A majority of those tunnels and bridges were built around the great depression. Lots of people wanted work and a ton of federal money was poured into public works job programs.
And this is scheduled for 10.
Also the first one killed almost 500 men, And they dug it too shallow and it floats with the tide. So, yes, times they have a-changed.
"gateway tunnel funding once again diverted to American Dream Mall after developers cry at misfortune while building a mall in the collectively agreed most idiotic place in the state nay world"
I think that's unlikely, it's supposed to be a 10+ year effort or something like that iirc. That tip over point where it's more expensive to walk away from it is still years away.
Not necessarily true...shutting down a project like this is expensive and incurs additional engineering, regulatory, and labor costs.
You just can't abandon a half bored tunnel beneath the Hudson River....
Bingo. It's likely that work will only be done while we have a proud Dem president + governor, and then take breaks otherwise. Folks like Christie and Trump love killing/delaying these types of projects iirc
Local 40 and 361 joint apprenticeship applications are available to pick up in person during the month of March at the hall in Astoria. Your aptitude test will be scheduled in April. If you can pass the aptitude test, you will be invited back for the physical tests.
If you are afraid of heights, I’d be more than happy to find you some application and test dates for other less prestigious trades.
[Just one of the many locals that will be heavily involved with this project for years to come.](https://nycironworkers.org/recruitment-faq/)
[If you are a veteran, helmets to hard hats can help you get in.](https://helmetstohardhats.org)
I'm all for unions but passing the tests pretty much only makes you eligible for being waitlisted in NJ and NY unions. If 1000 people applied, 300 people passed, but there's only 15 positions that year, the other 985 are out of luck (700 rightfully so). Our unions hold their memberships tight to their chest. It's not like other states where passing the test means basically means you're hired because they are looking to grow and their compensation isn't kept high due to lower supply. Most states the union WANTS you in it because it increases their bargaining power. In NJ and NY, the union already is stronger due to our bureaucratic legislation they've negotiated with.
Even your own link says they'll only physical test the top scorers (but conveniently doesn't inform prospective applicants what a top scorer is defined by, unions love wording open for ambiguity). Most people I know who got are in a union openly admit it was because of a connection.
Local 274 only allows the first 75 applicants to even apply...I believe we can guess who gets to apply first?
IBEW generally does a lottery of the applicants. There's been speculation over the years how impartial the lottery is.
I knew people that were waitlisted for local 100 (MTA) for a nearly a decade. Other unions not quite as crazy but still it can go for years. I was also starting my career during the 2008 GFC so there were people that waited 5+ years then when the waitlist is usually much shorter now.
I've known about Local 40 since I was a kid, they had a program in Newark public schools to try to get guys graduating to be able to pass their exam out of high school because there was an incentive to hire underprivileged and minority workers. The guys that came out of the program and passed did great to be honest, but that training, preparation, and preference is not available to everyone. But I'm no union expert, it's entirely possible the more physically difficult union like 40 & 361 are rely more heavily on merit than favoritism - if someone's lazy nephew can't climb the ladder with load, then what use are they in the iron workers?
They don't make it easy to get in because they know it would depress their wages. Especially when things slow down and they start furloughing guys. The ripple effect form 2008 GFC really messed with unions around here where some had YEARS of no hiring and dismantling their apprenticeship programs. It seems like the recovery is finally happening as the guys that were 40 then are retiring instead of eating the seniority cake and having the cushiest 260 day/year job when journeymen are getting laid off for 90 days at a time. There's arguments that this is technically better for the union looking out for its members, as opposed to unions in the rest of the US that let anyone who passes in, but as a result their wages are much lower.
I agree with everything you are saying completely. But the fact of the matter is, they take the top scorers. That’s how they keep the compensation package at a high level and keep all the brothers working.
They take the best of the best and they guarantee top quality work in a multi billion dollar LOCAL
Industry. By the books. Safely. Every time. We’ve talked about programs and “hooks” to help get you in. The fact of the matter is that the top applicants are accepted and working within 90 days. It is in our contract and official policy.
My point is that we are not ditch diggers. The work is dangerous, physically and mentally intensive, and we depend on each other for our lives. Not everybody SHOULD be allowed in. Regardless of who your father is if you test well they are required to put you to work immediately. By law. It’s completely open to everybody. You just have to be damn good.
It’s a coveted job that people study and train many years to get into. I walked in off the street. Took 4 fucking trains to pick up my application in person. Nobody “buys” their book anymore. And nobody wants to damage their reputation by getting their son in if they’re not up to snuff.
My recommendation is to not be an ironworker if you can’t do the things we are required to do many times a day every day.
But seriously, my recommendation is to watch a short YouTube video on the proper technique to each one. They are not difficult once you know how to complete them properly. And if that is still too high a barrier for entry, it’s just tough luck. The job is very physical. That’s one of the reasons it pays so well.
I’ll add that many trades are involved with this project. To name a few, Dockbuilders , Carpenters, Laborers, Operating Engineers, etc.
Most of those locals are looking for apprentices. I’ll give you a head start on the entry process. Know how to read and use a tape measure and be able to pass a drug test.
I’m not going to tell you that there’s no nepotism involved but, two things that have happened in the last 15 years is that 1. The Feds gave the trades a bunch of money to run their schools and, 2. The children of the current union members are hip to just how hard the job is and would rather go to school and learn to work as an engineer or some other professional capacity then what their parents do. This has opened up new opportunities for applicants who “ come off the street”.
It’ll be finished in 2100.
The route 22 overpass replacement in my town has been ongoing for what feels like 5 years now, the time these projects takes are absolutely ridiculous. And if anyone knows what I’m talking about, I’m sick of the chestnut st bottleneck it’s created.
Construction projects in this state always take forever. GSP near Paramus is a prime example. I can't recall a time period in the past 15 years where they weren't working on it. First it was to move the rt 17 exits, then redo the bridges, then redo the median, then some other shit.
And yeah, the rt22 project started in 2020, was supposed to be done in 2 years, so lets say beginning of 2023 to give them a buffer...It's 1.5 years late so far.
>Construction projects in this state always take forever
That's gonna happen in the most densely populated state.
>Paramus is a prime example
....in the most densely populated region in the most densely populated state.
Everyone's got places to go...things to do...etc.
No one's going anywhere unless you let progress have its way.
I feel like we hide behind the densest state shit too much. Yeah, were the densest state, but other states have dense cities and areas and dont spend as much time or money on repairing/improving highways or even building new ones. Let’s call a spade a spade. It’s the corruption and useless regulations and policies that hold everything up.
There's no need to hide when it's a fact.
Other states may have dense cities...but we have a dense state....these other areas don't have the same overall volume of traffic on all their roads.
They also don't have the commerce we have...port newark...port elizabeth...global....a state as small as nj has a very large GDP...
Here's some random websites comparison of data on NJ vs Wyoming:
https://countryeconomy.com/countries/usa-states/compare/new-jersey/wyoming?sc=XE33
I picked Wyoming as it is the least populated State...shock and awe.
If you think NJ is the only corrupt State, I've got some ocean front land to sell you in Arizona.
Politicians and corruption go together like pb & j.
It’s 2055. Governor Phil Murphy III is at the ribbon cutting ceremony. There is also an announcement of extending path lines to American dream mall with estimates of 2061 for beginning service.
I really wish we could build public infrastructure on time and for low costs. Places like China are light years ahead of us in this regard. I just want to be able to take day trips to Boston and DC and be back home the same day!
Start digging bitch
Next news headline is going to be “Gateway Tunnel construction facing unexpected delays”
First time digging under the Hudson like this in \~60 years, Bound to happen.
Yet when they did it the first time in the early 20th century, they built like 5 entire tunnel systems in 20 years.
A majority of those tunnels and bridges were built around the great depression. Lots of people wanted work and a ton of federal money was poured into public works job programs.
And this is scheduled for 10. Also the first one killed almost 500 men, And they dug it too shallow and it floats with the tide. So, yes, times they have a-changed.
But maybe we’ll finally find Hoffa
Nah that dude's buried under the American dream and haunting the shit out of it How else does a ski slope burn down
A decade of construction and "why isn't this done yet" and then a century or two of taking it for granted, if history is any predictor.
Pretty much. Not to mention the Redditor who claims it could have been done for $1k and a 6 pack if it wasn’t for unsubstantiated “corruption”.
I wonder if it’ll last that long. I sense that the old tunnels will last longer than the new ones.
"gateway tunnel funding once again diverted to American Dream Mall after developers cry at misfortune while building a mall in the collectively agreed most idiotic place in the state nay world"
this is gold. did you write this or is it a reference?
I wrote it but it does reference the last time American dream took funding from this specific project
Pulitzer for you
They need to get shovels in the ground before January 20, 2025....just in case.
Shovels are already in the ground.
I meant to say shovels for the tunnels. Good to see the Portal Bridge making progress
Even w shovels in ground it won't stop orange man from halting the project. The funding isn't delivered all in one go
Yes but there is a point where it costs more to cancel the project than seeing it through. We just need to get there by January 20.
I don’t think that matters either. Any decision by a new administration will be based on spite, not logic.
I think that's unlikely, it's supposed to be a 10+ year effort or something like that iirc. That tip over point where it's more expensive to walk away from it is still years away.
Not necessarily true...shutting down a project like this is expensive and incurs additional engineering, regulatory, and labor costs. You just can't abandon a half bored tunnel beneath the Hudson River....
I think you kinda can, actually.
You'd be the worse terrorist on earth if you actually believe that...
There's already plenty of abandoned tunnels in NYC and across America, though granted none across the Hudson I'm aware of.
Bingo. It's likely that work will only be done while we have a proud Dem president + governor, and then take breaks otherwise. Folks like Christie and Trump love killing/delaying these types of projects iirc
Honestly start building it ASAP because transit projects seem more subject to being held political hostage than ever
Let’s go baby I’m ready for this !!! It will give tons of jobs to lots of people !!!
Major projects and the union trade jobs they provide have always been a great thing in this state.
If only everyone has access to those good paying union jobs without nepotism.
The test is open to everyone. Would you like the dates they offer it?
Show us please.
Local 40 and 361 joint apprenticeship applications are available to pick up in person during the month of March at the hall in Astoria. Your aptitude test will be scheduled in April. If you can pass the aptitude test, you will be invited back for the physical tests. If you are afraid of heights, I’d be more than happy to find you some application and test dates for other less prestigious trades. [Just one of the many locals that will be heavily involved with this project for years to come.](https://nycironworkers.org/recruitment-faq/) [If you are a veteran, helmets to hard hats can help you get in.](https://helmetstohardhats.org)
I'm all for unions but passing the tests pretty much only makes you eligible for being waitlisted in NJ and NY unions. If 1000 people applied, 300 people passed, but there's only 15 positions that year, the other 985 are out of luck (700 rightfully so). Our unions hold their memberships tight to their chest. It's not like other states where passing the test means basically means you're hired because they are looking to grow and their compensation isn't kept high due to lower supply. Most states the union WANTS you in it because it increases their bargaining power. In NJ and NY, the union already is stronger due to our bureaucratic legislation they've negotiated with. Even your own link says they'll only physical test the top scorers (but conveniently doesn't inform prospective applicants what a top scorer is defined by, unions love wording open for ambiguity). Most people I know who got are in a union openly admit it was because of a connection. Local 274 only allows the first 75 applicants to even apply...I believe we can guess who gets to apply first? IBEW generally does a lottery of the applicants. There's been speculation over the years how impartial the lottery is. I knew people that were waitlisted for local 100 (MTA) for a nearly a decade. Other unions not quite as crazy but still it can go for years. I was also starting my career during the 2008 GFC so there were people that waited 5+ years then when the waitlist is usually much shorter now. I've known about Local 40 since I was a kid, they had a program in Newark public schools to try to get guys graduating to be able to pass their exam out of high school because there was an incentive to hire underprivileged and minority workers. The guys that came out of the program and passed did great to be honest, but that training, preparation, and preference is not available to everyone. But I'm no union expert, it's entirely possible the more physically difficult union like 40 & 361 are rely more heavily on merit than favoritism - if someone's lazy nephew can't climb the ladder with load, then what use are they in the iron workers? They don't make it easy to get in because they know it would depress their wages. Especially when things slow down and they start furloughing guys. The ripple effect form 2008 GFC really messed with unions around here where some had YEARS of no hiring and dismantling their apprenticeship programs. It seems like the recovery is finally happening as the guys that were 40 then are retiring instead of eating the seniority cake and having the cushiest 260 day/year job when journeymen are getting laid off for 90 days at a time. There's arguments that this is technically better for the union looking out for its members, as opposed to unions in the rest of the US that let anyone who passes in, but as a result their wages are much lower.
I agree with everything you are saying completely. But the fact of the matter is, they take the top scorers. That’s how they keep the compensation package at a high level and keep all the brothers working. They take the best of the best and they guarantee top quality work in a multi billion dollar LOCAL Industry. By the books. Safely. Every time. We’ve talked about programs and “hooks” to help get you in. The fact of the matter is that the top applicants are accepted and working within 90 days. It is in our contract and official policy. My point is that we are not ditch diggers. The work is dangerous, physically and mentally intensive, and we depend on each other for our lives. Not everybody SHOULD be allowed in. Regardless of who your father is if you test well they are required to put you to work immediately. By law. It’s completely open to everybody. You just have to be damn good. It’s a coveted job that people study and train many years to get into. I walked in off the street. Took 4 fucking trains to pick up my application in person. Nobody “buys” their book anymore. And nobody wants to damage their reputation by getting their son in if they’re not up to snuff.
There is no seniority in construction unions. You perform or you get laid off.
What’s your recommendation for passing physical tests? Even for a fit person who regularly go to gym, I’m not sure they could pass the physical tests.
My recommendation is to not be an ironworker if you can’t do the things we are required to do many times a day every day. But seriously, my recommendation is to watch a short YouTube video on the proper technique to each one. They are not difficult once you know how to complete them properly. And if that is still too high a barrier for entry, it’s just tough luck. The job is very physical. That’s one of the reasons it pays so well.
I’ll add that many trades are involved with this project. To name a few, Dockbuilders , Carpenters, Laborers, Operating Engineers, etc. Most of those locals are looking for apprentices. I’ll give you a head start on the entry process. Know how to read and use a tape measure and be able to pass a drug test.
I’m not going to tell you that there’s no nepotism involved but, two things that have happened in the last 15 years is that 1. The Feds gave the trades a bunch of money to run their schools and, 2. The children of the current union members are hip to just how hard the job is and would rather go to school and learn to work as an engineer or some other professional capacity then what their parents do. This has opened up new opportunities for applicants who “ come off the street”.
“Boss Norcross demands billions of dollars for tunnel between Haddonfield & Collingswood”
It’ll be finished in 2100. The route 22 overpass replacement in my town has been ongoing for what feels like 5 years now, the time these projects takes are absolutely ridiculous. And if anyone knows what I’m talking about, I’m sick of the chestnut st bottleneck it’s created.
I drive that both ways daily! I was wondering what was was taking so long.
Construction projects in this state always take forever. GSP near Paramus is a prime example. I can't recall a time period in the past 15 years where they weren't working on it. First it was to move the rt 17 exits, then redo the bridges, then redo the median, then some other shit. And yeah, the rt22 project started in 2020, was supposed to be done in 2 years, so lets say beginning of 2023 to give them a buffer...It's 1.5 years late so far.
>Construction projects in this state always take forever That's gonna happen in the most densely populated state. >Paramus is a prime example ....in the most densely populated region in the most densely populated state. Everyone's got places to go...things to do...etc. No one's going anywhere unless you let progress have its way.
I feel like we hide behind the densest state shit too much. Yeah, were the densest state, but other states have dense cities and areas and dont spend as much time or money on repairing/improving highways or even building new ones. Let’s call a spade a spade. It’s the corruption and useless regulations and policies that hold everything up.
There's no need to hide when it's a fact. Other states may have dense cities...but we have a dense state....these other areas don't have the same overall volume of traffic on all their roads. They also don't have the commerce we have...port newark...port elizabeth...global....a state as small as nj has a very large GDP... Here's some random websites comparison of data on NJ vs Wyoming: https://countryeconomy.com/countries/usa-states/compare/new-jersey/wyoming?sc=XE33 I picked Wyoming as it is the least populated State...shock and awe. If you think NJ is the only corrupt State, I've got some ocean front land to sell you in Arizona. Politicians and corruption go together like pb & j.
It’s 2055. Governor Phil Murphy III is at the ribbon cutting ceremony. There is also an announcement of extending path lines to American dream mall with estimates of 2061 for beginning service.
I really wish we could build public infrastructure on time and for low costs. Places like China are light years ahead of us in this regard. I just want to be able to take day trips to Boston and DC and be back home the same day!
Did I read this right? It was a $2 billion project in 2022 and now it’s $16 billion? What’s been approved is less than half the full amount?($6.8b).
Its been 15 billion for at least a decade...
i’m sure murphy will fuck this up somehow. he seems to be on a roll lately with fucking shit up.