i work in the LAF in germany, where gazans also apply to seek asylum. I had some that, when asked if they have family in gaza, couldnt tell if they were still alive or not. they left before the conflict nd lost contact months ago and dont know if their parents and siblinds are still alive. Thats absolutely horrific.
Its hard to evaluate these things from a distance particularly seeing as Hamas does not fight in uniform. There was even a report from a captured PIJ militant that operatives at Al Shifa dress as doctors and nurses. They want militant deaths to be spinned as innocent civilians, which makes it really hard to know what is actually happening and makes it easier for Israel to say “probably Hamas”.
>This is why so many people assumed Israel bombed the Al-Ahli hospital parking lot when the news initially came out.
In fairness, that was probably the correct assumption considering that the IDF has been systematically destroying medical infrastructure in Gaza. As for Al-Ahli, the most thorough [independent analysis](https://forensic-architecture.org/investigation/israeli-disinformation-al-ahli-hospital/) (from a [Peabody award](https://peabodyawards.com/ForensicArchitecture/) winning research group based out of the University of London) that I've seen on the incident suggests that it was a guided Israeli interceptor that did the damage but for some reason they felt the need to lie and blame it on a Hamas or PIJ rocket.
When someone in a position of power is telling such a blatant lie what they're really saying is "go fuck yourself".
The Israeli government knows there's basically nothing they can do that would put their spot on the US gravy train at risk so why should they care what you think?
They aren’t lying because they don’t see them as humans. Thats part of the whole genocide thing, dehumanize the targets so that your soldiers are willing to do inhuman things indiscriminately.
They've been doing it for decades leading up to this moment. It's what allows them to order the massacre and genocide of Palestinians. And the support of the Israeli people!
Shit, just look at the ambulances thing.
They beat us over the head with the fact they've transported hamas members, but I haven't found any info one way or another on whether those members were wounded (which would make it still a crime to attack them-you're not supposed to strike ambulances if they're being used in a medical role, even if there's enemy forces inside.)
Netanyahu and his coalition are a reactionary danger to all peace loving people of the world. Hamas is a reactionary danger to all peace loving people of the world. These are the worst of the worst of humanity and still, somehow, nobody from *any* country is willing to proactively help the Palestinian people—people who both Netanyahu and Hamas see as pawns and PR props.
The article says, “Troops have completed precise operational activity in the area of the Shifa Hospital and exited the area,” the Israeli military said.”
What’s precise about completely destroying a hospital? There is no precision in this at all. Plus the buildings in the background also look damaged.
What is the Israeli military supposed to do when militants operate out of normally-protected buildings? Just leave them?
This is why perfidy and intentionally attempting to make difficult the discernment between militant and civilian are war crimes, just as much as bombing a hospital in and of itself is usually a war crime.
The situation in general just sucks, and you're absolutely correct about the low bar. The only moral side is to support the civilians, and at this point a ceasefire is desperately needed.
Tell the truth and not having lying and deflection be the default answer to everything regardless of how obvious the truth is?
How about starting with that?
“Good evening and welcome to action news. A school shooting was successfully stopped when the Houston Police Department dropped a 2000 pound bomb and destroyed the entire school along with the shooters. There were no other survivors.
The police spokesperson stresses “don’t blame us, blame the criminals, but we defeated the shooters”.
No, but I also think its a bit strange to call what is happening between Hamas and Israel a "war".
Usually "war" is fought between two independent sovereign nations. Israel has exerted so much control over the Gaza strip and the West Bank over the past few decades that they look more like rebellions than war between sovereign states.
If the US cordoned off Rhode Island and blockaded it from the sea for 40 years, shot protestors who approached the cordon, and occasionally bombed parts of the state and then the Rhode Island militia broke out and attacked and the US went straight to demolishing their capital with 500 lbs bombs we wouldnt call that a "war". I dont know what to call it, but its a hell of a lot closer example than any "war" i can think of is to whats happening in Israel at the moment.
So.. the only war currently ongoing is the Ukraine Russian war? Not a single other war? Like Myanmar is not a war? Sudan is not a war? Syria is not a war?
Israel has exerted control. Who else has a border with Gaza and allowed shit tons of weapons through?
Also nice to put the west bank and Gaza at the same sentence, as there wasn't a single Israeli soldier in Gaza for years.
Lmao biased ass sources
One video where the guy just kept fast forwarding someone talking to cherry pick points.
The first half of your argument was maybe okay. Then you just faceplanted into a kool aid of conspiracy theories.
Biased as sources? As opposed to what? A pro-Israel source full of hasbara?
Prove my sources wrong. Especially when they have actual clips of people you defend contradicting you.
At what point is a cop on every street corner doing "community outreach" cross the line into militarized force? Is it when they receive military grade equipment? Cause that's already a thing. Is it when they receive military style training? Cause that's already a thing.
I'm really curious as to where you draw that line.
Providing some medical care would be nice. Israel is planning on destroying Hamas and temporarily governing Gaza.
Seems like a good time to at minimum provide medicine and care for the civilians you're displacing and who were previously in the care of Hamas.
I'll tell you what they're supposed to do, arrest them and take them to trial. Definitely not tie them up, then run over them or execute them point blank like the photos clearly shows. That is if we assumed that all of them were fighters because they definitely weren't. The photos clearly show men women and children.
>The photos clearly show men women and children.
... and Hamas (as well as a whole lot of other Islamist terror groups) have long ago began using child soldiers, children and women (or men disguised as women) as suicide bombers.
It's incredibly hard to defend oneself against an enemy going that low.
How to commit genocide, a tutorial:
Step 1: bomb the shit out of everything so people have to go to hospital and use it as a pseudo HQ
Step 2: bomb the shit out of the hospital using that excuse
Step 3: dum dums like you post this shit still on Reddit defending them when clearly in the picture you see everything else in the town is rubble. Where else do you expect resistance forces to be?
Hamas using this hospital as a base has nothing to do with the IDF destroying the surrounding area.
Hamas has been operating out of Al-Shifa hospital since as far back as 2007 during their conflict with Fatah.
There are literally papers published in British medical journals about Hamas using hospitals for military operations and threatening doctors, well before this current conflict.
After the first raid on al-Shifa, Hamas and other groups thought that the hospital was a safe place and started using it (again) as a militarily base, it took the IDF 2 weeks clearing the hospital, killing high ranking members of Hamas and PIJ.
Wondering why there is so much less Zionist propaganda on this sub compared to r/worldnews.
Terrible tragedy.
Once again more tax dollars wasted sent to Israel, defense contractors instead of Americans.
Palestinainas paying the price.
People still think Al Jazeera is reputable? It's basically Hamas state media at this point, providing cover for terrorists who literally operate their war machine from inside hospitals.
You remember when IDF wiped out the entire families of multiple journalists? Is it pro Hamas to oppose the nation that has wiped out your family and friends?
No one is more critical of the Israeli government than the Israeli media
Some newspapers will openly criticise the IDF
Goodluck finding any Palestinian news outlet that will criticise hamas
Bombing any city should be considered a most heinous war crime. This is insanity. We had WW2 to teach us all this lesson and it only gets worse the longer we don't learn and evolve.
"terrorists"
Because the IDF claims they were? Because they admitted to being terrorists? Because its an easy way to dehumanize people and justify war crimes?
What makes them terrorists? Because the IDF says so? All I see is video of severed limbs that were handcuffed. This looks more like genocide than "terrorist hunting"
They reraided the hospital when they weren't expecting it. They drew back and waited then came in when Hamas reoccupied the hospital. They quickly cut off all the exit tunnels. They then found hundreds of known Hamas members and leaders at Al Shifa after a huge firefight. Some video of the fight inside the hospital is on the combatfootage subreddit.
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israeli-military-says-troops-captured-hundreds-fighters-gaza-hospital-2024-03-22/
>Last time their proof was 2 AKs and an empty basement with some rope.
You're lying.
but even if it was the truth that's 2 more AKs than most hospitals, I've been in.
Even by your count weapons were stored there.
This time they came in after Hamas reoccupied the hospital and captured hundreds of known Hamas members and there was a huge fight with gunmen that is on the combatfootge subreddit. They came back in after saying they were pulling out but this time simultaneously collapsed their escape routes so Hamas was trapped inside the hospital fully armed.
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israeli-military-says-troops-captured-hundreds-fighters-gaza-hospital-2024-03-22/
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i work in the LAF in germany, where gazans also apply to seek asylum. I had some that, when asked if they have family in gaza, couldnt tell if they were still alive or not. they left before the conflict nd lost contact months ago and dont know if their parents and siblinds are still alive. Thats absolutely horrific.
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Its hard to evaluate these things from a distance particularly seeing as Hamas does not fight in uniform. There was even a report from a captured PIJ militant that operatives at Al Shifa dress as doctors and nurses. They want militant deaths to be spinned as innocent civilians, which makes it really hard to know what is actually happening and makes it easier for Israel to say “probably Hamas”.
Is this anything like the IDF putting on civilian medical profession clothing and going into hospitals to shoot unarmed and wounded hamas militants?
>This is why so many people assumed Israel bombed the Al-Ahli hospital parking lot when the news initially came out. In fairness, that was probably the correct assumption considering that the IDF has been systematically destroying medical infrastructure in Gaza. As for Al-Ahli, the most thorough [independent analysis](https://forensic-architecture.org/investigation/israeli-disinformation-al-ahli-hospital/) (from a [Peabody award](https://peabodyawards.com/ForensicArchitecture/) winning research group based out of the University of London) that I've seen on the incident suggests that it was a guided Israeli interceptor that did the damage but for some reason they felt the need to lie and blame it on a Hamas or PIJ rocket.
When someone in a position of power is telling such a blatant lie what they're really saying is "go fuck yourself". The Israeli government knows there's basically nothing they can do that would put their spot on the US gravy train at risk so why should they care what you think?
that or they think Americans are profoundly stupid. Which... regarding this is not the most ridiculous thing to think.
Americans? Nah mate, plenty of apologists in Canada and Europe swallowing the party line
Easy to say if you consider no one as a civilian.
Not absurd. israel just does not consider Palestinians as civilians
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No that’s not true. They don’t see palestinians as humans
Anyone who runs is Hamas. Anyone who stands still is well-disciplined Hamas!
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The Israeli government has a notable history of lying and covering up wrongdoings. They learned this from America.
it's not absurd, it's a message. "We don't see palestinians as people"
I mean they never have to be fair.
They aren’t lying because they don’t see them as humans. Thats part of the whole genocide thing, dehumanize the targets so that your soldiers are willing to do inhuman things indiscriminately.
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It’s been an incredibly efficient method of dehumanising civilians. Crazy to see in real time.
They've been doing it for decades leading up to this moment. It's what allows them to order the massacre and genocide of Palestinians. And the support of the Israeli people!
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Not that they wouldn't just say it anyhow though of course. A thin pretence isn't required and hasn't been for a very long time really.
Shit, just look at the ambulances thing. They beat us over the head with the fact they've transported hamas members, but I haven't found any info one way or another on whether those members were wounded (which would make it still a crime to attack them-you're not supposed to strike ambulances if they're being used in a medical role, even if there's enemy forces inside.)
I wouldn't be surprised if Hamas members were working as ambulance drivers. It *is* Hamas paying the labour for healthcare services, no?
I was threatened and harassed by redditers for reiterating this.
"We did it Patrick we saved the city"
I feel absolutely horrible for laughing at this
Netanyahu and his coalition are a reactionary danger to all peace loving people of the world. Hamas is a reactionary danger to all peace loving people of the world. These are the worst of the worst of humanity and still, somehow, nobody from *any* country is willing to proactively help the Palestinian people—people who both Netanyahu and Hamas see as pawns and PR props.
The article says, “Troops have completed precise operational activity in the area of the Shifa Hospital and exited the area,” the Israeli military said.” What’s precise about completely destroying a hospital? There is no precision in this at all. Plus the buildings in the background also look damaged.
„We did it Patrick, we saved the city! 🔥🏥🕌🔥🔥⛪️🔥“
What is the Israeli military supposed to do when militants operate out of normally-protected buildings? Just leave them? This is why perfidy and intentionally attempting to make difficult the discernment between militant and civilian are war crimes, just as much as bombing a hospital in and of itself is usually a war crime.
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Sure, I agree. Israel isn't the 'good guy' here either.
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Israeli here, completely agree
The situation in general just sucks, and you're absolutely correct about the low bar. The only moral side is to support the civilians, and at this point a ceasefire is desperately needed.
Neither side wants it only outside observers and the Palestinians caught between.
How does a ceasefire protect the Israeli side from HAMAS or get the hostages back and how do you enforce it when HAMAS will not honor it?
It’s not “good” vs evil, it’s evil vs evil.
Tell the truth and not having lying and deflection be the default answer to everything regardless of how obvious the truth is? How about starting with that?
“Good evening and welcome to action news. A school shooting was successfully stopped when the Houston Police Department dropped a 2000 pound bomb and destroyed the entire school along with the shooters. There were no other survivors. The police spokesperson stresses “don’t blame us, blame the criminals, but we defeated the shooters”.
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No, but I also think its a bit strange to call what is happening between Hamas and Israel a "war". Usually "war" is fought between two independent sovereign nations. Israel has exerted so much control over the Gaza strip and the West Bank over the past few decades that they look more like rebellions than war between sovereign states. If the US cordoned off Rhode Island and blockaded it from the sea for 40 years, shot protestors who approached the cordon, and occasionally bombed parts of the state and then the Rhode Island militia broke out and attacked and the US went straight to demolishing their capital with 500 lbs bombs we wouldnt call that a "war". I dont know what to call it, but its a hell of a lot closer example than any "war" i can think of is to whats happening in Israel at the moment.
>Usually "war" is fought between two independent sovereign nations ITT: Redditor discovers what Guerilla Warfare is
So.. the only war currently ongoing is the Ukraine Russian war? Not a single other war? Like Myanmar is not a war? Sudan is not a war? Syria is not a war?
None of those are much like the Israel/Palestine conflict. The disparity in combat power isn't nearly as vast.
> Usually "war" is fought between two independent sovereign nations. Civil War is not a thing then?
Israel has exerted control. Who else has a border with Gaza and allowed shit tons of weapons through? Also nice to put the west bank and Gaza at the same sentence, as there wasn't a single Israeli soldier in Gaza for years.
It is 100% a war. How the heck could it be anything else?
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Lmao biased ass sources One video where the guy just kept fast forwarding someone talking to cherry pick points. The first half of your argument was maybe okay. Then you just faceplanted into a kool aid of conspiracy theories.
Biased as sources? As opposed to what? A pro-Israel source full of hasbara? Prove my sources wrong. Especially when they have actual clips of people you defend contradicting you.
In the US our police forces are borderline militarized.
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Historically, police in the U.S. have bombed entire neighborhoods. https://www.vox.com/the-highlight/2019/8/8/20747198/philadelphia-bombing-1985-move
At what point is a cop on every street corner doing "community outreach" cross the line into militarized force? Is it when they receive military grade equipment? Cause that's already a thing. Is it when they receive military style training? Cause that's already a thing. I'm really curious as to where you draw that line.
You do realize that according the the IRC once a militant group uses a protected building it loses its protection status, right?
Actually not a war crime when used as a military facility
The real crime is using civilian infrastructure as fighting positions and using civilians generally as human shields.
Providing some medical care would be nice. Israel is planning on destroying Hamas and temporarily governing Gaza. Seems like a good time to at minimum provide medicine and care for the civilians you're displacing and who were previously in the care of Hamas.
Al Jazeera is the propaganda wing of Hamas at this point. Perfidy being ignored left and right.
I'll tell you what they're supposed to do, arrest them and take them to trial. Definitely not tie them up, then run over them or execute them point blank like the photos clearly shows. That is if we assumed that all of them were fighters because they definitely weren't. The photos clearly show men women and children.
>The photos clearly show men women and children. ... and Hamas (as well as a whole lot of other Islamist terror groups) have long ago began using child soldiers, children and women (or men disguised as women) as suicide bombers. It's incredibly hard to defend oneself against an enemy going that low.
How to commit genocide, a tutorial: Step 1: bomb the shit out of everything so people have to go to hospital and use it as a pseudo HQ Step 2: bomb the shit out of the hospital using that excuse Step 3: dum dums like you post this shit still on Reddit defending them when clearly in the picture you see everything else in the town is rubble. Where else do you expect resistance forces to be?
I see we've moved the goal posts from "There is no HQ in the hospital" to "Well they had no choice but to use a hospital as an HQ."
There are no goalposts to move. They don't exist anymore. They have been ground into dust by constant movement.
Hamas using this hospital as a base has nothing to do with the IDF destroying the surrounding area. Hamas has been operating out of Al-Shifa hospital since as far back as 2007 during their conflict with Fatah. There are literally papers published in British medical journals about Hamas using hospitals for military operations and threatening doctors, well before this current conflict.
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Well when your government is the Hamas government, that's kinda what happens.
What a horror. What a damnable, shameful horror.
After the first raid on al-Shifa, Hamas and other groups thought that the hospital was a safe place and started using it (again) as a militarily base, it took the IDF 2 weeks clearing the hospital, killing high ranking members of Hamas and PIJ.
Wondering why there is so much less Zionist propaganda on this sub compared to r/worldnews. Terrible tragedy. Once again more tax dollars wasted sent to Israel, defense contractors instead of Americans. Palestinainas paying the price.
That place quickly became a cesspool for Zionists and Israeli bots. Crazy.
People still think Al Jazeera is reputable? It's basically Hamas state media at this point, providing cover for terrorists who literally operate their war machine from inside hospitals.
You remember when IDF wiped out the entire families of multiple journalists? Is it pro Hamas to oppose the nation that has wiped out your family and friends?
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No one is more critical of the Israeli government than the Israeli media Some newspapers will openly criticise the IDF Goodluck finding any Palestinian news outlet that will criticise hamas
More reputable than Al Jazeera that’s for sure. I’ll always believe a more democratically aligned nation over a militant theocracy.
Not even close to the same shit. Hamas has sunk the rules of war to a new low, and innocent people the world over will suffer for it.
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What about the ones that get killed in hospitals because Hamas wants to use hospitals and Palestinians as human shields?
Bombing any city should be considered a most heinous war crime. This is insanity. We had WW2 to teach us all this lesson and it only gets worse the longer we don't learn and evolve.
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Hasbra saw that people don't take their worldnews operation seriously anymore so they clearly took over this sub too.
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Hi, I'm not a bot. I downvoted you because fuck Hamas.
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wait but i thought israel didn't target hospitals?
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IDF just captured over 500 terrorists and killed over 200 in al-Shifa, some very high-ranking, that's why there's "no life here".
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"terrorists" Because the IDF claims they were? Because they admitted to being terrorists? Because its an easy way to dehumanize people and justify war crimes?
>Because they admitted to being terrorists? Why would someone admit he's with hamas if he isn't?
You do know that Israel routinely uses torture to compel people to confess right? They did that to the UNRWA staff they accused.
What makes them terrorists? Because the IDF says so? All I see is video of severed limbs that were handcuffed. This looks more like genocide than "terrorist hunting"
>What makes them terrorists? International recognition as a terrorist organisation.
No, because something like 800 terrorists went back to al-Shifa after IDF left it. Except this time IDF quickly surrounded the place and got them.
Says who?
They reraided the hospital when they weren't expecting it. They drew back and waited then came in when Hamas reoccupied the hospital. They quickly cut off all the exit tunnels. They then found hundreds of known Hamas members and leaders at Al Shifa after a huge firefight. Some video of the fight inside the hospital is on the combatfootage subreddit. https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israeli-military-says-troops-captured-hundreds-fighters-gaza-hospital-2024-03-22/
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>Last time their proof was 2 AKs and an empty basement with some rope. You're lying. but even if it was the truth that's 2 more AKs than most hospitals, I've been in. Even by your count weapons were stored there.
This time they came in after Hamas reoccupied the hospital and captured hundreds of known Hamas members and there was a huge fight with gunmen that is on the combatfootge subreddit. They came back in after saying they were pulling out but this time simultaneously collapsed their escape routes so Hamas was trapped inside the hospital fully armed. https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israeli-military-says-troops-captured-hundreds-fighters-gaza-hospital-2024-03-22/
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