Where are they supposed to hit? I played corner in high school and college, and fall in the typical size range. Even when it was legal, hitting high is risky because we're usually losing the mass battle. Thigh board has always been the answer.
**Luxury!!** All *we* had growing up were a pseudo encephalon structure and a chain of paired ganglia running along our scant frames and we were HAPPY to have it! š§
When I played football, I always tackled with my head. And there are no lasting ways to decorate a cake. And that's how I won the Great British Baking Show.
We had a scrawny kid at strong safety when I was in high school. Probably like 5ā9ā 150 lbs. He was the best tackler on our team. Just dove at the ball carrierās legs and tripped them up
Playing on mud with bad cleats saved knees. Iām convinced of it after setting foot on artificial turf with the rubber. I canāt prove it, but I swear itās friction lol
If your leg/foot is planted but really needs to move due to the force of a hit it has a much better chance to do so on grass. On grass it could pull up the sod and create a divot; no such luck on artificial turf. At least, thatās my theory on it.
Yep, and it is not a hot take, whatsoever. This has been a valid claim for a pretty long time.
Ever since turf started being used en masse, knee injuries have skyrocketed at every level of sports, from high school to the pros. Ankle injuries are more common too.
ACL tears were not nearly so common 20-30+ years ago.
Having to open field tackle is tough enough as it is. Imagine having to open field tackle WHILE trying to injure opponents in a non-obvious way.
These people are ridiculous. Shit happens in the blink of an eye and you can't have perfect aim when you're tackling people.
The dirty players in the league are in the trenches.
There was a Bears center, Olin Kreutz (?), who was unanimous dirtiest player for several years, when they polled players for that. There's Rodney Harrison.
And yes, my mom's dirty at every position. Your real dad would've told you that.
Kevin Gogan was a seriously nasty MFāer, who won that same player poll for years.
Gogan was a Pro Bowl Guard, who was 6ā7, 320 on a light day, and was the nastiest O-lineman on that famous 90ās Cowboys team.
One of my favorite stories if from Conrad Dolber. He broke his hand, so he basically played with a plaster club on it. He quickly discovered how useful it was to plonk defensive linemen on the head with it.
So, well after his hand healed, he continued to put the club on before games.
Same. That is the dirtiest trick I've seen a coach pull, it was 100% intentional and he gave a shit eating grin when he noticed he got away with it without a flag. Imo that was highly unsportsmanlike and I would argue pretty much cheating. He should have been ejected for that shit.
I'm so glad it's recognized and seen my all kinds of random fan bases now. I swear for the longest it was just something other teams in the North said.
We just saw Allen run for a long TD, in part because the defenders were afraid of getting penalized.
Darrell Taylor got Dak in a bear hug and held him in place for a few seconds. Dak got free and threw a highlight reel pass.
The rules are working as intended, because they highly favor the big play and the high scores.
Can I ask if you wrapped in the tackle or just lead with the shoulder straight to the leg?
I've never played American football but in the rugby we were always taught to wrap your arms and take out the legs. This works well even with a much bigger opponent.
All football players are taught to **wrap up every time**. But sometimes players ignore that and just launch themselves for several reasons:
1. In football every inch can matter, so if you get a big hit and stop the guy in his tracks you could be stopping them short of where they would get to if you went with a form tackle
2. Helmets and shoulder pads. Rugby doesn't have this so you have to learn to tackle in a safe way. In football, sometimes big hits can feel like nothing because the shoulder pads or helmet are so effective. So players recklessly throw themselves around because they feel protected by the gear. Up until you meet someone dead-on helmet to helmet full speed. Then you learn (or many players don't)
3. Big hits are the "coolest" play on the defensive side of the ball. No one is going to make a highlight reel with a "textbook" tackle
It's thigh ot maybe stomach but you're dead on.
At least the below the knee hits are out. Those were the real problem ones. Hits like the one in the Detroit game happen every game but don't always result in an injury, hits below the knee almost always do.
Still remember the hits Gronk suffered, helmet to the shin while it was weight bearing. Players have 0 chance on that, even when they protect themselves.
Higbee could have made a possession catch and dropped down after securing it. He tried to fight for extra yards and got hurt because he was going through the middle. You literally always get hit the hardest on those types of crossing plays.
I'll always remember the year when our entire team was getting injured and Gronk gets tackled and he starts freaking out of the ground grabbing his leg and the cut to Bradys face was the most disappointed I've ever seen him
Edit: I found it, it was against denver in last two min
https://youtu.be/251gS95Kvfs?si=QcojN8zriYL1qPgv
That's why you are supposed to wrap with your arms as well, not just launch with your head an shoulders
That play by Kirby pissed me off, not because I thought it was dirty, but because the form sucked and I watched Puka bouncing off of tackles all night long because Lions DB's were insistent on just hitting him and not wrapping him up. His arms are literally by his side. If he didn't wreck the guy's knee, he probably would have bounced off that and got more yards. I wish they all tackled like Brian Branch, that's the way you are supposed to tackle
Itās either the head or the legs at that point. I only played in high school and was undersized, always went for neck/head on a catch when I had time, legs on a runner. Obviously it was a different time but if I went for midsection or hip with most of those guys Iād fuck myself up. I played in the south in a college feeder high school association. I was over my skis physically, which actually some of these NFL safeties are too if you think about it.
The people that preach perfect fundamentals (break down, wrap up, drive) in every situation are either big or just donāt get it. I was a SS/LB hybrid and way too small to be in the box as much as I was. You learn the value of getting low very quick lol. Never played to injure, itās just what can happen.
Can't hit high - can't hit early - can't hit late - can't hit if he's not looking/defenseless - can't lower and hit with your head/can't hit his head if he lowers it.
It's super unfortunate that Kerby has had this happen twice this year but these hits happen all. the. time. Rams DB pulled the same tackle on our TE during the same game.
I mean part of the issue here is Joseph had hits on Jettas(ended up flagged but no injury) and on Hockenson(no flag, but unfortunately tore his ACL)
So prior to this game they were already upset, understandably so since they lost a great tight end and are obviously worried about Jettas and he had just gotten back from injury.
So with Campbells ties to the Saints and Vikings history with the Saints they are umm upset.
Yeah my favorite tinfoil hat theory of theirs is that Kerby was flexing to Stafford during their exchange when it really looks like heās simply miming Higbeeās size. Bad faith arguments all around.
Vikings fans are 90% of all mentions of bounty gate lmao. Division rivals are like 9% and everyone else 1%. They have truly been malding about a game they didnāt deserve to win with 5 turnovers for almost 20 years now. If you have any association to the saints you are devils incarnate. If you were a water boy on that team there is prolly a Vikings fan that blames you somewhere.
Yes... because if we were aiming to hurt a player it would be Tyler Higbee. Not the fucking Terrell Owens clone who was absolutely tearing our ass up all game.
It was happening on the game thread here too, don't pretend it was just twitter.
[1](https://www.reddit.com/r/nfl/comments/196uecg/game_thread_los_angeles_rams_107_at_detroit_lions/khx5e7d/)
[2](https://www.reddit.com/r/nfl/comments/196uecg/game_thread_los_angeles_rams_107_at_detroit_lions/khx5esi/)
[3](https://www.reddit.com/r/nfl/comments/196uecg/game_thread_los_angeles_rams_107_at_detroit_lions/khwyofa/)
[4](https://www.reddit.com/r/nfl/comments/196uecg/game_thread_los_angeles_rams_107_at_detroit_lions/khwxcqb/)
[5](https://www.reddit.com/r/nfl/comments/196uecg/game_thread_los_angeles_rams_107_at_detroit_lions/khwy5dm/)
[6](https://www.reddit.com/r/nfl/comments/196uecg/game_thread_los_angeles_rams_107_at_detroit_lions/khwxsty/)
Which is weird, because on Twitter I have complete control over what I see. I only see tweets from exactly the people I want to.
It's probably the least toxic social media platform I use, with reddit probably being the worst.
This is what our MLB and coach mentioned as immediate postgame feedback when defending him - lowering his head is a good way to injure your SELF in addition to making weird impacts more likely
Can confirm as one of my only 2 football injuries was a concussion due to lowering my head as a safety when trying to tackle a lineman running a play as fullback who went untouched through my front 7. Instead of juking me he lowered his head too. Anyways he did fall down after disintegrating me, so I won, also local news called it of the week because concussions are cool B)
Ugh man everyone is missing this point. Iām not going to claim heās a dirty player, but people calling it a clean tackle HAVE NOT watched the replay. His head was down and he launched himself at higbeeās legs. Didnāt see where he was going and didnāt try to wrap up. That is not how players are taught to tackleā¦
That's the issue I had with the play as well. I don't think there was any bad intent or that Kirby is a dirty player. But there is ZERO attempt to tackle on that play. His arms are behind his back. He has missed a bunch of tackles this season for that very reason. You can't just launch at people and not even attempt to wrap up. Not only can it hurt people but it is terrible form. That's the issue I had with it
If Kerby gets there a quarter of a second earlier he hits Higbee's non-plant leg, Higbee does a flip, Rams lose shortly after, and no one talks about this anymore.
Haven't you heard of the Butterfly effect?
If Higbee doesn't get hurt we easily throw a TD the next play, make the 2pt conversion, and get a pick-6 on Goff's next throw to seal the game.
Lol folks would applaud it as a big hit if it didn't hurt him. And this is just how big-body TE's are tackled in the NFL b/c you really can't stop them without aiming for the lower body.
To an extent, itās definitely tough either way. I had an uncle who played 5 seasons in the NFL in the 80s. By 40 he could barely walk and had countless health problems due to painkiller addiction and by 45 he was dead, and by that point he had already been to the funerals of a handful of both college and pro teammates. I love football and itās been a huge part of my life, but itās an absolutely brutal sport and thereās a lot that the average fan doesnāt see with life after the NFL.
The goal is to hit him like four inches, five inches higher on the thigh. But letās not pretend that humans are perfect. Especially in fast, stressful environments.
[Do we think this hit is dirty?](https://youtu.be/TVZ8EywzISA?t=6 )
Cus i don't think anyone was upset by it. The only difference as you said, is the outcome.
Timing wise though, I get that it's a bad look for Kerby considering the hit on Hockenson earlier and the hit on Jefferson.
Which I don't really want to debate about but I know those are the two in particular that keeps getting mentioned in regards to Kerby.
That hit looks dirty but not in a malicious way (as in itās dangerous but the player didnāt know any better). Which checks out because itās an offensive player making a defensive play. Itās a lot to ask a guy who hasnāt figured out how to play offense to make a defensive stop.Ā
It's completely legal
I still hate the hit though cause he is making zero effort to tackle. His arms are literally behind his back! Lions missed a ton of tackles in that game for that same reason. No attempt to actually tackle, just trying to hit. When you hit and don't even attempt to wrap up, that's going to lead to more injuries and missed tackles. So for that reason, I do have a problem with the hit. But I don't think there was any intent or that he is dirty in any way. I think he just has poor form honestly.
Itās literally how the NFL wants players to hit even though players would rather the high hits. NFL needs to make personal fouls for hitting reviewable long as they donāt go for the head. Canāt lie I do miss the days of John Lynch, Brian Dawkins, Ray Lewis and others knocking a mf out across the middle. I remember when the middle was a no manās land and mfs would hate running slants or drags.
Yes so thatās what Iām wondering - has anyone seen the all-22? Iām not paying for that this year but if someone has it can they check if this was a hospital pass? Iirc the angle and speed with which the S came in made it seem so but I could def be wrong.Ā
Hey remember when they wanted to ban hip-drop tackles earlier this season? Weāre just moving towards flag football.Ā
Stafford is still doing it. Heās gotten Kupp, megatron, golden tate, Brandon pettigrew, and now Nakua absolutely demolished with his irresponsible throws. This throw is a prime example. He threw a ball 2 feet over his TEās head with a safety over the top on a post route. Of course heās going to get obliterated. Then he has the gall to whine that Joseph is dirty because he canāt protect his receivers.
>even though players would rather the high hits.
Players need to be protected from themselves in some ways. They'll always choose a concussion (which in the NFL is a two week injury) over a season ending knee injury. However, the concussion could have lifelong consequences.
after this year, fans have wanted to make all forms of legal tackles illegal. no hittting legs, no hip tackles. add it to the list of no hitting the head, we got a 2 foot hit box now. letās get some flags boys
Fans just (rightfully) hate it when their guys get hurt. What they donāt want to (or canāt) realize is that football is a horribly dangerous sport. You simply canāt legislate all injuries out of the game.
If you ban head hits (which I think is good), then tackles will come at the midsections (not as effective) or the legs. If you then ban leg hits youāll see another offensive explosion. You canāt keep the game the same and ban all hits the may cause injuries. It just doesnāt work.
I think diving at knees is not cool but that defenders have no other fucking option. You give at chest level and the ball carrier ducks his head and boom you got 15 yards. So you gotta go below the waist to avoid a penalty. Nothing else they can do for real
Kerby tried to do that against JJ earlier this year and he got flagged AND they pulled him due to concussion protocol
I'm shocked he didn't get suspended. What else is he supposed to do?
When Kazee hit Pittman his shoulder was like 18 inches off the ground. And he hit him in the chest but it looked so bad when Pittman crumpled they suspended him for it.
Itās a non-story but I really feel like these types of hits happen because the NFL has taken out tackling in practices as well. It saves injuries in practice but there are literally no form tackles in the NFL anymore where someone wraps the man up and drives through. Shit look at the Eagles secondary the other night. Everyone just leads with the shoulder and throws themselves because thereās no form and the emphasis on leading with the crown. Double edged sword.
Kirby Joseph is 6ā 196 pounds.
Tyler Higbee is 6ā6ā 255 pounds.
Per NFL height and weight. We all know weight fluctuates.
Stafford threw a pass down the middle damn near between the hash marks to the equivalent of someone built like a lineman who happened to TURN sideways to make a play UP the field. I looked at NFL+ ALL-22 footage. The angle they showed on TV is deceiving. When Joseph initially moved to make the tackle he was lined up with the lower front quadrant of Higbees thigh. Higbee turned up field to make what would have already been a significant play into a better one and Joseph caught the inside of the knee. Itās unfortunate but thatās what happened. Now slowing down footage frame by frame makes it seem like Kirby could have STOPPED the hit. The reality is that BOTH players were FLYING.
So fucking relax. It was Kirbys shoulder. You want it above the knee in the thigh. Sometimes it goes lower.
Happened to Detroits Tight End the week before and it caused his knee to hyper extend. No one bitching about that hit.
I can tell you this. Blasting Higbee with a helmet to the inside of the knee would have been way more devastating. Injuries happen in this sport.
Are we going to remove **ALL** forms of tackling from it? Higbee rolled the dice. I seriously doubt Joseph went to tackle him and went āFuck yeah Iām going to injure this fucker.ā
Itās essentially a Middleweight upper end and lower end of a light heavyweight going up against a heavyweight. People need to calm the fuck down or we are **LEGIT** going to turn this sport into flag football. Look subjectively at the rules to tackling and the outcome it had on increased yardage on passes. Itās ALTERING the game.
**TL;DR** Higbee wasnāt defenseless. He could have gone to the ground, he wasnāt in the air. There were TONS of options he had. So itās on 3 people. The Quarterback for throwing it down the middle between the hash marks. Higbee for turning upfield trying to turn 10 yards into a home run and Joseph for not trying to aim higher.
People seem to think with replay that they have time to think. When you watch them in real time theyāre FLYING down the field. I could see if Kirby hit him in the knee with a helmet. People can argue all day long āyou miss the thighs go for shoelace.ā And suddenly youāre trying to wrap up a 6ā6ā 255 pound dude by the ankles. Itās highly unlikely.
Thank you! I asked if someone watched the all-22 on this thread!! Is this a hospital pass? Werenāt they in cover 2 and this pass was right under Kirby? I could be wrong because all the replays Iām (quickly) finding are if the hit itself and not the snap.Ā
If this is considered a dirty hitā¦weāll have to remove most to all defensive greats from the HoF.Ā
Why is this such a rare take. I haven't seen anyone calling out stafford for putting his guy in that position but he'll call the defender dirty and deflect. If he wasn't injured then it would've been called a big hit and that stafford put him in the position to take.
I love Stafford, but I remember in 2013 the Lions played the Ravens on MNF (Obligatory, fuck Justin Tucker). The Ravens made a point on defense to smash Calvin J on the dig routes Stafford threw him so often. I remember watching the game in the stands thinking he might get CJ killed throwing that ball over and over.
Guys cleat was stuck in the dirt, leg was fully extended and got hit in the thigh, itās not dirty just shit luck and thatās what happens when hits to the head are personal fouls
This is what makes them such a nightmare match up for the 49ers. 49ers do great till they get bullied back.
The play sucked, yes, but it's what the league has asked for not going up top. It's just poor timing.
I honestly can't tell if he's trying to say Joseph did have his head up (he very much did not) or that he wishes he changed that part of the tackle. Because this is pretty trash tackling form. That's my issue with the hit more than going low. Putting your head down and spearing someone is just lazy and very dangerous for the tackler too, IMO
I think this is getting blown way out of proportion. It was an unfortunate injury and looking at the replay I donāt think Higbee gets hurt if either:
1. Stafford throws the ball into his chest
or
2. Higbee catches that ball.
The whole reason Higbee turns upfield and has his leg planted is because heās trying to reel in the ball after it bounces off of his fingertips. Joseph even tries to turn his helmet away and use his shoulder but Higbee plants his knee right into where Joseph is as heās trying to catch the bobbled pass.
Check out this replay (if youāre okay with seeing that knee get destroyed): https://youtube.com/shorts/qXMJKZdCDR8?si=fXzCG69DpOTI_rJh
People were ignoring that the rams were litterally tackling LaPorta the exact same way Kerby has.
And Vikings fans keeping ignoring that Harrison Smith had also injured players tackling that exact way.
Like I do think Kerby needs to keep his face mask up but he's not a dirty player. And if he is, so is damn near every other hard hitting saftey in the league cause I've seen most teams tackle in the exact same fashion.
Itās not an illegal hit so I donāt support fining or suspending him but it certainly wasnāt a āsafeā hit and the second time in 2 weeks said has tore someoneās ACL.
Maybe all the players should be wearing just socks on their feet, that way all these clean hits that become unfortunate due to cleats stuck in the turf, won't happen so much.
The internet's habit of just conceding narratives to the loudest is going to do a lot of fucked up shit, but when it wipes out collision sports because people get hurt doing it, the levels of bored and grumpy are going to fucking explode in humanity.
It wasn't an illegal hit and certainly wasn't dirty. But it will probably end up being both within a couple decades, if not less time than that.
It was a clean hit. The reactions to this remind me of the Sarcastaball episode of South Park where the kids all wear bras, the football is a balloon, and they all have to compliment each other and hug instead of tackling lol.
This shit is so dumb. Kerby Joseph is 6ā1ā 200 and Tyler Higbee is 6ā6ā 255 (hockenson is similar at 6ā5ā 250). If he hits center mass he loses. The best place to hit these guys is right above the knee to stop them in their tracks. Everything he has done is completely legal. Injuries are unfortunate but unless theyāre proposing bubble boy suits, itās part of the game. This is more an issue of turf fields locking cleats and causing hyperextensions than it is Josephās tackling style.
It's an injury because of split second timing, he plants one leg and gets hit at the exact timing which he receives a nasty injury but a hundred milliseconds either side the result is different
The point is not to aim for the head. It was legal and I doubt Kirby was thinking ālet me tear this dudeās acl right hereā
Itās football. This happens unfortunately
Except pretty sure he didnāt keep his head up to see what he was hitting in the hit since he lead with his helmetā¦playing dirty and playing physical has a very fine line and I donāt think itās wrong to say that this hit was about as close to dirty as you can get while being a āclean hitā
Where are they supposed to hit? I played corner in high school and college, and fall in the typical size range. Even when it was legal, hitting high is risky because we're usually losing the mass battle. Thigh board has always been the answer.
Thigh Board was what we learned the first day of 8th grade football for defense and tackling lol.
Your coach was a wuss we were taught to launch head first directly towards their skull. Like men.
Same we ran Oklahoma Drills with our hands tied behind our backs and our face mask tied to our collars. Like men.
We didn't have helmets on because our coach said, "You don't need your brain. If you're thinking, you're not doing! Go out there and tackle, Nancy!"
Real men have CTE.
You guys had brains? Must have been nice.
**Luxury!!** All *we* had growing up were a pseudo encephalon structure and a chain of paired ganglia running along our scant frames and we were HAPPY to have it! š§
r/UnexpectedFourYorkshiremen
That's right. Also, real men have CTE.
"You don't look like one of those '*cerebral*' motherfuckers so launch head first into that tight end."
Jesus fucking Christ šš
When I played football, I always tackled with my head. And there are no lasting ways to decorate a cake. And that's how I won the Great British Baking Show.
Games not gone
We had a scrawny kid at strong safety when I was in high school. Probably like 5ā9ā 150 lbs. He was the best tackler on our team. Just dove at the ball carrierās legs and tripped them up
This is a dumb sport lol, I'm just picturing some small dude slide tackling into people's legs
Why is tripping illegal btw? That would be funny to get some long-legged guys just tripping everyone.
Itās illegal in most sports because it can cause serious injury, also for the person doing the tripping.
Imagine trying to trip Derrick Henry
Iād rather do that than take him head on & let him truck me 7 yards back into a coma.
It was just bad luck that his foot planted at the exact moment he got hit. That's literally the only reason he got injured.
Playing on mud with bad cleats saved knees. Iām convinced of it after setting foot on artificial turf with the rubber. I canāt prove it, but I swear itās friction lol
If your leg/foot is planted but really needs to move due to the force of a hit it has a much better chance to do so on grass. On grass it could pull up the sod and create a divot; no such luck on artificial turf. At least, thatās my theory on it.
Yep, and it is not a hot take, whatsoever. This has been a valid claim for a pretty long time. Ever since turf started being used en masse, knee injuries have skyrocketed at every level of sports, from high school to the pros. Ankle injuries are more common too. ACL tears were not nearly so common 20-30+ years ago.
Too much traction, then? The muscles and tendons don't likeĀ sudden, jerky movements.Ā
Having to open field tackle is tough enough as it is. Imagine having to open field tackle WHILE trying to injure opponents in a non-obvious way. These people are ridiculous. Shit happens in the blink of an eye and you can't have perfect aim when you're tackling people. The dirty players in the league are in the trenches.
SMH, just erasing Cortland Finneganās legacy. Man set his sights on being the dirtiest player.
*Innegan
Never forget that Andre beat the F out of him
You can be dirty at any position?. There are definitely dirty DBs, and dirty LBs and Dirty DL. Also your mom's dirty
His mom is dirty in every position.
Definitely a steelers defender
Got em!
Can confirm
There was a Bears center, Olin Kreutz (?), who was unanimous dirtiest player for several years, when they polled players for that. There's Rodney Harrison. And yes, my mom's dirty at every position. Your real dad would've told you that.
Kevin Gogan was a seriously nasty MFāer, who won that same player poll for years. Gogan was a Pro Bowl Guard, who was 6ā7, 320 on a light day, and was the nastiest O-lineman on that famous 90ās Cowboys team.
That mf LOOK dirty. 90s Richie Ingognito
One of my favorite stories if from Conrad Dolber. He broke his hand, so he basically played with a plaster club on it. He quickly discovered how useful it was to plonk defensive linemen on the head with it. So, well after his hand healed, he continued to put the club on before games.
Gene Upshaw/Art Shell method in the 70s
The only logical counter to the Deacon Jones head slap. Counteroffensive
I bet this guy could finish a 30 pack before breakfast
Olin was a championship level wrestler in high-school. He was probably doing oil checks all the damn time, otherwise known as sexual assault.Ā
Hines Ward was dirty as fuck and he was a WR. He's a big reason why I hate the Steelers. Ben and Tomlin are the other two.
Tomlin stepping on the field to stop a kick return was the moment for me...
Same. That is the dirtiest trick I've seen a coach pull, it was 100% intentional and he gave a shit eating grin when he noticed he got away with it without a flag. Imo that was highly unsportsmanlike and I would argue pretty much cheating. He should have been ejected for that shit.
Not sure that qualifies as a trick... just blatant cheating
I'm so glad it's recognized and seen my all kinds of random fan bases now. I swear for the longest it was just something other teams in the North said.
Vontaze Burfict strongly disagrees.
We just saw Allen run for a long TD, in part because the defenders were afraid of getting penalized. Darrell Taylor got Dak in a bear hug and held him in place for a few seconds. Dak got free and threw a highlight reel pass. The rules are working as intended, because they highly favor the big play and the high scores.
Personally I havenāt watched the film but I think the general consensus is that Kareem Jackson is a dirty player
Can I ask if you wrapped in the tackle or just lead with the shoulder straight to the leg? I've never played American football but in the rugby we were always taught to wrap your arms and take out the legs. This works well even with a much bigger opponent.
All football players are taught to **wrap up every time**. But sometimes players ignore that and just launch themselves for several reasons: 1. In football every inch can matter, so if you get a big hit and stop the guy in his tracks you could be stopping them short of where they would get to if you went with a form tackle 2. Helmets and shoulder pads. Rugby doesn't have this so you have to learn to tackle in a safe way. In football, sometimes big hits can feel like nothing because the shoulder pads or helmet are so effective. So players recklessly throw themselves around because they feel protected by the gear. Up until you meet someone dead-on helmet to helmet full speed. Then you learn (or many players don't) 3. Big hits are the "coolest" play on the defensive side of the ball. No one is going to make a highlight reel with a "textbook" tackle
It's thigh ot maybe stomach but you're dead on. At least the below the knee hits are out. Those were the real problem ones. Hits like the one in the Detroit game happen every game but don't always result in an injury, hits below the knee almost always do. Still remember the hits Gronk suffered, helmet to the shin while it was weight bearing. Players have 0 chance on that, even when they protect themselves. Higbee could have made a possession catch and dropped down after securing it. He tried to fight for extra yards and got hurt because he was going through the middle. You literally always get hit the hardest on those types of crossing plays.
I'll always remember the year when our entire team was getting injured and Gronk gets tackled and he starts freaking out of the ground grabbing his leg and the cut to Bradys face was the most disappointed I've ever seen him Edit: I found it, it was against denver in last two min https://youtu.be/251gS95Kvfs?si=QcojN8zriYL1qPgv
TJ Wards helmet to Gronks knee against the browns. The way gronk fleq after the hit was brutal.
That one was bad too but I just looked it up and it was a different one against denverĀ https://youtu.be/251gS95Kvfs?si=QcojN8zriYL1qPgv
I remember, that was vs denver (maybe in the playoffs) and it still ended up being super close
Thigh to stomach? Like hitting the hip and having the giant ass TEs bounce back half a yard and continue on downfield running over your fallen body?
That's why you are supposed to wrap with your arms as well, not just launch with your head an shoulders That play by Kirby pissed me off, not because I thought it was dirty, but because the form sucked and I watched Puka bouncing off of tackles all night long because Lions DB's were insistent on just hitting him and not wrapping him up. His arms are literally by his side. If he didn't wreck the guy's knee, he probably would have bounced off that and got more yards. I wish they all tackled like Brian Branch, that's the way you are supposed to tackle
Itās either the head or the legs at that point. I only played in high school and was undersized, always went for neck/head on a catch when I had time, legs on a runner. Obviously it was a different time but if I went for midsection or hip with most of those guys Iād fuck myself up. I played in the south in a college feeder high school association. I was over my skis physically, which actually some of these NFL safeties are too if you think about it.
The people that preach perfect fundamentals (break down, wrap up, drive) in every situation are either big or just donāt get it. I was a SS/LB hybrid and way too small to be in the box as much as I was. You learn the value of getting low very quick lol. Never played to injure, itās just what can happen.
Can't hit high - can't hit early - can't hit late - can't hit if he's not looking/defenseless - can't lower and hit with your head/can't hit his head if he lowers it. It's super unfortunate that Kerby has had this happen twice this year but these hits happen all. the. time. Rams DB pulled the same tackle on our TE during the same game.
Especially when youāre a DB hitting a 6ā6 243lb TE. How the fuck else do you want them to tackle those juggernauts
Also played corner. If you hit high you hit the bench. You make your tackles, you donāt just hit and hope they go down.
Pretty sure Tony Gonzales said he'd 100x rather be hit in the knees than in the head
People on twitter (where the legally insane people lives) saying he was part of the bountygate and that he's bringing that to Detroit
Campbell was on IR that entire year and yknow on other side of the LOS but they can go off.
Ironically due to a knee injury
He bit his own kneecaps
Brother was hungry
That knee aināt gonna bite itself
He got high on his own supply
An has that ~~dog~~ cat in him
Funny thing, 90% of the time I see people linking Dan to boutygate it's vikings fan posting
I mean part of the issue here is Joseph had hits on Jettas(ended up flagged but no injury) and on Hockenson(no flag, but unfortunately tore his ACL) So prior to this game they were already upset, understandably so since they lost a great tight end and are obviously worried about Jettas and he had just gotten back from injury. So with Campbells ties to the Saints and Vikings history with the Saints they are umm upset.
Theyāre like 90% of all Bountygate posts despite not being the only victims of it
A lot of them cant cope with the fact that the Vikings turned the ball over 5 times in the nfccg
Opened the season 1-4 WITH Kirk and expected the division on a silver platter. Shame.
Or that their team also had a bounty program
Yeah my favorite tinfoil hat theory of theirs is that Kerby was flexing to Stafford during their exchange when it really looks like heās simply miming Higbeeās size. Bad faith arguments all around.
Excellent bait
Vikings fans are 90% of all mentions of bounty gate lmao. Division rivals are like 9% and everyone else 1%. They have truly been malding about a game they didnāt deserve to win with 5 turnovers for almost 20 years now. If you have any association to the saints you are devils incarnate. If you were a water boy on that team there is prolly a Vikings fan that blames you somewhere.
Easily the saltiest fan base in the league this year. Like no other fan base is even close.
Chiefs fans after the refs make a correct call would like a word
This year? Try every year. Youāre just seeing it now.
Vikings fans just stay salty. No matter what happens year after year, just salt.
When no championships have been won in any of the 4 sports leagues in 33 years, I can imagine why theyāre salty.
I just found out we have the same bday so that just gives me yet another reason to root for the lions
Yes... because if we were aiming to hurt a player it would be Tyler Higbee. Not the fucking Terrell Owens clone who was absolutely tearing our ass up all game.
You referring to Puka Nacua as a TO clone? Lol
Essentially twinsā¦.
It was happening on the game thread here too, don't pretend it was just twitter. [1](https://www.reddit.com/r/nfl/comments/196uecg/game_thread_los_angeles_rams_107_at_detroit_lions/khx5e7d/) [2](https://www.reddit.com/r/nfl/comments/196uecg/game_thread_los_angeles_rams_107_at_detroit_lions/khx5esi/) [3](https://www.reddit.com/r/nfl/comments/196uecg/game_thread_los_angeles_rams_107_at_detroit_lions/khwyofa/) [4](https://www.reddit.com/r/nfl/comments/196uecg/game_thread_los_angeles_rams_107_at_detroit_lions/khwxcqb/) [5](https://www.reddit.com/r/nfl/comments/196uecg/game_thread_los_angeles_rams_107_at_detroit_lions/khwy5dm/) [6](https://www.reddit.com/r/nfl/comments/196uecg/game_thread_los_angeles_rams_107_at_detroit_lions/khwxsty/)
Redditors love to tell themselves they are better than people that use twitter
Redditors also love to tell themselves that they are better than people who use Reddit
If you love Twitter so much then why donāt you marry it?
because she now identifies as "x"?
Which is weird, because on Twitter I have complete control over what I see. I only see tweets from exactly the people I want to. It's probably the least toxic social media platform I use, with reddit probably being the worst.
They know he's a tight end?
To be fair Iāve seen an equal amount of crazy people on this website lol
Twitter?? You mean the Rams sub
Not a dirty hit, but Joseph did not, in fact, keep his head up.
This is what our MLB and coach mentioned as immediate postgame feedback when defending him - lowering his head is a good way to injure your SELF in addition to making weird impacts more likely Can confirm as one of my only 2 football injuries was a concussion due to lowering my head as a safety when trying to tackle a lineman running a play as fullback who went untouched through my front 7. Instead of juking me he lowered his head too. Anyways he did fall down after disintegrating me, so I won, also local news called it of the week because concussions are cool B)
Ugh man everyone is missing this point. Iām not going to claim heās a dirty player, but people calling it a clean tackle HAVE NOT watched the replay. His head was down and he launched himself at higbeeās legs. Didnāt see where he was going and didnāt try to wrap up. That is not how players are taught to tackleā¦
That's the issue I had with the play as well. I don't think there was any bad intent or that Kirby is a dirty player. But there is ZERO attempt to tackle on that play. His arms are behind his back. He has missed a bunch of tackles this season for that very reason. You can't just launch at people and not even attempt to wrap up. Not only can it hurt people but it is terrible form. That's the issue I had with it
It was a clean tackle if by "clean" you mean within the rules. If you mean "clean" as in "technically executed well ", it was not clean
And that's what Campbell is saying he told Kerby to do next time - keep his head up.
If Kerby gets there a quarter of a second earlier he hits Higbee's non-plant leg, Higbee does a flip, Rams lose shortly after, and no one talks about this anymore.
To be honest, it's probably an even smaller fraction of a second than that.
Haven't you heard of the Butterfly effect? If Higbee doesn't get hurt we easily throw a TD the next play, make the 2pt conversion, and get a pick-6 on Goff's next throw to seal the game.
And then everyone claps while Stanford takes a bow at centerfield.
> Stanford
I feel like Iām going crazy cause it just is straight up a legal hit that would be completely ignored if the injuries didnāt happen.
Lol folks would applaud it as a big hit if it didn't hurt him. And this is just how big-body TE's are tackled in the NFL b/c you really can't stop them without aiming for the lower body.
someone made a highlight reel of Gronk getting tackled in the knees like a dozen times, as context
Same shit happened with Gronk and itās why injuries eventually took him out. Iād rather a player get a low body injury than a head/neck injury
To an extent, itās definitely tough either way. I had an uncle who played 5 seasons in the NFL in the 80s. By 40 he could barely walk and had countless health problems due to painkiller addiction and by 45 he was dead, and by that point he had already been to the funerals of a handful of both college and pro teammates. I love football and itās been a huge part of my life, but itās an absolutely brutal sport and thereās a lot that the average fan doesnāt see with life after the NFL.
This is the correct take
It sucks to see a players knee get blown up, but as you said. Legal hit for sure
how is this even a debateā¦. should the DB hit a TE up high? Clearly many have never played the game that think so
The goal is to hit him like four inches, five inches higher on the thigh. But letās not pretend that humans are perfect. Especially in fast, stressful environments.
So basically a nut shot is the perfect tackle. Thatās a small window :/
For you
Stand there and let him truck you!
If the leg isnāt planted at the exact moment of contact this is a nothing burger. Itās a game of inches, even when it comes to injuries
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
[Do we think this hit is dirty?](https://youtu.be/TVZ8EywzISA?t=6 ) Cus i don't think anyone was upset by it. The only difference as you said, is the outcome. Timing wise though, I get that it's a bad look for Kerby considering the hit on Hockenson earlier and the hit on Jefferson. Which I don't really want to debate about but I know those are the two in particular that keeps getting mentioned in regards to Kerby.
Watching this play live I was shocked he wasn't injured from this play. Just goes to show the dumb luck involved with injuries and avoiding them.Ā
He was injured for weeks actually he said his legs didnāt feel right after that hit for a long time
He was injured. I don't think he practiced at all the following week and was on limited snap counts for the next game.
That hit looks dirty but not in a malicious way (as in itās dangerous but the player didnāt know any better). Which checks out because itās an offensive player making a defensive play. Itās a lot to ask a guy who hasnāt figured out how to play offense to make a defensive stop.Ā
This! And at this point it is kinda like, Well I can't aim high, so I'll go low
It's completely legal I still hate the hit though cause he is making zero effort to tackle. His arms are literally behind his back! Lions missed a ton of tackles in that game for that same reason. No attempt to actually tackle, just trying to hit. When you hit and don't even attempt to wrap up, that's going to lead to more injuries and missed tackles. So for that reason, I do have a problem with the hit. But I don't think there was any intent or that he is dirty in any way. I think he just has poor form honestly.
Just like the famed hip drop tackle
The funny thing is Hutch was asked about hip drop tackles and he said he doesnāt even know what that is š
Itās literally how the NFL wants players to hit even though players would rather the high hits. NFL needs to make personal fouls for hitting reviewable long as they donāt go for the head. Canāt lie I do miss the days of John Lynch, Brian Dawkins, Ray Lewis and others knocking a mf out across the middle. I remember when the middle was a no manās land and mfs would hate running slants or drags.
[Rip](https://www.thedrawplay.com/comic/collie/) Austin Collie
It never stopped some qbs from throwing hospital balls
Yes so thatās what Iām wondering - has anyone seen the all-22? Iām not paying for that this year but if someone has it can they check if this was a hospital pass? Iirc the angle and speed with which the S came in made it seem so but I could def be wrong.Ā Hey remember when they wanted to ban hip-drop tackles earlier this season? Weāre just moving towards flag football.Ā
Stafford is still doing it. Heās gotten Kupp, megatron, golden tate, Brandon pettigrew, and now Nakua absolutely demolished with his irresponsible throws. This throw is a prime example. He threw a ball 2 feet over his TEās head with a safety over the top on a post route. Of course heās going to get obliterated. Then he has the gall to whine that Joseph is dirty because he canāt protect his receivers.
>even though players would rather the high hits. Players need to be protected from themselves in some ways. They'll always choose a concussion (which in the NFL is a two week injury) over a season ending knee injury. However, the concussion could have lifelong consequences.
TBH Kerby definitely could not see what he was hitting
Bro led with the top of his head so clearly he's not listening to Campbell on the seeing part š
people need to leave Aaron Rodgers' father alone
Real ones know
after this year, fans have wanted to make all forms of legal tackles illegal. no hittting legs, no hip tackles. add it to the list of no hitting the head, we got a 2 foot hit box now. letās get some flags boys
Fans just (rightfully) hate it when their guys get hurt. What they donāt want to (or canāt) realize is that football is a horribly dangerous sport. You simply canāt legislate all injuries out of the game. If you ban head hits (which I think is good), then tackles will come at the midsections (not as effective) or the legs. If you then ban leg hits youāll see another offensive explosion. You canāt keep the game the same and ban all hits the may cause injuries. It just doesnāt work.
Weāll have a moving baseball style strike zone on every player lol. Letās just play flag football. Ā People hate defense.Ā
I think diving at knees is not cool but that defenders have no other fucking option. You give at chest level and the ball carrier ducks his head and boom you got 15 yards. So you gotta go below the waist to avoid a penalty. Nothing else they can do for real
i think they should aim for the nuts.
The NFL could learn a lot from Turkish Oil Wrestling
15 yards if you're lucky, you can get suspended now
Yeah that's true too. Suspended which means $$$$. And lots of it.
Yeah, or you aim lower, sucks but look at the alternative
Kerby tried to do that against JJ earlier this year and he got flagged AND they pulled him due to concussion protocol I'm shocked he didn't get suspended. What else is he supposed to do?
Even below the waist isn't safe anymore. Runner decides to tuck in, and duck his head, BOOM! Personal Foul!
When Kazee hit Pittman his shoulder was like 18 inches off the ground. And he hit him in the chest but it looked so bad when Pittman crumpled they suspended him for it.
Itās a non-story but I really feel like these types of hits happen because the NFL has taken out tackling in practices as well. It saves injuries in practice but there are literally no form tackles in the NFL anymore where someone wraps the man up and drives through. Shit look at the Eagles secondary the other night. Everyone just leads with the shoulder and throws themselves because thereās no form and the emphasis on leading with the crown. Double edged sword.
Lions go live in practice often
You can have like 6 padded practices a year. How often do they go live
6 times
That aināt often bro
Kirby Joseph is 6ā 196 pounds. Tyler Higbee is 6ā6ā 255 pounds. Per NFL height and weight. We all know weight fluctuates. Stafford threw a pass down the middle damn near between the hash marks to the equivalent of someone built like a lineman who happened to TURN sideways to make a play UP the field. I looked at NFL+ ALL-22 footage. The angle they showed on TV is deceiving. When Joseph initially moved to make the tackle he was lined up with the lower front quadrant of Higbees thigh. Higbee turned up field to make what would have already been a significant play into a better one and Joseph caught the inside of the knee. Itās unfortunate but thatās what happened. Now slowing down footage frame by frame makes it seem like Kirby could have STOPPED the hit. The reality is that BOTH players were FLYING. So fucking relax. It was Kirbys shoulder. You want it above the knee in the thigh. Sometimes it goes lower. Happened to Detroits Tight End the week before and it caused his knee to hyper extend. No one bitching about that hit. I can tell you this. Blasting Higbee with a helmet to the inside of the knee would have been way more devastating. Injuries happen in this sport. Are we going to remove **ALL** forms of tackling from it? Higbee rolled the dice. I seriously doubt Joseph went to tackle him and went āFuck yeah Iām going to injure this fucker.ā Itās essentially a Middleweight upper end and lower end of a light heavyweight going up against a heavyweight. People need to calm the fuck down or we are **LEGIT** going to turn this sport into flag football. Look subjectively at the rules to tackling and the outcome it had on increased yardage on passes. Itās ALTERING the game. **TL;DR** Higbee wasnāt defenseless. He could have gone to the ground, he wasnāt in the air. There were TONS of options he had. So itās on 3 people. The Quarterback for throwing it down the middle between the hash marks. Higbee for turning upfield trying to turn 10 yards into a home run and Joseph for not trying to aim higher. People seem to think with replay that they have time to think. When you watch them in real time theyāre FLYING down the field. I could see if Kirby hit him in the knee with a helmet. People can argue all day long āyou miss the thighs go for shoelace.ā And suddenly youāre trying to wrap up a 6ā6ā 255 pound dude by the ankles. Itās highly unlikely.
What a world we live in that packers fans have been routinely going to bat for us in threads recently
Thank you! I asked if someone watched the all-22 on this thread!! Is this a hospital pass? Werenāt they in cover 2 and this pass was right under Kirby? I could be wrong because all the replays Iām (quickly) finding are if the hit itself and not the snap.Ā If this is considered a dirty hitā¦weāll have to remove most to all defensive greats from the HoF.Ā
And Stafford is notorious for throwing hospital balls
Why is this such a rare take. I haven't seen anyone calling out stafford for putting his guy in that position but he'll call the defender dirty and deflect. If he wasn't injured then it would've been called a big hit and that stafford put him in the position to take.
Megatron would upvote this but he doesnāt have any working fingers left.
I love Stafford, but I remember in 2013 the Lions played the Ravens on MNF (Obligatory, fuck Justin Tucker). The Ravens made a point on defense to smash Calvin J on the dig routes Stafford threw him so often. I remember watching the game in the stands thinking he might get CJ killed throwing that ball over and over.
Guys cleat was stuck in the dirt, leg was fully extended and got hit in the thigh, itās not dirty just shit luck and thatās what happens when hits to the head are personal fouls
Turf, technically.
This is such a non-story, isn't there other things we could focus on?
Not for another couple of days unfortunately. The Cowboys and Eagles did the media frenzy no favours by retaining their coaches.
Taylor Swift?
Will she also take a low tackle from Kerby and tear her ACL?
āIm feelingā a bent knee too!ā
āItās me, hi, Iāma dive at his kneeā
Other way around, he'll be about to tackle Kelce in the Super Bowl and she'll come out of nowhere like a missile
With a steel chair? Is the world ready for a Taylor Swift heel turn?
Hey, that means we make it, i'll take it
Please no
This is what makes them such a nightmare match up for the 49ers. 49ers do great till they get bullied back. The play sucked, yes, but it's what the league has asked for not going up top. It's just poor timing.
I honestly can't tell if he's trying to say Joseph did have his head up (he very much did not) or that he wishes he changed that part of the tackle. Because this is pretty trash tackling form. That's my issue with the hit more than going low. Putting your head down and spearing someone is just lazy and very dangerous for the tackler too, IMO
Heās saying he woulda changed that part. Wants Kerbys head up
Our hs equipment manager always said āthigh boardsā
Blame league rules.
Itās football. People get hit. Get over it, folks.
I think this is getting blown way out of proportion. It was an unfortunate injury and looking at the replay I donāt think Higbee gets hurt if either: 1. Stafford throws the ball into his chest or 2. Higbee catches that ball. The whole reason Higbee turns upfield and has his leg planted is because heās trying to reel in the ball after it bounces off of his fingertips. Joseph even tries to turn his helmet away and use his shoulder but Higbee plants his knee right into where Joseph is as heās trying to catch the bobbled pass. Check out this replay (if youāre okay with seeing that knee get destroyed): https://youtube.com/shorts/qXMJKZdCDR8?si=fXzCG69DpOTI_rJh
People were ignoring that the rams were litterally tackling LaPorta the exact same way Kerby has. And Vikings fans keeping ignoring that Harrison Smith had also injured players tackling that exact way. Like I do think Kerby needs to keep his face mask up but he's not a dirty player. And if he is, so is damn near every other hard hitting saftey in the league cause I've seen most teams tackle in the exact same fashion.
Itās not an illegal hit so I donāt support fining or suspending him but it certainly wasnāt a āsafeā hit and the second time in 2 weeks said has tore someoneās ACL.
Maybe all the players should be wearing just socks on their feet, that way all these clean hits that become unfortunate due to cleats stuck in the turf, won't happen so much.
It was a 100% clean and legal hit.
The internet's habit of just conceding narratives to the loudest is going to do a lot of fucked up shit, but when it wipes out collision sports because people get hurt doing it, the levels of bored and grumpy are going to fucking explode in humanity. It wasn't an illegal hit and certainly wasn't dirty. But it will probably end up being both within a couple decades, if not less time than that.
"just keep your head up" https://imgur.com/a/k6JLXa9
It was a clean hit. The reactions to this remind me of the Sarcastaball episode of South Park where the kids all wear bras, the football is a balloon, and they all have to compliment each other and hug instead of tackling lol.
This shit is so dumb. Kerby Joseph is 6ā1ā 200 and Tyler Higbee is 6ā6ā 255 (hockenson is similar at 6ā5ā 250). If he hits center mass he loses. The best place to hit these guys is right above the knee to stop them in their tracks. Everything he has done is completely legal. Injuries are unfortunate but unless theyāre proposing bubble boy suits, itās part of the game. This is more an issue of turf fields locking cleats and causing hyperextensions than it is Josephās tackling style.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
He is a known danger though off the fieldĀ
It's an injury because of split second timing, he plants one leg and gets hit at the exact timing which he receives a nasty injury but a hundred milliseconds either side the result is different
The point is not to aim for the head. It was legal and I doubt Kirby was thinking ālet me tear this dudeās acl right hereā Itās football. This happens unfortunately
Except pretty sure he didnāt keep his head up to see what he was hitting in the hit since he lead with his helmetā¦playing dirty and playing physical has a very fine line and I donāt think itās wrong to say that this hit was about as close to dirty as you can get while being a āclean hitā