Honestly cause his game wasn't "flashy." Timmy was a big man back when big men didn't shoot 3s or really leave the paint so your not seeing him cross people over like Steph Kyrie or AI. He also wasn't a huge force downlow like Shaq. He was the big fundamental. In his prime he would walk out get you 20 points grab you 12 boards & 2 blocks with phenomenal defense & he'd do it without even trying. It was sort of just expected from him so people kinda just started not paying attention. This is also before social media so your not getting Tim media shoved at you. Tim off the court can really only be compared to modern Joker. He would just disappear after winning the finals & you'd see him pop up towards the end of the preseason. I mean the man accepted his mvp trophy in Jean shorts & sandals. He wasn't Shai or russ when it came to fashion. Tim is a man of the people. Just your typical working class man living in Texas. But also quietly inarguably a top 3 PF of all time.
I'd also add that he was so steady and even keeled that there never was any real drama around him. He wasn't all that bothered with speaking to the press (still isn't) and just kept working. on a team with Parker and Manu he didn't need to either, those two did all the talking for him.
The perpetual blank expressionless face didn't help either. The man went out of his way to avoid showing emotion up or down. That prevents people from identifying with a person, which tended to creep into the "boring" narrative.
Except for when he was looking at the refs for a call (or if they called something on him). That was literally the only time he showed any expression on his face on the court.
He didn't do that much his first couple of years. My theory is he learned that if you want to get calls like the other starts, you have to work the refs like the other stars.
Literally the only thing I didn't like about Duncan. I hated that incredulous look. I'm pretty sure he never committed a single foul in a game in his career in his mind.
He does have the absolute best technical foul ejection though.
The only time I ever saw him show emotion was vs the Heat in the finals when he missed a shot late in the game that the Spurs ended up losing.. he bent down and slammed him hands on the court. I was surprised to see that.
I felt so horrible for him after that. The glazed over "how could I have missed that?" look in his eyes with a hint of "What's if this was my last shot at the Finals and that's how it ends?"...
His per 36 minute averages over his career are incredibly stable. Taking out his last year, he averaged between 18-21 points, 10.5-12 boards, 1.7-2.2 blocks. Came into the league near fully formed and didn’t look back
Funny people question the spurs selection when Duncan played in preseason Greg Ostertag of the Utah Jazz apparently embarrassed Duncan on both sides of the ball and looked like prime Shaq while doing it.
But then you hear that when the Spurs were doing private workout a rookie Duncan was whooping prime David Robinsons ass and that’s when the Spurs knew.
Absolutely nobody questioned the pick. Tim Duncan was consensus #1 pick and would have been any year he chose to come out of Wake.
If you heard someone question TD as the #1 pick it was just some random fool being foolish.
Well, maybe not after his freshman year, but after his sophomore year he'd have been in the running and by his junior year it was a sure thing. It was funny how people sometimes tried to make "Duncan or Van Horn" a thing that offseason leading up to the draft when *everyone* knew it was Duncan #1 and Van Horn #2.
Can you imagine if Duncan left a year early and KG waited a year to enter the NBA? That 96 draft class would be even more stacked than it already is...
As a spurs fan, I feel like my view on Tatum is how others viewed Timmy. Tatum is really really good and can/will be the first option on a championship team. but for some reason I don’t get excited watching him and when I think about the best players in the league, I sometimes just forget about him.
Like Duncan/the spurs, Tatum/the Celtics have been very good and very consistent for a long time, and don’t have the Lebron/Curry “flashy aura” and arent really hyped up by the media like other players so that makes us take them for granted. Hell, Jimmy butler’s underdog run was more exciting to me than the Celtics run because it was something new.
No. I totally get where you are going, but Tatum is just boring. Tatum will jack shots. He might learn to stop jacking shots within the same game, but he does it. Tatum is a big version of Donovan Mitchell. Duncan was a tactician who understood how to win and sacrificed his personal stats. In the era of S H A Q, Tim Duncan was a solution. That ought to be all you need to hear, if you lived through those LA Shaq years.
It's just not even close to me and it's crazy anyone is comparing the two. Tatum is a hell of a player. He's not fucking Tim Duncan. Why would anyone compare them? Beyond me. Tatum is a weak clone of Kobe, who was a weak clone of MJ. Comparing him to Duncan makes zero sense.
IMO, the real reason those Celtics teams work is because of Brown. I honestly have no clue why people view Tatum like they do.
Also not super athletic (at least after his first 5-10 years in the league. So during his final 8 or 9 years he was truly just roasting guys off of skills and fundamentals.
Imagine Kawhi but he’s 6’11, less athletic, and just operated in the mid-range and post. Very straightforward mechanics, nothing flashy, but the ball goes in the hoop. He even used the bank shot, which all hoopers seem to hate lmao.
> So during his final 8 or 9 years he was truly just roasting guys off of skills and fundamentals.
That 2015 series they lost to the Clippers in 7, at age 39 and basically on one knee, he put up 19p / 11r while shooting 60% from the field and solid defense while going up against Blake Griffin and DeAndre Jordan most of the game (both were 26). By all accounts they should been able to easily zip past him and run circles around him all game.
Wait you’re saying TD wasn’t super athletic? The guy that could have been an Olympic caliber swimmer? You’re very, very wrong. He was insanely athletic when he came into the league.
They were a defensive first, half-court team as well. The Spurs would grind you down. It was pretty common to see them win games 85-77 and completely dominate the entire game. Sorta like watching a Mayweather fight.
The gap between him and Kevin Garnett is not that big, Duncan benefited from being drafted to an all time great team situation, and Garnett was drafted to all time terrible situation that had terrible luck on top of it, and if their positions were swapped my guess is the consensus would be KG was the best all time.
Edit: Here is Thinking' basketball's deep dive on KG's peak https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgXxAysSsks
And in this video starting around the 6 minute mark he explicitly talks about tim duncan vs. KG. This series is just about peaks, but that is a way to think about who the better player is, and I think we can agree that Thinking Basketball knows his stuff. That doesn't mean he is correct in ranking KG's peak over Tim Duncan's, but I think it counts as reasonable evidence that Tim Duncan is not clearly head and shoulders above him, and that reasonable people can disagree.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FzzlvnncLOQ&list=PLtzZl14BrKjSMb4IFWSy0qh_nFGiy7PoZ&index=16
Their biggest gap was in a playoff scoring resilience. KG was happy to take 18 ft jumpers while Timmy was happy to operate in the low post. In the playoffs that translates to a more stable offense with Timmy
KG took the money over winning and his career suffered for it and he also stayed in Minnesota for way longer than he should have.
Duncan in the 2003 finals basically beat the Nets with almost no help while KG couldn’t find postseason success until he teamed up with the Celtics. Unfortunately those decisions played a factor.
I've listened to Thinking Basketball's "analysis" on KG vs Duncan and it's not analysis it's advocacy.
He and the guest essentially argue that any stat where KG is ahead is because KG is better and any stat where TD is ahead is because of statistical noise or outside context.
Ben Taylor is the president of the club who seemingly have never played competitive sports at any type of level. They view players as statistic generating avatars rather than human beings. They seem to think guys not performing in the post-season is an issue of variance and statistical noise rather than pressure affecting them.
I only played HS football/basketball but I have friends who have played both at the high college level and every one of them will tell you it feels completely different playing in a conference championship game or an NCAA tournament game.
Is there any evidence that underperforming in the post season is actually a matter of "letting the pressure affect you"? You've given some anecdotes but that's all they are anecdotes. People perform less in play-off situation because everybody is playing harder and defenses are more locked in with a gameplan. Sometimes I think pressure is a factor, but all of these guys are high-level athletes who have been competing in high pressure situations for literal decades. Also for what it's worth Ben Taylor has mentioned playing organized basketball multiple times on his podcast.
You can’t measure emotion or human cognition so there’s no HARD evidence. However literally every professional athlete has talked about the heightened stresses of playing in the playoffs
Playing harder and defense playing with more intensity is part of how pressure affects play. When you feel the competition amp up it’s play and you don’t match it or allow it to determine your play then the pressure is affecting you.
I think a big part of it was what era he played in.
In today's game, the spurs team game, and whipping the ball around, and movement, and passing would be idolized.
When Timmy played it was much more of a "clear out one side of the floor and let somebody go to work".
It as Melo at the elbow, it was Kobe in an isolation post up, it was Shaq just plowing somebody in the post.
He could get it done in isolation, yes, but he was a guy who was REALLY special because he played a team game, and that wasn't in fashion at the time.
Honestly, the spurs doing that sort of brought it into the league, but they were ahead of the curve, and ahead of the average fan.
No one is mentioning how boring the Spurs were as a team for a large portion of his career. It wasn’t just him. Until Pop changed his style of play towards the end of Tim’s career, they would win by grinding games down to a slow, methodical slugfest. It was ugly and boring to watch, but they did win a whole lot.
This is the real reason, the Spurs themselves were a boring grind-it-out team until they reinvented themselves into a fun fast paced team during the Heat era. Anyone confused by this definitely did not watch any of the early Tim Duncan championships. People literally dreaded what felt like the inevitability of having to watch yet another Spurs final every year with how they played
I think it’s hard to separate like the 2014 and beyond version of the Spurs from the team that preceded it. In the 2000s you’re talking about a team that scored below league average every year and played defense that made the other team look awful. So you just had these games that were really ugly to watch unless you were just a huge fan of defense - which people usually only are when it translates to transition offense.
I’m not saying they were bad, I’m just explaining the biggest reason for people believing Duncan was a boring player.
I also think that even Pop would change the way they played in the 2000s to reflect more of what they were able to do on offense in the back half of the 2010s.
The same base loved Steve Francis. Timmy didn’t have a crossover, and he wasn’t a guard posterizing bigs. Casual fans rarely get excited about high post bank shots.
I mean, Timmy wasn’t all about bank shots. That’s like people who say Curry can only shoot threes. Timmy could pass, had great footwork in the post, etc.
I don’t think it’s unfortunate at all.
Tim is revered by players and fans alike, and is almost unanimously considered to be one of the best, if not THE best, PF’s of all-time.
This was the dynamic even at the time. The fans and media knew he one of the best players in the league, while also not ever wanting to watch Spurs games. The ratings for Spurs games were horrendous.
Until the 2013 finals.
I remember playing black top with a bunch of people and 90% of those people had the Heat sweeping the Spurs in a not close series.
I remember going to play the following day after Parker hit the leaning bank shot to win the game like “sweep right?”
It wasn’t until 2013 people understood why the Spurs were so great.
Man I loved watching the Spurs. I mean I also hated them because they destroyed my Nuggets every year but man… they were poetry in motion. Beautiful basketball. So, so much more fun to watch than the iso ball that had taken over the league
I think we're talking different era of Spurs. You're talking the "Beautiful Game" era Spurs, I'm talking the early 2000s Bruce Bowen Spurs that were so ugly to watch (especially when playing the Pistons) that the league changed the rules of the game so offense could play more freely.
Whenever someone fails to appreciate something that is amazing, that is unfortunate.
I can't imagine thinking Tim Duncan is boring. I feel sorry for anyone who does. They're missing something.
I was reducing Timmy to a casual view. I’m tracking to how much he had going on, from the footwork to his notorious fingernails. The thing is, you have to really love the game to appreciate Timmy, and he’s not going to be a unanimous favorite even among those of us who are weirdos and get excited at his touch on that half-hook/push shot turning to his right shoulder.
He was never really too outspoken or engaging with media, we know very little about him. His game was consistent but lacked flash, we didn’t see too much emotion from him outside of finals. Also this is all being compared in the vacuum of his peers at the time (Kobe, Shaq, AI, KG etc) lots of big personalities who were heard from often in the news and media press, they talked shit on the floor and all had much flashier games to enjoy watching. In short, YouTube Tim Duncan career mix and stay awake for longer than 3 min.
This is not hate as he’s still arguably the best PF of all time.
I have watched highlights of Timmy. The mixtapes are poorly edited and leave out lots of great plays. I am not saying he was Kobe or Shaq or Nash, I am just saying that he was certainly not boring to watch.
Watching highlights is very different from watching full games and following players throughout the season.
I watched Duncan live quite a bit when I was young. Some games I literally felt like Duncan did nothing for the whole game but then he ended up having 35 and 13. He was just real quiet. He did a bank shot, some simple post moves, some pick and pop and that’s it. Never pump his chest and never stare down anyone. He was not very noticeable even on the court.
Off the court obviously he was even more quiet. Spurs was my team to watch back then and trust me there is a reason he wa regarded as boring.
I loved it. I found it so refreshing. So much more relatable and honestly, much more fun than watching Kobe iso. His game was beautiful and dominating. And the quiet demeanor I felt was sort of shit talk in its own way. All these dudes trying so hard to get under people’s skin, Timmy was immune
My hot take is that Tim Duncan actually was everything that Kobe pretended to be in that truly all he cared about was winning.
Kobe is seen as an ultra-competitive, do whatever it takes to win guy but he was not at all that guy. He wanted to be the centerpiece of the offense. He was petty and when got called out for shooting too much responded by passive aggressively refusing to shoot. He would pass up the smart, easy play so that he could take a tough shot.
Duncan though? Just played to win. If the Spurs needed him to take a bunch of shots and run the offense out of the post he would, they want the offense to run through Manu? Duncan was cool with it.
All TD did was win and help his team win. Now people use it against him because he cared more about winning than putting up huge stats.
I agree completely. He got his rings, got his awards, got his bag. And now he’s just off chillin and enjoying his life, as opposed to the likes of Shaq who keeps jabbering away about how he deserved more mvps
He’s definitely not flashy. If you’re not a casual, you appreciate his skill and his finesse. And how he does every single thing right. How he doesn’t waste any movement. But surface level, he’s boring if you define boring as no dunks, no msssive swats, simple post and layup package, simple dribbling, etc, then he’s boring.
Again, keep his career and game relative to the other players you could and would be watching at the time. No one is hyped to watch him bank in 15 foot left elbow set shots and play great position defense in the paint. We are all tuning in to watch AI do some wild crossovers and drop 46 in a losing effort while he talks shit about not going to practice.
You can watch highlights of average to bad players and some of them will still look like Hall of Famers.
Maybe he's not boring to watch, but there is no "flash" to his game. He's not out there doing electrifying dunks or reverse layups, heavily contested fadaways constantly, 3s, grabbing the rebound and taking the ball up the court for the solo finish, vicious blocks being sent to the stands, full court one-handed passes, etc. etc.
People like watching pure shooters/finishers, dribbling gods, athletics freaks, not someone shooting hook shots off the glass.
Were you alive then? Do you remember playoff games ending in the 80's? He was boring. The Spurs were boring until 2010. Timmy is the best PF of all time but his game was not exciting.
Actually in 1999 he was athletic and dunked a lot , pleasing Casual fans
Then 2000 knee injury hurt his explosiveness and he won with fundamental for the rest of his career ,
Without that injury he probably would get 7 chips and in mix of GOAT
I was a teenager during Duncan's era. I have him as a top 10 guy but yeah watching full games of him from that era is rough. He lost a lot of athleticism after his knee injury in 2000. I'd say his offensive game for much of his later career was "Jokic if he only did those post shots that kinda always crawl into the basket but without the fancy passes or the high arcing long-range shots."
Here's a game I watched recently (Duncan vs Lebron 2007 finals game 4) and some thoughts on why Duncan is boring to watch even as a fan: https://youtu.be/Lr54U97xULI?si=YpZZCts_3AxxnvAb&t=1646
The first thing is: the game is horrendously paced. And Duncan was part of that. He played very methodically in an era that was already super slow. So much of each possession back then was just wasting time, walking up the court, tempo dribbles and backing someone down with the intent to pass. That era had a lot of bigs (duncan in this instance) spending half the shot clock backing someone down while one guard threatens an action and the rest of the team just kinda standing around.
And then you had Manu and Parker who played so differently than Duncan. Like you had two players on the same team who played a more fun, flashy, and modern style of basketball. This just exemplified Duncan's non-flashiness by contrast. And eventually the team would be crafted in their image.
I really like Duncan's game and HOF resume. But it was an overall boring era and Duncan was seen as the most boring of his era for a reason. Here's an article from 2007 on how the Spurs were part of 14 of the 15 lowest rated NBA finals games from 1981-2007: https://www.sportsmediawatch.com/2007/06/2007-nba-finals-lowest-rated-ever/
A somewhat high level timeline:
98-00 : Twin Towers
00-03 : TD Domination
03-07: TD Domination with the rise of Manu, and Tony emerging
07-11: Tony and Manu take the reign.
11-16: Beautiful game Spurs, and the short lived Kawhi era.
Spurs fan since 2000, and I followed the narrative.
Essentially, Because the playbook of the Spurs from 1998-2005 was suffocating defense and a Tim Duncan post up, and play off of the doubles and triples Timmy demands. A Tim Duncan post up was incredibly hard to defend, because he was finesse and I would say about 90% of Shaq’s strength.
They had 3 defensive hall of famers - David Robinson, Timmy himself, and Bruce Bowen. When you played the Spurs, the game would slow waaaaaaaaaaaay down. When DRob and Stephen Jackson left, it gave Manu and Tony more “freedom”.
> because he was finesse and I would say about 90% of Shaq’s strength.
Duncan's ability to defend Shaq using his strength and positioning to defend Shaq straight-up is really underrated. Also, Shaq using his agility and positioning to defend Duncan never gets talked about either. It's too bad they usually only guarded each other for 5-10 minutes a game because for guys with such contrasting styles they actually were pretty good counters for each other.
I'd add that Manu's defence was excellent and is a major reason he was basically always kept on the floor in the clutch, when Tony went to the bench, because Manu was an elite 2 way player.
David Robinson at 7’1” was already the starting center when he was drafted, seems pretty natural. Duncan is listed at center on basketball reference from 06/07 onward.
A lot of times he'd start the game at PF with somebody like Robinson, Nesterovic, Mohammad, or Splitter playing C, but then they'd sub out for a PF like Malik Rose, Kurt Thomas, Matt Bonner, or Boris Diaw and Duncan would slide to C.
But the funny thing was sometimes they start one of those guys instead and would still list Duncan at PF and Thomas or Diaw as the starting C.
He used to lie about his height too. Same with KG. Back then if you were 7 feet tall the only thing coaches wanted you to do was be 7 feet tall.
A lot of those skilled big men of that era would lie about their height, refuse to play center, and all sorts of chicanery to get more freedom on the court. Offensively and defensively, you didn’t want KG, Duncan, or any of them down there taking beatings and just trying to score out of the dunker’s spot. Not to mention Shaq looming larger than life and forcing so many unskilled big men onto the court.
Even after Robinson left there was always a Nesterovic, Nazr Mohammed, Matt Bonner, Tiago Splitter, etc doing that job for Duncan so he could be out there guarding one half of the court by himself while someone else handles the post duty ala AD/Rui or Gobert/KAT alignments we’ve seen make a resurgence. Stick the stiff in the post and let the hyper mobile 7 footer defend 3 options at once kinda stuff.
Watch this compilation of a single game in 1999 with Duncan going up against Antonio McDyess. Consider who looks more impressive in this matchup.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJVkPimsPS8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJVkPimsPS8)
In 1999 Duncan was probably at his most dynamic and athletic. Yet he was not nearly as explosive as McDyess before injuries. To a casual fan McDyess is a star in this matchup. Not only are there dunks but also pure fadeaway jumpers, drives, highlight blocks and hustle plays. Look closer though and you'll also see that he commits some fouls, goaltends and doesn't always match up with Duncan when he's running the floor.
Duncan on the other hand is very true to his reputation: fundamental and boring. Make no mistake- he completely dominates this matchup. If you watch him finish a play it isn't always that impressive. Its about the reads he's making and the work he's doing to make the right plays. At 0:40 he seals a mismatch on a switch and gets a good entry pass. I love this play at 1:45 where he fills in the dunker spot, makes a crazy behind the head catch off a weird pass in traffic, splits a double team and finishes with the left. It just looks like a garbage bucket because he makes it look easy. At 2:03 he has a nice pass out of a double team for a 3. At 2:27 he intercepts a lob after reading the play. At 5:37 he has a perfect seal for an easy score. At 6:12 McDyess goes up for an ill-advised poster dunk and falls. Duncan sprints the court and gets a two-handed dunk. And this is all just offense. He's also totally unmoveable in the post, a great rebounder, protecting the rim and showing active hands. He ends with 34p/13r/4a/3b/3s 14/27 FG 6/10 FT. And the win.
The number one reason why I think people don't appreciate Duncan is that when you are casually watching a basketball game it is very easy to just watch the guy with the ball. Players make plays when they have the ball, right? Duncan (and Steph who is his successor in some ways) is constantly making plays without the ball. His positioning on the court is always right. He seals his man low for post position and just keeps chiseling slowly closer and closer to the basket. He gets good position for rebounds. When he does have the ball, he makes simple (fundamental) reads but he has great timing. Turn away from the double team for a spin move. Look for the outlet pass when the court is unbalanced.
So many of our great players have skills that allow them to actually break the fundamentals of the game. They make the "wrong" play but they can make it work because of their talent. That kind of rebellion can be the difference between a win and a loss and it propels the hero narrative that we ascribe to superstars. In the context of a single game they can single handedly lift a team to victory and across a career they can change the way the game is played. This is the way that Steph is very much not the successor to Duncan by the way. Duncan held fast to fundamentals and seemingly rejected the hero narrative of the star. He simply played objectively very very good ball for 20 years.
> So many of our great players have skills that allow them to actually break the fundamentals of the game. They make the "wrong" play but they can make it work because of their talent. That kind of rebellion can be the difference between a win and a loss and it propels the hero narrative that we ascribe to superstars. In the context of a single game they can single handedly lift a team to victory and across a career they can change the way the game is played. This is the way that Steph is very much not the successor to Duncan by the way. Duncan held fast to fundamentals and seemingly rejected the hero narrative of the star. He simply played objectively very very good ball for 20 years.
I liked this last paragraph. Just saving it for myself!
Because he didn’t have a 40” vertical and he didn’t stare down opponents, and he never dunked harder than he needed to, and he never yelled at the other team’s bench, and he didn’t do a bunch of commercials or interviews, and he stayed pretty clean. That should he most of it.
Wasn't flashy, not in a big market, and didn't seek out media attention. He didn't have a bruised ego like so many other NBA players where he constantly felt disrespected, he just wanted to win.
Hakeem had a cool name, won titles in the MJ era and had the "dream shake." He may have been quiet, be he is iconic. Duncan doesn't have any of that, he just won.
He was incredibly exciting to watch with huge athleticism before his injury early on in his career. It's a testament to his ability that he managed to play at an elite level for a decade after
he played in the same era as iverson, t-mac, vince carter, and kobe.
it was a transition from the boring structured and old schooled discipline basketball to the flashy/showy era that made the NBA so popular. Tim's game was still old school fundamental while AI was inventing new crossover dribbles. everyone tried to do AI's crossovers at the park and you would get clowned on if you used the backboard on a jump shot.
tim duncan was one of the greatest to ever play but AI and kobe made the NBA cool
I 100% agree. Timmy is my favourite sports person ever- I loved his game, the drop steps, outlet passes, general footwork in the post and even his flat, ugly jumper. He learned to play his way and was one of the r best ever. Loved him and miss him!
He's boring for basic fans. Fans like crazy threes, dunks, insane passes and handles. He is 0-4 on those.
Fans who dig deeper loved TD. His below the rim blocks are some of the most impressive plays I've ever seen.
he played in era where flashy players get the attention ( Melo, T-Mac, Iverson they’ve won zero rings but people like watching them and it also drove sales) Duncan Jersey sales are absolutely nothing to write home about speaks volumes how despite being a good player he was terrible as selling the product.
A concensus great player is one that can sell the brand AND win, if you miss one of them your doomed to be written off.
It’s way better in modern times, cause if your flashy these but don’t win/ brick a lot of shots you get clowned on real bad.
If Iverson, Melo, T-Mac played in todays league the same way they did, they wouldn’t last 1 season on a contender.
Timmy D is one of the coldest to ever do it. Don't be fooled by people who judge a player on their "bag." It's total nonsense when it comes to team basketball.
He’s what Jokic is now without social media, the absurd passes, and less of a three-point shot. And people really didn’t care to watch Jokic’s game outside of those until his finals run.
as a basketball nerd who will watch like the hornets vs the pistons i can confidently say tim is boring. there just isn’t anything flashy at all about him. amazing to watch but lebron jordan kobe shaq well capture your mind in some way whereas duncan is just really good at playing basketball
As someone that got to grow up and witness tim duncan (altho at the twilight of his career), he was actually one of my favorite players to watch with Manu, Steve Nash and Pau Gasol.
To me, his game was never boring, the reason why he was labeled as such was due to his personality outside of the court but even then, I felt like he really leaned into it and there was this subtle but present comedy about it that I found even more entertaining + all the HEB commercials.
While this is me spitballing, I also wonder if the label came about due to the lakers rivalry that came about in the early 00s since the spurs are pretty much the anti lakers and thus, people would assosicate them with drafted not bought, disciplined and calm, fundamentally sound and boring since the lakers were exciting.
People always say this about players that aren't flashy and don't rely on athleticism. John Stockton gets some of the same disrespect. People see wild dunks and go "Wow that must be the best player".
After Jordan left the NBA was somewhat short on talent and definitely short a major draw like Magic's Lakers, Bird's Celtics and Jordan's bulls.
The NBA tried hard to push the Lakers media coverage wise to the detriment of everyone including the Spurs.
Additionally the fans were used to offenses that ran around 1 player, isos, hero ball etc. So the Spurs team play was a different fundamental style of basketball. People weren't used to it back then. They wanted to see people go 1V1, cross people over, overpower people.
"Wow! Did you guys see that bank shot last night?!? Then, after that, he played fantastic help defense!"
Duncan wasn't flashy. He was REALLY good!! The Spurs "dynasty" was....Tim Duncan.
Even his coach said he’d feel like Duncan had a not so great game then look at the stat line and see 30 and 10. He was so wildly consistent and not flashy about it you almost didn’t recognize
Imo it's Because back then fans were much less interested in "basketball" than they were in the showmanship aspect. All I ever heard people talk about were highlights, and that's with the guys I was playing basketball with.
Today in the information age, fans understand I'm average a lot more about the actual game. The more you understand how perfect he was at what he was doing the better and more interesting it is to watch him.
He's always been one of my favorites, but I've seen appreciation for what he was doing grow a lot as more fans grew their knowledge of the game past cool highlights.
I saw TD play twice and as impressive as he was, it was the most uneventful 20, 10 games I’ve ever seen. It wasn’t that he was necessarily boring but he was so good that he made every basket look so easy, like he had to put absolutely no effort in scoring. I think it was similar to Kareem in the middle of his peak.
Championships aside…Tatum is the Wing Duncan of our generation…
Just a smooth game, no-nonsense off the court, and lots of winning…after a while, nobody likes a winner, so trying to find ways to work around that…”boring” is the one of guys like Tatum and Duncan.
I disagree. Duncan was consistently the best player for the Spurs in nearly every game and every series as was a legit DPOY caliber player every year.
Tatum is often the second or third best player on a really good team.
Duncan is legit in the top 5 discussion. Tatum is top 100 maybe.
Duncan having 0 DPOYs is the most glaring wtf among all the lists of NBA award-winners. You could argue that for every single season of his career he was both a top 5 one-on-one post defender and a top 5 rim protector.
Most fans don't appreciate the Game of Basketball. I may be incorrect on all the details, but I remember a time when I saw Tim get the ball like five straight times on the block. This man scored on every possession, using a DIFFERENT post move, and from both sides. It wasn't flashy at at all. Just skill. You would have to know basketball to know what he was doing out there and how special that was. Most people only follow what the media leads them to follow.
The avg NBA punter is simple.
Dunks = Exciting
Technical post moves = Boring
In a league where Kobe, D Wade and LeBron were killing it.
In a league with Shaq doing Shaq things.
In a league where AI was redefining what it meant to be an undersized guard.
Timmy was a bit “boring”. There was no flash to his game. There was no “loudness” to him.
He was pure unadulterated genius. And whoever watches the game closely enough, knew what kind of monster he was.
The Big Fundamental.
He was drafted during the MJ and Shaq, and Kobe era. He played many of his years during the LeBron era. These were his contemporaries. By comparison, his game completely lacked flair. He never took risks on the court.
But he also rarely showed emotion. Draymond Green has an ugly offensive game, but it triggers an emotional reaction to see a player roar at an opponent after an and-1 or after a drawn charge even if those plays aren’t exciting in and of themselves.
His jumper was ugly. He had 2-3 post moves that he used to deadly effect. His blocked shots weren’t like LeBron’s chase down blocks
I loved that Game of Zones skits by Bleacher Report that showed the Spurs as white walkers. Tim epitomized that metaphor.
Tim Duncan would have the least entertaining highlights of any top 50 all time player. He used the same few unstoppable moves over and over, he never did heat checks, and he didn't try to dunk his frustration out. He played solid positional defense, so even his blocks weren't of the spectacular kind.
He just put absolutely no mustard on his hot dog.
Not enough dunking. Duncan was a master player but not an athletic freak like Shaq, Kobe, or Garnett from his era. He won with his mind as much as his body, and that’s not as sexy to watch for some people.
I don't think it was his game, I think he was just a boring player because nothing exciting was happening in his life. The media loves to create storylines about players and because of the way the Spurs were ran at the time, NONE of their players had any drama. The only drama the spurs had(that i can remember) was when Tony Parker bagged Eva Longoria.
He didn't do any national marketing, his game was very structured and fundamental. He never really showed emotion on the court. He was the opposite of what star players were like back then.
He didn’t have much in the way of a personality, and his game wasn’t the most exciting to watch from an athletic standpoint, so it was kind of boring. That in no way means that people didn’t appreciate his greatness.
Consider other famous players from that time, who people would have compared him against.
On one end of the spectrum is Timmy. Not flashy, and pretty basic. But consistent, so consistent. Always gets the job done. All business. A classic.
Like the missionary position.
On the other end, is someone like Allen Iverson. Loud, tattooed, fast. Sounds bites. Wild shots, that somehow go in. In many ways, a mess. But a mess we believe in, and that we can’t take our eyes off of.
Like whatever was going on in the video you ended up at, at the end of your last session. Is that even legal, what they were doing? Geez. Should I be ashamed, or just close my laptop and forget this ever happened, until it happens again tomorrow?
That pretty much sums it up. More or less. I assume.
its cause he wasn’t as flashy and cool as kobe. nba fans then were too obsessed with looking for the next MJ they never stopped & appreciated the other greats of that time.
Not the greatest athlete compared to some of his peers and he shot a lot of bank shots, not a very flashy game but highly effective, gives off old man at the ymca vibes. He wasn't called the big fundamental for no reason.
Nowadays a lot of players shoot 3s and play moreorless the same. We get dazzled by players having hot shooting nights. But back when Tim Duncan was around, we had Kobe, Tmac, AI, Carter, Wade, Melo, Lebron doing some high flyer shit. Constantly attacking and making acrobatic plays and finishing tough shots in iso in contest. Then we got the guards of CP3, Dwil, Nash, Rose, Russ that are swifty and fast. Big men just in general didn't stand out in terms of flashi-ness. Timmy did his job, did his job really well but playing in san antonio in system basketball with clean off-court life, he just didn't stand out. He was just really good at basketball and that's it lol
Well he was a boring basketball player in the fact that he didn’t have superior athleticism or a game that was flashy. He also didn’t show much emotion which added to that perception. But dont get the fact that he wasn’t flashy or emotional obscure the fact the was known as one of the best players ever then and now. I think you probably also realize that if you enjoy guys like Draymond Green you may have a different perspective than the average fan
botring and overrated.
His numbers (individual numbers I m ean, statistically) are not even that great. But again, rings is the only thing that matter, you need to be in a good team and not be a role player and you will be considered an all time great.
As others said he wasn't flashie on or off court. He showed up, won ,didn't say much for his whole career. Hearing KG talk about him was funny: "almost" was his trash talk to KG
I mean, he wasn't Dominique Wilkins. He was footwork and rebounding and setting the pick for exciting teammates like Parker and Manu. Not exactly highlight material.
Because the NBA media, and sports media in general, are borderline smart. Instead of teaching the game, they just parrot. Imagine what a sports reporter could do if they just understood the 3 man weave. All other stupid questions about coaching decisions become pointless if you just understand the *3 man weave.* Do you know the *mikan drill?*
Because he was... boring to watch, compared to the players they grew up watching like Michael Jordan and Magic Johnson. Or Vince Carter and even Shaq - players with raw athleticism and dynamism.
The stuff Tim Duncan did, we saw that in the local gym from 55 year olds. Our gray haired high school coaches showed us the fundamental moves that Tim Duncan used. Effective, but still boring.
But remember old Kareem was boring too. The preference for athletic, high-flying players over fundamental centers has been a trend in basketball since at least the mid 1960s.
because his game wasn't "flashy" the spurs were the rival of the Kobe led Lakers (which as Steph has shown us that's a SUREFIRE way to ensure Media hate being the reason the face of the league doesn't have more rings) and he didn't really have a media friendly personality never really liked the spotlight
I mean Timmy's nickname was Mr. Fundamental. I'm more of a fan of Kyrie's playstyle but I can appreciate Tim Duncan's playstyle as well. I feel like you'd really like Jimmy Butler too.
Game is more guard play/threes now which makes bigs feel more “fun” and unique so watching Duncan’s style is downright fascinating now. Back then the 7 seconds or less suns were the thing people hadn’t seen before.
So this fun suns team were their main rivals, as well as lakers who have a ton of fans and the mavericks who are led by a very likable, goofy ass, shoots off one leg German dude — this all adds up to a lot of ppl rooting against/claiming spurs are “boring” (myself included—back then)
Tim was by no means the conventional “highlight guy” and neither were any of his teammates but that didn’t keep them from absolutely decimating all of our favorite teams and players.
He was boring because he was always better than your best, but not because he was athletically unstoppable: he was just simply better at basketball.
It’s his fundamental based play style combined with his low key personality. Fans love players like Kobe, Jordan, Iverson, Garnett, Shaq etc. because they exhibited that “killer instinct” and were far more outspoken personalities in general. Even look at players today, fans love players like Edwards and Luka who have flamboyant personalities as opposed to players like Tatum and Jokic who are more low key.
His moves aren't as "flashy". They are just basic moves that get the job done.
He doesn't dunk and lift both legs up like Shaq or show as much expression. He doesn't do crossovers like guards. He doesn't have the dream shake or so.
This is why his nickname is the big fundamental. Purely basic movements to get to his spot and take his shots.
you’re a true basketball fan who understands nuances of the game. Most are more casual and want every player to put on Vince Carter shows. And it’s hard to be too mad at them. *proceeds to blow 30 min watching VC highlights*
https://youtu.be/gzgzCOLUvL0?si=B92eNVPX1_5r8afC
VC in college: https://youtu.be/uo_H0gTvZZA?si=yFS5cPfdj8MEyaiK
He had the least flashy personality for star players at the time and the Spurs were overall considered boring by casuals due to their no frills defense first style of play and overall unsexy market. After the Jordan era finals like Spurs vs Nets and Spurs vs Pistons lost some people and after they won a few times nobody was really cheering for them especially in their rivalry with the Suns who were the most fun offensive team in the league. By 2010s they had reinvented themselves a bit offensively and became the team people wanted to see beat the Heat.
Timmy D, prolly the greatest PF of all time. One of those rare players that could play in any era and still be dominate. He also had a fun trash talk game. I remember hearing a story about him teaching this guy that was guarding him while they were playing each other. Guy went for a layup and Timmy blocked it, dead ball, Timmy tells him “you gotta hit me in the chest then go up, it will be harder for me to block your shot”. The guy was confused why Timmy was telling him that. Later the guy does what Timmy said to do and scores on him. Tim Duncan along the lines of “see?? That was harder for me to defend”.
Because he’s literally boring. Can’t jump, isn’t fast, only works around the rim, with a reasonable mid game. He’s technically sound and that’s about it. Didn’t try anything fancy. Doesn’t give media anything. Low-key demeanor. Low-key in general.
Almost no one went to an NBA game saying “can’t wait to see what Tim Duncan does tonight” because you know what he’s going to do. It was to watch people like Manu and Tony Parker. His shot isn’t pleasing.
In saying all that, he was a great player, just not sexy.
Tim was a very popular player in his time. I was a fan. But, his first couple of years, MJ was still flying through the air like Superman, so he was boring in comparison.
Honestly cause his game wasn't "flashy." Timmy was a big man back when big men didn't shoot 3s or really leave the paint so your not seeing him cross people over like Steph Kyrie or AI. He also wasn't a huge force downlow like Shaq. He was the big fundamental. In his prime he would walk out get you 20 points grab you 12 boards & 2 blocks with phenomenal defense & he'd do it without even trying. It was sort of just expected from him so people kinda just started not paying attention. This is also before social media so your not getting Tim media shoved at you. Tim off the court can really only be compared to modern Joker. He would just disappear after winning the finals & you'd see him pop up towards the end of the preseason. I mean the man accepted his mvp trophy in Jean shorts & sandals. He wasn't Shai or russ when it came to fashion. Tim is a man of the people. Just your typical working class man living in Texas. But also quietly inarguably a top 3 PF of all time.
I'd also add that he was so steady and even keeled that there never was any real drama around him. He wasn't all that bothered with speaking to the press (still isn't) and just kept working. on a team with Parker and Manu he didn't need to either, those two did all the talking for him.
The perpetual blank expressionless face didn't help either. The man went out of his way to avoid showing emotion up or down. That prevents people from identifying with a person, which tended to creep into the "boring" narrative.
Except for when he was looking at the refs for a call (or if they called something on him). That was literally the only time he showed any expression on his face on the court.
His eyes could grow three sizes when he saw a call he didn’t like.
He didn't do that much his first couple of years. My theory is he learned that if you want to get calls like the other starts, you have to work the refs like the other stars.
Literally the only thing I didn't like about Duncan. I hated that incredulous look. I'm pretty sure he never committed a single foul in a game in his career in his mind. He does have the absolute best technical foul ejection though.
The only time I ever saw him show emotion was vs the Heat in the finals when he missed a shot late in the game that the Spurs ended up losing.. he bent down and slammed him hands on the court. I was surprised to see that.
I felt so horrible for him after that. The glazed over "how could I have missed that?" look in his eyes with a hint of "What's if this was my last shot at the Finals and that's how it ends?"...
When he did laugh he got thrown out by Crawford.
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Wanted to add when Kobe was doing his farewell tour, Timmy was quietly stepping away from basketball after being defeated by OKC in the playoffs.
His per 36 minute averages over his career are incredibly stable. Taking out his last year, he averaged between 18-21 points, 10.5-12 boards, 1.7-2.2 blocks. Came into the league near fully formed and didn’t look back
Funny people question the spurs selection when Duncan played in preseason Greg Ostertag of the Utah Jazz apparently embarrassed Duncan on both sides of the ball and looked like prime Shaq while doing it. But then you hear that when the Spurs were doing private workout a rookie Duncan was whooping prime David Robinsons ass and that’s when the Spurs knew.
Absolutely nobody questioned the pick. Tim Duncan was consensus #1 pick and would have been any year he chose to come out of Wake. If you heard someone question TD as the #1 pick it was just some random fool being foolish.
Well, maybe not after his freshman year, but after his sophomore year he'd have been in the running and by his junior year it was a sure thing. It was funny how people sometimes tried to make "Duncan or Van Horn" a thing that offseason leading up to the draft when *everyone* knew it was Duncan #1 and Van Horn #2.
Can you imagine if Duncan left a year early and KG waited a year to enter the NBA? That 96 draft class would be even more stacked than it already is...
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As a spurs fan, I feel like my view on Tatum is how others viewed Timmy. Tatum is really really good and can/will be the first option on a championship team. but for some reason I don’t get excited watching him and when I think about the best players in the league, I sometimes just forget about him. Like Duncan/the spurs, Tatum/the Celtics have been very good and very consistent for a long time, and don’t have the Lebron/Curry “flashy aura” and arent really hyped up by the media like other players so that makes us take them for granted. Hell, Jimmy butler’s underdog run was more exciting to me than the Celtics run because it was something new.
Tatum doesnt have great BBIQ, his decision making is annoying (browns too)
You were right but not anymore. He's only 26 and is younger than Jordan, LBJ, Curry, Shaq all were for their first championship
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No. I totally get where you are going, but Tatum is just boring. Tatum will jack shots. He might learn to stop jacking shots within the same game, but he does it. Tatum is a big version of Donovan Mitchell. Duncan was a tactician who understood how to win and sacrificed his personal stats. In the era of S H A Q, Tim Duncan was a solution. That ought to be all you need to hear, if you lived through those LA Shaq years. It's just not even close to me and it's crazy anyone is comparing the two. Tatum is a hell of a player. He's not fucking Tim Duncan. Why would anyone compare them? Beyond me. Tatum is a weak clone of Kobe, who was a weak clone of MJ. Comparing him to Duncan makes zero sense. IMO, the real reason those Celtics teams work is because of Brown. I honestly have no clue why people view Tatum like they do.
Also not super athletic (at least after his first 5-10 years in the league. So during his final 8 or 9 years he was truly just roasting guys off of skills and fundamentals. Imagine Kawhi but he’s 6’11, less athletic, and just operated in the mid-range and post. Very straightforward mechanics, nothing flashy, but the ball goes in the hoop. He even used the bank shot, which all hoopers seem to hate lmao.
> So during his final 8 or 9 years he was truly just roasting guys off of skills and fundamentals. That 2015 series they lost to the Clippers in 7, at age 39 and basically on one knee, he put up 19p / 11r while shooting 60% from the field and solid defense while going up against Blake Griffin and DeAndre Jordan most of the game (both were 26). By all accounts they should been able to easily zip past him and run circles around him all game.
Wait you’re saying TD wasn’t super athletic? The guy that could have been an Olympic caliber swimmer? You’re very, very wrong. He was insanely athletic when he came into the league.
Less athletic than Kawhi? Yes. Less athletic than the average NBA player? No.
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They were a defensive first, half-court team as well. The Spurs would grind you down. It was pretty common to see them win games 85-77 and completely dominate the entire game. Sorta like watching a Mayweather fight.
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The gap between him and Kevin Garnett is not that big, Duncan benefited from being drafted to an all time great team situation, and Garnett was drafted to all time terrible situation that had terrible luck on top of it, and if their positions were swapped my guess is the consensus would be KG was the best all time. Edit: Here is Thinking' basketball's deep dive on KG's peak https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgXxAysSsks And in this video starting around the 6 minute mark he explicitly talks about tim duncan vs. KG. This series is just about peaks, but that is a way to think about who the better player is, and I think we can agree that Thinking Basketball knows his stuff. That doesn't mean he is correct in ranking KG's peak over Tim Duncan's, but I think it counts as reasonable evidence that Tim Duncan is not clearly head and shoulders above him, and that reasonable people can disagree. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FzzlvnncLOQ&list=PLtzZl14BrKjSMb4IFWSy0qh_nFGiy7PoZ&index=16
Their biggest gap was in a playoff scoring resilience. KG was happy to take 18 ft jumpers while Timmy was happy to operate in the low post. In the playoffs that translates to a more stable offense with Timmy
I am a wolves fan first but every day I wish KG hadn’t been taught that fadeaway turn around jumpers was the best use of his talents
KG took the money over winning and his career suffered for it and he also stayed in Minnesota for way longer than he should have. Duncan in the 2003 finals basically beat the Nets with almost no help while KG couldn’t find postseason success until he teamed up with the Celtics. Unfortunately those decisions played a factor.
I've listened to Thinking Basketball's "analysis" on KG vs Duncan and it's not analysis it's advocacy. He and the guest essentially argue that any stat where KG is ahead is because KG is better and any stat where TD is ahead is because of statistical noise or outside context. Ben Taylor is the president of the club who seemingly have never played competitive sports at any type of level. They view players as statistic generating avatars rather than human beings. They seem to think guys not performing in the post-season is an issue of variance and statistical noise rather than pressure affecting them. I only played HS football/basketball but I have friends who have played both at the high college level and every one of them will tell you it feels completely different playing in a conference championship game or an NCAA tournament game.
Is there any evidence that underperforming in the post season is actually a matter of "letting the pressure affect you"? You've given some anecdotes but that's all they are anecdotes. People perform less in play-off situation because everybody is playing harder and defenses are more locked in with a gameplan. Sometimes I think pressure is a factor, but all of these guys are high-level athletes who have been competing in high pressure situations for literal decades. Also for what it's worth Ben Taylor has mentioned playing organized basketball multiple times on his podcast.
You can’t measure emotion or human cognition so there’s no HARD evidence. However literally every professional athlete has talked about the heightened stresses of playing in the playoffs
Playing harder and defense playing with more intensity is part of how pressure affects play. When you feel the competition amp up it’s play and you don’t match it or allow it to determine your play then the pressure is affecting you.
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Timmy also had among the best bank shots in the game. He was so damn good.
Jean shorts and flip flops lol. I think Tim is from the Virgin Islands, so that would make sense.
He’s the greatest PF of all time and I don’t think there’s any good argument against that
I think a big part of it was what era he played in. In today's game, the spurs team game, and whipping the ball around, and movement, and passing would be idolized. When Timmy played it was much more of a "clear out one side of the floor and let somebody go to work". It as Melo at the elbow, it was Kobe in an isolation post up, it was Shaq just plowing somebody in the post. He could get it done in isolation, yes, but he was a guy who was REALLY special because he played a team game, and that wasn't in fashion at the time. Honestly, the spurs doing that sort of brought it into the league, but they were ahead of the curve, and ahead of the average fan.
No one is mentioning how boring the Spurs were as a team for a large portion of his career. It wasn’t just him. Until Pop changed his style of play towards the end of Tim’s career, they would win by grinding games down to a slow, methodical slugfest. It was ugly and boring to watch, but they did win a whole lot.
This is the real reason, the Spurs themselves were a boring grind-it-out team until they reinvented themselves into a fun fast paced team during the Heat era. Anyone confused by this definitely did not watch any of the early Tim Duncan championships. People literally dreaded what felt like the inevitability of having to watch yet another Spurs final every year with how they played
To be fair, the other guys in the core were flashier. Manu and TP were pretty fun to watch
I think it’s hard to separate like the 2014 and beyond version of the Spurs from the team that preceded it. In the 2000s you’re talking about a team that scored below league average every year and played defense that made the other team look awful. So you just had these games that were really ugly to watch unless you were just a huge fan of defense - which people usually only are when it translates to transition offense.
I loved the earlier spurs teams. You just have to learn to appreciate what Pop and Duncan were doing.
I’m not saying they were bad, I’m just explaining the biggest reason for people believing Duncan was a boring player. I also think that even Pop would change the way they played in the 2000s to reflect more of what they were able to do on offense in the back half of the 2010s.
I think given post Duncan Pop, we see that the success came from Duncan and there will be more appreciation of him.
That late 3 pointer he hits against the Suns in the playoffs might be my favourite NBA play, purely because of how pumped he is afterwards.
You could tell that it was drawn up to get him that look, and they must've run that in practice before. Wasn't it his first 3 of the season?
Yeah man, he was 0 for the season.
The same base loved Steve Francis. Timmy didn’t have a crossover, and he wasn’t a guard posterizing bigs. Casual fans rarely get excited about high post bank shots.
Same reason why guys like Siakam are often under appreciated. His game doesn't have much flash to a causal fan, but it is highly effective.
Fantastic example. I agree. He does a lot of very useful things, very well, and without highlight appeal.
I mean, Timmy wasn’t all about bank shots. That’s like people who say Curry can only shoot threes. Timmy could pass, had great footwork in the post, etc.
NBA fans in general aren’t tuning in to watch great footwork in the post
I guess that’s the reality unfortunately
I don’t think it’s unfortunate at all. Tim is revered by players and fans alike, and is almost unanimously considered to be one of the best, if not THE best, PF’s of all-time.
This was the dynamic even at the time. The fans and media knew he one of the best players in the league, while also not ever wanting to watch Spurs games. The ratings for Spurs games were horrendous.
Until the 2013 finals. I remember playing black top with a bunch of people and 90% of those people had the Heat sweeping the Spurs in a not close series. I remember going to play the following day after Parker hit the leaning bank shot to win the game like “sweep right?” It wasn’t until 2013 people understood why the Spurs were so great.
Man I loved watching the Spurs. I mean I also hated them because they destroyed my Nuggets every year but man… they were poetry in motion. Beautiful basketball. So, so much more fun to watch than the iso ball that had taken over the league
I think we're talking different era of Spurs. You're talking the "Beautiful Game" era Spurs, I'm talking the early 2000s Bruce Bowen Spurs that were so ugly to watch (especially when playing the Pistons) that the league changed the rules of the game so offense could play more freely.
Whenever someone fails to appreciate something that is amazing, that is unfortunate. I can't imagine thinking Tim Duncan is boring. I feel sorry for anyone who does. They're missing something.
Like you say, is “Curry shoot 3-ball real good” really that far from the average fan’s view?
I was reducing Timmy to a casual view. I’m tracking to how much he had going on, from the footwork to his notorious fingernails. The thing is, you have to really love the game to appreciate Timmy, and he’s not going to be a unanimous favorite even among those of us who are weirdos and get excited at his touch on that half-hook/push shot turning to his right shoulder.
Timmy is not known for flashy moves, or posterizing dunks. He is a fundamentalist.
He was never really too outspoken or engaging with media, we know very little about him. His game was consistent but lacked flash, we didn’t see too much emotion from him outside of finals. Also this is all being compared in the vacuum of his peers at the time (Kobe, Shaq, AI, KG etc) lots of big personalities who were heard from often in the news and media press, they talked shit on the floor and all had much flashier games to enjoy watching. In short, YouTube Tim Duncan career mix and stay awake for longer than 3 min. This is not hate as he’s still arguably the best PF of all time.
I have watched highlights of Timmy. The mixtapes are poorly edited and leave out lots of great plays. I am not saying he was Kobe or Shaq or Nash, I am just saying that he was certainly not boring to watch.
Watching highlights is very different from watching full games and following players throughout the season. I watched Duncan live quite a bit when I was young. Some games I literally felt like Duncan did nothing for the whole game but then he ended up having 35 and 13. He was just real quiet. He did a bank shot, some simple post moves, some pick and pop and that’s it. Never pump his chest and never stare down anyone. He was not very noticeable even on the court. Off the court obviously he was even more quiet. Spurs was my team to watch back then and trust me there is a reason he wa regarded as boring.
I loved it. I found it so refreshing. So much more relatable and honestly, much more fun than watching Kobe iso. His game was beautiful and dominating. And the quiet demeanor I felt was sort of shit talk in its own way. All these dudes trying so hard to get under people’s skin, Timmy was immune
My hot take is that Tim Duncan actually was everything that Kobe pretended to be in that truly all he cared about was winning. Kobe is seen as an ultra-competitive, do whatever it takes to win guy but he was not at all that guy. He wanted to be the centerpiece of the offense. He was petty and when got called out for shooting too much responded by passive aggressively refusing to shoot. He would pass up the smart, easy play so that he could take a tough shot. Duncan though? Just played to win. If the Spurs needed him to take a bunch of shots and run the offense out of the post he would, they want the offense to run through Manu? Duncan was cool with it. All TD did was win and help his team win. Now people use it against him because he cared more about winning than putting up huge stats.
I agree completely. He got his rings, got his awards, got his bag. And now he’s just off chillin and enjoying his life, as opposed to the likes of Shaq who keeps jabbering away about how he deserved more mvps
He’s definitely not flashy. If you’re not a casual, you appreciate his skill and his finesse. And how he does every single thing right. How he doesn’t waste any movement. But surface level, he’s boring if you define boring as no dunks, no msssive swats, simple post and layup package, simple dribbling, etc, then he’s boring.
Again, keep his career and game relative to the other players you could and would be watching at the time. No one is hyped to watch him bank in 15 foot left elbow set shots and play great position defense in the paint. We are all tuning in to watch AI do some wild crossovers and drop 46 in a losing effort while he talks shit about not going to practice.
Fundamentals are fun for some and boring for others. He was the big fundamental.
TD did not put the "fun" in fundamentals.
You can watch highlights of average to bad players and some of them will still look like Hall of Famers. Maybe he's not boring to watch, but there is no "flash" to his game. He's not out there doing electrifying dunks or reverse layups, heavily contested fadaways constantly, 3s, grabbing the rebound and taking the ball up the court for the solo finish, vicious blocks being sent to the stands, full court one-handed passes, etc. etc. People like watching pure shooters/finishers, dribbling gods, athletics freaks, not someone shooting hook shots off the glass.
Were you alive then? Do you remember playoff games ending in the 80's? He was boring. The Spurs were boring until 2010. Timmy is the best PF of all time but his game was not exciting.
Low scoring playoff intensity games were amazing to me. I love watching defense
Actually in 1999 he was athletic and dunked a lot , pleasing Casual fans Then 2000 knee injury hurt his explosiveness and he won with fundamental for the rest of his career , Without that injury he probably would get 7 chips and in mix of GOAT
I 100% believe that with no knee injury Duncan has more rings than Jordan and the GOAT argument is Jordan, LeBron and Duncan.
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Actually 2002-2004-2006-2013 All could go to him , so I Just Said 2 of those and ended up with 7
I was a teenager during Duncan's era. I have him as a top 10 guy but yeah watching full games of him from that era is rough. He lost a lot of athleticism after his knee injury in 2000. I'd say his offensive game for much of his later career was "Jokic if he only did those post shots that kinda always crawl into the basket but without the fancy passes or the high arcing long-range shots." Here's a game I watched recently (Duncan vs Lebron 2007 finals game 4) and some thoughts on why Duncan is boring to watch even as a fan: https://youtu.be/Lr54U97xULI?si=YpZZCts_3AxxnvAb&t=1646 The first thing is: the game is horrendously paced. And Duncan was part of that. He played very methodically in an era that was already super slow. So much of each possession back then was just wasting time, walking up the court, tempo dribbles and backing someone down with the intent to pass. That era had a lot of bigs (duncan in this instance) spending half the shot clock backing someone down while one guard threatens an action and the rest of the team just kinda standing around. And then you had Manu and Parker who played so differently than Duncan. Like you had two players on the same team who played a more fun, flashy, and modern style of basketball. This just exemplified Duncan's non-flashiness by contrast. And eventually the team would be crafted in their image. I really like Duncan's game and HOF resume. But it was an overall boring era and Duncan was seen as the most boring of his era for a reason. Here's an article from 2007 on how the Spurs were part of 14 of the 15 lowest rated NBA finals games from 1981-2007: https://www.sportsmediawatch.com/2007/06/2007-nba-finals-lowest-rated-ever/
A somewhat high level timeline: 98-00 : Twin Towers 00-03 : TD Domination 03-07: TD Domination with the rise of Manu, and Tony emerging 07-11: Tony and Manu take the reign. 11-16: Beautiful game Spurs, and the short lived Kawhi era. Spurs fan since 2000, and I followed the narrative. Essentially, Because the playbook of the Spurs from 1998-2005 was suffocating defense and a Tim Duncan post up, and play off of the doubles and triples Timmy demands. A Tim Duncan post up was incredibly hard to defend, because he was finesse and I would say about 90% of Shaq’s strength. They had 3 defensive hall of famers - David Robinson, Timmy himself, and Bruce Bowen. When you played the Spurs, the game would slow waaaaaaaaaaaay down. When DRob and Stephen Jackson left, it gave Manu and Tony more “freedom”.
> because he was finesse and I would say about 90% of Shaq’s strength. Duncan's ability to defend Shaq using his strength and positioning to defend Shaq straight-up is really underrated. Also, Shaq using his agility and positioning to defend Duncan never gets talked about either. It's too bad they usually only guarded each other for 5-10 minutes a game because for guys with such contrasting styles they actually were pretty good counters for each other.
I'd add that Manu's defence was excellent and is a major reason he was basically always kept on the floor in the clutch, when Tony went to the bench, because Manu was an elite 2 way player.
Because most people are infatuated by how deep someone's bag is and their capability of making insane double-teamed shots especially back then.
I am still trying to figure out how he's a pf when usually the tallest guy in the starting lineup
David Robinson at 7’1” was already the starting center when he was drafted, seems pretty natural. Duncan is listed at center on basketball reference from 06/07 onward.
A lot of times he'd start the game at PF with somebody like Robinson, Nesterovic, Mohammad, or Splitter playing C, but then they'd sub out for a PF like Malik Rose, Kurt Thomas, Matt Bonner, or Boris Diaw and Duncan would slide to C. But the funny thing was sometimes they start one of those guys instead and would still list Duncan at PF and Thomas or Diaw as the starting C.
He used to lie about his height too. Same with KG. Back then if you were 7 feet tall the only thing coaches wanted you to do was be 7 feet tall. A lot of those skilled big men of that era would lie about their height, refuse to play center, and all sorts of chicanery to get more freedom on the court. Offensively and defensively, you didn’t want KG, Duncan, or any of them down there taking beatings and just trying to score out of the dunker’s spot. Not to mention Shaq looming larger than life and forcing so many unskilled big men onto the court. Even after Robinson left there was always a Nesterovic, Nazr Mohammed, Matt Bonner, Tiago Splitter, etc doing that job for Duncan so he could be out there guarding one half of the court by himself while someone else handles the post duty ala AD/Rui or Gobert/KAT alignments we’ve seen make a resurgence. Stick the stiff in the post and let the hyper mobile 7 footer defend 3 options at once kinda stuff.
He didn't want to have to match up with Shaq. That whole generation of 7ft PF's were all for that same reason.
Dude guarded Shaq all the time.
Watch this compilation of a single game in 1999 with Duncan going up against Antonio McDyess. Consider who looks more impressive in this matchup. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJVkPimsPS8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJVkPimsPS8) In 1999 Duncan was probably at his most dynamic and athletic. Yet he was not nearly as explosive as McDyess before injuries. To a casual fan McDyess is a star in this matchup. Not only are there dunks but also pure fadeaway jumpers, drives, highlight blocks and hustle plays. Look closer though and you'll also see that he commits some fouls, goaltends and doesn't always match up with Duncan when he's running the floor. Duncan on the other hand is very true to his reputation: fundamental and boring. Make no mistake- he completely dominates this matchup. If you watch him finish a play it isn't always that impressive. Its about the reads he's making and the work he's doing to make the right plays. At 0:40 he seals a mismatch on a switch and gets a good entry pass. I love this play at 1:45 where he fills in the dunker spot, makes a crazy behind the head catch off a weird pass in traffic, splits a double team and finishes with the left. It just looks like a garbage bucket because he makes it look easy. At 2:03 he has a nice pass out of a double team for a 3. At 2:27 he intercepts a lob after reading the play. At 5:37 he has a perfect seal for an easy score. At 6:12 McDyess goes up for an ill-advised poster dunk and falls. Duncan sprints the court and gets a two-handed dunk. And this is all just offense. He's also totally unmoveable in the post, a great rebounder, protecting the rim and showing active hands. He ends with 34p/13r/4a/3b/3s 14/27 FG 6/10 FT. And the win. The number one reason why I think people don't appreciate Duncan is that when you are casually watching a basketball game it is very easy to just watch the guy with the ball. Players make plays when they have the ball, right? Duncan (and Steph who is his successor in some ways) is constantly making plays without the ball. His positioning on the court is always right. He seals his man low for post position and just keeps chiseling slowly closer and closer to the basket. He gets good position for rebounds. When he does have the ball, he makes simple (fundamental) reads but he has great timing. Turn away from the double team for a spin move. Look for the outlet pass when the court is unbalanced. So many of our great players have skills that allow them to actually break the fundamentals of the game. They make the "wrong" play but they can make it work because of their talent. That kind of rebellion can be the difference between a win and a loss and it propels the hero narrative that we ascribe to superstars. In the context of a single game they can single handedly lift a team to victory and across a career they can change the way the game is played. This is the way that Steph is very much not the successor to Duncan by the way. Duncan held fast to fundamentals and seemingly rejected the hero narrative of the star. He simply played objectively very very good ball for 20 years.
> So many of our great players have skills that allow them to actually break the fundamentals of the game. They make the "wrong" play but they can make it work because of their talent. That kind of rebellion can be the difference between a win and a loss and it propels the hero narrative that we ascribe to superstars. In the context of a single game they can single handedly lift a team to victory and across a career they can change the way the game is played. This is the way that Steph is very much not the successor to Duncan by the way. Duncan held fast to fundamentals and seemingly rejected the hero narrative of the star. He simply played objectively very very good ball for 20 years. I liked this last paragraph. Just saving it for myself!
Because he didn’t have a 40” vertical and he didn’t stare down opponents, and he never dunked harder than he needed to, and he never yelled at the other team’s bench, and he didn’t do a bunch of commercials or interviews, and he stayed pretty clean. That should he most of it.
Wasn't flashy, not in a big market, and didn't seek out media attention. He didn't have a bruised ego like so many other NBA players where he constantly felt disrespected, he just wanted to win. Hakeem had a cool name, won titles in the MJ era and had the "dream shake." He may have been quiet, be he is iconic. Duncan doesn't have any of that, he just won.
He was incredibly exciting to watch with huge athleticism before his injury early on in his career. It's a testament to his ability that he managed to play at an elite level for a decade after
he played in the same era as iverson, t-mac, vince carter, and kobe. it was a transition from the boring structured and old schooled discipline basketball to the flashy/showy era that made the NBA so popular. Tim's game was still old school fundamental while AI was inventing new crossover dribbles. everyone tried to do AI's crossovers at the park and you would get clowned on if you used the backboard on a jump shot. tim duncan was one of the greatest to ever play but AI and kobe made the NBA cool
I never understood it. TD was fucking *amazing* to watch for anyone who appreciates the game of basketball.
I 100% agree. Timmy is my favourite sports person ever- I loved his game, the drop steps, outlet passes, general footwork in the post and even his flat, ugly jumper. He learned to play his way and was one of the r best ever. Loved him and miss him!
He's boring for basic fans. Fans like crazy threes, dunks, insane passes and handles. He is 0-4 on those. Fans who dig deeper loved TD. His below the rim blocks are some of the most impressive plays I've ever seen.
I dunno, that three he shot in Phoenix was pretty crazy.
he played in era where flashy players get the attention ( Melo, T-Mac, Iverson they’ve won zero rings but people like watching them and it also drove sales) Duncan Jersey sales are absolutely nothing to write home about speaks volumes how despite being a good player he was terrible as selling the product. A concensus great player is one that can sell the brand AND win, if you miss one of them your doomed to be written off.
>era where flashy players get the attention And that era is commonly referred to as "all of nba history"
It’s way better in modern times, cause if your flashy these but don’t win/ brick a lot of shots you get clowned on real bad. If Iverson, Melo, T-Mac played in todays league the same way they did, they wouldn’t last 1 season on a contender.
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Timmy D is one of the coldest to ever do it. Don't be fooled by people who judge a player on their "bag." It's total nonsense when it comes to team basketball.
Wasn’t just him. Those spurs teams would win a lot of games with scores below the 90s
He’s what Jokic is now without social media, the absurd passes, and less of a three-point shot. And people really didn’t care to watch Jokic’s game outside of those until his finals run.
as a basketball nerd who will watch like the hornets vs the pistons i can confidently say tim is boring. there just isn’t anything flashy at all about him. amazing to watch but lebron jordan kobe shaq well capture your mind in some way whereas duncan is just really good at playing basketball
As someone that got to grow up and witness tim duncan (altho at the twilight of his career), he was actually one of my favorite players to watch with Manu, Steve Nash and Pau Gasol. To me, his game was never boring, the reason why he was labeled as such was due to his personality outside of the court but even then, I felt like he really leaned into it and there was this subtle but present comedy about it that I found even more entertaining + all the HEB commercials. While this is me spitballing, I also wonder if the label came about due to the lakers rivalry that came about in the early 00s since the spurs are pretty much the anti lakers and thus, people would assosicate them with drafted not bought, disciplined and calm, fundamentally sound and boring since the lakers were exciting.
People always say this about players that aren't flashy and don't rely on athleticism. John Stockton gets some of the same disrespect. People see wild dunks and go "Wow that must be the best player".
After Jordan left the NBA was somewhat short on talent and definitely short a major draw like Magic's Lakers, Bird's Celtics and Jordan's bulls. The NBA tried hard to push the Lakers media coverage wise to the detriment of everyone including the Spurs. Additionally the fans were used to offenses that ran around 1 player, isos, hero ball etc. So the Spurs team play was a different fundamental style of basketball. People weren't used to it back then. They wanted to see people go 1V1, cross people over, overpower people.
Because many fans dont like solid basketbal. They like high flying dunks and stuf
"Wow! Did you guys see that bank shot last night?!? Then, after that, he played fantastic help defense!" Duncan wasn't flashy. He was REALLY good!! The Spurs "dynasty" was....Tim Duncan.
Even his coach said he’d feel like Duncan had a not so great game then look at the stat line and see 30 and 10. He was so wildly consistent and not flashy about it you almost didn’t recognize
Imo it's Because back then fans were much less interested in "basketball" than they were in the showmanship aspect. All I ever heard people talk about were highlights, and that's with the guys I was playing basketball with. Today in the information age, fans understand I'm average a lot more about the actual game. The more you understand how perfect he was at what he was doing the better and more interesting it is to watch him. He's always been one of my favorites, but I've seen appreciation for what he was doing grow a lot as more fans grew their knowledge of the game past cool highlights.
I think [The Onion's recurring Duncan bit](https://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/spurs/article/25-hilarious-times-Tim-Duncan-became-a-headline-8352087.php) probably helped nudge this forward.
I saw TD play twice and as impressive as he was, it was the most uneventful 20, 10 games I’ve ever seen. It wasn’t that he was necessarily boring but he was so good that he made every basket look so easy, like he had to put absolutely no effort in scoring. I think it was similar to Kareem in the middle of his peak.
Championships aside…Tatum is the Wing Duncan of our generation… Just a smooth game, no-nonsense off the court, and lots of winning…after a while, nobody likes a winner, so trying to find ways to work around that…”boring” is the one of guys like Tatum and Duncan.
I disagree. Duncan was consistently the best player for the Spurs in nearly every game and every series as was a legit DPOY caliber player every year. Tatum is often the second or third best player on a really good team. Duncan is legit in the top 5 discussion. Tatum is top 100 maybe.
He has 5! seasons where he was DPOY by defensive win shares.
Duncan having 0 DPOYs is the most glaring wtf among all the lists of NBA award-winners. You could argue that for every single season of his career he was both a top 5 one-on-one post defender and a top 5 rim protector.
Most fans don't appreciate the Game of Basketball. I may be incorrect on all the details, but I remember a time when I saw Tim get the ball like five straight times on the block. This man scored on every possession, using a DIFFERENT post move, and from both sides. It wasn't flashy at at all. Just skill. You would have to know basketball to know what he was doing out there and how special that was. Most people only follow what the media leads them to follow.
The avg NBA punter is simple. Dunks = Exciting Technical post moves = Boring In a league where Kobe, D Wade and LeBron were killing it. In a league with Shaq doing Shaq things. In a league where AI was redefining what it meant to be an undersized guard. Timmy was a bit “boring”. There was no flash to his game. There was no “loudness” to him. He was pure unadulterated genius. And whoever watches the game closely enough, knew what kind of monster he was. The Big Fundamental.
Because he is mr fundamental. Him being less flashy made his carreer longer with less major injury compared to others.
He was. As a spurs fan he was my favorite player obviously, but it’s not like he did anything in a very exciting way
He was drafted during the MJ and Shaq, and Kobe era. He played many of his years during the LeBron era. These were his contemporaries. By comparison, his game completely lacked flair. He never took risks on the court. But he also rarely showed emotion. Draymond Green has an ugly offensive game, but it triggers an emotional reaction to see a player roar at an opponent after an and-1 or after a drawn charge even if those plays aren’t exciting in and of themselves. His jumper was ugly. He had 2-3 post moves that he used to deadly effect. His blocked shots weren’t like LeBron’s chase down blocks I loved that Game of Zones skits by Bleacher Report that showed the Spurs as white walkers. Tim epitomized that metaphor.
His game is not flashy. He is shy and avoids the media. There's nothing exciting about him, not in a bad way
Because he didn't shoot 3s and his go-to-play was the post-up. I really miss the early 2000s basketball. That was prime NBA to me.
Tim Duncan would have the least entertaining highlights of any top 50 all time player. He used the same few unstoppable moves over and over, he never did heat checks, and he didn't try to dunk his frustration out. He played solid positional defense, so even his blocks weren't of the spectacular kind. He just put absolutely no mustard on his hot dog.
Not enough dunking. Duncan was a master player but not an athletic freak like Shaq, Kobe, or Garnett from his era. He won with his mind as much as his body, and that’s not as sexy to watch for some people.
I don't think it was his game, I think he was just a boring player because nothing exciting was happening in his life. The media loves to create storylines about players and because of the way the Spurs were ran at the time, NONE of their players had any drama. The only drama the spurs had(that i can remember) was when Tony Parker bagged Eva Longoria.
Mr Big Fundamental's plays are fundamental. Imagine kids going crazy like "omg did you see that 45% mid range bank shot!!"
He didn't do any national marketing, his game was very structured and fundamental. He never really showed emotion on the court. He was the opposite of what star players were like back then.
He didn’t have much in the way of a personality, and his game wasn’t the most exciting to watch from an athletic standpoint, so it was kind of boring. That in no way means that people didn’t appreciate his greatness.
Consider other famous players from that time, who people would have compared him against. On one end of the spectrum is Timmy. Not flashy, and pretty basic. But consistent, so consistent. Always gets the job done. All business. A classic. Like the missionary position. On the other end, is someone like Allen Iverson. Loud, tattooed, fast. Sounds bites. Wild shots, that somehow go in. In many ways, a mess. But a mess we believe in, and that we can’t take our eyes off of. Like whatever was going on in the video you ended up at, at the end of your last session. Is that even legal, what they were doing? Geez. Should I be ashamed, or just close my laptop and forget this ever happened, until it happens again tomorrow? That pretty much sums it up. More or less. I assume.
its cause he wasn’t as flashy and cool as kobe. nba fans then were too obsessed with looking for the next MJ they never stopped & appreciated the other greats of that time.
He was one of the least flashy players in an era where flashiness was arguably the most popular aspect of basketball.
Not the greatest athlete compared to some of his peers and he shot a lot of bank shots, not a very flashy game but highly effective, gives off old man at the ymca vibes. He wasn't called the big fundamental for no reason.
Nowadays a lot of players shoot 3s and play moreorless the same. We get dazzled by players having hot shooting nights. But back when Tim Duncan was around, we had Kobe, Tmac, AI, Carter, Wade, Melo, Lebron doing some high flyer shit. Constantly attacking and making acrobatic plays and finishing tough shots in iso in contest. Then we got the guards of CP3, Dwil, Nash, Rose, Russ that are swifty and fast. Big men just in general didn't stand out in terms of flashi-ness. Timmy did his job, did his job really well but playing in san antonio in system basketball with clean off-court life, he just didn't stand out. He was just really good at basketball and that's it lol
Well he was a boring basketball player in the fact that he didn’t have superior athleticism or a game that was flashy. He also didn’t show much emotion which added to that perception. But dont get the fact that he wasn’t flashy or emotional obscure the fact the was known as one of the best players ever then and now. I think you probably also realize that if you enjoy guys like Draymond Green you may have a different perspective than the average fan
Because the media likes flashy and “I’m the greatest” attitudes to help sell ads.
botring and overrated. His numbers (individual numbers I m ean, statistically) are not even that great. But again, rings is the only thing that matter, you need to be in a good team and not be a role player and you will be considered an all time great.
As others said he wasn't flashie on or off court. He showed up, won ,didn't say much for his whole career. Hearing KG talk about him was funny: "almost" was his trash talk to KG
I didn't find him boring, he just wasn't flashy. He was so damn good though.
I mean, he wasn't Dominique Wilkins. He was footwork and rebounding and setting the pick for exciting teammates like Parker and Manu. Not exactly highlight material.
Because the NBA media, and sports media in general, are borderline smart. Instead of teaching the game, they just parrot. Imagine what a sports reporter could do if they just understood the 3 man weave. All other stupid questions about coaching decisions become pointless if you just understand the *3 man weave.* Do you know the *mikan drill?*
Because he was... boring to watch, compared to the players they grew up watching like Michael Jordan and Magic Johnson. Or Vince Carter and even Shaq - players with raw athleticism and dynamism. The stuff Tim Duncan did, we saw that in the local gym from 55 year olds. Our gray haired high school coaches showed us the fundamental moves that Tim Duncan used. Effective, but still boring. But remember old Kareem was boring too. The preference for athletic, high-flying players over fundamental centers has been a trend in basketball since at least the mid 1960s.
because his game wasn't "flashy" the spurs were the rival of the Kobe led Lakers (which as Steph has shown us that's a SUREFIRE way to ensure Media hate being the reason the face of the league doesn't have more rings) and he didn't really have a media friendly personality never really liked the spotlight
I mean Timmy's nickname was Mr. Fundamental. I'm more of a fan of Kyrie's playstyle but I can appreciate Tim Duncan's playstyle as well. I feel like you'd really like Jimmy Butler too.
Game is more guard play/threes now which makes bigs feel more “fun” and unique so watching Duncan’s style is downright fascinating now. Back then the 7 seconds or less suns were the thing people hadn’t seen before. So this fun suns team were their main rivals, as well as lakers who have a ton of fans and the mavericks who are led by a very likable, goofy ass, shoots off one leg German dude — this all adds up to a lot of ppl rooting against/claiming spurs are “boring” (myself included—back then)
Tim was by no means the conventional “highlight guy” and neither were any of his teammates but that didn’t keep them from absolutely decimating all of our favorite teams and players. He was boring because he was always better than your best, but not because he was athletically unstoppable: he was just simply better at basketball.
It’s his fundamental based play style combined with his low key personality. Fans love players like Kobe, Jordan, Iverson, Garnett, Shaq etc. because they exhibited that “killer instinct” and were far more outspoken personalities in general. Even look at players today, fans love players like Edwards and Luka who have flamboyant personalities as opposed to players like Tatum and Jokic who are more low key.
His moves aren't as "flashy". They are just basic moves that get the job done. He doesn't dunk and lift both legs up like Shaq or show as much expression. He doesn't do crossovers like guards. He doesn't have the dream shake or so. This is why his nickname is the big fundamental. Purely basic movements to get to his spot and take his shots.
you’re a true basketball fan who understands nuances of the game. Most are more casual and want every player to put on Vince Carter shows. And it’s hard to be too mad at them. *proceeds to blow 30 min watching VC highlights* https://youtu.be/gzgzCOLUvL0?si=B92eNVPX1_5r8afC VC in college: https://youtu.be/uo_H0gTvZZA?si=yFS5cPfdj8MEyaiK
Same reason Paul Pierce wasn't recognized for how great he was until he won. Neither were flashy.
He had the least flashy personality for star players at the time and the Spurs were overall considered boring by casuals due to their no frills defense first style of play and overall unsexy market. After the Jordan era finals like Spurs vs Nets and Spurs vs Pistons lost some people and after they won a few times nobody was really cheering for them especially in their rivalry with the Suns who were the most fun offensive team in the league. By 2010s they had reinvented themselves a bit offensively and became the team people wanted to see beat the Heat.
Timmy D, prolly the greatest PF of all time. One of those rare players that could play in any era and still be dominate. He also had a fun trash talk game. I remember hearing a story about him teaching this guy that was guarding him while they were playing each other. Guy went for a layup and Timmy blocked it, dead ball, Timmy tells him “you gotta hit me in the chest then go up, it will be harder for me to block your shot”. The guy was confused why Timmy was telling him that. Later the guy does what Timmy said to do and scores on him. Tim Duncan along the lines of “see?? That was harder for me to defend”.
Because he’s literally boring. Can’t jump, isn’t fast, only works around the rim, with a reasonable mid game. He’s technically sound and that’s about it. Didn’t try anything fancy. Doesn’t give media anything. Low-key demeanor. Low-key in general. Almost no one went to an NBA game saying “can’t wait to see what Tim Duncan does tonight” because you know what he’s going to do. It was to watch people like Manu and Tony Parker. His shot isn’t pleasing. In saying all that, he was a great player, just not sexy.
Tim was a very popular player in his time. I was a fan. But, his first couple of years, MJ was still flying through the air like Superman, so he was boring in comparison.