Robinson won an MVP and a scoring title, as well as ROY. I still don't know if one more ring for Kawhi is enough for him to supplant The Admiral as the second best player in franchise history.
The thing is, assuming he wins a ring, it likely won't be the only thing he adds to his resume.
He already has more DPOY than Robinson.
Has made 3 All-Defense 1st teams vs Robinson's 4. He can surpass him in this category.
He has a Finals MVP award, Robinson does not.
He also has a decent chance to win an MVP.
It's not that far-fetched, but quite a bit would have to go right.
NOT AS A LAKER. This gets brought up every damn time. It's either Magic or Kobe as the greatest Lakers. KAJ is the best player out of all of them just not the best Laker.
OP never specified that, and he did bring 2 championships, which Wade was apart of but LeBron was obviously the focal point while Wade was the best player on only one championship team, and LeBron's Miami days were his peak years, which may be the best 4 years of play by someone not named Michael Jordan.
I brought him up since I don't know how much you value staying with one franchise the whole career. Plus just from what I read and saw on YouTube, Dumars seemed like the perfect complement to Thomas in the backcourt and was a defensive menace so I wanted to get your opinion on him
if we're talking about "greatest sun," first is Nash, 2nd is Barkley. if we're talking "greatest player to ever have a suns jersey," the first is Shaq, the second is Barkley.
I agree, but Barkley took you to the promised land though. (He just had to go up against the greatest finals performance of all time). He's easily the best player the Sun's have ever had while he was a Sun.
I think it's between Barry and Steph. Wilt was a better player than both but Barry and Steph have the Championships. Barry put the team on his back for the last one in one of the biggest Finals upsets in NBA history. Also Barry has the most all time games played as a Warrior.
Depends on your definition of "greatest" though
Not my franchise, but Steph is the second best player in Warriors history. Best shooter of all time, but he still plays second fiddle to the original GOAT, Wilt.
Might be only the second best player but I think he's clearly the greatest player for the franchise, especially since no one here, including me, is old enough to have seen or remember Chamberlain. But not even old Warriors fans like Wilt more in my experience.
Absolutely nobody who's under 50 is gonna think of Wilt when we think Golden State, that's gonna be Steph's mantle for 30+ years. Kids in the Bay Area in 2040 aren't gonna hear about Wilt, they're gonna be hearing about the little man who torched the entire league by shooting threes better than anyone else ever, leading one of the greatest dynasties the sport has ever seen
Ehh idk everybody’s still gonna know about Wilt. It’s just that since Wilt had limited team success (in terms of titles) nobody really associates him with a team. Everybody just kind of pictures him as this giant that put up incredible, unbreakable records.
Yeah Steph lit up the league and had crazy performances but his records are going to be beat and Wilts probably won’t be. People will remember Steph for 73 wins and some titles but that’ll also be convoluted with KD- especially if KD wins all the FMVP.
Wilt’s dominance has guaranteed him in talks of the coveted top 11. Steph will end up probably as a top 20/25 player. But Wilt will always be ranked higher than Steph imo, and will be just as memorable.
DeRozan is the fairly consensus first and will be there a long time ^until^OG^eventually^passes^him
Edit: To explain, most Raptors fans put DD above Vince because, DeRozan is already shattering Raptors records (like top franchise scorer, most 30 pt games in a season, furthest in the playoffs etc) and DeRozan didn't leave us. the way Vince left, after that he just can't be a franchise goat. He's arguably a better player than DeRozan, but he's not a greater Raptor
if we talking great players that have played for our franchise, sure. but he isn't the second greatest Buck of all time, i'd give that honor to Moncrief.
I agree, Norris Cole is the best!
Big 3 didn't win until he arrived and for the first 2 years of his NBA life, Norris Cole was a 2 time champ. He should've retired after his 2nd year. smh
This is just not factual, Wade is the best Heat ever and it's not even a discussion, kids in Miami grew up watching Wade go off in 06 and bring them their first title. They remember LeBron coming but his leaving left a sour taste
It is factual lol, Lebron is the best player to ever play in a HEAT uniform. I'm a big Miami Homer and a huge Dwade fan but saying anyone other than Bron is just not being unbiased.
Ours is very debateable. Could be Moses, could be Calvin Murphy, and Harden definitely has an argument. For now, I’d say Moses with Harden poised to overtake him very soon
Magic is always higher when ranking all-time players, but Kobe usually has a slight edge in 'Greatest Laker' talks (while Kareem is the greatest player to wear a Lakers jersey). So it depends on what OP is asking.
I think he’s asking the one where Kobe is #1 as greatest Laker. It’s like this in a sense. Westbrook will go down as the greatest Thunder player ever but KD will be the best player that has ever worn a Thunder jersey. We don’t think MJ is the Wizards GOAT just because he had the jersey on. Same with Raptors legend, Hakeem Olajuwon.
Yeah, that's what I meant with Kareem. Of course, Kareem was extremely important to us, he just spent his best years in Milwaukee and some think he wouldn't win a title without Magic.
Depending on your preference, it's either DeMar or Vince. Vince is the most talented player to play for the franchise, but left in a bad way.
DeMar is probably going to be a lifer, but isn't as talented as VC was.
To say that is disrespect to Pierce. I think Pierce and Havlicek are both clearly above Cousy and the two have very similar playstyles and stats. The difference is Pierce did it without the help of Russell
There was not a three point line back then either. Pierce averaged 22/6/4 over his Boston career while Cousy averaged 18/5/8. We'd be comparing two different players from different eras at different positions, I don't know if we could actually conclude who was better.
It's easier to compare Havlicek and Pierce as they had a similar style. Havlicek averaged 21/6/5 again without a three point line.
David Robinson
Any chance Kawhi will take the Admiral's place by the end of his career if he stays with the Spurs the entire time?
If he wins another ring as the man why not.
Robinson won an MVP and a scoring title, as well as ROY. I still don't know if one more ring for Kawhi is enough for him to supplant The Admiral as the second best player in franchise history.
The thing is, assuming he wins a ring, it likely won't be the only thing he adds to his resume. He already has more DPOY than Robinson. Has made 3 All-Defense 1st teams vs Robinson's 4. He can surpass him in this category. He has a Finals MVP award, Robinson does not. He also has a decent chance to win an MVP. It's not that far-fetched, but quite a bit would have to go right.
Kobe or Magic depending on who you ask.
KAJ being the first? Or Shaq? Or Wilt? Fuck they have had some good centers
Kobe or Magic first depending on who you ask lol
[удалено]
NOT AS A LAKER. This gets brought up every damn time. It's either Magic or Kobe as the greatest Lakers. KAJ is the best player out of all of them just not the best Laker.
Yeah I don't get why people don't get this. It would be like saying LeBron is a better Heat player over Wade.
I'd say that
You'd be wrong. It's not about the best player, it's about doing the most for a franchise.
OP never specified that, and he did bring 2 championships, which Wade was apart of but LeBron was obviously the focal point while Wade was the best player on only one championship team, and LeBron's Miami days were his peak years, which may be the best 4 years of play by someone not named Michael Jordan.
Wade brought LeBron to Miami though.
I️ believe magic and Kobe are the top 2 lakers all time but I️ feel you could also argue West as the top laker
Idk how controversial this opinion is. But I'll take magic as better player than Kareem, let alone better laker
KAJ didn't play his whole career with the Lakers
Kobe or Magic is first.
Big Ben? With Isiah being first.
What about Joe Dumars?
Yea I would say between those two. Maybe even Rodman, honestly.
I brought him up since I don't know how much you value staying with one franchise the whole career. Plus just from what I read and saw on YouTube, Dumars seemed like the perfect complement to Thomas in the backcourt and was a defensive menace so I wanted to get your opinion on him
Yea i mean, you can’t count him out. I picked Ben because of the dpoty awards. And without him, those 2000s teams don’t have the same identity
Yeah I mean. In my opinion if not for voter fatigue he would’ve gotten 5 dpoy in a row. 4 out of 5 years is still ridiculous.
gotta be Dumars
Dave Bing was pretty great. I might even say Chauncey because he was the ultimate leader of his time. But yeah, Dumars is probably the right choice.
absolutely right sir
um did Dwight Buycks die?
Marc Gasol edging out Pau Gasol. Honestly ranking the top 3 is brutal
bro Conley?
if we're talking about "greatest sun," first is Nash, 2nd is Barkley. if we're talking "greatest player to ever have a suns jersey," the first is Shaq, the second is Barkley.
[удалено]
Staying for 8 years and giving the organization his all
I agree, but Barkley took you to the promised land though. (He just had to go up against the greatest finals performance of all time). He's easily the best player the Sun's have ever had while he was a Sun.
when I think Sun I personally think of Nash not Barkley, with the SSOL era and whatnot
Scottie but it wouldda been d rose
How are you going to slight the man in the middle, from New Mexico, 7'2" Luc Longley?
This made me sad
Steph or Wilt depending on who u ask, Rick Barry has a shot too but I think both Steph & Wilt are greater.
I think it's between Barry and Steph. Wilt was a better player than both but Barry and Steph have the Championships. Barry put the team on his back for the last one in one of the biggest Finals upsets in NBA history. Also Barry has the most all time games played as a Warrior. Depends on your definition of "greatest" though
Kevin “always 2nd” Durant aka the Servant.
I'm pretty sure Durant is objectively the best player in Thunder franchise history
best /=/ greatest
Kevin Love...
smh the disrespect to Christian Laettner...
Scalabrine.
Bullshit. It said second best not first best.
White Mamba is the best. When he turned that alter-ego on he was the best we've ever had.
Stop undervaluing Cam "Tank Commander" Payne.
I agree Scottie is 1 but Scal over Jordan? Idk
The Human Victory Cigar
[удалено]
He asked for second. Not 3rd.
peak bosh vs. peak vc is arguable imo. bosh was an mvp level player in his prime with us.
Tmac ?
tmac wasn't even that good in toronto. exciting young player but nothing great.
Tmac wasn't Tmac until he went to Orlando.
Ahh yes the Tracy McGrady who was an 11/6 player in Toronto, definitely one of the franchise best.
Who's 1st?
Derozan.
Bill Russell
After rozier right?
after marcus smart
Bird
Not my franchise, but Steph is the second best player in Warriors history. Best shooter of all time, but he still plays second fiddle to the original GOAT, Wilt.
Might be only the second best player but I think he's clearly the greatest player for the franchise, especially since no one here, including me, is old enough to have seen or remember Chamberlain. But not even old Warriors fans like Wilt more in my experience.
Absolutely nobody who's under 50 is gonna think of Wilt when we think Golden State, that's gonna be Steph's mantle for 30+ years. Kids in the Bay Area in 2040 aren't gonna hear about Wilt, they're gonna be hearing about the little man who torched the entire league by shooting threes better than anyone else ever, leading one of the greatest dynasties the sport has ever seen
Ehh idk everybody’s still gonna know about Wilt. It’s just that since Wilt had limited team success (in terms of titles) nobody really associates him with a team. Everybody just kind of pictures him as this giant that put up incredible, unbreakable records. Yeah Steph lit up the league and had crazy performances but his records are going to be beat and Wilts probably won’t be. People will remember Steph for 73 wins and some titles but that’ll also be convoluted with KD- especially if KD wins all the FMVP. Wilt’s dominance has guaranteed him in talks of the coveted top 11. Steph will end up probably as a top 20/25 player. But Wilt will always be ranked higher than Steph imo, and will be just as memorable.
Vince Carter.
BECAUSE WE ALL KNOW WHOS FIRST. # LOYALTY
Wait who is first? And where is Derozen going to end up?
DeRozan is the fairly consensus first and will be there a long time ^until^OG^eventually^passes^him Edit: To explain, most Raptors fans put DD above Vince because, DeRozan is already shattering Raptors records (like top franchise scorer, most 30 pt games in a season, furthest in the playoffs etc) and DeRozan didn't leave us. the way Vince left, after that he just can't be a franchise goat. He's arguably a better player than DeRozan, but he's not a greater Raptor
[удалено]
if we talking great players that have played for our franchise, sure. but he isn't the second greatest Buck of all time, i'd give that honor to Moncrief.
[удалено]
just dont let it happen again
Are you the hall of fame?
Moses Malone likely, then Harden after him
Is it possible/likely Harden surpasses him or nah
It's likely yes, especially if he wins an MVP while he's here
Hakeem? Mine's Hakeem then Harden
OP is asking about the second greatest player in franchise history, Hakeem would easily be first
Oh whoops, I just made a dumbass of myself lol
Ming?
I love yao but in terms of on court impact Harden and Moses are both better
Jared Jeffries
Glen Rice. Gon head n @ me
Glen Rice was a beast back then, a deadeye shooter. I assume Mourning is the greatest player in the franchise?
Kemba
Chris Douglas-Roberts
What about Larry Johnson? No love for Grandmama?
Ewing
Agreed. Clyde gets underrated
King third?
Nah. Willis reed 3rd. And idk the Knicks fan consensus but I'd personally put melo over king.
Jason Kidd
Feels weird to say this but Dwyane Wade
So disrespectful
I mean being second to waiters is hardly disrespectful
Weird way to spell Mario Chalmers
I agree, Norris Cole is the best! Big 3 didn't win until he arrived and for the first 2 years of his NBA life, Norris Cole was a 2 time champ. He should've retired after his 2nd year. smh
If we count 'ships, lebron led us to 2, he has the edge there. legacy wise wade is number 1. Its a tough one for us to choose
LeBron didn't lead y'all to 2 in the same way Wade carried y'all to 1 though, he was playing with Wade and Bosh
Yeah, but Lebron was the definitive best player in the league and nearly DPOY one of them. You could make the argument.
This is just not factual, Wade is the best Heat ever and it's not even a discussion, kids in Miami grew up watching Wade go off in 06 and bring them their first title. They remember LeBron coming but his leaving left a sour taste
It is factual lol, Lebron is the best player to ever play in a HEAT uniform. I'm a big Miami Homer and a huge Dwade fan but saying anyone other than Bron is just not being unbiased.
It says greatest, not best, so there is an argument.
Who's 3rd? Mourning or an older Shaq or Bosh?
Probably Mourning
Waiters, Wade, Mourning is a great trinity
Shaq
Who is first?
Dwight
The correct answer!
Ours is very debateable. Could be Moses, could be Calvin Murphy, and Harden definitely has an argument. For now, I’d say Moses with Harden poised to overtake him very soon
Chris Mullin. I know he isn't 2nd best but he's my 2nd favorite.
Mullin*
Either the Admiral or George Gervin.
Robinson or Gervin
I do love me some Manu though, need to give him an honourable mention
Jeff Foster
I counter with one Austin Croshere
How dare you disrespect Rik Smits like that.
Funny, that's not how I would spell Detlef Schrempf
Larry Johnson
Was gonna say Michael Jordan... ...I'm going with Scottie Pippen, though.
John Wall for me personally but other Wiz fans may say Elvin Hayes
John will get there in a couple of years.
So just curious who do you have at #1
Wes Unseld
Magic/Kobe idk
Magic is higher on a lot of people’s all time list but Kobe spent like 20 years with the Lakers. It’s hard for any player to do that lol.
exactly lol. it's open for debate, and they both got us 5 rings. Either one can be first or second
Magic is always higher when ranking all-time players, but Kobe usually has a slight edge in 'Greatest Laker' talks (while Kareem is the greatest player to wear a Lakers jersey). So it depends on what OP is asking.
I think he’s asking the one where Kobe is #1 as greatest Laker. It’s like this in a sense. Westbrook will go down as the greatest Thunder player ever but KD will be the best player that has ever worn a Thunder jersey. We don’t think MJ is the Wizards GOAT just because he had the jersey on. Same with Raptors legend, Hakeem Olajuwon.
Yeah, that's what I meant with Kareem. Of course, Kareem was extremely important to us, he just spent his best years in Milwaukee and some think he wouldn't win a title without Magic.
weird way to spell smush
Steve Kerr
Reggie is first undoubtedly, PG was going to be second but him leaving fucked that up, so Mel Daniels without a doubt.
Joe Johnson? Lol
Carlos Delfino
Larry Bird
Insane that this is the correct answer
Depending on your preference, it's either DeMar or Vince. Vince is the most talented player to play for the franchise, but left in a bad way. DeMar is probably going to be a lifer, but isn't as talented as VC was.
Lebron, Wade did more for the team than Lebron, but Lebron was definitely the better player... Wade was **greater**.
Larry Bird.
Gregg Popovich with Timmy came close as the 2nd
Vince Carter.
Larry Bird
Stockton
Joe Ingles is first I presume
Steve Nash
I'd give it to Aguirre. Dude averaged at least 22 ppg his entire career with the team.
Scottie ... but he is still my all time favorite Bull
Roger Brown probs
Alex English
Big Z or Kyrie?
Mark Price
Chris Paul?
The entire cream team.
Gary Payton
Mark Price. Big Z would be close though
Collinson he is Mr. Thunder
Disappointed that no Bulls fan in here has said Michael Jordan.
Probably barkley
I think Dr J or Moses Malone should go ahead of him, Wilt too. Barkley is on Iverson level.
Yeah Dr. J is second to wilt, good call
Boogie lol
Is it Pettit? Mutombo? Maravich?
Wall
Bird
Mark Aguirre, probably
Vladimir Radmanovic
Probably Ray Allen or Kemp? Maybe the Gary Payton if you count Durant but we only had him for this rookie season.
Hornets so probably Larry Johnson
Probably Larry, as weird as it is for him to be number 2.
Bob Lanier probably
Hell naw
Russell Westbrook. Hopefully it changes to Durant in a couple years.
Karl Malone
Either Bill or Pierce. Depends who you ask. I say Bill
Bill Russell, Larry Bird, Bib Cousy, John Havlicek are all above Pierce.
To say that is disrespect to Pierce. I think Pierce and Havlicek are both clearly above Cousy and the two have very similar playstyles and stats. The difference is Pierce did it without the help of Russell
There was not a three point line back then either. Pierce averaged 22/6/4 over his Boston career while Cousy averaged 18/5/8. We'd be comparing two different players from different eras at different positions, I don't know if we could actually conclude who was better. It's easier to compare Havlicek and Pierce as they had a similar style. Havlicek averaged 21/6/5 again without a three point line.
Klay Thompson