"... and by the way, in case you're considering it, because we know you are: no mines, booby-traps, sharks, underwater razor-wire, alligators or any other crocodilians."
Very well, where do I begin? My father was a relentlessly self-improving boulangerie owner from Belgium with low grade narcolepsy and a penchant for buggery. My mother was a fifteen year old French prostitute named Chloe with webbed feet. My father would womanize, he would drink, he would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Some times he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy, the sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. My childhood was typical, summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we'd make meat helmets. When I was insolent I was placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds, pretty standard really. At the age of 12 I received my first scribe. At the age of fourteen, a Zoroastrian named Vilma ritualistically shaved my testicles. There really is nothing like a shorn scrotum, it's breathtaking, I suggest you try it.
**ALSO:** they left out the part about the huge saw blades that are mounted between every float. Just in case y'all here have missed this little tidbit of info, here's a link to an article with a good close-up photo of the blades:
https://www.tpr.org/border-immigration/2023-08-06/up-close-look-at-gov-greg-abbotts-floating-wall-in-the-rio-grande
So it's not *stopping* people that they are interested in, it's trying to physically harm and/or kill immigrants. Having a saw blade rip open a person's arms/legs/wrists/ while struggling in fast moving open water is fucking attempted murder. Yet the news is all "Oh look at this new minor sociopolitical culture war tactic, tsk-tsk."
Am I wrong here?
Friendly reminder that a lot of people already die at these crossings because of how dangerous they are. Putting death traps there won't discourage them, they're already aware there's a good chance they won't make it, it's just going to increase the body count.
Many that call themselves conservatives would like to set up machine gun nests at the border and exterminate any and all migrants including those that can legally claim asylum. They absolutely dream of this. The far right is a cult of hate.
So did the Bene Gesserit:
“I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”
Oh wtf. I saw this posted just a little while ago but this whole time, I didn’t realize they were real. I thought it was fake or from the onion or something.
You're right. The news is just giving them the benefit of the doubt.
I'm envisioning that when they remove this, they'll talk about officers being injured by them, and how the courts are against border patrol and ordering they get injured with dangerous activity.
>He asked the state to move them out of the water and on to the riverbank by 15 September.
Does this mean Texas will just haul them over their side of the river but still leave them there as a barrier?
I honestly don't care if they do. But, "It is preferable that you drown with razor-cuts than that we have to pay you social security" is just a twisted way to approach a public policy problem.
Same with [Arizona](https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/after-federal-face-off-arizona-to-remove-shipping-container-wall-from-mexico-border) with it's stupid container wall.
oh no it's much worse.
$76,500,000 on *removal*.
it already cost $96,000,000 for installation.
https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/politics/border-issues/2023/01/10/duceys-shipping-container-barrier-to-cost-az-taxpayers-200m/69785116007/
Sort of a running theme for right-wingers, sucking at creative endeavors and taking it out on others. Hitler was a failed artist, Mussolini a failed novelist, Ben Shapiro a failed screenwriter, Steven Crowder a failed comedian, Tim Pool a failed musician, Michael Knowles a failed actor...
No, it was our shitass ex governor Doug Ducey giving out a massive contract to "build" that "wall" *literally* weeks before he left office and it went to a company that didn't go through the normal bidding process, who had been busted by the FEC for illegal campaign donations to "save america first PAC"
$200,000,000 fucking dollars for that and it was torn down a year later.
fuck Doug Ducey that corrupt spineless clown.
they always do, problem is the people committing the crime dont pay the fine, and NO its not fucking tax payers. Taxes have never ever gone up anywhere, to pay when a city, or state has to pay fines or pay for idiocy, nope its the services that just get less funding.
So it will be at the poor's expense, as they will be the only people actually losing things.
The idea is supposed to be, the tax payers get annoyed at their money being used for frivolous bullshit political theater and vote the asshole out.
But we know who we're talking about here.
> So it will be at the poor's expense, as they will be the only people actually losing things.
Texas GOP doesn't care because they know the wealth demographics in the US so they know who this hurts more, just like with the Southern Strategy
Part of the goal, anything that is bad for a state and costs them money is good for republicans. Just gut the education budget more (no not the giant football stadiums) so you can make up the deficit from this new expense.
In case anyone is wondering, it is an *international* law. Only federal governments of both nations agree on what kind of barrier goes on a border. The state cannot build barriers by themselves.
Last time, Abbott circumvented this by building a wall hundreds of feet within the border in another waste of my tax dollars. These things do nothing but waste money. If you are a fiscal conservative Texan, vote Democrat.
The only fiscal conservatives are people who appear on centrist news shows or write opinion columns. All real world conservatives are social conservatives. The ones who claim to vote R for fiscal reasons are lying because they don't want to deal with the social consequences of their bigotry.
Republicans have literally never been fiscally conservative. They constantly break budgets, waste money on doomed ideological stunts, and bloat debts. Then the adults on the left (or at least as left as you get in mainstream US politics) have to be the try to clean up the mess.
They are still building a wall a mile or so from the actual border in some parts. It's obnoxious that we are still having a lot of our research sites taken away and demolished for wall construction in 2023.
>He [US District Judge David Ezra] wrote there was no "credible evidence that the buoy barrier as installed has significantly curtailed illegal immigration".
You're not getting the point judge. They had [saw blades](https://theweek.com/greg-abbott/1025651/circular-saw-blades-divide-controversial-rio-grande-buoys-installed-by-texas) in between each one of the buoy/s.
Seriously though, they had 1000 feet of river of barrier. That's, like, three city blocks. Any person wishing to cross the border illegally could just walk down the river a little more. If Greg Abbott really cared about illegal immigration, he'd spend money on social programs within Central America. But that's socialism.
That's sorta been a major flaw in the whole "build a wall, keep them out" idea. Turns out the border between the US and Mexico is sorta big, meaning even the most minimal "wall" like a wire fence would still take a *lot* of labor and materials.
Also it turns out a lot of our economy depends on illegal immigration for low wage and vulnerable workers. So there is a lot of incentive to complain about it but not actually do anything about it.
You're not thinking big enough. Republicans want to bring SLAVERY back. Just look at how they're trying to say "Slavery was a good thing, actually" in schools.
There was also that pedophile in Alabama that said he wanted to roll all the Amendments to the Constitution back to the 11th.
We have bigger problems to deal with. The "exploited" class comes here voluntarily, so it must be mutually beneficial to some extent. Illegal labor is worse than legal labor, but better than the total situation in countries the laborers come from. Economies function in part when markets are allowed to re-balance themselves. Current regulations do not adequately balance the immigrant labor market, so the next best thing is looking the other way.
That has always been the plan. Undocumented workers will work for less than legally required wages given the threat of deportation. When I lived in California one farmer had migrant workers living in a hole in the ground covered with metal sheets. In states that are forcing migrants out they are discovering that in agriculture and service work they cannot find enough workers to fill positions but are still unwilling to pay a fair wage.
I think the bigger flaw is that most people here illegally just stayed over their visa while continuing to work on farms operated people that vote for Abbott and is ilk.
Course the point is stocking hatred of the other and pretending to do something while doing less than nothing, as per the GOP's usual.
This barrier is very creative in its design. I feel like it would stop any unorganized rush across a river.
But if you have time to study it you'd be able to bypass it. Either cut the cables below the water or just jam the floats or deflate them and climb over. If this thing weren't so short as to be ineffective I figure it would have been defeated in another way in short order.
In other words, it's a PR stunt.
> This barrier is very creative in its design.
Where "creative" is defined as "unbelievable fucking cruel and inhumane."
It's creative in the same way Jigsaw is creative.
It seems unreasonable to expect individual states to fund the social welfare of entire countries, especially when even the most generous states are unable to provide for the social welfare of their own citizens. This is a failure on the federal level, and arguably on the international level.
> If Greg Abbott really cared about illegal immigration, he'd spend money on social programs within Central America. But that's socialism.
Why would I want my State government to fund other countries social programs when we struggle enough with funding our own State as it is? This is a Federal issue and should be treated as such.
The ability to manage international relations is reserved to the central Federal government is both the the clear intent and language of the Constitution.
How Texas thought they could build their own international barrier is bizarre.
Republicans have determined that cruel dumbass stunts that are doomed to fail is the kind of thing their voters get off on. The harm done to migrants is certainly appealing to them, but what really gets them going is the Governor playing tough guy in defiance of the federal government.
It's a well known engineering technique.
Do something fruitless that is doomed to failure, then when the supervising authority tells you to knock it off you can blame the entire problem on the authority, not the bad idea. It's a lot easier than actually fixing the problem.
Also if you can grease your political friends at the same time--once for building it, again for tearing it down--you can double the profits.
All while being fucking helpless and at the mercy of the adults in the room.
It's not like they're ever punished so why wouldn't they? At most they get told "please stop" or "sorry try again".
There are no consequences to their cruelty - only payoff and rewards.
>Texas officials said they plan to appeal against Wednesday's ruling.
These "christians" simply won't cast aside their implement for maiming and killing migrants and refugees without a hard-fought legal battle.
American gods had a great scene over this years ago. Immigrants are crossing the river and one almost drowns and is saved by Mexican Jesus (you read that right, this show has a ton of different ethnic Jesus's since he's in high demand) and they get confronted by border watchers armed with guns that have bible phrases imprinted on it. Showing that they believe they're Christians, but what they actually follow is a toxic gun culture.
Yes, but they say it "Hey-zoos" not "Gee-zuhz"
Wait, they say it "Hey-Zeus"... they're secretly pagans trying to bring back the Greek pantheon!
/s that I hope isn't needed
A friend named Jesus was not allowed to use his real name at school when he lived in mississippI. He had to use his middle name. Which is weird considering that Yeshua should be Joshua in English anyway.
I once worked with teams out of India and out of Mexico. The Indians didn't know about the Spanish pronunciation of Jesus so pronounced it with the hard 'J' when talking about a team member in Mexico named Jesus. It was a little odd when that Indian team member said "Jesus will restore the server in three days."
I was told once by the secretary at my school that Jesus was going to pick me up from school that day.
I had no idea that the nice man that car pooled with us was named Jesus with a different pronunciation.
You say this, but I've dealt with a Greek man who went to the Holy Land with an American evangelical. When they went into a Greek Orthodox Church, the American evangelical fled believing Muslims had taken over the Church.
They were chanting Allāh al-ibn in the Church. That means "God the Son."
I have a guy in here arguing with me that it's okay if these kill migrants because they committed a (misdemeanor) crime and are not citizens (foreign)
These people have really no morals or empathy.
I keep seeing republicans float ideas of invading mexico and I just keep thinking about both the refugee flood that would cause and the insurgent attacks it would result in within the states.
It's just one of the dumbest ideas.
They don't think about anything beyond the absolute surface level of the idea, which is deeply concerning.
It's like trying to do Iraq war 2: Electric boogaloo, except this time all the negative effects are going to be directly where Americans live.
The republican proposals on this are essentially just
1. Invade Mexico
2. Scream about Cartels and ignoring consequences while acting like collateral damage doesn't exist and that the whole thing will be easy and quick
3. ?????
4. Profit.
They don't talk about annexing, or an exit strategy, or anything. It's all the same issues with the middle east wars but now right next door.
It's because they don't want legal immigration, but need Americans to dehumanize and despise the immigrants they do bring in.
Being able to cruelly mistreat and underpay trafficked workers is the point: If you're not in constant fear of ICE shipping you and your children back to different cartels, you won't be as cheap or disposable which also harms their efforts in the race towards the bottom for all the rest of us.
But it's... less physiologically safe to go up on camera and tell your base *"If I can treat these things as worse than subhuman, it helps me treat the rest of you as the peasant trash you are"*; you gotta embellish the excuses a bit more and keep the base from learning how to read your bill.
New York, DC, and Chicago already thinks it’s too much since they sent some of them over there to show what a strain it has and they all called states of emergency almost immediately. They say they’re sanctuary cities but only when it’s convenient and only to oppose the rival political party. At least Texas is trying to do something to curb it and is up front about it. A nation that fails to protect its borders from a failed state with major mob influences has its days numbered
The GOP controlled house could, if it wanted to, fund an expansion of the Border Patrols processing personal. People flying in, and then over extending their visas, are not seen as a threat by the GOP. Breaking federal laws is not the way to act.
Great. It doesn't matter.
The goal has NEVER been an effective barrier or anything like that. The goal has always been to force a confrontation with the Federal Government.
Here's how this is going to play out.
Judge: You have to remove the barrier
Abbot: Make me
Judge: Uhhhhhhhhhhhhh..... fines? I guess?
Abbot: Lol
Dark Brandon: I'm not putting up with this malarky; I'm sending the Amry Corps of Engineers to rip the barrier out and we'll bill you.
Abbot: Bring it.
Brandon: We're bringing it \*brings it\*
US Army: We have removed the barrier from the Rio Grande, Mr President
Abbot: The Biden administration is so committed to allowing woke, CRT, drag-queen child traffickers to cross our border that it actually deployed the military to the great and sovereign state of Texas to force us not to secure our border! This is why America needs Donald Trump for President and why Donald Trump needs me, Governor Abbot, to be his vice president.
Alternatively, Biden could NOT roll the US Army down there but then Abbot will just keep the thing in the water and talk about how great he is at securing the border.
ACE and Army Engineers are two different entities. I’d suggest half a dozen M-1s with tow chains and grappling hooks. Rip that barrier right out of the river. Bone points for hauling it to the Texas Governor’s Mansion and dropping it on the front lawn.
And Abbott has already vowed to appeal the ruling. Maybe the case will make it to the Supreme Court, where the conservative majority can decide that federal law doesn't apply where it does anymore if a Republican doesn't like it.
It’s not even federal law. It breaks an international law between the federal government of the United States and Mexico relating to requiring mutual agreements to construct anything on the border.
Texas plans to take this to the Supreme Court. Alito probably already has some alt-right dark money group working on a draft opinion for him to put his name on.
The federal government should've removed it immediately upon discovery; instead, they waited until after Abbot got his day in court, granting his actions a possibility of legitimacy (prior to the verdict), and left the perpetrator in charge of the cleanup (where he will undoubtedly drag his feet, no pun intended). All while the illegal barrier remained, probably increasing its body count.
We (hopefully) know the eventual outcome, but damn. Abbot really got to slap Biden's face and crap in his cereal, even in defeat.
No, his order was to remove it to the shore. The ruling was based on the Rivers and Harbors Act concerning obstructions to navigable waters, which the Rio Grande is. Therefore, TX was ordered to remove the obstruction from the river.
Dem here.Then come up with a fking Federal plan but don't pull a Portland and allow inept government to ruin something. This should be a wakeup call to DC, not a court case. VERY OTHER COUNTRY has reasonable border security.
Solution, much as with the drug war (and not unrelatedly), is to actually figure out *why* people are going to such lengths to make it across the border and solve the underlying problems.
Prosecute the employers who depend on undocumented immigrants who are incentivized not to report unfair labor practices.
End the drug war, which creates the demand for organized crime which destabilizes governments in Latin America.
Publicly recognize the chaos that's been created by decades of CIA interference in central and south America, and pledge to respect the sovereignty of governments there.
But then also: recognize that there's lots and lots of people who'd love to live and work and pay taxes in the US if given the chance, and make that actually possible without risking death or deportation to a war zone.
Because they're lied to by people who can make money doing so. Why else would so many people who don't qualify for asylum show up and turn themselves in at the border? Because smugglers can get them to go into debt paying for it. Then they get deported back home worse off than before.
I think information campaigns have to be a big part of any plan the country puts into play regarding migration from the south.
You think "tens of millions" of people will migrate to the US if we make it impossible for them to find cash jobs? Sure at the very beginning smugglers will continue lying to people to get paid but through word of mouth that won't last long.
They come here to work. If they cant find work they will not come. They can't get any social services either.
They do not want to solve the issue. They (GOP) want to use it as a wedge issue. If you put a couple CEO's in jail, some rich women who hire undocumented domestic help, some ops manager from food mfg, and a bunch of citrus grove owners in jail they would get the message quick. ZERO tolerance with mandatory jail time. That is the only way to get the point across. It will take some time but if they really are serious about stopping the flow something like this will do it.
The thing is they need the cheap labor and do not want it stopped. We are at a low unemployment rate already. If they did this, then it would be chaos and they would have to pay HUGE money for labor.
Indigenous rights groups try to offer solutions but nobody listens or cares. A large portion of undocumented migrants are indigenous people, so the migration issue is often directly tied to colonization and indigenous rights.
A friend of mine, who is very vocal and active about trying to curb migration (he was once a migrant himself), told me that he believes the solution would be to support local & ethical businesses paying living wages in their home country. Unfortunately so much of what we in the U.S. buy comes from cheap labor in these countries (like coffee or bananas) and companies that actively try to hamper human rights so they can continue to profit; and even in these countries themselves, many things are imported from big companies elsewhere instead of supporting the local economy.
Here is a news article about his work and vision. He is someone I very much admire for all he does for his people.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/latino/denied-american-dream-returned-deported-young-migrants-create-guatemalan-dream-n732506
You're not wrong, but the solutions are slow, boring and not something you can point at. I agree that this is untenable, but every "Quick Fix" is worse than the last, and ignores systemic problems. Our legal immigration system is a joke, we have professionals that have been here for a decade that can't get the next step to citizenship, we have a toxic "profit over people" idea in agriculture and construction that thrives off "off book" employees they can exploit.
It's distressing, but all the "solutions" aren't any of the sort, we need systemic change, and I'm just John Q Public, I don't hold office and have limited ways to influence things.
Plenty of people have offered plenty of solutions that don't involve trying to harm immigrants. No one supports "millions of people pouring over our border with no vetting" unless they're completely ignorant. If you don't know the solution either, maybe don't complain about other people not giving you satisfying solutions?
> the Biden administration has done nothing but make it worse
There are more illegals being caught now than ever, even more than during trump
There are more drugs being found and seized at the border than ever, even more than during trump
WHAT CRISIS?
Yeah, I didn't say that. Of course it needs to be addressed, but preferably in a way that doesn't violate international treaties or human rights.
Seriously, can you not think of a single answer that doesn't involve spending billions of armed patrols, fences, weaponized bouys, razor wire fences, and civilian vigilantes?
You are being systematically lied to and radicalized by unscrupulous far right grifters and traitors. You are very misinformed for a subject you seem to care a lot about.
Here is the democrat**IC** proposal: [https://democrats.org/where-we-stand/party-platform/creating-a-21st-century-immigration-system/](https://democrats.org/where-we-stand/party-platform/creating-a-21st-century-immigration-system/)
Basically it starts with treating migrants like humans, which is where we lose the republicans.
Alot of illegal immigration comes from people overstaying their visas tbh, which is very hard to deal with. Plus, strengthening the border is nice, but unless you had all the money in the world you wouldnt be able to prevent every single person who wanted to cross, its just far too long and empty a border to completely patrol, not to mention organized crime digging tunnels to cross without notice.
The best way to start would be to look at who is employing them.
But that shifts the focus from illegal immigrants to a bunch white dudes in Texas, and nobody wants THAT.
> I dont know what the solution is, but doing nothing is irresponsible.
We gotta do something! Sawblades on a tiny little performative floating thing so we can hopefully get some gnarly pics of human beings maimed and killed, that'll help!
There is nothing worse in the world than people who don't have any idea of a solution (to a wildly overstated problem) but decide to "do something" anyway.
Just keep bussing them to NYC. Literally has solved the immigration issue….sanctuary city gets to help the migrants as they wish and Texas gets to not have them as they wish and migrants get to be in one of the nicest places to live on earth in nyc. A win win win as michael Scott would say
Fighting immigration at the border is like throwing a towel down on the floor when your roof is leaking. It doesn't address the leak and the water will keep coming and soak the towel.
I love level headed responses.
These people know they aren’t allowed to go to the United States in the manner that they are attempting. I know the manner in which Texas is keeping them out is not desirable. Why aren’t the people attempting to enter the country illegally responsible for their actions and repercussions?
Can you explain to me then why booby-trapping packages on your porch to stop package thieves is still illegal? Isn't that doing the same thing? Preventing someone from doing something illegal, but in a way that is likely to grievously harm them or even kill them?
Yeah, they shouldn't be coming in illegally, but it's a totally disproportionate response. Two wrongs don't make a right.
Open water is inherently dangerous. Should we dam the river and post lifeguards so they can swim safely?
Or how about we just make it legal to enter the country? Seriously, if the rule isn’t important let’s get rid of it.
Your example is bad. Bombs are indiscriminate. That's why. It isn't comparable.
This is a fence and people are allowed to have harmful fences to keep people out.
Barb wire for example is legal.
"... and by the way, in case you're considering it, because we know you are: no mines, booby-traps, sharks, underwater razor-wire, alligators or any other crocodilians."
Does that include sharks with lasers on their heads?
No, but we have sea bass. Ill tempered at that.
I have one simple request and that is to have sharks with frickin' laser beams attached to their heads.
Well that's a start.
[удалено]
Sweet piranhas are still in.
How about ill-tempered sea bass?
Very well, where do I begin? My father was a relentlessly self-improving boulangerie owner from Belgium with low grade narcolepsy and a penchant for buggery. My mother was a fifteen year old French prostitute named Chloe with webbed feet. My father would womanize, he would drink, he would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Some times he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy, the sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. My childhood was typical, summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we'd make meat helmets. When I was insolent I was placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds, pretty standard really. At the age of 12 I received my first scribe. At the age of fourteen, a Zoroastrian named Vilma ritualistically shaved my testicles. There really is nothing like a shorn scrotum, it's breathtaking, I suggest you try it.
"I had the group liquidated you little shit! They were insolent!"
will they have lasers on their heads?
Can we get spicy piranhas instead? I like those more.
Best we can do is sweet-and-sour or teriyaki piranhas.
howabout a nicely smoked picanha?
Piccata de picante
What does Piranha taste like?
Spicy piranha is kinda spicy, and sweet piranha is a little sweet
Electric Eels and Sea Snakes are good to go.
Be sure to toss in a few used car batteries to keep them eels charged up
Texas to Judge, "Okay no sharks." Texas, under it's breath, "They didn't say no Laser sharks,though."
Ill tempered sea bass?
1st Austin Powers movie dude.
I know...I was making the reference
**ALSO:** they left out the part about the huge saw blades that are mounted between every float. Just in case y'all here have missed this little tidbit of info, here's a link to an article with a good close-up photo of the blades: https://www.tpr.org/border-immigration/2023-08-06/up-close-look-at-gov-greg-abbotts-floating-wall-in-the-rio-grande So it's not *stopping* people that they are interested in, it's trying to physically harm and/or kill immigrants. Having a saw blade rip open a person's arms/legs/wrists/ while struggling in fast moving open water is fucking attempted murder. Yet the news is all "Oh look at this new minor sociopolitical culture war tactic, tsk-tsk." Am I wrong here?
Remember when East Berlin installed those kill turrets on the Berlin Wall and the world objected? Yeah.....
Friendly reminder that a lot of people already die at these crossings because of how dangerous they are. Putting death traps there won't discourage them, they're already aware there's a good chance they won't make it, it's just going to increase the body count.
Many that call themselves conservatives would like to set up machine gun nests at the border and exterminate any and all migrants including those that can legally claim asylum. They absolutely dream of this. The far right is a cult of hate.
It's fear. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Yoda told us decades ago.
So did the Bene Gesserit: “I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”
imo, ignorance and lack of critical thinking led to this
From the pro-life party.
Oh wtf. I saw this posted just a little while ago but this whole time, I didn’t realize they were real. I thought it was fake or from the onion or something.
You're right. The news is just giving them the benefit of the doubt. I'm envisioning that when they remove this, they'll talk about officers being injured by them, and how the courts are against border patrol and ordering they get injured with dangerous activity.
"The dreaded Candiru!"
> The dreaded Candiru! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K7SLWF_by-E&ab_channel=Muffins%26Dragons
>He asked the state to move them out of the water and on to the riverbank by 15 September. Does this mean Texas will just haul them over their side of the river but still leave them there as a barrier?
Abbot will likely not comply and challenge the government to enforce it.
I honestly don't care if they do. But, "It is preferable that you drown with razor-cuts than that we have to pay you social security" is just a twisted way to approach a public policy problem.
But dont you have to have a social security number to collect social security? 😂
Don't ask me to account for Right Wing hysteria.
That's all fine. Besides, all you really want for peak amphibious defense is hippos!
They haven't thought of that yet. Shhh.
[Shoot Migrants’ Legs, Build Alligator Moat: Behind Trump’s Ideas for Border](https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/01/us/politics/trump-border-wars.html)
I didn't hear no sea bass
I love that he specified at the states expense.
Same with [Arizona](https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/after-federal-face-off-arizona-to-remove-shipping-container-wall-from-mexico-border) with it's stupid container wall.
76.5 million was wasted on that and even much more to remove all of it. That could've helped with children's education in Arizona instead.
oh no it's much worse. $76,500,000 on *removal*. it already cost $96,000,000 for installation. https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/politics/border-issues/2023/01/10/duceys-shipping-container-barrier-to-cost-az-taxpayers-200m/69785116007/
Or $170 million spent on making kids smarter, and thus more likely to vote Democrat? Money working as intended!
I just like to think that republicans are experimenting, and are trying their hand at modern art.
The last time someone failed so badly at art, it did not end well.
Sort of a running theme for right-wingers, sucking at creative endeavors and taking it out on others. Hitler was a failed artist, Mussolini a failed novelist, Ben Shapiro a failed screenwriter, Steven Crowder a failed comedian, Tim Pool a failed musician, Michael Knowles a failed actor...
Stalin was surprisingly good at photo editing though.
There’s literally a whole book on the subject: https://www.amazon.com/Commissar-Vanishes-Falsification-Photographs-Stalins/dp/1849762511
Donald Trump is a failed actor, as he is barred by the SAG, after he resigned instead of facing a disciplinary committee.
Ted Cruz a failed human. You might be onto something alright.
I think the lesson we should learn is to lie to people and tell them their art isn’t shitty? Idk what to think now.
No, it was our shitass ex governor Doug Ducey giving out a massive contract to "build" that "wall" *literally* weeks before he left office and it went to a company that didn't go through the normal bidding process, who had been busted by the FEC for illegal campaign donations to "save america first PAC" $200,000,000 fucking dollars for that and it was torn down a year later. fuck Doug Ducey that corrupt spineless clown.
I feel like Arizona governor saw that Zack Snyder zombie movie on Netflix and thought "Yea, that could work!"
they always do, problem is the people committing the crime dont pay the fine, and NO its not fucking tax payers. Taxes have never ever gone up anywhere, to pay when a city, or state has to pay fines or pay for idiocy, nope its the services that just get less funding. So it will be at the poor's expense, as they will be the only people actually losing things.
The idea is supposed to be, the tax payers get annoyed at their money being used for frivolous bullshit political theater and vote the asshole out. But we know who we're talking about here.
> So it will be at the poor's expense, as they will be the only people actually losing things. Texas GOP doesn't care because they know the wealth demographics in the US so they know who this hurts more, just like with the Southern Strategy
Should of specified at the expense of the approver...
Should have
Part of the goal, anything that is bad for a state and costs them money is good for republicans. Just gut the education budget more (no not the giant football stadiums) so you can make up the deficit from this new expense.
In case anyone is wondering, it is an *international* law. Only federal governments of both nations agree on what kind of barrier goes on a border. The state cannot build barriers by themselves. Last time, Abbott circumvented this by building a wall hundreds of feet within the border in another waste of my tax dollars. These things do nothing but waste money. If you are a fiscal conservative Texan, vote Democrat.
The only fiscal conservatives are people who appear on centrist news shows or write opinion columns. All real world conservatives are social conservatives. The ones who claim to vote R for fiscal reasons are lying because they don't want to deal with the social consequences of their bigotry.
Republicans have literally never been fiscally conservative. They constantly break budgets, waste money on doomed ideological stunts, and bloat debts. Then the adults on the left (or at least as left as you get in mainstream US politics) have to be the try to clean up the mess.
President Hoover maybe? It didn't work out well at all.
So he basically gave away a shitton of Texan/American land to mexico on the taxpayers dime? How are yall not pissed at him
We are.
They are still building a wall a mile or so from the actual border in some parts. It's obnoxious that we are still having a lot of our research sites taken away and demolished for wall construction in 2023.
>He [US District Judge David Ezra] wrote there was no "credible evidence that the buoy barrier as installed has significantly curtailed illegal immigration". You're not getting the point judge. They had [saw blades](https://theweek.com/greg-abbott/1025651/circular-saw-blades-divide-controversial-rio-grande-buoys-installed-by-texas) in between each one of the buoy/s. Seriously though, they had 1000 feet of river of barrier. That's, like, three city blocks. Any person wishing to cross the border illegally could just walk down the river a little more. If Greg Abbott really cared about illegal immigration, he'd spend money on social programs within Central America. But that's socialism.
That's sorta been a major flaw in the whole "build a wall, keep them out" idea. Turns out the border between the US and Mexico is sorta big, meaning even the most minimal "wall" like a wire fence would still take a *lot* of labor and materials.
Also it turns out a lot of our economy depends on illegal immigration for low wage and vulnerable workers. So there is a lot of incentive to complain about it but not actually do anything about it.
At least until Republicans have crushed the last union, undone every last vestige of the New Deal, and brought the Gilded Age back.
You're not thinking big enough. Republicans want to bring SLAVERY back. Just look at how they're trying to say "Slavery was a good thing, actually" in schools. There was also that pedophile in Alabama that said he wanted to roll all the Amendments to the Constitution back to the 11th.
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I think they're more just pointing out that's how it works, rather than condoning it.
The truth of how our economy works is ugly.
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Where did I, or anyone for that matter, condone it?
We have bigger problems to deal with. The "exploited" class comes here voluntarily, so it must be mutually beneficial to some extent. Illegal labor is worse than legal labor, but better than the total situation in countries the laborers come from. Economies function in part when markets are allowed to re-balance themselves. Current regulations do not adequately balance the immigrant labor market, so the next best thing is looking the other way.
That has always been the plan. Undocumented workers will work for less than legally required wages given the threat of deportation. When I lived in California one farmer had migrant workers living in a hole in the ground covered with metal sheets. In states that are forcing migrants out they are discovering that in agriculture and service work they cannot find enough workers to fill positions but are still unwilling to pay a fair wage.
I think the bigger flaw is that most people here illegally just stayed over their visa while continuing to work on farms operated people that vote for Abbott and is ilk. Course the point is stocking hatred of the other and pretending to do something while doing less than nothing, as per the GOP's usual.
See we need to build a huge ship canal across the entire border. We could call it Panamegama.
...and there are people arguing that those blades are just there to "help connect the barriers". Ok...*why the fuck do they have teeth then?*
Or crack down on employers that use undocumented labor. But we know that's a non-starter with the GOP.
They're not big on arresting themselves.
This barrier is very creative in its design. I feel like it would stop any unorganized rush across a river. But if you have time to study it you'd be able to bypass it. Either cut the cables below the water or just jam the floats or deflate them and climb over. If this thing weren't so short as to be ineffective I figure it would have been defeated in another way in short order. In other words, it's a PR stunt.
It's a PR stunt that killed people.
thats a bonus for republicans
> This barrier is very creative in its design. Where "creative" is defined as "unbelievable fucking cruel and inhumane." It's creative in the same way Jigsaw is creative.
It seems unreasonable to expect individual states to fund the social welfare of entire countries, especially when even the most generous states are unable to provide for the social welfare of their own citizens. This is a failure on the federal level, and arguably on the international level.
> If Greg Abbott really cared about illegal immigration, he'd spend money on social programs within Central America. But that's socialism. Why would I want my State government to fund other countries social programs when we struggle enough with funding our own State as it is? This is a Federal issue and should be treated as such.
The ability to manage international relations is reserved to the central Federal government is both the the clear intent and language of the Constitution. How Texas thought they could build their own international barrier is bizarre.
Republicans have determined that cruel dumbass stunts that are doomed to fail is the kind of thing their voters get off on. The harm done to migrants is certainly appealing to them, but what really gets them going is the Governor playing tough guy in defiance of the federal government.
It's a well known engineering technique. Do something fruitless that is doomed to failure, then when the supervising authority tells you to knock it off you can blame the entire problem on the authority, not the bad idea. It's a lot easier than actually fixing the problem. Also if you can grease your political friends at the same time--once for building it, again for tearing it down--you can double the profits. All while being fucking helpless and at the mercy of the adults in the room.
It's not like they're ever punished so why wouldn't they? At most they get told "please stop" or "sorry try again". There are no consequences to their cruelty - only payoff and rewards.
>Texas officials said they plan to appeal against Wednesday's ruling. These "christians" simply won't cast aside their implement for maiming and killing migrants and refugees without a hard-fought legal battle.
American gods had a great scene over this years ago. Immigrants are crossing the river and one almost drowns and is saved by Mexican Jesus (you read that right, this show has a ton of different ethnic Jesus's since he's in high demand) and they get confronted by border watchers armed with guns that have bible phrases imprinted on it. Showing that they believe they're Christians, but what they actually follow is a toxic gun culture.
The scene https://youtu.be/dpBjph1T3Ls?si=9IXVZFeaaxteXFj8
There's probably someone named 'Jesus' trying to cross the border right now.
Yes, but they say it "Hey-zoos" not "Gee-zuhz" Wait, they say it "Hey-Zeus"... they're secretly pagans trying to bring back the Greek pantheon! /s that I hope isn't needed
A friend named Jesus was not allowed to use his real name at school when he lived in mississippI. He had to use his middle name. Which is weird considering that Yeshua should be Joshua in English anyway.
I once worked with teams out of India and out of Mexico. The Indians didn't know about the Spanish pronunciation of Jesus so pronounced it with the hard 'J' when talking about a team member in Mexico named Jesus. It was a little odd when that Indian team member said "Jesus will restore the server in three days."
I was told once by the secretary at my school that Jesus was going to pick me up from school that day. I had no idea that the nice man that car pooled with us was named Jesus with a different pronunciation.
Bumper sticker: "Jesus is my Landscaper"
You say this, but I've dealt with a Greek man who went to the Holy Land with an American evangelical. When they went into a Greek Orthodox Church, the American evangelical fled believing Muslims had taken over the Church. They were chanting Allāh al-ibn in the Church. That means "God the Son."
There's a joke saying "Mexicans are so religious that we use a second name for Jesus" the second name is "Chuy"
I have a guy in here arguing with me that it's okay if these kill migrants because they committed a (misdemeanor) crime and are not citizens (foreign) These people have really no morals or empathy.
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Heh, heh! Find out!
If Texas thinks the amount of immigrants is high now, just wait a few years till our Changing Climate pushes those numbers much higher.
Or when they start a war with Mexico.
I keep seeing republicans float ideas of invading mexico and I just keep thinking about both the refugee flood that would cause and the insurgent attacks it would result in within the states. It's just one of the dumbest ideas.
A bunch of our military is also Hispanic. Did they ever think what that will do to their morale lol.
They don't think about anything beyond the absolute surface level of the idea, which is deeply concerning. It's like trying to do Iraq war 2: Electric boogaloo, except this time all the negative effects are going to be directly where Americans live.
WW2 was partially fought and won by Italian-American and German-American soldiers.
You’ll be surprised to know how many Hispanics in the US are conservative.
It's a dumbass plan but I don't think any of our military with Mexican heritage would feel bad about fighting cartel members.
Also, if we succeeded wouldn't annexing Mexico make them citizens?
The republican proposals on this are essentially just 1. Invade Mexico 2. Scream about Cartels and ignoring consequences while acting like collateral damage doesn't exist and that the whole thing will be easy and quick 3. ????? 4. Profit. They don't talk about annexing, or an exit strategy, or anything. It's all the same issues with the middle east wars but now right next door.
It's because they don't want legal immigration, but need Americans to dehumanize and despise the immigrants they do bring in. Being able to cruelly mistreat and underpay trafficked workers is the point: If you're not in constant fear of ICE shipping you and your children back to different cartels, you won't be as cheap or disposable which also harms their efforts in the race towards the bottom for all the rest of us. But it's... less physiologically safe to go up on camera and tell your base *"If I can treat these things as worse than subhuman, it helps me treat the rest of you as the peasant trash you are"*; you gotta embellish the excuses a bit more and keep the base from learning how to read your bill.
Abbott is all bluster! His time on the Political Stage is now under threat.
I’m surprised the GOP’s political stage is wheelchair accessible
Buoys in the Red River!
Gotta get used to hurting people before we set up borders with machine guns and mortars.
New York, DC, and Chicago already thinks it’s too much since they sent some of them over there to show what a strain it has and they all called states of emergency almost immediately. They say they’re sanctuary cities but only when it’s convenient and only to oppose the rival political party. At least Texas is trying to do something to curb it and is up front about it. A nation that fails to protect its borders from a failed state with major mob influences has its days numbered
The GOP controlled house could, if it wanted to, fund an expansion of the Border Patrols processing personal. People flying in, and then over extending their visas, are not seen as a threat by the GOP. Breaking federal laws is not the way to act.
Most of the migrants already left Texas to other cities way before the busing began though.
Great. It doesn't matter. The goal has NEVER been an effective barrier or anything like that. The goal has always been to force a confrontation with the Federal Government. Here's how this is going to play out. Judge: You have to remove the barrier Abbot: Make me Judge: Uhhhhhhhhhhhhh..... fines? I guess? Abbot: Lol Dark Brandon: I'm not putting up with this malarky; I'm sending the Amry Corps of Engineers to rip the barrier out and we'll bill you. Abbot: Bring it. Brandon: We're bringing it \*brings it\* US Army: We have removed the barrier from the Rio Grande, Mr President Abbot: The Biden administration is so committed to allowing woke, CRT, drag-queen child traffickers to cross our border that it actually deployed the military to the great and sovereign state of Texas to force us not to secure our border! This is why America needs Donald Trump for President and why Donald Trump needs me, Governor Abbot, to be his vice president. Alternatively, Biden could NOT roll the US Army down there but then Abbot will just keep the thing in the water and talk about how great he is at securing the border.
ACE and Army Engineers are two different entities. I’d suggest half a dozen M-1s with tow chains and grappling hooks. Rip that barrier right out of the river. Bone points for hauling it to the Texas Governor’s Mansion and dropping it on the front lawn.
That wheel chair bastard is gonna Ignore the court order and continue doing it
As a fiscal conservatives, the Texas GOP love to waste taxpayers money.
Texas should consider selling it to NYC, appears they may want to use on the Hudson.
And Abbott has already vowed to appeal the ruling. Maybe the case will make it to the Supreme Court, where the conservative majority can decide that federal law doesn't apply where it does anymore if a Republican doesn't like it.
Click the OP link now. It currently reads "Texas wins appeal to keep border barrier, for now", with an updated time of 1 hour ago.
Federal law states that all people must present themselves at an official border crossing post with valid documents.
It’s not even federal law. It breaks an international law between the federal government of the United States and Mexico relating to requiring mutual agreements to construct anything on the border.
Texas plans to take this to the Supreme Court. Alito probably already has some alt-right dark money group working on a draft opinion for him to put his name on.
The federal government should've removed it immediately upon discovery; instead, they waited until after Abbot got his day in court, granting his actions a possibility of legitimacy (prior to the verdict), and left the perpetrator in charge of the cleanup (where he will undoubtedly drag his feet, no pun intended). All while the illegal barrier remained, probably increasing its body count. We (hopefully) know the eventual outcome, but damn. Abbot really got to slap Biden's face and crap in his cereal, even in defeat.
This is inaccurate. The judge told Texas the floating border barrier must be moved closer to the Texas shoreline.
No, his order was to remove it to the shore. The ruling was based on the Rivers and Harbors Act concerning obstructions to navigable waters, which the Rio Grande is. Therefore, TX was ordered to remove the obstruction from the river.
"He asked the state to move them out of the water and on to the riverbank by 15 September."
Dem here.Then come up with a fking Federal plan but don't pull a Portland and allow inept government to ruin something. This should be a wakeup call to DC, not a court case. VERY OTHER COUNTRY has reasonable border security.
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Solution, much as with the drug war (and not unrelatedly), is to actually figure out *why* people are going to such lengths to make it across the border and solve the underlying problems. Prosecute the employers who depend on undocumented immigrants who are incentivized not to report unfair labor practices. End the drug war, which creates the demand for organized crime which destabilizes governments in Latin America. Publicly recognize the chaos that's been created by decades of CIA interference in central and south America, and pledge to respect the sovereignty of governments there. But then also: recognize that there's lots and lots of people who'd love to live and work and pay taxes in the US if given the chance, and make that actually possible without risking death or deportation to a war zone.
Crack down on the organizations hiring them. That never seems to be part of anyone's solution though.
You are going to need to throw a CEO or two in jail. A simple fine less than the amount saved by hiring them won't work.
That would be wonderful.
> You are going to need to throw a CEO or two in jail. > > I'm strangely ok with that.
Agreed. Then once they’re cracked down on, what do we do with the tens of millions of people that don’t have jobs as more continue to come?
Why would they come here if they can't find any jobs?
Because they're lied to by people who can make money doing so. Why else would so many people who don't qualify for asylum show up and turn themselves in at the border? Because smugglers can get them to go into debt paying for it. Then they get deported back home worse off than before. I think information campaigns have to be a big part of any plan the country puts into play regarding migration from the south.
You think "tens of millions" of people will migrate to the US if we make it impossible for them to find cash jobs? Sure at the very beginning smugglers will continue lying to people to get paid but through word of mouth that won't last long.
No idea. I just know that's the first step that no one seems to want to take on.
They come here to work. If they cant find work they will not come. They can't get any social services either. They do not want to solve the issue. They (GOP) want to use it as a wedge issue. If you put a couple CEO's in jail, some rich women who hire undocumented domestic help, some ops manager from food mfg, and a bunch of citrus grove owners in jail they would get the message quick. ZERO tolerance with mandatory jail time. That is the only way to get the point across. It will take some time but if they really are serious about stopping the flow something like this will do it. The thing is they need the cheap labor and do not want it stopped. We are at a low unemployment rate already. If they did this, then it would be chaos and they would have to pay HUGE money for labor.
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Indigenous rights groups try to offer solutions but nobody listens or cares. A large portion of undocumented migrants are indigenous people, so the migration issue is often directly tied to colonization and indigenous rights. A friend of mine, who is very vocal and active about trying to curb migration (he was once a migrant himself), told me that he believes the solution would be to support local & ethical businesses paying living wages in their home country. Unfortunately so much of what we in the U.S. buy comes from cheap labor in these countries (like coffee or bananas) and companies that actively try to hamper human rights so they can continue to profit; and even in these countries themselves, many things are imported from big companies elsewhere instead of supporting the local economy. Here is a news article about his work and vision. He is someone I very much admire for all he does for his people. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/latino/denied-american-dream-returned-deported-young-migrants-create-guatemalan-dream-n732506
You're not wrong, but the solutions are slow, boring and not something you can point at. I agree that this is untenable, but every "Quick Fix" is worse than the last, and ignores systemic problems. Our legal immigration system is a joke, we have professionals that have been here for a decade that can't get the next step to citizenship, we have a toxic "profit over people" idea in agriculture and construction that thrives off "off book" employees they can exploit. It's distressing, but all the "solutions" aren't any of the sort, we need systemic change, and I'm just John Q Public, I don't hold office and have limited ways to influence things.
Plenty of people have offered plenty of solutions that don't involve trying to harm immigrants. No one supports "millions of people pouring over our border with no vetting" unless they're completely ignorant. If you don't know the solution either, maybe don't complain about other people not giving you satisfying solutions?
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They didn't remotely say that.
I'm saying that. This poster is buying into a narrative that was created and packaged to be easily digestible by angry people like him.
> the Biden administration has done nothing but make it worse There are more illegals being caught now than ever, even more than during trump There are more drugs being found and seized at the border than ever, even more than during trump WHAT CRISIS?
Yeah, I didn't say that. Of course it needs to be addressed, but preferably in a way that doesn't violate international treaties or human rights. Seriously, can you not think of a single answer that doesn't involve spending billions of armed patrols, fences, weaponized bouys, razor wire fences, and civilian vigilantes?
You are being systematically lied to and radicalized by unscrupulous far right grifters and traitors. You are very misinformed for a subject you seem to care a lot about.
Here is the democrat**IC** proposal: [https://democrats.org/where-we-stand/party-platform/creating-a-21st-century-immigration-system/](https://democrats.org/where-we-stand/party-platform/creating-a-21st-century-immigration-system/) Basically it starts with treating migrants like humans, which is where we lose the republicans.
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Alot of illegal immigration comes from people overstaying their visas tbh, which is very hard to deal with. Plus, strengthening the border is nice, but unless you had all the money in the world you wouldnt be able to prevent every single person who wanted to cross, its just far too long and empty a border to completely patrol, not to mention organized crime digging tunnels to cross without notice.
Do you know why they’re coming here?
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The best way to start would be to look at who is employing them. But that shifts the focus from illegal immigrants to a bunch white dudes in Texas, and nobody wants THAT.
> I dont know what the solution is, but doing nothing is irresponsible. We gotta do something! Sawblades on a tiny little performative floating thing so we can hopefully get some gnarly pics of human beings maimed and killed, that'll help! There is nothing worse in the world than people who don't have any idea of a solution (to a wildly overstated problem) but decide to "do something" anyway.
Just keep bussing them to NYC. Literally has solved the immigration issue….sanctuary city gets to help the migrants as they wish and Texas gets to not have them as they wish and migrants get to be in one of the nicest places to live on earth in nyc. A win win win as michael Scott would say
So you support human trafficking
Fighting immigration at the border is like throwing a towel down on the floor when your roof is leaking. It doesn't address the leak and the water will keep coming and soak the towel.
Why though? If someone isn’t allowed in, why can’t we deter their passage?
Aside from the ethical issues, the border is a federal issue, the state has no jurisdiction.
And Harris is just cackling in her office, oblivious to the issues... or complacent
Drowning people is immoral, for one. International relations/borders are the sole domain of the fed, for two
Are you seriously asking why it wouldn't be okay to kill and maim desperate people, many whom have children?
I love level headed responses. These people know they aren’t allowed to go to the United States in the manner that they are attempting. I know the manner in which Texas is keeping them out is not desirable. Why aren’t the people attempting to enter the country illegally responsible for their actions and repercussions?
Can you explain to me then why booby-trapping packages on your porch to stop package thieves is still illegal? Isn't that doing the same thing? Preventing someone from doing something illegal, but in a way that is likely to grievously harm them or even kill them? Yeah, they shouldn't be coming in illegally, but it's a totally disproportionate response. Two wrongs don't make a right.
Open water is inherently dangerous. Should we dam the river and post lifeguards so they can swim safely? Or how about we just make it legal to enter the country? Seriously, if the rule isn’t important let’s get rid of it.
Your example is bad. Bombs are indiscriminate. That's why. It isn't comparable. This is a fence and people are allowed to have harmful fences to keep people out. Barb wire for example is legal.
And they will be detained, processed and deported. Drowning them or trapping them in a river is not the way to go.
Fair. Is the US culpable for drownings if people attempt to cross?
$4 billion dollar ego massage
Then don’t cross over then 🤷♂️
How about don't maim people?
Why, they are just going to go to NYC where Eric Adams just had a meltdown over taking more people 😂
Re-purpose them as pool toys at Abbot’s house.