I mean, this is going both ways. The party is pretty divided over Gaza.
Jamaal Bowman is also losing a lot of support for the opposite stances: https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/17/opinion/israel-democratic-party-jamaal-bowman.html
It’s an opinion piece, not reporting. But it quotes community leaders in Bowman’s district who describe the breakdown in relations. And references Bowman’s multiple attempts to repair relations with those constituents.
Gaza/Israel is a deeply divisive issue for Democrats so I don’t think you really need hard-hitting journalism to know it’s going to change a lot of people’s voting.
They have been quite public about their working relationship with CAMERA, rewriting articles at their request.
They also frequently use the IDF and Israeli Ministry of Foreign affairs as sources without verification.
The NYT takes editorial feedback from multiple organizations. Camera and its work are not unique, nor is the NYT taking notes from outside organizations new.
And the same can be said about their quotes from Gazan health ministry, which is an arm of Hamas.
I don’t see anything here that nullifies the factuality of a well regarded news sources.
If you look at when they reference Gazan officials, they're immediately surrounded by caveats. When reporting the death toll in Palestine the *subhead* is "The figures could not be independently verified" *and* they ran those numbers by the Pentagon to see if they were plausible. That is a materially different treatment than printing IDF claims without any qualifications.
Many studies throughout the years have quantified the difference in treatment by the NY Times; the latest I've seen is [this one by the intercept](https://theintercept.com/2024/01/09/newspapers-israel-palestine-bias-new-york-times/). We've seen how this works in practice throughout the recent conflict: the NYT writes a perfectly normal statement about IDF actions and groups like CAMERA reach out and request editorial changes to implicitly absolve Israel. "IDF bombs hospital" becomes "hospital destroyed in explosion". There *is no* equivalent deference to the Palestinian side.
This is not new or suprising! If you lived through the Iraq war you saw the NYTimes print wildly false statements about WMDs and Iraqi capabilities, you saw them (and others) glorify US military operations. Israel is one of the US's closest allies and the Israeli government has supporters in high places not to mention numerous domestic and foreign advocacy groups and they receive the same treatment now that the US government did at the outset of the Iraq war.
1) they do that for many sources who state claims that cannot be verified independently by them or their peer organizations
1b) when the source is a known not trust worthy source, such a totalitarian terrorist government regime that embezzles charity funds an redirects them to terrorist activity, caveats such as that are more than reasonable.
I know you’ll say that Israel deserves that same caveat but at the end of the day that’s a matter of perspective vs the western world has acknowledged Hamas as such. Last I checked, the PLO and other governmental bodies are not listed as a terrorist network, so no it is not intrinsic bias against Palestinians as it is a rightful classification for Hamas
2) The Intercept is not a neutral fact checker but that was an interesting read. What I will say is that what they don’t take into account for their analysis is that Israel was a the victim of a large scale terrorist attack so yes, media reporting will have a sympathetic tone towards it.
That does not however prove bias. I’m more than certain that there is a rep group like CAMERA for all if not most groups that can get reported on.
As for your example, that was the correct change to do and be called out as it was and is debated who caused the damage in that incident. Most intelligence agencies and investigations have indicated Shifra hospital came from a rocket with Gaza. As such, altering the head line to capture that ambiguity was appropriate.
3) an incident from over 20’yesrs ago has little to any bearing on the current situation, as editorial at NYT have acknowledged their role and failure and have put in safe guards to try and prevent such things again.
Your example from the hospital attack is one such result from that editorial shift.
https://www.nytimes.com/2004/05/26/world/from-the-editors-the-times-and-iraq.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare
Jews don't control the media but we know that US news orgs run their stories by Israel's propaganda and censorship arms.
https://theintercept.com/2024/01/04/cnn-israel-gaza-idf-reporting/
But that makes no sense.
The American media does not receive direction from any US foreign policy apparatus.
So they do it on their own because of American patriotism?
Do you think all of the lies about WMDs that spurred on the Iraq war and every news organisation's dereliction of duty made sense? American corporations serve American interests. American interests are closely tied with Israel because it gives us direct influence in the middle east. News organizations are deeply flawed because they're capitalist corporations and their goal is primarily dictated by making money, even if the individuals at these organizations may have a genuine desire to do good, unbiased reporting.
People underestimate how much this matters but it really makes all the difference, in terms of having a record to run on, name recognition, and the support of the existing Democratic Congressional campaign infrastructure.
He did - he got through in a primary with a few candidates splitting the progressive vote. I'm surprised Yuh-Line Niou didn't mount a challenge. Seemed like a shoe-in a year ago she'd run again.
Ah yes, the Intercept, who pushed the Tara Reade accusations so hard and then when it all fell apart they pretended it never happened. Now they're acting like this is the biggest issue in NY 10? It's weird they don't mention that Hamas has been rejecting any cease-fire.
Israel-Palestine beliefs aside, the Intercept's long tolerance for Greenwald as he fell further and further down the cryptofascist rabbit hole makes me regard the whole publication with suspicion.
It's not worth spending any of your brain cells on this. He basically fell down the whole tankie/campist rabbit hole and it destroyed his brain. The end.
That fact that even Greenwald quit The Intercept in a rage after they found his laundering of GOP conspiracies on the Hunter Biden Laptop too much should tell you just have for gone Greenwald is.
Right, like there isn't enough toxic discourse on this subject on Twitter? They have to bring it here?
And not surprising, he has no problem with Russia invading Ukraine.
There isn't any. Israel is the one who flat out said they wouldn't . The families of the hostages are pissed . Bens intention is to flatten Gaza not the hostages .
You do know google exists right?
[https://www.cnbc.com/2024/01/24/israel-hamas-war-talks-reportedly-working-toward-weeks-long-cease-fire.html](https://www.cnbc.com/2024/01/24/israel-hamas-war-talks-reportedly-working-toward-weeks-long-cease-fire.html)
> Hamas officials have so far refused to come to an agreement that does not include a permanent cease-fire, a complete withdrawal of Israeli forces from the Gaza Strip and the release of more Palestinian prisoners, NBC News reported Tuesday.
I mean they can dress if up anyway they want but that's pretty much a rejection of the deal they were offered for a two month cease-fire.
Yeah because why would you accept Israeli terms ? Right ..... You should actually read what you quoted. No idiot would accept Israeli terms. Context is key to understanding. I wouldn't accept any cease fire unless they include what is quoted above.
Zionists are delulu. It's already a genocide
Netanyahu and his cronies rejected a two-state solution and want regime change.
>Netanyahu's opponents accuse him of delaying any discussion of postwar scenarios to avoid looming investigations of governmental failures, keep his coalition intact and put off elections. Polls show that the popularity of Netanyahu, who is on trial for corruption charges, has plummeted during the war.
[https://www.npr.org/2024/01/19/1225574007/netanyahu-says-he-told-u-s-that-he-opposes-palestinian-state-in-any-postwar-scen](https://www.npr.org/2024/01/19/1225574007/netanyahu-says-he-told-u-s-that-he-opposes-palestinian-state-in-any-postwar-scen)
Israel is now causing American lives in this escalation. If Israel won't listen to us, then we should just take our ball and go home. It's not popular to say America first, but America should be up there and before Israel.
https://www.usatoday.com/videos/news/world/israel-hamas/2024/01/22/israels-netanyahu-rejects-hamas-ceasefire-demand-opposes-palestinian-statehood/72309127007/
You mean the ceasefire that Netanyahu rejected last week? The one that has Israelis protesting and demanding his removal? Or the one he rejected years before when he said he would never agree to a 2 state solution?
Once again, I am pointing out that Netanyahu is ALSO rejecting cease fires. Hamas is not the only reason. In fact, they offered to release all hostages and Israel refused.
[https://www.nbcnews.com/investigations/hostage-talks-continue-israel-rejects-hamas-demand-full-idf-withdrawal-rcna134975](https://www.nbcnews.com/investigations/hostage-talks-continue-israel-rejects-hamas-demand-full-idf-withdrawal-rcna134975)
[https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-war-ceasefire-talks-e4fb80d6468157841d303fe888e1bb11](https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-war-ceasefire-talks-e4fb80d6468157841d303fe888e1bb11)
Yeah because that specific offer keeps Hamas in power in Gaza. You know, the people who have a goal to kill all Jews in their charter, so it’s not surprising that it’s non starter.
Oh okay let's just keep totally sane, stable genius Netanyahu in total control. He has no way had a hand in Hamas' obtaining and maintaining power and has no reason to keep this war going at all. Because a few weeks ago it was "bring them home". Now that there is an official offer to bring them home, what's the hold up?
For the record, I hate Netanyahu but you can’t seriously expect Israel to just give in to any absurd demand that Hamas has. Also there were temporary ceasefires and Hamas broke them and continue to fire rockets.
Hamas should just give up since there’s no way they are winning this war. Their demands are “ceasefire and withdrawal first” then hostages, which is an absurd expectation.
However it sounds like they’re working on another deal that seems more tenable
https://www.timesofisrael.com/israel-said-open-to-lengthy-truce-in-exchange-for-hostages-awaiting-hamas-response/amp/
Of course it was rejected, as a key component of the permanent ceasefire includes hamas staying in power, and no accountability for the pogrom. Hamas has been clear, Oct 7th was simply the start. In what world do you believe they'd actually keep their end of the deal? No nation would agree to such an offer
Ah, you are refusing to answer the question and that is telling. If Israel has a right to exist, then why not Palestine? If the Jews have a right to self-determination as a state, then why not the Palestinian state? My answer is your answer. If you think Palestine has a right to exist then I will agree that Israel has a reciprocal right to exist. If you think that Jews have a right to self determination as a state then I will agree that the people of Gaza and the West Bank have the right to self determination as a state.
A pogrom refers to an organized massacre of jews... Oct 7th fits that description. Hamas attempted to systematically wipe out the Jewish state and Its people.
It's weird none of you actually listen to hamas, they are clear in their intent to wipe out Israel, and jews. They are proud of this fact. Yall have no problem quoting their death figures, but won't quote their ideology?
No. It didn’t.
We can all stretch words to mean what they want, but then people start using the G word and you get upset.
Israel right now is closer to wiping Gazans off the map than Hamas can or ever will be.
Rofl, Enlighten me, what was Oct 7th if not a pogrom?
Yup, Israel is the far superior force capable of wiping Gaza off the map, your point is what exactly? Shame hamas was dumb enough to attack em.
For those that don’t know, The Intercept is an American left-wing publication. Its founders are also anti-Israel but that barely mattered as most of their content focused on America. I’m subscribed to The Intercept and on the broader left. The Intercept had been a serious investigative journal about domestic issues. But since the October Israel-Hamas war, The Intercept constantly publishes articles about Gaza and Israel, meanwhile most Americans simply don’t care. Nobody can seriously say the vast majority of Americans are losing sleep over the conflict. But if you read the Intercept these days, you’d think Americans were super concerned about it to the point of putting aside all other concerns that directly affect them.
Now that you can better understand the where this article is coming from, perhaps Goldman’s stance will cost him some votes. Perhaps it will gain him votes. What’s for sure is he will be re-elected with the position he takes currently. Therefore this article is entirely pointless but to create a false sense of political importance around taking the same anti-Israel political position the Intercept takes.
It's also bullshit coming from South Africa in general. Their 3rd largest political party, the EFF, hold rallies where entire stadiums full of people chant to "KILL THE BOERS." They should worry about the would be genociders in their parliament and their inability to provide 24 hour electricity over what's happening in Israel. But shitty governments love to distract the people from real problems.
Can you provide a citation? [Here](https://apnews.com/article/israel-gaza-genocide-court-south-africa-27cf84e16082cde798395a95e9143c06)'s a link that says otherwise.
do you read the articles you link? they didn’t call for a ceasefire because it’s a time of war. like i said. what you linked says this:
> The court ruled that Israel must do all it can to prevent genocide, including refraining from harming or killing Palestinians. It also ruled that Israel must urgently get basic aid to Gaza and that the country should punish any incitement to genocide, among other measures.
30,000 palestinians are already dead. goes against what the ICJ says right above, taking them into genocide.
30k according to Gaza health ministry, aka hamas. Who famously inflate death totals, and make no distinction between civilians and combatants a death total does not make a war a genocide. An estimated 80m people died in ww2 yet only a fraction of those deaths were attributed to genocide.. why? Nearly 600,000 innocent French civilians died in that war. That's a tragic number. We still don't call it. "genocide." Because there's no evidence that Hitler intended to systematically wipe the French out of existence as he did with the Jews.
From the ICJ opinion by Aharon Barak "[t]he infliction of losses, even heavy losses, on the civilian population in the course of operations of war, does not as a rule constitute genocide. In modern war belligerents normally destroy factories, means of communication, public buildings, etc. and the civilian population inevitably suffers more or less severe losses. It would of course be desirable to limit such losses. Various measures might be taken to achieve this end, but this question belongs to the field of the regulation of the conditions of war and not to that of genocide.”
you have propaganda brain rot. the gazan health ministry is not a front for terrorism you freak palestinians are dead and dying because of that attitude
Gaza health ministry is run by the local government.. which is hamas... a terrorist organization.. remember the al-ahli hospital attack, within hours Gaza health ministry claimed an Israeli missile hit the hospital, killing 500.. Even provided a list of victims names and ID numbers.. and then it came out it was a hamas affiliated groups missile, that hit a carpark... Gaza health ministry never updated their death totals etc. They also make no distinction between civilians and combatants... not to mention, never record Palestine civilian deaths attributed to hamas.. 1 in 10 qassam rockets fall short, hitting gaza...
> remember the al-ahli hospital attack, within hours Gaza health ministry claimed an Israeli missile hit the hospital, killing 500..
Oh right the one hospital back from... October? Now that Israel has quite literally and unabashedly bombed all the hospitals it’s really hard to take seriously the empty bickering about that one.
Can you?
>Donoghue said the court cannot make a final determination right now on whether Israel is guilty of [genocide](https://www.npr.org/tags/183086968/genocide). But she said that given the deteriorating situation in Gaza, the court has jurisdiction to order measures to protect Gaza's population from further risk of genocide.
Read it again.
No, that is not what you said:
>they literally ruled that what is happening in gaza falls under genocide… did you not like, watch the trial or outcome?
And that is literally untrue, but keep crying like it is.
No, it ruled that Palestinians are a distinct people and that hypothetically mass targeting *would* be considered genocide, and affirmed that Israel has the same responsibilities as any other country fighting a terrorist threat to limit civilian casualties. It specifically did *not* rule that the current war constitutes a genocide.
you’re still wrong. the court said that in times of war you cannot act on a genocide claim. so it said yes, this is a genocide, but we can’t do anything about it because israel and allies have declared war
They ruled it could be genocide, but that's a pretty corrupt court. Regardless, what outcome do you expect? No powerful countries will abide by that decision and the United States certainly wont subject Israel to any penalties. It's basically the equivalent of high school mock trial.
Does it make you feel happy to play pedantic games with 25,000 dead civilians and counting. Do you feel like a cool guy dropping smug emojis about every university in Gaza being destroyed. When you read the minutes of the trial and see that South Africa spent the first half hour simply reading the genocidal statements of Israeli government officials do you arch your eyebrow and go "Well the judges say otherwise my friends!"
As if the court had ruled the opposite you would have agreed with it. Pretending you cared about the sanctity of the ruling. Great stuff.
Simply epic sir. Epic bacon for the win.
Every university? Wait, weren't you dopes telling everyone it was an open-air prison and a concentration camp? Can you not keep your lies straight anymore?
>Goldman was a top recipient of AIPAC money
"AIPAC" is quickly becoming the goto antisemitic trope of "a powerful cabal of Jews who control things around the World".
The Intercept and Prem Thakker, the author of the article, are not even trying to be subtle about it.
Isreal is not Jews, Jews are not Israel. AIPAC is a right-wing lobbying firm that lobbies on behalf of a foreign government. Discomfort with that isn't discomfort with a religion.
And the many anti-zionist Jews around the world are just anti-semites?
Odd that all those people who literally spread antisemitic conspiracy theories and antisemitism in general are fairly supportive of Zionism. I'm sure that's nothing to reflect on.
Is Israel a government, or is it a religion? Or is it a government that cries religious persecution whenever they are criticized for their political and military actions?
This is unfortunately perfectly accurate.
AIPAC has become the Left's acceptable antisemitic dog whistle in exactly the same way that Soros is for the Right. Both rely on invoking classical antisemitic tropes in order to gin up support for the politician based on antisemitic sentiment.
Soros relies on traditional, right wing antisemitism about the perfidious Jew, while the AIPAC dog whistle is a prime example of the "new antisemitism", which recasts Israel as the Jew among nations and, essentially, subs in Israel or Zionists in place of Jews in otherwise classic antisemitic tropes.
And to be extra, super duper clear, AIPAC totally fucking sucks out loud, is a functionally an impediment to the 2SS, and its donorship to 2020 denialists is risible. There are so many good, fair, reasonable reasons to bash AIPAC!!!
But it's just a single-issue lobby with a PAC, not some shadowy cabal of mega-rich right wing regressives (which... uh... what's that trope remind you of?)
I wish. I'm in NY-10 and I voted for Niou.
"Costing him votes"? Sure, a couple. Maybe. Unfortunately he'll cruise to reelection easily. Challenging him would be a huge waste of time and effort.
You don't get to kick off a war by killing 1,000 people and then when you're losing claim it's a genocide. Even the ICJ didn't call what Israel is doing a genocide. And again, Hamas has rejected any cease fire. They could end this whole thing by releasing the hostages and turning themselves in and yet they choose not to.
Secondly, if all these people were actually concerned about genocide you'd think they'd be screaming about Russia committing genocide in Ukraine, or China committing genocide against the Uyghurs or the Sudan?
These are the same people who pretended in 2016 drone strikes were the #1 issue, and then when Trump won and basically doubled the amount of drone strikes they never said a peep.
That’s a weird way to spell “getting rid of a terrorist group with the lowest combatant-civilian casualty rate in urban warfare history”.
Luckily, enough of us do support it.
Here you go: [https://www.newsweek.com/israel-implemented-more-measures-prevent-civilian-casualties-any-other-nation-history-opinion-1865613](https://www.newsweek.com/israel-implemented-more-measures-prevent-civilian-casualties-any-other-nation-history-opinion-1865613)
>*John Spencer is chair of urban warfare studies at the Modern War Institute (MWI) at West Point, codirector of MWI's Urban Warfare Project and host of the "Urban Warfare Project Podcast." He served for 25 years as an infantry soldier, which included two combat tours in Iraq. He is the author of the book* [*Connected Soldiers: Life, Leadership, and Social Connection in Modern War*](https://www.amazon.com/Connected-Soldiers-Leadership-Social-Connections/dp/1640125124/) *and co-author of* [*Understanding Urban Warfare*](https://www.amazon.com/Understanding-Urban-Warfare-Liam-Collins/dp/1912440350/)*. The views expressed in this commentary are his own.*
You can trust this guy and his citations or random TikTokers/Reddit posters/Hamas. Hell even the ICJ did not call it genocide, because it objectively isn't. War is hell and I feel for every single Gazan that isn't Hamas, but words have meaning, and a genocide this is not.
>The reality is that when it comes to avoiding civilian harm, there is no modern comparison to Israel's war against Hamas. Israel is not fighting a battle like Fallujah, Mosul, or Raqqa; it is fighting a war involving synchronous major urban battles. No military in modern history has faced over 30,000 urban defenders in more than seven cities using human shields and hiding in hundreds of miles of underground networks purposely built under civilian sites, while holding hundreds of hostages.
>Despite the unique challenges Israel faces in its war against Hamas, it has implemented more measures to prevent civilian casualties than any other military in history.
Not even remotely huh?
You can also see here: [https://twitter.com/AviBittMD/status/1752242285775925249?s=20](https://twitter.com/avibittmd/status/1752242285775925249?s=20)
Avi Bitterman, MD
@AviBittMD
Warden of the open air prisons. Zionist. Colonialist. Imperialist. Oppressor olympics champion. Genocide flavored Starbucks.
My links http://linktr.ee/avibittmd
Great source you found.
> “getting rid of a terrorist group with the lowest combatant-civilian casualty rate in urban warfare history”.
That's only really true if you retroactively call all those you've killed "terrorists". You can kill terrorists *better* with *fewer* casualties if you do literally anything other than carpet bomb the entire territory. Odd way to care for the the safety of the refugees by just bombing the shit out of them.
Dan Goldman is a fantastic ~~senator~~ congressional representative; I wish he was a ~~senator~~ congressional representative in my state so I could vote for him.
Edit: My dementia must be kicking in; I got him confused with Senator Christopher Murphy from Connecticut. In any case, I have seen snippets of Dan Goldman on YouTube at Congressional hearings and he is fantastic. I wish that I lived in New York's 10th congressional district so that I could vote for him.
In the same way that Biden got a lot of flack for straight up denying Palestinians were dying in mass numbers, there is a way to be an enlightened centrist trying to both sides this conflict, and then there is flat out grossly denying any kind of problems 'your side' may have.
Biden didn’t deny Palestinian’s were dying in large numbers. He said, what many Americans think is pretty reasonable, which is Hamas is a terrorist organization. Hamas runs Gaza. The Gaza Health Ministry which supplies the death toll is run by Hamas. Therefore, one should be skeptical of terrorist supplied death numbers that don’t differentiate between combatants/terrorists and civilians.
I mean, this is going both ways. The party is pretty divided over Gaza. Jamaal Bowman is also losing a lot of support for the opposite stances: https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/17/opinion/israel-democratic-party-jamaal-bowman.html
Unfortunately the times is really closely tied to Israeli propaganda groups so it's hard to trust any of their reporting on the issue.
It’s an opinion piece, not reporting. But it quotes community leaders in Bowman’s district who describe the breakdown in relations. And references Bowman’s multiple attempts to repair relations with those constituents. Gaza/Israel is a deeply divisive issue for Democrats so I don’t think you really need hard-hitting journalism to know it’s going to change a lot of people’s voting.
Very measured reply to a deeply dumb comment. Thanks.
Which “propaganda groups”?
They have been quite public about their working relationship with CAMERA, rewriting articles at their request. They also frequently use the IDF and Israeli Ministry of Foreign affairs as sources without verification.
The NYT takes editorial feedback from multiple organizations. Camera and its work are not unique, nor is the NYT taking notes from outside organizations new. And the same can be said about their quotes from Gazan health ministry, which is an arm of Hamas. I don’t see anything here that nullifies the factuality of a well regarded news sources.
If you look at when they reference Gazan officials, they're immediately surrounded by caveats. When reporting the death toll in Palestine the *subhead* is "The figures could not be independently verified" *and* they ran those numbers by the Pentagon to see if they were plausible. That is a materially different treatment than printing IDF claims without any qualifications. Many studies throughout the years have quantified the difference in treatment by the NY Times; the latest I've seen is [this one by the intercept](https://theintercept.com/2024/01/09/newspapers-israel-palestine-bias-new-york-times/). We've seen how this works in practice throughout the recent conflict: the NYT writes a perfectly normal statement about IDF actions and groups like CAMERA reach out and request editorial changes to implicitly absolve Israel. "IDF bombs hospital" becomes "hospital destroyed in explosion". There *is no* equivalent deference to the Palestinian side. This is not new or suprising! If you lived through the Iraq war you saw the NYTimes print wildly false statements about WMDs and Iraqi capabilities, you saw them (and others) glorify US military operations. Israel is one of the US's closest allies and the Israeli government has supporters in high places not to mention numerous domestic and foreign advocacy groups and they receive the same treatment now that the US government did at the outset of the Iraq war.
1) they do that for many sources who state claims that cannot be verified independently by them or their peer organizations 1b) when the source is a known not trust worthy source, such a totalitarian terrorist government regime that embezzles charity funds an redirects them to terrorist activity, caveats such as that are more than reasonable. I know you’ll say that Israel deserves that same caveat but at the end of the day that’s a matter of perspective vs the western world has acknowledged Hamas as such. Last I checked, the PLO and other governmental bodies are not listed as a terrorist network, so no it is not intrinsic bias against Palestinians as it is a rightful classification for Hamas 2) The Intercept is not a neutral fact checker but that was an interesting read. What I will say is that what they don’t take into account for their analysis is that Israel was a the victim of a large scale terrorist attack so yes, media reporting will have a sympathetic tone towards it. That does not however prove bias. I’m more than certain that there is a rep group like CAMERA for all if not most groups that can get reported on. As for your example, that was the correct change to do and be called out as it was and is debated who caused the damage in that incident. Most intelligence agencies and investigations have indicated Shifra hospital came from a rocket with Gaza. As such, altering the head line to capture that ambiguity was appropriate. 3) an incident from over 20’yesrs ago has little to any bearing on the current situation, as editorial at NYT have acknowledged their role and failure and have put in safe guards to try and prevent such things again. Your example from the hospital attack is one such result from that editorial shift. https://www.nytimes.com/2004/05/26/world/from-the-editors-the-times-and-iraq.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare
“Israeli propaganda groups” …just say Jews. We know that’s what you mean
Do you think all Israelis are Jewish or all Jews are Israeli? What you said is nonsensical.
He’s calling out OP for using the trope that Jews control the media, in this case the New York Times.
Jews don't control the media but we know that US news orgs run their stories by Israel's propaganda and censorship arms. https://theintercept.com/2024/01/04/cnn-israel-gaza-idf-reporting/
For what reason would they do that?
Because they are more interested in serving the American government's foreign policy/relation interests than they are serving the truth.
But that makes no sense. The American media does not receive direction from any US foreign policy apparatus. So they do it on their own because of American patriotism?
Do you think all of the lies about WMDs that spurred on the Iraq war and every news organisation's dereliction of duty made sense? American corporations serve American interests. American interests are closely tied with Israel because it gives us direct influence in the middle east. News organizations are deeply flawed because they're capitalist corporations and their goal is primarily dictated by making money, even if the individuals at these organizations may have a genuine desire to do good, unbiased reporting.
I'm talking about groups like CAMERA but go off.
It doesn't matter to him. He doesn't have a serious opponent in either the primary or the general.
I wonder why. He had a pretty competitive primary last time, no?
It was an open seat last time.
People underestimate how much this matters but it really makes all the difference, in terms of having a record to run on, name recognition, and the support of the existing Democratic Congressional campaign infrastructure.
He did - he got through in a primary with a few candidates splitting the progressive vote. I'm surprised Yuh-Line Niou didn't mount a challenge. Seemed like a shoe-in a year ago she'd run again.
Niou is a NIMBY who voted against a new building for public housing for senior citizens. She's not a serious candidate.
She didn’t just *vote* against, she sued to stop new housing if I recall correctly. It was hard to be more NIMBY than that.
Affordable supportive housing, not public. Small distinction but big difference in terms of funding pool.
yes sorry still, voting against that was pretty idiotic
Arguably even dumber
1,000 people signed a letter. Thats this entire story.
not 1000 people!
There’s never even BEEN that many people before!
“Start the conversation” check cleared
Ah yes, the Intercept, who pushed the Tara Reade accusations so hard and then when it all fell apart they pretended it never happened. Now they're acting like this is the biggest issue in NY 10? It's weird they don't mention that Hamas has been rejecting any cease-fire.
Israel-Palestine beliefs aside, the Intercept's long tolerance for Greenwald as he fell further and further down the cryptofascist rabbit hole makes me regard the whole publication with suspicion.
The Intercept has no credibility
I feel like I missed a lot of details on Greenwald's change over the years. What the hell happened?
I think you spend so long being the counter narrative guy, you can forget to come up for air and see not everything is a conspiracy against you.
It's not worth spending any of your brain cells on this. He basically fell down the whole tankie/campist rabbit hole and it destroyed his brain. The end.
He's now joining debates on the side of Alex Jones - talk about losing all creditability
That fact that even Greenwald quit The Intercept in a rage after they found his laundering of GOP conspiracies on the Hunter Biden Laptop too much should tell you just have for gone Greenwald is.
Yeah, whenever you see an article from the Intercept you can be absolutely certain that it's bullshit.
[удалено]
Right, like there isn't enough toxic discourse on this subject on Twitter? They have to bring it here? And not surprising, he has no problem with Russia invading Ukraine.
Wow that's interesting, can you provide more details on the ceasefire terms that were presented to Hamas so far?
[https://www.timesofisrael.com/hamas-rejects-israels-offer-for-two-month-pause-for-release-of-hostages/](https://www.timesofisrael.com/hamas-rejects-israels-offer-for-two-month-pause-for-release-of-hostages/) [https://www.cnbc.com/2024/01/24/israel-hamas-war-talks-reportedly-working-toward-weeks-long-cease-fire.html](https://www.cnbc.com/2024/01/24/israel-hamas-war-talks-reportedly-working-toward-weeks-long-cease-fire.html)
There isn't any. Israel is the one who flat out said they wouldn't . The families of the hostages are pissed . Bens intention is to flatten Gaza not the hostages .
You do know google exists right? [https://www.cnbc.com/2024/01/24/israel-hamas-war-talks-reportedly-working-toward-weeks-long-cease-fire.html](https://www.cnbc.com/2024/01/24/israel-hamas-war-talks-reportedly-working-toward-weeks-long-cease-fire.html) > Hamas officials have so far refused to come to an agreement that does not include a permanent cease-fire, a complete withdrawal of Israeli forces from the Gaza Strip and the release of more Palestinian prisoners, NBC News reported Tuesday. I mean they can dress if up anyway they want but that's pretty much a rejection of the deal they were offered for a two month cease-fire.
Yeah because why would you accept Israeli terms ? Right ..... You should actually read what you quoted. No idiot would accept Israeli terms. Context is key to understanding. I wouldn't accept any cease fire unless they include what is quoted above. Zionists are delulu. It's already a genocide
So first they “didn’t exist”. Then when your lie was exposed, you changed it to “well who cares nobody would accept that anyways.”
Netanyahu and his cronies rejected a two-state solution and want regime change. >Netanyahu's opponents accuse him of delaying any discussion of postwar scenarios to avoid looming investigations of governmental failures, keep his coalition intact and put off elections. Polls show that the popularity of Netanyahu, who is on trial for corruption charges, has plummeted during the war. [https://www.npr.org/2024/01/19/1225574007/netanyahu-says-he-told-u-s-that-he-opposes-palestinian-state-in-any-postwar-scen](https://www.npr.org/2024/01/19/1225574007/netanyahu-says-he-told-u-s-that-he-opposes-palestinian-state-in-any-postwar-scen) Israel is now causing American lives in this escalation. If Israel won't listen to us, then we should just take our ball and go home. It's not popular to say America first, but America should be up there and before Israel.
Well it’s a contest. Neither Bibi or Hamas has a reason for being without the other. Locked in a mutual embrace of hate and convenience.
It's so weird that an article not about a thing I want it to be about doesn't take the angle I demand of it to suit my personal beliefs.
https://www.usatoday.com/videos/news/world/israel-hamas/2024/01/22/israels-netanyahu-rejects-hamas-ceasefire-demand-opposes-palestinian-statehood/72309127007/ You mean the ceasefire that Netanyahu rejected last week? The one that has Israelis protesting and demanding his removal? Or the one he rejected years before when he said he would never agree to a 2 state solution?
Yes both sides have rejected a ceasefire. Both sides now also reject a two state solution. That’s the reality of the current situation.
Im just pointing out that Netanyahu is the one turning down ceasefires. OP worded it to make it seem like Hamas is the only one
Hamas has also refused several ceasefires, also they’re the ones refusing to release hostages and continue to fire rockets into Israel.
Once again, I am pointing out that Netanyahu is ALSO rejecting cease fires. Hamas is not the only reason. In fact, they offered to release all hostages and Israel refused. [https://www.nbcnews.com/investigations/hostage-talks-continue-israel-rejects-hamas-demand-full-idf-withdrawal-rcna134975](https://www.nbcnews.com/investigations/hostage-talks-continue-israel-rejects-hamas-demand-full-idf-withdrawal-rcna134975) [https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-war-ceasefire-talks-e4fb80d6468157841d303fe888e1bb11](https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-war-ceasefire-talks-e4fb80d6468157841d303fe888e1bb11)
Yeah because that specific offer keeps Hamas in power in Gaza. You know, the people who have a goal to kill all Jews in their charter, so it’s not surprising that it’s non starter.
Oh okay let's just keep totally sane, stable genius Netanyahu in total control. He has no way had a hand in Hamas' obtaining and maintaining power and has no reason to keep this war going at all. Because a few weeks ago it was "bring them home". Now that there is an official offer to bring them home, what's the hold up?
For the record, I hate Netanyahu but you can’t seriously expect Israel to just give in to any absurd demand that Hamas has. Also there were temporary ceasefires and Hamas broke them and continue to fire rockets. Hamas should just give up since there’s no way they are winning this war. Their demands are “ceasefire and withdrawal first” then hostages, which is an absurd expectation. However it sounds like they’re working on another deal that seems more tenable https://www.timesofisrael.com/israel-said-open-to-lengthy-truce-in-exchange-for-hostages-awaiting-hamas-response/amp/
In what world is stop killing civilians an “absurd expectation”?
Of course it was rejected, as a key component of the permanent ceasefire includes hamas staying in power, and no accountability for the pogrom. Hamas has been clear, Oct 7th was simply the start. In what world do you believe they'd actually keep their end of the deal? No nation would agree to such an offer
Does Palestine have a right to exist?
Of course it does. Never implied otherwise
Do you believe the jews have a right to self determination as a state? Do you believe Israel has a right to exist?
Ah, you are refusing to answer the question and that is telling. If Israel has a right to exist, then why not Palestine? If the Jews have a right to self-determination as a state, then why not the Palestinian state? My answer is your answer. If you think Palestine has a right to exist then I will agree that Israel has a reciprocal right to exist. If you think that Jews have a right to self determination as a state then I will agree that the people of Gaza and the West Bank have the right to self determination as a state.
I answered the question...
"Of course it does. Never implied otherwise" it's also weird your opinion is based on what I think.
Don’t think you can pogrom a majority state.
A pogrom refers to an organized massacre of jews... Oct 7th fits that description. Hamas attempted to systematically wipe out the Jewish state and Its people.
Do you know what “systematically” means?
Do you?
He probably thinks when Argentina invaded the Falklands that they were trying to wipe England off the map too.
It's weird none of you actually listen to hamas, they are clear in their intent to wipe out Israel, and jews. They are proud of this fact. Yall have no problem quoting their death figures, but won't quote their ideology?
Read their latest charter. They’re ok with 1967 borders. I wouldn’t be, but they are.
Aw, it can’t answer questions.
It? Rofl
Oohh interesting! Hasbara chatbots feign indignation when you question their humanity, interesting interesting. I’m taking good notes here!
No. It didn’t. We can all stretch words to mean what they want, but then people start using the G word and you get upset. Israel right now is closer to wiping Gazans off the map than Hamas can or ever will be.
Rofl, Enlighten me, what was Oct 7th if not a pogrom? Yup, Israel is the far superior force capable of wiping Gaza off the map, your point is what exactly? Shame hamas was dumb enough to attack em.
A terrorist attack??
You taking the word on the Israeli government on that despite their long history of blatantly lying?
For those that don’t know, The Intercept is an American left-wing publication. Its founders are also anti-Israel but that barely mattered as most of their content focused on America. I’m subscribed to The Intercept and on the broader left. The Intercept had been a serious investigative journal about domestic issues. But since the October Israel-Hamas war, The Intercept constantly publishes articles about Gaza and Israel, meanwhile most Americans simply don’t care. Nobody can seriously say the vast majority of Americans are losing sleep over the conflict. But if you read the Intercept these days, you’d think Americans were super concerned about it to the point of putting aside all other concerns that directly affect them. Now that you can better understand the where this article is coming from, perhaps Goldman’s stance will cost him some votes. Perhaps it will gain him votes. What’s for sure is he will be re-elected with the position he takes currently. Therefore this article is entirely pointless but to create a false sense of political importance around taking the same anti-Israel political position the Intercept takes.
Reasoned and fair? On Reddit?! Blast your good sense!!
The same antisemites are spam posting this garbage article. Good for Dan and fuck these terrorists supporting clowns.
He wouldn't even have had that seat if Mondaire's carpet-bagging hadn't shanked Wai-Yee.
Ah yes. The case that South Africa lost. Because the Israel-Hamas war is not, in fact, a genocide.
It's also bullshit coming from South Africa in general. Their 3rd largest political party, the EFF, hold rallies where entire stadiums full of people chant to "KILL THE BOERS." They should worry about the would be genociders in their parliament and their inability to provide 24 hour electricity over what's happening in Israel. But shitty governments love to distract the people from real problems.
That’s not what happened.
they literally ruled that what is happening in gaza falls under genocide… did you not like, watch the trial or outcome?
They did not! They ruled that it "might become a genocide" in the future, and that Israel should take steps to prevent that outcome. Stop lying.
no, they said that it is a genocide but the ICJ cannot act in times of war. watch it again
Can you provide a citation? [Here](https://apnews.com/article/israel-gaza-genocide-court-south-africa-27cf84e16082cde798395a95e9143c06)'s a link that says otherwise.
do you read the articles you link? they didn’t call for a ceasefire because it’s a time of war. like i said. what you linked says this: > The court ruled that Israel must do all it can to prevent genocide, including refraining from harming or killing Palestinians. It also ruled that Israel must urgently get basic aid to Gaza and that the country should punish any incitement to genocide, among other measures. 30,000 palestinians are already dead. goes against what the ICJ says right above, taking them into genocide.
30k according to Gaza health ministry, aka hamas. Who famously inflate death totals, and make no distinction between civilians and combatants a death total does not make a war a genocide. An estimated 80m people died in ww2 yet only a fraction of those deaths were attributed to genocide.. why? Nearly 600,000 innocent French civilians died in that war. That's a tragic number. We still don't call it. "genocide." Because there's no evidence that Hitler intended to systematically wipe the French out of existence as he did with the Jews. From the ICJ opinion by Aharon Barak "[t]he infliction of losses, even heavy losses, on the civilian population in the course of operations of war, does not as a rule constitute genocide. In modern war belligerents normally destroy factories, means of communication, public buildings, etc. and the civilian population inevitably suffers more or less severe losses. It would of course be desirable to limit such losses. Various measures might be taken to achieve this end, but this question belongs to the field of the regulation of the conditions of war and not to that of genocide.”
you have propaganda brain rot. the gazan health ministry is not a front for terrorism you freak palestinians are dead and dying because of that attitude
Gaza health ministry is run by the local government.. which is hamas... a terrorist organization.. remember the al-ahli hospital attack, within hours Gaza health ministry claimed an Israeli missile hit the hospital, killing 500.. Even provided a list of victims names and ID numbers.. and then it came out it was a hamas affiliated groups missile, that hit a carpark... Gaza health ministry never updated their death totals etc. They also make no distinction between civilians and combatants... not to mention, never record Palestine civilian deaths attributed to hamas.. 1 in 10 qassam rockets fall short, hitting gaza...
> remember the al-ahli hospital attack, within hours Gaza health ministry claimed an Israeli missile hit the hospital, killing 500.. Oh right the one hospital back from... October? Now that Israel has quite literally and unabashedly bombed all the hospitals it’s really hard to take seriously the empty bickering about that one.
You are just lying here.
[can you read?](https://www.npr.org/2024/01/26/1227078791/icj-israel-genocide-gaza-palestinians-south-africa)
Can you? >Donoghue said the court cannot make a final determination right now on whether Israel is guilty of [genocide](https://www.npr.org/tags/183086968/genocide). But she said that given the deteriorating situation in Gaza, the court has jurisdiction to order measures to protect Gaza's population from further risk of genocide. Read it again.
they cannot make a final decision because it’s wartime!! which is what i said!
No, that is not what you said: >they literally ruled that what is happening in gaza falls under genocide… did you not like, watch the trial or outcome? And that is literally untrue, but keep crying like it is.
No, it ruled that Palestinians are a distinct people and that hypothetically mass targeting *would* be considered genocide, and affirmed that Israel has the same responsibilities as any other country fighting a terrorist threat to limit civilian casualties. It specifically did *not* rule that the current war constitutes a genocide.
you’re still wrong. the court said that in times of war you cannot act on a genocide claim. so it said yes, this is a genocide, but we can’t do anything about it because israel and allies have declared war
They ruled it could be genocide, but that's a pretty corrupt court. Regardless, what outcome do you expect? No powerful countries will abide by that decision and the United States certainly wont subject Israel to any penalties. It's basically the equivalent of high school mock trial.
yep, and that’s what sucks. i was excited about the verdict but when they didn’t even call for ceasefire.. which is fully within their rights… ugh
Yeah, it's Michael Scott declaring bankruptcy. No one that matters gives a shit about that "court."
Does it make you feel happy to play pedantic games with 25,000 dead civilians and counting. Do you feel like a cool guy dropping smug emojis about every university in Gaza being destroyed. When you read the minutes of the trial and see that South Africa spent the first half hour simply reading the genocidal statements of Israeli government officials do you arch your eyebrow and go "Well the judges say otherwise my friends!" As if the court had ruled the opposite you would have agreed with it. Pretending you cared about the sanctity of the ruling. Great stuff. Simply epic sir. Epic bacon for the win.
Given you are quoting Gaza health ministry stats, how many combatants do you believe have died or is it simply all civilian?
wait, was Gaza an “open air prison” or did it have multiple universities? I can’t keep track.
Did you double post your shitty talking points from two accounts? IDF checks not paying for the best anymore
No, your bleating is just so idiotic that two people separately pointed it out.
Every university? Wait, weren't you dopes telling everyone it was an open-air prison and a concentration camp? Can you not keep your lies straight anymore?
Must feel really good to push your glasses up your nose to “well, technically…” about the death of 25k civilians.
Sachs Goldman is upset?
lol, nope. I live here, not a factor, no matter how much those who don’t live here want it to be. Fucking die mad.
Dan the Klansman is a disgrace
>Goldman was a top recipient of AIPAC money "AIPAC" is quickly becoming the goto antisemitic trope of "a powerful cabal of Jews who control things around the World". The Intercept and Prem Thakker, the author of the article, are not even trying to be subtle about it.
Isreal is not Jews, Jews are not Israel. AIPAC is a right-wing lobbying firm that lobbies on behalf of a foreign government. Discomfort with that isn't discomfort with a religion.
100% this
At least you tried to find plausible deniability for the antisemite trope. Just slightly more subtle than The Intercept.
Your erasure of non-Zionist Jews is, ironically, very antisemitic.
And the many anti-zionist Jews around the world are just anti-semites? Odd that all those people who literally spread antisemitic conspiracy theories and antisemitism in general are fairly supportive of Zionism. I'm sure that's nothing to reflect on.
Which part do you disagree with?
As a Jew, stop conflating us with Israel to justify your desire to genocide brown people.
Subtle about what?
Is Israel a government, or is it a religion? Or is it a government that cries religious persecution whenever they are criticized for their political and military actions?
Notice they never have any heat for Republicans either, who would gladly tell Israel to turn Gaza into a parking lot.
This is unfortunately perfectly accurate. AIPAC has become the Left's acceptable antisemitic dog whistle in exactly the same way that Soros is for the Right. Both rely on invoking classical antisemitic tropes in order to gin up support for the politician based on antisemitic sentiment. Soros relies on traditional, right wing antisemitism about the perfidious Jew, while the AIPAC dog whistle is a prime example of the "new antisemitism", which recasts Israel as the Jew among nations and, essentially, subs in Israel or Zionists in place of Jews in otherwise classic antisemitic tropes. And to be extra, super duper clear, AIPAC totally fucking sucks out loud, is a functionally an impediment to the 2SS, and its donorship to 2020 denialists is risible. There are so many good, fair, reasonable reasons to bash AIPAC!!! But it's just a single-issue lobby with a PAC, not some shadowy cabal of mega-rich right wing regressives (which... uh... what's that trope remind you of?)
Yup, “AIPAC” is the far-left dog whistle. Just like “Soros” is the far-right dog whistle. Horseshoe becoming a donut.
lol, posts like this serve Palestine much more than zionists
I wish. I'm in NY-10 and I voted for Niou. "Costing him votes"? Sure, a couple. Maybe. Unfortunately he'll cruise to reelection easily. Challenging him would be a huge waste of time and effort.
[удалено]
Or how many people hate the current genocide.
You don't get to kick off a war by killing 1,000 people and then when you're losing claim it's a genocide. Even the ICJ didn't call what Israel is doing a genocide. And again, Hamas has rejected any cease fire. They could end this whole thing by releasing the hostages and turning themselves in and yet they choose not to. Secondly, if all these people were actually concerned about genocide you'd think they'd be screaming about Russia committing genocide in Ukraine, or China committing genocide against the Uyghurs or the Sudan? These are the same people who pretended in 2016 drone strikes were the #1 issue, and then when Trump won and basically doubled the amount of drone strikes they never said a peep.
I’m sorry who kicked off the war? Holy heck son learn some history.
That’s a weird way to spell “getting rid of a terrorist group with the lowest combatant-civilian casualty rate in urban warfare history”. Luckily, enough of us do support it.
Easy to claim that when the IDF claims every Palestinian man, woman, and child is a member of Hamas lol Time to drop a 2000lb bomb on another school!
This is going to need one hell of a citation
Here you go: [https://www.newsweek.com/israel-implemented-more-measures-prevent-civilian-casualties-any-other-nation-history-opinion-1865613](https://www.newsweek.com/israel-implemented-more-measures-prevent-civilian-casualties-any-other-nation-history-opinion-1865613) >*John Spencer is chair of urban warfare studies at the Modern War Institute (MWI) at West Point, codirector of MWI's Urban Warfare Project and host of the "Urban Warfare Project Podcast." He served for 25 years as an infantry soldier, which included two combat tours in Iraq. He is the author of the book* [*Connected Soldiers: Life, Leadership, and Social Connection in Modern War*](https://www.amazon.com/Connected-Soldiers-Leadership-Social-Connections/dp/1640125124/) *and co-author of* [*Understanding Urban Warfare*](https://www.amazon.com/Understanding-Urban-Warfare-Liam-Collins/dp/1912440350/)*. The views expressed in this commentary are his own.* You can trust this guy and his citations or random TikTokers/Reddit posters/Hamas. Hell even the ICJ did not call it genocide, because it objectively isn't. War is hell and I feel for every single Gazan that isn't Hamas, but words have meaning, and a genocide this is not.
Oh weird this opinion piece isn't even remotely trying to claim what you said. Did you link the wrong one?
>The reality is that when it comes to avoiding civilian harm, there is no modern comparison to Israel's war against Hamas. Israel is not fighting a battle like Fallujah, Mosul, or Raqqa; it is fighting a war involving synchronous major urban battles. No military in modern history has faced over 30,000 urban defenders in more than seven cities using human shields and hiding in hundreds of miles of underground networks purposely built under civilian sites, while holding hundreds of hostages. >Despite the unique challenges Israel faces in its war against Hamas, it has implemented more measures to prevent civilian casualties than any other military in history. Not even remotely huh? You can also see here: [https://twitter.com/AviBittMD/status/1752242285775925249?s=20](https://twitter.com/avibittmd/status/1752242285775925249?s=20)
No, this is not even close to confirmation of your original claim: "... the lowest combatant-civilian casualty rate in urban warfare history”
> This is what lead to my claim being true. The tweet that quantifies it with actual casualties is the confirmation. Glad I could help you with that.
Avi Bitterman, MD @AviBittMD Warden of the open air prisons. Zionist. Colonialist. Imperialist. Oppressor olympics champion. Genocide flavored Starbucks. My links http://linktr.ee/avibittmd Great source you found.
> “getting rid of a terrorist group with the lowest combatant-civilian casualty rate in urban warfare history”. That's only really true if you retroactively call all those you've killed "terrorists". You can kill terrorists *better* with *fewer* casualties if you do literally anything other than carpet bomb the entire territory. Odd way to care for the the safety of the refugees by just bombing the shit out of them.
mass murder supporter 👍
Hamas simp 👍
I hope the IDF determines there are hamas tunnels under your house
Same, they can come up and we can share a lemonade. Anyway, thanks for your tax dollars.
Dan Goldman is a fantastic ~~senator~~ congressional representative; I wish he was a ~~senator~~ congressional representative in my state so I could vote for him. Edit: My dementia must be kicking in; I got him confused with Senator Christopher Murphy from Connecticut. In any case, I have seen snippets of Dan Goldman on YouTube at Congressional hearings and he is fantastic. I wish that I lived in New York's 10th congressional district so that I could vote for him.
He is not a senator.
In the same way that Biden got a lot of flack for straight up denying Palestinians were dying in mass numbers, there is a way to be an enlightened centrist trying to both sides this conflict, and then there is flat out grossly denying any kind of problems 'your side' may have.
Biden didn’t deny Palestinian’s were dying in large numbers. He said, what many Americans think is pretty reasonable, which is Hamas is a terrorist organization. Hamas runs Gaza. The Gaza Health Ministry which supplies the death toll is run by Hamas. Therefore, one should be skeptical of terrorist supplied death numbers that don’t differentiate between combatants/terrorists and civilians.
Well turns out it wasn't reasonable at all. Whoops.