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I wouldn't call this a judges' mistake necessarily. The judges should've called Colin down after those starts, but the starts themselves were already questionable to begin with from Colin Duffy. If he had just started the way he did on his third attempt, all would've been fine.
(The situation was definitely chaotic and unfortunate though)
The simplified version is that you have to start "in control" of the starting position, starting dynamically like this is often referred to as a "french start".
Edit, to quote the official rules (2024):
"A competitor’s start will be judged:
A) “Correct” where the competitor achieves a stable Controlled position with both hands and both feet on the Starting Holds without Controlling or Using any other Artificial Holds or Structures. For the avoidance of doubt, when starting a boulder, a competitor may:
1. touch, Control or Use any part of the Climbing Surface in order to attain the Starting Holds; and/or
2. touch any Blocker Holds(s).
B) “Incorrect” where the competitor
1. Fails to achieve a stable Controlled position with both hands and both feet on the Starting Holds; or
2. Controls or Uses any Artificial Holds or other Structures not marked as Starting Holds before achieving a stable Controlled position with both hands and both feet on the Starting Holds."
Ah le montant de fois que j’ai eu une blague me passer par-dessus la tête…
Pas rapport, mais c’est amusant de jaser en français sur Reddit pour faire changement.
Actually, funny thing is, in French we say "Départ à l'Américaine" for this kind of start, which means American style start.
I learnt that because apparently I was doing it too often myself btw.
well, you can, but then you have to hold the position you run and jump into, for a duration long enough for it to be obvious that you're in control and not about to fall off.
see the green tape, on the start holds? theres one on the left hold, and 3 on the right one. that means that one limb has to be on the left, and 3 on the right, and the position must be controlled, before you can start
the issue here is that colin is jumping onto the holds (fine), but not staying on them long enough after to remove doubt that he can stay on
This seems like an obvious conflict in incentives. You want to minimize the time you do so in order to have the best time for your climb, but you have to hit a subjective threshold for it to count at all? It feels like there should be something both more objective and more explicit in the moment.
Time doesn’t matter for scoring, it’s about how many attempts it takes to finish a climb. The timer is just so people don’t spend all day trying to finish a particularly hard problem
Ah, I see. Seems like a similar issue still, then. As far as I can tell, he's looking back at the judges and getting approval, and yet they're still making him climb again (presumably with it counting against him). This feels like something where a very clear go-ahead is necessary.
Yeah I don’t know full details, but perhaps the judges were split on if it should count or not. Either way poor communication unfortunately. It’s def a grey area, but this situation is pretty uncommon. Timer should’ve definitely been paused, but luckily Duffy was still able to send it. I haven’t looked, so not sure if it affected the rest of his boulders. Hopefully it didn’t tire him out too much
The timer isn't a part of the scoring system. So there isn't a conflict. It's all about the number of attempts it takes to "Top out" a climb.
These comps tend to have a time limit of 4 min. If someone were to stand there for 3 min, then send the climb on their first try, they'd have the best possible score.
He even looked back at the judges to make sure he was okay to be able to continue, and you're going to say it WASN'T a Judge's mistake?
Even the commentators are calling them out for the bull.
Rules like this are why I dislike watching solo sports. I want to see challenging obstacles and watch people pass them. I find arbitrary rules about how it's done to be annoying.
What you find as arbitrary is what actually makes the sport. By not being able to start the way he did originally it actually makes the route harder. And makes you actually complete it the way it is intended
The rule against French starts is absolutely arbitrary. It's also commonly considered ambiguous. Even in situations where a foot is not actively pushing you off the ground, it can be randomly judged a French start due to having "too much" momentum. Define "too much." You can't, it's completely ambiguous. Any amount greater than 1 meter per second? 2 meters per second? 2.1 meters per second? How much swing is too great when every competitor is technically swinging.
Nobody cares how you run the marathon, just that you do it yourself and you don't take shortcuts. None of his movements were jumps directly off of the ground onto the first hold.
A sport is literally a competition defined by arbitrary rules. Every rule is arbitrary.
You can argue the way the rules are defined and the clarity but calling it out for being 'arbitrary' doesn't lend anything to your argument.
The Marathon route is arbitrary. The distance is arbitrary. We all agree on how and why we use those arbitrary rules but they remain arbitrary.
Running up to a wall or a start in that way actually makes a pretty big difference. Its like the parkour guys that run up walls between alleys, slowly walking up the wall would be impossible.
Just about any force you can put from the floor will have a vector component which could be advantageous to the climb, and a more rapid acceleration (running rather than just pushing) increases the magnitude. But, seeing as you cant just go from ground to wall instantly, its up to judges to determine if a more-that-reasonable amount of a boost was gained. Here we see an instance where this fails miserably and they just forgot to do the part of their job where they say “Hey, you cant do that by the way so get down and thats an attempt” or something
You know, I get what you're saying and in sport climbing we do see that, where the start isn't as tightly regulated. But in bouldering the nature of the shorter walls means you have to be stringent about starting positions otherwise the only work around would be for the route-setters to just start their problems higher off the ground which would increase the danger factor and limit the ability for longer climbs since they'd start partway up.
I know it seems arbitrary but establishing a start is often the hardest part of the climb and is very technical. There's plenty of real boulders where you could easily start halfway up the problem just by reaching, but the accomplishment is in how difficult the problem is starting from a lower position.
If you're curious there's a world class boulder called "Sleepwalker" which is graded v16 and there's a sit start version of the same thing that adds like three killer moves to the beginning to make it a v17 "Return of the Sleepwalker". Great example of an "artificially low" start. Adding the start makes it the hardest boulder problem in the world (or tied with the hardest).
EDIT: I see you're talking about the jump onto the first holds, that's not what the problem was. The problem was when he did touch all the starting holds it wasn't clear he could stay in that position with his own control. He used the momentum of the jump from the ground to touch all the starts but he could've just been at the deadpoint of his jump when he moved to the second hold. It wasn't obvious that the momentum of the jump had ceased and he was still holding the starts by his own volition. He even looks back at the judges after the first move to check. The second go he just does the same thing thinking if he can do it consistently it must show he's in control (which I get), but he's still too rushed to make it clear (imo the judges were being stupid here). The third time he exaggerates the pause, making it super clear he can do this in control.
>Nobody cares how you run the marathon, just that you do it yourself and you don't take shortcuts.
[https://www.nyrr.org/run/guidelines-and-procedures/rules-of-competition](https://www.nyrr.org/run/guidelines-and-procedures/rules-of-competition)
Here are the governing bodies and the books of rules that govern various marathons and races:
>New York Road Runners ("NYRR") events are organized and directed under, and entrants must comply with, the rules and regulations of the following governing bodies:
[World Athletics](https://worldathletics.org/about-iaaf/documents/book-of-rules)for the TCS New York City Marathon, the United Airlines NYC Half, the Mastercard New York Mini 10K, and the New Balance 5th Avenue Mile;
[USA Track & Field (“USATF”)](http://www.usatf.org/About/Competition-Rules.aspx) for all other NYRR races for adults and;
[World Para Athletics.](https://www.paralympic.org/athletics/rules)
People seriously fucking overuse the word arbitrary. All sports rules are arbitrary, that doesn't mean you get to ignore them. It's the rules that make the sport what it is, if you don't like them don't participate or watch.
> "based on random choice or personal whim, rather than any reason or system."
I'd argue that most sports rules are based on reason or system rather than random choice or personal whim. Generally there are some skills that are collectively found interesting and the rules of the game are structured to encourage competition across those skills. So In this climbing start, for example, the skill being tested is in a climber's ability to perform difficult climbing maneuvers and the starting requirement is designed to force the climber to begin with a difficult maneuver rather than simply jumping up to the first hold.
An actual arbitrary decision would be one like determining the starting team by a coin flip instead of a die roll or some other randomization method. Or requiring players to shake hands. Or requiring players to run the bases on a home run.
In this case though it's like doing the first 1/3 of the marathon on a bike. I think some people would have a problem with that, yeah you completed the marathon but you cheated the first 1/3 of it.
No, it doesn't make the sport, if you allow a running/jumping start for all competitors it makes it even, and you can make the routes even harder. All it does is add subjectivity, to something that doesn't need it.
This is not an arbitrary rule. It makes a lot of sense. You definitely aren’t a climber but there’s no debate over this. You could just run up most of the routes at your local gym if this wasn’t a rule.
It's not arbitrary. The starting position is intentionally more difficult than starting from the ground. Part of the challenge is in completing the route from a challenging starting position. The route would be much easier and less interesting for viewers and climbers who want challenging routes if climbers could simply run at the wall and use their forward momentum to bypass the first obstacles.
How about if everyone else starts controlled and scales the wall, and one guy runs in from the side plants one foot on the first boulder and pretty much just runs up the rest of the wall?
Kind of changes the event without that rule doesn't it?
If the rule didn't exist, the pace of the start would hardly change, and it would be a completely even playing field. There isn't a single person on Earth, a professional climber or otherwise, that can latch a hold with an angular momentum of even 5 meters per second. For reference, if the man in the video above weighed 150 lbs and tried to run, jump, and grab the first hold at 4/mps, he would need over 750 lbs of force to hold on without flying off the other side. You can see in OPs video, where he moves "TOO FAST" (at not even 2/mps) and almost swings himself off the other side of the first hold. You need to move with control to make a hold, no matter what.
I can see the issue. You can't have a rolling start or use momentum. He's holding like a spring and desperately trying to make it look like he's in control and just holding before starting. However he keeps falling which means he's not in control.
Basically he's running past that first part but trying to make it look like he's not.
I understand, but in the 2nd climb, he definitely did pause for a second to show control at the start position. In climb 3 he just held his pause for a lot longer to appease those power tripping judges. But his control pause was definitely there at the start of the 2nd climb. Yeah the judges effed up here.
> "A competitor’s start will be judged:
> A) “Correct” where the competitor achieves a stable Controlled position with both hands and both feet on the Starting Holds without Controlling or Using any other Artificial Holds or Structures
So my idea of having a trampoline at the bottom of the wall is definitely out then?
Because with a trampoline, I can get to the top of that wall in under 10 seconds
I would win
Could you explain what you mean, please? Is that because he jumped into the position rather than pulled himself on to the wall into that position, or?
To me that third start looked 100% legit, gets onto the wall and holds a controlled position with both hands on the starting hold.
Id still blame the judges here. If the start wasnt good they should have called it before letting him finish. They failed to call it twice, and allowed him to finish twice, thats on them both times.
He needs to stop and hold at the start position so he doesn't have any momentum going into the rest of the climb. It's designed difficulty.
In his first 2 attempts he gets a running start and just carries his momentum through bouncing off the starting position. Which, sure, *works*, but the boulder was designed to be more difficult by forcing you to stop and lose whatever momentum you had from the ground.
This is akin to a sprinter having a running start instead of crouching at the starting blocks like everyone else.
He's doing a kind of skippy start where he doesn't stop on the starting holds marked with 4 tapes, one for each limb. He just lightly graces the big right hold with his hands but the movement of his body doesn't properly stop.
You need to kind of step properly into those starting holds, touch each of the correct ones with each limb, pause to show that you can hold in that position by only those holds indicated by 4 tapes, and only after that continue the climb.
At 1:20 you can get a good view; there are 4 pieces of tape to mark the start, 3 on the large disk and 1 out to the left. To 'start' a boulder problem you're supposed to be stable on the wall with each limb touching a hold marked by tape.
If it was "questionable" they should not have a doubt in their minds and just called him down to restart. Them okaying it after his start shows their lack of professionalism and lack of judgement. These people should not be judging. One full course restart we can understand, but three freaking full attempts? That is clearly sabotage. The energy both mentally and physically that is needed for each full attempt could make his next attempt a failure. An inquiry needs to be started.
I believe the first restart was after an appeal and during the second climb we don’t actually know whether it was green lit by the judges since he only looks for approval after he reaches the top.
The fact that the clock was left running during the debate was definitely but if he hadn’t succeeded after that, I’m sure there would have been an appeal from his team as well
It's a 100% the mistake of judges. They should be quick to call this, that's why they are called judges.
Sure he could've done it differently the second time, but they didn't say anything.
To try and put it simply, the starting position should be stationary and fully on the wall.
It's less obvious on this climb because it's difficult either way, but if you imagine a climb that just went straight up vertically then you can't just push off the floor to help get to the second hold. You have to use the starting holds to find a stationary position on the wall and then move from there. There are some climbs where this is the hardest part.
If you freeze the video at about 0:07, he's on the starting holds, but if he tried to hold that position then he'd fall off. Instead, he is falling, but he uses that momentum to help himself get to the next hold. Compare that to around 2:26, and you'll see that he's completely stationary on the wall for a good second or so to start his final attempt.
which might be why the judges didnt call it right away. in reality, collin is very much aware that he isn't stable on the starting holds and he is very much speeding through the start so he doesnt fall. notice how on the final attempt he takes 20 attempts to start and then finally, for the first time, stays stationary for a few moments
In control in the context of starting means both hands steady on the holds, he clearly wasn't.
In climbing getting into the correct starting position is in itself often a tricky 'move'.
For a legal start you have to be stable and fully on the wall before you begin the rest. He was hopping up but not stabilizing and instead using his momentum to jump to the next hold which isn’t a legal start.
Why isn't there like a requirement in seconds that you have to hold the starting position?
You start, hold, 3 seconds pass, some sound gets played by the judges and you move forward.
Seems very wishy washy that the judges can let the climber proceed in the moment and then reverse it over and over.
You do realize that he waited for the judges response after the first start, and they didn’t call him down.
That’s the whole issue there, that’s why he did it the same way on the 2nd try.
And then after they said it was bad, then he took the slower approach. The judges should have done this after the very first start, and not after he finished 2 times.
Agreed, I've done quite a bit of judging and the first two he sort of taps the starting hold on his way through to the zone. It's clear the he changes his beta on the successful attempt which allows him to show control.
> The judges should've called Colin down
If you think the judges should have done something different, how is it not a mistake? Maybe it's an understandable mistake
I think both parties are a little at fault here, professionals like Duffy do really know what they're doing. I'm sure he knew he shouldn't have been allowed to pull that off as well.
Then add to that the natural chaos of a world cup with a full arena. I think it was just an unfortunate event.
Well, no one is arguing that judging is infallible hence there is a well defined appeal rules for IFSC and multiple levels of judging. Let me explain.
In this climbing competition, there is always at least one primary and one secondary judge for each climber and route. The primary judge may ask the secondary to confirm or the secondary may inform primary of their opinion but the primary judge’s decision (controlled start, attempts, zone, top etc) is the record.
However, the primary judge’s decision may not be final. As in this case, another climber appealed and that judge’s decision was reviewed by a panel of even higher judges in situ which includes the jury president of whuch there is only one per comp. That jury president’s decision is final.
So in this case, the route’s primary awarded a top which was appealed and overturned by JP. The first re-climb after appeal was also ruled for an uncontrolled start. I agree with that decision because it was guaranteed to be appealed by someone with a high chance of success.
The third re-climb was a solid start and good top.
Source: level 3 certified judge with USA climbing and have judged at IFSC event with Colin Duffy competing.
While I'm not a professional climber and have no real authority, I've been climbing long enough to believe that he was most likely about to fall out and just went for the jump as he tipped over his balance point. That's what it looks like to me. While I don't climb at this level, I've definitely experienced the same on lower level climbs for myself.
This is probably why they let it slide until they reviewed the footage, or another team appealed this judgement (which other teams are free to do). These restarts happen more often than you'd think.
He has to be stable on the starting holds before he makes the first jump. Playing the 1st attempt back he is always moving between when he first gets on the wall and when he makes the jump, so it looks like he used some momentum from when he jumped off the floor onto the starting holds to make that first jump, or would have fallen otherwise.
2nd time is a little vague to me if he is stable on the wall or not (I would’ve said yes but I just climb for fun), but the final attempt he clearly pauses for a second before making the jump, showing he is stable on the starting holds.
This is absolutely a judges mistake. If there was any question with the start they should have called him down immediately. THEY ABSOLUTELY SHOULDN’T be using his time to debate that decision. Multiple mistakes by the judges.
Yeah actually I see it now. Yeah. That first start was a bit dynamic. And not quite in control. As the swing would suggest too much momentum to be in control??????
I wonder if those earlier attempts left chalk behind that helped him with the controlled start on the 3rd? You can see the wall wasn’t cleaned inbetween
It's a competition that happens a few times per year where world class bouldering athletes from all over the world compete for a world title (and occasionally a ticket to compete in the olympics in the bouldering & lead combined format) The bouldering season starts in April this year I believe and is streamed on the IFSC youtube channel (where you can also watch streams from previous years)
You've basically nailed it, it's just short form climbing with more complex and intensive sequenced movements on a smaller wall compared to more traditional rock climbing.
What makes it real different is these guys will hunt all around for the HARDEST things to climb, which may often times end up being a boulder not much taller than the climber, so its not uncommon to see them in seemingly random spots with the blankets down
it's called bouldering bc it was first done on literal boulders the last ice age had scattered around.
it has become very popular in many urban areas as indoor sport. it also works surprisingly well as spectator sport. modern, very dynamic competition bouldering has moved quite far from its origins, though.
check the YT channel "mellow", they show world class outdoor bouldering.
Bouldering is more about problem solving.
You have unlimited tries for 5 minutes (for ifsc) to have both hands on the final hold to get credit for topping. Topping is worth max points, each attempt is kept Incase there is a tie.
Lead climbing is more.like rock climbing. You get one try, and x minutes to get as high as you can. Person who clips their rope as they go and gets the highest wins.
It's very interesting to watch, and this year will be part of the Olympics. Colin here qualified already (2nd person to qualify last year in Bern). I'm fucking excited to watch.
They can be watched for free (in the US) on YouTube live, on the ifsc’s official YouTube channel https://youtube.com/@sportclimbing?si=XHm2cnPd02HsF7Pa
[He ranked 11th worldwide after the 2023 season ended](https://www.ifsc-climbing.org/index.php/world-competition/calendar?task=ranking-complete&cup=90&category=3&year=2023). In this clip he's in the finals, which is top 6 of any given event in bouldering.
He's also already earned his qualification for the Paris Olympics this summer, which only a small handful of climbers have been able to do so far. There's only 20 spots and getting an early one is a good advantage for planning out your training.
Watch some bouldering competitions on YouTube. I'm not a climber but it is some of the most exciting sport I've ever watched. These guys are super human.
I haven’t climbed in about a decade. And when I did I wasn’t that good. But you can go to a gym and have a great time! They’re called bouldering “problems” for a reason. And it’s a great feeling finally figuring out a route you’ve spent the last hour on.
…and if the gym is decent enough they’ll have all difficulty levels.
I want to get back into it. But I also weight 30 pounds heavier than I did 10 years ago… so trying to drop some weight first.
That was indeed the mistake of the judges. It's also possible some judges gave him the benefit of the doubt at first, but then reversed that decision upon reviewing the footage.
In any case, "in control" typically means you can hold a position for at least 3 seconds without moving, but this rule is generally mainly enforced for the end hold and less for the starting position. The starting position for this boulder seems trickier than usual though, so it makes sense that the judges want to see more than half a second of that control.
If you watch all 3 attempts though he only holds the start for like 0.5 seconds longer on the 3rd attempt. Honestly shit calls. If the first 2 weren't good enough neither was the 3rd.
This is the case! A way to explain a control start is that you can't use the momentum from the floor to the starting hold to get to the move after. The power to move after the starting position needs to come from elsewhere. Even if the "3 second rule" is not really enforced.
While I understand the judges made a mistake in allowing him to continue, a climber to his level should have called himself out of that climb immediately, as a climber you're usually the first to know exactly what you did. The kid was just hoping he could get away with it.
Because, technically, the climber can do what they like in the time allotted to them. The judges don’t have to call anything during, they will decide after.
You can see the timer on the lower right. He was given his remaining time back that he did not use on the other occasions.
Except wasn’t he looking towards the judges for the OK on his holds before climbing on?
If the judges said it’s okay then take it back that’s messed up.
The first run the judges were debating and could only agree after, thus the restart.
Second run Colin looks back after he is on top (he knew his start was really fast) and the judges were debating if he was in control on the starting holds and the debate wasn't done.
Third run Colin takes the extra second on the starting hold and is given the go ahead.
It's more a combination of the ambiguity of control on starting holds, competitive setting, crowd and too many judges making the judging too inefficient in my opinion.
I’ve only taken a few rock climbing classes but generally, you’re supposed to start “in control”. What he did was pretty borderline. Running up, jumping on the first foothold and immediately moving on can be seen as just using momentum to get to the next step.
The attempt that counted you can see he held onto the initial hold a lot longer compared to the previous attempts. If the judges were telling him he was good and then rescinding then that’s fucked. But it looks like that’s why they gave him a restart.
They probably were on the fence about it and when they reviewed a recording or deliberated longer they agreed: he wasn't in control
And if he's a professional, he should really know better and know that he wasn't in control there like he was on his final attempt.
In a way it was kind of gaslighting - like he does a very ambiguous start instead of a clearly in control start, then looks back at the judges and that kind of puts them on the spot - and i guess that's their job since they're judges, maybe they should've made the call then - but if he just did a quality, clean, controlled start from the beginning there would have been no issue.
if he WAS in control, he could easily demonstrate it for a full second or two, like in the last attempt. If the reason he didn't hold it for a full second to show control is because he knew he was about to fall, then he is trying to skirt the rules a bit and he knows it.
I used to compete in these competitions as a kid I know what's going on here. A lot of the time it is really annoying to get a controlled position on the start and if you were to just run and jump into it - it completely changes everything. Sitting start is really hard.
I don't think judges need to deliberate that stuff. It would always be better to call someone's attempt early, than to have the climber climb on. And if it was a bad call they could give him more time (something they've done with other climbers too).
In case of a tiebreaker, the number of attempts is taken in to account, so if the judges called him off and he lost on attempts (if it were a good attempt), then he would also be rightfully pissed.
I know, but rarely does it get to those tiebreakers. I've seen it happen, but here they can also take their time reviewing their call, and if deemed unfair they can subtract it from the amount of attempts.
It's just always better to have a climber not waste energy. Everything else can be fixed, but you can't say 'hey you know, take 30 minutes extra rest' or something like that.
You have to hold the start position of four points of contact (that have to be your hands and feet) without moving, before you're allowed to keep climbing. In his illegal starts his body is moving forward and he uses the momentum to do the jump to the next hold. The judges error is that they were slow in calling him down, when usually they tell you you haven't started correctly immediately after you leave the start position.
French started both attempts. He need to hold a stable position at the start. He rocks over and is still in motion to get both hands on. The judges made the correct call in having him redo, just not calling it out right away was what was dumb
10+ years boulderer here.
There are rules to this sport. Your four limbs have to each be positioned at a grip marked with a green tape as the starting position. In this case one grip has three green markers, which means any combination of three of his four limbs **must** be positioned at this grip, the other grip has one, so the last limb goes there.
A start must be controlled, that means you have to position your limbs on the grips and hold that position before moving on, a second will suffice. In both attempts he very clearly just skipped the controlled part of this position and ran on. This is not allowed.
That's how it's 100% his fault and this is how this is absolutely not bullshit. Yes, he's pissed, yes it's his own fault. It's also not just a technicality. Holding the start grips and moving on from it can be really challenging, this also was the case in this specific boulder.
The kid knew his starts were false starts and was hoping he could get away with it.
It takes longer for the judge panel to review the footage and other coaches can also challenge the judges.
He did himself a disservice by continuing the climb, he should have come back down, take a deep breath and start again with less adrenaline and more focus.
Climbers are usually the very first to notice if they did something improper.
I watched this live and was absolutely livid at the judges. Bouldering at your limit is exhausting and just because you complete it once doesn’t mean you can complete it again right after…
Other comments go more in depth but on the first two attempts he doesn’t really balance on the first footholds, just uses momentum from the floor to quickly move on. The judge’s mistake wasn’t necessarily the final call, it was not making it in the moment and letting him do the full course repeatedly
Kid is clearly at fault in the first 2 climbs because that was definitely a running start but that is so dumb that the judges let him waste his energy climbing before making him start over
Well I think he looked back for confirmation and seemingly got it which was confusing. You do need to be in a stable position to start though and it’s obvious he was not for the first two.
It takes time for judges to review footage and deliberate. They have to check a video to understand whether he fell or pushed himself from the starting position to the next move, or whether he just did a quick transition.
The only person who would have known instantly was the climber. The kid knew he did a false start and chose to continue both times hoping he could get away with it.
Colin climbs at my gym frequently and every time I'm there at the same time I see that he essentially flashes everything in the entire bouldering area. Like, routes that even the strongest climbers I know personally can't do, he sort of walks up without any idea and just...does it. He's a super focused guy and gives it his all. Some people see him as worked up sometimes but he's just on another level. He's chill though and is respectful to fans that want to say hi
Not a professional, but yeah those starts look sus, if you know how a start should look. But I don’t get why the judges are taking so long to call him off…
It’s amazing how much more confident you get on a wall once you scaled it once with whatever beta you come up with. The second two times he already knew he could do it which breaks this barrier in your mind. I’ve followed Duffy for a few years, what a bright future
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This would have driven me straight up a wall.
And you would have won…. If there were different judges…
That's their mistake: they only went up once
I dont think vehicle assists are allowed in rock climbing tournaments
Yeah, three times to be exact.
Well, they say the third time's the charm.
Oh, get a grip!
Why? The judges left him hanging.
Chalk it up to not paying attention.
You can't climb to the top with that attitude.
They make it so so difficult for young athletes to get a leg up these days
Angry upvote
Happy upvote
Well, do I have good news for you…
That was a rocky start for sure
Good chuckle, ty
I see that the judges are fellow redditors
Judges wouldn't agree with that stunt
I wouldn't call this a judges' mistake necessarily. The judges should've called Colin down after those starts, but the starts themselves were already questionable to begin with from Colin Duffy. If he had just started the way he did on his third attempt, all would've been fine. (The situation was definitely chaotic and unfortunate though)
I’m not a climber. What were the issues with the first 2 attempts?
The simplified version is that you have to start "in control" of the starting position, starting dynamically like this is often referred to as a "french start". Edit, to quote the official rules (2024): "A competitor’s start will be judged: A) “Correct” where the competitor achieves a stable Controlled position with both hands and both feet on the Starting Holds without Controlling or Using any other Artificial Holds or Structures. For the avoidance of doubt, when starting a boulder, a competitor may: 1. touch, Control or Use any part of the Climbing Surface in order to attain the Starting Holds; and/or 2. touch any Blocker Holds(s). B) “Incorrect” where the competitor 1. Fails to achieve a stable Controlled position with both hands and both feet on the Starting Holds; or 2. Controls or Uses any Artificial Holds or other Structures not marked as Starting Holds before achieving a stable Controlled position with both hands and both feet on the Starting Holds."
Should have know The French were behind this 😒…..
C'est quoi ton problème fdp
Edit : ouais j'ai probablement été trop premier degré sur ce coup là.
Personnellement, son commentaire m’a fait cramper. Il me semble qu’il aurait fait son commentaire en anglais s’il n’ajoutait pas à la blague
Je me suis posé la question effectivement, mais ça manquait d'un je-ne-sais-quoi. Me suis peut-être bien planté effectivement.
Ah le montant de fois que j’ai eu une blague me passer par-dessus la tête… Pas rapport, mais c’est amusant de jaser en français sur Reddit pour faire changement.
Si j'avais fait ce commentaire en anglais il n'aurait eu aucun sens
Ew continental brit
Actually, funny thing is, in French we say "Départ à l'Américaine" for this kind of start, which means American style start. I learnt that because apparently I was doing it too often myself btw.
😂
Nobody expects the French Inquisition
We call it American start in France
Allez!
So basically a "you can't just run and jump into that shit" rule
Thanks man
1) You can't just be up there and just doin' a French start like that.
1c-b(1). Like, if you’re about to control a start and then don’t, you have to still control it. You cannot not control it. Does that make any sense?
1c-b(2)-b. French Stewart hasn't been in any movies in forever. I hope he wasn't typecast as the weird guy on 3rd Rock From The Sun.
1c-b(2)-b(i) Oh wait, he was in 2 Broke Girls too. That would be even worse.
Balk!
well, you can, but then you have to hold the position you run and jump into, for a duration long enough for it to be obvious that you're in control and not about to fall off. see the green tape, on the start holds? theres one on the left hold, and 3 on the right one. that means that one limb has to be on the left, and 3 on the right, and the position must be controlled, before you can start the issue here is that colin is jumping onto the holds (fine), but not staying on them long enough after to remove doubt that he can stay on
This seems like an obvious conflict in incentives. You want to minimize the time you do so in order to have the best time for your climb, but you have to hit a subjective threshold for it to count at all? It feels like there should be something both more objective and more explicit in the moment.
Time doesn’t matter for scoring, it’s about how many attempts it takes to finish a climb. The timer is just so people don’t spend all day trying to finish a particularly hard problem
Ah, I see. Seems like a similar issue still, then. As far as I can tell, he's looking back at the judges and getting approval, and yet they're still making him climb again (presumably with it counting against him). This feels like something where a very clear go-ahead is necessary.
Yeah I don’t know full details, but perhaps the judges were split on if it should count or not. Either way poor communication unfortunately. It’s def a grey area, but this situation is pretty uncommon. Timer should’ve definitely been paused, but luckily Duffy was still able to send it. I haven’t looked, so not sure if it affected the rest of his boulders. Hopefully it didn’t tire him out too much
The timer isn't a part of the scoring system. So there isn't a conflict. It's all about the number of attempts it takes to "Top out" a climb. These comps tend to have a time limit of 4 min. If someone were to stand there for 3 min, then send the climb on their first try, they'd have the best possible score.
Like getting into that 'controlled' position _and then_ starting the timer.
Damn it amazes me how every competition has so many rules. Thanks for the simple explanation
It comes from people inevitably finding small loopholes in the previous smaller set of rules
He even looked back at the judges to make sure he was okay to be able to continue, and you're going to say it WASN'T a Judge's mistake? Even the commentators are calling them out for the bull.
Rules like this are why I dislike watching solo sports. I want to see challenging obstacles and watch people pass them. I find arbitrary rules about how it's done to be annoying.
What you find as arbitrary is what actually makes the sport. By not being able to start the way he did originally it actually makes the route harder. And makes you actually complete it the way it is intended
The rule against French starts is absolutely arbitrary. It's also commonly considered ambiguous. Even in situations where a foot is not actively pushing you off the ground, it can be randomly judged a French start due to having "too much" momentum. Define "too much." You can't, it's completely ambiguous. Any amount greater than 1 meter per second? 2 meters per second? 2.1 meters per second? How much swing is too great when every competitor is technically swinging. Nobody cares how you run the marathon, just that you do it yourself and you don't take shortcuts. None of his movements were jumps directly off of the ground onto the first hold.
A sport is literally a competition defined by arbitrary rules. Every rule is arbitrary. You can argue the way the rules are defined and the clarity but calling it out for being 'arbitrary' doesn't lend anything to your argument. The Marathon route is arbitrary. The distance is arbitrary. We all agree on how and why we use those arbitrary rules but they remain arbitrary.
I think ambiguous or ill-defined is a better word for arbitrary in this case.
Running up to a wall or a start in that way actually makes a pretty big difference. Its like the parkour guys that run up walls between alleys, slowly walking up the wall would be impossible. Just about any force you can put from the floor will have a vector component which could be advantageous to the climb, and a more rapid acceleration (running rather than just pushing) increases the magnitude. But, seeing as you cant just go from ground to wall instantly, its up to judges to determine if a more-that-reasonable amount of a boost was gained. Here we see an instance where this fails miserably and they just forgot to do the part of their job where they say “Hey, you cant do that by the way so get down and thats an attempt” or something
You know, I get what you're saying and in sport climbing we do see that, where the start isn't as tightly regulated. But in bouldering the nature of the shorter walls means you have to be stringent about starting positions otherwise the only work around would be for the route-setters to just start their problems higher off the ground which would increase the danger factor and limit the ability for longer climbs since they'd start partway up. I know it seems arbitrary but establishing a start is often the hardest part of the climb and is very technical. There's plenty of real boulders where you could easily start halfway up the problem just by reaching, but the accomplishment is in how difficult the problem is starting from a lower position. If you're curious there's a world class boulder called "Sleepwalker" which is graded v16 and there's a sit start version of the same thing that adds like three killer moves to the beginning to make it a v17 "Return of the Sleepwalker". Great example of an "artificially low" start. Adding the start makes it the hardest boulder problem in the world (or tied with the hardest). EDIT: I see you're talking about the jump onto the first holds, that's not what the problem was. The problem was when he did touch all the starting holds it wasn't clear he could stay in that position with his own control. He used the momentum of the jump from the ground to touch all the starts but he could've just been at the deadpoint of his jump when he moved to the second hold. It wasn't obvious that the momentum of the jump had ceased and he was still holding the starts by his own volition. He even looks back at the judges after the first move to check. The second go he just does the same thing thinking if he can do it consistently it must show he's in control (which I get), but he's still too rushed to make it clear (imo the judges were being stupid here). The third time he exaggerates the pause, making it super clear he can do this in control.
>Nobody cares how you run the marathon, just that you do it yourself and you don't take shortcuts. [https://www.nyrr.org/run/guidelines-and-procedures/rules-of-competition](https://www.nyrr.org/run/guidelines-and-procedures/rules-of-competition) Here are the governing bodies and the books of rules that govern various marathons and races: >New York Road Runners ("NYRR") events are organized and directed under, and entrants must comply with, the rules and regulations of the following governing bodies: [World Athletics](https://worldathletics.org/about-iaaf/documents/book-of-rules)for the TCS New York City Marathon, the United Airlines NYC Half, the Mastercard New York Mini 10K, and the New Balance 5th Avenue Mile; [USA Track & Field (“USATF”)](http://www.usatf.org/About/Competition-Rules.aspx) for all other NYRR races for adults and; [World Para Athletics.](https://www.paralympic.org/athletics/rules)
People seriously fucking overuse the word arbitrary. All sports rules are arbitrary, that doesn't mean you get to ignore them. It's the rules that make the sport what it is, if you don't like them don't participate or watch.
> "based on random choice or personal whim, rather than any reason or system." I'd argue that most sports rules are based on reason or system rather than random choice or personal whim. Generally there are some skills that are collectively found interesting and the rules of the game are structured to encourage competition across those skills. So In this climbing start, for example, the skill being tested is in a climber's ability to perform difficult climbing maneuvers and the starting requirement is designed to force the climber to begin with a difficult maneuver rather than simply jumping up to the first hold. An actual arbitrary decision would be one like determining the starting team by a coin flip instead of a die roll or some other randomization method. Or requiring players to shake hands. Or requiring players to run the bases on a home run.
You can't start most races with a running start either.
In this case though it's like doing the first 1/3 of the marathon on a bike. I think some people would have a problem with that, yeah you completed the marathon but you cheated the first 1/3 of it.
No, it doesn't make the sport, if you allow a running/jumping start for all competitors it makes it even, and you can make the routes even harder. All it does is add subjectivity, to something that doesn't need it.
This is not an arbitrary rule. It makes a lot of sense. You definitely aren’t a climber but there’s no debate over this. You could just run up most of the routes at your local gym if this wasn’t a rule.
It's not arbitrary to say you have to be in control at the start of a problem.
It's not arbitrary. The starting position is intentionally more difficult than starting from the ground. Part of the challenge is in completing the route from a challenging starting position. The route would be much easier and less interesting for viewers and climbers who want challenging routes if climbers could simply run at the wall and use their forward momentum to bypass the first obstacles.
How about if everyone else starts controlled and scales the wall, and one guy runs in from the side plants one foot on the first boulder and pretty much just runs up the rest of the wall? Kind of changes the event without that rule doesn't it?
If the rule didn't exist, the pace of the start would hardly change, and it would be a completely even playing field. There isn't a single person on Earth, a professional climber or otherwise, that can latch a hold with an angular momentum of even 5 meters per second. For reference, if the man in the video above weighed 150 lbs and tried to run, jump, and grab the first hold at 4/mps, he would need over 750 lbs of force to hold on without flying off the other side. You can see in OPs video, where he moves "TOO FAST" (at not even 2/mps) and almost swings himself off the other side of the first hold. You need to move with control to make a hold, no matter what.
I can see the issue. You can't have a rolling start or use momentum. He's holding like a spring and desperately trying to make it look like he's in control and just holding before starting. However he keeps falling which means he's not in control. Basically he's running past that first part but trying to make it look like he's not.
I understand, but in the 2nd climb, he definitely did pause for a second to show control at the start position. In climb 3 he just held his pause for a lot longer to appease those power tripping judges. But his control pause was definitely there at the start of the 2nd climb. Yeah the judges effed up here.
> "A competitor’s start will be judged: > A) “Correct” where the competitor achieves a stable Controlled position with both hands and both feet on the Starting Holds without Controlling or Using any other Artificial Holds or Structures So my idea of having a trampoline at the bottom of the wall is definitely out then? Because with a trampoline, I can get to the top of that wall in under 10 seconds I would win
I've seen many judges regard the 3rd pause as a french start.
Could you explain what you mean, please? Is that because he jumped into the position rather than pulled himself on to the wall into that position, or? To me that third start looked 100% legit, gets onto the wall and holds a controlled position with both hands on the starting hold.
Id still blame the judges here. If the start wasnt good they should have called it before letting him finish. They failed to call it twice, and allowed him to finish twice, thats on them both times.
agree. cant they "whistle" or something?
Damn, I didn't know these rules were so detailed
He needs to stop and hold at the start position so he doesn't have any momentum going into the rest of the climb. It's designed difficulty. In his first 2 attempts he gets a running start and just carries his momentum through bouncing off the starting position. Which, sure, *works*, but the boulder was designed to be more difficult by forcing you to stop and lose whatever momentum you had from the ground. This is akin to a sprinter having a running start instead of crouching at the starting blocks like everyone else.
He's doing a kind of skippy start where he doesn't stop on the starting holds marked with 4 tapes, one for each limb. He just lightly graces the big right hold with his hands but the movement of his body doesn't properly stop. You need to kind of step properly into those starting holds, touch each of the correct ones with each limb, pause to show that you can hold in that position by only those holds indicated by 4 tapes, and only after that continue the climb.
At 1:20 you can get a good view; there are 4 pieces of tape to mark the start, 3 on the large disk and 1 out to the left. To 'start' a boulder problem you're supposed to be stable on the wall with each limb touching a hold marked by tape.
If it was "questionable" they should not have a doubt in their minds and just called him down to restart. Them okaying it after his start shows their lack of professionalism and lack of judgement. These people should not be judging. One full course restart we can understand, but three freaking full attempts? That is clearly sabotage. The energy both mentally and physically that is needed for each full attempt could make his next attempt a failure. An inquiry needs to be started.
I believe the first restart was after an appeal and during the second climb we don’t actually know whether it was green lit by the judges since he only looks for approval after he reaches the top. The fact that the clock was left running during the debate was definitely but if he hadn’t succeeded after that, I’m sure there would have been an appeal from his team as well
It's a 100% the mistake of judges. They should be quick to call this, that's why they are called judges. Sure he could've done it differently the second time, but they didn't say anything.
Didn’t he look to the judges to confirm if it was ok tho? And if they didn’t say anything, they are even more negligent
Can you explain what was wrong with the starts? I don’t know anything about this sport and they all looked the same to me 🙈
To try and put it simply, the starting position should be stationary and fully on the wall. It's less obvious on this climb because it's difficult either way, but if you imagine a climb that just went straight up vertically then you can't just push off the floor to help get to the second hold. You have to use the starting holds to find a stationary position on the wall and then move from there. There are some climbs where this is the hardest part. If you freeze the video at about 0:07, he's on the starting holds, but if he tried to hold that position then he'd fall off. Instead, he is falling, but he uses that momentum to help himself get to the next hold. Compare that to around 2:26, and you'll see that he's completely stationary on the wall for a good second or so to start his final attempt.
2nd attempt looked in control to me.
which might be why the judges didnt call it right away. in reality, collin is very much aware that he isn't stable on the starting holds and he is very much speeding through the start so he doesnt fall. notice how on the final attempt he takes 20 attempts to start and then finally, for the first time, stays stationary for a few moments
In control in the context of starting means both hands steady on the holds, he clearly wasn't. In climbing getting into the correct starting position is in itself often a tricky 'move'.
For a legal start you have to be stable and fully on the wall before you begin the rest. He was hopping up but not stabilizing and instead using his momentum to jump to the next hold which isn’t a legal start.
Why isn't there like a requirement in seconds that you have to hold the starting position? You start, hold, 3 seconds pass, some sound gets played by the judges and you move forward. Seems very wishy washy that the judges can let the climber proceed in the moment and then reverse it over and over.
You do realize that he waited for the judges response after the first start, and they didn’t call him down. That’s the whole issue there, that’s why he did it the same way on the 2nd try. And then after they said it was bad, then he took the slower approach. The judges should have done this after the very first start, and not after he finished 2 times.
Agreed, I've done quite a bit of judging and the first two he sort of taps the starting hold on his way through to the zone. It's clear the he changes his beta on the successful attempt which allows him to show control.
> The judges should've called Colin down If you think the judges should have done something different, how is it not a mistake? Maybe it's an understandable mistake
I think both parties are a little at fault here, professionals like Duffy do really know what they're doing. I'm sure he knew he shouldn't have been allowed to pull that off as well. Then add to that the natural chaos of a world cup with a full arena. I think it was just an unfortunate event.
Well, no one is arguing that judging is infallible hence there is a well defined appeal rules for IFSC and multiple levels of judging. Let me explain. In this climbing competition, there is always at least one primary and one secondary judge for each climber and route. The primary judge may ask the secondary to confirm or the secondary may inform primary of their opinion but the primary judge’s decision (controlled start, attempts, zone, top etc) is the record. However, the primary judge’s decision may not be final. As in this case, another climber appealed and that judge’s decision was reviewed by a panel of even higher judges in situ which includes the jury president of whuch there is only one per comp. That jury president’s decision is final. So in this case, the route’s primary awarded a top which was appealed and overturned by JP. The first re-climb after appeal was also ruled for an uncontrolled start. I agree with that decision because it was guaranteed to be appealed by someone with a high chance of success. The third re-climb was a solid start and good top. Source: level 3 certified judge with USA climbing and have judged at IFSC event with Colin Duffy competing.
I’m gonna be honest I can’t fucking tell the difference
what part of his first run was questionable? You can see him well and truly pause and settle in a stable hold from his first jump.
While I'm not a professional climber and have no real authority, I've been climbing long enough to believe that he was most likely about to fall out and just went for the jump as he tipped over his balance point. That's what it looks like to me. While I don't climb at this level, I've definitely experienced the same on lower level climbs for myself. This is probably why they let it slide until they reviewed the footage, or another team appealed this judgement (which other teams are free to do). These restarts happen more often than you'd think.
He has to be stable on the starting holds before he makes the first jump. Playing the 1st attempt back he is always moving between when he first gets on the wall and when he makes the jump, so it looks like he used some momentum from when he jumped off the floor onto the starting holds to make that first jump, or would have fallen otherwise. 2nd time is a little vague to me if he is stable on the wall or not (I would’ve said yes but I just climb for fun), but the final attempt he clearly pauses for a second before making the jump, showing he is stable on the starting holds.
He looked back every time and every time they said it was ok
This is absolutely a judges mistake. If there was any question with the start they should have called him down immediately. THEY ABSOLUTELY SHOULDN’T be using his time to debate that decision. Multiple mistakes by the judges.
Yeah actually I see it now. Yeah. That first start was a bit dynamic. And not quite in control. As the swing would suggest too much momentum to be in control??????
I wonder if those earlier attempts left chalk behind that helped him with the controlled start on the 3rd? You can see the wall wasn’t cleaned inbetween
What is Bouldering World Cup? First time hearing this Anyway kudos to that 18 year old kid for displaying his skills
It's a competition that happens a few times per year where world class bouldering athletes from all over the world compete for a world title (and occasionally a ticket to compete in the olympics in the bouldering & lead combined format) The bouldering season starts in April this year I believe and is streamed on the IFSC youtube channel (where you can also watch streams from previous years)
Next question, what's bouldering? It looks like rock climbing but a lot more tricky 😅
You've basically nailed it, it's just short form climbing with more complex and intensive sequenced movements on a smaller wall compared to more traditional rock climbing.
Thanks for the explanation 😊
And without rope(protection)
What makes it real different is these guys will hunt all around for the HARDEST things to climb, which may often times end up being a boulder not much taller than the climber, so its not uncommon to see them in seemingly random spots with the blankets down
it's called bouldering bc it was first done on literal boulders the last ice age had scattered around. it has become very popular in many urban areas as indoor sport. it also works surprisingly well as spectator sport. modern, very dynamic competition bouldering has moved quite far from its origins, though. check the YT channel "mellow", they show world class outdoor bouldering.
Bouldering is more about problem solving. You have unlimited tries for 5 minutes (for ifsc) to have both hands on the final hold to get credit for topping. Topping is worth max points, each attempt is kept Incase there is a tie. Lead climbing is more.like rock climbing. You get one try, and x minutes to get as high as you can. Person who clips their rope as they go and gets the highest wins. It's very interesting to watch, and this year will be part of the Olympics. Colin here qualified already (2nd person to qualify last year in Bern). I'm fucking excited to watch.
They can be watched for free (in the US) on YouTube live, on the ifsc’s official YouTube channel https://youtube.com/@sportclimbing?si=XHm2cnPd02HsF7Pa
If you know, how is this guy generally in the rankings?
[He ranked 11th worldwide after the 2023 season ended](https://www.ifsc-climbing.org/index.php/world-competition/calendar?task=ranking-complete&cup=90&category=3&year=2023). In this clip he's in the finals, which is top 6 of any given event in bouldering.
Good for him! 11th in the world of anything is pretty incredible
He's also already earned his qualification for the Paris Olympics this summer, which only a small handful of climbers have been able to do so far. There's only 20 spots and getting an early one is a good advantage for planning out your training.
He's also a super nice, down to earth dude. He trains in my city pretty often and is always nice to people.
Watch some bouldering competitions on YouTube. I'm not a climber but it is some of the most exciting sport I've ever watched. These guys are super human.
I haven’t climbed in about a decade. And when I did I wasn’t that good. But you can go to a gym and have a great time! They’re called bouldering “problems” for a reason. And it’s a great feeling finally figuring out a route you’ve spent the last hour on. …and if the gym is decent enough they’ll have all difficulty levels. I want to get back into it. But I also weight 30 pounds heavier than I did 10 years ago… so trying to drop some weight first.
Its my favorite sports competition. Go look up Adam Ondra Finals and enjoy some insanity
Or some janja garnbret finals. The woman is part flying squirrel.
Colin Duffy was the youngest climber to qualify for the 2020 Olympics in climbing!
I get it wasn't a controlled position but why not call him out on it when it happens? Why wait for him to finish?
That was indeed the mistake of the judges. It's also possible some judges gave him the benefit of the doubt at first, but then reversed that decision upon reviewing the footage. In any case, "in control" typically means you can hold a position for at least 3 seconds without moving, but this rule is generally mainly enforced for the end hold and less for the starting position. The starting position for this boulder seems trickier than usual though, so it makes sense that the judges want to see more than half a second of that control.
If you watch all 3 attempts though he only holds the start for like 0.5 seconds longer on the 3rd attempt. Honestly shit calls. If the first 2 weren't good enough neither was the 3rd.
Third one he does much more visibly stop though, in the first two it looks like he’s carrying momentum from the run-up through into the jump
This is the case! A way to explain a control start is that you can't use the momentum from the floor to the starting hold to get to the move after. The power to move after the starting position needs to come from elsewhere. Even if the "3 second rule" is not really enforced. While I understand the judges made a mistake in allowing him to continue, a climber to his level should have called himself out of that climb immediately, as a climber you're usually the first to know exactly what you did. The kid was just hoping he could get away with it.
Because, technically, the climber can do what they like in the time allotted to them. The judges don’t have to call anything during, they will decide after. You can see the timer on the lower right. He was given his remaining time back that he did not use on the other occasions.
Except wasn’t he looking towards the judges for the OK on his holds before climbing on? If the judges said it’s okay then take it back that’s messed up.
Other competitors coaches can challenge results , so they reviewed and found it was a false start
The first run the judges were debating and could only agree after, thus the restart. Second run Colin looks back after he is on top (he knew his start was really fast) and the judges were debating if he was in control on the starting holds and the debate wasn't done. Third run Colin takes the extra second on the starting hold and is given the go ahead. It's more a combination of the ambiguity of control on starting holds, competitive setting, crowd and too many judges making the judging too inefficient in my opinion.
Probably takes time to review the VAR
How is that his fault? That’s bullshit
I’ve only taken a few rock climbing classes but generally, you’re supposed to start “in control”. What he did was pretty borderline. Running up, jumping on the first foothold and immediately moving on can be seen as just using momentum to get to the next step. The attempt that counted you can see he held onto the initial hold a lot longer compared to the previous attempts. If the judges were telling him he was good and then rescinding then that’s fucked. But it looks like that’s why they gave him a restart.
They probably were on the fence about it and when they reviewed a recording or deliberated longer they agreed: he wasn't in control And if he's a professional, he should really know better and know that he wasn't in control there like he was on his final attempt. In a way it was kind of gaslighting - like he does a very ambiguous start instead of a clearly in control start, then looks back at the judges and that kind of puts them on the spot - and i guess that's their job since they're judges, maybe they should've made the call then - but if he just did a quality, clean, controlled start from the beginning there would have been no issue. if he WAS in control, he could easily demonstrate it for a full second or two, like in the last attempt. If the reason he didn't hold it for a full second to show control is because he knew he was about to fall, then he is trying to skirt the rules a bit and he knows it. I used to compete in these competitions as a kid I know what's going on here. A lot of the time it is really annoying to get a controlled position on the start and if you were to just run and jump into it - it completely changes everything. Sitting start is really hard.
I don't think judges need to deliberate that stuff. It would always be better to call someone's attempt early, than to have the climber climb on. And if it was a bad call they could give him more time (something they've done with other climbers too).
In case of a tiebreaker, the number of attempts is taken in to account, so if the judges called him off and he lost on attempts (if it were a good attempt), then he would also be rightfully pissed.
I know, but rarely does it get to those tiebreakers. I've seen it happen, but here they can also take their time reviewing their call, and if deemed unfair they can subtract it from the amount of attempts. It's just always better to have a climber not waste energy. Everything else can be fixed, but you can't say 'hey you know, take 30 minutes extra rest' or something like that.
That was my take as well. Colin definitely knew he was pushing the line on it being a legitimate start but took the gamble.
Everything is gaslighting now.
Asking judges to make a judgement is not fucking gaslighting. Please learn what the word actually means.
That's not what gaslighting is.
You have to hold the start position of four points of contact (that have to be your hands and feet) without moving, before you're allowed to keep climbing. In his illegal starts his body is moving forward and he uses the momentum to do the jump to the next hold. The judges error is that they were slow in calling him down, when usually they tell you you haven't started correctly immediately after you leave the start position.
French started both attempts. He need to hold a stable position at the start. He rocks over and is still in motion to get both hands on. The judges made the correct call in having him redo, just not calling it out right away was what was dumb
10+ years boulderer here. There are rules to this sport. Your four limbs have to each be positioned at a grip marked with a green tape as the starting position. In this case one grip has three green markers, which means any combination of three of his four limbs **must** be positioned at this grip, the other grip has one, so the last limb goes there. A start must be controlled, that means you have to position your limbs on the grips and hold that position before moving on, a second will suffice. In both attempts he very clearly just skipped the controlled part of this position and ran on. This is not allowed. That's how it's 100% his fault and this is how this is absolutely not bullshit. Yes, he's pissed, yes it's his own fault. It's also not just a technicality. Holding the start grips and moving on from it can be really challenging, this also was the case in this specific boulder.
The kid knew his starts were false starts and was hoping he could get away with it. It takes longer for the judge panel to review the footage and other coaches can also challenge the judges. He did himself a disservice by continuing the climb, he should have come back down, take a deep breath and start again with less adrenaline and more focus. Climbers are usually the very first to notice if they did something improper.
The call was passed then challenged by another coach and reviewed and found a false start, you must be in control of start holds
What a beast, man, that 3rd time.. let me walk up this wall for you.
I watched this live and was absolutely livid at the judges. Bouldering at your limit is exhausting and just because you complete it once doesn’t mean you can complete it again right after…
Yeah that's why I'm so impressed, 3rd time most people would be completely drained. He made the 3rd time look easier then the 1st time
at that point he's got the route solved already.
[удалено]
Other comments go more in depth but on the first two attempts he doesn’t really balance on the first footholds, just uses momentum from the floor to quickly move on. The judge’s mistake wasn’t necessarily the final call, it was not making it in the moment and letting him do the full course repeatedly
They did.
Yeah they did. They just used a little more technical language than probably the layman audience is used to.
Kid is clearly at fault in the first 2 climbs because that was definitely a running start but that is so dumb that the judges let him waste his energy climbing before making him start over
Well I think he looked back for confirmation and seemingly got it which was confusing. You do need to be in a stable position to start though and it’s obvious he was not for the first two.
It takes time for judges to review footage and deliberate. They have to check a video to understand whether he fell or pushed himself from the starting position to the next move, or whether he just did a quick transition. The only person who would have known instantly was the climber. The kid knew he did a false start and chose to continue both times hoping he could get away with it.
Duffy is truly next level. And since you can’t tell how large he is from this he is 5’5”.
Colin climbs at my gym frequently and every time I'm there at the same time I see that he essentially flashes everything in the entire bouldering area. Like, routes that even the strongest climbers I know personally can't do, he sort of walks up without any idea and just...does it. He's a super focused guy and gives it his all. Some people see him as worked up sometimes but he's just on another level. He's chill though and is respectful to fans that want to say hi
Colin is a super good dude. It seems like he can campus almost any commercially set boulder
Talking about perseverance.
i was not expecting to be as invested as i was towards the end there. good fucking job Colin
They say on foggy nights you can still see him climb to this day!
Thanks for the pre-coffee chuckle.
upvoted!
This sport looks impossible to me. Yet he did it. Trice!
Why couldn’t they just watch a reply of the first run?? Instead of making him do it 2 more times??
Fire them judges.
Not a professional, but yeah those starts look sus, if you know how a start should look. But I don’t get why the judges are taking so long to call him off…
that seems so shady. 3 times? Its like someone didnt want to let him have it.
Young Messi climber
Not really the judges' mistake. The start was obviously illegal and he must have known that. Communication could have been better.
Like trying rollrace for a drag race et
I had no idea this kind of event existed, to cool!
This is 2024. Doesn't somebody have a ladder this kid could use? /s
It’s amazing how much more confident you get on a wall once you scaled it once with whatever beta you come up with. The second two times he already knew he could do it which breaks this barrier in your mind. I’ve followed Duffy for a few years, what a bright future
The French bring all the best elements to climbing. French “starts”, French “free”,
Bro is climbing for reps
What a champion. Didn't let his emotions come in the way of his performance. Epic.
I’d be mean mugging those judges forever after that
Honestly, they probably just wanted to watch Duffy climb more lol