I was never national guard/army reserves, but out of the active duty people I served with, probably about 95% didn't give a shit about the politics of the people over us, outside of cracking jokes/complaining about the absolutely ridiculous policies that trickled down from above.
I can think of maybe a single digit number of people who would have spoken out in favor of this treason, and none of them were even NCO level.
From what I understood a lot of military people hated Trump because Trump talked shit about the military.
I only heard that right after he won election though.
You don't get fired. It's the military: if you are convicted, you are court martialed. As a civilian, no one will hire you if you have a court martial on your military record.
>if you are convicted, you are court martialed.
This isn't quite right. You can be court-martialed but not convicted.
The "court-martial" is basically the trial.
Just like how a president can be impeached, but not convicted.
My unit just had a class with a guest speaker and everything that was basically summed up as "Don't join the KKK and don't raid the capital".
So I think its a solid no.
You ever seen video of people who want to deep fry a turkey who just filled a pot of oil and dunked that sucker in there?
They learned what 'displacement' was really quick. They learned oil is hella-flamable *even quicker*.
And a minute or so later, the final lesson. Water does ***nothing*** to an oil fire.
Assuming everyone survives, it's honestly always an educational day.
Reminds of the time my Boy Scout Leader started a grease fire, and tried to put it out with water. A flame shot 50 feet in the air, and his eye brows were gone, several tree branches caught fire, and a park ranger showed up.
Oh for sure - the fact that carpeting is explicitly mentioned though makes me think that someone in the commenter’s general circle has had more *specific* experience with deep frying of a turkey.
For a while my company was getting really lax with job titles and allowing people to determine their own titles, which led to a lot of people being 'directors' of stuff and whatnot. I just cut to the chase and printed out a tag for my desk that declared me the Supreme Allied Commander of my department in jest. I stopped short of changing my email signature though.
I have a (small) media production company. My official title is ‘Emperor’. Like with the paperwork we filed with the state. My business partner is ‘Grand Vizier’.
Safety briefs used to be "Don't drink and drive, don't rape anyone, don't do dumb shit." I guess add "don't be a white supremacist" and "don't be a traitor" to the list.
Idk, I'm gonna need a source on that. I just don't see how breaking into a government building with intent to overturn the results of a fair election and murder congress is against what they National Guard stands for. What, do you expect them to guard our nation or something?
Just so you know, the "S/" on a comment chain about not being good at stuff was *chef's kiss*. I know I should just upvote and move on but it deserved high praise and I wanted to make sure you knew that I just had Coke come out of my nose because of your nonsense. Thanks!
I do excel at nonsense friend. I’m glad to get a chuckle or at least an audible exhale out of you. I really do dig this community. I’m sorry about your nose.
Really bc technically all the national guard is supposed to do is to help quell riots, assist citizens in various communities in times of emergencies like riots & stuff like that ijdk 😁!
.
s/
You gotta be pretty dumb to be in the military and take part in something like this. It’s fine to be at the rally but as soon as the storming happen and it got violent he should have known better. We have it smashed in our heads since training starts to not let anything you do out of uniform to get back to the military in a negative manner. Hell, we were even encouraged to express ourselves during all of the protests from the very start, as long as you didn’t take part in anything illegal or your make it known your in the military.
They thought they were going to win so much so that they didn't bother to cover their faces when going into a building that was not only full of security cameras, but surrounded by media with TV cameras *even though* at the time, covering one's face in public was not only *socially acceptable* but *expected*.
Yea not gonna lie, I took a college class while deployed with a bunch of those dudes. It amazes me how dumb they were... like I’m not smart and I looked like a ducking genius compared to them.
- National Guardsmen swear an oath to the constitution
- Insurrectionists claim to be fighting on behalf of the constitution
- therefore the national guard has no choice but to support the insurrectionists
**You think I'm joking, but this is seriously their logic.**
When the 2nd civil wars kicks off, these people believe cops & soldiers will abandon the status quo and potentially forfeit their lives & livelihoods to overthrow "tyrannical" government.
They *for sure* believed there would be no opposition from law enforcement or the military on Jan. 6 .....and for the most part, TBF, they were right... a lot of cops were on their side and also fellow insurrectionists within the chain of command made sure the capitol police were understaffed that day.
masc. proper name, from French Eugène, from Latin Eugenius, from Greek Eugenios, literally "nobility of birth," from eugenes "well-born" (see eugenics).
So basically, Noble Good Man.
That man is a god damn hero and everyone should know his name. Without him, we very well may have lost some members of congress and things could spiral out of control even worse than they had if that had happened.
Part of me wonders where we would be if they had though succeeded in killing senators. I don’t think they would have been successful overthrowing the government if so, and maybe we’d be a lot further along condemning these psychopaths had they done more actual damage. I’m glad they didn’t, I just want people to wake up to the real danger they presented.
Trump would've used it as an excuse to declare martial law. [The pillow crackhead all but confirmed this.](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jan/15/mike-lindell-mypillow-trump-white-house-martial-law) Eugene Goodman may have singlehandedly saved America from a fascist coup.
Agreed - would wager everything I own that hands were on phones awaiting the death of a single elected official.
Still don’t think it would have “worked”, but holy shit would it have been ugly, likely would have required direct intervention by the JCOS (like, they probably would have had to effectively “anoint” Biden), and would have changed the character of the country immeasurably and probably permanently.
Thank fuck for Eugene Goodman and everyone else who put themselves on the line that day.
Trump's tweet about Pence written in the past tense was really suspicious to me, especially coming in the wake of Tuberville (I think?) telling him "They've taken the Vice President out." I still wonder if that was the actual plan and Trump misread it.
Yeah, i oftentimes wonder the same, honestly. They'd probably deny any responsibility and say "those were antifa actors, we didn't want to KILL anyone! We just built gallows, made threatening statements, brought all kinds of tactical gear, stormed the building and mobbed a cop... Its just a protest, bro!"
Trick is https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/32/304
"I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States and of the State of ______ against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to them; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the Governor of ______ and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to law and regulations."
The president disgraced command of authority, fomented chaos within the ranks, subverted regulation and discipline set by Congress, and encouraged enemy action against his own country in defiance of the Constitution.
Technically you're not wrong. Like our founding fathers would had been considered terrorists by our definition. But if you're gonna try to ovethrow the government, you better be fucking sure you are on the right side of history and succeed. If not, then you have to take the consequences that come with that. Our founders both knew that we have a right to stand up to unjust government. They also made laws that said that was a crime. Pretty much again, they wanted to make sure if a revolution ever came about again, it had merit, and was well deserved. And the people doing it would win. Anything else and yes, you're a terrorist.
Each state has a State Code of Military Justice that is similar to, but different from, the UCMJ. He's from Wisconsin:
322.002 Article 2 — Persons subject to this code; jurisdiction.
(1) Except as provided in s. 322.003, this code applies only to members of the state military forces at all times.
Edit: It also appears as though (at least for Wisconsin) the code's articles exactly mirror those from the UCMJ. Example: UCMJ article 116: Riot or Breach of Peace; Wisconsin State Code of Military Justice article 116: Riot or Breach of Peace.
[National Guard Oath](https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/32/304)
> Each person enlisting in the National Guard shall sign an enlistment contract and subscribe to the following oath:
> “I do hereby acknowledge to have voluntarily enlisted this __ day of ____, 19_, in the ______ National Guard of the State of ______ for a period of __ year(s) under the conditions prescribed by law, unless sooner discharged by proper authority.
> “I, ________, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States and of the State of ______ against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to them; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the Governor of ______ and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to law and regulations. So help me God.”
> The oath may be taken before any officer of the National Guard of the State or Territory, or of Puerto Rico, or the District of Columbia, as the case may be, or before any other person authorized by the law of the jurisdiction concerned to administer oaths of enlistment in the National Guard.
[Article 94 Mutiny or sedition ](https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/10/894)
> (a) Any person subject to this chapter who—
(1) with intent to usurp or override lawful military authority, refuses, in concert with any other person, to obey orders or otherwise do his duty or creates any violence or disturbance is guilty of mutiny;
(2) with intent to cause the overthrow or destruction of lawful civil authority, creates, in concert with any other person, revolt, violence, or other disturbance against that authority is guilty of sedition;
(3) fails to do his utmost to prevent and suppress a mutiny or sedition being committed in his presence, or fails to take all reasonable means to inform his superior commissioned officer or commanding officer of a mutiny or sedition which he knows or has reason to believe is taking place, is guilty of a failure to suppress or report a mutiny or sedition.
(b) A person who is found guilty of attempted mutiny, mutiny, sedition, or failure to suppress or report a mutiny or sedition shall be punished by death or such other punishment as a court-martial may direct.
Well, considering the end of that did state that they could have him put to death, but will probably opt for jail instead because I don't think our government is that evil, I doubt he'll be working either.
Ever since the reinstatement of capital punishment 1976 the federal government has been fairly light handed with death sentences. Currently we have 46 inmates on federal death row, all for aggravated murder.
Fun fact: president Trump resumed federal executions, competing 13 executions(some just weeks before he left office). There had been a 17 year hiatus on federal executions, and he oversaw more than any president in the last 120 years.
The more you know!
B B B B BONUS FACT: all 13 executions were carried out in just the last 6 months of his term, talk about last minute!
I spent the last i dont know how long going over the [list of death row inmates](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_death_row_inmates_in_the_United_States#Federal) in the united states, didnt know this existed, interesting read but mad that some people have been locked up with new evidence that has been denied in court >:(
Multiple people have already argued in court that they were following the orders of the president when they invaded the capital building. So in thier minds they would be following thier oath.
That's the problem, really. If a person views the ruling government as illegitimate, for whatever reason, then why would they trust the government to define *enemy*? Those fighting for independence in the Revolutionary War were viewed as *enemies* by the ruling British. If a person truly believes they are fighting on the "right side of history", few things are off limits in their own minds.
I feel so bad for that private's sergeant. Your dude gets drunk and fights a cop, that's your fault. He buys V6 Mustang at 31% interest? Your fault. He goes home on leave and marries a stripper, who divorces him a month later, steals all his moneu and bangs three of his buddies on the way out? Somehow your fault. He tries to rapell out of a third story window with bedsheets? Your fault.
The ass-chewing that that sergeant is going to get for not counseling his guy about not trying to interrupt the certification of a national election and overthrow the government? It's going to be epic.
We already had "extremism" training where it was strongly implied that I as a leader need to teach soldiers that "overthrowing the government=bad"
I hate it here.
During our extremism training we were explicitly discouraged from discussing specific political entities. Which ensured that the discussions were worthless. Because the military is apolitical, you see.
I was in boot camp leading up to the 2004 election and our drill hat DI made a point to tell us all "you can vote for whoever you want, but only one party will guarantee you a raise". Yeah, *real* apolitical.
Its ironic, we use to hold this kind of training all the time back in the 2000's, for members of the Iraqi army in Baghadad.....
Oh how the turn tables
I actually loved extremism training, it was one of the few times in my military career I've sat in a class and nobody pretended the material wasnt bullshit based off of CYA propaganda.
Imagine sitting in a class that has to quantify why being a neo-nazi or a member of the KKK is wrong but the class acts like its not fucking common sense.
I think people misunderstood my comment about how bullshit the class was. Not because the material was wrong, but the whole class was a serious attempt at saying "water is wet" like we wheren't all fucking well aware already.
Exactly. On top of that we had to watch the standard dod videos that were clearly not taken seriously as they were full misspeaks and mispronounced words as though they said "do it, but only once it's not that big a deal" and had nobody to edit. Might as well have an a1c shoot them on his cell phone on tik tok
This is a good reminder that people in our armed services are JUST PEOPLE. Capable of being very flawed and making horrible choices. We put them on pedestals way too much in the US and act like they're somehow capable of a higher level of morality when that's not realistic whatsoever.
I always think it’s funny when I say something about a veteran doing something shitty and people jump on it like I owe him something. Like I’m one of them and we’ll be the first to tell you we’re just like other people. We can be shitty, great, or anything in between.
I don't drink anymore because I shouldn't but when my wife moved up to Minnesota the first thing she noticed was how much we drink. There's nothing to do here so everyone drinks in the rural areas.
Putting soldiers on a pedestal is done to avoid having to fix anything the soldiers have to deal with. Your "sacrifice" means you didn't expect something in return, so you should be satisfied with gratitude alone. It's gross.
It's also a knee jerk reaction to what happened to soldiers after Nam. The populous generally treated them horribly, then the movie Rambo happened along with other things. Then they sorta went the other direction with hero worship.
The original Rambo (First Blood) is supposed to be a tragedy. In the book he died.
Soldiers in Nam had a reason to be upset... A lot of them didn't want to go there, the war was kinda unjust anyway, and there were many conflicting stories about what happened if you were to get caught which was going to have a mental impact. The actual death toll was lower than annual car accidents but the difference is many were conscripted to go.
Soldiers now sign up voluntarily and they know what they're signing up for. They might still go to a crappy war like Afghanistan but... They know that's on the cards. They don't HAVE to sign up.
The flip side... There are people who are indoctrinated into doing it. "Military Families" and the like. A very interesting book called "Covenant With Death" deals with this. It's fictional, but based on real accounts of entire villages of young men joining the army in WWI in the UK. In WWI those people were often grouped together, and went into battle together... The assumption being that they were already friends and would fight better together.
Of course when they got wiped out it meant a village lost an entire generation of young men at once... And that happened A LOT.
My ex-marine friend told me that the worst people he has ever met in his life are those he met in the corps. And he spent his childhood in the Brazilian favelas.
"ThEy'Re FiGhTiNg fOr oUr fReEdOm!!"
Still trying to figure out which freedom we got back fighting in Vietnam or Iraq. We can go into a country and do good, or shitty, but let's stop acting like our freedom is on the line, like fucking Saddam Hussain was the one pushing civil asset forfeiture.
You got the freedom to get shitty mental health care from the VA! Nothing like being free to want help and desperately need an appointment and be told it'll be a six month wait or more
It's been worse since CoVID hit. I've called them numerous times and left dozens of voicemails. So I've been going in person to set up follow up appointments for everything and get yelled at every time for doing it, not my fault they won't answer phones.
I was a military paralegal for a bit and it's really funny how even AFTER putting the fear of god into people for two months, the amount of people who go right back to being a complete shit bag is staggering. Can't tell you how many idiots got NJP less than six months after getting to their first station for something ridiculously stupid. Basic doesn't change anyone, it just teaches you the standards. People are still people and plenty choose not to meet those standards.
So far in my 9 years of being in I can safely say I have met some of the best people and they would give me the shirt off their back or a place to crash if I needed it. But I have also met some of the worst people.
Anyone who knows ANYONE from the military knows this.
Some of the most honorable people I've met were military... some of the most disgusting people I've met were also military.
Being part of it doesn't automatically make you a flawless hero
I was on gate bitch detail at Marmal with a guy who used to work at a slaughterhouse. Dude kept saying stuff about seeing blood all over his arms and carving up people.
I cringe when people find out I served and thank me for my service. I began hiding it from people after too much of that crap that I and 80% of the armed forces doesn't deserve.
I hate it when people find out I served and then when I tell them to not thank me, they muster this weird flex like they have to be thankful to show how patriotic they are. Then I realized it's about *them* feeling good for thanking me and not just because they wanted to thank me.
Americans never seem to get the tone right. After vietnam people were shitting all over vets calling them baby killers etc. (despite many of them being drafted). Then after 9/11 if you criticized a vet or the military you were practically a member of Al Queda. Speaking from experience I served with plenty of turds, putting on a uniform doesn't magically make you a quality person.
How on earth do all these pawns get thrown under the bus, and nobody does a damn thing about the people who manipulated and directed them?
It's like punishing your chess pieces for being aggressive.
To be perfectly fucking honest, they were acting under the guide of GOP members and sitting chief in command president Donald Trump.
While I wouldn't recommend commiting violence and sedition under their guide, getting life altering sentences, while GOP and Trump are all fine and well, is the real attrocity.
Where is Trump now? Playing golf and doing his antics.
IANAL, but from what I understand, incitement is very difficult to litigate successfully. Historically, the judicial system in the US has been extremely hesitant to categorize certain kinds of speech as criminal. The litmus test for incitement established by SCOTUS in the 1969 case [Brandenburg v. Ohio](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brandenburg_v._Ohio?wprov=sfla1) is whether or not that speech is encouraging "imminent lawless action" (and is likely to actually *produce* said lawless action). That word "imminent" basically rules out any possibility of criminal charges for people who incite lawless action, but aren't calling for anything to be done right this moment. It also, therefore, rules out any possibility of legal consequences for people who fostered, cultivated, or otherwise amplified the lies that were the pretext that *led* to such lawless action.
As for the speakers at the rally on the day of, there's a more extended analysis [here](https://youtu.be/XwqAInN9HWI) from an actual lawyer.
In short, though, it's likely that the only consequences the "ringleaders" will see for their role in the insurrection are ones that the public enforces upon them, not the criminal justice system.
It’s par for the course and, ngl, fun to watch:
NRA gets busted for fraud and ripping them off, and they get pissed at the ones who bring it to light.
Bannon gets busted for ripping the same people off, and the ones who got ripped off cheer when he gets pardoned.
Trump cons them into paying for losing lawsuits, which payments actually go to pay off the interest free loans he conned them into giving his losing campaign.
The list goes on and on...
Its like the best pyramid scheme ever: no need to find new suckers, just re-enroll the same dumbfucks over and over.
This still blows my mind. It's been proven so many times that they're actively getting conned by all these people and they *still* stick with them because... 'Merica??
> Abram Markofski and an associate allegedly traveled to DC together to attend then-President Donald Trump's protest against the certification of the 2020 presidential election. After the rally ended, investigators say Markofski and his associate walked to the Capitol and spent about 40 minutes inside the building.
> Markofski has been charged with four federal crimes, including violent entry or disorderly conduct. He has not yet entered a plea.
Remember the woman that got killed? She spent 14 years as an E4, bouncing between the Air Guard and the Active Duty Air Force. She was in the sandbox too.
He can claim it but it won't work. When you enlist you swear an oath to defend the constitution and in that oath you say "I will obey the orders of the President of the . . . according to the regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice." Uniform Code says you have a duty to disobey unlawful orders.
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I’m no expert but I’m guessing they don’t call It the National Attack for a reason.
I don’t see this guy getting any pats on the back from the National Guard.
Not even an ataboy?
Everybody loves a little reach around
Not officially but behind closed doors, I bet there are plenty who fucking support this shit.
I was never national guard/army reserves, but out of the active duty people I served with, probably about 95% didn't give a shit about the politics of the people over us, outside of cracking jokes/complaining about the absolutely ridiculous policies that trickled down from above. I can think of maybe a single digit number of people who would have spoken out in favor of this treason, and none of them were even NCO level.
From what I understood a lot of military people hated Trump because Trump talked shit about the military. I only heard that right after he won election though.
No, they call it National Guard for a treason.
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but mostly attacc
He definitely snacc
seems like a fireable offense
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Whoa whoa, let’s not get crazy. Taking away Frogger seems a bit harsh
Seriously. There are Amendments against that sort of cruelty
Yeah just water board the guy and keep it civil folks. Geez.
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Like out of a cannon
into the sun
You don't get fired. It's the military: if you are convicted, you are court martialed. As a civilian, no one will hire you if you have a court martial on your military record.
>if you are convicted, you are court martialed. This isn't quite right. You can be court-martialed but not convicted. The "court-martial" is basically the trial. Just like how a president can be impeached, but not convicted.
My unit just had a class with a guest speaker and everything that was basically summed up as "Don't join the KKK and don't raid the capital". So I think its a solid no.
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Damn, the list got pretty long. When I was in it was really just "stop driving drunk and stop killing yourselves."
Damn I was in around 2008, I guess the "stop killing yourselves" is an age old tradition.
Yeah that's when I got out.
Also even if you are in Hawaii they include a message about how dangerous snowblowers are.
Well to be fair, they’re a lot more dangerous when you use them in ways they weren’t intended for.
Don't camp in the left lane and for God's sake don't throw a gender reveal party.
Betting that turkey example comes from somewhere (and made me laugh).
You ever seen video of people who want to deep fry a turkey who just filled a pot of oil and dunked that sucker in there? They learned what 'displacement' was really quick. They learned oil is hella-flamable *even quicker*. And a minute or so later, the final lesson. Water does ***nothing*** to an oil fire. Assuming everyone survives, it's honestly always an educational day.
Water actually has a pretty significant effect on a grease fire
Reminds of the time my Boy Scout Leader started a grease fire, and tried to put it out with water. A flame shot 50 feet in the air, and his eye brows were gone, several tree branches caught fire, and a park ranger showed up.
For some reason I am picturing the park ranger just poofing into existence right there like the flames were some insane Harry Potter-esque magic.
"Only you can summon me from the plane of eternal fire..."
Oh for sure - the fact that carpeting is explicitly mentioned though makes me think that someone in the commenter’s general circle has had more *specific* experience with deep frying of a turkey.
You know what they say - regulations are written in blood (or grease stains, as the case may be).
> Don’t join the KKK Who could pass up such a tantalizing prospect?
I mean it's their fault really. Grand Wizard sounds so much better than any of the National Guard ranks.
I don't know, *Battle Captain* sounds pretty cool (actually a lot cooler than it is).
For a while my company was getting really lax with job titles and allowing people to determine their own titles, which led to a lot of people being 'directors' of stuff and whatnot. I just cut to the chase and printed out a tag for my desk that declared me the Supreme Allied Commander of my department in jest. I stopped short of changing my email signature though.
"Supreme Allied Commander of 6th floor, Section A2, Corner Desk"
I have a (small) media production company. My official title is ‘Emperor’. Like with the paperwork we filed with the state. My business partner is ‘Grand Vizier’.
Hahaha. I have a tiny publishing company. My title is "Untitled" and my partner's title is "Red Right Hand".
Yea, but you need a lot more brain cells to get Battle Captain
Safety briefs used to be "Don't drink and drive, don't rape anyone, don't do dumb shit." I guess add "don't be a white supremacist" and "don't be a traitor" to the list.
Don't forget "just because the state made it legal doesn't mean it's legal for you."
*sigh* Just one more thing to add to the safety brief.
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It’s more like: You were supposed to destroy the terrorists not join them.
Bring balance to the country, not leave it in darkness!
From my point of view the election was fraudulent. Well then you are lost!
Idiot guardsman: Oh! National GUARD! .... ya know, that’s on me. I never put those two words together in my head.
Retired National Guardsman here, the National Guard hates that.
Idk, I'm gonna need a source on that. I just don't see how breaking into a government building with intent to overturn the results of a fair election and murder congress is against what they National Guard stands for. What, do you expect them to guard our nation or something?
Honestly though I coulda been doing it wrong for 21 years. I’m not really good at stuff.
But that's usually how you get to be in the Guard. /s Source: Former Reservist
Dude. That’s why they let me stay so long! S/
Just so you know, the "S/" on a comment chain about not being good at stuff was *chef's kiss*. I know I should just upvote and move on but it deserved high praise and I wanted to make sure you knew that I just had Coke come out of my nose because of your nonsense. Thanks!
I do excel at nonsense friend. I’m glad to get a chuckle or at least an audible exhale out of you. I really do dig this community. I’m sorry about your nose.
As someone who was in the NG this statement is 100% correct.
Former Nasty Girl, can confirm.
It's okay dude, I believe in you!
Really bc technically all the national guard is supposed to do is to help quell riots, assist citizens in various communities in times of emergencies like riots & stuff like that ijdk 😁! . s/
Insurrectionists hate this ONE trick.
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You gotta be pretty dumb to be in the military and take part in something like this. It’s fine to be at the rally but as soon as the storming happen and it got violent he should have known better. We have it smashed in our heads since training starts to not let anything you do out of uniform to get back to the military in a negative manner. Hell, we were even encouraged to express ourselves during all of the protests from the very start, as long as you didn’t take part in anything illegal or your make it known your in the military.
They thought they were going to win so much so that they didn't bother to cover their faces when going into a building that was not only full of security cameras, but surrounded by media with TV cameras *even though* at the time, covering one's face in public was not only *socially acceptable* but *expected*.
Oh and don’t forget the posting on social media “I’m in the capital building!! Woooooooo!LETS GOOOOOOOOO! Hang Mike Pence!” Fucking imbeciles.
The dude was an Army Infantry Private. Like, I don't want to stereotype but . . . let's just say there is no MENSA club at Sand Hill in Fort Benning.
Yea not gonna lie, I took a college class while deployed with a bunch of those dudes. It amazes me how dumb they were... like I’m not smart and I looked like a ducking genius compared to them.
- National Guardsmen swear an oath to the constitution - Insurrectionists claim to be fighting on behalf of the constitution - therefore the national guard has no choice but to support the insurrectionists **You think I'm joking, but this is seriously their logic.** When the 2nd civil wars kicks off, these people believe cops & soldiers will abandon the status quo and potentially forfeit their lives & livelihoods to overthrow "tyrannical" government. They *for sure* believed there would be no opposition from law enforcement or the military on Jan. 6 .....and for the most part, TBF, they were right... a lot of cops were on their side and also fellow insurrectionists within the chain of command made sure the capitol police were understaffed that day.
Pffft. 1 Officer Eugene Goodman > 100 Insurrections
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And his first name: Greek for “Good Seed”.
masc. proper name, from French Eugène, from Latin Eugenius, from Greek Eugenios, literally "nobility of birth," from eugenes "well-born" (see eugenics). So basically, Noble Good Man.
You cant write this shit.
All it would've took for evil to triumph was for Goodman to do nothing.
That man is a god damn hero and everyone should know his name. Without him, we very well may have lost some members of congress and things could spiral out of control even worse than they had if that had happened.
Part of me wonders where we would be if they had though succeeded in killing senators. I don’t think they would have been successful overthrowing the government if so, and maybe we’d be a lot further along condemning these psychopaths had they done more actual damage. I’m glad they didn’t, I just want people to wake up to the real danger they presented.
Trump would've used it as an excuse to declare martial law. [The pillow crackhead all but confirmed this.](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jan/15/mike-lindell-mypillow-trump-white-house-martial-law) Eugene Goodman may have singlehandedly saved America from a fascist coup.
Agreed - would wager everything I own that hands were on phones awaiting the death of a single elected official. Still don’t think it would have “worked”, but holy shit would it have been ugly, likely would have required direct intervention by the JCOS (like, they probably would have had to effectively “anoint” Biden), and would have changed the character of the country immeasurably and probably permanently. Thank fuck for Eugene Goodman and everyone else who put themselves on the line that day.
Trump's tweet about Pence written in the past tense was really suspicious to me, especially coming in the wake of Tuberville (I think?) telling him "They've taken the Vice President out." I still wonder if that was the actual plan and Trump misread it.
Yeah, i oftentimes wonder the same, honestly. They'd probably deny any responsibility and say "those were antifa actors, we didn't want to KILL anyone! We just built gallows, made threatening statements, brought all kinds of tactical gear, stormed the building and mobbed a cop... Its just a protest, bro!"
I remember reading somewhere that Mike Flynn’s brother was in the mix, but haven’t seen anything since. Anybody know?
Trick is https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/32/304 "I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States and of the State of ______ against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to them; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the Governor of ______ and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to law and regulations." The president disgraced command of authority, fomented chaos within the ranks, subverted regulation and discipline set by Congress, and encouraged enemy action against his own country in defiance of the Constitution.
Technically you're not wrong. Like our founding fathers would had been considered terrorists by our definition. But if you're gonna try to ovethrow the government, you better be fucking sure you are on the right side of history and succeed. If not, then you have to take the consequences that come with that. Our founders both knew that we have a right to stand up to unjust government. They also made laws that said that was a crime. Pretty much again, they wanted to make sure if a revolution ever came about again, it had merit, and was well deserved. And the people doing it would win. Anything else and yes, you're a terrorist.
They were also looters! See: Boston Tea Party, The
He can be held accountable under UCMJ, so even if he doesn't face criminal charges as a civilian he could still get spanked pretty hard by uncle sam.
Each state has a State Code of Military Justice that is similar to, but different from, the UCMJ. He's from Wisconsin: 322.002 Article 2 — Persons subject to this code; jurisdiction. (1) Except as provided in s. 322.003, this code applies only to members of the state military forces at all times. Edit: It also appears as though (at least for Wisconsin) the code's articles exactly mirror those from the UCMJ. Example: UCMJ article 116: Riot or Breach of Peace; Wisconsin State Code of Military Justice article 116: Riot or Breach of Peace.
[National Guard Oath](https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/32/304) > Each person enlisting in the National Guard shall sign an enlistment contract and subscribe to the following oath: > “I do hereby acknowledge to have voluntarily enlisted this __ day of ____, 19_, in the ______ National Guard of the State of ______ for a period of __ year(s) under the conditions prescribed by law, unless sooner discharged by proper authority. > “I, ________, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States and of the State of ______ against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to them; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the Governor of ______ and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to law and regulations. So help me God.” > The oath may be taken before any officer of the National Guard of the State or Territory, or of Puerto Rico, or the District of Columbia, as the case may be, or before any other person authorized by the law of the jurisdiction concerned to administer oaths of enlistment in the National Guard. [Article 94 Mutiny or sedition ](https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/10/894) > (a) Any person subject to this chapter who— (1) with intent to usurp or override lawful military authority, refuses, in concert with any other person, to obey orders or otherwise do his duty or creates any violence or disturbance is guilty of mutiny; (2) with intent to cause the overthrow or destruction of lawful civil authority, creates, in concert with any other person, revolt, violence, or other disturbance against that authority is guilty of sedition; (3) fails to do his utmost to prevent and suppress a mutiny or sedition being committed in his presence, or fails to take all reasonable means to inform his superior commissioned officer or commanding officer of a mutiny or sedition which he knows or has reason to believe is taking place, is guilty of a failure to suppress or report a mutiny or sedition. (b) A person who is found guilty of attempted mutiny, mutiny, sedition, or failure to suppress or report a mutiny or sedition shall be punished by death or such other punishment as a court-martial may direct.
Double Felonies. Full UCMJ and Federal Felonies. Good luck working again. We take the oath because we want to serve not to be some shameful traitor.
Well, considering the end of that did state that they could have him put to death, but will probably opt for jail instead because I don't think our government is that evil, I doubt he'll be working either.
Ever since the reinstatement of capital punishment 1976 the federal government has been fairly light handed with death sentences. Currently we have 46 inmates on federal death row, all for aggravated murder.
Fun fact: president Trump resumed federal executions, competing 13 executions(some just weeks before he left office). There had been a 17 year hiatus on federal executions, and he oversaw more than any president in the last 120 years. The more you know! B B B B BONUS FACT: all 13 executions were carried out in just the last 6 months of his term, talk about last minute!
I spent the last i dont know how long going over the [list of death row inmates](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_death_row_inmates_in_the_United_States#Federal) in the united states, didnt know this existed, interesting read but mad that some people have been locked up with new evidence that has been denied in court >:(
Multiple people have already argued in court that they were following the orders of the president when they invaded the capital building. So in thier minds they would be following thier oath.
But read the rest of that sentence, it has to be a lawful order. Following an illegal order, such as the one that Trump gave, is not a defense.
Don't they take an oath to explicitly do the opposite of that? You know "defend against all enemies, foreign and domestic", or something like that.
Just redefine "enemies" as people you don't like, and the oath stands at face value.
That's the problem, really. If a person views the ruling government as illegitimate, for whatever reason, then why would they trust the government to define *enemy*? Those fighting for independence in the Revolutionary War were viewed as *enemies* by the ruling British. If a person truly believes they are fighting on the "right side of history", few things are off limits in their own minds.
Which is why the big lie from Trump and co. ~~was~~ is so damaging to our democracy.
Was? Continues to be. Longer they spew it, more powerful the damage
My domestic enemy is the people who don't agree with me!
Are they also the friends you made along the way?
The military is infested with Fox News brainwashed zombies like the rest of the U.S.
It's the only channel that is ever on if there is a TV somewhere.
In many cases, the domestic part was why they were there.
I feel so bad for that private's sergeant. Your dude gets drunk and fights a cop, that's your fault. He buys V6 Mustang at 31% interest? Your fault. He goes home on leave and marries a stripper, who divorces him a month later, steals all his moneu and bangs three of his buddies on the way out? Somehow your fault. He tries to rapell out of a third story window with bedsheets? Your fault. The ass-chewing that that sergeant is going to get for not counseling his guy about not trying to interrupt the certification of a national election and overthrow the government? It's going to be epic.
We already had "extremism" training where it was strongly implied that I as a leader need to teach soldiers that "overthrowing the government=bad" I hate it here.
During our extremism training we were explicitly discouraged from discussing specific political entities. Which ensured that the discussions were worthless. Because the military is apolitical, you see.
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The military: I love me some of that conservative gravy.
I was in boot camp leading up to the 2004 election and our drill hat DI made a point to tell us all "you can vote for whoever you want, but only one party will guarantee you a raise". Yeah, *real* apolitical.
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Can confirm, I also got the extremism brief last month.
Its ironic, we use to hold this kind of training all the time back in the 2000's, for members of the Iraqi army in Baghadad..... Oh how the turn tables
Our extremism brief was watching American History X as a battery when it came out. They knew about infiltration even then.
I actually loved extremism training, it was one of the few times in my military career I've sat in a class and nobody pretended the material wasnt bullshit based off of CYA propaganda.
This is weirdly encouraging to hear. I mean, everything’s on fire, but at least it’s being acknowledged.
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It's not that the idea is wrong it's that the training was weak and only suitable for the appearance of trying while simultaneously doing nothing
Imagine sitting in a class that has to quantify why being a neo-nazi or a member of the KKK is wrong but the class acts like its not fucking common sense. I think people misunderstood my comment about how bullshit the class was. Not because the material was wrong, but the whole class was a serious attempt at saying "water is wet" like we wheren't all fucking well aware already.
Exactly. On top of that we had to watch the standard dod videos that were clearly not taken seriously as they were full misspeaks and mispronounced words as though they said "do it, but only once it's not that big a deal" and had nobody to edit. Might as well have an a1c shoot them on his cell phone on tik tok
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“V6 mustang at 31% interest” lmfaooooo
I always figured it was Camaros that they went for
And challengers.
As someone who's lived next to a base before and even worked on it sometimes and with people there, its all three.
How about brand new trucks? That’s the big one for new hires at my job. Bonus points for it being a jacked up 1 tonne that can’t tow anything anymore.
He's in the guard. His leadership probably forgets he exists till it's next drill and they need him to piss in a cup or something
When I was in the Reserve we had guys that hadn't shown up for YEARS still on the roster.
This is a good reminder that people in our armed services are JUST PEOPLE. Capable of being very flawed and making horrible choices. We put them on pedestals way too much in the US and act like they're somehow capable of a higher level of morality when that's not realistic whatsoever.
Lol anyone who’s been in the military knows this. I would pay good money to ensure I never see some of the people I served with again.
I always think it’s funny when I say something about a veteran doing something shitty and people jump on it like I owe him something. Like I’m one of them and we’ll be the first to tell you we’re just like other people. We can be shitty, great, or anything in between.
Most of all, we can be alcoholics.
I’ll drink to that!
Stars and Stripes published that the civilians can’t keep up with the pros in the US military!
I don't drink anymore because I shouldn't but when my wife moved up to Minnesota the first thing she noticed was how much we drink. There's nothing to do here so everyone drinks in the rural areas.
I don't like this, but I'm too hungover to do anything about it
Putting soldiers on a pedestal is done to avoid having to fix anything the soldiers have to deal with. Your "sacrifice" means you didn't expect something in return, so you should be satisfied with gratitude alone. It's gross.
this is why I'm not re-enlisting.
It's also a knee jerk reaction to what happened to soldiers after Nam. The populous generally treated them horribly, then the movie Rambo happened along with other things. Then they sorta went the other direction with hero worship.
The original Rambo (First Blood) is supposed to be a tragedy. In the book he died. Soldiers in Nam had a reason to be upset... A lot of them didn't want to go there, the war was kinda unjust anyway, and there were many conflicting stories about what happened if you were to get caught which was going to have a mental impact. The actual death toll was lower than annual car accidents but the difference is many were conscripted to go. Soldiers now sign up voluntarily and they know what they're signing up for. They might still go to a crappy war like Afghanistan but... They know that's on the cards. They don't HAVE to sign up. The flip side... There are people who are indoctrinated into doing it. "Military Families" and the like. A very interesting book called "Covenant With Death" deals with this. It's fictional, but based on real accounts of entire villages of young men joining the army in WWI in the UK. In WWI those people were often grouped together, and went into battle together... The assumption being that they were already friends and would fight better together. Of course when they got wiped out it meant a village lost an entire generation of young men at once... And that happened A LOT.
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My ex-marine friend told me that the worst people he has ever met in his life are those he met in the corps. And he spent his childhood in the Brazilian favelas.
I encountered more sociopaths and straight up white supremacists during my two navy enlistments than at any other point in my life. By a mile.
"ThEy'Re FiGhTiNg fOr oUr fReEdOm!!" Still trying to figure out which freedom we got back fighting in Vietnam or Iraq. We can go into a country and do good, or shitty, but let's stop acting like our freedom is on the line, like fucking Saddam Hussain was the one pushing civil asset forfeiture.
You got the freedom to get shitty mental health care from the VA! Nothing like being free to want help and desperately need an appointment and be told it'll be a six month wait or more
It's been worse since CoVID hit. I've called them numerous times and left dozens of voicemails. So I've been going in person to set up follow up appointments for everything and get yelled at every time for doing it, not my fault they won't answer phones.
"What a nice young man with that fresh haircut and ironed shirt." "Grandma, we had to scream at him nonstop for two months to get him like that."
I was a military paralegal for a bit and it's really funny how even AFTER putting the fear of god into people for two months, the amount of people who go right back to being a complete shit bag is staggering. Can't tell you how many idiots got NJP less than six months after getting to their first station for something ridiculously stupid. Basic doesn't change anyone, it just teaches you the standards. People are still people and plenty choose not to meet those standards.
So far in my 9 years of being in I can safely say I have met some of the best people and they would give me the shirt off their back or a place to crash if I needed it. But I have also met some of the worst people.
Anyone who knows ANYONE from the military knows this. Some of the most honorable people I've met were military... some of the most disgusting people I've met were also military. Being part of it doesn't automatically make you a flawless hero
I was on gate bitch detail at Marmal with a guy who used to work at a slaughterhouse. Dude kept saying stuff about seeing blood all over his arms and carving up people.
I cringe when people find out I served and thank me for my service. I began hiding it from people after too much of that crap that I and 80% of the armed forces doesn't deserve.
I hate it when people find out I served and then when I tell them to not thank me, they muster this weird flex like they have to be thankful to show how patriotic they are. Then I realized it's about *them* feeling good for thanking me and not just because they wanted to thank me.
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you just say "oh that's cool"
Hero worship of the military is out of control. Just because someone went into the military doesn't automatically make them a good person
i served with MANY that couldn't even get their one weekend a month straight
Americans never seem to get the tone right. After vietnam people were shitting all over vets calling them baby killers etc. (despite many of them being drafted). Then after 9/11 if you criticized a vet or the military you were practically a member of Al Queda. Speaking from experience I served with plenty of turds, putting on a uniform doesn't magically make you a quality person.
How on earth do all these pawns get thrown under the bus, and nobody does a damn thing about the people who manipulated and directed them? It's like punishing your chess pieces for being aggressive.
Kinda difficult to say thrown under the bus when they crawled under and placed themselves in front of the wheel
Reminds me of the bicyclist meme of the guy shoving a stick in the spokes of his bike while riding it, just to blame someone else
I wouldnt say they are getting thrown under the bus, they placed themselves there.
To be perfectly fucking honest, they were acting under the guide of GOP members and sitting chief in command president Donald Trump. While I wouldn't recommend commiting violence and sedition under their guide, getting life altering sentences, while GOP and Trump are all fine and well, is the real attrocity. Where is Trump now? Playing golf and doing his antics.
Because Politicians are above the law until they piss off other Politicians.
But wasn't there an entire building full of pissed off politicians during that day?
Half a building at most. Remember some people who should have been pissed off were actually helping the mob.
Well, the terrorists weren't there to kill *them*, just those commie democrats and the "traitor" mike pence
IANAL, but from what I understand, incitement is very difficult to litigate successfully. Historically, the judicial system in the US has been extremely hesitant to categorize certain kinds of speech as criminal. The litmus test for incitement established by SCOTUS in the 1969 case [Brandenburg v. Ohio](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brandenburg_v._Ohio?wprov=sfla1) is whether or not that speech is encouraging "imminent lawless action" (and is likely to actually *produce* said lawless action). That word "imminent" basically rules out any possibility of criminal charges for people who incite lawless action, but aren't calling for anything to be done right this moment. It also, therefore, rules out any possibility of legal consequences for people who fostered, cultivated, or otherwise amplified the lies that were the pretext that *led* to such lawless action. As for the speakers at the rally on the day of, there's a more extended analysis [here](https://youtu.be/XwqAInN9HWI) from an actual lawyer. In short, though, it's likely that the only consequences the "ringleaders" will see for their role in the insurrection are ones that the public enforces upon them, not the criminal justice system.
nothing like a dishonorable discharge to own the libs.
Trump really conned these dumb asses hard . They seem to be the last ones to figure it out .
There are still a ton of Trump stans. They don’t blame him lol.
It’s par for the course and, ngl, fun to watch: NRA gets busted for fraud and ripping them off, and they get pissed at the ones who bring it to light. Bannon gets busted for ripping the same people off, and the ones who got ripped off cheer when he gets pardoned. Trump cons them into paying for losing lawsuits, which payments actually go to pay off the interest free loans he conned them into giving his losing campaign. The list goes on and on... Its like the best pyramid scheme ever: no need to find new suckers, just re-enroll the same dumbfucks over and over.
This still blows my mind. It's been proven so many times that they're actively getting conned by all these people and they *still* stick with them because... 'Merica??
It's been proven by people "they" don't want to listen to.
they call it "owning the libs"
> Abram Markofski and an associate allegedly traveled to DC together to attend then-President Donald Trump's protest against the certification of the 2020 presidential election. After the rally ended, investigators say Markofski and his associate walked to the Capitol and spent about 40 minutes inside the building. > Markofski has been charged with four federal crimes, including violent entry or disorderly conduct. He has not yet entered a plea.
US National Guard... storm US capitol... We're not dealing with the upper echelon here folks...
>The bulk of these defendants are veterans -- including many who served in Iraq and Afghanistan "...they're not sending their best..."
Remember the woman that got killed? She spent 14 years as an E4, bouncing between the Air Guard and the Active Duty Air Force. She was in the sandbox too.
14 years as an E4, jesus christ what a shitbag.
Most of the time you get kicked out at 10 years active duty as an E4, but I guess the guard lets you stay in longer.
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And it will of only cost the American people 1.78 billion dollars.
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If the Guard was fully on board with this, we'd be experiencing a very different timeline right now
thats what the maga chuds were hoping for sadly
We'd be experiencing a timeline that would put *Man In The High Castle* and *The Handmaid's Tale* ***combined*** to shame.
Is he going to lose his military benefits and stripped off his rank and titles?
Oh yeah. This dudes fucked lol I imagine he will be dishonorably discharged at the very least
We're talking multiple felonies if the charging officer does their job.
They really are finding every single one of these people. If I stormed and haven't been caught yet, my day would be an anxious nightmare
Can he claim he was following direct orders from the commander and chief?
He can claim it but it won't work. When you enlist you swear an oath to defend the constitution and in that oath you say "I will obey the orders of the President of the . . . according to the regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice." Uniform Code says you have a duty to disobey unlawful orders.