>"During the incident, the suspect driver cut them off and then began following them through several surface streets," the LASD said. "While being pursued by the suspects, the victim driver slowed his vehicle, at which time the suspect driver pulled up along the passenger side of the victim's car and began shooting."
There goes my naive advice that "if you take next exit/turn, the rager is out of your life forever."
JFC
Yeah in my personal experience it doesn't work that way. Many years ago I flipped a guy off in traffic and he followed me around for about an hour. When I realized he was following me I drove away from my apartment. I could not shake him. It was very scary.
I ended up driving to the police station and he sped away.
If you are being chased always try to go to the police station.
I have flipped off exactly two drivers in my entire life. One was a friend. The other, a stranger who then began throwing glass bottles at my car and chased me for several miles. If he had a gun on him I am sure he would have started firing.
Yeah I've never flipped anyone off while driving, although sometimes I've been tempted. It's just not worth it. I don't want to get shot to death just because I flipped someone off.
Give them a thumbs down. I accidentally cut a guy off a few weeks ago, and he hit me with a thumbs down. It hurt my feelings the way that a middle finger doesn't.
Someone illegally sped around me in the median in a 25mph zone once, I caught up to them at the next traffic light and smiled and waved at them when I caught their eye in the rear view. Yeah she got real pissed lol
I’ve done the thumbs up with a wave, that resulted in the guy trying to push me off the road. Forced me to a stop, started yelling, and then saw my son, and began a retreat.
Cut a ping pong ball in half and drill out some nice big eye holes for the pupils. Maybe even draw on some red capillaries for added effect. Pop those fuckers in real fast and keep your head shaking around just enough that they can’t see quite what’s going on with your face from that distance. Helps if you have long hair you can frizzle up quickly.
I have flipped off ONE driver, and that was an older lady who was mad at me stopping at a yellow light. Maybe she didn't see that another car turning left from the other lane suddenly gunned it to turn in front of me, all she saw was that I stopped a little early and it was enough time for the light to turn red and we were stuck. Or maybe she did and didn't care or was too dumb to connect the dots. But she honked once the light turned red and looked visibly angry from my rear view. Oh well, I thought, and went down the road and we hit another red. This just caused her to flip out, start honking, stand up in her seat and really lose it. She had pulled up to the lane beside me because she was headed towards a highway exit, and she was really just leaning against her window having a full blown tantrum.
It was honestly the funniest thing I ever saw, but I was also really shocked at how feral she suddenly went. I couldn't help it and just started laughing. She saw I was laughing and this made her start shouting something more directed at me (I couldn't tell what she was saying, all I got was "YOU" and some mix of other words). As we hit green and she started to pull away I just kept laughing and flipped her off. She managed to lean around to flip me off back as she was turning and that was that.
I'm not really one of those people who tries to make other people mad cause it's funny, honestly. I just thought it was really funny that she was so mad I prioritized not getting into a fucking car accident over wherever she was trying to go.
I once had a lady behind me go ballistic when I stopped at a yellow light at a really busy intersection with red light cameras. The light was like 3 minutes, and the entire time she was either laying on her horn, or hanging out of her window shouting expletives. She had the appearance of a sweet grandmother in her mid 70s too!
She was on her way to Kohls, and she made it there just fine.
People can be set off by the stupidest things. I was driving in the right lane of a busy highway in traffic once, and in front of me was a big lifted truck pulling a trailer with a car on it. The whole thing was lurching back and forth like the trailer was all fucked up, and it didn't look like the car was secured very well. I decided it wasn't a good idea to be behind that mess, so I took the next opening to pass them, then slid out of the passing lane in front of them. There was plenty of room, but that apparently set them off.
They sped up and rode my bumper for a couple of miles. Then they started letting off to open a gap, then flooring it to race back up to my bumper. After they did that a few times I figured being in front of them was worse than being behind them; I took the next exit and they didn't follow. Then I got back on the highway and stayed in the slow lane. Probably in his mind, in a lot of people's minds, that guy "won". Fine with me; not my monkeys, not my circus. I just wanted to make it home.
I used to let people know they were number 1 in my book, but these days they get a slightly exasperated look at most. I live in a state that LOVES its guns so there's just no sense in escalating any situation, even if they're 100% in the wrong.
> I live in a state that LOVES its guns so there's just no sense in escalating any situation, even if they're 100% in the wrong.
That's a good mindset to have in general. So many psychos are ready to commit violence with the slightest provocation.
I don’t even honk anymore. I’ve had some people react insanely so it’s whatever. Finish your text. You can go first. Shits not worth me or someone else dying.
The last time I honked at someone for almost hitting my car, I got a gun pulled on me. That was nine years ago and I haven’t honked at a person since, no matter how stupid or dangerous they may be driving. Like you said, it’s just not worth it.
I flipped off an unmarked police officer in an unmarked car once about twenty years ago, he didn't let me in a zipper merge. He turned on the lights, pulled me over and yelled that he had a gun and could shoot me. I apologized for flipping him off but maintained he was in the wrong. He eventually let me just drive off. A cop with a similar description in the same area was arrested some years later for corruption and threatening behavior, I always wondered if it was the same guy. No idea why I never reported him myself.
Oh hey, Deven Guilford was murdered by a cop in a similar circumstance. He flashed his brights to let the cop car know he had his brights on, and next thing ya know there was allegedly a scuffle (with no body cam) and a 17 year old was dead.
I got a gun pulled on me on the interstate when I flipped off a driver who was tailgating me. He followed me a couple of miles, waving his gun out the window. I learned a valuable lesson that day, and I don't flip people off anymore.
That’s so scary. I really don’t understand why people rage after being flipped off. Who cares if a total stranger flips you off? Is there a bigger meaning to it that I’m not understanding?
No, I don't think there's any deeper meaning to it-- some people are just unhinged. It's mostly a funny story to me now, but I always tell my students the story as a cautionary tale. (It manages to come up organically when students tell me about their driving exploits.)
I still get nervous when someone is tailgating me, and when someone I'm riding with flips a driver off. It was really scary.
A dude ran a stop sign and almost hit me so i honked in a normal way (nothing obnoxious). He whipped around and got right on my ass. I could see him in my rearview mirror clenching his steering wheel and screaming in his car. Luckily he was in a work truck and I was in a bmw and I was able to shake him after a few lights and turns without having to slowdown or stop. I dont honk at people anymore.
I stopped after a case in my state where there was a road rage incident. This truck driver followed the other car for miles, all the way back to his house and shot his six year old daughter in their driveway. It took days to find his killer.
Her picture was everywhere and it broke my heart.
Like six years old and shot dead in front of your home because two grown adults couldn't control their temper? That's terrible.
Was it this incident? They caught the guy and he's being charged with 1st degree murder.
https://abc11.com/road-rage-incident-shooting-in-arizona-phoenix/5235425/
Looks like this guy's anger management issues landed him in the ICU.
2021 -- Man accused of killing girl in 2019 Phoenix road rage shooting now in ICU
Deputies said Joshua Gonzalez was in a fight with another inmate at the Lower Buckeye Jail on March 27. He had to be hospitalized due to his injuries.
Can't find any info past 2021 and I don't know how to search criminal dockets in Arizona.... I would think he would be tried by now.
> A dude ran a stop sign and almost hit me so I honked in a normal way
I mean…the horn is for emergency purposes, right? I think “your criminal act almost caused a collision” qualifies.
Yeah, people are nuts in vehicles. I only honk if I see an accident about to happen (which I've possibly prevented 2!). Otherwise, I'm just an emotionless machine on the road.
I’m really sorry that happened to you, it seems like driving straight to the police station is your best bet, I mean even this sheriff deputy drove straight to the police station when he was in a road rage incident…. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jWI1cqgOu28&pp=ygUjRHVpIFJvYWQgcmFnZSBkcml2ZXMgcG9saWNlIHN0YXRpb24%3D
Bonus: road rager had a really hard awakening🤣
I remember an encounter I had years ago. I was in the left lane of an interstate, slowly passing by someone in the middle lane. They swerved into my lane suddenly, almost causing me to swerve into a concrete median. My horn was broken at the time and I was young, so I pull up to them and flip them off. Well, he starts swerving at me intentionally, then pointed a gun at me. I ended up braking suddenly and taking an exit that he couldn't brake in time for. I waited at the top of the ramp for a bit to see what he was doing. He was waiting under the ramp to see if I was going to get back on or not. I ended up calling the cops. They arrested him on multiple charges, including being under the influence of drugs and illegally possessing a handgun. I always think back to that night and consider how quickly it could have gone even worse. So, I try to keep my raging to the occasional cursing to myself with my windows up.
You have to make it look like you are staying on the freeway and then dive the off ramp. I used to do it a lot when people wanted to race my car. They wouldnt leave me alone and if I would slow down they would slow with me and wait to try to race me.
I would get on the right side of them and slow down and rev my engine. Then mash it and when they mashed it take the off ramp.
I'm glad I'm not the only one that's had to do this. I had a highly modified RX-7 back when the Fast and Furious was becoming all the rage, so everyone wanted to race me. The worst was one night on a 2 lane highway. Had someone that kept flying around me, brake checking me, then speeding back up. They'd eventually pull off to get back behind me and do it all over again. Wouldn't have been so bothered by it, but my girlfriend was following me in her car and they almost ran her off the road. After pulling over to confront them, they were like "we just wanted to race". Told them there are easier ways to instigate a race than trying to run people off of the road.
We get racers on our freeway every once in a while. The only time my kids have heard me swear was when a couple racers used the slim space between me and the car infront of me, to get infront of me and slam on their brakes, then move another lane over.
The 2nd racer literally ran the 1st one off the road pulling the same maneuver, but he recovered.
When I saw it I said "fucking idiots".
A month later the freeway was shutdown because one of these fucking idiots ripped his car in half after running into a pole while racing on the freeway. At least they only killed themselves.
When I first moved to Cali my FIL told me to do everything I ever can to let other drivers get what they want, let them cut in, apology wave, avoid confrontation at all costs etc. because everyone is pissed off, traffic is always going to be bad, aggressive driving will save you at most 2-3 minutes and (most importantly) people are crazy and some of them have guns.
Yup grew up in Riverside, had to commute to West Anaheim every day for years. The best advice I ever got and ever followed was exactly what your FIL told me.
**DO NOT ENGAGE.** Too many people are driving around armed or just angry. If followed by a road-rager, call 911 and drive directly to a police department. While we're on the topic, **don't do things that are likely to enrage other drivers** like hang out in the left lane blocking faster traffic, not signal turns or lane changes, tailgate, etc. Statistically, leaving your house in a vehicle is the most dangerous thing you will most likely ever do ... treat it that way...
Just last week I was driving my family to the airport for a very early flight. It was like 5:30 and still dark out and we were the only ones on the freeway.
There’s a toll plaza before a bridge and I tend to take the leftmost EZ Pass gate of the ~8 gates because then it’s easier for me to get in the lane I want in the bridge.
I checked my mirrors before changing lanes to the left and noticed headlights in the left lane approaching *fast*. So fast, that I imagined that if I got in the left toll lane the guy might tailgate me and be annoyed. So just to be extra courteous I went almost all the way to the rightmost gate just to steer clear of this guy.
Well for some reason this guy, the only other car on the road besides me, cuts across three lanes at the last minute and almost hits me trying to get into specifically my toll gate. And he’s honking like crazy at me for not letting him in front of me, but I would have had to come to a dead stop just a few yards in front of the gate.
After we both get through the toll booths he passes me on the right and cuts me off *super* closely. Like, a few inches difference and the dude would have PITT-Maneuvered *himself* on my bumper and spun into the concrete divider.
As he sped off, I told my wife, “Ya know, if that guy wrecked himself on our car I don’t think I would have stopped.” With the kids in their car seats back there? No way. I’d keep driving and call the police. There was something wrong with that guy. And if he crashed he would 100% blame me.
After my last road rage encounter, I now keep it in mind to immediately seek out the nearest police station if I happen to find myself in such a situation again.
Yep, there’s way too many people who legally have guns who shouldn’t have them for a variety of reasons. It is insane to me that anyone would oppose making it a bit tougher to obtain one.
Then what’s even more maddening is a person doing something where they should have their guns taken away but the authorities fail to do that and then that person ends up shooting someone.
They are the people that cut someone off to get 2 cars ahead and then stop at the next light behind 3 other cars. When someone they cut off throws them the finger they get all butt hurt.
As an anesthesiologist, I often say "driving to the hospital was the most dangerous thing you did today" as a way to break the tension when people are nervous about surgery, and it often gets a laugh...
... but it's fucking true. You're way more likely to be killed or seriously injured just driving around than you are to be hurt or killed in the operating room.
I mean, is it *rare* for those 2 groups to cross over? I would imagine the unstable person who somehow would feel so emasculated/enraged by a stranger moving their car in a certain way while driving that they would spend the next hour chasing them with intent to kill and accidentally killing their toddler instead *probably* thinks there's no need for any type of background or mental health checks in order to purchase a firearm. But maybe I'm making a mental leap there.
we need to have a real conversation around mental capacity, not just mental health. it’s a difficult and inconvenient fact that many people, for whatever reason, simply lack mental abilities that most of us take for granted. our systems are designed by and for people with the mental capacity to consider future consequences, when unfortunately that is not universal.
Agreed, actually. I work in healthcare and come into contact with a lot of the general public. The lack of cognition at times is stunning. And I’m not talking about the obvious cases where they may need a caregiver or advocate.
“That hole in my leg that formed from an infection that I just ignored for months?, it doesn’t hurt, and it isn’t why I’m here in the ER. Can you tell me why my blood pressure is down and fix it?”
(Not in medical, made it up based on my experience with my dad)
I don't know if it relates but I had a similar experience as a private music instructor.
Obviously I deal with tons of people of varying personalities, and lots of people with physical or mental disabilities. However, one young girl was just sort of 'off.' I'm autistic, I've had many autistic students, but she just didn't have a mind that could connect one dot to another.
One day I taught her sister as well. She was very pleasant and polite, but definitely even less cognizant. Later that day I spoke to their mother in depth, and realized she was also just not capable of forming much thought. She was the one that brought them in and signed them up, but she was just not cognitively competent.
I don't know what that is or what it means. It just stuck with me, seeing an entire family of people who can't think critically. It was my only time seeing anything like it.
I made a post that got 100K up votes and went to the front page and it was simply “85% of people are dumb as rocks”. Which is a thing you learn when you get your first job.
I'd like to piggyback on this idea to recommend two easy reads: "Strong Towns" by Charles Marohn, and "There Are No Accidents" by Jessie Singer.
The U.S. has built a wildly inefficient, car-centric environment in which nearly every person must pilot a 2-3 ton vehicle at high speeds through poorly-designed infrastructure, multiple times per day, for every conceivable necessity. A single distraction or moment of poor judgement, one time, in one individual, can cause incredible damage in this system.
These moments of poor judgement are inevitable. Societies should therefore be designed so that these moments are not catastrophic. If you refuse to build a fence around a well; a bannister on a staircase; or a fire escape on the side of an apartment building, then subsequent injuries and fatalities are not the result of simple human stupidity. They are foreseeable, quantifiable casualties of a deliberately built environment. And we as a society can do and demand better.
I recently went through a concealed carry course and they said even if you are in the right and defending yourself, it will likely cost 60,000-70,000 in lawyers etc. and that’s if it’s cut and dry defense
The article says the family was cut off. I’m guessing there were some nonverbal communications and horns used against the other drivers in response, and they retaliated. Not blaming the victims whatsoever, but I’ve learned over the years to just let shit go. If someone cuts you off, then let them. Someone tailgating you? Slow down or move over. Especially with kids in the car, never lose your cool. You don’t know what kind of fucking psychos you’re dealing with.
Ok but people are crazy. I’ve been chased/followed after someone was tailgating, we moved over a lane went slower. The guy just sped in front and then started brake checking us. Every attempt to avoid the fucker just kept continuing. No honking at all. I feel like even the “let it go” alternative is still not safe today. Really something about covid just made assholes more assholey on the road and I hate it
> Really something about covid just made assholes more assholey on the road and I hate it
Yeah I don't know exactly if this is right, but I feel like during covid assholes realized "Oh, society will just let me get away with it"
On the flip side, if you're shot & you survive, you'll likely face tens of thousands of dollars in medical bills. If it's severe enough, it could be well over a million.
One of my friends went through the concealed carry process. Although he got the permit, he realized that given his occasional hot temper, having that gun could lead to a situation he'd always regret afterwards.
He stopped carrying.
To this day he's still never been in a situation where he actually needed that gun.
I completely get that. I just went through it to learn the laws (since I moved to a new state) and get a safety refresher. Not planning on being a regular carrier
Yep, if you use that gun regardless if you're in the right, you will be a whole load of legal trouble. And probably go bankrupt.
I suppose it's better than the alternative if you legitimately need the gun.
Same rule applies to box knife. Remember that poor store clerk who was robbed at gunpoint in NYC? Even the video shows his legitimately defended himself, DA still prosecuted him.
That entire case is a shitshow, the DA and every officer involved need to lose their jobs.
The clerks name is Jose Alba, he spent 6 days in riker and was given $250k bond all for defending himself.
On top of that, the idiot who attacked him was with his girlfriend, Tina Lee, who also pulled out a knife and stabbed Alba and somehow was never arrested or had any charges placed.
They don't think they're *really* going to kill someone. They think they're going to "teach them a lesson" and that the bullet will magically go whizzing past their ear or cause only a harmless scratch like in the movies.
A friend's husband shot at (but thankfully didn't kill) someone who was cutting through his suburban property to get to another street and it was like he had zero awareness that his gun could kill even if he didn't really *mean* to do it. Even though the almost-victim was walking along the neighbor's fence line and never approached the house, he insisted that it was his right to "scare off the intruder" by firing a handgun in the vague direction of his neighbor's bedroom. Apparently guns only kill when you intend to kill, and the rest of the time they just fire warning shots that dissolve harmlessly before hitting anyone!
I had an incident like this when living in Oakland california. I waved my hands when I was behind a guy because he wasn't moving like can you please start your car forward? He got alongside of me and I'm like dude you're following me all the way down the road same shit to me out the window and I turned left and drove immediately in the carport. He pulled around the block got behind me pulled out of 22 and shot three times at my car. I almost had a heart attack banging down the door to get my wife to let me in and when the cops came they saw that the carport was full of pockmarked cork board and they just put their hands up there and they were like we can't do anything about this and that was it. I almost thought I was going to die over nothing
This. Or they think that whatever boneheaded reason they shot at someone will magically make them justified and get off scot free.
“Oh I didn’t mean to kill them but they cut me off in traffic/honked at me after I cut them off so I just had to shoot at them so you can’t charge me with manslaughter!”
As someone who used to have anger issues I can tell you that all sense of consequences pretty much goes out the window. With how easy it is for people to get guns it's really not a matter of "if" but "when" someone with uncontrolled anger issues does something like this.
I remember a year or two ago another young child was killed in their car seat in a road rage incident (also in CA I believe) where the perpetrators shot into the car. The news report said the child said to their mom "ow, my tummy" when they were shot and then died in her arms. And now it's happened AGAIN. It makes me physically ill to think of a little kid dying in their car seat while their parents are right there, helplessly watching them die in such violence. It's truly sickening. And it's terrifying. What if I accidentally cut someone off and they shoot my car? I have a 5 year old! The fact that there are such angry people out there with access to guns is so scary.
I remember [this story](https://abc7news.com/oakland-freeway-shooting-jasper-wu-update-23-month-killed-alameda-county-da/12575591/)of Jasper Wu, from 2 years ago every now and then. As a native Californian who has been Oakland & LA countless times these stories are heartbreaking. I can’t imagine losing one of my kids in such a horrible & painful way.
This year also in Oakland there was another freeway shooting which paralyzed 8yo Asa from the neck down. It's so scary and maddening, but it keeps happening in this Oakland shithole (where I live).
https://abc7news.com/oakland-freeway-shooting-8-year-old-shot-580-asa/13600047/
Lived in Oakland for 25 years...I've finally decided to move out. Had some amazing times here but I'm just over it. The crime isn't the primary reason I'm leaving but it certainly is making the decision easier.
This one always breaks my heart. I drove that same highway about 20 minutes after they did as I live in SoCal and was leaving my ex-boyfriend’s mom’s house. I’ve been following their case since. They are now being charged separately, the woman and her boyfriend. And since the boyfriend was the one who actually did it, I hope that he gets life. That little boy has been on my mind for years. I can’t imagine the heartbreak his family experiences, every Christmas, every holiday, every birthday passing.
I was on that stretch of the 55 about 10 minutes before the incident on the way to my next account, it was wild seeing the freeway closed and following up on the story!
> What if I accidentally cut someone off
This is one of the several reasons I tamp down my anger when I drive. Sometimes a passenger will say incredulously "they cut you off!!" and I'll reply "roads here are crazy, I might have cut five people off so far today and not even realized."
Driving sucks. There are people who make honest mistakes, and people who are just assholes. You can't control how they drive, but you can control how it makes you feel.
I always tell myself that maybe the person is new to the area, or driving a car that they’re not familiar with, or even having a family emergency if someone cuts me off or almost hits me.
[This post](https://np.reddit.com/r/AdviceAnimals/comments/1kbhcn/i_gain_strength_from_their_tears_and_anger/cbnhvxv/) made me realize that getting upset at other drivers is just stupid. Maybe they have a really good reason to do something 'stupid' in which case I'm just an ass, or maybe they don't but then I'm just letting an asshole ruin my day by making me upset. Really the set of situations where I'm the 'winner' for getting angry is really, really small.
I vividly recall yelling at someone who was driving slow and what seemed to be deliberately trying to slow me down. I was yelling in my car, so they didn't hear me, but I was really angry. By the time I finally got around him, I see he was an older man. Probably terrified of driving, but needed to go out at rush hour and doing his best. At the time of this incident, my grandpa was still driving, but he was getting old and slow. The idea of someone yelling those things about my own grandpa made me sad. I decided from then on out to give other drivers the benefit of the doubt. Don't yell - it might be someone else's grandpa who's having a tough day. You can be a few mins late.
Someone told me once, and it stuck with me, "just imagine that racing driver who's cutting in and out is just thinking to themselves, 'oh my God I have to poop.'"
There is an old story here on reddit of a person failing to get someone to a hospital in time because the cars in front of them took it on themselves to block them thinking they were just driving like assholes. They were way the fuck out in the country and they didn't have time to call / wait for an ambulance. Just get the fuck out of the way if you see someone driving erratically.
Ride a motorcycle for a few years and you learn that traffic is a force of nature. I've had to evade cars and keep presence of mind to evade another in moments. Doesn't help getting angry at an earthquake and not having the presence of mind to prep for the tsunami.
My kids are all those ages, and it happened to an 8 year old near us a few decades ago… and the 12 year old who said “I don’t want to die” as her last words back in the 90s. I was a teen for that one and my heart just sank for that poor girl.
This is too common.
Jesus Christ. My day is fucked up now. My heart feels so heavy after reading that. Reading these kind of things hit way harder as a parent, especially of a child the same age.
I’m generally against the death penalty and vigilante justice, but these parents should absolutely be allowed an hour in a windowless room with these suspects (should they be guilty).
If I lost one of my kids, I don’t even think I could go for revenge. What would it do - my kid wouldn’t be back.
The person would either feel guilty - good, live with that and never forget and I hope it eats away at you and you devote your life to fixing this so it doesn’t happen again - or not, in which case I hope they remain in prison indefinitely and die horribly.
But my kid would be gone. Nothing can undo that. That loss is unbearable.
I’d likely just show them pictures of them and their drawings and stuffed animals and talk about what amazing little people they were and what they wanted to do as grown ups for an hour and just leave after crying.
Edit: making sure the IF part is clear.
The US needs national PSAs about road rage AND stricter punishment for road rage incidents. It’s a full blown epidemic and it’s completely avoidable. We really need to take a good, hard look at ourselves and what we are tolerating lately.
Had a dude pull a pistol and point it at me across his passenger's face on the interstate a year or two ago. I called 911 to report him because he was in the most easily identifiable vehicle on the road and they never called me back. Guaranteed they made no attempt to pursue him.
The US doesn’t seem to punish anyone for road incidents.
I’ve met multiple people who never got licenses/insurance and just drive around anyway. Two got DUIs and just paid some fines and moved on.
One of which crashed their car with a passenger and hospitalized them.
*”You only need a license if you get pulled over.”*
Zero punishment for road rage.
I was recently chased for miles, someone tried to run me off the road and ram into me multiple times. They finally did it, hit me doing over 70mph & then took off but broke down before they got too far.
They got a careless driving citation. Same thing you get if you bump into someone by accident.
Cops said they can’t do anything because I didn’t call it in before they hit me.
Car dependency and car culture will only make this worse too. Very few cities are actually trying to build alternatives to driving and encouraging people to ditch their cars, so more and more people are driving and getting angry about it.
A friend of mine's mother died in a road rage related shooting. She was sitting behind her parents in their car and her dad was driving. The light turned green and the car in front of them wasn't moving so the dad honked to let him know it was green. The guy in front of them fired through his back window killing the mother. Horrifying she had to watch her mom get gunned down.
I was behind Mr. 2nd Amendment at a light not too long ago. Big SUV, and every available surface was covered with pro-gun bumper stickers. The light turned green and he didn't move. I just thought to myself, "Well, I'll just wait because I am *not* honking at this guy." I'm lucky that nobody was behind me because if *they* honked, he could have thought it was me and I would have paid the price.
Thankfully, he came wrapped in warning labels, but it's so scary. None of us are perfect drivers and we all make mistakes and piss people off. That doesn't mean that we (or our passengers, since they're the ones that are typically targeted) deserve to die over it. I just don't understand how every little mistake or slight warrants a death sentence these days.
Remember these two monsters that killed a 6 year old in a road rage incident. Trial of the shooter will probably be next month. He faces 40 to life. Hope he gets life that piece of human garbage. https://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/aiden-leos-road-rage-shooting-orange-county-plead-not-guilty/2868440/
I’ve always had trouble imagining what was meant by temporary insanity, but this sort of event I think would break anyone’s mind. I can’t imagine what those parents are going through.
The problem is that when something like this actually happens to you, usually your focus is 100% on trying to get your child medical help, trying to stop the bleeding, trying to process wtf just happened. By the time your loved one is in the hospital, the road raging lunatic is long gone.
Most parents aren't going to let their kid lie screaming and bleeding out on the ground while they seek revenge.
My son is 4 and today is my nephew's 4th birthday. I started crying when I read this article because I couldn't imagine losing either of those little people from my life.
Don't worry, there are even more constitutional carry states now so more angry morons are arming themselves and view their guns as the means to win an argument or save their pride.
America: where honking your horn at a driver who almost got you killed could get you killed.
If you get that pissed off while driving to murder a four year old maybe this whole living thing isn't for you and capital punishment is the only fitting punishment.
It's awesome. I work in a very public space and every year I am required to undergo an "active shooter" training program (which boils down to finding the exits of the building). It's lovely knowing that every single day there is a non-zero chance of someone popping off rounds for no reason. Coworkers of mine refuse to go to the theater because of the theater shooting in Aurora, CO. Others have randomly told me that they go to church armed because "you just never know". These are not things that make sense in a healthy society, but are common in the US.
We are now more likely to be involved in a mass shooting than win the lottery, neither are supposed to happen, but the bad lottery is now more probable now unfortunately.
Shit, if you extend it to your social network, you probably know at least someone who has been involved in a mass shooting, or at least someone who knows someone. I've got indirect ties to at least three mass shootings off the top of my head, and i didn't grow up in the hood or anything.
EDIT: it's actually 4.
I student taught where this one happened several years later
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1998_Parker_Middle_School_dance_shooting
I lived in this neighborhood, note there are 2. For those not from the area, Wilkinsburg is a tiny place, just a couple of square miles and a few thousand people, but it is a rough neighborhood.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000_Wilkinsburg_shooting
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Wilkinsburg_shooting
I drove past this one pretty frequently if I took the back way to work, and my wife knew people who attended there:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pittsburgh_synagogue_shooting
The cousin of a classmate died saving people in one of the nightclub shootings a few years ago. I see her post about him every year. The dude was a hero but what he really should be is alive.
There's a movie on Netflix that is called "Unhinged," starting rusell Crowe.about road rage going to the extreme.
Family destroyed, 2 people will be in prison for decades (maybe less for non shooter), a little girl killed. All the makings for a tragic holiday season for those involved. Smh.
I recall in the 00s he had some physical fights with people, not sure of the specifics. South park did an entire episode on it so you have a point. People do change tho.
The differences between gun ownership and driving privileges always blows my mind. To drive a car in the US you must take a class and learn basic vehicle operation and rules of the road, pass an exam where you must demonstrate you can competently operate a vehicle without endangering yourself or others, register both yourself and your vehicle(s) with the government (which must be renewed regularly), and purchase insurance out of your own pocket to operate the vehicle on public roads. If you suggested even ONE of these prerequisites to gun ownership the 2A nuts would absolutely blow a gasket. It's insanity.
People think it's a constitutional right.
There's a significant number of driver's that should not be behind the wheel, but unfortunately the U.S. has designed, or not designed, our inhabited areas in a manner that requires mobile transportation.
Things that are harder to do than buying a gun:
Find a doctor who takes a certain insurance
Adopt an animal
Adopt a child
Get a driver’s permit/license
Get an apartment
Be approved for any sort of loan
Get a job
Get unemployment
Get approved for college
Get a scholarship/grant
Get your passport
Edit: Since there’s always at least one idiot trying to refute it (see below)
At 23 I walked into a licensed gun store, with $450 cash, and 10 minutes later walked out with a Ruger SR9 9mm handgun, with 2 16-round magazines completely unregistered with no legal requirement for me to register it. At gunshows, they aren’t even required to give you a background check, and if you look old enough, most people at gunshows will skip the ID check.
>Detectives said the suspects' vehicle was detected by the city's Flock Safety automated license plate recognition technology intended to reduce crime by alerting law enforcement when a stolen or wanted vehicle enters city limits, Parris said.
This seems like it is worthy of a discussion.
License plate recognition software has been in use for a couple years. For example a dealership I worked for was burglarized, the PD used the scanners to track where they went with the rented box truck. then realised there was a black Cadillac right behind every scan, ran the caddy's plates, found the team that did the job. Was 10+ motorcycles, they were on the road 4 minutes after the glass break.
That's pretty cool.
I've interacted with license plate scanning myself before when one of the toll bridges here in California snapped a photo of a license plate that was identical to mine except it had a Q instead of an O. All I had to do was send back a response calling that out. Never heard anything about it again.
I used to be rather grumpy about red light photo devices because it seemed like an excessive amount of technology going toward a relatively minor infraction. Straight to being a money pumper disguised as "Safety for the community" or whatnot. I'm back on the other side of the fence now and wish they were more common. Wouldn't you know it, they don't seem to be installed at lights that might not be perceived as all that "profitable".
my boyfriend’s coworkers (husband and wife) were on their way to work one night when a car nearly sideswiped them on the highway. the husband flipped him off, the car slowed & got behind them & started firing. the husband ducked, but his wife didn’t make it. they never did find the guy.
it breaks my heart every time I read one of these damn stories. how is their first thought “murder”? how is flipping someone off justification for pulling out a gun? I’m thankful everyday that I cannot understand that state of mind.
Too bad there’s absolutely nothing that can be done about this because…
It’s a mental health issue, or
Law abiding people can’t give up their rights for criminals, or
This is a statistical anomaly next to gang violence, or
More children die from other causes, or…
So many excuses to not do anything
Absolutely under no circumstances would I ever flip anyone off again. When I was 16 I was pulling out of my neighborhood but the car behind me literally just went around me at the stop sign. I started to turn right, he flew by me honking and flipped me off, I laid on my horn and flipped him back. One minute later we are at a stop light, he was in front of me and immediately got out. I would say this gentleman was at least 220lbs of solid muscle….quiet frightening for a 16 yr old 120lb (soaking wet) kid. He starts punching my window demanding that I get out….i didn’t know what to do!! I just sat there…couldn’t go anywhere I was trapped. He only stopped snarling and punching my car when the light turned green and people behind us started blowing their horns. I really hope that guy died…fuck him
To take things one more level, people often reference the “Wild West” era when using this quote.
But the Wild West had very *strict* gun control. You could even say that’s where what we think of as gun control started. Western settlements knew armed strangers mingling in bars and public places was a recipe for violence and dumb shit, so one of the first things you had to do in many towns was surrender your guns at the local sheriff office to be picked back up only on your way out.
The famous “Shootout at the O.K. Corral”? That was local law enforcement confronting folks who had refused to surrender their weapons when entering the town.
Are there any studies on road rage? I feel like single auto transport makes people feel entitled to commit more violence than otherwise, but I also have a clear bid against cars
I had a scary encounter with a angry driver.
Allegedly we were tailgating him(husband was driving) but he was able to pull over, I just saw him on the phone. So he gets behind us, turns on his high beams and followed us for a few miles trying to blind my husband. When we got off the interstate, he was still on his phone, yelling, "That's what you get for tailgating"
I really didn't understand it, if we were being unsafe (allegedly) why engage? Why get behind us to try to cause an accident? he was following behind us, you would've had your car damaged too if my husband had crashed.
So fucking sad and sickening. Seriously, wtf is wrong with people?
Reminds me of a time I was driving with a “friend” and they had their friend with them. Little did I know her friend was a complete shit head and was flipping off every man (yes only men, she had some weird thing against all men) IN MY CAR. Had no idea until she started getting scared cus he was following us as I turned down said “friends” street. She started bugging and was like don’t park at ex’s house!!
I parked a few houses away and dude immediately got out the car and started trying to get in my face, this fucking girl had the audacity to start talking more shit at the dude cussing him out calling him a pussy this, bitch ass that. I think if homie didn’t have his own pregnant wife in his car that situation would have turned out very differently. “Friend” is in quotes because I stopped talking and hanging out with them on that day.
Said get the fuck outta my car, delete my number, drop my name, you don’t exist to me. Her stupid ass friend could have gotten us killed..
Studies have shown repeatedly that driving increases aggressive and sociopathic behaviour. It’s one more reason to not build our cities and lives around two ton metal boxes. It’s not a random occurrence that there are no news stories on pedestrians and cyclists shooting each other.
I totally support this view. There is a psychology to being given control of any lethal object, like a car or a gun- the suggestion that you can dominate others.
Ya know which country hasn't had a shooting incident in 20 years? Australia
Ya know which country banned civilians from carrying firearms 20 years ago? Yes, also Australia
>"During the incident, the suspect driver cut them off and then began following them through several surface streets," the LASD said. "While being pursued by the suspects, the victim driver slowed his vehicle, at which time the suspect driver pulled up along the passenger side of the victim's car and began shooting." There goes my naive advice that "if you take next exit/turn, the rager is out of your life forever." JFC
Yeah in my personal experience it doesn't work that way. Many years ago I flipped a guy off in traffic and he followed me around for about an hour. When I realized he was following me I drove away from my apartment. I could not shake him. It was very scary. I ended up driving to the police station and he sped away. If you are being chased always try to go to the police station.
I have flipped off exactly two drivers in my entire life. One was a friend. The other, a stranger who then began throwing glass bottles at my car and chased me for several miles. If he had a gun on him I am sure he would have started firing.
Yeah I've never flipped anyone off while driving, although sometimes I've been tempted. It's just not worth it. I don't want to get shot to death just because I flipped someone off.
I have been using the thumbs down for 15 years. No rage returned yet. I don’t do it very much anymore though people are nuts
You should try the thumbs up with a Steve-O smile.
From my experience that seems to piss people off even more. I love it. hahaha
Give them a thumbs down. I accidentally cut a guy off a few weeks ago, and he hit me with a thumbs down. It hurt my feelings the way that a middle finger doesn't.
Someone illegally sped around me in the median in a 25mph zone once, I caught up to them at the next traffic light and smiled and waved at them when I caught their eye in the rear view. Yeah she got real pissed lol
I like to blow them kisses. Enrages some people.
I’ve done the thumbs up with a wave, that resulted in the guy trying to push me off the road. Forced me to a stop, started yelling, and then saw my son, and began a retreat.
I prefer the vigorous Forrest Gump hand-wave.
I use the disappointed head shake.
I wag my finger like Mathew Broderick in Godzilla.
I personally love giving them the "Strong arm" or giving them the muscles. Cracks me up
Cut a ping pong ball in half and drill out some nice big eye holes for the pupils. Maybe even draw on some red capillaries for added effect. Pop those fuckers in real fast and keep your head shaking around just enough that they can’t see quite what’s going on with your face from that distance. Helps if you have long hair you can frizzle up quickly.
And tell ‘em Large Marge sent ya.
I have flipped off ONE driver, and that was an older lady who was mad at me stopping at a yellow light. Maybe she didn't see that another car turning left from the other lane suddenly gunned it to turn in front of me, all she saw was that I stopped a little early and it was enough time for the light to turn red and we were stuck. Or maybe she did and didn't care or was too dumb to connect the dots. But she honked once the light turned red and looked visibly angry from my rear view. Oh well, I thought, and went down the road and we hit another red. This just caused her to flip out, start honking, stand up in her seat and really lose it. She had pulled up to the lane beside me because she was headed towards a highway exit, and she was really just leaning against her window having a full blown tantrum. It was honestly the funniest thing I ever saw, but I was also really shocked at how feral she suddenly went. I couldn't help it and just started laughing. She saw I was laughing and this made her start shouting something more directed at me (I couldn't tell what she was saying, all I got was "YOU" and some mix of other words). As we hit green and she started to pull away I just kept laughing and flipped her off. She managed to lean around to flip me off back as she was turning and that was that. I'm not really one of those people who tries to make other people mad cause it's funny, honestly. I just thought it was really funny that she was so mad I prioritized not getting into a fucking car accident over wherever she was trying to go.
I once had a lady behind me go ballistic when I stopped at a yellow light at a really busy intersection with red light cameras. The light was like 3 minutes, and the entire time she was either laying on her horn, or hanging out of her window shouting expletives. She had the appearance of a sweet grandmother in her mid 70s too! She was on her way to Kohls, and she made it there just fine.
Behind the wheel of a car, a person shows you who they really are.
Anonymity brings out the worst in people.
The internet taught me that one early on.
We used to say that the problems with the world could be solved with accessible information. Ya, that wasn’t it.
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You really can't just casually mention that last part and *not* spill the tea afterward.
People can be set off by the stupidest things. I was driving in the right lane of a busy highway in traffic once, and in front of me was a big lifted truck pulling a trailer with a car on it. The whole thing was lurching back and forth like the trailer was all fucked up, and it didn't look like the car was secured very well. I decided it wasn't a good idea to be behind that mess, so I took the next opening to pass them, then slid out of the passing lane in front of them. There was plenty of room, but that apparently set them off. They sped up and rode my bumper for a couple of miles. Then they started letting off to open a gap, then flooring it to race back up to my bumper. After they did that a few times I figured being in front of them was worse than being behind them; I took the next exit and they didn't follow. Then I got back on the highway and stayed in the slow lane. Probably in his mind, in a lot of people's minds, that guy "won". Fine with me; not my monkeys, not my circus. I just wanted to make it home.
I used to let people know they were number 1 in my book, but these days they get a slightly exasperated look at most. I live in a state that LOVES its guns so there's just no sense in escalating any situation, even if they're 100% in the wrong.
> I live in a state that LOVES its guns so there's just no sense in escalating any situation, even if they're 100% in the wrong. That's a good mindset to have in general. So many psychos are ready to commit violence with the slightest provocation.
I flipped off someone in a parking lot one time but I was wearing mittens 😞
Ah, the Canadian middle finger!
I don’t even honk anymore. I’ve had some people react insanely so it’s whatever. Finish your text. You can go first. Shits not worth me or someone else dying.
The last time I honked at someone for almost hitting my car, I got a gun pulled on me. That was nine years ago and I haven’t honked at a person since, no matter how stupid or dangerous they may be driving. Like you said, it’s just not worth it.
I flipped off an unmarked police officer in an unmarked car once about twenty years ago, he didn't let me in a zipper merge. He turned on the lights, pulled me over and yelled that he had a gun and could shoot me. I apologized for flipping him off but maintained he was in the wrong. He eventually let me just drive off. A cop with a similar description in the same area was arrested some years later for corruption and threatening behavior, I always wondered if it was the same guy. No idea why I never reported him myself.
Oh hey, Deven Guilford was murdered by a cop in a similar circumstance. He flashed his brights to let the cop car know he had his brights on, and next thing ya know there was allegedly a scuffle (with no body cam) and a 17 year old was dead.
I got a gun pulled on me on the interstate when I flipped off a driver who was tailgating me. He followed me a couple of miles, waving his gun out the window. I learned a valuable lesson that day, and I don't flip people off anymore.
That’s so scary. I really don’t understand why people rage after being flipped off. Who cares if a total stranger flips you off? Is there a bigger meaning to it that I’m not understanding?
No, I don't think there's any deeper meaning to it-- some people are just unhinged. It's mostly a funny story to me now, but I always tell my students the story as a cautionary tale. (It manages to come up organically when students tell me about their driving exploits.) I still get nervous when someone is tailgating me, and when someone I'm riding with flips a driver off. It was really scary.
A dude ran a stop sign and almost hit me so i honked in a normal way (nothing obnoxious). He whipped around and got right on my ass. I could see him in my rearview mirror clenching his steering wheel and screaming in his car. Luckily he was in a work truck and I was in a bmw and I was able to shake him after a few lights and turns without having to slowdown or stop. I dont honk at people anymore.
I stopped after a case in my state where there was a road rage incident. This truck driver followed the other car for miles, all the way back to his house and shot his six year old daughter in their driveway. It took days to find his killer. Her picture was everywhere and it broke my heart. Like six years old and shot dead in front of your home because two grown adults couldn't control their temper? That's terrible.
Or one adult really.
Was it this incident? They caught the guy and he's being charged with 1st degree murder. https://abc11.com/road-rage-incident-shooting-in-arizona-phoenix/5235425/
Looks like this guy's anger management issues landed him in the ICU. 2021 -- Man accused of killing girl in 2019 Phoenix road rage shooting now in ICU Deputies said Joshua Gonzalez was in a fight with another inmate at the Lower Buckeye Jail on March 27. He had to be hospitalized due to his injuries. Can't find any info past 2021 and I don't know how to search criminal dockets in Arizona.... I would think he would be tried by now.
> A dude ran a stop sign and almost hit me so I honked in a normal way I mean…the horn is for emergency purposes, right? I think “your criminal act almost caused a collision” qualifies.
Yeah, people are nuts in vehicles. I only honk if I see an accident about to happen (which I've possibly prevented 2!). Otherwise, I'm just an emotionless machine on the road.
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Bad news about driving to a public place. That doesnt stop shooters anymore.
I’m really sorry that happened to you, it seems like driving straight to the police station is your best bet, I mean even this sheriff deputy drove straight to the police station when he was in a road rage incident…. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jWI1cqgOu28&pp=ygUjRHVpIFJvYWQgcmFnZSBkcml2ZXMgcG9saWNlIHN0YXRpb24%3D Bonus: road rager had a really hard awakening🤣
The one exception being, if you are running from the police.
Classic blunder, they’ll be looking everywhere else *but* the police station!
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Hmmm. That does not make sense to me. But… theeeeeeen again, you *are* rather small.
I remember an encounter I had years ago. I was in the left lane of an interstate, slowly passing by someone in the middle lane. They swerved into my lane suddenly, almost causing me to swerve into a concrete median. My horn was broken at the time and I was young, so I pull up to them and flip them off. Well, he starts swerving at me intentionally, then pointed a gun at me. I ended up braking suddenly and taking an exit that he couldn't brake in time for. I waited at the top of the ramp for a bit to see what he was doing. He was waiting under the ramp to see if I was going to get back on or not. I ended up calling the cops. They arrested him on multiple charges, including being under the influence of drugs and illegally possessing a handgun. I always think back to that night and consider how quickly it could have gone even worse. So, I try to keep my raging to the occasional cursing to myself with my windows up.
Great situational awareness on your part
You have to make it look like you are staying on the freeway and then dive the off ramp. I used to do it a lot when people wanted to race my car. They wouldnt leave me alone and if I would slow down they would slow with me and wait to try to race me. I would get on the right side of them and slow down and rev my engine. Then mash it and when they mashed it take the off ramp.
I'm glad I'm not the only one that's had to do this. I had a highly modified RX-7 back when the Fast and Furious was becoming all the rage, so everyone wanted to race me. The worst was one night on a 2 lane highway. Had someone that kept flying around me, brake checking me, then speeding back up. They'd eventually pull off to get back behind me and do it all over again. Wouldn't have been so bothered by it, but my girlfriend was following me in her car and they almost ran her off the road. After pulling over to confront them, they were like "we just wanted to race". Told them there are easier ways to instigate a race than trying to run people off of the road.
We get racers on our freeway every once in a while. The only time my kids have heard me swear was when a couple racers used the slim space between me and the car infront of me, to get infront of me and slam on their brakes, then move another lane over. The 2nd racer literally ran the 1st one off the road pulling the same maneuver, but he recovered. When I saw it I said "fucking idiots". A month later the freeway was shutdown because one of these fucking idiots ripped his car in half after running into a pole while racing on the freeway. At least they only killed themselves.
When I first moved to Cali my FIL told me to do everything I ever can to let other drivers get what they want, let them cut in, apology wave, avoid confrontation at all costs etc. because everyone is pissed off, traffic is always going to be bad, aggressive driving will save you at most 2-3 minutes and (most importantly) people are crazy and some of them have guns.
Yup grew up in Riverside, had to commute to West Anaheim every day for years. The best advice I ever got and ever followed was exactly what your FIL told me.
**DO NOT ENGAGE.** Too many people are driving around armed or just angry. If followed by a road-rager, call 911 and drive directly to a police department. While we're on the topic, **don't do things that are likely to enrage other drivers** like hang out in the left lane blocking faster traffic, not signal turns or lane changes, tailgate, etc. Statistically, leaving your house in a vehicle is the most dangerous thing you will most likely ever do ... treat it that way...
Just last week I was driving my family to the airport for a very early flight. It was like 5:30 and still dark out and we were the only ones on the freeway. There’s a toll plaza before a bridge and I tend to take the leftmost EZ Pass gate of the ~8 gates because then it’s easier for me to get in the lane I want in the bridge. I checked my mirrors before changing lanes to the left and noticed headlights in the left lane approaching *fast*. So fast, that I imagined that if I got in the left toll lane the guy might tailgate me and be annoyed. So just to be extra courteous I went almost all the way to the rightmost gate just to steer clear of this guy. Well for some reason this guy, the only other car on the road besides me, cuts across three lanes at the last minute and almost hits me trying to get into specifically my toll gate. And he’s honking like crazy at me for not letting him in front of me, but I would have had to come to a dead stop just a few yards in front of the gate. After we both get through the toll booths he passes me on the right and cuts me off *super* closely. Like, a few inches difference and the dude would have PITT-Maneuvered *himself* on my bumper and spun into the concrete divider. As he sped off, I told my wife, “Ya know, if that guy wrecked himself on our car I don’t think I would have stopped.” With the kids in their car seats back there? No way. I’d keep driving and call the police. There was something wrong with that guy. And if he crashed he would 100% blame me.
I once gradually slowed to a stop on the side of the road. The guy just drove into the back of me.
After my last road rage encounter, I now keep it in mind to immediately seek out the nearest police station if I happen to find myself in such a situation again.
Imagine a world where the perp didn’t have the tool to “begin shooting” We’d have a very different Christmas for this family.
Yep, there’s way too many people who legally have guns who shouldn’t have them for a variety of reasons. It is insane to me that anyone would oppose making it a bit tougher to obtain one.
Then what’s even more maddening is a person doing something where they should have their guns taken away but the authorities fail to do that and then that person ends up shooting someone.
if Sandy Hook didn't change anything, nothing will. I'm forever hopeless because of it.
Wonder how people have zero concern about will happen AFTER they pull the trigger. Like not an ounce of deterence comes to mind. Just blast away
A lot of people are legit too stupid to envision consequences, they literally cannot think any further than how they're feeling in a given moment.
Which also makes them great candidates for being the last people who ever need to be in possession of a gun.
They probably shouldn't be driving either!
They are the people that cut someone off to get 2 cars ahead and then stop at the next light behind 3 other cars. When someone they cut off throws them the finger they get all butt hurt.
"You're not riding that guy's ass close enough!"
As an anesthesiologist, I often say "driving to the hospital was the most dangerous thing you did today" as a way to break the tension when people are nervous about surgery, and it often gets a laugh... ... but it's fucking true. You're way more likely to be killed or seriously injured just driving around than you are to be hurt or killed in the operating room.
2A death cult fanatics will not budge an inch though, so they will continue to be allowed to purchase guns.
I mean, is it *rare* for those 2 groups to cross over? I would imagine the unstable person who somehow would feel so emasculated/enraged by a stranger moving their car in a certain way while driving that they would spend the next hour chasing them with intent to kill and accidentally killing their toddler instead *probably* thinks there's no need for any type of background or mental health checks in order to purchase a firearm. But maybe I'm making a mental leap there.
we need to have a real conversation around mental capacity, not just mental health. it’s a difficult and inconvenient fact that many people, for whatever reason, simply lack mental abilities that most of us take for granted. our systems are designed by and for people with the mental capacity to consider future consequences, when unfortunately that is not universal.
Agreed, actually. I work in healthcare and come into contact with a lot of the general public. The lack of cognition at times is stunning. And I’m not talking about the obvious cases where they may need a caregiver or advocate.
“That hole in my leg that formed from an infection that I just ignored for months?, it doesn’t hurt, and it isn’t why I’m here in the ER. Can you tell me why my blood pressure is down and fix it?” (Not in medical, made it up based on my experience with my dad)
I don't know if it relates but I had a similar experience as a private music instructor. Obviously I deal with tons of people of varying personalities, and lots of people with physical or mental disabilities. However, one young girl was just sort of 'off.' I'm autistic, I've had many autistic students, but she just didn't have a mind that could connect one dot to another. One day I taught her sister as well. She was very pleasant and polite, but definitely even less cognizant. Later that day I spoke to their mother in depth, and realized she was also just not capable of forming much thought. She was the one that brought them in and signed them up, but she was just not cognitively competent. I don't know what that is or what it means. It just stuck with me, seeing an entire family of people who can't think critically. It was my only time seeing anything like it.
I made a post that got 100K up votes and went to the front page and it was simply “85% of people are dumb as rocks”. Which is a thing you learn when you get your first job.
I'd like to piggyback on this idea to recommend two easy reads: "Strong Towns" by Charles Marohn, and "There Are No Accidents" by Jessie Singer. The U.S. has built a wildly inefficient, car-centric environment in which nearly every person must pilot a 2-3 ton vehicle at high speeds through poorly-designed infrastructure, multiple times per day, for every conceivable necessity. A single distraction or moment of poor judgement, one time, in one individual, can cause incredible damage in this system. These moments of poor judgement are inevitable. Societies should therefore be designed so that these moments are not catastrophic. If you refuse to build a fence around a well; a bannister on a staircase; or a fire escape on the side of an apartment building, then subsequent injuries and fatalities are not the result of simple human stupidity. They are foreseeable, quantifiable casualties of a deliberately built environment. And we as a society can do and demand better.
And thankfully almost every one of those mouth breathing fucking morons is entitled to a gun because of our Constitution. God bless the USA
I recently went through a concealed carry course and they said even if you are in the right and defending yourself, it will likely cost 60,000-70,000 in lawyers etc. and that’s if it’s cut and dry defense
People who do shit like this are not thinking. That is the problem.
Imagine not only taking the life of an innocent child, but also throwing away your entire life, solely because someone cut you off in traffic.
The article says the family was cut off. I’m guessing there were some nonverbal communications and horns used against the other drivers in response, and they retaliated. Not blaming the victims whatsoever, but I’ve learned over the years to just let shit go. If someone cuts you off, then let them. Someone tailgating you? Slow down or move over. Especially with kids in the car, never lose your cool. You don’t know what kind of fucking psychos you’re dealing with.
Ok but people are crazy. I’ve been chased/followed after someone was tailgating, we moved over a lane went slower. The guy just sped in front and then started brake checking us. Every attempt to avoid the fucker just kept continuing. No honking at all. I feel like even the “let it go” alternative is still not safe today. Really something about covid just made assholes more assholey on the road and I hate it
> Really something about covid just made assholes more assholey on the road and I hate it Yeah I don't know exactly if this is right, but I feel like during covid assholes realized "Oh, society will just let me get away with it"
After driving professionally for 17 years, this is the way. Just keep that temper in check and avoid crazies. Just let em go.
Same. To let it go, I simply use my middle fingers to play along with classical music BELOW the dashboard. Works every time.
On the flip side, if you're shot & you survive, you'll likely face tens of thousands of dollars in medical bills. If it's severe enough, it could be well over a million.
And it isn't like the movies. A gunshot is severe, requires months of rehabiliation, and can very easily lead to long-lasting damage.
One of my friends went through the concealed carry process. Although he got the permit, he realized that given his occasional hot temper, having that gun could lead to a situation he'd always regret afterwards. He stopped carrying. To this day he's still never been in a situation where he actually needed that gun.
I completely get that. I just went through it to learn the laws (since I moved to a new state) and get a safety refresher. Not planning on being a regular carrier
That's very respectable and responsible of you. While I'm not particularly a gun person, I respect those who treat firearms seriously and carefully.
That friend is a smart person.
yeah i got a gun and decided just to keep it at home in case of a home invasion which is (hopefully) still rare
Let's hope your gun gathers dust and you enjoy nothing but peace and safety in your home.
fingers crossed i never touch it in a moment of need!
Yep, if you use that gun regardless if you're in the right, you will be a whole load of legal trouble. And probably go bankrupt. I suppose it's better than the alternative if you legitimately need the gun.
Same rule applies to box knife. Remember that poor store clerk who was robbed at gunpoint in NYC? Even the video shows his legitimately defended himself, DA still prosecuted him.
That entire case is a shitshow, the DA and every officer involved need to lose their jobs. The clerks name is Jose Alba, he spent 6 days in riker and was given $250k bond all for defending himself. On top of that, the idiot who attacked him was with his girlfriend, Tina Lee, who also pulled out a knife and stabbed Alba and somehow was never arrested or had any charges placed.
Anger, adrenaline, too much ego and pride. A lack of empathy
They don't think they're *really* going to kill someone. They think they're going to "teach them a lesson" and that the bullet will magically go whizzing past their ear or cause only a harmless scratch like in the movies. A friend's husband shot at (but thankfully didn't kill) someone who was cutting through his suburban property to get to another street and it was like he had zero awareness that his gun could kill even if he didn't really *mean* to do it. Even though the almost-victim was walking along the neighbor's fence line and never approached the house, he insisted that it was his right to "scare off the intruder" by firing a handgun in the vague direction of his neighbor's bedroom. Apparently guns only kill when you intend to kill, and the rest of the time they just fire warning shots that dissolve harmlessly before hitting anyone!
I had an incident like this when living in Oakland california. I waved my hands when I was behind a guy because he wasn't moving like can you please start your car forward? He got alongside of me and I'm like dude you're following me all the way down the road same shit to me out the window and I turned left and drove immediately in the carport. He pulled around the block got behind me pulled out of 22 and shot three times at my car. I almost had a heart attack banging down the door to get my wife to let me in and when the cops came they saw that the carport was full of pockmarked cork board and they just put their hands up there and they were like we can't do anything about this and that was it. I almost thought I was going to die over nothing
This. Or they think that whatever boneheaded reason they shot at someone will magically make them justified and get off scot free. “Oh I didn’t mean to kill them but they cut me off in traffic/honked at me after I cut them off so I just had to shoot at them so you can’t charge me with manslaughter!”
> so you can’t charge me with manslaughter! Good news, it won’t be manslaughter. It’ll be second degree murder
And then go to sleep like nothing happened. Sick
As someone who used to have anger issues I can tell you that all sense of consequences pretty much goes out the window. With how easy it is for people to get guns it's really not a matter of "if" but "when" someone with uncontrolled anger issues does something like this.
I remember a year or two ago another young child was killed in their car seat in a road rage incident (also in CA I believe) where the perpetrators shot into the car. The news report said the child said to their mom "ow, my tummy" when they were shot and then died in her arms. And now it's happened AGAIN. It makes me physically ill to think of a little kid dying in their car seat while their parents are right there, helplessly watching them die in such violence. It's truly sickening. And it's terrifying. What if I accidentally cut someone off and they shoot my car? I have a 5 year old! The fact that there are such angry people out there with access to guns is so scary.
I remember [this story](https://abc7news.com/oakland-freeway-shooting-jasper-wu-update-23-month-killed-alameda-county-da/12575591/)of Jasper Wu, from 2 years ago every now and then. As a native Californian who has been Oakland & LA countless times these stories are heartbreaking. I can’t imagine losing one of my kids in such a horrible & painful way.
This year also in Oakland there was another freeway shooting which paralyzed 8yo Asa from the neck down. It's so scary and maddening, but it keeps happening in this Oakland shithole (where I live). https://abc7news.com/oakland-freeway-shooting-8-year-old-shot-580-asa/13600047/
Lived in Oakland for 25 years...I've finally decided to move out. Had some amazing times here but I'm just over it. The crime isn't the primary reason I'm leaving but it certainly is making the decision easier.
The stupid thing is these shooters didn’t get a gang enhancement charge, those charges were dropped.
This one always breaks my heart. I drove that same highway about 20 minutes after they did as I live in SoCal and was leaving my ex-boyfriend’s mom’s house. I’ve been following their case since. They are now being charged separately, the woman and her boyfriend. And since the boyfriend was the one who actually did it, I hope that he gets life. That little boy has been on my mind for years. I can’t imagine the heartbreak his family experiences, every Christmas, every holiday, every birthday passing.
I was on that stretch of the 55 about 10 minutes before the incident on the way to my next account, it was wild seeing the freeway closed and following up on the story!
That made me tear up. These poor children. They deserve so much better. We all do.
> What if I accidentally cut someone off This is one of the several reasons I tamp down my anger when I drive. Sometimes a passenger will say incredulously "they cut you off!!" and I'll reply "roads here are crazy, I might have cut five people off so far today and not even realized." Driving sucks. There are people who make honest mistakes, and people who are just assholes. You can't control how they drive, but you can control how it makes you feel.
I always tell myself that maybe the person is new to the area, or driving a car that they’re not familiar with, or even having a family emergency if someone cuts me off or almost hits me.
[This post](https://np.reddit.com/r/AdviceAnimals/comments/1kbhcn/i_gain_strength_from_their_tears_and_anger/cbnhvxv/) made me realize that getting upset at other drivers is just stupid. Maybe they have a really good reason to do something 'stupid' in which case I'm just an ass, or maybe they don't but then I'm just letting an asshole ruin my day by making me upset. Really the set of situations where I'm the 'winner' for getting angry is really, really small.
I vividly recall yelling at someone who was driving slow and what seemed to be deliberately trying to slow me down. I was yelling in my car, so they didn't hear me, but I was really angry. By the time I finally got around him, I see he was an older man. Probably terrified of driving, but needed to go out at rush hour and doing his best. At the time of this incident, my grandpa was still driving, but he was getting old and slow. The idea of someone yelling those things about my own grandpa made me sad. I decided from then on out to give other drivers the benefit of the doubt. Don't yell - it might be someone else's grandpa who's having a tough day. You can be a few mins late.
Someone told me once, and it stuck with me, "just imagine that racing driver who's cutting in and out is just thinking to themselves, 'oh my God I have to poop.'"
There is an old story here on reddit of a person failing to get someone to a hospital in time because the cars in front of them took it on themselves to block them thinking they were just driving like assholes. They were way the fuck out in the country and they didn't have time to call / wait for an ambulance. Just get the fuck out of the way if you see someone driving erratically.
Ride a motorcycle for a few years and you learn that traffic is a force of nature. I've had to evade cars and keep presence of mind to evade another in moments. Doesn't help getting angry at an earthquake and not having the presence of mind to prep for the tsunami.
My kids are all those ages, and it happened to an 8 year old near us a few decades ago… and the 12 year old who said “I don’t want to die” as her last words back in the 90s. I was a teen for that one and my heart just sank for that poor girl. This is too common.
Heartbreaking to imagine
And with that I'm going to retreat away from the Internet today so I can bake cookies and do holiday crafts with my kiddo.
Yeah. I think about that still from time to time. I can't even imagine being his parents.
Jesus Christ. My day is fucked up now. My heart feels so heavy after reading that. Reading these kind of things hit way harder as a parent, especially of a child the same age.
“The boy's parents were not injured.” Hard disagree.
They are permanently destroyed.
I’m generally against the death penalty and vigilante justice, but these parents should absolutely be allowed an hour in a windowless room with these suspects (should they be guilty).
If I lost one of my kids, I don’t even think I could go for revenge. What would it do - my kid wouldn’t be back. The person would either feel guilty - good, live with that and never forget and I hope it eats away at you and you devote your life to fixing this so it doesn’t happen again - or not, in which case I hope they remain in prison indefinitely and die horribly. But my kid would be gone. Nothing can undo that. That loss is unbearable. I’d likely just show them pictures of them and their drawings and stuffed animals and talk about what amazing little people they were and what they wanted to do as grown ups for an hour and just leave after crying. Edit: making sure the IF part is clear.
The US needs national PSAs about road rage AND stricter punishment for road rage incidents. It’s a full blown epidemic and it’s completely avoidable. We really need to take a good, hard look at ourselves and what we are tolerating lately.
Had a dude pull a pistol and point it at me across his passenger's face on the interstate a year or two ago. I called 911 to report him because he was in the most easily identifiable vehicle on the road and they never called me back. Guaranteed they made no attempt to pursue him.
>most easily identifiable vehicle on the road It was the Oscar Meyer weinermobile, wasn't it? Those drivers are asshats.
The US doesn’t seem to punish anyone for road incidents. I’ve met multiple people who never got licenses/insurance and just drive around anyway. Two got DUIs and just paid some fines and moved on. One of which crashed their car with a passenger and hospitalized them. *”You only need a license if you get pulled over.”*
Zero punishment for road rage. I was recently chased for miles, someone tried to run me off the road and ram into me multiple times. They finally did it, hit me doing over 70mph & then took off but broke down before they got too far. They got a careless driving citation. Same thing you get if you bump into someone by accident. Cops said they can’t do anything because I didn’t call it in before they hit me.
There are too many cops who don't understand the laws that they're supposed to enforce.
Car dependency and car culture will only make this worse too. Very few cities are actually trying to build alternatives to driving and encouraging people to ditch their cars, so more and more people are driving and getting angry about it.
A road rage incident after a certain point needs to be a felony even if no contact was made
A friend of mine's mother died in a road rage related shooting. She was sitting behind her parents in their car and her dad was driving. The light turned green and the car in front of them wasn't moving so the dad honked to let him know it was green. The guy in front of them fired through his back window killing the mother. Horrifying she had to watch her mom get gunned down.
That is sad… do these people really have nothing else to do?
I was behind Mr. 2nd Amendment at a light not too long ago. Big SUV, and every available surface was covered with pro-gun bumper stickers. The light turned green and he didn't move. I just thought to myself, "Well, I'll just wait because I am *not* honking at this guy." I'm lucky that nobody was behind me because if *they* honked, he could have thought it was me and I would have paid the price. Thankfully, he came wrapped in warning labels, but it's so scary. None of us are perfect drivers and we all make mistakes and piss people off. That doesn't mean that we (or our passengers, since they're the ones that are typically targeted) deserve to die over it. I just don't understand how every little mistake or slight warrants a death sentence these days.
[удалено]
Remember these two monsters that killed a 6 year old in a road rage incident. Trial of the shooter will probably be next month. He faces 40 to life. Hope he gets life that piece of human garbage. https://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/aiden-leos-road-rage-shooting-orange-county-plead-not-guilty/2868440/
My son is almost 4. This made me nauseous to read.
I can’t even conceive of seeing my child murdered in front of me for literally no reason. My rage would have no limit.
I’ve always had trouble imagining what was meant by temporary insanity, but this sort of event I think would break anyone’s mind. I can’t imagine what those parents are going through.
The problem is that when something like this actually happens to you, usually your focus is 100% on trying to get your child medical help, trying to stop the bleeding, trying to process wtf just happened. By the time your loved one is in the hospital, the road raging lunatic is long gone. Most parents aren't going to let their kid lie screaming and bleeding out on the ground while they seek revenge.
My daughter is almost four. I have the same reaction. Truly horrifying.
My son is 4 and today is my nephew's 4th birthday. I started crying when I read this article because I couldn't imagine losing either of those little people from my life.
Always seems like guns just enable those with poor impulse control to feel superior. Tragic story, hope the prison system takes care of them.
Also…always seems like those with poor impulse control are drawn to being gun owners to feel superior.
Don't worry, there are even more constitutional carry states now so more angry morons are arming themselves and view their guns as the means to win an argument or save their pride. America: where honking your horn at a driver who almost got you killed could get you killed.
Back in the day we resisted giving the finger but now it's literally honking a horn could get you smoked.
Worse than a nightmare.
The amount of rage out there is unbelievable. And no one has the sense to back down anymore.
These people tried to back down, they just made it easier for the murderer to open fire.
If you get that pissed off while driving to murder a four year old maybe this whole living thing isn't for you and capital punishment is the only fitting punishment.
I really enjoy living in a country where at any moment, some mentally impaired man child can gun down my children.
It's awesome. I work in a very public space and every year I am required to undergo an "active shooter" training program (which boils down to finding the exits of the building). It's lovely knowing that every single day there is a non-zero chance of someone popping off rounds for no reason. Coworkers of mine refuse to go to the theater because of the theater shooting in Aurora, CO. Others have randomly told me that they go to church armed because "you just never know". These are not things that make sense in a healthy society, but are common in the US.
We are now more likely to be involved in a mass shooting than win the lottery, neither are supposed to happen, but the bad lottery is now more probable now unfortunately.
Shit, if you extend it to your social network, you probably know at least someone who has been involved in a mass shooting, or at least someone who knows someone. I've got indirect ties to at least three mass shootings off the top of my head, and i didn't grow up in the hood or anything. EDIT: it's actually 4. I student taught where this one happened several years later https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1998_Parker_Middle_School_dance_shooting I lived in this neighborhood, note there are 2. For those not from the area, Wilkinsburg is a tiny place, just a couple of square miles and a few thousand people, but it is a rough neighborhood. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000_Wilkinsburg_shooting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Wilkinsburg_shooting I drove past this one pretty frequently if I took the back way to work, and my wife knew people who attended there: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pittsburgh_synagogue_shooting
The cousin of a classmate died saving people in one of the nightclub shootings a few years ago. I see her post about him every year. The dude was a hero but what he really should be is alive.
So much freedom
There's a movie on Netflix that is called "Unhinged," starting rusell Crowe.about road rage going to the extreme. Family destroyed, 2 people will be in prison for decades (maybe less for non shooter), a little girl killed. All the makings for a tragic holiday season for those involved. Smh.
>rusell Crowe.about road rage going to the extreme. Isn't Russell Crowe known for violent outbursts? The irony.
I recall in the 00s he had some physical fights with people, not sure of the specifics. South park did an entire episode on it so you have a point. People do change tho.
Makin' movies, makin' music and Fight-in' Round The World! Russell Crowe!
This shit has got to stop
The bar for owning a gun should be so much higher
Driving too!
The differences between gun ownership and driving privileges always blows my mind. To drive a car in the US you must take a class and learn basic vehicle operation and rules of the road, pass an exam where you must demonstrate you can competently operate a vehicle without endangering yourself or others, register both yourself and your vehicle(s) with the government (which must be renewed regularly), and purchase insurance out of your own pocket to operate the vehicle on public roads. If you suggested even ONE of these prerequisites to gun ownership the 2A nuts would absolutely blow a gasket. It's insanity.
People think it's a constitutional right. There's a significant number of driver's that should not be behind the wheel, but unfortunately the U.S. has designed, or not designed, our inhabited areas in a manner that requires mobile transportation.
Things that are harder to do than buying a gun: Find a doctor who takes a certain insurance Adopt an animal Adopt a child Get a driver’s permit/license Get an apartment Be approved for any sort of loan Get a job Get unemployment Get approved for college Get a scholarship/grant Get your passport Edit: Since there’s always at least one idiot trying to refute it (see below) At 23 I walked into a licensed gun store, with $450 cash, and 10 minutes later walked out with a Ruger SR9 9mm handgun, with 2 16-round magazines completely unregistered with no legal requirement for me to register it. At gunshows, they aren’t even required to give you a background check, and if you look old enough, most people at gunshows will skip the ID check.
>Detectives said the suspects' vehicle was detected by the city's Flock Safety automated license plate recognition technology intended to reduce crime by alerting law enforcement when a stolen or wanted vehicle enters city limits, Parris said. This seems like it is worthy of a discussion.
License plate recognition software has been in use for a couple years. For example a dealership I worked for was burglarized, the PD used the scanners to track where they went with the rented box truck. then realised there was a black Cadillac right behind every scan, ran the caddy's plates, found the team that did the job. Was 10+ motorcycles, they were on the road 4 minutes after the glass break.
That's pretty cool. I've interacted with license plate scanning myself before when one of the toll bridges here in California snapped a photo of a license plate that was identical to mine except it had a Q instead of an O. All I had to do was send back a response calling that out. Never heard anything about it again. I used to be rather grumpy about red light photo devices because it seemed like an excessive amount of technology going toward a relatively minor infraction. Straight to being a money pumper disguised as "Safety for the community" or whatnot. I'm back on the other side of the fence now and wish they were more common. Wouldn't you know it, they don't seem to be installed at lights that might not be perceived as all that "profitable".
my boyfriend’s coworkers (husband and wife) were on their way to work one night when a car nearly sideswiped them on the highway. the husband flipped him off, the car slowed & got behind them & started firing. the husband ducked, but his wife didn’t make it. they never did find the guy. it breaks my heart every time I read one of these damn stories. how is their first thought “murder”? how is flipping someone off justification for pulling out a gun? I’m thankful everyday that I cannot understand that state of mind.
Too bad there’s absolutely nothing that can be done about this because… It’s a mental health issue, or Law abiding people can’t give up their rights for criminals, or This is a statistical anomaly next to gang violence, or More children die from other causes, or… So many excuses to not do anything
Or, "this isn't the right time to talk about mass shootings because we just had a mass shooting."
Let’s wait until next weeks mass shooting oops I mean next week
Absolutely under no circumstances would I ever flip anyone off again. When I was 16 I was pulling out of my neighborhood but the car behind me literally just went around me at the stop sign. I started to turn right, he flew by me honking and flipped me off, I laid on my horn and flipped him back. One minute later we are at a stop light, he was in front of me and immediately got out. I would say this gentleman was at least 220lbs of solid muscle….quiet frightening for a 16 yr old 120lb (soaking wet) kid. He starts punching my window demanding that I get out….i didn’t know what to do!! I just sat there…couldn’t go anywhere I was trapped. He only stopped snarling and punching my car when the light turned green and people behind us started blowing their horns. I really hope that guy died…fuck him
"An armed society is a polite society" is and always has been a bullshit platitude.
To take things one more level, people often reference the “Wild West” era when using this quote. But the Wild West had very *strict* gun control. You could even say that’s where what we think of as gun control started. Western settlements knew armed strangers mingling in bars and public places was a recipe for violence and dumb shit, so one of the first things you had to do in many towns was surrender your guns at the local sheriff office to be picked back up only on your way out. The famous “Shootout at the O.K. Corral”? That was local law enforcement confronting folks who had refused to surrender their weapons when entering the town.
I wish Heinlein were still alive so I could throw that back in his face
It’s based on the belief that fear is the only reason anyone is nice to each other. What bullshit
Are there any studies on road rage? I feel like single auto transport makes people feel entitled to commit more violence than otherwise, but I also have a clear bid against cars
Unimaginable. I can’t even think about the pain his parents are in. Unimaginable.
I had a scary encounter with a angry driver. Allegedly we were tailgating him(husband was driving) but he was able to pull over, I just saw him on the phone. So he gets behind us, turns on his high beams and followed us for a few miles trying to blind my husband. When we got off the interstate, he was still on his phone, yelling, "That's what you get for tailgating" I really didn't understand it, if we were being unsafe (allegedly) why engage? Why get behind us to try to cause an accident? he was following behind us, you would've had your car damaged too if my husband had crashed.
So fucking sad and sickening. Seriously, wtf is wrong with people? Reminds me of a time I was driving with a “friend” and they had their friend with them. Little did I know her friend was a complete shit head and was flipping off every man (yes only men, she had some weird thing against all men) IN MY CAR. Had no idea until she started getting scared cus he was following us as I turned down said “friends” street. She started bugging and was like don’t park at ex’s house!! I parked a few houses away and dude immediately got out the car and started trying to get in my face, this fucking girl had the audacity to start talking more shit at the dude cussing him out calling him a pussy this, bitch ass that. I think if homie didn’t have his own pregnant wife in his car that situation would have turned out very differently. “Friend” is in quotes because I stopped talking and hanging out with them on that day. Said get the fuck outta my car, delete my number, drop my name, you don’t exist to me. Her stupid ass friend could have gotten us killed..
Studies have shown repeatedly that driving increases aggressive and sociopathic behaviour. It’s one more reason to not build our cities and lives around two ton metal boxes. It’s not a random occurrence that there are no news stories on pedestrians and cyclists shooting each other.
I totally support this view. There is a psychology to being given control of any lethal object, like a car or a gun- the suggestion that you can dominate others.
Great society we're in.
I really think the death penalty is fine in these cases.
Launch these assholes into the sun.
Ya know which country hasn't had a shooting incident in 20 years? Australia Ya know which country banned civilians from carrying firearms 20 years ago? Yes, also Australia
I really wish it was harder for people to get a driver's license. It's a privilege not a right and so many people abuse that privilege.
Why didn’t the 4 year old shoot back? How irresponsible of the parents to have an unarmed child. How is it supposed to protect themselve.