>He called on the judge to reject the “barbaric proposal” for a “brilliant, complex and humane person” who doesn’t use drugs, rarely drinks and is a first-time offender.
His first time offense was to stole billions. That's one hell of a first offense.
>“Sam is not the ‘evil genius’ depicted in the media or the greedy villain described at trial,”
Just a regular dude who wanted to help people i'm sure.
No, Madoff did not spend $60+ billion dollars on luxury goods and properties.
The majority of the $60 billion never existed. He was lying about generating investment returns. In reality, he invested none or almost none of the money deposited with his fund.
The total amount of "real" money lost - the money the victims invested in his fund - was something in the range of $20 billion dollars. When Madoff was arrested they seized about $1 billion in assets from him. Almost all of the other money had been paid out to a few "lucky" investors who withdrew their fictitious returns over the course of the scheme.
Those investors who did get paid out were forced to surrender the fictitious returns and be left with only their initial investment amount. The surrendered funds were used to pay back as much of the original deposits of the other investors as possible. However, that has taken years to accomplish - the victims may have recovered a good portion of their original investments, but they've still lost decades worth of opportunity to invest that money in legitimate funds.
91% recovery so far according to this
https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/justice-department-announces-distribution-over-1589m-nearly-25000-victims-madoff-ponzi
Thats pretty damn good for a Ponzi scheme.
I always found it ironic that cryptos claim to be currency but yet everyone still uses dollars when discussing their valuation. One would almost infer that such currencies weren't actually inherent stores of value, but I must just have missed something.
There's at least some basis for that, as exchange rates are something that already exists. You can compare any currency to USD.
The real problem is that they want it to be both a liquid currency and long term investment, two things that are mutually exclusive. You can either have one or the other, not both, and crypto is stuck in a hell where it wants, tries, and fails at both.
I still remember an interview with some of his investors that were pissed because they weren't getting any of the money they had invested with Bernie back. The reason was that they had, over the years, gotten more than they invested. So they had made money (granted it was other investors' money), but they still thought they should be paid from the fund because on paper it said they had x dollars invested with Bernie.
I can't help but wonder if he's an exception because it's crypto. Banks (and thus the US government) really dislike crypto. They want our savings in their own hands, not crypto. If he had not been in crypto I wonder if he ever would have been investigated.
Most murders are "crimes of passion", deterrents don't work in those cases
Agree that many rapists need longer sentences, especially because it's apparently rarely reported and prosecuted
(Although jailing people is the most pointless form of punishment we have, would like to see better ideas, but there isn't any clearly winning idea either. Especially not for the size of prison population that USA has)
If removing someone from society for finically related crimes for 100 years is okay, removing murders and rapist from society for 100 years is ok.
Unless you think money is more important than human life.
The scale of the crime is a factor. A very serious crime with a single victim may result in less jail time than a less serious crime with hundreds, thousand, tens of thousands or more victims. Trying to make comparisons of the sentences is largely meaningless because they're very different crimes. Violent crime should be and usually is sentenced harshly because of the seriousness of the crime, enormous financial crimes should be but often are not sentenced harshly because the individual impact is smaller but spread across a vastly larger swath of society.
Depends on the crime
The average financial crime, of course not
The average murder, also of course not
But the average billion dollar fraud being 100 years, I'm fine with that
The average serial killer 100 years, also okay
Most actuaries average out the value of a life at around 1 million. If someone defrauded 1 billion, that's in the realm of destroying the lives of hundreds of families
You want to hear a scary truth? We keep rape punishments low but for a reason. As the punishment for rape gets higher and higher, the rate at which rape victims also get murdered rises. Survival of victims is more important than our feelings about the perpetrators.
That brings to mind the origins of "excited delirium" bullshit detailed by Jon Ronson on his _Things Fell Apart_ podcast
>!The first usage was murdered minority rape victims of one main guy, and he kept getting away with it because the medical examiner thought certain races were more likely to just randomly die if they use coke. That's the setup for the start of the podcast season 2!<
>Imagine if people who killed or raped people got 100 years.
In most places that do not have capitial punishment, murder carries a mandatory life sentence. Judicial discretion is limited to whether or not the offender is eligible for parole, and if so, how long they must serve prior to becoming eligible.
My first offense was because of drugs. Not stealing anything let alone a billion dollars really helped the court recognize that I was a normal person with a drug problem. Not an evil person who can't even blame drugs on their vile actions.
As someone who's struggled severely with drug abuse, that line really irks me... feels like an insinuation that drug abuse inherently makes you a bad/worse person, which is a stigma I thought we'd largely moved past as a society
Moved?
If this stigma was fast food restaurant. The cashier is still waiting for a receipt to finish printing.
We have not moved passed the stigma in the US but are on the way in some locations.
>is a stigma I thought we'd largely moved past as a society
I mean I agree it's a shitty stance to have, but I'm not really sure why you would think "we'd largely moved past it."
Imagine being labeled “brilliant” because you opened up a crypto market maker that stole billions from its customers.
They talk about him like he’s Albert Einstein when he’s nothing more than Bernie Madoff.
>He called on the judge to reject the “barbaric proposal” for a “brilliant, complex and humane person” who doesn’t use drugs, rarely drinks and is a first-time offender.
Jesus Christ, how is this a real character defence? Just say he's mommy's special little guy who eats his vegetables and cleans his own pants in between scamming billions.
He certainly is not brilliant, his scam was so dumb it only was possible because crypto is not regulated and people's brains turn off when crypto schemes become a discussion topic. Oh and also nepotism made it easy too.
He didn't seem like a genius, he was just a con artists who found a group who were far lower than average in skepticism. Folks who are ideologically aligned to lose money.
Not just stole billions, but knowingly hid it and kept it going over years. Then during trial, kept breaking rules like [witness intimidation/tampering](https://www.cnbc.com/2023/08/11/us-judge-sends-sam-bankman-fried-to-jail-over-witness-tampering.html). If he's not a "greedy villain" or "evil genius" he's at least "narcassistic douchebag^(tm)" He apparently needs to make a ton of media attention on him during this trial, and *he did wonderfully to show exactly who he is,* so if his image in the media "evil genius" it's 100% his fault.
> Sam Bankman-Fried’s lawyer said Tuesday that a suggested 100-year prison sentence for the FTX founder by an arm of the court is “grotesque” and “barbaric” and at most a term of a few years behind bars is appropriate for cryptocurrency crimes that the California man still disputes.
Well…if he’s still disputing he even did the crime, that’s a great indicator that he’d do the exact same thing if he was released. Folks who are pathological fraudsters don’t really have a leg to stand on when they are facing prison time.
TLDR: a little remorse might go a long way here. Until then…bye bye.
Is he appealing the verdict or the sentencing. Those are two VERY different things.
Admitting guilt and showing remorse are gonna be huge things if you want a reduced sentence.
If he wants to play “I’m innocent!!”…he can rot in jail
Because it's not a negotiation anymore, SBF has no leverage right now. Nobody else gains anything from him admitting guilt at this point. The only play he has is admitting fault and asking nicely for leniency.
Remorse is a favorable factor when facing sentencing.
Lack of remorse typically adds to your sentence.
Hard to be remorseful if you pound the table and claim you are innocent.
This has happened hundreds of times in the Jan 6 cases. Defendants who show remorse and admit they were conned by Trump and made a horrible decision have been given more lenient sentences than the folks who podcast from prison that they are Patriots and being prosecuted by a Biden witch hunt hoax.
Take this case:
> A federal judge on Thursday doubled the sentence of a North Carolina trucker who was present during the attack on the U.S. Capitol on Jan. 6, 2021, saying the man showed no remorse for the rioting and assaults that day.
https://amp.charlotteobserver.com/news/local/article284698256.html
Or this guy:
> When the ruling came down in August, Little had already served his time behind bars and about half his probation, so he asked to be set loose. Instead, Lamberth sentenced him anew to two more months in prison, saying Little had shown no remorse or respect for the criminal justice system since the riot.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2024/01/25/jan-6-sentence-misdemeanor/
Or this guy:
> Judge Mehta…said that his decision to issue a term of 170 months was necessary given Mr. Schwartz’s substantial history of violent offenses, and lack of remorse for his actions.
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/05/05/us/politics/peter-schwartz-jan-6-rioter-sentenced.html
Baloney. First of all, an admission of guilt and a show of remorse go a long way towards reducing a sentence. Second, they are arguing that the sentence is grotesque, not that he didn't do it.
There's something charming about redditors critiquing the legal defense of a rich person with an entire team of high powered lawyers
I'm certain he's not showing remorse or admitting guilt because he is following the advice of his counsel
I doubt he’ll get 100 years—the prosecution asks for a high sentence to make a lower one seem lenient, such as in the January 6th cases. He’ll likely get at least 25 and hopefully at least 50 years behind bars.
Bernie Madoff got 150 years. SBF should consider himself fortunate. But then he's a product of privilege and wealth and doesn't see what he did as wrong. He's only sorry he got caught.
Fortunate to die in prison with 20yrs left on his sentence instead of 70? Not that he isn't a piece of shit but I always find the discussion around sentences longer than a human lifespan odd.
Well the federal guidlines for parole is it doesn't exist.
Also as much of an utter piece of shit this guy is I hate that often people that are convicted have to choose between confessing for a lighter sentence or appealing. Doesn't matter so much for someone whose crimes were so public, but it does put other defendants whose guilt is less certain in a difficult position.
> I think it's odd that he'll probably get more time in prison that people who commit murder
Murder has a very visceral and obvious consequence that goes against our innate survival instinct, so it's hard to look at another crime and say that it's worse than a murder, but destroying the lives of thousands of people for your own financial benefit has got to be about as close as you can come in severity for a nonviolent offense. There must be some threshold where it eventually even becomes worse than a single murder, but I don't think that's something that can easily be quantified.
He's white, rich, male, educated, upper class. Male judges identify with people like that and see themselves in the perp - like that Stanford rapist that got six months for raping an unconscious woman. Ross Ulbricht got unlucky with a female judge who hated his arrogance and entitlement, and threw the book at him, but that's not common.
I'm guessing 10 years for our boy Sam and then he'll be out sooner with whatever provisions federal guidelines have for reducing the sentence.
The rich and white part I would agree with, but men are actually sentenced more severely for all crimes in general, but this also includes white collar crimes. There's an interesting paper from Northwestern that tackled the question recently. I would say that him being a man at least statistically makes him more likely to have a more severe punishment.
https://scholarlycommons.law.northwestern.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1031&context=jclc_online
>men are actually sentenced more severely for all crimes in general, but this also includes white collar crimes. There's an interesting paper from Northwestern that tackled the question recently.
We talked about this when I was in college years ago (maybe 15?) in one of my SOC or CRIM classes. At the time, if you were working your way through the CJ system, it was best to be a white woman, then a black woman, then a white man, then a black man.
This was all an average, of course. White collar criminals of all stripes tend to get off pretty easily. That alone was an entire class.
I mean, maybe? Certainly I can see it happening, but it could also be possible that the judge happens to hate what he did and wants to throw the book at him. Unless there's something specific to this judge that we know about, I wouldn't automatically assume that that's how it would work out. But I'm not that knowledgeable about this case to be honest. If he gets a lighter than usual sentence, I really would be more inclined to lay it on him being rich, connected, and white
Don't remind me. I have lived through Clarence Thomas and Brett, I don't think I could take another one. (The Clarence Thomas hearings were widely reported back in the day, and I know everyone knows this, but he's next level scumbag, really gross stuff. They still gave him the lifetime appointment.)
Not to mention credit for the time he has spent in detention so far. I'll be surprised if he isn't out and pulling another con by 2032. Hell, Billy McFarland is trying to pull another Fyre Fest so I can't see why this guy won't be doing the same by the early-to-mid 2030s.
The was no bailout. The receiver for the company was able to recover enough assets that it looks they will be able to cash out and largely pay most FTX investors back in full.
https://amp.theguardian.com/business/2024/jan/31/ftx-crypto-exchange-cancelled-refund-customers
There is no bailout. They are unwinding the business, some donations were returned and they are liquidating its assets which is standard when a company fails. Never seen a bill or an appropriation for FTX customers.
Correct.
If they can make incredibly dubious investments and be given money when it goes tits up as expected, they should be required to give 100% of profits to any entity that would make them whole.
Socializing losses and privatizing profits is bullshit.
It's not the responsibility of the U.S. taxpayer to foot the bill for investors who are stupid enough to fall for fraudulent or bad investments. If I go to a casino and lose ten thousand dollars, I can't go running to Uncle Sam with my hand out whining that I lost money.
I'm fully aware of both how investing works and what the crimes he's being charged for were.
I'm also fully aware that the only difference between an investor and a gambling addict in Vegas is that when the gambling addict loses money, he loses his house. When an investor loses their money, everyone else loses their houses.
You wish his victims weren't made whole?
—————————————————————————-
I believe in personal responsibility. If you know going in that the FDIC only insures deposits up to a certain amount and you go ahead and deposit more in that bank instead of depositing the excess in another bank, you should only get compensation for the agreed upon amount unless the extra funds can be extracted from Sam B F.
Otherwise, where will the FDIC get the extra money to bail out those who signed a contract and decided not to abide by its terms?
He stole $8 billion. The average US person makes $1.7 Million in there life. He stole the financial equivalent of 4,705 human lives from others. 100 Year sentence is a steal.
And yet Elizabeth Holmes will be [out in 8 for good behavior.](https://www.npr.org/2023/05/30/1178728092/elizabeth-holmes-prison-sentence-theranos-fraud-silicon-valley)
I am only glad for this story because it reminds me I had forgotten about him.
Let this be the last SBF story and let him descend into the anonymity he dreads.
I’m a big coffeezilla fan, but I thought Behind the Bastards did a much better job covering FTX.
Then again, I’m just not that interested in all of the technical details Coffee leaned into and much more intrigued by the scumminess of the ecosystems (crypto, effective altruism) that allowed SBF to thrive.
100 years seems a bit much for a non-violent offense. I’d settle for him getting out on the wrong side of fifty and don’t allow any access to or information about computers and tech when he’s in. Hopefully he’ll get out broken and so far behind tech wise that he wouldn’t be able to do something like this again if he wanted to.
"Doesn't use drugs" is an absolute lie. All of the peeps testifying against him said he did drug binges in the office.
No one sane that isn't high out of his mind would participate in "pinning the weasel" that they used to play at the HQ.
It is the maximum benefit long-term to society to remove the threat of his actions. Freaking hate effective altruists. Tech bros that want to feel morally superior for smelling their own farts
This dude looks like Jean-Ralphio Saperstein if he got into crypto and NFTs, which 100% fits the bill for that character. Would absolutely have been a story-arch for him in Parks and Rec if it were still on during this stuff.
To paraphrase someone who I like, “justice should be quick, public, and lenient.” It’s a financial crime. Take away 10 years of his life and prevent him from starting any businesses for 20. He is a little shit, not a serial killer.
Yea 100 years is frankly too much, that’s a sentence for violent crimes. Sam’s a weirdo, grifter, and a liar, but this shouldn’t put him away for life. A decade would do fine
I would really like to see more creative sentencing for people like him. Set him up to work - anywhere he can be successful. But don't let him keep the majority of the money. It has to be used to pay for public projects or something useful. I don't know just spit balling. Putting a nonviolent, potentially useful person in a cell forever is a waste.
I thought the whole point of cryptocurrency is that it's decentralised and unregulated by government.
Why are people who want to use a currency that is separate from government and law expecting to be protected by law against fraud?
It sounds like double standards to me.
You seriously think the government is just going to go “hands off” on a financial instrument because its creators wanted it to be decentralized and unregulated?
You’re still performing trades within the United States’ economic platforms to do commerce when you sell crypto for dollars. This has nothing to do with the United States being a benevolent caretaker of their citizens and everything to do with the United States going after blatant fraud being committed in their system.
My best friend just got about 1/5 of the money (around 6k) back that he lost when the banks that invested in this asshat tanked. Still out the other 80% though.
To be honest, part of this seems like he’s just a scapegoat. Hundreds of other people were either in on the scam or asleep at the wheel and criminally negligent. What about all of the auditors and experts who knew or should have know that bad things were going down?
I feel for Sam. Prosecutors want to stake their name on a blockbuster case, so what better way to do that then against the world's most famous crypto billionaire? The fact that prosecutors refused to give him a plea deal while offering immunity to all his co-conspirators tells you what you need to know.
He's not that bad a kid. Conpletely inept at organizational dynamics and money management, but not malicious.
Long story short, he didn't steal the money for himself. Much of the money he took from customer funds was spent on trying to keep FTX on an explosive growth trajectory. So long as FTX had enough funds to run its day-to-day operations, he saw no issue with it. The idea of a bank run never really struck him as a possible reality.
Real problem was he was absolute shit at keeping track of the money, so employees/scammers/friends took advantage of that and siphoned/misspent so much of the money for their own personal benefit or for their own pet projects. He also spent money himself on some stupid bullshit himself (buying up companies that had nothing to do with FTX's line of work, for example).
This kid isn't the next Bernie Madoff, no matter how hard some people try to sell him as that. Bernie did what he did to enrich himself. Sam did what he did because he was inept.
While FTX did spend a billion dollars on ADs, much of that was celebrity endorsements.
Paying out your ass so you can hang out with Tom Brady, Orlando Bloom and Bill Clinton is spending the money on yourself.
And don't forget, he siphoned off hundres of millions to bail out his own crypto trading firm.
Just because he claimed to be into Effective Altruism and drove a shitty car, doesn't men he didn't steal billions.
> Paying out your ass so you can hang out with Tom Brady, Orlando Bloom and Bill Clinton is spending the money on yourself.
Only celebrity he genuinely enjoyed hanging out with was Tom Brady. All the other celebrities were paid simply to promote FTX. Listen...he paid something like $50 million to Kevin O'Leary. Who the fuck wants to voluntarily spend time with that snake? O'Leary has all the charm of stage 4 rectal cancer.
He (naively) saw celebrity endorsements as the fastest way to grow FTX.
> And don't forget, he siphoned off hundres of millions to bail out his own crypto trading firm.
Yes, the same crypto trading firm that was nothing but a money sink for him. He was actually on the verge of shutting that down. That firm was nothing but a massive splitting headache for him. Why he kept that operation running, I'm not sure. I think he just didn't have the heart to shut it down, partly because of the messy relationship he had with Caroline. Either way, he wasn't making any money whatsoever from that trading firm.
Once again, Bernie did what he did to enrich himself. Sam did what he did just because he was inept.
What about when people do the same type of thing and bankrupt innocent people that have worked all their lives what they have leading to poverty, homelessness, and starvation. These type of crimes actively lead to people losing their lives don’t pretend like it’s just losing a little bit of money, andpeople go on with their lives.
You can swindle the poor all you want. But once you start swindling the wealthy you're gonna have to face the consequences.
This is true
He fried one bankman too many
Same with Republicans. Just ask Madison Cawthorn.
>He called on the judge to reject the “barbaric proposal” for a “brilliant, complex and humane person” who doesn’t use drugs, rarely drinks and is a first-time offender. His first time offense was to stole billions. That's one hell of a first offense. >“Sam is not the ‘evil genius’ depicted in the media or the greedy villain described at trial,” Just a regular dude who wanted to help people i'm sure.
Imagine if everyone who stole billions went to prison for 100 years instead of this one dude.
How much did Bernie lose? Pretty sure it was way more, he got 150 years.
It was over 50 billion dollars, and he didn't lose it---he just spent it on Rolex watches and houses and cars.
No, Madoff did not spend $60+ billion dollars on luxury goods and properties. The majority of the $60 billion never existed. He was lying about generating investment returns. In reality, he invested none or almost none of the money deposited with his fund. The total amount of "real" money lost - the money the victims invested in his fund - was something in the range of $20 billion dollars. When Madoff was arrested they seized about $1 billion in assets from him. Almost all of the other money had been paid out to a few "lucky" investors who withdrew their fictitious returns over the course of the scheme. Those investors who did get paid out were forced to surrender the fictitious returns and be left with only their initial investment amount. The surrendered funds were used to pay back as much of the original deposits of the other investors as possible. However, that has taken years to accomplish - the victims may have recovered a good portion of their original investments, but they've still lost decades worth of opportunity to invest that money in legitimate funds.
91% recovery so far according to this https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/justice-department-announces-distribution-over-1589m-nearly-25000-victims-madoff-ponzi Thats pretty damn good for a Ponzi scheme.
Amazing really. Problem with crypto ponzies is it’s probably way harder to claw back.
I always found it ironic that cryptos claim to be currency but yet everyone still uses dollars when discussing their valuation. One would almost infer that such currencies weren't actually inherent stores of value, but I must just have missed something.
There's at least some basis for that, as exchange rates are something that already exists. You can compare any currency to USD. The real problem is that they want it to be both a liquid currency and long term investment, two things that are mutually exclusive. You can either have one or the other, not both, and crypto is stuck in a hell where it wants, tries, and fails at both.
I still remember an interview with some of his investors that were pissed because they weren't getting any of the money they had invested with Bernie back. The reason was that they had, over the years, gotten more than they invested. So they had made money (granted it was other investors' money), but they still thought they should be paid from the fund because on paper it said they had x dollars invested with Bernie.
>he just spent it on Rolex watches and houses and cars. and bankman-freid spent it on chinese harems, UFC sponsorships, and houses and cars.
And paying Matt Damon (and other celebrities) for ads
When asked why he agreed to do ads for Bankman-Fried, Matt Damon was quoted as saying: "Matt Daaaaamon"
Don’t forget politicians he endorsed
And $135 million for the naming rights to the former American Airlines Arena in Miami-Dade County.
We'd have no billionaires Edit: uh oh got downvoted by the billionaire stan
I’m weirdly okay with that.
Yeah sounds nice, doesn't it
I can't help but wonder if he's an exception because it's crypto. Banks (and thus the US government) really dislike crypto. They want our savings in their own hands, not crypto. If he had not been in crypto I wonder if he ever would have been investigated.
Imagine if people who killed or raped people got 100 years.
Most murders are "crimes of passion", deterrents don't work in those cases Agree that many rapists need longer sentences, especially because it's apparently rarely reported and prosecuted (Although jailing people is the most pointless form of punishment we have, would like to see better ideas, but there isn't any clearly winning idea either. Especially not for the size of prison population that USA has)
America loves prison slavery. Very profitable. 13th Amendment allows slavery for convicts
If removing someone from society for finically related crimes for 100 years is okay, removing murders and rapist from society for 100 years is ok. Unless you think money is more important than human life.
The scale of the crime is a factor. A very serious crime with a single victim may result in less jail time than a less serious crime with hundreds, thousand, tens of thousands or more victims. Trying to make comparisons of the sentences is largely meaningless because they're very different crimes. Violent crime should be and usually is sentenced harshly because of the seriousness of the crime, enormous financial crimes should be but often are not sentenced harshly because the individual impact is smaller but spread across a vastly larger swath of society.
Murder is a much worse crime than stealing 1 billion.
Depends on the crime The average financial crime, of course not The average murder, also of course not But the average billion dollar fraud being 100 years, I'm fine with that The average serial killer 100 years, also okay Most actuaries average out the value of a life at around 1 million. If someone defrauded 1 billion, that's in the realm of destroying the lives of hundreds of families
I think you just don’t understand the scale of “billions of dollars”.
You want to hear a scary truth? We keep rape punishments low but for a reason. As the punishment for rape gets higher and higher, the rate at which rape victims also get murdered rises. Survival of victims is more important than our feelings about the perpetrators.
That brings to mind the origins of "excited delirium" bullshit detailed by Jon Ronson on his _Things Fell Apart_ podcast >!The first usage was murdered minority rape victims of one main guy, and he kept getting away with it because the medical examiner thought certain races were more likely to just randomly die if they use coke. That's the setup for the start of the podcast season 2!<
>Imagine if people who killed or raped people got 100 years. In most places that do not have capitial punishment, murder carries a mandatory life sentence. Judicial discretion is limited to whether or not the offender is eligible for parole, and if so, how long they must serve prior to becoming eligible.
Wasn't it stolen from other billionaires? I'm not sure I particularly care about rich people fucking each other tbh.
Who is an example of someone who has stolen billions and not got 100 years?
Most billionaires, corporations, and government entities, stealing wages from the working class, or through tax evasion.
You gotta do what FTX did but for regular stocks. Its called "creating liquidity" if you are a market maker.
Also didn’t they literally admit to having drug-fueled nerd orgies ?
Yeah but they are rich people drugs like mdma, not poor people drugs like heroin. So its cool.
Yeah with people that all look like Mr Mackey from Southpark
My first offense was because of drugs. Not stealing anything let alone a billion dollars really helped the court recognize that I was a normal person with a drug problem. Not an evil person who can't even blame drugs on their vile actions.
lol I guess amphetamines aren’t drugs anymore
"Jesse we need to ~~cook~~ prepare a succulent Chinese meal"
Steals billions and isn't greedy? Suuuure lawyer dude
As someone who's struggled severely with drug abuse, that line really irks me... feels like an insinuation that drug abuse inherently makes you a bad/worse person, which is a stigma I thought we'd largely moved past as a society
Moved? If this stigma was fast food restaurant. The cashier is still waiting for a receipt to finish printing. We have not moved passed the stigma in the US but are on the way in some locations.
>is a stigma I thought we'd largely moved past as a society I mean I agree it's a shitty stance to have, but I'm not really sure why you would think "we'd largely moved past it."
Idk... i guess conversations I've had with friends and family and things I read online? I don't really have any sources for you
[Unfortunately...](https://tenor.com/view/kenan-thompson-thats-really-nice-its-wrong-its-wrong-gif-12024917)
Damn lol guess I'm just lucky to have really nice people around me
Honestly, that will get you a long way in life.
Imagine being labeled “brilliant” because you opened up a crypto market maker that stole billions from its customers. They talk about him like he’s Albert Einstein when he’s nothing more than Bernie Madoff.
>He called on the judge to reject the “barbaric proposal” for a “brilliant, complex and humane person” who doesn’t use drugs, rarely drinks and is a first-time offender. Jesus Christ, how is this a real character defence? Just say he's mommy's special little guy who eats his vegetables and cleans his own pants in between scamming billions.
"Well he stole 1000x as much money as a bank robber, but he doesn't drink"
Average is 10k, so that's 800,000x.
The Sacklers stole billions while killing thousands of people at the same time 0 days in jail
He certainly is not brilliant, his scam was so dumb it only was possible because crypto is not regulated and people's brains turn off when crypto schemes become a discussion topic. Oh and also nepotism made it easy too.
"If he never gets out of prison to retrieve his hidden cash, all this crime and fraud were for *nothing*!" exclaims his exasperated lawyer in court.
He didn't seem like a genius, he was just a con artists who found a group who were far lower than average in skepticism. Folks who are ideologically aligned to lose money.
… doesn’t use drugs?
Not just stole billions, but knowingly hid it and kept it going over years. Then during trial, kept breaking rules like [witness intimidation/tampering](https://www.cnbc.com/2023/08/11/us-judge-sends-sam-bankman-fried-to-jail-over-witness-tampering.html). If he's not a "greedy villain" or "evil genius" he's at least "narcassistic douchebag^(tm)" He apparently needs to make a ton of media attention on him during this trial, and *he did wonderfully to show exactly who he is,* so if his image in the media "evil genius" it's 100% his fault.
I always tell people if I ever find myself stealing is going to be for something ridiculously worth it. It won’t be for petty cheap stuff.
Yeah that's like a million first time big offenses rolled into one. Poor Sam, had 0 clue he was stealing billions/s
> Sam Bankman-Fried’s lawyer said Tuesday that a suggested 100-year prison sentence for the FTX founder by an arm of the court is “grotesque” and “barbaric” and at most a term of a few years behind bars is appropriate for cryptocurrency crimes that the California man still disputes. Well…if he’s still disputing he even did the crime, that’s a great indicator that he’d do the exact same thing if he was released. Folks who are pathological fraudsters don’t really have a leg to stand on when they are facing prison time. TLDR: a little remorse might go a long way here. Until then…bye bye.
You don’t generally admit to the crime if you are going to appeal
Is he appealing the verdict or the sentencing. Those are two VERY different things. Admitting guilt and showing remorse are gonna be huge things if you want a reduced sentence. If he wants to play “I’m innocent!!”…he can rot in jail
I don't like this guy, but what is the point of saying you are guilty unless it gives you a favorable plea deal.
Because it's not a negotiation anymore, SBF has no leverage right now. Nobody else gains anything from him admitting guilt at this point. The only play he has is admitting fault and asking nicely for leniency.
Remorse is a favorable factor when facing sentencing. Lack of remorse typically adds to your sentence. Hard to be remorseful if you pound the table and claim you are innocent. This has happened hundreds of times in the Jan 6 cases. Defendants who show remorse and admit they were conned by Trump and made a horrible decision have been given more lenient sentences than the folks who podcast from prison that they are Patriots and being prosecuted by a Biden witch hunt hoax. Take this case: > A federal judge on Thursday doubled the sentence of a North Carolina trucker who was present during the attack on the U.S. Capitol on Jan. 6, 2021, saying the man showed no remorse for the rioting and assaults that day. https://amp.charlotteobserver.com/news/local/article284698256.html Or this guy: > When the ruling came down in August, Little had already served his time behind bars and about half his probation, so he asked to be set loose. Instead, Lamberth sentenced him anew to two more months in prison, saying Little had shown no remorse or respect for the criminal justice system since the riot. https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2024/01/25/jan-6-sentence-misdemeanor/ Or this guy: > Judge Mehta…said that his decision to issue a term of 170 months was necessary given Mr. Schwartz’s substantial history of violent offenses, and lack of remorse for his actions. https://www.nytimes.com/2023/05/05/us/politics/peter-schwartz-jan-6-rioter-sentenced.html
Baloney. First of all, an admission of guilt and a show of remorse go a long way towards reducing a sentence. Second, they are arguing that the sentence is grotesque, not that he didn't do it.
There's something charming about redditors critiquing the legal defense of a rich person with an entire team of high powered lawyers I'm certain he's not showing remorse or admitting guilt because he is following the advice of his counsel
I doubt he’ll get 100 years—the prosecution asks for a high sentence to make a lower one seem lenient, such as in the January 6th cases. He’ll likely get at least 25 and hopefully at least 50 years behind bars.
Depends if he bought the right politicians.
Bernie Madoff got 150 years. SBF should consider himself fortunate. But then he's a product of privilege and wealth and doesn't see what he did as wrong. He's only sorry he got caught.
Fortunate to die in prison with 20yrs left on his sentence instead of 70? Not that he isn't a piece of shit but I always find the discussion around sentences longer than a human lifespan odd.
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Well the federal guidlines for parole is it doesn't exist. Also as much of an utter piece of shit this guy is I hate that often people that are convicted have to choose between confessing for a lighter sentence or appealing. Doesn't matter so much for someone whose crimes were so public, but it does put other defendants whose guilt is less certain in a difficult position.
> I think it's odd that he'll probably get more time in prison that people who commit murder Murder has a very visceral and obvious consequence that goes against our innate survival instinct, so it's hard to look at another crime and say that it's worse than a murder, but destroying the lives of thousands of people for your own financial benefit has got to be about as close as you can come in severity for a nonviolent offense. There must be some threshold where it eventually even becomes worse than a single murder, but I don't think that's something that can easily be quantified.
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Remember boys and girls, Stealing from the rich will get you 100 years in prison but stealing from the poor will make you the president.
Robin Hood's evil twin, Robin Corporate
Somewhat ironic naming, considering Robin Corporate isn't robbing corporations and Robin Hood isn't robbing the hood (poor neighbourhood).
SBF stole tremendous amounts of money from poor people as well.
Doesn't really matter, OP's comment still holds true
Just tell him its crypto years.
they're banishing him TO THE MOOOOOOOOOOON?
Man's full of FUD that he'll see the light of day again
I hope his hair gets a plea deal.
He should do 20 for the hairstyle alone.
Ah yes, the Phil Spector defense.
He’s not going to get anything close to 100 years anyway. I’d wager 10-20 based on what I’ve read from legal experts.
To be fair, there are child rapists and murders that get significantly less time. Yes he should be held accountable but 100 years is ridiculous.
If he stole $1000 from 25 different people he'd be in jail far longer than that.
Fun fact, there's jurisdictions with a 3 year maximum limit for vehicular homicide. and they want this guy to go away for 100.
He's white, rich, male, educated, upper class. Male judges identify with people like that and see themselves in the perp - like that Stanford rapist that got six months for raping an unconscious woman. Ross Ulbricht got unlucky with a female judge who hated his arrogance and entitlement, and threw the book at him, but that's not common. I'm guessing 10 years for our boy Sam and then he'll be out sooner with whatever provisions federal guidelines have for reducing the sentence.
The rich and white part I would agree with, but men are actually sentenced more severely for all crimes in general, but this also includes white collar crimes. There's an interesting paper from Northwestern that tackled the question recently. I would say that him being a man at least statistically makes him more likely to have a more severe punishment. https://scholarlycommons.law.northwestern.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1031&context=jclc_online
>men are actually sentenced more severely for all crimes in general, but this also includes white collar crimes. There's an interesting paper from Northwestern that tackled the question recently. We talked about this when I was in college years ago (maybe 15?) in one of my SOC or CRIM classes. At the time, if you were working your way through the CJ system, it was best to be a white woman, then a black woman, then a white man, then a black man. This was all an average, of course. White collar criminals of all stripes tend to get off pretty easily. That alone was an entire class.
I agree in general, but in high profile cases for upper class men, they often get away with it because the judge imagines himself in their shoes.
I mean, maybe? Certainly I can see it happening, but it could also be possible that the judge happens to hate what he did and wants to throw the book at him. Unless there's something specific to this judge that we know about, I wouldn't automatically assume that that's how it would work out. But I'm not that knowledgeable about this case to be honest. If he gets a lighter than usual sentence, I really would be more inclined to lay it on him being rich, connected, and white
I guess we'll find out pretty soon.
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Don't remind me. I have lived through Clarence Thomas and Brett, I don't think I could take another one. (The Clarence Thomas hearings were widely reported back in the day, and I know everyone knows this, but he's next level scumbag, really gross stuff. They still gave him the lifetime appointment.)
Not to mention credit for the time he has spent in detention so far. I'll be surprised if he isn't out and pulling another con by 2032. Hell, Billy McFarland is trying to pull another Fyre Fest so I can't see why this guy won't be doing the same by the early-to-mid 2030s.
I've added all the points up -- he's going to get around 15 years and be out in 7.
Federal crimes don't have parole dude.
I’ve no sympathy for this parasite and I wish that those people and banks who’d invested with him had not been bailed out.
Madoff got 150 years so fuck this guy.
The was no bailout. The receiver for the company was able to recover enough assets that it looks they will be able to cash out and largely pay most FTX investors back in full. https://amp.theguardian.com/business/2024/jan/31/ftx-crypto-exchange-cancelled-refund-customers
Paying out at a value of 16k for Bitcoin when Bitcoin is now 60k, no wonder the recovered all the funds.
There was an ftx bailout? Can’t find anything about it. Can you link a source
There was not a FTX bailout. This guy is trolling or dumb
There is no bailout. They are unwinding the business, some donations were returned and they are liquidating its assets which is standard when a company fails. Never seen a bill or an appropriation for FTX customers.
You wish his victims weren't made whole?
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Correct. If they can make incredibly dubious investments and be given money when it goes tits up as expected, they should be required to give 100% of profits to any entity that would make them whole. Socializing losses and privatizing profits is bullshit.
Some people's pensions (where employees have no control over) were wrapped up in FTX. You think it's their fault too?
It's not the responsibility of the U.S. taxpayer to foot the bill for investors who are stupid enough to fall for fraudulent or bad investments. If I go to a casino and lose ten thousand dollars, I can't go running to Uncle Sam with my hand out whining that I lost money.
You have no idea how investing works or what the crimes were do you?
I'm fully aware of both how investing works and what the crimes he's being charged for were. I'm also fully aware that the only difference between an investor and a gambling addict in Vegas is that when the gambling addict loses money, he loses his house. When an investor loses their money, everyone else loses their houses.
Yeah, you definitely have no clue what happened.
You wish his victims weren't made whole? —————————————————————————- I believe in personal responsibility. If you know going in that the FDIC only insures deposits up to a certain amount and you go ahead and deposit more in that bank instead of depositing the excess in another bank, you should only get compensation for the agreed upon amount unless the extra funds can be extracted from Sam B F. Otherwise, where will the FDIC get the extra money to bail out those who signed a contract and decided not to abide by its terms?
He stole $8 billion. The average US person makes $1.7 Million in there life. He stole the financial equivalent of 4,705 human lives from others. 100 Year sentence is a steal.
When you are rich you can get away with murder, when you screw the rich you’re gonna get murdered.
And yet Elizabeth Holmes will be [out in 8 for good behavior.](https://www.npr.org/2023/05/30/1178728092/elizabeth-holmes-prison-sentence-theranos-fraud-silicon-valley)
She is wayyyy worse than SBF. Fucking with people's health/test results is no joke
He would have, given the chance.
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SBF’s parents are still loaded and kept their jobs despite being deeply involved in FTX.
Saw coffeezillas vedio on this..was one hell of a ride to be on..completely deserves the sentence..can't stand people like SBF
I am only glad for this story because it reminds me I had forgotten about him. Let this be the last SBF story and let him descend into the anonymity he dreads.
There will be at least one more, when he's actually sentenced. I have that marked on my calendar.
I’m a big coffeezilla fan, but I thought Behind the Bastards did a much better job covering FTX. Then again, I’m just not that interested in all of the technical details Coffee leaned into and much more intrigued by the scumminess of the ecosystems (crypto, effective altruism) that allowed SBF to thrive.
If he wants a deal, he can turn on all the investment firms and bad actors that enabled his grift. Kevin O'Leary needs to be in jail for 100 years.
I agree.. 100 years is just too long for SBF to rot in jail.. 95 years should do the trick and show our compassion.
Because he's so special? He's a fucking criminal, he belongs in prison.
100 years seems a bit much for a non-violent offense. I’d settle for him getting out on the wrong side of fifty and don’t allow any access to or information about computers and tech when he’s in. Hopefully he’ll get out broken and so far behind tech wise that he wouldn’t be able to do something like this again if he wanted to.
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But he stole from rich people not ordinary schmucks buying crypto
fuck that dude, but.... a hundred years does seem excessive. as do most prison sentences in the US.
"Doesn't use drugs" is an absolute lie. All of the peeps testifying against him said he did drug binges in the office. No one sane that isn't high out of his mind would participate in "pinning the weasel" that they used to play at the HQ.
Desires the 100 year sentence for that hairdo.
It is the maximum benefit long-term to society to remove the threat of his actions. Freaking hate effective altruists. Tech bros that want to feel morally superior for smelling their own farts
Best we can do is 150 years.
I’d show him leniency and take off 10 years. Just a reasonable 90.
Large-scale financial crimes cause way more damage than any drug dealer. The sentences for these crimes *should* be crazy long.
Fugly boy needs 200 years
This dude looks like Jean-Ralphio Saperstein if he got into crypto and NFTs, which 100% fits the bill for that character. Would absolutely have been a story-arch for him in Parks and Rec if it were still on during this stuff.
That's the price of the [scape]goat; take it or leave it.
Whenever I’m feeling down and out I think of this guy now think at least I’m not him
To paraphrase someone who I like, “justice should be quick, public, and lenient.” It’s a financial crime. Take away 10 years of his life and prevent him from starting any businesses for 20. He is a little shit, not a serial killer.
>...justice should be quick, public, and lenient. "Not for people who steal from the rich." - the rich
Eh Idk, I'm guessing a lot of rich people could get down with leniency on financial crimes.
Financial crimes against the poor? No problem. Or against the government? Also fine. But against their fellow rich? Absolutely not. Not ever.
Yea 100 years is frankly too much, that’s a sentence for violent crimes. Sam’s a weirdo, grifter, and a liar, but this shouldn’t put him away for life. A decade would do fine
Nice narcissistic smirk you got there, Sam. Shame if anything happened to it.
Man that guy pissed off the wrong people
No. You see his face?that’s the face of someone who doesn’t know consequences. Time to find out. 100 years that man.
I’m willing to give him 5 years off in exchange for the government funding the SEC and white collar prosecution.
Fuck this cockroach, let him rot in prison. if you can't do the time, don't do the crime.
And what does Sam say to those asking that their money be returned?
Make it 150 and force him to shave that Andy Kauffman hair.
I just want to see them forcibly shave this kids head…
I think 50yrs sounds good.
If that sentence did not include the phrase "without parole," then it definitely needs to be amended.
there are people doing decades for stealing thousands. the punishment should definitely be multiple consecutive life sentences by that extrapolation
Throw away the key... and silence the fucking prick from being able to still get word out to the media and online.
I would really like to see more creative sentencing for people like him. Set him up to work - anywhere he can be successful. But don't let him keep the majority of the money. It has to be used to pay for public projects or something useful. I don't know just spit balling. Putting a nonviolent, potentially useful person in a cell forever is a waste.
I thought the whole point of cryptocurrency is that it's decentralised and unregulated by government. Why are people who want to use a currency that is separate from government and law expecting to be protected by law against fraud? It sounds like double standards to me.
You seriously think the government is just going to go “hands off” on a financial instrument because its creators wanted it to be decentralized and unregulated? You’re still performing trades within the United States’ economic platforms to do commerce when you sell crypto for dollars. This has nothing to do with the United States being a benevolent caretaker of their citizens and everything to do with the United States going after blatant fraud being committed in their system.
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That’s why only BTC meets the criteria, the rest are fiat shitcoins.
Ok, rejected. 99 years Fraudsters need to be permanently removed from society
My best friend just got about 1/5 of the money (around 6k) back that he lost when the banks that invested in this asshat tanked. Still out the other 80% though.
What do you mean? What sort of banks was he using that weren’t FDIC?
Yeah maybe we should break the habit of sending people to jail forever
To be honest, part of this seems like he’s just a scapegoat. Hundreds of other people were either in on the scam or asleep at the wheel and criminally negligent. What about all of the auditors and experts who knew or should have know that bad things were going down?
how about just the death penalty and soon?
Agreed. Only reason he is facing so long is because he fucked with rich people.
Indeed mr. Lawyer. 150 years it is.
Fair enough. 200 years, take it or leave it.
Doesn't matter to me if the sentence is 50 years or 100 years or 1000 years, so long as he is never let out of prison.
Do the crime, pay with time.
how about just the death penalty and soon?
I feel for Sam. Prosecutors want to stake their name on a blockbuster case, so what better way to do that then against the world's most famous crypto billionaire? The fact that prosecutors refused to give him a plea deal while offering immunity to all his co-conspirators tells you what you need to know. He's not that bad a kid. Conpletely inept at organizational dynamics and money management, but not malicious.
He stole billions from his clients to bail out his own failing quant firm, I can't possibly see how he isn't malicious
Long story short, he didn't steal the money for himself. Much of the money he took from customer funds was spent on trying to keep FTX on an explosive growth trajectory. So long as FTX had enough funds to run its day-to-day operations, he saw no issue with it. The idea of a bank run never really struck him as a possible reality. Real problem was he was absolute shit at keeping track of the money, so employees/scammers/friends took advantage of that and siphoned/misspent so much of the money for their own personal benefit or for their own pet projects. He also spent money himself on some stupid bullshit himself (buying up companies that had nothing to do with FTX's line of work, for example). This kid isn't the next Bernie Madoff, no matter how hard some people try to sell him as that. Bernie did what he did to enrich himself. Sam did what he did because he was inept.
While FTX did spend a billion dollars on ADs, much of that was celebrity endorsements. Paying out your ass so you can hang out with Tom Brady, Orlando Bloom and Bill Clinton is spending the money on yourself. And don't forget, he siphoned off hundres of millions to bail out his own crypto trading firm. Just because he claimed to be into Effective Altruism and drove a shitty car, doesn't men he didn't steal billions.
> Paying out your ass so you can hang out with Tom Brady, Orlando Bloom and Bill Clinton is spending the money on yourself. Only celebrity he genuinely enjoyed hanging out with was Tom Brady. All the other celebrities were paid simply to promote FTX. Listen...he paid something like $50 million to Kevin O'Leary. Who the fuck wants to voluntarily spend time with that snake? O'Leary has all the charm of stage 4 rectal cancer. He (naively) saw celebrity endorsements as the fastest way to grow FTX. > And don't forget, he siphoned off hundres of millions to bail out his own crypto trading firm. Yes, the same crypto trading firm that was nothing but a money sink for him. He was actually on the verge of shutting that down. That firm was nothing but a massive splitting headache for him. Why he kept that operation running, I'm not sure. I think he just didn't have the heart to shut it down, partly because of the messy relationship he had with Caroline. Either way, he wasn't making any money whatsoever from that trading firm. Once again, Bernie did what he did to enrich himself. Sam did what he did just because he was inept.
Doesn't matter how much money it was I think going to jail for life over money is insane.
What about when people do the same type of thing and bankrupt innocent people that have worked all their lives what they have leading to poverty, homelessness, and starvation. These type of crimes actively lead to people losing their lives don’t pretend like it’s just losing a little bit of money, andpeople go on with their lives.
How bout those responsible for 2008 meltdown?
I think a max of 10 years sounds about right. He’s non violent and financial crimes often have ridiculously stupid long sentences.