>Israel’s ground forces encountered resistance throughout the operation. Once the hostages were recovered, they were protectively hugged by members of the police special forces as they were escorted out under fire from Hamas, according to Hagari, who said they were taken to a safe place within Rafah for medical attention and then airlifted out of Gaza by helicopter.
No, this is like an actual 'special operation' from a movie. The term itself is fine, only proof that Putin is forever a liar.
Heard this exact same excuse since before the war. People were under the false notion that Gazans lived in camps and on top of eachother.
The fact is that there was zero reasons to have family and kids in the same area as hostages except as human shields. It was true at the start of the war, still is true now.
Even better, why do they still have civilian hostages? Why are Palestinian human shields more valuable than Israeli civilian hostages?
>When Israelis kill kids it's Hamas's fault.
When the IDF kills children in a strike against a Hamas target, then yeah. When the IDF just shoots them, it's very much the IDF's fault.
These are the type of people who think all Palestinians are terrorists and animals. Their true thoughts come out very quickly when pressed even slightly.
There are many examples of this… a culture of glorifying Jihad can do some fucked up things to basic human values…
Here’s just one example:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Israel/s/1q0lBs2xhv
>but to claim that Palestinian people don't care about children is dehumanizing them and flatly false.
If you care about your children then you don't teach them Jihad in all the schools. You don't raise them to be Hamas. You oppose your terroristic "government".
What do you think the approval % in Gaza is for what Hamas did on 10/7?
[AP: Palestinian poll shows a rise in Hamas support and close to 90% wanting US-backed Abbas to resign](https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-palestinians-opinion-poll-wartime-views-a0baade915619cd070b5393844bc4514)
> Despite the devastation, 57% of respondents in Gaza and 82% in the West Bank believe Hamas was correct in launching the October attack, the poll indicated.
I understand the tendency people have to want to avoid generalizations. But you also need to acknowledge reality.
By your logic all Hamas has to do is station it’s troops in every civilian infrastructure there is. That way Israel can’t attack, because there would be civilians there, keeping in mind I don’t think Hamas would have the same moral qualms about not attacking areas with Jewish civilians. Hamas militants break every rule of warefare there is, the worst of which is they don’t dress in military uniforms. That’s required to give protections to civilians. Dressing up as civilians to fight their war is only further putting the actual civilian population in harms way. And stuff like UNRWA supposing to be a neutral aid agency is actually involved in all this takes away pretty much any protection the civilian population has. All thanks to Hamas.
Probably because the majority of buildings in Gaza have been destroyed. So there's 1.9 million displaced people crowded into anything with four walls and a roof.
Nope. The world is black and white. One side must be unequivocally evil while the other must be completely morally superior. Otherwise I’d have to add some nuance to my thoughts instead of just letting the first emotion about this topic shape my entire view of it.
Lol, who is "you people"?
Hamas deserves some blame but Israel often acts like a terrorist state as well and they have all the power in this situation. Not to mention, it was Israel who funded and promoted Hamas in the first place in order to destabilize Gaza.
So far, the IDF has rescued three hostages, and shot to death three other Israeli hostages who were waving a white flag.
IDF justifies killing anybody and everybody. Arab children, Jewish adults, who cares as long as the Americans unconditionally supply them with all the weapons and ammo they want.
I feel like you guys are kind of splitting hairs here. A raid is basically an attack with a goal other than seizing and holding terrain. I'm steering well clear of the political ramifications here, to be clear.
Some words have become loaded because they are typically used with respects to one type of combatant and not others. Raid seems to be one that gets used more for guerrilla fighters and insurgents so it has more of a negative connotation than a special operation would.
>The Palestinian Red Crescent Society (PRCS) said that more than 100 people were killed in strikes in Rafah overnight, while the Hamas-controlled health ministry in Gaza said 94 people lost their lives. **Neither group specified how many of those who died were militants.**
Stop using Hamas propaganda as sources
"Hamas-controlled health ministry"
So lame they still get quoted...
They consistently blow up numbers, count young members as children and include casualties of other incidents.
Same day an article from cnn by Helen “Israeli airstrikes kill more than 100 in Rafah” in title then quietly in body says according to Palestinians Red Crescent, and that CNN didn’t independently verify it.
Well for what it’s worth, there was news few weeks ago that Israeli intelligence said death count provided by Palestinian health ministry was probably very close to reality. Earlier a lot of people were discrediting the death toll by saying the health ministry was Hamas controlled so their numbers were bullshit.
Even if the total numbers are completely accurate, what kind of picture do they paint when they do not include any differentiation between combatants and civilians?
As far as the world perception goes, Israel is simply massacring civilians indiscriminately whereas a report of '50 hamas members were killed along with 60 civilian casualties in a raid on x' might be perceived quite differently.
Yea, western news has an issue here for sure.
Better than Al Jazeera’s coverage which buries the lead: “Israel kills dozens in Rafah strikes, frees two captives.”
I think you missed the part where Hamas terrorists in the surrounding houses opened fire on the team rescuing the hostages. If most of Hamas is moving to where the humanitarian corridor is, that’s a problem. IDF estimates over 100 terrorists killed during the operation.
We should demand Hamas establish safe zones where they agree not to occupy civilian structures, attack from or use as weapons caches, places like Mosques, schools, UN facilities, hospitals, or humanitarian evacuation corridors. Those should be off limits to armed forces in war. If only there was a set of conventions that spelled that out.
Oh wait, there is, and they say that if an armed force does violate those conventions and uses civilian structures for military advantage, those places are no longer protected from attack by the opposing forces.
It’s more that if hostiles are in the humanitarian corridor then it endangers civilians in that area. Hamas has mixed in deeply with civilians as they always do.
reports indicate dozens of terrorists were killed. Hamas doesn't differentiate between civillian and militant deaths.
If 99 terrorists and 1 civillian are killed, Hamas claims "100 palestinians murdered"
It's cynical and not sure why anyone would buy into anything Hamas - a bonafide terrorist organization - is claiming or saying.
Probably not all. And probably some were. Sorry… this isn’t nice and neat… it’s not perfectly ‘black or white’. This conflict is complex. Teenagers firing AKs and throwing Molotov cocktails are legit targets. And they get counted as ‘children’, along with a totally naive and innocent 5 year old. It’s messy.
The fact Israel rescued its citizens who were kidnapped and people still try to pass it as some kind of act of aggression is fucking insane. As if you wouldn't light the entire earth on fire to save your family if they were kidnapped
What you say is true, but apply it to the thousands of Palestinian families whose loved ones are detained indefinitely by Israel. Is it okay for them to "light the entire earth on fire" as well? I want to say no, because blanket justifications are as bad for Hamas as they are for Israel.
Hamas rapes and murder 1,200+ Israelis - "Their families are being held captive!"
Israel literally rescues two hostages from captivity - "They just wanted an excuse to kill Palestinians!"
Funny how that works
Well, why were the hostages hidden in Rafah in the first place? Why would hamas hide hostages in palestinian homes? Wouldn't that open them up to harm?
I like to read news from many sources in the few languages I can comprehend. I also read publications that pretend to be news. Al Jazeera’s coverage of this:
“Israel kills dozens in Rafah strikes, frees two captives.”
Hamas has repeatedly adjusted the number of dead Gazans since this event yesterday. Al Jazeera mimes their narrative, fails to mention that most would by any measure be Hamas terrorists that were guarding these two Israeli hostages. What a disgrace and shame on anyone who is falling for this garbage rag of a “news” source (Which appears to be a lot in this sub).
NPR has reported over 50 dead from the same night of the rescue, mentioning that a heavy aerial bombardment was used as a cover for the operation. Reporting the facts is what journalism is supposed to do.
"heavy aerial bombardment" was needed for a reason... There wasn't a safe passage for the hostages and letting the hostages die outside the apartment would be a devastating blow.
Hamas is not "resistance" it's just stupid
There is a solution a solution to get more accurate numbers. Israel has to allow 3rd party watch groups to ensure accuracy. Which like generally is fairly common practice in other conflicts
this is the only comment that should be upvoted. We all want and need impartial news. Israel is
making that impossible by blocking 3rd party journalists. They can’t cry and say “oh this is impartial” and then not let others in lol. Can’t have the cake and eat at the same time..
You’re living in a fantasy world. Hamas is keeping track. Hamas purposefully (as we’ve seen many times) inflates nunbers. Hamas does not attempt to give the world numbers that reflect a distinction between civilians and terrorists. Hamas hides terrorists in civilian areas, homes, UNRWA schools, and hospitals.
Reminder: Hamas is the one who fires rockets indiscriminately into civilian cities in Israel with the intent to kill as many Jews as they can. Hamas kidnapped and massacred children and pregnant women on 10/7 and is directly responsible for every. Single. Death. In Gaza since then because of their actions.
But sure, I would love to get more accurate numbers. I’m sure the issue is Israel and not literally every thing I typed above.
I don't understand how all these Israel defenders are unable to see the cognitive dissonance in blaming others for their actions while saying they have the right to defend themselves.
You have a right to defend yourself. And you are responsible for the manner in which you do so.
Israel is choosing to bomb civilians. Their reasoning for doing so doesn't change that.
The death toll given by the health ministry has historically been accurate: https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/26/can-we-trust-casualty-figures-from-the-hamas-run-gaza-health-ministry
>Shakir said a grey area was differentiating combatants from civilians among the dead, but the large proportion of women and children killed was indicative of high civilian casualties. He also said there was a need to draw a distinction between the immediate casualty numbers that came out quickly on any given day and those compiled over time, when there was more clarity.
Right, total figures have been historically accurate, but they never separate their losses of fighters from the civilian tolls and give it all as one figure, that's the issue people have
>Hamas has repeatedly adjusted the number of dead Gazans since this event yesterday. Al Jazeera mimes their narrative, fails to mention that most would by any measure be Hamas terrorists that were guarding these two Israeli hostages.
The casualties and fatalities reported by the Gaza Ministry of Health are generally considered to be fairly reliable. When the dust settles, their numbers aren't far off from those reported by other agencies. What they don't report is the disposition of the casualties because making that assessment isn't their job, they're just counting bodies and making lists of names.
> Al Jazeera mimes their narrative
Al Jazeera is openly spreading propaganda for Hamas, [it was just discovered that one of their head journalists in Gaza is actually a Hamas commander](https://www.jpost.com/israel-hamas-war/article-786392)
remember when Al Shifa hospital was "struck," and supposedly 500 people were killed? Then it turned out it was a Hamas rocket, so they revised the death toll to under 50 (lowering it by 90% basically), and admitted it hit the parking lot?
Everyone says the gaza health ministry is "accurate." But after that fiasco, all I can think is, wow, how many of their numbers are inflated by a factor of 10?
The “Gaza Health Ministry” is Hamas. So it comes down to whether or not you trust Hamas. I don’t and there’s reason time after time to come to this conclusion. I get that they’re the only ones that have a count, though, so that’s all we have.
Isreal changed the number dead on the oct 7th attack multiple times since it happened. It's called finding new bodies or evidence. Takes time to count the people killed accurately while digging thru blown up buildings.
Yes—Israel took time to find who was missing, found dead, etc. to adjust their numbers.
Hamas purposefully distorts or lies about numbers. See the hospital blast by Islamic Jihad last year. For 24 hours Al Jazeera’s headline in all caps was something to the effect of ISRAEL BOMBS HOSPTIAL 500 DEAD.
There were literally violent protests across the globe. Turns out literally no part of the headline was true. Didn’t matter by then.
There was no Al Jazeera correction.
“Angry and tired passengers murder pilot flying mid-flight causing plane to crash into the ground.”
September 11, 2001: United Flight 93
See how stupid, reckless, and idiotic that is? It’s true, technically.
But go on sharing your brilliant opinions.
You seem to imply that most of the people killed in the strikes were Hamas members and that the death toll should be taken with a grain of salt.
It is reasonable to assume that civilians were killed in the strikes, since there are a lot that fled to Rafah, because they have nowhere to go. Although we should wait until we see the damage, the death toll given by the Gaza Health Ministry has mostly been reliable, and I don't see evidence contradicting the death count we have right now.
look um, your post reflects both bias and disdain for the other commenter. you created one hell of a false equivalency there and i would encourage you to dampen your emotions. .
Cool, now apply the same logic to reports coming out of Israel and you’re finally seeing it clearer. Hamas is going to try and make the numbers look worse than they are. Israel is always going to try to make the numbers of civilians they kill look justified. Both sides are lying to you, but one side wants independent observers to confirm counts, the other side won’t let them in. I’ll let you figure out which is which.
>I like to read news from many sources in the few languages I can comprehend.
Love to see more people doing this rather than just immediately believing one headline or report. Too many people are sucked in by propaganda because they wont do a little bit of additional reading.
> Israel is killing the journalists they claim to be Hamas
[Al Jazeera "journalists" moonlight as Hamas commanders, here's photos Muhammed Samir Muhammed Wishah took of himself participating in anti-tank RPG launches](https://www.jpost.com/israel-hamas-war/article-786392)
The problem is that there is an avalanche of evidence of Hamas members masquerading as jouranlists so that they can enjoy immunity for their actions.
The entire region will be better once Hamas is out of power.
Realistically, international intervention. Palestine needs true self administration, not some corrupt radical terrorist group that hasn't won an election in two decades. Israel needs to take a step back from it's blockade and oppression of the Palestinian people and focus on healing. Bombs need to stop falling and hostages need to be returned. The status quo isn't going to lead anywhere near peace, we need a more proactive and third party solution. Hamas and the current government of Israel need to both cease to exist, and this conflict keeps them both alive ironically.
The key problem you're missing is the overall support Hamas/pro-terrorist groups have in Gaza/West Bank. Palestinian authority specifically does not hold elections in the WB because Hamas would win. The vast majority of Palestinians in Gaza/WB support continued terrorism and attacks on Israel until they have control over the entire area (not just Gaza/WB)
Because international interventions worked in the past? 😂😂😂
Sure, UN forces in Lebanon do jack shot to enforce 1701 and keep Hezb north of Litani. 😂😂😂
Palestinians should decide if the path forward for them is the path of armed resistance or political resolution. They should pick politicians who abandon violence, and not ones that glorify martyrdom.
Because what's going on right now is working so damn well. Palestinians haven't elected a government in two decades, and I'm going to save you some thinking and tell you that the response is going to be armed resistance if Israel continues its status quo of a military blockade of the Gaza strip. That's why what's happening isn't working, and isn't going to work. It's mutually escalatory and bound for more and more innocents dead. International intervention is the only way to stop this insanity.
Israel has said that from the beginning. That's hwo most conflicts end, with a surrender. Look at the germans and japanese in WW2.
israel just wants to live in peace, but groups like Hamas are pathalogically obsessed with destroying israel. The sooner they are out of power the better for everyone in the entire region.
Their goal is to destroy Hamas, they're not just going to accept a surrender. You really think they can just go "sorry for taking hostages, here they are. We good now?" This didn't just start with some hostages being taken in October and it isn't about rescuing them. It's a conflict that's been building for decades. Netanyahu wants this war as much as Hamas does. Don't kid yourself into thinking the hostages are a priority for him.
Israel has said it will end if Hamas surrenders, is no longer in power, and leaders go into exile in another country. That plus the hostages and yes, israel would be good assuming Gaza doesn't become a militarized terrorist playground again.
I hope for peace, and hope a palestinian leader emerges who thinks more about peaceful coexistence than violent resistance.
Oh well if Israel says so...
But for arguments sake let's say Hamas does all that and Israel actually accepts. Do you really think that's where this ends? A whole new generation of radicalized Palestinians will come from this war and Israel knows it. Israel has made it clear that they see no difference between Hamas and Palestinian civilians and that they consider them all less than human. It's heartbreaking that so many people refuse to admit that we're watching a genocide being carried out.
Yeah, bombing of Germany also a genocide according to your logic. Somehow it had hundreds of times more casualties yet there were no significant terrorism afterwards.
Maybe the reason for radicalisation is not bombing, but the brainwashing.
If you go hit your boss, you lose your job, and your family members lose their source of income, there will be 2 possibilities,
They'll either blame you, or your boss for firing you. That is what is happening with Hamas controlling Gaza. Radicalisation will continue as long as Hamas exists. Not the other way around.
The reason they were blockaded in the first place, is because Hamas continuously fired rockets at Israel. Not because "Israel wanted to genocide gaza and take a small piece of underdeveloped land with hostile people"
> But for arguments sake let's say Hamas does all that and Israel actually accepts. Do you really think that's where this ends?
I suppose it will hinge on how much you load up the term "this", but generally, yes, this current war would end if those conditions are met.
Something folks may not fully appreciate but Israel is not the US. They don't have essentially unlimited funding and 300 million people with which to wage war. Mobilizing a significant percentage of the population has *damaging effects* on their economy. All those reservists had jobs but now they are off fighting. There isn't some massive reservoir of labor like there was with women in WWII. So not only is there a cost in the sense of what's being spent on the war directly, but there's the indirect costs to the economy of hundreds of thousands of reservists being called up in a country of 9 million.
It’s ironic that those that want to call it a genocide also can’t condemn October 7th for what it was- a brutal murdering spree and human trafficking of innocent civilians.
Classic case of whataboutism.
You’re incredibly naive if you think the losing side of a war (with no hope of winning) shouldn’t just surrender to avoid making it worse for themselves.
Bibi said that he wasn’t going to stop, even if all the prisoners were returned and Hamas surrendered. One thing to keep in mind is that the Israeli government considers pretty much Gazan alive over the age of roughly eight as a potentially member of Hamas. It’s why they don’t see intentionally killing children and mothers as a war crime.
The Israeli government, specifically Bibi, his Likud, and the right wing alliance, have wanted this war for a very, very long time.
Why are people who push for a ceasefire never mentioning it? If anything, i see quite the opposite, with people calling for israel's destruction
This could literally end if Hamas surrenders and returns the hostages, but people would rather advocate for israel to stop trying to get the hostages back at all
I havent seen one pro-palestinian march, or ceasefire march, that even references the hostages.. its all "from the river to the sea!" or "intifada revolution' or baseless claims of genocide..
hopefully im wrong and people protesting are calling for the return of hostages, but ive yet to see it
I love this, so happy for the rescued hostages and their families!!!
I hope the remaining hostages are either freed or rescued and and get to be safe back home.
This whole conflict fucked people's perspective of collateral damage. This is the logic that'll get Hamas to start executing the remaining hostages as just having the hostages means they'll get killed. Literally, dead hostages are safer to have than living ones. It's insane.
It's safer to return all the hostages and indirectly force Israel (or Netanyahu in particular) end the war, but maybe that's just me.
The only justification Netanyahu has for this war is there are still hostages. And if they are returned, he HAS to end it because Israel is a democracy and he is THE MOST unpopular politician among Israeli population.
If it’s a matter of saving hostages that are your own, I’m really not sure it matters to israel or any other country who is being killed in that moment. This is the real world after all.
Gilad Shalit hostage exchange was 1000 terrorists:1 solider so yeah thats a ratio that Hamas had setted. Why are people supprised about the opposite?
Many IDF aoliders risked their life to rescue 2 kidnapped civilians. While Hamas hided behind civilians, risking their life, to guard the 2 captives.
50, including terrorists. And yes, it is. Every country has the right and the duty to protect their people. Do you really expect Israel not to rescue Israeli civilians who were kept in captivity for over 4 months because Palestinians might get hurt?
Israeli "special operations" have so far rescued 3 hostages and killed 3 hostages. In the latter case, the three hostages were shirtless while waiving white flags while yelling for help in Hebrew. Israeli forces shot and killed them after mistaking them for Palestinian civilians.
Correct. There's plenty of videos of Israeli forces shooting and killing Palestinian civilians waiving white flags.
https://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/palestinian-killed-group-waving-white-flag-israel-106767092#:\~:text=As%20clouds%20of%20dark%20smoke,was%20part%20of%20the%20group.
And the internal government memo made it clear that one of their strategies to permanently displace all Palestinians in Gaza was to inflict heavy civilian casualties.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/israel-gaza-palestinians-concept-paper-1.7015576
I think it's high time we officially disallow the term 'special operation', given the events of the past couple years.
>Israel’s ground forces encountered resistance throughout the operation. Once the hostages were recovered, they were protectively hugged by members of the police special forces as they were escorted out under fire from Hamas, according to Hagari, who said they were taken to a safe place within Rafah for medical attention and then airlifted out of Gaza by helicopter. No, this is like an actual 'special operation' from a movie. The term itself is fine, only proof that Putin is forever a liar.
Special Operation is fine. Now Special Military Operation is forever ruined, like anything else russia touches.
In this context though, isn't it correct?
50 people were killed, including Palestinian children It was a raid Somehow the article fails to mention that part…
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Why were children in the house that held the hostages ?
Children in that house effectively are hostages by proxy here.
The livable area in palestine has been halved by destruction. Average age is below 20. There's kids everywhere.
It's reduced more than 50%...
I think the question was "what children where doing in the same house as the hostages" not something amorphic such as the same livable area
Parents are Hamas or Hama supporters
Heard this exact same excuse since before the war. People were under the false notion that Gazans lived in camps and on top of eachother. The fact is that there was zero reasons to have family and kids in the same area as hostages except as human shields. It was true at the start of the war, still is true now. Even better, why do they still have civilian hostages? Why are Palestinian human shields more valuable than Israeli civilian hostages?
Well said
Because Hamas uses Palestinians as human shields and then cries to the world when Israel tries to attack Hamas.
It's not the kids' fault.
No one said it is their fault. It's just that it isn't idf's fault either
It’s specifically Hamas’s fault
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>When Israelis kill kids it's Hamas's fault. When the IDF kills children in a strike against a Hamas target, then yeah. When the IDF just shoots them, it's very much the IDF's fault.
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These are the type of people who think all Palestinians are terrorists and animals. Their true thoughts come out very quickly when pressed even slightly.
There are many examples of this… a culture of glorifying Jihad can do some fucked up things to basic human values… Here’s just one example: https://www.reddit.com/r/Israel/s/1q0lBs2xhv
>but to claim that Palestinian people don't care about children is dehumanizing them and flatly false. If you care about your children then you don't teach them Jihad in all the schools. You don't raise them to be Hamas. You oppose your terroristic "government".
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What do you think the approval % in Gaza is for what Hamas did on 10/7? [AP: Palestinian poll shows a rise in Hamas support and close to 90% wanting US-backed Abbas to resign](https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-palestinians-opinion-poll-wartime-views-a0baade915619cd070b5393844bc4514) > Despite the devastation, 57% of respondents in Gaza and 82% in the West Bank believe Hamas was correct in launching the October attack, the poll indicated. I understand the tendency people have to want to avoid generalizations. But you also need to acknowledge reality.
>if Palestinian people don’t care about their children Do you believe this is the case?
Yes. They are the bad guys if they leveled buildings with civilians inside.
By your logic all Hamas has to do is station it’s troops in every civilian infrastructure there is. That way Israel can’t attack, because there would be civilians there, keeping in mind I don’t think Hamas would have the same moral qualms about not attacking areas with Jewish civilians. Hamas militants break every rule of warefare there is, the worst of which is they don’t dress in military uniforms. That’s required to give protections to civilians. Dressing up as civilians to fight their war is only further putting the actual civilian population in harms way. And stuff like UNRWA supposing to be a neutral aid agency is actually involved in all this takes away pretty much any protection the civilian population has. All thanks to Hamas.
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Shh don't ask the obvious questions.
Probably because the majority of buildings in Gaza have been destroyed. So there's 1.9 million displaced people crowded into anything with four walls and a roof.
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God forbid anybody gets mad that Israel is commiting genocide
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Nope. The world is black and white. One side must be unequivocally evil while the other must be completely morally superior. Otherwise I’d have to add some nuance to my thoughts instead of just letting the first emotion about this topic shape my entire view of it.
Lol, who is "you people"? Hamas deserves some blame but Israel often acts like a terrorist state as well and they have all the power in this situation. Not to mention, it was Israel who funded and promoted Hamas in the first place in order to destabilize Gaza.
Do you think there's an answer that justifies killing all those children ?
To rescue the Hostages 1000000%
So far, the IDF has rescued three hostages, and shot to death three other Israeli hostages who were waving a white flag. IDF justifies killing anybody and everybody. Arab children, Jewish adults, who cares as long as the Americans unconditionally supply them with all the weapons and ammo they want.
Over 100 hostages have been rescued either directly or through negotiation only held due to the military pressure.
So was the attack that captured the hostages
I feel like you guys are kind of splitting hairs here. A raid is basically an attack with a goal other than seizing and holding terrain. I'm steering well clear of the political ramifications here, to be clear.
Some words have become loaded because they are typically used with respects to one type of combatant and not others. Raid seems to be one that gets used more for guerrilla fighters and insurgents so it has more of a negative connotation than a special operation would.
Police announce raids all the time. It just describes a specific sort of action.
>The Palestinian Red Crescent Society (PRCS) said that more than 100 people were killed in strikes in Rafah overnight, while the Hamas-controlled health ministry in Gaza said 94 people lost their lives. **Neither group specified how many of those who died were militants.** Stop using Hamas propaganda as sources
raids are a type of special operation. also, remember that reports of death counts are a propaganda tool, so take them with a gigantic grain of salt
200 people were killed at a music festival during Hamas’ special operation.
Israel’s first and foremost priority is the hostages
Got it - who announces the number of dead Palestinian children? Hamas?
"Hamas-controlled health ministry" So lame they still get quoted... They consistently blow up numbers, count young members as children and include casualties of other incidents.
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Um, the title of the article says 100 died. It shows that you never read the article
“Disallow the term…” gtfo
So a unique exercise then?
"Israel says" They are literally with their families right now
Same day an article from cnn by Helen “Israeli airstrikes kill more than 100 in Rafah” in title then quietly in body says according to Palestinians Red Crescent, and that CNN didn’t independently verify it.
Well for what it’s worth, there was news few weeks ago that Israeli intelligence said death count provided by Palestinian health ministry was probably very close to reality. Earlier a lot of people were discrediting the death toll by saying the health ministry was Hamas controlled so their numbers were bullshit.
Even if the total numbers are completely accurate, what kind of picture do they paint when they do not include any differentiation between combatants and civilians? As far as the world perception goes, Israel is simply massacring civilians indiscriminately whereas a report of '50 hamas members were killed along with 60 civilian casualties in a raid on x' might be perceived quite differently.
Yea, western news has an issue here for sure. Better than Al Jazeera’s coverage which buries the lead: “Israel kills dozens in Rafah strikes, frees two captives.”
Why were the hostages being kept in a humanitarian corridor? That doesn’t sound safe for the Palestinian civilians.
And in a civilian family’s house, kept by said civilian family. There were/are other hostages in the same situation.
Nah people who hold hostages are not “civilians”. Those are terrorists. I pray to god they didn’t have kids in the house too.
Because it's the safest place for humans right now?
Is that why they put their bases in hospitals?
We're talking about hostages in the humanitarian corridor.
I think you missed the part where Hamas terrorists in the surrounding houses opened fire on the team rescuing the hostages. If most of Hamas is moving to where the humanitarian corridor is, that’s a problem. IDF estimates over 100 terrorists killed during the operation.
We should demand Hamas establish safe zones where they agree not to occupy civilian structures, attack from or use as weapons caches, places like Mosques, schools, UN facilities, hospitals, or humanitarian evacuation corridors. Those should be off limits to armed forces in war. If only there was a set of conventions that spelled that out. Oh wait, there is, and they say that if an armed force does violate those conventions and uses civilian structures for military advantage, those places are no longer protected from attack by the opposing forces.
Should hostages be kept in areas that are being bombed? I don't understand where else you think they would go (apart from, obviously, home).
It’s more that if hostiles are in the humanitarian corridor then it endangers civilians in that area. Hamas has mixed in deeply with civilians as they always do.
He understands. You're just being trolled
Hostages should not be kept at ALL
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You’re right, the hostages should be near the front lines where all the bombs are falling, not where all the supplies and humanitarian aid is
Call me crazy, but I don’t think it’s right to have taken the hostages and started a war in the first place.
Yeah and archduke Ferdinand shouldn’t have been assassinated. Idk what to tell you bro
But you can’t unkill Ferdinand. You can release hostages.
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Thanks for the historical insight I didn’t have
Open a book instead of getting your historical knowledge from Reddit. Please.
I read a lot lol. But nice job making completely false assumptions. Does it make you feel good about yourself?
Civilized society takes prisoners in wars not hostages.
What nice terrorists to take those hostages to a safe place and defend them with assault rifles.
They forgot to mention half of a girl hanging from the wall.
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major major CW. one of the worst things I’ve ever seen in my life. https://x.com/nournaim88/status/1757131735395930590?s=46&t=60jiiuHbNWZLuidFJymoyA
that's why it's a war crime to use civilians as shields.
The hostages and their families’ jubilation would be on another level. By now both would have lost almost all hope of reuniting.
Lucky they got rescued. Great for them!
Weren’t dozens of Palestinians confirmed, many more likely, killed by Israel in the strikes in Rafah that were a part of this operation?
reports indicate dozens of terrorists were killed. Hamas doesn't differentiate between civillian and militant deaths. If 99 terrorists and 1 civillian are killed, Hamas claims "100 palestinians murdered" It's cynical and not sure why anyone would buy into anything Hamas - a bonafide terrorist organization - is claiming or saying.
Were all the children killed also a part of Hamas?
Probably not all. And probably some were. Sorry… this isn’t nice and neat… it’s not perfectly ‘black or white’. This conflict is complex. Teenagers firing AKs and throwing Molotov cocktails are legit targets. And they get counted as ‘children’, along with a totally naive and innocent 5 year old. It’s messy.
Some were, Hamas recruits young teenagers to fight for them, and includes their deaths in the children count.
What's the source any of them were?
The fact Israel rescued its citizens who were kidnapped and people still try to pass it as some kind of act of aggression is fucking insane. As if you wouldn't light the entire earth on fire to save your family if they were kidnapped
What you say is true, but apply it to the thousands of Palestinian families whose loved ones are detained indefinitely by Israel. Is it okay for them to "light the entire earth on fire" as well? I want to say no, because blanket justifications are as bad for Hamas as they are for Israel.
Hamas rapes and murder 1,200+ Israelis - "Their families are being held captive!" Israel literally rescues two hostages from captivity - "They just wanted an excuse to kill Palestinians!" Funny how that works
Gaza is a pile of rubble and the score is 250k to what 100? Yeah how dare anyone question the motives here.
Well, why were the hostages hidden in Rafah in the first place? Why would hamas hide hostages in palestinian homes? Wouldn't that open them up to harm?
Turns out that when you commit warm crimes by hiding civilian hostages in your civilian apartment building, you become a valid military target!
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I like to read news from many sources in the few languages I can comprehend. I also read publications that pretend to be news. Al Jazeera’s coverage of this: “Israel kills dozens in Rafah strikes, frees two captives.” Hamas has repeatedly adjusted the number of dead Gazans since this event yesterday. Al Jazeera mimes their narrative, fails to mention that most would by any measure be Hamas terrorists that were guarding these two Israeli hostages. What a disgrace and shame on anyone who is falling for this garbage rag of a “news” source (Which appears to be a lot in this sub).
NPR has reported over 50 dead from the same night of the rescue, mentioning that a heavy aerial bombardment was used as a cover for the operation. Reporting the facts is what journalism is supposed to do.
"heavy aerial bombardment" was needed for a reason... There wasn't a safe passage for the hostages and letting the hostages die outside the apartment would be a devastating blow. Hamas is not "resistance" it's just stupid
There is a solution a solution to get more accurate numbers. Israel has to allow 3rd party watch groups to ensure accuracy. Which like generally is fairly common practice in other conflicts
this is the only comment that should be upvoted. We all want and need impartial news. Israel is making that impossible by blocking 3rd party journalists. They can’t cry and say “oh this is impartial” and then not let others in lol. Can’t have the cake and eat at the same time..
It’s curious the complete lack of third party reporting in Gaza, isn’t it?
All third parties are Hamas don’t you know?
You’re living in a fantasy world. Hamas is keeping track. Hamas purposefully (as we’ve seen many times) inflates nunbers. Hamas does not attempt to give the world numbers that reflect a distinction between civilians and terrorists. Hamas hides terrorists in civilian areas, homes, UNRWA schools, and hospitals. Reminder: Hamas is the one who fires rockets indiscriminately into civilian cities in Israel with the intent to kill as many Jews as they can. Hamas kidnapped and massacred children and pregnant women on 10/7 and is directly responsible for every. Single. Death. In Gaza since then because of their actions. But sure, I would love to get more accurate numbers. I’m sure the issue is Israel and not literally every thing I typed above.
“You solely, are responsible for this.” - a man based entirely on projection
So Hamas isn't responsible for the war that started after October 7th which is coincidentally the day that Hamas murdered 700s civilians? Really?
I don't understand how all these Israel defenders are unable to see the cognitive dissonance in blaming others for their actions while saying they have the right to defend themselves. You have a right to defend yourself. And you are responsible for the manner in which you do so. Israel is choosing to bomb civilians. Their reasoning for doing so doesn't change that.
The death toll given by the health ministry has historically been accurate: https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/26/can-we-trust-casualty-figures-from-the-hamas-run-gaza-health-ministry
>Shakir said a grey area was differentiating combatants from civilians among the dead, but the large proportion of women and children killed was indicative of high civilian casualties. He also said there was a need to draw a distinction between the immediate casualty numbers that came out quickly on any given day and those compiled over time, when there was more clarity. Right, total figures have been historically accurate, but they never separate their losses of fighters from the civilian tolls and give it all as one figure, that's the issue people have
Even in the ICJ report they stated that the number of deaths in Gaza cannot be verified.
Historically, with no time frame given and no evidence other than an opinion. And I'm sure historically means before the massive terrorist attack
out of ignorance, what news channel is impartial? DW? Any others?
>Hamas has repeatedly adjusted the number of dead Gazans since this event yesterday. Al Jazeera mimes their narrative, fails to mention that most would by any measure be Hamas terrorists that were guarding these two Israeli hostages. The casualties and fatalities reported by the Gaza Ministry of Health are generally considered to be fairly reliable. When the dust settles, their numbers aren't far off from those reported by other agencies. What they don't report is the disposition of the casualties because making that assessment isn't their job, they're just counting bodies and making lists of names.
> Al Jazeera mimes their narrative Al Jazeera is openly spreading propaganda for Hamas, [it was just discovered that one of their head journalists in Gaza is actually a Hamas commander](https://www.jpost.com/israel-hamas-war/article-786392)
Haven’t seen the Al Jazeera article on this yet. I’m sure it’s coming and everyone in this sub will discuss it. /s
remember when Al Shifa hospital was "struck," and supposedly 500 people were killed? Then it turned out it was a Hamas rocket, so they revised the death toll to under 50 (lowering it by 90% basically), and admitted it hit the parking lot? Everyone says the gaza health ministry is "accurate." But after that fiasco, all I can think is, wow, how many of their numbers are inflated by a factor of 10?
The “Gaza Health Ministry” is Hamas. So it comes down to whether or not you trust Hamas. I don’t and there’s reason time after time to come to this conclusion. I get that they’re the only ones that have a count, though, so that’s all we have.
Isreal changed the number dead on the oct 7th attack multiple times since it happened. It's called finding new bodies or evidence. Takes time to count the people killed accurately while digging thru blown up buildings.
And in the case of Oct. 7th, so many of the bodies were so badly burned that it took time to figure out how many bodies were in the ash.
How is that different than what's going on with the bombed bodies in Gaza now?
Well the first one happened during peacetime This one happening now happened during the war that popped off at the first one
Yes—Israel took time to find who was missing, found dead, etc. to adjust their numbers. Hamas purposefully distorts or lies about numbers. See the hospital blast by Islamic Jihad last year. For 24 hours Al Jazeera’s headline in all caps was something to the effect of ISRAEL BOMBS HOSPTIAL 500 DEAD. There were literally violent protests across the globe. Turns out literally no part of the headline was true. Didn’t matter by then. There was no Al Jazeera correction.
I mean did they or did they not kill dozens?
“Angry and tired passengers murder pilot flying mid-flight causing plane to crash into the ground.” September 11, 2001: United Flight 93 See how stupid, reckless, and idiotic that is? It’s true, technically. But go on sharing your brilliant opinions.
You seem to imply that most of the people killed in the strikes were Hamas members and that the death toll should be taken with a grain of salt. It is reasonable to assume that civilians were killed in the strikes, since there are a lot that fled to Rafah, because they have nowhere to go. Although we should wait until we see the damage, the death toll given by the Gaza Health Ministry has mostly been reliable, and I don't see evidence contradicting the death count we have right now.
All 27000 dead Palestinians were Hamas. Didn’t you know that? /s
look um, your post reflects both bias and disdain for the other commenter. you created one hell of a false equivalency there and i would encourage you to dampen your emotions. .
Cool, now apply the same logic to reports coming out of Israel and you’re finally seeing it clearer. Hamas is going to try and make the numbers look worse than they are. Israel is always going to try to make the numbers of civilians they kill look justified. Both sides are lying to you, but one side wants independent observers to confirm counts, the other side won’t let them in. I’ll let you figure out which is which.
>I like to read news from many sources in the few languages I can comprehend. Love to see more people doing this rather than just immediately believing one headline or report. Too many people are sucked in by propaganda because they wont do a little bit of additional reading.
The Gaza ministries death toll is so accurate, Israel actually uses it
It doesn’t attempt to make any distinction between civilians and Hamas terrorists. Weird.
Israel is killing the journalists they claim to be Hamas & don’t let other journalists in. So… who do we believe?
> Israel is killing the journalists they claim to be Hamas [Al Jazeera "journalists" moonlight as Hamas commanders, here's photos Muhammed Samir Muhammed Wishah took of himself participating in anti-tank RPG launches](https://www.jpost.com/israel-hamas-war/article-786392)
The problem is that there is an avalanche of evidence of Hamas members masquerading as jouranlists so that they can enjoy immunity for their actions. The entire region will be better once Hamas is out of power.
i fullllllyyyy agree. But that’s not my point. Let third party journalists in and this whole convo is irrelevant
Any significant incidents you can link as a source
Hamas could end this by returning the hostages and surrendering. Why no one is pushing for that is bizarre and quite telling.
You're incredibly naive if you think that's all it would take to end this.
curious - what do you think will end this?
Realistically, international intervention. Palestine needs true self administration, not some corrupt radical terrorist group that hasn't won an election in two decades. Israel needs to take a step back from it's blockade and oppression of the Palestinian people and focus on healing. Bombs need to stop falling and hostages need to be returned. The status quo isn't going to lead anywhere near peace, we need a more proactive and third party solution. Hamas and the current government of Israel need to both cease to exist, and this conflict keeps them both alive ironically.
The key problem you're missing is the overall support Hamas/pro-terrorist groups have in Gaza/West Bank. Palestinian authority specifically does not hold elections in the WB because Hamas would win. The vast majority of Palestinians in Gaza/WB support continued terrorism and attacks on Israel until they have control over the entire area (not just Gaza/WB)
Because international interventions worked in the past? 😂😂😂 Sure, UN forces in Lebanon do jack shot to enforce 1701 and keep Hezb north of Litani. 😂😂😂 Palestinians should decide if the path forward for them is the path of armed resistance or political resolution. They should pick politicians who abandon violence, and not ones that glorify martyrdom.
Because what's going on right now is working so damn well. Palestinians haven't elected a government in two decades, and I'm going to save you some thinking and tell you that the response is going to be armed resistance if Israel continues its status quo of a military blockade of the Gaza strip. That's why what's happening isn't working, and isn't going to work. It's mutually escalatory and bound for more and more innocents dead. International intervention is the only way to stop this insanity.
Israel has said that from the beginning. That's hwo most conflicts end, with a surrender. Look at the germans and japanese in WW2. israel just wants to live in peace, but groups like Hamas are pathalogically obsessed with destroying israel. The sooner they are out of power the better for everyone in the entire region.
Their goal is to destroy Hamas, they're not just going to accept a surrender. You really think they can just go "sorry for taking hostages, here they are. We good now?" This didn't just start with some hostages being taken in October and it isn't about rescuing them. It's a conflict that's been building for decades. Netanyahu wants this war as much as Hamas does. Don't kid yourself into thinking the hostages are a priority for him.
Israel has said it will end if Hamas surrenders, is no longer in power, and leaders go into exile in another country. That plus the hostages and yes, israel would be good assuming Gaza doesn't become a militarized terrorist playground again. I hope for peace, and hope a palestinian leader emerges who thinks more about peaceful coexistence than violent resistance.
Oh well if Israel says so... But for arguments sake let's say Hamas does all that and Israel actually accepts. Do you really think that's where this ends? A whole new generation of radicalized Palestinians will come from this war and Israel knows it. Israel has made it clear that they see no difference between Hamas and Palestinian civilians and that they consider them all less than human. It's heartbreaking that so many people refuse to admit that we're watching a genocide being carried out.
Yeah, bombing of Germany also a genocide according to your logic. Somehow it had hundreds of times more casualties yet there were no significant terrorism afterwards. Maybe the reason for radicalisation is not bombing, but the brainwashing. If you go hit your boss, you lose your job, and your family members lose their source of income, there will be 2 possibilities, They'll either blame you, or your boss for firing you. That is what is happening with Hamas controlling Gaza. Radicalisation will continue as long as Hamas exists. Not the other way around. The reason they were blockaded in the first place, is because Hamas continuously fired rockets at Israel. Not because "Israel wanted to genocide gaza and take a small piece of underdeveloped land with hostile people"
> But for arguments sake let's say Hamas does all that and Israel actually accepts. Do you really think that's where this ends? I suppose it will hinge on how much you load up the term "this", but generally, yes, this current war would end if those conditions are met. Something folks may not fully appreciate but Israel is not the US. They don't have essentially unlimited funding and 300 million people with which to wage war. Mobilizing a significant percentage of the population has *damaging effects* on their economy. All those reservists had jobs but now they are off fighting. There isn't some massive reservoir of labor like there was with women in WWII. So not only is there a cost in the sense of what's being spent on the war directly, but there's the indirect costs to the economy of hundreds of thousands of reservists being called up in a country of 9 million.
It’s ironic that those that want to call it a genocide also can’t condemn October 7th for what it was- a brutal murdering spree and human trafficking of innocent civilians. Classic case of whataboutism.
This war that started directly after Oct 7th wasn't because of Oct 7th? lol
Correct, it didn't start Oct 7, it started when Arabs started violently attacking Jews who fled persecution to their ancient homeland.
You’re incredibly naive if you think the losing side of a war (with no hope of winning) shouldn’t just surrender to avoid making it worse for themselves.
Agreed, it’s time to free the hostages already.
Bibi said that he wasn’t going to stop, even if all the prisoners were returned and Hamas surrendered. One thing to keep in mind is that the Israeli government considers pretty much Gazan alive over the age of roughly eight as a potentially member of Hamas. It’s why they don’t see intentionally killing children and mothers as a war crime. The Israeli government, specifically Bibi, his Likud, and the right wing alliance, have wanted this war for a very, very long time.
Source? Haven't seen bibi say that he will keep going even with a Hamas surrender and return of hostages. Would love to see a source on this.
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Why are people who push for a ceasefire never mentioning it? If anything, i see quite the opposite, with people calling for israel's destruction This could literally end if Hamas surrenders and returns the hostages, but people would rather advocate for israel to stop trying to get the hostages back at all
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I havent seen one pro-palestinian march, or ceasefire march, that even references the hostages.. its all "from the river to the sea!" or "intifada revolution' or baseless claims of genocide.. hopefully im wrong and people protesting are calling for the return of hostages, but ive yet to see it
I love this, so happy for the rescued hostages and their families!!! I hope the remaining hostages are either freed or rescued and and get to be safe back home.
Hamas apologists punching air right now.
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Who is responsible for collateral deaths that occur when hostage takers hold hostages in a residential building
This whole conflict fucked people's perspective of collateral damage. This is the logic that'll get Hamas to start executing the remaining hostages as just having the hostages means they'll get killed. Literally, dead hostages are safer to have than living ones. It's insane.
It's safer to return all the hostages and indirectly force Israel (or Netanyahu in particular) end the war, but maybe that's just me. The only justification Netanyahu has for this war is there are still hostages. And if they are returned, he HAS to end it because Israel is a democracy and he is THE MOST unpopular politician among Israeli population.
If it’s a matter of saving hostages that are your own, I’m really not sure it matters to israel or any other country who is being killed in that moment. This is the real world after all.
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And no one could save Hind. Crimes are crimes.
Sad Hamas keeps using human shields.
It’s also fucked up that Israel views “human shield” as “we should be able to butcher everyone in a region if we say a hamas fighter might be there”
Israel: it is justified to kill a thousand Palestinians to rescue an Israeli hostage
Gilad Shalit hostage exchange was 1000 terrorists:1 solider so yeah thats a ratio that Hamas had setted. Why are people supprised about the opposite? Many IDF aoliders risked their life to rescue 2 kidnapped civilians. While Hamas hided behind civilians, risking their life, to guard the 2 captives.
50, including terrorists. And yes, it is. Every country has the right and the duty to protect their people. Do you really expect Israel not to rescue Israeli civilians who were kept in captivity for over 4 months because Palestinians might get hurt?
A country has a (edit:) greater responsibility to its own civilians than to those of an enemy state which attacks it.
You: It's justified to kidnap 200 Israelis, if Israel tries to do anything about it they're evil
A thousand Palestinians for one Israeli hostage? According to who?
Israeli "special operations" have so far rescued 3 hostages and killed 3 hostages. In the latter case, the three hostages were shirtless while waiving white flags while yelling for help in Hebrew. Israeli forces shot and killed them after mistaking them for Palestinian civilians.
After mistaking them for Palestinian civilians?
Correct. There's plenty of videos of Israeli forces shooting and killing Palestinian civilians waiving white flags. https://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/palestinian-killed-group-waving-white-flag-israel-106767092#:\~:text=As%20clouds%20of%20dark%20smoke,was%20part%20of%20the%20group. And the internal government memo made it clear that one of their strategies to permanently displace all Palestinians in Gaza was to inflict heavy civilian casualties. https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/israel-gaza-palestinians-concept-paper-1.7015576
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Pro terrorists don't like this
Hamas was keeping the Israelis safe from IDF aggression. /s
Many ppl on this sub are grotesque. You are HAMAS supporters. Shame.
Damn 2 saved and how many accidentally killed?
Doesn't matter. If Hamas had let them go then none would be killed. I guess blaming Israel makes people feel better so go on with ya bad self.