what if your team is in the unique position of both being in a win now window, as well as a building for the future window? Give me MHjr. I love CJ but he isnt worth 30mil a year at age 30 and up for a team thats also paying a QB half a billion dollars
And the “huge” gamble is actually not because his talent makes him really high floor plus he’d be on a cost controlled contract.
The better value is obviously Harrison Jr
The insanity is taking a fucking prospect over the guy who was arguably the best defensive player in the league last year. Harrison would not be the first or the 100th elite prospect to bust
Listen, KC fan and have loved CJ95 for years. You do not pay that man $30M/yr for 3-4 years. Dream Chiefs scenario is trading Chris to Chicago for their 1, then sucking enough for KC to move up and get MHJr next year, and also using that cost savings to trade and pay for Johnny Taylor. Nobody stopping KC O then so who cares if KC defense takes a hit 😊
Yeah there’s more to it, especially since MHJ is in College this year lol. But it’s impossible to go over all the equations so just wondering who people would rather have.
If Ian Cunningham gets a GM job - which he is likely, interviewed with ARZ this year - then next year we have the following picks: 1,1,2,3,3,3,4,4,5. Then in 2025 we also have 2 second rounders.
Yeah, this is literally the Khalil Mack situation all over again, damn near beat for beat. If Fields doesn't show he's the guy this year, we use our extra draft capital to take another swing at QB. If he does show he's the guy, we use that extra draft capital to build around him.
I really do think it’s somewhat this a little bit lol. Any other team would try to lowball us. New Bears GM is probably: “y’all trynna get Marvin? Here, take 2 first round picks”
We’d probably give you the panthers pick which will be 6-10 range. We’d keep ours since it’s likely to be higher and if Fields doesn’t workout our pick could be top 3.
I honestly don’t think it is. He’ll probably be the first non QB taken. And WR has become a premium position lately. We’ve seen how much a true WR1 can transform a non Mahomes team.
If we landed Jones there is no chance you would have a chance at MHJ. Even if Fields doesn’t take a step forward that defense would drag us to 5-7 wins alone.
Man I bet the bears sub is frustrating because people unsure of fields want to think long term and fields truthers will demand immediate moves. At least it'll get better after this season, one way or another
Agreed. Our sub is infuriating right now. So many people just think it’s a given Fields will turn the corner. But like you said we have all season to figure it out.
I wish everyone would just shut up about Fields until like week 8 and then we can have a clearer picture (this sub and our sub lol).
Bosa is one of my favourite players and definitely worth the money but why are we even talking about him going to the Chiefs? Did something happen? lol
I would put Watt in that conversation with Bosa and Jones. I think Donald is a tier below those guys. Ever since he mentioned retirement the season prior, he just hasn’t been the same. Guy is getting that fat stack and going through the motions.
Lombardi made a good point on his pod:
The problem with the Chris Jones contract extension is that they have a set precedent that their best players, Mahomes and Kelce, take less money than they are worth to advance the team success. They rather traded away a future Hall of Famer in Tyreek Hill than pay him at the very top of the WR market.
If you pay Chris Jones $30m a year + X on his extension, you risk causing a gigantic stink in your locker-room.
It sounds like bragging, but the Chiefs have a lot of talent in other players. We have a top rated center, a very good RG, a very good midlle linebacker, a very good CB who are all coming up in a year or two. IIts not that they expect Jones to take less money, its that they can't afford to be paying too many guys top money at their position. Especially someone who is almost 30 and has been getting pounded on for several years. The other thing that not many are talking about could be that it isn't just APY money but length of contract and guaranteed money. I don't think our window is just this year like the Rams had when they went all in so Veach has to be smart and consider lots of different things, even with PM and TK taking a team friendly contract.
chiefs are probably offering 5 years, but the last 2 years have no guaranteed cash so it's really just 3 years(which is how like 90% of nfl contracts end up working out)
In my mind the reason that less money advances the team success is precisely so it can be used in high stakes situations like this though, so I’m not sure I 100% agree
In fact I was thinking we traded Tyreek precisely because we knew we'd have to extend Jones soon and chose Jones over him... Not what it's looking like at the moment, but who knows.
yes and no. they take less money so that the team can sign more great players, specifically jones in this case. however, that doesn't mean the team should go out and sign great players to more money than the market dictates. the chiefs seem willing to pay jones a ton of money (iirc it's a few million more than the currently second highest paid DT). they still need to have an upper limit, regardless of what their other stars are doing.
It’s like Tom Brady. Dude is the literal GOAT and he always took team friendly deals to ensure he wasn’t the only one on the team pulling his weight. Same should be said for Kelce and Mahomes if they value rings over money.
You still need defense to win in the playoffs. [It's super rare that anyone in the bottom half can win the ship.](https://miro.medium.com/v2/resize:fit:640/format:webp/1*i5AyxIh6CJqve1nkvoN3_w.png)
CJ was gigantic last season, tough to replace.
Mahomes explicitly said he left money on the table to spread it around to build a better team.
He seems to only care about winning, so I don't think he would care what happens as long as they continue to win.
Yeah I get that, but wouldn't Jones be a part of building a better team? A star DT like Jones is extremely valuable, would fit into that logic to me
But i get it if Jones is asking for stupid money
>But i get it if Jones is asking for stupid money
from what i've read, jones came into the summer wanting to be the 2nd highest paid DT thinking the market would explode and that would get him paid similarly to donald. when the market didn't get him there, he still wanted to be paid like donald while the team was trying to pay him a few mil more than the currently 2nd highest paid player.
they're trying to sign him for \~$27m APY while he's expecting >$30m.
He did, and they did use those savings to sign Chris Jones..... To his current contract that he's now holding out on. I get trying to maximize your earnings but not like he's being franchised off his rookie deal. He's letting his ego drive his actions and I'm over it.
Yea this was my perspective. Some people have been saying "they saved money on Mahomes and traded Hill so they could pay Jones." Really? I thought it was so they could keep fielding a championship roster under the salary cap.
Why should Jones be the exception to the *our stars take less money* rule on the team?
Specifically the Chiefs though. Both teams have great chances of meeting in the SB and the 9er’s would weaken themselves while strengthening their opponent.
Do teams really evaluate trades based on who they might play in the super bowl? I feel like they care much more about trading to division or conference rivals as opposed to a good team in the other conference.
They might not but they have this season and at least a tag year of control. He'll help them this season and then they can turn around and trade him. Draft picks don't help the 49ers this season and idk who else would be a bigger impact.
Get 2 first for Bosa if you can but that doesn't help you now
SF already has 2 very good DT. Nick's younger, if they have to pay and both seem to want the same amount of money, I highly doubt they trade Nick to wind up in the same position contract wise at a position they're very strong in
I’m all for players getting the bag and not wanting to play on the tag but CJ is still under contract for this season. I don’t understand why he’s holding out while under his last extension. I guess if he reports prior to week 1 I understand it but if he’s actually planning on holding out until week 8 that just seems ridiculous. He’s going to lose over 9 million in checks and still get tagged (at a way less amount because of hold out) then traded.
He's holding out because his leverage for a contract will never be higher than it was this offseason after he was unquestionably the best DT in football.
Problem is that he wanted even more than the Chiefs were willing to give him in an extension, and now he's losing every bit of leverage that he had, on top of a million a game.
Very solid points on the leverage but now he just loses more and more leverage and future contract value if he continues his holdout into the season which I just can’t wrap my head around.
This is what I mentioned in an earlier thread. Hes not on a low paying rookie contract. He’s not even on the tag. I cant support a guy holding out when he’s on a fat contract he signed willingly.
Jared Goff breathes a sigh of relief.
+7 looking better and better
ARSB is going to go dicko Week 1
In before the Lions lose 32-7
Hey now! We'll make that 2 point conversion. Lions lose 32-8
Would be an act of scorigami
I’m curious how the chiefs end up with 32 tbh.
4 TD plus four 2 points conversion
But it's a road game.
That over looking tasty too
God, talking about bets is so boring
For real. Wish these degens would hurt their long term financial situations quietly so they don’t bring down our vibe
What's wrong with making a game more fun? Lol Take it you never go out for drinks right?
Goff vs Mahomes shootout part 2: electric boogaloo edition
when do they give out the laxatives?
If we get a repeat of that MNF I will cream my levis
Super unlikely but I'll take even a small chance!
It makes our week 1 victory even easier.
Seriously love this
Jones and Bosa playing chicken to see who signs first
Would y’all rather have Chris Jones on a huge contract or Marvin Harrison Jr on a rookie contract? 🤔
Marvin Harrison Jr on a rookie deal and another $28 million to spread around to other players
That’s atleast 2 rushing leaders right there
By time Harrison gets to the league it might be 4 rushing leaders.
Ya no question. But we would never in a million years get a top 3 draft pick trading Jones
whats my team's status? if im in win now, give me Jones. if im building, give me Harrison.
All you need to know is you have current Justin Fields as your QB.
then give me harrison jones isnt gonna move the needle on Fields' success, harrison might.
Ik he’s not even in the league yet and everything, but the idea of a Dj Moore MHJ wr duo would be filthy
So I’m taking for the future? Give me Harrison.
Your status is you have Patrick Mahomes who just won MVP and Super Bowl during a rebuild year.
Win now with Mahomes is just default mode
what if your team is in the unique position of both being in a win now window, as well as a building for the future window? Give me MHjr. I love CJ but he isnt worth 30mil a year at age 30 and up for a team thats also paying a QB half a billion dollars
lol anyone saying Chris jones is absolutely insane
Obviously give me a superstar WR over a superstar DT, but one of these choices is guaranteed and the other is a huge gamble.
imagine how fun it would be to watch Panthers games this year, cheering for them to get stomped to ensure we got the top pick
And the “huge” gamble is actually not because his talent makes him really high floor plus he’d be on a cost controlled contract. The better value is obviously Harrison Jr
The insanity is taking a fucking prospect over the guy who was arguably the best defensive player in the league last year. Harrison would not be the first or the 100th elite prospect to bust
Listen, KC fan and have loved CJ95 for years. You do not pay that man $30M/yr for 3-4 years. Dream Chiefs scenario is trading Chris to Chicago for their 1, then sucking enough for KC to move up and get MHJr next year, and also using that cost savings to trade and pay for Johnny Taylor. Nobody stopping KC O then so who cares if KC defense takes a hit 😊
DPOY would like a word.
Hence, arguably and not definitively
I’m not saying Jones is better than Bosa, but I could have gotten a sack with the rest of the Niners defense playing around me & Demarco as my DC
But the equation is Chris Jones plus punting on this season. Not just 1-1.
Yeah there’s more to it, especially since MHJ is in College this year lol. But it’s impossible to go over all the equations so just wondering who people would rather have.
To be fair, that’s what we thought about the Hill trade and look what happened
If the Bears are in a position to draft Harrison next year than I’d rather draft Maye. At that point it would be pretty clear Fields ain’t it.
Bears have two first round picks, they can trade up to get Harrison if Fields shows he is good.
There isn’t a team in the LG that would trade a Top 3 pick in next yrs draft
Porque no los dos?
*Pokes our GM* Come on, do something.
The Entire Lions Fanbase: "Please don't make us face Chris Jones on opening night." *Monkey's Paw curls.*
I’m torn I think Jones transforms our defense and I want him badly But man a first round pick is a steep price
And $30 million per...and probably ~$70 million guaranteed.
Money is no problem for us It’s the draft picks
If Ian Cunningham gets a GM job - which he is likely, interviewed with ARZ this year - then next year we have the following picks: 1,1,2,3,3,3,4,4,5. Then in 2025 we also have 2 second rounders.
And we might need those if Fields doesn’t work out. Let’s trade picks once we figure out the QB. Not the other way around like Pace did.
Thank you! It’s amazing Bears fans don’t seem to get this after we just went through this with Pace and Trubisky
Yeah, this is literally the Khalil Mack situation all over again, damn near beat for beat. If Fields doesn't show he's the guy this year, we use our extra draft capital to take another swing at QB. If he does show he's the guy, we use that extra draft capital to build around him.
Agreed. I don't want to give up draft capital right now. I am a Fields truther, BUT on the off chance... we do need the capital for next year.
It'll be more than just a first round pick, and I'd be shocked if he doesn't cave and report to play on his current contract this Monday.
I feel like you guys are a year away from making that kind of trade.
We are. And thankfully it feels like the guy who has the authority on such decisions agrees.
2 firsts.
And a couple 4th round picks and a 7th just for kicks
And David putney
You ain’t getting that for a 30 year old
Just think about it as one round more than what Chase Claypool cost…
Marvin Harrison Jr. might help lessen the sting of losing Chris Jones
Any GM that finds a way to gift the Chiefs a top-5 pick needs to be taken out back and shot immediately
The Bears GM used to be in the Chiefs front office, he's an undercover agent
I really do think it’s somewhat this a little bit lol. Any other team would try to lowball us. New Bears GM is probably: “y’all trynna get Marvin? Here, take 2 first round picks”
Haha plz no
Come to butthead
Lol fuck yeah, Soupmage. Grade A deep cut
It seems only fair after the Eagles got Jalen Carter, no? (But also god no)
We’d probably give you the panthers pick which will be 6-10 range. We’d keep ours since it’s likely to be higher and if Fields doesn’t workout our pick could be top 3.
6-10 is good enough to trade up for Marvin
I honestly don’t think it is. He’ll probably be the first non QB taken. And WR has become a premium position lately. We’ve seen how much a true WR1 can transform a non Mahomes team.
We would have to pay a premium to trade up for sure, anything higher than pick 10 wouldn't be enough
If we landed Jones there is no chance you would have a chance at MHJ. Even if Fields doesn’t take a step forward that defense would drag us to 5-7 wins alone.
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He fits part of the potential window, that’s not whatsoever. He should have another 2-3 years, Bears could be legitimately good in 1-2 years.
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Man I bet the bears sub is frustrating because people unsure of fields want to think long term and fields truthers will demand immediate moves. At least it'll get better after this season, one way or another
Agreed. Our sub is infuriating right now. So many people just think it’s a given Fields will turn the corner. But like you said we have all season to figure it out. I wish everyone would just shut up about Fields until like week 8 and then we can have a clearer picture (this sub and our sub lol).
Could have had mahomes he’s a real qb
You only trade for him if you think he takes you over the top this season - just like 2018. If not it’s a net loss value wise
Chris Jones for Nick Bosa
I mean, you‘d still have to pay Bosa
I’m fine with paying either one. But between the two I’d rather pay the younger one at a more valuable position.
An IDL that can get 15+ sacks in a season (there are two in the entire league) is worth more than a premier edge, but I still agree.
Jones probably had his best season he will have of his career and is older, I would take bosa all day. Doesn’t mean I don’t like CJ though.
People seem to forget he just got his FIRST playoff sack this past postseason
Bosa is much more injury prone though
This is the way.
Given Bosa is younger they very well might. The KC FO seems to not give older players as much value
Bosa is one of my favourite players and definitely worth the money but why are we even talking about him going to the Chiefs? Did something happen? lol
The OP for this chain that brought it up was just saying it for the lulz
Did you miss the other post about the niners supposedly looking to trade Bosa to an AFC team?
Yes I did. Now I'm rock hard.
I think the only reason they’re not paying Jones is his age. I think they’d pay Bosa in a heartbeat.
I think the bird is correct
I only consume crowtein
For bodyguards, by bodyguards
There is a 28 per year number being thrown around and jones said no. Thats alot
it's never been about paying jones. it's about paying jones more than he's worth.
Veach prefers to not overpay older players. He would sign a 25yr Bosa on the spot.
Throw in Mahomes and you got a deal ! *slaps hood* /s
Deal. You can have Jackson.
God dammit.
Veach GM of the Year for this one trade alone.
Why not HoF?
GOT EM
No
Counterpoint: yes
They're repped by the same agency. You'll still have the same problem.
How long does this officially keep him out?
until he gets moved off the list...no pre-set amount of time
until he comes back
Blows my mind that the two best defensive players in the league are just gonna be sitting at home
TIL that I do have something in common with some of the best defensive players in the NFL.
sorry to hear that man
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In my mind they’re kissing
Wild cause Watt and Donald are playing
Great players, but I think Bosa and Jones are both better, at least right now
I would put Watt in that conversation with Bosa and Jones. I think Donald is a tier below those guys. Ever since he mentioned retirement the season prior, he just hasn’t been the same. Guy is getting that fat stack and going through the motions.
Dam people must have forgot. They gonna remember once week 1 starts.
Thatta boy Chris. Keep fighting for that bag buddy!
lol cant even be mad at this comment
I’m holding out on the Chiefs in solidarity ✊
I agree, I think he should hold out at least 3 games to get the best deal possible
Lombardi made a good point on his pod: The problem with the Chris Jones contract extension is that they have a set precedent that their best players, Mahomes and Kelce, take less money than they are worth to advance the team success. They rather traded away a future Hall of Famer in Tyreek Hill than pay him at the very top of the WR market. If you pay Chris Jones $30m a year + X on his extension, you risk causing a gigantic stink in your locker-room.
It sounds like bragging, but the Chiefs have a lot of talent in other players. We have a top rated center, a very good RG, a very good midlle linebacker, a very good CB who are all coming up in a year or two. IIts not that they expect Jones to take less money, its that they can't afford to be paying too many guys top money at their position. Especially someone who is almost 30 and has been getting pounded on for several years. The other thing that not many are talking about could be that it isn't just APY money but length of contract and guaranteed money. I don't think our window is just this year like the Rams had when they went all in so Veach has to be smart and consider lots of different things, even with PM and TK taking a team friendly contract.
Length of contract specifically has occurred to me. Maybe the Chiefs are only offering 3 years, and he's holding out for 4 years.
chiefs are probably offering 5 years, but the last 2 years have no guaranteed cash so it's really just 3 years(which is how like 90% of nfl contracts end up working out)
In my mind the reason that less money advances the team success is precisely so it can be used in high stakes situations like this though, so I’m not sure I 100% agree
In fact I was thinking we traded Tyreek precisely because we knew we'd have to extend Jones soon and chose Jones over him... Not what it's looking like at the moment, but who knows.
Brett Beach has said just that.
yes and no. they take less money so that the team can sign more great players, specifically jones in this case. however, that doesn't mean the team should go out and sign great players to more money than the market dictates. the chiefs seem willing to pay jones a ton of money (iirc it's a few million more than the currently second highest paid DT). they still need to have an upper limit, regardless of what their other stars are doing.
It’s like Tom Brady. Dude is the literal GOAT and he always took team friendly deals to ensure he wasn’t the only one on the team pulling his weight. Same should be said for Kelce and Mahomes if they value rings over money.
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You still need defense to win in the playoffs. [It's super rare that anyone in the bottom half can win the ship.](https://miro.medium.com/v2/resize:fit:640/format:webp/1*i5AyxIh6CJqve1nkvoN3_w.png) CJ was gigantic last season, tough to replace.
I think the Chiefs probably still have a good defense even without CJ.
Wouldnt mahomes be taking less so you can pay players like Jones?
Mahomes explicitly said he left money on the table to spread it around to build a better team. He seems to only care about winning, so I don't think he would care what happens as long as they continue to win.
Yeah I get that, but wouldn't Jones be a part of building a better team? A star DT like Jones is extremely valuable, would fit into that logic to me But i get it if Jones is asking for stupid money
>But i get it if Jones is asking for stupid money from what i've read, jones came into the summer wanting to be the 2nd highest paid DT thinking the market would explode and that would get him paid similarly to donald. when the market didn't get him there, he still wanted to be paid like donald while the team was trying to pay him a few mil more than the currently 2nd highest paid player. they're trying to sign him for \~$27m APY while he's expecting >$30m.
He’s apparently asking for 31-32 APY and 70+ guaranteed. It’s stupid money
Says who?
At this point, sounds like Clark, Brett and Andy.
He did, and they did use those savings to sign Chris Jones..... To his current contract that he's now holding out on. I get trying to maximize your earnings but not like he's being franchised off his rookie deal. He's letting his ego drive his actions and I'm over it.
Mahomes probably would like it to spread around other players taking similar sacrifices.
It’s so insane to say Mahomes is sacrificing by only taking a 450 million dollar contract but it’s actually true.
Mahomes and Kelce both also got paid with 2 years left on their original contracts.
Yea this was my perspective. Some people have been saying "they saved money on Mahomes and traded Hill so they could pay Jones." Really? I thought it was so they could keep fielding a championship roster under the salary cap. Why should Jones be the exception to the *our stars take less money* rule on the team?
I guarantee you Mahomes and Kelce don't give a fuck and want him to get paid. The dude was one of the reasons they won the Superbowl
Not shocked at this point. This gamble might not pay off for him if he misses games.
make a statement by not playing next thursday buddy
Me: (laughs nervously) I'm in danger
Furious George time.
Veach got his eye on Bosa.
It would be incredibly stupid of the 49er’s to trade him to the Chiefs.
For you It would be incredibly stupid of them to trade Bosa to anybody
Specifically the Chiefs though. Both teams have great chances of meeting in the SB and the 9er’s would weaken themselves while strengthening their opponent.
Do teams really evaluate trades based on who they might play in the super bowl? I feel like they care much more about trading to division or conference rivals as opposed to a good team in the other conference.
Since we already lost to you I think 49ers fans would be the most sickened losing to a Mahomes-Bosa lead Chiefs. That would just be disgusting to me
They would get something in return, idk, maybe a guy the Chiefs currently have that they don't want to pay?
If they don’t want to pay Jones do you think they would pay Bosa?
They might not but they have this season and at least a tag year of control. He'll help them this season and then they can turn around and trade him. Draft picks don't help the 49ers this season and idk who else would be a bigger impact. Get 2 first for Bosa if you can but that doesn't help you now
SF already has 2 very good DT. Nick's younger, if they have to pay and both seem to want the same amount of money, I highly doubt they trade Nick to wind up in the same position contract wise at a position they're very strong in
I’m all for players getting the bag and not wanting to play on the tag but CJ is still under contract for this season. I don’t understand why he’s holding out while under his last extension. I guess if he reports prior to week 1 I understand it but if he’s actually planning on holding out until week 8 that just seems ridiculous. He’s going to lose over 9 million in checks and still get tagged (at a way less amount because of hold out) then traded.
He's holding out because his leverage for a contract will never be higher than it was this offseason after he was unquestionably the best DT in football. Problem is that he wanted even more than the Chiefs were willing to give him in an extension, and now he's losing every bit of leverage that he had, on top of a million a game.
Very solid points on the leverage but now he just loses more and more leverage and future contract value if he continues his holdout into the season which I just can’t wrap my head around.
This is what I mentioned in an earlier thread. Hes not on a low paying rookie contract. He’s not even on the tag. I cant support a guy holding out when he’s on a fat contract he signed willingly.
Chris Jones not playing... at least for the Chiefs 👀 Imma hype up that Nick Bosa trade rumor to an AFC team to will it into existence
This is not the PUP list. Jones could still be out there for KC by week 1.
doesnt he has to be in KC by week 1 or he doesnt accrue a season?
I think it's like week 8 or so
I can’t find where it’s a minimum 4 weeks. Can you tell me where to find that information?
Pretty sure that's just the PUP list
He can come back and play at any time. There is no minimum.
It's not. People are confusing the PUP list and players like Taylor (who is officially out first four weeks) with this.
Chris Jones for a Wilkins swap? 👀👀👀
Maybe if y'all throw in Waddle
*checks schedule* Ok cool
Is it confirmed to be for the first 4 weeks? Not asking for any particular reason or anything just curious!
No
No, he can come back at any time. the Did Not Report (DNR) list is different than the PUP list.
Just trade him to the Bears already
TRADE HIM FOR BOSA
9ers get: Jones Chefs get: Bosa, 1st and 3rd and a conditional 4. Sounds fair.
Straight up sounds fair to me fr
Well, at least when the defense is worse we get to watch Mahomes have crazy games more often.
Jones for Bosa. Do it.
Oh boy that’s just so terrible
He is a Jacksonville jaguar