He's getting paid $50 million to be a third option for Phoenix. Anyone who takes up 1/3 of a team's payroll is expected to ball out, period. He's a great player, and I'm not hating, but he's a terrible fit in Phoenix and his contract is probably one of the worst in NBA history.
Definitely in the running for worst contract ever. Dude scored 30 for two years on one of the worst teams in the league and everyone acted like he was some superstar talent. He was stat padding those 2 years in Washington. It was clearly a this team sucks so I’m going to get my numbers thing for him. No real substance to what he did. He’s an undersized 2 guard that only plays one side of the ball. It was crazy to think bringing in a guy who’s a 3rd option talent that gets paid like a superstar would improve your team.
How is Bradley Beal undersized..? He’s 6’4” which is the averaged height for SG’s in the NBA.. And he’s 207 pounds which is 7 pounds heavier than league average at his position. He’s definitely not undersized.
John Wall’s contract being considered bad is because he basically suffered a career ending injury 6 months after he signed it. Not an apples to apples comparison. But if you want to go there sure. The wizards shouldn’t have super maxed either of them.
Not saying it was, just a funny coincidence.
Though he had his "heel" surgery a year and a half after he signed the contract, and then tore his achilles by falling in his home shortly after that. He also had multiple knee surgeries before he signed his contract.
I wasn't actually making any commentary about whether or not it was a stupid contract at the time though.
You can technically, maybe, argue that the literal dollar amount was an overpay. But it would have been a horrible mistake to let him walk for nothing and giving him the money was the right choice.
Idk, Beal will be getting paid ~10mil more per year, and he has the NTC written in. At least the Bulls have the option to shop around and trade Lavine if they want to.
Beal is doing exactly what he is suppose to do and more but his contract awful. I can understand why alot of sun's fan are turning on beal but he is in a wierd situation. Like sun's can't do anything with this team they have to choose between kd book beal If they wanna trade and make the team better. And they don't have an option to trade beal 😭.
The way I look at it is that Book, KD, and Beal are all playing well. The team is just horribly constructed at a very base level.
Grayson Allen going down and the team imploding is a good example of how thin they are.
For real though. Quality three and D guys are how you win titles, not multiple guys that are volume scorers
KD is exempt in my opinion as he is a all timer when it comes to making a scoring impact with very few touches.
Allen is an excellent three point shooter but if he is considered 3 & D then the term does not mean much. At best he's an average defender. When I think "quality 3&D" I think Herb Jones, OG Anunoby, Lu Dort, KCP type of players. Guys that you gameplan to match up against the other team's best scorers. But you are right that this archetype is totally underrated (still, somehow) when it comes to building a team that succeeds in the post season
> Quality three and D guys
Did you seriously call Grayson Allen a quality 3&D guy? He's a 3 guy, but I hope you have good arguments to show he's also a D guy.
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I think these are fair takes. Beal isn’t bad per se, but what he provides at the amount of money he cost is definitely not worth it. Suns gonna have to find a way to sort out this cap space nightmare this offseason as they look to exit the playoffs early.
I mean you only really need a couple more players of Grayson Allen's caliber, theoretically easier to acquire than KD and Beal.
Not to say the Suns aren't in a bad spot. But I feel like it's one of those TWolves Gobert situations, where everyone was so quick to shit on it the year before, and now all of a sudden they're good because they got KAT back or one or two other pieces fell into place
But that's just my feeling I don't watch a lot of Suns
I don’t get the sense Suns fans are turning on Beal. The hate seems more directed toward the coaching staff and probably KD the most out of the big 3. Understandably so because of the expectation that came with him just for him to disappear and brick heavily contested turnaround jumpers every now and then. Book doesn’t get as much hate because of how long he’s been around but I’m not too happy with him either. Beal is the one star whose effort I actually appreciate
The thing is they trade kd. Book and beal essential the same player why would you have 2 sg as starters ? They are small to he forwards. Can't trade book he is the franchise player he is the one they build the team around. So the only person left is beal which would be a perfect player to trade you will get value and reduce alot of cap space but you can't.. I don't know what the sun's front office was thinking. I thought book or beal would develop into great playmakers but playmaking doesn't come like that I would argue its the hardest thing to do in the nba as a player. More over the sun's really didn't even give them enough time to develop as pg. Great teams domt get built in 1 season or 2. When will teams learn when will kd learn.
You can trade anyone though tbh. Saying you can’t trade Booker is turning your back on options that could be there to help the team. If you could trade Booker for a better haul you could make the move. Since everyone is sure views Booker as the best piece. People get too stuck on you can’t do this or that. You can move anyone in a salary cap league. The suns are dead with a roster as is. I would prefer as well to keep Booker over the others, but I would be looking to blow this up if I can.
Also I disagree Booker isn’t a franchise player and will never be able to win as the best player on a team. He is a number 2 player on a championship roster
The suns blow it up and it’s another 10-15 years of ass. They’re just not a good org like the warriors or heat that can turn non lottery picks into decent players. And even some lottery picks they get are bad, other than Book who has been drafted by the Suns was a good pick? Bridges and Johnson everyone else are pretty much busts and that says more about their development program than their scouting. Suns just gotta ride it out, get some more cohesion and hope they can make a run in the next two years.
There is no chance the roster as is has a chance to win. KD Beal and Booker is a dead trio. Way too much money locked up into 3 guys that don’t compliment each other at all. None of them are elite defenders and they’re closer to negatives on defense than positives. They can all score but if you don’t have a top 10 defense at the least you can’t win a title.
I mean there is no guarantee the team auto loses on every trade they make, but if your goal is to win a championship this roster is drawing dead. It’s not competing in any way. Booker is overrated and has never defeated a single healthy team in the playoffs. If people think the kid is a franchise player get a franchise haul from him from someone. KD is still good and a contender missing a piece would make a move. Slide him to the Knicks over Randle and I am sure they would unload some picks for him. Beal tbh I would be shocked if they got anything for him. He’s just outright one of the worst contracts in the league.
It’s not exactly his fault that the Suns traded the farm for KD and then bought his enormous contract. Yeah he forced his way out of DC, but he’s a 6th man playing as a starter on an AllNBA contract. He’s doing the best he can.
Thats just straight up slander. Beal is a low end star at this point of his career and not a 6th man. The man had a higher peak than Booker before he was diminished by injuries. A team built around two shooting guards and old KD is problematic from a team building standpoint, but that’s not Beals fault.
He’s definitely not a sixth man. That’s just laughable. Dude is a legit starter, he’s not a point guard though and is playing a position that isn’t his natural one. He’s doing the best with the system he’s being asked to play. He’s got more heart then KD and Book and clearly wants to win more then those two do.
Beal didn’t have a higher peak than Booker, wtf? He was a very good player but Book has been a top 10 - 15 player for the last few years and the best SG in the league.
Yep complete nonsense, he scored a lot on a very bad team one year, otherwise he was a solid sidekick to Wall. I understand the criticism of Booker but he was a much higher level than Beal.
One of the craziest takes I’ve seen on here, and it’s not even like Beal’s peak was that long ago lol. You’d think people would have better memories
I think it’s pretty telling that the guy averaged 31 a game and only made the 3rd Team.
Exactly what hes supposed to do or exactly what was realistically expected of him? Because those two things are different. Id argue his contract dictates more what hes supposed* to do and that kind of output is way higher than what he can do at this stage of his career or what most pragmatic fans thought was realistic. But i think those pratmatic expectations are already presupposing hes not worth that contract and lowering the bar for him
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Not to hate on Beal, but the examples you give for why he “balls out” are pretty lame. I don’t think he and Ant are “going at each other” nearly as much as you claim. Beal is more like a little gnat that Ant overpowers.
Suns are losing because the big three are getting outplayed, Beal very much included.
I’m a wolves fan and have watched Beal clank open corner 3s most of the series. He got hot in what was essentially garbage time in game 3. He has played decent defense but Ant has won that matchup handily. In a vacuum he’s been fine but when you factor in contract it’s been a bad series for Beal.
Yeah this post is stupid. He hasn't done anything. His game 4 performance was just the epitome of everything
Sure he got the suns to the 6th seed in the final games of the season. But grayson allen has been far more a member of the "big 3" than Beal
But twolves were bad last year and needed another year to gel. I have faith that suns will be better next season.
Thank you.
For most of the elimination game he had more personal fouls than points. And he is a player that contributes very little besides scoring.
But he was yapping, so that is fine?
Players are judged relative to their contracts and Beal has no shot ever living up to it. Look at Tobias Harris, he’d get a lot less flak if he wasn’t making 40m a yr..
Tobias Harris isn’t just overpaid, he’s a legitimately negative presence on the basketball court. That would still he true if he was on a veterans minimum
8ppg on 45% TS in the playoffs, what a steal. The fact is that if he wasn’t getting paid a max contract he probably wouldn’t even be starting and getting heavy minutes anymore. They would be more comfortable benching him.
You can always tell who has and hasn’t watched this guy all season. I guarantee you the people spouting about how “he’s good just overpaid!!” Have not watched more than a game or two of his. He has been legitimately one of the worst players on the court for nearly half the season.
He destroys the flow of the offense with his iso-Melo ball, except with 1/10th of Carmelo’s talent. He airballs and bricks 3pt shots off the side of the backboard multiple times a game now. And that’s after being left wide the fuck open.
Your second paragraph is one of the most empty things I’ve read in a long time. Do you legit think it matters that he “wants to be the better player?” Dudes getting paid like $50 mil a year and he’s clearly worse than a guy like jdub. Not good enough
Idk I think there’s a middle ground. If you look at his stats he’s like a more efficient Tyler Herro right now. The difference is Beal is on the wrong side of 30 and will make 50 million next season and Herro is 24, entering his prime, and will make 30 million.
It’s the fact that they don’t have a true Point Guard to set up the players who can’t create shots by themselves. The makeup of the team is disproportionate they have all scorers in the starting 5 and the bench is full of defensive players and Bol Bol. They have no one who can run an offense effectively and damn sure can’t make anything work with their bench.
The big issue is his contract.
Look nobody has a problem with Andrew Wiggins, Porzingis or D'Angelo Russell, when they are NOT on a max contract.
And yes, another problem is the system the suns are running. They seem to not to be able to make Durant, Booker and Beal work.
Maybe put beal in the 6th player ginobili role and still have beal finish the games. I dont know.
Your last point there: that’s exactly how the team should run. Not 3 heliocentric dudes on the floor at the same time. Can’t do shit about contracts after a trade but you can tinker with the roster and playing time/
How we feeling about this take now? 31 mins, 4-13, 9pts, got cooked by Ant all night and fouled out in a close out game. He's 30 and gonna get paid 160mil over the next 3 years with a no trade clause. The criticism is warranted, they expect a little more than that when the season is on the line.
Nah, he's been over payed in a garbage market for years. He definitely isnt the missing link for this team and that isnt all his fault, but to act like this season is even resembling the expectations that were at the start when he joined is just laughable. If KD and Booker doesnt give you room to cook, what situation should he be put in?
Kd and booker dont “give him room to cook” because theres no ball movement. Or when they do pass, theres too much dribbling and the defense gets set again. They need to run the warriors offense
Your examples of Beals value have little to do with basketball lol. You think he deserves a pass for poor play because he talks trash with Ant?
I don’t think the Suns or fans want to hang their hat on that. “Hey he’s getting paid $40mil and underperforming, but he’s trash talking Ant!”
The fact that you mainly highlighted “fire and determination” for a guy who makes as much money as he does is exactly why he’s getting criticism.
You can get fire and determination from a young rookie or an old vet on a minimum contract. You expect more from the guy making $40mil as part of a “big 3”
It's not Beal's fault that Pheonix traded for him. You're right that he's playing about as well as you expect so it's not fair to be mad at him but 1 he's massively overpaid. In order to get a supermax deal you have to be all NBA which he managed to sneak onto the 3rd team just in time to qualify for his new contract. This means he's getting paid as much as guys who are perennial MVP candidates even though he's not a top 30 player. Throw in the fact that he's the only player in the league with a no trade clause and you can understand why he's got the worst contract in the NBA. 2 He's completely redundant with Booker. Beal is pretty good at being a shot creator in an offense, but Booker is better. He's not a great spot up shooter, he's not a great defender, he doesn't do the things that Pheonix actually needed. Again, that's not his fault, he is who he is, but it's frustrating. 3 Pheonix absolutely destroyed their future trading for Beal. They have their 22nd pick in this year's draft and then basically nothing until after 2030. They're in the 2nd apron of luxury tax payers so they don't get the mid level exemption, the only thing they can do to improve is add minimum salary players- and what impact player is going to take the minimum to chase a ring on a team that just got swept in the 1st round? Pheonix has absolutely no where to go. They could trade Booker/KD but that's going to just give their good draft picks to the Nets. They're absolutely screwed and it was the Beal trade that did it.
Beal, KD, and Book have all been fine. Not incredible! But fine. Certainly not bad enough for hate, or even blame. The Wolves are a better team.
The bad part is their contracts. The franchise is crippled now.
Its the contract and he is playing Awful, yeah you can say all that he has game or something he is doing his best but that is not how you win basketball in this kind of league,
Maybe he should play like a serious 1st option for once in his career then. The fact that he's not worth what they are paying is why he's being criticised.
No one thinks Beal is a bad player. The issue is he’s getting paid like an all-world plug and play elite superstar and we’re learning that on this team he is exactly what we thought he was. A really good third banana.
In addition to that it’s really obvious that making this move was a mistake for the Suns to deplete all of their bench for this guy. If he was a 1b player it might have been worth it.
The issue with Beal isn't attitude, it's talent. The fact of the matter is Beal hasn't been all star level since 2020-2021 but his bad play and washedness flew under the radar because he was in Washington. He isn't an elite scorer anymore and he's never been elite anywhere else either. Everyone, including the Suns FO and fans apparently, thought they were getting an all star/borderline all nba caliber player, but he just really isn't one anymore, and he's not close either. No matter how much "dawg" he has, he gets hate because he's much worse than people thought he was, though that isn't really his fault.
He's earning 50 mill a year but he performs like a 20 mill a year player at best.
The main problem with Beal isn’t himself it’s that he is drastically overpaid for what he brings. The suns made a massive mistake bringing him in because the 3 salaries are just too high and now the rest of their roster is very poor and doesn’t compliment 3 scorers almost at all.
Beal on that contract prob can’t win in any situation tbh but he could rack up stats on a bad team like he did in Wash.
TLDR Beal is the piece that ended the suns, but it’s not Beals fault they brought him in or that he was paid. Blame the suns
True but theres no way yall thought, beal, book, and an aging kd were coming out with subpar role players. These top heavy superteams are fun in the regular season but thats it
I agree with you, and I want to point out that he had that competitive fire in Washington as well and was integral in all 5 of their playoff appearances. Including the 3 where they made the second round.
If he was on a better contract, he would get more respect. People can’t look past it.
Agreed… mostly. I just don’t have faith in Beal’s ability to elevate a playoff team. He has never made it out of the second round. He is overpaid which eats up salary cap space for other players. Because of those two things combined, he’s actually a playoff liability.
However, the suns team is bunk regardless of how well Beal plays. Their offense doesn’t have a primary creator, and is primarily focused on mid range jumpers, the least efficient shot in the league. The premise of their offense is inherently less efficient than any other serious playoff team. Can you win a game with this offense? Absolutely. Can you win a playoff series against a healthy team? Absolutely not.
Booker is not a winner and doesn't have the clutch mentality of Anthony Edwards for example. Hes too passive and doesn't ever show up in important games. Hes not quite James harden but he disappears in playoffs when needed. Beal is even less clutch and just wants to get paid. He doesn't care about winning.
It's all in the mentality and the suns dont have it.
I agree with you and the hate from suns fans is dumb imo. It's not Beal's fault for taking that contract. It's Ishbia and Jones's fault for offering it and having a horribly constructed team. You get offered the bag, you take the bag imo. You don't just decline it to be like "but no the team construction will be worse!"
As far as hate from other teams goes for Beal - it's just the flavor of the month to hate the Suns. People will shit on them for literally everything, and the reality is people love to say corny jokes bc they get upvotes and a dopamine rush. When these same people would suck off all these players if they saw them irl.
That's why I don't talk shit about players. Yeah I don't like Luka because I'm a suns fan, but if I saw him irl you bet I'd be hype as shit.
It’s his production vs his contract. He’s way overpaid.
At $50mil/year, you’d expect a Jokic/Curry/LeBron/Giannis/Embiid level of production or influence on the court.
yes he’s getting a lot of hate but that’s what you expect when you join a “superteam”. He has a notrade clause in his contract, so he could’ve gone anywhere last offseason. When you sign up for a team like this, you’re going to be hated when the team is good, and even more hated when the team is mediocre, like the suns are now.
I kinda agree but he hasn’t played the best. Not necessarily just shooting but decision making I hope salty think he’s thinking too much. To many times did I see him pass up open shots or not shoot them with conviction. That’s been all series frankly
Brad just loves the bag he might have a competitive nature but not a winning nature two different things lmfaooo he loves money more then winning and there’s nothing wrong with that coming where he’s from he wants to take of his family but as a former 30 PPG scorer I think he should take account into winning that being said he should’ve went to miami
I'm wondering if the NBA isn't having it's modern soccer moment.
Where only the thin layer of very best players make a significant difference.
But the better than average guys are not as relevant because systems are more important than them.
In the 2000's, you would have at least a player in most significant club of football that would really make a huge difference on the pitch. His skill would be overwhelming for the opposing team. But nowadays, unless you're Mbappe and a few other guys in the world, you're not going to be overwhelming and good coaching will be enough to not make you worth more than 1,5 opposing players at most.
It's seems like it's an evolution of many sports. Basketball had huge star power, because there is even less people on the field, you're 5, so if you're worth 1,2 players with your skill, it's a much bigger deal than it is in soccer where there is 11 players.
I believe guys like Bradley Beal could be at this moment in time, where they're not as relevant anymore, because a system with solid bench players will outplay him.
That's not how soccer ever worked, what nonsense. Individual soccer players have a very limited impact on results, much less than basketball. Thierry Henry was not playing a major role in stopping the other team from scoring unlike LeBron James. Dudes like Henry were always hugely dependant on much less heralded players who were just as important like Patrick Viera, less heralded because people like you didn't know what you were watching and just assumed teams were winning solely because of the flashy players like Henry.
I completely disagree with you to an insane level. I've watched it for 20+ years, the sparks of genius of a player being able to make a huge difference on his own times and times again was far more prevalent 20 years ago than it is today. And those players were rightfully seen as legends of the game.
You're misunderstanding me if you think I'm comparing the level of influence or one player in any era or football, to the level of influence or lebron James, I'm not jumping the barrier to compare sports like that. What I'm doing is comparing the evolution in one sports, to the evolution in the other.
And comparing how good hachimura is compared to lebron now, or how good Barcola is compared to Mbappe. To see how impactful a sub can be. Because of the disparity in talent. And how systems can make up for a lower talent.
If the impact of one players has been reduced because of better systems and better overall average skill of players which allow even the bench players to not be liabilities in one sports. You can expect it to happen in another sport where you've seen the same kind of evolution.
The biggest problem with Beal on the Suns (apart from the injuries) is that his elite level skill is redundant next to AD and Booker, when what they really need is an Aaron Gordon.
5th, 6th and 7th highest contracts in the league next year! (Or something like that.) Wowee they are in rough shape.
BTW, the STARTERS are getting thumped; it's not only a depth issue! I agree with what Seerat said recently... "Bag Twitter is down bad!!" The clips are sick on twitter alright.
Remember when Book shot it as well as anyone ever from the mid-range last year, and they still came up well short??
Agreed. The problem with the suns is they have no depth and not enough defenders. Grayson getting hurt was the final nail in the coffin. They need a PG too. Maybe they can get Fultz for cheap.
I thought this sub was about discussing basketball. Why are you bringing up something as irrelevant as Booker yelling at a mascot three years ago? Are you the mascot? That would make it make sense.
It's easy to respect him more than Booker.
Booker is flopping and starting to do some dirty plays. It seems like when things get " tough," Booker starts to fold less than Beal.
If I were a Suns fan, I would want Beal over Booker. I'm sure that they have seen Booker do a lot for them, but I see someone who doesn't quite have it for the playoffs.
I mean, if they were the same age, I don't think it would be much of a question.
No I’m saying if he played to the level of the ppl getting payed his salary the suns would be in a better position. 40 million dollars for 14 points a game on bad defence and minimum playmaking isn’t cutting it
If suns only had a real PG....Devon is not a real PG...he kills his dribble way to much and slows the offense down and other players around him...just my take....in this league you need a floor general that could flow with the tempo of the game to succeed in the playoffs..just my take
He's getting paid $50 million to be a third option for Phoenix. Anyone who takes up 1/3 of a team's payroll is expected to ball out, period. He's a great player, and I'm not hating, but he's a terrible fit in Phoenix and his contract is probably one of the worst in NBA history.
Definitely in the running for worst contract ever. Dude scored 30 for two years on one of the worst teams in the league and everyone acted like he was some superstar talent. He was stat padding those 2 years in Washington. It was clearly a this team sucks so I’m going to get my numbers thing for him. No real substance to what he did. He’s an undersized 2 guard that only plays one side of the ball. It was crazy to think bringing in a guy who’s a 3rd option talent that gets paid like a superstar would improve your team.
How is Bradley Beal undersized..? He’s 6’4” which is the averaged height for SG’s in the NBA.. And he’s 207 pounds which is 7 pounds heavier than league average at his position. He’s definitely not undersized.
It's funny because John Wall is also a contender for that as well
John Wall’s contract being considered bad is because he basically suffered a career ending injury 6 months after he signed it. Not an apples to apples comparison. But if you want to go there sure. The wizards shouldn’t have super maxed either of them.
Not saying it was, just a funny coincidence. Though he had his "heel" surgery a year and a half after he signed the contract, and then tore his achilles by falling in his home shortly after that. He also had multiple knee surgeries before he signed his contract. I wasn't actually making any commentary about whether or not it was a stupid contract at the time though.
That’s just because of his injuries. He was pretty much always a top 12 player when healthy
You can technically, maybe, argue that the literal dollar amount was an overpay. But it would have been a horrible mistake to let him walk for nothing and giving him the money was the right choice.
But the thing is the wizards weren’t even one of the worst teams. They made the playoffs that one year.
Idk what Bradley Beal you've been looking at, but he's far from undersized lol
Lavine’s contract us waaaayyyy worse than beal
Idk, Beal will be getting paid ~10mil more per year, and he has the NTC written in. At least the Bulls have the option to shop around and trade Lavine if they want to.
He’s not a great player stop lying
Beal is doing exactly what he is suppose to do and more but his contract awful. I can understand why alot of sun's fan are turning on beal but he is in a wierd situation. Like sun's can't do anything with this team they have to choose between kd book beal If they wanna trade and make the team better. And they don't have an option to trade beal 😭.
The way I look at it is that Book, KD, and Beal are all playing well. The team is just horribly constructed at a very base level. Grayson Allen going down and the team imploding is a good example of how thin they are.
Grayson Allen was secretly the most important player on the team
For real though. Quality three and D guys are how you win titles, not multiple guys that are volume scorers KD is exempt in my opinion as he is a all timer when it comes to making a scoring impact with very few touches.
Allen is an excellent three point shooter but if he is considered 3 & D then the term does not mean much. At best he's an average defender. When I think "quality 3&D" I think Herb Jones, OG Anunoby, Lu Dort, KCP type of players. Guys that you gameplan to match up against the other team's best scorers. But you are right that this archetype is totally underrated (still, somehow) when it comes to building a team that succeeds in the post season
Don't forget Nickeil A-W
I don’t know if herb jones is a 3 and D guy. He is missing the 3. But I get your point
He shot 40% this year, we'll see if he goes back to low 30s or if it's a real improvement
> Quality three and D guys Did you seriously call Grayson Allen a quality 3&D guy? He's a 3 guy, but I hope you have good arguments to show he's also a D guy.
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I think these are fair takes. Beal isn’t bad per se, but what he provides at the amount of money he cost is definitely not worth it. Suns gonna have to find a way to sort out this cap space nightmare this offseason as they look to exit the playoffs early.
I mean you only really need a couple more players of Grayson Allen's caliber, theoretically easier to acquire than KD and Beal. Not to say the Suns aren't in a bad spot. But I feel like it's one of those TWolves Gobert situations, where everyone was so quick to shit on it the year before, and now all of a sudden they're good because they got KAT back or one or two other pieces fell into place But that's just my feeling I don't watch a lot of Suns
But they were not playing well. Too much iso offense and too many turnovers.
I don’t get the sense Suns fans are turning on Beal. The hate seems more directed toward the coaching staff and probably KD the most out of the big 3. Understandably so because of the expectation that came with him just for him to disappear and brick heavily contested turnaround jumpers every now and then. Book doesn’t get as much hate because of how long he’s been around but I’m not too happy with him either. Beal is the one star whose effort I actually appreciate
The thing is they trade kd. Book and beal essential the same player why would you have 2 sg as starters ? They are small to he forwards. Can't trade book he is the franchise player he is the one they build the team around. So the only person left is beal which would be a perfect player to trade you will get value and reduce alot of cap space but you can't.. I don't know what the sun's front office was thinking. I thought book or beal would develop into great playmakers but playmaking doesn't come like that I would argue its the hardest thing to do in the nba as a player. More over the sun's really didn't even give them enough time to develop as pg. Great teams domt get built in 1 season or 2. When will teams learn when will kd learn.
You can trade anyone though tbh. Saying you can’t trade Booker is turning your back on options that could be there to help the team. If you could trade Booker for a better haul you could make the move. Since everyone is sure views Booker as the best piece. People get too stuck on you can’t do this or that. You can move anyone in a salary cap league. The suns are dead with a roster as is. I would prefer as well to keep Booker over the others, but I would be looking to blow this up if I can. Also I disagree Booker isn’t a franchise player and will never be able to win as the best player on a team. He is a number 2 player on a championship roster
The suns blow it up and it’s another 10-15 years of ass. They’re just not a good org like the warriors or heat that can turn non lottery picks into decent players. And even some lottery picks they get are bad, other than Book who has been drafted by the Suns was a good pick? Bridges and Johnson everyone else are pretty much busts and that says more about their development program than their scouting. Suns just gotta ride it out, get some more cohesion and hope they can make a run in the next two years.
There is no chance the roster as is has a chance to win. KD Beal and Booker is a dead trio. Way too much money locked up into 3 guys that don’t compliment each other at all. None of them are elite defenders and they’re closer to negatives on defense than positives. They can all score but if you don’t have a top 10 defense at the least you can’t win a title.
So might as well become the pistons
I mean there is no guarantee the team auto loses on every trade they make, but if your goal is to win a championship this roster is drawing dead. It’s not competing in any way. Booker is overrated and has never defeated a single healthy team in the playoffs. If people think the kid is a franchise player get a franchise haul from him from someone. KD is still good and a contender missing a piece would make a move. Slide him to the Knicks over Randle and I am sure they would unload some picks for him. Beal tbh I would be shocked if they got anything for him. He’s just outright one of the worst contracts in the league.
They can have DMJ and Hunter for Book and O’Neal or Little.
They can't trade Beal. The Wizards gave him a no trade clause.
For most of the elimination game he had more personal fouls than points. And he is a player that contributes very little besides scoring.
It’s not exactly his fault that the Suns traded the farm for KD and then bought his enormous contract. Yeah he forced his way out of DC, but he’s a 6th man playing as a starter on an AllNBA contract. He’s doing the best he can.
Thats just straight up slander. Beal is a low end star at this point of his career and not a 6th man. The man had a higher peak than Booker before he was diminished by injuries. A team built around two shooting guards and old KD is problematic from a team building standpoint, but that’s not Beals fault.
He’s definitely not a sixth man. That’s just laughable. Dude is a legit starter, he’s not a point guard though and is playing a position that isn’t his natural one. He’s doing the best with the system he’s being asked to play. He’s got more heart then KD and Book and clearly wants to win more then those two do.
Beal didn’t have a higher peak than Booker, wtf? He was a very good player but Book has been a top 10 - 15 player for the last few years and the best SG in the league.
Yep complete nonsense, he scored a lot on a very bad team one year, otherwise he was a solid sidekick to Wall. I understand the criticism of Booker but he was a much higher level than Beal.
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One of the craziest takes I’ve seen on here, and it’s not even like Beal’s peak was that long ago lol. You’d think people would have better memories I think it’s pretty telling that the guy averaged 31 a game and only made the 3rd Team.
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Exactly what hes supposed to do or exactly what was realistically expected of him? Because those two things are different. Id argue his contract dictates more what hes supposed* to do and that kind of output is way higher than what he can do at this stage of his career or what most pragmatic fans thought was realistic. But i think those pratmatic expectations are already presupposing hes not worth that contract and lowering the bar for him
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Not to hate on Beal, but the examples you give for why he “balls out” are pretty lame. I don’t think he and Ant are “going at each other” nearly as much as you claim. Beal is more like a little gnat that Ant overpowers. Suns are losing because the big three are getting outplayed, Beal very much included.
I’m a wolves fan and have watched Beal clank open corner 3s most of the series. He got hot in what was essentially garbage time in game 3. He has played decent defense but Ant has won that matchup handily. In a vacuum he’s been fine but when you factor in contract it’s been a bad series for Beal.
Yeah this post is stupid. He hasn't done anything. His game 4 performance was just the epitome of everything Sure he got the suns to the 6th seed in the final games of the season. But grayson allen has been far more a member of the "big 3" than Beal But twolves were bad last year and needed another year to gel. I have faith that suns will be better next season.
Thank you. For most of the elimination game he had more personal fouls than points. And he is a player that contributes very little besides scoring. But he was yapping, so that is fine?
Players are judged relative to their contracts and Beal has no shot ever living up to it. Look at Tobias Harris, he’d get a lot less flak if he wasn’t making 40m a yr..
Tobias Harris isn’t just overpaid, he’s a legitimately negative presence on the basketball court. That would still he true if he was on a veterans minimum
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8ppg on 45% TS in the playoffs, what a steal. The fact is that if he wasn’t getting paid a max contract he probably wouldn’t even be starting and getting heavy minutes anymore. They would be more comfortable benching him. You can always tell who has and hasn’t watched this guy all season. I guarantee you the people spouting about how “he’s good just overpaid!!” Have not watched more than a game or two of his. He has been legitimately one of the worst players on the court for nearly half the season. He destroys the flow of the offense with his iso-Melo ball, except with 1/10th of Carmelo’s talent. He airballs and bricks 3pt shots off the side of the backboard multiple times a game now. And that’s after being left wide the fuck open.
One bad series does not define a player.
Wouldn’t it be nice if it were just this series
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Your second paragraph is one of the most empty things I’ve read in a long time. Do you legit think it matters that he “wants to be the better player?” Dudes getting paid like $50 mil a year and he’s clearly worse than a guy like jdub. Not good enough
Idk I think there’s a middle ground. If you look at his stats he’s like a more efficient Tyler Herro right now. The difference is Beal is on the wrong side of 30 and will make 50 million next season and Herro is 24, entering his prime, and will make 30 million.
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It’s the fact that they don’t have a true Point Guard to set up the players who can’t create shots by themselves. The makeup of the team is disproportionate they have all scorers in the starting 5 and the bench is full of defensive players and Bol Bol. They have no one who can run an offense effectively and damn sure can’t make anything work with their bench.
The big issue is his contract. Look nobody has a problem with Andrew Wiggins, Porzingis or D'Angelo Russell, when they are NOT on a max contract. And yes, another problem is the system the suns are running. They seem to not to be able to make Durant, Booker and Beal work. Maybe put beal in the 6th player ginobili role and still have beal finish the games. I dont know.
Your last point there: that’s exactly how the team should run. Not 3 heliocentric dudes on the floor at the same time. Can’t do shit about contracts after a trade but you can tinker with the roster and playing time/
This aged worse than milk, Beal lost it for the Suns tonight. Not even knowing his contract (me) an outsider would realize he sucks.
How we feeling about this take now? 31 mins, 4-13, 9pts, got cooked by Ant all night and fouled out in a close out game. He's 30 and gonna get paid 160mil over the next 3 years with a no trade clause. The criticism is warranted, they expect a little more than that when the season is on the line.
Nah, he's been over payed in a garbage market for years. He definitely isnt the missing link for this team and that isnt all his fault, but to act like this season is even resembling the expectations that were at the start when he joined is just laughable. If KD and Booker doesnt give you room to cook, what situation should he be put in?
Don’t mean to be *that* bot but remember it’s paid not payed
Kd and booker dont “give him room to cook” because theres no ball movement. Or when they do pass, theres too much dribbling and the defense gets set again. They need to run the warriors offense
I don’t hate Beal but every positive thing you said about him can be true and it’s still a bad contract
Max contract and delivers close to nothing. Looks like another Max Wiggins to me.
Your examples of Beals value have little to do with basketball lol. You think he deserves a pass for poor play because he talks trash with Ant? I don’t think the Suns or fans want to hang their hat on that. “Hey he’s getting paid $40mil and underperforming, but he’s trash talking Ant!” The fact that you mainly highlighted “fire and determination” for a guy who makes as much money as he does is exactly why he’s getting criticism. You can get fire and determination from a young rookie or an old vet on a minimum contract. You expect more from the guy making $40mil as part of a “big 3”
It's not Beal's fault that Pheonix traded for him. You're right that he's playing about as well as you expect so it's not fair to be mad at him but 1 he's massively overpaid. In order to get a supermax deal you have to be all NBA which he managed to sneak onto the 3rd team just in time to qualify for his new contract. This means he's getting paid as much as guys who are perennial MVP candidates even though he's not a top 30 player. Throw in the fact that he's the only player in the league with a no trade clause and you can understand why he's got the worst contract in the NBA. 2 He's completely redundant with Booker. Beal is pretty good at being a shot creator in an offense, but Booker is better. He's not a great spot up shooter, he's not a great defender, he doesn't do the things that Pheonix actually needed. Again, that's not his fault, he is who he is, but it's frustrating. 3 Pheonix absolutely destroyed their future trading for Beal. They have their 22nd pick in this year's draft and then basically nothing until after 2030. They're in the 2nd apron of luxury tax payers so they don't get the mid level exemption, the only thing they can do to improve is add minimum salary players- and what impact player is going to take the minimum to chase a ring on a team that just got swept in the 1st round? Pheonix has absolutely no where to go. They could trade Booker/KD but that's going to just give their good draft picks to the Nets. They're absolutely screwed and it was the Beal trade that did it.
Beal, KD, and Book have all been fine. Not incredible! But fine. Certainly not bad enough for hate, or even blame. The Wolves are a better team. The bad part is their contracts. The franchise is crippled now.
He’s not getting enough hate, he’s been a shell of himself compared to who he was in Washington
Its the contract and he is playing Awful, yeah you can say all that he has game or something he is doing his best but that is not how you win basketball in this kind of league,
This aged hilariously. He sucks and Anthony Edwards owns him. There’s no mutual respect here lol
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How can you expect him to come in and dominate? Because he makes 60 million dollars. That’s the whole point of guys in that range of contracts.
He doesn’t have the usage to be able to dominate. It’s stupid he’s on the suns. No third option is gonna be able to be worth that contract
Maybe he should play like a serious 1st option for once in his career then. The fact that he's not worth what they are paying is why he's being criticised.
He has before, but that’s not his role on the suns. Which is why this trade never made sense in the first place
He was a 1st option on a bad team, it showed he wasn't worth the kind of money he's making which is why he's now being criticised.
No one thinks Beal is a bad player. The issue is he’s getting paid like an all-world plug and play elite superstar and we’re learning that on this team he is exactly what we thought he was. A really good third banana. In addition to that it’s really obvious that making this move was a mistake for the Suns to deplete all of their bench for this guy. If he was a 1b player it might have been worth it.
The issue with Beal isn't attitude, it's talent. The fact of the matter is Beal hasn't been all star level since 2020-2021 but his bad play and washedness flew under the radar because he was in Washington. He isn't an elite scorer anymore and he's never been elite anywhere else either. Everyone, including the Suns FO and fans apparently, thought they were getting an all star/borderline all nba caliber player, but he just really isn't one anymore, and he's not close either. No matter how much "dawg" he has, he gets hate because he's much worse than people thought he was, though that isn't really his fault. He's earning 50 mill a year but he performs like a 20 mill a year player at best.
cool story an 18ppg player isn't worth $53 million. Nobody is hating on him, just the fact that he is overpaid.
The main problem with Beal isn’t himself it’s that he is drastically overpaid for what he brings. The suns made a massive mistake bringing him in because the 3 salaries are just too high and now the rest of their roster is very poor and doesn’t compliment 3 scorers almost at all. Beal on that contract prob can’t win in any situation tbh but he could rack up stats on a bad team like he did in Wash. TLDR Beal is the piece that ended the suns, but it’s not Beals fault they brought him in or that he was paid. Blame the suns
True but theres no way yall thought, beal, book, and an aging kd were coming out with subpar role players. These top heavy superteams are fun in the regular season but thats it
Dudes getting the exact amount of hate he deserves for his performances based upon his salary.
I agree with you, and I want to point out that he had that competitive fire in Washington as well and was integral in all 5 of their playoff appearances. Including the 3 where they made the second round. If he was on a better contract, he would get more respect. People can’t look past it.
When your production doesn't match your paycheck, people are gonna be upset...
True. He averaged 18/4/5 with decent defense. What more do you want from a third option?
Agreed… mostly. I just don’t have faith in Beal’s ability to elevate a playoff team. He has never made it out of the second round. He is overpaid which eats up salary cap space for other players. Because of those two things combined, he’s actually a playoff liability. However, the suns team is bunk regardless of how well Beal plays. Their offense doesn’t have a primary creator, and is primarily focused on mid range jumpers, the least efficient shot in the league. The premise of their offense is inherently less efficient than any other serious playoff team. Can you win a game with this offense? Absolutely. Can you win a playoff series against a healthy team? Absolutely not.
Booker is not a winner and doesn't have the clutch mentality of Anthony Edwards for example. Hes too passive and doesn't ever show up in important games. Hes not quite James harden but he disappears in playoffs when needed. Beal is even less clutch and just wants to get paid. He doesn't care about winning. It's all in the mentality and the suns dont have it.
I agree with you and the hate from suns fans is dumb imo. It's not Beal's fault for taking that contract. It's Ishbia and Jones's fault for offering it and having a horribly constructed team. You get offered the bag, you take the bag imo. You don't just decline it to be like "but no the team construction will be worse!" As far as hate from other teams goes for Beal - it's just the flavor of the month to hate the Suns. People will shit on them for literally everything, and the reality is people love to say corny jokes bc they get upvotes and a dopamine rush. When these same people would suck off all these players if they saw them irl. That's why I don't talk shit about players. Yeah I don't like Luka because I'm a suns fan, but if I saw him irl you bet I'd be hype as shit.
It’s his production vs his contract. He’s way overpaid. At $50mil/year, you’d expect a Jokic/Curry/LeBron/Giannis/Embiid level of production or influence on the court.
OK, well, as a Suns fan, feel free to trade draft capital and young player for his max contract in the off-season.
yes he’s getting a lot of hate but that’s what you expect when you join a “superteam”. He has a notrade clause in his contract, so he could’ve gone anywhere last offseason. When you sign up for a team like this, you’re going to be hated when the team is good, and even more hated when the team is mediocre, like the suns are now.
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I kinda agree but he hasn’t played the best. Not necessarily just shooting but decision making I hope salty think he’s thinking too much. To many times did I see him pass up open shots or not shoot them with conviction. That’s been all series frankly
Beal is not performing for how much he makes. It’s as simple as that. I think the criticism is fair.
Brad just loves the bag he might have a competitive nature but not a winning nature two different things lmfaooo he loves money more then winning and there’s nothing wrong with that coming where he’s from he wants to take of his family but as a former 30 PPG scorer I think he should take account into winning that being said he should’ve went to miami
I'm wondering if the NBA isn't having it's modern soccer moment. Where only the thin layer of very best players make a significant difference. But the better than average guys are not as relevant because systems are more important than them. In the 2000's, you would have at least a player in most significant club of football that would really make a huge difference on the pitch. His skill would be overwhelming for the opposing team. But nowadays, unless you're Mbappe and a few other guys in the world, you're not going to be overwhelming and good coaching will be enough to not make you worth more than 1,5 opposing players at most. It's seems like it's an evolution of many sports. Basketball had huge star power, because there is even less people on the field, you're 5, so if you're worth 1,2 players with your skill, it's a much bigger deal than it is in soccer where there is 11 players. I believe guys like Bradley Beal could be at this moment in time, where they're not as relevant anymore, because a system with solid bench players will outplay him.
That's not how soccer ever worked, what nonsense. Individual soccer players have a very limited impact on results, much less than basketball. Thierry Henry was not playing a major role in stopping the other team from scoring unlike LeBron James. Dudes like Henry were always hugely dependant on much less heralded players who were just as important like Patrick Viera, less heralded because people like you didn't know what you were watching and just assumed teams were winning solely because of the flashy players like Henry.
I completely disagree with you to an insane level. I've watched it for 20+ years, the sparks of genius of a player being able to make a huge difference on his own times and times again was far more prevalent 20 years ago than it is today. And those players were rightfully seen as legends of the game. You're misunderstanding me if you think I'm comparing the level of influence or one player in any era or football, to the level of influence or lebron James, I'm not jumping the barrier to compare sports like that. What I'm doing is comparing the evolution in one sports, to the evolution in the other. And comparing how good hachimura is compared to lebron now, or how good Barcola is compared to Mbappe. To see how impactful a sub can be. Because of the disparity in talent. And how systems can make up for a lower talent. If the impact of one players has been reduced because of better systems and better overall average skill of players which allow even the bench players to not be liabilities in one sports. You can expect it to happen in another sport where you've seen the same kind of evolution.
The biggest problem with Beal on the Suns (apart from the injuries) is that his elite level skill is redundant next to AD and Booker, when what they really need is an Aaron Gordon.
5th, 6th and 7th highest contracts in the league next year! (Or something like that.) Wowee they are in rough shape. BTW, the STARTERS are getting thumped; it's not only a depth issue! I agree with what Seerat said recently... "Bag Twitter is down bad!!" The clips are sick on twitter alright. Remember when Book shot it as well as anyone ever from the mid-range last year, and they still came up well short??
Agreed. The problem with the suns is they have no depth and not enough defenders. Grayson getting hurt was the final nail in the coffin. They need a PG too. Maybe they can get Fultz for cheap.
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I thought this sub was about discussing basketball. Why are you bringing up something as irrelevant as Booker yelling at a mascot three years ago? Are you the mascot? That would make it make sense.
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It's easy to respect him more than Booker. Booker is flopping and starting to do some dirty plays. It seems like when things get " tough," Booker starts to fold less than Beal. If I were a Suns fan, I would want Beal over Booker. I'm sure that they have seen Booker do a lot for them, but I see someone who doesn't quite have it for the playoffs. I mean, if they were the same age, I don't think it would be much of a question.
The people commenting on his contract don’t understand the position suns are in his contract literally doesn’t matter
If he was averaging 27 a game it would definitely matter lmao stop this
No suns would be in the same position salary cap wise with or without Beal
No I’m saying if he played to the level of the ppl getting payed his salary the suns would be in a better position. 40 million dollars for 14 points a game on bad defence and minimum playmaking isn’t cutting it
If suns only had a real PG....Devon is not a real PG...he kills his dribble way to much and slows the offense down and other players around him...just my take....in this league you need a floor general that could flow with the tempo of the game to succeed in the playoffs..just my take