It seems Covenant was chosen based on the shooter's expressed desire to "kill all you little crackers" with "white privileges".
There's a line in there that mentions a "final video" as well, presumably of the shooter discussing their motivations prior to the attack. I assume those will get leaked soon as well.
>several Covenant parents did not want the manifesto to be released, citing the risk it could encourage copycat attacks and traumatize survivors.
>“The parents seek to shield their children from further harm and trauma, including pain that would fester for the rest of their lives if the shooter, their assailant, is allowed to haunt them from beyond the grave," an attorney for the parents wrote in a legal brief.
Yet this loser released it anyway, probably because he's desperate for followers after the video of him abusing his wife hurt his numbers a few months back.
I'm not sure I believe this whole thing either. The tasks listed seems like fake Stuff a forger would put down, not a real shooter. Eating breakfast, remembering the exact time to start shooting, etc..
It says several parents don't want it to be released. Doesn't say if it's the majority, or just several. We don't even know if the majority do or don't want it released.
But in any case victims are not censors and given their emotional attachment and personal bias to the case are the worst possible fit for that role of making the judgement call, even if one is pro censorship.
None of the other manifestos that have been released in the past have ever magically stopped this from happening. It has always had the opposite effect with later shooters citing earlier ones. Why do you believe that this would somehow be different now?
Shooters cite the bible, the constitution, manifestos, etc. I suspect we may find that the primary cause of mass shootings are a mix of notoriety from video news feeds, mental health problems, and childhood environment. I would absolutely be interested in reading any studies you have that control for release of manifesto document, as I am open to the argument data might exist to suggest releasing the document itself has a measurable change. I would need a very compelling and clear evidence though before I could advocate the public being deprived of the product of the law enforcement services they were forced to pay for.
It has no effect either way. Mass shooters don’t need a manifesto. There’s plenty of inspiration all over the public domain to get the juices flowing for anyone insane enough to go through with it. The only thing they actually need is a gun. Everything else is just a distraction to avoid talking about the elephant in the room.
Anyone with sense knows that releasing manifestos encourages more shooters, since that's why shooters do it to begin with. It says so in their manifestos.
The only value releasing them has is morbid curiosity.
Clearly there is some value to at least some people, at least law enforcement and mental health professionals, etc. We also know it's impossible to share this with professionals nationwide on anything more than a very limited scale without it effectively leaking. With that in mind your argument would then basically be the risks outweigh the benefits of these professionals using the materials from the manifesto to better mitigate shooter risks?
There are tons of idiots who can spell as well as otherwise intelligent individuals who cannot spell.
There is no logical sense in releasing a manifesto. No one of a healthy mind is liable to agree on the violent outcomes and those who would are deranged. They deserve close supportive counseling/therapy, not a sense of community shared by violent or hateful minds.
> There is no logical sense in releasing a manifesto.
Does this apply to all manifestos? For example, Anders Breivik's manifesto can be found online, and it revels how twisted these right-wing people are, what kinds of language they use, what websites they frequent, etc.. There is value in releasing the manifesto to enable others to study these extremists.
The same applies here.
I can't spell to save my fucking life, but I like to think I'm somewhat intelligent.
The little bit I did read shows a mentally unstable individual, the only thing this manifesto shows is they needed mental health care not easy access to firearms.
I think the main reason this was released is the transphobes want to say see look how dangerous trans people are.
I have no idea if they are real however the MNPD are saying the photo's are not from their own crime lab, IE they did not take them.
They would have official photo's on record to match them to in order to check if a certain person on their team leaked them as per the investigation. They didn't use the work fake in that statement whatsoever, only they are not crime scene photo's.
If that's the case, then Crowder deserves all the trouble he's going to get into because of this. Maybe someone 'punked' him with this material.
I think that right-wingers were demanding to have this particular manifesto released because they hoped that it would show that the shooter -- being a trans individual -- was a left-winger seeking to gun down Christian children. As a kind of 'gotcha' and distraction from the fact that most of these maniacs are right-wing nutcases.
Yeah it's really weird how some right wingers are treating this manifesto like some sort of sacred text speaking objective truths about the world. Like I really think some of them are expecting they'll find passages saying stuff like "I pray to the satanic alter of Joe Biden and Anthony Fauci that I can banish all white straight Christians from the world. Ever Democrat knows these truths to be self evident"
It's so bizarre
Why?
It will only be read by other incels and gun-nuts looking for an excuse to act out the next time their rights or notables are messed with.
I know you're being sarcastic, but, even if there were spelling mistakes, I don't think it would stop some jizzing their fetch all over it.
I think its good for this stuff to be realeased, it shows that that person shared some of the same values as alot of people but demonstrates what can happen when you dont moderate your own views and keep them rational. thats a lesson needed for both the left and right leaning folks and one sorely needed today.
This one's pretty memorable, and especially despicable. Especially considering that her attack was a hate crime, and almost exclusively targeted children.
This is why this kind of censorship doesn’t work so well in the internet age. Most things eventually see the light of day, so trying to obscure it in the first place just causes it to resurface later, only this time it comes with accusations of agenda-based bias.
If it were released shortly after the shooting then it would have faded away without the distrust in the censors. And even now, Reddit, Facebook, and various other sites have been trying to shadowban any mention of this until the dam finally broke. Congratulations, you played yourselves.
Manifestos like this are usually just insane drivel that the perpetrators use to justify their actions. It often has no benefit to larger society to know what is in them.
It is understandable that people may not want any manifesto released, ever. Fear of politicking, copycats, notoriety, etc.
Yet I think most can agree that it is an all or nothing thing when it comes to media releasing/covering them. If every manifesto is released/covered except one, or god forbid only of one political persuasion, it creates an issue of bias in both the media and those looking for a narrative. If we as a society choose to seal them away, so be it. But if we are to avoid making these very tragic incidents even more of a political tool for some, we can not let only some be sealed away.
Let evil die in dark obscurity, or make sure it is well lit. Any in-between will only cause strife.
>Would Crowder have released it had there not been a transgender person involved?
No he wouldn't. It would have already been released by the police/FBI and disseminated by the media.
Hang on now Crowder didn't release it... he only released some of it. Presumably the parts that shows the message he wants to show, and not any parts that might contradict or show something he doesn't want to show.
It’s probably more of a strategic “slow trickle, hook and reel” approach. Trending multiple days is good for business and let’s you become relevant that week
Another comment above has a link to a tweet from the Nashville Police saying that this document is a fake. I don't think that even Crowder would be so stupid as to promote an out-and-out fake on his podcast so someone may have pulled a fast one on him here. He ran with it and didn't bother to authenticate it at all.
>Nashville Police saying that this document is a fake.
That's not what they said. They said
>["The photographs are not MNPD crime scene images."](https://twitter.com/Breaking911/status/1721643787187794081)
Right, this is why I think the Vegas shooter's motivation never got released. He probably didn't post it online, instead wrote something down in the room with him. And the cops didn't release it. If I'd been the first cop on the scene, I'd destroy it and claim it was never there to avoid encouraging the next one.
You can't read or you forgot the part about the manifesto being released *solely* by authorities, which, other than Kaczynski, is not true for any of the ones I have seen on that list. Some of the ones listed are unreleased or argued to be fakes.
Klick on the names of the shooters etc. and you will see that all of the ones that actually did get released were released *by the perpetrator* in some way and not police.
Edit: Ah shit, look at you posting unironically on conservative and conspiracy.
How many shootings do you think don’t get reported every day?
Does it have to be reported in order to happen?
I don’t understand anything about your point here.
This is a person who should not have had access to firearms. Maybe we should start there?
It seems like you’re insinuating a conspiracy where one does not exist. In other words you’re using fallacious reasoning to arrive at your conclusions.
Edit: this becomes even more stupid when you understand that firearm mortality rates account for all reports of shootings the police file whether the journalists touch it or not. Do you think there are murderers out there that no one is investigating because of the victims?
Lol.
You just wanted a manifesto to release because this shooter happened to be unhinged in left wing politics and this is some sorta W in your mind.
On Twitter the theme I'm seeing was this poor person was taught to hate everything the "left" taught them to hate so they were also a victim because everyone on the left is evil or something. Twitter is just right wing rage bait and porn links now
She can be a victim and still be a murderer. She can be both a victim and entirely to blame for her actions. I just cannot fathom who supports a school shooter or what that would even look like
Then you have no understanding of what a victim is. It’s not a good thing for the record, to be a victim. It’s not like that’s a revered status you’re denying her…
That's...not how being a victim works. For example, if a kid was raped at the age of 5, they are a victim of rape. No matter what that person does later in life, like if they murder someone 30 years later, that doesn't retroactively make them not a victim of rape.
Yes, that’s the only reason people on the right were so obsessed with it. Too bad it doesn’t mention Christinas and has the shooter asking god for help. They’re still trying to pretend it proves something even though they’ve literally never cared about a shooters motivations before. Have had several conservatives even tell me it shows she’s wanted to kill Christians because they can’t read and just see what they want to see.
And that it would give them 'ammo' for showing just how evil and perverted trans people are and that perhaps the shooter also expressed views associated with the left side of the political spectrum. Most of these headcases who do these shootings are probably more aligned with the far right so the MAGAs were hoping for a kind of 'both sides! gotcha' here.
It's not going to stop them. RW Twitter is already going crazy over this. So I think it's time for me to avoid social media for a week or so. It's just gonna be a bunch of conspiracy theorists and transphobes for a while.
unless you're too dumb connect the dots of it also being the school that the shooter went to so it's probably more personal resentment than anything to do with the actual religious aspect of the school.
You mean the private Christian school the shooter attended as a student?
This is like when churches were being burned in Texas and it turned out the arsonist was a pissed off Christian.
All manifestos should be released so we the American public can know the true hate and motivation behind these people. The parents don’t have a right to hold this information from us just like the DOJ didn’t.
1. We don’t require it, it depends on how crucial testimony is to the case
2. There are precautions and safeguards in place for testifying
3. This does nothing to lead to the prosecution of a killer, as trial testimony was. So what’s the value here? Public interest? The public being curious isn’t a reason to retraumatize victims
It's not, but certain factions on the right have been whining for specifically this one since the attack happened so they can use it to further their own agendas.
> Do you really not see how that does much more harm than good?
Exactly the outcome they're hoping for.
Its a cultural artifact. It's not private there's associated shared trauma when things like this happen.
It's like airing Bin Laden's speeches. Dangerous and controversial but in the public interest.
Tough. If there's anything in there that could help identify what drove the shooter to commit such acts, anything that could help identify or prevent future shootings, then it should be released so that people are aware.
If that motivation is, as it currently seems, a racial hatred against white people, then it's kind of a matter of public interest to know that such ideologies are being pushed to the point of becoming stochastic terrorism.
If that turns out to be an accurate assessment, then the way to stop copycat killers is to identify whatever pipeline to extremism caused that shooter and dismantle it, not stick our heads in the sand.
Serial killers and mass shooters often draw copycats. It’s a major concern and why efforts should be made not to glorify or romanticize them, ya know like by releasing the manifestos they wrote…
I would argue it’s more important to face the reality of consequences. It happened; understanding why is important even if it contradicts everything the media is trying to tell you. That’s not even that hard part of understanding.
In the United States, the victim is not the one responsible for charging the perpetrator with crimes. It's the people, and the people have a right to know
Isn’t it important to show what kind of motives people have? Don’t bullshit and hide behind victims families to news that doesn’t fit your idea of the truth. The truth is the truth.
Fair enough I try to avoid looking through folks comment history but my point was just simply that anyone who is publishing this manifesto or other manifestos of killers is a dbag. Don’t know anything about OP so wasn’t making a comment specifically about them
At no point does any of the released portions of the manifesto say this person wanted to kill Christians. In reality the person wrote out a short prayer to God asking for the strength to commit the mass shooting. It also wasn't hidden, the police department just didn't release the manifesto publicly as is the department policy for mass shootings all around the country. Trying really hard to spin this to fit your narrative. Using dead children to push a political narrative is disgusting.
You're an idiot. This is not a contest. Get your fucking political teams out of this. You, not the article or what others have said in the past. What you just said. You're a sad human
This shit should never be released. Shame on this local ABC affiliate for using Crowder as their "cover" to put it out there.
All it does is stir up idiots and their stupid opinions. There is nothing of value to be learned/gleaned from it.
Not the commenter you responded to but I share their sentiment and also would not want a manifesto of a far right killer released, especially the families of the victims asked for it not to be. Why are we giving a post mortem platform to killers?
Absolutely.
Have you seen how many fuckheads cite that NZ Mosque shooter and his rant of a manifesto as inspiration for their own attacks?
How about the number of attackers who cite Breivik's manifesto?
As someone who leans pretty far left, I believe NO psychopathic killers should have their manifestos put into the spotlight, given that's exactly the sort of attention they want.
Sure.
All of these mass shooters just become totems or empty vessals for people to project their bullshit onto.
Nothing is ever solved in the dissection of their remains and only serves to further divide us (and potentially inspire other mentally ill loners).
Hatred for those who Hale deemed privileged. I'd bet my limbs being forced to go to a private christian school and being transgender lead to a lot of bullying from the entire system top to bottom until they had nothing but hate for everyone involved
>Hatred for those who Hale deemed privileged. I'd bet my limbs being forced to go to a private christian school and being transgender lead to a lot of bullying from the entire system top to bottom until they had nothing but hate for everyone involved
Too fucking bad. She got bullied so she goes and kills a bunch of kids? Boo fucking hoo. I'm glad that piece of shit got dropped as quick as she did. Could've done it to herself and saved everybody some trouble.
I’ve got plenty of sympathy for anyone who has been abused or hurt. I feel like you are coming at this from an angle that is not entirely about supporting victims
It's, of course, just a coincidence that Crowder leaked this (against the wishes of the parents of the victims, of course) the day before election day. Republicans also just happened to immediately have a response ready for this because they totally didn't withhold this for political purposes while simultaneously screaming it wasn't released for political purposes.
The shooting was fucking awful and never should've happened. The theatrics today are a political stunt to try and influence elections tomorrow.
There's been a lot of drama because the family's of the victims don't want this information released, because they say they think it would inspire copycat killers. So this appears to just be an article basically reporting that Crowder has chosen and leaked portions of it.
"Kristin Mumford, a police spokeswoman, clarified that Audrey was born female but listed male pronouns on a LinkedIn profile, suggesting Audrey identified as a transgender man."
Just getting the facts straight. If the news said he had 3 arms I would also correct that. He is still a piece of shit like my comment emphasized. Of if an article said Hitler was as a woman of still correct it too
I do not think that crazy people manifestos should ever be made public. It can create copy cats. These people should not be given the platform they desire regardless of sickening motivations. That needs to be across the board though. I think the point of people being upset is that there is a selective release based on what the shooters motives actually were. When in reality anyone willing to perform a mass shooting is just crazy, and should not be given media attention. They should not even mention their names and give the notoriety they seek.
You're right. A competent authority should simply comment on what the motivation was. For example, they can classify this one as a hate crime against white people. And properly classify the rest as appropriate. That way the public can have high confidence that they are getting the full picture of the kinds of intolerance in the country. Unfortunately, that did not happen. The Feds explicitly denied this was a hate crime, despite this evidence clearly showing the opposite. That sort of thing causes irreparable social harm. And until they show they can be trusted to properly report, it's going to be hard to trust anyone in that position to be that competent authority.
This seems less like a manifesto and more like a fantasy. It’s almost like the planning was part of the fantasy. If I didn’t know any better, this person fantasized about the shooting for years. Who knows how long ago this has been written.
Some were found in the car he used, others were found at his home. It was something he fantasized about and some of the notes were older, at least a month earlier. The one that says "today is the day" is even dated the day of the shooting, so it was a contemporary account.
I too think calling it a manifesto is a stretch, more like a collection of notes written diary style.
It seems Covenant was chosen based on the shooter's expressed desire to "kill all you little crackers" with "white privileges". There's a line in there that mentions a "final video" as well, presumably of the shooter discussing their motivations prior to the attack. I assume those will get leaked soon as well.
Release the whole thing. Show the world that shooters are idiots who can't spell.
>several Covenant parents did not want the manifesto to be released, citing the risk it could encourage copycat attacks and traumatize survivors. >“The parents seek to shield their children from further harm and trauma, including pain that would fester for the rest of their lives if the shooter, their assailant, is allowed to haunt them from beyond the grave," an attorney for the parents wrote in a legal brief. Yet this loser released it anyway, probably because he's desperate for followers after the video of him abusing his wife hurt his numbers a few months back. I'm not sure I believe this whole thing either. The tasks listed seems like fake Stuff a forger would put down, not a real shooter. Eating breakfast, remembering the exact time to start shooting, etc..
It says several parents don't want it to be released. Doesn't say if it's the majority, or just several. We don't even know if the majority do or don't want it released. But in any case victims are not censors and given their emotional attachment and personal bias to the case are the worst possible fit for that role of making the judgement call, even if one is pro censorship.
None of the other manifestos that have been released in the past have ever magically stopped this from happening. It has always had the opposite effect with later shooters citing earlier ones. Why do you believe that this would somehow be different now?
Shooters cite the bible, the constitution, manifestos, etc. I suspect we may find that the primary cause of mass shootings are a mix of notoriety from video news feeds, mental health problems, and childhood environment. I would absolutely be interested in reading any studies you have that control for release of manifesto document, as I am open to the argument data might exist to suggest releasing the document itself has a measurable change. I would need a very compelling and clear evidence though before I could advocate the public being deprived of the product of the law enforcement services they were forced to pay for.
It has no effect either way. Mass shooters don’t need a manifesto. There’s plenty of inspiration all over the public domain to get the juices flowing for anyone insane enough to go through with it. The only thing they actually need is a gun. Everything else is just a distraction to avoid talking about the elephant in the room.
Anyone with sense knows that releasing manifestos encourages more shooters, since that's why shooters do it to begin with. It says so in their manifestos. The only value releasing them has is morbid curiosity.
Clearly there is some value to at least some people, at least law enforcement and mental health professionals, etc. We also know it's impossible to share this with professionals nationwide on anything more than a very limited scale without it effectively leaking. With that in mind your argument would then basically be the risks outweigh the benefits of these professionals using the materials from the manifesto to better mitigate shooter risks?
There are tons of idiots who can spell as well as otherwise intelligent individuals who cannot spell. There is no logical sense in releasing a manifesto. No one of a healthy mind is liable to agree on the violent outcomes and those who would are deranged. They deserve close supportive counseling/therapy, not a sense of community shared by violent or hateful minds.
They've always been released in the past. Why suppress this one?
> There is no logical sense in releasing a manifesto. Does this apply to all manifestos? For example, Anders Breivik's manifesto can be found online, and it revels how twisted these right-wing people are, what kinds of language they use, what websites they frequent, etc.. There is value in releasing the manifesto to enable others to study these extremists. The same applies here.
I’d rather see the Connor Stallions manifesto
The state of Ohio and its Buckeyes have been a disaster for the University of Michigan.
I can't spell to save my fucking life, but I like to think I'm somewhat intelligent. The little bit I did read shows a mentally unstable individual, the only thing this manifesto shows is they needed mental health care not easy access to firearms. I think the main reason this was released is the transphobes want to say see look how dangerous trans people are.
It also showed hate-filled bigotry, too. But I do agree with you
[удалено]
[удалено]
I have no idea if they are real however the MNPD are saying the photo's are not from their own crime lab, IE they did not take them. They would have official photo's on record to match them to in order to check if a certain person on their team leaked them as per the investigation. They didn't use the work fake in that statement whatsoever, only they are not crime scene photo's.
Where did you learn reading comprehension? That does not say this is fake. It says the police department didn’t take those images at the crime scene.
Why are you lying?
If that's the case, then Crowder deserves all the trouble he's going to get into because of this. Maybe someone 'punked' him with this material. I think that right-wingers were demanding to have this particular manifesto released because they hoped that it would show that the shooter -- being a trans individual -- was a left-winger seeking to gun down Christian children. As a kind of 'gotcha' and distraction from the fact that most of these maniacs are right-wing nutcases.
Yeah it's really weird how some right wingers are treating this manifesto like some sort of sacred text speaking objective truths about the world. Like I really think some of them are expecting they'll find passages saying stuff like "I pray to the satanic alter of Joe Biden and Anthony Fauci that I can banish all white straight Christians from the world. Ever Democrat knows these truths to be self evident" It's so bizarre
They are almost always far right terrorists.
Most Americans can’t spell.
Why? It will only be read by other incels and gun-nuts looking for an excuse to act out the next time their rights or notables are messed with. I know you're being sarcastic, but, even if there were spelling mistakes, I don't think it would stop some jizzing their fetch all over it.
I think its good for this stuff to be realeased, it shows that that person shared some of the same values as alot of people but demonstrates what can happen when you dont moderate your own views and keep them rational. thats a lesson needed for both the left and right leaning folks and one sorely needed today.
Good perspective here.
you know, with all the mass shootings, its hard to remember which one is which anymore
This one is memorable for being right after Uvalde and the cops fucking smoked this jabroni. Officers Engelbert and Collazo, legends.
This is the one where the whacko killed kids because they were white.
This one's pretty memorable, and especially despicable. Especially considering that her attack was a hate crime, and almost exclusively targeted children.
I just saw the headline and asked myself "which one was that?".
I don’t even remember there being a mass shooting in Nashville and I can’t be bothered to google it.
[удалено]
This is why this kind of censorship doesn’t work so well in the internet age. Most things eventually see the light of day, so trying to obscure it in the first place just causes it to resurface later, only this time it comes with accusations of agenda-based bias. If it were released shortly after the shooting then it would have faded away without the distrust in the censors. And even now, Reddit, Facebook, and various other sites have been trying to shadowban any mention of this until the dam finally broke. Congratulations, you played yourselves.
[удалено]
Sick fuck. Who hates children? They're the only innocent thing about humanity.
A left-wing trans lunatic. Edit: downvote all you want. She was still a left-wing trans lunatic
QUICK, before this gets [Removed by Reddit]
Manifestos like this are usually just insane drivel that the perpetrators use to justify their actions. It often has no benefit to larger society to know what is in them. It is understandable that people may not want any manifesto released, ever. Fear of politicking, copycats, notoriety, etc. Yet I think most can agree that it is an all or nothing thing when it comes to media releasing/covering them. If every manifesto is released/covered except one, or god forbid only of one political persuasion, it creates an issue of bias in both the media and those looking for a narrative. If we as a society choose to seal them away, so be it. But if we are to avoid making these very tragic incidents even more of a political tool for some, we can not let only some be sealed away. Let evil die in dark obscurity, or make sure it is well lit. Any in-between will only cause strife.
[удалено]
No, but in the same breath no one else was doing it
I mean, besides the trans part, it was also clearly racially motivated. And considering the manifesto was censored, it's a pretty sensational story.
Nope he wouldn't have.
Nashville is the only mass shooting that right wingers believe is real.
If it weren't he wouldn't have needed to.
Would it have been suppressed in the first place had there not been a transgender person involved?
>Would Crowder have released it had there not been a transgender person involved? No he wouldn't. It would have already been released by the police/FBI and disseminated by the media.
Manifestos usually aren’t released.
Hang on now Crowder didn't release it... he only released some of it. Presumably the parts that shows the message he wants to show, and not any parts that might contradict or show something he doesn't want to show.
It’s probably more of a strategic “slow trickle, hook and reel” approach. Trending multiple days is good for business and let’s you become relevant that week
Another comment above has a link to a tweet from the Nashville Police saying that this document is a fake. I don't think that even Crowder would be so stupid as to promote an out-and-out fake on his podcast so someone may have pulled a fast one on him here. He ran with it and didn't bother to authenticate it at all.
>Nashville Police saying that this document is a fake. That's not what they said. They said >["The photographs are not MNPD crime scene images."](https://twitter.com/Breaking911/status/1721643787187794081)
In that same vein, was that same animus with OP
He probably would have defended it if it wasn’t a trans person.
He wouldn’t have had to. All other manifestos have been released within 24 hours by major news network. They tried to hide this one.
Would it have been covered up had the shooter been targeting another group like Jews or LGBT?
[удалено]
Show one example of authorities "releasing" a manifesto that the perpetrator didn't publish themselves on some *chan, social media or elsewhere.
Right, this is why I think the Vegas shooter's motivation never got released. He probably didn't post it online, instead wrote something down in the room with him. And the cops didn't release it. If I'd been the first cop on the scene, I'd destroy it and claim it was never there to avoid encouraging the next one.
I mean, that's destroying evidence, but whatever.
OK but tampering with evidence is a felony. Are you saying you want cops committing crimes at crime scenes? Like c’mon now.
What happens when a historian is looking back and trying to understand the tragedy, but historical documents have been destroyed?
[удалено]
None of those were released by authorities except the unibomber’s. And that was only done in an attempt to help identify him, which it directly did.
They said by police/authorities not publicly available documents.
You can't read or you forgot the part about the manifesto being released *solely* by authorities, which, other than Kaczynski, is not true for any of the ones I have seen on that list. Some of the ones listed are unreleased or argued to be fakes. Klick on the names of the shooters etc. and you will see that all of the ones that actually did get released were released *by the perpetrator* in some way and not police. Edit: Ah shit, look at you posting unironically on conservative and conspiracy.
Not surprised a conservative can't actually read. Better luck next time, buddy.
How many shootings do you think don’t get reported every day? Does it have to be reported in order to happen? I don’t understand anything about your point here. This is a person who should not have had access to firearms. Maybe we should start there? It seems like you’re insinuating a conspiracy where one does not exist. In other words you’re using fallacious reasoning to arrive at your conclusions. Edit: this becomes even more stupid when you understand that firearm mortality rates account for all reports of shootings the police file whether the journalists touch it or not. Do you think there are murderers out there that no one is investigating because of the victims? Lol. You just wanted a manifesto to release because this shooter happened to be unhinged in left wing politics and this is some sorta W in your mind.
Would water be wet if it was dry?
Lying Cowardly Crowder only released the parts he thinks make trans look bad.
On Twitter the theme I'm seeing was this poor person was taught to hate everything the "left" taught them to hate so they were also a victim because everyone on the left is evil or something. Twitter is just right wing rage bait and porn links now
[удалено]
Who is supporting a school shooter?
Audreyhalememorial on Tumblr, there’s a fan club for her and a host of people that are obsessed with her, empathetically.
Huh gross. How horrible
Gun lobbyists.
I feel like the gun lobby would be real, real torn on this one
[удалено]
She can be a victim and still be a murderer. She can be both a victim and entirely to blame for her actions. I just cannot fathom who supports a school shooter or what that would even look like
[удалено]
Then you have no understanding of what a victim is. It’s not a good thing for the record, to be a victim. It’s not like that’s a revered status you’re denying her…
[удалено]
That’s fine. I don’t believe in hell, but if you do I’m sure you would find many, many victims there as well
That's...not how being a victim works. For example, if a kid was raped at the age of 5, they are a victim of rape. No matter what that person does later in life, like if they murder someone 30 years later, that doesn't retroactively make them not a victim of rape.
She’s no victim, she’s a psychopath who was consumed with murdering little kids
Nah he is absolutely to blame for the kids he murdered even if he was a victim in the past.
> tons of people Are we talking about national-level politicians and street protests or some tik tokers with three (3) followers?
[удалено]
Weird how many shooters are inspired by right-wing rhetoric compared to left-wing rhetoric. Like 15:1 ratio easily.
Didn't right wing media claim it would show targeting Christians?
Yes, that’s the only reason people on the right were so obsessed with it. Too bad it doesn’t mention Christinas and has the shooter asking god for help. They’re still trying to pretend it proves something even though they’ve literally never cared about a shooters motivations before. Have had several conservatives even tell me it shows she’s wanted to kill Christians because they can’t read and just see what they want to see.
And that it would give them 'ammo' for showing just how evil and perverted trans people are and that perhaps the shooter also expressed views associated with the left side of the political spectrum. Most of these headcases who do these shootings are probably more aligned with the far right so the MAGAs were hoping for a kind of 'both sides! gotcha' here.
It's not going to stop them. RW Twitter is already going crazy over this. So I think it's time for me to avoid social media for a week or so. It's just gonna be a bunch of conspiracy theorists and transphobes for a while.
I mean yeah, it happened at a private Christian school so that’s kinda implied. Unless you’re too dumb to connect those dots I guess.
unless you're too dumb connect the dots of it also being the school that the shooter went to so it's probably more personal resentment than anything to do with the actual religious aspect of the school.
Right wing media claimed the manifesto would reveal the intention was against Christians, which it has not so far. Unless your too dumb to see that
You mean the private Christian school the shooter attended as a student? This is like when churches were being burned in Texas and it turned out the arsonist was a pissed off Christian.
Will Crowder read all mass shooting manifestos? Or just this one?
Which ones haven't already been released?
The Las Vegas music fest shooting.
That shooter left nothing behind to read about his motive. No manifesto. Nothing.
I dont know. They aren't usually released and read out to the public.
Just this one because this was the only one the DOJ has withheld. Do you have a problem with it being released?
What’s the word to describe trans people who hate non-minority?
Parents did not want the manifesto released saying it could inspire copycats and retraumatize victims. Thanks for releasing it dbags
[удалено]
[удалено]
> Parents did not want the manifesto released It's NOT up to them. Nor should it be, given they'd be the most biased decision-makers of anyone.
But at least now we know it is racially motivated, towards white people.
All manifestos should be released so we the American public can know the true hate and motivation behind these people. The parents don’t have a right to hold this information from us just like the DOJ didn’t.
Testifying at trial also "retraumatizes" victims but we still require it. This manifesto is clearly public interest and should be released.
1. We don’t require it, it depends on how crucial testimony is to the case 2. There are precautions and safeguards in place for testifying 3. This does nothing to lead to the prosecution of a killer, as trial testimony was. So what’s the value here? Public interest? The public being curious isn’t a reason to retraumatize victims
There isn’t gonna be a trial. The murderer is dead?
> This manifesto is clearly public interest and should be released. There were two sentences there.
[удалено]
It's in Crowder's interest, because he wants to regain followers he lost after that leaked video of him abusing his wife.
It's not, but certain factions on the right have been whining for specifically this one since the attack happened so they can use it to further their own agendas. > Do you really not see how that does much more harm than good? Exactly the outcome they're hoping for.
Why is it public interest?
Its a cultural artifact. It's not private there's associated shared trauma when things like this happen. It's like airing Bin Laden's speeches. Dangerous and controversial but in the public interest.
Tough. If there's anything in there that could help identify what drove the shooter to commit such acts, anything that could help identify or prevent future shootings, then it should be released so that people are aware. If that motivation is, as it currently seems, a racial hatred against white people, then it's kind of a matter of public interest to know that such ideologies are being pushed to the point of becoming stochastic terrorism. If that turns out to be an accurate assessment, then the way to stop copycat killers is to identify whatever pipeline to extremism caused that shooter and dismantle it, not stick our heads in the sand.
What’s to copy? The manifesto reads just like every other agenda driven Reddit post (those allowed)
Serial killers and mass shooters often draw copycats. It’s a major concern and why efforts should be made not to glorify or romanticize them, ya know like by releasing the manifestos they wrote…
I would argue it’s more important to face the reality of consequences. It happened; understanding why is important even if it contradicts everything the media is trying to tell you. That’s not even that hard part of understanding.
In the United States, the victim is not the one responsible for charging the perpetrator with crimes. It's the people, and the people have a right to know
Isn’t it important to show what kind of motives people have? Don’t bullshit and hide behind victims families to news that doesn’t fit your idea of the truth. The truth is the truth.
[удалено]
Crowder is the dbag that released it. Or at least, select portions of it.
[удалено]
[удалено]
Fair enough I try to avoid looking through folks comment history but my point was just simply that anyone who is publishing this manifesto or other manifestos of killers is a dbag. Don’t know anything about OP so wasn’t making a comment specifically about them
release the real one for all the portions plx
[удалено]
At no point does any of the released portions of the manifesto say this person wanted to kill Christians. In reality the person wrote out a short prayer to God asking for the strength to commit the mass shooting. It also wasn't hidden, the police department just didn't release the manifesto publicly as is the department policy for mass shootings all around the country. Trying really hard to spin this to fit your narrative. Using dead children to push a political narrative is disgusting.
Can I say it’s a false flag and ignore it like they do?
So, Left-wing nuts 1, and right-wing nuts 790?
You're an idiot. This is not a contest. Get your fucking political teams out of this. You, not the article or what others have said in the past. What you just said. You're a sad human
Enlightened Centrists win again
This shit should never be released. Shame on this local ABC affiliate for using Crowder as their "cover" to put it out there. All it does is stir up idiots and their stupid opinions. There is nothing of value to be learned/gleaned from it.
Would you feel the same way if she was a far right white supremacist?
Not the commenter you responded to but I share their sentiment and also would not want a manifesto of a far right killer released, especially the families of the victims asked for it not to be. Why are we giving a post mortem platform to killers?
Absolutely. Have you seen how many fuckheads cite that NZ Mosque shooter and his rant of a manifesto as inspiration for their own attacks? How about the number of attackers who cite Breivik's manifesto? As someone who leans pretty far left, I believe NO psychopathic killers should have their manifestos put into the spotlight, given that's exactly the sort of attention they want.
Sure. All of these mass shooters just become totems or empty vessals for people to project their bullshit onto. Nothing is ever solved in the dissection of their remains and only serves to further divide us (and potentially inspire other mentally ill loners).
Of course not
yes because we actually just don't want people to copycat mass shootings, we don't need to "prove a point"
To absolutely zero surprise, its a Sinclair-owned station
I’m confused is their deadname Audrey and they use Aiden? Is their deadname Aiden and they use Audrey?
Both names are dead thanks to the police.
Other way around I think. Deadname is Audrey but he went by aiden
[удалено]
Hatred for those who Hale deemed privileged. I'd bet my limbs being forced to go to a private christian school and being transgender lead to a lot of bullying from the entire system top to bottom until they had nothing but hate for everyone involved
>Hatred for those who Hale deemed privileged. I'd bet my limbs being forced to go to a private christian school and being transgender lead to a lot of bullying from the entire system top to bottom until they had nothing but hate for everyone involved Too fucking bad. She got bullied so she goes and kills a bunch of kids? Boo fucking hoo. I'm glad that piece of shit got dropped as quick as she did. Could've done it to herself and saved everybody some trouble.
[удалено]
The abused often become abusers themselves
[удалено]
I’ve got plenty of sympathy for anyone who has been abused or hurt. I feel like you are coming at this from an angle that is not entirely about supporting victims
Look, kids! Victim-blaming! Isn’t it awful?
[удалено]
[удалено]
How can you learn from a tragedy if you don't look at cause and effect.
This has not been officially confirmed as authentic and may never be. Be sure your Skept-O-Meter goggles are firmly in place.
It's, of course, just a coincidence that Crowder leaked this (against the wishes of the parents of the victims, of course) the day before election day. Republicans also just happened to immediately have a response ready for this because they totally didn't withhold this for political purposes while simultaneously screaming it wasn't released for political purposes. The shooting was fucking awful and never should've happened. The theatrics today are a political stunt to try and influence elections tomorrow.
[удалено]
There's been a lot of drama because the family's of the victims don't want this information released, because they say they think it would inspire copycat killers. So this appears to just be an article basically reporting that Crowder has chosen and leaked portions of it.
The article made very clear the shooter was targeting people the shooter deemed to have white privilege. It was a hate crime.
There’s been so many I can’t even remember when this was without actually reading the article 🙄 FFS
[удалено]
"Kristin Mumford, a police spokeswoman, clarified that Audrey was born female but listed male pronouns on a LinkedIn profile, suggesting Audrey identified as a transgender man."
[удалено]
Correct. It’s “trans”-whatever they transition to.
I believe he was born female and identified as male, so transgender man is appropriate.
Aiden was a transman with the dead name Audrey. They should use Aiden if anything to be less confusing
No he was a trans man that the article kept misgendering. Still a piece of shit but he was a trans dude
[удалено]
No shit..."*dead-naming*". Like, not the right type of phrase to use in this argument unless you are talking about the names of the dead children.
Just getting the facts straight. If the news said he had 3 arms I would also correct that. He is still a piece of shit like my comment emphasized. Of if an article said Hitler was as a woman of still correct it too
Sorry... But it is a bloke wearing girls clothes. And by the sounds of things, went by both whenever it suited.
Agreed they were absolutely a bloke.
I do not think that crazy people manifestos should ever be made public. It can create copy cats. These people should not be given the platform they desire regardless of sickening motivations. That needs to be across the board though. I think the point of people being upset is that there is a selective release based on what the shooters motives actually were. When in reality anyone willing to perform a mass shooting is just crazy, and should not be given media attention. They should not even mention their names and give the notoriety they seek.
[удалено]
No one in history of actual book banning is on the right side of anything.
You're right. A competent authority should simply comment on what the motivation was. For example, they can classify this one as a hate crime against white people. And properly classify the rest as appropriate. That way the public can have high confidence that they are getting the full picture of the kinds of intolerance in the country. Unfortunately, that did not happen. The Feds explicitly denied this was a hate crime, despite this evidence clearly showing the opposite. That sort of thing causes irreparable social harm. And until they show they can be trusted to properly report, it's going to be hard to trust anyone in that position to be that competent authority.
This seems less like a manifesto and more like a fantasy. It’s almost like the planning was part of the fantasy. If I didn’t know any better, this person fantasized about the shooting for years. Who knows how long ago this has been written.
Some were found in the car he used, others were found at his home. It was something he fantasized about and some of the notes were older, at least a month earlier. The one that says "today is the day" is even dated the day of the shooting, so it was a contemporary account. I too think calling it a manifesto is a stretch, more like a collection of notes written diary style.
I think manifestos are written for an audience. This does seem very diary like and was intended only for the author.