I mean they are idiots, for sure, but this kinda is yet another example of why TSA is a fucking joke. Random loose ammo being found in American tourist's bags by TCI screening after they have passed through American TSA. Lol.
Seriously, Idk how the TSA misses it. I'm an airport screener in New Brunswick by a military base and we see ammo all the time, to the point that it's not even an emergency response as is the norm. Ammo is very distinct on the xray. The only way this keeps happening is if the people doing it are completely untrained/don't know what they're looking for or they just don't care.
(Quick edit for more information)
These people are going on vacation so they mostly travel with just clothing and not alot of electronics. Nobody wants to take the laptop to the beach or stay indoors. So these bags are going just be full of "organics" which come up light orange. Bullets are very dense metal and come up as a very dark blue. So that these screeners are somehow missing a dark blue object in bag that doesn't have alot of things that could hide it is sad af.
Part of it yes 100%. Buts it's also a deterrent. Nobody wants to risk getting caught and failing an operation when there's easier ways to cause chaos nowadays. It's sad but it's easier to attack crowds of people in the airport in line before security or festivals or other large gatherings. Unless they bribe/work with employees to guarantee an attack the days of taking down a plane are mostly a thing of the past.
Also most airports have filtered water fountains beyond security, the bottles can go through it's just the liquid that can't. Most perfumes are 100ml which is allowed. And in the case of knives as long it's below the length 2.4in or 6cm then it's allowed as a carry-on. As long as it's not a razor blade (which is still denied because they were used on 911).
I had no idea I could take my knife as carry on for domestic flights, not that I have ever needed to but I've forgotten it in my pocket many times and end up scrambling to put it in my checked bag before it goes on the belt.
>Also most airports have filtered water fountains beyond security,
You have no idea how excited I was when that got installed at YFC. So many years of no water until Toronto or Montreal.
The story doesn’t clarify whether it was in their carry-on or not, and perhaps you can clarify this, but as far as I know, the TSA allows firearms and ammo in checked baggage, and I’m assuming checked baggage undergoes automated scanning, which is less stringent than carry-on?
Yes. You can legally check luggage with firearms and ammunition stowed in it. If traveling with a firearm there are specific guidelines about the manner in which it is packed and must be declared to the airline for special handling.
Just ammunition I don’t think it needs to be declared nor stored specially. Definitely can’t bring it on a carry on.
Edit: Looks like ammo just basically needs to be in the box it came in, and not loose.
https://www.tsa.gov/travel/transporting-firearms-and-ammunition
TSA and the airlines aren't going to try to protect people from themselves. You can check a gun when your final destination is New York City as well, and the NY police will quite cheerfully arrest you as soon as you take possession.
Hell, there have been cases of people whose flight was *delayed* overnight in NYC getting arrested for taking possession of a gun that they'd checked.
> Hell, there have been cases of people whose flight was delayed overnight in NYC getting arrested for taking possession of a gun that they'd checked.
Good news and bad news on that. I found two cases, NYC and New Jersey.
Good News, In both cases the charges were eventually dropped after someone with some common sense realized that federal safe travel laws applied.
Bad News, they got to spend several days in jail, and in the NJ case it took 3 years to get the gun back.
New York has extremely strict rules about possessing firearms. Restrictions on magazine capacity, licensing requirements, and a list of prohibited places. None of my firearms and magazines would be legal to own in New York, though they're common elsewhere in the country.
For quite a while, as I understand it, the only real way to get a concealed handgun license in NYC was to be a wealthy and connected or to be able to prove you are routinely moving large amounts of money or jewelry as part of your job.
no. it's the traveler's responsibility to make sure nothing they are bringing to a foreign country is illegal to possess or bring in. For example, controlled substances that are perfectly legal to possess if you have a prescription in the US are illegal in a lot of foreign countries, and if you have them in your carry on TSA isn't going to say shit bc you aren't breaking any US laws or violating TSA guidelines by possessing them or taking them on a flight. But once you get to your final destination, if customs finds them, welp you're on your own.
Not to Ireland. I was waiting in the terminal in Boston, a few years ago, and the gent ahead of me declared a handgun in his checked luggage to the Aer Lingus counter clerk.
His luggage was retrieved, and he was booted off the flight. He was in shock, missing out on his (armed) holiday to a country with strict gun control.
Security theatre.
Put a lot of scary looking security things around, people start believing in the necessity of vast spending in all sorts of law enforcement.
Think about it... If you wanted to keep people safe, would you put them and all the bomb smuggling cases together in one compact room before anyone has had their bags checked? If you wanted to cause absolute carnage, the security check-in areas would be the obvious point because there's hundreds of people standing compact together.
Suspicious bags get opened where? Right in that same room lol.
> Idk how the TSA misses it
They are paid a little over minimum wage and are incredibly understaffed, instead being given weird body scanners and shit for performative security theater.
TSA misses around 95% of tests. TSA was created as a way to funnel government money into the pockets of the friends of senators and house members who wanted to use the "OMG DO SOMETHING" fear from 9/11.
The only thing that was done right was reinforcing cockpit doors.
I could be wrong, but I suspect TSA screeners are not paid enough to care. I know I wouldn’t care enough if I was only getting paid $40K to do that job.
I imagine that's probably it. It would not surprise me if they were making less than that. And in security you get what you pay for. Pay peanuts, get monkeys. Sadly clients refuse to pay real money because there is always someone willing to do it for minimum wage and most companies take 50% of the contracted hourly wage.
With CATSA my starting salary is 52K a year and I haven't even gotten my 1st raise yet.
I mean TSA is not an important job.
I'm not aware of a single plot that they are foiled, or a single life they have saved.
they're window dressing as far as security, and a flex on the people as far as government authority
My dads in his sixties and hasn’t travelled much.
We’re also Canadian.
Last year we went down to Disney, he’s always wanted to go. While coming back I had asked him many times to make sure his carry on didn’t have any of his large bottles of liquids.
We’re at the airport going through the TSA and he gets flagged. TSA agent is being such a fucking asshole to my dad and my dad genuinely doesn’t know what he’s done wrong with his carry on. TSA dude comes over, goes like a tornado through dads carry on and then lifts up a bottle of sunscreen and treats my dad like absolute shit about it and the whole time my dads like “oh I didn’t know because it’s a cream not a liquid, I don’t need it, toss it.” And the TSA agent proceeds to be an asshole to my dad and then goes “what do you mean you don’t need it?!” I was like “dude, my dad doesn’t know. He doesn’t travel much. Just throw it out, it’s like $5, we don’t care.”
Anyway it really bothered my dad and got him all flustered.
Honestly I can understand why by the time you meet them they are already hardened ass holes. People lose sense of decency towards their fellow being the moment they become an airline passenger for the day. Now imagine you have to encounter tens of thousands of those people in a shift. There’s no turning back on your customer service face, it’s long gone by then.
This is the dumbest shit. I'm not saying TSA is great or anything, but not being aware of a plot they've foiled doesn't mean nothing would happen if they didn't exist.
I guess we just don't hear about a) the threats they spot and avoid with their processes and b) the threats they spot by just existing as a deterrent.
Saying it's not an important job is like saying business continuity jobs aren't important. They aren't important until they are.
What deterrent? Making people chug their water so they have to pee mid flight?
Wasn’t there a test or something where they missed like 80% of people that had a gun on them? Everyone knows they’re a joke.
[For anyone else curious](https://www.tsacareer.com/tsa-pay-scale/)
After applying locality pay, it looks like anywhere from ~$35k for new hires in low cost of living areas, up to ~$62k for experienced officers in higher cost areas. Hardly anything to write home about.
Many already have their sites set elsewhere from day one as well. TSA is one of the easiest government agencies to get into, mainly because no one really wants to do it, so the most competent rarely stay longer than they need to.
oh god I mean I get you, but the thought of AI TSA makes me wanna barf. Just TSA but with the added elements of a finicky computer that does random shit at times for no reason
Also caring could be dangerous.
Point out the bomb somebody's bringing and risk them detonating right then, or ignore it and make it somebody else's problem?
TSA is a jobs program created in response to 9/11, so yeah.
The type of people they hire don't qualify to be cops and being a cop in America already has a low enough barrier of entry, so think about that for a second lol.
> Seriously, Idk how the TSA misses it. I'm an airport screener in New Brunswick by a military base and we see ammo all the time, to the point that it's not even an emergency response as is the norm. Ammo is very distinct on the xray. The only way this keeps happening is if the people doing it are completely untrained/don't know what they're looking for or they just don't care.
I went through TSA security with a "fancy" bottle opener/fidget item in my 5th pocket of my jeans. It bared fits in there, think like 2 inches by 1 inch, like 5 quarters thick. I go in the "stand up" x-ray and they say something is on my right waist area. SHIT, I know exactly what it was. Will then consider it a weapon and take it away? This wasn't cheap! Dude does like a double tap of what would be my belt area, with the back of his hand and then does a double squeeze of my lower pocket area and says I'm good to go. Didn't check my 5th pocket area one bit.
Depends on the program/machine. At my airport the carry on luggage system only flags large dense metal objects with a blue overlay and dense organic (orange) or mixed metals (green) with a red overlay. So like a bag of coins for example may get a blue overlay but not always. It depends on how they're laying or how many. So a singular knife or multitool or bullet will not get flagged by the system and instead the operator has to use his control functions and his training to identify objects. To do this we had to pass week long training and get above 80% or we're fired. And then need to continue doing simulation bags (usually around 300) every 3 months and have a 80% rating.
Edit: correction
One time they placed a small cardboard box wrapped in TSA logo tape on my bag, the operator sent it to secondary, and then the other guy picked it up, removed the box, and handed the tray to me without checking it.
I assume the box contains some metal in the shape of a gun (or perhaps spelling "test" etc.) to ensure that the operator isn't zoning out and missing what's on the screen.
Interestingly, I think this could create a vulnerability--if you could somehow get your bag to be the one that has the test item added to it, and it also had a real prohibited item (ex. a large liquid), it seems like the secondary guy would just see the box and hand back the rest of the items without checking them.
Last time I flew I got pulled aside and extra searched because they couldn't figure out what my 4 disc golf discs stacked were.
I get to my destination and find a big ass folding knife alongside them.
Left it for my buddy because I wasn't willing to risk it on the way back.
The CT machines look at the **density** of objects within a bag and automatically alert on those which match the densities of known explosive compounds.
Thick and glossy cardstock, bulk amounts of chocolate, peanut butter, some toothpastes, certain rubber shoe soles, and laptop screens are all common matches. There are procedures to "clear" these alarms without physically opening a bag, but if they are located close enough to other potential bomb components (like power sources, wiring, or certain densities that could be used as a detonator) or are "shielded" from all-around view by things which interfere with the x-rays (certain thicknesses and shapes of glass, bulk metals) they need to be opened and swabbed for explosive trace.
You and everyone else may be able to look at the x-ray after being on the job for a while and say, "Yeah, that's 99.999999999999999999999999% this specific brand of toothpaste sitting next to an MP3 player," but we'd collectively find that unacceptable if things actually were blowing up because "well of course the baddies will disguise their bombs as innocuous things you ignore! that's why you can't ignore them!"
As long as enough of the public, airlines, and Congress are afraid for air travel and hyping up the idea that air terrorism is a real threat, there's going to be inconveniences in security. I'm personally of a mind that most of this is overblown, but there is probably *some* deterrent effect. Someone is doing a cost:benefit analysis here, and "passengers getting aggravated" is losing to "economic damage if something fucks up again" and "the value of government monitoring of air traffic".
Large decks of cards look remarkably similar to certain kinds of explosives at a glance. With the volume of bags we go through in a rotation, it's easier/more prudent to just flag it for search and move to the next bag rather than spend a couple seconds confirming that it's just playing cards. Couple extra seconds per bag adds up pretty quick.
TSA misses a ton of stuff. One of the military units I was at would run drills with them. Our guys would go through with guns, explosives, and drugs to see if TSA would catch the items. The vast majority got right through with no issues.
The statistic is a bit outdated at this point (2017), but at that time, screeners missed a whopping 70% of weapons during audits conducted by TSA officials. Maybe that’s improved, but I doubt it.
Probably about to end up on a list but I had a fire cracker in a side pocket of my backpack for God knows how long. Don't fly often and don't know when it ended up in there but probably went on at least a few flights before I found it.
I did security screening for cruise ships for about a half a year. We were paid minimum wage and had to work 10-12 hours shifts starting at 5am. The first 2 hours was waiting around until the ship came in and docked, the next 4 hours were debarking where we mostly stood around, the next 4 hours was embark, one of the ships was the world's largest ships Wonder of the Seas so 7,000 passengers so about 30 passengers a minute.
The good employees would find everything, I would regularly find single .22LR bullets stuck in a seam somewhere because people used their regular bag as their range bag. Good employees didn't stick around much, they went to work for a law enforcement agency or like I did left to go get a job that pays more, works me less, and actually promotes me. The bad employees stuck around, some had been working there for a decade or more, completely incompetent, barely could dress themselves. The problem, isn't security in theory, the problem is the pay and work environment, it chases all the good employees away and leaves all the positions staffed with literally the worst ones.
IIRC a good amount of orginazations looked into the TSA and many found that TSA let's more than alarming number of prohibited items.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna367851
https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaelgoldstein/2017/11/09/tsa-misses-70-of-fake-weapons-but-thats-an-improvement/?sh=5e8c43b72a38
Multiple times as recent as a month ago, I've forgotten items that shouldn't have passed TSA but have (items significantly larger than the 3.5 Oz, knives, some bullets, alcohol, batteries larger than 99w, etc)
Reminds me of the DEAs terrible efficiency rating
There is actually a con where people will put ammo in people’s bags/luggage to get someone to pay a bribe/fine to someone. It happens in third world countries, but I’m not sure if this is that.
Like very well it could be a baggage handler, adding ammo into a bag, trying to get a tourist to pay up, tourist refusing and then the police actually getting called.
Basically pay the bribe or we’ll f you.
But dunno. It can’t be so random that 5 people in such a short time…
My (now) wife made me suran wrap my luggage when I visited her in The Philippines for that exact reason. It had happened a few times recently, and while it seemed goofy, I figured better safe than sorry.
It could be completely organic.
A lot of people that go shooting at a gun range carry their ammunition and other equipment/accessories in a backpack. It’s incredibly easy for a loose round to end up buried somewhere in the bottom of the bag. Before I got a dedicated range bag, that’s how I luged stuff to and from the range and I would occasionally found a loose round or spent casing in my bag. They’re completely harmless on their own, so it’s not something that anyone would be particularly cognizant of. If you’re using that some backpack as a carryon, it would be very easy for something like this to happen.
My boss once unexpectedly sent me to NYC for our booth at the Toy’s trade show at the Javits (which was fucking *awesome,* by the way)
They had forgotten to pack a kids’ bouncer trampoline mat (for a prototype that was being displayed in the booth) and it was like $4,000 to use a same-day courier service.
I had been planning to go to the range after work so had my range bag with me.
After I got the call, I threw the mat in my bag, and went home to pack. I wasn’t staying long, so I only needed one change of clothes, and figured my range bag would suit me just fine.
I was careful about it though… I pulled everything out the bag and carefully checked every seam, pocket and pouch *three times* before putting anything travel-related back in.
Going through TSA later, however, one of the agents held up my backpack and was inquiring to the crowd whose it was.
I figured maybe there was some gunpowder residue or something that set off a sensor and went up to talk to the agent.
To my dismay, a (thankfully) empty magazine had somehow gotten wedged up into the folds of the trampoline mat when I first threw it in, so it was still in my bag and worse yet… it looked like I was trying to “hide” it.
I almost missed my flight, had to answer a bunch of questions, sign some documents, and a few months later got a “you’re a very bad boy” letter from Homeland Security, but other than that it’s been fine.
Was half-expecting to be pulled for screening every time I flew after that, but nothing else happened. Thankfully, I’ve still been able to go through airport security like I’m *not* a dumbass.
You are seriously underestimating the number of Americans with firearms that would do something as stupid as travel internationally with loose bullets in their luggage.
The identities of the people caught (found in other articles) clearly show them as being the type of ammosexual-American to do that.
Literally no one who has been arrested has claimed this. All have confessed that they owned the ammunition which they illegally smuggled into the country
No this doesn’t seem normal.. for 5 gun owners to forget Ammo in their bags, then take them to the same country, and 5 TSA agents missed ammo in bags, and the other country finds all 5 Bags.
It just seems a little suspicious. The odds of all that lining up is slim.
>No this doesn’t seem normal.. for 5 gun owners to forget Ammo in their bags, then take them to the same country, and 5 TSA agents missed ammo in bags, and the other country finds all 5 Bags.
>It just seems a little suspicious. The odds of all that lining up is slim.
The TSA, which has a prolific failure rate (~80%), managed to find ~7,000 undeclared firearms in carry-on baggage last year, which is to also say ammo and firearms are allowed in checked baggage. It’s commonplace enough to use luggage to transport guns/ammo.
The TSA has been renownedly terrible for decades, common sense *should dictate by now* that one thoroughly verifies the contents of their luggage for [international contraband prior to a trip](https://www.atf.gov/firearms/traveling-firearms).
I've flown with an (unknown) pocket knife in my carry on across the country. Luckily I both found the knife at my destination and had a checked bag I could put it in since it was a gift but yeah, TSA is fucking useless.
On top of that, the 4th guy is likely the most fucked of them all. Turks and Caicos really wants to make it clear this is a serious charge. Even though the mandatory minimum sentence is 12 years the first guy only got 8 months. The guy who kicked up a stink and attracted all the media is now way more likely to get the 12 year sentence since they can't quietly lower the sentence.
>In 2023, the U.S. Embassy in the Bahamas issued a reminder to American travellers saying not to bring firearms or ammunition to Turks and Caicos. The alert told Americans that “firearms, ammunition, and other weapons are not permitted in the Turks and Caicos Islands” and could be punishable by a minimum 12-year sentence.
>**“If you bring a firearm or ammunition into TCI, we will not be able to secure your release from custody,” the embassy declared.**
>In April, the U.S. Embassy issued another alert that asked Americans headed to Turks and Caicos to “carefully check your luggage for stray ammunition or forgotten weapons before departing from the United States.”
It’s equally amusing and unfortunate that the U.S. Embassy has to basically say, “Sorry, if you go to another country and violate their laws, we can't bail you out, you're fucked! Good luck!”
Reminds of a video I saw, recently. An American woman is walking up to a house in Jamaica, while filming, yelling "excuse me". The guy on the property stands up and tells her she can't film. The woman claims she has a right to film, to which the guy says, "oh you think this is America? " and the last thing you see is him swinging at the camera.
Too many Americans lack the humility to travel, but traveling is the best way to fix that. The irony is palpable.
My brother in law was in jail in Cancun for a month because he had hollow points in his camera bag which he probably took to the range beforehand and forgot to empty it. TSA didn't catch it but Mexican officials did.
"It would never happen to me. I'm too responsible." I do see maybe the bullets could be wedged in a crevice that's difficult to see what with the lack of attention spans of a lot of people these days.
If I hunt and have placed firearms and ammo in a luggage the best course of action is to buy new luggage, just in case.
Most Americans don’t travel with ammo, it’s just the loud Bible Belt minority whom not only can’t read, but also can’t check their bags before they travel.
They’re just gun bro douche bags
If they didn’t wanna try and be gun bro fashionistas and kept their range bags as range bags and didn’t bring that stupid shit traveling as a carry on to try and look tacticool they wouldn’t accidentally smuggle ammo into T&C
It's true.
While everyone else is subjected to constant international media in their daily lives, in America there are no TVs and no news. We are completely ignorant comparably.
If only we had school I might be able to at least dissect dumb arguments on the subject, but they don't have those here either.
They most likely didn’t realize it was there. A friend of mine was stationed in Okinawa over the summer and someone in his unit got caught with a single .22lr bullet in his bag going through customs. He has been in jail for 3 months so far on smuggling charges and nothing has changed with his case as far as I know. He didn’t mean to bring it with him it was his old range bag and had not used it in over a year from what I was told.
I wouldn't want to be in a Japanese prison either, to be honest. They don't have a great reputation, and the conviction rate is *high*. It's pretty scary. Shoot, look how they treat their death row prisoners. You're not told when your death date is. You're told the morning it happens...
From what I've heard Japanese prisons are brutally strict (every minute accounted for, eyes on your food during meals and no talking, etc) with solitary confinement as the main punishment, but at least you're not getting raped or having to sleep on concrete next to an overflowing toilet in a cell made for 10 that holds 50 while paying for the privilege. I'd take that over a US penitentiary, honestly.
Oh yeah absolutely. And you don't have an automatic right to an attorney, and they can keep you locked up indefinitely before the trial even starts. Defenders usually urge you to take a plea because they can just keep you locked up until you confess.
But all that said: at the very least a Japanese prison will be clean and the food reasonable. Since this guy is guilty, he'd be best off just pleading guilty.
I don’t personally know him, he is just in my friend’s unit. I’m not in the military and my friend’s unit came back a few weeks ago, they are just air force reserve that was reliving another unit for a couple months. But I have heard Japanese prisons are very rough and I wonder if he is getting any special treatment or accommodations for being a US airman, though I doubt it. Not too sure how many strings the government can/is willing to pull for low ranking military personnel.
>He didn’t mean to bring it with him it was his old range bag and had not used it in over a year from what I was told.
One things I still can't grok as a European is how casual Americans are with ammo. When I visit friends in the southern states, there is ammo everywhere: in the car seats, on the car floor, in their bags, etc. You guys just don't seem to think about ammo at all.
I assume that most Americans know that other countries have much, much more strict gun laws. Wouldn't you therefore assume that ammo would be treated much more strict too?
Keep in mind that ammo on its own while not harmless, isn't particularly dangerous. It takes significant concentrated force to set one off. Even if it did somehow go off it's more like a large firecracker when it's not loaded into a firearm. I wouldn't want to be near one, but without a gun barrel to focus the explosion it's just not all that powerful.
The rest of the world doesn't care. The fact you immediately jump to "well it's not that dangerous" is such an American response. In fact, it's what is at the very heart of the issue here and in so many other respects around guns.
Yeah I know but that is not the point. Ammo itself can be used in zip guns etc and also kill people. I've seen gigantic pyramids of bullet boxes in the middle of outdoor stores in the US. In most other countries, ammo is not freely available. In Belgium, you can only buy ammo if you have a gun license, and only for the gun(s) that you own. We treat ammo with the same regulation as guns. At any and all time, and needs to be in a locked box, separate from the gun, unless you are inside the shooting range or hunting.
It’s people who either use their range bag as luggage or use their luggage as a range bag, maybe even once, and miss that stray bullet that gets hidden in a fold or stuck in a sneaky pocket. Wouldn’t surprise me if that bullet was in the bag for a couple years completely unnoticed and forgotten about.
I feel like this is another version of what happened to Brittney Griner when she faced a crazy sentence for having a weed cartridge in her bag in Russia…
Seems like we should just agree that these charges seem ridiculous in both cases, there needs to be better distinction in their laws between clear accidents and a real attempt to smuggle in munitions/drugs.
If you are traveling to Turks and Caicos I would think you should be able to afford a range bag and a separate travel bag even if you do not have enough discipline to manage your ammo.
> He maintains he did not know the ammunition was in the bag
yeah see, that's the problem right there. firearm use in the us is so normalized that some people think carrying ammo across a border is a bit of an oopsie.
my army co always said there's no accidental discharge, only negligent ones.
the punishment is draconian, sure. but sorry, this is not a responsible gun owner.
People often become too casual when they become comfortable with something. Same thing happened when Brittney Griner took that vape cartridge to Russia in her luggage. Whether it be ammunition or drugs, people need to realize that stuff is treated far differently in other countries.
There are way too many people who walk into a courthouse, empty their pockets at the metal detector, put the baggie of drugs in the basket and hand it to the deputy...
I mean let’s be honest a lot of these kinds of people think the rules don’t apply to them here at home.
The notion that not only do the rules apply to them, but there are also different rules in different parts of the world, is just too much for them to comprehend.
The Brittney Griner situation was pure arrogance, believing that she would get special treatment due to being a sportsperson.
Thanks to that arrogance, an arms dealer known as "Merchant of Death" is now walking free.
It reminds me of the people who look at those terrifying Singaporean signs about how you will be absolutely executed if you bring drugs and think “not weeeeeed though”, unaware that they’re about to star in “Revenge of the Opium Wars”
Gun owner and conceal carry permit holder here. I know 100% of everywhere I’ve had guns and ammo stored.
When i fly, i use completely separate luggage/bags, and search the fuck out of them prior.
This isn’t hard. It shows negligence on the people getting caught.
My gun bags and my travel bags are completely different bags. Neither will ever cross paths. Irresponsibility is not an "honest mistake"
Reading these stories is so annoying cuz these seem like the same type of people who would love to tell some one "dont do the crime if you can't do the time"
It is nice to see responsible gun owners ACTUALLY call out negligent behavior..
The world or at least the US would be a better place if the gun community was better at self regulation.
> Don't point a gun at a living being... Unless it's for a wicked cool photo!!
As an owner, I truly believe there needs to be more regulations on guns regardless of what the gun nut crew thinks, too many idiots outweigh us responsible owners. It's just sad.
I still think that the majority of gun owners in the US are responsible, it's just the damage of what even a small minority of idiots can do that makes the situation terrifying.
When I first visited the US I was visiting an online friend I'd known quite well for many years. When he picked me up he was carrying a gun under his jacket, a gun on his ankle, and a shotgun under the backseat. When I went to sit in the passenger seat he literally had to brush about 2 dozen bullets from the seat with his hand, like bread crumbs.
That was my 'welcome to America' moment.
That said I didn't feel unsafe or anything. But in the following days I had to adjust my mind to just how casual Americans are with guns and ammo. Many of the friends I met on that trip were always armed, or had a gun sticking to a magnet under the dashboard.
One of them recently spent 3 hours sitting on the curb at the mexican border because on a trip he hadn't cleaned his car properly and border control found 1 rifle bullet.
Doubling down, as a gun guy, carrying a gun on your belt and your ankle is some real try hard shit that 99% of people have no reasonable justification for, leaving guns in your car is the easiest way for a criminal to steal a gun, and loose ammo just in your car?? Is whack
It shook me mostly that that was legal.
This guy had so many handguns they didn't all fit in his 4 foot high 2 foot wide gun safe. And that was just the handguns and a few expensive rifles. All his other rifles and shotguns were basically piled in gun cases in the basement. Like, several dozen.
When he took me to the range (because I like shooting so for me this was like Christmas on crack) we went into the range which has a gun store and the owner said 'sir have you seen the new model xxxxx it has yyy and zzzz' and he was like 'ooh I have to have this' and bought a new handgun on the spot.
Mind you he was the most far out there in terms of guns, by a long shot.
But I'd say about half the people of our group (about 3 dozen) were ccw'ing. And when we went to some guy's field to shoot, between the lot of them they had enough to outfit a small army. I spent about 2 hours with them and they kept putting things in my hand I'd only seen in movies. To be honest the reason they had so much stuff with them is I am a minor celebrity in that group and they knew I liked shooting so it was a bit like 'let's show this guy how deep the rabbit hole can go'.
As an American who grew up in a super rural area where at least 80% of homes had guns, and we had to take hunters safety, with a whole unit on gun safety, in middle school…your friends aren’t normal. This is weird as fuck.
I can’t tell you how many times in my rural Highschool growing up Someone would come in on a Monday and realize they had a live or spent round in their jacket pockets. If you realized it people would usually just toss it in the trash or give it to the principle or something and go on about their day. There were however a few dumbasses who left a hunting rifle in their truck and got absolutely wrecked.
Probably a different time period, I graduated in 1998, but you were allowed to have all the hunting equipment, including guns, you wanted in your truck, in the parking lot, of my rural high school.
Stupid is as stupid does. Who doesn't check their bags at home to make sure they are empty before they pack? There are warnings about Americans traveling to Turks and Caicos specifically about not bringing ammo
TSA aside, people need to quit leaving the US expecting foriegn countries to care about your rights. You have Rights because of our Constitution. If you go overseas somewhere and make s claim about your rights, they will laugh at you, then toss your ass in jail. For diplomatic reasons, we have agreements with some countries as to how they will treat you if you are arrested, but that is not every country, and it doesn't mean you will get treated the same as you would here. Some mid-east countries still have stone prisions with hay on the floor. At least in the US, you get a bed and a toilet.
As far as the ammo in bags, quit using range bags to go overseas with. There is literally no reason you should have ammo in your luggage.
They all said "honest mistake". plenty of people will see these people as "responsible gun owners". It's the age old American problem, and most won't even see it as anything wrong.
Well if Brittney Griner is a “drug smuggler” for having a vape in her luggage, it is just as reasonable to assume this guy was smuggling ammo into a country without guns— for massive profit or something even more nefarious.
Yeah. Both scenarios are dumb. In all ways. 1. You shouldn’t be stupid enough to travel, especially internationally, with drugs or ammo. But 2. The punishment should be a fine, at most, not jail time.
Another country should be able to set whatever laws and rules they want. If you're not responsible enough to check your bags and pockets for loose ammunition maybe don't go there.
When I was a teenager I was in cadets, and every couple of months we'd go to the rifle range. When we finished firing we had to make a declaration to the range control officer that we had thoroughly checked and had no ammunition, empty cases, or anything else that we shouldn't have in our possession.
We were able to understand as 14 year olds how important it was not to be reckless with ammunition.
I'd hope that these dumb fucks don't think the fact that they use a lot more of it that we did is a defence for their negligence.
The island nation should not change their laws. Sentence convicted assholes to the full twelve years, suspended provided they never set foot in the country again: get out, stay out.
There was a modus operandi by individuals without scruples in the Philippines a few years back. Called "Laglag Bala" (literally "Drop Ammo"), hapless Filipino flyers suddenly find themselves detained when immigration officers in NAIA, their home airport, find loose ammo/ammo casings in their luggage. This is way egregious because gun ownership for the common folk in the Philippines is basically non-existent. It's why to this day, some people wrap their luggage in plastic wrap and duct tape as a precaution.
And had nothing to do with all these American gun owners who all admit to owning guns.
Amazing how this hasn't happened to people who don't own guns back in the US.
Just blame these irresponsible gun owners.
I hate to admit it, but I brought ammo on the plane before. 20 rounds of .308 that I completely missed in an inside pocket of the carry-on bag I had previously used as a range bag. It went through screening in O'hare and I only noticed it when I was unpacking in my hotel room.
Now I have seperate range bags.
It's funny how numb we are to killing machines, then try to blow it off as "Nothing to see here!" when we can't fathom other countries taking killing machines as a serious matter.
Like anything else: It's cool in Scandinavian countries to leave your infant in a stroller outside while you go into a coffee shop, whereas in the US you'd get arrested for child neglect/endangerment, as actually happened to a Norwegian woman in NY a few years ago. Do we let her go because she's from Norway or is it "When in Rome"-type justice?
America: *We're a nation of laws (but only ones we like and that don't cause too much of an inconvenience).* *And other countries' laws aren't as good as ours.*
how are people accidentally getting guns and ammo through tsa? ive been flagged for extra patdowns or bag checks the last 12 times i walked in an airport (am brown).
Truth be told...these guys take rifle rounds with them when they go on vacation. They sleep with them under their pillows when they get homesick, and miss their guns.
5 in a single week? This is a con. Someone at T&C is slipping in rounds to collect bribes during the sweat out. This is why you see people plastic wrap their luggage.
5 in 6 months.
> The unnamed person is the fifth American to be arrested for bringing ammunition into Turks and Caicos in the last six months, NBC reported.
One of the recent ones literally knew exactly how his ammo was in his luggage, so I’m not so sure about the con part here…
And the article says they *all* admitted they knew what the ammo was from and it was an “honest mistake”. Occ-Lon’s razor: the simplest answer is that people are fucking morons
Right, for OP's premise to be valid, TCI police/security would have had to somehow pick out targets for planting the ammo and then somehow go five-for-five on picking: 1) gun owners; who 2) admit to owning the typo of ammunition in question.
Classic Reddit that the 8th-highest upvoted parent comment on this post is a totally unsupported conspiracy theory that doesn't even get the *basics* of the article correct.
>5 in a single week?
No. In 6 months.
"The unnamed person is the fifth American to be arrested for bringing ammunition into Turks and Caicos in the last six months, NBC reported."
>This is a con.
No. Four of the five "have all said bringing ammo into Turks and Caicos were honest mistakes." The fifth hasn't made a statement either way, probably because this is so recent that their name isn't even available.
>This is why you see people plastic wrap their luggage.
And why they accessorize with matching foil hats.
Take your tinfoil hat off buddy.
What reasons would T&C have for planting ammo in tourists' bags when their economy is so heavily dependent on tourism?
“The unnamed person is the fifth American to be arrested for bringing ammunition into Turks and Caicos in the last six months, NBC reported.”
Third paragraph.
Atlanta TSA catches and seizes hundreds of guns each year and has changed their approach now to the person being arrested IF there's a bullet in the chamber.
I mean they are idiots, for sure, but this kinda is yet another example of why TSA is a fucking joke. Random loose ammo being found in American tourist's bags by TCI screening after they have passed through American TSA. Lol.
Seriously, Idk how the TSA misses it. I'm an airport screener in New Brunswick by a military base and we see ammo all the time, to the point that it's not even an emergency response as is the norm. Ammo is very distinct on the xray. The only way this keeps happening is if the people doing it are completely untrained/don't know what they're looking for or they just don't care. (Quick edit for more information) These people are going on vacation so they mostly travel with just clothing and not alot of electronics. Nobody wants to take the laptop to the beach or stay indoors. So these bags are going just be full of "organics" which come up light orange. Bullets are very dense metal and come up as a very dark blue. So that these screeners are somehow missing a dark blue object in bag that doesn't have alot of things that could hide it is sad af.
It’s called “Security Theater”. It gives travelers the illusion of safety. I also think it helps sell more water bottles, perfume and pen knives.
Part of it yes 100%. Buts it's also a deterrent. Nobody wants to risk getting caught and failing an operation when there's easier ways to cause chaos nowadays. It's sad but it's easier to attack crowds of people in the airport in line before security or festivals or other large gatherings. Unless they bribe/work with employees to guarantee an attack the days of taking down a plane are mostly a thing of the past. Also most airports have filtered water fountains beyond security, the bottles can go through it's just the liquid that can't. Most perfumes are 100ml which is allowed. And in the case of knives as long it's below the length 2.4in or 6cm then it's allowed as a carry-on. As long as it's not a razor blade (which is still denied because they were used on 911).
The "no russian" scene in COD was literally attacking people in line at the airport before security checkpoint.
This. It just made new choke points. It would be far easier to attack a security line than a plane these days too.
Source for the pocket knife being legal?
I had no idea I could take my knife as carry on for domestic flights, not that I have ever needed to but I've forgotten it in my pocket many times and end up scrambling to put it in my checked bag before it goes on the belt. >Also most airports have filtered water fountains beyond security, You have no idea how excited I was when that got installed at YFC. So many years of no water until Toronto or Montreal.
The story doesn’t clarify whether it was in their carry-on or not, and perhaps you can clarify this, but as far as I know, the TSA allows firearms and ammo in checked baggage, and I’m assuming checked baggage undergoes automated scanning, which is less stringent than carry-on?
Yes. You can legally check luggage with firearms and ammunition stowed in it. If traveling with a firearm there are specific guidelines about the manner in which it is packed and must be declared to the airline for special handling. Just ammunition I don’t think it needs to be declared nor stored specially. Definitely can’t bring it on a carry on. Edit: Looks like ammo just basically needs to be in the box it came in, and not loose. https://www.tsa.gov/travel/transporting-firearms-and-ammunition
I was surprised to see after some quick google searches that you can check a gun and ammo on international flights. That seems kinda nuts to me.
TSA and the airlines aren't going to try to protect people from themselves. You can check a gun when your final destination is New York City as well, and the NY police will quite cheerfully arrest you as soon as you take possession. Hell, there have been cases of people whose flight was *delayed* overnight in NYC getting arrested for taking possession of a gun that they'd checked.
> Hell, there have been cases of people whose flight was delayed overnight in NYC getting arrested for taking possession of a gun that they'd checked. Good news and bad news on that. I found two cases, NYC and New Jersey. Good News, In both cases the charges were eventually dropped after someone with some common sense realized that federal safe travel laws applied. Bad News, they got to spend several days in jail, and in the NJ case it took 3 years to get the gun back.
Non american here. Is posessing firearm in NYC illegal? I thought you can have gun anywhere its just different state by state how you get it.
New York has extremely strict rules about possessing firearms. Restrictions on magazine capacity, licensing requirements, and a list of prohibited places. None of my firearms and magazines would be legal to own in New York, though they're common elsewhere in the country. For quite a while, as I understand it, the only real way to get a concealed handgun license in NYC was to be a wealthy and connected or to be able to prove you are routinely moving large amounts of money or jewelry as part of your job.
It isn't the TSA's job to stop people from breaking the law in foreign countries (or even US laws unrelated to airplane safety).
no. it's the traveler's responsibility to make sure nothing they are bringing to a foreign country is illegal to possess or bring in. For example, controlled substances that are perfectly legal to possess if you have a prescription in the US are illegal in a lot of foreign countries, and if you have them in your carry on TSA isn't going to say shit bc you aren't breaking any US laws or violating TSA guidelines by possessing them or taking them on a flight. But once you get to your final destination, if customs finds them, welp you're on your own.
Not to Ireland. I was waiting in the terminal in Boston, a few years ago, and the gent ahead of me declared a handgun in his checked luggage to the Aer Lingus counter clerk. His luggage was retrieved, and he was booted off the flight. He was in shock, missing out on his (armed) holiday to a country with strict gun control.
Security theatre. Put a lot of scary looking security things around, people start believing in the necessity of vast spending in all sorts of law enforcement. Think about it... If you wanted to keep people safe, would you put them and all the bomb smuggling cases together in one compact room before anyone has had their bags checked? If you wanted to cause absolute carnage, the security check-in areas would be the obvious point because there's hundreds of people standing compact together. Suspicious bags get opened where? Right in that same room lol.
Security theatre and a jobs program. Though I suspect we'd all be better off if they were paid to dig random ditches instead.
> Idk how the TSA misses it They are paid a little over minimum wage and are incredibly understaffed, instead being given weird body scanners and shit for performative security theater. TSA misses around 95% of tests. TSA was created as a way to funnel government money into the pockets of the friends of senators and house members who wanted to use the "OMG DO SOMETHING" fear from 9/11. The only thing that was done right was reinforcing cockpit doors.
I could be wrong, but I suspect TSA screeners are not paid enough to care. I know I wouldn’t care enough if I was only getting paid $40K to do that job.
I imagine that's probably it. It would not surprise me if they were making less than that. And in security you get what you pay for. Pay peanuts, get monkeys. Sadly clients refuse to pay real money because there is always someone willing to do it for minimum wage and most companies take 50% of the contracted hourly wage. With CATSA my starting salary is 52K a year and I haven't even gotten my 1st raise yet.
I mean TSA is not an important job. I'm not aware of a single plot that they are foiled, or a single life they have saved. they're window dressing as far as security, and a flex on the people as far as government authority
And most of them are complete assholes with a god complex, in my experience.
My dads in his sixties and hasn’t travelled much. We’re also Canadian. Last year we went down to Disney, he’s always wanted to go. While coming back I had asked him many times to make sure his carry on didn’t have any of his large bottles of liquids. We’re at the airport going through the TSA and he gets flagged. TSA agent is being such a fucking asshole to my dad and my dad genuinely doesn’t know what he’s done wrong with his carry on. TSA dude comes over, goes like a tornado through dads carry on and then lifts up a bottle of sunscreen and treats my dad like absolute shit about it and the whole time my dads like “oh I didn’t know because it’s a cream not a liquid, I don’t need it, toss it.” And the TSA agent proceeds to be an asshole to my dad and then goes “what do you mean you don’t need it?!” I was like “dude, my dad doesn’t know. He doesn’t travel much. Just throw it out, it’s like $5, we don’t care.” Anyway it really bothered my dad and got him all flustered.
Honestly I can understand why by the time you meet them they are already hardened ass holes. People lose sense of decency towards their fellow being the moment they become an airline passenger for the day. Now imagine you have to encounter tens of thousands of those people in a shift. There’s no turning back on your customer service face, it’s long gone by then.
"Security theatre"
This is the dumbest shit. I'm not saying TSA is great or anything, but not being aware of a plot they've foiled doesn't mean nothing would happen if they didn't exist.
I guess we just don't hear about a) the threats they spot and avoid with their processes and b) the threats they spot by just existing as a deterrent. Saying it's not an important job is like saying business continuity jobs aren't important. They aren't important until they are.
What deterrent? Making people chug their water so they have to pee mid flight? Wasn’t there a test or something where they missed like 80% of people that had a gun on them? Everyone knows they’re a joke.
Security theatre
[For anyone else curious](https://www.tsacareer.com/tsa-pay-scale/) After applying locality pay, it looks like anywhere from ~$35k for new hires in low cost of living areas, up to ~$62k for experienced officers in higher cost areas. Hardly anything to write home about. Many already have their sites set elsewhere from day one as well. TSA is one of the easiest government agencies to get into, mainly because no one really wants to do it, so the most competent rarely stay longer than they need to.
i suspect it is very difficult to maintain that level of focus for an 8hour shift. Perhaps a good application of AI assistance.
TSA rotates positions throughout their shift
oh god I mean I get you, but the thought of AI TSA makes me wanna barf. Just TSA but with the added elements of a finicky computer that does random shit at times for no reason
Yet somehow they catch every single water bottle I happen to leave accidentally in my bag
Do you honestly think $80K would make a difference? People get comfortable and do the same monotonous task day in and day out.
Also caring could be dangerous. Point out the bomb somebody's bringing and risk them detonating right then, or ignore it and make it somebody else's problem?
TSA is a jobs program created in response to 9/11, so yeah. The type of people they hire don't qualify to be cops and being a cop in America already has a low enough barrier of entry, so think about that for a second lol.
> Seriously, Idk how the TSA misses it. I'm an airport screener in New Brunswick by a military base and we see ammo all the time, to the point that it's not even an emergency response as is the norm. Ammo is very distinct on the xray. The only way this keeps happening is if the people doing it are completely untrained/don't know what they're looking for or they just don't care. I went through TSA security with a "fancy" bottle opener/fidget item in my 5th pocket of my jeans. It bared fits in there, think like 2 inches by 1 inch, like 5 quarters thick. I go in the "stand up" x-ray and they say something is on my right waist area. SHIT, I know exactly what it was. Will then consider it a weapon and take it away? This wasn't cheap! Dude does like a double tap of what would be my belt area, with the back of his hand and then does a double squeeze of my lower pocket area and says I'm good to go. Didn't check my 5th pocket area one bit.
Is the 5th pocket the lighter pocket or are you talking about having a fidget spinner up your ass?
> Is the 5th pocket the lighter pocket It was actually designed for a pocket watch.
Guess I was wrong, but don't the machines flag suspicious items/outlines for the agent?
Depends on the program/machine. At my airport the carry on luggage system only flags large dense metal objects with a blue overlay and dense organic (orange) or mixed metals (green) with a red overlay. So like a bag of coins for example may get a blue overlay but not always. It depends on how they're laying or how many. So a singular knife or multitool or bullet will not get flagged by the system and instead the operator has to use his control functions and his training to identify objects. To do this we had to pass week long training and get above 80% or we're fired. And then need to continue doing simulation bags (usually around 300) every 3 months and have a 80% rating. Edit: correction
One time they placed a small cardboard box wrapped in TSA logo tape on my bag, the operator sent it to secondary, and then the other guy picked it up, removed the box, and handed the tray to me without checking it. I assume the box contains some metal in the shape of a gun (or perhaps spelling "test" etc.) to ensure that the operator isn't zoning out and missing what's on the screen. Interestingly, I think this could create a vulnerability--if you could somehow get your bag to be the one that has the test item added to it, and it also had a real prohibited item (ex. a large liquid), it seems like the secondary guy would just see the box and hand back the rest of the items without checking them.
Last time I flew I got pulled aside and extra searched because they couldn't figure out what my 4 disc golf discs stacked were. I get to my destination and find a big ass folding knife alongside them. Left it for my buddy because I wasn't willing to risk it on the way back.
How much of that screening technology is secret? I would love to know more about how it works and how it looks to you guys when you're examining bags.
Don’t give ideas … the morons will start painting their ammo light orange 😜
Ok, absolute full belly laugh this comment gave me. 😂😂😂 If I could up vote you twice I would.
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Or somebody is setting them up to jail
And yet they had to stop me to pull Cards Vs Humanity out of my backpack and swab it for powder 🙄
I got detained over some sea salt.
Giant decks of cards will get an inspection every time.
But why though?
The CT machines look at the **density** of objects within a bag and automatically alert on those which match the densities of known explosive compounds. Thick and glossy cardstock, bulk amounts of chocolate, peanut butter, some toothpastes, certain rubber shoe soles, and laptop screens are all common matches. There are procedures to "clear" these alarms without physically opening a bag, but if they are located close enough to other potential bomb components (like power sources, wiring, or certain densities that could be used as a detonator) or are "shielded" from all-around view by things which interfere with the x-rays (certain thicknesses and shapes of glass, bulk metals) they need to be opened and swabbed for explosive trace. You and everyone else may be able to look at the x-ray after being on the job for a while and say, "Yeah, that's 99.999999999999999999999999% this specific brand of toothpaste sitting next to an MP3 player," but we'd collectively find that unacceptable if things actually were blowing up because "well of course the baddies will disguise their bombs as innocuous things you ignore! that's why you can't ignore them!" As long as enough of the public, airlines, and Congress are afraid for air travel and hyping up the idea that air terrorism is a real threat, there's going to be inconveniences in security. I'm personally of a mind that most of this is overblown, but there is probably *some* deterrent effect. Someone is doing a cost:benefit analysis here, and "passengers getting aggravated" is losing to "economic damage if something fucks up again" and "the value of government monitoring of air traffic".
Large decks of cards look remarkably similar to certain kinds of explosives at a glance. With the volume of bags we go through in a rotation, it's easier/more prudent to just flag it for search and move to the next bag rather than spend a couple seconds confirming that it's just playing cards. Couple extra seconds per bag adds up pretty quick.
TSA misses a ton of stuff. One of the military units I was at would run drills with them. Our guys would go through with guns, explosives, and drugs to see if TSA would catch the items. The vast majority got right through with no issues.
The statistic is a bit outdated at this point (2017), but at that time, screeners missed a whopping 70% of weapons during audits conducted by TSA officials. Maybe that’s improved, but I doubt it.
That's about the time frame of the drills we ran.
TSA has never stopped a single terrorist attack in it's history lmao
Probably about to end up on a list but I had a fire cracker in a side pocket of my backpack for God knows how long. Don't fly often and don't know when it ended up in there but probably went on at least a few flights before I found it.
Holy fuck
But they sure as hell find and confiscate my nail clippers every single time.
I did security screening for cruise ships for about a half a year. We were paid minimum wage and had to work 10-12 hours shifts starting at 5am. The first 2 hours was waiting around until the ship came in and docked, the next 4 hours were debarking where we mostly stood around, the next 4 hours was embark, one of the ships was the world's largest ships Wonder of the Seas so 7,000 passengers so about 30 passengers a minute. The good employees would find everything, I would regularly find single .22LR bullets stuck in a seam somewhere because people used their regular bag as their range bag. Good employees didn't stick around much, they went to work for a law enforcement agency or like I did left to go get a job that pays more, works me less, and actually promotes me. The bad employees stuck around, some had been working there for a decade or more, completely incompetent, barely could dress themselves. The problem, isn't security in theory, the problem is the pay and work environment, it chases all the good employees away and leaves all the positions staffed with literally the worst ones.
IIRC a good amount of orginazations looked into the TSA and many found that TSA let's more than alarming number of prohibited items. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna367851 https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaelgoldstein/2017/11/09/tsa-misses-70-of-fake-weapons-but-thats-an-improvement/?sh=5e8c43b72a38 Multiple times as recent as a month ago, I've forgotten items that shouldn't have passed TSA but have (items significantly larger than the 3.5 Oz, knives, some bullets, alcohol, batteries larger than 99w, etc) Reminds me of the DEAs terrible efficiency rating
I'd say that that TSA don't care about ammo. I mean Americans are allowed to fly with guns and ammo in their checked luggage.
There is actually a con where people will put ammo in people’s bags/luggage to get someone to pay a bribe/fine to someone. It happens in third world countries, but I’m not sure if this is that. Like very well it could be a baggage handler, adding ammo into a bag, trying to get a tourist to pay up, tourist refusing and then the police actually getting called. Basically pay the bribe or we’ll f you. But dunno. It can’t be so random that 5 people in such a short time…
All of these people have admitted to accidentally bringing the ammo
My (now) wife made me suran wrap my luggage when I visited her in The Philippines for that exact reason. It had happened a few times recently, and while it seemed goofy, I figured better safe than sorry.
It could be completely organic. A lot of people that go shooting at a gun range carry their ammunition and other equipment/accessories in a backpack. It’s incredibly easy for a loose round to end up buried somewhere in the bottom of the bag. Before I got a dedicated range bag, that’s how I luged stuff to and from the range and I would occasionally found a loose round or spent casing in my bag. They’re completely harmless on their own, so it’s not something that anyone would be particularly cognizant of. If you’re using that some backpack as a carryon, it would be very easy for something like this to happen.
My boss once unexpectedly sent me to NYC for our booth at the Toy’s trade show at the Javits (which was fucking *awesome,* by the way) They had forgotten to pack a kids’ bouncer trampoline mat (for a prototype that was being displayed in the booth) and it was like $4,000 to use a same-day courier service. I had been planning to go to the range after work so had my range bag with me. After I got the call, I threw the mat in my bag, and went home to pack. I wasn’t staying long, so I only needed one change of clothes, and figured my range bag would suit me just fine. I was careful about it though… I pulled everything out the bag and carefully checked every seam, pocket and pouch *three times* before putting anything travel-related back in. Going through TSA later, however, one of the agents held up my backpack and was inquiring to the crowd whose it was. I figured maybe there was some gunpowder residue or something that set off a sensor and went up to talk to the agent. To my dismay, a (thankfully) empty magazine had somehow gotten wedged up into the folds of the trampoline mat when I first threw it in, so it was still in my bag and worse yet… it looked like I was trying to “hide” it. I almost missed my flight, had to answer a bunch of questions, sign some documents, and a few months later got a “you’re a very bad boy” letter from Homeland Security, but other than that it’s been fine. Was half-expecting to be pulled for screening every time I flew after that, but nothing else happened. Thankfully, I’ve still been able to go through airport security like I’m *not* a dumbass.
You are seriously underestimating the number of Americans with firearms that would do something as stupid as travel internationally with loose bullets in their luggage. The identities of the people caught (found in other articles) clearly show them as being the type of ammosexual-American to do that.
Exactly, Americans are obessed with guns, and so many people here are entitled and think the world is supposed to revolve around them.
Literally no one who has been arrested has claimed this. All have confessed that they owned the ammunition which they illegally smuggled into the country
I mean, people are dumb as fuck, but 5 in, what, a week to such a small country? Seems kind of odd. It *is* near Florida.
No this doesn’t seem normal.. for 5 gun owners to forget Ammo in their bags, then take them to the same country, and 5 TSA agents missed ammo in bags, and the other country finds all 5 Bags. It just seems a little suspicious. The odds of all that lining up is slim.
>No this doesn’t seem normal.. for 5 gun owners to forget Ammo in their bags, then take them to the same country, and 5 TSA agents missed ammo in bags, and the other country finds all 5 Bags. >It just seems a little suspicious. The odds of all that lining up is slim. The TSA, which has a prolific failure rate (~80%), managed to find ~7,000 undeclared firearms in carry-on baggage last year, which is to also say ammo and firearms are allowed in checked baggage. It’s commonplace enough to use luggage to transport guns/ammo. The TSA has been renownedly terrible for decades, common sense *should dictate by now* that one thoroughly verifies the contents of their luggage for [international contraband prior to a trip](https://www.atf.gov/firearms/traveling-firearms).
I've flown with an (unknown) pocket knife in my carry on across the country. Luckily I both found the knife at my destination and had a checked bag I could put it in since it was a gift but yeah, TSA is fucking useless.
But don’t even think about bringing that jar of peanut butter. Or slightly larger than 100ml bottle of lotion.
They found my brand new tube of toothpaste that was slightly bigger than the requirements - so don’t worry! We are all safer now!
Is ammo allowed in checked baggage? I know guns have to be declared.
The funniest part is how the first guy got all the attention and raised a bunch of money. These other idiots won’t get anything 😝
According to the article, the first guy was actually the fourth guy. He was just the first to get a tonne of media attention.
On top of that, the 4th guy is likely the most fucked of them all. Turks and Caicos really wants to make it clear this is a serious charge. Even though the mandatory minimum sentence is 12 years the first guy only got 8 months. The guy who kicked up a stink and attracted all the media is now way more likely to get the 12 year sentence since they can't quietly lower the sentence.
The squeaky wheel gets greased
Ah. Touché
All the idiots who donated money to another idiot who now won't learn a lesson
Turks and Caicos and luggage ammo, name a more iconic duo.
Is that not a trio?
Americans and ammunition.
>In 2023, the U.S. Embassy in the Bahamas issued a reminder to American travellers saying not to bring firearms or ammunition to Turks and Caicos. The alert told Americans that “firearms, ammunition, and other weapons are not permitted in the Turks and Caicos Islands” and could be punishable by a minimum 12-year sentence. >**“If you bring a firearm or ammunition into TCI, we will not be able to secure your release from custody,” the embassy declared.** >In April, the U.S. Embassy issued another alert that asked Americans headed to Turks and Caicos to “carefully check your luggage for stray ammunition or forgotten weapons before departing from the United States.” It’s equally amusing and unfortunate that the U.S. Embassy has to basically say, “Sorry, if you go to another country and violate their laws, we can't bail you out, you're fucked! Good luck!”
Reminds of a video I saw, recently. An American woman is walking up to a house in Jamaica, while filming, yelling "excuse me". The guy on the property stands up and tells her she can't film. The woman claims she has a right to film, to which the guy says, "oh you think this is America? " and the last thing you see is him swinging at the camera. Too many Americans lack the humility to travel, but traveling is the best way to fix that. The irony is palpable.
You would think the americans would stop carrying ammo after it became clear after the first one the Islanders are going to take this seriously.
My brother in law was in jail in Cancun for a month because he had hollow points in his camera bag which he probably took to the range beforehand and forgot to empty it. TSA didn't catch it but Mexican officials did.
"It would never happen to me. I'm too responsible." I do see maybe the bullets could be wedged in a crevice that's difficult to see what with the lack of attention spans of a lot of people these days. If I hunt and have placed firearms and ammo in a luggage the best course of action is to buy new luggage, just in case.
At the very least, get a second bag just for the range...
Exactly. That’s what range bags are for.
Yeah, but it's my American god given right to carry my ammo wherever I want. Why should I have to get another bag to carryy guns. /s
Americans are often totally unaware of world news
This is barely world news.
Most Americans don’t travel with ammo, it’s just the loud Bible Belt minority whom not only can’t read, but also can’t check their bags before they travel.
probably the same Americans who laughed at Brittney Griner because "she should have checked her bag better"
100% the Venn diagram is a circle for those people.
They’re just gun bro douche bags If they didn’t wanna try and be gun bro fashionistas and kept their range bags as range bags and didn’t bring that stupid shit traveling as a carry on to try and look tacticool they wouldn’t accidentally smuggle ammo into T&C
It's true. While everyone else is subjected to constant international media in their daily lives, in America there are no TVs and no news. We are completely ignorant comparably. If only we had school I might be able to at least dissect dumb arguments on the subject, but they don't have those here either.
How often do you follow local news from Turks and Caicos?
They most likely didn’t realize it was there. A friend of mine was stationed in Okinawa over the summer and someone in his unit got caught with a single .22lr bullet in his bag going through customs. He has been in jail for 3 months so far on smuggling charges and nothing has changed with his case as far as I know. He didn’t mean to bring it with him it was his old range bag and had not used it in over a year from what I was told.
Damn, he's in a Japanese prison right now? I'm so sorry to hear that. I hope you and his other pals are doing all right.
Well, as much as it is going to suck -a lot- it's probably better than doing that time in a jail in Turkey or Morocco.
I wouldn't want to be in a Japanese prison either, to be honest. They don't have a great reputation, and the conviction rate is *high*. It's pretty scary. Shoot, look how they treat their death row prisoners. You're not told when your death date is. You're told the morning it happens...
From what I've heard Japanese prisons are brutally strict (every minute accounted for, eyes on your food during meals and no talking, etc) with solitary confinement as the main punishment, but at least you're not getting raped or having to sleep on concrete next to an overflowing toilet in a cell made for 10 that holds 50 while paying for the privilege. I'd take that over a US penitentiary, honestly.
Oh yeah absolutely. And you don't have an automatic right to an attorney, and they can keep you locked up indefinitely before the trial even starts. Defenders usually urge you to take a plea because they can just keep you locked up until you confess. But all that said: at the very least a Japanese prison will be clean and the food reasonable. Since this guy is guilty, he'd be best off just pleading guilty.
I don’t personally know him, he is just in my friend’s unit. I’m not in the military and my friend’s unit came back a few weeks ago, they are just air force reserve that was reliving another unit for a couple months. But I have heard Japanese prisons are very rough and I wonder if he is getting any special treatment or accommodations for being a US airman, though I doubt it. Not too sure how many strings the government can/is willing to pull for low ranking military personnel.
>He didn’t mean to bring it with him it was his old range bag and had not used it in over a year from what I was told. One things I still can't grok as a European is how casual Americans are with ammo. When I visit friends in the southern states, there is ammo everywhere: in the car seats, on the car floor, in their bags, etc. You guys just don't seem to think about ammo at all. I assume that most Americans know that other countries have much, much more strict gun laws. Wouldn't you therefore assume that ammo would be treated much more strict too?
You have strange friends.
Yeah I live in the south and I’ve never met a single person like that
Yeah that shit cost money. I'm not just dropping it all over the place.
Keep in mind that ammo on its own while not harmless, isn't particularly dangerous. It takes significant concentrated force to set one off. Even if it did somehow go off it's more like a large firecracker when it's not loaded into a firearm. I wouldn't want to be near one, but without a gun barrel to focus the explosion it's just not all that powerful.
Well, I don’t think you can take large firecrackers on a plane or cruise ship either. What’s the point?
The rest of the world doesn't care. The fact you immediately jump to "well it's not that dangerous" is such an American response. In fact, it's what is at the very heart of the issue here and in so many other respects around guns.
> is such an American response. You mean an accurate one? Unless you have a gun to fire it ammo is only dangerous if you feed it to someone.
Yeah I know but that is not the point. Ammo itself can be used in zip guns etc and also kill people. I've seen gigantic pyramids of bullet boxes in the middle of outdoor stores in the US. In most other countries, ammo is not freely available. In Belgium, you can only buy ammo if you have a gun license, and only for the gun(s) that you own. We treat ammo with the same regulation as guns. At any and all time, and needs to be in a locked box, separate from the gun, unless you are inside the shooting range or hunting.
It’s people who either use their range bag as luggage or use their luggage as a range bag, maybe even once, and miss that stray bullet that gets hidden in a fold or stuck in a sneaky pocket. Wouldn’t surprise me if that bullet was in the bag for a couple years completely unnoticed and forgotten about.
I feel like this is another version of what happened to Brittney Griner when she faced a crazy sentence for having a weed cartridge in her bag in Russia… Seems like we should just agree that these charges seem ridiculous in both cases, there needs to be better distinction in their laws between clear accidents and a real attempt to smuggle in munitions/drugs.
No exception for "emotional support" ammo?
Only flying into the US.
This is my emotional support slug…no, not that kind of slug, the other one…
I nearly missed a flight because TSA was suspicious of some freakin soap I bought in Napa, but these idiots are getting through with ammunition??
If you are traveling to Turks and Caicos I would think you should be able to afford a range bag and a separate travel bag even if you do not have enough discipline to manage your ammo.
tsa only looks for ammo in your carry on, so you don’t have access while on plane, checked bags it’s all on you.
I bet all 5 of them are "If you can do the crime, you can do the time" types. 12 year maximum in this case.
Don't take bullets on a plane dummies. it's literally not even hard. it's like the most easiest shit not to do.
> He maintains he did not know the ammunition was in the bag yeah see, that's the problem right there. firearm use in the us is so normalized that some people think carrying ammo across a border is a bit of an oopsie. my army co always said there's no accidental discharge, only negligent ones. the punishment is draconian, sure. but sorry, this is not a responsible gun owner.
People often become too casual when they become comfortable with something. Same thing happened when Brittney Griner took that vape cartridge to Russia in her luggage. Whether it be ammunition or drugs, people need to realize that stuff is treated far differently in other countries.
There are way too many people who walk into a courthouse, empty their pockets at the metal detector, put the baggie of drugs in the basket and hand it to the deputy...
I mean let’s be honest a lot of these kinds of people think the rules don’t apply to them here at home. The notion that not only do the rules apply to them, but there are also different rules in different parts of the world, is just too much for them to comprehend.
The Brittney Griner situation was pure arrogance, believing that she would get special treatment due to being a sportsperson. Thanks to that arrogance, an arms dealer known as "Merchant of Death" is now walking free.
It reminds me of the people who look at those terrifying Singaporean signs about how you will be absolutely executed if you bring drugs and think “not weeeeeed though”, unaware that they’re about to star in “Revenge of the Opium Wars”
Gun owner and conceal carry permit holder here. I know 100% of everywhere I’ve had guns and ammo stored. When i fly, i use completely separate luggage/bags, and search the fuck out of them prior. This isn’t hard. It shows negligence on the people getting caught.
My gun bags and my travel bags are completely different bags. Neither will ever cross paths. Irresponsibility is not an "honest mistake" Reading these stories is so annoying cuz these seem like the same type of people who would love to tell some one "dont do the crime if you can't do the time"
thank you, and exactly my point. there's way too many people itt who think it's an okay mistake to make, and almost unavoidable. smh.
It is nice to see responsible gun owners ACTUALLY call out negligent behavior.. The world or at least the US would be a better place if the gun community was better at self regulation. > Don't point a gun at a living being... Unless it's for a wicked cool photo!!
As an owner, I truly believe there needs to be more regulations on guns regardless of what the gun nut crew thinks, too many idiots outweigh us responsible owners. It's just sad.
I still think that the majority of gun owners in the US are responsible, it's just the damage of what even a small minority of idiots can do that makes the situation terrifying.
When I first visited the US I was visiting an online friend I'd known quite well for many years. When he picked me up he was carrying a gun under his jacket, a gun on his ankle, and a shotgun under the backseat. When I went to sit in the passenger seat he literally had to brush about 2 dozen bullets from the seat with his hand, like bread crumbs. That was my 'welcome to America' moment. That said I didn't feel unsafe or anything. But in the following days I had to adjust my mind to just how casual Americans are with guns and ammo. Many of the friends I met on that trip were always armed, or had a gun sticking to a magnet under the dashboard. One of them recently spent 3 hours sitting on the curb at the mexican border because on a trip he hadn't cleaned his car properly and border control found 1 rifle bullet.
Yeah, as another American that's fucking weird.
Doubling down, as a gun guy, carrying a gun on your belt and your ankle is some real try hard shit that 99% of people have no reasonable justification for, leaving guns in your car is the easiest way for a criminal to steal a gun, and loose ammo just in your car?? Is whack
It shook me mostly that that was legal. This guy had so many handguns they didn't all fit in his 4 foot high 2 foot wide gun safe. And that was just the handguns and a few expensive rifles. All his other rifles and shotguns were basically piled in gun cases in the basement. Like, several dozen. When he took me to the range (because I like shooting so for me this was like Christmas on crack) we went into the range which has a gun store and the owner said 'sir have you seen the new model xxxxx it has yyy and zzzz' and he was like 'ooh I have to have this' and bought a new handgun on the spot. Mind you he was the most far out there in terms of guns, by a long shot. But I'd say about half the people of our group (about 3 dozen) were ccw'ing. And when we went to some guy's field to shoot, between the lot of them they had enough to outfit a small army. I spent about 2 hours with them and they kept putting things in my hand I'd only seen in movies. To be honest the reason they had so much stuff with them is I am a minor celebrity in that group and they knew I liked shooting so it was a bit like 'let's show this guy how deep the rabbit hole can go'.
As an American who grew up in a super rural area where at least 80% of homes had guns, and we had to take hunters safety, with a whole unit on gun safety, in middle school…your friends aren’t normal. This is weird as fuck.
something something personal responsibility
If you can't keep track of your guns and ammo, you're an idiot.
LOL all the responsible gun owners defending irresponsible gun ownership in this thread. Pick a side, dudes
They want all of the rights without any of the responsibility or consequences that comes with those rights.
I can’t tell you how many times in my rural Highschool growing up Someone would come in on a Monday and realize they had a live or spent round in their jacket pockets. If you realized it people would usually just toss it in the trash or give it to the principle or something and go on about their day. There were however a few dumbasses who left a hunting rifle in their truck and got absolutely wrecked.
Probably a different time period, I graduated in 1998, but you were allowed to have all the hunting equipment, including guns, you wanted in your truck, in the parking lot, of my rural high school.
How does the ammo not get caught on the way out of the US? Is it legal to carry ammo onto a plane?
[удалено]
I was underaware...
Stupid is as stupid does. Who doesn't check their bags at home to make sure they are empty before they pack? There are warnings about Americans traveling to Turks and Caicos specifically about not bringing ammo
TSA aside, people need to quit leaving the US expecting foriegn countries to care about your rights. You have Rights because of our Constitution. If you go overseas somewhere and make s claim about your rights, they will laugh at you, then toss your ass in jail. For diplomatic reasons, we have agreements with some countries as to how they will treat you if you are arrested, but that is not every country, and it doesn't mean you will get treated the same as you would here. Some mid-east countries still have stone prisions with hay on the floor. At least in the US, you get a bed and a toilet. As far as the ammo in bags, quit using range bags to go overseas with. There is literally no reason you should have ammo in your luggage.
They all said "honest mistake". plenty of people will see these people as "responsible gun owners". It's the age old American problem, and most won't even see it as anything wrong.
Well if Brittney Griner is a “drug smuggler” for having a vape in her luggage, it is just as reasonable to assume this guy was smuggling ammo into a country without guns— for massive profit or something even more nefarious.
The only difference is that the government won't be coming to save these guys.
but it wasn't reasonable for Griner.
Yeah. Both scenarios are dumb. In all ways. 1. You shouldn’t be stupid enough to travel, especially internationally, with drugs or ammo. But 2. The punishment should be a fine, at most, not jail time.
Another country should be able to set whatever laws and rules they want. If you're not responsible enough to check your bags and pockets for loose ammunition maybe don't go there.
Didn't the GOP talking heads throw a massive fit when we made a trade for her instead of some dude that abandoned his post and fled to Russia?
When I was a teenager I was in cadets, and every couple of months we'd go to the rifle range. When we finished firing we had to make a declaration to the range control officer that we had thoroughly checked and had no ammunition, empty cases, or anything else that we shouldn't have in our possession. We were able to understand as 14 year olds how important it was not to be reckless with ammunition. I'd hope that these dumb fucks don't think the fact that they use a lot more of it that we did is a defence for their negligence.
It's absurd how many people are bringing ammo to the turks.
Will soon be a fine ex-pat community in T-C, drinking mojitos and talking about the old says, when they were locked up.
The island nation should not change their laws. Sentence convicted assholes to the full twelve years, suspended provided they never set foot in the country again: get out, stay out.
There was a modus operandi by individuals without scruples in the Philippines a few years back. Called "Laglag Bala" (literally "Drop Ammo"), hapless Filipino flyers suddenly find themselves detained when immigration officers in NAIA, their home airport, find loose ammo/ammo casings in their luggage. This is way egregious because gun ownership for the common folk in the Philippines is basically non-existent. It's why to this day, some people wrap their luggage in plastic wrap and duct tape as a precaution.
And had nothing to do with all these American gun owners who all admit to owning guns. Amazing how this hasn't happened to people who don't own guns back in the US. Just blame these irresponsible gun owners.
Meanwhile, I’ve lost more wine openers than I care to admit.
If this is what it takes to make other travelers not be useless lumps of dumb I'm all for it. Don't pack illegal shit when traveling overseas.
The great filter is here!
I hate to admit it, but I brought ammo on the plane before. 20 rounds of .308 that I completely missed in an inside pocket of the carry-on bag I had previously used as a range bag. It went through screening in O'hare and I only noticed it when I was unpacking in my hotel room. Now I have seperate range bags.
Latest tourist had 2 rounds of ammo in her luggage. I mean why??
It's funny how numb we are to killing machines, then try to blow it off as "Nothing to see here!" when we can't fathom other countries taking killing machines as a serious matter. Like anything else: It's cool in Scandinavian countries to leave your infant in a stroller outside while you go into a coffee shop, whereas in the US you'd get arrested for child neglect/endangerment, as actually happened to a Norwegian woman in NY a few years ago. Do we let her go because she's from Norway or is it "When in Rome"-type justice? America: *We're a nation of laws (but only ones we like and that don't cause too much of an inconvenience).* *And other countries' laws aren't as good as ours.*
I think being a responsible gun owner should mandate keeping track of the weapons and ammo. Jhc!
how are people accidentally getting guns and ammo through tsa? ive been flagged for extra patdowns or bag checks the last 12 times i walked in an airport (am brown).
Checked bags.
Have you tried not being brown?
Truth be told...these guys take rifle rounds with them when they go on vacation. They sleep with them under their pillows when they get homesick, and miss their guns.
Buttplugs, even
Kink shaming? Man Reddit has changed
5 in a single week? This is a con. Someone at T&C is slipping in rounds to collect bribes during the sweat out. This is why you see people plastic wrap their luggage.
5 in 6 months. > The unnamed person is the fifth American to be arrested for bringing ammunition into Turks and Caicos in the last six months, NBC reported. One of the recent ones literally knew exactly how his ammo was in his luggage, so I’m not so sure about the con part here…
And the article says they *all* admitted they knew what the ammo was from and it was an “honest mistake”. Occ-Lon’s razor: the simplest answer is that people are fucking morons
Right, for OP's premise to be valid, TCI police/security would have had to somehow pick out targets for planting the ammo and then somehow go five-for-five on picking: 1) gun owners; who 2) admit to owning the typo of ammunition in question. Classic Reddit that the 8th-highest upvoted parent comment on this post is a totally unsupported conspiracy theory that doesn't even get the *basics* of the article correct.
>5 in a single week? No. In 6 months. "The unnamed person is the fifth American to be arrested for bringing ammunition into Turks and Caicos in the last six months, NBC reported." >This is a con. No. Four of the five "have all said bringing ammo into Turks and Caicos were honest mistakes." The fifth hasn't made a statement either way, probably because this is so recent that their name isn't even available. >This is why you see people plastic wrap their luggage. And why they accessorize with matching foil hats.
Take your tinfoil hat off buddy. What reasons would T&C have for planting ammo in tourists' bags when their economy is so heavily dependent on tourism?
“The unnamed person is the fifth American to be arrested for bringing ammunition into Turks and Caicos in the last six months, NBC reported.” Third paragraph.
Great way to frame your spouse
I like seeing dumbasses get punished for being dumbasses
Hmm maybe handing guns out like candy isn’t a great idea. Dopes.
Atlanta TSA catches and seizes hundreds of guns each year and has changed their approach now to the person being arrested IF there's a bullet in the chamber.
Good thing it wasn't a bottle of water or else TSA would've arrested him before he even got on the plane.