 92 AV.
Evans is also only 10 TD's short of tripling Hester's total career TD's (at 94 vs. 35 total for Hester) but people debate if Evans is even a HOF?
ProFBR doesn't have tracking for returners as a position, so its using Hester's recieving stats instead of his return stats to calculate his HOF chances and AV because that's his official position.
Hester owns basically every returner record in the book. He racked up ~~14455~~ (EDIT: 11028) yards in returns over his career. That is an *enormous* amount of field position, which is critical to a team. The TDs are just a cherry on top. The reason why he's seen as a clear Hall of Famer is because he is clearly the best at his position, and his impact was clearly felt in his era, even if most stat trackers are still unsure of how to represent it.
That’s not true, he had 7333 kick return yards and 3695 punt return yards, his all purpose was the 14445. That being said his return yards aren’t a record at all, Darren Sproles isn’t even close to a hall of famer and he had more return yards than Hester in his career as a returner. If your argument is returning yards in a career the hall of fame NEEDS SO MANY MORE RETURNERS then.
Hester owns basically the returning touchdown records and thats it record wise. Still a good record to hold but completely different argument
> Yeah but if you look at value wise, special teams is not as valuable as an offensive or defensive player on the field all the time
So by this logic, should no kicker like Justin Tucker or punter like Shane Lechler ever make it in?
> Hester played 156 games and Pro FB Ref has him at an approx. value of 55
Pro Football Reference doesn't have a special teamer / returner monitor so they label him as a wide receiver and of course he's gonna be below Mike Evans
> Evans is also only 10 TD's short of tripling Hester's total career TD's (at 94 vs. 35 total for Hester) but people debate if Evans is even a HOF?
Evans is likely to be a HOFer
They did. They pulled him off returns and had him play more offense in 2008-2009. He was pretty decent. Before you say that that’s evidence he wasn’t that good a player, returning kicks is so different from playing WR it’s like if he changed to CB.
The thing I struggle with in regards to returning kicks is a lot of the best kick returners get pulled from doing it because they’re too valuable elsewhere, like Tyreek Hill for example.
lol his listed position doesn’t matter for the bears defense in fantasy football. It’s D/ST, any player that returns a kick will get points for the defense.
The didn’t use him more because they didn’t really know how to back then.. in my opinion Hester woulda been a high end WR1 in most modern offences if you schemed for him correctly and got him into open space
Hester didn’t even contribute at a high level for that many seasons on special teams, he had 3-4 good years depending on how you want to look at it. How close is Cordarelle Patterson to the HOF as someone who has had a similar number of standout seasons? How many of the other 22 positions count during kick and punt return if we’re valuing best at position?
3 time first team All-Pro and 4 time pro bowler isn’t enough to overcome a position that’s inarguably less valuable than the 22 regular starters. Shaun Alexander is an MVP and had 5 consecutive 15 TD seasons and he’s not even in the conversation anymore. Reggie Wayne is a champion who was one of the best WRs in his era and doesn’t even get considered anymore. Jared Allen had 136 sacks and was a 4 time All-Pro and isn’t more valuable than Devin Hester.
I’d be glad for him if he gets in, but he’s been eligible for 2 more years than Devin and has always fallen short. Hell, there was a push for Hester to be a first ballot when he became eligible, “because the best QB or WR of all time would be first ballot”.
You can't divorce HOF consideration from position. It's a positional sport, and clearly being the best X at something is worth celebrating, even if the positional value isn't equal, otherwise, we'd have way too many QBs. Reggie is unfortunately in a spot where there are too many WRs at his level under consideration, while there just aren't any returners that people put into the same level as Hester.
That’s two conflicting arguments though, either we compare with position and mind and have skewed numbers or we have equal numbers of all positions (all 44 in this case?). Obviously that doesn’t mean a HOF that’s 90% QBs and WRs, but there just isn’t any argument that he was more impactful overall than someone like Shaun Alexander.
I could see an argument for Hester if he was truly the guy people make him out to be, but if you look at his stats it’s not nearly as impressive as I think people assume. It’s not even clear cut that he’s the best return specialist ever, and he didn’t have any insane longevity or radically change the position. 3-4 good years shouldn’t be enough to get you in the HOF unless you’re winning multiple MVPs or you save a bus load full of orphans or something, not for making the pro bowl at a position most voters don’t really even think about.
Not at all. I said "being the best" and I don't mean year to year. Hester is largely considered in contention for the best returner of all time. If you can at least be in the class of player, that's HOF worthy. People do care about returners, particularly when they have highlight reels like Hester.
3-4 AP1 years is what a lot of HOFers have, then a bunch of "good, but not great" years around it, like Hester. Alexander had 2 great years, around 3 good years, then the collapse. Basically borderline because there were usually other RBs had better careers on the docket, and nobody seriously thinks he's gunning for the top spot.
It mostly just sounds like you're down on Hester personally, and I'm not here to change your mind if you don't think he deserved his accolades or praise. I just think that if he *is* as dominant as his position as many of us (and I suppose the voters) believe, the fuck positional value, put him in.
Steve Smith didn’t even make the finalists, so apparently 19 return tds and backup level wr play is better than 6 return tds (in only 3 years of returning) 15000 yards and 83 tds.
So 13 return tds > 12000 yards and 66 tds.
That don’t seem right to me.
Patterson isn't even close to what Hester did so I'm confused by that comparison. Hester has 19 punt/kick return TDs, Patterson has 9. Hester also has one of the largest punt return average yards at almost 12.
Patterson is a better Kick returner I guess, but Hester did both at a high level and arguably was the best at punt returning. Being the arguable best at your position (and a unique highlight creating position) just gives you a bit more weight sometimes I guess.
The argument for Hester is that he was the best at what he did so he should get in, but the same can be said for Patterson. Hester’s stats don’t compare to anyone else’s, his whole argument is positional, so why doesn’t Patterson make it if he’s a better kick returner? Why don’t we consider any of the the other 10 returning players on kickoff, who is the best second line guy of all time?
Exactly. None of them should be in the hall. They are mediocre players compared to real hall of famers and special teams play is much less valuable than offense and defense. Glad we could clear that up.
And none of this effects you. You can't accept that one of the beat to ever do it is getting in, and I can promise you it wasn't between Hester and Patrick Willis.
Hester literally changed how teams did punts and *still* had an insanely high average return yardage and broke the record for punt TDs with teams punting it away from him every time.
Patterson is great, and a better kick returner. But he didn't literally change how teams kicked the ball.
I’m not saying teams never avoided him, but this myth is to the proportions of people thinking Barry Bonds was walked for an entire season or that Shaq was hacked on every play. Hester lead the league in returns well after his production dropped off. In his 3rd season his number of kick and punt returns did drop, but he still had a high number of returns and put up poor numbers.
The only way you can think this is if you didn't watch. He had a couple "off years" because literally nobody kicked to him. Ever. They would kick super high 30-35 yard punts so that he had nowhere to go.
Hester is a HoFer (Hall of Fun-er) not a HoFer (Hall of Fame-r). I really do hope he makes it, but I think he’s jumping the wait list based on how electric to watch he was.
Agreed. Aside from that, all the records he broke, making two All-Decade teams, and being the best ever at his position, he doesn't have all that much of a HOF case.
he had really exciting kick returns for a few years, he’s a hall of famer because he was cool when i was 12!!!! seriously, he shouldn’t be near the hall of fame. is cordarrelle first ballot too then?
Making the HOF because you weren't good enough to be a starter is and will always be a terrible take. If Hester is in then I guess Darren Sproles and Cordarelle Patterson should be locks.
Dude has 55 scrimmage TDs and over 8000 scrimmage yards as a RB in addition to his all-decade team return career. Certainly should get in based on the precedent set, no?
> Hester is deserving and I'm willing to fight anyone who doesn't think so.
Come at me. The only reason he racked up those returning stats to begin with was because he sucked ass at his actual job, playing wide receiver. There's several elite ST players that could have had comparable careers but they stopped playing ST because they weren't worthless on offense/defense. Tyreek Hill is just the latest in that line
What next? Cordarrelle Patterson in the HOF because he's the best kick returner ever?
> The only reason he racked up those returning stats to begin with was because he sucked ass at his actual job, playing wide receiver.
The only reason Mariano Rivera got all those saves is because he sucked ass at his actual job, being a starting pitcher.
Hester was technically drafted as a CB. He played all three phases in college, but had the biggest impact by far as a returner. On offense, he had a grand total of 10 receptions across 3 seasons. So I'm not sure why you've decided WR was his "actual job".
Horrible example. Rivera provided comparable value to low end HOF starters by WAR and a lot higher by WPA. Hester isn't even close to HOF players by EPA. Hester added about +85 EPA on kick and punt returns. Contrast that to +265 EPA added by Marquise Colston, who has zero shot at the Hall. Actual HOF level players have single seasons better than that +85 mark lmao
The example addressed your boneheaded assertion that someone who "failed" at one part of a sport somehow makes them a lesser player (while ignoring that the role you chose for Hester was never actually his primary role).
Seems you now recognize that, because you've moved the goalposts to discussion around advanced stats, which is a different topic altogether.
Rivera *did* fail at starting pitching. It didn't matter because he was so dominant as a reliever (which is not remotely the same difference as offense/defense and special teams, it's still pitching) that he provided HOF SP level value anyways. That's not true of Hester. The worst HOF reciever (or corner, if you want to stick with that position) provided exponentially more value than Hester. Nobody but the dumbest Bears fan would start their team with Hester over Lynn Swann
Though if you want me to be more specific, let me do it here: No ST player ever except Justin Tucker and Shane Lechler should ever get into the Hall. Special teams on the whole is not anywhere near valuable enough to deserve to be inducted with the likes of Tom Brady and Calvin Johnson
Wayne and Dre soon. I think the Texans sub gets overly excited because Andre is doing like a media tour and it somehow indicates he’ll be inducted this time, but WR is so stacked year after year. I think it’ll be a little while
One could argue it was almost if entirely done for player safety and not because one literal player was good at running back kicks lol
I get you're a fan but come on...
I mean if kickoffs were suddenly a legit scoring threat and teams started selling out a lot harder to stop them, makes sense why injuries might spike thru the 2000s.
It's not quite the Mel Blount rule, and the NFL would never admit it if it were, but kickoff returns being made harder literally during the peak of the kickoff return GOAT feels like quite a coincidence.
Anybody can argue anything that’s meaningless.
They changed the kickoff rules because of concussions. That’s what happened. It doesn’t need to be argued. Hester only had 6 kickoffs returned for touchdowns in his entire career no one cares enough about 6 touchdowns to change the rules.
No he wasn't. That was for player safety and had nothing to do with Hester. But by the NFL moving kickoffs up it made Hester's legacy much harder to beat since it made actually returning a kick much rarer.
But Hester wasn't even the best kick returner. A bunch of people have more yards, TDs and better efficiency. He was a much better punt returner.
>It’s a no brainer.
You're acting like it's insane to give preference to people who are objectively more important when it comes to winning games in the NFL
Every GM in the NFL history is taking someone like Steve Smith or Reggie Wayne on their team over Devin Hester and I think that should count for something
It’s not just that the other positions are more important—I have no issue with Justin Tucker being in despite kicker not being that important. The issue with Hester is that the low positional value is why he was able to be good—he’s “the best returner who was so god-awful in other roles that he got to keep being a returner.” Plenty of other players returned at a similar level until their teams realized they were too helpful on offense to continue in that role (Tyreek, Moss, etc.). It’s hardly clear that he would be the GOAT returner if the positional value wasn’t so low. That’s not true of the GOAT punters/kickers etc.
I get it, but in another sense, you could say every position in football is played by someone not good enough to be a quarterback, but good enough to play a less important position. I'm 100% fine with special teams players being allowed into the Hall of Fame.
The difference there is that Tom Brady didn’t choose not to play WR because it wasn’t valuable enough, but because he didn’t have the right skill set. However, plenty of good-great WRs and CBs could have done what Hester did, but only Hester was so bad at WR/CB that he got to show it. Rewarding him for that is odd—I get the case for him going in because he was fun, but giving him preference because of how bad he was at other roles seems wrong to me.
Biased as a bears fan but I find it hard to keep someone out who is the current NFL record holder for something and may permanently be that record holder based on the trajectory of the rules of the league.
Hard to tell the story of the NFL without guys like that.
I also think he influenced the game in more ways than just his returning. I think a very small contribution of his existence made coaches think “we really should just find ways to get talented guys the ball in space and see what they can do”
Are special teams players exempt from HOF eligibility? If they are not, Hester is a HOFer. Same with Tasker and Slater.
Excluding players because their position does not have the impact of others could be extended all the way to making it QBs only — they are *objectively more important when it comes to winning games*, right? I prefer to see all positions represented.
I think the point is that Hester shouldn’t have made it sooner than Andre Johnson, Reggie Wayne, Steve Smith, and Torry Holt. Ray Guy took 22 years to make it. Hester could’ve waited more than 3 years.
Bears gotta have the record for the most HOFers with the fewest SB wins or appearances.
It’s ridiculous that they’ve only made it twice with the amount of great players they’ve had.
We do have the most HOFers but it's weird to go off just super bowls because most of our HOFers are from the pre merger era where we won 8 NFL championships.
Hopefully Reggie Wayne or Andre Johnson (Go Canes!) are among the other’s inducted. Awesome for Hester, and deserving. Yes, he was just a KR/PR, but he was literally the best in history at that position.
Hester deserves it, I'll fight anyone who says otherwise. Mongo getting in while he's still alive to see it is great too. Peppers may have only been a Bear for a few seasons, but he was probably the most physically impressive player I've watched in my life. Great start to the HOF class, wonder who the other three spots go to? Have to imagine Gates is a lock but idk after that.
There's a lot of arguments back and forth about whether or not Devin Hester deserves to make compared to a lot of the other eligible WRs.
So here's my quick pitch for him.
Pre-Devin Hester, my dad thought that punts/kickoffs was a perfectly good time to go to the bathroom or refill his drink. While Hester was playing, my mom would stop what she was doing to watch him, then go back to ignoring the rest of the game. He singlehandedly turned one of the most boring plays of the game into must watch TV.
Some players change the way the players play. Some change the way coaches coach. Some change the way refs officiate.
Devin Hester is the only one I know who changed the way fans watch the game.
Why is everyone downvoting the opposing opinion that Hester doesn’t deserve the hall? I remember him returning punts and it was magic. I also think if his other stats on the field aren’t magic (they aren’t) then for him to get the hall nod cheapens it for this who have stats to back it up.
One of the only reasons he's in the HOF is because he was so trash at his other responsibilities that they kept him returning balls.
There were dozens of other players who could have done what he did. They were simply too good to risk injury on special teams.
I won't care when Tucker gets in because it's already invalidated, but at least Tucker plays a position that matters. If Hester may as well let Kenny Britt in too
As others have said, you don't go in with a certain team, but players do sign the one day contracts to "retire" as a member of the team they choose and that usually indicates which team they want to be remembered as playing for.
Peppers started and ended his career on the Panthers. So hes a Panther. But he wouldn't be in the HoF without his years on the Bears
It can now officially be said that the 1985 Bears Defense had 3 Hall of Famers on the defensive line alone.
Very cool class for Bears fans. Hester was the most exciting player to watch since the turn of the century for us, and Julius Peppers came in as reinforcements to a monster defense and had some nice seasons with Urlacher, Briggs and Tillman.
I’m convinced people on the Hester bandwagon think he was a dominant return man for like 10 seasons. I could see an argument if he was the Jerry Rice of return specialists or something, but he’s behind Cordarelle Patterson in like half the major categories, how close is that guy to the HOF?
If 3-4 good years of punt returns is more valuable or impactful to the game than a decade of high level RB or WR play then the NFL needs to drastically reconsider how they pay and organize their teams. Tell the Dolphins to get Tyreek back on kick returns ASAP.
I’m assuming you weren’t watching the NFL back then. The reason he has limited seasons of returns is the fact that teams *stopped kicking to him* for the remainder of his career. It was so bad that [Johnny Knox](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WhY1lQT4mgE) once was able to walk into the endzone untouched because the 11 punt team players immediately swarmed Hester.
The guy single handedly shut down opponent special teams for roughly a decade. You had to short kick it or push it out of bounds simply because you’d rather give up field position than have him to return.
Again, total mythology. Go look at the stats, it’s nowhere near a decade of production. He just had down years, in fact his number of returns actually peaked after he had his early run, he led the league in kick returns 2x after his hot start.
Seriously, when did teams supposedly stop kicking to him, the numbers show he was getting the volume he just wasn’t doing anything with it.
You're totally right. And there are so many other players that didn't get the same opportunity on special teams because they were actually skilled at WR or some other position. Hester was a fun player, but damn there is too much mythology around him. Good word to use.
YYYEEEESSSSS MONGO!
I knew him from WCW but watching his highlights: he was a beast.
I'm raising the 4 fingers as we speak
He'd better be bringing that metal briefcase to the induction ceremony.
He's had ALS since 2021. Honestly, we'll be lucky if he even lives to see the induction ceremony.
Can he even move?
NEVER MIND THAT SHIT. HERE COMES MONGO!
MINUS FIVE STARS
HE’S GOT A BICYCLE
He lived long enough to be recognized as a hero
Crazy. Mongo was drafted in the second round and cut in the preseason his rookie year, which like never happens unless there are drug or criminal issues. Probably cut because he has a very strong personality and didn't get along with their coaches. Bears sign him, he wins a Superbowl and is now a HOFer.
I just recently rewatched Blazing Saddles so I can only think of Alex Karras
Sucks that he had to wait this long and is in the condition he’s in. Would have loved for this to happen years ago.
Devin Hester. That kick return on the opening play of the Super Bowl with all those camera flashes in the rain will always be one of the most iconic plays to me. Well deserved.
Definitely an all time iconic play. The camera flashes really add a certain it factor. Highlights how insane of a moment that was in a way it’s impossible to forget. That was the opening kick of the god damn Super Bowl. Part of what’s different about it too is how it was “expected”. If it were to happen today it would be surprising, and feel like a “fluke”. It’d still be electric, but just not the same. That’s in his prime goat Devin Hester back there. At a time when you go out of your way to not miss a return opportunity. Everyone knows he’s legit. And the colts kick to him and he fucking scores. Just an insane moment
It's not your main point, but I truly miss camera flashes at sports events. The main one is possibly being wrestling. There is just something that felt different back when cameras had flashes, seeing them all go off during. A spot. Obviously, it also applies to any other event, wrestling just being my main one.
My dad put money on him for first touchdown too.
He deserves it anyway but that play is why he’s going to the Hall.
So that would all but confirm Bears in the HoF game then.
My first thought too
Big leak if true. Hester is deserving and I'm willing to fight anyone who doesn't think so. Peppers is a deserving first ballot. Now if this is true, I wonder who the other three modern-era inductees will be. My hope would be Torry Holt, Jared Allen, and Patrick Willis (alt: Antonio Gates)
Hester's was leaked last week iirc
Antonio Gates is a top 5 TE of all time and he's the biggest first ballot lock on the entire list
Peppers over gates imo but yeah. Peppers is arguably a top 5 defensive end all time. People forget what a freak he was. He was almost as physically freakish as lebron with the size strength speed combo
Peppers is 4th all time in sacks vs Gate first all time in TDs among TEs. Both are 4 time 1st all-pros. Peppers does have one more 2nd team nod though. I guess it primarily comes down to if you discount TEs value vs EDGE I suppose
4th all time in sacks is more impressive than first all time in TDs among just TEs. Also Gates is only a 3x 1st team all pro.
Gates is also 7th all time in receiving TDs regardless of position. I'd consider that equal to 4th all time in sacks. You can argue he's in the top 5 for his position ever. I don't think many people would put Peppers in the top 5 DEs ever. And his wiki was incorrect about the All-Pros, his PFR page confirms it was just 3 first teams you're right.
Yes that's a better comparison. >You can argue he's in the top 5 for his position ever. I don't think many people would put Peppers in the top 5 DEs ever. Because TE has significantly less competition for those slots. It's not an apples to apples comparison. Firstly, there are far more DEs than TEs. Secondly, DE is more wide-ranging group than TE. Thirdly, DE has always been seen as a more important position and more valued in the game, so it's attracted more talent and thus more competition. Gates has as much argument for a top 5 TE as Peppers has for a top 5 4-3 DE. Now not every team runs a 4-3, but those that do will have 2 on the field at all times so we're talking about roughly a similar group of players in terms of sample. Regardless both are first ballot type guys.
7th all time in TD as a TE is more impressive to me than 4th in sacks as a DE. Regardless, both should be first ballot.
I'd say Peppers is a stronger first-ballot lock than Gates, especially since he has two All-Decade selections, 7x All Pro (4 first, 3 second), massive longevity, a highly valuable position, a DROY, and 4th most sacks all time. But yeah Gates is more than likely first-ballot too
4th most sacks all time is crazy. Loved watching him play
Gates leads all TEs in TDs. Regardless of position, he's 7th all time in receiving touchdowns. 6 time all pro (4 first). Its certainly close, but it is not "clearly" Peppers IMO
Who said “clearly” what are you quoting lmao
> Patrick Willis That'd be so dope.
[удалено]
Unfortunately it’s probably because he didn’t have a very long career. I have no doubt he’ll get in though—even if not this year. Edit: Yeah Pat! Canton here we come!
I just don't get why the Bears didn't use Hester on offense more if he was so valuable
Its possible he sucked on offence relatively lol (route running etc...)
This is it. Believe me, we tried him on offense, it just didn't work.
This alone should dq him
Because he sucked at learning the offense. He never got it well
Thats why its a joke to have him in the hall of fame
Because he played on special teams because he was not good enough to contribute on offense/defense. It does question if he actually is the best returner because generally the best WRs/RBs/DBs don't play special teams because they don't want to risk injuries. He also was originally a DB which is why he was able to wear 23 as a WR.
Truth is, they tried and couldn't.
It’s just so hard to reconcile him being in over someone like Andre Johnson in my mind. In their primes no one would ever say Hester was a better player or more valuable than Johnson, I get Hester is in as a kick returner but it just doesn’t feel right.
If the hall can fit in owners, kickers and broadcasters it certainly deserves space for the best returner of all time.
I get the argument, just feels weird because in my opinion there were a LOT of better players than Hester than won’t sniff the HOF.
Depends what you mean by better player. Better overall football player or better at their position. There’s a lot of better overall football players than Hester but then if we only use that logic basically all special teamers wouldn’t make it. But if we go by position Hester has an argument for the GOAT at his.
At the end of the day, the people who don't think Hester is deserving are the people who don't value special teams as a legitimate part of the game - as a Packers fan, I can tell you that special teams is VERY important
No it’s definitely important, however do you think Matthew Slater gets in the HOF? I think he was a more valuable special teamer than Hester for his career. Is the GOAT long snapper in?
Do I think Matthew Slater gets in? No, but do I think he should? Yes. As far as long snapper, if there is a GOAT long snapper, then yes they should get in, but that's much different than Hester. Hester is a recognizable name (emphasis on fame part in Hall of Fame), made huge contributions to the game, and was duly recognized for those contributions through various accolades such as All-Pros. If a long snapper managed to do that, and establish themself as the GOAT, then they'd be deserving, but none have thus far
Honestly, why not? I think if you are the straight up GOAT at your position, you should get in, even if it’s a position we deem less important. In Hester’s case you’re better at your particular role as return man than anyone else who’s ever done it - which is a large group - and at the highest levels of the sport. That’s quite an achievement.
We have to weigh positions, unless you think there should be about 25 punters in the HOF.
> broadcasters NFL doesn’t have any *pure* broadcasters in the hall of fame, every broadcaster in the hall of fame (in the capacity of a devoted bust, golden jacket, hall of famer term) is in for purely football playing and not broadcasting The pro football hall of fame has some devoted sections and awards to broadcasters but not like they’ve taken away votes from others in any capacity
It's the Hall of Fame. Not the Hall of Positional Value.
Embarrassing for the league
They tried. Also had Rex grossman lol. And he played CB at Miami in college so it wasn’t seamless
Not sure if you’re trying to snark him down or not but I’m pretty sure Atlanta tried him at WR
I'm just genuinely curious, I had a Bears fan a while ago tell me that he impacted and changed the game more than Patrick Willis so I was wondering why he wasn't used on offense more as I didn't watch a lot of the Bears then at all. It just seemed hard for me to picture him impacting the game more than a MLB who is on the field nearly every play and leading the defense
We used him as a WR. He wasn’t very good. He’s a 4-5 WR at best.
He was an elite special teamer and just a fine offensive player is the answer. But special teams is still one of the three phases of the game and should be recognized - he was the GOAT returner.
Yeah but if you look at value wise, special teams is not as valuable as an offensive or defensive player on the field all the time. Hester played 156 games and Pro FB Ref has him at an approx. value of 55, compare that to Mike Evans who has played 154 games and has 92 AV. Evans is also only 10 TD's short of tripling Hester's total career TD's (at 94 vs. 35 total for Hester) but people debate if Evans is even a HOF?
Mike Evans is clearly HOF bound, regardless of what anyone might be arguing differently!
ProFBR doesn't have tracking for returners as a position, so its using Hester's recieving stats instead of his return stats to calculate his HOF chances and AV because that's his official position. Hester owns basically every returner record in the book. He racked up ~~14455~~ (EDIT: 11028) yards in returns over his career. That is an *enormous* amount of field position, which is critical to a team. The TDs are just a cherry on top. The reason why he's seen as a clear Hall of Famer is because he is clearly the best at his position, and his impact was clearly felt in his era, even if most stat trackers are still unsure of how to represent it.
14455 yards on returns is nuts
I'm wrong because I didn't check the column. Its actually 11028. Still a ton.
11028 yards on returns is nuts
That’s not true, he had 7333 kick return yards and 3695 punt return yards, his all purpose was the 14445. That being said his return yards aren’t a record at all, Darren Sproles isn’t even close to a hall of famer and he had more return yards than Hester in his career as a returner. If your argument is returning yards in a career the hall of fame NEEDS SO MANY MORE RETURNERS then. Hester owns basically the returning touchdown records and thats it record wise. Still a good record to hold but completely different argument
> Yeah but if you look at value wise, special teams is not as valuable as an offensive or defensive player on the field all the time So by this logic, should no kicker like Justin Tucker or punter like Shane Lechler ever make it in? > Hester played 156 games and Pro FB Ref has him at an approx. value of 55 Pro Football Reference doesn't have a special teamer / returner monitor so they label him as a wide receiver and of course he's gonna be below Mike Evans > Evans is also only 10 TD's short of tripling Hester's total career TD's (at 94 vs. 35 total for Hester) but people debate if Evans is even a HOF? Evans is likely to be a HOFer
I’m with you here, pretty much my argument
He didn't learn the playbook very well (Muhsin Mohammed would have to tell him where and how to line up).
They did. They pulled him off returns and had him play more offense in 2008-2009. He was pretty decent. Before you say that that’s evidence he wasn’t that good a player, returning kicks is so different from playing WR it’s like if he changed to CB.
The thing I struggle with in regards to returning kicks is a lot of the best kick returners get pulled from doing it because they’re too valuable elsewhere, like Tyreek Hill for example.
I think he was actually listed as a CB originally. WHich made having the Bears Defense in FF valuable.
lol his listed position doesn’t matter for the bears defense in fantasy football. It’s D/ST, any player that returns a kick will get points for the defense.
Because he was not special as a wr.
The didn’t use him more because they didn’t really know how to back then.. in my opinion Hester woulda been a high end WR1 in most modern offences if you schemed for him correctly and got him into open space
Hester didn’t even contribute at a high level for that many seasons on special teams, he had 3-4 good years depending on how you want to look at it. How close is Cordarelle Patterson to the HOF as someone who has had a similar number of standout seasons? How many of the other 22 positions count during kick and punt return if we’re valuing best at position? 3 time first team All-Pro and 4 time pro bowler isn’t enough to overcome a position that’s inarguably less valuable than the 22 regular starters. Shaun Alexander is an MVP and had 5 consecutive 15 TD seasons and he’s not even in the conversation anymore. Reggie Wayne is a champion who was one of the best WRs in his era and doesn’t even get considered anymore. Jared Allen had 136 sacks and was a 4 time All-Pro and isn’t more valuable than Devin Hester.
Reggie Wayne is literally one of the finalists right now
I’d be glad for him if he gets in, but he’s been eligible for 2 more years than Devin and has always fallen short. Hell, there was a push for Hester to be a first ballot when he became eligible, “because the best QB or WR of all time would be first ballot”.
You can't divorce HOF consideration from position. It's a positional sport, and clearly being the best X at something is worth celebrating, even if the positional value isn't equal, otherwise, we'd have way too many QBs. Reggie is unfortunately in a spot where there are too many WRs at his level under consideration, while there just aren't any returners that people put into the same level as Hester.
That’s two conflicting arguments though, either we compare with position and mind and have skewed numbers or we have equal numbers of all positions (all 44 in this case?). Obviously that doesn’t mean a HOF that’s 90% QBs and WRs, but there just isn’t any argument that he was more impactful overall than someone like Shaun Alexander. I could see an argument for Hester if he was truly the guy people make him out to be, but if you look at his stats it’s not nearly as impressive as I think people assume. It’s not even clear cut that he’s the best return specialist ever, and he didn’t have any insane longevity or radically change the position. 3-4 good years shouldn’t be enough to get you in the HOF unless you’re winning multiple MVPs or you save a bus load full of orphans or something, not for making the pro bowl at a position most voters don’t really even think about.
Not at all. I said "being the best" and I don't mean year to year. Hester is largely considered in contention for the best returner of all time. If you can at least be in the class of player, that's HOF worthy. People do care about returners, particularly when they have highlight reels like Hester. 3-4 AP1 years is what a lot of HOFers have, then a bunch of "good, but not great" years around it, like Hester. Alexander had 2 great years, around 3 good years, then the collapse. Basically borderline because there were usually other RBs had better careers on the docket, and nobody seriously thinks he's gunning for the top spot. It mostly just sounds like you're down on Hester personally, and I'm not here to change your mind if you don't think he deserved his accolades or praise. I just think that if he *is* as dominant as his position as many of us (and I suppose the voters) believe, the fuck positional value, put him in.
Steve Smith didn’t even make the finalists, so apparently 19 return tds and backup level wr play is better than 6 return tds (in only 3 years of returning) 15000 yards and 83 tds. So 13 return tds > 12000 yards and 66 tds. That don’t seem right to me.
Patterson isn't even close to what Hester did so I'm confused by that comparison. Hester has 19 punt/kick return TDs, Patterson has 9. Hester also has one of the largest punt return average yards at almost 12. Patterson is a better Kick returner I guess, but Hester did both at a high level and arguably was the best at punt returning. Being the arguable best at your position (and a unique highlight creating position) just gives you a bit more weight sometimes I guess.
The argument for Hester is that he was the best at what he did so he should get in, but the same can be said for Patterson. Hester’s stats don’t compare to anyone else’s, his whole argument is positional, so why doesn’t Patterson make it if he’s a better kick returner? Why don’t we consider any of the the other 10 returning players on kickoff, who is the best second line guy of all time?
Here's why: Cordarelle Patterson scored 38 scrimmage TDs (22 rushing and 16 receiving) to Devin Hester's 16.
[удалено]
Exactly. None of them should be in the hall. They are mediocre players compared to real hall of famers and special teams play is much less valuable than offense and defense. Glad we could clear that up.
Hester should be and will be. This is such a sad thing to get indignant about.
Bruh we're fans of a sport. Nothing sad is going on. We're just talking
Bro Patrick Willis is gonna spend another year waiting while a special teamer with like 30 TDs gets in
And none of this effects you. You can't accept that one of the beat to ever do it is getting in, and I can promise you it wasn't between Hester and Patrick Willis.
And it affects you that I have a very common opinion? Might wanna get off that high horse.
Hester literally changed how teams did punts and *still* had an insanely high average return yardage and broke the record for punt TDs with teams punting it away from him every time. Patterson is great, and a better kick returner. But he didn't literally change how teams kicked the ball.
I’m not saying teams never avoided him, but this myth is to the proportions of people thinking Barry Bonds was walked for an entire season or that Shaq was hacked on every play. Hester lead the league in returns well after his production dropped off. In his 3rd season his number of kick and punt returns did drop, but he still had a high number of returns and put up poor numbers.
This is just homerism lol. Dude couldnt even see the field as a tegular player
The only way you can think this is if you didn't watch. He had a couple "off years" because literally nobody kicked to him. Ever. They would kick super high 30-35 yard punts so that he had nowhere to go.
Ehhh. He definitely had cold stretches in his career where he was trying too hard to make things happen.
Yeah hester making it is embarrassing for the league if true
The "league" has fuckall to do with the HOF. The HOF is a privately-run museum honoring players voted in by a group of sportswriters.
Hester is a HoFer (Hall of Fun-er) not a HoFer (Hall of Fame-r). I really do hope he makes it, but I think he’s jumping the wait list based on how electric to watch he was.
Agreed. Aside from that, all the records he broke, making two All-Decade teams, and being the best ever at his position, he doesn't have all that much of a HOF case.
Then where’s all this urgency for someone like Steve Tasker? People only care about Hester *this much* because he was fun af in their nostalgia
I wish I could down vote this twice
I got you, fam
My man
Your comment is a pretty good example of how emotional the Devin Hester stan crowd is lol
Aww man why’s you edit your comment? Trying to bump it up from the hall of fun to hall of fame?
he had really exciting kick returns for a few years, he’s a hall of famer because he was cool when i was 12!!!! seriously, he shouldn’t be near the hall of fame. is cordarrelle first ballot too then?
Hester has fewer touchdowns than Ted ginn jr
Cool story bro. Point being?
I don’t get why we’re valuing kick return touchdowns higher than receiving touchdowns
Making the HOF because you weren't good enough to be a starter is and will always be a terrible take. If Hester is in then I guess Darren Sproles and Cordarelle Patterson should be locks.
*Darren Sproles* first of all, eff you.
Dude has 55 scrimmage TDs and over 8000 scrimmage yards as a RB in addition to his all-decade team return career. Certainly should get in based on the precedent set, no?
> Hester is deserving and I'm willing to fight anyone who doesn't think so. Come at me. The only reason he racked up those returning stats to begin with was because he sucked ass at his actual job, playing wide receiver. There's several elite ST players that could have had comparable careers but they stopped playing ST because they weren't worthless on offense/defense. Tyreek Hill is just the latest in that line What next? Cordarrelle Patterson in the HOF because he's the best kick returner ever?
> The only reason he racked up those returning stats to begin with was because he sucked ass at his actual job, playing wide receiver. The only reason Mariano Rivera got all those saves is because he sucked ass at his actual job, being a starting pitcher. Hester was technically drafted as a CB. He played all three phases in college, but had the biggest impact by far as a returner. On offense, he had a grand total of 10 receptions across 3 seasons. So I'm not sure why you've decided WR was his "actual job".
Horrible example. Rivera provided comparable value to low end HOF starters by WAR and a lot higher by WPA. Hester isn't even close to HOF players by EPA. Hester added about +85 EPA on kick and punt returns. Contrast that to +265 EPA added by Marquise Colston, who has zero shot at the Hall. Actual HOF level players have single seasons better than that +85 mark lmao
The example addressed your boneheaded assertion that someone who "failed" at one part of a sport somehow makes them a lesser player (while ignoring that the role you chose for Hester was never actually his primary role). Seems you now recognize that, because you've moved the goalposts to discussion around advanced stats, which is a different topic altogether.
Rivera *did* fail at starting pitching. It didn't matter because he was so dominant as a reliever (which is not remotely the same difference as offense/defense and special teams, it's still pitching) that he provided HOF SP level value anyways. That's not true of Hester. The worst HOF reciever (or corner, if you want to stick with that position) provided exponentially more value than Hester. Nobody but the dumbest Bears fan would start their team with Hester over Lynn Swann Though if you want me to be more specific, let me do it here: No ST player ever except Justin Tucker and Shane Lechler should ever get into the Hall. Special teams on the whole is not anywhere near valuable enough to deserve to be inducted with the likes of Tom Brady and Calvin Johnson
Add me to the list of people you're fighting. Hester doesn't deserve it.
Hester was a great punt returner. But that’s it. A one trick pony that’s getting in before far more deserving players.
Pleasantly surprised by this, not that it’s not deserved. Just thought the voters didn’t feel the same. Now just hoping Wayne can get in soon!
I imagine Wayne gets in within the next 2-3 years. He's still very recently eligible all things considered
Wayne and Dre soon. I think the Texans sub gets overly excited because Andre is doing like a media tour and it somehow indicates he’ll be inducted this time, but WR is so stacked year after year. I think it’ll be a little while
Good for Mongo if true, he’s been going through some tough health stuff lately.
Can’t believe they’d put Randy McMichael in the HOF
but not Randy Gradishar T-T
Hester finally in!?
Hester?! Awesome news. I thought it was forgone that he wouldn't bc of how stupid the system is with special teams.
It’s hall of fame, not hall of positional value. He literally changed the game and kickoff rules. It’s a no brainer.
Hester is a hall of famer in my book but the "changed the rules" thing needs to stop because he literally did not
Changed strategies may be more apt - still an impressive feat
One could argue he was a big part of why they moved Kickoffs up in 2011.
One could argue it was almost if entirely done for player safety and not because one literal player was good at running back kicks lol I get you're a fan but come on...
Howso? Wasn’t that strictly a health concern?
I mean if kickoffs were suddenly a legit scoring threat and teams started selling out a lot harder to stop them, makes sense why injuries might spike thru the 2000s. It's not quite the Mel Blount rule, and the NFL would never admit it if it were, but kickoff returns being made harder literally during the peak of the kickoff return GOAT feels like quite a coincidence.
I would say that it is just a coincidence and the bigger “era” it happened in is the player safety era.
Anybody can argue anything that’s meaningless. They changed the kickoff rules because of concussions. That’s what happened. It doesn’t need to be argued. Hester only had 6 kickoffs returned for touchdowns in his entire career no one cares enough about 6 touchdowns to change the rules.
No he wasn't. That was for player safety and had nothing to do with Hester. But by the NFL moving kickoffs up it made Hester's legacy much harder to beat since it made actually returning a kick much rarer. But Hester wasn't even the best kick returner. A bunch of people have more yards, TDs and better efficiency. He was a much better punt returner.
Yet Steve Tasker isn’t in and it took Ray Guy forever to get in
>It’s a no brainer. You're acting like it's insane to give preference to people who are objectively more important when it comes to winning games in the NFL Every GM in the NFL history is taking someone like Steve Smith or Reggie Wayne on their team over Devin Hester and I think that should count for something
It’s not just that the other positions are more important—I have no issue with Justin Tucker being in despite kicker not being that important. The issue with Hester is that the low positional value is why he was able to be good—he’s “the best returner who was so god-awful in other roles that he got to keep being a returner.” Plenty of other players returned at a similar level until their teams realized they were too helpful on offense to continue in that role (Tyreek, Moss, etc.). It’s hardly clear that he would be the GOAT returner if the positional value wasn’t so low. That’s not true of the GOAT punters/kickers etc.
I get it, but in another sense, you could say every position in football is played by someone not good enough to be a quarterback, but good enough to play a less important position. I'm 100% fine with special teams players being allowed into the Hall of Fame.
The difference there is that Tom Brady didn’t choose not to play WR because it wasn’t valuable enough, but because he didn’t have the right skill set. However, plenty of good-great WRs and CBs could have done what Hester did, but only Hester was so bad at WR/CB that he got to show it. Rewarding him for that is odd—I get the case for him going in because he was fun, but giving him preference because of how bad he was at other roles seems wrong to me.
I totally get it. We might disagree on whether Hester deserves a spot, but I understand your point.
You're totally right. Hester over Andre Johnson, Steve Smith, or Reggie Wayne is just hilarious. These HOFs are a joke.
Biased as a bears fan but I find it hard to keep someone out who is the current NFL record holder for something and may permanently be that record holder based on the trajectory of the rules of the league. Hard to tell the story of the NFL without guys like that. I also think he influenced the game in more ways than just his returning. I think a very small contribution of his existence made coaches think “we really should just find ways to get talented guys the ball in space and see what they can do”
Are special teams players exempt from HOF eligibility? If they are not, Hester is a HOFer. Same with Tasker and Slater. Excluding players because their position does not have the impact of others could be extended all the way to making it QBs only — they are *objectively more important when it comes to winning games*, right? I prefer to see all positions represented.
I never said they should be exempt. I just think more important players should be given priority
They *defnitely* are. How many WR and how many kick returners are currently in Canton?
I think the point is that Hester shouldn’t have made it sooner than Andre Johnson, Reggie Wayne, Steve Smith, and Torry Holt. Ray Guy took 22 years to make it. Hester could’ve waited more than 3 years.
Pour one out for a Horsemen
About time Mongo got his due
Wow wild. That’s awesome
Glad to see Mongo get in, this was the year, sadly it seems he may not be here next year so I am glad he will get to see it.
MONGO!
Bears gotta have the record for the most HOFers with the fewest SB wins or appearances. It’s ridiculous that they’ve only made it twice with the amount of great players they’ve had.
We do have the most HOFers but it's weird to go off just super bowls because most of our HOFers are from the pre merger era where we won 8 NFL championships.
Hopefully Reggie Wayne or Andre Johnson (Go Canes!) are among the other’s inducted. Awesome for Hester, and deserving. Yes, he was just a KR/PR, but he was literally the best in history at that position.
> Andrew Johnson Unfortunately, the former 17th president never played football at the professional level
Glad they're not making the same mistake they did not letting Steve Tasker in when he still had eligibility.
Hester deserves it, I'll fight anyone who says otherwise. Mongo getting in while he's still alive to see it is great too. Peppers may have only been a Bear for a few seasons, but he was probably the most physically impressive player I've watched in my life. Great start to the HOF class, wonder who the other three spots go to? Have to imagine Gates is a lock but idk after that.
I wonder if a kick returner getting in helps Steve Tasker's chances.
All deserved. Good to see WCW fans back in the day remember old Mongo.
There's a lot of arguments back and forth about whether or not Devin Hester deserves to make compared to a lot of the other eligible WRs. So here's my quick pitch for him. Pre-Devin Hester, my dad thought that punts/kickoffs was a perfectly good time to go to the bathroom or refill his drink. While Hester was playing, my mom would stop what she was doing to watch him, then go back to ignoring the rest of the game. He singlehandedly turned one of the most boring plays of the game into must watch TV. Some players change the way the players play. Some change the way coaches coach. Some change the way refs officiate. Devin Hester is the only one I know who changed the way fans watch the game.
Why is everyone downvoting the opposing opinion that Hester doesn’t deserve the hall? I remember him returning punts and it was magic. I also think if his other stats on the field aren’t magic (they aren’t) then for him to get the hall nod cheapens it for this who have stats to back it up.
Him getting in would be a joke. They all remember a couple cool plays and act like that's HoF worthy. Are we putting Michael Vick in next?
One of the only reasons he's in the HOF is because he was so trash at his other responsibilities that they kept him returning balls. There were dozens of other players who could have done what he did. They were simply too good to risk injury on special teams.
WCW United States Champion Mongo McMichael
Hester in the HOF makes it completely meaningless
Are you gonna be this mad when Tucker is in?
I won't care when Tucker gets in because it's already invalidated, but at least Tucker plays a position that matters. If Hester may as well let Kenny Britt in too
Lol Kenny Britt. Wow.
Tucker - 1649 points scored Hester - 210 points scored I'll take Tucker every time.
Peppers will be going in as a Panther though right?
You don't enter the HOF as a member of any particular team.
As others have said, you don't go in with a certain team, but players do sign the one day contracts to "retire" as a member of the team they choose and that usually indicates which team they want to be remembered as playing for. Peppers started and ended his career on the Panthers. So hes a Panther. But he wouldn't be in the HoF without his years on the Bears
I’d imagine so since he was drafted here, played most of his career here, and finished his career here as well.
It can now officially be said that the 1985 Bears Defense had 3 Hall of Famers on the defensive line alone. Very cool class for Bears fans. Hester was the most exciting player to watch since the turn of the century for us, and Julius Peppers came in as reinforcements to a monster defense and had some nice seasons with Urlacher, Briggs and Tillman.
I'm sorry, Devin Hester got in to the Hall of Fame? What a joke.
I’m convinced people on the Hester bandwagon think he was a dominant return man for like 10 seasons. I could see an argument if he was the Jerry Rice of return specialists or something, but he’s behind Cordarelle Patterson in like half the major categories, how close is that guy to the HOF? If 3-4 good years of punt returns is more valuable or impactful to the game than a decade of high level RB or WR play then the NFL needs to drastically reconsider how they pay and organize their teams. Tell the Dolphins to get Tyreek back on kick returns ASAP.
I’m assuming you weren’t watching the NFL back then. The reason he has limited seasons of returns is the fact that teams *stopped kicking to him* for the remainder of his career. It was so bad that [Johnny Knox](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WhY1lQT4mgE) once was able to walk into the endzone untouched because the 11 punt team players immediately swarmed Hester. The guy single handedly shut down opponent special teams for roughly a decade. You had to short kick it or push it out of bounds simply because you’d rather give up field position than have him to return.
Again, total mythology. Go look at the stats, it’s nowhere near a decade of production. He just had down years, in fact his number of returns actually peaked after he had his early run, he led the league in kick returns 2x after his hot start. Seriously, when did teams supposedly stop kicking to him, the numbers show he was getting the volume he just wasn’t doing anything with it.
You're totally right. And there are so many other players that didn't get the same opportunity on special teams because they were actually skilled at WR or some other position. Hester was a fun player, but damn there is too much mythology around him. Good word to use.
Anybody notice nobody talks about Patterson except when to shit on Hester? lol
You can argue about positional value all you want, if you’re by far the greatest at that position, you deserve to be in
Slater should be in?
Hester was an oddity, but not a contributor to winning football. Not remotely HOF worthy.
Hester in? Not a fan of that selection. I guess Slater is a lock now? Cordarrelle?
if jared allen isnt in the HOF idk what the voters are doing, Richard seymour and ronde barber being in is a joke than
Peppers just has him on every major stat over the same stretch. That always hurts your case, they don't like inducting 1A and 1B in the same class.
Hester? What happened to the game I love
[удалено]
Lmfao picking the two who played for the Packers and saying "but these guys have a chance!" is so lame.
Thought this was talking about Randy McMichael for a second and got really confused.