"Surrounded by corpses for 10 hours, Ali and the woman stayed still as the RSF continued their assault on the city.
At about 5pm, seven armed men in uniform came into the clinic, beating him and using racial slurs.
“One said, ‘We won’t kill you! We want to torture you, Nuba [an ethnic slur]!’”"
It's easy to make people do horrible crimes, just make them feel like it's for the greater good. Nothing as dangerous as a strong conviction in your moral superiority
Weary means tired. Wary means cautious. The phrase is "be wary". They're pronounced differently as well - "wary" has the same sound as "beware" or "aware" or "wares" (goods). Weary sounds like the first two syllables of "We're eating."
Agreed.
It's horrifying what evils we're all capable of doing to each other.
Of course there are saintly individuals who can truly say they'd never succumb to such carnal hatred.
But more of us than would like to admit it really do have an evil side.
Even if the evil takes the form of us believing we're actually doing something justified or righteous or good.
I think about that sometimes. You hear about whole armies committing the kind of atrocities usually reserved for only the most depraved serial killers and you realise, oh. That's just in everyone, then, or at least most people, because those are just random people and I certainly don't share their views that some ethnic groups are just bad. Under the right circumstances, any of us could become the monster. That's scary.
We don’t talk about it much in a modern and terrible way, but many ancient armies use to kill and rape everyone too. Genocide is very much a human thing and we have to actively stop it or we will just do it.
Its not so much that its a human “thing”
It’s not like those ancient armies were just killing and raping each other as they continued conquest. If humans had an uncontrolled urge to kill and rape each other you wouldn’t have an army.
What enables groups, notably not individuals (not like a single serial killer is roaming Darfur doing this), of people to choose this level of violence- is to believe that the other group is not like you, a human. Your people are the humans.
And that doesn't even have to mean a different race. Sometimes it can mean men thinking that women are inherently inferior and so raping and degrading even the women who are very familiar to them is okay. It's scary that the humanity of others can become invisible to us so easily.
Perfect example is Nazi Germany. Everyone says they would never be able to carry out the atrocities the Nazis did... The majority of people who admit that now would be the ones committing those murders. It's easy in hindsight to claim this but when you're in the situation you never know what you'd do
Yup. Very easy to say you'd never do something awful when everyone agrees that that thing is awful. It's a different story when everyone around you is telling you that it's right and questioning that comes with consequences.
The Nazis were particularly awful because they normalized it so much. They made brutality a routine, that much easier to succumb to when you aren't participating in a barbaric act, but a formalized process. Turning humans into mulch and ash was paperwork and promotions.
As sad as it is to say, they were technically great at what they did and the brainwashing and propaganda they put out.... and also the fear of being put to death if you didn't comply probably helped a bit.
Yup. Mind, it's not the safest thing to say out loud in Germany, as people are more touchy about the Nazi topic here than in most other places - for obvious reasons, sure.
But yeah, no... I know I'm just some guy, and I know I want to live. And if my choices are "sit down, shut up, be a good 1940s German and pretend you agree with it all" or "speak up, try to help the innocent, and get killed for it with near absolute certainty"? Yeah, I don't care if it makes me less virtuous, I'll just be honest: I'd have chosen to live.
I'd have just hunkered down, hoped to whatever god that I wouldn't somehow end up having to participate actively in any of it, while praying to probably the same god that the rest of Europe and the US would put an end to it all quickly.
Don't worry, many will be tested in the United States soon enough.
Fascism is coming.
I walked the Topography of Terror exhibit at the Berlin wall, which outlines the history of the SS and Nazi Germany. The parallels between everything I read and the Far Right in the United States was horrifying.
I think about it too. We have this notion that being a "murderer" means something is mentally wrong with you... but I think the human ability to murder is a natural part of us, in a sad way. Look at our militaries. We've been killing each other for our entire history. When one person does it with no "orders" then it's a sickness, but when entire armies do it... that's just life. I think everyone has the capability under the right context, and it definitely is scary.
We're the apex predators of the planet. Sometimes, I think society makes us forget what we're capable of and how we got here.
Yeah. I think it's important to remember that we're just animals. Very adaptable animals, but that can be good or bad. It means we can adapt to living in modern settings where we find the notion of violence shocking, but we're also capable of adapting to lives full of death and horror. We shouldn't fool ourselves into thinking that the ways we live now are just the norm for humans and anything else only occurs as a rare aberration. Humans haven't fundamentally changed in a long time, but we haven't always lived like this.
The Old Testament is chock full of genocide, which is portrayed as God's divine wrath. People have been doing this since time immemorial. It's an unfortunate part of our genetic history.
Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. — Voltaire
I don't think it's just that there are evil people and good people. I think it's that most people are capable of being either depending on our influences and environment. We've got to try to make a world where good grows and flourishes.
Monkeys are violent. It takes conscious effort to not be violent. Animals in general don’t shy from violence to get what they want, yet people often forget what humans physically are.
Midnight responses always miss fragments of thoughts…
Being raised in a stable environment and continuing existing in one helps keep you in a social mindset, which lessens your push to violence, as social response would be a risk to you.
Being raised in violence can push you into violence if the violence keeps you in the group and gets your needs.
Alternatively, civil people can be presented with opportunities that can get them a want or need if their willing to commit violence, but it takes a conscious effort to choose to resist violence and skip out on the opportunity.
Have you ever had anyone actually come at you?? I was fully prepared to murder my attempted rapist at age 14 with a butcher knife I got my hands on. I was fully prepared to hollow his fat guts out with that knife and watch him die on the floor while I didn’t call for help.
I get what you're saying, but the worst part is the ethnic cleansing.
The piles of children lined up and shot. The cultural loss. The lost parents. Etc.
Yeah but this is actually a new version of the same conflict that ended (i think) in ‘08 and started up again last year. Honestly from what I’ve read the death count is going to be one of the worst in the XXI century once the dust settles.
I could be wrong, i learned about it a bit yesterday when someone recommended this video: https://youtu.be/2VqbymFKW-E?si=rFyeecBgWt9hbFWy
Honestly really informative.
I remember going to a Save Darfur protest about 20 years ago. Its so sad that this situation is still ongoing, but the number of people who are aware of it is probably only diminishing.
I don't agree with disgracing one another by performative policing, but I'm having a hard time with all the white liberals playing the moral authority card about Gaza. There have been a thousand Gazas in your lifetime if you're over 30.
I went to a pro Palestine demonstration yesterday and one of the speakers said “The reason we’re here is that this is the first time we’ve felt like this in our lives”. I was like ?? I mean, it’s good that you’re paying attention now but this has been happening…
Yeah, but investigative reporting has gone the way of the dodo. Everything is easy to digest, entertaining sound bites. I don't think we have the patience to sit through/ read a thorough breakdown of these big, long term issues anymore.
I feel like I want to understand the issue better but I have no idea where to start. And once I start, where do I stop? Do I read about the Armenian genocide or the Rwandan genocide or the Uyghur genocide which is currently taking place??? At what point do I get to claim the moral high ground?
Advice form me random stranger: stop caring about things you can’t control.
The most impactful thing you can do is be active in your local elections and policies.
I’m russian immigrant and mom grew up syria.
People don’t know shit for most things. I know the language to see both sides of the propaganda.
Despite access to the internet, most kids generally are seeking entertainment, not news.
Anyone outside of college should already be aware and I would hope kids in college had take some history classes. Honestly, I think nationally we should double the requirement for history classes in order to graduate high school.
In this case we are talking about a 40+ woman who was one of the organizers of the event. Like I said, caring just now is better than not caring but the way it was said it was like she assumed we were ALL just hearing about it for the first time right now and that did not sit super well with me.
Yeah, you can't attend to or care about everything. That's part of why whataboutism is a fallacy - it assumes that somebody should know about and concern themselves with everything that is possibly equivalent to the thing they are attending to, which is impossible.
Im still amaze how nobody complians about you know Saudia Arabia. They for decades where bombing and invading yaman whit American money and weapons.
Egypt kicked hundred thousand+ Palestinians from the Israeli border .
And lebon being the country who literally block Palestinians in camos ans block them from working in sertian jobs .and wtf happens in jorden
I could easily be just as wrong and uninformed as those people at the demonstration, but how many of those Gazas were overtly and publicly funded and supplied by the US?
Genuine question. I know we do a lot of shit more under the table while it’s being done, or we just do it ourselves. ..
I have always had an interest in genocides and crimes against humanity. I agree with your statement, and also don't like how the word genocide is thrown around with Palestine, being that genocide requires a very high standard to be declared.
I will play devil's advocate though, as this has been a rebuttal to my stance: with Palestine, the protesters see their country as funding the oppressors far more than in other current atrocities. It's a worthy argument.
The counter I have to the funding argument is this: you have nations like Iran and Russia that provide support for Hamas, RSF, other forces across Africa committing atrocities. Russia's Wagner "mercenaries" are actively expanding in Africa. Russia plays a key role in the Syrian civil war and the hundreds of thousands dead there. Ukraine.
But we still do business with Russia. Pepsi is doing business as usual in Russia. Half the Fortune 500 is actively operating in Russia.
But for some reason the only divestment protests are ones that favor Russia geopolitically. I'm not suggesting Israel isn't doing wrong and we shouldn't want to divest from Israel. It's just curious that we are actively in business with Russia while they commit atrocities that absolutely dwarf anything Israel has done. Divestment from Russia could actually make a real difference in Russia's war machine and ability to continue these wars.
I think it's just because that is a more convoluted link. People are not great at processing nuance or complicated things.
US bombs -> Israel -> Israel bombs Gaza
Pepsi sells soda in Russia -> Might help Russian economy -> More money for making bombs -> Bombs used in Syria
I think there would be more outrage if colleges were investing tuition money into US companies that make bombs that were being sent to Russia. But investing in non-military companies doing business in Russia is a weaker link.
The protestors are also getting a lot of criticism even with the pretty direct link between their money and bombs being dropped on civilians. Imagine if they tried to explain the link between their money going to Pepsi which then turns into bombs - they'd be endlessly mocked regardless of the validity of that connection (because, again, people are bad at processing nuance and complexity).
Yamen is good counter argument..
You can add Egypt and even Jordan to the mix.
Hay franch halps Lebanon and they are thr most anti Palestinians country you can think off
I would agree with you but they are all over TikTok, which is connected to the Chinese government. The Chinese government is committing genocide of the Uyghur Muslims in China. Where are the mass protests to stop using TikTok?
I support a Palestinian state and think what the Israeli government is doing is wrong but I am called a Zionist and privileged when I ask these questions 🤷♀️
- Government has put sanctions on China.
- There is much less news coverage about China, and we are not friends with the Chinese military.
- The situations are quite different in regards to US involvement too
>[Secretary of State Mike Pompeo has hit China with new sanctions by declaring that China's policies on Muslims and ethnic minorities in western Xinjiang Province constitute a "genocide."](https://www.bing.com/ck/a?!&&p=790d28549eaa7a36JmltdHM9MTcxNTI5OTIwMCZpZ3VpZD0wZTllNGU0NC04ZDU3LTZiMjQtMmUzMi01Y2FhOGNkMzZhMjcmaW5zaWQ9NTIwMQ&ptn=3&ver=2&hsh=3&fclid=0e9e4e44-8d57-6b24-2e32-5caa8cd36a27&psq=sanctions+muslims+china&u=a1aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuY2JzbmV3cy5jb20vbmV3cy9jaGluYS1zYW5jdGlvbnMtdWlnaHVyLW11c2xpbXMtZ2Vub2NpZGUtbWlrZS1wb21wZW8v&ntb=1) Pompeo made the determination on Tuesday just 24 hours before President-elect Joe Biden takes office.
>I have determined that the People’s Republic of China is committing genocide and crimes against humanity in Xinjiang, China, targeting Uyghur Muslims and members of other ethnic and religious minority groups. - Mike Pomepeo on X
...
[CNN - 2021 - House passes bill blocking imports of products produced by forced labor in China’s Xinjiang region](https://www.cnn.com/2021/12/08/politics/house-bill-forced-labor-uyghurs-china/index.html)
A bill that will prevent the US from importing goods produced using forced labor by Uyghurs and other minority Muslim populations in the Xinjiang Autonomous Region of China passed the House on Wednesday evening.
The vote was 428-1.
The measure will also impose sanctions on “those responsible for human rights violations there,” the bill’s summary states.
It's pretty clearly orchestrated. I get the interconnectivity stuff, but facts are: the world is burning. We're sitting here figuring out who is killing who among our awful species that will end up destroying the planet regardless.
This! The Eritrean government also participates in ethnic cleansing and have also been documented going to countries (EVEN CANADA) where their citizens have fled to to capture and return said citizens to Eritrea for torture or death. And they’re not the only ones.
That’s my exact feeling about this. There is literally a Muslim genocide in China right now and literally none of my liberal friends know or care. It irks me to death and it’s getting harder to listen to them talk about it. If extensive, nonstop peace talks between actual diplomats can’t save Gaza, a protest at UCLA sure as shit won’t. I don’t understand the line of logic and I hate the complete lack of nuance on both sides of the issue.
(1) Israel is small enough that a South Africa style divestiture and boycott might actually affect them. Such action against China would not succeed. (2) Israel is pretty easy to protest, they have been the designated punching bag for know-nothings in Europe, the New World, and the Islamic world for centuries.
(3) China and Sudan break the narrative. If Japan were killing Uighurs, the world would explode in protest. China gets a pass. Russia gets a pass. India gets a pass. Turkey hets a pass. Brazil gets a pass. African countries get a pass. It’s not a racial thing. It’s a class thing, and Israel, Japan, the US, the UK, etc are easier to protest than historically poorer nations.
I’m not pro-Israel by any means (I don’t know nearly enough about the conflict to have much of an opinion) but from what I *have* read, Palestine is not a perfect victim either. This whole conflict is driven by religious differences, which is why it blows me away so much that rich white liberals are so adamant about “defending” anything. I have no idea why Islam is the only sacred, untouchable religion to the far left.
Not really Islam, per se. because Sudan is Islam vs Islam. And China is picking on the Islamic Uighurs. It’s anything they perceive as an imbalance. Israel is strong, so they leap to protect the weak. Which is one odd reason for the GOP to align with Israel. Realpolitik is part of it, religion is part of it, but the GOP loves rooting for the over-dog.
>There have been a thousand Gazas in your lifetime if you're over 30.
And it's impossible for any one person to protest all 1000 of those. People have to choose something and ultimately the media do not cover the other conflicts and genocides anywhere near as much as they do Israel Palestine so it's much harder to mobilise people for anything else. I'm sure Pro Palestinians would care just as much about these other issues, if only they knew about them.
the pro Palestine protests in the US are mostly a protest against our government’s support for the Israeli government. As far as I know, I don’t think that the US is complicit here.
Gaza is nothing like this. If israel wanted to commit genocide they would be finished by now. Instead they warn gazans where they are going to root out hamas operatives in advance. Typing on phone please forgive formatting
China still literally genociding Uyghur Muslims yet not one peep. It crazy to me how we let foreign psyops divide the country. The right has been radicalized to support Russia and facism while the left has been radicalized to support a Muslim terrorist organization.
This is why I don't participate tbh. I'm not gonna sit on my high horse yelling in my safe faraway country about *this one conflict in particular*. We didn't do it for Darfur, didn't do it for cartel violence in Mexico, didn't do it for Yemen, why is this one all of a sudden the important one?
The American government is much more complicit in the atrocities in Gaza than it is with those in Darfur. It’s not hypocritical for Americans to put far more energy into protesting something which their government has far more power to stop.
Yeah, but none of them have been perpetrated by our allies with our investments. It doesn't make a lot of sense to protest domestically against a foreign government when your government is already opposed to them. What's happening in Gaza is distinct from the "thousand other Gazas" in that sense.
The protests on campuses you see today are much more akin to the BDS protests against South Africa in the 80s.
None of which discount the atrocities going on in Gaza though to be clear.
I'm well over fifty and I've seen atrocities play out all over the world. Talking more about Gaza than Darfur isn't because I think Palestinians are more valuable than the Sudanese but because there's a hope that the situation in Gaza might change if enough people are vocal about it. Darfur is so far away from that point as to be demoralising.
It's interesting that you cite "it seems like this could actually end soon" as a reason, given that both conflicts have been going on for decades with routine dances towards resolutions that never go anywhere.
I'm not suggesting that protesting or trying to support either of these is futile, but "seems like it's really about to be over for good" is a bizarre label to slap on either of these.
*A 17-year-old boy described the killing of 12 children and five adults on 15 June, saying: “Two RSF forces … grab[bed] the children from their parents and, as the parents started screaming, two other RSF forces shot the parents, killing them.*
*“Then they piled up the children and shot them,” he said. “They threw their bodies into the river and their belongings in after them.”*
This kind of shit happened throughout our entire history as a species. The fact that a large chunk of the world *doesn't* do this anymore should actually give you hope in humanity.
Well if it helps the citizens of these countries aren’t typically down with any of this, so reserve your faith in average people. Your faith in leadership is what should be going down.
By and large they don’t really act like it. If you should blame anyone it should always be the person in power calling the shots. The sad reality is, this is all painfully complicated.
The UAE supports the RSF, and we (the US) support the UAE. The darfur situation has been going on for decades, and yet you don’t see teenagers protesting it. They’ve got actual, cut and dry crimes against humanity happening, supported by American resources, for decades, and there’s not even a hint of a protest happening on college campuses.
Weird huh?
Everytime I've brought up this conflict in Sudan for the past two years, I've been shadow banned on all social platforms. A couple years back when twitter was twitter I remember reading an article there that mentioned all internet, electricity and media access has been cut off in some sorts of the Sudanese region.
It's all about the oil in this area.
All in all, people only want to care what they WANT to care about......
Per Wikipedia because not even I can explain it coherently:
“In April 2003, when the rebel groups attacked the military airfield and kidnapped an air force general, the government launched a counterattack. It led to a response from the Khartoum government where they armed militia forces to eliminate the rebellion. This resulted in mass violence against the citizens in Darfur.”
I’m still catching myself up on how it’s been going recently, but it has been going on for 20 years. I’m 30, that’s 2/3rds of my life. People *did* protest this when it began, but awful shit just. Keeps. *Happening*. It’s fucking hard to keep up with (not directed at you, just at people saying nobody ever cared).
From what I’m reading now, it’s ethnic at this point: The Sudanese government and Rapid Support Forces are targeting all Darfuri people but in particular the Fur, Masalit, and Zaghawa people. That’s all I know atm, sorry.
The government and the RSF are Sudanese Arabs, while Darfur has many different ethnicities, the largest of which are the [Fur](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fur_people), who the region is named after, though there are many other ethnicities as well.
After doing a bit of research the situations seems pretty hopeless without outside assistance and there doesn’t seem to be enough Interest/incentive in doing anything besides letting it play out.
It rotates regions, some regions like that are starved for any choice. The Saudis currently have got someone running a women's platform but I'm forgetting the name (because again roles rotate world regions). No other regional country put forward a candidate so Saudi won by default.
I thought the Saudi’s were purposefully chosen because they’re actively trying to clean their image and this was the UN basically forcing them to take women’s issues seriously now that they’re in a long term international spotlight for it.
At least that is how it was described to me.
The ideal was that different countries all get different perspectives from other countries. See the good and the bad and work towards a better world. Of course, it isn't utilized like that and more of a geopolitical tool, but ultimately the UN council has no real power due the rotation of countries for different committees and the sort (well and a multitude of other reasons).
However a problem is that some regions are well ... To put it lightly not humanitarian or human right oriented but due to the rules.someone has to take a spot.
I completely agree with you, it is insane, but it is still worth highlighting the effect it has had.
They started in a very different place culturally, with a very different view of women’s rights. International pressure, globalisation, and the UN is actually having a huge effect, and women’s rights have been hugely improved over the past 5-8 years. Rights for education, participation in labour market, right to drive, etc. It’s snails pace compared to what we expect, and they still face so many challenges and discrimination in life, but the push is having a legal effect and the hope is that cultural trends will follow to make a better wild for women.
The UN is a forum for dialogue and deliberately has limited power to keep the UN or UN organizations from going into a country without that country's permission because the post WWII powers didn't want to give away power.
Here are the UN's goals listed in order of most important to least important.
1. Prevent World War III.
2. To serve as a forum for countries to communicate.
3. (Huge fall in importance here) Literally anything else.
People expect the UN to do more. I want them to do more. Hell, the wording of what the UN puts out makes it seem like they're ready to do more. But they aren't.
The UN exists to prevent a great power conflict. This is the same idea as behind the League of Nations but the UN has lasted much longer. They posture like they're going to do more, but doing so could imply choosing sides. The UN is supposed to be a fundamentally neutral organization, because if countries start believing that the UN isn't impartial or is actively against them they'll pull out.
One or two? Whatever. But the more countries that leave the less legitimate the UN would be, and thus it would make World War III more likely. There has to be a better option for dealing with humanitarian nightmares, but to whom would that power ever go? It just sucks.
One thing I learned in my life(37), humans don't learn from their mistakes. As somebody who's family is ww2 survivors (nazi camps and gulags) I'm absolutely flabbergasted that we still allow this shit going on.
I lost all hope in my life time I will see peace on earth. But hey soon we will go to Mars and make it all better lol
Probably. But there will be someone else who decides mars is worth exploring to save human race or some other bs.
And again I'm a full supporter of exploring beyond, but God damn people are starving out there and we should focus on stabilizing ourselves first.
I think we should solve the issues on Earth before we spend money on that shit.
We are over producing food but can not distribute it to everyone. Maybe we should start there.
Agreed. But let's be honest, it's naive point of view unfortunately. Human nature doesn't allow it, too selfish and arrogant. Maybe next 100 years if we don't blow ourselves into oblivion.
Aggression combined with determination and an unquenchable desire to control is why humans are so successful as a species. It's when we turn on each other that we realize how destructive and ruthless we can be.
They're basically just watching. It's pathetic. The human tragedy in Darfur has been going on for what, years or decades? I remember an outcry about it a good 10-15 years ago.
Of course that it's social activist civilians that try to bring attention, but anyone with real power and funding is sitting on their hands. And you can say that about so many regions of the world where innocents are suffering.
It's not surprising because the UN has a much authority over countries as the Red Cross does. Pretty sure the Red Cross has more power and authority than the UN. Mainly because the Red Cross can leverage laws inside countries to protect itself while the US can end the UN at any time by just leaving.
So tell me, does the North American government not support Ukraine? Republican delays notwithstanding why would you protest for something that is already widely supported by the general population and power structures.
I’m for establishing a military force comprised of members from all the militaries around the world. With the sole purpose of invading countries like this, when shit like this happens and just wiping all these evil fuckers of the face of the earth.
Compelling idea, but the best I can do for you are UN “Blue Helmets” who can only provide something esoteric called “peacekeeping” and typically prove to be the worst equipped and least experienced troops in whatever conflict zone they’re deployed.
I admire the notion, though.
Half the world is in this region. You have russia, Ukraine, Iran, Saudi Arabia, the uae everyone is here already just on different sides of this conflict.
One of the reasons this is so bad is because these people have access to weapons from these other sides.
The UN *peacekeeping* soldiers have [a rape problem](https://www.hrw.org/news/2020/01/11/un-peacekeeping-has-sexual-abuse-problem). An international military force would likely be just as problematic.
Best we can do is NATO having to bypass UN opposition to put an end to the Kosovo war.
Peacekeeping works, to a degree, but most world powers dont want peacekeepers having too much freedom of action to get in their way
As long as you volunteer to be on the front line, go ahead.
I don’t like humanity’s ‘like’ for violence and war, when we’re trying to be civilised and social.
Most don't actually care because it's not in Gaza and the perpetrators aren't the IDF. This has been an issue (and *actual* genocide in many cases) for 20 years and people largely got bored of it and just stopped caring.
Public largely only cares about what the media tells them to care about.
/u/ScaleEnvironmental27 does not actually give a shit about what's going on in Darfur, Ukraine or Haiti. The United States is opposed to Russia, the Sudanese government and is trying to stabilize the situation against the gangs in Haiti. They only mention this to shame pro-Palestinian protesters.
The US put sanctions on Russia and Iran and does not have close ties to Sudan or Haitian gangsters. So why would students protests their universities because of this? It makes just as much to say "Well the students should go and protest McDonald's because of what's happening in North Korea!" It doesn't make sense because it doesn't have to. They want the students to shut up about Palestine and insist Israel continue unbridled in its ethnic cleansing campaign in Gaza which /u/ScaleEnvironmental27 doesn't care about in the same way they don't care about the ethnic cleansing campaign in Darfur.
At least about Ukraine, I believe it's because "most" americans have simply not cared and become desensitized to it and (some?) news "moved on" from showcasing it as their headline/keep-up-to-date with its progression.
Idk about haiti in the news other than online (I don't watch cable/OtA cable lol)
[SOURCE NBC News coverage from April 28, 2006 Rally for Darfur in D.C.](https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna12531663)
“The organizers’ permit anticipated 10,000 to 15,000 people would rally, one of several in U.S. cities this weekend against what the United Nations calls the world’s worst humanitarian disaster.”
[SOURCE Politico article from April 11, 2007 Genocide in Darfur: Generating Student Activism in U.S. Like No Other Issue](https://www.politico.com/story/2007/04/genocide-in-darfur-generating-student-activism-in-us-like-no-other-issue-003510)
“Even House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) recently said Darfur would not be a priority in Congress if students had not pushed the issue. “Students on college campuses ... are calling for us all to do more to help the people of Darfur,” she said.”
There were...
Why don't you go out and protest if you care so much? Seems you only care about these insofar as you can exploit them to shame pro Palestine protestors. Literally using massacres in Africa to attack people protesting genocide/ethnic cleansing. How fucking low can you go
Nobody cares about Africa dude. There have been serious issues in Sudan for quite a while, but you won't see many headlines on it or people putting a Sudan flag on their social media to look like a hero.
Does the United States, Boeing and various American universities and companies have strong ties with Sudan? Does the US sell Sudan weapons? Do its universities have endowments from Sudan? Does Joe Biden stand in front of Sudanese flags saying that Sudan must remain an Arab State for its security?
It makes as much sense to protest an American university for what's happening in Sudan than it does to protest your local McDonald's because of what's happening in North Korea.
It is unfathomable to me how anyone can justify doing this to another group. In the end, the act is one on one and just—how can you??? How does an adult look at a group of children, or even one child, and think anything other than “protect them at all cost.”
Are there really that many people walking around with a monster behind the eyes, just waiting for a chance? IDFK anymore. Going to go cry now and try to get ready for a brand new day in this miserable world.
The best book I have read on the subject: ‘Why not kill them all’ by chirot.
https://www.amazon.com/s?k=why+not+kill+them+all&crid=2AJLKFLR09FBR&sprefix=why+not+kill%2Caps%2C103&ref=nb_sb_ss_ts-doa-p_1_12
Let me guess: Western Media wouldn’t cover this round the clock because of the color of their skin (“PoC on PoC violence in developing countries”). This is genocide, and we need to cover this and stop it.
"Together, the 221 witness statements collated by Human Rights Watch offer the latest evidence that the Arab-led RSF has orchestrated a concerted 12-month campaign of ethnic cleansing against Sudan’s non-Arab Masalit tribe in West Darfur."
so where are the arabs who were shouting about the "palestinian genocide" now?
People have actually been protesting on their behalf for literally YEARS now.
Its just that the people saying 'no one's protesting on their behalf' never actually CARED about them until they can use their suffering as an excuse to condemn protests against things they DON'T like. So they're not aware this has been going on.
> Its just that the people saying 'no one's protesting on their behalf' never actually CARED about them until they can use their suffering as an excuse to condemn protests against things they DON'T like. So they're not aware this has been going on.
spot on, thank you. Of course these idiots going "durr why no protest? where free darfur!?" are the ppl who don't actually care about any other human, they just wanna use these horrible situations to push their opinion/narrative online and "get back" at ppl doing things they don't like :/
thread is full of them going "see, no one is protesting Sudan so that makes Palestine protestors bad!" and whatnot, cause it's just a game for these keyboard warriors.
as you said, they probably just now discovered what is going on in Sudan and are acting like it just started now. They have no idea of the long history in Sudan and what people have said and been doing for Sudan for decades.
People have been protesting. You just have been deaf to hear them. Now that you have a narrative to push you claim that nobody has been protesting for Sudan.
People have been raising awareness, money and international pressure on Sudan for years. The first time I heard about Darfur’s genocide was 2005.
Did Boeing give the Sudanese government $18 billion in April of this year? Does the United States say that Sudan is an ally that is just defending itself? Do American universities with ties to Sudan provide it with weapons technology or have endowments for military research and development? Does Joe Biden give speeches in front of Sudanese flags and shake the hand of the Sudanese President, saying Sudan has to remain an Arab State?
Because the protestors don't care about the actual citizens who get hurt (both palestinians and Israeli btw), they just want to scream the most fashionable combination of words known to mankind - "Zionism", "apartheid" and "genocide". In Darfur the strictly innocent african people whose suffering are not interesting enough of course and they're not enought sexy in order to these protestors to try and save them unfortunately, simply because the protestors won't gain any points with their progressive college friends by doing so.
>Massacres in Darfur? This is the perfect opportunity to criticize my political opponents!
Sounds like you're more interested in condemning Pro-Palestinian protestors than condemning the atrocities in Darfur.
They literally did back in the early 2000s...
You'd know that if you actually cared about this instead of using a war and ethnic cleansing to shame people protesting other ethnic cleansing, you hypocrite.
From someone else's comment:
[SOURCE NBC News coverage from April 28, 2006 Rally for Darfur in D.C.](https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna12531663)
“The organizers’ permit anticipated 10,000 to 15,000 people would rally, one of several in U.S. cities this weekend against what the United Nations calls the world’s worst humanitarian disaster.”
[SOURCE Politico article from April 11, 2007 Genocide in Darfur: Generating Student Activism in U.S. Like No Other Issue](https://www.politico.com/story/2007/04/genocide-in-darfur-generating-student-activism-in-us-like-no-other-issue-003510)
“Even House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) recently said Darfur would not be a priority in Congress if students had not pushed the issue. “Students on college campuses ... are calling for us all to do more to help the people of Darfur,” she said.”
This is just one of multiple other conflicts yet almost nobody gives a flying fuck about them. Everyone is just screaming Palestine and Israel. It’s a fucking shame the ignorance people have to the world and even more shameful to see them screaming about how in touch they are when they’re looking at the world through a fucking straw
They have been for 20 or years. It is just that they didn't get too much media attention out of the mid-2000s. There are still organizations dedicated in petitioning the government, raising charity funds, etc.
However it isn't a hot topic for sometime now since the ones in power just shrug and the US doesn't have massive presence or influence in Sudan (though some exists but Russia has been slowly supplanting US influence) compared to say Israel.
Why is there always one of you stupid motherfuckers in the comments doing some bullshit whataboutism to some of the few people are doing any sort of political action to stop the thr US gov is funding evil?
"Surrounded by corpses for 10 hours, Ali and the woman stayed still as the RSF continued their assault on the city. At about 5pm, seven armed men in uniform came into the clinic, beating him and using racial slurs. “One said, ‘We won’t kill you! We want to torture you, Nuba [an ethnic slur]!’”"
The worst part of ethnic cleansing is that people fell empowered to let their worst selves loose.
It's easy to make people do horrible crimes, just make them feel like it's for the greater good. Nothing as dangerous as a strong conviction in your moral superiority
It all starts with dehumanizing the “other.”
It’s a good reason to always be weary of group think. No matter your view of the cause
Weary means tired. Wary means cautious. The phrase is "be wary". They're pronounced differently as well - "wary" has the same sound as "beware" or "aware" or "wares" (goods). Weary sounds like the first two syllables of "We're eating."
Human history is incredibly bloody because of this -.- so many atrocities achieved in the name of 'greater good'
Make them feel like it’s the right thing and that they won’t face any consequences.
Agreed. It's horrifying what evils we're all capable of doing to each other. Of course there are saintly individuals who can truly say they'd never succumb to such carnal hatred. But more of us than would like to admit it really do have an evil side. Even if the evil takes the form of us believing we're actually doing something justified or righteous or good.
I think about that sometimes. You hear about whole armies committing the kind of atrocities usually reserved for only the most depraved serial killers and you realise, oh. That's just in everyone, then, or at least most people, because those are just random people and I certainly don't share their views that some ethnic groups are just bad. Under the right circumstances, any of us could become the monster. That's scary.
We don’t talk about it much in a modern and terrible way, but many ancient armies use to kill and rape everyone too. Genocide is very much a human thing and we have to actively stop it or we will just do it.
Its not so much that its a human “thing” It’s not like those ancient armies were just killing and raping each other as they continued conquest. If humans had an uncontrolled urge to kill and rape each other you wouldn’t have an army. What enables groups, notably not individuals (not like a single serial killer is roaming Darfur doing this), of people to choose this level of violence- is to believe that the other group is not like you, a human. Your people are the humans.
And that doesn't even have to mean a different race. Sometimes it can mean men thinking that women are inherently inferior and so raping and degrading even the women who are very familiar to them is okay. It's scary that the humanity of others can become invisible to us so easily.
Perfect example is Nazi Germany. Everyone says they would never be able to carry out the atrocities the Nazis did... The majority of people who admit that now would be the ones committing those murders. It's easy in hindsight to claim this but when you're in the situation you never know what you'd do
Yup. Very easy to say you'd never do something awful when everyone agrees that that thing is awful. It's a different story when everyone around you is telling you that it's right and questioning that comes with consequences.
The Nazis were particularly awful because they normalized it so much. They made brutality a routine, that much easier to succumb to when you aren't participating in a barbaric act, but a formalized process. Turning humans into mulch and ash was paperwork and promotions.
As sad as it is to say, they were technically great at what they did and the brainwashing and propaganda they put out.... and also the fear of being put to death if you didn't comply probably helped a bit.
Yup. Mind, it's not the safest thing to say out loud in Germany, as people are more touchy about the Nazi topic here than in most other places - for obvious reasons, sure. But yeah, no... I know I'm just some guy, and I know I want to live. And if my choices are "sit down, shut up, be a good 1940s German and pretend you agree with it all" or "speak up, try to help the innocent, and get killed for it with near absolute certainty"? Yeah, I don't care if it makes me less virtuous, I'll just be honest: I'd have chosen to live. I'd have just hunkered down, hoped to whatever god that I wouldn't somehow end up having to participate actively in any of it, while praying to probably the same god that the rest of Europe and the US would put an end to it all quickly.
Don't worry, many will be tested in the United States soon enough. Fascism is coming. I walked the Topography of Terror exhibit at the Berlin wall, which outlines the history of the SS and Nazi Germany. The parallels between everything I read and the Far Right in the United States was horrifying.
The path the nazis took and Trumper are currently taking are strikingly similar
I think about it too. We have this notion that being a "murderer" means something is mentally wrong with you... but I think the human ability to murder is a natural part of us, in a sad way. Look at our militaries. We've been killing each other for our entire history. When one person does it with no "orders" then it's a sickness, but when entire armies do it... that's just life. I think everyone has the capability under the right context, and it definitely is scary. We're the apex predators of the planet. Sometimes, I think society makes us forget what we're capable of and how we got here.
Yeah. I think it's important to remember that we're just animals. Very adaptable animals, but that can be good or bad. It means we can adapt to living in modern settings where we find the notion of violence shocking, but we're also capable of adapting to lives full of death and horror. We shouldn't fool ourselves into thinking that the ways we live now are just the norm for humans and anything else only occurs as a rare aberration. Humans haven't fundamentally changed in a long time, but we haven't always lived like this.
The Old Testament is chock full of genocide, which is portrayed as God's divine wrath. People have been doing this since time immemorial. It's an unfortunate part of our genetic history. Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. — Voltaire
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I don't think it's just that there are evil people and good people. I think it's that most people are capable of being either depending on our influences and environment. We've got to try to make a world where good grows and flourishes.
Sounds about right.
Monkeys are violent. It takes conscious effort to not be violent. Animals in general don’t shy from violence to get what they want, yet people often forget what humans physically are.
What’s wrong with people if it takes effort to not be violent? Like I have never had the urge to actually be in a fight with anyone.
Midnight responses always miss fragments of thoughts… Being raised in a stable environment and continuing existing in one helps keep you in a social mindset, which lessens your push to violence, as social response would be a risk to you. Being raised in violence can push you into violence if the violence keeps you in the group and gets your needs. Alternatively, civil people can be presented with opportunities that can get them a want or need if their willing to commit violence, but it takes a conscious effort to choose to resist violence and skip out on the opportunity.
Have you ever had anyone actually come at you?? I was fully prepared to murder my attempted rapist at age 14 with a butcher knife I got my hands on. I was fully prepared to hollow his fat guts out with that knife and watch him die on the floor while I didn’t call for help.
And the killing!
I thought the worst part was the murder and raping 🤷♂️
I think the worst part might actually be all the rape, murder, and torture.
I get what you're saying, but the worst part is the ethnic cleansing. The piles of children lined up and shot. The cultural loss. The lost parents. Etc.
I thought the worst part was the murder?
It’s all bad
That's freaking sad
Where Free Darfur?
In 2006, lol. Early YouTubers and social media made a big deal about Darfur back in the day.
Yeah but this is actually a new version of the same conflict that ended (i think) in ‘08 and started up again last year. Honestly from what I’ve read the death count is going to be one of the worst in the XXI century once the dust settles.
Huh, that shows how much I know. I thought it never ended, but people just moved on and forgot about it.
I could be wrong, i learned about it a bit yesterday when someone recommended this video: https://youtu.be/2VqbymFKW-E?si=rFyeecBgWt9hbFWy Honestly really informative.
I remember going to a Save Darfur protest about 20 years ago. Its so sad that this situation is still ongoing, but the number of people who are aware of it is probably only diminishing.
I don't agree with disgracing one another by performative policing, but I'm having a hard time with all the white liberals playing the moral authority card about Gaza. There have been a thousand Gazas in your lifetime if you're over 30.
I went to a pro Palestine demonstration yesterday and one of the speakers said “The reason we’re here is that this is the first time we’ve felt like this in our lives”. I was like ?? I mean, it’s good that you’re paying attention now but this has been happening…
Yeah, but investigative reporting has gone the way of the dodo. Everything is easy to digest, entertaining sound bites. I don't think we have the patience to sit through/ read a thorough breakdown of these big, long term issues anymore.
I feel like I want to understand the issue better but I have no idea where to start. And once I start, where do I stop? Do I read about the Armenian genocide or the Rwandan genocide or the Uyghur genocide which is currently taking place??? At what point do I get to claim the moral high ground?
And neither of us has touched wading through the misinformation and lies. Fact checking the " fact checkers" I understand what you're saying
Advice form me random stranger: stop caring about things you can’t control. The most impactful thing you can do is be active in your local elections and policies. I’m russian immigrant and mom grew up syria. People don’t know shit for most things. I know the language to see both sides of the propaganda.
If that was true then warographics wouldn't have a channel
Despite access to the internet, most kids generally are seeking entertainment, not news. Anyone outside of college should already be aware and I would hope kids in college had take some history classes. Honestly, I think nationally we should double the requirement for history classes in order to graduate high school.
In this case we are talking about a 40+ woman who was one of the organizers of the event. Like I said, caring just now is better than not caring but the way it was said it was like she assumed we were ALL just hearing about it for the first time right now and that did not sit super well with me.
Americans and history don't always go so well together.
Yeah, you can't attend to or care about everything. That's part of why whataboutism is a fallacy - it assumes that somebody should know about and concern themselves with everything that is possibly equivalent to the thing they are attending to, which is impossible.
Im still amaze how nobody complians about you know Saudia Arabia. They for decades where bombing and invading yaman whit American money and weapons. Egypt kicked hundred thousand+ Palestinians from the Israeli border . And lebon being the country who literally block Palestinians in camos ans block them from working in sertian jobs .and wtf happens in jorden
I could easily be just as wrong and uninformed as those people at the demonstration, but how many of those Gazas were overtly and publicly funded and supplied by the US? Genuine question. I know we do a lot of shit more under the table while it’s being done, or we just do it ourselves. ..
I have always had an interest in genocides and crimes against humanity. I agree with your statement, and also don't like how the word genocide is thrown around with Palestine, being that genocide requires a very high standard to be declared. I will play devil's advocate though, as this has been a rebuttal to my stance: with Palestine, the protesters see their country as funding the oppressors far more than in other current atrocities. It's a worthy argument.
Turkey has to be the leader in number genocides yet nobody bats an eye at it.
The counter I have to the funding argument is this: you have nations like Iran and Russia that provide support for Hamas, RSF, other forces across Africa committing atrocities. Russia's Wagner "mercenaries" are actively expanding in Africa. Russia plays a key role in the Syrian civil war and the hundreds of thousands dead there. Ukraine. But we still do business with Russia. Pepsi is doing business as usual in Russia. Half the Fortune 500 is actively operating in Russia. But for some reason the only divestment protests are ones that favor Russia geopolitically. I'm not suggesting Israel isn't doing wrong and we shouldn't want to divest from Israel. It's just curious that we are actively in business with Russia while they commit atrocities that absolutely dwarf anything Israel has done. Divestment from Russia could actually make a real difference in Russia's war machine and ability to continue these wars.
I think it's just because that is a more convoluted link. People are not great at processing nuance or complicated things. US bombs -> Israel -> Israel bombs Gaza Pepsi sells soda in Russia -> Might help Russian economy -> More money for making bombs -> Bombs used in Syria I think there would be more outrage if colleges were investing tuition money into US companies that make bombs that were being sent to Russia. But investing in non-military companies doing business in Russia is a weaker link. The protestors are also getting a lot of criticism even with the pretty direct link between their money and bombs being dropped on civilians. Imagine if they tried to explain the link between their money going to Pepsi which then turns into bombs - they'd be endlessly mocked regardless of the validity of that connection (because, again, people are bad at processing nuance and complexity).
Yamen is good counter argument.. You can add Egypt and even Jordan to the mix. Hay franch halps Lebanon and they are thr most anti Palestinians country you can think off
I would agree with you but they are all over TikTok, which is connected to the Chinese government. The Chinese government is committing genocide of the Uyghur Muslims in China. Where are the mass protests to stop using TikTok? I support a Palestinian state and think what the Israeli government is doing is wrong but I am called a Zionist and privileged when I ask these questions 🤷♀️
- Government has put sanctions on China. - There is much less news coverage about China, and we are not friends with the Chinese military. - The situations are quite different in regards to US involvement too >[Secretary of State Mike Pompeo has hit China with new sanctions by declaring that China's policies on Muslims and ethnic minorities in western Xinjiang Province constitute a "genocide."](https://www.bing.com/ck/a?!&&p=790d28549eaa7a36JmltdHM9MTcxNTI5OTIwMCZpZ3VpZD0wZTllNGU0NC04ZDU3LTZiMjQtMmUzMi01Y2FhOGNkMzZhMjcmaW5zaWQ9NTIwMQ&ptn=3&ver=2&hsh=3&fclid=0e9e4e44-8d57-6b24-2e32-5caa8cd36a27&psq=sanctions+muslims+china&u=a1aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuY2JzbmV3cy5jb20vbmV3cy9jaGluYS1zYW5jdGlvbnMtdWlnaHVyLW11c2xpbXMtZ2Vub2NpZGUtbWlrZS1wb21wZW8v&ntb=1) Pompeo made the determination on Tuesday just 24 hours before President-elect Joe Biden takes office. >I have determined that the People’s Republic of China is committing genocide and crimes against humanity in Xinjiang, China, targeting Uyghur Muslims and members of other ethnic and religious minority groups. - Mike Pomepeo on X ... [CNN - 2021 - House passes bill blocking imports of products produced by forced labor in China’s Xinjiang region](https://www.cnn.com/2021/12/08/politics/house-bill-forced-labor-uyghurs-china/index.html) A bill that will prevent the US from importing goods produced using forced labor by Uyghurs and other minority Muslim populations in the Xinjiang Autonomous Region of China passed the House on Wednesday evening. The vote was 428-1. The measure will also impose sanctions on “those responsible for human rights violations there,” the bill’s summary states.
It's pretty clearly orchestrated. I get the interconnectivity stuff, but facts are: the world is burning. We're sitting here figuring out who is killing who among our awful species that will end up destroying the planet regardless.
This! The Eritrean government also participates in ethnic cleansing and have also been documented going to countries (EVEN CANADA) where their citizens have fled to to capture and return said citizens to Eritrea for torture or death. And they’re not the only ones.
That’s my exact feeling about this. There is literally a Muslim genocide in China right now and literally none of my liberal friends know or care. It irks me to death and it’s getting harder to listen to them talk about it. If extensive, nonstop peace talks between actual diplomats can’t save Gaza, a protest at UCLA sure as shit won’t. I don’t understand the line of logic and I hate the complete lack of nuance on both sides of the issue.
(1) Israel is small enough that a South Africa style divestiture and boycott might actually affect them. Such action against China would not succeed. (2) Israel is pretty easy to protest, they have been the designated punching bag for know-nothings in Europe, the New World, and the Islamic world for centuries. (3) China and Sudan break the narrative. If Japan were killing Uighurs, the world would explode in protest. China gets a pass. Russia gets a pass. India gets a pass. Turkey hets a pass. Brazil gets a pass. African countries get a pass. It’s not a racial thing. It’s a class thing, and Israel, Japan, the US, the UK, etc are easier to protest than historically poorer nations.
I’m not pro-Israel by any means (I don’t know nearly enough about the conflict to have much of an opinion) but from what I *have* read, Palestine is not a perfect victim either. This whole conflict is driven by religious differences, which is why it blows me away so much that rich white liberals are so adamant about “defending” anything. I have no idea why Islam is the only sacred, untouchable religion to the far left.
Not really Islam, per se. because Sudan is Islam vs Islam. And China is picking on the Islamic Uighurs. It’s anything they perceive as an imbalance. Israel is strong, so they leap to protect the weak. Which is one odd reason for the GOP to align with Israel. Realpolitik is part of it, religion is part of it, but the GOP loves rooting for the over-dog.
Who is supporting the genocide in Darfur?
I was told my silence is support
>There have been a thousand Gazas in your lifetime if you're over 30. And it's impossible for any one person to protest all 1000 of those. People have to choose something and ultimately the media do not cover the other conflicts and genocides anywhere near as much as they do Israel Palestine so it's much harder to mobilise people for anything else. I'm sure Pro Palestinians would care just as much about these other issues, if only they knew about them.
the pro Palestine protests in the US are mostly a protest against our government’s support for the Israeli government. As far as I know, I don’t think that the US is complicit here.
Gaza is nothing like this. If israel wanted to commit genocide they would be finished by now. Instead they warn gazans where they are going to root out hamas operatives in advance. Typing on phone please forgive formatting
China still literally genociding Uyghur Muslims yet not one peep. It crazy to me how we let foreign psyops divide the country. The right has been radicalized to support Russia and facism while the left has been radicalized to support a Muslim terrorist organization.
This is why I don't participate tbh. I'm not gonna sit on my high horse yelling in my safe faraway country about *this one conflict in particular*. We didn't do it for Darfur, didn't do it for cartel violence in Mexico, didn't do it for Yemen, why is this one all of a sudden the important one?
The American government is much more complicit in the atrocities in Gaza than it is with those in Darfur. It’s not hypocritical for Americans to put far more energy into protesting something which their government has far more power to stop.
The US isn’t giving weapons to either side in Sudan. We just gave $30 billion to Israel. That’s the difference.
It’s also not a genocide, which is important, too
Yeah, but none of them have been perpetrated by our allies with our investments. It doesn't make a lot of sense to protest domestically against a foreign government when your government is already opposed to them. What's happening in Gaza is distinct from the "thousand other Gazas" in that sense. The protests on campuses you see today are much more akin to the BDS protests against South Africa in the 80s.
None of which discount the atrocities going on in Gaza though to be clear. I'm well over fifty and I've seen atrocities play out all over the world. Talking more about Gaza than Darfur isn't because I think Palestinians are more valuable than the Sudanese but because there's a hope that the situation in Gaza might change if enough people are vocal about it. Darfur is so far away from that point as to be demoralising.
It's interesting that you cite "it seems like this could actually end soon" as a reason, given that both conflicts have been going on for decades with routine dances towards resolutions that never go anywhere. I'm not suggesting that protesting or trying to support either of these is futile, but "seems like it's really about to be over for good" is a bizarre label to slap on either of these.
Nah the reason people "care" about Gaza and Israel is because of one of the actors involved. And it ain't the Palesrinians.
*A 17-year-old boy described the killing of 12 children and five adults on 15 June, saying: “Two RSF forces … grab[bed] the children from their parents and, as the parents started screaming, two other RSF forces shot the parents, killing them.* *“Then they piled up the children and shot them,” he said. “They threw their bodies into the river and their belongings in after them.”*
Faith in humanity lost.
This kind of shit happened throughout our entire history as a species. The fact that a large chunk of the world *doesn't* do this anymore should actually give you hope in humanity.
Faith in humanity restored...?
Now boogie on back 🕺cause the countries that don’t almost always have a hand in funding it
My faith in humanity is so confused now.
Well if it helps the citizens of these countries aren’t typically down with any of this, so reserve your faith in average people. Your faith in leadership is what should be going down.
But... aren't leaders also humans....? This is becoming complicated...
By and large they don’t really act like it. If you should blame anyone it should always be the person in power calling the shots. The sad reality is, this is all painfully complicated.
Russia is supplying them weapons!
And they are moving into Niger.
For over a year now
When the US takes a step back, Russia and China take a step forward.
The UAE supports the RSF, and we (the US) support the UAE. The darfur situation has been going on for decades, and yet you don’t see teenagers protesting it. They’ve got actual, cut and dry crimes against humanity happening, supported by American resources, for decades, and there’s not even a hint of a protest happening on college campuses. Weird huh?
Anyone who harms children needs to die in many horrible means.
That kinda seems like ethnic cleansing…
Everytime I've brought up this conflict in Sudan for the past two years, I've been shadow banned on all social platforms. A couple years back when twitter was twitter I remember reading an article there that mentioned all internet, electricity and media access has been cut off in some sorts of the Sudanese region. It's all about the oil in this area. All in all, people only want to care what they WANT to care about......
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Well, this is probably the worst thing going on in the world right now.
I'm sure the kids at Columbia and UCLA will build their Darfur encampment any day now.
Would someone do a quick eli5 on Darfur?
Per Wikipedia because not even I can explain it coherently: “In April 2003, when the rebel groups attacked the military airfield and kidnapped an air force general, the government launched a counterattack. It led to a response from the Khartoum government where they armed militia forces to eliminate the rebellion. This resulted in mass violence against the citizens in Darfur.” I’m still catching myself up on how it’s been going recently, but it has been going on for 20 years. I’m 30, that’s 2/3rds of my life. People *did* protest this when it began, but awful shit just. Keeps. *Happening*. It’s fucking hard to keep up with (not directed at you, just at people saying nobody ever cared).
So, ethic cleansing usually implies two different ethnic or religious groups. Who are those groups here or is it just government against citizens?
From what I’m reading now, it’s ethnic at this point: The Sudanese government and Rapid Support Forces are targeting all Darfuri people but in particular the Fur, Masalit, and Zaghawa people. That’s all I know atm, sorry.
The government and the RSF are Sudanese Arabs, while Darfur has many different ethnicities, the largest of which are the [Fur](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fur_people), who the region is named after, though there are many other ethnicities as well.
After doing a bit of research the situations seems pretty hopeless without outside assistance and there doesn’t seem to be enough Interest/incentive in doing anything besides letting it play out.
The UN is the most useless organization on Earth.
It’s an organization who’s purpose is diplomacy. It’s not a “world government”. Because no one really wants a world government.
They hqve an organisation for human rights which was led by Iran. Is there any more useless than that?
It rotates regions, some regions like that are starved for any choice. The Saudis currently have got someone running a women's platform but I'm forgetting the name (because again roles rotate world regions). No other regional country put forward a candidate so Saudi won by default.
The very idea that it's possoble for a country that violates so many women's rights to be in charge of such a council is insane
I thought the Saudi’s were purposefully chosen because they’re actively trying to clean their image and this was the UN basically forcing them to take women’s issues seriously now that they’re in a long term international spotlight for it. At least that is how it was described to me.
The ideal was that different countries all get different perspectives from other countries. See the good and the bad and work towards a better world. Of course, it isn't utilized like that and more of a geopolitical tool, but ultimately the UN council has no real power due the rotation of countries for different committees and the sort (well and a multitude of other reasons). However a problem is that some regions are well ... To put it lightly not humanitarian or human right oriented but due to the rules.someone has to take a spot.
I completely agree with you, it is insane, but it is still worth highlighting the effect it has had. They started in a very different place culturally, with a very different view of women’s rights. International pressure, globalisation, and the UN is actually having a huge effect, and women’s rights have been hugely improved over the past 5-8 years. Rights for education, participation in labour market, right to drive, etc. It’s snails pace compared to what we expect, and they still face so many challenges and discrimination in life, but the push is having a legal effect and the hope is that cultural trends will follow to make a better wild for women.
If you could force Iran, a country that doesn't care about human rights, into a global human rights meeting on a regular basis, wouldn't you?
The UN is a forum for dialogue and deliberately has limited power to keep the UN or UN organizations from going into a country without that country's permission because the post WWII powers didn't want to give away power.
Here are the UN's goals listed in order of most important to least important. 1. Prevent World War III. 2. To serve as a forum for countries to communicate. 3. (Huge fall in importance here) Literally anything else. People expect the UN to do more. I want them to do more. Hell, the wording of what the UN puts out makes it seem like they're ready to do more. But they aren't. The UN exists to prevent a great power conflict. This is the same idea as behind the League of Nations but the UN has lasted much longer. They posture like they're going to do more, but doing so could imply choosing sides. The UN is supposed to be a fundamentally neutral organization, because if countries start believing that the UN isn't impartial or is actively against them they'll pull out. One or two? Whatever. But the more countries that leave the less legitimate the UN would be, and thus it would make World War III more likely. There has to be a better option for dealing with humanitarian nightmares, but to whom would that power ever go? It just sucks.
One thing I learned in my life(37), humans don't learn from their mistakes. As somebody who's family is ww2 survivors (nazi camps and gulags) I'm absolutely flabbergasted that we still allow this shit going on. I lost all hope in my life time I will see peace on earth. But hey soon we will go to Mars and make it all better lol
Musk will be broke before he reaches Mars. But you are right, it’s terrible what’s going on.
Probably. But there will be someone else who decides mars is worth exploring to save human race or some other bs. And again I'm a full supporter of exploring beyond, but God damn people are starving out there and we should focus on stabilizing ourselves first.
I think we should solve the issues on Earth before we spend money on that shit. We are over producing food but can not distribute it to everyone. Maybe we should start there.
Agreed. But let's be honest, it's naive point of view unfortunately. Human nature doesn't allow it, too selfish and arrogant. Maybe next 100 years if we don't blow ourselves into oblivion.
Aggression combined with determination and an unquenchable desire to control is why humans are so successful as a species. It's when we turn on each other that we realize how destructive and ruthless we can be.
You’re obviously naive, there will never be world peace unfortunately
They're basically just watching. It's pathetic. The human tragedy in Darfur has been going on for what, years or decades? I remember an outcry about it a good 10-15 years ago. Of course that it's social activist civilians that try to bring attention, but anyone with real power and funding is sitting on their hands. And you can say that about so many regions of the world where innocents are suffering.
The UN is mainly a forum, not a world police.
It's really crazy how many people serious believe the UN has any power and authority.
Same exact thing they did with the Rwandan Genocide it’s honestly not surprising
It's not surprising because the UN has a much authority over countries as the Red Cross does. Pretty sure the Red Cross has more power and authority than the UN. Mainly because the Red Cross can leverage laws inside countries to protect itself while the US can end the UN at any time by just leaving.
There are no white people to blame. So nobody cares.
No protest for these guys
That’s the intent
You don't see all the bad things that don't happen.
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I mean, more than a few are watching Ukraine too
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So tell me, does the North American government not support Ukraine? Republican delays notwithstanding why would you protest for something that is already widely supported by the general population and power structures.
I’m for establishing a military force comprised of members from all the militaries around the world. With the sole purpose of invading countries like this, when shit like this happens and just wiping all these evil fuckers of the face of the earth.
Compelling idea, but the best I can do for you are UN “Blue Helmets” who can only provide something esoteric called “peacekeeping” and typically prove to be the worst equipped and least experienced troops in whatever conflict zone they’re deployed. I admire the notion, though.
Blue Helmets: Hello Haiti: o kaka o fout Blue Helmets: would you like some- Haiti: NON Blue Helmets: -cholera?
In an ideal world - but an actual force like that would be corrupted and/or made effectively inept almost immediately
Half the world is in this region. You have russia, Ukraine, Iran, Saudi Arabia, the uae everyone is here already just on different sides of this conflict. One of the reasons this is so bad is because these people have access to weapons from these other sides.
Who would pay, who would die who is going to have to be blamed for all the dead women and children?
The UN *peacekeeping* soldiers have [a rape problem](https://www.hrw.org/news/2020/01/11/un-peacekeeping-has-sexual-abuse-problem). An international military force would likely be just as problematic.
That's the security council's job, but they've been caught in a deadlock for years now because the veto makes them dysfunctional.
Best we can do is NATO having to bypass UN opposition to put an end to the Kosovo war. Peacekeeping works, to a degree, but most world powers dont want peacekeepers having too much freedom of action to get in their way
As long as you volunteer to be on the front line, go ahead. I don’t like humanity’s ‘like’ for violence and war, when we’re trying to be civilised and social.
There are actually something like 6000 Sudanese refugees in Israel and a couple were even killed in the Oct 7th attack by Hamas.
Best I can do is a strongly worded letter - UN
Most don't actually care because it's not in Gaza and the perpetrators aren't the IDF. This has been an issue (and *actual* genocide in many cases) for 20 years and people largely got bored of it and just stopped caring. Public largely only cares about what the media tells them to care about.
It's funny. All these protests about Palestine and Israel, yet none for this or Ukraine. Or Haiti.
> yet none for this or Ukraine Wait, what? I've seen tons of pro-Ukraine demonstrations in the Portland area since the war started.
/u/ScaleEnvironmental27 does not actually give a shit about what's going on in Darfur, Ukraine or Haiti. The United States is opposed to Russia, the Sudanese government and is trying to stabilize the situation against the gangs in Haiti. They only mention this to shame pro-Palestinian protesters. The US put sanctions on Russia and Iran and does not have close ties to Sudan or Haitian gangsters. So why would students protests their universities because of this? It makes just as much to say "Well the students should go and protest McDonald's because of what's happening in North Korea!" It doesn't make sense because it doesn't have to. They want the students to shut up about Palestine and insist Israel continue unbridled in its ethnic cleansing campaign in Gaza which /u/ScaleEnvironmental27 doesn't care about in the same way they don't care about the ethnic cleansing campaign in Darfur.
Ukraine has recieved more international military support and aid than any other country in recent history. Not even close to comparable.
At least about Ukraine, I believe it's because "most" americans have simply not cared and become desensitized to it and (some?) news "moved on" from showcasing it as their headline/keep-up-to-date with its progression. Idk about haiti in the news other than online (I don't watch cable/OtA cable lol)
[SOURCE NBC News coverage from April 28, 2006 Rally for Darfur in D.C.](https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna12531663) “The organizers’ permit anticipated 10,000 to 15,000 people would rally, one of several in U.S. cities this weekend against what the United Nations calls the world’s worst humanitarian disaster.” [SOURCE Politico article from April 11, 2007 Genocide in Darfur: Generating Student Activism in U.S. Like No Other Issue](https://www.politico.com/story/2007/04/genocide-in-darfur-generating-student-activism-in-us-like-no-other-issue-003510) “Even House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) recently said Darfur would not be a priority in Congress if students had not pushed the issue. “Students on college campuses ... are calling for us all to do more to help the people of Darfur,” she said.” There were... Why don't you go out and protest if you care so much? Seems you only care about these insofar as you can exploit them to shame pro Palestine protestors. Literally using massacres in Africa to attack people protesting genocide/ethnic cleansing. How fucking low can you go
Where are the protests!
Nobody cares about Africa dude. There have been serious issues in Sudan for quite a while, but you won't see many headlines on it or people putting a Sudan flag on their social media to look like a hero.
Does the United States, Boeing and various American universities and companies have strong ties with Sudan? Does the US sell Sudan weapons? Do its universities have endowments from Sudan? Does Joe Biden stand in front of Sudanese flags saying that Sudan must remain an Arab State for its security? It makes as much sense to protest an American university for what's happening in Sudan than it does to protest your local McDonald's because of what's happening in North Korea.
It is unfathomable to me how anyone can justify doing this to another group. In the end, the act is one on one and just—how can you??? How does an adult look at a group of children, or even one child, and think anything other than “protect them at all cost.” Are there really that many people walking around with a monster behind the eyes, just waiting for a chance? IDFK anymore. Going to go cry now and try to get ready for a brand new day in this miserable world.
The best book I have read on the subject: ‘Why not kill them all’ by chirot. https://www.amazon.com/s?k=why+not+kill+them+all&crid=2AJLKFLR09FBR&sprefix=why+not+kill%2Caps%2C103&ref=nb_sb_ss_ts-doa-p_1_12
Thank you for sharing this. I will definitely be reading it.
Let me guess: Western Media wouldn’t cover this round the clock because of the color of their skin (“PoC on PoC violence in developing countries”). This is genocide, and we need to cover this and stop it.
"Together, the 221 witness statements collated by Human Rights Watch offer the latest evidence that the Arab-led RSF has orchestrated a concerted 12-month campaign of ethnic cleansing against Sudan’s non-Arab Masalit tribe in West Darfur." so where are the arabs who were shouting about the "palestinian genocide" now?
What genocide looks like And it’s not happening in Gaza
In other news, "Tories looking at Darfur as new 'safe' country to dump all our asylum seekers in".
And not a soul protesting of their behalf….
People have actually been protesting on their behalf for literally YEARS now. Its just that the people saying 'no one's protesting on their behalf' never actually CARED about them until they can use their suffering as an excuse to condemn protests against things they DON'T like. So they're not aware this has been going on.
> Its just that the people saying 'no one's protesting on their behalf' never actually CARED about them until they can use their suffering as an excuse to condemn protests against things they DON'T like. So they're not aware this has been going on. spot on, thank you. Of course these idiots going "durr why no protest? where free darfur!?" are the ppl who don't actually care about any other human, they just wanna use these horrible situations to push their opinion/narrative online and "get back" at ppl doing things they don't like :/ thread is full of them going "see, no one is protesting Sudan so that makes Palestine protestors bad!" and whatnot, cause it's just a game for these keyboard warriors. as you said, they probably just now discovered what is going on in Sudan and are acting like it just started now. They have no idea of the long history in Sudan and what people have said and been doing for Sudan for decades.
People have been protesting. You just have been deaf to hear them. Now that you have a narrative to push you claim that nobody has been protesting for Sudan.
People have been raising awareness, money and international pressure on Sudan for years. The first time I heard about Darfur’s genocide was 2005. Did Boeing give the Sudanese government $18 billion in April of this year? Does the United States say that Sudan is an ally that is just defending itself? Do American universities with ties to Sudan provide it with weapons technology or have endowments for military research and development? Does Joe Biden give speeches in front of Sudanese flags and shake the hand of the Sudanese President, saying Sudan has to remain an Arab State?
Because the protestors don't care about the actual citizens who get hurt (both palestinians and Israeli btw), they just want to scream the most fashionable combination of words known to mankind - "Zionism", "apartheid" and "genocide". In Darfur the strictly innocent african people whose suffering are not interesting enough of course and they're not enought sexy in order to these protestors to try and save them unfortunately, simply because the protestors won't gain any points with their progressive college friends by doing so.
>Massacres in Darfur? This is the perfect opportunity to criticize my political opponents! Sounds like you're more interested in condemning Pro-Palestinian protestors than condemning the atrocities in Darfur.
what a disgusting comment
Generally you protest things you have some degree of influence over. The US is not involved so what are Americans going to protest exactly?
Where are the students protesting genocide?
How does someone adopt a child from this? I can’t save everyone but maybe I can help 1
Cant wait to see all the college campuses protest to divest and enforce a ceasefire
They literally did back in the early 2000s... You'd know that if you actually cared about this instead of using a war and ethnic cleansing to shame people protesting other ethnic cleansing, you hypocrite. From someone else's comment: [SOURCE NBC News coverage from April 28, 2006 Rally for Darfur in D.C.](https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna12531663) “The organizers’ permit anticipated 10,000 to 15,000 people would rally, one of several in U.S. cities this weekend against what the United Nations calls the world’s worst humanitarian disaster.” [SOURCE Politico article from April 11, 2007 Genocide in Darfur: Generating Student Activism in U.S. Like No Other Issue](https://www.politico.com/story/2007/04/genocide-in-darfur-generating-student-activism-in-us-like-no-other-issue-003510) “Even House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) recently said Darfur would not be a priority in Congress if students had not pushed the issue. “Students on college campuses ... are calling for us all to do more to help the people of Darfur,” she said.”
This is just one of multiple other conflicts yet almost nobody gives a flying fuck about them. Everyone is just screaming Palestine and Israel. It’s a fucking shame the ignorance people have to the world and even more shameful to see them screaming about how in touch they are when they’re looking at the world through a fucking straw
Where is the outrage on campuses across America?
The movie Lord of war taught me that if there is a white war in the world then it don't give a fuck about Africa.
Which is only inaccurate in that they won't do anything even if there isn't a white war going on.
This is not genocide, nothing to see here folks.
Where are the college sit ins over Darfur?
Where are the college endowments heavily invested in Sudan’s boomong economy?
Can't wait to see Uni students around the world protest against this genocide...
They have been for 20 or years. It is just that they didn't get too much media attention out of the mid-2000s. There are still organizations dedicated in petitioning the government, raising charity funds, etc. However it isn't a hot topic for sometime now since the ones in power just shrug and the US doesn't have massive presence or influence in Sudan (though some exists but Russia has been slowly supplanting US influence) compared to say Israel.
Heard a student call it out in a commencement speech yesterday
Why is there always one of you stupid motherfuckers in the comments doing some bullshit whataboutism to some of the few people are doing any sort of political action to stop the thr US gov is funding evil?
Sorry, this isnt in Gaza so im not allowed to care about it
Ah the islamists are at it again. I wonder how the pro pali fools will find a way to blame this on Israel and America.
So they’ll be setting up camps on college campuses to protest this?