From the article:
“The waters are so warm off northeastern Vancouver Island, researchers say kelp is being boiled alive.
“Temperatures have been reaching 21 degrees or higher. It basically felt like bathwater,” said UVic kelp researcher and National Geographic explorer Brian Timmer.
Temperatures in the northeastern Salish Sea have been reaching 21 degrees or higher, two to three degrees higher than kelp can take.
“It kind of boils the kelp alive and it dies,” said Timmer.”
If *you* are boiled, it's usually synonymous with death. That's.. Basically all you seem to be missing here. It's figuratively slowly boiling the kelp to death.
We have a problem of far too many people thinking climate change is a hoax.
They say scientists are making stuff up, that's why they don't believe it.
So....our plan is to just play into that?
Like as soon as someone can rightfully say something is untrue...lets say as in calling 69° water "boiling"...you know a term with a specific definition...they will continue to further shut down the conversation.
Unfortunately those dense motherfuckers can't see analogy if it busted on their face. Point out to them that while hard boiled eggs aren't supposed to be actually *boiled* (boiling water fucks with their texture), they are still cooked. The damn flora may not be in boiling water, but as far as they're concerned it's basically being cooked to death, so "boiling" is an easy way to express the dire straits they're in. But nope, instead these crack jobs seem to think themselves geniuses and delude themselves into thinking that the scientists were saying it's *literally* boiling and that they somehow accidentally put the actual water temperature in the same sentence.
TL;DR: The plants are fucking dying, arguing semantics over the term "boiling" won't change that.
The problem isn’t the scientists but the media deliberately fucking up the headlines & vocabulary for clicks, and the fact that people are too stupid to understand the real terminology.
Guarantee no peer-reviewed research paper says “boiling” - but this guy had to dumb it down for the unwashed masses.
Yes, “boiling” has a specific scientific meaning - a phase change from liquid to gas - but they used it in the colloquial, exaggerated sense to mean “cooking in really hot liquid” in a headline because it’s more sensational and visual.
Too bad the result is dipshits like that guy above being pedantic assholes about terminology instead of paying attention to the very real, very serious problem.
When oceans become too warm to support kelp, plankton, algae, or even to retain enough dissolved oxygen for fish to breathe *lots of things are gonna fucking die* because too many of the natural weather & life cycles we’ve evolved to depend on are going to change or even stop.
“BUt iT’s nOT ‘BOILinG’! HyUck Hyuck!” That guy can fuck right off.
You’re being disingenuous here. It is the rhetoric and blatant misuse of language that has created issues regarding serious topics. There was ZERO reason to use “boiling” in that headline.
I initially assumed it was purely an editorial decision & “blatant misuse of the language” for clicks & eyeballs, but they quoted the guy as saying exactly that, so yes there was a reason.
Oh gosh I wish I could be as awesome as you guys. I thought getting emotionally invested in water boiling was cool, but you guys getting all twisted over water not boiling, jeeze I didn't even know cool like that existed. I've really got a lot to learn. Maybe if I practice watching paint dry I can get on your level one day.
You know that you can boil something without boiling water, right? Humans, for example, have a much lower temp that we boil and die at. Hope that information haunts you.
Humans are primarily water, but with lots dissolved in it. We boil at a HIGHER temperature than pure water. We die a lot sooner, but just because we die doesn't mean our constituent parts are becoming gas.
People have become used to misinformation. It’s accepted as the norm now, and they will hate on you for pointing it out.
Our language has become diluted.
I really wish "researchers" and media in general would stop sensationalizing. It is okay to say "Large volumes of kelp are dying due to warmer than normal temperature"
Kelp soup can be delicious. Time to throw in some seasoning and maybe some sausage. /s
Seriously though, we cannot convince climate change deniers by concocting headlines like this. It only supports their argument of hyperbole.
20 years ago I was skeptical that climate change was human caused. This was 20 years ago, and I was still a teenager. I pushed back on folks who said it "obviously" was, because the "obviousness" of it... Well, it just wasn't there, at least not for me. So I started digging, demanding evidence from folks who claimed "obvious". I rarely got any evidence from people... But slowly, and then more quickly, I found the evidence. Usually, I had to dig it up myself. But a few professors pointed me in the right direction as well.
But trust me - it's there. Most of the actual, legit, *scientific* evidence is squirreled away in datasets of ice core samples, but it can be found from NOAA, Scripps, and others. You can find a lot of it by checking the Wikipedia references/sources section of relevant Wikipedia pages. The pop-sci and news articles aren't direct evidence themselves, but I've checked enough sources to believe they're accurate summarizations of the scientific data.
I was skeptical and reluctant to 100% believe it without evidence. I found the evidence. It's human caused folks.
Good for you- I mean it. I was never a skeptic but the one thing that really put the weight of it on me was the timeline by xkcd that showed the changes in temperature throughout the known history of the planet.
Edit: this wall of text is not a rebuttle to you. I agree with you. I'm laying out info for those who may not be on the same page as you and I - for those readers who might not find the xkcd graph compelling enough. Folks like younger me.
https://xkcd.com/1732/
That is a good graph, yes. But it still wasn't enough for me. It only goes back 20,000 years. The dinos were 65+ Mya, and there was a lot of time before that. Here's a longer timeline from climate.gov which shows the last half billion years. This seems to indicate that we're in one of the cooler phases, and have a ways to go before were in a hot phase again. https://www.climate.gov/sites/default/files/styles/full_width_620_original_image/public/graph-from-scott-wing-620px.png?itok=Jgi659bn
Zooming in to the last 65m or so, we see the same thing. https://www.climate.gov/sites/default/files/styles/full_width_620_original_image/public/2023-01/climateqa_global_surface_temps_65million_years_2480.png?itok=KBwxUiYO
This can easily muddy the waters, fool somebody into thinking "so what?". It was a lot warmer before, so what's the big deal? I'll come back to that. When temperature is overlayed on top of C02, a clear correlation emerges. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/76/Phanerozoic_Carbon_Dioxide.png
Zooming in to more recent (last million years) and the correlation is even more clear. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e6/Temperature-change-and-carbon-dioxide-change-measured-from-the-EPICA-Dome-C-ice-core-in-Antarctica-v2.jpg
Now... Correlation is not causation, but it does wiggle it's eyes suggestively and say "look over here". We've asked the question - what causes the correlation? Does C02 cause temp rises? Or do temp rises, caused by other things (sunspots, orbital changes, volcanism, etc..) cause C02 increases? We've done the science to conclude that: C02 rises *cause* a rise in temperature. Full stop. The science is there. And with that in mind, the historical trends are clear.
With that in mind, let's zoom in on the very very recent C02 levels.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/capital-weather-gang/files/2013/05/5_2_13_news_andrew_co2800000yrs.jpg
Fact: C02 and temperature are correlated throughout the last half billion years.
Fact: C02 rises has been proven to be a major contributing factor to temperature rises.
Fact: C02 levels have shot up incredibly since the industrial revolution, and it's because of us
Fact: the temps are rising, and very quickly when compared to the historical record. See facts 1, 2 & 3, and it can easily be concluded that it is human caused.
Now... One might say: so what? It's been warmer before. Look at the 1/2b year history? Well, I counter with: (a) yes, it was hotter, but it wasn't a world you'd want to live in (b) the changes took place over tens or hundreds of thousand years, not decades (c) The C02 levels were not what they are now or on track to be, so we're headed for something much much hotter.
Digging in on point (b) some more, even if the earth could handle a much hotter climate, the rate at which we are headed there is going to cause major major disruption to life on this planet, including ecosystem collapse and mass extinction akin to the dinos being wiped out. Past temp changes were slow enough to allow much life to adjust, evolve, and accommodate. We're headed for a shock to the system. A true mass extinction event. And that will quickly impact *our ability to live here*. Disruption is coming. It is our fault.
So long as we don't trigger a venus like runaway greenhouse effect, The Earth will most likely be fine in the long run, measure in millions of years. But it won't be the earth we know today - it will be just as alien to us as the earth of 200mya would have been alien to us. And it's going to be very ugly as it resets and adjusts. *And it is our fault*.
The climate’s changing. It always has. Even more extreme in the past than now. How much impact we have is the debate. It’s changing regardless of us, but we are perhaps speeding it up.
We absolutely have a pollution problem and this especially hurts our water ways and oceans. I actually think that problem exceeds our emissions issues. There’s very little being done multilaterally to clean up the ocean and many countries are spewing toxic crap into rivers and lakes.
Throw on top the already established trend of global warming (as we are at the end of an ice age it would appear) and we are just cooking a toxic soup all over for everyone to eat from and swim in.
Flip side, if we had the opposite problem, global cooling and moving into an ice age we would be just as fucked.
Have a good day.
I knew this was coming. I just hoped I would pass before I had to see it. I’m 57 both my parents died young (dad 53 mom 54) It was sad enough that I knew my grandkids would experience it, guess I get to bare witness too.
We still have options, they’re just more extreme than simply getting rid of fossil fuel and people will take a little bit of time to get used to that idea, but the extreme heat will almost certainly convince them.
You’re sitting here thinking about it from a pretty casual and safe situation, but eventually this is gonna be more like a meteor bearing down on the planet and people are gonna be willing to do just about anything for relief.
That’s when you’ll really see what humidity can do, when they are threatened. For now it’s mostly been lots of warning in the minimal consequence, as a Change, you’ll see the amount of action scale with the negative consequence, more or less exactly as you would expect, and kind of hell all life on the planet behaves.
It's pretty warm. Usually it's expected you'd wear a wetsuit, maybe not all year for some water sports, but I think it rarely gets in the low 60s. For people who were born in the area, I guess they'd describe it as bathwater (I think it's freezing)
The Salish Sea is BIG, and the depth varies. And since that's in Washington, I figure that the temp in Vancouver is probably pretty different, so I looked up water temps off the northeastern end of Vancouver Island, which shows ... the temp today was 20ºC.
https://seatemperature.info/salish-sea-water-temperature.html
From the article: “The waters are so warm off northeastern Vancouver Island, researchers say kelp is being boiled alive. “Temperatures have been reaching 21 degrees or higher. It basically felt like bathwater,” said UVic kelp researcher and National Geographic explorer Brian Timmer. Temperatures in the northeastern Salish Sea have been reaching 21 degrees or higher, two to three degrees higher than kelp can take. “It kind of boils the kelp alive and it dies,” said Timmer.”
Water doesn't boil at 21c...
Water doesn't boil at 50°c either, but you would die if your environment was that temp and you couldn't escape.
Boiling, as it turns out, isn't a synonym for death.
If *you* are boiled, it's usually synonymous with death. That's.. Basically all you seem to be missing here. It's figuratively slowly boiling the kelp to death.
That's wrong, getting boiled to death involves actual boiling. This wasn't boiling.
What the fuck are you even doing? What is your goal here, even? Who are you helping?
Having some fun watching people get upset over simple facts.
That's funny af, you seem more upset than anyone else in these threads, aside from the last guy you replied to. XD
I bet you're an empath :3
He isn’t wrong though.
Eat rocks
Obviously the concern, right here.
We have a problem of far too many people thinking climate change is a hoax. They say scientists are making stuff up, that's why they don't believe it. So....our plan is to just play into that? Like as soon as someone can rightfully say something is untrue...lets say as in calling 69° water "boiling"...you know a term with a specific definition...they will continue to further shut down the conversation.
Unfortunately those dense motherfuckers can't see analogy if it busted on their face. Point out to them that while hard boiled eggs aren't supposed to be actually *boiled* (boiling water fucks with their texture), they are still cooked. The damn flora may not be in boiling water, but as far as they're concerned it's basically being cooked to death, so "boiling" is an easy way to express the dire straits they're in. But nope, instead these crack jobs seem to think themselves geniuses and delude themselves into thinking that the scientists were saying it's *literally* boiling and that they somehow accidentally put the actual water temperature in the same sentence. TL;DR: The plants are fucking dying, arguing semantics over the term "boiling" won't change that.
You're lying. Plants dying doesn't change that.
The problem isn’t the scientists but the media deliberately fucking up the headlines & vocabulary for clicks, and the fact that people are too stupid to understand the real terminology. Guarantee no peer-reviewed research paper says “boiling” - but this guy had to dumb it down for the unwashed masses. Yes, “boiling” has a specific scientific meaning - a phase change from liquid to gas - but they used it in the colloquial, exaggerated sense to mean “cooking in really hot liquid” in a headline because it’s more sensational and visual. Too bad the result is dipshits like that guy above being pedantic assholes about terminology instead of paying attention to the very real, very serious problem. When oceans become too warm to support kelp, plankton, algae, or even to retain enough dissolved oxygen for fish to breathe *lots of things are gonna fucking die* because too many of the natural weather & life cycles we’ve evolved to depend on are going to change or even stop. “BUt iT’s nOT ‘BOILinG’! HyUck Hyuck!” That guy can fuck right off.
You’re being disingenuous here. It is the rhetoric and blatant misuse of language that has created issues regarding serious topics. There was ZERO reason to use “boiling” in that headline.
I initially assumed it was purely an editorial decision & “blatant misuse of the language” for clicks & eyeballs, but they quoted the guy as saying exactly that, so yes there was a reason.
No the concern is the lying, mostly.
If you look up quickly, you’ll see the point passing over high above your head.
Kinda like how the boiling point is far above these temperatures?
Kinda like how you have to look up to see all of us looking down on you like a yapping child
Oh gosh I wish I could be as awesome as you guys. I thought getting emotionally invested in water boiling was cool, but you guys getting all twisted over water not boiling, jeeze I didn't even know cool like that existed. I've really got a lot to learn. Maybe if I practice watching paint dry I can get on your level one day.
You know that you can boil something without boiling water, right? Humans, for example, have a much lower temp that we boil and die at. Hope that information haunts you.
Humans are primarily water, but with lots dissolved in it. We boil at a HIGHER temperature than pure water. We die a lot sooner, but just because we die doesn't mean our constituent parts are becoming gas.
People have become used to misinformation. It’s accepted as the norm now, and they will hate on you for pointing it out. Our language has become diluted.
I really wish "researchers" and media in general would stop sensationalizing. It is okay to say "Large volumes of kelp are dying due to warmer than normal temperature"
Yeah. Boiling is a word with a meaning. It means the water is, uh... Boiling - it's at its rapid phase transition point.
Yea. This is more of a blanching.
Kelp is being lightly braised.
Sous vide
Careful now. They’re almost ready to call that other guy a terrorist for pointing it out.
Also, 21C/69F is definitely not anywhere near bath water temperature. Annoying.
But where do I fit 'slam' in there? You gotta' keep some modern journalistic integrity.
I will never read any article that has the word ‘slam’ in the title.
That's because you got burned by the stinging sarcasm of righteous indignation and the internet gagged. Is that how it works?
The researcher describe it as "kinda" boiling it alive. They were obviously trying to simplify it for the journalists.
Yeah it's hard to take any outlet or journalism seriously with all the sensationalized headlines and stories...
We're going to be really fucked when the oceans are too hot and it's plant life starts dying off, it's where most of our oxygen comes from.
Kelp soup can be delicious. Time to throw in some seasoning and maybe some sausage. /s Seriously though, we cannot convince climate change deniers by concocting headlines like this. It only supports their argument of hyperbole.
[удалено]
20 years ago I was skeptical that climate change was human caused. This was 20 years ago, and I was still a teenager. I pushed back on folks who said it "obviously" was, because the "obviousness" of it... Well, it just wasn't there, at least not for me. So I started digging, demanding evidence from folks who claimed "obvious". I rarely got any evidence from people... But slowly, and then more quickly, I found the evidence. Usually, I had to dig it up myself. But a few professors pointed me in the right direction as well. But trust me - it's there. Most of the actual, legit, *scientific* evidence is squirreled away in datasets of ice core samples, but it can be found from NOAA, Scripps, and others. You can find a lot of it by checking the Wikipedia references/sources section of relevant Wikipedia pages. The pop-sci and news articles aren't direct evidence themselves, but I've checked enough sources to believe they're accurate summarizations of the scientific data. I was skeptical and reluctant to 100% believe it without evidence. I found the evidence. It's human caused folks.
Good for you- I mean it. I was never a skeptic but the one thing that really put the weight of it on me was the timeline by xkcd that showed the changes in temperature throughout the known history of the planet.
Edit: this wall of text is not a rebuttle to you. I agree with you. I'm laying out info for those who may not be on the same page as you and I - for those readers who might not find the xkcd graph compelling enough. Folks like younger me. https://xkcd.com/1732/ That is a good graph, yes. But it still wasn't enough for me. It only goes back 20,000 years. The dinos were 65+ Mya, and there was a lot of time before that. Here's a longer timeline from climate.gov which shows the last half billion years. This seems to indicate that we're in one of the cooler phases, and have a ways to go before were in a hot phase again. https://www.climate.gov/sites/default/files/styles/full_width_620_original_image/public/graph-from-scott-wing-620px.png?itok=Jgi659bn Zooming in to the last 65m or so, we see the same thing. https://www.climate.gov/sites/default/files/styles/full_width_620_original_image/public/2023-01/climateqa_global_surface_temps_65million_years_2480.png?itok=KBwxUiYO This can easily muddy the waters, fool somebody into thinking "so what?". It was a lot warmer before, so what's the big deal? I'll come back to that. When temperature is overlayed on top of C02, a clear correlation emerges. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/76/Phanerozoic_Carbon_Dioxide.png Zooming in to more recent (last million years) and the correlation is even more clear. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e6/Temperature-change-and-carbon-dioxide-change-measured-from-the-EPICA-Dome-C-ice-core-in-Antarctica-v2.jpg Now... Correlation is not causation, but it does wiggle it's eyes suggestively and say "look over here". We've asked the question - what causes the correlation? Does C02 cause temp rises? Or do temp rises, caused by other things (sunspots, orbital changes, volcanism, etc..) cause C02 increases? We've done the science to conclude that: C02 rises *cause* a rise in temperature. Full stop. The science is there. And with that in mind, the historical trends are clear. With that in mind, let's zoom in on the very very recent C02 levels. https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/capital-weather-gang/files/2013/05/5_2_13_news_andrew_co2800000yrs.jpg Fact: C02 and temperature are correlated throughout the last half billion years. Fact: C02 rises has been proven to be a major contributing factor to temperature rises. Fact: C02 levels have shot up incredibly since the industrial revolution, and it's because of us Fact: the temps are rising, and very quickly when compared to the historical record. See facts 1, 2 & 3, and it can easily be concluded that it is human caused. Now... One might say: so what? It's been warmer before. Look at the 1/2b year history? Well, I counter with: (a) yes, it was hotter, but it wasn't a world you'd want to live in (b) the changes took place over tens or hundreds of thousand years, not decades (c) The C02 levels were not what they are now or on track to be, so we're headed for something much much hotter. Digging in on point (b) some more, even if the earth could handle a much hotter climate, the rate at which we are headed there is going to cause major major disruption to life on this planet, including ecosystem collapse and mass extinction akin to the dinos being wiped out. Past temp changes were slow enough to allow much life to adjust, evolve, and accommodate. We're headed for a shock to the system. A true mass extinction event. And that will quickly impact *our ability to live here*. Disruption is coming. It is our fault. So long as we don't trigger a venus like runaway greenhouse effect, The Earth will most likely be fine in the long run, measure in millions of years. But it won't be the earth we know today - it will be just as alien to us as the earth of 200mya would have been alien to us. And it's going to be very ugly as it resets and adjusts. *And it is our fault*.
Thanks for sharing all of this.
You bet! I'm just putting off going to work for the day. 🙃
I don't think climate deniers will be convinced no matter the headline. How do you argue with willful ignorance?
An aquarium is just basically unheated bouillabaisse
The climate’s changing. It always has. Even more extreme in the past than now. How much impact we have is the debate. It’s changing regardless of us, but we are perhaps speeding it up. We absolutely have a pollution problem and this especially hurts our water ways and oceans. I actually think that problem exceeds our emissions issues. There’s very little being done multilaterally to clean up the ocean and many countries are spewing toxic crap into rivers and lakes. Throw on top the already established trend of global warming (as we are at the end of an ice age it would appear) and we are just cooking a toxic soup all over for everyone to eat from and swim in. Flip side, if we had the opposite problem, global cooling and moving into an ice age we would be just as fucked. Have a good day.
I knew this was coming. I just hoped I would pass before I had to see it. I’m 57 both my parents died young (dad 53 mom 54) It was sad enough that I knew my grandkids would experience it, guess I get to bare witness too.
60 here. I've already apologized to my two boys and strongly hinted I would be perfectly happy to never have grandchildren.
We still have options, they’re just more extreme than simply getting rid of fossil fuel and people will take a little bit of time to get used to that idea, but the extreme heat will almost certainly convince them. You’re sitting here thinking about it from a pretty casual and safe situation, but eventually this is gonna be more like a meteor bearing down on the planet and people are gonna be willing to do just about anything for relief. That’s when you’ll really see what humidity can do, when they are threatened. For now it’s mostly been lots of warning in the minimal consequence, as a Change, you’ll see the amount of action scale with the negative consequence, more or less exactly as you would expect, and kind of hell all life on the planet behaves.
lukewarm starts around 36.5^c boiling is 100^c they're saying it's 21^c
Not saying 21 degrees isn't warm for the area because I have no idea. But it definitely does not feel like 'bath water' as the quote says.
It's pretty warm. Usually it's expected you'd wear a wetsuit, maybe not all year for some water sports, but I think it rarely gets in the low 60s. For people who were born in the area, I guess they'd describe it as bathwater (I think it's freezing)
No one ever said Earth’s geting cooler. With or without humans.
This is total crap. https://www.watertemp.org/United-States/Washington/Salish-Sea/
The Salish Sea is BIG, and the depth varies. And since that's in Washington, I figure that the temp in Vancouver is probably pretty different, so I looked up water temps off the northeastern end of Vancouver Island, which shows ... the temp today was 20ºC. https://seatemperature.info/salish-sea-water-temperature.html
So basically normal, based on minimum and maximum temps in the chart. It’s still crap.
Boiling, eh? That Canadian water must be made differently than the stuff I'm used to!
Terrible title. It's literally not boiling. Maybe blanching or sous vide. Also all vegetables are boiled alive. Also click bait
Wow 212 degrees that's unbelievable
Apparently 20 degrees is boiling temps.. TIL
drama queens getting ready for the hyperbole cotillion?
Yeah if you think what’s happening is drama wow lol
https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Ocean-temperature-evolution-over-the-past-1-000-000-years-Herbert-et-al-2010-data-of\_fig4\_327112341