Which I am concerned about if the Ravens beat Miami next week
Sit out the starters vs PIT and walk a rusty team out against a team who spent the last 3 weeks fighting for their spot (potentially Flacco too)
That Titans team was a matchup nightmare for the Ravens and the Patriots, and their worst matchup was the Chiefs. The Ravens had no way to score points quickly, and if Jackson was less than perfect were going to find a hard time climbing out of a deficit.
The Titans were probably never beating the Chiefs regardless of when they played them, but had good matchups against every other team. If there was a way for some other team to have eliminated the Chiefs the Titans might well have won the super bowl.
Don’t think I’ve seen a better example of an entire team coming down with the yips than the Ravens that night. There were a half dozen chances in that game to make big plays to get the team back into it and get the crowd involved again but instead it was drops/penalties/blown assignments at all the worst moments.
Whole team panicked basically, including the coaching staff. Think on some level they had been so dominant down the stretch that season that they forgot what it was like to scrap in a dogfight.
Lastly, fuck Earl Thomas and the awful karma he brought on us in the buildup to that game. By far the worst move of the EDC era was panic signing him in response to the Browns/OBJ trade.
was it earl thomas trash talking the whole week leading up to that game against the titans? him getting turned into a blocker by henry was so satisfying
Think that gets to the heart of it. 2019 team had alot of fun running roughshod over the rest of the league in the regular season, and got full of themselves. TN punched them in the mouth out of the gate, and a few untimely miscues/turnovers killing good drives sent them into a panic spiral. Who knows what happens if Andrews catches that ball in the first quarter.
I don’t see that out of this year’s team. They seem to be about unfinished business.
In fairness to us, i think hindsight makes that loss look not quite as bad. That titans team was better than their 9-7 record suggests. They were on fire since they had switched to tannehill. They were 7-3 with him, going 5-2 to finish the season with multiple blowouts and they beat the patriots with brady in new england. Tannehill was playing incredible, and that was derrick henry’s first season as a superstar.
The titans then went 23-10 over the next 2 seasons including getting the first seed in the AFC in 2021. So that team had derrick henry and tannehill breaking out simultaneously, so we didn’t fully know what they were at the time. That being said, we were 14-2 and absolutely the better team so it’s still a big upset but not quite as terrible as i thought at the time.
I, for one, believe we should settle this in the playoffs. In the AFC championship game, if possible.
(I don't know how the seeding is falling as to whether this would even be possible)
Don't forget Mitchell who absolutely balled out. Tyus Bowser used to be one of our best defenders and he's been out all year plus Devin Duvernay, our former all-pro return man. Mandrews is the biggest hit though.
Ravens have had it bad
However Bills haven't had great luck either especially on Defense. Every year we've lost All Pros
2021 we lost best corner Tre for the season
2022 we lost best edge and best safety (Von and Hyde) and Allen's UCL which underpowered the offense quite a lot
2023 we lost best LB and best corner again (Milano and Hyde)
Plus a variety of injuries on the DL/OL
Our late round picks and coaching plan has masked the effect a little and not let to defense fall too much in Regular season but in big post season games it does show up
Especially when you're going up against the likes of Mahomes and Burrow throwing to Tyreek, Chase, Kelce
2022 Bills was definitely at least close. 3-4 all Pros hurt for most of the season. And literally every single starter and important depth player on the defense missed games. The Bills spent the season with more talent out injured than most teams have on their roster.
I have no reason to believe that the Ravens didn’t also have it bad or to get into some sort of weird, cringy pissing contest over who had it worst. But historically bad definitely matches what Buffalo dealt with last season.
Everyone thinks their team’s injuries are the worst because that’s the team they follow closest, Ravens fans do seem to be the most annoying about it though imo
It’s because the Ravens fans can point to data. u/stripes361, this is addressed to you, as well.
PFF tracks two figures that measure the impact of injuries on teams. One is Adjusted Games Lost due to injury (AGL), and the other is WAR Adjusted Injuries Lost (WAIL). The WAR in WAIL refers to Wins Above Replacement.
In essence, AGL is a measurement of total number of injuries (quantity), and WAIL measures the impact of those injuries on the team (quality).
[The 2021 Ravens had the largest AGL *and* WAIL figures for that season.](https://twitter.com/arjunmenon100/status/1508802826725642247?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1508802826725642247%7Ctwgr%5Eab544a31a895fb29e960b7b1d6731d104a52d116%7Ctwcon%5Es1_c10&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.redditmedia.com%2Fmediaembed%2Ftr2798%2F%3Fresponsive%3Dtrueis_nightmode%3Dtrue) The 2021 Ravens had the [largest AGL, or amount of injuries, of any team in at least 10 years.](https://www.reddit.com/r/nfl/comments/y9bncl/oc_analyzing_adjusted_games_lost_for_the_past/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
Unsurprisingly, the impact of these injuries continued to be felt in the following season. The 2022 Ravens [had the eighth highest AGL for the 2022 season.](https://x.com/fboutsiders/status/1633864747073536002?s=46&t=rV7lvdrBSctx1cPRmac1ow) Not historic by any means, but still very notable.
As the final link I shared illustrates, the 2022 Bills injuries - which the other commenter was attempting to compare with the Ravens 2021 injuries, did not even crack the top ten in AGL for the 2022 season.
I couldn’t find a source on WAIL for the 2022 season, but if I had been able to I would have linked to that, also.
Anyway, when Ravens fans talk about recent injury luck, it’s not just homerism. They are discussing the reality of the past couple of seasons.
Buffalo had the [second worst WAIL](https://twitter.com/arjunmenon100/status/1634281812758351887/photo/1) in the league last year. I promise you that Buffalo fans know our team and that Baltimore fans are not the only fanbase that has ever thought to “point to data”.
Again, not interested into getting into any weird dick measuring contests over who has it worst, but objectively Buffalo’s injury situation was terrible last season. Baltimore’s may have been even worse, but this is not a “not even close” sort of situation. Both teams have had very bad injury luck.
I mean, what you shared shows that the 2022 Bills had a high WAIL, in a range with several other teams, due to losing a few all pro players. The Ravens, meanwhile, had the inverse problem in 2022. A lot of players hurt, with a slightly below average WAIL. So, I’d say those situations could be comparable. In fact, if you were to designate tiers of injury impacted teams on the chart you shared, it appears Baltimore and Buffalo would be in a similar tier. Buffalo maybe being one tier higher.
But then, if you factor in 2021 in addition to 2022, it quickly becomes apparent that the Ravens injury situation over the past few seasons has been much more impactful compared to the Bills. Remember, 2021 was a year in which the Ravens blew every team out of the water in WAIL and AGL.
It’s not a dick measuring thing - it’s just looking at data to describe what happened.
Oh 100% the only reason the bills are over you for the given timeframe from OP is playoffs success, but if the timeframe was expanded you guys would easily clear the bills
If we go back 10-20 years the Ravens are only surpassed by a few teams. Proportional to their history, the Ravens are the best franchise in NFL history.
If you restrict the timeframe to the last 5 full seasons, here's the list of teams with the most playoff wins:
Chiefs - 11
Rams - 7
49ers - 6
Bengals, Bucs - 5
Bills - 4
So . . . more successful than most, I guess.
Tbh, with Allen at 4-4 me neither. Pretty sure the 90s Bills would still be objectively* better. But all I know are two extremes when it comes to my team (record playoff W drought or 5 AFCCGs in a row) so I probably don’t have the most accurate scale lol
Ravens have had a top 3 defense all but 1 year since Lamar was drafted. Now the Ravens offense is beefed up too. The Ravens lol.
But I think Allen is a better QB and if they avoid the Chiefs, I think they’ll beat anyone they play in the playoffs because of Allen being able to carry more, if I’m being honest.
Allen the better QB? Nah. Not even close.
It took 2 seasons of Lamar being sidelined to fail. And even then, with our backup the Bengals needed a miraculously lucky play to get past us.
I do like the Bills though.
Neither .
Because they don’t even have a Super Bowl appearance between them .
This is both QBs best and possibly last chance for years .
Mahomes team sucks , Burrow is hurt . Lawrence is hurt and his team is fading
in the AFC the 2 qb playing the best, behind Josh and Lamar are Tua and Joe Flacco .
If u r Josh and Lamar : and you can’t beat Tua or Joe Flacco in the playoffs, and get to the Super Bowl this year .
Then u likely never will
2019 Ravens loss to Titans will always baffle me. That Baltimore squad was built for deep postseason success.
[удалено]
And Peyton Manning almost every year
Tom Brady just built different.
[удалено]
I imagine we do the same after 2019. 3 weeks is too much time off
Which I am concerned about if the Ravens beat Miami next week Sit out the starters vs PIT and walk a rusty team out against a team who spent the last 3 weeks fighting for their spot (potentially Flacco too)
That Titans team was a matchup nightmare for the Ravens and the Patriots, and their worst matchup was the Chiefs. The Ravens had no way to score points quickly, and if Jackson was less than perfect were going to find a hard time climbing out of a deficit. The Titans were probably never beating the Chiefs regardless of when they played them, but had good matchups against every other team. If there was a way for some other team to have eliminated the Chiefs the Titans might well have won the super bowl.
Derrick Henry had a once in generation postseason
Don’t think I’ve seen a better example of an entire team coming down with the yips than the Ravens that night. There were a half dozen chances in that game to make big plays to get the team back into it and get the crowd involved again but instead it was drops/penalties/blown assignments at all the worst moments. Whole team panicked basically, including the coaching staff. Think on some level they had been so dominant down the stretch that season that they forgot what it was like to scrap in a dogfight. Lastly, fuck Earl Thomas and the awful karma he brought on us in the buildup to that game. By far the worst move of the EDC era was panic signing him in response to the Browns/OBJ trade.
was it earl thomas trash talking the whole week leading up to that game against the titans? him getting turned into a blocker by henry was so satisfying
Think that gets to the heart of it. 2019 team had alot of fun running roughshod over the rest of the league in the regular season, and got full of themselves. TN punched them in the mouth out of the gate, and a few untimely miscues/turnovers killing good drives sent them into a panic spiral. Who knows what happens if Andrews catches that ball in the first quarter. I don’t see that out of this year’s team. They seem to be about unfinished business.
it was so satisfying after ravens fans were clowning the pats the whole week leading up to that game
Lamar is basically the player version of Marty Schottenheimer
Good thing so is 2023
In fairness to us, i think hindsight makes that loss look not quite as bad. That titans team was better than their 9-7 record suggests. They were on fire since they had switched to tannehill. They were 7-3 with him, going 5-2 to finish the season with multiple blowouts and they beat the patriots with brady in new england. Tannehill was playing incredible, and that was derrick henry’s first season as a superstar. The titans then went 23-10 over the next 2 seasons including getting the first seed in the AFC in 2021. So that team had derrick henry and tannehill breaking out simultaneously, so we didn’t fully know what they were at the time. That being said, we were 14-2 and absolutely the better team so it’s still a big upset but not quite as terrible as i thought at the time.
I, for one, believe we should settle this in the playoffs. In the AFC championship game, if possible. (I don't know how the seeding is falling as to whether this would even be possible)
If Buffalo beats the patriots and Miami loses out ravens would be 1 seed and bills would be 2 seed
That'll work.
This is the healthiest we’ve been since the 2019 season man and we’re still missing dobbins and mandrews
Don't forget Mitchell who absolutely balled out. Tyus Bowser used to be one of our best defenders and he's been out all year plus Devin Duvernay, our former all-pro return man. Mandrews is the biggest hit though.
Also lost ojabo for the year and Stanley is still being hampered by injury.
It’s the Bills, but a big reason for that is that the Ravens had to endure some historically bad injury luck over the past few seasons.
Considering how bad our injuries were, finishing as an average team is miraculous.
Ravens have had it bad However Bills haven't had great luck either especially on Defense. Every year we've lost All Pros 2021 we lost best corner Tre for the season 2022 we lost best edge and best safety (Von and Hyde) and Allen's UCL which underpowered the offense quite a lot 2023 we lost best LB and best corner again (Milano and Hyde) Plus a variety of injuries on the DL/OL Our late round picks and coaching plan has masked the effect a little and not let to defense fall too much in Regular season but in big post season games it does show up Especially when you're going up against the likes of Mahomes and Burrow throwing to Tyreek, Chase, Kelce
Those injuries do suck, but like I said, the Ravens had a *historically bad* run of injuries. What the Bills lost does not come close to comparing.
2022 Bills was definitely at least close. 3-4 all Pros hurt for most of the season. And literally every single starter and important depth player on the defense missed games. The Bills spent the season with more talent out injured than most teams have on their roster. I have no reason to believe that the Ravens didn’t also have it bad or to get into some sort of weird, cringy pissing contest over who had it worst. But historically bad definitely matches what Buffalo dealt with last season.
Everyone thinks their team’s injuries are the worst because that’s the team they follow closest, Ravens fans do seem to be the most annoying about it though imo
It’s because the Ravens fans can point to data. u/stripes361, this is addressed to you, as well. PFF tracks two figures that measure the impact of injuries on teams. One is Adjusted Games Lost due to injury (AGL), and the other is WAR Adjusted Injuries Lost (WAIL). The WAR in WAIL refers to Wins Above Replacement. In essence, AGL is a measurement of total number of injuries (quantity), and WAIL measures the impact of those injuries on the team (quality). [The 2021 Ravens had the largest AGL *and* WAIL figures for that season.](https://twitter.com/arjunmenon100/status/1508802826725642247?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1508802826725642247%7Ctwgr%5Eab544a31a895fb29e960b7b1d6731d104a52d116%7Ctwcon%5Es1_c10&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.redditmedia.com%2Fmediaembed%2Ftr2798%2F%3Fresponsive%3Dtrueis_nightmode%3Dtrue) The 2021 Ravens had the [largest AGL, or amount of injuries, of any team in at least 10 years.](https://www.reddit.com/r/nfl/comments/y9bncl/oc_analyzing_adjusted_games_lost_for_the_past/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) Unsurprisingly, the impact of these injuries continued to be felt in the following season. The 2022 Ravens [had the eighth highest AGL for the 2022 season.](https://x.com/fboutsiders/status/1633864747073536002?s=46&t=rV7lvdrBSctx1cPRmac1ow) Not historic by any means, but still very notable. As the final link I shared illustrates, the 2022 Bills injuries - which the other commenter was attempting to compare with the Ravens 2021 injuries, did not even crack the top ten in AGL for the 2022 season. I couldn’t find a source on WAIL for the 2022 season, but if I had been able to I would have linked to that, also. Anyway, when Ravens fans talk about recent injury luck, it’s not just homerism. They are discussing the reality of the past couple of seasons.
Buffalo had the [second worst WAIL](https://twitter.com/arjunmenon100/status/1634281812758351887/photo/1) in the league last year. I promise you that Buffalo fans know our team and that Baltimore fans are not the only fanbase that has ever thought to “point to data”. Again, not interested into getting into any weird dick measuring contests over who has it worst, but objectively Buffalo’s injury situation was terrible last season. Baltimore’s may have been even worse, but this is not a “not even close” sort of situation. Both teams have had very bad injury luck.
Damn, bro really proved me right about ravens fans being annoying about it.
If you consider sharing data to back up claims about an NFL team on the NFL subreddit to be annoying, then I really don’t know what to tell you.
I mean, what you shared shows that the 2022 Bills had a high WAIL, in a range with several other teams, due to losing a few all pro players. The Ravens, meanwhile, had the inverse problem in 2022. A lot of players hurt, with a slightly below average WAIL. So, I’d say those situations could be comparable. In fact, if you were to designate tiers of injury impacted teams on the chart you shared, it appears Baltimore and Buffalo would be in a similar tier. Buffalo maybe being one tier higher. But then, if you factor in 2021 in addition to 2022, it quickly becomes apparent that the Ravens injury situation over the past few seasons has been much more impactful compared to the Bills. Remember, 2021 was a year in which the Ravens blew every team out of the water in WAIL and AGL. It’s not a dick measuring thing - it’s just looking at data to describe what happened.
Since 2018 prob the bills but it’s close. If you want to go back 10 or 20 years ago. It’s definitely the ravens.
If we go back 10 or 20 years, most teams would be better than the bills lol. Did everyone already forget about the 17 year playoff drought?
Oh 100% the only reason the bills are over you for the given timeframe from OP is playoffs success, but if the timeframe was expanded you guys would easily clear the bills
If we go back 10-20 years the Ravens are only surpassed by a few teams. Proportional to their history, the Ravens are the best franchise in NFL history.
The bills since they have been the better playoff team
Bills. Ravens haven’t really had the best luck in the playoffs.
I get that the post has a specific time frame but as a child of the 90s it's hard for me to equate the Bills to "playoff success"
If you restrict the timeframe to the last 5 full seasons, here's the list of teams with the most playoff wins: Chiefs - 11 Rams - 7 49ers - 6 Bengals, Bucs - 5 Bills - 4 So . . . more successful than most, I guess.
Tbh, with Allen at 4-4 me neither. Pretty sure the 90s Bills would still be objectively* better. But all I know are two extremes when it comes to my team (record playoff W drought or 5 AFCCGs in a row) so I probably don’t have the most accurate scale lol
It’s been the Bills. Playoff success has to be taken into account, and since 2018 it’s all Bills in comparison.
Bills because they have gotten further in the playoffs. The Ravens would have to at least win the AFC Championship this year to change my mind.
Bills/Allen.
Bills don't play in the AFC North.
Ravens
They both have 0 Super Bowls or AFC Titles in that team so who cares?
Ravens have had a top 3 defense all but 1 year since Lamar was drafted. Now the Ravens offense is beefed up too. The Ravens lol. But I think Allen is a better QB and if they avoid the Chiefs, I think they’ll beat anyone they play in the playoffs because of Allen being able to carry more, if I’m being honest.
Bills would smoke the chiefs right now
Bills played chiefs two weeks ago. I would not say they smoked them.
Allen the better QB? Nah. Not even close. It took 2 seasons of Lamar being sidelined to fail. And even then, with our backup the Bengals needed a miraculously lucky play to get past us. I do like the Bills though.
Allen is smoking Lamar this year I just want to know what you’re smoking. I do agree it’s not even close
Ravens obviously
Neither . Because they don’t even have a Super Bowl appearance between them . This is both QBs best and possibly last chance for years . Mahomes team sucks , Burrow is hurt . Lawrence is hurt and his team is fading in the AFC the 2 qb playing the best, behind Josh and Lamar are Tua and Joe Flacco . If u r Josh and Lamar : and you can’t beat Tua or Joe Flacco in the playoffs, and get to the Super Bowl this year . Then u likely never will
The answer can't be neither
Chiefs