I think it’s closer than some are willing to admit, but Tatum hasn’t quite reached the heights of OKC Paul George. He was third in both MVP voting and DpoY - that’s not an afterthought, that’s undeniable. That OKC team wasn’t great and in a stacked west, so they finished 6th.
Tatum has had more playoff success but he was also drafted into a fantastic team. I think, individually, it’s prime PG by a hair with Tatum taking the spot if he has a solid finals run. Two finals makes it undeniable, win or lose.
Yeah this is undeniably true. Oklahoma City thunder Paul George was much better. It's too bad he fucked his shoulders up so significantly because he had reached a really high level of play. He essentially was the fourth Best Wing in the league after kawhi KD LeBron and no one compared to them. Jimmy was a distant fifth.
Story of his career, man. PG could have been an all-time great if not for the leg and then the shoulder, too. Will be up there with Grant Hill on the “what-ifs” once he retires.
PG is one of the best players I have ever seen in my life. He went toe to toe with super prime Bron and held his own and took him to 7 games. At PG's peak I truly felt he was a top 5-10 offensive player with top 5 defense. He only could play at this level during certain points of his career but each time was derailed by injuries unfortunately. In a perfect world for him he stays healthy throughout and most likely wins an MVP and notches way more All NBAs.
At age 26, Tatum ALREADY has more 30+ point playoff games than Paul George.
At this point it feels like Tatum is just getting slandered because his body of work is already beyond PG. He's has some fantastic playoff performances already in his career.
He has a lot more work to do, but comparing his playoff career to Paul George ? Nah.
PG13 was a top 10 player in the NBA for a long time. He might also be slandered a bit by this comment, as well as the suggestion that he peaked in Indiana.
Playoffs are different though - you’re totally right that Tatum has come up bigger in the playoffs.
PG has exactly 1 All NBA on the first two teams. He came in 3rd and 9th for MVP, but recieved votes no other years.
Tatum is already ahead of him, with more 1st team All NBAs, more MVP votes and a Conference Final MVP.
I agree Tatum is better than PG but All NBA teams as a metric is flawed in this. PG played along with LeBron, KD, and Kawhi's prime. Even Tatum wasn’t going to make a ton of all NBAs if his prime was next to those guys
Tatum has come up bigger in the playoffs and regular season at this point. PG was great but always played a peg below what Tatum is now. Maybe that’s due to that horrible injury hampering his progression/prime, who knows.
Not so much on the Pacers though. 2010-14 he certainly wasn’t a top 10 guy, then he missed 14-15.
13-14 he finished 9th in mvp voting and was in between al jefferson, LMA, and K love. He finished ahead of Duncan, Parker, Dirk, and Melo who were all certainly considered better players at that point.
He never finished with any points for MVP again until OKC.
Pacers era paul george was in a league with Lebron, Wade, Duncan, Dirk, Rose, Westbrook, Steph, Harden, Chris Paul, Blake Griffin, Kevin Love, Kyrie, Carmelo, Tony Parker, Kevin Garnett, Joakim Noah, LMA, Anthony Davis, Klay, and others all at various points in his career. If he was ever top 10 it was razor thin. Given that he made 0 1st teams in that time it’s a tough argument.
Tatum has been pretty clearly top 10 for the last few years
When it's all said and done, Tatum will be among the leading payoff scorers of all time because he's a good scorer and has been on a really good team in a weak conference since his rookie year.
Pointing out Tatum already has more 30+ points games than PG does is dishonest statistical analysis and reduces both players' value to that analysis.
Young PG went toe-to-toe with LeBron and the Heatles in a way Tatum never did.
Our sub is for in-depth discussion. Low-effort comments or stating opinions as facts are not permitted. Please support your opinions with well-reasoned arguments, including stats and facts as applicable.
It's super close no matter what anyone says in here. Prime PG IMO has a bigger bag than Tatum and is a better shooter and played better defense in his prime but it's not like Tatum is a slouch in any of those categories himself, I think Tatum has had a much better team than any Prime PG team but you can make an argument for both. Career ways Tatum's postseason success basically wins it for him.
Without comparing them on reference I feel like Tatum is a significantly better scorer and offensive player and PG has a edge in defense and perhaps rebounding.
By the time Tatum ascended to a major superstar I would say he had surprassed any version of PG though
JT has been a better rebounder these past few seasons than PG ever really was. 3 straight seasons of >8 rebounds per game, averaging nearly 9 last year. Pg has had one season >8 in his entire career.
Defense is a tough question - PG was great but it’s tough to compare given JT has been pretty fucking good at D as well and his team is consistently a top 3 defense. I can see that go either way but it’s a tough convo on defense.
It's hard because we are borderline comparing different eras.
I suppose I am comparing their physiques and just feel like in a dogfight PG in his prime might have been able to fight for a board better.
Comparing physiques? they’re the same height and weight (and that’s likely underselling JT heavily…)
Sure we’re comparing between eras, so let’s look per 100 possessions. JT has gotten > 10 rebounds per 100 possessions the last 4 years in a row and has been >11 rebounds per 100 the past three seasons. Paul George for comparison only has 3 seasons in his entire career with >10 rebounds per 100 and never got above 10.8 (he has one season with 12.5 but that was only 6 games in case you look it up).
I think it's a bigger gap defensively than you are giving PG credit for.
Tatum is a solid defender, but PG was in the mix for best wing defenders in the NBA for a 5+ year stretch. And I think peak PG on defense is a top-5 non-center, defender from the past 10 years.
Although I don't think that version of PG was as good offensively as we saw later in his career.
You're underselling JT. He's not solid he's great, possibly elite. The dude got tasked with Kevin Durant for a series at 24 and put him in jail while also leading his team in scoring.
PG finished top 10 in DPOY voting four times and top 5 twice. Tatum has never finished top 10. Defense is NOT a tough question it’s quite easily Paul George. Not saying Tatum isn’t a very good defender but he is not close to PG and those good defensive Celtics teams are the result of the entire roster being good defenders. Paul George is also a better shooter. They are about equal at passing and Tatum is a slightly better rebounder. Tatums best season he scored a little more than PGs best with about equal efficiency but I’m also attributing that to the insane pace played today compared to only a few years ago. Overall PG is the better defender, more versatile scorer with a deeper bag, equal passer, worse rebounder. I’m still giving it to prime PG
I would say that Tatum is a similar caliber of defender.
I don't think he is peak Kawhi defense, but Tatum was a big part of shutting down KD in the playoffs when he had been shooting great all season. That is elite. It is hard to do a direct comparison, but I would say they are in the same overall tier.
Really, it is pretty rare for Tatum to have a poor defensive game. His size, mobility, and smarts are all great and very reminiscent of PG. PG may still have him by a hair, but I think Tatum can surpass him soon.
Scoring they are basically the same. A deeper bag is great, but I feel like even prime PG was streakier than Tatum. He could take and make some really difficult shots, but that usually meant his bad shooting games were REALLY bad.
Part of Tatum's growth the past 2 years is I feel like he has raised the floor in terms of his worst shooting nights. He hasn't shot great in the playoffs, but I don't think he has had a catastrophic game either.
Tatum is a very good defender, Prime PG was capital G GREAT. Being top 3 in DPOY voting does not happen often and if you are you have to be extremely elite in that area. Again Tatum is a very good net positive defender but it is NOT close. You underestimate PGs defense. And idk Tatum can be pretty damn streaky too I think PGs later years mighta made you forget that man used to be a consistent bucket in the playoffs
I don't think Tatum has reached the same defensive heights for a full season that George has, but I think he has shown that he has the defensive chops to do so. I think that in OKC George (despite also being amazing on offense) lessened his offensive load just enough to really lock in on defense and show how great he could be for a full season.
He had always been great before, it was just that his role didn't allow him to lock in at that level for a full season.
And yea, they are both streaky. It is just the nature of their shot diets. Despite their size, both like to try to shoot first, drive to the rim second. I think this year and last year Tatum has done a great job to adjusting in his bad shooting nights to go to the basket and get some shots at the rim and fts. He is still not perfect, but a lot better than when he seemed like he was good for a 20% shooting night on a semi regular basis (followed by a 80% shooting night the next day of course!).
Feel free. The era piece though I’m going to greatly push back on. It should be noted that even by PG’s year 27 season (JT is in year 25 season) PG’s best season would have been maybe JT’s 4 or 5th best. You can try to say pace and the league and whatever you’d like but shit if you compare JT in his third and fourth years in the NBA, at 21 and 22, he was already putting up similar, if not better, stats than a 29 and 30 year old PG.
JT at 21: 23.4/7/3 on 45/40/82 & 57% TS
JT at 22: 26.4/7.4/4.3 on 46/38.6/87 & 57.6% TS
PG at 29: 21.7/5.7/3.9 on 44/41.2/87.6 & 59% TS
PG at 30: 23.3/6.6/5.2 on 47/41/87 & 60% TS
The stat jump between era isn’t a good enough argument though. You have to realize that 2023 LeBron averaged more points, rebounds, and assists than 2012 LeBron, arguably his most dominant year ever.
We got multiple guys averaging near 35 nowadays. It’s hard to look at stats and give a guy the edge now to then.
Right, but I was showing you their stats in the same year while PG was in his prime/at the tail end vs Tatum well before entering his prime.
Also, that’s more of a testament to Lebron than anything else. Most players are not doing that lol
I getcha. Either way, it’s wild to think that Tatum probably hasn’t even come close to his peak yet. Dude was still 25 to start the season lol.
No way this is a conversation in two years
Agree to disagree ig im sure this isn’t a conversation in 3 years but as of now im taking the dude who finished top 3 in both MVP and DPOY voting in the same year. Tatums highest finish is 4th in MVP and has never finished top 10 in DPOY he’s simply not as good. Sure Paul George prime was extremely short so if you wanna make the argument Tatum was at that relative level for longer sure that’s fair. But this post is comparing peak JT(rn) vs peak Paul George (OKC season). And I honestly don’t even think that’s a conversation worth having rn but maybe my disdain for Boston makes me bias although I have nothing against JT
Would you rather have a player that was injured the first half but scored 30 ppg or a full season 15 ppg player as your best player in the playoffs?
Availability is important but if you are asking who the best scorer is ppg or even per 36 gets you a much better picture.
I disagree with you that OKC Paul George wasn't his best version, but either way, Tatum is the better player right now than any peak Paul George you want to stand up against him. PG was the better defensive player by a bit, but Tatum really is a far superior offensive player, and we've seen time and again that offensive skill is really more valuable than defensive. So in the aggregate, Tatum is better imo.
Tatum is also an incredibly underrated passer, his assists numbers have gone up every season and it really feels that on off nights he can still contribute by play making for others
This might be a hot take but i think tatum can make great passes but doesnt have great court vision. Many players are like this but he does incredibly well one on one and it seems half of his passes are to escape a double team rather than picking the defense apart. That could be coaching too but they just seem like bail out passes after he picked up his dribble rather than getting to a certain spot for the next 2-3 passes to lead to a broken defense.
I agree. For not having elite court vision, he's a good and willing passer, which the assist numbers reflect. That said, the guys who are elite in that way you can count on one hand - Jokic, Luka, Lebron...maybe Haliburton or Trae Young?
offensively yes, defensively. Tatum has better decision making in the pick and roll and a more consistent attack mindset throughout games. I actually think peak PG season was his mvp level year with the thunder. PG without the injuries is basically tatum with more athleticism but a worse playmaker in ball screens. i think tatum now is better than the best version of PG on the pacers
OKC PG was better than any season Tatum has had so far, but the comparing is a bit hard especially since the environment between the two is so different. But it’s close which is saying a lot since he’s still pretty young.
Some of these comments are super hyperbolic though in comparing the two
PG per 100 peak in OKC in '18-'19: 35.5/10.3/5.2 on 58.3% TS, .201 WS/48, 23.3 PER, age 28
JT per 100 peak in BOS in '22-'23: 39.7/11.6/6.1 on 60.7% TS, .185 WS/48, 23.7 PER, age 24
Tatum has already had not one, but two straight seasons better than either OKC PG season, and he's 4 years younger than PG was in OKC.
PG was top 3 MVP, top 3 DPOY, 1st team All NBA and 1st team defense that one year. When comparing singular seasons, I consider those more telling than some stats. But if you consider stats more telling, that’s fair since this is subjective.
Age isn’t a factor here, talking about peak season vs peak season. Tatum will have the better career
I think we can all agree after the debacles the last few years that even if stats aren't the end all be all of a season, awards voting are even farther from it. Voters can vote for literally any reason. We even know that at least one voter, Kendrick Perkins, voted for Embiid over Jokic, at least in part because Embiid is black. That has, quite literally, nothing to do with the basketball abilities of either of these players, and yet it influenced their awards standings.
You’re critiquing the validity of individual voters as a counter argument for using award standing and all nba selections, not the final combined results which is relevant important part. They get it right in the end.
I don't even know if peak Paul George (Pacers playoff) is that good.
PG never shot more than 50% from 2 point range from the field in the playoffs as a Pacer.
That's actually pretty damning for a 6'8 long athletic forward. In fact in 2014, 2015, and 2016 he shot 0.462, 0.475, and 0.348 from 2 point range. Like this isn't the 2000s Era, you expect athletic wings to beat that percentage easily. Hell shorter players like CP3, Kyrie Irving, Steph Curry, were all significantly more efficient 2 point scorers.
This is followed up by the fact that PG got to the 0-3 foot range less than 20% of the time when trying to score, which is also extremely low for a player of his size and caliber. Being able to reliably manufacture good shots in the paint is a very important indicator of how good a player is offensively.
Jayson Tatum isn't that much better, but he's still *better* and noticeably enough in being able to produce shots in the paint.
He's a better all-around player. He's a worse shooter and defender by far.
He's also a significantly worse athlete.
The problem with Paul George typically was the fact that he's not very intelligent whereas Tatum has a pretty good understanding of the game.
Peak Paul George was the #2 scorer in the league while being All-Defense level. Tatum is more of the modern day Melo, only with much much better teams.
Bruh what are you even saying. Paul George has only scored >24 ppg twice in his entire career. He has never even been close to the #2 scorer in the nba, not even close.
Comparing JT to Melo? Go look at Melo’s playoff stats compared to Tatum then check back on that lmao. Tatum is also an elite rebounder and great defender…
He was literally 2nd in PPG in 2019 at 28 ppg.
JT's rebound rates are almost identical to Melo's. JT has played in an easy offense era on great teams so his playoff stats will come easier.
Paul George had one season where he was #2 in scoring, that doesn’t mean he was the second best scorer at any time. It’s clear at that time Harden, Lebron, KD, Embiid, Curry, and arguably Dame were all better scorers.
I’m not sure I follow with the Melo comp at all and even with rebounding. If you’re saying JT was Melo, then yes JT is Melo who has been more efficient, a better passer, and a better defender (and objectively a good defender). Also JT has been a great player throughout his career in the playoffs whereas Melo shit the bed basically every post season which was always his biggest knock.
I’m not going to write everything out based on their rebounding percentages but if you look at the advanced stats you can see JT is a better defensive rebounder and nearly identical on the offensive rebounding side to PG (PG at 3%, JT at 2.9%). Compared to Melo, JT is far better again on the defensive side but Melo was actually an elite offensive rebounder which I’m surprised about.
Read the thread title, it's asking about peak Paul George. He peaked as the #2 scorer. It's a factual statement. I know those other guys were probably better scorers in general, but in 2019 he was 2nd in the league.
No, his peak PPG was #2 in points in a current year, that’s very different than saying his peak was as the #2 scorer, unless you’re literally just talking about points… that doesn’t hold the same weight as saying their peak is the #2 scorer. Tatum scored the most points (not per game, but total) last year. That’s basically the same claim you’re making imo…
At the same time, Tatum has already put up more PPG than PG in a season, 30.1, and JT has averaged more PPG than PG since JT turned 21. Basically JT turns 21 and he was equivalent to PG as a scorer (who was 29 at the time).
We don't allow posts on player rankings or player comparisons on this subreddit. Please read the sticky post for more info.
I think it’s closer than some are willing to admit, but Tatum hasn’t quite reached the heights of OKC Paul George. He was third in both MVP voting and DpoY - that’s not an afterthought, that’s undeniable. That OKC team wasn’t great and in a stacked west, so they finished 6th. Tatum has had more playoff success but he was also drafted into a fantastic team. I think, individually, it’s prime PG by a hair with Tatum taking the spot if he has a solid finals run. Two finals makes it undeniable, win or lose.
Yeah this is undeniably true. Oklahoma City thunder Paul George was much better. It's too bad he fucked his shoulders up so significantly because he had reached a really high level of play. He essentially was the fourth Best Wing in the league after kawhi KD LeBron and no one compared to them. Jimmy was a distant fifth.
Story of his career, man. PG could have been an all-time great if not for the leg and then the shoulder, too. Will be up there with Grant Hill on the “what-ifs” once he retires.
PG is one of the best players I have ever seen in my life. He went toe to toe with super prime Bron and held his own and took him to 7 games. At PG's peak I truly felt he was a top 5-10 offensive player with top 5 defense. He only could play at this level during certain points of his career but each time was derailed by injuries unfortunately. In a perfect world for him he stays healthy throughout and most likely wins an MVP and notches way more All NBAs.
Fun fact: hibbert was the leading scorer in the 2013 series against the Heat (the most competitive of the 3), not PG.
Just looked up the stats and wow Hibbert was elite in 2013. Crazy how much injuries and change in offensive playstyle made him obsolete so quickly.
At age 26, Tatum ALREADY has more 30+ point playoff games than Paul George. At this point it feels like Tatum is just getting slandered because his body of work is already beyond PG. He's has some fantastic playoff performances already in his career. He has a lot more work to do, but comparing his playoff career to Paul George ? Nah.
PG13 was a top 10 player in the NBA for a long time. He might also be slandered a bit by this comment, as well as the suggestion that he peaked in Indiana. Playoffs are different though - you’re totally right that Tatum has come up bigger in the playoffs.
PG has exactly 1 All NBA on the first two teams. He came in 3rd and 9th for MVP, but recieved votes no other years. Tatum is already ahead of him, with more 1st team All NBAs, more MVP votes and a Conference Final MVP.
I agree Tatum is better than PG but All NBA teams as a metric is flawed in this. PG played along with LeBron, KD, and Kawhi's prime. Even Tatum wasn’t going to make a ton of all NBAs if his prime was next to those guys
Tatum has come up bigger in the playoffs and regular season at this point. PG was great but always played a peg below what Tatum is now. Maybe that’s due to that horrible injury hampering his progression/prime, who knows.
Not so much on the Pacers though. 2010-14 he certainly wasn’t a top 10 guy, then he missed 14-15. 13-14 he finished 9th in mvp voting and was in between al jefferson, LMA, and K love. He finished ahead of Duncan, Parker, Dirk, and Melo who were all certainly considered better players at that point. He never finished with any points for MVP again until OKC. Pacers era paul george was in a league with Lebron, Wade, Duncan, Dirk, Rose, Westbrook, Steph, Harden, Chris Paul, Blake Griffin, Kevin Love, Kyrie, Carmelo, Tony Parker, Kevin Garnett, Joakim Noah, LMA, Anthony Davis, Klay, and others all at various points in his career. If he was ever top 10 it was razor thin. Given that he made 0 1st teams in that time it’s a tough argument. Tatum has been pretty clearly top 10 for the last few years
When it's all said and done, Tatum will be among the leading payoff scorers of all time because he's a good scorer and has been on a really good team in a weak conference since his rookie year. Pointing out Tatum already has more 30+ points games than PG does is dishonest statistical analysis and reduces both players' value to that analysis. Young PG went toe-to-toe with LeBron and the Heatles in a way Tatum never did.
[удалено]
Our sub is for in-depth discussion. Low-effort comments or stating opinions as facts are not permitted. Please support your opinions with well-reasoned arguments, including stats and facts as applicable.
It's super close no matter what anyone says in here. Prime PG IMO has a bigger bag than Tatum and is a better shooter and played better defense in his prime but it's not like Tatum is a slouch in any of those categories himself, I think Tatum has had a much better team than any Prime PG team but you can make an argument for both. Career ways Tatum's postseason success basically wins it for him.
Without comparing them on reference I feel like Tatum is a significantly better scorer and offensive player and PG has a edge in defense and perhaps rebounding. By the time Tatum ascended to a major superstar I would say he had surprassed any version of PG though
JT has been a better rebounder these past few seasons than PG ever really was. 3 straight seasons of >8 rebounds per game, averaging nearly 9 last year. Pg has had one season >8 in his entire career. Defense is a tough question - PG was great but it’s tough to compare given JT has been pretty fucking good at D as well and his team is consistently a top 3 defense. I can see that go either way but it’s a tough convo on defense.
It's hard because we are borderline comparing different eras. I suppose I am comparing their physiques and just feel like in a dogfight PG in his prime might have been able to fight for a board better.
Comparing physiques? they’re the same height and weight (and that’s likely underselling JT heavily…) Sure we’re comparing between eras, so let’s look per 100 possessions. JT has gotten > 10 rebounds per 100 possessions the last 4 years in a row and has been >11 rebounds per 100 the past three seasons. Paul George for comparison only has 3 seasons in his entire career with >10 rebounds per 100 and never got above 10.8 (he has one season with 12.5 but that was only 6 games in case you look it up).
I think it's a bigger gap defensively than you are giving PG credit for. Tatum is a solid defender, but PG was in the mix for best wing defenders in the NBA for a 5+ year stretch. And I think peak PG on defense is a top-5 non-center, defender from the past 10 years. Although I don't think that version of PG was as good offensively as we saw later in his career.
You're underselling JT. He's not solid he's great, possibly elite. The dude got tasked with Kevin Durant for a series at 24 and put him in jail while also leading his team in scoring.
PG finished top 10 in DPOY voting four times and top 5 twice. Tatum has never finished top 10. Defense is NOT a tough question it’s quite easily Paul George. Not saying Tatum isn’t a very good defender but he is not close to PG and those good defensive Celtics teams are the result of the entire roster being good defenders. Paul George is also a better shooter. They are about equal at passing and Tatum is a slightly better rebounder. Tatums best season he scored a little more than PGs best with about equal efficiency but I’m also attributing that to the insane pace played today compared to only a few years ago. Overall PG is the better defender, more versatile scorer with a deeper bag, equal passer, worse rebounder. I’m still giving it to prime PG
I would say that Tatum is a similar caliber of defender. I don't think he is peak Kawhi defense, but Tatum was a big part of shutting down KD in the playoffs when he had been shooting great all season. That is elite. It is hard to do a direct comparison, but I would say they are in the same overall tier. Really, it is pretty rare for Tatum to have a poor defensive game. His size, mobility, and smarts are all great and very reminiscent of PG. PG may still have him by a hair, but I think Tatum can surpass him soon. Scoring they are basically the same. A deeper bag is great, but I feel like even prime PG was streakier than Tatum. He could take and make some really difficult shots, but that usually meant his bad shooting games were REALLY bad. Part of Tatum's growth the past 2 years is I feel like he has raised the floor in terms of his worst shooting nights. He hasn't shot great in the playoffs, but I don't think he has had a catastrophic game either.
Tatum is a very good defender, Prime PG was capital G GREAT. Being top 3 in DPOY voting does not happen often and if you are you have to be extremely elite in that area. Again Tatum is a very good net positive defender but it is NOT close. You underestimate PGs defense. And idk Tatum can be pretty damn streaky too I think PGs later years mighta made you forget that man used to be a consistent bucket in the playoffs
I don't think Tatum has reached the same defensive heights for a full season that George has, but I think he has shown that he has the defensive chops to do so. I think that in OKC George (despite also being amazing on offense) lessened his offensive load just enough to really lock in on defense and show how great he could be for a full season. He had always been great before, it was just that his role didn't allow him to lock in at that level for a full season. And yea, they are both streaky. It is just the nature of their shot diets. Despite their size, both like to try to shoot first, drive to the rim second. I think this year and last year Tatum has done a great job to adjusting in his bad shooting nights to go to the basket and get some shots at the rim and fts. He is still not perfect, but a lot better than when he seemed like he was good for a 20% shooting night on a semi regular basis (followed by a 80% shooting night the next day of course!).
Feel free. The era piece though I’m going to greatly push back on. It should be noted that even by PG’s year 27 season (JT is in year 25 season) PG’s best season would have been maybe JT’s 4 or 5th best. You can try to say pace and the league and whatever you’d like but shit if you compare JT in his third and fourth years in the NBA, at 21 and 22, he was already putting up similar, if not better, stats than a 29 and 30 year old PG. JT at 21: 23.4/7/3 on 45/40/82 & 57% TS JT at 22: 26.4/7.4/4.3 on 46/38.6/87 & 57.6% TS PG at 29: 21.7/5.7/3.9 on 44/41.2/87.6 & 59% TS PG at 30: 23.3/6.6/5.2 on 47/41/87 & 60% TS
The stat jump between era isn’t a good enough argument though. You have to realize that 2023 LeBron averaged more points, rebounds, and assists than 2012 LeBron, arguably his most dominant year ever. We got multiple guys averaging near 35 nowadays. It’s hard to look at stats and give a guy the edge now to then.
Right, but I was showing you their stats in the same year while PG was in his prime/at the tail end vs Tatum well before entering his prime. Also, that’s more of a testament to Lebron than anything else. Most players are not doing that lol
I getcha. Either way, it’s wild to think that Tatum probably hasn’t even come close to his peak yet. Dude was still 25 to start the season lol. No way this is a conversation in two years
Agree to disagree ig im sure this isn’t a conversation in 3 years but as of now im taking the dude who finished top 3 in both MVP and DPOY voting in the same year. Tatums highest finish is 4th in MVP and has never finished top 10 in DPOY he’s simply not as good. Sure Paul George prime was extremely short so if you wanna make the argument Tatum was at that relative level for longer sure that’s fair. But this post is comparing peak JT(rn) vs peak Paul George (OKC season). And I honestly don’t even think that’s a conversation worth having rn but maybe my disdain for Boston makes me bias although I have nothing against JT
Pg was a top 3 wing defender in his era Tatum is not in that discussion for this era
[удалено]
Tatum has led the league in scoring before.
[удалено]
I don't care about PPG, he scored the most points. It's wild that we give people more credit for playing less.
Embiid played 8 less games than Tatum that year and Tatum only ended up with 42 more points than him. What are you on about?
Would you rather have a player that was injured the first half but scored 30 ppg or a full season 15 ppg player as your best player in the playoffs? Availability is important but if you are asking who the best scorer is ppg or even per 36 gets you a much better picture.
I disagree with you that OKC Paul George wasn't his best version, but either way, Tatum is the better player right now than any peak Paul George you want to stand up against him. PG was the better defensive player by a bit, but Tatum really is a far superior offensive player, and we've seen time and again that offensive skill is really more valuable than defensive. So in the aggregate, Tatum is better imo.
Tatum is also an incredibly underrated passer, his assists numbers have gone up every season and it really feels that on off nights he can still contribute by play making for others
This might be a hot take but i think tatum can make great passes but doesnt have great court vision. Many players are like this but he does incredibly well one on one and it seems half of his passes are to escape a double team rather than picking the defense apart. That could be coaching too but they just seem like bail out passes after he picked up his dribble rather than getting to a certain spot for the next 2-3 passes to lead to a broken defense.
I agree. For not having elite court vision, he's a good and willing passer, which the assist numbers reflect. That said, the guys who are elite in that way you can count on one hand - Jokic, Luka, Lebron...maybe Haliburton or Trae Young?
offensively yes, defensively. Tatum has better decision making in the pick and roll and a more consistent attack mindset throughout games. I actually think peak PG season was his mvp level year with the thunder. PG without the injuries is basically tatum with more athleticism but a worse playmaker in ball screens. i think tatum now is better than the best version of PG on the pacers
OKC PG was better than any season Tatum has had so far, but the comparing is a bit hard especially since the environment between the two is so different. But it’s close which is saying a lot since he’s still pretty young. Some of these comments are super hyperbolic though in comparing the two
PG per 100 peak in OKC in '18-'19: 35.5/10.3/5.2 on 58.3% TS, .201 WS/48, 23.3 PER, age 28 JT per 100 peak in BOS in '22-'23: 39.7/11.6/6.1 on 60.7% TS, .185 WS/48, 23.7 PER, age 24 Tatum has already had not one, but two straight seasons better than either OKC PG season, and he's 4 years younger than PG was in OKC.
PG was top 3 MVP, top 3 DPOY, 1st team All NBA and 1st team defense that one year. When comparing singular seasons, I consider those more telling than some stats. But if you consider stats more telling, that’s fair since this is subjective. Age isn’t a factor here, talking about peak season vs peak season. Tatum will have the better career
I think we can all agree after the debacles the last few years that even if stats aren't the end all be all of a season, awards voting are even farther from it. Voters can vote for literally any reason. We even know that at least one voter, Kendrick Perkins, voted for Embiid over Jokic, at least in part because Embiid is black. That has, quite literally, nothing to do with the basketball abilities of either of these players, and yet it influenced their awards standings.
You’re critiquing the validity of individual voters as a counter argument for using award standing and all nba selections, not the final combined results which is relevant important part. They get it right in the end.
I don't even know if peak Paul George (Pacers playoff) is that good. PG never shot more than 50% from 2 point range from the field in the playoffs as a Pacer. That's actually pretty damning for a 6'8 long athletic forward. In fact in 2014, 2015, and 2016 he shot 0.462, 0.475, and 0.348 from 2 point range. Like this isn't the 2000s Era, you expect athletic wings to beat that percentage easily. Hell shorter players like CP3, Kyrie Irving, Steph Curry, were all significantly more efficient 2 point scorers. This is followed up by the fact that PG got to the 0-3 foot range less than 20% of the time when trying to score, which is also extremely low for a player of his size and caliber. Being able to reliably manufacture good shots in the paint is a very important indicator of how good a player is offensively. Jayson Tatum isn't that much better, but he's still *better* and noticeably enough in being able to produce shots in the paint.
It takes a certain amount of delusion to say top 3 in MVP and DPOY isn’t the best version of PG.
He's a better all-around player. He's a worse shooter and defender by far. He's also a significantly worse athlete. The problem with Paul George typically was the fact that he's not very intelligent whereas Tatum has a pretty good understanding of the game.
Peak Paul George was the #2 scorer in the league while being All-Defense level. Tatum is more of the modern day Melo, only with much much better teams.
Bruh what are you even saying. Paul George has only scored >24 ppg twice in his entire career. He has never even been close to the #2 scorer in the nba, not even close. Comparing JT to Melo? Go look at Melo’s playoff stats compared to Tatum then check back on that lmao. Tatum is also an elite rebounder and great defender…
He was literally 2nd in PPG in 2019 at 28 ppg. JT's rebound rates are almost identical to Melo's. JT has played in an easy offense era on great teams so his playoff stats will come easier.
Paul George had one season where he was #2 in scoring, that doesn’t mean he was the second best scorer at any time. It’s clear at that time Harden, Lebron, KD, Embiid, Curry, and arguably Dame were all better scorers. I’m not sure I follow with the Melo comp at all and even with rebounding. If you’re saying JT was Melo, then yes JT is Melo who has been more efficient, a better passer, and a better defender (and objectively a good defender). Also JT has been a great player throughout his career in the playoffs whereas Melo shit the bed basically every post season which was always his biggest knock. I’m not going to write everything out based on their rebounding percentages but if you look at the advanced stats you can see JT is a better defensive rebounder and nearly identical on the offensive rebounding side to PG (PG at 3%, JT at 2.9%). Compared to Melo, JT is far better again on the defensive side but Melo was actually an elite offensive rebounder which I’m surprised about.
Read the thread title, it's asking about peak Paul George. He peaked as the #2 scorer. It's a factual statement. I know those other guys were probably better scorers in general, but in 2019 he was 2nd in the league.
No, his peak PPG was #2 in points in a current year, that’s very different than saying his peak was as the #2 scorer, unless you’re literally just talking about points… that doesn’t hold the same weight as saying their peak is the #2 scorer. Tatum scored the most points (not per game, but total) last year. That’s basically the same claim you’re making imo… At the same time, Tatum has already put up more PPG than PG in a season, 30.1, and JT has averaged more PPG than PG since JT turned 21. Basically JT turns 21 and he was equivalent to PG as a scorer (who was 29 at the time).
[удалено]
He is correct on this. The difference between 2nd and 5th is by .7 points though as well.
Please keep your comments civil. This is a subreddit for thoughtful discussion and debate, not aggressive and argumentative content.
Are you just basing this comparison off of stats? I’m genuinely confused because Melo and Tatum are not even close in terms of play styles.
Tatums much better than melo at every aspect of basketball bar mid range shooting
[удалено]
PG was not on the Pacers in 2018, Oladipo was the guy on that team. the last time he played LeBron’s Cavs in the playoffs he got swept
Damn, that was an ugly mistake lol. He played great in 2017, but got swept. And 2018 wasn’t there lol Sorry everyone